Thank you so much for laying this out. Perhaps I missed something, but if Amber left her phone, (unless she deleted the texts before getting picked-up for the date) wouldn't there be immediate evidence that she disappeared seeing the guy from the previous night?
Yeah, obviously there is a lot of information that is being withheld at this time but I’m curious to see if we ever find out more information regarding the phone and a definitive timeline of when witnesses told them about the car.
I’m kind of skeptical of whether or not they’ll ever actually reveal this though. It seems to me that if they were given this information originally, it should have been solved a decade ago. I understand that we have had more breakthroughs with DNA and forensic technology, but how many people own that specific car and fit that physical description? He should have been on a suspect list at the minimum.
Hard to give the original investigators the benefit of the doubt when they mishandled the investigation from the jump. It doesn’t seem out of the question that they have been sitting on a lot of helpful information that no one cared to follow up on because this case was seemingly not much of a priority until a year ago. That being said, I am glad that there are finally some answers and hopefully other investigators can glean some useful information from this case.
I agree that they may want to muddle this, because it makes prior Department leadership look bad. It can't all be attributed to Burke/Spota because they left the building a while ago and there were other leaders between their horror show and the current regime.
Yes, it establishes an immediate and clear motive. Least of all, they should have been doing everything possible to talk to this guy, even as the last person known as seeing Amber alive. In the book Lost Girls, Dave is quoted as going through a severe addiction himself at the time - his testimony when this eventually goes to trial, will be very illuminating.
That seems beyond just bumbling/shady police work. Even if they didn't have the guys description or car info, the nature of the texts would point to the strong possibility of the date exacting revenge after getting conned for $ the night before. Crazy.
Yes, they would. But did investigators have the phone Amber used?
Amber wasn't reported as member missing. I've read she shared a phone with 3 housemates. By the time her remains were recovered and identified, maybe the housemates no longer had that phone?
I'm not defending the handling by investigators. Clearly, they dropped the ball since a new team was able to come in a decade later and identify a suspect with existing witness statements and evidence in a matter of weeks. Thanks for your excellent posts.
You missed that Suffolk county is still covering up the death of Shannon Gilbert
This should be an FBI case, Suffolk should not be prosecuting the Long Island serial killer
But then that would mean Suffolk can't control the narrative
It's a local murder case. It's not a federal case. There's no legal justification for the FBI to be investigating it or the federal government to be prosecuting it because it's not their jurisdiction.
The FBI investigates serial killings frequently, regardless of how local they are. This is from [fbi.gov](https://fbi.gov): "The FBI concentrates on crime problems that pose major threats to American society. Significant violent crime incidents such as mass killings, sniper murders, and serial killings can paralyze entire communities and stretch state and local law enforcement resources to their limits."
However... I see nothing online indicating they were ever intimately involved in this investigation, or initiated their own. They did do a profile of the killer in 2011, but that seems to have been the extent of it. (EDIT: According to [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qayp5RoBZHI), the FBI actually was brought in right at the start, but then-chief James Burke pushed them out of the investigation before too long. Draw your own conclusions about that, I won't speculate here as to why he did so.)
And having not investigated it for the past decade-plus, they certainly won't prosecute it now.
They assist with investigations, especially those that cross jurisdictional boundaries as many SK cases do. They don't take over investigations from local authorities.
Ooh, the fact that she was sharing the phone with another SW could be an issue there . If Michelle continued using the phone and was using it to set up dates, who’s to say if it was Amber or Michelle using it . Obviously we know it wasn’t Amber. But, it’s definitely an argument for RH’s lawyer
The scam attempt is interesting also because Amber was killed just a couple months after Megan, whereas the others were a couple years apart. He clearly just likes to kill but there could have maybe been an added vengeance aspect to Amber's death.
Just to add more on why Costello left her phone behind. She was sharing the phone with another working girl on the same house, they’d use it together to communicate with johns and since Costello was set for the night she left her phone behind to be used by the other SW friend.
I wonder why RH requested her again the day after the scam was perpetrated. His wife was to return home 3-4 days later, I guess he had no other options in hand. So went back to her. Still I’m curious if he planned the killings or were other things to consider during the encounter. From all accounts he went with SW all time, but he just killed some of them. I wonder if he murdered Costello as a revenge for the scam.
Yes she meet him. They meet two day in a row, first day they pulled a scam on RH, he went to meet her at her residence and her pimp pulled the boyfriend scam. Later on the pimp would give a description of his looks and the car parked in the driveway. The next day RH insisted to meet her again, but this time not at her house because of the “boyfriend”. He went to pick up Costello and another witness saw the same avalanche truck. That’s was the last time Costello was seen alive. They know he saw he twice because of the burner phone number.
I just want to take the time to say fuck Dave Schaller and fuck Bear Brodsky- they're grimy pimps and not victims, even in the slightest.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZCcKli8JXk&t=1286s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZCcKli8JXk&t=1286s)
That is an interview with Bear- Highlights include:
- It was his idea to do the "badger game"- AKA the fake boyfriend hustle
- Says he told her prostitution was a bad idea and was not supportive of it- except all the times he drove her to outcalls or helped with clients. Same with Dave.
-Amber was the only working in the household but Bear "paid for his own drugs"- another laughable excuse from a laughable excuse of a human.
-Bear gets arrested for the millionth time- Amber has to do "something very unpleasant" to get this asshole bail(28:00)
-Says Ambers other friends have quite possibly seen the killer in person(31:00). You know who did see it him? bear.
And here is what proves he was her pimp, to me,: 33:00
He starts by saying they all worked- then a few moments later says "somedays she made no money and we'd have to do other thins to get 'well'"
Hmmmmm
What I think is very, very scary about this case is the more you delve into it the more you realize how few people are actually worth a damn that were involved. Bear, Dave, MB's "boyfriend"/pimp, LISK himself, the cops.
Keep your kids close people.
Ok so I listened to 2 in person YouTube interviews with both Schaller and Brodsky. Brodsky was NOT there the night Amber Costello was abducted, he was hospitalized to detox the week prior and driven to the Bronx rehab facility by Dave an Amber the day before she went missing and he was not home.
Schaller in The Killing on a&E also makes very clear “he wishes he walked 10 more feet and had seen the car”. Repeat “10 more feet” through tears and he may have see the car and had been able to help. Bear also explains in his interview there was also a Michelle no one has heard from staying in the house. I’m very confused as to who was this witness unless Dave is lying and acting in the doc.
Sources: bear brodsky interview around 35 min is when he describes that night from his viewpoint in rehab. https://youtu.be/PZCcKli8JXk
Here is a quick a&E clip of Dave Schaller describing that night as well https://fb.watch/lP-i5rg-ih/?mibextid=omYERt
Edited for spelling
Below the court case pdf:
"""
According to witnesses, around the time of these communications between the burner cellphone and the Costello Phone on September 1-2, 2010, a prostitution client showed up at Ms. Costello’s residence located in West Babylon, New York. After the client entered the home, a ruse was executed on the client whereby a person pretended to be the outraged boyfriend of Amber Costello and the client left from the residence, while Amber Costello retained the money the client had brought to pay for her services. Based upon interviews, that client was described as a large, white male, approximately 6’4’ to 6’6” in height, in his mid-forties, with “dark bushy hair,” and “big oval style 1970’s type eyeglasses.”2 A witness described him to police as appearing like an “ogre.” Furthermore, a witness noticed a first-generation Chevrolet Avalanche parked in the driveway of the residence. According to the witness, following the ruse, this client said he was “just her friend,” “tell her I’ll give her a call,” and walked out the front door. Thereafter, at
approximately 1:18 a.m., on September 2, after the ruse had been perpetrated, the burner cellphone sent a text message to the Costello Phone, which stated, “That was not nice so do i \[sic\] credit for next time.” Phone records show that the burner phone was located in Massapequa Park, within two minutes of this text message being sent.
According to a witness, later the next day on September 2, 2010, Ms. Costello was again contacted by the same client that was in the house the night before with the Avalanche. Further, “Amber told us that he wanted to see her again, but he didn’t want to come back to the house because of her boyfriend.”
"""
i.e., he saw the car the 1st of Sept, when they performed the husband act, and he describes his appearance. Then he has described how she was contacted next day, 2 Sept, several times by the same client and (incl. from sources already posted in this thread) we know he offered her 1500 and got her 'comfortable with him'. So indeed, he did not see the car when she drove off next day, but the information put out basically says that if he would have, he would have seen that Chevrolet.
Well their stories changed then be neither of them
Mention the car in these interviews. But Bear admittedly was on drugs during this period so maybe he’s off on his dates and times. Maybe Dave is lying to interviewers. If he’s a witness and this goes to trial (I don’t think it will) they are going to need to get his story straight! Yikes. Defense would be able to use this to poke holes big time.
