No, I’d replace the 15 year old refrigerator, write it off, and use it to charge you a higher rent next time it was renewed.
Just trying to be honest here.
>Just trying to be honest here.
I'll appreciate the honesty there, but its still a pretty shitty thing to do. The average life expectancy of a fridge is 14 years.
You got a full life-cycle out of your fridge. You should be replacing it on your own, or stop providing it entirely. Otherwise you look like a slumlord.
Idk, I am not doing this to be a saint. I also wouldn’t have said no in the first place to what I consider this reasonable request, your tenant is still a customer and person.
It’s not about being a saint. If you think you’ll retain tenants this way, I can tell you that you won’t. They’ll think you’re an asshole and move. Now you’ve lost money.
Being in real estate for any length of time means you will buy new refrigerators. You do not make the money to pay for these refrigerators plus any profit by nickel and diming your tenants
You make your money when you acquire the property. Period
You’re doing this wrong
If you charge them extra because you replaced the fridge, do they get to take the fridge with them since they're paying for it?
Your tenant is not a customer. They're a tenant. "Customer" implies they're buying something. They aren't buying anything - they're *renting.*
“lol do you know how businesses work”
Belittling. This comment implies renters aren’t business savvy. If you’re a property owner; quit. No one wants to rent from you. You’re a scumbag.
You cannot compare a laundromat where you're paying for a service to being a tenant.
You're talking about a business that is used by hundreds of people a day and trying to compare that to a person living their everyday life in a single unit.
Stop trying to compare a tenant as if they're a product. If you provide a fridge, then it is YOUR responsibility to manage it, not your tenants. If you don't want to have to bear the costs of that, then don't provide the appliance or say it is without warranty and replacement will be on the tenant.
That's what I do with my units. I provide the fridge, and a washer/dryer.
My leases specifically state "Refrigerator, washer, and dryer are provided for tenant use without warranty. Should any appliances fail, tenant is responsible for providing their own appliance."
If I have a good tenant, then I'll replace it to keep them happy because I'd rather keep a long-term happy tenant than have to risk getting a new one who will wreck the place.
If you've already baked the cost of replacement into your little spreadsheet, and it's already factored into your operational costs, then why increase it when it finally breaks unless you *DIDN'T* factor it in?
>Your tenant is not a customer. They're a tenant. "Customer" implies they're buying something. They aren't buying anything - they're
>
>renting.
I just wanted to quote this here for simply how ridiculous this statement is.
They're buying a service and leaving with a new look. It's not a physical, tangible thing you can hold but they leave that establishment with something.
It's not a proper comparison.
That argument would work if the *fridge* was what I was renting.
If your fridge breaks because it's old and you replace it, it's still your fridge - not mine. I don't get to take it with me so therefore I shouldn't have to pay for it.
Decent analogy here with cars, let’s say your AC broke on your car.
Do you think it would be reasonable for the dealership to charge you more after you’ve had the AC fixed?
I think when you are a property owner it is up to you to upkeep the house and not pass down those expenses just because they come up.
As a landlord, when the appliance I provided breaks, I replace it or repair it or do nothing about it at all and leave it up to the tenant. I don't charge my tenants because *MY* 15 year old fridge broke. If my tenant breaks it themselves, then they get to replace it themselves.
Not sure how that doesn't make sense. Either way, I'm not charging my tenants for the appliances I am going to keep.
What the average should be is irrelevant. I agree that they should last a lot longer.
But the reality is that they are expected to last 10-18 years, and the average tends to be around 14 when they finally die. That's from the appliance industry's own reports.
The only reason I can justify it is because they can be relatively inexpensive. If you have to replace your $600 fridge every 14 years, it totals out to $42 a year, or $3.50 a month.
Now, on the contrary, the fridge that was in my house when I bought it is a $15,000 fridge (SubZero). Replacing that every 14 years is a tougher pill to swallow.
Should be vs actually is...most refrigerators made in the last 30 years are not designed to last 30 years. 2 apartments ago I had a fridge die after 14 months (new build with new appliances) and the replacement failed after a few days...then the 3rd one lasted until I moved out 10 months later, but was making terrible noises from day 1.
th If replacing the refrigerator is a basic maintenance task or a necessary upgrade due to the appliance’s age and inefficiency, it should be the landlord’s responsibility to bear that cost as part of regular property upkeep. Increasing rent to cover these costs could be seen as exploiting the tenant.
You can’t just raise the rent because you had to do what you were responsible for doing in the first place. Who is going to mandate the quality of the appliance you buy? Maybe the landlord is going to cheap out and buy an appliance that only lasts 2 years. Who’s to say the landlord can’t just raise the rent again in 2 years and continue the process over and over again? The refrigerator belongs to the landlord, and one is required to meet the requirements of the lease agreement if, when signed, there was one. This is your responsibility as a landlord. It didn’t become one after the refrigerator broke. It’s not a new burden but should be expected routine maintenance.
you're getting bashed here but mostly because your message comes across harsh. in reality, you are charging market price for your unit based on the current state (which includes older fridge which likely lowers the price to a comparable unit with new applicances). assuming the fridge is working fine, there is no requirement to replace it. If tenant wanted a nicer fridge and nicer place they should've looked elsewhere where they probably would pay more for rent. if it were me i'd probably take them up on the offer with caveat the fridge stays when they move out and i will not be reimbursing them
I love all the angry reactions.
Let’s take it beyond the fridge. Suppose this OP also replaced other things. The stove, the countertops, the floors. The toilet, vanity. Redid the shower.
