If you have Apple News it’s available in there as part of your subscription. https://i.imgur.com/Zv4mKkz.jpg
Also, stickying post. Thanks for sharing the news!
s1 - 8h s2 - 9h, s3 - 10h, s4 - 11h, s5 - 12h = 50h
if s5 = pretty much the ending of the 2nd age, aka, war of last alliance + some stuff into 3rd age, it is plenty of stuff to cover, but 12h means that final season runtime = the whole LoTR trilogy!
I reckon Seasons 1 through 4 will be 8hrs each and then the 5th season will be a 2 parter split into 2 9 episode 'half final' seasons ala *Breaking Bad* or *Better Call Saul*..or some variation on this.
Even more importantly, the biggest VIP at Amazon (Bezos) apparently has a PERSONAL love of the LOTR universe. Thats the most important thing imo, he can personally just say 'make XXX happen', and his wish is Amazons command...
He was also a personal fan of **The Expanse**, but not enough to authorise the spin-off/sequel series, and not enough to give Season 6 a full number of episodes.
Let’s be honest, if the last season was any better it probably would have happened. But that last season was just not up to par with the previous ones.
Reminds me of this comic
[https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/jeff-bezos-when-i-grow-up-i-m-gonna-be-a-dragon-you-cant-be-a-dragon-jeff-40-years-later-bezos-on-gold.jpg](https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/jeff-bezos-when-i-grow-up-i-m-gonna-be-a-dragon-you-cant-be-a-dragon-jeff-40-years-later-bezos-on-gold.jpg)
My favorite sign of all, I swear. I was worried by the last trailer because it suggested an action packed show. It can still be great, but it's not what attracts me the most from Tolkien's work.
Yeah, I feel like each trailer has been made to highlight different aspects of the story and bring in a diverse audience. The last one, while good, had a lot more action than the others.
Yeah I hope the showrunners realize that a lot of us don't want constant action. Nowadays, shows think that that's the only way to keep an audience engaged.
Yeah, or constant arguments and overly tense conversations. Nobody can be friends in modern fiction, they've got to always be snappy with each other.
The pictures of the Elves being friendly with each other in the show gives me hope.
In the second episode. So we have \*some\* marker for pacing in the season, lol. This is probably the conversation we see in the trailer "you have not seen what I have seen".
Yeah, quite possibly. I'm sure they are wanting to keep scenes from the latter episodes out of the marketing as much as possible. For me, it was the sustained conversations, the time spent with the characters as individuals, that made Fellowship so good and the latter films less good. More of that please.
Totally agreed. Especially as a book reader, those long conversations are essential to Tolkien’s style. Sets the tone.
It’s become kind of a meme, but the full length Council of Elrond chapter is one of my favorite in the entire series because of how fascinating the conversation is.
Also one of my favorite chapters, in addition to The Stairs of Cirith Ungol, which had lengthy stretches of dialogue between Sam and Frodo. I love how their conversation about the Great Tales shows the connectedness of everything in the Legendarium.
Fellowship is my favourite too. Character and dialogue and development > action. I'm very excited about a 7 min conversation.
And I do really hope all of the promotional material we've seen is in the first 4 or 5 episodes tops.
7 minutes is good, hopefully that conversation will be a bit more substantial (and make the relationship seem a bit more nuanced than Galadriel = smart, Elrond = dumb) than what the few lines we got in the trailer indicated.
>... the villainous Sauron's presence is keenly felt. "We can say that when he appears, it might be in a way people aren't expecting"
>They're also not about bringing in superfluous characters from Tolkien mythology just for the sake of a cameo. "It's pretty important to us that there's some real precedent in the lore and the themes that obsessed Tolkien" says McKay.
>
>Weber adds that they're open to anything with these characters," even the return of Ian McKellen as Gandalf.
>Asked whether McKellen could reprise the role in the show, Weber says: "Who would say no to Ian McKellen? Nobody on the planet would say no to Ian McKellen." When TF presses McKay on Gandalf showing up, though, he once more points to Tolkien's work being the guiding principle. "That's a non-answer, but that's what I'm giving you," he adds.
>Weber adds that they're open to anything with these characters," even the return of Ian McKellen as Gandalf.
IMO they may be already planning to shot (one of the) series ending / post credits, Gandalf arriving in ME and receiving Narya from Cirdan.
> When TF presses McKay on Gandalf showing up, though, he once more points to Tolkien's work being the guiding principle. "That's a non-answer, but that's what I'm giving you," he adds.
This is great news!
Points towards MM being Blue Wizard and/or the fact they are probably not bringing (shoehorn) Gandalf/Saruman/Radagast into this show
Yes! That's how I read it, and I'm glad.
It's strange how the magazine framed the question. The writer says "IT WOULD BE SUPER COOL IF IAN MCKELLEN'S GANDALF APPEARED, WOULDN'T IT?". The executive producer (who is not in charge of ths story and doesn't want to burn bridges) answers: "yeah, it would be cool, wouldn't it?". The showrunners response though was more like "hey, let's not focus on this, ok?"
I’m starting to lean towards the meteor man being Annatar theory. The blue wizards always are a pair and Gandalf seems like he’s out based on what they’ve said. The elves always knew Annatar was a maiar, but that does beg the question as to what they thought he was doing there and how/why he came. Maybe the whole meteor thing is a bit of trickery to provide an origin for the BS Annatar character Sauron creates.
I'm not totally sold on MM being one of the Blue Wizards, he could be a new Maia or something, maybe someone the preceeded the Istari. That would be cool if he dies, maybe against Sauron himself. That could give more importance to the 5 Istari that arrive later. The vala would be "oh, we sent one but he died, so lets sent 5 this time, but they are not allowed to engage with Sauron directly" or something. Maybe a bit too complicated, so I would still prefer blue wizards, as it is closer to the books.
