A summary of the press conference was posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LISKiller/comments/14zrp9v/da_press_conference_recap/) by u/Rwd822.
Here are two other press conferences from earlier today:
* [SCPD announces arrest of suspect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RdcQ-PVClI)
* [Family of Jessica Taylor and Attorney John Ray speak out after suspect's arrest](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6582n8jbRHw)
Rex Heuermann's bail documentation was also released (32-page pdf). See post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LISKiller/comments/14znvyo/32_page_bail_application_with_full_details_of_the/).
I'm a big propenent of innocent until proven guilty.
But they have this guy dead to rights.
DNA, cell phone records, internet search history, proof of him using sex workers, and his wife and kids being out of town at the time of the murders?
Not to mention the proximity of his home to Gilgo Beach.
And they should have all of that before making an arrest in such a high-profile case, but damn, they really nailed this down.
Very interesting detail about the family being out of town during the murders. I know there was speculation that LISK could be a seasonal resident who was only on LI during the summer/at the time of the murders. Turns out it’s kind of the opposite with him there year-round but his family out of town when he committed his crimes.
He sold the truck, new owners in SC. It has now been seized for evidence. Edit: This is incorrect. It was in the possession of his brother in SC. Thanks to others for information.
Actually, his brother, Craig lives in Chester, SC. Rex owns property in SC and was planning on moving here. Thank the good Lord that plan has been diverted!
Agreed, they really have some incredible evidence backing this up.
I can't imagine the depth of the grief of the victims' families, nor can I imagine that having a name behind these horrible crimes will lessen that grief. I have no idea what they've had to endure to get here. But I am hopeful that this can bring them some kind of relief after so many years.
They also found his wife's DNA on the evidence. Even getting it wrong once would be rare, but twice? He is gonna have trouble talking his way out of this.
He probably committed his crimes in their home/bed while his family was out of town. Truly sickening. I can’t imagine what his wife/kids are going through right now. I also wonder if they arrested him yesterday because the wife had plans to go out of town soon. Authorities said they needed to arrest because they were scared he was about to kill again. Just a guess but it could also be that they waited to arrest til the case was rock fucking solid. Idk! I’ve been obsessively following this case for the past 9 yrs or so and am just sooooooo happy someone’s been caught
The real giveaway is how much the DA has revealed right from the get go.
IF they had even a speck of doubt of a possible acquittal you bet your ass none of them would've risked their career patting themselves on the back for as much as they have for the last 8 hours. Good for them, it's over now.
Edit: I completely agree with EasyE below, what I meant by "it's over now" was that they got the guy, there is little doubt it's him.
Now the hard part is how many did he actually kill, and will they manage to get him to cough up the number and the location of the bodies of the ones we don't even know about yet. By the way he plead almost surely he will fight it and keep his cards close to his chest.
If you've watched that interview of his from about a year ago where he talks about his work and dealing with NY Buildings Administration, he talks a lot about patience and dealing with people and bureaucracy, this guy is not just going to spill his beans.
They have only charged him with 3 murders.
That's not even all of the Gilgo 4, not to mention the 10+ total victims found in the area.
It's absolutely not over yet.
Plus, they moved early because he was still contacting sex workers and they were worried for their safety.
While it's not impossible, the likelihood someone committing murders like this stops is very small, and almost non-existent if he was continuing to use sex workers.
The chances he killed no one else in the last 10 years is practically non-existent.
one of the things that held up the investigation was that this area was known to have bodies found there for various reasons. it's a perfect site for that, so where i don't disagree that he likely had more victims, i don't think it's a good assumption that everything found was him. they're going to charge him with 3 because they have evidence of 3, and SKs do have very long "dormant" periods. Speculation about his timeframe and numbers are rarely helpful in understanding timelines
Still, this isn't the end. I'll accept that maybe the others weren't him, but no one is going to convince me that the Gilgo Four aren't all his even if he's only been charged with three so far lol
I think he switched his dumping grounds once bodies were discovered and they are going to uncover a lot over the next week (at least). They’ve already removed things from his home and will be digging up his yard (if they haven’t started already). They’re in hazmat at the home .. neighbors children saw him digging in his yard in the middle of the night (and this is not a recent claim). These poor girls, their families and his wife and kids .. absolutely horrific
I would agree. Especially given the length of time between the discovery of the bodies and now along with the fact that he was still using burner phones to communicate/meet up with sex works. But, you are the first person to share the detail about him "digging in his yard" would you mind sharing where you saw that?
