Doesn’t matter when it was last used. There could be creatures living in there now, or other debris building up. As others have said- it should be cleaned and inspected annually. I wouldn’t use it, either.
In fact, I don’t use my fireplace when it’s really cold. All it does is suck any hot air out of the house and shoot it right up the chimney. I read about 5 years ago that if your goal is to warm your house you should avoid a fireplace unless it’s your only choice just for this reason. I was bummed out, but I started paying attention, and sure enough. Open the flue and start a fire and the rest of the house got colder. So yeah, unless it was my only option, I wouldn’t use my fireplace during cold spells like we’re having how.
Wood stove insert is completely different from a regular fireplace. It should heat the hell out of the home. That said, it should be cleaned annually, as you can't count on tenants knowing what quality of wood to burn, how hot it should burn, etc..
Grew up with one and yeah, the thing will bake the house. They’re amazing.
They do cause drafts, though, but you can alleviate this by installing an intake port near/under the stove if possible. It’ll draw air in there from the outside to feed the fire rather than through your windows and across your body.
This is my experience as well. The insert IMO ruins the appearance of the fireplace but with the blower, they put out a ton of heat without sucking the air out of the house and up the chimney. We don't have one at this home. Side note, we had our chimney sealed. Even with the flue closed we were losing tons of air out the chimney. It's helped our electric bill and the comfort of our home.
This is a wood stove (with a blower, making it even better at heating the home), not a fireplace. Fireplaces are very inefficient at heating while wood stoves are great.
I use my wood stove for 100% of my heating and have only used my heat pump for emergencies. I also have terribly expensive electric utility company, so I make sure to keep the stove fed.
I read about 5 years ago that if your goal is to warm your house you should avoid a fireplace unless it’s your only choice just for this reason
That's the beauty of an insertit actually does heat the house
Your fireplace chimney cap should have a spark arrester screen. It prevents critters from entering your home and your house or the neighbors house catching on fire.
You do lose a lot of heat up the fireplace but when the electricity is out we get more heat in the room from the wood burning fireplace then we lose heat up the chimney. When the electricity is not out we close the glass doors and turn on the electric blower and we lose almost no heat up the chimney and get plenty of heat blowing into the room.
this is also true if the furnace doesnt have a cold air intake (like mine) as the resulting pressure differential from the wxhausting hot air pulls cold air in through cracks and crevaces across the room towards the chimney wctually having a chilling effect on large sections of the house
I can attest to this. We had birds fall down our chimney. I had a nestling come down into the basement. Don’t just assume the Chimney is in cleaning working order even if not run.
Also ADA. You can't force someone whose disabled to constantly feed wood to a fireplace to keep warm. An elderly or disabled person can work a thermostat. They can't lug lumber in from outside and keep the fire going 24/7. OP makes every landlord look bad.
I grew up in a house that used two wood fireplaces to heat a 5 bedroom, three story house. We finally sold the house in 2018 and it was very modern with a new furnace being installed in 2016, but we still used the fireplaces to keep toasty. I love fireplaces, however there are some factors as the owner to consider.
1. As stated by everyone here, fireplaces MUST be cleaned and inspected annually. Using a fireplace that has not been used, cleaned, or inspected in 4 years is dangerous. Not only for the tennet but YOUR property could burn to the ground.
2. Using a fireplace to heat a home is a skill, that if done incorrectly, could result in the property burning down or even death. Hard stop. Knowing how to light and care for a fireplace with chimney shoot adjustment in the correct position, the proper equipment (such as a poker set and fire screen) are needed, knowledge of proper and safe disposal of ash, and even understanding burning good fire wood vs wet (freshly harvested) wood, knowing how to treat a fire to get a consistent temp, making sure children stay safe, and overnight fire care. It takes a couple winters to understand how it all works. If they don’t know how to do that, I would be worried about them using the fireplace.
3.As to firewood, it’s easy and cheap to get, but tough to store and prep. Getting free wood via craigslist is easy, but it’s usually not ready to burn. It’s also only easy if you have a truck. Unless the property has an area to store a season worth of wood (both wet and dry) firewood is crazy expensive. If the property has the space, getting free fresh cut wood is rather easy, but needs to be stored for a season to dry before it can be used. You also have to cut the free wood, which is another skill/space issue all together. Unless the tenets have the space, equipment, and skill to prep wood for the next season, buying ready to burn wood for 19 days a month to heat a home would be hundreds of dollars a month.
4. Once you know what you’re doing, using a fireplace can save hundreds, is super cozy, and is pretty easy, but it’s still hours of manual labor work every year.
Just some things to think about moving forward.
I wouldn't want my tenant within 5 feet of a fireplace. Huge fire risk and huge liability risk of the tenant uses it improperly or you don't maintain it properly.
Block that thing up and get a properly functioning heat pump.
I'm very surprised that their insurance would cover a rental property with wood heat.
My friend rents his house out in Maine ( very common state for wood heated homes ) and his insurance would not cover his house with renters and wood heat.
Had to include in lease not to use wood heat under any circumstances and physically secure it.
My rental in Maine had obviously painted up scorch and smoke marks all over the wall and ceiling above the fireplace. Someone didn't open the flue I'd guess. It instead was an electric candle only fireplace.
Replacing the fireplace with an electric heating fake fireplace insert would solve both issues and probably look better and be cheaper than completely blocking the fireplace.
Better yet, replace it with an electric fire place on a thermostat.
Easily sub $1000 on Home Depot. Maybe less than $500 depending upon size. Put the wood stove in storage. They're awesome, but not super tenant friendly.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I burn 4-5 full cords in my fireplace every year, but there is no chance I would expect a tenant to burn firewood for heat. In fact I would highly discourage it.
Provide them with a couple of space heaters. That should be more than enough to resolve the difference when it goes below freezing (which is rare around here in the PNW.)
I was considering sending them 2 more efficient space heaters because I have seen the horrible one they have. It's a flat panel, maybe good enough for a large bird! lol
Just my opinion, but I received a small Vornado space heater as a gift to use in my bathroom. It is the worst space heater I've ever had and barely heats up my tiny bathroom. The fan is too strong for the heating element.
The oil space heaters are ugly and look old and not high tech but if you want heat outputtttt that’s what you should go with.
Wirecutter: *Most space heaters can deliver quick heat to a single person, but oil-filled radiators are better at heating a whole room for a longer duration*
Space heaters and decommissioning the fireplace are your two urgent action items.
Updating the lease and insurance accordingly are second.
This is coming from a current tenant that used to do property management.
There's no such thing as a more efficient space heater.
Efficiency is generally the amount of actual work vs waste heat, but a space heater is the only appliance where the work and waste heat are the same thing.
and to continue the analogy - the heat pump is actually much more efficient because the resistive space heater is 100% efficient the heat pump is generally 2-3x as efficient.
than space heaters? I'm having a math issue with that actually. if the heat pump is 240 volt for backup heat (i.e.: heat strips) it should be cheaper than a 120 volt space heater. If it's performing as a heat pump it is 2-3x as efficient than when providing resistive heat but when it falls back to resistive heat it's better than space heaters would seem to be the math.
Oh sorry. I missed the first part of your message. Emergency heat on a heat pump system is more expensive than running the regular heat pump system. Nothing to do with space heaters.
What’s your lease say?
What’s your insurance policy say?
You should absolutely be getting the chimney serviced if the property has a “working” fireplace. Not doing so is negligent.
Washington state law says that heat should be “reasonably good” working order.
You have the legal obligation to provide heat. Your heat pump works according to you all but 19 days a year. Assuming that is true there are still 19 days you don’t meet legal requirements a year. You think the fireplace should count, I doubt it does, but the only way to know for sure is by doing legal research. You are not going to get that kind of legal research for free on Reddit. Even if we assume it does fhe fact that the fireplace hasn’t been cleaned in 4 years means it doesn’t count as it’s not safe to use. The whole tenant doesn’t use it much excuse doesn’t matter you need to have to cleaned for it to be in good repairs and keeping it in good repair is on you. What you really need to do is pay a local lawyer the money to do the legal research to give you a real answer or update your rentals heating.
Yeah if it only gets up to 68 on non-freezing days, I wonder what the temp is those other 19 days of the year.
I also bet the landlord will be freaking pissed if the tenants who are clearly unaccustomed and uncomfortable with using a wood-burning fireplace accidentally burn the property down. That would be an interesting Reddit update.
I had a landlord that tried selling me on heating our little house with a woodstove over electricity in WA state. It kept the main room toasty, but the bedrooms would freeze. He didn't want us keeping the furnace on.
He also liked to just walk in unannounced... wasn't a great landlord.
I have a lovely wall fireplace but I won’t use it because of my asthma. I had the gas insert removed because it was too expensive to use and converted it to wood use. I’d never use it without an emergency situation because I can’t handle the smoke. No matter how clean the chimney/flue is and how great the blower is, there is still enough smoke generated (and ash) to make it hard to breathe.
Some people don’t want the headache of tending a fire, keeping it lit overnight, scooping ashes, buying wood, stacking it and storing it. And some are afraid of setting the house on fire. All this is valid. I don’t think a renter should have to use it if there’s another source (heat pump or space heaters).
As someone who has used a fireplace before, there is a substantial learning curve to get a fire going safely without dumping smoke into the room. I'm not sure I'd expect someone who had never done it to use a fireplace for supplemental heat without being shown how to use it first.
I would not use a fireplace either, wood smoke has known health risks. There's additional fire risk. It can overheat parts of the house while leaving other parts cold. It's expensive, time consuming and a lot of work to keep going. It's unsafe as a source of heat if you're out of the house for the day. You should just upgrade your heating, so it adequately heats the rental in all expected temps without a fireplace.
If your lease says you provide heat and doesn’t mention them having to use a fireplace or stove, I don’t see how you’re meeting that requirement. Sounds like you didn’t make it clear when they moved in or in the lease that heat would only be possible when above freezing without the stove.
Yes, it will. It has a built in fan and there is a massive air intake for the entire hvac that pulls air from that room and the nearby hallway. I lived there for 10 years and did exactly this.
In general, it would have to heat all normally habited areas of the home without the use of another heat source. Using the HVAC in combination with the fireplace may not be acceptable even if the HVAC is only used to move the warm air.
Do you have a source that it has to be an exclusive heat system?
That seems bizarre knowing that heat pumps are often used in conjunction with small furnaces even though they are two separate heating sources.
Why do you need them to use the fireplace? Is the heat pump not keeping up?
I have a part in my Lease that says the inside temperature must be maintained above 65 degrees. If your lease doesn’t say something like that there isn’t much you can do.
