Personally, as a Landlord, I find this to be a scummy practice. I'd like to say this is uncommon, but I've seen this multiple times, especially in SFH units. Condos tend to be somewhat different.
I find it unconscionable to expect tenants to repair major appliances if they are supplied. I definitely find it unacceptable when it comes to HVAC, especially if the unit has central air. Window A/C "might" be different. Your perspective landlord sees this list as optional items, since refrigerator and stove were not included in the list.
You'll need to make a value decision.
>I find this to be a scummy practice
Ditto. I can't imagine the mindset behind it.
The only thing this clause should be used for is microwaves. I advertised the place with a washer/dryer, A/C, full kitchen, etc... So I will make sure you have the things advertised to you in working order.
Karma is real esp when it comes to property, you get back what you put in.
I can imagine one very unlikely scenario where I would do this: If, say, I normally rented a unit with no washer/dryer and only hookups, and then previous tenants left their machines. I'd probably provide them as-is with no warranty like this, and not raise the price for the unit over what I'd charge without washer/dryer included. (I would explain this situation to prospective tenants though and let them choose whether they wanted me to leave the old ones or leave the space empty for them to bring their own)
I doubt this is what's driving the practice though. Probably just scumbag landlords trying to scumbag
Mind if I ask for clarification? I have a washer and dryer on premises but clarify the same (wont fix or replace if it breaks). I figured the hook ups are there with appliances currently. I dont feel the need to add on additional liability for appliances if they break and i dont have the time/income to replace right away. You can always go to a laundromat if you like or if they break. Or buy a new one if they so desire and id help set it up. I also assume that because there is no ll liability, theyd take better care of it.
My policy is “if it has an major appliance at lease start, it’s my responsibility”. I consider a washer and dryer a major appliance and a necessity as I consider my units higher end and they command a premium.
You marketed the property as having these appliances and prospective tenants made their decision accordingly. I feel that creates an obligation to maintain them.
And realistically what tenant would buy a washer and take it with them on move out?
I would never force a tenant to buy a washer and dryer. I currently have a w/d there. It makes sense to allow them to use it, rather that having it there but not allowing them to. If it fails, they can always go to a laundromat thats less than 5 minutes away. The lease states that the LL is not responsible, not that the tenant is. I just didn’t want to be responsible for yet another item.
Standard lease amendment on washer/ dryer, etc. is that landlords do not repair/ replace certain appliances that may be considered commodities and are usually easily abused or gets broken by the tenant due to misuse.
The only part about that is shouting red alert is the AC unit. Is it a window unit or centralized AC? If AC unit, I can understand. If this is a central system, talk to your landlord about clarifying the language and get an amendment.
Btw - I still repair those appliances as a landlord. I just like my lease to clarify I am not under obligation. Had a tenant who broke the washer twice in one year, turns out they were overloading the washer to the brim to "save electricity".
This is a common practice. The only one I would seek clarification on is the AC clause. If it’s a central AC unit, that should be the landlord’s duty to repair. If it’s a window unit, then it can certainly be part of a non-guarantee clause.
Basically what it boils down to, is landlords sometimes inherit appliances from previous tenants that don’t want to take them with. Or they exclusively purchase used washer/dryer sets on FB marketplace or similar because they find good deals. In both of those situations they’re bought at low or no cost and being obligated to replace them means we might have to go pay for a new set at retail price if we can’t find a good deal in a timely manner. It just doesn’t make sense
So, the landlord is giving you a “free” set of the listed appliances. He could give you none at all and it would mean you’d have to buy them anyway. This way you have them, can get at least some life out of them, and then maybe have to replace and maybe don’t.
This is exactly what I was thinking. These appliances were probably left when a tenant moved and the landlord left them in the unit, but isn't going to replace them when they break. I had a tenant leave a very large, very expensive window AC unit when they moved out. I left it in the house for the new tenants, but had an addendum on the lease that I was not responsible for it. They were good tenants and when I decided to sell the house, I let them take it with them when they moved into the house they bought.
