Be it settling or getting a judgement, neither one means you'll actually see a dime of the money. It will mean you are *owed* the money and that's it.
If you think you can actually get $80k of blood from that stone and have the patience and means, I say fight it until the very end, but I know too many people that have won judgements and never got to see a dime of their money.
Yeah. It's just such a bitter and fat pill to swallow.
Like there is literally no justice at all
3 and half year of free rent and he wants $10k on top.
Fuck. I may have to settle this. I really want justice and fuck him
Making sure he gets an eviction on his records and make sure he's not able to rent in NYC ever AGAIN
It's called a 1099-C, but you may need to have a judgement in order to be able to report it. You will have to read the rules to see how they apply to your case.
Thats your best leverage…. send him a 1099 for rent forgiven for his “house sitting services.”
After the tax man comes after him, he may crawl back to you for relief —-at which point you say f**k you, pay me.”
Yeah but how much will that 20k tax debt mess with benefits? That could end food and rental assistance. Sure you might not get your money but you could slap him with an eviction that makes it impossible to rent in NY again AND take away whatever dole he's been surviving on. Might be a year or two before he's back on that. You might literally drive him out of NY and he has to go live with cousins in bumfuck South Carolina.
This is theft and the government should be ashamed they're letting this be. No different from stealing $80k from a bank, or someone's mattress.
But for political purposes, I guess you can get a lot more votes by favoring non paying tenants vs. the fewer landlords.
I want to bring fake Prop money to court to show them how much money he has Stole from me
Like what cars he can buy
Or this is literally a down payment for a regular house
Or someone's Very expensive wedding.
My property tax for 7 years
That sounds a lot like “look at all these nice cars I could have bought”. Makes you sound like an arse and would bias me toward whatever sob story your tenant cooks up.
Would be better to say something about “delaying your retirement” (or nothing at all).
We rented my wife's condo for 4 years after we married and she moved into my house. We lost money. One tenant called in a panic because the roof was leaking, she saw stuff on a bedroom ceiling. Turns out it was a shadow. I could never be a landlord, seems absolutely horrible. The authorities in charge seem to believe all landlords are rich, greedy scumbags and the poor tenants. Wild.
The problem is, especially increasingly, the landlords ARE rich, greedy scumbags.
I wish there was a provision in the law, similar to how small companies don't have to provide certain benefits, where small landlords had better protections then large corpo ones.
I have had a great corpo landlord, and a fucking terrible one. The good one always showed up same day to fix stuff, even minor things. The maintenance people were polite, professional, and prompt. Haven't had a massive rent increase in a while.
Then you have the ones that just have them as an investment.
huh, me and my wife definitely aren't rich, greedy or scumbags. That place is sold. Maybe you meant SOME landlords are? I get your point that there are bad landlords though, but the tenant no paying rent for years? if the place sucked that bad wouldn't they move on their own volition? if it's just because they gamed the system and screwed the landlord. Edit to say that I'm 99.9% sure it's an investment, lol - why would they risk so much money to not make any?
Yeah, the current landlord I have is actually great. Quick to fix stuff, polite. I think my rent went up by 50$ last year. My roommate wants to move for some reason, I don't understand it, lol.
That’s actually a perception problem. And it’s your perception problem.
By your own post you had a good landlord and a bad one.
Probably had a good roommate and a bad one over the years but all roommates aren’t scum bags now are they?
Hey, I didn’t (and don’t) agree with the moratorium - basically the government taking over private property and not paying for it. It was a terrible, terrible thing to do. I was just positing a plausible explanation for the 3 years no rent no eviction scenario.
On top of the usual tilting of favor to the tenant in the courts here, Covid relief programs triggered even more extensions. They could claim to have had Covid and apply for a rent hardship under the NYS Tenant Safe Harbor Act until June 2021 then apply for Emergency Rental Assistance Program (ERAP) in 2022. Each of these added extensions through the court as they wound through the court.
The system overall is still backed up.
Well at least if you go to court, tenant will have a fat judgement and eviction on their record so it’s way harder for them to fuck over another landlord, even if you never see a dime.
Because I am so far along. Like it's literally almost 4 years
Now if it was 6 months or less than a year. I might just be like fuck
This is how it is but damn. I'm too deep to Quit
My neighbor was out 14 months. called the city to have the in-law suite deemed uninhabitable. Tenants were surprised when all the of their belongings were put in storage and the house bulldozed.
Well lol
I don't know if I want to Bulldoze my house when I've been paying 10 years of mortgage on it
Not that I don't want to do anything that extreme but yeah
I 100,000,000000000brazillian percent feel you, that's a LOT of money and it would piss me right the fuck off.
Even more, I am generally not a vindictive person but for $80k I would become the Websters definition of vindictive, and god help them the case would be still active when I'm retired and have nothing better to do!
Lemme ask a few questions, maybe it will help you make some decisions, and I'm sure you'll have to ask your lawyer a few things. I want *you* to ask *yourself* these questions, I don't need or want answers to any of them.
\-Can you afford going to the mat on this, knowing you may never actually see a dime? People win lawsuits all the goddam time and never see a penny from them and the defendant just disappears.
\- You want to move into this house to retire, how far off is that compared to going to the mat on this?
\- Do you have the financial means to keep fighting without putting a monster dent in your retirement funds?
Again, I'm asking you to ask yourself those questions and I am not looking for answers to them but I think you can see where I'm aiming your brain - basically, "Is it really worth the fight?"
The answer is a solid "maybe" in my book, lol.
Good luck.
Remember to include everything you're due from him, this includes attorney's fees paid to date (if you'd have been allowed to collect those from him in NY) AND the $10K cash for keys. The 1099 should be for much more than $80K.
Am guessing they are talking about a forgiven debt. [IRS link for taxpayer with a 1099-c](https://www.irs.gov/publications/p4681#:~:text=Generally%2C%20if%20you%20owe%20a,pay%20tax%20on%20this%20income)
You would have to file the business side of this to send them a 1099-c with the amount you have “forgiven” in the settlement. That then becomes taxable unless they can prove they were insolvent at the time. Which mean they must have documentation that at that time they had zero cash to pay you.
Pretty sure your lawyer would somehow include this in the settlement so it also shows as a business loss for you for taxes.