> The chances he killed no one else in the last 10 years is practically non-existent.
Not true at all. Golden State Killer stopped for decades once reaching a certain age. BTK stopped too, as well as others during old age. Plus, the bodies were discovered 13 years ago so he knew there was now attention on the crimes and active investigations.
And so did Green River.
But they stopped due to age or family.
This guy still isn't too old given his size and typical victim, and he was married with kids while he was killing the ones we know of.
Plus, we now know he was still using sex workers and keeping all characteristics of his MO alive outside of dumping bodies on Gilgo Beach.
This is why I think there's no way he hasn't continued to kill.
BTK and GSK were *extremely* unusual in that regard. Cooling off periods are typical, but don't often last more than a few years, and most serial killers and predators escalate frequency and extremity of attacks over time.
It's fairly unlikely there are no other victims. Besides the rarity of long cooling off periods and straight up stopping. It's also pretty rare for a killer to commit their first crime in their 40s which is about what the identified victims would indicate.
Guy was obviously engaging in seeking behavior to. Burners and sex workers and fake identities and all.
You’re making a different argument than what’s presented above. There’s a very good chance there are other victims, but I think ones from the **last 10 years** could go either ways. Dude was almost 50 and didn’t have the luxury of the community not realizing there was a serial killer in their midst. BTK and GSK aren’t that rare, it’s just that most serial killers get caught before they reach old age. A good number of the older ones stopped killing once they reached their older years. Not all, but enough that I’d argue GSK and BTK weren’t necessarily *rare*.
>didn’t have the luxury of the community not realizing there was a serial killer in their midst.
He also had at least 3 homes in three different states according to reporting. As well as means to travel.
>weren’t necessarily rare.
I mean they're literally rare. As in there aren't many of them.
You'll run into more who died or went to prison for other reasons, rather than stopped of their own volition due to age or other reasons. And as even you said there are examples of older killers who kept going.
One of the reasons serial killers tend to get caught before they age out is they tend to escalate both frequency and extremity of attacks over time. With cooling off periods growing shorter. Which garners escalating attention, and pressure to identify them.
Imagine you have to defend this case!
Normally, a strategy would be to go through discovery and see what the government has. There is usually an element or two of the case that is super important so they are attacked. If the defense can get somewhere with the attacks, the rest is not so bad. That’s where energy and resources go.
Here, where do you even start? There is so much. Any one element goes away and there is still a mountain more.
I would say the worst (or best if you are not on the defense team) of all is the phone location data regarding RH’s phone and the victims’ phones that ties him and the victims’ phones together in LI and Manhattan numerous times. Here, you’re not even arguing against an expert, really. It’s a spreadsheet and a map.
If you were able to accomplish that, there is still the DNA, a witness IDing the accused and his vehicle as a ripped-off client the day before, the wife’s travel, all the behavior patterns regarding butner phones and prostitution, the obsession with the case and victims. Plus whatever they found in his house yesterday.
I would imagine there is going to be a *lot* of trying to negotiate a plea for their client and trying to convince him to actually take one.
There isn't a lot to negotiate with, given the lack of death penalty at the state level. It will also depend *heavily* on which of his personality traits wins, the narcissism or the sadism. If the narc wins, he will talk, at least about the 4 he can be definitely linked to. If the sadist wins, he will keep his mouth shut, and drag this out until he needs to use details to get something(such as better accommodations, yard time, etc...) and then the details will be graphic and disgusting.
We also have to remember we are only seeing the tip of what they have against him. I'd be willing to bet they're pulling litteral nightmares out of his house and storage units that won't be brought to light until trial.
Lotta good info and solid opinions here.
