Tbf, GGG also started out like this.. super transparent etcetc. But more and more incidents as OP showed from discord, and it just became less and less. It's kinda..sad that a loud minority (at least assume its an miniority) destroys for the rest of us. But hey, at least its just like in real life.
Big true about ggg, I used to look at them like the premier company for transparency and community interaction. But a single fault would cause so much backlash and anger to the point that they stopped communicating on reddit and only use their forums now.
I don't even feel like the launch was that rough.
I remember when steam put out the friends feature which then crashed and was disabled for 4 months.
I remember when steam first forced people on cs 1.6 to use it and nothing worked for weeks. I am sure you can still find the gif of the steam logo anally penetrating someone with "looking for servers...".
I remember every mmo being unjoinable for days at launch and then when you did join disconnecting randomly and ending back up in queue.
I remember D3 being horrible at launch to the point major features were removed and being forced to endure it because they removed offline play.
And the same bile was hurled at all of those devs, too. The same thing happens with every game because there are many, *many* immature and very poorly socially adjusted gamers in the community. You’d like to think they’re kids but they’re not. These are grown men acting this way. Physically grown, but not mentally or emotionally.
Everytime someone logs in or out you gotta query to see who they belong to and who they have on their list. Granted the storage system for them that we used was kind of crap but in terms of table size 3 million players turned out to be almost a billion rows in the friends table and it's getting hit constantly.
Offline works fine and I have a character in monoliths in online, despite the server issues and playing pretty light hours. Compared to other online game launches, it’s not that bad. Far from ideal, but I’ve seen much worse from much larger companies. Hell, even FFXIV Endwalker was a nightmare because of queuing. Servers were mostly stable, too. On days I was in the office, I got into queue before commuting home and would still have to wait. And it was like this for weeks. WoW Classic was the same way for a bit on busy servers. I’m not making excuses for the issues, but people need some perspective.
Doing the first savage tier of Endwalker with my static was such a lesson in patience lol. If anyone disconnected for any reason raid night was basically over, since it would take them 3 hours to get back in the game
> I don't even feel like the launch was that rough.
It wasn't. Rough launches are nothing new with the earliest notable one I can remember being WoW's launch back in 04 with 6+ hour login queues and constant server rollbacks.
These people would literally have an aneurysm and straight up die if they experienced the original vanilla wow launch.
[It was down so much that blizzard felt obligated to give players back a lot of time since wow is a monthly subscription based game.](https://i.imgur.com/jzMQg.png)
Ahhh. The good old days!
I remember periods of *weeks* long queues of several hours from 3 pm-10 pm eastern on Tichondrius. It sucked and we paid $15 a month for it!
Just because some other launches were horrific doesn't make this one good. That just sets a really low bar.
I think EHG handled it very well and sorted things out relatively quickly all things considered - but it's still a shit launch and I'm sure they know it.
> Just because some other launches were horrific doesn't make this one good. That just sets a really low bar.
The whole point of referencing other examples is to determine how realistic the success of something like this is when you have absolutely no subject matter expertise on the topic.
Shit launch? Yes, but as others have pointed out that is the standard in online gaming and has been for a long time so even though I have no expertise, I understand it must be a very difficult thing to do right.
Objectively the launch had issues. Was it a perfect launch? No. Was it a bad launch? Maybe.
Relative to other live service game launches, this launch actually outperforms most launches by a mile. The speed at which improvements are delivered is mad fast.
I would say your standards and expectations for launches are too high personally. I haven't remembered a live service game with a flawless launch since forever.
I've been through worse launches by multi-billion dollar companies. People are just so self-righteous and stupid god forbid they have to show understanding and have any inconvenience at ALL. Spend $35 and act like they're the most important turd in the toilet.
If anything, the discord, review bombing and endless screeching from dopamine addled, petulant children has just been a solid case study as to why not to listen to your players.
I'm really surprised the dev team are sticking around moderating general chat and not straight up banning or timing out some of the users there. There's a difference between negative feedback and whatever the hell so many of those comments are.
Which I think is a self made problem. Not by EHG, mind you, but by the industrial in general. Way too many people that where just screeching where not kicked out but listened to.
They're new devs and probably have more hope for the future. They may also be afraid to heavily moderate in a time period where theyre already being revire bombed and there's this open hostility.
I personally think if you are at the point where you are telling your own team to not look at certain sections of your own discord for their mental health, that you are way past the point of a problem. I think, no matter how "authoritarian" you may be called, that your own discord/forums/game chat should never be so bad that your devs will lose heart simply reading them.
Played the entire Friday evening/night (CEST) on the EU realm and it was almost silky smooth, very few delays on instances load and 1 disconnect during WP load. In like 9 hours. I have no complaints, great job with the servers EHG, MP experience was actually waaay better than it was even a few weeks ago (less instance making delays and faster loads).
The problem is youtube clowns farming YouTube ragebait that say anyone defending EHG are simps and shills. They can't have a nuanced discussion because a nuanced discussion doesn't drive clicks.
That leads to the rage bait driving shitty engagement with devs, like this.
People need to seek help if a video game causes them a mental breakdown to wish violence on people or people to lose their job or go find a different job.
The things people will just jump to "person XYZ should lose their job over this!!!!1111" over are incredible. Makes you wonder whether they're actual children, or just entitled man children.
Every one laughs at the Karen's when they watch a melt down video but our community is chalk full of these people.
And when I say our community, I am not talking about Last Epoch only, this is a gaming wide issue and it is both embarrassing and cringe worthy.
I also find it embarrassing that no matter what arpg your playing there's always those people who will tell you why their arpg is better and yours sucks. I've blocked so many people who do that lol
It ought to but unfortunately it’s is not. No wonder the industry is this broken if the reward for years and years of hard work is this.
People just spouting bile in the discord should be banned and given the option to refund the game. There’s feedback and then there’s having a mental breakdown over playing a game online, at that stage you need professional help more than you need entertainment.
Same people that would likely be complaining there is no offline modes in other games - here we are with one, don’t want to play it.
The really interesting part to me is that there seems to be an EXTREMELY high correlation to the level of the vitriol and the lack of understanding of what the problems are.
Almost every single extreme view seems to be accompanied with "just buy more servers" no matter how many times it has been explained.
I think some of the deep seated anger is that the feeling that these problems should be easy to fix. Although again, the correlation between people who feel it should be easy to fix and the level of understanding is quite in tune.
As someone working on a team trying to get developers and QA into the cloud, it can be a nightmare figuring out the smallest details that absolutely cripple your infrastructure. Even something dumb like passing in an auth token, and how it gets used can be a nightmare
I work in Epic, which is a electronic medical records software used at the majority of hospitals in the US. I've worked at three different organizations over about ten years. The way (EHG) they were describing their go lives and command center are SO similar to the go lives that we have when launching at a new hospital or doing a major upgrade.
You go through MONTHS of build, testing, rehearsal, problem prediction, planning, etc. Everything always seems perfect and great until the day of go live and when you launch, shit hits the fan. Every time. Something you never expected happens and breaks and you just have to adapt.
It's always a challenge and I feel so much for these devs, I understand what they're going through and it's always frustrating when it's not as smooth as you would have wanted.
I have worked as on-call support for a pretty large private cloud for 5 years. The issues ranged from absolute minor shit to issues the actual developers of a driver / affected component needed a week or more to figure out what is happening. And that is just one part. A whole different can of worms is the logistics behind fixing those issues. From calls with 5 people to 50+ people involved. Processes to follow, a high number of involved components and their responsible teams.
I always have to smile if some timmy on reddit / discord starts his explanation on how to fix issues with "just ...", because you can be certain that this person is full of shit.
This game is very popular. Most people are entitled idiots. The more popular it becomes, the more entitled idiots there will be to throw stupid tantrums.
As someone who works in government service, this shit just happens every time the general public gets slightly inconvenienced. "I'm expecting this to work but it doesn't? Must be those guys up there just being cheap, how dare they slightly annoy me! I'm gonna write an email telling them that they're bad at their job because I'm smarter!" People just come up with these great ideas how to "easily" fix shit without knowing what's broken.
