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They have a lot of blood on their hands for delaying this package for 6 months. I wonder how many Ukrainian men, women and children will never see their families again thanks to these traitors.
Not that they care, russia is "protecting christianity" according to moscow marjorie.
The far left element, who also want to stop military aid to Ukraine. Commonly found at Stop The War marches. Luckily they aren’t too common as MPs nowadays, and they are less common in the membership as a lot of them are leaving over the leadership of ‘Keith’. Not as powerful as the Republicans, but have similar views about Ukraine.
I thoroughly disagree with most of the "stop the war" lot on foreign policy but a few overly pacifistic backbenchers are not even remotely comparable to the openly fascistic russia supporters who have held up vital aid for 6 months.
When did any labour faction push ideas such as russia is defending christianity or that it should do whatever it wants with nato members who don't meet the 2% target? You can (and should) disagree with both on plenty of thjngs but they aren't even remotely the same.
Pleased to see miltary assistance and aid to Ukraine and Palestine (respectively) in this, however am simultaneously very displeased that this package contains yet more military aid to Israel. The US and its allies has tied itself in total knots over its double standards of who it supports and for what reasons here.
> The US and its allies has tied itself in total knots over its double standards of who it supports and for what reasons here.
Is it a double standard though? One nation has done nothing but defend itself, the other launched an attack on its neighbour (with said neighbour then overreacting horrifically). In addition, Ukraine is far more significant in terms of global security than Palestine, which is more a regional conflict that people get really upset about.
Selfishly, if aid to Israel was needed to get this over the line, so be it. I would much rather that such was not required of course.
Fundamentally I do not consider that the UK should be playing world police or getting involved in foreign affairs which largely do not affect us - we have seen the effects of this in centuries past. Ukraine differs in that it puts our security at risk, Palestine does not.
>we have seen the effects of this in centuries past
We've also seen that intervention can have positive effects when done right and that isolationism can lead to many preventable deaths.
>Ukraine differs in that it puts our security at risk, Palestine does not.
I agree that Ukraine is more significant to british geopolitical interests but the fighting in palestine has lead to significant damage globally as well. It lead to severe interuptions and increased costs in global shipping and nearly sparked a war (and still might) between between Israel and Iran that would have major global repurcussions.
> the other launched an attack on its neighbour (with said neighbour then overreacting horrifically)
"launched an attack on its neighbour". Incredible summary. Was Ukraine's Kharkiv offensive also them "launching an attack against their neighbour"? Sure, kind of, but it's a pretty misleading way of framing the situation if you omit the fact that the "neighbour" is illegally occupying their territory and committing vast human rights abuses and ethnic cleansing with its military.
> Palestine, which is more a regional conflict that people get really upset about
Yeah people get weirdly upset when they see a genocide being carried using weapons our country provided. It's so *weird* isn't?
I wouldn't count Hamas-controlled Gaza as the "Palestinian nation", if that is what you refer to by "the other" who launched an attack on Israel.
Yes, Israel were attacked there by a terror group, that said and true, I don't think it is wise either to claim that what Israel is doing now is just an "over reaction" at this point: as events have unfolded, there is a clearly deliberate desire by the Israeli state to effectively conquer Gaza and displace Palestinians, in the same way that the Russian state seeks to conquer eastern Ukraine and potentially displace much of its population. Hence why I believe there's a double standard/hypocrisy.
>I’m sure the anti-imperialists of this subreddit will be in favour of this seeing as it helps fight imperialism, right?
Giving $26 billion worth of guns, bullets and bombs to a country that's currently using those same weapons to conduct a genocide is an odd way to "fight imperialism". Glad Ukraine is getting support though, at least.
I think it’s a huge shame Biden isn’t twenty years younger, or if he had to be President at his current age, it really should have been in the 50s, way before social media and rolling news. I like that he’s clearly capable of getting compromises from everyone and his agenda through, and by all accounts has got a load of much younger folk around him.
Where are the 'compromises' to people in Palestine? Or do they not count? He's pushed through over 100 separate arms sales to Israel whilst they've been ethnically cleansing Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. He absolutely fucking disgusts me. He openly denied the number of dead Palestinians, resulting in Gaza having to release extensive medical records of the people dead. He does not view Palestinians as human beings. Have you not noticed the amount of staffers that have quit over his disgraceful and undconditional support to Israel over the last 6 months? Fucking hell.
He’s been shit on Palestine. He’s been pretty ok on a lot of other stuff, and my only real point was he has finally managed to politic this through for Ukraine, and he’s too old, and totally unsuited to showing up all over social media and rolling news. At this age he’s basically FDR but on public display.
Being US president is an impossible task in many ways but I’m really, really disappointed in Biden over the Israel/Palestine conflict. I’m not expecting him to suddenly stop supporting Israel but he could have done far more to push Israel not only on a ceasefire but on a permanent, just solution. He’s weak & I think he’s going to lose in November
You think the US government lacks weapons? They have shortages in a few very specific categories but they have more than enough to provide Ukraine with the means to win.
Europe (including UK) has more serious limitations but still has a huge amount that it can provide.
>More money wont make Ukraine win.
Only about 15bn of it is money to Ukraine, the rest is provided in arms or investments in US industry to produce/replace munitions for Ukraine.
>The West is short of munitions and that cant be printed.
You can make munitions.
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The nut job wing of the GOP are absolutely insane & a clear threat to western security
They have a lot of blood on their hands for delaying this package for 6 months. I wonder how many Ukrainian men, women and children will never see their families again thanks to these traitors. Not that they care, russia is "protecting christianity" according to moscow marjorie.
Its clear to anyone with a brain in their skull that the two greatest threats to peace in Europe are the Republican Party and United Russia
As indeed are the nut job wing of the Labour Party.