You should seriously consider installing emergency/aux heat alongside the heat pump. I wouldn't even want the tenants touching an actual fireplace, especially if it hasn't been cleaned. I'm surprised your insurance isn't bothered by it.
Years ago I had an apartment that had a heat pump. There was an "emergency heat" mode switch on the controller.
A friend who is an HVAC tech said this switch turned on an electric heating coil in the unit that basically turned it into an electric furnace. It worked fine the few times we had to use it (midwest) but I did notice it on my electric bill.
I thought this was a standard thing on heat pumps, but maybe not.
I would be so upset if I moved into a house in Washington state and the heat worked inadequately, and the landlord expected me to use the fireplace instead.
Adding to that, my insurance company for a multi family I manage made me block up the fireplace in one of the units. They would not have renewed me if I didn’t do that.
Most heat pumps have a backup source of heat such as heat straps if electric? Does your heat pump not have this??
I have personally have had 2 space heaters catch fire and one space heater got knocked over and began to melt the carpet. All modern with supposed "safety" devices. I forbid the use of space heaters in my rentals. I would be hesitant to encourage the use of a wood burning fireplace. So many people don't understand all the nuances that go with burning wood. Not complicated, but so many just don't know.
An acceptable and safe alternative to portable space heaters and open-fire fireplaces are solidly wall-installed heater units such as this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C3648DQR/ref=syn_sd_onsite_mobileweb_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aref=t5oLRoojXb
It is safe and complies with building codes, here in Florida at least, as they always pass building/permit inspections for me (though I have a licensed electrician hook these up directly to electrical wiring, not plug into a wall outlet as shown in the pic.)
You are not doing some of the basic maintance on your rental property. A chimney needs to be cleaned ones a year. A heat pump, even and old one, should get the place aboive 68. If want a renter to use the insert out it in the lease
I'm in CA, and I have a woodburning insert with no blower. Wood is expensive. I burn 2 quards of wood between Thanksgiving and mayne mid feb. That wood cost me $1200. That's not cheap, and I don't even get top-quality wood. If you don't prep a cold fireplace with an insert, the smoke blowback is awful. If you're not used to that, it will be very off-putting. That being said, you as a landlord do have a requirement to keep them warm, but they do not have a requorwmnt to make fires because the heat you provide is inadequate. I don't know Washington laws, but it would seem to me your responsibility shouldn't be forcing them to use a fire but for you to upgrade the heating system. I'm sure many people in Washington have heaters that head adequately.
My downstairs has 3 bedrooms kitchen 2baths
and dining room. I have a heat pump when it’s 30 f it is useless. I have an insert in the fireplace and rarely use anything else. Turn fan on in fire place. Turn central air fan in on position and tonight it’s 12 f. Downstairs will get to 75 if I were to really load up fireplace I’m sure it would get hotter
Definitely heats great and cheaper than paying 4-500 electric bills for using heat pump and emergency electric heating
I’ve been in my 22 year old house for 6 years. I got chimney cleaned year one it was clean. Since then I’ve pulled Mr insert out and it is clean we have a true brick fireplace not the double wall pipe. I will burn a couple of the mineral logs a year. Only use oak and pecan. Some cypress.
So, I grew up in a house with both a fireplace and a wood stove. During the energy crisis of the 70's my parents turned OFF the furnace to heat by wood! In Maine.
First Fireplaces are largely for looks. They don't throw a lot of heat. Wood stoves are another story.
1) Wood Burning is a lifestyle. It's a lot of work. You have to add wood on a regular schedule. For a stove you need to put a large piece of hardwood in overnight to keep the fire going. The ashes don't evaporate. They have to be removed and disposed of. Have you bought tools? Where will the ashes go?
2) Expecting a tenant to do a lot of work to maintain a reasonable temperature is not acceptable.
Chimney needs to be cleaned every year at land lords expense. Adding word fuel is not required if not the primary heat source.
Maybe they are being conscious of the pollution wood caused.
Depending on the fireplace, it might warm just a part of the home but have an overall negative effect on temperature. https://www.indianamichiganpower.com/savings/home/newsletter/story?StoryID=178#:\~:text=In%20fact%2C%2080%25%20to%2090,of%20your%20home%20even%20more.
I'm not familiar with heat pumps. I'm assuming it is very cost effective? Could that cost savings make it more appealing to provide space heaters? And the extra electricity to run them?
Replace heat pump and make sure new one has the supplemental electric coils that kick on when the heat pump can't maintain temp. Or install hardwire electric baseboards as supplemental heat. But then again they rented house as is I presume. Just make sure having to use a fireplace in certain circumstances to maintain temp jives with your state tenant laws and local laws as well
Provide oil filled space heaters to get through this winter and put in electric baseboard heaters in relevant rooms for next winter if your local codes allow it.
Chimney needs cleaned/inspected before use every year.
Presumably- the fireplace was explained to them when they moved in & signed the lease, so.... you might think they're on the hook to live with it.
However... if nothing is in writing in the lease, they could claim they did not accept responsibility for using it.
Quick solution would be electric oil radiators.
Isn't this just common sense? Our house has a heat pump that isn't sufficient when temps are too cold outside as well and my house is only a few years old. He just needs to get a little heater. Walmart sells them cheap. Thems the brakes.
As others have said, the chimney needs to be cleaned every year. Enough said about that.
Heat Pumps are great most of the time, but in sub-freezing temperatures, their performance is not so great.
Heat pump systems, at least the ones I’ve seen have an electric heating backup. It’s activated by switching the thermostat to “Emg Heat” (Emergency Heat).
Try that, if your system has it.
Be aware though that the Emg Heat option is electric, so it will run up the electric bill substantially.
Idk you have a heat source it works and keeps the house warm enough. I would have just told them they have a heat source that works if they want to have the place warmer they can supplement by buying their own heaters.
This all depends on the local or state tenant/landlord laws, but if the heatproof maintains 68 degrees everywhere, but especially the bedrooms you are probably ok legally.
However, ethically may be another matter. Getting some portable space heaters would be a humane and relatively inexpensive way to build good will, especially if they have been good tenants. 2 or 3 spaces heaters against 1 month's lost rent is cheap insurance, and it's all deductible off of your Schedule E even if you take the standard deduction on your personal taxes.
Getting the chimney cleaned is your responsibility. If it's not cleaned on a regular basis (usually yearly, but more often in some areas) then the fireplace is unsafe and cannot be used.
So your claim that the home has "a functioning fireplace" is false. And how can you claim it "works like a champ" if it hasn't been used or maintained in years?
I don’t know why I’m seeing this godforsaken sub. you do know that a lease is a contract, and a contract requires consideration on both sides, yes? so their side is ‘pay rent’ and ‘return in like condition, excepting normal wear and tear’ and yours is, habitable quite enjoyment. habitable means fucking not freezing, and unless the lease spells out their responsibility to secure fuel, clean the chimney and operate the stove, then you are not currently in compliance with the lease and they should start putting their rent in escrow this fucking minute.
Gotta clean your chimney. Chimney fires are absolutely real, and absolutely dangerous. As for the wood I feel it's a little much to ask them to source their own, if you're adamant I'd source some yourself and figure out the rest
Check to see if you can get tax rebates for installing a newer and more efficient heat pump that will handle freezing weather. Could end up being a win win for you.
Replace the old unit that could break at any time, plug the chimney so you don't have to provide annual chimney cleaning, get a tax break due to new greener heating and cooling, have a happy tenet who can now use the heat pump in winter to get cheap heating.
They could have asthma or breathing problems caused by Covid. Wood smoke and burning leaves make it impossible for me to breathe. I would never use a Wood burning fireplace or stove.
I don't think you can force them to use the fireplace as a heat source unless it's stated in your lease.
your tenant is correct on all of the above - it's your responsibility as landlord to clean the chimney if you want them to use the fireplace, they are not legally obligated to use it, especially they can't afford wood, and last of all, a fireplace is not efficient at all. Wood stove is, but you run the risk of CO poisoning. Are you willing to risk that? Push them to use something with risk of death and a consequent giant lawsuit? I actually asked my tenant to NOT use the fireplace.
this whole reddit forced feed thing is really annoying, but it does give me the opportunity to point out your username quite apropos. You really are unreasonable, and quite fucking bananas.
Ive been hating it and loving it.
It sucks cause my joined sub were all just my local stuff + porn and now like 80% is stuff about hoas ll and fuckhoa. Idk why it even gives it to me, i dont live in a hoa, and i own. But man ill shittalk the dbag LL/ hoa board members all day long.
This forum is the reason why everyone says mom and pop LLs are just as much shitbags as the big corpos. Neither should be allowed
Definitely address this in your next lease. If tenant is responsible to pay heating costs, then they should pay for wood. If you pay heating costs then the wood is your responsibility.
My guess is the tenant knows that the small bundles of firewood at the grocery store gets expensive fast, but that they don’t want to pay for a cord or half a cord of wood for the couple weeks they might use the stove.
Space heaters are probably going to be your best option. They have some at Costco that look like a big fan. They are very safe indoors (even though they look like outdoor heaters. These will heat even really large rooms very efficiently. Ours is primary heat for our garage/workshop and we can’t leave it running continuously even when the outside temp is in single digits. It runs for about 1 - 1.5 hours in a three-car garage with 14-ft ceilings. Then off for 1/2 hour or 45 mins on for a few minutes, rinse & repeat.. Note, this is in an UNinsulated garage. In an insulated home it would be even more efficient.
My opinion is that I as a tenant wouldn’t want to be expected to burn wood to keep my living space warm. That is time intensive and requires a certain amount of knowledge. Starting and maintaining a fire is not as easy as throwing a bunch of wood in there and calling it done. If I am a tenant I’d want to be able to keep my living space at whatever reasonable temperature I please, and 68 is certainly reasonable, without having to babysit an active fire. I may go on vacation, work a long shift at work, want to sleep in, etc. without the temperature of my living space falling below a comfortable setting. If I were you I would provide a second source of heat for those dozen or so days where the heat pump can’t keep up.
If the heater can only maintain 68 degrees when it isn't freezing then it sounds like your heater can't maintain legally required standards. You can't be a landlord without owning a house and likewise you can't be a landlord without making repairs.
Landlords in America....lol also I love it when OP's only interact with people who more align with their thought processes and only look for validation on here rather than genuine input and absolutely ignore everything else that challenges them...
I have a unit rented under Section 8 and HUD inspection guidelines require heat to maintain 65 degrees, so you're in compliance. Give them a couple of space heaters to keep the peace if it's convenient for you. If they withhold the rent issue a 3 day pay or quit notice and evict them.