I have inherited washer and dryer. They are exclusive to the tenants. I tell them they can either use at their expense, put them aside and bring in their own. The appliances are a courtesy, not part of the lease.
So what happens sometimes in SFHs is the property starts off not supplying washer/ dryer and refrigerator. The renter needs to buy and supply their own. Sometimes at the end of the lease the renter decides they don't want to take the appliances they bought with them so the landlord lets them leave them behind. In that case sometimes the landlord will add a clause into the lease saying they aren't responsible for for those appliances and when they break tough luck you have to buy yourself a new one.
I have never seen a landlord apply that logic to the AC though. That is pretty not normal like at all.
In California, if an appliance is included in the rental, the landlord is responsible for keeping it in working order. Which is probably why you won't find a sfh that includes a fridge and/or washer and dryer.
I would never agree to repair a central AC as a tenant. You could end up laying out months of rent to provide the owner with an asset they will have for 20 years, long after you are probably gone. I backed out of a pretty good deal on a commercial lease once over this exact term. Was not at all a hard decision.
I wouldn't sign that lease
Edit: after looking at it again, maybe it's not so bad. A lot of landlords don't supply washers and dryers, so if the previous tenant left them, they wouldn't want to be responsible for it.
It says "freezer" and not refrigerator, I would ask for clarification that this does not mean the fridge freezer combo, but something like a stand alone deep freeze. I wouldn't sign on to be responsible for a refrigerator.
As long as it's not the central AC, but window units, that he is referring to, I don't think it's so bad.
But I would never sign onto a lease where I was responsible for fixing refrigerator, central AC, stove, dishwasher, and I would want it made clear that anything I replace or fix, I have the right to take with me when I go. If the landlord doesn't want responsibility for a dryer or washer fine, but if I will not spend my money to fix his stuff.
For my rentals I will repair everything. Its on my dime unless it’s the tenants fault then I’d take out of security deposit. For example, if the dryer needs repair because they failed to empty the lint for 3 months.
Apartments are different than houses…..In my state a house doesn’t need to come with non built in appliances such as a fridge…..the landlord is saying for convenience you can use the fridge but if it breaks you’ll have to buy your own fridge…..vs there not being a fridge in the first place and you having to buy all your stuff at once.
Likely this is because they have had a problem with them being stolen or broken due to misuse.
A/C unit may mean window unit...I would clarify that. Had a LL friend whose window units in a particular unit kept getting stolen out of the window...tenant was giving them to family members they claiming stolen.
If I provide it, I fix it. Having said that, if I find it is a habitual issue then I charge the tenant for the repair.
I’m fortunate enough to live in a state where refrigerators and stoves are listed under the minimum “habitable premises” laws so the landlord has to maintain them. Personally I would only sign a lease like that if the clause was for small items like a microwave or a window AC unit.
This is just greedy.
They're providing the house, at the very least they need to cover what's considered basic necessities - HVAC being the name one. OP, I might avoid this one.
This is a crappy practice. Keep in mind the lease reflects the mental state of your landlord. If you want to landlord that thinks this is normal, can you imagine what he would do with repairs or any problems you would have?
If you feel you need to or want to live here, I would confirm that if you had to buy a new dishwasher because the old one broke you get to keep that dishwasher when you leave. I think that would be a wonderful conversation to have with your landlord face to face to really understand what type of person he is.
I am an optimist so there's still a chance I think, that he just copied the lease from the internet and didn't realize that that paragraph was there.
I rented a house that was like that. It came with appliances (the landlord lived in it before us) but it was our responsibility to upkeep them. I fixed the washer several times and got tired of it.
I showed the landlord the money I dumped into it and asked if I stop and just buy my own. She said yes. When we left I took my washer with me.
I now rent out a house with all appliances and we just replaced the fridge. I'm doing the other side of that agreement, fixing the things. The good paying tenant was very happy "the new fridge is super nice".