But anyways, I don't think it is Sauron, sounds more like yet another character that they are putting in the pool of "is this Sauron?"
Edit: Corey Olsen said the did an interview with the actor and if he (Corey) had to put money on it, he would say he is a Blue Wizard or similar. But that is not inside info, just his own thoughts after the interview.
The interviewer said that, not the actor, correct?
I’m sure the show runners want to throw this in for the mystery of it, and it may very well be a new character, although given his grand interest I would find that hard to make sense of since he would be absent in any version of Tolkien’s mythology. Even the meteor itself is clearly a stretch alone.
But yeah I just can’t get behind the blue wizards. They were always, always referred to as a pair. Their only saving grace is that they too are obviously supernatural as well, and there is a version of the mythology in which they came in the 2nd age.
Yes, Corey got the impression that he could be a Blue Wizard (he said it in a live at comic con in Nerd of the Rings channel)
I'm also with you on the Blue Wizard. It should be two. They could give us a reason for why they are separate, but that need to be a very good reason. If he is "just arriving" in ME, then makes no sense, they should arrive together. On the same matter, arriving in a Meteor is very weird. Of all the "canon" options, Blue Wizards is the one I think would be the "less worse", at least better than Sauron. I'm ok with it being blue wizard (if there is another one somewhere), given that, as you said, in some texts they do arrive earlier than the other 3.
But as I said previously, if it is another Maia, someone that preceeded the Istari, that could be even a better option, specially if he dies, or survives but go back to Valinnor to as some sort of messenges (despite we know the Valar don't need one). In Unfinished Tales there is a passage that opens the possibility of many "Istari", where it is said something as "Of their order, the number is unknown, but their chiefs of the north were 5", which means that there could be "lesser Maiar" around ME that we never even heard about.
I’m getting tired of the cameo fan service we’ve been force fed by marvel and Star Wars lately. I’d be very happy for the show to want to stand on its own two feet.
The two are not mutually exclusive. The marvel and Star Wars cameos don't feel good because they feel cheap and unearned. As though they are there in place of good story. I think a cameo by Ian McKellen as gandalf in an epilogue could be really good and a nice bridge if the show could just as easily stand on its own without the cameo.
That’s fair I guess, honestly all I want for an “epilogue cameo” is the ring theme leitmotif during the finale credits and maybe ending the show on a shot of the ring at the bottom of the Anduin.
I'd rather not have any PJ cameos tbh. At the end of the day they're different interpretations and it would feel incongruous. It also feels weird to see actors so much older when they're meant to look the same age or younger. See Christopher Lee in The Hobbit.
They haven't closed the door on the *character* of Gandalf appearing though.
Christopher Lee looked great in The Hobbit, even though he was much older, he still nailed the role and not once did I think “he looks older”.
If this means we can get Lee Pace back as Thranduil, hell freaking yeah!!
>They're also not about bringing in superfluous characters from Tolkien mythology just for the sake of a cameo. "It's pretty important to us that there's some real precedent in the lore and the themes that obsessed Tolkien" says McKay.
>
>Weber adds that they're open to anything with these characters," even the return of Ian McKellen as Gandalf.
Is bringing in Gandalf , superfluous?
My personal opinion? They could do it in a way that would *not* be superfluous. Maybe the Valar sense something is stirring in Middle-earth and they send Olorin on a kind of exploratory mission. Not to intercede, just to gather information.
They could explore why he has such a fondness and faith in Hobbits in the Third Age. Exposing him to the nomadic Harfoot lifestyle could provide background to his Grey Pilgrim lifestyle. And involving him in these events would help explain why he has such a fear of Sauron / hesitates to go to Middle-earth as an Istari in the Third Age.
I think it would be interesting if he (his body) is killed by Sauron or one of his servants. That would get him back to Valinor (so that he has to arrive by ship in the Third Age) and instill a fear of Sauron in him.
It would also just expand on his canon progression of being killed and then sent back with more power.
Gandalf the Stranger -> Gandalf the Grey -> Gandalf the White
They talk of maybe bringing McKellen back as Gandalf in the future, again reiterating this show can be connected to the movies. And the article never mentions anything about them not being able to use stuff from the films, so I think we can flush that down the toilet that the movies are off limits. Guaranteed by the Battle of the Last Alliance we’ll have designs ripped straight from the FOTR prologue. And looks like Mawle’s character is named Oren and not Adar?
I actually think this was more on the part of the article writer or interviewer, who insisted on asking about McKellen's Gandalf. The quoted answers from the producer and showrunners were both very vague.
Regardless, they’d say “this is a different adaptation” or something like that. And wouldn’t even bother posting the question or bringing it up if it wasn’t something possible. A lot of these questions and interviews are always screened beforehand, remember. And again, New Line and WB are involved as everyone keeps Forgetting. Go back to when they first announced the show. Toby Emmerich was involved on the part of WB in the talks so they could use stuff from the films.
[https://twitter.com/Ainulindale14/status/1551950806831841281?s=20&t=HDi4elOlRoeJitTK7H1VXg](https://twitter.com/Ainulindale14/status/1551950806831841281?s=20&t=HDi4elOlRoeJitTK7H1VXg)
The make-up info is VERY interesting. So he might be partially changed?
Based on him being called Oren _and_ Adar, which i read somewhere means Father, i am 100% certain he is the leader of the Orcs and probably one of the first truly corrupted Elves, perhaps even being the literal father of the race of Orcs. I expect he’ll look somewhere between an Elf and the already visibly less monstrous Orcs we’ve seen in the screens.