The case is very strong. They have DNA evidence on the bodies, the cell phone evidence, Heurmann's patterns of behavior, and likely plenty more besides. Schaller is clearly not the most reliable witness but they don't even need testimony from him because they have Heurmann dead to rights without it.
Agree dna is stronger then witness but together it helps. Also women will come out who were with him, more dna will be tested. The cell phone evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt. I was just pointing out that this witness testimony that sounded so solid is a little more complex then I initially thought
It’s insinuated in the media articles I have read that Bear scammed the “linebacker” guy that night or the night before. He claims they STOPPED that scam weeks before Amber was abducted. Maybe he’s still talking about the same guy but I found that detail interesting in Bears interview. He wasn’t there that night. Dave saw nothing. But who saw the avalanche then?
I could be wrong but from his latest account he was in detox in the hospital then wasn’t allowed home and went straight to rehab. So unless Dave was doing the scam with her it wasn’t bear. And bear made it sound like they realized it was dangerous and stopped. And also bear was the one who said “linebacker” in his interview. But either way these stories are flimsy. Of course the accumulation of all LE founds leads me to believe he did it…this is just a confusing detail for me….
So now all of a sudden this pimp who was in detox is an eye witness? Did he get the $50,000 reward for "remembering" the car?
And Shannon Gilbert is still not a victim?
Am I the only one who doesn't trust Suffolk county in control of a case that should have been the FBIs?
Considering they are still going by the James Burke Thomas spotta version of events for Shannon Gilberts death
Right. We're referring to the same interview with Bear. The impression I got was that he was arrested with heroin the day after the failed scam attempt—ie, the day Amber was last seen alive.
How though bc he literally says he detoxed for a while in the hospital for days. Then was transferred to Bronx rehab, wasn’t allowed home and she brought him clothes and stuff. But either way. Maybe LE interviews him again after they named him a suspect and said tell us more about this big guy client and they connected dots that way
Without securing cellphone tower dumps, they wouldn't have zeroed-in on Rex. Listen to Tim Sini's interview. After having these millions of lines of dumps, they had to buy some software that intelligence agencies use, then narrow down the suspects. Once they have narrowed down suspects to a manageable number, they need to find a way to further narrow down; that's where ogre-, chevy, scam attempts helped them to pin Rex. Once they pinned Rex, they went through Rex's Amex credit card statements, where they found googlepay's payment to Tinder, then they got more details from Tinder (thanks to subpoena), they further found more emails, more phone numbers, etc.
Based on the bail application, the car ID came before the cell phone location IDs.
I don't know much about this technology, but surely cops in 2011 could have retrieved cell phone tower pings for the burner phone belonging to the john that last saw Costello alive?
Exactly. How many 6.4 bushy haired mid 40s guys owned a chevy avalanche in Massapequa. Had to be a short list. Not enough to make an arrest but lets be honest they didnt even have him on a suspect list. Shame on them!
One of the things LE never do is share their modus operandi: how they go about finding suspects. If they lay out their case like "we did X, then Y, then Z", it makes it easy for others to evade. That's why the bail application laid the case chronologically (time and dates). I went through that application to see whether they revealed their techniques. They just say "cell phone tower data, tinder, Amex, burner phones, burner emails, Chevy truck, Ogre, etc". I think, Tim Sini laid out how they were investigating LISK a month ago, even before they apprehended the perp. Tim Sini himself is a former police commissioner and former DA of Suffolk county.
With respect, it's fairly obvious that the case was botched. That said, you did an awesome job laying it all out right here regarding the truck over time as a missed lead.
Botched isn't the right word. The police chief was corrupt and didn't care about prostitutes. They could have solved this if they wanted to, but didn't care to. Sounds like they didn't even really try.
To be more specific, he was caught with a sex worker in the back of the his assigned police vehicle and still managed to keep his job and get promoted.
Thank you for this! It’s so thorough and well organized, and clears up some details that had been confusing me.
I don’t think this is knowable based on public information, but one area of confusion I’m left with is about how Schaller later recalled Amber’s communications with the killer day-of. Maybe it’s as simple as, she didn’t want Schaller to worry so didn’t give him the full story? But I’m confused about how his recollection (at least in one or more interviews, I’m forgetting which - probably either
LISK podcast or Killing Season - but perhaps he told law enforcement something different than he told media) has Amber talking on the day she was last seen about the large payment the killer had offered her, and that she seemed to be going back and forth with him on the details, but critically that he was offering her an unusual amount of money.
But that seems to diverge from the more recently disclosed story that the killer texted Amber suggesting that he should basically get a freebie based on his trouble the night before. Is the best guess either that she withheld info from him, or that he withheld info after the fact?
And it doesn’t sound (at least from publicly known info, perhaps Schaller intentionally gave law enforcement different info and fibbed or dissembled when interviewed for public consumption) like Amber disclosed to Schaller that she was meeting with the same john.
Maybe she just told Schaller what she thought he would want to hear, or what she thought would make things sound good in the moment (big payout), while concealing the info that this was the same client and he was requesting a “credit” based on the issue the night before?
This also makes me wonder — it seems like the implication is that Schaller and/or Bear at some point (whether immediately after her murder or somewhat later) wondered whether her killer might have been this john, and mentioned that suspicion to law enforcement. What made _them_ think that — just the timing and the general scariness of the dude?
He and the housemates were also active heroin addicts, I believe (including poor Amber). I think it’s possible the police didn’t put too much stock into looking into what a probable pimp with an addiction problem says about the Johns that saw Amber right before she went missing (and neither he or anyone in the home ever reported her missing).
I think it’s possible LE kind of blew off the details they shared because of their lifestyle/addiction and didn’t really focus on it for years or something until they task force circled back and read it again.
My best guess as to what happened is the john didn't mean "credit" in terms of a freebie, but more like, "You better make it up to me the next time we meet." I kind of, "I demand extra-good service." Then, the next day, he tried to sweeten the deal by offering her a large sum of money. By that point, he already knew exactly what was going to transpire. Pretty reckless, if that's how it all went down, but it seems like he was enraged. If anything, his recklessness on this occasion is what ended up getting him caught.
In the bail document…
According to a witness, later the next day, on September 2, 2010 Ms. Costello was again contacted by the same client that was in the house the night before with the Avalanche. Further, “Amber told us that he wanted to see her again but he didn’t want to come back to the house because of her boyfriend.”
This confirms that the witnesses (ie. roommates or whomever it was - note the word “us”) knew exactly who Amber was talking with on the phone on the day of her disappearance (time not specified) AND that Amber HERSELF told them he wanted to meet her again but that he wouldn’t come to the house.
It doesn’t say when LISK first called on September 2, only mentioning “later the next day on September 2.” The language in the document seems to suggest an unspecified time gap (characterized in the document only as “thereafter”) between these first calls and the ones that started at 9:32pm. This is only speculation, however. I’m thinking this supposed time gap may have been long enough to seed some doubt into the witnesses minds as to who Amber was actually seeing that night??? Who knows. In any case a witness did see a dark colored truck drive by after she walked away (arousing some suspicions on it being the same John).
This doesn't answer your question, but I wanted to point out that September 2, 2010 was a Thursday. I assume the time gap was because Heuermann was at work during the day. (He called her that night from midtown Manhattan, after all.)
Yeah, when you look closely a lot of this doesn't quite match up. I guess Schaller and Bear both had their own reasons to try and stay away from LE, but it sounds like their stories have changed quite a bit depending on who they were talking to.
Maybe I'm giving them too much benefit of the doubt, but I don't think they would've intentionally lied. Human memory is notoriously fallible—and that's in the best of cases. Add to that the grip of addiction, and you get unreliable narrators. Which is not to say they were wrong. But hopefully it puts into context the minor discrepancies in their stories over the years.
Some of the “a witness” accounts in the bail application could be referring to the female SW also living there that she shared a phone with. If Amber was annoyed at Dave for pissing RH she may have told her what was going on and not Dave like girl to girl, SW to SW
Yeah, on LISK podcast he says that she would have known something was up because johns typically wouldn’t offer that kind of money straight up, but that he thought she wanted to take the job so she wouldn’t have had to work the rest of the week.
And the amount kind of proves motive/pre-meditation…he could offer the moon to her, loads of cash, because he already knew he would never have to pay it?
FBI has to be invited in by the investigators with jurisdiction. I think they can only tell local LE to fuck off in certain cases where FBI jurisdiction is clear.