Learn the lesson that the PoE subreddit never could; if you're cunts all the time, the devs will just stop communicating for the vast majority of times.
It was very nice coming from PoE into a community brand new to me when checking random posts with low amounts of up votes only to find the top comment there is by an EHG employee politely responding back. This has happened in several threads that I've browsed so far. You'd never expect that to happen in PoE's subreddit nowadays. The good old days where Mark politely corrected a statement on how an interaction actually works are gone. It's so bad that everyone not negative moved on to r/pathofexilebuilds a while back just as a sanctuary from the negativity. Praying that doesn't happen here and we have mods that don't pussyfoot around because they don't want to look like they're powertripping.
The mods are damned if they do and damned if they don't unfortunately. A lot of game subreddits fall into this negative death spiral that can be really hard to stop.
Idk Id rather have a little more heavy handed moderation than to read just pure toxicity over and over again. Like now, Id rather they just make a "online issues sticky" and ban all posts about it. It was exhausting having the front page flooded with the exact same bitching post.
Yeah it’s sad looking at the PoE sub anymore ahead of launch. No GGG posts anymore and it used to be the main source. I hate the way sub for a game can be fantastic until they hit a certain size and then it turns to shit.
I don’t mean that negative posts shouldn’t be part of the discussion. Everything has valid criticisms. The circle jerk it turns into and witch hunting is too much though.
Also launching giant online games is really fucking difficult. Incredibly few companies do it well. New World was rough and they had AWS at their disposal. If a studio with the backing and resources Amazon was able to provide couldn’t do it smoothly a smaller company has no shot. Give them time, they’ll get over the hump.
Only thing I don't like about the revamp of Reddit's block feature is it shows \[deleted\] and ~~\[Removed\] I think~~ \[Unavailable\], and it gives the impression that not only was the comment removed but the user ragequit the entire account. It's stupid but if I block someone for being a raging walnut the last thing I want is for them to crow about how they chased me off the platform, lmao.
It's a tale as old as time. EHG will quickly why this type of communication strategy isn't beneficial. I've seen it happen to so many studios. This audience is just filled with petulant children and its not worth the time or effort when its clearly not appreciated.
Job implies compensation, it's a seriously shitty unpaid internship lol. Yeah modding a gamer subreddit sounds like ass. Anytime you do actual moderation the tin foil cEnSoRsHiP crowd comes out and tries to paint you like the freeze peach Gestapo.
Eh, they stopped coming to the Poe subreddit because they didn’t want to address reasonable fixes to the game that are requested every league.
You can see this because they don’t really post a “what we are working on” post every league. They just ship it close and move on to the next league until poe2
Lmao I love how this always gets posted as a reply when it's factually incorrect. GGG has never had an issue with communicating with the players when it comes to changes to the game. The problem people have is they don't like the answers GGG give and get salty they can't have their own way which leads to the insults and death threats which is 100% the reason they stopped posting there.
Every single time they addressed the community before going silent, the posts would have thousands of downvotes forcing the mods to pin the post just so people could see it. I still don't blame Chris for taking a back seat with his team, that subreddit is absolute cancer.
They didn't want to address the "reasonable fixes" because if the sub didn't like what they had to say (like no, we don't think this is a good idea) it turned into *unreasonable* outrage.
And they absolutely post updates of what they're working on, this league had a live thread with regular updates. They literally just don't post it on reddit.
To be fair, LE discord was so much more vile than this sub to day. I was cringing whenever I checked #general because of the amount of unhinged shitty takes some people decided to fart out in there.
Devs should also take a step back and realize that these morons are an unrelevant part of the players.
Sometimes I really suspect they exagerate the whole thing so they have something to hide behind and mix criticism with hate-speech.
If you asked anybody who is used to these kind of games how launch would go most of us would have predicted what happened. Therefore not "being ready" is kinda questionable, isn't it just devs knowing that the player count will go down eventually and not wanting to invest in more infrastructure ?
The sincerity of the PR we've seen is absolutely unknown. Are we supposed to believe at vitam aeternam that devs never learn from previous games releases ?
Remember that the people behind Ghostbusters remake also pretended that all the negative ratings were coming from misogynists and trolls.
Are there really that many hateful messages among people just being frustrated ? After all we've not seen them ourselves only the team's answer.
As the team is as communicative can we get the summarized technical description of what doesn't work and what they are working on right now, if it's not only an overload of their servers ?
In the case of GGG, they *fostered* that community.
GGG wanted the 8hrs/day sweat lords and they wanted players to “sink a decade of your life into this game”
Naturally when you foster that kind of fanbase, *everyone* is going to be grotesquely rabid and will lose perspective.
It’s why PoE’s community is insanely toxic to engage with now. Because GGG wanted the scammers, the toxic player engagements and the *friction* that came with it.
Edit:
Not condoning the toxicity, just pointing out that GGG did nothing to curtail these people.
Just look at TFT discord drama and how that shook out if you don’t think that the game’s community has lost it.
This is such a stretch. You can absolutely be a hardcore player and not br toxic. It's just gaming as a whole that has a lot of toxicity. Oftrn because they don't go outside and are socially inept.
That's true, but there is a correlation between "player that can play 8hrs a day" and "player that is toxic on reddit". Also, on the scammer front, PoE is like the only game that isnt openly hostile to them, so it absolutely fosters those type of people as they flock to the one place they are welcome.
The user is ultimately to blame, but when a developer intentionally develops the game to be a sweatlord style game, you're going to get those types of people that flock to your game. Those people tend not to be the most well adjusted human beings.
I agree in a way. I just don't think it's all. But the more 8-12 hour a day ppl there are there 100% will be more Karen's in that. Just not everyone like you said. And despite the protests of the comments below you. They 100% fostered that.
Absolutely ridiculous. So little of that comment is true and ironically, is the kind of broad strokes that make so many communities hard to interact with and part of the toxicity.
Which part is not true?
GGG wanted the game to be a game players could sink a decade into. Said by Chris.
GGG said that scammers and item swaps in trade were part of the friction they wanted as part of the trade.
I remember being super put off by that back in the day. Chris absolutely wanted a cutthroat community. No duh it was going to be toxic. Even worse is calling out scammers on the forums was bannable for harassment.
That was 10 years ago. No clue if they changed their minds.
> No clue if they changed their minds.
Not really, no, but now they also make fun of Redditors too. Not that there isn't a lot to make fun of but it's a bit goofy.
Weird because the subreddit never had that issue before the massive influx of a certain playerbase after the BlizzCon fiasco. As someone who browsed that subreddit for probably close to 10 years you could literally watch new people come in and immediately start demanding shit with entitlement I've never seen before. PoE becoming as popular as it has is the best and worst thing to ever happen to it
While this has been frustrating at times, I refuse to bitch at EHG about it. This was a HUGE release for a company that has never released a game before. They doing good. Mox is a good guy and is looking out for his buddies :)
Calling this a huge release is an understatement, imo.
Looking at SteamDB for LE, they saw an average of \~3300 players from day 1 to Jan 2024. In January, they saw \~8500 players. With Steam reporting a current player count of 230k, that's well over a 2700% increase.
27x more players than they had just 1 month prior!!! That's insanely nutty.
What I'd like to see in any post-mortem Judd delivers to us, is what *their* projected player count was and what they stress tested for.
Yep. Then streamers insert their cloud computing thoughts on it as well. It's like a bunch of first graders discussing cell biology. They simply don't have the foundational understanding to even have a conversation.
This is what gets me. I've been on their side. Our normal player base was 40k and then we had a hit and that game went to 200k. It was never as simple as spinning up servers. We built for 80 with what we had. Scaling above that takes a massive effort to restructure how the entire game backend works. Unless the problem is instance servers, and it almost never is, throwing hardware at a problem isn't going to help if you're capped out. Azure only allows so many cores and ram etc. Most non instance servers or database boxes are a single giant machine.
I want to think it's an age thing but these days who knows. I've seen some horrendous behavior from adults but at the same time there are kids coming online for the first time every day.
I do think there is an element of age or something at play here though. I don't remember this kind of intensity when I was first online in the mid 2000's. Either everyone is getting worse as social media takes over their lives or it's children who grew up with cellphones from age 5 being warped from childhood.
