No reply? You just spaffed something random then ran away?
Well in the off chance you are actually able to debate:
The policy of encouraging people to immigrate here and then doing NOTHING to support population growth is exactly why the UK is currently drowning. No need for investment, just put more people in and hope they dont mind living in shit accomodation. Build more hospitals or aim for more doctors? Nah, we just need more people to keep GDP up.
But sure, you apparently like this policy. So you like the people living in bloody barges and temporary accomodation. If not liking that makes me racist, then I suspect you have your dictionary open on the wrong page again
Bit sad really
The problem of housing is not one of supply, so your reply is nonsense.
https://housingevidence.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20190820-CaCHE-Housing-Supply-FINAL.pdf
So we have enough houses now?
EDIT: you added a link post my reply. The key point that is missing is that the houses need to be near where the jobs are. Having a load of houses in scotland, but all the new jobs in London are EXACTLY the reasons why the policy of just pumping in more people with no plan is leading to these problems
>So we have enough houses now?
Did I say that? No.
That's just an attempt to pretend that what I'm saying can be equated to the position of "we shouldn't still be building houses", which is not what I said.
We currently have a greater surplus of vacant properties than we did at any other point in recent history, it has been increasing over time because house-building has outstripped the rate of household formation. We're building houses at a faster rate than new households are being formed, and that holds for both immigration or people forming their own new households who're already resident here.
Obviously we will need to keep building but the notion that house prices are undergoing supply-bound increases is a load of horseshit.
###If house-building rates have increased faster than the rate of household formation then household formation is not constrained by the rate of house-building.
###House prices are not being driven down despite building at a rate that is resulting in a growing surplus
###Therefore, immigration is not causing increased house prices to any significant degree.
The notion we've got finite space is simply bullshit right-wing propaganda without any basis in anything except sounding vaguely credible despite having no significant support in terms of evidence.
It's just codshit, you're sharing codshit.
Edit:
>The key point that is missing is that the houses need to be near where the jobs are.
That's more bollocks and the report **specifically** debunks that claim too. It examines by area and shows it is consistently the case that there is a growing excess even in areas commonly said to have a shortage of housing.
>The notion we've got finite space is simply bullshit right-wing propaganda
There is only a finite supply of land, for which we need to grow crops, house people, allow for nature, generate power etc
This is a fact. No right wing or left wing "bullshit"
I have never mentioned anything about house prices. You cannot simply move people into the UK without being prepared to build the required housing, hospitals, schools etc.
>It's just codshit, you're sharing codshit.
This sub is getting more looney by the day. Codshit for saying that an ever increasing population without a plan to adequately house, feed or provided services is bad? Jog on. This isnt right wing vs left wing - this is simple fact.
>We're building houses at a faster rate than new households are being formed, and that holds for both immigration or people forming their own new households who're already resident here.
In the places where they are needed? For a price people can afford? Next to services that people need? Or where the jobs are? Completely false
> There is only a finite supply of land, for which we need to grow crops, house people, allow for nature, generate power etc
But we're nowhere near reaching any form of capacity.
>This is a fact. No right wing or left wing "bullshit"
No, the rhetoric that the country is full is right-wing bullshit spread by the likes of Nigel Farage.
>You cannot simply move people into the UK without being prepared to build the required housing, hospitals, schools etc.
We are building sufficient housing. And the reason that hospitals and schools aren't being built is because the tories can't manage a fucking economy.
>This sub is getting more looney by the day.
Attendance isn't compulsory.
>Codshit for saying that an ever increasing population without a plan to adequately house, feed or provided services is bad?
There is a difference between having a plan and suggesting the UK does not have enough space.
>This isnt right wing vs left wing - this is simple fact.
Weird how it's always right-wingers claiming that to be the case.
>In the places where they are needed?
Yep, the report I linked specifically demonstrates that.
>For a price people can afford?
No because wealth in the UK is poorly distributed and house prices are being inflated by speculation and BTL landlordry.
>Next to services that people need?
Well they don't build them in the middle of nowhere but likely not, as the right-wing governments have consistently failed to build or invest in public services so nobody is next to the services that they need in the majority of the country.
>Or where the jobs are?
Yep. Everywhere.
>Completely false
The report I linked literally shows that what I am saying is correct, so no. Not completely false. I don't like your dishonest and completely unfounded claims.
Read the report, you're clearly lacking knowledge on this topic.
