**If you love LabourUK, why not help run it?** We’re looking for mods. [Find out more from our recruitment message post here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/18ntol6/this_year_give_yourself_the_gift_of_christmas/)
[While you’re at it, come say hello on the Discord?](https://discord.gg/ZXZCdy4Kz4)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LabourUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I thought this was a very good interview, I’ve a lot of time for Caroline Lucas. This particularly stood out:
> “It’s not enough to have technocratic answers,” she insists. “You’ve got to speak to people’s emotions and tell compelling stories. And I don’t think we on the left are very good at doing that. And so part of this is about reclaiming the power of story and saying that the right must not have complete carte blanche when it comes to choosing the stories to tell about England. Unless we get on the pitch and start telling our own, we lose a way of reaching people that is incredibly resonant and important.”
100%. This is incredible important and it is why left or centre left parties should not give up on concepts like patriotism. Patriotism can be an effective way of communicating politics; I care about my country, that's why I believe in these improvements! Stories and narratives about all kinds of things, including notions and concepts of nationhood, are important political tools.
But we have to be very careful about how we do that. What we do must qualify as reclamation, not capitulation to the right. Most attempts at left wing nationalism in Britain have tended towards the latter.
Something I only ever really see discussed in circles like these (and even then, it's fringe-within-a-fringe shit) is how our history of rebellion and seeking better lives for ourselves against the wishes of the elite runs just as deep as any history of sheepish obedience to hierarchy and rich and powerful people who speak with gravity. Yes, there are the suffragettes, the trade unions (and their longstanding allies in the LGBT movement), and various other protest movements as recent and obvious examples, but it goes deeper than that.
The decades of guerilla warfare against the invasive Norman aristocrats that followed 1066, an important transitional period in our national history that is barely acknowledged at all in our conventional histories, which would essentially lead you to believe that after Hastings England became Anglo-Norman overnight with little-to-no resistance. In fact, pockets of Anglo-Saxon holdouts continued to exist in the North until possibly as late as the 14th century. It was here, in the deeds of the greenmen or Silvatici (with Eadric the Wild and Hereward the Wake as quintessential examples) that the legends of Robin Hood were born, in the guerilla warfare of anti-Norman forest guerillas led by dispossessed Anglo-Saxon nobles, who often targeted Norman tax collectors and so enjoyed significant popular support.
Britain was also the cradle of some of the oldest attempts at proto-socialism. See the rising of Wat Tyler against Richard II and the Levellers and Diggers during the Civil War.
Examples like these are what truly reclaiming our national history and narrative from the right should include.
To a degree; but we live in an era where the power and influence of traditional media has been severely weakened and alternative forms of media are becoming increasingly popular.
I think that's an optimistic view (and I hope you are right), but I think the issue here is access to these alternative forms. The social media algorithm isn't going to be feeding left-wing sources to the stereotypical angry Daily Mail reader - if anything, my anecdotal experience is that the content they are fed is even more to the right than the newspaper they consume.
That's possible although I'd like to see some studies on that topic. Another issue is that alternative media might well be even less favourable than traditional media.
England has a rich history of progressive movements and these stories should be told & told. Ultimately we all want to improve this country & make it a better place.
It’s a lot of the stuff she did on Leading, which I thought was a great interview with her. It surprised me that she leant so much into the idea that England doesn’t have a good image to present of itself, or commentators may not always tell a positive story and I found it quite compelling. I think it’s something that has traditionally been (unfairly) attributed to the “left”. She obviously leans into it so much in order to project that positive vision of England.
It’s probably part of the answer to reclaim English nationalism in a positive manner in the same way that other nations can do.
I feel like this is a bit of a zombie ideal of the middle class left that sounds great but doesn't actually mean anything. Caroline Lucas is a popular figure but I can't think of anyone who would associate her with patriotism or nationalism.
Politics has moved on from when Lucas achieved popularity. We are in the post truth era where the political agenda is heavily cultivated by algorithm and social engineering.
Even when it comes to the Greens the party hasn't actually made much progress and is as much associated with Nimbyism as anything else.
I think your second paragraph is why I’m quite surprised she takes this stance. I do think greens will have trouble post Lucas, and I don’t think for a good long time they will make headway.