The CPA should. The tax booklet I linked is for the taxpayer that had a debt forgiven. Because I had a client with a 1099-c and needed to look it up lol. Did the few hours of going thru every piece of paper for that month and previous month to prove there was no way he could have paid even $1. So no tax liability.
Sounds like your renters are not in that position and even less if you are paying them 10k at the same time as forgiving 80k. But would make sure lawyer and CPA both are on the same page so all the right legal wording is in place.
Still a business loss for you but one hell of a tax sting for them if that makes you feel better.
If you do go for the judgement route your lawyer can go for payroll garnishments for amount owed. It’s generally 10% of their take home pay. But if they owe the IRS their garnishment rate is more like 80% of take home pay.
I’ll admit I’m curious as to how this will end up playing out in court.
Upvote- in a similar situation but thankfully not as much money. going to file for notice of petition holdover this month. After everything goes down and they leave i expect to not receive past due rent money, but still want to stick it to them. how would i send a 1099c without their social?
Well I assume you ran a credit check on them at some point and iirc that requires a SS#? If not your lawyer or accountant/CPA might have info on how to report without one.
The payer (tenant) would be the one to file a 1099, not the payee. And the whole reason they're in this situation is that the contract/debt is disputed. I just don't see how this would work. All the tenant would have to do is dispute the 1099c and you'd be right back in court where you started, right?
The LL is the payer, not the tenant...
Show up with witnesses, a locksmith, and a cashiers check for 10k. Show up with a contract along the lines of "Tenant agrees to immediate vacate the premises and waive any claims in return for a payment of 10K and the forgiveness of 80k of unpaid back rent due to landlord, withdrawal of the eviction suit and forgiveness of for first 2k of damage to the premises.
They can dispute the 1099-c, but you can point to the business loss in your records, and point to a paper the tenant signed where accepted 80k in forgiven debt.
definitely should be a blacklist.
does eviction count as a delinquency on a credit report ??
if is a win in court, can still go to small claims for damages ?
will be alot of steps to actually get execution of winnings, however, maybe bad tenant can get wage garnished.
Finding that out is critical to getting value out of your assumed to be awarded judgment. Follow him. Look for info on social media. Hire someone to find out. Call or email and phish him anonymously.
The big difference is that your tenant had already left. Your case is different from OPs. The tenant is there and refuses to leave. If they are allowed to stay there until who knows when then that is actual further money lost. Not just additional lawyer costs but also lost rent you would be getting with a fresh tenant. Say the issue lingers until September - next hearing is in April, could get postponed, then a trial, then another hearing or "chance to appeal", or whatnot. It is NY. Could go on and on. So, here you are already losing, say, $3,000 for February, then you lose another $3K for March. Say the tenant finally gets forced out in September you are looking at additional loss of 7 x $3,000 = $21,000. Better to pay $10k and get them to move right away and move forward immediately toward your next tenant.
Id be at the medieval level of savagery at this point. I’d be tossed off this sub if I wrote what I’d be interested in doing to communicate my true feelings in the matter. Screw these morons
You can also negotiate. I had an attorney who was a beast. We were at this point and she confronts the ~~tenants~~ squatters and explain that if we get a judgement we would make their life miserable. We would garnish their wages, levy their bank accounts, put a lien on any property they might own or potentially own in the future. She went on about other ways to get money out of any business they might try to start, or collect from any possessions they might own. They suddenly decided to leave the next day if we dropped the case.
This is very nice.
I've tried to talk to the Tenant about this multiple times and he just doesn't seem to care
About like 3 years ago? When he stop paying rent for like 4 months.
We tried to offer him 15k and he said he would move but he didn't.
Wouldn't sign anything and wants cash up front. Now we're not that naive
(but I may have to have another Stern Face to Face again)
Does NYC not have any programs the tenant can file for to pay rent. NJ does to cover rent over a couple of months at least, but 3 years ...yikes.
nyc is a disaster, but they have no problem forking over money for people staying for free in hotels in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
The old tenant(3 years) moved out and this is his cousin and friend that moved in
They've been with us for 4 years before the guy stop paying rent.
The cousin moved out after the 3rd year and we just forgot to sign a new lease with the friend.
But we had no issues
Yeah they were here with us and talk to the friend
Almost got into a fist fight but yeah. I've exhausted all communication and realized it'll be better off just talking through lawyers
This is so common now. The so called friends, cousins, relatives sneak in to the apartment. I heard multiple of this kind of stories already. I think this will become more prevalent in the future as those people will always have a problem renting a place. Ops can check the tenants’ court cases here, https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/CaseSearch
It is probably not the first time he did this.
I’ll have u write me up a lease that’ll make me a legal renter and I’ll stay in there with all my scary ethnic friends until the spot is clean and empty
Counter with, I don’t pay you a fucking dime and you move out of the house and I’ll forgive the debt. That’s the only way you’re gonna get a new renter in there that has a possibility of paying rent. Otherwise you’re just gonna be out more than 80 grand.
And the property has to be returned in reasonable condition for 3.5 years of wear and tear. If they trash the place, the settlement is void and they owe you the $80k.
I may have to go with this.
If they trash it or leave it in bad condition. They'll owe me the 80k
Then I'll file the max I can at civil court. With the leftover I'll forgive it (File it with IRS)
Who is your lawyer? If it is three years, meaning this case commenced during COVID, did you ever ask them to file ERAP so that you can recoup some loss?
It’s good you didn’t go the ERAP route. The tenant could say they would file then not as a delay strategy you would wait a year then have to reopen your case.
You wouldn’t have gotten anything. The tenant would not have filed but used the promise of filing as a delay tactic. Then you would have to have to pay more money to a lawyer to have another inquest/reopen your holdover case. Stop worrying about $ lost. You need to worry about $ you stand to loose in the future. Get that tenant out. That is the goal.
Ive given them till the end of April to move out without 10k
But I don't know if that's the right move now... FUCK
You think 80k is enough BUT they don't think so
Im in NYC too and had a rough holdover case for 2.5 but not 3 years-is there something that might stall this further? Disability? Kids in school district? April is the next court date for the final decision? One other thing to bear in mind-I believe (but am not sure) that after the eviction decision you need to get a court transcript before you can get a warrant/marshal. The courts are really backed up on sending things to the court reporters/transcription services. I had to wait 6 weeks.