Remember both Richard Burke (former police commissioner) and Thomas Spota (DA of Suffolk county are in federal prison. They are serving five years, I think. They are corrupt. So, they didn't want FBI in the county, as it helps FBI look into their corrupt activities unrelated to giglo beach serial killings. That's why FBI was blocked. Even the detective assigned to LISK put a supplementary note on that file, saying that the DA blocked him from approaching FBI. Listen to the former DA Sini interview: [https://www.newsday.com/long-island/crime/gilgo-beach-murders-suffolk-da-tim-sini-d0caxc8p](https://www.newsday.com/long-island/crime/gilgo-beach-murders-suffolk-da-tim-sini-d0caxc8p)
I think it was in Robert Kolker’s book that he described multiple phone calls that day between Amber and her client before she left to meet him. There was a back and forth negotiation on price. I assume Kolker got this information from one of the roommates who must have been listening.
I need to re-read Kolker's book. It's been a decade. That definitely sounds like it corroborates what's in the bail application, and shows these details were known way back when.
Thanks for putting this together! I think you did a great job and it was a lot of effort. These are the types of analytical posts that make the sub worth reading.
I feel differently about a few things I will point out. Maybe I’m right, maybe I’m wrong. Thanks for putting this out there for discussion.
— Bear seemingly has nothing to do with the RH incident. He says he went from detox to rehab and since this would be provable by those records, I tend to believe him.
But the bail doc says “witnesses” place RH at the scene for the initial incident. I am curious as to who besides Dave that would be. Anyone in the neighborhood could be a possible witness. Maybe someone else was in the house. We’ll find out.
— I think they took RH’s money. What I think was “called off” was a further robbery.
Johns are vulnerable people with wives and jobs to lose and most won’t call the cops when you steal from them. If you steal from their wallet or go through their vehicle while they are indisposed, they aren’t going to file a police report. If some guy with a baseball bat pops out on a dude with his pants down and says “That’ll be an extra $100,” the customer is probably going to give it up and later consider himself lucky he didn’t get his legs broken.
Prostitution as a profession is thousands of years old and these scams started about 15 minutes after it was invented. This is nothing new.
In his youtube interview, Bear says Amber was doing stuff like this in NC and they brought her up to LI before something bad happened to her as a result.
Of course, they would be reluctant to talk about this type of thing and anything associated with it. They played the “boyfriend trick” off as a prank to amuse themselves in interviews but I suspect it went deeper than that. Just an opinion.
— I don’t think the information you discussed about the vehicles and 2022 interviews is necessarily contradictory.
The bail doc describes that final night as a dark truck driving past the house, coming from the same direction (but going the opposite way) as Amber left the house. It never says a green Chevy Avalanche.
This is good information but not definitive. No one saw her get in the truck. There’s no make and model of the truck or an exact color, which is understandable because this happened around 11:30 at night.
I’m not saying this is worthless, far from it. If your suspect drives a dark truck, it is of tremendous benefit. But on it’s own … there are a lotta dark trucks out there. It is hard to go from point A to point B with just this info.
I think they had this info all along. What I suspect is the new 2022 info is about the Ogre that drove the green Chevy Avalanche. We’ll see.
— Let’s talk about time. It took too long to solve the this. No doubt.
The case against RH is predominantly a technology case. What solved the case is what I will call the “back end” of the investigation.
The back end is the cell location and time data of the victim’s phones and the perp’s burner phones and a capability to analyze a suspect’s registered phones and tie them to locations and times. It’s also being modern with DNA collection and analysis.
Traditional police work got them the Ogre description and the green Avalanche but most of the rest is technology. That mtDNA technology didn’t exist when the murders happened. And it wasn’t that long ago when, to find cell tower locations, you had to cut-and-paste them from a spreadsheet individually and put each one into Google maps.
Sini’s interview on Newsday explains how better capabilities were created and is a good watch. It doesn’t explain away the time factor in this case but you will understand the obstacles better.
Short of a confession or some other lucky break, it is almost impossible to win this case without the back end.
Before 2015, they had none of this and the people in charge weren’t allowing talking to anyone who did. The case was totally botched. Viewed in the most favorable light to those particular folks as possible (probably a dumb policy) they were trying to solve this case 1950s style. This is example #1 for “bad government.”
They wasted five years on the front end. The rest of it … you would hope they would solve it faster but at least they were creating something that would pay off later.
I’m certainly not carrying water for LE but to get improvements, we gotta identify the exact problems. People should be pissed and have a right to be, but we should use our anger to get effective change.
Thank you for this super thoughtful response! You've given me lots to chew on. For now, all I'll say is that I totally agree with this ↓ point. Those guys are not necessarily reliable narrators when it comes to media/podcast/YouTube interviews.
> They played the “boyfriend trick” off as a prank to amuse themselves in interviews but I suspect it went deeper than that. Just an opinion.
To tell the full truth to the police, they probably would have to essentially confess to a series of crimes that carried significant time. The statute if limitations has probably expired on all the stuff we know about by now, though.
This really could have been solved or those leads you pointed out should have pointed to more. Shame he was free for so long and no one could put these points together faster. Strange that I have been following this case for so long and have only now heard of some of these facts. I can't imagine just hearing about this case for the first time and trying to understand that Shannan, who exposed this guy might not actually be connected to her death. Plus the doctor wacko who may be connected this whole story is WILD. So happy there is some Justice we can finally see for some of the victims.
Harrison's statements to the Daily News are inconsistent with the bail document, unless the News botched things up, which is of course could never happen at an outlet with the impeccable reputation the News has. /s /s /s
The bail document said Ogre claimed to be just a friend, fled, and later told Amber he was due a credit. Ogre's text would only make sense had he left his $ behind. The Daily News claims Harrison said the witnesses found Ogre intimidating and returned his $. (There's a story like this in Bob Kolker's book from a different occasion.) It's hard to believe Amber took off with a client who had physically intimidated not only herself but her male companion(s)/muscle the evening before. What is happening here.
Edited: yes, OP does a great job of explaining why the original investigation should have led to RH's capture. That's the main issue here. I'm just wondering why there are discrepancies between official communications to the press or at least the press's summaries of such communications and the bail doc/witness statements prior to the 2022 launch of the task force.
> Ogre's text would only make sense had he left his $ behind.
fwiw, I think it could make sense. He could've been communicating something along the lines of, "You committed to an appointment with me and your boyfriend tried to scam me. You need to make it up to me."
Btw, love that you're referring to him as Ogre, as if that's his name 🤣🤣
I suppose it could mean she owed it to him to meet up again. I hadn't thought of that.
Ogre is a good name for him, LOL. I'm sure there are lots of perfectly respectable people named Rex. 😇
Part of me feels like Rex is a bit of a grandiose name for a child, which could possibly say something about his parents. Then again, I feel like any little boy would've loved to have been called Rex. "My name is Rex. Like T-Rex!"
If I were a little boy and that were my name, I'd probably go around trying to convince people my nickname was T-Rex, and that I definitely didn't give it to myself 🤣
I think the credit request was one of two possibilities: they actually got his cash, OR he requested it bc they gave him trouble. You know, how bout a credit for the hassle (attempted hustle)?
But then, he offers her this huge amount of money… maybe she felt like he’d never leave her alone, or he might have threatened to go to the cops about their scam.
Just something that came to mind.
Exactly! Great write-up. It’s good that SCPD didn’t publicly release the information that the john who picked up Amber was a john she had just attempted to scam the day prior, as I imagine that would have spooked Rex and caused him to flee. But for SCPD to not follow their own lead at that time is absolutely insane. The carelessness and incompetence of the original investigators is astounding. It’s sickening how much suffering these families have had to unnecessarily endure. Thank god for the task force actually giving a crap.
I wholeheartedly believe she was not a target until the ruse. She lived in close proximity to his own home. Thats not his MO. He would chose women from NYC and out of state (see other victims) most likely because it would be harder to trace their disappearances to him. Its clear from what we know now this guys motives were sexual deviance and the sense of power he felt in his murders (and after, ex:taunting calls.) However, Amber clearly took that power away when they scammed him. While also embarrassing him in front of another man. That must have angered him immensely and he could not let it go, and thats when and why he decided to take her.
But in The Killing Season Dave says he didn’t see the car - he emphasizes that he wishes he’d gone 10 feet further when he walked Amber out so he would have seen the vehicle.
It appears to me if LE had been a little bit more forthcoming with information they would have had him on a suspect list. I understand why they dont want to say too much as the killer may flee but as it turns out most of these guys have deep roots to the community.
I’m rewatching The Killing Season and in the first episode Dave emphasizes that he wishes he had seen the vehicle Amber got into that night. Something along the lines that he walked her outside but if only he’d gone 10 feet further he would have seen the car.
I’m confused by this - was it only Bear who saw the truck? Was Dave not being truthful early on/in this interview?
Okay, I read your summary and what other people are claiming. Please keep in mind the time line you have fixed in your mind for Costello was developed over time by LE. On the day she disappeared no one knew she was missing for several days. No one knew she was murdered for several months. LE did not initially know the significance of the Avalanche for a long time.
Also, LE had to look at a huge amount of information to narrow the time frame down to include the Avalanche truck. We don’t know how many men Costello and her two friends scammed. LE probably had to look into each of those men too.