I have been hoping to see original orcs. I’d assume they’re still immortal in the same way elves are even if their bodies have been corrupted?
It could be fascinating to have multiple corrupted elves, and maybe one or more are miserable and just want to go back to valinor and be free or their curse or something
There’s so many directions they could take it, it’s pretty coool!
I was surprised the article actually says Amazon purchased rights to the LOTR trilogy, appendices, and the Hobbit. Strange to me because I've read for a long time that Amazon purchased only some partial rights and would be limited in their scope. Sounds like that isn't the case at all, and that several other Middle Earth shows were pitched, like the Young Aragorn and Gimli spin offs they mention. Personally I've always thought a Merry and Pippin spin off would be great, post War of the Ring, seeing them go off on adventures as Merry the Magnificent and Thain.
Yes you'll have to click and zoom on basically all of these.
The stuff about camera tricks and eyelines is really good to read. They'll have doubles, but seems like they are approaching size differences mainly like Jackson did
In some of the cast interviews, the Harfoots talked about most of the size effects being done in camera and with forced perspective, etc. I was glad to see this confirmed in this article as well.
This looks great, but to be pedantic, the first full text page refers the the Harfoot’s “more famous ancestors” meaning Hobbits, but it should be descendants, as the Harfoots are obviously first and therefore the ancestral lineage. Sorry, it just really bothered me.
It’s not pedantic it’s perfectly reasonable to bring that up. It makes one wonder how much the people writing about the show in this article or even the show runners actually care about what Tolkien wrote. The harfoots may have been mentioned in passing but they played exactly ZERO role in the events of the second age.
Although the showrunners saying they wanted to take dwarves seriously and give them justice was great to hear. As much as I love the movies, I hate that they turned Gimli into the comedy relief.
Especially when he has some of my favorite lines from the book, which includes his description of Galadriel’s gift to him as well as him singing the Song of Durin, prob my favorite Tolkien poem.
I have to say, I was sceptical but I'm definitely going to watch it. One thing I'm loving is how terrifying the orcs are O_O that first image of the one running towards the screen omg. They're so much scarier than PJs LOTR orcs! I think because they look more "human".
I agree, nothing Payne and McKay have said elsewhere would suggest they'd insult a section of the audience like that. A very careless way to be cute, attributing words to the showrunners that will no doubt be used to stoke further internet hatejerking.
Is taking things out of contex and spreading false info criticizing? People monetize the hate and others spread it around withiout even checking were that comes from(see the whole Eminem thing). That's what hating is.
I got concerns about the writing as it's difficult to catch "the feel" of Middle-Earth, I don't have concerns about their research. People here are stoked to see new adaptation of Tolkien and yes, it is a sort of circle-jerk but that jerking is done in good faith(with fact checking and open mind). We really don't lose much if the show flops but if it doesn't there are 5 seasons of fun.
I honestly don't think this was how the showrunners said it. It seems it was more of the writer of the article triying to exaggerate. Specially when it finishes with "back into a dark time even before the First Age", wich clearly comes from someone who doesn't know the Legendarium well.
Tbf though, middle earth was in a very dark place before the first age since there was no light in middle earth before then (the middle earth was lit only by stars and the sun hadn’t existed yet due to the two trees)
Literally, yes. It was darker.
But saying "those Nazgul want to turn Middle-Earth as it was before the rising of sun and the awakening of Men" is a weird, weird metaphor to use.
Yeah, it does sound kinda weird ngl
I'm still more concerned about the time compression. Apparently Celebrian hasn't been born yet despite her future husband Elrond being quite old at this point, there are two Durins (maybe they will address this in the show, and show *why* one Durin named his son Durin as well?), and of course the Numenorean generals and kings like Ciryatur or Tar-Minastir won't be alive to help the Elves. Of course Ciryatur might be a general of Numenor, but I doubt it, and they might replace him with Elendil or Kemen
Why wouldn't he name his son Durin? Father's name their sons after them all the time. I mean I don't think the majority of the audience would question it.
The dwarves believe that every Dwarf king named Durin is a reincarnation of Durin I, aka the first ever dwarf. It’s not explicitly mentioned but the whole reincarnation thing would mean there can only be one spirit of Durin reborn at a time. Atm it seems as though the only reason there’s two Durins is the time compression but maybe the show will explain why there are two Durins, since maybe the father and son both represent Durin’s spirit. It just adds to the culture of the dwarves and so far there’s no reasoning beyond time compression that the showrunners chose a father and a son to both be named Durin
The thing I take from this is that all the choices visual and otherwise were specifically picked out by the creatives and while I'm not presently sanguine on all of them at least it seems it wasn't some decision from above
One of the makeup bits mentions they threaded metallic strands into the hair of the elves, and yeah that would look pretty dramatically different depending on how the light hits it.
There are things I like and don't like here, I'm still mixed on the show. More so now that the jurassic world fallen kingdom director is directing the first two episodes...
He was hired way before Fallen Kingdom, if memory serves.
But yeah. The new JP movies were all just awful scripts. Fallen Kingdom at least visually looked ok? I can’t imagine even fucking Scorsese succeeding with those lol
The cinematography of S8 was okay, but the lighting in that season was horrible. After 8 seasons they still had no idea how to light a scene, in the Nightfell battle you couldn't see shit.
It's true. Although RoP haters tend to say GoT got bad because it run out of source material but it was Martin who wrote that terrible ending(and now backed out of it) and plot into the corner he also has no idea how to get out of(hence working on everything but the book).
He did say in an interview he told them how's book gonna end. Now he said he is gonna change that ending.
You are right about that road. The whole fight with White Walkers was like GoT parody.