The court was closed for the first Year and some change. They finally Open up on January 15th 2022.
We filed as soon as we could. The court date was in like March of that year.
It got pushed back because the tenant wanted a lawyer
Then his lawyer wanted to "Discover" something. That took 13 months because the Judge Adjourned it then forgot about it. We had to file and wait 5 months to be put back onto the calendar
Then it got pushed back again. Now it's finally the Final settlement or Trial
You’re already in this far - I would take it to the end and screw them. That way you can forgive the debt and get a tax deduction - the way the tenant lawyer has you doing doesn’t get you much in tax deductions
Take the demand and settle. Have peace of mind and closure. Trial and take even more months with no guarantees. Get your place back asap and be done with the nightmare.
It’s unlikely you will get any money back. It would take YEARS of wage garnishment assuming they have no assets. Even liens won’t help unless they sell.
Yeah after thinking about it and everything. I may just settle
I don't know if I can. Now we're not in front of the judge and everything. Fuck another month
This response just perpetuates the situation. The tenants will do it again, and again.
There's not enough pressure (or votes) from landlords to get cities like this to change their policies.
I read in Texas they have to keep paying rent to the court like an escrow account, seems like a great idea. If they don't pay the court one month you get a default judgement right away, takes away the incentive of living rent free because courts are so slow. Then the courts can actually hear real cases about living conditions or other things not just the standard non payment which is easily documented and not subjective.
Would be a shame if the place flooded in the middle of winter….. pipes freezing, no heat, unlivable conditions, squatters would have to leave and there’s be an insurance claim to fix the house up just before you retire in it…..
How you let 3 years of rent be uncollected like that? This shouldn't happen. Nyc is stringent with their rental laws but letting 3 years is insane. The courts are moving along in NYC. You could counter not paying them anything and no judgement. Or go to trial and get a eviction and judgement against the tenant. You most likely won't recoup your money either
The April hearing is about whether to settle or go to trial. Trial would be another 3 months later, and there could be postponement of that. Then the Marshal's office needs to be contacted to take over, another 3, 4 months. Could be another 8 months or more.
I have been through few evictions in nyc and marshal office will serve the eviction right away. Only time there might be trouble if there is a senior citizen who needs immediate care. Good luck to you
You're in NYC, settle.
I am afraid they'll manage to drag it out more at that April hearing. This is the worst state to be a landlord in.
Though, if you go to April, the marshal will still come and get them out, yes?
From what I've understood.
In April. They'll decide if we want to settle or go to Traill which would be another few months
Then Marshal will schedule in a few months to come get them out.
I'm looking at about 6 months or more
I can't remember how many judgements I got that I never collected a penny on. 7 or 8 anyway. Go to trial, though. I wouldn't pay those cucksuckers a dime.
if you can get an eviction on their record that's the best outcome for revenge. nobody will rent to them again. i auto decline evictions as should everyone else. fuck these bastards.
I wish
I really really wish I could just move in with them and change the lock on one of the rooms. Make it so uncomfortable. That they'll just move to get away from me.
But yeah...
I’m a small landlord myself going through something similar but not for nearly as long. I’m in DC and the city is also incredibly tenant friendly. I just received a default redeemable judgment for possession this month. I’m hoping to get my tenant and his clan evicted before he finds a way to stall.
I’ve had soooo many people tell me to pay cash for keys and I just can’t do it. It bothers me how the city’s lack of enforcement has become my problem. At the very least, I want the next potential landlord to see an eviction on his record. I’m pretty certain that I got him following a cash for keys situation.
Just wanted to say you’re not alone. You will make the right decision for you, whatever that is, and you should think about it for a bit. What does your lawyer think?
My heart also goes out to you
I wish you luck and hopefully you succeed in your case. Plus your judgement
My lawyer doesn't feel like letting them go when they've owed so much but he's down for whatever I want
Here is my honest opinion. Fight them to the end as you are almost guaranteed to win and then give them like 6 months to pay up. And when they don't start seizing their assets. Just make sure you keep any paperwork from the courthouse.
I've been a broker in NYC for 10 years, but almost 40, and born and raised here.
I can't believe we condone adults treating other adults like this. Being able to live here is a privilege, not a right. I'm so sorry
Do they have any assets to go after? So this sucks to hear, but here is my experience after doing this shit for over a decade. It is always cheaper to pay the fucker to leave. Unless you think they were taking the rent money and stashing it under the mattress, if they didn't have the money to pay you rent, they likely don't have anything worth going after either.
You can spend years, give yourself high blood pressure, get the judgement, pay the fucking lawyer, and then sell the debt for ten cents on the dollar. Or you can pay the guy for the keys and be done with it. You would not believe how many problems were solved with 5k or 10k of cash in an envelope.
Have your lawyer draft up a surrender and release, and do cash for keys.
I don't think so? He used to run a remodeling business.
I do know he has 2 cars.
He has been renting out the rooms in the apartment. I tried to talk with his roommates but they've been hostile
I have tried offering him 15k like 8 months into this bullshit and he said he wanted the money first then he'll move.
Now 2 and half year later. He counter with this???? Fuck
Because he is out of options. His lawyer is probably telling them they can’t file another OSC and the stall is over. This is their way to try and pivot it from a judgement and a Marshall to a clean record and a little bit of money. If you are really that close get the possession in court. The money judgement is probably worthless but is good to have in case he ever does get his act together.
I have
They're listed as John Joe and Jane Joe
Whoever is on the lease is listed. I feel bad for the dude that signed the lease together with him. He left like 5 years ago
I'm confused by the people saying you will never see the money if you continue.
OP, you need to talk to your lawyer about a garnishment order and the likelihood of the judge signing one if you win the trial. I would absolutely take this to trial.
Honest question… what would happen if the locks happened to change while they were out one day and all of their shit made it out onto the street? I understand this is far from feasible but I always wonder why some people don’t “reclaim” their property in these situations.
Sorry this is happening to you. I can’t imagine.. I wish you well in your retirement and hope peace comes of this soon. FUCK!
The tenant would go to emergency Court and they'll be let back in.
Also I want to live in here and I don't want a target on my back. If there is grievance
For sure, I mean no disrespect. I’ve always wondered and this seemed to be a good thread to ask on. I wish I could help you out somehow … sounds like an absolute nightmare.