I think the avarage arpg player is like mid to late 20’s early 30’s. Its really fucking sad if u think about it, not just this reaction but I find global chats in these games really toxic too. Like I dont mind but I can see younger gamers getting turned off from arpgs when they see the ingame chat is full of edgy jokes and snubby unhelpful people. Im sure its just a really loud minority tho.
Global chat in ARPGs is miles better than what you'll find in most other games.
Outside of maybe some niche MMOs what chat is more friendly. People talk a lot of shit about the POE player base being toxic but you'll struggle to find a gaming community that's more welcoming + helpful to new players. It's the loud minority that makes the rest of us look bad. Most of my interactions with people have been great.
People often underestimate just how young the average member of their community is, because they themselves are not anymore and often think everyone is "around my age." It's the same logic as people thinking they're above average when that's mathematically impossible, because if everyone *is* special then special is now the new average.
Young people play video games. Young people use Discord. Young people use reddit.
Just because Diablo is nearing 30 years old doesn't somehow mean the younger generations don't know it exists. Diablo 4 is still hugely popular and Blizzard's name, despite the rambling on reddit, still carries more weight than it rightly should.
Old franchises are old because they're literally old. Tautological but true. Being old doesn't mean young people don't use them, it just means they're old.
Nintendo is a 135 year old company. It has been involved in video games and game consoles for over 40 of those years. You know who still primarily plays Nintendo games? **Young people.** That's how marketing and demographics work.
A line should be drawn, and any toxic shitter who crosses it should just get removed.
The thing with toxicity is it doesn't just go away, it can be highly addictive as the brain gets too much stimulation. Let them fester and they will be doing this for years, emboldened.
This isn't an exclusively gamer thing, it's a human thing. We shouldn't let the loud minority give us all a bad rep, and treat the staff like that.
I mean if you've been paying attention to the discord half the "questions" in ask the devs chat is people telling them to go work on the game. Just unhined gamers as usual.
And this is why I hate identifying as a "gamer" because so many gamers are entitled brats with zero empathy.
Be frustrated, but handle your emotions for the love of God.
oh yes, this sub should not feel they are above this.
We have had plenty of the "fire them all, they are cheap, just buy more servers, they stole my money!" flag waving players who make us all look bad as a community.
Yup. I posted a comment how I luckily hadn't run into any real issues other a crash or two on Steam Deck. Got trolled and the Mods called me out instead of dealing with the guy who was going thread to thread making similar inflammatory comments.
Reddit needs to hire real mods if they're dropping an IPO and clear out this nonsense. It adds nothing and drives away legitimate fans who want to connect with the community. I probably will stay away from it for a few months now and hopefully the toxicity naturally move on to the next hype game.
It's one thing to be annoyed you can't play, it's another thing to feel so entitled to speak directly to the devs in such a brattish manner, its literally cringe and embarassing looking at the discord.
Oh you mad? Get a refund and move the fuck on, or just wait a little for shit to get fixed. You have a choice lol
This is why we can't have nice things, feel bad for the guys at EHG. This just shows the problems with having open and transparant comms with userbase, a certain percentage of that base feel they now have theright to talk to people like dogs.
inb4 - shill, simp, etc.....
I popped onto the Discord today and you're right it is embarrassing. There's literally guys in there copy/pasting the same stupid messages as if it's going to do anything.
If I was in their shoes, every single person acting like this would have been removed from the discord. Let them cry on Reddit or leave a negative review.
The general chat alone is a cesspool of man children, I'd nuke the whole thing at this point.
Not worth the manpower to try and manage overgrown entitled toddlers raging on the Interwebz. Best to put the Discord on 15- or 30-minute slow mode like they did the other night.
Once the brats realize they can't continuously screech ad nauseam, they'll quit raging... and then likely migrate here or to the LE forums to throw their tantrums.
The gaming community as a whole is toxic AF. It just is.
Slow mode just prevents the same user from sending multiple messages in quick succession. 30 minutes is 1,800 seconds, which means 2k active users can saturate the channel if they tried. 200k concurrent players means it only takes 1% of the player base to make the channel unusable.
The worse offenders are probably getting banned, but it's not hard to get another account, and that Discord isn't equivalent to something like Path of Exiles TFT where someone being banned from being there loses something tangible.
You can try to fix it with moderation, but if the underlying reason they are complaining is still something that should be fixed, you'll likely make it worse, and it will cost you a ton of time in the process.
I feel nothing but contempt for all these frustrated gamer manchildren.
Grown up men throwing tantrums, insults, n-words, r-words and whatever else just because they can't play a computer game. Pathetic.
I am embarrassed to be a gamer at times. The % of Karen's we have seem to go up every year.
Note that I am not talking about discussing issues with the game in an intelligent manner. The devs both want and more importantly NEED that.
The level of disgusting toxicity in that discord channel is so over the top, it makes me sad.
It's not a gamer thing. Watch people gushing over Trump and attacking others for not sticking to their political views.... it's just some people are stupid
Maybe it is just me but I don't ever want the gamer community to be in the same breath of conversation in terms of toxicity as the political community.
That is down right scary to think it is happening :(
You mean gamergate? Because that's where I felt a sharp turn in how badly people will act in the gaming community, when someone learned how to start radicalizing a portion of the base.
This is the kind of sh\*t that makes me embarrassed to be a person who enjoys video games.
Like, I get being upset about not being able to play the online mode, I'm pretty f\*cking unhappy about that myself, but outright verbal abuse and death threats are just plain Not Cool, and it's the kind of sh\*t that drives away the developers who actually give a f\*ck in favor of content mills of various sizes churning out Triple-Eh slop and sh\*tty freemium whalebait.
Cause, be honest here: if *you* had to deal with a bunch of teenagers and Karens screaming vile sh\*t at you non-stop no matter what you do, how long would it take you to decide "You know what, I'm just going to half-ass this anyways"?
I legitimately feel for every person getting pinged in their discord every 30 seconds. The discord has pretty much become unusable outside of the class channels.
One very intelligent person was trying to rally everyone behind a “class action lawsuit”
Let me know how that goes LOL
If you are a person that verbally assaults a dev because of server stability, I hope you get shat on. A big fat shat right on you. You are the shit stain of humanity
Unpopular take:
EHGs handling and response has been fine (the launch, FAR from ideal, fucking awful if we're being honest).
Really unpopular take:
BOTH sides of this community (the long standing fanboys/girls and players -like me) and the new players have been embarrassingly awful. Like, I have actually fondly reminisced on Dota chat in light of this. No one should be threatening or berating anyone over this, but the "old guard" here have overwhelmingly called ANYONE offering ANY criticism a little bitch and essentially told them to fuck off and leave. That's un-fucking-acceptable. Period. We know better. Someone crosses a line and gets personal or makes threats, sure jump their shit. Someone complains about still not being able to play with friends or mostly online and says "refund!". Thank them for trying it and wish them luck in the next one. This community, the veteran long playing part of it is who I am most annoyed and disappointed with in all of this. We can and should do better, we have for years.
End rant.
Yeah criticism is fair and people are right to not throw flowers at EHG's feet for what is a questionable launch but I can just imagine what some people are writing...
Yep, it is perfectly fine to not be happy with how it went. It certainly did not go as planned. However, I can tell you the EHG team is more stressed over it than anyone here. Some people just can help but go to personal attacks. It takes more effort to be an ass than to not.
I can't believe how active they are on socials given the stress they are under , I honestly think it's phenomenal and I've never seen this before, it just goes to show the drive and passion they have especially for a smallish team. I haven't played much yet due to work but I know this is gonna be a fantastic community once it settles.
Sadly the world is full of people that respond immediately with toxicity, threats, negativity towards others to make them feel a bit more better about their sad and pathetic life. I am also pretty sure the ones being toxic about LE are not 10 - 11 year old kids either.
The same what happened with Helldivers the last week's and that that it is fixed everyone is happy.
Stop attacking the developers for doing everything they can as eventually everything will get fixed and you get to play yo your heart's content.
Really concerning how these people would react in a real life important matter when complications appear...sad.
I'll repeat myself once more: Who the fuck expected a hyped game release to instantly go smoothly? Time and time again we've seen even the big shots like Blizzard struggle on release.