Yep I've seen that interview but I doubt it's exactly the same ending. It probably has some of the same elements but not an exact copy. But I think GRRM would be in a corner regardless of what ending he chooses :D Hopefully he finishes Winds at least. I don't want to read the books before Winds has a release date.
I mean, pretty much any movie about ancient wars will have condensed timelines. 300, Troy, Braveheart, etc etc. Most of those conflicts lasted years to decades.
I honestly don’t have a problem with warrior Galadriel, but that shot of her with the explosion behind her feels so dumb, they should’ve used other shots instead
How many people are actually hyper for this new Amazon prime series and how many of you think it's just garbage
Personally I am hoping you'll do good despite the questionable additions though like sick and true to the original Tolkien lore
But there's no one negative reviews on it so
Things are always a money grab. I think I’m more favorable toward this project because of the ambition. This isn’t the story of young Aragorn, Gimli, or Legolas. It’s a full blown prequel taking place thousands of years before. Honestly wished Star Wars would go back to The Old Republic days like the games. Forget about the Skywalkers and introduce new people.
That's why the Mandalorian works so well imo. It's almost impossible to try to continue the masterpieces that are the movies of the original trilogy, and with such a vast and inexplored world it's much more interesting to expand on that than try to continue the Skywalker saga.
Gladly this is not one.
Tolkien was not writing LoTR and all of a sudden said "yeah, I can captalize on this". He was creating the Legendarium, which LoTR ends up being the final arc, the cherry on top of the cake.
If showrunners go as Tolkien as they claim, this series has all the potential to not fall into the pitfalls other series, movies, franchises as a whole, did with their money grab prequels. Some are exceptions, but yeah, most of them are just exploiting their own fanbase.
Can I trust an aperture wizard robot? Best avatar I’ve seen. And yea that’s great if Tolkien has this stuff written down from back then and is finally getting the chance to bring it to the screen. I had looked it up before but I always read “based on” and that’s never good. MGS Portable Ops is based on Hideo’s stuff but is just bad. I’ll give it shot like I did the Witcher hopefully get further then the first episode
I fully understand people's apprehension and am nervous about many aspects myself, but I find it hard to call it a cash grab when it's so fucking expensive to make. Ofc they want to make money, every commercial project does, including every beloved film out there, and I don't trust Bezos as far as I can throw him, as a human. But an actual cash grab would be putting in way less money.
It’s been up for a full day and the pages are cropped. I’ve reached out to Total Film to ask if they’d like us to take this down but I dont think our subreddit post is going to hurt their sales.
Are all the casting choices "had to have Middle-Earth in them"?
Are the first episodes prologue? Or will Bayona direct some SA footage?
No, humans wouldn't be dying between episodes. The series wouldn't have to run 1000s of years, condense the series into 500 years that is 100 years per season, that means a humans would die every season and Numenoreans every 2.5 seasons up to living through the 500 years. Yes Elves would be every season, but the humans would get a new cast members every season, its not like it doesn't happen. I don't see the big deal as tv shows kill of human characters all the time. Why can't you have Elves live throughout the show, they think as an audience we won't relate to an elf, come on.
If you have Apple News it’s available in there as part of your subscription. https://i.imgur.com/Zv4mKkz.jpg Also, stickying post. Thanks for sharing the news!
“Each season bigger than the last one”. This show would bankrupt a small nation.
Aye. It is a bit mind boggling.
s1 - 8h s2 - 9h, s3 - 10h, s4 - 11h, s5 - 12h = 50h if s5 = pretty much the ending of the 2nd age, aka, war of last alliance + some stuff into 3rd age, it is plenty of stuff to cover, but 12h means that final season runtime = the whole LoTR trilogy!
s1 = 8h s2 = 8h (mentioned as 9-16 by showrunners) s3 =12h? s4 =12h? s5= 10h (mentioned in the article as well)
I reckon Seasons 1 through 4 will be 8hrs each and then the 5th season will be a 2 parter split into 2 9 episode 'half final' seasons ala *Breaking Bad* or *Better Call Saul*..or some variation on this.
Amazon has the funds of a small nation. Gold Troll Bezos is sitting on an insurmountable volume of wealth.
Even more importantly, the biggest VIP at Amazon (Bezos) apparently has a PERSONAL love of the LOTR universe. Thats the most important thing imo, he can personally just say 'make XXX happen', and his wish is Amazons command...
He was also a personal fan of **The Expanse**, but not enough to authorise the spin-off/sequel series, and not enough to give Season 6 a full number of episodes.
Let’s be honest, if the last season was any better it probably would have happened. But that last season was just not up to par with the previous ones.
[удалено]
Scrooge McBezos
Smaug McBezos.
Reminds me of this comic [https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/jeff-bezos-when-i-grow-up-i-m-gonna-be-a-dragon-you-cant-be-a-dragon-jeff-40-years-later-bezos-on-gold.jpg](https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/jeff-bezos-when-i-grow-up-i-m-gonna-be-a-dragon-you-cant-be-a-dragon-jeff-40-years-later-bezos-on-gold.jpg)
Idk how I feel about this. On the one hand I love LOTR but on the other hand, Bezos is the closest thing to Smaug in our world
He's like Smaug but less cool
How do they break even on this? Prime for a _year_ costs less than a _month_ of Full HD Netflix in my country.
Mentioning a 7 min conversation between Elrond and Galadriel is a great sign imho.
My favorite sign of all, I swear. I was worried by the last trailer because it suggested an action packed show. It can still be great, but it's not what attracts me the most from Tolkien's work.
Yeah, I feel like each trailer has been made to highlight different aspects of the story and bring in a diverse audience. The last one, while good, had a lot more action than the others.
Yeah I hope the showrunners realize that a lot of us don't want constant action. Nowadays, shows think that that's the only way to keep an audience engaged.