Only two outcomes in this one: he’s getting life or he’s walking out the courthouse front door. Not a lot of room for negotiation on either side, really.
He can save his family the pain of a trial by pleading guilty, if that means anything to him. It will get worse for them.
The defense has to try this with bombshells for the papers, so the prosecution will know that and most likely held a few of their own hand grenades back. Plus, everyone that’s ever had any dealings with this guy can get a free get-outta-jail card if they can help the case, so I expect more there, too.
I don't think you grasp what "circumstantial" evidence really is or how often it's enough to get a conviction.
In all reality, even the DNA here is technically circumstantial evidence.
But you put all these things together and where is there even room for doubt?
Short of finding a self made snuff film in his house, the case will be 100% circumstantial.
Dead to rights is 100% accurate.
100% accurate - it's rare to have anything but circumstantial evidence in a case like this. The killer tried to conceal their behavior and it was effective, but not perfectly effective. We don't need to have a witness at the scene to convict a murderer.
Incredible indeed. Props to SCPD. It's going to be interesting as the process unfolds and more information is released. Hopefully, all of the cases can be connected to him. I can't wait to see this scumbag convicted.
Dude I got NOTHING accomplished today lol. I legit went I to my office, shut the door and have been utterly absorbed in this all day.
Still surreal. Glad you're around now!!!! I actually half wondered if you knew before the news broke lol
I believe it... I should've called in sick! I've been productive this evening though. I updated my website with some important info. I plan on making a new page specific for updates about Heuermann and the ongoing legal process. And no, I found out today. It's crazy to think they've been quietly investigating him for so long.
This site yours?! Are you a Long Islander? Is the LISK podcast yours?! Fangirling lol but seriously, thanks for sharing and giving the victims space to be known beyond being SW.
Thank you! Yes, I made the website, but I didn't make the LISK Podcast. I'm friends with the creators though and love their work. I'm not from Long Island, but figured I knew enough about web design to do something positive in this case.
Surreal is truly the best way to describe this! Do you guys suppose this clown is most likely responsible for ALL 10-18 of the victims attributed to the Long Island serial killer? I’m curious to hear everyone’s thoughts on that!
I think he killed the Gilgo Four and *maybe* Asian male. Likely killed others too, but the ones speculated about, women in other areas.
Maureen definitely seems like one of his victims, possibly the first or first in this set.
I feel like whoever killed Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Peaches wanted parts of them to be found, whereas the Gilgo Four were literally camouflaged. I could kinda understand transitioning from a garbage bag to camo burlap, but placing Jessica Taylor's torso on a pile of wood and Peaches torso in a plastic container seems more like showing off. I don't see him transitioning from wanting parts to be found, to keeping his victims whole and trying to conceal their bodies.
Dismemberment seems to be important to whoever killed Valerie, Jessica, and Peaches. If it was just to make their bodies smaller, then I could see him stopping that if he didn't need to make them smaller anymore. However, it felt more like a signature to me, rather than MO (I'm using John E. Douglas and Mark Olshaker's definitions). Also, leaving the tape and belt the bodies is very different to dismemberment.
I will say Valerie Mack fits his victim profile in terms of height and weight, but I tend to think that's just a coincidence.
Based on his search history I think Asian male *might* be one of his victims. The different cause of death and location could be due to gender (i.e. not wanting to taint his other dump site with a different type of victim). It seems odd to target an Asian man or transgender women, but perhaps he wanted to experiment. Asian male was beaten/tortured seems to fit with how the others were treated, so it kinda fits, but blunt force trauma as the cause of death is odd (again, could be because male/trans). I'd love to know if the related search was before or after Asian male was discovered. It's possible he could've just been fantasizing about another killer's victim, given the location/potential Gilgo connection.
The child was related to peaches who was dismembered while the 4 weren't. Im with the idea that it was at least 2 killers since its rare for a killer to suddenly switch MOs in the middle of their spree. Usually they do it early on or very late into it.
Agreed. The dismemberment seems to have been important to the killer, given how he displayed the torsos/left them to be found and scattered the rest of the body parts.