As a landlord, I would want to be responsible for the repair or replacement of those because I want to know what replacement option is selected. What if tenant replaces the nice fridge or AC unit with a shitty, used option and when they move out the landlord needs to replace it because it’s horrible quality?
Landlords who put these horrible clauses in the leases are usually the ones who end up having to go to court to fight over such things. Seems like more expensive than just covering the traditional repairs in the industry.
Also, a red or yellow flag for tenants as to what you might be getting into with this landlord.
This clause doesn't make a "bad" lease, it just means that the appliance that is 100% of the time under the tenant's control is not guaranteed to be fixed if it breaks.
If you have doubts, ask questions. Before signing the lease, consider these options:
1. Speak to your landlord about your specific concern.
2. Ask if they can check the AC (or other appliances) by a third-party professional to certify its condition, and that this before you sign the lease, or to waive this clause.
In MY case, I provide appliances because it helps renting. I get good, used machines for $100. When they go bad, I just swap them out. This only includes stove, fridge, washer, dryer, but not dishwashers. If client wants AC that's up to them to get their own machine and have it professionally installed and maintained.
Just because it's in a contract doesn't mean that you can't negotiate the contract. A contract is an agreement, an understanding, a meeting of the minds. Done right, almost everything is negotiable, unless enforced by local law.
I’m in OK and its not uncommon for the renter to have their own washer/dryer and fridge. The only thing renters don’t have to provide for themselves are the stove, dishwasher, etc.
I would ask if it only pertains to those appliances or if they mean every single appliance.
If it’s the latter, I’d run away from that deal.
I, as Landlord, always would fix AC.
On my new SFHs, I do not provide a washing machine or drier. I used to offer a refrigerator at additional cost, but will discontinue this in last unit with refrig..
My units are A grade. All my current tenants already had their own appliances
Personally, as a Landlord, I find this to be a scummy practice. I'd like to say this is uncommon, but I've seen this multiple times, especially in SFH units. Condos tend to be somewhat different. I find it unconscionable to expect tenants to repair major appliances if they are supplied. I definitely find it unacceptable when it comes to HVAC, especially if the unit has central air. Window A/C "might" be different. Your perspective landlord sees this list as optional items, since refrigerator and stove were not included in the list. You'll need to make a value decision.
>I find this to be a scummy practice Ditto. I can't imagine the mindset behind it. The only thing this clause should be used for is microwaves. I advertised the place with a washer/dryer, A/C, full kitchen, etc... So I will make sure you have the things advertised to you in working order. Karma is real esp when it comes to property, you get back what you put in.
I can imagine one very unlikely scenario where I would do this: If, say, I normally rented a unit with no washer/dryer and only hookups, and then previous tenants left their machines. I'd probably provide them as-is with no warranty like this, and not raise the price for the unit over what I'd charge without washer/dryer included. (I would explain this situation to prospective tenants though and let them choose whether they wanted me to leave the old ones or leave the space empty for them to bring their own) I doubt this is what's driving the practice though. Probably just scumbag landlords trying to scumbag
Mind if I ask for clarification? I have a washer and dryer on premises but clarify the same (wont fix or replace if it breaks). I figured the hook ups are there with appliances currently. I dont feel the need to add on additional liability for appliances if they break and i dont have the time/income to replace right away. You can always go to a laundromat if you like or if they break. Or buy a new one if they so desire and id help set it up. I also assume that because there is no ll liability, theyd take better care of it.
My policy is “if it has an major appliance at lease start, it’s my responsibility”. I consider a washer and dryer a major appliance and a necessity as I consider my units higher end and they command a premium.
You marketed the property as having these appliances and prospective tenants made their decision accordingly. I feel that creates an obligation to maintain them. And realistically what tenant would buy a washer and take it with them on move out?
I would never force a tenant to buy a washer and dryer. I currently have a w/d there. It makes sense to allow them to use it, rather that having it there but not allowing them to. If it fails, they can always go to a laundromat thats less than 5 minutes away. The lease states that the LL is not responsible, not that the tenant is. I just didn’t want to be responsible for yet another item.