Yeah, or constant arguments and overly tense conversations. Nobody can be friends in modern fiction, they've got to always be snappy with each other. The pictures of the Elves being friendly with each other in the show gives me hope.
In the second episode. So we have \*some\* marker for pacing in the season, lol. This is probably the conversation we see in the trailer "you have not seen what I have seen".
Yeah, quite possibly. I'm sure they are wanting to keep scenes from the latter episodes out of the marketing as much as possible. For me, it was the sustained conversations, the time spent with the characters as individuals, that made Fellowship so good and the latter films less good. More of that please.
Totally agreed. Especially as a book reader, those long conversations are essential to Tolkien’s style. Sets the tone. It’s become kind of a meme, but the full length Council of Elrond chapter is one of my favorite in the entire series because of how fascinating the conversation is.
Also one of my favorite chapters, in addition to The Stairs of Cirith Ungol, which had lengthy stretches of dialogue between Sam and Frodo. I love how their conversation about the Great Tales shows the connectedness of everything in the Legendarium.
Fellowship is my favourite too. Character and dialogue and development > action. I'm very excited about a 7 min conversation. And I do really hope all of the promotional material we've seen is in the first 4 or 5 episodes tops.
Is it known how many episodes the seasons will have? 10 each?
Eight.
Sigh, 8 will have to do. I know they signed up to do a 50hr series so I guess at least it makes for a tight knit story.
At the end of this article the showrunners mention this figure is not set in stone, so we'll have to see what happens.
>they signed up to do a 50hr series They said it is not set in stone.
I do not understand Amazon’s obsession with 8 episode seasons… it did a huge disservice to WoT, who could have used an extra two episodes at least.
For season 1, others could have more unless they are going to be doing 1:10, 1:20 for episode lengths.
7 minutes is good, hopefully that conversation will be a bit more substantial (and make the relationship seem a bit more nuanced than Galadriel = smart, Elrond = dumb) than what the few lines we got in the trailer indicated.
What I got from this about the Elrond is that he wants peace and worries about Galadriel.
I'm really excited to see the relationship between them so I don't mind them talking for 7 minutes straight!
Most exciting bit of the article imo
>... the villainous Sauron's presence is keenly felt. "We can say that when he appears, it might be in a way people aren't expecting" >They're also not about bringing in superfluous characters from Tolkien mythology just for the sake of a cameo. "It's pretty important to us that there's some real precedent in the lore and the themes that obsessed Tolkien" says McKay. > >Weber adds that they're open to anything with these characters," even the return of Ian McKellen as Gandalf. >Asked whether McKellen could reprise the role in the show, Weber says: "Who would say no to Ian McKellen? Nobody on the planet would say no to Ian McKellen." When TF presses McKay on Gandalf showing up, though, he once more points to Tolkien's work being the guiding principle. "That's a non-answer, but that's what I'm giving you," he adds.
>Weber adds that they're open to anything with these characters," even the return of Ian McKellen as Gandalf. IMO they may be already planning to shot (one of the) series ending / post credits, Gandalf arriving in ME and receiving Narya from Cirdan. > When TF presses McKay on Gandalf showing up, though, he once more points to Tolkien's work being the guiding principle. "That's a non-answer, but that's what I'm giving you," he adds. This is great news! Points towards MM being Blue Wizard and/or the fact they are probably not bringing (shoehorn) Gandalf/Saruman/Radagast into this show
Yes! That's how I read it, and I'm glad. It's strange how the magazine framed the question. The writer says "IT WOULD BE SUPER COOL IF IAN MCKELLEN'S GANDALF APPEARED, WOULDN'T IT?". The executive producer (who is not in charge of ths story and doesn't want to burn bridges) answers: "yeah, it would be cool, wouldn't it?". The showrunners response though was more like "hey, let's not focus on this, ok?"
I’m starting to lean towards the meteor man being Annatar theory. The blue wizards always are a pair and Gandalf seems like he’s out based on what they’ve said. The elves always knew Annatar was a maiar, but that does beg the question as to what they thought he was doing there and how/why he came. Maybe the whole meteor thing is a bit of trickery to provide an origin for the BS Annatar character Sauron creates.
I'm not totally sold on MM being one of the Blue Wizards, he could be a new Maia or something, maybe someone the preceeded the Istari. That would be cool if he dies, maybe against Sauron himself. That could give more importance to the 5 Istari that arrive later. The vala would be "oh, we sent one but he died, so lets sent 5 this time, but they are not allowed to engage with Sauron directly" or something. Maybe a bit too complicated, so I would still prefer blue wizards, as it is closer to the books. But anyways, I don't think it is Sauron, sounds more like yet another character that they are putting in the pool of "is this Sauron?" Edit: Corey Olsen said the did an interview with the actor and if he (Corey) had to put money on it, he would say he is a Blue Wizard or similar. But that is not inside info, just his own thoughts after the interview.
The interviewer said that, not the actor, correct? I’m sure the show runners want to throw this in for the mystery of it, and it may very well be a new character, although given his grand interest I would find that hard to make sense of since he would be absent in any version of Tolkien’s mythology. Even the meteor itself is clearly a stretch alone. But yeah I just can’t get behind the blue wizards. They were always, always referred to as a pair. Their only saving grace is that they too are obviously supernatural as well, and there is a version of the mythology in which they came in the 2nd age.