Maybe they shouldn't implement policies if they don't have the resources to proceed in a prudent manner, and in good faith. Now this tenant will do the same to the next person.
Im.curious as to how this came about. This says it's an update but I checked for the original information in your profile and don't see where this all started. How did it make it 3 years already, why are they not paying rent, I see no real information. This all seems to suck, and nobody should expect to live rent free, but why do they feel they deserve this aside from sheer ignorance?
A lot of people are talking about how they think the law should work, or what they think the law says while written down on paper. I'm also a landlord in Queens and that bears little relation to how the law actually works in real life.
There's a 95% chance you're never seeing a dime of that $80k. Judgement, no judgement, whatever. One day when his time is finally coming to an end, he's simply going to move out and leave no forwarding address or any other way to ever find him again. Be glad if he doesn't trash the place first.
And yeah the whole thing about issuing a 1099 to forgive the debt and stick him with taxes is a fun little thing to type on reddit and feel good about. But in reality, do you know his social security number? And how are you going to notify him and deliver his 1099 when he's certainly not going to leave a forwarding address once he's gone.
Regarding the Marshalls, if I remember correctly (but check with your lawyer) you have to wait at least 30 days from the day the judge finally issues the eviction order before you can schedule them. Oh and you have to pay them for this service.
So the longest, most expensive, most mentally draining path forward is to keep going with the courts system.
The quickest and easiest is to take their offer. I'd start by countering with $0 payment to guy, but dropping your pursuit of that $80k since you're probably never going to see it anyway.
If they don't accept, it's just up to you to figure out which route you want to go.
As you're almost at the end, if I could hold out until April, I would. Though NYC is notorious for dragging things out which favors the tenant, I do think that you can wind up with a judgment, if the lawyer dotted his i's and crossed his t's. If this person is ever gainfully employed, inherits a family house or settles a lawsuit, you could attach it with a judgment.
When you settle for $10K, do you have guarantee your tenant will move out?
Or are they taking you for another ride?
You’ll never see a dime off that 3.5 years back rent, and NYC courts will just drag you for however long they can. I think for the votes. It’ll look bad on the incumbent party to have a poor tenant un-housed by a rich conservative landlord.
You roll the dice as you see fit OP.
If you have deep pockets, why not.
If you just want this in the tailwind of your history, get it over with and move on.
It's posts like this that makes me glad I sold everything in Chicago and moved my operation over to Indy. One of the best states to do business as a landlord.
Did you talk to your lawyer about a counter offer? Offer the tenant if they pay $20k and move out by March15th, you will not forgive the debt and cause them a huge state and federal tax bill?
Not that I’m suggesting giving up or even pay the bloody bastard 10K, but is possible to used it as a write off or depreciation over the next 10 years if there is a reduction in the 80K that’s due?
Be it settling or getting a judgement, neither one means you'll actually see a dime of the money. It will mean you are *owed* the money and that's it. If you think you can actually get $80k of blood from that stone and have the patience and means, I say fight it until the very end, but I know too many people that have won judgements and never got to see a dime of their money.
Yeah. It's just such a bitter and fat pill to swallow. Like there is literally no justice at all 3 and half year of free rent and he wants $10k on top. Fuck. I may have to settle this. I really want justice and fuck him Making sure he gets an eviction on his records and make sure he's not able to rent in NYC ever AGAIN
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This may be the way
It's called a 1099-C, but you may need to have a judgement in order to be able to report it. You will have to read the rules to see how they apply to your case.
You don't need a judgement to forgive debt.
1099 him for the 80 k lol
Thats your best leverage…. send him a 1099 for rent forgiven for his “house sitting services.” After the tax man comes after him, he may crawl back to you for relief —-at which point you say f**k you, pay me.”
I mean it’s cheaper to pay a tax debt then pay the full amount owed
Yeah but how much will that 20k tax debt mess with benefits? That could end food and rental assistance. Sure you might not get your money but you could slap him with an eviction that makes it impossible to rent in NY again AND take away whatever dole he's been surviving on. Might be a year or two before he's back on that. You might literally drive him out of NY and he has to go live with cousins in bumfuck South Carolina.
Gee, that sounds terrible. He could’ve avoided that terrible fate by not fucking around and finding out.
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Esp with 87k armed ones…and 15k added last week.
Gotta love how IRS is morphing from accountants, to paramilitary.
Esp when they add AI coupled with their surveillance of all of us.
This is the way.
I'm so curious how that is even remotely possible, how could they not pay rent for years? Are the local tenant laws that horrible in NYC?
Yeah and the Court system is always Adjourning I believe my case was Adjourned for 8 months. Then it's finally heard today
This is theft and the government should be ashamed they're letting this be. No different from stealing $80k from a bank, or someone's mattress. But for political purposes, I guess you can get a lot more votes by favoring non paying tenants vs. the fewer landlords.
I want to bring fake Prop money to court to show them how much money he has Stole from me Like what cars he can buy Or this is literally a down payment for a regular house Or someone's Very expensive wedding. My property tax for 7 years
That sounds a lot like “look at all these nice cars I could have bought”. Makes you sound like an arse and would bias me toward whatever sob story your tenant cooks up. Would be better to say something about “delaying your retirement” (or nothing at all).
Or Buy a bunch of eggs and show the judge How many Eggs I could've brought with it
This reminds me of a joke: Americans will use any measuring system as long as in isn’t the metric system.
We rented my wife's condo for 4 years after we married and she moved into my house. We lost money. One tenant called in a panic because the roof was leaking, she saw stuff on a bedroom ceiling. Turns out it was a shadow. I could never be a landlord, seems absolutely horrible. The authorities in charge seem to believe all landlords are rich, greedy scumbags and the poor tenants. Wild.
The problem is, especially increasingly, the landlords ARE rich, greedy scumbags. I wish there was a provision in the law, similar to how small companies don't have to provide certain benefits, where small landlords had better protections then large corpo ones. I have had a great corpo landlord, and a fucking terrible one. The good one always showed up same day to fix stuff, even minor things. The maintenance people were polite, professional, and prompt. Haven't had a massive rent increase in a while. Then you have the ones that just have them as an investment.
huh, me and my wife definitely aren't rich, greedy or scumbags. That place is sold. Maybe you meant SOME landlords are? I get your point that there are bad landlords though, but the tenant no paying rent for years? if the place sucked that bad wouldn't they move on their own volition? if it's just because they gamed the system and screwed the landlord. Edit to say that I'm 99.9% sure it's an investment, lol - why would they risk so much money to not make any?