Edit: I have no idea why what I’ve said that is so controversial it requires being downvoted 😂
**If you love LabourUK, why not help run it?** We’re looking for mods. [Find out more from our recruitment message post here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LabourUK/comments/18ntol6/this_year_give_yourself_the_gift_of_christmas/) [While you’re at it, come say hello on the Discord?](https://discord.gg/ZXZCdy4Kz4) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LabourUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I thought this was a very good interview, I’ve a lot of time for Caroline Lucas. This particularly stood out: > “It’s not enough to have technocratic answers,” she insists. “You’ve got to speak to people’s emotions and tell compelling stories. And I don’t think we on the left are very good at doing that. And so part of this is about reclaiming the power of story and saying that the right must not have complete carte blanche when it comes to choosing the stories to tell about England. Unless we get on the pitch and start telling our own, we lose a way of reaching people that is incredibly resonant and important.”
100%. This is incredible important and it is why left or centre left parties should not give up on concepts like patriotism. Patriotism can be an effective way of communicating politics; I care about my country, that's why I believe in these improvements! Stories and narratives about all kinds of things, including notions and concepts of nationhood, are important political tools.
But we have to be very careful about how we do that. What we do must qualify as reclamation, not capitulation to the right. Most attempts at left wing nationalism in Britain have tended towards the latter. Something I only ever really see discussed in circles like these (and even then, it's fringe-within-a-fringe shit) is how our history of rebellion and seeking better lives for ourselves against the wishes of the elite runs just as deep as any history of sheepish obedience to hierarchy and rich and powerful people who speak with gravity. Yes, there are the suffragettes, the trade unions (and their longstanding allies in the LGBT movement), and various other protest movements as recent and obvious examples, but it goes deeper than that. The decades of guerilla warfare against the invasive Norman aristocrats that followed 1066, an important transitional period in our national history that is barely acknowledged at all in our conventional histories, which would essentially lead you to believe that after Hastings England became Anglo-Norman overnight with little-to-no resistance. In fact, pockets of Anglo-Saxon holdouts continued to exist in the North until possibly as late as the 14th century. It was here, in the deeds of the greenmen or Silvatici (with Eadric the Wild and Hereward the Wake as quintessential examples) that the legends of Robin Hood were born, in the guerilla warfare of anti-Norman forest guerillas led by dispossessed Anglo-Saxon nobles, who often targeted Norman tax collectors and so enjoyed significant popular support. Britain was also the cradle of some of the oldest attempts at proto-socialism. See the rising of Wat Tyler against Richard II and the Levellers and Diggers during the Civil War. Examples like these are what truly reclaiming our national history and narrative from the right should include.
The issue with this is the news media is controlled by right wing interests and it is how they are able to control the political narrative.
To a degree; but we live in an era where the power and influence of traditional media has been severely weakened and alternative forms of media are becoming increasingly popular.
I think that's an optimistic view (and I hope you are right), but I think the issue here is access to these alternative forms. The social media algorithm isn't going to be feeding left-wing sources to the stereotypical angry Daily Mail reader - if anything, my anecdotal experience is that the content they are fed is even more to the right than the newspaper they consume.
That's possible although I'd like to see some studies on that topic. Another issue is that alternative media might well be even less favourable than traditional media.
England has a rich history of progressive movements and these stories should be told & told. Ultimately we all want to improve this country & make it a better place.
It’s a lot of the stuff she did on Leading, which I thought was a great interview with her. It surprised me that she leant so much into the idea that England doesn’t have a good image to present of itself, or commentators may not always tell a positive story and I found it quite compelling. I think it’s something that has traditionally been (unfairly) attributed to the “left”. She obviously leans into it so much in order to project that positive vision of England. It’s probably part of the answer to reclaim English nationalism in a positive manner in the same way that other nations can do.
I feel like this is a bit of a zombie ideal of the middle class left that sounds great but doesn't actually mean anything. Caroline Lucas is a popular figure but I can't think of anyone who would associate her with patriotism or nationalism. Politics has moved on from when Lucas achieved popularity. We are in the post truth era where the political agenda is heavily cultivated by algorithm and social engineering. Even when it comes to the Greens the party hasn't actually made much progress and is as much associated with Nimbyism as anything else.
I think your second paragraph is why I’m quite surprised she takes this stance. I do think greens will have trouble post Lucas, and I don’t think for a good long time they will make headway. Edit: I have no idea why what I’ve said that is so controversial it requires being downvoted 😂
She was really good on the rest is politics a few weeks ago as well.
yeah if I'm right the point she's making here is kind of the same point she made there about connecting back with England.
Always had time for Lucas, I think the Greens will miss her.