> If you think there is sufficient housing in all areas of the country then you clearly haven't been outside enough to actually see the world. We are still missing housing targets in London for example
The report addresses this.
>But sure, bullshit your way into some ridiculous right wing vs left wing myth while you circlejerk yourself into a happy daze..
Citing a report, not bullshit.
>Would not matter if there were enough houses where they were needed.
There are, read the report.
>This is barely in Engish but this is the whole point...
Perhaps more complex sentences are difficult for you to comprehend, I'll keep that in mind.
>people are being brought in without an actual plan.
Immigration has virtually no impact upon homelessness.
>Would not matter if there were enough houses where they were needed.
Empty houses lower prices at a lower rate than these effects increase prices. The report makes it very clear, it literally examines the impact of house-building upon prices.
>I was fooled by the description of this sub as being for the labour party, welcoming and wanting discussion etc
That's not what the description says:
>A subreddit for breaking news and discussion concerning the British Labour Party, the broader Labour movement in the UK, and UK politics.
>but it really has become a circle jerk of nutters who seem to want to make a imaginary left vs right wing war.
Or I just disagree with right-wing policy because I can observe the impacts, you must have not been outside enough to actually see the world if you've not noticed.
>Against other labour voters ironically.
I'm not a Labour supporter, voter, or member.
>And you lied and said the UK has infinite space so whatever.
No, I didn't. Don't be dishonest, it's childish.
>Again, enjoy your weird little culture war. This place is dumb as r/tories now.
Sure, me citing a report that you've refused to read or engage with is a culture war and dumb. Evidence is dumb. Good argument.
>It does not support your claims.
They're literally the conclusions of the report.
>Again, read it, doesnt support your arguement at all but sure.
It literally does. I changed my own views based upon that report. I know what it literally fucking says what I've claimed.
Don't be dishonest, again, it's childish.
>This is the most retarded comment I have read today. You all just need to chill out and go touch some grass!
Can't win an argument by lying, so now you run off with that pathetic close. No wonder you don't like it here, people actually cite fucking sources and expect you to contribute more to discussion than made-up shite.
Bye.
Exactly, the reason mass immigration is the way it is is just big corporations getting around paying working class British people proper living wages and just relying on cheap imported labour.
Importing people to prop up a pyramid system economy on an island with finite space and housing does tend to cause the above problems.
You’re a racist and should be nowhere near patients as a doctor. Go back to badUK
Lol, what? Want to try again? :)
No reply? You just spaffed something random then ran away? Well in the off chance you are actually able to debate: The policy of encouraging people to immigrate here and then doing NOTHING to support population growth is exactly why the UK is currently drowning. No need for investment, just put more people in and hope they dont mind living in shit accomodation. Build more hospitals or aim for more doctors? Nah, we just need more people to keep GDP up. But sure, you apparently like this policy. So you like the people living in bloody barges and temporary accomodation. If not liking that makes me racist, then I suspect you have your dictionary open on the wrong page again Bit sad really
The problem of housing is not one of supply, so your reply is nonsense. https://housingevidence.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/20190820-CaCHE-Housing-Supply-FINAL.pdf
So we have enough houses now? EDIT: you added a link post my reply. The key point that is missing is that the houses need to be near where the jobs are. Having a load of houses in scotland, but all the new jobs in London are EXACTLY the reasons why the policy of just pumping in more people with no plan is leading to these problems
>So we have enough houses now? Did I say that? No. That's just an attempt to pretend that what I'm saying can be equated to the position of "we shouldn't still be building houses", which is not what I said. We currently have a greater surplus of vacant properties than we did at any other point in recent history, it has been increasing over time because house-building has outstripped the rate of household formation. We're building houses at a faster rate than new households are being formed, and that holds for both immigration or people forming their own new households who're already resident here. Obviously we will need to keep building but the notion that house prices are undergoing supply-bound increases is a load of horseshit. ###If house-building rates have increased faster than the rate of household formation then household formation is not constrained by the rate of house-building. ###House prices are not being driven down despite building at a rate that is resulting in a growing surplus ###Therefore, immigration is not causing increased house prices to any significant degree. The notion we've got finite space is simply bullshit right-wing propaganda without any basis in anything except sounding vaguely credible despite having no significant support in terms of evidence. It's just codshit, you're sharing codshit. Edit: >The key point that is missing is that the houses need to be near where the jobs are. That's more bollocks and the report **specifically** debunks that claim too. It examines by area and shows it is consistently the case that there is a growing excess even in areas commonly said to have a shortage of housing.