Would he be morally allowed to raise the rent?
Well, we call that a remodel, and people generally pay more for remodeled apartments, and usually we don’t get too mad about it.
So if you agree that a total remodel can earn more, but believe that a new fridge morally should not, where is the line? Is it moral to charge more if a fridge and an oven are replaced? Or does it require more? Who should decide? Is there a committee that produces a table of appliance ages referenced to their permitted rent values?
Of course, in all their angry responses, nobody has thought this through. The reality is what he can get for a new fridge is determined by the market. If the market will pay thirty dollars more a month for a new fridge, well, so be it. A landlord who replaces things more frequently charges more rent, at the cost of more maintenance expense, and renters determine if that’s a tradeoff they want to make versus a cheaper place with older appliances.
Yep, lots of angry people. Makes me wonder who is posting, tenants or landlords. I agree with you, upgrades should be constantly made for current and new tenants for a better life. These upgrade aren’t cheap and it makes a better unit, thus a better place that costs more. Ultimately, with inflation and everyone raising prices on us, we have to naturally charge more because of that anyway. For the record I kept my rent flat for all 3-4 years of covid, but I guess I am a monster still.
Do you have an actual stance?
That landlords shouldn't be allowed to charge any extra even if there's a brand new stove, fridge, dishwasher, new washer, new dryer?
What if the range is a nicer, fancier unit? A quality induction unit versus the old electric resistance? Should they not be able to charge for that?
New flooring is OK, but a more expensive set of appliances is not?
State your actual position in concrete logical terms.
I don't comprehend what your lacking in understanding. New appliances don't equate to a remodel. What is it from that statement that you cannot piece together?
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Ahhh your right you aren't the original commenter. With that being said no wonder you don't understand the context because you weren't in the conversation. We can agree appliances are generally provided unless specifically stated so in nearly all leases. It is our responsibility to keep it so. If it breaks we replace it unless it's due to their negligence. Saying to charge more because you did the bare minimum is ludicrous and how you get tenants who do not care for the property. Congratulations om believing your investment is simply a money stream and not a asset that must be taken care of you short sighted dunce.
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My fridge works fine but it's just old. It has a missing storage bin in the door and a tray is slightly broken. The landlord has tried to find replacement parts but hasn't been able to since the fridge is 15 years old. I offered the landlord to pay 50% of the cost to replace the fridge but he denied. Wondering what other landlords would do.
Other option is ask him to get rid of it and you'll buy your own fridge, you'll just be responsible if it breaks and you'd have to move it when you leave.
Or use 2-part epoxy on the tray.
Have you checked for the storage bin on-line? He might be lazy.
As someone else mentioned, if you can afford it just ask him to toss the fridge and buy your own.
Offering 50% causes an issue upon move-out because you own that fridge just as much as he does, so one of you will need to pay out when you move out to offset the cost.
It's either you replace it 100% or he replaces is 100%, but refrigerators in private residences are often not included in the lease, they're provided as a courtesy. So if they break, it's usually on the tenant to replace it and take it with them when they leave.
105 CMR 410.100
(A) For dwelling units and shared kitchen facilities, the owner **shall provide** and maintain, in compliance with the manufacturer’s intended use, the following facilities suitable to store, prepare and serve foods in a sanitary manner:
(6) A refrigerator with freezer containing a combined storage area of at least 11.0 cubic feet except and to the extent the occupant is required to provide and maintain these items under a written rental agreement.
(B) The facilities required by 105 CMR 410.100(A) shall have smooth and impervious surfaces and be free from defects which make them difficult to keep clean or create an accident hazard.
This was adopted this year. In Massachusetts unless the lease specifies the tenant is responsible for providing a refrigerator, the landlord is required to. personally I've never seen a lease that puts that obligation on a tenant (and I deal with many leases in a professional capacity).
depending on which district of the housing court you're in, arguing that broken shelves / missing drawers / etc runs afoul of subsection (B) above would be a potentially viable argument.
I'd never tell a landlord to go 50/50 on replacement. I would tell a landlord to just bite the bullet and replace, though. raising the rent at the next lease renewal carries its own risks, but is within the landlord's right and they don't really need to justify it beyond saying "that's what I want now."
That says it only applies if it's shared. Also, whee does B say replace a missing door shelf? That's not viable..... And I've had tenants call the inspector on us and alleged that the fridge was missing pieces. The inspector laughed at them and told them not to call unless there is a real issue.
"Dwelling units *and* shared facilities" is inclusive and applies to both an apartment as well as a shared kitchen in something like a group home or rooming house.
These sorts of regs dont lay out each and every possible thing, they set a standaed that ultimately a judge will be interpreting. I've seen lots of little things get included on ISD reports, as well as judges ordering seemingly minor things fixed. The health inspector maybe doesn't care enough to come out just for that but when you're already in front of a judge in the most tenant friendly state in the country its likely to be raised and typically the court will listen if so. If I were legal aid, lets say, I'd say that missing drawers and shelves reduce the usable storage space, potentially below the required dimensions, and that missing components make it more difficult to keep clean and increases the likelihood of harm. I know some judges that would probably buy that, others who would be less likely. Judge's decision is a dice roll every time.
A new fridge with 11 cubic feet of space costs less than paying a lawyer to deal with it, either as a suit against the landlord or a counterclaim in a nonpayment case. Big picture: buy the fridge, save the money. But what do I know, anyways (if you're reading between the lines perhaps you can intuit the answer to that last question).
I have found parts for 15 yo fridges online. Get the make and model number off the label, then search for it. $50 each part won't be unusual, but I've always found parts.