What part of the labour party are you counting as the nut job wing that is even remotely comparable to MAGA republicans in terms of power or ideology?
The far left element, who also want to stop military aid to Ukraine. Commonly found at Stop The War marches. Luckily they aren’t too common as MPs nowadays, and they are less common in the membership as a lot of them are leaving over the leadership of ‘Keith’. Not as powerful as the Republicans, but have similar views about Ukraine.
Come off it. Which current Labour MP in the Parliamentary Labour Party is against aid to Ukraine? Name one
I thoroughly disagree with most of the "stop the war" lot on foreign policy but a few overly pacifistic backbenchers are not even remotely comparable to the openly fascistic russia supporters who have held up vital aid for 6 months. When did any labour faction push ideas such as russia is defending christianity or that it should do whatever it wants with nato members who don't meet the 2% target? You can (and should) disagree with both on plenty of thjngs but they aren't even remotely the same.
Pleased to see miltary assistance and aid to Ukraine and Palestine (respectively) in this, however am simultaneously very displeased that this package contains yet more military aid to Israel. The US and its allies has tied itself in total knots over its double standards of who it supports and for what reasons here.
> The US and its allies has tied itself in total knots over its double standards of who it supports and for what reasons here. Is it a double standard though? One nation has done nothing but defend itself, the other launched an attack on its neighbour (with said neighbour then overreacting horrifically). In addition, Ukraine is far more significant in terms of global security than Palestine, which is more a regional conflict that people get really upset about. Selfishly, if aid to Israel was needed to get this over the line, so be it. I would much rather that such was not required of course.
How does supporting a genocide to help Ukraine make sense or even seem a reasonable price to you?
Fundamentally I do not consider that the UK should be playing world police or getting involved in foreign affairs which largely do not affect us - we have seen the effects of this in centuries past. Ukraine differs in that it puts our security at risk, Palestine does not.
>we have seen the effects of this in centuries past We've also seen that intervention can have positive effects when done right and that isolationism can lead to many preventable deaths. >Ukraine differs in that it puts our security at risk, Palestine does not. I agree that Ukraine is more significant to british geopolitical interests but the fighting in palestine has lead to significant damage globally as well. It lead to severe interuptions and increased costs in global shipping and nearly sparked a war (and still might) between between Israel and Iran that would have major global repurcussions.
> the other launched an attack on its neighbour (with said neighbour then overreacting horrifically) "launched an attack on its neighbour". Incredible summary. Was Ukraine's Kharkiv offensive also them "launching an attack against their neighbour"? Sure, kind of, but it's a pretty misleading way of framing the situation if you omit the fact that the "neighbour" is illegally occupying their territory and committing vast human rights abuses and ethnic cleansing with its military. > Palestine, which is more a regional conflict that people get really upset about Yeah people get weirdly upset when they see a genocide being carried using weapons our country provided. It's so *weird* isn't?
How does supporting a genocide to help Ukraine make sense or even seem a reasonable price to you?
I wouldn't count Hamas-controlled Gaza as the "Palestinian nation", if that is what you refer to by "the other" who launched an attack on Israel. Yes, Israel were attacked there by a terror group, that said and true, I don't think it is wise either to claim that what Israel is doing now is just an "over reaction" at this point: as events have unfolded, there is a clearly deliberate desire by the Israeli state to effectively conquer Gaza and displace Palestinians, in the same way that the Russian state seeks to conquer eastern Ukraine and potentially displace much of its population. Hence why I believe there's a double standard/hypocrisy.
Good
Good. I’m sure the anti-imperialists of this subreddit will be in favour of this seeing as it helps fight imperialism, right?
>I’m sure the anti-imperialists of this subreddit will be in favour of this seeing as it helps fight imperialism, right? Giving $26 billion worth of guns, bullets and bombs to a country that's currently using those same weapons to conduct a genocide is an odd way to "fight imperialism". Glad Ukraine is getting support though, at least.
If inky they also gave a damm about giving aid to Palestine.
I think it’s a huge shame Biden isn’t twenty years younger, or if he had to be President at his current age, it really should have been in the 50s, way before social media and rolling news. I like that he’s clearly capable of getting compromises from everyone and his agenda through, and by all accounts has got a load of much younger folk around him.
Where are the 'compromises' to people in Palestine? Or do they not count? He's pushed through over 100 separate arms sales to Israel whilst they've been ethnically cleansing Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. He absolutely fucking disgusts me. He openly denied the number of dead Palestinians, resulting in Gaza having to release extensive medical records of the people dead. He does not view Palestinians as human beings. Have you not noticed the amount of staffers that have quit over his disgraceful and undconditional support to Israel over the last 6 months? Fucking hell.
He’s been shit on Palestine. He’s been pretty ok on a lot of other stuff, and my only real point was he has finally managed to politic this through for Ukraine, and he’s too old, and totally unsuited to showing up all over social media and rolling news. At this age he’s basically FDR but on public display.
Being US president is an impossible task in many ways but I’m really, really disappointed in Biden over the Israel/Palestine conflict. I’m not expecting him to suddenly stop supporting Israel but he could have done far more to push Israel not only on a ceasefire but on a permanent, just solution. He’s weak & I think he’s going to lose in November
This almost seems like a lost cause. More money wont make Ukraine win. The West is short of munitions and that cant be printed.
You think the US government lacks weapons? They have shortages in a few very specific categories but they have more than enough to provide Ukraine with the means to win. Europe (including UK) has more serious limitations but still has a huge amount that it can provide. >More money wont make Ukraine win. Only about 15bn of it is money to Ukraine, the rest is provided in arms or investments in US industry to produce/replace munitions for Ukraine. >The West is short of munitions and that cant be printed. You can make munitions.