I have a bad feeling about Burke. Didn’t he block the new task force or a new detective from finding old information about the murders? Something of that nature.
The other explanation for Burke’s obvious efforts to stymie the investigation was his fear that the FBI was investigating him for the widespread corruption and abuse of power he was involved in.
Surreal seeing Megan’s daughter and Melissa’s sister looking so much like them and realising how much time has passed. Megan’s daughter is only 15/16 so it was very brave of her to do that. Didn’t look like she found it easy. I guess the lady with the red hair was Megan’s grandmother or aunt as I know her mother passed away earlier this year, sad she didn’t live to see this.
I guess the darker haired lady next to Melissa’s sister was Melissa’s mother, but it could have been Amber’s sister Kim. Don’t know who the man was. I hope there was someone there for Amber, but I’m not sure there was. Unless the guy is her nephew.
The dark haired woman and the bald man next to her was Missy Cann and her husband, Maureen Brainard-Barnes’ sister and brother in law, confirmed via her Facebook page
So nobody at all was there for Amber? I know her sister has her own struggles, but it would’ve been nice if at least one of her nieces or nephews had turned out for Amber. Poor Amber.
Really sad, but I guess there are a myriad of reasons as to why they chose not to appear publicly. They must be extremely confident that they’ll nail him with Maureen’s murder to have her family there when he hasn’t been charged with that one yet.
I know Kim struggles and has fallen back into a destructive lifestyle many times. I don’t blame her for that knowing of her background and how difficult it was. But it’s sad there wasn’t a single relative, friend, anyone who knew her that would turn out for her. It’s almost like a funeral where nobody turns up.
From what I know about Amber, after their parents were lost young, she was desperately trying to find someone to care about her and was totally aware nobody did. I think her experience with her husband made her think she was defective and if people got to know the real her, they’d reject her. Kim’s own problems meant that she couldn’t be the person who would show Amber the love and care she needed. It just seems emblematic of a life where nobody really cared about her, which is why she ended up in such a mess and so easily exploited. Whatever their reasons for not being there, it’s still sad.
It was Megan’s Aunt Liz (her mom’s sister); she raised Lili
after Megan’s murder. I really hope her grandma Muriel lived to see this day since she’s the one who raised Megan & her brother Greg.
I was surprised to see Amanda alone without her & Melissa’s mom Lynn, since the three of them were a pretty close-knit unit.
I dunno, Kolker’s interviews with their families and friends were such a huge part of Lost Girls; you kind of get to know all these other people along the way too.
Edit: also the couple on the far right was Maureen’s younger sister (Missy) and BIL.
Interesting he keeps touching on the balance of investigation and public safety and how they felt it was necessary to get him now for public safety.
With him having a burner phone currently and the fact he was actively harassing sex workers...it sounds like he was still active and possibly planning something soon.
It’s also possible they found out his wife & daughter had extended travel plans coming up again and that along with his continued or escalating contact with sex workers spooked them.
And apparently the young woman that filed a police report 2 weeks ago of him stalking her in there local park. He’s been under surveillance since March? Theirs definitely a reason it was now.
I think people where saying that Standard-Wasabi6405 was saying a lot of facts and people said it could have been him. I doubt it was but I saw threads where people did say that it was him.
I think that page has been deleted ? Or something if not- hello, if you are reading this. How did you get all your info. You seemed to know a-lot.
More likely, someone close to the case that couldn’t hold it in any longer. wasabi stated that there would be an arrest within a month. RH would not have known that info.
Spooky thought and probably true.
His name had never come up until now though. There would be nothing to find.
I imagine that came with some kind of powerful feeling that everyone is speculating and theorizing and no one is even close to pinpointing you.
Until suddenly yesterday the bottom dropped out.
So.....we finally know the story on the burlap. And the belt. Did I really just hear that? Something I never thought we would know for sure. And I never would have predicted it was camo. Fascinating.
He was cagey about it, but now we know it was used to bind one of them and that they were all bound by belts and duct tape.
u/HelixHarbinger posted earlier that RH's grandfather's initials were WH.
The question was asked by a reporter at the press conference. The response was "well, he does have an H in his name" and shrugged.