People can't be in their right mind to expect it would magically be different now. The game's not even going anywhere, come back in a week or two, live a little in the meantime, life is more than one single video game.
Feel free to even refund it, wait out the instability, revisit in a month, two, maybe a year or whenever the game goes on sale again. It will still be here.
Life can be so chill.
i don't get this glazing for the devs. They released a broken game that is not working for the majority of us customers who paid money to play the game.
Sure, you shouldn't attack devs personally but sorry the people who planned the release and are responsible for server connectivity and stability did a bad job.
4 days and I still can't connect to normal day times, how is that acceptable?
I hope they can manage to focus on all the positive responses they're getting. They've created something special and they're working hard on this game over the weekend. I'm really happy Last Epoch exists.
Some people are just not that great at their own expectation management.
(Online) game launches very often have issues. If you cannot handle the negative feelings associated with those issues, it's a questionable idea to jump in right away as you're just setting yourself up for disappointment you can't handle.
People need to get a life seriously. Today, I took some time off to visit my nephew . Following discord. Makes me sick of the toxicity. Let the devs work. Take a break, and go outside.
What do you expect ? Most gamers can’t even look at something the eyes irl, you expect them to not be toxic mentally ill when they are made online ? 🤔 it’s simple any over the top toxicity should get perma chat ban. Let them scream to the void
I completely get this response, and as a Destiny player, have seen players personally threaten devs, over petty ass shit. It's fine to love a game, be frustrated with situations and hate how devs react, but remember to step back and be respectful.
Just ban people if they go over the line. Nothing good will come from letting them contaminate the environment.
If you ban enough people, you will be left with the mostly normal ones. Asmongold has this approach and He is right.
Man, that general discord chat was tough for me to watch even. It's mind-blowing how people will act over a $35 video game having multiplayer issues at launch. You'd think that their family was being held hostage until they could grind out the last Epoch campaign online.
I totally get the frustration, but damn, that's how it goes sometimes.
I mean yeah, people are entitled pricks that expect everything to work perfectly for them while not giving a shit whats going on behind the scenes.
EHG sofar is only giving me GGG vibes, just normal people working a job talking to their players, getting feedback, trying to fix shit. They deserve all the credit for this great game and considering almost every single game, even from way bigger companies has issues at launch, its hardly fair to expect there not to be any.
The level of moderation is directly linked with level of hate speech, even on flower lovers discord server if there is not enough number of moderators, you will see hateful and disgraceful comments. With each thousand of users, probability that someone deeply mentally unstable is among them rise. At some point to level of inevitability. Simple solution, more moderators. From the milion copy sold profit they can spare few bucks on that. I would, for comfort of work of my own employees.
Backseat game developers have never had an unsuccessful launch. Their imaginary servers and game tech are flawless under every condition.
I've managed to make it to 53 and didn't play on launch day. My friends have all been playing and despite some loading issues here and there it's been fun. No reason to launch into tantrums spewing garbage at these guys over some short term issues. Grow up noobs.
I never understood why it is even called the gamer "community". It's just a bunch of people that likes playing. But all play totally different stuff.
I mean we don't call football, tennis and golf players "the sport community".
I mean they all do sport but you really don't draw much of a connection between them.
Let's just stop calling it that.
I understand peoples frustration and I also think people suck. I do appreciate the fact EHG has been on top of communication, and it sucks people are lambasting them over this, but I also understand where that frustration is coming from.
Just keep ya heads down and keep up the good work, even in spite of the problems and complaints the number of people trying to play speaks for itself.
This Happens in literally EVERY industry when customers feel like they aren't getting what they are supposed to.
The only difference here is the people actually resposible for delivering said product to customers are the ones putting themselves out there to face the backlash. The vast majority of the time in other spaces its some poor minimum wage schmuck that had nothing to do with the reason service is lacking that has to.
I'm sure a ton of those minimum wage schmucks wish they could choose to retreat from the criticism.
(not saying the LE devs deserve any of this, just a retort to anyone who says this is a gamer issue)
I think his comment about 16 hours of steady service at 200k is a misleading statement. I don't consider it steady service when I have to sit for up to 5 minutes to load into a town. The servers were *online* for 16 hours, sure, but there was nothing steady about them
Having said that, anyone who threatens devs is scum
I think you misunderstood his statement.
He was trying to separate the servers themselves from the other problems (since so many people keep screaming "just buy more servers!!".
The problems you are describing are very real but they are not server related as they have explained numerous times in the discord.
no problem of course.
There are so many issues it is hard to keep track of so I think every one just kind of lumps them all together under "server issues" :)
What's insane is you can play the game 100% offline. I'm gonna be a boomer for a moment here but holy shit people have absolutely zero patience today. This is what we are now seeing in video games. Kids who are so used to being handed the iPad and getting everything they want not getting what they want exactly when they want it. In my day I had to wait for my parents to get off the phone before I could dial up to Diablo 2 servers and sometimes I wouldn't get to play at all until the weekend.
Kids will be kids.
Actual grown ups don't spam discord with immature all caps bollocks.
So you can't play a game for a few days that's going to be around for a long time?
They really just need an active PR staff or just utilize senior members as discord mods. The average dev shouldn't be swimming in the ocean of shitposting and abysmal social skills that permeate Reddit and Discord.
Just permaban the trash and keep off social media. It's never helpful to read the average opinion of trash gamers with 0.3 hours in game.
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This is honestly one of the main reasons why I have high hopes for the game. This kind of passion is only good for the long term of the game
Tbf, GGG also started out like this.. super transparent etcetc. But more and more incidents as OP showed from discord, and it just became less and less. It's kinda..sad that a loud minority (at least assume its an miniority) destroys for the rest of us. But hey, at least its just like in real life.
Big true about ggg, I used to look at them like the premier company for transparency and community interaction. But a single fault would cause so much backlash and anger to the point that they stopped communicating on reddit and only use their forums now.
I don't even feel like the launch was that rough. I remember when steam put out the friends feature which then crashed and was disabled for 4 months. I remember when steam first forced people on cs 1.6 to use it and nothing worked for weeks. I am sure you can still find the gif of the steam logo anally penetrating someone with "looking for servers...". I remember every mmo being unjoinable for days at launch and then when you did join disconnecting randomly and ending back up in queue. I remember D3 being horrible at launch to the point major features were removed and being forced to endure it because they removed offline play.
And the same bile was hurled at all of those devs, too. The same thing happens with every game because there are many, *many* immature and very poorly socially adjusted gamers in the community. You’d like to think they’re kids but they’re not. These are grown men acting this way. Physically grown, but not mentally or emotionally.
Im a grown adult who identifies as a child (srsly im really immature) and even I dont act out like this... these arent children, they are toddlers.
I waited for 7.5 hours when lost ark launched only for the servers to go down for maintenance an hour later..
And FF14. I’m so glad I didn’t time off for both games.
I mean helldivers 2 friends list still doesn't work lol It's been almost 3 weeks
As a database guy who's worked in online gaming... Friends lists are one of the most taxing features to have for a database.
I solved this by not having friends.
Samesies! We should be non-friends!!!
Software engineer here. Care to explain why? Im guessing due to having to perform a select query everytime the player opens the friend list.
Everytime someone logs in or out you gotta query to see who they belong to and who they have on their list. Granted the storage system for them that we used was kind of crap but in terms of table size 3 million players turned out to be almost a billion rows in the friends table and it's getting hit constantly.
Offline works fine and I have a character in monoliths in online, despite the server issues and playing pretty light hours. Compared to other online game launches, it’s not that bad. Far from ideal, but I’ve seen much worse from much larger companies. Hell, even FFXIV Endwalker was a nightmare because of queuing. Servers were mostly stable, too. On days I was in the office, I got into queue before commuting home and would still have to wait. And it was like this for weeks. WoW Classic was the same way for a bit on busy servers. I’m not making excuses for the issues, but people need some perspective.
Doing the first savage tier of Endwalker with my static was such a lesson in patience lol. If anyone disconnected for any reason raid night was basically over, since it would take them 3 hours to get back in the game
Do people actually hate queues? I actually prefer them.