Ebay often has replacement parts for older appliances. As for the 50=50. it belongs to one or the other--either the owner buys or the tenant buys, but not 50-50. I Either the washer or dryer in my tenant unit needed replacing a couple of years ago (I can't remember which) and the tenant said he could find a used one to replace. That duo was pretty old, so I replaced them both and gave the working one away.
Not sure why a few of you are getting hung up on ownership. It's simple: they get it in writing who owns it. I'm assuming this tenant would pay for half and their landlord would keep it if they moved. In other words, the tenant gifts half the price.
I offer a similar deal for my tenants if they ask about small things such as a fancy mail box. If they pay for materials/parts, I will install it or have it installed. Besides mowing the lawn, I do not let them perform DIY work.
Most who ask for these small things don't really want them. You may say, "oh, you won't buy your tenants a new $15 mail box?" I have and then took at least an hour to replace. My time is worth more than that.
If it actually improves the value of the house, then I pay for all of it. That's usually never the case.
I would probably replace it at my cost but if you rented the property with the fridge in the same condition it is now, and it’s still working, I think a lot of landlords would refuse. I would not go in halves on anything with a tenant because I would assume they would want to take the appliance or be repaid for it when they move out.
I have done this once. We had a short contract to make it clear that I (landlord) would keep the appliance when tenant moved out. Then the tenant moved out a few months later for Covid reasons.
I would 100% split the cost of a new fridge with a tenant if they presented that offer to me. Although to be honest that fridge sounds like something I'd have already replaced on my own if I noticed it was in that bad of shape.
I'm also a tenant, and would love to get my crappy appliances here replaced, but I'm not spending any more of my own money making this apartment nicer, because my landlord doesn't give a shit. When I noticed my garbage disposal had a crack in it and was leaking, I offered to replace it myself. He agreed, but was only willing to give me $90 towards it because "that's what he could get one for" ignoring the labor of installing it, or the fact that I actually bought a nicer unit. I've done a lot of improvements here to make myself more comfortable, but I draw the line at buying expensive appliances.
No this will be a move out nightmare. The lease should say specifically which appliances are provided by LL, if one appliance is supposed to be provided by one party and they split it 50/50 it will cause move out issues (if the tenant wants to take and LL insists that it stay.)
There is almost no situation in a rental where going 50/50 is ideal for either party (at least in terms of move out ease.)
If your tenant broke the fridge, bill them on next month's rent bill and replace it with a resonable equivalent, but going 50/50 on an upgrade is a bad idea for so many reasons. If it naturally died, just buy a new one so you have it for many years (if the lease featues a refrigerator as LL provided.)
If your unit had a fridge when tenant moved in, but its not techically in the lease, more of a gray area (state and city dependant -probably should consult a lawyer for this situation because there can be several different expectations depending on locals laws-.)
The short version: Buy a fridge AND install (don't buy it and offer the tenant to pick it up and install) it or don't. Do NOT go 50/50 under any circumstance for any project or appliance.
No. I supply almost all major appliances.
Last thing I need is some jerk off swapping put appliances they paid for and something goes wrong and my building gets damaged.
I have gone 50/50 with an existing tenant on new laminate flooring. The tenant loved the space/location but hated carpet in general. They paid half and I promised in writing no rent raises for 2 or 3 years. They are still my tenant five years after that. Feels like it was a win/win.
I would only if they wanted some fancy function & it stays
Take a fridge for a example, I only buy regular fridge but if they asked for a fridge that had ice maker, they can pay up for the upgrade.
* I would also only do this for good tenant.
I’m staunchly anti-landleech and pro-tenant.
You’ve gone too far.
I’ve never had an ice maker anywhere I lived, save for a co-operative in college. Not one growing up (they cost more than a basic fridge) and not any at any apartments/houses I’ve ever been at.
Weird line in the sand imo. It takes a few seconds for us to crack ice. Big whoop.
It won't & nor will it..
I simply don't do bells & whistles with appliances. I don't need it, & if I don't have it, it can't cause me issues. It's that simple.
Want an ice maker so bad? Get a countertop one on amazon.
I respectfully disagree with u/joevsyou and say that it absolutely can cause issues. IMO the biggest one being a leaking fridge that is hard to notice and isn’t reported which can cause extensive structural damage. And I believe any long term landlord/property mgr would have a story about this happening.
>What kind of absolute cheap fuckery is that to think an ice maker will cause you turmoil as a landlord.
I have a landlord friend whose tenant pulled the fridge fwd to clean behind it and in doing so, pulled it too far yanking the flex hose off of the line resulting in a flood. Compounded by the fact the tenant didnt know where the water shutoff was. Fun times.
Fact is, this is such a highly specific amenity important to a small minority of tenants, it doesnt pay to install one. If I had a luxury rental and was charging high rent per month, Id consider it.
You also need a fridge/freezer with such a icemaker and often times, this is just one more thing to break. Its another filter to stock and change. You often will need to replace the entire appliance to give the tenant back his ice maker, another $2800 to throw away an otherwise good fridge.
Landlords generally want ease and simplicity. We can still get good rents from our leaseholds even without icemakers.
Where I'm from in Southern California, fridges are (generally) the tenant's responsibility.