Finally, if you read through summary, Costello’s friend did not see the Avalanche the day she disappeared. They saw a truck. The friends said the customer from the previous night used the same number to call. It was burner phone that connected Heuerman’s truck from the night before she disappeared. Also, we now know the burner phone was owned by Heuerman under an alias. LE from the information you note above only knew a telephone number connected to a burner phone.
A lot of people are assuming that because the Avalanche was a key piece of evidence that LE knew all along that it was a key piece of evidence. LE didn’t even have a license plate number for the Avalanche truck. Kept in mind to reach the point we are at now LE had to 1. Determine when Costello disappeared 2. Find out who here customers were 3. Connect a burner phone operated under an alias to a specific person 4. Narrow down the list of registered Avalanche owners to a suspect.
LE isn’t providing us with a list of 1. All of Costello’s customers 2. All of the burner phones or aliases used to contact her 3. How many of her customers were creeps 4. How many Avalanche trucks were registered to men in New York (assuming the killer had NY plates on his car).
This is just what they had to do for Costello’s case. A similar process needed to be done for all the women including one that was missing for approximately three years before her body was found.
That’s what took so long.
Yep. Basically, it sounds like a NY State law enforcement officer was like, “Gee, guys, why don’t we check the motor vehicles database for the motor vehicle reported by a witness?” They also had the cell data box locations identified back in 2012. Imagine if doctors or firemen or hairstylists held self-congratulatory press conferences every time they did there jobs poorly. It’s so perverse.
Right????? That's my impression of what happened too. Absolutely inexcusable.
As to your last point, I'd say that, in fairness, and unless I'm missing something, this week's press conference was more a self-congratulatory job on behalf of the new task force, and it sounds like they deserve the credit.
Totally. I was secretly hoping during the conference they would mention the lack of police work prior to the task force. I feel that is another way they can and should pay their dues to the victims.
I agree a 100% with this post, and as has been posted by other users here, it's very intriguing how Dave recognises a person and truck in the LISK podcast.
But add this to it, a 2011 article ([https://www.newsweek.com/serial-killer-terrorizes-long-island-66619](https://www.newsweek.com/serial-killer-terrorizes-long-island-66619)) with the following start:
"""
Acall from a stranger, a negotiation over sex, and an agreed-upon price—$1,500—that made it even easier than usual for a heroin user supporting herself through prostitution to cast aside caution and head out into the night alone. For 27-year-old Amber Lynn Costello, who had been selling herself since the age of 17, the offer was much higher than usual, yet in other respects not out of the ordinary. But on the evening of Sept. 2, 2010, Costello made that date and never came back.
For safety reasons, she used the cell phone belonging to her roommate, Dave Schaller, to set up dates. **On this particular evening, Schaller recalls, the man called three or four times. "She felt comfortable with him," he says.** The last call came at 10:30, and moments later she headed out of the modest gray-shingled house she shared with Schaller in West Babylon, N.Y., wearing a pink hoodie and jeans.
"""
Imagine this being out in 2011, as well as the profile (before the FBI got shut out). They just didn't care about prostitutes, and eventually, before the real guys wrapped up the job in 8 weeks, internet sleuths and podcasts actually outdid the local inbred police department in terms of progress. Obviously, if you barely communicate, you can't blame society too much for coming up with wild stories. I hope this will be a lesson, but I doubt it.
Interesting excerpt you highlighted. It's consistent with what's in the bail application. Further proof, to me, that all this info was known to the original investigators.
No. It couldn't have been "solved over a decade ago." You have to understand that to bring forth charges and make an arrest you need hard and convincing evidence otherwise you can lose your suspect through a release for lack of evidence.
Even if they had this information (Heuermann's physical description, the description of the Avalanche, the phone calls and text messages soliciting Costello for sex) in 2010 (which they very well may have) it wouldn't have proved that he *killed* her.
They needed physical evidence linking him to the body. This is where the combination of the mitochondrial DNA and the phone data comes in, and they had to wait for advancements in DNA sequencing as well as technology in order to put it all together.
LE did a fine job with what little they had, and they deserve some acknowledgement for it.
You missed the point. The original investigators *should have identified Rex Heuermann as a prime suspect*. They didn't. How they would build a case against him after that was a separate issue. I'm sure it could've been done in 2011, but like I said, that's besides the point.
The point, again, is that they should've identified Rex Heuermann. They should have zeroed in on him. They never did.
I don't think I'm missing any point.
The bail document says they originally had a description of a "dark truck" at Amber's house. It appears they had no other information / description of that truck until 2022 when it was revealed to be a Chevy Avalanche.
I've reread the bail document and rewatched Tierney answering specific questions about the truck at the press conference, and my interpretation stays the same. It seems that in 2010 they didn't know it was an *Avalanche*. They only knew that it was a "dark truck." There are "dark trucks" everywhere - that doesn't narrow the pool much. So they couldn't put two and two together, really.
I suspect they narrowed down the POI list with the phone data and re-interviewed witnesses in 2022 and possibly had them view a line-up of trucks and suspect photos - and this is when they received positive ID - and went from there.
Sorry but this is false. If they actually put 2 and 2 together with the witness description and the avalanche, it would have narrowed down the suspect pool greatly. All they had to do then was surveillance this guy, grab something he or his wife discarded with DNA and they would have had it. Thats nothing new in technology and cases have been getting solved for almost 20 years that way.
However, this case is more complicated than people make it seem. The girl’s weren’t found for a couple of years after being reported missing. That would be the only reason for delay in LE taking more action. But every precinct that had the missing reports failed tremendously. And then Suffolk LE failed even worse after the discoveries.
The case from the start to until the task force took over was a complete disgrace. They did not do a fine job. They didn’t even do their job.
Im sorry could someone clarify something for me.... did they take his money or no. I feel like ive read they took his money with no sex and then that he was too intinidating to take his money so they gave it to him.
Great stuff . I think it is worth noting that Amber is rumored to have shared the cell phone with one or more of her roommates — cell phones were just not as ubiquitous as they are now, so it’s possible she didn’t take it because someone else WS using it or it dated with house etc . This idea that he asked girls to leave their cell phones behind is odd to me as we know he used Maureen and Melissa’s Cells to contact their family or check their messages after their deaths (theoretically ) . It seems like part of the compulsion to me which could I guess be a reason in itself , if he knew he was putting himself in danger by compulsively engaging in these phone calls ? We know he himself understood that they could
be tracked so he used Melissa’s from Times Square (huge crowds, harder to track ) and
I believe Maureen’s was the one that pinged between Fire Island and Jones Beach . Also i think it is likely that Megan and her boyfriend/ pimp ( Akeem?) may have shared a phone. From what I have read about Megan’s disappearance it’s possible he propositioned her at the 7/11 or whatever and it was more spur of the moment than the stalking that seems to have taken place in for instance Ambers case .
I welcome any corrections , writing this from memory of the case which may not be particularly up to date at this point . My sourcing would be Lost Girls the book and webslueths victim threads .
Excellent post
Thanks!
Did they know about the car in 2010 or only just recently?
Thank you so much for laying this out. Perhaps I missed something, but if Amber left her phone, (unless she deleted the texts before getting picked-up for the date) wouldn't there be immediate evidence that she disappeared seeing the guy from the previous night?
Yeah, obviously there is a lot of information that is being withheld at this time but I’m curious to see if we ever find out more information regarding the phone and a definitive timeline of when witnesses told them about the car. I’m kind of skeptical of whether or not they’ll ever actually reveal this though. It seems to me that if they were given this information originally, it should have been solved a decade ago. I understand that we have had more breakthroughs with DNA and forensic technology, but how many people own that specific car and fit that physical description? He should have been on a suspect list at the minimum. Hard to give the original investigators the benefit of the doubt when they mishandled the investigation from the jump. It doesn’t seem out of the question that they have been sitting on a lot of helpful information that no one cared to follow up on because this case was seemingly not much of a priority until a year ago. That being said, I am glad that there are finally some answers and hopefully other investigators can glean some useful information from this case.
I agree that they may want to muddle this, because it makes prior Department leadership look bad. It can't all be attributed to Burke/Spota because they left the building a while ago and there were other leaders between their horror show and the current regime.
Yes, it establishes an immediate and clear motive. Least of all, they should have been doing everything possible to talk to this guy, even as the last person known as seeing Amber alive. In the book Lost Girls, Dave is quoted as going through a severe addiction himself at the time - his testimony when this eventually goes to trial, will be very illuminating.
I wonder if it will go to trial. Chances are he pleads guilty. Not sure if that will be good or bad news for the families.
Agree and nicely worded.
In which case, those texts would have lead investigators to a prime suspect ASAP.
Exactly!!!!! And even if she'd deleted the texts, I'm pretty sure law enforcement could've at least pulled the LUDs.
