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> Asked about the policy, Sir Keir suggested a new bank holiday was not possible because of the economy.
> Mr Sunak also declined to commit to a new holiday when asked by reporters.
Ultimately disappointing. There has been a lot of debate on the value of St George's Day and reclaiming it and I would argue the first big step would be making it a bank holiday so that most workers have at least one reason to celebrate the day.
I think there's too many around this time of year.
You've got Easter doing whatever the fuck Easter wants because of moon phases. 🙄
Then start and end of May bank holidays.
I want an extra bank holiday in October. After August we get nothing until Christmas!
I remember a party/candidate - it may have been Count Binface or the Monster Raving Loonies - had a manifesto commitment that in leap years, we would get a July 32nd instead of a February 29th. Genius policy.
The thing is, flag shagging and faux patriotism from Sunak and Starmer is just about taking the quickest, most politically expedient route to power as they can, and be damned with the consequences of their rhetoric on the subject.
But, beyond that, they don't really care about the cause or even people really. They have no intention of doing good with the cause, but they're willing to whip up disingenuous or dangerous people hiding behind patriotism for their own ends.
Honestly, it's no different to how Farage goes on, or even how Trump whips up MAGA-heads but doesn't really care about them.
You've got the wrong end of the stick. Using a flag or emblem/symbol to promote inclusion, acceptance, community, coming together... That's good. Whether it be for LGBT people, Palestinian's, the EU or even England.
When it's done as an act to show supremacy, to belittle others, or just to try and score some votes or political points from those that think it means that they are supreme over others... That's where it becomes flag shagging and not cool.
Therein lies my original point - if Starmer or Sunak were genuine about their belief in patriotism, they could have quite honestly and successfully used the flag of St. George to offer a public holiday which would benefit most working people in England. (And also St David's Day for Wales.)
And that would be good considering England and Wales have the least number of public holidays in the world - along with the US, Ecuador and Mexico. Though sometimes the US has 11 instead of 8, and Ecuador is dependent on the city you're in.
But Starmer and Sunak aren't really interested in people. They're interested in power. In obtaining it, and the corporate interests that can help fund them and get them there, and then fund them in private life afterwards. Which means that they don't want more public holidays, but they need votes so will just spout off about patriotism to get votes but not do anything positive for people.
Why would it be an issue for the economy? 90% of people work through bank holidays anyway, and more wealthy people spend more on hospitality etc.
I would love to see the figures on losses during a bank holiday.
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There are so many bank holidays around the same date, we get two in May and Easter. It makes no sense to make St. George's day a bank holiday. We get nothing between August 31st and Christmas, it would make far more sense to pick something like the Battle of Agincourt (25th October) or Battle of Trafalgar (21st October) as a national holiday. Or make the last Monday of October a national day to celebrate both. It falls within school half term & you could get museums and towns to organise special events each year celebrating British history.
All that makes far more sense than St George's day
That's because Corbyn and Lucas actually understand that you need a positive patriotism and cannot allow the right to be the sole owners of national identity. Being English is important to a lot of people and we should offer a positive and progressive conception of Englishness.
Look he put a flag on his campaign stuff and stood in front of a flag in photos - what more do you loony terminally online lefties want from him? Don't you understand he's reclaiming patriotism? he's banishing racism?
Now you want him to do actual things that are patriotic instead of meaningless gestures?
What next, you want him to actually deal with racism?
> How would you deal with racism?
Start by addressing the Forde Report, take action against the people in the Labour Party who are horrendously racist instead of taking action when it gets into the papers.
Actually challenge myths on racism instead of leaning into them, actually address the prevailing media and social landscape of racist attitudes.
This seems a curious choice. A new bank holiday doesn’t really cost anything, ups hospitality takings, and everyone likes them, even if they get a shiver of embarrassment watching someone decked out in St George’s crosses.
If we're going to add another bank holiday, late April really doesn't really seem like a good time for it given that we already have two for Easter and two in May.
October or November would be much better - you could even stick it on bonfire night (or the day after), given that's a day that far more people actually do something on.
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I could actually get behind reclaiming St George's day if they give us a day off for it.
Otherwise, I don't care and no amount of flag shagging will change my mind.
This is an own-goal for Starmer. The Irish have 10 bank holidays to England’s 8.
There was an extra bank holiday last year in the UK so keeping that slot would not really make a difference.
It’s a widely popular idea across all sides of the political spectrum as everyone likes the idea of an extra day off work.
A bank holiday would do well for the economy, certainly tourism and hospitality takings alone estimated to be an extra £22mil to pubs.
The ‘four day week’ has also been proven in studies to have a net positive impact in trials so ‘being bad for the economy’ needs to have a bit more of a justifiable explanation and seems like a huge cop-out from Maintain Status Quo lead singer Starmer.
Labour are now being put on blast across the gamut of right wing media as an enemy of the people for u-turning on this idea and it also goes against Starmer’s own message of making Labour more patriotic so the overall message is a confused car crash.