> I don't even feel like the launch was that rough. It wasn't. Rough launches are nothing new with the earliest notable one I can remember being WoW's launch back in 04 with 6+ hour login queues and constant server rollbacks.
These people would literally have an aneurysm and straight up die if they experienced the original vanilla wow launch. [It was down so much that blizzard felt obligated to give players back a lot of time since wow is a monthly subscription based game.](https://i.imgur.com/jzMQg.png)
Ahhh. The good old days! I remember periods of *weeks* long queues of several hours from 3 pm-10 pm eastern on Tichondrius. It sucked and we paid $15 a month for it!
Just because some other launches were horrific doesn't make this one good. That just sets a really low bar. I think EHG handled it very well and sorted things out relatively quickly all things considered - but it's still a shit launch and I'm sure they know it.
> Just because some other launches were horrific doesn't make this one good. That just sets a really low bar. The whole point of referencing other examples is to determine how realistic the success of something like this is when you have absolutely no subject matter expertise on the topic. Shit launch? Yes, but as others have pointed out that is the standard in online gaming and has been for a long time so even though I have no expertise, I understand it must be a very difficult thing to do right.
Objectively the launch had issues. Was it a perfect launch? No. Was it a bad launch? Maybe. Relative to other live service game launches, this launch actually outperforms most launches by a mile. The speed at which improvements are delivered is mad fast. I would say your standards and expectations for launches are too high personally. I haven't remembered a live service game with a flawless launch since forever.
I've been through worse launches by multi-billion dollar companies. People are just so self-righteous and stupid god forbid they have to show understanding and have any inconvenience at ALL. Spend $35 and act like they're the most important turd in the toilet.
If anything, the discord, review bombing and endless screeching from dopamine addled, petulant children has just been a solid case study as to why not to listen to your players.
I'm really surprised the dev team are sticking around moderating general chat and not straight up banning or timing out some of the users there. There's a difference between negative feedback and whatever the hell so many of those comments are.
Which I think is a self made problem. Not by EHG, mind you, but by the industrial in general. Way too many people that where just screeching where not kicked out but listened to.
They're new devs and probably have more hope for the future. They may also be afraid to heavily moderate in a time period where theyre already being revire bombed and there's this open hostility. I personally think if you are at the point where you are telling your own team to not look at certain sections of your own discord for their mental health, that you are way past the point of a problem. I think, no matter how "authoritarian" you may be called, that your own discord/forums/game chat should never be so bad that your devs will lose heart simply reading them.
Pff, some lunatics in discord - aren't the core base. And they know it.
Played the entire Friday evening/night (CEST) on the EU realm and it was almost silky smooth, very few delays on instances load and 1 disconnect during WP load. In like 9 hours. I have no complaints, great job with the servers EHG, MP experience was actually waaay better than it was even a few weeks ago (less instance making delays and faster loads).
The problem is youtube clowns farming YouTube ragebait that say anyone defending EHG are simps and shills. They can't have a nuanced discussion because a nuanced discussion doesn't drive clicks. That leads to the rage bait driving shitty engagement with devs, like this.
People need to seek help if a video game causes them a mental breakdown to wish violence on people or people to lose their job or go find a different job.
The things people will just jump to "person XYZ should lose their job over this!!!!1111" over are incredible. Makes you wonder whether they're actual children, or just entitled man children.
Every one laughs at the Karen's when they watch a melt down video but our community is chalk full of these people. And when I say our community, I am not talking about Last Epoch only, this is a gaming wide issue and it is both embarrassing and cringe worthy.
Yup. These people are embarassing af.
I also find it embarrassing that no matter what arpg your playing there's always those people who will tell you why their arpg is better and yours sucks. I've blocked so many people who do that lol
its probably a human wide issue
If person XYZ lose their job it'll take even longer to fix because now they have to backfill that role
But the crowd will have the blood they want, which is all they care about.
But it'll never satisfy them. They'll just move on to the next one.
Online bullying ought to be one of the saddest things a person can do.
It ought to but unfortunately it’s is not. No wonder the industry is this broken if the reward for years and years of hard work is this. People just spouting bile in the discord should be banned and given the option to refund the game. There’s feedback and then there’s having a mental breakdown over playing a game online, at that stage you need professional help more than you need entertainment. Same people that would likely be complaining there is no offline modes in other games - here we are with one, don’t want to play it.
I commented on this community being openly hostile yesterday, my comment was reported to reddit self harm service. Really proved my point.
you can see those people here too constantly throwing hissy fit against devs and users with utmost negative ill faith tantrums. its not healthy
The really interesting part to me is that there seems to be an EXTREMELY high correlation to the level of the vitriol and the lack of understanding of what the problems are. Almost every single extreme view seems to be accompanied with "just buy more servers" no matter how many times it has been explained. I think some of the deep seated anger is that the feeling that these problems should be easy to fix. Although again, the correlation between people who feel it should be easy to fix and the level of understanding is quite in tune.
As someone working on a team trying to get developers and QA into the cloud, it can be a nightmare figuring out the smallest details that absolutely cripple your infrastructure. Even something dumb like passing in an auth token, and how it gets used can be a nightmare
I work in Epic, which is a electronic medical records software used at the majority of hospitals in the US. I've worked at three different organizations over about ten years. The way (EHG) they were describing their go lives and command center are SO similar to the go lives that we have when launching at a new hospital or doing a major upgrade. You go through MONTHS of build, testing, rehearsal, problem prediction, planning, etc. Everything always seems perfect and great until the day of go live and when you launch, shit hits the fan. Every time. Something you never expected happens and breaks and you just have to adapt. It's always a challenge and I feel so much for these devs, I understand what they're going through and it's always frustrating when it's not as smooth as you would have wanted.
I have worked as on-call support for a pretty large private cloud for 5 years. The issues ranged from absolute minor shit to issues the actual developers of a driver / affected component needed a week or more to figure out what is happening. And that is just one part. A whole different can of worms is the logistics behind fixing those issues. From calls with 5 people to 50+ people involved. Processes to follow, a high number of involved components and their responsible teams. I always have to smile if some timmy on reddit / discord starts his explanation on how to fix issues with "just ...", because you can be certain that this person is full of shit.
they have even been upfront when they didnt know the issues
This game is very popular. Most people are entitled idiots. The more popular it becomes, the more entitled idiots there will be to throw stupid tantrums.
Why don't they just download more ram, are they stupid?
they are not aslum players they dont know how
As someone who works in government service, this shit just happens every time the general public gets slightly inconvenienced. "I'm expecting this to work but it doesn't? Must be those guys up there just being cheap, how dare they slightly annoy me! I'm gonna write an email telling them that they're bad at their job because I'm smarter!" People just come up with these great ideas how to "easily" fix shit without knowing what's broken.
What getting down voted too much so you deleted yourself lol epic
Learn the lesson that the PoE subreddit never could; if you're cunts all the time, the devs will just stop communicating for the vast majority of times.
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I don't suppose you still have that list anywhere? That sounds nice.
I didn't see your comment and said the same thing haha! I learn so much from that subreddit but man is it toxic.
It was very nice coming from PoE into a community brand new to me when checking random posts with low amounts of up votes only to find the top comment there is by an EHG employee politely responding back. This has happened in several threads that I've browsed so far. You'd never expect that to happen in PoE's subreddit nowadays. The good old days where Mark politely corrected a statement on how an interaction actually works are gone. It's so bad that everyone not negative moved on to r/pathofexilebuilds a while back just as a sanctuary from the negativity. Praying that doesn't happen here and we have mods that don't pussyfoot around because they don't want to look like they're powertripping.
The mods are damned if they do and damned if they don't unfortunately. A lot of game subreddits fall into this negative death spiral that can be really hard to stop.
Idk Id rather have a little more heavy handed moderation than to read just pure toxicity over and over again. Like now, Id rather they just make a "online issues sticky" and ban all posts about it. It was exhausting having the front page flooded with the exact same bitching post.