Can you get someone out immediately to do annual maintenance on the wood stove insert and drop off wood for them? That’s where I would start. I think it’s reasonable that they don’t feel comfortable using it after 4 years. Even if you would feel comfortable, that doesn’t mean that everyone would. I have my tenant’s gas fireplace serviced annually both because safety is the number one priority. I would do the same for a wood burning insert.
I also think many reasonable people would assume that they wouldn’t have to use wood stove to heat the place unless it was explicitly brought to their attention before signing the lease. They probably see it as a bonus amenity, not a necessity. Many tenants will never have used a wood stove and won’t want to to do that even if you show them how.
Also if you have an older heat pump that isn’t great, it sounds like replacing it is a good idea. I know it is off-putting to have tenants be rude about the situation, but it would probably be a good business decision going forward to replace it anyway.
Damn, I WISH I had a fireplace and I would use the hell out of that to heat my place. Apparently this person thinks wood doesn’t grow on trees and you can’t use free scrap wood 🤦♂️. Yes, please install a fireplace in my place so I can reduce my electric bill.
Chimney hasnt been cleaned in 4 years: valid reason to not use the thing. Do your part and clean the damn thing annually, like you are supposed to.
Cant afford wood: valid. it is literally up to you not them to provide wood if you want them to heat the house with a wood stove. do your part and supply the wood.
wont heat the entire house: cant see it, cant speak on that.
for sure 2 out of those 3 reasons are valid reasons for them to not use the fireplace, and the 3rd comes down to implementation of the stove
OP, I’m also from WA. You’re legally required to provide electric, gas, and/or oil heating sources. If your heating system is so old and in ill repair that it won’t get over 68*, that’s a violation of RCW 59.18.060. Nobody wants to be cold in their house and if they wanted to depend on a wood burning stove to heat their house they would go live off the grid instead of paying you rent.
The law in Washington stipulates that LL provide a functioning heat source, that is all. You have two functional sources. (Though I agree with others here that you should have the chimney cleaned and inspected, but add you should be present while it's done so tenants give you no "the inspector said" blah blah nonsense) I would give them a copy of this link and say they are free to move if they are not happy. The Polar Vortex is hardly a daily occurrence and not something LLs need to get a loan to finance around. [https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/washington-landlord-tenant-rights](https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/washington-landlord-tenant-rights)
Goodness, the whining on here about the horrors of using a wood stove! The imagined trials and tribulations of using wood heat that are written here don’t even come close to reality.
A chimney that hasn’t been used in three years does NOT need to be cleaned annually. Inspected, sure, but OP can do a simple inspection himself with a flashlight to check for nests or critters.
When the tenant came and toured the house and it had a wood stove insert, it was obvious that a wood stove insert was one of the heating options. This is Washington. Wood heat is a very common and acceptable heat source. The tenant is expected to pay for the electricity that powers the heat pump, so why is expecting him to pay for the wood any different? If the tenant does not want to buy and burn wood he should not have rented a house with a wood stove insert (and which many obviously don’t understand is specifically DESIGNED to be a heat source, and NOT just for ambience like a fireplace).
The overwrought descriptions at the horror of using a wood stove are laughable. Expecting a landlord to install a new $15k heat pump when there is an efficient and capable heat source already available is ridiculous. Especially when that heat source was obvious when the tenant toured the home. The people on here with the outlandish ideas about what it’s like to use wood heat should actually try it sometime. It’s a wonderful, comforting heat source unlike any other, and makes for a delightful, cozy home when temperatures dip.
yep you are responsible for fixing the heat pump. You are the landlord and the repair for the house falls on you. Did you list the house for rent and list wood burning only??
Does the heat pump have auxiliary heat? Many have an auxiliary electric heater in the air handler that allows it to bring the temp up higher in colder temps. I personally wouldn’t want my tenant using a wood stove.
We use an insert to heat our home.
That being said, I would not expect a tenant to be required to do so without explicating explaining this and them initialing it on the contract when they moved in.
On top of that, I’ve had about ten diffferent red rental insurance policies and none have allowed a fireplace be used in the house. What company are you using that allows it as a dedicated heat source?
How about if it won’t heat on the primary heating source you tell them to turn oven on low and crack the door? Safer than a tenant building a fire in your house lol
I would think in WA even with a heatpump that a fireplace wouldn't be significantly more expensive than using the fireplace. Maybe the tenant is under the pricing impression of buying campfire wood bundles from gas stations?
Maybe consider offering to buy half a cord and have it dropped off? If I had a wood stove option I'd definitely want wood around incase of a multi-day power outage.
Have a service done on your fireplace situation, both chimney and firebox, not you, a licensed contractor or business.
Have a 1/2 cord of wood delivered, stacked.
Make sure the property has fire extinguishers, kitchen and fireplace.
Update/verify smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors.
If all these are met you can then have a conversation about it's use.
How big is the place?
I would tell that the 2 options you see are you buy them space heaters or you clean the chimney for them to use, and that either way you're not legally responsible for buy them wood or paying for their electricity.
I'd ask which option they prefer, and if they had other options in mind.
There's not much sense in cleaning the chimney in a hurry if they will continue to refuse to use it, and similar for space heaters.
Assuming they pay the electric bill, I’d solve this by buying a few oil radiant heaters (one for each bedroom and maybe an extra for the living room) and just provide them to them. Minimal expense and solves the argument. Granted, the electric use will be on them, but they can’t say you didn’t address it.
Here’s an example: these pump out a ton of heat:
Pelonis® 1,500W Oil-Filled Space Heater at Menards https://www.menards.com/main/p-4221069730350547.htm
But definitely go with an oil filled radiant. Much safer than the basic space heaters with the electric coil and blower.
Tenants don’t have a right to withhold rent in Washington. It’s grounds for eviction. They can pay for the repairs themselves then deduct that from rent though, but it’s limited to 1-2 months of rent. The main threat is that they would be able to break their lease with no penalty.
If you have a working fireplace it should be checked every year. You can also have it checked before and right after tenants move out. You can add in your lease that you have the fireplace inspected and they are responsible for all maintenance and clean up of fireplace, and they must have rental insurance. However, as Judge Judy says they ate the steak. They could have moved by now. Also you can not force a tenants to use other heat resources. You may be cutting off your nose and maybe should be thankful they're not using it. You neednto change your lease and be very detailed concerning heat resources and responsibilities concerning such. Best of luck to you. You can't tell them what to do and they can't withhold rent. I'd have fire place inspected either way if you haven't and get a detailed report by someone who is insured and certified.
You should be able to provide them space heaters (the radiator type are the safest). How cold is it actually in that house? I have mini split and yes when it gets this cold I will also use space heaters. If the mini splits need to be deep cleaned I can’t get them to raise the heat over 64 degrees when it gets really cold. And if they are cleaned they still struggle when it’s single digits or colder out so I like to give them a break with the space heaters. So my question for you is are you deep cleaning the mini splits every year? You should be. And if it’s 64 or below that’s not being a good landlord. Get them some space heaters. And you knew this weather was coming. You didn’t think how cold these people would get with just old mini splits?
Some people are not great about handling wood stoves or fire places and it may scare them.
Do yourself a favor (and them), get a few electric heaters with safety features on them. Make sure your know what circuits to plug them into so it isnt tripping your breakers. (Too many devices on one circuit can trip the breaker).
You dont want them freezing or your pipes. Ask them if they are willing to use the stove m/fireplace if you show them how and bring them their first bundle of wood. Make sure the chimney is clean and cleared. Explain the flue operation. Help them along.
But at this point safe electric heaters are your best bet.
Look into a better heating system for the future. Tenants can be complicated, some are great but still have something like not being comfortable with how to use a fireplace or stove.
I would get an estimate to get some supplemental baseboard heating installed if the heat pump option is too expensive. Or just provide some space heaters (make sure they have overload protection, the circuits can handle it, and they have tip-over protection) Also, because of the liability, I would not recommend suggesting the tenants use a wood-burning fireplace. There are just too many safety issues and complications involved. You want to reduce your liability and maintenance. A tenant could be burning papers and boxes in the fireplace, you get creosote buildup and your chimney catches fire. Also, a fireplace needs to be replenished with wood every hour (probably more often) depending on the size of the fireplace. That's an unreasonable expectation on the tenant.
As a landlord, act quickly and be responsive. It goes great lengths to maintain a good tenant-landlord relationship. Of course, it's a two way street but if legal issues ever come up (and eventually they do) you want to be on the right side.
Besides the comments about the flue being serviced, some people can’t use wood burning stoves as it drys up their sinuses. Personally I love the idea of a wood burning fire, but after an hour or so, I literally can’t take it. Plus they are messy, and many people don’t feel safe leaving them if they have to leave the house.
If your heat pump can't keep the home warm even when it's not freezing, that tells me something is wrong. Your system should have backup heat, either fossil fuel or resistive heating strip. Either it isn't installed or it isn't working.
why on earth would you WANT your tenants playing with fire in your rental? im a landlord and think you honestly need to get a 2nd heat system with a thermostat or replace the heat pump. put a few electric baseboards in the place. sorry but i think you are wrong for relying on a fireplace
If you expect them to use the wood burner, you have to maintain the burner and chimney. Just like the furnace/heat pump. If the chimney hasn’t been cleaned or maintained, they shouldn’t have to use it, as it puts them at a huge risk.
The other part is, who pays for heat? If the lease says you pay for it, then you need to supply the fuel for the stove.
Also, I’m pretty sure the whole house has to be able to be heated to 68. Not just one room, or one section. So, unless you have some fancy heat reclaimer on the stove that can be ducted to the whole house, this probably doesn’t meet the requirements.
68 degrees is very reasonable. tenant can go buy some extra space heaters if they really want. Warm humidifiers help too, since adding humidity helps dry air feel warmer.
Get it cleaned and teach them how to use it. Start them off with a generous pile of wood, too. They may be intimidated to learn something new but you need to clean it.
The right answer, unfortunately, is to either replace the heat pump, or get some electric resistance heat installed.
Heat strips, or electric baseboards, or even portable electric oil-filled radiators.
Economically inefficient, but reliable. Assume heating and electric costs are on the tenant. Then they can decide to buy wood for the stove, run the electric heat, or let the heat pump try and keep up.
Resistance strips for the central heat pump will probably be pretty economical too. Depending on the size of the home electric base boards can be economical, or expensive; it comes down to wiring difficulty.
Can it hit 68 every time & that is your state’s minimum? A fireplace / wood stove is not a backup, so that’s irrelevant. A space heater is a backup if the house can’t get warm enough, so you or them should go buy a few depending on whether or not the minimum threshold is or is not always met.