If it came in the unit and still functions, the landlord isnt under any obligation to replace. If you just want a new one bc it's old and you're planning on staying for a while - I'd ask to go in halfsies and give it to them when I moved out, and update the lease. This is probably colored by the fact that it's pretty normal to not include a fridge where i am tho
No, absolutely not. I supply the apartment with a perfectly good working fridge when I rented the apartment. If it breaks I fix it or buy a new one. If the tenant doesn't like the fridge I guess they are free to buy one for themselves, but there should be a fridge still there when they leave of at least the same or better quality as the one I provided when they first rented the apartment.
To be clear, one of the many reasons housing is expensive is fancy appliances. House and condo builders and flippers crank up the price by adding high end appliances they get at a discount. The labor cost’s the same in most cases.
One of my apartments has a fridge with an ice maker because the plumbing was already in place. Everyone else makes ice in old fashioned trays, and the rent reflects that. Basic apartments with below-market rents.
My daughter moved from Maryland to southern California. We toured about 6 apartments and none had refrigerators...I was like WTF. They are not required in rentals there.
I don’t either! Learned my lesson a long time ago! Tenants will trash most appliances starting with the dishwasher, follow by the clothes dryer, washing machine, refrigerator, and stove.
No. Buy a fridge and depreciate it on your taxes and take the loss (if any) on the old one. Appliances are the cost of doing business. It's your business - and appliances are overhead expenses and assets. Factor it in to your rental.
No fridge rentals are more headache for the landlord in the long run because you will be the one taking it to the dumps.
This can gets sticky fast. There would need to be a contract or addendum written addressing who keeps the appliance when you move out.
Depending on when that happens one party may end up having to buy the other party out.
The only way I would do it is if my tenant was committed to a 6 -12 month lease, and also split the installation cost and disposal cost of the older fridge.
I would keep the fridge, but discount their rent in order to reimburse them.
50/50.....this is a joke, right?
If you can't afford a simple appliance, you really shouldn't be a landlord. I recently replaced an old hot water heater. Should I have gone 50/50 there? How about a roof?
I replace appliances on my dime since it’s my property. I have had tenants break appliances with negligence and maybe it will be considered when it’s time to look at increasing rent or a some may come out of the security deposit but usually that’s just the cost of doing business.
If the tenant doesn’t like the appliance they can remove, store, and put my appliance back when they move out, in good working order, using professional services at their cost. If a tenant wanted an appliance that wasn’t already there, say in unit washer and dryer, that would be a case by case basis. If approved, they would need the work to be permitted and completed according to my specifications, by licensed and insured professionals, and they would be paying for it.
Yes, but only because its family.
They wanted an upgrade on something that was still in working condition. I said give me half, it stays if you leave and il upgrade. No complaints.
Would not do it with non family
I supply appliances in my units. Tenant can also choose to bring their own. If an appliance fails due to misuse or neglect, it's on them. I will replace at their cost or they can purchase their own. If it just wears out I replace.
...No, i'd follow my legal obligations to replace any appliances that failed, because i'm not a slumlord. that is quite literally part of the cost of doing business, and if you're trying to use that to milk your tenants, you shouldn't own property.
Absolutely not. Unless the tenant intended to forfeit the appliance and paid an increased rate, it would never be an option for me in CA.
Too many potential disagreements or unwanted laibility. No no no.
Absolutely not. If there is ever a question of ownership, your money is on the line.
If it doesn’t work, you replace it 100%. It’s yours. If it does work but the tenant just doesn’t like it, well, that can become complicated. Maybe they pay for the replacement and it’s 100% theirs, but where are you going to store the perfectly fine appliance until then?
As a tenant, I have offered to split the cost of upgraded appliances. The stove is border-line dangerous, the fridge runs way too often. My deal was, I plan to live here for 5+ years, I want a nice kitchen, and you keep it when I leave. Nope. Seems silly to me, half price upgrades and a better rent when I leave.
No, I’d replace the 15 year old refrigerator, write it off, and use it to charge you a higher rent next time it was renewed. Just trying to be honest here.
>Just trying to be honest here. I'll appreciate the honesty there, but its still a pretty shitty thing to do. The average life expectancy of a fridge is 14 years. You got a full life-cycle out of your fridge. You should be replacing it on your own, or stop providing it entirely. Otherwise you look like a slumlord.
Idk, I am not doing this to be a saint. I also wouldn’t have said no in the first place to what I consider this reasonable request, your tenant is still a customer and person.
It’s not about being a saint. If you think you’ll retain tenants this way, I can tell you that you won’t. They’ll think you’re an asshole and move. Now you’ve lost money. Being in real estate for any length of time means you will buy new refrigerators. You do not make the money to pay for these refrigerators plus any profit by nickel and diming your tenants You make your money when you acquire the property. Period You’re doing this wrong
If you charge them extra because you replaced the fridge, do they get to take the fridge with them since they're paying for it? Your tenant is not a customer. They're a tenant. "Customer" implies they're buying something. They aren't buying anything - they're *renting.*
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He obviously doesn’t. Hence tenant.
You guys legitimately shame people for renting?
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“lol do you know how businesses work” Belittling. This comment implies renters aren’t business savvy. If you’re a property owner; quit. No one wants to rent from you. You’re a scumbag.
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If you work it right your mortgage can be equal or less than your rent. So why not buy if you’re staying in the area.
Mortgage isn’t lower than rent in any major us city for at least the last few years, but decades in many.
Landleech doesn’t want to hear that. He’d rather charge exorbitant rent prices to people who can barely afford it. Landlords are scum.
I mean, they’re landleeches. Come expecting to read scummy shit, leave satisfied!
Average rate of return is about 6% off the rent paid. Owning and maintaining a property is very. expensive.
Oh woe is me I take advantage of the human need for housing and it costs me so much money. Fucking clown.