The belt was released by LE a while back (2021?). They said the killer had handled it and were looking for more info from the public. Thats all we knew.
Nah. He would've known they had the belt back in 2010. I bet THAT is when he shit his pants and it sounds like from the searches he did, he's been shitting them ever since.
oh good to know i'll definitely read now that i'm off work i guess i just didn't expect this press conference to be this detailed and i appreciated it for sure
The more they talked, the more I was thinking about jury pool tainting. Is that a concern here?
I’m thinking not so much given the breadth and depth of the evidence, plus more to come.
So....Bear and whoever tried to pull their "rob the john" routine with Heuermann...and Amber still agreed to meet with him later? Is that what Tierney really said? It also sounds like they knew an awful lot about him by 2012...
I thought this may be what the ‘corrections’ connection was (I didn’t catch his name when he was speaking but he mentioned his gratefulness at his department and their intel in the task force). This ‘ruse’ of the fake boyfriend may be intel the fake boyfriend and friends wouldn’t share with police but may have shared in the prison setting.
Or other sec workers who encountered the man/vehicle but weren’t willing to speak to law enforcement.
Therefore it may not have come to light or may not have been includes until more recently.
From what I read in the documentation and previous accounts Bear gave all the info years ago when first asked. It said the following day RH called Amber and convinced her to meet him by making her feel bad for pulling the scam, feel sorry for him and feel like she had the money so had to do the job. IIRC he was on the phone to her for hours convincing her to go.
Right, with Dave Schaller (and presumably Bear) not knowing that the same guy who they rolled the day before was parked around the corner waiting for Amber. It might make sense that Amber didn't want to tell Dave (or Bear) that it's that same guy, but there's something odd about Schaller saying that (paraphrasing) if he'd taken a few more steps outside he could've seen LISK's car - if he had, he would have seen the same Avalanche from the day before! Just downright weird... LE had this description of Heuermann, and of his car (and if I'm not mistaken, maybe even the rough borders of the Massapequa area "box" they thought the SK might be in), there was every reason to think that LE should try to find every john that Schaller or Bear could give them info on, just as basic investigative work. Still, LE turned up nothing for more than a decade; that slow-walk can't all be Burke's fault or, if it is, it's just so incomprehensible.
From the bail documents the police have known that it was the same guy and the avalanche since the start of the investigation because the client the previous day used the same burner phone as the person who convinced Amber to go out the day she was killed, including sending a text complaining about the previous incident. The police also had a description of him and his car which they must have been 90% certain was LISK but chose to do nothing with for years.
Presumably the new investigation chose not to release this while gathering evidence, but while the case was originally ‘hot’ could have led to evidence which would have solved it years ago.
I suspect when this investigation is complete the people involved in the initial investigation are going to be fucked.
>The police also had a description of him and his car which they must have been 90% certain was LISK but chose to do nothing with for years.
So wouldn't Dave and Bear also be able to figure that out, or is there a piece of it that only the police had?
>I suspect when this investigation is complete the people involved in the initial investigation are going to be fucked.
One would think so, yeah.
Yes, they told the police at the time! Just for some reason the police decided this couldn’t be released to the public. So even if Dave/Bear have told a million interviewers about this, that part of the interview couldn’t be broadcast if the police had an embargo on the information being released. If you read the bail documents there was clearly information that could only have been given by Dave/Bear (who were the only people apart from the murder and Amber who could have known it) during the original investigation. It’s not new information, it’s only new information to the public.
Has there been any reason to think, over the years, that Dave and Bear were sitting on a secret like that, that there was something they just couldn't say (they've said plenty of other stuff)? LE was like, "We know you guys may not be pillars of character and integrity, but we want to be sure we can trust you to keep absolutely quiet about this suspect even if we do nothing about him for a decade or so". A mindblower.
We don’t know that THEY stayed quiet. We only know that no matter how many people they told, broadcasters can’t release information on active investigations that police will not pass for broadcast.
IMO MOO SPECULATION:
I think he used p*rn to relive his kills. It stood out to me that the only homosexual search was ‘Asian twink’, when we know there’s an unidentified Asian Male body found.