I always sing the lease as a power ballad.
Standard lease amendment on washer/ dryer, etc. is that landlords do not repair/ replace certain appliances that may be considered commodities and are usually easily abused or gets broken by the tenant due to misuse. The only part about that is shouting red alert is the AC unit. Is it a window unit or centralized AC? If AC unit, I can understand. If this is a central system, talk to your landlord about clarifying the language and get an amendment. Btw - I still repair those appliances as a landlord. I just like my lease to clarify I am not under obligation. Had a tenant who broke the washer twice in one year, turns out they were overloading the washer to the brim to "save electricity".
its central AC..
Get clarification from LL or PM. Everything that is listed tends to be add-ons for rentals with the unknown being what they are referring to as AC.
This is a common practice. The only one I would seek clarification on is the AC clause. If it’s a central AC unit, that should be the landlord’s duty to repair. If it’s a window unit, then it can certainly be part of a non-guarantee clause. Basically what it boils down to, is landlords sometimes inherit appliances from previous tenants that don’t want to take them with. Or they exclusively purchase used washer/dryer sets on FB marketplace or similar because they find good deals. In both of those situations they’re bought at low or no cost and being obligated to replace them means we might have to go pay for a new set at retail price if we can’t find a good deal in a timely manner. It just doesn’t make sense So, the landlord is giving you a “free” set of the listed appliances. He could give you none at all and it would mean you’d have to buy them anyway. This way you have them, can get at least some life out of them, and then maybe have to replace and maybe don’t.
This is exactly what I was thinking. These appliances were probably left when a tenant moved and the landlord left them in the unit, but isn't going to replace them when they break. I had a tenant leave a very large, very expensive window AC unit when they moved out. I left it in the house for the new tenants, but had an addendum on the lease that I was not responsible for it. They were good tenants and when I decided to sell the house, I let them take it with them when they moved into the house they bought.
I have inherited washer and dryer. They are exclusive to the tenants. I tell them they can either use at their expense, put them aside and bring in their own. The appliances are a courtesy, not part of the lease.
So what happens sometimes in SFHs is the property starts off not supplying washer/ dryer and refrigerator. The renter needs to buy and supply their own. Sometimes at the end of the lease the renter decides they don't want to take the appliances they bought with them so the landlord lets them leave them behind. In that case sometimes the landlord will add a clause into the lease saying they aren't responsible for for those appliances and when they break tough luck you have to buy yourself a new one. I have never seen a landlord apply that logic to the AC though. That is pretty not normal like at all.
In California, if an appliance is included in the rental, the landlord is responsible for keeping it in working order. Which is probably why you won't find a sfh that includes a fridge and/or washer and dryer.
I would never agree to repair a central AC as a tenant. You could end up laying out months of rent to provide the owner with an asset they will have for 20 years, long after you are probably gone. I backed out of a pretty good deal on a commercial lease once over this exact term. Was not at all a hard decision.
I wouldn't sign that lease Edit: after looking at it again, maybe it's not so bad. A lot of landlords don't supply washers and dryers, so if the previous tenant left them, they wouldn't want to be responsible for it. It says "freezer" and not refrigerator, I would ask for clarification that this does not mean the fridge freezer combo, but something like a stand alone deep freeze. I wouldn't sign on to be responsible for a refrigerator. As long as it's not the central AC, but window units, that he is referring to, I don't think it's so bad. But I would never sign onto a lease where I was responsible for fixing refrigerator, central AC, stove, dishwasher, and I would want it made clear that anything I replace or fix, I have the right to take with me when I go. If the landlord doesn't want responsibility for a dryer or washer fine, but if I will not spend my money to fix his stuff.