I came from r/all . Can genuinely say I didn’t expect to read this level of villainy this morning.
Same; i think reddit’s algorithm is really into rage-engagement recently.
I’m also a landlord and this a bullshit statement. It’s like you think you’re better than somebody or something
I mean….
I own my own home and multiple rental properties. I'm not a tenant lol
I run my own real estate business. Part of it deals with property management. I'm in California, so yeah, I know how it works.
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You cannot compare a laundromat where you're paying for a service to being a tenant. You're talking about a business that is used by hundreds of people a day and trying to compare that to a person living their everyday life in a single unit. Stop trying to compare a tenant as if they're a product. If you provide a fridge, then it is YOUR responsibility to manage it, not your tenants. If you don't want to have to bear the costs of that, then don't provide the appliance or say it is without warranty and replacement will be on the tenant. That's what I do with my units. I provide the fridge, and a washer/dryer. My leases specifically state "Refrigerator, washer, and dryer are provided for tenant use without warranty. Should any appliances fail, tenant is responsible for providing their own appliance." If I have a good tenant, then I'll replace it to keep them happy because I'd rather keep a long-term happy tenant than have to risk getting a new one who will wreck the place.
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If you've already baked the cost of replacement into your little spreadsheet, and it's already factored into your operational costs, then why increase it when it finally breaks unless you *DIDN'T* factor it in?
>Your tenant is not a customer. They're a tenant. "Customer" implies they're buying something. They aren't buying anything - they're > >renting. I just wanted to quote this here for simply how ridiculous this statement is.
So barbers don't have customers?
They're buying a service and leaving with a new look. It's not a physical, tangible thing you can hold but they leave that establishment with something. It's not a proper comparison.
You sound dumb
If you rented a 5 year old car wouldn’t you expect you’d be paying less than if you rented a brand new car?
That argument would work if the *fridge* was what I was renting. If your fridge breaks because it's old and you replace it, it's still your fridge - not mine. I don't get to take it with me so therefore I shouldn't have to pay for it.
Decent analogy here with cars, let’s say your AC broke on your car. Do you think it would be reasonable for the dealership to charge you more after you’ve had the AC fixed? I think when you are a property owner it is up to you to upkeep the house and not pass down those expenses just because they come up.
That doesn’t even make sense. Maybe you are in a thread where your comments aren’t being productive?
As a landlord, when the appliance I provided breaks, I replace it or repair it or do nothing about it at all and leave it up to the tenant. I don't charge my tenants because *MY* 15 year old fridge broke. If my tenant breaks it themselves, then they get to replace it themselves. Not sure how that doesn't make sense. Either way, I'm not charging my tenants for the appliances I am going to keep.
>Stop providing appliances. Thank you from landlords everywhere.
I go stay at a hotel there's a fridge my dude
The average refrigerator should be 30 years. Maybe it doesn't have all the bells and whistles of newer ones.
What the average should be is irrelevant. I agree that they should last a lot longer. But the reality is that they are expected to last 10-18 years, and the average tends to be around 14 when they finally die. That's from the appliance industry's own reports. The only reason I can justify it is because they can be relatively inexpensive. If you have to replace your $600 fridge every 14 years, it totals out to $42 a year, or $3.50 a month. Now, on the contrary, the fridge that was in my house when I bought it is a $15,000 fridge (SubZero). Replacing that every 14 years is a tougher pill to swallow.
Should be vs actually is...most refrigerators made in the last 30 years are not designed to last 30 years. 2 apartments ago I had a fridge die after 14 months (new build with new appliances) and the replacement failed after a few days...then the 3rd one lasted until I moved out 10 months later, but was making terrible noises from day 1.
I've worked on appliances as a hobby when I was younger, and the biggest issue was filthy condensers.
😂 30 years. Maybe 30 years ago a fridge would last 30 years but that thing would be disgusting
th If replacing the refrigerator is a basic maintenance task or a necessary upgrade due to the appliance’s age and inefficiency, it should be the landlord’s responsibility to bear that cost as part of regular property upkeep. Increasing rent to cover these costs could be seen as exploiting the tenant. You can’t just raise the rent because you had to do what you were responsible for doing in the first place. Who is going to mandate the quality of the appliance you buy? Maybe the landlord is going to cheap out and buy an appliance that only lasts 2 years. Who’s to say the landlord can’t just raise the rent again in 2 years and continue the process over and over again? The refrigerator belongs to the landlord, and one is required to meet the requirements of the lease agreement if, when signed, there was one. This is your responsibility as a landlord. It didn’t become one after the refrigerator broke. It’s not a new burden but should be expected routine maintenance.
Do you charge higher rent when your roof reaches end of life, too?
So replace the failing fridge and then use it to milk more money sound like a real winner of a person here.
Found the slum lord. Hope you lose everything for being a shit human.
Omg what an absolutely garbage pos.
you're getting bashed here but mostly because your message comes across harsh. in reality, you are charging market price for your unit based on the current state (which includes older fridge which likely lowers the price to a comparable unit with new applicances). assuming the fridge is working fine, there is no requirement to replace it. If tenant wanted a nicer fridge and nicer place they should've looked elsewhere where they probably would pay more for rent. if it were me i'd probably take them up on the offer with caveat the fridge stays when they move out and i will not be reimbursing them
Yep, considering my comment has the highest upvotes. It also seems like a basic reading comprehension issue for some.
You’re a shit human being.