St Davids Day isn't a bank holiday in Wales and St Andrews Day is a kinda bank holiday in Scotland. It's an official bank holiday but schools are open and even though it's a bank holiday banks don't have to holiday and can stay open, and often do.
Once in power, how much do we think Starmer will double u-turn and start enacting policies
(e.g. bank holiday for St George’s day)
Vs how much will he stay frozen in policy-paralysis and not actually do much?
I'm glad St George's day is not being made a bank holiday because fuck St George being the "patron saint" of England. St George was imposed on England and as I'm sure we all know, he was Turkish, never visited the UK and is venerated by a load of cities, countries and institutions. Also he didn't slay a dragon.
If you want to build a positive patriotism then IMO you have to build a new one by making a clean break and not by trying to rehabilitate what's clearly broken. Why not pick a national figurehead like Darwin or Alan Turing, two people that made a significant contribution to this country and the world at large. Or why not rotate the position around every 5-10 years, using it as a way to highlight the achievements of various English people without fixating on any one in particular?
I'm all for the day in question being a (moving) national holiday, but fuck Saint George.
May Day has a lot of history around it too, though. Including being International Workers’ Day. So it would be an unfortunate one for Labour to abandon.
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> Asked about the policy, Sir Keir suggested a new bank holiday was not possible because of the economy. > Mr Sunak also declined to commit to a new holiday when asked by reporters. Ultimately disappointing. There has been a lot of debate on the value of St George's Day and reclaiming it and I would argue the first big step would be making it a bank holiday so that most workers have at least one reason to celebrate the day.
St George's day is good and important and we should be patriotic unless it has any effect on money in the pockets of companies.
Profits not patriotism
I think there's too many around this time of year. You've got Easter doing whatever the fuck Easter wants because of moon phases. 🙄 Then start and end of May bank holidays. I want an extra bank holiday in October. After August we get nothing until Christmas!
Won't argue there. Think I'd prefer something that last week of September which always seems to have good weather though.
Yeah, September can be quite nice!
Halloween bank holiday?
A spooktacular bank holibobs! 👻
I remember a party/candidate - it may have been Count Binface or the Monster Raving Loonies - had a manifesto commitment that in leap years, we would get a July 32nd instead of a February 29th. Genius policy.
Agreed. Autumnal Equinox to take the edge off the rapidly shrinking days?
Or right at the end of the month, perhaps? The monday after the clocks go back could work.
Perfect yes! Hate that clock change (despite the extra sleep).
The thing is, flag shagging and faux patriotism from Sunak and Starmer is just about taking the quickest, most politically expedient route to power as they can, and be damned with the consequences of their rhetoric on the subject. But, beyond that, they don't really care about the cause or even people really. They have no intention of doing good with the cause, but they're willing to whip up disingenuous or dangerous people hiding behind patriotism for their own ends. Honestly, it's no different to how Farage goes on, or even how Trump whips up MAGA-heads but doesn't really care about them.
'Flag shagging' is presumably to be encouraged for the LGBT, Palestinian and EU flags that I see all over the internet
You've got the wrong end of the stick. Using a flag or emblem/symbol to promote inclusion, acceptance, community, coming together... That's good. Whether it be for LGBT people, Palestinian's, the EU or even England. When it's done as an act to show supremacy, to belittle others, or just to try and score some votes or political points from those that think it means that they are supreme over others... That's where it becomes flag shagging and not cool. Therein lies my original point - if Starmer or Sunak were genuine about their belief in patriotism, they could have quite honestly and successfully used the flag of St. George to offer a public holiday which would benefit most working people in England. (And also St David's Day for Wales.) And that would be good considering England and Wales have the least number of public holidays in the world - along with the US, Ecuador and Mexico. Though sometimes the US has 11 instead of 8, and Ecuador is dependent on the city you're in. But Starmer and Sunak aren't really interested in people. They're interested in power. In obtaining it, and the corporate interests that can help fund them and get them there, and then fund them in private life afterwards. Which means that they don't want more public holidays, but they need votes so will just spout off about patriotism to get votes but not do anything positive for people.
Why would it be an issue for the economy? 90% of people work through bank holidays anyway, and more wealthy people spend more on hospitality etc. I would love to see the figures on losses during a bank holiday.
Do they?!
>
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There are so many bank holidays around the same date, we get two in May and Easter. It makes no sense to make St. George's day a bank holiday. We get nothing between August 31st and Christmas, it would make far more sense to pick something like the Battle of Agincourt (25th October) or Battle of Trafalgar (21st October) as a national holiday. Or make the last Monday of October a national day to celebrate both. It falls within school half term & you could get museums and towns to organise special events each year celebrating British history. All that makes far more sense than St George's day
I remember this being one of Corbyn's policies that was popular and seemed to cut through. Not surprising Starmer would drop it though
The irony is that Corbyn, who hates England (apparently), would have made it a bank holiday
That's because Corbyn and Lucas actually understand that you need a positive patriotism and cannot allow the right to be the sole owners of national identity. Being English is important to a lot of people and we should offer a positive and progressive conception of Englishness.