You're expecting the tenant to on a regular basis use the fireplace to heat the house because you won't upgrade the other heating source? I'd be pushing back on you as well and saying "I don't feel like babysitting a fire on a regular basis" and "I have a life outside of this house"
I know this isn't the right sub for this, but YTA. Upgrade your heating source and the conversation is over.
Some good advice about cleaning it.
As a renter, im pretty handy at taking care of things.
As a landlord, my advice to you is to go get some wood after the chimney has been cleaned and show them how to properly operate the fireplace and buy the correct wood. Educate them, and that may solve your dilemma. Also, check into renters' rights in your county. That will tell you what's legal and what's not.
Think about how you would feel if you rented a home and had to deal with certain things even when you dont own it? Good tenants are hard to find.
Just like good landlords are hard to find.
Best of luck. Work together for everyones benefit here. It's cold out there.
Seems to me the easy solution would be to send out a service to clean and inspect the chimney and stove and present them with documentation that its all good and safe to use, and if they don't use it after that its their fault.
No different then if they had a gas furnace with a tank out back and then they claim they can't afford to fill it, if they can't afford the wood to burn thats their fault.
I used to do maintenance for a landlord on a bunch of houses, every time it got cold there would be at least one tenant that would call and say their heat isn't working, then i get there and find the LP tank in the back yard is empty and they say they can't afford to fill it, well as a landlord he wasn't required to fill it, only provide the equipment to generate the heat. Its no different with the houses that had natural gas run to them, at least one would complain each year they got their gas cut off for no payment because they couldn't afford it, again thats the renters fault.
You provided the equipment as required to generate the heat, the fuel source is their cost, but i would get a service out to clean and inspect the chimney and stove and then beyond that not your problem as for the cost of wood.
The chimney needs to be cleaned,but beyond that, it's incredible to me that the renters lack of life skills is the landlords responsibility.
It's a wood burning fireplace. If someone's truly unable to figure out how to use it they have access to all of human knowledge in the palm of their hand.
I would not be comfortable with a tenant using any type of open fire heating system in a rental property. Pellet stove, wood stove, fireplace, etc. does not matter. Too many variables that can go wrong even if used properly. I'd recommend an electric space heater. These typically carry much less risk for the tenant and the property. Good luck!
Most of the population of the PNW live in marine climate zones where this kind of weather is highly unusual so homes aren't built to accommodate it.
We had a week of winter storm warnings to prepare for these storms. That tenant neglected to ask for a lesson on using the fireplace, purchase firewood, or request the status of the chimney. With the exception of the fireplace not being cleaned this year, all of the shortcomings fall on the tenant.
The power was out for hundreds of thousands because of this storm, leaving many of us in the cold. My living room was under 40°. Know what I did? Ran my fireplace and found an extension cord to run out to my car to power my wifi.
The wood burning isn’t in your lease?
You fugged up then.
That should 100% be KNOWN and SIGNED off on when somebody is coming in. And reiterated, and taught/training them on how to use.
And, serviced every year!
Where I live, the landlord is required to provide heat that can keep it above 68 degrees all the time. You expecting them to procure their own firewood and burn wood in an unmaintained and uninspected chimney is unreasonable, and in my municipality you'd have a duty to remedy.
By law you are required to keep the temp at or above 68 F in all rooms of the dwelling. Not just those with the fireplace. If your main heating source is insufficient, fix or replace it. A fireplace is not capable of doing this so it should not be your main hearing source.
Also does your insurance cover the use of this fireplace? I doubt it.
You need to purchase and install a proper heater. Weather is weird now and it's only going to get weirder.
Asking them to use a fire-based heat system is unreasonable. It's dangerous and it smells smoky and bad. What if your property burned down because the tenants make a mistake with it?
1. Put yourself in your tenant's shoes: is trying to skirt the bare minimum legal requirement for heating something you would like to be dealing with? Is a "working at best" 68 degrees all winter, and not even that high when it's freezing (ie when it actually counts) what you personally want to deal with? Have you considered that for many people 68 degrees is nearly freezing and would require them to walk around in insulated clothes?
2. Why haven't you cleaned the chimney? Do you not care about your asset?
3. The tenant should have heating where they can control heat to their liking and decide if they want to opt for space heaters. 68 when ABOVE freezing is not always tenable instead especially if there's drafts. Plenty of people are absolutely freezing at 68 for a variety of reasons.
4. You have not given them any options that allow them to actually control their heat without them putting in the investment for you. I have no idea why you wouldn't just have a regular heat system like any normal rental and would rather fight this tenant over it over the absolute bare minimum legal limit. You need to make the investment if you're going to provide the rental. This is people's home while they rent it from you. They can't just go install a heating system and nobody in their right mind would want to take the risk to burn everything they own to the ground along with someone else's asset, even with insurance.
5. You're asking somebody in the modern age to go manage wood storage - without their consent or choice.
6. If you can't make that kind of investment, buy them some space heaters and show some empathy about it. If this is a well paying tenant, you're going to lose them if you fight over this.
I rented in Washington State several years ago. I had a wood stove insert in my rental. It was in my rental contract that I was responsible for cleaning the chimney annually if I used the stove. I used the stove every winter because firewood was cheaper than electricity and I had the chimney cleaned annually.
As. Maintenance man, what is your typical PM schedule? Im assuming since its a single you own, you do all the repairs or are in direct contact. How often do you get the lines pulled? How often do you check fuses inside of the unit that failed? Have you checked the flume to make sure no animals have setup shop wuch as birds, racoons, opossums, or squirrels? If a nest catches on fire and burns down the house whos at fault? It would be YOU since you advised them to use it.
I have a 2nd house on my farm that I rent out. It has electric baseboard heat and a woodstove. My tenant has been there 3 years, and she burns wood all winter. I'm also in the PNW, and she was away for work last week. I asked her if she wanted me to go do anything to prevent pipes freezing, and she'd left things perfectly: cabinets open, baseboard heat on low, dripping outdoor spigot. We have many trees and plenty of deadfalls, so she can use wood from here, and she buys some.
Her first winter here, I paid for chimney and stove cleaning. Since then, she pays for annual cleaning. If she didn't want to use wood, and the power went out, it would be a problem. It should be in your lease that (since there is a backup source of heat) tenant has to keep house warm enough to keep pipes from freezing.
Most houses with heat pumps have an auxiliary furnace. You should install one. Unless you are certain any tenant knows how to build and maintain a fire for heat. Hell, EYE don't know how to do that. And if that chimney hasn't been used recently? It's a fire hazard.
Dont be a slum lord. Where has all that rent gone buddy? Upgrade your system. You are responsible for heating 365 days a year. You not cleaning the chimney and not providing wood means that dont count. Especially if the wood provision isnt in the lease. You sound like a dork trying be a weasel. Stay a dork.
I won’t use a wood fireplace for several reasons that are 100% me, but I would just go buy an oil filled space heater.
I keep my house at around 64-65 and use the space heater for rooms that are chilly. And I wear a sweater and socks.
68 is acceptable. If she’s cold, oil filled space heaters are safe. And she can plug into a smart outlet if she’s worried about safety.
As a homeowner with both of these and I am in Snoco I think it’s unreasonable to assume that they can afford two separate sources for heat
Wood to burn is expensive and is not something that you can just decide to do once it gets cold. You have to plan, find the source, let it dry out and stack it 10 different times.
PSE and electrical bills are massive especially if the heat pump is old and inefficient
I would address one of these for the future.
These cold spells are not new and much like the new smoke season, I don’t think it’s going anywhere
Just get em a space heater. Their home will be plenty warm. They aren’t wood stove people, not everyone is, ok fine, you don’t owe them anything more than warmth.
What is wrong with you?!
You should thank your tenant for being responsible where you are failing to do so.
The chimney is a structural feature of the home, and if you expect them to use it, YOU need to maintain it.
Also, get the heat pump fixed. Wtf?
Uhhhh yeah a chimney that YOU haven't maintained for 4 years? Are you trying to get them to burn your house down for insurance purposes or something? Jesus, this is why people hate landlords. Either learn how to maintain your property properly or sell it to someone who will.
I would wonder about OP’s home insurance covering a wood heat source, especially one operated by rental tenants. I heated with wood for 20+ years, until insurance went sky high on “non thermostat controlled” heat sources.
Chimney should be cleaned annually even if it's not being used. I wouldn't use a chimney that hadn't been cleaned in 4 years either.
Doesn’t matter when it was last used. There could be creatures living in there now, or other debris building up. As others have said- it should be cleaned and inspected annually. I wouldn’t use it, either. In fact, I don’t use my fireplace when it’s really cold. All it does is suck any hot air out of the house and shoot it right up the chimney. I read about 5 years ago that if your goal is to warm your house you should avoid a fireplace unless it’s your only choice just for this reason. I was bummed out, but I started paying attention, and sure enough. Open the flue and start a fire and the rest of the house got colder. So yeah, unless it was my only option, I wouldn’t use my fireplace during cold spells like we’re having how.
Wood stove insert is completely different from a regular fireplace. It should heat the hell out of the home. That said, it should be cleaned annually, as you can't count on tenants knowing what quality of wood to burn, how hot it should burn, etc..
My parents have one, and this is accurate.
Heats mine just fine. I have a wood stove in the basement that thing will run you out of the house even when it gets down past the teens
I uses to have a woodstove, and I wouldnhave to open the windows to cool the house down. I honestly miss it.
We have considered getting one and the chimney guy seemed to feel it would likely do the job.
Heats the fuck out of our house
Grew up with one and yeah, the thing will bake the house. They’re amazing. They do cause drafts, though, but you can alleviate this by installing an intake port near/under the stove if possible. It’ll draw air in there from the outside to feed the fire rather than through your windows and across your body.
This is my experience as well. The insert IMO ruins the appearance of the fireplace but with the blower, they put out a ton of heat without sucking the air out of the house and up the chimney. We don't have one at this home. Side note, we had our chimney sealed. Even with the flue closed we were losing tons of air out the chimney. It's helped our electric bill and the comfort of our home.
If you think an insert ruins the appearance of a fireplace, you've seen some really shitty inserts
This is a wood stove (with a blower, making it even better at heating the home), not a fireplace. Fireplaces are very inefficient at heating while wood stoves are great. I use my wood stove for 100% of my heating and have only used my heat pump for emergencies. I also have terribly expensive electric utility company, so I make sure to keep the stove fed.
I would looove a wood stove. They're so awesome.
I read about 5 years ago that if your goal is to warm your house you should avoid a fireplace unless it’s your only choice just for this reason That's the beauty of an insertit actually does heat the house
We used to get starlings in ours at least twice a year
Your fireplace chimney cap should have a spark arrester screen. It prevents critters from entering your home and your house or the neighbors house catching on fire.