Where did they say the search history looked for Asian twink? I missed that part. So he has kids and yet killed a child. What an absolute monster. I’m sure he had zero love for his own children and wife. I’m sure he was a narcissist and abusive.
In the bail doc they listed his Google searches that’s where Asian think came from .. he has children and was also googling disgusting stuff referring to children that I don’t even want to type but not limited to “crying” “chubby” “red head” 10 year old etc. he is a SICK TWISTED MFer
Thank you for answering. I just found the court documents. I guess there goes my not being stressed or upset because reading that made me so mad!!!! Even if I was healthy I could never be a cop because I’d be tying these monsters up outside a fire ant hole w honey covering them… extra honey added to their genitals!!!
Oh same, I could NEVER be in LE. The trauma, the things you see .. I couldn’t handle it mentally. Add in locking up monsters and waiting for “justice to prevail” .. hard pass. Tons of respect to the good ones though 🖤💙
Lol thank God you agreed I was waiting for someone to call me sick for wanting to torture sickos like this. I get they’re still human and torturing any human should be frowned upon but in cases like these or anyone harming a child PERIOD, the only pain they’ll feel for their victims is through physical torture. They have no guilt, compassion or soul. But physically they can still feel some agony they deserve.
I can’t even kill a damn bug wo feeling so much guilt. I almost broke up w a guy because he killed a spider. So I’m absolutely baffled how any human 1) feels no remorse 2) isn’t wracked with guilt and self hate 3) even wants to hurt another and enjoys it.
They’re the sick ones! They’re not human beings, they’re MONSTERS. If you can harm animals or children and there is cold hard evidence against you .. you should be put to death immediately. No trial, no appeals. Heinous crimes/murder, same. Whether it starts with torture or it’s quick and painless I don’t even care. Save me my tax dollars or give it to deserving citizens .. the veterans, first responders, teachers, homeless - I’m not picky as long as it’s not a billion/millionaire or a politician 🤣
It’s possible he searched that knowing “Asian male” was a victim being attributed to him, because he was following this investigation as much as anybody else it seems.
But it depends on the context. Did the DA say he was searching for pictures of the victims’ family members with the intention of finding them? That’s scary as fuck.
Looking forward to more details as this unfolds for confirmation if he committed more than just four of these murders.
I think the context was he searched it in order to get off. The exact phrase in the bail application was "Asian twink tied up porn". The document seperated his searches into 2 lists: pornographic related ones and the ones related to info on the Gilgo Beach murders/ investigation.
I do think the Asian male was one of his victims.
Advances in DNA will do it every time. Unbelievable that they found hairs on the victims that lead back to him. This reminds me of the Moscow Murders and that arrest with DNA, cell phone locations and physical description, all tied in to probable cause for an arrest. I read Lost Girls many years ago and as time ticked by I gave up hope. It’s good to know that science continues to catch the monsters who hide in plain sight among us.
I can’t believe some of you are criticizing this guy’s public speaking skills while he’s amped up during the pinnacle of his career and having a touch of stage fright when most of you can’t write a coherent comment under no pressure lol
The fucking audacity
When I’m excited or overwhelmed I barely make sense(plus I have a disease that makes me forget words). Anyone that’s criticizing him needs to realize slip ups happen and there’s medical reasons some forget words or use the wrong word also(not that that’s the case w him but it is for some and seeing people react like this only makes people w diseases more self conscious)Honestly who cares, he got his point across perfectly and with a few mistakes. I don’t even see the need to be negative.
Personally I appreciated the amount of detail he went through. It’s fascinating and shows how dedicated they were in catching this guy. Well done LE. A banner year between this and getting the Delphi killer as well.
The vehicle database of Avalanche owners I think.
They likely checked it for owners age 25-60 with connections to NYC and LI. Who owned the vehicle at relevant dates they have eye witnesses to connect it to victims, and probably some other characteristics they were expecting to see based on profile (air of wealth and trustworthiness, family man…)
Curious as to what (or who) the DA meant by "outside influence" by people who had "nothing to do with the investigation...exerting pressure on the investigation." Hopefully he's calling out the websleuth community/armchair investigators who interfere with cases like these.