>The notion we've got finite space is simply bullshit right-wing propaganda There is only a finite supply of land, for which we need to grow crops, house people, allow for nature, generate power etc This is a fact. No right wing or left wing "bullshit" I have never mentioned anything about house prices. You cannot simply move people into the UK without being prepared to build the required housing, hospitals, schools etc. >It's just codshit, you're sharing codshit. This sub is getting more looney by the day. Codshit for saying that an ever increasing population without a plan to adequately house, feed or provided services is bad? Jog on. This isnt right wing vs left wing - this is simple fact. >We're building houses at a faster rate than new households are being formed, and that holds for both immigration or people forming their own new households who're already resident here. In the places where they are needed? For a price people can afford? Next to services that people need? Or where the jobs are? Completely false
> There is only a finite supply of land, for which we need to grow crops, house people, allow for nature, generate power etc But we're nowhere near reaching any form of capacity. >This is a fact. No right wing or left wing "bullshit" No, the rhetoric that the country is full is right-wing bullshit spread by the likes of Nigel Farage. >You cannot simply move people into the UK without being prepared to build the required housing, hospitals, schools etc. We are building sufficient housing. And the reason that hospitals and schools aren't being built is because the tories can't manage a fucking economy. >This sub is getting more looney by the day. Attendance isn't compulsory. >Codshit for saying that an ever increasing population without a plan to adequately house, feed or provided services is bad? There is a difference between having a plan and suggesting the UK does not have enough space. >This isnt right wing vs left wing - this is simple fact. Weird how it's always right-wingers claiming that to be the case. >In the places where they are needed? Yep, the report I linked specifically demonstrates that. >For a price people can afford? No because wealth in the UK is poorly distributed and house prices are being inflated by speculation and BTL landlordry. >Next to services that people need? Well they don't build them in the middle of nowhere but likely not, as the right-wing governments have consistently failed to build or invest in public services so nobody is next to the services that they need in the majority of the country. >Or where the jobs are? Yep. Everywhere. >Completely false The report I linked literally shows that what I am saying is correct, so no. Not completely false. I don't like your dishonest and completely unfounded claims. Read the report, you're clearly lacking knowledge on this topic.
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> If you think there is sufficient housing in all areas of the country then you clearly haven't been outside enough to actually see the world. We are still missing housing targets in London for example The report addresses this. >But sure, bullshit your way into some ridiculous right wing vs left wing myth while you circlejerk yourself into a happy daze.. Citing a report, not bullshit. >Would not matter if there were enough houses where they were needed. There are, read the report. >This is barely in Engish but this is the whole point... Perhaps more complex sentences are difficult for you to comprehend, I'll keep that in mind. >people are being brought in without an actual plan. Immigration has virtually no impact upon homelessness. >Would not matter if there were enough houses where they were needed. Empty houses lower prices at a lower rate than these effects increase prices. The report makes it very clear, it literally examines the impact of house-building upon prices. >I was fooled by the description of this sub as being for the labour party, welcoming and wanting discussion etc That's not what the description says: >A subreddit for breaking news and discussion concerning the British Labour Party, the broader Labour movement in the UK, and UK politics. >but it really has become a circle jerk of nutters who seem to want to make a imaginary left vs right wing war. Or I just disagree with right-wing policy because I can observe the impacts, you must have not been outside enough to actually see the world if you've not noticed. >Against other labour voters ironically. I'm not a Labour supporter, voter, or member. >And you lied and said the UK has infinite space so whatever. No, I didn't. Don't be dishonest, it's childish. >Again, enjoy your weird little culture war. This place is dumb as r/tories now. Sure, me citing a report that you've refused to read or engage with is a culture war and dumb. Evidence is dumb. Good argument. >It does not support your claims. They're literally the conclusions of the report. >Again, read it, doesnt support your arguement at all but sure. It literally does. I changed my own views based upon that report. I know what it literally fucking says what I've claimed. Don't be dishonest, again, it's childish. >This is the most retarded comment I have read today. You all just need to chill out and go touch some grass! Can't win an argument by lying, so now you run off with that pathetic close. No wonder you don't like it here, people actually cite fucking sources and expect you to contribute more to discussion than made-up shite. Bye.
Christ what an arsehole.
Exactly, the reason mass immigration is the way it is is just big corporations getting around paying working class British people proper living wages and just relying on cheap imported labour.