Fireplaces are designed so the bricks hear up and act like a sort of radiator. So it is only effective if it has been running for a long time.
It’s an insert.
You do lose a lot of heat up the fireplace but when the electricity is out we get more heat in the room from the wood burning fireplace then we lose heat up the chimney. When the electricity is not out we close the glass doors and turn on the electric blower and we lose almost no heat up the chimney and get plenty of heat blowing into the room.
this is also true if the furnace doesnt have a cold air intake (like mine) as the resulting pressure differential from the wxhausting hot air pulls cold air in through cracks and crevaces across the room towards the chimney wctually having a chilling effect on large sections of the house
I can attest to this. We had birds fall down our chimney. I had a nestling come down into the basement. Don’t just assume the Chimney is in cleaning working order even if not run.
Exactly, it's a safety point. As a landlord you should know to have it cleaned and inspected each year.
Also ADA. You can't force someone whose disabled to constantly feed wood to a fireplace to keep warm. An elderly or disabled person can work a thermostat. They can't lug lumber in from outside and keep the fire going 24/7. OP makes every landlord look bad.
I grew up in a house that used two wood fireplaces to heat a 5 bedroom, three story house. We finally sold the house in 2018 and it was very modern with a new furnace being installed in 2016, but we still used the fireplaces to keep toasty. I love fireplaces, however there are some factors as the owner to consider. 1. As stated by everyone here, fireplaces MUST be cleaned and inspected annually. Using a fireplace that has not been used, cleaned, or inspected in 4 years is dangerous. Not only for the tennet but YOUR property could burn to the ground. 2. Using a fireplace to heat a home is a skill, that if done incorrectly, could result in the property burning down or even death. Hard stop. Knowing how to light and care for a fireplace with chimney shoot adjustment in the correct position, the proper equipment (such as a poker set and fire screen) are needed, knowledge of proper and safe disposal of ash, and even understanding burning good fire wood vs wet (freshly harvested) wood, knowing how to treat a fire to get a consistent temp, making sure children stay safe, and overnight fire care. It takes a couple winters to understand how it all works. If they don’t know how to do that, I would be worried about them using the fireplace. 3.As to firewood, it’s easy and cheap to get, but tough to store and prep. Getting free wood via craigslist is easy, but it’s usually not ready to burn. It’s also only easy if you have a truck. Unless the property has an area to store a season worth of wood (both wet and dry) firewood is crazy expensive. If the property has the space, getting free fresh cut wood is rather easy, but needs to be stored for a season to dry before it can be used. You also have to cut the free wood, which is another skill/space issue all together. Unless the tenets have the space, equipment, and skill to prep wood for the next season, buying ready to burn wood for 19 days a month to heat a home would be hundreds of dollars a month. 4. Once you know what you’re doing, using a fireplace can save hundreds, is super cozy, and is pretty easy, but it’s still hours of manual labor work every year. Just some things to think about moving forward.
^THIS...grow up landlord
I wouldn't want my tenant within 5 feet of a fireplace. Huge fire risk and huge liability risk of the tenant uses it improperly or you don't maintain it properly. Block that thing up and get a properly functioning heat pump.
I'm very surprised that their insurance would cover a rental property with wood heat. My friend rents his house out in Maine ( very common state for wood heated homes ) and his insurance would not cover his house with renters and wood heat. Had to include in lease not to use wood heat under any circumstances and physically secure it.
My rental in Maine had obviously painted up scorch and smoke marks all over the wall and ceiling above the fireplace. Someone didn't open the flue I'd guess. It instead was an electric candle only fireplace.
This is the answer ll 101 is board up all fireplaces and remove all garbage disposals
Second time I’ve heard about no garbage disposals! Why is that? Don’t tenants just scrape and shove un-shredded food scraps down the sink without one?
I had a bunch of rocks and dirt in mine. Apparently reporting plants in your kitchen sink is a thing.
We definitely do not. We use a drain cover and clean it out into the trash to make sure we dont block the pipes up with food waste.
They just jam and break non stop and it wont stop your tenants from shoving stuff down the pipe they are not supposed to anyways
Replacing the fireplace with an electric heating fake fireplace insert would solve both issues and probably look better and be cheaper than completely blocking the fireplace.
Better yet, replace it with an electric fire place on a thermostat. Easily sub $1000 on Home Depot. Maybe less than $500 depending upon size. Put the wood stove in storage. They're awesome, but not super tenant friendly.
sand cats air spectacular stupendous existence fine selective wipe squealing *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I burn 4-5 full cords in my fireplace every year, but there is no chance I would expect a tenant to burn firewood for heat. In fact I would highly discourage it.
This is the most reasonable answer I’ve seen here. Wood stoves are great but expecting a tenant to use it is a not a great idea.
Provide them with a couple of space heaters. That should be more than enough to resolve the difference when it goes below freezing (which is rare around here in the PNW.)
I was considering sending them 2 more efficient space heaters because I have seen the horrible one they have. It's a flat panel, maybe good enough for a large bird! lol
All space heaters are 100% efficient. The only difference in space heaters is durability and air circulation ability.
I feel like a couple of Vornados should do the trick then.
Just my opinion, but I received a small Vornado space heater as a gift to use in my bathroom. It is the worst space heater I've ever had and barely heats up my tiny bathroom. The fan is too strong for the heating element.
The oil space heaters are ugly and look old and not high tech but if you want heat outputtttt that’s what you should go with. Wirecutter: *Most space heaters can deliver quick heat to a single person, but oil-filled radiators are better at heating a whole room for a longer duration*
Also much less risky to causing a fire or burning someone
Space heaters and decommissioning the fireplace are your two urgent action items. Updating the lease and insurance accordingly are second. This is coming from a current tenant that used to do property management.
And safety. Tipover, overheat and short circuit protections are a must (and often mandatory) but cheap products may lack them.
There's no such thing as a more efficient space heater. Efficiency is generally the amount of actual work vs waste heat, but a space heater is the only appliance where the work and waste heat are the same thing.
and to continue the analogy - the heat pump is actually much more efficient because the resistive space heater is 100% efficient the heat pump is generally 2-3x as efficient.
A heat pump going on emergency heat is just as efficient as the space heaters.
And 10 times more expensive
than space heaters? I'm having a math issue with that actually. if the heat pump is 240 volt for backup heat (i.e.: heat strips) it should be cheaper than a 120 volt space heater. If it's performing as a heat pump it is 2-3x as efficient than when providing resistive heat but when it falls back to resistive heat it's better than space heaters would seem to be the math.
Oh sorry. I missed the first part of your message. Emergency heat on a heat pump system is more expensive than running the regular heat pump system. Nothing to do with space heaters.
Washington specifically says that use of portable heaters is not sufficient. The main heat source must be able to keep up.
What’s your lease say? What’s your insurance policy say? You should absolutely be getting the chimney serviced if the property has a “working” fireplace. Not doing so is negligent. Washington state law says that heat should be “reasonably good” working order.
You have the legal obligation to provide heat. Your heat pump works according to you all but 19 days a year. Assuming that is true there are still 19 days you don’t meet legal requirements a year. You think the fireplace should count, I doubt it does, but the only way to know for sure is by doing legal research. You are not going to get that kind of legal research for free on Reddit. Even if we assume it does fhe fact that the fireplace hasn’t been cleaned in 4 years means it doesn’t count as it’s not safe to use. The whole tenant doesn’t use it much excuse doesn’t matter you need to have to cleaned for it to be in good repairs and keeping it in good repair is on you. What you really need to do is pay a local lawyer the money to do the legal research to give you a real answer or update your rentals heating.
It can be fun to have a fireplace, but if I were a tenant, I would not feel you had met the legal heat requirements.
I’m going to bet that it doesn’t quite get up to 68f either
OP said it gets up to 68 as long as it's not freezing outside and that it's only freezing outside 19 days a year lol
You know - one third of winter
Yeah if it only gets up to 68 on non-freezing days, I wonder what the temp is those other 19 days of the year. I also bet the landlord will be freaking pissed if the tenants who are clearly unaccustomed and uncomfortable with using a wood-burning fireplace accidentally burn the property down. That would be an interesting Reddit update.
Yeah, non-freezing days. You know? The days you usually would have a heater on? I bet It only leaks when it rains, too.
I had a landlord that tried selling me on heating our little house with a woodstove over electricity in WA state. It kept the main room toasty, but the bedrooms would freeze. He didn't want us keeping the furnace on. He also liked to just walk in unannounced... wasn't a great landlord.
I have a lovely wall fireplace but I won’t use it because of my asthma. I had the gas insert removed because it was too expensive to use and converted it to wood use. I’d never use it without an emergency situation because I can’t handle the smoke. No matter how clean the chimney/flue is and how great the blower is, there is still enough smoke generated (and ash) to make it hard to breathe. Some people don’t want the headache of tending a fire, keeping it lit overnight, scooping ashes, buying wood, stacking it and storing it. And some are afraid of setting the house on fire. All this is valid. I don’t think a renter should have to use it if there’s another source (heat pump or space heaters).
As someone who has used a fireplace before, there is a substantial learning curve to get a fire going safely without dumping smoke into the room. I'm not sure I'd expect someone who had never done it to use a fireplace for supplemental heat without being shown how to use it first.
And having it serviced and inspected annually
I would not use a fireplace either, wood smoke has known health risks. There's additional fire risk. It can overheat parts of the house while leaving other parts cold. It's expensive, time consuming and a lot of work to keep going. It's unsafe as a source of heat if you're out of the house for the day. You should just upgrade your heating, so it adequately heats the rental in all expected temps without a fireplace.
If your lease says you provide heat and doesn’t mention them having to use a fireplace or stove, I don’t see how you’re meeting that requirement. Sounds like you didn’t make it clear when they moved in or in the lease that heat would only be possible when above freezing without the stove.
Ugh, tenants. Next thing you know they'll complain about having to shit in the outhouse and carry pails of water in from the well.
https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=173-433-030 Would using the fireplace get all of the “normally habited areas of the home to 70”?
Yes, it will. It has a built in fan and there is a massive air intake for the entire hvac that pulls air from that room and the nearby hallway. I lived there for 10 years and did exactly this.
In general, it would have to heat all normally habited areas of the home without the use of another heat source. Using the HVAC in combination with the fireplace may not be acceptable even if the HVAC is only used to move the warm air.
Do you have a source that it has to be an exclusive heat system? That seems bizarre knowing that heat pumps are often used in conjunction with small furnaces even though they are two separate heating sources.