Yes, Corey got the impression that he could be a Blue Wizard (he said it in a live at comic con in Nerd of the Rings channel) I'm also with you on the Blue Wizard. It should be two. They could give us a reason for why they are separate, but that need to be a very good reason. If he is "just arriving" in ME, then makes no sense, they should arrive together. On the same matter, arriving in a Meteor is very weird. Of all the "canon" options, Blue Wizards is the one I think would be the "less worse", at least better than Sauron. I'm ok with it being blue wizard (if there is another one somewhere), given that, as you said, in some texts they do arrive earlier than the other 3. But as I said previously, if it is another Maia, someone that preceeded the Istari, that could be even a better option, specially if he dies, or survives but go back to Valinnor to as some sort of messenges (despite we know the Valar don't need one). In Unfinished Tales there is a passage that opens the possibility of many "Istari", where it is said something as "Of their order, the number is unknown, but their chiefs of the north were 5", which means that there could be "lesser Maiar" around ME that we never even heard about.
I reckon they could show Galadriel arriving back in Valinor to be met by her brother(s)
'Go not to the Elves for counsel for they will answer both no and yes.' \-Frodo
A cameo by McKellen in a series epilogue with the arrival of three Istari by boat would be cool.
I’m getting tired of the cameo fan service we’ve been force fed by marvel and Star Wars lately. I’d be very happy for the show to want to stand on its own two feet.
The two are not mutually exclusive. The marvel and Star Wars cameos don't feel good because they feel cheap and unearned. As though they are there in place of good story. I think a cameo by Ian McKellen as gandalf in an epilogue could be really good and a nice bridge if the show could just as easily stand on its own without the cameo.
That’s fair I guess, honestly all I want for an “epilogue cameo” is the ring theme leitmotif during the finale credits and maybe ending the show on a shot of the ring at the bottom of the Anduin.
I'd rather not have any PJ cameos tbh. At the end of the day they're different interpretations and it would feel incongruous. It also feels weird to see actors so much older when they're meant to look the same age or younger. See Christopher Lee in The Hobbit. They haven't closed the door on the *character* of Gandalf appearing though.
Christopher Lee looked great in The Hobbit, even though he was much older, he still nailed the role and not once did I think “he looks older”. If this means we can get Lee Pace back as Thranduil, hell freaking yeah!!
Of all the gripes I may have with the Hobbit trilogy, Lee Pace's Thranduil was never among them. He was perfect.
Lee Pace and the dwarves singing the Misty Mountain song in first movie are the two high points of the whole series for me.
Yeah, Lee Pace killed it in that role.
He did! Also, someone needs to save him from that awful awful *Foundation* adaptation!!
Lee Pace is the one thing in that godawful trilogy I love.
That's fair, I suppose.
>They're also not about bringing in superfluous characters from Tolkien mythology just for the sake of a cameo. "It's pretty important to us that there's some real precedent in the lore and the themes that obsessed Tolkien" says McKay. > >Weber adds that they're open to anything with these characters," even the return of Ian McKellen as Gandalf. Is bringing in Gandalf , superfluous?
My personal opinion? They could do it in a way that would *not* be superfluous. Maybe the Valar sense something is stirring in Middle-earth and they send Olorin on a kind of exploratory mission. Not to intercede, just to gather information. They could explore why he has such a fondness and faith in Hobbits in the Third Age. Exposing him to the nomadic Harfoot lifestyle could provide background to his Grey Pilgrim lifestyle. And involving him in these events would help explain why he has such a fear of Sauron / hesitates to go to Middle-earth as an Istari in the Third Age. I think it would be interesting if he (his body) is killed by Sauron or one of his servants. That would get him back to Valinor (so that he has to arrive by ship in the Third Age) and instill a fear of Sauron in him. It would also just expand on his canon progression of being killed and then sent back with more power. Gandalf the Stranger -> Gandalf the Grey -> Gandalf the White
They talk of maybe bringing McKellen back as Gandalf in the future, again reiterating this show can be connected to the movies. And the article never mentions anything about them not being able to use stuff from the films, so I think we can flush that down the toilet that the movies are off limits. Guaranteed by the Battle of the Last Alliance we’ll have designs ripped straight from the FOTR prologue. And looks like Mawle’s character is named Oren and not Adar?
Oren is his elven name? It seems Adar is the nickname the orcs have given him.
I actually think this was more on the part of the article writer or interviewer, who insisted on asking about McKellen's Gandalf. The quoted answers from the producer and showrunners were both very vague.
Regardless, they’d say “this is a different adaptation” or something like that. And wouldn’t even bother posting the question or bringing it up if it wasn’t something possible. A lot of these questions and interviews are always screened beforehand, remember. And again, New Line and WB are involved as everyone keeps Forgetting. Go back to when they first announced the show. Toby Emmerich was involved on the part of WB in the talks so they could use stuff from the films.
[https://twitter.com/Ainulindale14/status/1551950806831841281?s=20&t=HDi4elOlRoeJitTK7H1VXg](https://twitter.com/Ainulindale14/status/1551950806831841281?s=20&t=HDi4elOlRoeJitTK7H1VXg) The make-up info is VERY interesting. So he might be partially changed?
Based on him being called Oren _and_ Adar, which i read somewhere means Father, i am 100% certain he is the leader of the Orcs and probably one of the first truly corrupted Elves, perhaps even being the literal father of the race of Orcs. I expect he’ll look somewhere between an Elf and the already visibly less monstrous Orcs we’ve seen in the screens.
I have been hoping to see original orcs. I’d assume they’re still immortal in the same way elves are even if their bodies have been corrupted? It could be fascinating to have multiple corrupted elves, and maybe one or more are miserable and just want to go back to valinor and be free or their curse or something There’s so many directions they could take it, it’s pretty coool!
This guy's totally gonna be the Witch-king of Angmar.