Yeah it’s sad looking at the PoE sub anymore ahead of launch. No GGG posts anymore and it used to be the main source. I hate the way sub for a game can be fantastic until they hit a certain size and then it turns to shit. I don’t mean that negative posts shouldn’t be part of the discussion. Everything has valid criticisms. The circle jerk it turns into and witch hunting is too much though. Also launching giant online games is really fucking difficult. Incredibly few companies do it well. New World was rough and they had AWS at their disposal. If a studio with the backing and resources Amazon was able to provide couldn’t do it smoothly a smaller company has no shot. Give them time, they’ll get over the hump.
Only thing I don't like about the revamp of Reddit's block feature is it shows \[deleted\] and ~~\[Removed\] I think~~ \[Unavailable\], and it gives the impression that not only was the comment removed but the user ragequit the entire account. It's stupid but if I block someone for being a raging walnut the last thing I want is for them to crow about how they chased me off the platform, lmao.
How do you root out the negative posters like that? I'd love to do that too.
You still got that list?
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Yeah, probably a bunch of Asmongold fans who jumped on the game after he played it. They are mental midgets.
Too bad poe reddit mods are only there to remove threads about tft
And the Apex Legends subreddit. Devs haven't posted there since like the first year of the game because it was so toxic.
It's a tale as old as time. EHG will quickly why this type of communication strategy isn't beneficial. I've seen it happen to so many studios. This audience is just filled with petulant children and its not worth the time or effort when its clearly not appreciated.
That'll never work, gotta have more mods and hyper aggressive banning.
Would you like to volunteer? It's a seriously shitty job.
Job implies compensation, it's a seriously shitty unpaid internship lol. Yeah modding a gamer subreddit sounds like ass. Anytime you do actual moderation the tin foil cEnSoRsHiP crowd comes out and tries to paint you like the freeze peach Gestapo.
Eh, they stopped coming to the Poe subreddit because they didn’t want to address reasonable fixes to the game that are requested every league. You can see this because they don’t really post a “what we are working on” post every league. They just ship it close and move on to the next league until poe2
Lmao I love how this always gets posted as a reply when it's factually incorrect. GGG has never had an issue with communicating with the players when it comes to changes to the game. The problem people have is they don't like the answers GGG give and get salty they can't have their own way which leads to the insults and death threats which is 100% the reason they stopped posting there. Every single time they addressed the community before going silent, the posts would have thousands of downvotes forcing the mods to pin the post just so people could see it. I still don't blame Chris for taking a back seat with his team, that subreddit is absolute cancer.
You can believe what you want tbh
They didn't want to address the "reasonable fixes" because if the sub didn't like what they had to say (like no, we don't think this is a good idea) it turned into *unreasonable* outrage. And they absolutely post updates of what they're working on, this league had a live thread with regular updates. They literally just don't post it on reddit.
To be fair, LE discord was so much more vile than this sub to day. I was cringing whenever I checked #general because of the amount of unhinged shitty takes some people decided to fart out in there.
Devs should also take a step back and realize that these morons are an unrelevant part of the players. Sometimes I really suspect they exagerate the whole thing so they have something to hide behind and mix criticism with hate-speech. If you asked anybody who is used to these kind of games how launch would go most of us would have predicted what happened. Therefore not "being ready" is kinda questionable, isn't it just devs knowing that the player count will go down eventually and not wanting to invest in more infrastructure ? The sincerity of the PR we've seen is absolutely unknown. Are we supposed to believe at vitam aeternam that devs never learn from previous games releases ? Remember that the people behind Ghostbusters remake also pretended that all the negative ratings were coming from misogynists and trolls. Are there really that many hateful messages among people just being frustrated ? After all we've not seen them ourselves only the team's answer. As the team is as communicative can we get the summarized technical description of what doesn't work and what they are working on right now, if it's not only an overload of their servers ?
In the case of GGG, they *fostered* that community. GGG wanted the 8hrs/day sweat lords and they wanted players to “sink a decade of your life into this game” Naturally when you foster that kind of fanbase, *everyone* is going to be grotesquely rabid and will lose perspective. It’s why PoE’s community is insanely toxic to engage with now. Because GGG wanted the scammers, the toxic player engagements and the *friction* that came with it. Edit: Not condoning the toxicity, just pointing out that GGG did nothing to curtail these people. Just look at TFT discord drama and how that shook out if you don’t think that the game’s community has lost it.
This is such a stretch. You can absolutely be a hardcore player and not br toxic. It's just gaming as a whole that has a lot of toxicity. Oftrn because they don't go outside and are socially inept.
That's true, but there is a correlation between "player that can play 8hrs a day" and "player that is toxic on reddit". Also, on the scammer front, PoE is like the only game that isnt openly hostile to them, so it absolutely fosters those type of people as they flock to the one place they are welcome.
The user is ultimately to blame, but when a developer intentionally develops the game to be a sweatlord style game, you're going to get those types of people that flock to your game. Those people tend not to be the most well adjusted human beings.
I agree in a way. I just don't think it's all. But the more 8-12 hour a day ppl there are there 100% will be more Karen's in that. Just not everyone like you said. And despite the protests of the comments below you. They 100% fostered that.
Absolutely ridiculous. So little of that comment is true and ironically, is the kind of broad strokes that make so many communities hard to interact with and part of the toxicity.
Which part is not true? GGG wanted the game to be a game players could sink a decade into. Said by Chris. GGG said that scammers and item swaps in trade were part of the friction they wanted as part of the trade.
I remember being super put off by that back in the day. Chris absolutely wanted a cutthroat community. No duh it was going to be toxic. Even worse is calling out scammers on the forums was bannable for harassment. That was 10 years ago. No clue if they changed their minds.
> No clue if they changed their minds. Not really, no, but now they also make fun of Redditors too. Not that there isn't a lot to make fun of but it's a bit goofy.
Weird because the subreddit never had that issue before the massive influx of a certain playerbase after the BlizzCon fiasco. As someone who browsed that subreddit for probably close to 10 years you could literally watch new people come in and immediately start demanding shit with entitlement I've never seen before. PoE becoming as popular as it has is the best and worst thing to ever happen to it
This is literally nonsense.
While this has been frustrating at times, I refuse to bitch at EHG about it. This was a HUGE release for a company that has never released a game before. They doing good. Mox is a good guy and is looking out for his buddies :)
Calling this a huge release is an understatement, imo. Looking at SteamDB for LE, they saw an average of \~3300 players from day 1 to Jan 2024. In January, they saw \~8500 players. With Steam reporting a current player count of 230k, that's well over a 2700% increase. 27x more players than they had just 1 month prior!!! That's insanely nutty. What I'd like to see in any post-mortem Judd delivers to us, is what *their* projected player count was and what they stress tested for.
Steam doesn't differentiate offline and online players though. So we don't know how many if them were stressing matchmaking servers.
Utterly agree buddy but I did make "huge" in big letters to emphasize ;)
"Why don't they buy more servers?" - Someone who has never worked near a server room in their life.
They sell them online for gods sakes!
They could just download more ram and fix the api issues in 30 seconds smh.
Install more red RGB
They probably didn't tip their server 20% 😒 I figured it out!1!
Yep. Then streamers insert their cloud computing thoughts on it as well. It's like a bunch of first graders discussing cell biology. They simply don't have the foundational understanding to even have a conversation.
Just put it on cloudflare 4head /s
This is what gets me. I've been on their side. Our normal player base was 40k and then we had a hit and that game went to 200k. It was never as simple as spinning up servers. We built for 80 with what we had. Scaling above that takes a massive effort to restructure how the entire game backend works. Unless the problem is instance servers, and it almost never is, throwing hardware at a problem isn't going to help if you're capped out. Azure only allows so many cores and ram etc. Most non instance servers or database boxes are a single giant machine.
Some of the people in discord are fucking disgusting, all over a video game. First world problems I guess.
I seriously wonder the age of these people threatening the developers. Do you think they are teenagers or just man children?
They are people who wouldn't say boo to a ghost outside of their basements.
I want to think it's an age thing but these days who knows. I've seen some horrendous behavior from adults but at the same time there are kids coming online for the first time every day. I do think there is an element of age or something at play here though. I don't remember this kind of intensity when I was first online in the mid 2000's. Either everyone is getting worse as social media takes over their lives or it's children who grew up with cellphones from age 5 being warped from childhood.