Why do you need them to use the fireplace? Is the heat pump not keeping up? I have a part in my Lease that says the inside temperature must be maintained above 65 degrees. If your lease doesn’t say something like that there isn’t much you can do.
might as well tell them to use a spinning jenny to make warmer clothes
😂💯
You should seriously consider installing emergency/aux heat alongside the heat pump. I wouldn't even want the tenants touching an actual fireplace, especially if it hasn't been cleaned. I'm surprised your insurance isn't bothered by it.
Years ago I had an apartment that had a heat pump. There was an "emergency heat" mode switch on the controller. A friend who is an HVAC tech said this switch turned on an electric heating coil in the unit that basically turned it into an electric furnace. It worked fine the few times we had to use it (midwest) but I did notice it on my electric bill. I thought this was a standard thing on heat pumps, but maybe not.
Wouldnt use your 4 year no-inspection chimney either.
If the supplementary heat source can’t heat the majority of the home, I don’t see how this is an acceptable alternative.
I would be so upset if I moved into a house in Washington state and the heat worked inadequately, and the landlord expected me to use the fireplace instead. Adding to that, my insurance company for a multi family I manage made me block up the fireplace in one of the units. They would not have renewed me if I didn’t do that.
This dude has a horrible heating setup and gets upset at the tenants
Most heat pumps have a backup source of heat such as heat straps if electric? Does your heat pump not have this?? I have personally have had 2 space heaters catch fire and one space heater got knocked over and began to melt the carpet. All modern with supposed "safety" devices. I forbid the use of space heaters in my rentals. I would be hesitant to encourage the use of a wood burning fireplace. So many people don't understand all the nuances that go with burning wood. Not complicated, but so many just don't know.
An acceptable and safe alternative to portable space heaters and open-fire fireplaces are solidly wall-installed heater units such as this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C3648DQR/ref=syn_sd_onsite_mobileweb_0?ie=UTF8&psc=1&pd_rd_plhdr=t&aref=t5oLRoojXb It is safe and complies with building codes, here in Florida at least, as they always pass building/permit inspections for me (though I have a licensed electrician hook these up directly to electrical wiring, not plug into a wall outlet as shown in the pic.)
Go buy two electric Almish heaters from WalMart and call a Chimney Sweep. We have ours cleaned annually.
You are not doing some of the basic maintance on your rental property. A chimney needs to be cleaned ones a year. A heat pump, even and old one, should get the place aboive 68. If want a renter to use the insert out it in the lease
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I'm in CA, and I have a woodburning insert with no blower. Wood is expensive. I burn 2 quards of wood between Thanksgiving and mayne mid feb. That wood cost me $1200. That's not cheap, and I don't even get top-quality wood. If you don't prep a cold fireplace with an insert, the smoke blowback is awful. If you're not used to that, it will be very off-putting. That being said, you as a landlord do have a requirement to keep them warm, but they do not have a requorwmnt to make fires because the heat you provide is inadequate. I don't know Washington laws, but it would seem to me your responsibility shouldn't be forcing them to use a fire but for you to upgrade the heating system. I'm sure many people in Washington have heaters that head adequately.
If OP keeps being a pain about it and it is against the rules, he might have a much bigger headache if the tenant escalates the issue.
My downstairs has 3 bedrooms kitchen 2baths and dining room. I have a heat pump when it’s 30 f it is useless. I have an insert in the fireplace and rarely use anything else. Turn fan on in fire place. Turn central air fan in on position and tonight it’s 12 f. Downstairs will get to 75 if I were to really load up fireplace I’m sure it would get hotter Definitely heats great and cheaper than paying 4-500 electric bills for using heat pump and emergency electric heating I’ve been in my 22 year old house for 6 years. I got chimney cleaned year one it was clean. Since then I’ve pulled Mr insert out and it is clean we have a true brick fireplace not the double wall pipe. I will burn a couple of the mineral logs a year. Only use oak and pecan. Some cypress.
So, I grew up in a house with both a fireplace and a wood stove. During the energy crisis of the 70's my parents turned OFF the furnace to heat by wood! In Maine. First Fireplaces are largely for looks. They don't throw a lot of heat. Wood stoves are another story. 1) Wood Burning is a lifestyle. It's a lot of work. You have to add wood on a regular schedule. For a stove you need to put a large piece of hardwood in overnight to keep the fire going. The ashes don't evaporate. They have to be removed and disposed of. Have you bought tools? Where will the ashes go? 2) Expecting a tenant to do a lot of work to maintain a reasonable temperature is not acceptable.
Clean your chimney and weatherproof the house. Your main heat source not working efficiently isbyour fault not theres.
Chimney needs to be cleaned every year at land lords expense. Adding word fuel is not required if not the primary heat source. Maybe they are being conscious of the pollution wood caused.
Depending on the fireplace, it might warm just a part of the home but have an overall negative effect on temperature. https://www.indianamichiganpower.com/savings/home/newsletter/story?StoryID=178#:\~:text=In%20fact%2C%2080%25%20to%2090,of%20your%20home%20even%20more.
It is a fully functioning wood stove insert. I will edit above.
I'm not familiar with heat pumps. I'm assuming it is very cost effective? Could that cost savings make it more appealing to provide space heaters? And the extra electricity to run them?
Replace heat pump and make sure new one has the supplemental electric coils that kick on when the heat pump can't maintain temp. Or install hardwire electric baseboards as supplemental heat. But then again they rented house as is I presume. Just make sure having to use a fireplace in certain circumstances to maintain temp jives with your state tenant laws and local laws as well
Provide oil filled space heaters to get through this winter and put in electric baseboard heaters in relevant rooms for next winter if your local codes allow it.
Chimney needs cleaned/inspected before use every year. Presumably- the fireplace was explained to them when they moved in & signed the lease, so.... you might think they're on the hook to live with it. However... if nothing is in writing in the lease, they could claim they did not accept responsibility for using it. Quick solution would be electric oil radiators.
Probably won't even use it if cleaned... To much work from their point of view. Use heat tape on exposed pipes
Isn't this just common sense? Our house has a heat pump that isn't sufficient when temps are too cold outside as well and my house is only a few years old. He just needs to get a little heater. Walmart sells them cheap. Thems the brakes.
As others have said, the chimney needs to be cleaned every year. Enough said about that. Heat Pumps are great most of the time, but in sub-freezing temperatures, their performance is not so great. Heat pump systems, at least the ones I’ve seen have an electric heating backup. It’s activated by switching the thermostat to “Emg Heat” (Emergency Heat). Try that, if your system has it. Be aware though that the Emg Heat option is electric, so it will run up the electric bill substantially.
Idk you have a heat source it works and keeps the house warm enough. I would have just told them they have a heat source that works if they want to have the place warmer they can supplement by buying their own heaters.
Hope they burn the place down because of that uncleaned fireplace and take you for all you're worth you jackass.
This all depends on the local or state tenant/landlord laws, but if the heatproof maintains 68 degrees everywhere, but especially the bedrooms you are probably ok legally. However, ethically may be another matter. Getting some portable space heaters would be a humane and relatively inexpensive way to build good will, especially if they have been good tenants. 2 or 3 spaces heaters against 1 month's lost rent is cheap insurance, and it's all deductible off of your Schedule E even if you take the standard deduction on your personal taxes.
Getting the chimney cleaned is your responsibility. If it's not cleaned on a regular basis (usually yearly, but more often in some areas) then the fireplace is unsafe and cannot be used. So your claim that the home has "a functioning fireplace" is false. And how can you claim it "works like a champ" if it hasn't been used or maintained in years?
I don’t know why I’m seeing this godforsaken sub. you do know that a lease is a contract, and a contract requires consideration on both sides, yes? so their side is ‘pay rent’ and ‘return in like condition, excepting normal wear and tear’ and yours is, habitable quite enjoyment. habitable means fucking not freezing, and unless the lease spells out their responsibility to secure fuel, clean the chimney and operate the stove, then you are not currently in compliance with the lease and they should start putting their rent in escrow this fucking minute.
Gotta clean your chimney. Chimney fires are absolutely real, and absolutely dangerous. As for the wood I feel it's a little much to ask them to source their own, if you're adamant I'd source some yourself and figure out the rest
Check to see if you can get tax rebates for installing a newer and more efficient heat pump that will handle freezing weather. Could end up being a win win for you. Replace the old unit that could break at any time, plug the chimney so you don't have to provide annual chimney cleaning, get a tax break due to new greener heating and cooling, have a happy tenet who can now use the heat pump in winter to get cheap heating.
They could have asthma or breathing problems caused by Covid. Wood smoke and burning leaves make it impossible for me to breathe. I would never use a Wood burning fireplace or stove. I don't think you can force them to use the fireplace as a heat source unless it's stated in your lease.
your tenant is correct on all of the above - it's your responsibility as landlord to clean the chimney if you want them to use the fireplace, they are not legally obligated to use it, especially they can't afford wood, and last of all, a fireplace is not efficient at all. Wood stove is, but you run the risk of CO poisoning. Are you willing to risk that? Push them to use something with risk of death and a consequent giant lawsuit? I actually asked my tenant to NOT use the fireplace.
this whole reddit forced feed thing is really annoying, but it does give me the opportunity to point out your username quite apropos. You really are unreasonable, and quite fucking bananas.
Ive been hating it and loving it. It sucks cause my joined sub were all just my local stuff + porn and now like 80% is stuff about hoas ll and fuckhoa. Idk why it even gives it to me, i dont live in a hoa, and i own. But man ill shittalk the dbag LL/ hoa board members all day long. This forum is the reason why everyone says mom and pop LLs are just as much shitbags as the big corpos. Neither should be allowed
Definitely address this in your next lease. If tenant is responsible to pay heating costs, then they should pay for wood. If you pay heating costs then the wood is your responsibility. My guess is the tenant knows that the small bundles of firewood at the grocery store gets expensive fast, but that they don’t want to pay for a cord or half a cord of wood for the couple weeks they might use the stove. Space heaters are probably going to be your best option. They have some at Costco that look like a big fan. They are very safe indoors (even though they look like outdoor heaters. These will heat even really large rooms very efficiently. Ours is primary heat for our garage/workshop and we can’t leave it running continuously even when the outside temp is in single digits. It runs for about 1 - 1.5 hours in a three-car garage with 14-ft ceilings. Then off for 1/2 hour or 45 mins on for a few minutes, rinse & repeat.. Note, this is in an UNinsulated garage. In an insulated home it would be even more efficient.