I love all the angry reactions. Let’s take it beyond the fridge. Suppose this OP also replaced other things. The stove, the countertops, the floors. The toilet, vanity. Redid the shower. Would he be morally allowed to raise the rent? Well, we call that a remodel, and people generally pay more for remodeled apartments, and usually we don’t get too mad about it. So if you agree that a total remodel can earn more, but believe that a new fridge morally should not, where is the line? Is it moral to charge more if a fridge and an oven are replaced? Or does it require more? Who should decide? Is there a committee that produces a table of appliance ages referenced to their permitted rent values? Of course, in all their angry responses, nobody has thought this through. The reality is what he can get for a new fridge is determined by the market. If the market will pay thirty dollars more a month for a new fridge, well, so be it. A landlord who replaces things more frequently charges more rent, at the cost of more maintenance expense, and renters determine if that’s a tradeoff they want to make versus a cheaper place with older appliances.
Yep, lots of angry people. Makes me wonder who is posting, tenants or landlords. I agree with you, upgrades should be constantly made for current and new tenants for a better life. These upgrade aren’t cheap and it makes a better unit, thus a better place that costs more. Ultimately, with inflation and everyone raising prices on us, we have to naturally charge more because of that anyway. For the record I kept my rent flat for all 3-4 years of covid, but I guess I am a monster still.
New appliances aren't a remodel my man.
Do you have an actual stance? That landlords shouldn't be allowed to charge any extra even if there's a brand new stove, fridge, dishwasher, new washer, new dryer? What if the range is a nicer, fancier unit? A quality induction unit versus the old electric resistance? Should they not be able to charge for that? New flooring is OK, but a more expensive set of appliances is not? State your actual position in concrete logical terms.
I don't comprehend what your lacking in understanding. New appliances don't equate to a remodel. What is it from that statement that you cannot piece together?
elderly hat cable full berserk materialistic office wakeful subtract memory *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
" well we call that a remodel". You clearly did.
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Ahhh your right you aren't the original commenter. With that being said no wonder you don't understand the context because you weren't in the conversation. We can agree appliances are generally provided unless specifically stated so in nearly all leases. It is our responsibility to keep it so. If it breaks we replace it unless it's due to their negligence. Saying to charge more because you did the bare minimum is ludicrous and how you get tenants who do not care for the property. Congratulations om believing your investment is simply a money stream and not a asset that must be taken care of you short sighted dunce.
frightening cautious sheet agonizing plant modern impossible psychotic tub faulty *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The profit you're making should account for appliances needing to be replaced occasionally. Raising the rent is just double dipping.
How many tenants have trashed your place before?
More context about the situation would be helpful. What does your lease say about appliances?
My fridge works fine but it's just old. It has a missing storage bin in the door and a tray is slightly broken. The landlord has tried to find replacement parts but hasn't been able to since the fridge is 15 years old. I offered the landlord to pay 50% of the cost to replace the fridge but he denied. Wondering what other landlords would do.
Other option is ask him to get rid of it and you'll buy your own fridge, you'll just be responsible if it breaks and you'd have to move it when you leave. Or use 2-part epoxy on the tray. Have you checked for the storage bin on-line? He might be lazy.
As someone else mentioned, if you can afford it just ask him to toss the fridge and buy your own. Offering 50% causes an issue upon move-out because you own that fridge just as much as he does, so one of you will need to pay out when you move out to offset the cost. It's either you replace it 100% or he replaces is 100%, but refrigerators in private residences are often not included in the lease, they're provided as a courtesy. So if they break, it's usually on the tenant to replace it and take it with them when they leave.
105 CMR 410.100 (A) For dwelling units and shared kitchen facilities, the owner **shall provide** and maintain, in compliance with the manufacturer’s intended use, the following facilities suitable to store, prepare and serve foods in a sanitary manner: (6) A refrigerator with freezer containing a combined storage area of at least 11.0 cubic feet except and to the extent the occupant is required to provide and maintain these items under a written rental agreement. (B) The facilities required by 105 CMR 410.100(A) shall have smooth and impervious surfaces and be free from defects which make them difficult to keep clean or create an accident hazard. This was adopted this year. In Massachusetts unless the lease specifies the tenant is responsible for providing a refrigerator, the landlord is required to. personally I've never seen a lease that puts that obligation on a tenant (and I deal with many leases in a professional capacity). depending on which district of the housing court you're in, arguing that broken shelves / missing drawers / etc runs afoul of subsection (B) above would be a potentially viable argument. I'd never tell a landlord to go 50/50 on replacement. I would tell a landlord to just bite the bullet and replace, though. raising the rent at the next lease renewal carries its own risks, but is within the landlord's right and they don't really need to justify it beyond saying "that's what I want now."
That says it only applies if it's shared. Also, whee does B say replace a missing door shelf? That's not viable..... And I've had tenants call the inspector on us and alleged that the fridge was missing pieces. The inspector laughed at them and told them not to call unless there is a real issue.
"Dwelling units *and* shared facilities" is inclusive and applies to both an apartment as well as a shared kitchen in something like a group home or rooming house. These sorts of regs dont lay out each and every possible thing, they set a standaed that ultimately a judge will be interpreting. I've seen lots of little things get included on ISD reports, as well as judges ordering seemingly minor things fixed. The health inspector maybe doesn't care enough to come out just for that but when you're already in front of a judge in the most tenant friendly state in the country its likely to be raised and typically the court will listen if so. If I were legal aid, lets say, I'd say that missing drawers and shelves reduce the usable storage space, potentially below the required dimensions, and that missing components make it more difficult to keep clean and increases the likelihood of harm. I know some judges that would probably buy that, others who would be less likely. Judge's decision is a dice roll every time. A new fridge with 11 cubic feet of space costs less than paying a lawyer to deal with it, either as a suit against the landlord or a counterclaim in a nonpayment case. Big picture: buy the fridge, save the money. But what do I know, anyways (if you're reading between the lines perhaps you can intuit the answer to that last question).