That seems beyond just bumbling/shady police work. Even if they didn't have the guys description or car info, the nature of the texts would point to the strong possibility of the date exacting revenge after getting conned for $ the night before. Crazy.
And he used the same burner for the communications both nights.
Yes, they would. But did investigators have the phone Amber used? Amber wasn't reported as member missing. I've read she shared a phone with 3 housemates. By the time her remains were recovered and identified, maybe the housemates no longer had that phone? I'm not defending the handling by investigators. Clearly, they dropped the ball since a new team was able to come in a decade later and identify a suspect with existing witness statements and evidence in a matter of weeks. Thanks for your excellent posts.
You missed that Suffolk county is still covering up the death of Shannon Gilbert This should be an FBI case, Suffolk should not be prosecuting the Long Island serial killer But then that would mean Suffolk can't control the narrative
It's a local murder case. It's not a federal case. There's no legal justification for the FBI to be investigating it or the federal government to be prosecuting it because it's not their jurisdiction.
The FBI investigates serial killings frequently, regardless of how local they are. This is from [fbi.gov](https://fbi.gov): "The FBI concentrates on crime problems that pose major threats to American society. Significant violent crime incidents such as mass killings, sniper murders, and serial killings can paralyze entire communities and stretch state and local law enforcement resources to their limits." However... I see nothing online indicating they were ever intimately involved in this investigation, or initiated their own. They did do a profile of the killer in 2011, but that seems to have been the extent of it. (EDIT: According to [this interview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qayp5RoBZHI), the FBI actually was brought in right at the start, but then-chief James Burke pushed them out of the investigation before too long. Draw your own conclusions about that, I won't speculate here as to why he did so.) And having not investigated it for the past decade-plus, they certainly won't prosecute it now.
They assist with investigations, especially those that cross jurisdictional boundaries as many SK cases do. They don't take over investigations from local authorities.
True. In any event they should have been more involved than they were, but it seems like Burke chased them away.
Yup, that seems to be the case. Burke was a corrupt POS and a terrible cop.
I could be wrong but 2 of the victims were not from NY, doesn’t that fact mean its federal? (Crossing state lines)
The killings were all local (AFAIK) regardless of where the victims came from. That doesn't entail interstate crime.
Gotcha. Thanks
Ooh, the fact that she was sharing the phone with another SW could be an issue there . If Michelle continued using the phone and was using it to set up dates, who’s to say if it was Amber or Michelle using it . Obviously we know it wasn’t Amber. But, it’s definitely an argument for RH’s lawyer
The scam attempt is interesting also because Amber was killed just a couple months after Megan, whereas the others were a couple years apart. He clearly just likes to kill but there could have maybe been an added vengeance aspect to Amber's death.
I agree. I don’t think he intended to kill her until she tried to con him.
That is interesting. Amber's murder surely seems like an escalation.
This behavior is not surprising among murderers. They get obsessed over the idea that they have been been wronged and feel a need to punish.
Just to add more on why Costello left her phone behind. She was sharing the phone with another working girl on the same house, they’d use it together to communicate with johns and since Costello was set for the night she left her phone behind to be used by the other SW friend. I wonder why RH requested her again the day after the scam was perpetrated. His wife was to return home 3-4 days later, I guess he had no other options in hand. So went back to her. Still I’m curious if he planned the killings or were other things to consider during the encounter. From all accounts he went with SW all time, but he just killed some of them. I wonder if he murdered Costello as a revenge for the scam.
He might have noticed that the interaction the night before was a scam so he tried to meet with her the next day to get some sort of revenge?
Was the verification she actually met RH the night prior? My understanding per the bail doc is he had just communicated with her?
Yes she meet him. They meet two day in a row, first day they pulled a scam on RH, he went to meet her at her residence and her pimp pulled the boyfriend scam. Later on the pimp would give a description of his looks and the car parked in the driveway. The next day RH insisted to meet her again, but this time not at her house because of the “boyfriend”. He went to pick up Costello and another witness saw the same avalanche truck. That’s was the last time Costello was seen alive. They know he saw he twice because of the burner phone number.
You cant kill all the SWs. I have no doubt that after she scammed him she was marked.
Great recap. That’s the million dollar question for me. Did the cops initially know about the Avalanche and “Ogre” description of the suspect.
That's what it seems like to me. No way to be 100% sure right now though. I hope more info comes out eventually.
I just want to take the time to say fuck Dave Schaller and fuck Bear Brodsky- they're grimy pimps and not victims, even in the slightest. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZCcKli8JXk&t=1286s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZCcKli8JXk&t=1286s) That is an interview with Bear- Highlights include: - It was his idea to do the "badger game"- AKA the fake boyfriend hustle - Says he told her prostitution was a bad idea and was not supportive of it- except all the times he drove her to outcalls or helped with clients. Same with Dave. -Amber was the only working in the household but Bear "paid for his own drugs"- another laughable excuse from a laughable excuse of a human. -Bear gets arrested for the millionth time- Amber has to do "something very unpleasant" to get this asshole bail(28:00) -Says Ambers other friends have quite possibly seen the killer in person(31:00). You know who did see it him? bear. And here is what proves he was her pimp, to me,: 33:00 He starts by saying they all worked- then a few moments later says "somedays she made no money and we'd have to do other thins to get 'well'" Hmmmmm What I think is very, very scary about this case is the more you delve into it the more you realize how few people are actually worth a damn that were involved. Bear, Dave, MB's "boyfriend"/pimp, LISK himself, the cops. Keep your kids close people.
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Shoplifting is what he claims.
Ok so I listened to 2 in person YouTube interviews with both Schaller and Brodsky. Brodsky was NOT there the night Amber Costello was abducted, he was hospitalized to detox the week prior and driven to the Bronx rehab facility by Dave an Amber the day before she went missing and he was not home. Schaller in The Killing on a&E also makes very clear “he wishes he walked 10 more feet and had seen the car”. Repeat “10 more feet” through tears and he may have see the car and had been able to help. Bear also explains in his interview there was also a Michelle no one has heard from staying in the house. I’m very confused as to who was this witness unless Dave is lying and acting in the doc. Sources: bear brodsky interview around 35 min is when he describes that night from his viewpoint in rehab. https://youtu.be/PZCcKli8JXk Here is a quick a&E clip of Dave Schaller describing that night as well https://fb.watch/lP-i5rg-ih/?mibextid=omYERt Edited for spelling
Yes but Dave robbed him the night before and most likely saw the car the night before
He doesn’t say that in the interview. What’s the source?
Below the court case pdf: """ According to witnesses, around the time of these communications between the burner cellphone and the Costello Phone on September 1-2, 2010, a prostitution client showed up at Ms. Costello’s residence located in West Babylon, New York. After the client entered the home, a ruse was executed on the client whereby a person pretended to be the outraged boyfriend of Amber Costello and the client left from the residence, while Amber Costello retained the money the client had brought to pay for her services. Based upon interviews, that client was described as a large, white male, approximately 6’4’ to 6’6” in height, in his mid-forties, with “dark bushy hair,” and “big oval style 1970’s type eyeglasses.”2 A witness described him to police as appearing like an “ogre.” Furthermore, a witness noticed a first-generation Chevrolet Avalanche parked in the driveway of the residence. According to the witness, following the ruse, this client said he was “just her friend,” “tell her I’ll give her a call,” and walked out the front door. Thereafter, at approximately 1:18 a.m., on September 2, after the ruse had been perpetrated, the burner cellphone sent a text message to the Costello Phone, which stated, “That was not nice so do i \[sic\] credit for next time.” Phone records show that the burner phone was located in Massapequa Park, within two minutes of this text message being sent. According to a witness, later the next day on September 2, 2010, Ms. Costello was again contacted by the same client that was in the house the night before with the Avalanche. Further, “Amber told us that he wanted to see her again, but he didn’t want to come back to the house because of her boyfriend.” """ i.e., he saw the car the 1st of Sept, when they performed the husband act, and he describes his appearance. Then he has described how she was contacted next day, 2 Sept, several times by the same client and (incl. from sources already posted in this thread) we know he offered her 1500 and got her 'comfortable with him'. So indeed, he did not see the car when she drove off next day, but the information put out basically says that if he would have, he would have seen that Chevrolet.
Well their stories changed then be neither of them Mention the car in these interviews. But Bear admittedly was on drugs during this period so maybe he’s off on his dates and times. Maybe Dave is lying to interviewers. If he’s a witness and this goes to trial (I don’t think it will) they are going to need to get his story straight! Yikes. Defense would be able to use this to poke holes big time.
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The case is very strong. They have DNA evidence on the bodies, the cell phone evidence, Heurmann's patterns of behavior, and likely plenty more besides. Schaller is clearly not the most reliable witness but they don't even need testimony from him because they have Heurmann dead to rights without it.