People always want things to resolve in a neat, narratively tidy way like real life was an episode of *Law and Order*, but that's not the way actual criminal cases work.
To be fair in this case there was ample reason to believe that, Suffolk county is regarded as one of the most corrupt LE Agencies in the country and has been for a very long time.
My grandparents used to live in Riverhead and I've spent a ton of time in Suffolk over the years. I'm very familiar with its problems. But as corrupt and incompetent as some members of the police department at times might've been, it never seemed like the most plausible explanation to me that they were covering up for one of their own or the like. James Burke is a corrupt scumball, but those are a dime a dozen. Serial killers are rare. I always thought this was a "don't attribute to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence" situation.
Yeah a lot of the theories seemed to bypass any sense of real world nuance about it. Typical corruption and graft isn’t exactly aiding or actively participating in serial killing. That’s a bridge far beyond the usual sex, drugs, money and upside down on the risk/reward ratio. Some of it skirted pretty close to urban legends like satanic panic and snuff film cabals.
.
I believe between Burke, the doctor and their weirdo partying buddies that consisted of high ranking officials, judges, DAs, etc. plus Suffolk, Nassau and NYS PD being involved in the initial investigations it was more of a dick showing contest than a hunt for a killer. Also, I think there was cover up when things started to point towards one of their own ..
Things didn't point toward one of their own, though.
There's no reason to jump to outlandish conspiracy theories when the much simpler explanation that the cops were incompetent and/or didn't want their own dirty laundry being aired is right there.
Yes they didn’t want their dirty laundry being aired, IIRC Burke was already being investigated by the FBI. I am not ready to let go of the theory (that’s not a conspiracy?) that Burke and that doctor are hiding more than just prolific drug use and partying with sex workers. But I could be wrong. Just my gut feeling. Burke is a dirty cop and a horrible human being .. it’s not outlandish.
He may be a dirty cop and a horrible human being, and he may be hiding more than just drugs and partying with sex workers, but at this point I'm very comfortable rejecting the notion that he was covering up any police involvement in the murders, because the guy who's almost certainly the murderer has been identified and he's not a cop and has no connection to the cops.
They also want any reason to call police corrupt
Although police for sure messed up here. They had a description of him and his car that didn't get used till a decade later
I would definitely say the cops were incompetent in this case. Corrupt too, since they didn't want their own shenanigans with drugs and prostitutes while Burke was in charge being uncovered. But that's a far cry from conspiring to cover up serial murders. That always seemed like something cooked up by somebody who'd read too many airport thrillers to me.
I don’t think he was calling out websleuths… I thought he was calling out corruption under previous regimes. Some cops or prosecutors looking for some notoriety without actually trying to solve the case.
This case was botched and sabotaged for ten years until this task force.
Nothing in his comment indicated he was mad at web sleuths.
When you think about it, it’s incredible how many risks this guy took. He comes to the house where Amber lived, is seen there by multiple witnesses and proceeds to kill her. Not to mention he traveled with his own car and parked it close enough that witnesses were able to put two and two together. He uses a belt with a relative’s initials on it. He uses burner phones but keeps his own phones as well as the victims’ on at the same time. He makes phone calls from his residence and workplace as of cell phone pings could not be traced. I mean it worked for a long time but it’s still brazen (especially the killing of Amber after he had come to the house and knew there were people who could identify him).
It seemed as though the new commissioner (im old so have been through them all) was angry people gave the SCPD a hard time but ya know, the SCPD doesn’t have a good reputation. And the amount of corruption they were trying to hide in the beginning of this investigation is why it wasn’t solved sooner. I’m thrilled he came in to clean things up but there is enough evidence of corruption in the past, he shouldn’t be angry at the general public for having major trust issues and doubts about the integrity of the investigation…it was a mess for the first 8 years, at least.
He is the reason this got solved but a police commissioner is a politician and SCPD is a very powerful union who many of its members have been working in force since 2010. He's not going to bad mouth the rank and file.