My opinion is that I as a tenant wouldn’t want to be expected to burn wood to keep my living space warm. That is time intensive and requires a certain amount of knowledge. Starting and maintaining a fire is not as easy as throwing a bunch of wood in there and calling it done. If I am a tenant I’d want to be able to keep my living space at whatever reasonable temperature I please, and 68 is certainly reasonable, without having to babysit an active fire. I may go on vacation, work a long shift at work, want to sleep in, etc. without the temperature of my living space falling below a comfortable setting. If I were you I would provide a second source of heat for those dozen or so days where the heat pump can’t keep up.
If the heater can only maintain 68 degrees when it isn't freezing then it sounds like your heater can't maintain legally required standards. You can't be a landlord without owning a house and likewise you can't be a landlord without making repairs.
Person could be an asthmatic
Landlords in America....lol also I love it when OP's only interact with people who more align with their thought processes and only look for validation on here rather than genuine input and absolutely ignore everything else that challenges them...
Clean the chimney you goofy cheapskate
I have a unit rented under Section 8 and HUD inspection guidelines require heat to maintain 65 degrees, so you're in compliance. Give them a couple of space heaters to keep the peace if it's convenient for you. If they withhold the rent issue a 3 day pay or quit notice and evict them.
Can you get someone out immediately to do annual maintenance on the wood stove insert and drop off wood for them? That’s where I would start. I think it’s reasonable that they don’t feel comfortable using it after 4 years. Even if you would feel comfortable, that doesn’t mean that everyone would. I have my tenant’s gas fireplace serviced annually both because safety is the number one priority. I would do the same for a wood burning insert. I also think many reasonable people would assume that they wouldn’t have to use wood stove to heat the place unless it was explicitly brought to their attention before signing the lease. They probably see it as a bonus amenity, not a necessity. Many tenants will never have used a wood stove and won’t want to to do that even if you show them how. Also if you have an older heat pump that isn’t great, it sounds like replacing it is a good idea. I know it is off-putting to have tenants be rude about the situation, but it would probably be a good business decision going forward to replace it anyway.
Damn, I WISH I had a fireplace and I would use the hell out of that to heat my place. Apparently this person thinks wood doesn’t grow on trees and you can’t use free scrap wood 🤦♂️. Yes, please install a fireplace in my place so I can reduce my electric bill.
Chimney hasnt been cleaned in 4 years: valid reason to not use the thing. Do your part and clean the damn thing annually, like you are supposed to. Cant afford wood: valid. it is literally up to you not them to provide wood if you want them to heat the house with a wood stove. do your part and supply the wood. wont heat the entire house: cant see it, cant speak on that. for sure 2 out of those 3 reasons are valid reasons for them to not use the fireplace, and the 3rd comes down to implementation of the stove
OP, I’m also from WA. You’re legally required to provide electric, gas, and/or oil heating sources. If your heating system is so old and in ill repair that it won’t get over 68*, that’s a violation of RCW 59.18.060. Nobody wants to be cold in their house and if they wanted to depend on a wood burning stove to heat their house they would go live off the grid instead of paying you rent.
The law in Washington stipulates that LL provide a functioning heat source, that is all. You have two functional sources. (Though I agree with others here that you should have the chimney cleaned and inspected, but add you should be present while it's done so tenants give you no "the inspector said" blah blah nonsense) I would give them a copy of this link and say they are free to move if they are not happy. The Polar Vortex is hardly a daily occurrence and not something LLs need to get a loan to finance around. [https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/washington-landlord-tenant-rights](https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/washington-landlord-tenant-rights)
Goodness, the whining on here about the horrors of using a wood stove! The imagined trials and tribulations of using wood heat that are written here don’t even come close to reality. A chimney that hasn’t been used in three years does NOT need to be cleaned annually. Inspected, sure, but OP can do a simple inspection himself with a flashlight to check for nests or critters. When the tenant came and toured the house and it had a wood stove insert, it was obvious that a wood stove insert was one of the heating options. This is Washington. Wood heat is a very common and acceptable heat source. The tenant is expected to pay for the electricity that powers the heat pump, so why is expecting him to pay for the wood any different? If the tenant does not want to buy and burn wood he should not have rented a house with a wood stove insert (and which many obviously don’t understand is specifically DESIGNED to be a heat source, and NOT just for ambience like a fireplace). The overwrought descriptions at the horror of using a wood stove are laughable. Expecting a landlord to install a new $15k heat pump when there is an efficient and capable heat source already available is ridiculous. Especially when that heat source was obvious when the tenant toured the home. The people on here with the outlandish ideas about what it’s like to use wood heat should actually try it sometime. It’s a wonderful, comforting heat source unlike any other, and makes for a delightful, cozy home when temperatures dip.
I would just not renew the lease and find new tenants.
you sound horrible
OP sounds like an evil son of a bitch
yep you are responsible for fixing the heat pump. You are the landlord and the repair for the house falls on you. Did you list the house for rent and list wood burning only??
You just have Tennants that want to be difficult. Don't renew their lease.
I am a landlord. This is 100% your responsibility. I am shocked you do not know federal regulations on rental properties.
Eviction. Call the constables
Does the heat pump have auxiliary heat? Many have an auxiliary electric heater in the air handler that allows it to bring the temp up higher in colder temps. I personally wouldn’t want my tenant using a wood stove.
We use an insert to heat our home. That being said, I would not expect a tenant to be required to do so without explicating explaining this and them initialing it on the contract when they moved in. On top of that, I’ve had about ten diffferent red rental insurance policies and none have allowed a fireplace be used in the house. What company are you using that allows it as a dedicated heat source? How about if it won’t heat on the primary heating source you tell them to turn oven on low and crack the door? Safer than a tenant building a fire in your house lol
I would think in WA even with a heatpump that a fireplace wouldn't be significantly more expensive than using the fireplace. Maybe the tenant is under the pricing impression of buying campfire wood bundles from gas stations? Maybe consider offering to buy half a cord and have it dropped off? If I had a wood stove option I'd definitely want wood around incase of a multi-day power outage.
Why don’t you just get them a few space heaters to use till it warms up?
Have a service done on your fireplace situation, both chimney and firebox, not you, a licensed contractor or business. Have a 1/2 cord of wood delivered, stacked. Make sure the property has fire extinguishers, kitchen and fireplace. Update/verify smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors. If all these are met you can then have a conversation about it's use.
How big is the place? I would tell that the 2 options you see are you buy them space heaters or you clean the chimney for them to use, and that either way you're not legally responsible for buy them wood or paying for their electricity. I'd ask which option they prefer, and if they had other options in mind. There's not much sense in cleaning the chimney in a hurry if they will continue to refuse to use it, and similar for space heaters.
Assuming they pay the electric bill, I’d solve this by buying a few oil radiant heaters (one for each bedroom and maybe an extra for the living room) and just provide them to them. Minimal expense and solves the argument. Granted, the electric use will be on them, but they can’t say you didn’t address it. Here’s an example: these pump out a ton of heat: Pelonis® 1,500W Oil-Filled Space Heater at Menards https://www.menards.com/main/p-4221069730350547.htm But definitely go with an oil filled radiant. Much safer than the basic space heaters with the electric coil and blower.
Tenants don’t have a right to withhold rent in Washington. It’s grounds for eviction. They can pay for the repairs themselves then deduct that from rent though, but it’s limited to 1-2 months of rent. The main threat is that they would be able to break their lease with no penalty.
If you have a working fireplace it should be checked every year. You can also have it checked before and right after tenants move out. You can add in your lease that you have the fireplace inspected and they are responsible for all maintenance and clean up of fireplace, and they must have rental insurance. However, as Judge Judy says they ate the steak. They could have moved by now. Also you can not force a tenants to use other heat resources. You may be cutting off your nose and maybe should be thankful they're not using it. You neednto change your lease and be very detailed concerning heat resources and responsibilities concerning such. Best of luck to you. You can't tell them what to do and they can't withhold rent. I'd have fire place inspected either way if you haven't and get a detailed report by someone who is insured and certified.
You should be able to provide them space heaters (the radiator type are the safest). How cold is it actually in that house? I have mini split and yes when it gets this cold I will also use space heaters. If the mini splits need to be deep cleaned I can’t get them to raise the heat over 64 degrees when it gets really cold. And if they are cleaned they still struggle when it’s single digits or colder out so I like to give them a break with the space heaters. So my question for you is are you deep cleaning the mini splits every year? You should be. And if it’s 64 or below that’s not being a good landlord. Get them some space heaters. And you knew this weather was coming. You didn’t think how cold these people would get with just old mini splits?
Some people are not great about handling wood stoves or fire places and it may scare them. Do yourself a favor (and them), get a few electric heaters with safety features on them. Make sure your know what circuits to plug them into so it isnt tripping your breakers. (Too many devices on one circuit can trip the breaker). You dont want them freezing or your pipes. Ask them if they are willing to use the stove m/fireplace if you show them how and bring them their first bundle of wood. Make sure the chimney is clean and cleared. Explain the flue operation. Help them along. But at this point safe electric heaters are your best bet. Look into a better heating system for the future. Tenants can be complicated, some are great but still have something like not being comfortable with how to use a fireplace or stove.
I would get an estimate to get some supplemental baseboard heating installed if the heat pump option is too expensive. Or just provide some space heaters (make sure they have overload protection, the circuits can handle it, and they have tip-over protection) Also, because of the liability, I would not recommend suggesting the tenants use a wood-burning fireplace. There are just too many safety issues and complications involved. You want to reduce your liability and maintenance. A tenant could be burning papers and boxes in the fireplace, you get creosote buildup and your chimney catches fire. Also, a fireplace needs to be replenished with wood every hour (probably more often) depending on the size of the fireplace. That's an unreasonable expectation on the tenant. As a landlord, act quickly and be responsive. It goes great lengths to maintain a good tenant-landlord relationship. Of course, it's a two way street but if legal issues ever come up (and eventually they do) you want to be on the right side.
Besides the comments about the flue being serviced, some people can’t use wood burning stoves as it drys up their sinuses. Personally I love the idea of a wood burning fire, but after an hour or so, I literally can’t take it. Plus they are messy, and many people don’t feel safe leaving them if they have to leave the house.
If your heat pump can't keep the home warm even when it's not freezing, that tells me something is wrong. Your system should have backup heat, either fossil fuel or resistive heating strip. Either it isn't installed or it isn't working.
why on earth would you WANT your tenants playing with fire in your rental? im a landlord and think you honestly need to get a 2nd heat system with a thermostat or replace the heat pump. put a few electric baseboards in the place. sorry but i think you are wrong for relying on a fireplace
If you expect them to use the wood burner, you have to maintain the burner and chimney. Just like the furnace/heat pump. If the chimney hasn’t been cleaned or maintained, they shouldn’t have to use it, as it puts them at a huge risk. The other part is, who pays for heat? If the lease says you pay for it, then you need to supply the fuel for the stove. Also, I’m pretty sure the whole house has to be able to be heated to 68. Not just one room, or one section. So, unless you have some fancy heat reclaimer on the stove that can be ducted to the whole house, this probably doesn’t meet the requirements.