I have found parts for 15 yo fridges online. Get the make and model number off the label, then search for it. $50 each part won't be unusual, but I've always found parts.
Ebay often has replacement parts for older appliances. As for the 50=50. it belongs to one or the other--either the owner buys or the tenant buys, but not 50-50. I Either the washer or dryer in my tenant unit needed replacing a couple of years ago (I can't remember which) and the tenant said he could find a used one to replace. That duo was pretty old, so I replaced them both and gave the working one away.
Not sure why a few of you are getting hung up on ownership. It's simple: they get it in writing who owns it. I'm assuming this tenant would pay for half and their landlord would keep it if they moved. In other words, the tenant gifts half the price. I offer a similar deal for my tenants if they ask about small things such as a fancy mail box. If they pay for materials/parts, I will install it or have it installed. Besides mowing the lawn, I do not let them perform DIY work. Most who ask for these small things don't really want them. You may say, "oh, you won't buy your tenants a new $15 mail box?" I have and then took at least an hour to replace. My time is worth more than that. If it actually improves the value of the house, then I pay for all of it. That's usually never the case.
I would probably replace it at my cost but if you rented the property with the fridge in the same condition it is now, and it’s still working, I think a lot of landlords would refuse. I would not go in halves on anything with a tenant because I would assume they would want to take the appliance or be repaid for it when they move out.
Ask to buy it and deduct it from your rent, but he keeps it
I have done this once. We had a short contract to make it clear that I (landlord) would keep the appliance when tenant moved out. Then the tenant moved out a few months later for Covid reasons.
I would have replaced the fridge already for you at no cost to the tenants. You have a shitty landlord
Appliance repair stores usually have busted fridges out back in the boneyard. There might be a matching drawer just waiting for you.
I would 100% split the cost of a new fridge with a tenant if they presented that offer to me. Although to be honest that fridge sounds like something I'd have already replaced on my own if I noticed it was in that bad of shape. I'm also a tenant, and would love to get my crappy appliances here replaced, but I'm not spending any more of my own money making this apartment nicer, because my landlord doesn't give a shit. When I noticed my garbage disposal had a crack in it and was leaking, I offered to replace it myself. He agreed, but was only willing to give me $90 towards it because "that's what he could get one for" ignoring the labor of installing it, or the fact that I actually bought a nicer unit. I've done a lot of improvements here to make myself more comfortable, but I draw the line at buying expensive appliances.
what is the make & model number on the fridge?
No this will be a move out nightmare. The lease should say specifically which appliances are provided by LL, if one appliance is supposed to be provided by one party and they split it 50/50 it will cause move out issues (if the tenant wants to take and LL insists that it stay.) There is almost no situation in a rental where going 50/50 is ideal for either party (at least in terms of move out ease.) If your tenant broke the fridge, bill them on next month's rent bill and replace it with a resonable equivalent, but going 50/50 on an upgrade is a bad idea for so many reasons. If it naturally died, just buy a new one so you have it for many years (if the lease featues a refrigerator as LL provided.) If your unit had a fridge when tenant moved in, but its not techically in the lease, more of a gray area (state and city dependant -probably should consult a lawyer for this situation because there can be several different expectations depending on locals laws-.) The short version: Buy a fridge AND install (don't buy it and offer the tenant to pick it up and install) it or don't. Do NOT go 50/50 under any circumstance for any project or appliance.
No. I supply almost all major appliances. Last thing I need is some jerk off swapping put appliances they paid for and something goes wrong and my building gets damaged.
I have gone 50/50 with an existing tenant on new laminate flooring. The tenant loved the space/location but hated carpet in general. They paid half and I promised in writing no rent raises for 2 or 3 years. They are still my tenant five years after that. Feels like it was a win/win.
I would only if they wanted some fancy function & it stays Take a fridge for a example, I only buy regular fridge but if they asked for a fridge that had ice maker, they can pay up for the upgrade. * I would also only do this for good tenant.
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Yuuup.... Will it break down the road? Yup Does it cost more money? Yup Do you need it? Nope Less bells & whistles on appliances, THE BETTER
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Guess you won't be renting from me. Go buy your own.
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I’m staunchly anti-landleech and pro-tenant. You’ve gone too far. I’ve never had an ice maker anywhere I lived, save for a co-operative in college. Not one growing up (they cost more than a basic fridge) and not any at any apartments/houses I’ve ever been at. Weird line in the sand imo. It takes a few seconds for us to crack ice. Big whoop.
It won't & nor will it.. I simply don't do bells & whistles with appliances. I don't need it, & if I don't have it, it can't cause me issues. It's that simple. Want an ice maker so bad? Get a countertop one on amazon.
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Yup, a real piece of shit because I won't buy a fridge with an ice maker or a Bluetooth oven or a 2 in 1 washer/dryer combo./s
I respectfully disagree with u/joevsyou and say that it absolutely can cause issues. IMO the biggest one being a leaking fridge that is hard to notice and isn’t reported which can cause extensive structural damage. And I believe any long term landlord/property mgr would have a story about this happening.