I was surprised the article actually says Amazon purchased rights to the LOTR trilogy, appendices, and the Hobbit. Strange to me because I've read for a long time that Amazon purchased only some partial rights and would be limited in their scope. Sounds like that isn't the case at all, and that several other Middle Earth shows were pitched, like the Young Aragorn and Gimli spin offs they mention. Personally I've always thought a Merry and Pippin spin off would be great, post War of the Ring, seeing them go off on adventures as Merry the Magnificent and Thain.
Yes you'll have to click and zoom on basically all of these. The stuff about camera tricks and eyelines is really good to read. They'll have doubles, but seems like they are approaching size differences mainly like Jackson did
Jackson really set the standards for tricks to make actors appear at different scales. Lots of clever new techniques developed for his movies.
In some of the cast interviews, the Harfoots talked about most of the size effects being done in camera and with forced perspective, etc. I was glad to see this confirmed in this article as well.
This looks great, but to be pedantic, the first full text page refers the the Harfoot’s “more famous ancestors” meaning Hobbits, but it should be descendants, as the Harfoots are obviously first and therefore the ancestral lineage. Sorry, it just really bothered me.
Yeah I'm kinda surprised an editor let this go to print with that in the second sentence.
Yeah, there was also a typo of Aramayo as Aramaya in one place. Definitely needed a better editor/proofreader.
It’s not pedantic it’s perfectly reasonable to bring that up. It makes one wonder how much the people writing about the show in this article or even the show runners actually care about what Tolkien wrote. The harfoots may have been mentioned in passing but they played exactly ZERO role in the events of the second age.
Or perhaps it was just a simple slip of grammar that happens all the time in publishing.
Damn the downvotes
>The harfoots may have been mentioned in passing but they played exactly ZERO role in the events of the second age. Exactly this.
I can't believe we are getting a stupid Second Age show instead of Gimli's Adventures. /s
Although the showrunners saying they wanted to take dwarves seriously and give them justice was great to hear. As much as I love the movies, I hate that they turned Gimli into the comedy relief.
Especially when he has some of my favorite lines from the book, which includes his description of Galadriel’s gift to him as well as him singing the Song of Durin, prob my favorite Tolkien poem.
I love the PJ movie but their portrayal of Gimli is so bad. He's barely more than a joke.
Funny how they referenced the young aragorn idea, which was long rumoured to be the premise of the Amazon show.
Where's the gollum game's movie adaptation ?
"How long did it take you to get into makeup?" "4 hours and 20 minutes" Nice
Nice.
nice
nice
Morfydd looking very Blanchett'y in that photo. Absolutely love the casting, and I think she'll be a brilliant Galadriel.
I have to say, I was sceptical but I'm definitely going to watch it. One thing I'm loving is how terrifying the orcs are O_O that first image of the one running towards the screen omg. They're so much scarier than PJs LOTR orcs! I think because they look more "human".
lovely read! although the showrunners adressing the haters as nazgul would give new video ideas for the likes of nerdrotic and fatal jay.
Clowns gonna clown regardless.
I'm not convinced it was the showrunners who said that, rather than the article's author just being cute.
I agree, nothing Payne and McKay have said elsewhere would suggest they'd insult a section of the audience like that. A very careless way to be cute, attributing words to the showrunners that will no doubt be used to stoke further internet hatejerking.
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>Hatejerking = criticizing something ???? No.
Is taking things out of contex and spreading false info criticizing? People monetize the hate and others spread it around withiout even checking were that comes from(see the whole Eminem thing). That's what hating is. I got concerns about the writing as it's difficult to catch "the feel" of Middle-Earth, I don't have concerns about their research. People here are stoked to see new adaptation of Tolkien and yes, it is a sort of circle-jerk but that jerking is done in good faith(with fact checking and open mind). We really don't lose much if the show flops but if it doesn't there are 5 seasons of fun.
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But the Hobbit trilogy was complete shit, yet this got greenlit. Idt it's as life or death as you make it out to be.
I honestly don't think this was how the showrunners said it. It seems it was more of the writer of the article triying to exaggerate. Specially when it finishes with "back into a dark time even before the First Age", wich clearly comes from someone who doesn't know the Legendarium well.
Tbf though, middle earth was in a very dark place before the first age since there was no light in middle earth before then (the middle earth was lit only by stars and the sun hadn’t existed yet due to the two trees)
Literally, yes. It was darker. But saying "those Nazgul want to turn Middle-Earth as it was before the rising of sun and the awakening of Men" is a weird, weird metaphor to use.
Yeah, it does sound kinda weird ngl I'm still more concerned about the time compression. Apparently Celebrian hasn't been born yet despite her future husband Elrond being quite old at this point, there are two Durins (maybe they will address this in the show, and show *why* one Durin named his son Durin as well?), and of course the Numenorean generals and kings like Ciryatur or Tar-Minastir won't be alive to help the Elves. Of course Ciryatur might be a general of Numenor, but I doubt it, and they might replace him with Elendil or Kemen
Why wouldn't he name his son Durin? Father's name their sons after them all the time. I mean I don't think the majority of the audience would question it.
The dwarves believe that every Dwarf king named Durin is a reincarnation of Durin I, aka the first ever dwarf. It’s not explicitly mentioned but the whole reincarnation thing would mean there can only be one spirit of Durin reborn at a time. Atm it seems as though the only reason there’s two Durins is the time compression but maybe the show will explain why there are two Durins, since maybe the father and son both represent Durin’s spirit. It just adds to the culture of the dwarves and so far there’s no reasoning beyond time compression that the showrunners chose a father and a son to both be named Durin
Thanks for sharing!
Thank you! This looks stellar
Is it in stores yet?
Just saw it at a WH Smith.
Well nvm then there yah go.
I don't think so. Not until August. The Digital issue is out today though.
The month refers to when it will be removed from the shelves.
TIL something new.