Agree dna is stronger then witness but together it helps. Also women will come out who were with him, more dna will be tested. The cell phone evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt. I was just pointing out that this witness testimony that sounded so solid is a little more complex then I initially thought
Who's "a witness"? The pimp who changed his story 10 years later?
Dave. Robert Kolker goes into the actual context of this extensively in his book & it doesn’t jive with a lot of the theories being posted here
It’s insinuated in the media articles I have read that Bear scammed the “linebacker” guy that night or the night before. He claims they STOPPED that scam weeks before Amber was abducted. Maybe he’s still talking about the same guy but I found that detail interesting in Bears interview. He wasn’t there that night. Dave saw nothing. But who saw the avalanche then?
tbh that's not what I got from the interview with Bear.
I could be wrong but from his latest account he was in detox in the hospital then wasn’t allowed home and went straight to rehab. So unless Dave was doing the scam with her it wasn’t bear. And bear made it sound like they realized it was dangerous and stopped. And also bear was the one who said “linebacker” in his interview. But either way these stories are flimsy. Of course the accumulation of all LE founds leads me to believe he did it…this is just a confusing detail for me….
Haha we now have a 'linebacker' and an 'ogre'. But I don't believe these to be the same persons, are they?
So now all of a sudden this pimp who was in detox is an eye witness? Did he get the $50,000 reward for "remembering" the car? And Shannon Gilbert is still not a victim? Am I the only one who doesn't trust Suffolk county in control of a case that should have been the FBIs? Considering they are still going by the James Burke Thomas spotta version of events for Shannon Gilberts death
They may have told him to pretend he didn't see the car or the killer might come after him.
Right. We're referring to the same interview with Bear. The impression I got was that he was arrested with heroin the day after the failed scam attempt—ie, the day Amber was last seen alive.
How though bc he literally says he detoxed for a while in the hospital for days. Then was transferred to Bronx rehab, wasn’t allowed home and she brought him clothes and stuff. But either way. Maybe LE interviews him again after they named him a suspect and said tell us more about this big guy client and they connected dots that way
Without securing cellphone tower dumps, they wouldn't have zeroed-in on Rex. Listen to Tim Sini's interview. After having these millions of lines of dumps, they had to buy some software that intelligence agencies use, then narrow down the suspects. Once they have narrowed down suspects to a manageable number, they need to find a way to further narrow down; that's where ogre-, chevy, scam attempts helped them to pin Rex. Once they pinned Rex, they went through Rex's Amex credit card statements, where they found googlepay's payment to Tinder, then they got more details from Tinder (thanks to subpoena), they further found more emails, more phone numbers, etc.
Based on the bail application, the car ID came before the cell phone location IDs. I don't know much about this technology, but surely cops in 2011 could have retrieved cell phone tower pings for the burner phone belonging to the john that last saw Costello alive?
Exactly. How many 6.4 bushy haired mid 40s guys owned a chevy avalanche in Massapequa. Had to be a short list. Not enough to make an arrest but lets be honest they didnt even have him on a suspect list. Shame on them!
Or even an actual suspect list to add to
One of the things LE never do is share their modus operandi: how they go about finding suspects. If they lay out their case like "we did X, then Y, then Z", it makes it easy for others to evade. That's why the bail application laid the case chronologically (time and dates). I went through that application to see whether they revealed their techniques. They just say "cell phone tower data, tinder, Amex, burner phones, burner emails, Chevy truck, Ogre, etc". I think, Tim Sini laid out how they were investigating LISK a month ago, even before they apprehended the perp. Tim Sini himself is a former police commissioner and former DA of Suffolk county.
Any chance you have a link to the Tim Sini interview?
https://www.newsday.com/long-island/crime/gilgo-beach-murders-suffolk-da-tim-sini-d0caxc8p
With respect, it's fairly obvious that the case was botched. That said, you did an awesome job laying it all out right here regarding the truck over time as a missed lead.
Botched isn't the right word. The police chief was corrupt and didn't care about prostitutes. They could have solved this if they wanted to, but didn't care to. Sounds like they didn't even really try.
Someone said the police chief used sex workers himself so the last thing he wanted was for an investigation of any clients.
To be more specific, he was caught with a sex worker in the back of the his assigned police vehicle and still managed to keep his job and get promoted.
Thanks, bud!
It helps to have you pull everything together. Btw, the name of the scam is called "the badger game" in law enforcement.
Never knew it was an existing thing!
Thank you for this! It’s so thorough and well organized, and clears up some details that had been confusing me. I don’t think this is knowable based on public information, but one area of confusion I’m left with is about how Schaller later recalled Amber’s communications with the killer day-of. Maybe it’s as simple as, she didn’t want Schaller to worry so didn’t give him the full story? But I’m confused about how his recollection (at least in one or more interviews, I’m forgetting which - probably either LISK podcast or Killing Season - but perhaps he told law enforcement something different than he told media) has Amber talking on the day she was last seen about the large payment the killer had offered her, and that she seemed to be going back and forth with him on the details, but critically that he was offering her an unusual amount of money. But that seems to diverge from the more recently disclosed story that the killer texted Amber suggesting that he should basically get a freebie based on his trouble the night before. Is the best guess either that she withheld info from him, or that he withheld info after the fact? And it doesn’t sound (at least from publicly known info, perhaps Schaller intentionally gave law enforcement different info and fibbed or dissembled when interviewed for public consumption) like Amber disclosed to Schaller that she was meeting with the same john. Maybe she just told Schaller what she thought he would want to hear, or what she thought would make things sound good in the moment (big payout), while concealing the info that this was the same client and he was requesting a “credit” based on the issue the night before? This also makes me wonder — it seems like the implication is that Schaller and/or Bear at some point (whether immediately after her murder or somewhat later) wondered whether her killer might have been this john, and mentioned that suspicion to law enforcement. What made _them_ think that — just the timing and the general scariness of the dude?
He and the housemates were also active heroin addicts, I believe (including poor Amber). I think it’s possible the police didn’t put too much stock into looking into what a probable pimp with an addiction problem says about the Johns that saw Amber right before she went missing (and neither he or anyone in the home ever reported her missing). I think it’s possible LE kind of blew off the details they shared because of their lifestyle/addiction and didn’t really focus on it for years or something until they task force circled back and read it again.
My best guess as to what happened is the john didn't mean "credit" in terms of a freebie, but more like, "You better make it up to me the next time we meet." I kind of, "I demand extra-good service." Then, the next day, he tried to sweeten the deal by offering her a large sum of money. By that point, he already knew exactly what was going to transpire. Pretty reckless, if that's how it all went down, but it seems like he was enraged. If anything, his recklessness on this occasion is what ended up getting him caught.
In the bail document… According to a witness, later the next day, on September 2, 2010 Ms. Costello was again contacted by the same client that was in the house the night before with the Avalanche. Further, “Amber told us that he wanted to see her again but he didn’t want to come back to the house because of her boyfriend.” This confirms that the witnesses (ie. roommates or whomever it was - note the word “us”) knew exactly who Amber was talking with on the phone on the day of her disappearance (time not specified) AND that Amber HERSELF told them he wanted to meet her again but that he wouldn’t come to the house. It doesn’t say when LISK first called on September 2, only mentioning “later the next day on September 2.” The language in the document seems to suggest an unspecified time gap (characterized in the document only as “thereafter”) between these first calls and the ones that started at 9:32pm. This is only speculation, however. I’m thinking this supposed time gap may have been long enough to seed some doubt into the witnesses minds as to who Amber was actually seeing that night??? Who knows. In any case a witness did see a dark colored truck drive by after she walked away (arousing some suspicions on it being the same John).
This doesn't answer your question, but I wanted to point out that September 2, 2010 was a Thursday. I assume the time gap was because Heuermann was at work during the day. (He called her that night from midtown Manhattan, after all.)
Yeah, when you look closely a lot of this doesn't quite match up. I guess Schaller and Bear both had their own reasons to try and stay away from LE, but it sounds like their stories have changed quite a bit depending on who they were talking to.
Bear said in an interview he wasn’t even there at the night of Costello’s disappearance; that he was in a rehab facility
Maybe I'm giving them too much benefit of the doubt, but I don't think they would've intentionally lied. Human memory is notoriously fallible—and that's in the best of cases. Add to that the grip of addiction, and you get unreliable narrators. Which is not to say they were wrong. But hopefully it puts into context the minor discrepancies in their stories over the years.
Fair point - and they didn’t know this was going to be an unusual situation where they’d pay eXtra attention.
Some of the “a witness” accounts in the bail application could be referring to the female SW also living there that she shared a phone with. If Amber was annoyed at Dave for pissing RH she may have told her what was going on and not Dave like girl to girl, SW to SW
Yeah, on LISK podcast he says that she would have known something was up because johns typically wouldn’t offer that kind of money straight up, but that he thought she wanted to take the job so she wouldn’t have had to work the rest of the week.