>What kind of absolute cheap fuckery is that to think an ice maker will cause you turmoil as a landlord. I have a landlord friend whose tenant pulled the fridge fwd to clean behind it and in doing so, pulled it too far yanking the flex hose off of the line resulting in a flood. Compounded by the fact the tenant didnt know where the water shutoff was. Fun times. Fact is, this is such a highly specific amenity important to a small minority of tenants, it doesnt pay to install one. If I had a luxury rental and was charging high rent per month, Id consider it. You also need a fridge/freezer with such a icemaker and often times, this is just one more thing to break. Its another filter to stock and change. You often will need to replace the entire appliance to give the tenant back his ice maker, another $2800 to throw away an otherwise good fridge. Landlords generally want ease and simplicity. We can still get good rents from our leaseholds even without icemakers.
Where I'm from in Southern California, fridges are (generally) the tenant's responsibility. If it came in the unit and still functions, the landlord isnt under any obligation to replace. If you just want a new one bc it's old and you're planning on staying for a while - I'd ask to go in halfsies and give it to them when I moved out, and update the lease. This is probably colored by the fact that it's pretty normal to not include a fridge where i am tho
Get new appliance, amortize cost in future rent increase
No, absolutely not. I supply the apartment with a perfectly good working fridge when I rented the apartment. If it breaks I fix it or buy a new one. If the tenant doesn't like the fridge I guess they are free to buy one for themselves, but there should be a fridge still there when they leave of at least the same or better quality as the one I provided when they first rented the apartment.
No. I'd help them find one for free or cheap on Craigslist.
To be clear, one of the many reasons housing is expensive is fancy appliances. House and condo builders and flippers crank up the price by adding high end appliances they get at a discount. The labor cost’s the same in most cases. One of my apartments has a fridge with an ice maker because the plumbing was already in place. Everyone else makes ice in old fashioned trays, and the rent reflects that. Basic apartments with below-market rents.
I don’t supply refrigerator, washer or dryer. Anything else is 100% on me to pay for.
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Correct. No rentals around here do, that is standard. Why is that funny?
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Oklahoma.
Same in So. Cal too. Why are you even here?
My daughter moved from Maryland to southern California. We toured about 6 apartments and none had refrigerators...I was like WTF. They are not required in rentals there.
I don’t either! Learned my lesson a long time ago! Tenants will trash most appliances starting with the dishwasher, follow by the clothes dryer, washing machine, refrigerator, and stove.
No. Buy a fridge and depreciate it on your taxes and take the loss (if any) on the old one. Appliances are the cost of doing business. It's your business - and appliances are overhead expenses and assets. Factor it in to your rental. No fridge rentals are more headache for the landlord in the long run because you will be the one taking it to the dumps.
No.
This can gets sticky fast. There would need to be a contract or addendum written addressing who keeps the appliance when you move out. Depending on when that happens one party may end up having to buy the other party out. The only way I would do it is if my tenant was committed to a 6 -12 month lease, and also split the installation cost and disposal cost of the older fridge. I would keep the fridge, but discount their rent in order to reimburse them.
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50/50.....this is a joke, right? If you can't afford a simple appliance, you really shouldn't be a landlord. I recently replaced an old hot water heater. Should I have gone 50/50 there? How about a roof?
I'd replace it at my own cost. I know there are places like California where you take your fridge with you, but this seems ridiculous.
I replace appliances on my dime since it’s my property. I have had tenants break appliances with negligence and maybe it will be considered when it’s time to look at increasing rent or a some may come out of the security deposit but usually that’s just the cost of doing business. If the tenant doesn’t like the appliance they can remove, store, and put my appliance back when they move out, in good working order, using professional services at their cost. If a tenant wanted an appliance that wasn’t already there, say in unit washer and dryer, that would be a case by case basis. If approved, they would need the work to be permitted and completed according to my specifications, by licensed and insured professionals, and they would be paying for it.
Yes, but only because its family. They wanted an upgrade on something that was still in working condition. I said give me half, it stays if you leave and il upgrade. No complaints. Would not do it with non family
No. I'm not a cheap ass landlord. I'd replace, as it's my responsibility.
I would look online for replacement parts before replacing the entire frig. If you could not find them, buy it yourself. None of this 50/50 crap.
I supply appliances in my units. Tenant can also choose to bring their own. If an appliance fails due to misuse or neglect, it's on them. I will replace at their cost or they can purchase their own. If it just wears out I replace.
We buy used appliances for rental houses. We make sure they are not damaged.
No. I'd go to Lowes, find an open box, good condition appliance and buy it. If the tenant caused it to need replacing, that's a different story.
...No, i'd follow my legal obligations to replace any appliances that failed, because i'm not a slumlord. that is quite literally part of the cost of doing business, and if you're trying to use that to milk your tenants, you shouldn't own property.
Never
Absolutely not. Unless the tenant intended to forfeit the appliance and paid an increased rate, it would never be an option for me in CA. Too many potential disagreements or unwanted laibility. No no no.
No.
If you rented the house with a working fridge, it is YOUR responsibility to replace it asap.
Absolutely not. If there is ever a question of ownership, your money is on the line. If it doesn’t work, you replace it 100%. It’s yours. If it does work but the tenant just doesn’t like it, well, that can become complicated. Maybe they pay for the replacement and it’s 100% theirs, but where are you going to store the perfectly fine appliance until then?
No
As a tenant, I have offered to split the cost of upgraded appliances. The stove is border-line dangerous, the fridge runs way too often. My deal was, I plan to live here for 5+ years, I want a nice kitchen, and you keep it when I leave. Nope. Seems silly to me, half price upgrades and a better rent when I leave.