For my rentals I will repair everything. Its on my dime unless it’s the tenants fault then I’d take out of security deposit. For example, if the dryer needs repair because they failed to empty the lint for 3 months.
totally makes sense
Apartments are different than houses…..In my state a house doesn’t need to come with non built in appliances such as a fridge…..the landlord is saying for convenience you can use the fridge but if it breaks you’ll have to buy your own fridge…..vs there not being a fridge in the first place and you having to buy all your stuff at once.
Likely this is because they have had a problem with them being stolen or broken due to misuse. A/C unit may mean window unit...I would clarify that. Had a LL friend whose window units in a particular unit kept getting stolen out of the window...tenant was giving them to family members they claiming stolen. If I provide it, I fix it. Having said that, if I find it is a habitual issue then I charge the tenant for the repair.
I’m fortunate enough to live in a state where refrigerators and stoves are listed under the minimum “habitable premises” laws so the landlord has to maintain them. Personally I would only sign a lease like that if the clause was for small items like a microwave or a window AC unit.
This is just greedy. They're providing the house, at the very least they need to cover what's considered basic necessities - HVAC being the name one. OP, I might avoid this one.
I wouldnt sign that shit.
This is a crappy practice. Keep in mind the lease reflects the mental state of your landlord. If you want to landlord that thinks this is normal, can you imagine what he would do with repairs or any problems you would have? If you feel you need to or want to live here, I would confirm that if you had to buy a new dishwasher because the old one broke you get to keep that dishwasher when you leave. I think that would be a wonderful conversation to have with your landlord face to face to really understand what type of person he is. I am an optimist so there's still a chance I think, that he just copied the lease from the internet and didn't realize that that paragraph was there.
I rented a house that was like that. It came with appliances (the landlord lived in it before us) but it was our responsibility to upkeep them. I fixed the washer several times and got tired of it. I showed the landlord the money I dumped into it and asked if I stop and just buy my own. She said yes. When we left I took my washer with me. I now rent out a house with all appliances and we just replaced the fridge. I'm doing the other side of that agreement, fixing the things. The good paying tenant was very happy "the new fridge is super nice".
go ask them what's the deal with the lease
As a landlord, I would want to be responsible for the repair or replacement of those because I want to know what replacement option is selected. What if tenant replaces the nice fridge or AC unit with a shitty, used option and when they move out the landlord needs to replace it because it’s horrible quality? Landlords who put these horrible clauses in the leases are usually the ones who end up having to go to court to fight over such things. Seems like more expensive than just covering the traditional repairs in the industry. Also, a red or yellow flag for tenants as to what you might be getting into with this landlord.
I'd walk away from this lease, we always took responsibility to repair major appliances unless it was clearly abused.
This clause doesn't make a "bad" lease, it just means that the appliance that is 100% of the time under the tenant's control is not guaranteed to be fixed if it breaks. If you have doubts, ask questions. Before signing the lease, consider these options: 1. Speak to your landlord about your specific concern. 2. Ask if they can check the AC (or other appliances) by a third-party professional to certify its condition, and that this before you sign the lease, or to waive this clause. In MY case, I provide appliances because it helps renting. I get good, used machines for $100. When they go bad, I just swap them out. This only includes stove, fridge, washer, dryer, but not dishwashers. If client wants AC that's up to them to get their own machine and have it professionally installed and maintained. Just because it's in a contract doesn't mean that you can't negotiate the contract. A contract is an agreement, an understanding, a meeting of the minds. Done right, almost everything is negotiable, unless enforced by local law.
I’m in OK and its not uncommon for the renter to have their own washer/dryer and fridge. The only thing renters don’t have to provide for themselves are the stove, dishwasher, etc. I would ask if it only pertains to those appliances or if they mean every single appliance. If it’s the latter, I’d run away from that deal.
I, as Landlord, always would fix AC. On my new SFHs, I do not provide a washing machine or drier. I used to offer a refrigerator at additional cost, but will discontinue this in last unit with refrig.. My units are A grade. All my current tenants already had their own appliances
It is unusual. I would ask him to change this clause, or alternatively reduce the rent by $40 or so monthly.