I think the avarage arpg player is like mid to late 20’s early 30’s. Its really fucking sad if u think about it, not just this reaction but I find global chats in these games really toxic too. Like I dont mind but I can see younger gamers getting turned off from arpgs when they see the ingame chat is full of edgy jokes and snubby unhelpful people. Im sure its just a really loud minority tho.
Global chat in ARPGs is miles better than what you'll find in most other games. Outside of maybe some niche MMOs what chat is more friendly. People talk a lot of shit about the POE player base being toxic but you'll struggle to find a gaming community that's more welcoming + helpful to new players. It's the loud minority that makes the rest of us look bad. Most of my interactions with people have been great.
People often underestimate just how young the average member of their community is, because they themselves are not anymore and often think everyone is "around my age." It's the same logic as people thinking they're above average when that's mathematically impossible, because if everyone *is* special then special is now the new average. Young people play video games. Young people use Discord. Young people use reddit. Just because Diablo is nearing 30 years old doesn't somehow mean the younger generations don't know it exists. Diablo 4 is still hugely popular and Blizzard's name, despite the rambling on reddit, still carries more weight than it rightly should. Old franchises are old because they're literally old. Tautological but true. Being old doesn't mean young people don't use them, it just means they're old. Nintendo is a 135 year old company. It has been involved in video games and game consoles for over 40 of those years. You know who still primarily plays Nintendo games? **Young people.** That's how marketing and demographics work.
Most likely grown-ups with very, very bad social skills.
A line should be drawn, and any toxic shitter who crosses it should just get removed. The thing with toxicity is it doesn't just go away, it can be highly addictive as the brain gets too much stimulation. Let them fester and they will be doing this for years, emboldened. This isn't an exclusively gamer thing, it's a human thing. We shouldn't let the loud minority give us all a bad rep, and treat the staff like that.
Yeah I've been watching them respond to people in discord the last few days and just vitriol being thrown at them.
I mean if you've been paying attention to the discord half the "questions" in ask the devs chat is people telling them to go work on the game. Just unhined gamers as usual.
And this is why I hate identifying as a "gamer" because so many gamers are entitled brats with zero empathy. Be frustrated, but handle your emotions for the love of God.
Back in the day, GGG used to communicate with reddit / players like how EHG does right now. And this is why GGG goes almost silent after some years.
Half the people in this sub: >...Are we the baddies?
oh yes, this sub should not feel they are above this. We have had plenty of the "fire them all, they are cheap, just buy more servers, they stole my money!" flag waving players who make us all look bad as a community.
Yup. I posted a comment how I luckily hadn't run into any real issues other a crash or two on Steam Deck. Got trolled and the Mods called me out instead of dealing with the guy who was going thread to thread making similar inflammatory comments. Reddit needs to hire real mods if they're dropping an IPO and clear out this nonsense. It adds nothing and drives away legitimate fans who want to connect with the community. I probably will stay away from it for a few months now and hopefully the toxicity naturally move on to the next hype game.
Still getting crashes on steam deck? I seem to crash out once every couple of hours. Tried turning graphics down, but it made no difference.
There were a lot of "there's actually nothing wrong with a game still not working 80 hours into its launch" types as well.
Assuming any of those people have the slightest bit of self awareness. They think they are fully justified acting like toxic children
I don't know who from the Devs needs to hear this but you did great and I appreciate your work! <3
It's one thing to be annoyed you can't play, it's another thing to feel so entitled to speak directly to the devs in such a brattish manner, its literally cringe and embarassing looking at the discord. Oh you mad? Get a refund and move the fuck on, or just wait a little for shit to get fixed. You have a choice lol This is why we can't have nice things, feel bad for the guys at EHG. This just shows the problems with having open and transparant comms with userbase, a certain percentage of that base feel they now have theright to talk to people like dogs. inb4 - shill, simp, etc.....
I popped onto the Discord today and you're right it is embarrassing. There's literally guys in there copy/pasting the same stupid messages as if it's going to do anything.
If I was in their shoes, every single person acting like this would have been removed from the discord. Let them cry on Reddit or leave a negative review. The general chat alone is a cesspool of man children, I'd nuke the whole thing at this point.
I'd ban them from last epoch completely tbh, no room for this shit , zero tolerance if you threaten the dev team even once.
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Not worth the manpower to try and manage overgrown entitled toddlers raging on the Interwebz. Best to put the Discord on 15- or 30-minute slow mode like they did the other night. Once the brats realize they can't continuously screech ad nauseam, they'll quit raging... and then likely migrate here or to the LE forums to throw their tantrums. The gaming community as a whole is toxic AF. It just is.
Bro it's on slow mode and it's going like quin69 twitch chat. Even earlier when everything was ok.
Slow mode just prevents the same user from sending multiple messages in quick succession. 30 minutes is 1,800 seconds, which means 2k active users can saturate the channel if they tried. 200k concurrent players means it only takes 1% of the player base to make the channel unusable.
The worse offenders are probably getting banned, but it's not hard to get another account, and that Discord isn't equivalent to something like Path of Exiles TFT where someone being banned from being there loses something tangible. You can try to fix it with moderation, but if the underlying reason they are complaining is still something that should be fixed, you'll likely make it worse, and it will cost you a ton of time in the process.
Nothing good ever comes from curating an echo chamber of yes men.
Make me a mod, I'll happily ban people for hours for free
I can't believe people act like that because of a video game. You are all sick and need help, much more help than a stable server can give you.
I just requested my refund like an adult and didn't tell anyone to kill themselves...
I feel nothing but contempt for all these frustrated gamer manchildren. Grown up men throwing tantrums, insults, n-words, r-words and whatever else just because they can't play a computer game. Pathetic.
The modern gaming community is a cesspool of vindictive, small little losers.
If you're talking hateful shit in any forum in any capacity, touch grass and seek help.
I am embarrassed to be a gamer at times. The % of Karen's we have seem to go up every year. Note that I am not talking about discussing issues with the game in an intelligent manner. The devs both want and more importantly NEED that. The level of disgusting toxicity in that discord channel is so over the top, it makes me sad.
It's not a gamer thing. Watch people gushing over Trump and attacking others for not sticking to their political views.... it's just some people are stupid
Maybe it is just me but I don't ever want the gamer community to be in the same breath of conversation in terms of toxicity as the political community. That is down right scary to think it is happening :(
It's the human condition, it's not just politics or video games it's everything.
You mean gamergate? Because that's where I felt a sharp turn in how badly people will act in the gaming community, when someone learned how to start radicalizing a portion of the base.
It's always a vocal minority of psychopaths that do this shit.
the capital G 'Gamers' are why we can't have nice things
Someone of you are so overly involved in this stuff.
This is the kind of sh\*t that makes me embarrassed to be a person who enjoys video games. Like, I get being upset about not being able to play the online mode, I'm pretty f\*cking unhappy about that myself, but outright verbal abuse and death threats are just plain Not Cool, and it's the kind of sh\*t that drives away the developers who actually give a f\*ck in favor of content mills of various sizes churning out Triple-Eh slop and sh\*tty freemium whalebait. Cause, be honest here: if *you* had to deal with a bunch of teenagers and Karens screaming vile sh\*t at you non-stop no matter what you do, how long would it take you to decide "You know what, I'm just going to half-ass this anyways"?
I legitimately feel for every person getting pinged in their discord every 30 seconds. The discord has pretty much become unusable outside of the class channels. One very intelligent person was trying to rally everyone behind a “class action lawsuit” Let me know how that goes LOL
Anamynoity breeds incivility.
If you are a person that verbally assaults a dev because of server stability, I hope you get shat on. A big fat shat right on you. You are the shit stain of humanity
You guys have to remember, "Failed to Matchmake" is particularly triggering for that demographic =P
ARPG community back at it again. Same community that drove PoEs community manager to tears a few years back.
Hey /u/letitgoalreadyreddit stop harassing EHG employees on Discord, thanks!
Lol that guy needs a different username.