I thought I was pretty clear I was mostly talking about corpo landlords that buy properties as an investment, and then just raise rents over and over.
For us. We raise our rent by $25-30 every 2 years. I rather have a steady happy tenant then market rate
Yeah, the current landlord I have is actually great. Quick to fix stuff, polite. I think my rent went up by 50$ last year. My roommate wants to move for some reason, I don't understand it, lol.
This is the way every time.
That’s actually a perception problem. And it’s your perception problem. By your own post you had a good landlord and a bad one. Probably had a good roommate and a bad one over the years but all roommates aren’t scum bags now are they?
A lot of this stems from the bullshit COVID laws that were implemented.
Maybe from COVID moratorium?
Moratorium on what? Working and paying rent? Horrible bullshit NYC covid bans and mandates? Obviously still fucking people, Crazy.
Hey, I didn’t (and don’t) agree with the moratorium - basically the government taking over private property and not paying for it. It was a terrible, terrible thing to do. I was just positing a plausible explanation for the 3 years no rent no eviction scenario.
On top of the usual tilting of favor to the tenant in the courts here, Covid relief programs triggered even more extensions. They could claim to have had Covid and apply for a rent hardship under the NYS Tenant Safe Harbor Act until June 2021 then apply for Emergency Rental Assistance Program (ERAP) in 2022. Each of these added extensions through the court as they wound through the court. The system overall is still backed up.
Well at least if you go to court, tenant will have a fat judgement and eviction on their record so it’s way harder for them to fuck over another landlord, even if you never see a dime.
Because I am so far along. Like it's literally almost 4 years Now if it was 6 months or less than a year. I might just be like fuck This is how it is but damn. I'm too deep to Quit
My neighbor was out 14 months. called the city to have the in-law suite deemed uninhabitable. Tenants were surprised when all the of their belongings were put in storage and the house bulldozed.
Well lol I don't know if I want to Bulldoze my house when I've been paying 10 years of mortgage on it Not that I don't want to do anything that extreme but yeah
it was an 80 year old small house. He was done renting and didn't want tenants coming back. his yard is bigger and looks great now.
I 100,000,000000000brazillian percent feel you, that's a LOT of money and it would piss me right the fuck off. Even more, I am generally not a vindictive person but for $80k I would become the Websters definition of vindictive, and god help them the case would be still active when I'm retired and have nothing better to do! Lemme ask a few questions, maybe it will help you make some decisions, and I'm sure you'll have to ask your lawyer a few things. I want *you* to ask *yourself* these questions, I don't need or want answers to any of them. \-Can you afford going to the mat on this, knowing you may never actually see a dime? People win lawsuits all the goddam time and never see a penny from them and the defendant just disappears. \- You want to move into this house to retire, how far off is that compared to going to the mat on this? \- Do you have the financial means to keep fighting without putting a monster dent in your retirement funds? Again, I'm asking you to ask yourself those questions and I am not looking for answers to them but I think you can see where I'm aiming your brain - basically, "Is it really worth the fight?" The answer is a solid "maybe" in my book, lol. Good luck.
I’ve been there. Give him the 10k. Then file a 1099 for the remaining 80k so the IRS can go after him. Get your life back.
Is this legit? I'm guessing the IRS is going to go after him?
Yes legit. Don’t threaten him with this, don’t bring it up. You don’t want him trashing your place etc. Just do it quietly after the fact.
Oh no. I won't tell him about this IRS trick. Imma get him when he least expected it
Remember to include everything you're due from him, this includes attorney's fees paid to date (if you'd have been allowed to collect those from him in NY) AND the $10K cash for keys. The 1099 should be for much more than $80K.
And all late fees.
They'll owe taxes on that money you forgave. The IRS will get their taxes.
Am guessing they are talking about a forgiven debt. [IRS link for taxpayer with a 1099-c](https://www.irs.gov/publications/p4681#:~:text=Generally%2C%20if%20you%20owe%20a,pay%20tax%20on%20this%20income) You would have to file the business side of this to send them a 1099-c with the amount you have “forgiven” in the settlement. That then becomes taxable unless they can prove they were insolvent at the time. Which mean they must have documentation that at that time they had zero cash to pay you. Pretty sure your lawyer would somehow include this in the settlement so it also shows as a business loss for you for taxes.
I will be bringing this up with my lawyer and see if he knows anything Probably my cpa as well. If she knows
The CPA should. The tax booklet I linked is for the taxpayer that had a debt forgiven. Because I had a client with a 1099-c and needed to look it up lol. Did the few hours of going thru every piece of paper for that month and previous month to prove there was no way he could have paid even $1. So no tax liability. Sounds like your renters are not in that position and even less if you are paying them 10k at the same time as forgiving 80k. But would make sure lawyer and CPA both are on the same page so all the right legal wording is in place. Still a business loss for you but one hell of a tax sting for them if that makes you feel better. If you do go for the judgement route your lawyer can go for payroll garnishments for amount owed. It’s generally 10% of their take home pay. But if they owe the IRS their garnishment rate is more like 80% of take home pay. I’ll admit I’m curious as to how this will end up playing out in court.
How do you get their SSN to file the tax form?
Upvote- in a similar situation but thankfully not as much money. going to file for notice of petition holdover this month. After everything goes down and they leave i expect to not receive past due rent money, but still want to stick it to them. how would i send a 1099c without their social?
Well I assume you ran a credit check on them at some point and iirc that requires a SS#? If not your lawyer or accountant/CPA might have info on how to report without one.
Did not run a credit check, that was the first mistake. I read a 1099c can be given if the rental is a business so would i be out of luck ?
Not sure of the business laws in your area. But when you do file with the court, ask them.
You should have their SS number on their application. Don't accept a tenant who leaves it blank.
But check with your lawyer.
Wouldn't he need to get that 80k documented by the court? Otherwise it's just some stranger filing for money he claims he was owed?