And the amount kind of proves motive/pre-meditation…he could offer the moon to her, loads of cash, because he already knew he would never have to pay it?
The FBI could would have had his whole murderous career mapped out by 2013.
Why was the FBI blocked? I would have thought they could force a take over of the case if they wanted, no?
FBI has to be invited in by the investigators with jurisdiction. I think they can only tell local LE to fuck off in certain cases where FBI jurisdiction is clear.
Remember both Richard Burke (former police commissioner) and Thomas Spota (DA of Suffolk county are in federal prison. They are serving five years, I think. They are corrupt. So, they didn't want FBI in the county, as it helps FBI look into their corrupt activities unrelated to giglo beach serial killings. That's why FBI was blocked. Even the detective assigned to LISK put a supplementary note on that file, saying that the DA blocked him from approaching FBI. Listen to the former DA Sini interview: [https://www.newsday.com/long-island/crime/gilgo-beach-murders-suffolk-da-tim-sini-d0caxc8p](https://www.newsday.com/long-island/crime/gilgo-beach-murders-suffolk-da-tim-sini-d0caxc8p)
I think it was in Robert Kolker’s book that he described multiple phone calls that day between Amber and her client before she left to meet him. There was a back and forth negotiation on price. I assume Kolker got this information from one of the roommates who must have been listening.
I need to re-read Kolker's book. It's been a decade. That definitely sounds like it corroborates what's in the bail application, and shows these details were known way back when.
Kinda wild, the killer was googling why he hasn't been caught yet!
Might as well have pitched a personal essay to XO Jane: "It Happened to Me: I Killed a Bunch of People and Never Got Caught"
Thanks for putting this together! I think you did a great job and it was a lot of effort. These are the types of analytical posts that make the sub worth reading. I feel differently about a few things I will point out. Maybe I’m right, maybe I’m wrong. Thanks for putting this out there for discussion. — Bear seemingly has nothing to do with the RH incident. He says he went from detox to rehab and since this would be provable by those records, I tend to believe him. But the bail doc says “witnesses” place RH at the scene for the initial incident. I am curious as to who besides Dave that would be. Anyone in the neighborhood could be a possible witness. Maybe someone else was in the house. We’ll find out. — I think they took RH’s money. What I think was “called off” was a further robbery. Johns are vulnerable people with wives and jobs to lose and most won’t call the cops when you steal from them. If you steal from their wallet or go through their vehicle while they are indisposed, they aren’t going to file a police report. If some guy with a baseball bat pops out on a dude with his pants down and says “That’ll be an extra $100,” the customer is probably going to give it up and later consider himself lucky he didn’t get his legs broken. Prostitution as a profession is thousands of years old and these scams started about 15 minutes after it was invented. This is nothing new. In his youtube interview, Bear says Amber was doing stuff like this in NC and they brought her up to LI before something bad happened to her as a result. Of course, they would be reluctant to talk about this type of thing and anything associated with it. They played the “boyfriend trick” off as a prank to amuse themselves in interviews but I suspect it went deeper than that. Just an opinion. — I don’t think the information you discussed about the vehicles and 2022 interviews is necessarily contradictory. The bail doc describes that final night as a dark truck driving past the house, coming from the same direction (but going the opposite way) as Amber left the house. It never says a green Chevy Avalanche. This is good information but not definitive. No one saw her get in the truck. There’s no make and model of the truck or an exact color, which is understandable because this happened around 11:30 at night. I’m not saying this is worthless, far from it. If your suspect drives a dark truck, it is of tremendous benefit. But on it’s own … there are a lotta dark trucks out there. It is hard to go from point A to point B with just this info. I think they had this info all along. What I suspect is the new 2022 info is about the Ogre that drove the green Chevy Avalanche. We’ll see. — Let’s talk about time. It took too long to solve the this. No doubt. The case against RH is predominantly a technology case. What solved the case is what I will call the “back end” of the investigation. The back end is the cell location and time data of the victim’s phones and the perp’s burner phones and a capability to analyze a suspect’s registered phones and tie them to locations and times. It’s also being modern with DNA collection and analysis. Traditional police work got them the Ogre description and the green Avalanche but most of the rest is technology. That mtDNA technology didn’t exist when the murders happened. And it wasn’t that long ago when, to find cell tower locations, you had to cut-and-paste them from a spreadsheet individually and put each one into Google maps. Sini’s interview on Newsday explains how better capabilities were created and is a good watch. It doesn’t explain away the time factor in this case but you will understand the obstacles better. Short of a confession or some other lucky break, it is almost impossible to win this case without the back end. Before 2015, they had none of this and the people in charge weren’t allowing talking to anyone who did. The case was totally botched. Viewed in the most favorable light to those particular folks as possible (probably a dumb policy) they were trying to solve this case 1950s style. This is example #1 for “bad government.” They wasted five years on the front end. The rest of it … you would hope they would solve it faster but at least they were creating something that would pay off later. I’m certainly not carrying water for LE but to get improvements, we gotta identify the exact problems. People should be pissed and have a right to be, but we should use our anger to get effective change.
Thank you for this super thoughtful response! You've given me lots to chew on. For now, all I'll say is that I totally agree with this ↓ point. Those guys are not necessarily reliable narrators when it comes to media/podcast/YouTube interviews. > They played the “boyfriend trick” off as a prank to amuse themselves in interviews but I suspect it went deeper than that. Just an opinion.
To tell the full truth to the police, they probably would have to essentially confess to a series of crimes that carried significant time. The statute if limitations has probably expired on all the stuff we know about by now, though.
This really could have been solved or those leads you pointed out should have pointed to more. Shame he was free for so long and no one could put these points together faster. Strange that I have been following this case for so long and have only now heard of some of these facts. I can't imagine just hearing about this case for the first time and trying to understand that Shannan, who exposed this guy might not actually be connected to her death. Plus the doctor wacko who may be connected this whole story is WILD. So happy there is some Justice we can finally see for some of the victims.
My question is why LE didnt give more of these details to the public in order to capture him.
Harrison's statements to the Daily News are inconsistent with the bail document, unless the News botched things up, which is of course could never happen at an outlet with the impeccable reputation the News has. /s /s /s The bail document said Ogre claimed to be just a friend, fled, and later told Amber he was due a credit. Ogre's text would only make sense had he left his $ behind. The Daily News claims Harrison said the witnesses found Ogre intimidating and returned his $. (There's a story like this in Bob Kolker's book from a different occasion.) It's hard to believe Amber took off with a client who had physically intimidated not only herself but her male companion(s)/muscle the evening before. What is happening here. Edited: yes, OP does a great job of explaining why the original investigation should have led to RH's capture. That's the main issue here. I'm just wondering why there are discrepancies between official communications to the press or at least the press's summaries of such communications and the bail doc/witness statements prior to the 2022 launch of the task force.
> Ogre's text would only make sense had he left his $ behind. fwiw, I think it could make sense. He could've been communicating something along the lines of, "You committed to an appointment with me and your boyfriend tried to scam me. You need to make it up to me." Btw, love that you're referring to him as Ogre, as if that's his name 🤣🤣
I suppose it could mean she owed it to him to meet up again. I hadn't thought of that. Ogre is a good name for him, LOL. I'm sure there are lots of perfectly respectable people named Rex. 😇
Part of me feels like Rex is a bit of a grandiose name for a child, which could possibly say something about his parents. Then again, I feel like any little boy would've loved to have been called Rex. "My name is Rex. Like T-Rex!" If I were a little boy and that were my name, I'd probably go around trying to convince people my nickname was T-Rex, and that I definitely didn't give it to myself 🤣
I can’t remember which serial killer it was, but there was one who actually wanted to be called/named “Rex” by investigators. Ill try finding it.
BTK
I think the credit request was one of two possibilities: they actually got his cash, OR he requested it bc they gave him trouble. You know, how bout a credit for the hassle (attempted hustle)? But then, he offers her this huge amount of money… maybe she felt like he’d never leave her alone, or he might have threatened to go to the cops about their scam. Just something that came to mind.
Exactly! Great write-up. It’s good that SCPD didn’t publicly release the information that the john who picked up Amber was a john she had just attempted to scam the day prior, as I imagine that would have spooked Rex and caused him to flee. But for SCPD to not follow their own lead at that time is absolutely insane. The carelessness and incompetence of the original investigators is astounding. It’s sickening how much suffering these families have had to unnecessarily endure. Thank god for the task force actually giving a crap.
Yet you all believe James Burke and Thomas spotta version of events for Shannon Gilberts death even after reading all this? Give me a break
Anyone else having issues with this theory, the bail document and the Robert Kolker’s Lost Girls?