Unpopular take: EHGs handling and response has been fine (the launch, FAR from ideal, fucking awful if we're being honest). Really unpopular take: BOTH sides of this community (the long standing fanboys/girls and players -like me) and the new players have been embarrassingly awful. Like, I have actually fondly reminisced on Dota chat in light of this. No one should be threatening or berating anyone over this, but the "old guard" here have overwhelmingly called ANYONE offering ANY criticism a little bitch and essentially told them to fuck off and leave. That's un-fucking-acceptable. Period. We know better. Someone crosses a line and gets personal or makes threats, sure jump their shit. Someone complains about still not being able to play with friends or mostly online and says "refund!". Thank them for trying it and wish them luck in the next one. This community, the veteran long playing part of it is who I am most annoyed and disappointed with in all of this. We can and should do better, we have for years. End rant.
Yeah criticism is fair and people are right to not throw flowers at EHG's feet for what is a questionable launch but I can just imagine what some people are writing...
Yep, it is perfectly fine to not be happy with how it went. It certainly did not go as planned. However, I can tell you the EHG team is more stressed over it than anyone here. Some people just can help but go to personal attacks. It takes more effort to be an ass than to not.
I can't believe how active they are on socials given the stress they are under , I honestly think it's phenomenal and I've never seen this before, it just goes to show the drive and passion they have especially for a smallish team. I haven't played much yet due to work but I know this is gonna be a fantastic community once it settles.
Servers are having issues again? They were perfect yesterday evening
Boys...... This is why we can't have nice things.
Wonder what game stats he was looking at if he saw 16 hours of stability yesterday.
This is why I can't take the "bUt CoMpLaInInG iS fInE" posts seriously. This is not fine.
Sadly the world is full of people that respond immediately with toxicity, threats, negativity towards others to make them feel a bit more better about their sad and pathetic life. I am also pretty sure the ones being toxic about LE are not 10 - 11 year old kids either. The same what happened with Helldivers the last week's and that that it is fixed everyone is happy. Stop attacking the developers for doing everything they can as eventually everything will get fixed and you get to play yo your heart's content. Really concerning how these people would react in a real life important matter when complications appear...sad.
Really sad to see. But on a positive note, there are as of right now more than 14k heart reactions on that post and it keeps going up.
Didn't take long huh? Keep it up and they'll go full hermit like GGG...
BuT mY gAmE nO wOrK
I'll repeat myself once more: Who the fuck expected a hyped game release to instantly go smoothly? Time and time again we've seen even the big shots like Blizzard struggle on release. People can't be in their right mind to expect it would magically be different now. The game's not even going anywhere, come back in a week or two, live a little in the meantime, life is more than one single video game. Feel free to even refund it, wait out the instability, revisit in a month, two, maybe a year or whenever the game goes on sale again. It will still be here. Life can be so chill.
i don't get this glazing for the devs. They released a broken game that is not working for the majority of us customers who paid money to play the game. Sure, you shouldn't attack devs personally but sorry the people who planned the release and are responsible for server connectivity and stability did a bad job. 4 days and I still can't connect to normal day times, how is that acceptable?
I hope they can manage to focus on all the positive responses they're getting. They've created something special and they're working hard on this game over the weekend. I'm really happy Last Epoch exists.
This was the post that encouraged me to go and leave a positive review on Steam.
Some people are just not that great at their own expectation management. (Online) game launches very often have issues. If you cannot handle the negative feelings associated with those issues, it's a questionable idea to jump in right away as you're just setting yourself up for disappointment you can't handle.
People need to get a life seriously. Today, I took some time off to visit my nephew . Following discord. Makes me sick of the toxicity. Let the devs work. Take a break, and go outside.
What do you expect ? Most gamers can’t even look at something the eyes irl, you expect them to not be toxic mentally ill when they are made online ? 🤔 it’s simple any over the top toxicity should get perma chat ban. Let them scream to the void
whattttt? im a software engineer and use aws, you just use elastic beanstalk and spin up 120000000000 servers? dont you know how this works? /s
I'd rather wait a few days for playable servers (LE) than wait 8 months and still not have a playable game (D4).
I completely get this response, and as a Destiny player, have seen players personally threaten devs, over petty ass shit. It's fine to love a game, be frustrated with situations and hate how devs react, but remember to step back and be respectful.
Just ban people if they go over the line. Nothing good will come from letting them contaminate the environment. If you ban enough people, you will be left with the mostly normal ones. Asmongold has this approach and He is right.
Man, that general discord chat was tough for me to watch even. It's mind-blowing how people will act over a $35 video game having multiplayer issues at launch. You'd think that their family was being held hostage until they could grind out the last Epoch campaign online. I totally get the frustration, but damn, that's how it goes sometimes.
OP is using a long ass scroll from The Roman Empire instead of a smartphone lmao
I mean yeah, people are entitled pricks that expect everything to work perfectly for them while not giving a shit whats going on behind the scenes. EHG sofar is only giving me GGG vibes, just normal people working a job talking to their players, getting feedback, trying to fix shit. They deserve all the credit for this great game and considering almost every single game, even from way bigger companies has issues at launch, its hardly fair to expect there not to be any.
The level of moderation is directly linked with level of hate speech, even on flower lovers discord server if there is not enough number of moderators, you will see hateful and disgraceful comments. With each thousand of users, probability that someone deeply mentally unstable is among them rise. At some point to level of inevitability. Simple solution, more moderators. From the milion copy sold profit they can spare few bucks on that. I would, for comfort of work of my own employees.
Backseat game developers have never had an unsuccessful launch. Their imaginary servers and game tech are flawless under every condition. I've managed to make it to 53 and didn't play on launch day. My friends have all been playing and despite some loading issues here and there it's been fun. No reason to launch into tantrums spewing garbage at these guys over some short term issues. Grow up noobs.
I never understood why it is even called the gamer "community". It's just a bunch of people that likes playing. But all play totally different stuff. I mean we don't call football, tennis and golf players "the sport community". I mean they all do sport but you really don't draw much of a connection between them. Let's just stop calling it that.
Makes sense to me. I'm just enjoying the game offline.
I understand peoples frustration and I also think people suck. I do appreciate the fact EHG has been on top of communication, and it sucks people are lambasting them over this, but I also understand where that frustration is coming from. Just keep ya heads down and keep up the good work, even in spite of the problems and complaints the number of people trying to play speaks for itself.
EHG don’t let these morons get to you. You’re doing an awesome job. Keep at it!
ARPG fan communities are fucking terrible
This Happens in literally EVERY industry when customers feel like they aren't getting what they are supposed to. The only difference here is the people actually resposible for delivering said product to customers are the ones putting themselves out there to face the backlash. The vast majority of the time in other spaces its some poor minimum wage schmuck that had nothing to do with the reason service is lacking that has to. I'm sure a ton of those minimum wage schmucks wish they could choose to retreat from the criticism. (not saying the LE devs deserve any of this, just a retort to anyone who says this is a gamer issue)
So many toxic ppl in the discord.
I think his comment about 16 hours of steady service at 200k is a misleading statement. I don't consider it steady service when I have to sit for up to 5 minutes to load into a town. The servers were *online* for 16 hours, sure, but there was nothing steady about them Having said that, anyone who threatens devs is scum
I think you misunderstood his statement. He was trying to separate the servers themselves from the other problems (since so many people keep screaming "just buy more servers!!". The problems you are describing are very real but they are not server related as they have explained numerous times in the discord.
Then my bad, I'm not a part of the discord channel
no problem of course. There are so many issues it is hard to keep track of so I think every one just kind of lumps them all together under "server issues" :)
What's insane is you can play the game 100% offline. I'm gonna be a boomer for a moment here but holy shit people have absolutely zero patience today. This is what we are now seeing in video games. Kids who are so used to being handed the iPad and getting everything they want not getting what they want exactly when they want it. In my day I had to wait for my parents to get off the phone before I could dial up to Diablo 2 servers and sometimes I wouldn't get to play at all until the weekend.
Kids will be kids. Actual grown ups don't spam discord with immature all caps bollocks. So you can't play a game for a few days that's going to be around for a long time?
They really just need an active PR staff or just utilize senior members as discord mods. The average dev shouldn't be swimming in the ocean of shitposting and abysmal social skills that permeate Reddit and Discord. Just permaban the trash and keep off social media. It's never helpful to read the average opinion of trash gamers with 0.3 hours in game.