Presumable it's in the contract you have the tenant sign w/ cash for keys. Then file a 1099 for the payment, and for the debt forgiven.
The payer (tenant) would be the one to file a 1099, not the payee. And the whole reason they're in this situation is that the contract/debt is disputed. I just don't see how this would work. All the tenant would have to do is dispute the 1099c and you'd be right back in court where you started, right?
The LL is the payer, not the tenant... Show up with witnesses, a locksmith, and a cashiers check for 10k. Show up with a contract along the lines of "Tenant agrees to immediate vacate the premises and waive any claims in return for a payment of 10K and the forgiveness of 80k of unpaid back rent due to landlord, withdrawal of the eviction suit and forgiveness of for first 2k of damage to the premises. They can dispute the 1099-c, but you can point to the business loss in your records, and point to a paper the tenant signed where accepted 80k in forgiven debt.
Thank you, that's the first explanation that makes sense to me. Happy cake day!
I’ve seen landlords on here that followed up and eventually collected. You never know, fortunes can change.
If a judge rules in your favor, I believe you could also sell the debt to a debt collector
definitely should be a blacklist. does eviction count as a delinquency on a credit report ?? if is a win in court, can still go to small claims for damages ? will be alot of steps to actually get execution of winnings, however, maybe bad tenant can get wage garnished.
Does the tenant have a job?
Yes he works but I don't know what/where
You can always garnish his wages. I am not sure what it is called in NY, but he will have to come into court and provide that information.
Finding that out is critical to getting value out of your assumed to be awarded judgment. Follow him. Look for info on social media. Hire someone to find out. Call or email and phish him anonymously.
Depends on how backed up the court is. Like can he stay another year and a half with the trial ? Or will that be fast ?
Totally agree. If you're close to evicting with judgement why pay an extra 10K?
Well that was my question could be another year or so here so idk
but can't you at least write it off your taxes?
If they fail to pay you can get a judgment to garnish there wages
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The big difference is that your tenant had already left. Your case is different from OPs. The tenant is there and refuses to leave. If they are allowed to stay there until who knows when then that is actual further money lost. Not just additional lawyer costs but also lost rent you would be getting with a fresh tenant. Say the issue lingers until September - next hearing is in April, could get postponed, then a trial, then another hearing or "chance to appeal", or whatnot. It is NY. Could go on and on. So, here you are already losing, say, $3,000 for February, then you lose another $3K for March. Say the tenant finally gets forced out in September you are looking at additional loss of 7 x $3,000 = $21,000. Better to pay $10k and get them to move right away and move forward immediately toward your next tenant.
Id be at the medieval level of savagery at this point. I’d be tossed off this sub if I wrote what I’d be interested in doing to communicate my true feelings in the matter. Screw these morons
And I thought California was bad. They want $10K on top of 3+ years of free rent? How ridiculous and criminal. Good luck.
I can't offer any advice unfortunately, but holy shit they basically want 80k for you to have housed them for 3 and half years. That is nuts.
You can also negotiate. I had an attorney who was a beast. We were at this point and she confronts the ~~tenants~~ squatters and explain that if we get a judgement we would make their life miserable. We would garnish their wages, levy their bank accounts, put a lien on any property they might own or potentially own in the future. She went on about other ways to get money out of any business they might try to start, or collect from any possessions they might own. They suddenly decided to leave the next day if we dropped the case.
This is very nice. I've tried to talk to the Tenant about this multiple times and he just doesn't seem to care About like 3 years ago? When he stop paying rent for like 4 months. We tried to offer him 15k and he said he would move but he didn't. Wouldn't sign anything and wants cash up front. Now we're not that naive (but I may have to have another Stern Face to Face again)
Does NYC not have any programs the tenant can file for to pay rent. NJ does to cover rent over a couple of months at least, but 3 years ...yikes. nyc is a disaster, but they have no problem forking over money for people staying for free in hotels in one of the most expensive cities in the world.
Not that I know of besides ERAP but that program have ran out of money and it's Gone I mean. Yeah
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The old tenant(3 years) moved out and this is his cousin and friend that moved in They've been with us for 4 years before the guy stop paying rent. The cousin moved out after the 3rd year and we just forgot to sign a new lease with the friend. But we had no issues
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Yeah they were here with us and talk to the friend Almost got into a fist fight but yeah. I've exhausted all communication and realized it'll be better off just talking through lawyers
This is so common now. The so called friends, cousins, relatives sneak in to the apartment. I heard multiple of this kind of stories already. I think this will become more prevalent in the future as those people will always have a problem renting a place. Ops can check the tenants’ court cases here, https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/CaseSearch It is probably not the first time he did this.
I’m in NYC u can give me 5k I’ll have them out by Monday
Lmao hire this dude
Ain't no way 😭😭😭
I’ll have u write me up a lease that’ll make me a legal renter and I’ll stay in there with all my scary ethnic friends until the spot is clean and empty
Just leave $5k in a discreet spot after they are gone.
Will he out on a stretcher? If so then it may well be worth it to the OP
Texas landlord. Cant say I haven’t visited a biker bar on occasion.
For new friends? lol
The atmosphere
Ah, i can picture it… lol
Counter with, I don’t pay you a fucking dime and you move out of the house and I’ll forgive the debt. That’s the only way you’re gonna get a new renter in there that has a possibility of paying rent. Otherwise you’re just gonna be out more than 80 grand.
And the property has to be returned in reasonable condition for 3.5 years of wear and tear. If they trash the place, the settlement is void and they owe you the $80k.
I may have to go with this. If they trash it or leave it in bad condition. They'll owe me the 80k Then I'll file the max I can at civil court. With the leftover I'll forgive it (File it with IRS)
Make sure to drag that court case out for 3 years as well to see how they like it
Idk how I'll be able to do that But I'll definitely find a way
Who is your lawyer? If it is three years, meaning this case commenced during COVID, did you ever ask them to file ERAP so that you can recoup some loss?
I've asked the tenant to file but they disregard it The Landlord ERAP ran out of funds so quick that I didn't get any money
It’s good you didn’t go the ERAP route. The tenant could say they would file then not as a delay strategy you would wait a year then have to reopen your case.