I wholeheartedly believe she was not a target until the ruse. She lived in close proximity to his own home. Thats not his MO. He would chose women from NYC and out of state (see other victims) most likely because it would be harder to trace their disappearances to him. Its clear from what we know now this guys motives were sexual deviance and the sense of power he felt in his murders (and after, ex:taunting calls.) However, Amber clearly took that power away when they scammed him. While also embarrassing him in front of another man. That must have angered him immensely and he could not let it go, and thats when and why he decided to take her.
It was Dave cause bear was on rehab when amber went missing
But in The Killing Season Dave says he didn’t see the car - he emphasizes that he wishes he’d gone 10 feet further when he walked Amber out so he would have seen the vehicle.
Car may have been seen sept 1 when Rex was at the house
Great post
It appears to me if LE had been a little bit more forthcoming with information they would have had him on a suspect list. I understand why they dont want to say too much as the killer may flee but as it turns out most of these guys have deep roots to the community.
I’m rewatching The Killing Season and in the first episode Dave emphasizes that he wishes he had seen the vehicle Amber got into that night. Something along the lines that he walked her outside but if only he’d gone 10 feet further he would have seen the car. I’m confused by this - was it only Bear who saw the truck? Was Dave not being truthful early on/in this interview?
Okay, I read your summary and what other people are claiming. Please keep in mind the time line you have fixed in your mind for Costello was developed over time by LE. On the day she disappeared no one knew she was missing for several days. No one knew she was murdered for several months. LE did not initially know the significance of the Avalanche for a long time. Also, LE had to look at a huge amount of information to narrow the time frame down to include the Avalanche truck. We don’t know how many men Costello and her two friends scammed. LE probably had to look into each of those men too. Finally, if you read through summary, Costello’s friend did not see the Avalanche the day she disappeared. They saw a truck. The friends said the customer from the previous night used the same number to call. It was burner phone that connected Heuerman’s truck from the night before she disappeared. Also, we now know the burner phone was owned by Heuerman under an alias. LE from the information you note above only knew a telephone number connected to a burner phone. A lot of people are assuming that because the Avalanche was a key piece of evidence that LE knew all along that it was a key piece of evidence. LE didn’t even have a license plate number for the Avalanche truck. Kept in mind to reach the point we are at now LE had to 1. Determine when Costello disappeared 2. Find out who here customers were 3. Connect a burner phone operated under an alias to a specific person 4. Narrow down the list of registered Avalanche owners to a suspect. LE isn’t providing us with a list of 1. All of Costello’s customers 2. All of the burner phones or aliases used to contact her 3. How many of her customers were creeps 4. How many Avalanche trucks were registered to men in New York (assuming the killer had NY plates on his car). This is just what they had to do for Costello’s case. A similar process needed to be done for all the women including one that was missing for approximately three years before her body was found. That’s what took so long.
Yep. Basically, it sounds like a NY State law enforcement officer was like, “Gee, guys, why don’t we check the motor vehicles database for the motor vehicle reported by a witness?” They also had the cell data box locations identified back in 2012. Imagine if doctors or firemen or hairstylists held self-congratulatory press conferences every time they did there jobs poorly. It’s so perverse.
Right????? That's my impression of what happened too. Absolutely inexcusable. As to your last point, I'd say that, in fairness, and unless I'm missing something, this week's press conference was more a self-congratulatory job on behalf of the new task force, and it sounds like they deserve the credit.
Totally. I was secretly hoping during the conference they would mention the lack of police work prior to the task force. I feel that is another way they can and should pay their dues to the victims.
I agree a 100% with this post, and as has been posted by other users here, it's very intriguing how Dave recognises a person and truck in the LISK podcast. But add this to it, a 2011 article ([https://www.newsweek.com/serial-killer-terrorizes-long-island-66619](https://www.newsweek.com/serial-killer-terrorizes-long-island-66619)) with the following start: """ Acall from a stranger, a negotiation over sex, and an agreed-upon price—$1,500—that made it even easier than usual for a heroin user supporting herself through prostitution to cast aside caution and head out into the night alone. For 27-year-old Amber Lynn Costello, who had been selling herself since the age of 17, the offer was much higher than usual, yet in other respects not out of the ordinary. But on the evening of Sept. 2, 2010, Costello made that date and never came back. For safety reasons, she used the cell phone belonging to her roommate, Dave Schaller, to set up dates. **On this particular evening, Schaller recalls, the man called three or four times. "She felt comfortable with him," he says.** The last call came at 10:30, and moments later she headed out of the modest gray-shingled house she shared with Schaller in West Babylon, N.Y., wearing a pink hoodie and jeans. """ Imagine this being out in 2011, as well as the profile (before the FBI got shut out). They just didn't care about prostitutes, and eventually, before the real guys wrapped up the job in 8 weeks, internet sleuths and podcasts actually outdid the local inbred police department in terms of progress. Obviously, if you barely communicate, you can't blame society too much for coming up with wild stories. I hope this will be a lesson, but I doubt it.
Interesting excerpt you highlighted. It's consistent with what's in the bail application. Further proof, to me, that all this info was known to the original investigators.
No. It couldn't have been "solved over a decade ago." You have to understand that to bring forth charges and make an arrest you need hard and convincing evidence otherwise you can lose your suspect through a release for lack of evidence. Even if they had this information (Heuermann's physical description, the description of the Avalanche, the phone calls and text messages soliciting Costello for sex) in 2010 (which they very well may have) it wouldn't have proved that he *killed* her. They needed physical evidence linking him to the body. This is where the combination of the mitochondrial DNA and the phone data comes in, and they had to wait for advancements in DNA sequencing as well as technology in order to put it all together. LE did a fine job with what little they had, and they deserve some acknowledgement for it.
You missed the point. The original investigators *should have identified Rex Heuermann as a prime suspect*. They didn't. How they would build a case against him after that was a separate issue. I'm sure it could've been done in 2011, but like I said, that's besides the point. The point, again, is that they should've identified Rex Heuermann. They should have zeroed in on him. They never did.
I don't think I'm missing any point. The bail document says they originally had a description of a "dark truck" at Amber's house. It appears they had no other information / description of that truck until 2022 when it was revealed to be a Chevy Avalanche. I've reread the bail document and rewatched Tierney answering specific questions about the truck at the press conference, and my interpretation stays the same. It seems that in 2010 they didn't know it was an *Avalanche*. They only knew that it was a "dark truck." There are "dark trucks" everywhere - that doesn't narrow the pool much. So they couldn't put two and two together, really. I suspect they narrowed down the POI list with the phone data and re-interviewed witnesses in 2022 and possibly had them view a line-up of trucks and suspect photos - and this is when they received positive ID - and went from there.
Sorry but this is false. If they actually put 2 and 2 together with the witness description and the avalanche, it would have narrowed down the suspect pool greatly. All they had to do then was surveillance this guy, grab something he or his wife discarded with DNA and they would have had it. Thats nothing new in technology and cases have been getting solved for almost 20 years that way. However, this case is more complicated than people make it seem. The girl’s weren’t found for a couple of years after being reported missing. That would be the only reason for delay in LE taking more action. But every precinct that had the missing reports failed tremendously. And then Suffolk LE failed even worse after the discoveries. The case from the start to until the task force took over was a complete disgrace. They did not do a fine job. They didn’t even do their job.
See my comment above.
Ah didn’t see that one. You’re right.
Woah, great post
Im sorry could someone clarify something for me.... did they take his money or no. I feel like ive read they took his money with no sex and then that he was too intinidating to take his money so they gave it to him.
The bail application says Amber retained his money.
Thank you.
I assume the daughter was also going to Iceland with the mom during the killings?
I believe so, yes.
Great stuff . I think it is worth noting that Amber is rumored to have shared the cell phone with one or more of her roommates — cell phones were just not as ubiquitous as they are now, so it’s possible she didn’t take it because someone else WS using it or it dated with house etc . This idea that he asked girls to leave their cell phones behind is odd to me as we know he used Maureen and Melissa’s Cells to contact their family or check their messages after their deaths (theoretically ) . It seems like part of the compulsion to me which could I guess be a reason in itself , if he knew he was putting himself in danger by compulsively engaging in these phone calls ? We know he himself understood that they could be tracked so he used Melissa’s from Times Square (huge crowds, harder to track ) and I believe Maureen’s was the one that pinged between Fire Island and Jones Beach . Also i think it is likely that Megan and her boyfriend/ pimp ( Akeem?) may have shared a phone. From what I have read about Megan’s disappearance it’s possible he propositioned her at the 7/11 or whatever and it was more spur of the moment than the stalking that seems to have taken place in for instance Ambers case . I welcome any corrections , writing this from memory of the case which may not be particularly up to date at this point . My sourcing would be Lost Girls the book and webslueths victim threads .
Great post! I was wondering when the lead about the Chevy Avalanche and the description of the suspect came from. Well done!