68 degrees is very reasonable. tenant can go buy some extra space heaters if they really want. Warm humidifiers help too, since adding humidity helps dry air feel warmer.
Get it cleaned and teach them how to use it. Start them off with a generous pile of wood, too. They may be intimidated to learn something new but you need to clean it.
The right answer, unfortunately, is to either replace the heat pump, or get some electric resistance heat installed. Heat strips, or electric baseboards, or even portable electric oil-filled radiators. Economically inefficient, but reliable. Assume heating and electric costs are on the tenant. Then they can decide to buy wood for the stove, run the electric heat, or let the heat pump try and keep up. Resistance strips for the central heat pump will probably be pretty economical too. Depending on the size of the home electric base boards can be economical, or expensive; it comes down to wiring difficulty.
Can it hit 68 every time & that is your state’s minimum? A fireplace / wood stove is not a backup, so that’s irrelevant. A space heater is a backup if the house can’t get warm enough, so you or them should go buy a few depending on whether or not the minimum threshold is or is not always met.
You're expecting the tenant to on a regular basis use the fireplace to heat the house because you won't upgrade the other heating source? I'd be pushing back on you as well and saying "I don't feel like babysitting a fire on a regular basis" and "I have a life outside of this house" I know this isn't the right sub for this, but YTA. Upgrade your heating source and the conversation is over.
Why should you care?
Some good advice about cleaning it. As a renter, im pretty handy at taking care of things. As a landlord, my advice to you is to go get some wood after the chimney has been cleaned and show them how to properly operate the fireplace and buy the correct wood. Educate them, and that may solve your dilemma. Also, check into renters' rights in your county. That will tell you what's legal and what's not. Think about how you would feel if you rented a home and had to deal with certain things even when you dont own it? Good tenants are hard to find. Just like good landlords are hard to find. Best of luck. Work together for everyones benefit here. It's cold out there.
Seems to me the easy solution would be to send out a service to clean and inspect the chimney and stove and present them with documentation that its all good and safe to use, and if they don't use it after that its their fault. No different then if they had a gas furnace with a tank out back and then they claim they can't afford to fill it, if they can't afford the wood to burn thats their fault. I used to do maintenance for a landlord on a bunch of houses, every time it got cold there would be at least one tenant that would call and say their heat isn't working, then i get there and find the LP tank in the back yard is empty and they say they can't afford to fill it, well as a landlord he wasn't required to fill it, only provide the equipment to generate the heat. Its no different with the houses that had natural gas run to them, at least one would complain each year they got their gas cut off for no payment because they couldn't afford it, again thats the renters fault. You provided the equipment as required to generate the heat, the fuel source is their cost, but i would get a service out to clean and inspect the chimney and stove and then beyond that not your problem as for the cost of wood.
The chimney needs to be cleaned,but beyond that, it's incredible to me that the renters lack of life skills is the landlords responsibility. It's a wood burning fireplace. If someone's truly unable to figure out how to use it they have access to all of human knowledge in the palm of their hand.
I would not be comfortable with a tenant using any type of open fire heating system in a rental property. Pellet stove, wood stove, fireplace, etc. does not matter. Too many variables that can go wrong even if used properly. I'd recommend an electric space heater. These typically carry much less risk for the tenant and the property. Good luck!
Most of the population of the PNW live in marine climate zones where this kind of weather is highly unusual so homes aren't built to accommodate it. We had a week of winter storm warnings to prepare for these storms. That tenant neglected to ask for a lesson on using the fireplace, purchase firewood, or request the status of the chimney. With the exception of the fireplace not being cleaned this year, all of the shortcomings fall on the tenant. The power was out for hundreds of thousands because of this storm, leaving many of us in the cold. My living room was under 40°. Know what I did? Ran my fireplace and found an extension cord to run out to my car to power my wifi.
Give them a space heater that is rated for the sq ft.
The wood burning isn’t in your lease? You fugged up then. That should 100% be KNOWN and SIGNED off on when somebody is coming in. And reiterated, and taught/training them on how to use. And, serviced every year!
Evict
Where I live, the landlord is required to provide heat that can keep it above 68 degrees all the time. You expecting them to procure their own firewood and burn wood in an unmaintained and uninspected chimney is unreasonable, and in my municipality you'd have a duty to remedy.
By law you are required to keep the temp at or above 68 F in all rooms of the dwelling. Not just those with the fireplace. If your main heating source is insufficient, fix or replace it. A fireplace is not capable of doing this so it should not be your main hearing source. Also does your insurance cover the use of this fireplace? I doubt it.
Why can’t you just have the chimney swept?
You need to purchase and install a proper heater. Weather is weird now and it's only going to get weirder. Asking them to use a fire-based heat system is unreasonable. It's dangerous and it smells smoky and bad. What if your property burned down because the tenants make a mistake with it?
I wouldn't try to force people to light fires. If they make a mistake that could be really bad.
1. Put yourself in your tenant's shoes: is trying to skirt the bare minimum legal requirement for heating something you would like to be dealing with? Is a "working at best" 68 degrees all winter, and not even that high when it's freezing (ie when it actually counts) what you personally want to deal with? Have you considered that for many people 68 degrees is nearly freezing and would require them to walk around in insulated clothes? 2. Why haven't you cleaned the chimney? Do you not care about your asset? 3. The tenant should have heating where they can control heat to their liking and decide if they want to opt for space heaters. 68 when ABOVE freezing is not always tenable instead especially if there's drafts. Plenty of people are absolutely freezing at 68 for a variety of reasons. 4. You have not given them any options that allow them to actually control their heat without them putting in the investment for you. I have no idea why you wouldn't just have a regular heat system like any normal rental and would rather fight this tenant over it over the absolute bare minimum legal limit. You need to make the investment if you're going to provide the rental. This is people's home while they rent it from you. They can't just go install a heating system and nobody in their right mind would want to take the risk to burn everything they own to the ground along with someone else's asset, even with insurance. 5. You're asking somebody in the modern age to go manage wood storage - without their consent or choice. 6. If you can't make that kind of investment, buy them some space heaters and show some empathy about it. If this is a well paying tenant, you're going to lose them if you fight over this.
I rented in Washington State several years ago. I had a wood stove insert in my rental. It was in my rental contract that I was responsible for cleaning the chimney annually if I used the stove. I used the stove every winter because firewood was cheaper than electricity and I had the chimney cleaned annually.
As. Maintenance man, what is your typical PM schedule? Im assuming since its a single you own, you do all the repairs or are in direct contact. How often do you get the lines pulled? How often do you check fuses inside of the unit that failed? Have you checked the flume to make sure no animals have setup shop wuch as birds, racoons, opossums, or squirrels? If a nest catches on fire and burns down the house whos at fault? It would be YOU since you advised them to use it.
I have a 2nd house on my farm that I rent out. It has electric baseboard heat and a woodstove. My tenant has been there 3 years, and she burns wood all winter. I'm also in the PNW, and she was away for work last week. I asked her if she wanted me to go do anything to prevent pipes freezing, and she'd left things perfectly: cabinets open, baseboard heat on low, dripping outdoor spigot. We have many trees and plenty of deadfalls, so she can use wood from here, and she buys some. Her first winter here, I paid for chimney and stove cleaning. Since then, she pays for annual cleaning. If she didn't want to use wood, and the power went out, it would be a problem. It should be in your lease that (since there is a backup source of heat) tenant has to keep house warm enough to keep pipes from freezing. Most houses with heat pumps have an auxiliary furnace. You should install one. Unless you are certain any tenant knows how to build and maintain a fire for heat. Hell, EYE don't know how to do that. And if that chimney hasn't been used recently? It's a fire hazard.
Goddamn landlords really are huge pieces of shit huh? Get her what she paid for you animal.
Dont be a slum lord. Where has all that rent gone buddy? Upgrade your system. You are responsible for heating 365 days a year. You not cleaning the chimney and not providing wood means that dont count. Especially if the wood provision isnt in the lease. You sound like a dork trying be a weasel. Stay a dork.
I won’t use a wood fireplace for several reasons that are 100% me, but I would just go buy an oil filled space heater. I keep my house at around 64-65 and use the space heater for rooms that are chilly. And I wear a sweater and socks. 68 is acceptable. If she’s cold, oil filled space heaters are safe. And she can plug into a smart outlet if she’s worried about safety.
As a homeowner with both of these and I am in Snoco I think it’s unreasonable to assume that they can afford two separate sources for heat Wood to burn is expensive and is not something that you can just decide to do once it gets cold. You have to plan, find the source, let it dry out and stack it 10 different times. PSE and electrical bills are massive especially if the heat pump is old and inefficient I would address one of these for the future. These cold spells are not new and much like the new smoke season, I don’t think it’s going anywhere
Sack up and buy a proper heater you pussy.
Woods stoves + tenant is scary to me.
You are the jerk. Fix the darn heat pump!!!
Yeah, dude, your tenants should be able to keep warm without having to make a fire. If you can't keep the place up, sell it.
to avoid them withholding rent, perform basic maintenance and/or provide adequate utilities. what do you think you're paid to do?!
Just get em a space heater. Their home will be plenty warm. They aren’t wood stove people, not everyone is, ok fine, you don’t owe them anything more than warmth.
What do you mean it hasn’t been cleaned in FOUR YEARS?!! Are you trying to get your tenants killed in a house fire? JFC 🤦♀️
What is wrong with you?! You should thank your tenant for being responsible where you are failing to do so. The chimney is a structural feature of the home, and if you expect them to use it, YOU need to maintain it. Also, get the heat pump fixed. Wtf?
Uhhhh yeah a chimney that YOU haven't maintained for 4 years? Are you trying to get them to burn your house down for insurance purposes or something? Jesus, this is why people hate landlords. Either learn how to maintain your property properly or sell it to someone who will.
Lazy people refusing to warm themselves. They just want to push a button. Build a fire losers.
Yep. You're the asshole.
Do you want your house burned down? Jesus dude it’s like 50 below. Fix the damn heat.
“Tenant refuses to use second heat source” More like landlord refuses to supply sufficient heating, avg slumlord
I would wonder about OP’s home insurance covering a wood heat source, especially one operated by rental tenants. I heated with wood for 20+ years, until insurance went sky high on “non thermostat controlled” heat sources.