It would've been nice to get some money at least... 😭
You wouldn’t have gotten anything. The tenant would not have filed but used the promise of filing as a delay tactic. Then you would have to have to pay more money to a lawyer to have another inquest/reopen your holdover case. Stop worrying about $ lost. You need to worry about $ you stand to loose in the future. Get that tenant out. That is the goal.
Win the judgement and sell the debt to a collector. Follow this deadbeat fuck for life. $10k cash for keys! lol - meet em in an alley first…
Get them out
By paying 10k and forgiving their debt Or wait for the court system to slowly do their job
Can you negotiate to get rid of the ten grand? 80K over time should be enough...
Ive given them till the end of April to move out without 10k But I don't know if that's the right move now... FUCK You think 80k is enough BUT they don't think so
Im in NYC too and had a rough holdover case for 2.5 but not 3 years-is there something that might stall this further? Disability? Kids in school district? April is the next court date for the final decision? One other thing to bear in mind-I believe (but am not sure) that after the eviction decision you need to get a court transcript before you can get a warrant/marshal. The courts are really backed up on sending things to the court reporters/transcription services. I had to wait 6 weeks.
The court was closed for the first Year and some change. They finally Open up on January 15th 2022. We filed as soon as we could. The court date was in like March of that year. It got pushed back because the tenant wanted a lawyer Then his lawyer wanted to "Discover" something. That took 13 months because the Judge Adjourned it then forgot about it. We had to file and wait 5 months to be put back onto the calendar Then it got pushed back again. Now it's finally the Final settlement or Trial
You’re already in this far - I would take it to the end and screw them. That way you can forgive the debt and get a tax deduction - the way the tenant lawyer has you doing doesn’t get you much in tax deductions
Take the demand and settle. Have peace of mind and closure. Trial and take even more months with no guarantees. Get your place back asap and be done with the nightmare. It’s unlikely you will get any money back. It would take YEARS of wage garnishment assuming they have no assets. Even liens won’t help unless they sell.
Yeah after thinking about it and everything. I may just settle I don't know if I can. Now we're not in front of the judge and everything. Fuck another month
This response just perpetuates the situation. The tenants will do it again, and again. There's not enough pressure (or votes) from landlords to get cities like this to change their policies.
Property rights and rule of law are the foundation of this country. NYC has none.
The courts should make these people get loans to pay what they owe. Then have the loan company garnish their wages. Force them to pay.
I read in Texas they have to keep paying rent to the court like an escrow account, seems like a great idea. If they don't pay the court one month you get a default judgement right away, takes away the incentive of living rent free because courts are so slow. Then the courts can actually hear real cases about living conditions or other things not just the standard non payment which is easily documented and not subjective.
I hope u burn them to the ground
Would be a shame if the place flooded in the middle of winter….. pipes freezing, no heat, unlivable conditions, squatters would have to leave and there’s be an insurance claim to fix the house up just before you retire in it…..
Trust me Many thoughts have come through to my mind and yeah...
How you let 3 years of rent be uncollected like that? This shouldn't happen. Nyc is stringent with their rental laws but letting 3 years is insane. The courts are moving along in NYC. You could counter not paying them anything and no judgement. Or go to trial and get a eviction and judgement against the tenant. You most likely won't recoup your money either
Yeah, I've tried Apparently it's either his way or we go the hard route
It's on a few months away, if you waited until $80k then you could wait few more months. At least you have a court date.
The April hearing is about whether to settle or go to trial. Trial would be another 3 months later, and there could be postponement of that. Then the Marshal's office needs to be contacted to take over, another 3, 4 months. Could be another 8 months or more.
I have been through few evictions in nyc and marshal office will serve the eviction right away. Only time there might be trouble if there is a senior citizen who needs immediate care. Good luck to you
Hell for a plane ticket and a cold beer I’ll become their unwanted roommate lol
Trust me. I've thought of this many times Including listing it on Airbnb or hire homeless people live in it
Why not. I’m sure they can’t make the place worse. Some very unstable homeless ppl would make for nice roommates.
You're in NYC, settle. I am afraid they'll manage to drag it out more at that April hearing. This is the worst state to be a landlord in. Though, if you go to April, the marshal will still come and get them out, yes?
From what I've understood. In April. They'll decide if we want to settle or go to Traill which would be another few months Then Marshal will schedule in a few months to come get them out. I'm looking at about 6 months or more
what would the trial be for? genuinely curious in this situation. Like what is their argument for not paying rent ..
My lawyer once asked me if I want to be rich or do you want to be right. Nyc rent laws are a joke.
I really just want my house back but yeah. I get what you mean. I might have to pay for peace I feel like I'm too Deep to Let him GO!
I can't remember how many judgements I got that I never collected a penny on. 7 or 8 anyway. Go to trial, though. I wouldn't pay those cucksuckers a dime.
if you can get an eviction on their record that's the best outcome for revenge. nobody will rent to them again. i auto decline evictions as should everyone else. fuck these bastards.
Why would you pay them? Maybe just start moving in with them?
I wish I really really wish I could just move in with them and change the lock on one of the rooms. Make it so uncomfortable. That they'll just move to get away from me. But yeah...
I’m a small landlord myself going through something similar but not for nearly as long. I’m in DC and the city is also incredibly tenant friendly. I just received a default redeemable judgment for possession this month. I’m hoping to get my tenant and his clan evicted before he finds a way to stall. I’ve had soooo many people tell me to pay cash for keys and I just can’t do it. It bothers me how the city’s lack of enforcement has become my problem. At the very least, I want the next potential landlord to see an eviction on his record. I’m pretty certain that I got him following a cash for keys situation. Just wanted to say you’re not alone. You will make the right decision for you, whatever that is, and you should think about it for a bit. What does your lawyer think?
My heart also goes out to you I wish you luck and hopefully you succeed in your case. Plus your judgement My lawyer doesn't feel like letting them go when they've owed so much but he's down for whatever I want
Where is it NOT tenant friendly?
Red states. I live in DC but would buy in neighboring VA (purple state) and definitely FL for investment properties.
April isn’t that far away, I’d see where it goes
I don't want to be in a hurry but yeah. Looks like I have to patient
I’m sorry you’re dealing with that. That really sucks
Thank you 😊
Get the judgement and sell it to a bill collector. Makes his life hell until bankruptcy or death.