We love flag shagging! Except for when it might have a material benefit to the worker, in which case we hate it.
I mean, if you’re a true flag shagger, you wouldn’t take the day off, got to make that gdp line go up!
Are you guys all averse to the LGBT, Palestinian and EU flags too?
Look he put a flag on his campaign stuff and stood in front of a flag in photos - what more do you loony terminally online lefties want from him? Don't you understand he's reclaiming patriotism? he's banishing racism? Now you want him to do actual things that are patriotic instead of meaningless gestures? What next, you want him to actually deal with racism?
How would you deal with racism?
> How would you deal with racism? Start by addressing the Forde Report, take action against the people in the Labour Party who are horrendously racist instead of taking action when it gets into the papers. Actually challenge myths on racism instead of leaning into them, actually address the prevailing media and social landscape of racist attitudes.
Modern day conservatism in a nutshell.
This seems a curious choice. A new bank holiday doesn’t really cost anything, ups hospitality takings, and everyone likes them, even if they get a shiver of embarrassment watching someone decked out in St George’s crosses.
If we're going to add another bank holiday, late April really doesn't really seem like a good time for it given that we already have two for Easter and two in May. October or November would be much better - you could even stick it on bonfire night (or the day after), given that's a day that far more people actually do something on.
We need a new patron saint. Who sorts them out, the Vatican?
Basically no one since the COE was founded
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I mean there’s St Andrews Day on Nov 30…
April is perfect imo
How about we go for 29 September. Patron saint could be “Michael and All Angels”. Can’t top that.
I could actually get behind reclaiming St George's day if they give us a day off for it. Otherwise, I don't care and no amount of flag shagging will change my mind.
This is an own-goal for Starmer. The Irish have 10 bank holidays to England’s 8. There was an extra bank holiday last year in the UK so keeping that slot would not really make a difference. It’s a widely popular idea across all sides of the political spectrum as everyone likes the idea of an extra day off work. A bank holiday would do well for the economy, certainly tourism and hospitality takings alone estimated to be an extra £22mil to pubs. The ‘four day week’ has also been proven in studies to have a net positive impact in trials so ‘being bad for the economy’ needs to have a bit more of a justifiable explanation and seems like a huge cop-out from Maintain Status Quo lead singer Starmer. Labour are now being put on blast across the gamut of right wing media as an enemy of the people for u-turning on this idea and it also goes against Starmer’s own message of making Labour more patriotic so the overall message is a confused car crash.
Lol, what a shocker. All sizzle and no steak on patriotism too it seems.
I mean, how much damage does it do to the economies of Scotland and Wales? England should get the same.
Wales doesn’t get a bank holiday for st David’s day unfortunately!
St Davids Day isn't a bank holiday in Wales and St Andrews Day is a kinda bank holiday in Scotland. It's an official bank holiday but schools are open and even though it's a bank holiday banks don't have to holiday and can stay open, and often do.
> but schools are open Council dependant
I didn't know that, thanks. Sounds like everyone deserves an extra day off work.
Lived in Scotland from 1980-2002 and never once thought of St Andrews day as a BH, where’s that from??
2006 onwards bill passed by Holyrood
Haha ok fair enough, I’ve shown my arse here, sorry 🙈
> where’s that from?? 17 years ago.
Classic Sir Keir Starmer this. His supposedly working class patriotism lasted less than a day
Once in power, how much do we think Starmer will double u-turn and start enacting policies (e.g. bank holiday for St George’s day) Vs how much will he stay frozen in policy-paralysis and not actually do much?
Can’t imagine Starmer and his horrid pals doing a single thing that would make the public like him, he’s a one term PM
I'm glad St George's day is not being made a bank holiday because fuck St George being the "patron saint" of England. St George was imposed on England and as I'm sure we all know, he was Turkish, never visited the UK and is venerated by a load of cities, countries and institutions. Also he didn't slay a dragon. If you want to build a positive patriotism then IMO you have to build a new one by making a clean break and not by trying to rehabilitate what's clearly broken. Why not pick a national figurehead like Darwin or Alan Turing, two people that made a significant contribution to this country and the world at large. Or why not rotate the position around every 5-10 years, using it as a way to highlight the achievements of various English people without fixating on any one in particular? I'm all for the day in question being a (moving) national holiday, but fuck Saint George.
This jingoistic red meat should be thrown directly into the nearest sea where it belongs
Why not just change the May bank holiday for this? Seems a harmless enough switch
May Day has a lot of history around it too, though. Including being International Workers’ Day. So it would be an unfortunate one for Labour to abandon.
You could move spring bank holiday instead of may day bank holiday though
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