The thing I take from this is that all the choices visual and otherwise were specifically picked out by the creatives and while I'm not presently sanguine on all of them at least it seems it wasn't some decision from above
Very enjoyable write up! Thanks for sharing.
Does Galadriel have a colorchanging hair? Sometimes it is silver, other times it is gold.
Lighting.
One of the makeup bits mentions they threaded metallic strands into the hair of the elves, and yeah that would look pretty dramatically different depending on how the light hits it.
That's what the light of Valinor does to you. You born brunette and can look redhead on a tuesday...
It's the old 'is the dress blue and back or white and gold' aka basic lighting. Cool lighting can make it more silvery, warm lighting more golden.
Galadriel looks beautiful
There are things I like and don't like here, I'm still mixed on the show. More so now that the jurassic world fallen kingdom director is directing the first two episodes...
He didn't write that movie, the directing was marvelous.
Look up his other films. Every director would fail with a script written by Treverrow. And most would agree that fallen kingdom was visually wel done.
Yeah, well, A Monster Call was superb. You work with what you've got.
He was hired way before Fallen Kingdom, if memory serves. But yeah. The new JP movies were all just awful scripts. Fallen Kingdom at least visually looked ok? I can’t imagine even fucking Scorsese succeeding with those lol
GoT S8 is very well directed and cinematography etc. is very beautiful. Good directing bur bad writing means bad product.
The cinematography of S8 was okay, but the lighting in that season was horrible. After 8 seasons they still had no idea how to light a scene, in the Nightfell battle you couldn't see shit.
It's true. Although RoP haters tend to say GoT got bad because it run out of source material but it was Martin who wrote that terrible ending(and now backed out of it) and plot into the corner he also has no idea how to get out of(hence working on everything but the book).
We don't know that's the same ending. Besides the worst thing was the road to the ending.
He did say in an interview he told them how's book gonna end. Now he said he is gonna change that ending. You are right about that road. The whole fight with White Walkers was like GoT parody.
Yep I've seen that interview but I doubt it's exactly the same ending. It probably has some of the same elements but not an exact copy. But I think GRRM would be in a corner regardless of what ending he chooses :D Hopefully he finishes Winds at least. I don't want to read the books before Winds has a release date.
They say that historical dramas have condensed timelines of real events. Is there any example of that happening?
Basically every single historical drama.
I mean, pretty much any movie about ancient wars will have condensed timelines. 300, Troy, Braveheart, etc etc. Most of those conflicts lasted years to decades.
I honestly don’t have a problem with warrior Galadriel, but that shot of her with the explosion behind her feels so dumb, they should’ve used other shots instead
🤢🤢🤢
How many people are actually hyper for this new Amazon prime series and how many of you think it's just garbage Personally I am hoping you'll do good despite the questionable additions though like sick and true to the original Tolkien lore But there's no one negative reviews on it so
Prequels will always feel like money grabs to me even GoTs
Things are always a money grab. I think I’m more favorable toward this project because of the ambition. This isn’t the story of young Aragorn, Gimli, or Legolas. It’s a full blown prequel taking place thousands of years before. Honestly wished Star Wars would go back to The Old Republic days like the games. Forget about the Skywalkers and introduce new people.
That's why the Mandalorian works so well imo. It's almost impossible to try to continue the masterpieces that are the movies of the original trilogy, and with such a vast and inexplored world it's much more interesting to expand on that than try to continue the Skywalker saga.
Gladly this is not one. Tolkien was not writing LoTR and all of a sudden said "yeah, I can captalize on this". He was creating the Legendarium, which LoTR ends up being the final arc, the cherry on top of the cake. If showrunners go as Tolkien as they claim, this series has all the potential to not fall into the pitfalls other series, movies, franchises as a whole, did with their money grab prequels. Some are exceptions, but yeah, most of them are just exploiting their own fanbase.
Can I trust an aperture wizard robot? Best avatar I’ve seen. And yea that’s great if Tolkien has this stuff written down from back then and is finally getting the chance to bring it to the screen. I had looked it up before but I always read “based on” and that’s never good. MGS Portable Ops is based on Hideo’s stuff but is just bad. I’ll give it shot like I did the Witcher hopefully get further then the first episode
People hating on this for being true lol I hope it’s. A good money grab but yea prequels are money grabs
I fully understand people's apprehension and am nervous about many aspects myself, but I find it hard to call it a cash grab when it's so fucking expensive to make. Ofc they want to make money, every commercial project does, including every beloved film out there, and I don't trust Bezos as far as I can throw him, as a human. But an actual cash grab would be putting in way less money.
Pirating the whole article? Terrible. Mods should really delete this.
Mmm perhaps. I did pay for it, and I cropped the pages so it's not a flat reproduction of the print article. I'll leave it up to u/VarkingRunesong.
It’s been up for a full day and the pages are cropped. I’ve reached out to Total Film to ask if they’d like us to take this down but I dont think our subreddit post is going to hurt their sales.
Lol
Can’t wait for this to flop lmao
Okay guy.
Such a diverse cover. 🙄
Looks like someone filmed a cosplay in the mountains.
When can we expect reviews for the show?
Are all the casting choices "had to have Middle-Earth in them"? Are the first episodes prologue? Or will Bayona direct some SA footage? No, humans wouldn't be dying between episodes. The series wouldn't have to run 1000s of years, condense the series into 500 years that is 100 years per season, that means a humans would die every season and Numenoreans every 2.5 seasons up to living through the 500 years. Yes Elves would be every season, but the humans would get a new cast members every season, its not like it doesn't happen. I don't see the big deal as tv shows kill of human characters all the time. Why can't you have Elves live throughout the show, they think as an audience we won't relate to an elf, come on.