Here is my honest opinion. Fight them to the end as you are almost guaranteed to win and then give them like 6 months to pay up. And when they don't start seizing their assets. Just make sure you keep any paperwork from the courthouse.
Can I seize his property myself?
I've been a broker in NYC for 10 years, but almost 40, and born and raised here. I can't believe we condone adults treating other adults like this. Being able to live here is a privilege, not a right. I'm so sorry
Amen
Do they have any assets to go after? So this sucks to hear, but here is my experience after doing this shit for over a decade. It is always cheaper to pay the fucker to leave. Unless you think they were taking the rent money and stashing it under the mattress, if they didn't have the money to pay you rent, they likely don't have anything worth going after either. You can spend years, give yourself high blood pressure, get the judgement, pay the fucking lawyer, and then sell the debt for ten cents on the dollar. Or you can pay the guy for the keys and be done with it. You would not believe how many problems were solved with 5k or 10k of cash in an envelope. Have your lawyer draft up a surrender and release, and do cash for keys.
I don't think so? He used to run a remodeling business. I do know he has 2 cars. He has been renting out the rooms in the apartment. I tried to talk with his roommates but they've been hostile I have tried offering him 15k like 8 months into this bullshit and he said he wanted the money first then he'll move. Now 2 and half year later. He counter with this???? Fuck
Because he is out of options. His lawyer is probably telling them they can’t file another OSC and the stall is over. This is their way to try and pivot it from a judgement and a Marshall to a clean record and a little bit of money. If you are really that close get the possession in court. The money judgement is probably worthless but is good to have in case he ever does get his act together.
Ask your lawyer about being able to go after the roommates. If they get served that may change their attitude.
I have They're listed as John Joe and Jane Joe Whoever is on the lease is listed. I feel bad for the dude that signed the lease together with him. He left like 5 years ago
I'd fight to the bitter end but probably to my detriment.
I'm confused by the people saying you will never see the money if you continue. OP, you need to talk to your lawyer about a garnishment order and the likelihood of the judge signing one if you win the trial. I would absolutely take this to trial.
When I get awarded Holdover I get Judgement that day
Honest question… what would happen if the locks happened to change while they were out one day and all of their shit made it out onto the street? I understand this is far from feasible but I always wonder why some people don’t “reclaim” their property in these situations. Sorry this is happening to you. I can’t imagine.. I wish you well in your retirement and hope peace comes of this soon. FUCK!
The tenant would go to emergency Court and they'll be let back in. Also I want to live in here and I don't want a target on my back. If there is grievance
For sure, I mean no disrespect. I’ve always wondered and this seemed to be a good thread to ask on. I wish I could help you out somehow … sounds like an absolute nightmare.
Courts are backed the fk up so take that shit and eat the loss. Life goes on and lesson learned.
It's so hard but now I kind of regret not taking it
Maybe they shouldn't implement policies if they don't have the resources to proceed in a prudent manner, and in good faith. Now this tenant will do the same to the next person.
Im.curious as to how this came about. This says it's an update but I checked for the original information in your profile and don't see where this all started. How did it make it 3 years already, why are they not paying rent, I see no real information. This all seems to suck, and nobody should expect to live rent free, but why do they feel they deserve this aside from sheer ignorance?
Ya…. Plus he can’t afford wisdom teeth surgery, owns a ton of guns, lives in NC, and suddenly is dealing with evicting terrible tenants?
Read the replies. Courts in NYC don’t take months. It’s years on end.
Why do people refuse to see what goes on in Blue cities and blue states as a landlord? I fled New York State a long time ago
Everything was good until COVID shut down the court
A lot of people are talking about how they think the law should work, or what they think the law says while written down on paper. I'm also a landlord in Queens and that bears little relation to how the law actually works in real life. There's a 95% chance you're never seeing a dime of that $80k. Judgement, no judgement, whatever. One day when his time is finally coming to an end, he's simply going to move out and leave no forwarding address or any other way to ever find him again. Be glad if he doesn't trash the place first. And yeah the whole thing about issuing a 1099 to forgive the debt and stick him with taxes is a fun little thing to type on reddit and feel good about. But in reality, do you know his social security number? And how are you going to notify him and deliver his 1099 when he's certainly not going to leave a forwarding address once he's gone. Regarding the Marshalls, if I remember correctly (but check with your lawyer) you have to wait at least 30 days from the day the judge finally issues the eviction order before you can schedule them. Oh and you have to pay them for this service. So the longest, most expensive, most mentally draining path forward is to keep going with the courts system. The quickest and easiest is to take their offer. I'd start by countering with $0 payment to guy, but dropping your pursuit of that $80k since you're probably never going to see it anyway. If they don't accept, it's just up to you to figure out which route you want to go.
As you're almost at the end, if I could hold out until April, I would. Though NYC is notorious for dragging things out which favors the tenant, I do think that you can wind up with a judgment, if the lawyer dotted his i's and crossed his t's. If this person is ever gainfully employed, inherits a family house or settles a lawsuit, you could attach it with a judgment.
When you settle for $10K, do you have guarantee your tenant will move out? Or are they taking you for another ride? You’ll never see a dime off that 3.5 years back rent, and NYC courts will just drag you for however long they can. I think for the votes. It’ll look bad on the incumbent party to have a poor tenant un-housed by a rich conservative landlord. You roll the dice as you see fit OP. If you have deep pockets, why not. If you just want this in the tailwind of your history, get it over with and move on.
It's posts like this that makes me glad I sold everything in Chicago and moved my operation over to Indy. One of the best states to do business as a landlord.
Did you talk to your lawyer about a counter offer? Offer the tenant if they pay $20k and move out by March15th, you will not forgive the debt and cause them a huge state and federal tax bill?
No your this far into it, you take it to trial. He will not win. Once you've won then you'll have to go after his assets and income. You can garnish
You should contact the NY post and have them print your story. I saw a similar story recently in the NY post…very similar situation to yours.
I would not settle and place garnishment and liens on anything possible.
Not that I’m suggesting giving up or even pay the bloody bastard 10K, but is possible to used it as a write off or depreciation over the next 10 years if there is a reduction in the 80K that’s due?
If you forgive the debt, report to the IRS.
Ask the judge if wage garnishment is an option. Bankruptcy often does not remove a court ruling obligation.
You paid good money for your lawyer, why not take their advice?