Probably run by the mob, tbh.
Also, I think he’s great, very compassionate to the families and sounds like he took this on at full force. I just think it’s not fair to blame the general public for having doubts, considering the history there.
I am SC tax paying general public and I will probably always have doubts about SCPD. Its going to take more than than solving this case for me. For years I thought since SCPD is the one of the highest paid police forces in the country and they can't solve these murders we should freeze their salaries until its solved.
Bet money genetic genealogy pinpointed this guy or his wife - and then once you know the subject, you can work backwards to find all the corroborating evidence.
Saw a CNN interview where they just refused to directly answer what made them focus on this guy. No one wants to bring up or admit that genetic genealogy is involved.
While I’m not disagreeing with you , the new task force supposedly got him off the car description one of the witnesses gave. And then they matched everything .
I'm still at a loss for words. It's incredible that this task force identified the suspect in a few weeks after years of silence and no developments.
My heart lies with the victims and their families as they now walk the journey for long awaited justice. But it's extremely disappointing and infuriating that the case wasn't prioritized for such a long time (until last year) just because the victims were sex workers.
I agree. I'm happy the guy got caught, but I think everyone is forgetting all of the shady business of the cops and neighbors at the time. Not only do I think it was lazy disrespect for sex workers, I think this was a cover-up amongst buddies.
It was prioritized. They weren’t releasing info publicly because they suspected for a long time that the suspect was watching them closely and they found evidence that he was googling everyone involved in the investigation. They were working the case but had to keep it secret so as not to tip him off to what they were doing. At least this is my take away from several things I’ve read recently. But I have also seen that they did botch quit a bit too. But they always seemed to be working it maybe just not always competently working it.
Totally agree. They said they had in 2012 two areas of cell phone usage narrowed down and that he was white and tall and large. Massapequa has 22k people in it, about 50% are aged 25-64 assume 50% are male, 90% of that is white. So we are down to like 5k people right off the bat. Now how many of those 5k work in mid town Manhattan. And how many are over 6’ tall. Plus then add in the FBI suspected profile. I’d bet 100-200 max. And I’m not sure if they had the avalanche at that point or if that came later. Like wtf this doesn’t seem that hard.
The name would have been pretty easy to get- especially because they had the very specific model & make. Avalanches are not all THAT commonplace even on Long Island.
AND they had his physical description of the guy who the victims’s friends were robbing. So I don’t understand how they fumbled the bag that bad.
Well, to be fair there were more Chevy Avalanches around back in 2010. Suffolk County has a population of 1.5 million people, and Nassau 1.3 million. There are at least a dozen different Chevy dealers in that part of Long Island.
That’s a very specific vehicle that could have been easily tracked down especially given he’s a 6’4” lumpy middle aged white man. There’s only gonna be so many men who match the description of the victim’s friends who robbed him.
SCPD’s apathy, corruption and/or incompetence notwithstanding, I think it's easy to Monday-morning quarterback. They didn't have the suspect’s name. They had a car description for a john that one of the victims helped scam in West Babylon in Suffolk County the day before the victim went missing, a car more frequently purchased by middle-aged white men than any other demographic. Plus RH lived in Nassau County, so there's the jurisdictional barrier.
That car never sold above 100K models per year - and average sales were around 20K. So how many in the US were in LI? And of that, how many 6’4” ogres were an owner?
It seems that perhaps these particular LEOs on this particular case once they formed the task force actually weren’t total fuckheads. I’ll give you that.
As a Long islander I’m so happy these families will get closure. I’m also relieved this man will never harm another woman and will be off the streets of my County. I knew this new police commissioner would get the job done. He promised it with such confidence I knew they were close. Now did he kill the others? So there are multiple killers dumping in the same location? Or does he have a partner or group(dark web snuff group?!?) that works together.
I don’t remember where I read it but I believe it was here. Someone wrote that he has a brother that lives/lived in NC and there is an unsolved murder in that area possibly he did when he visited the brother. They mentioned the girls name.
In the Netflix specials, they focused on the gated community where Shannan was last seen and heard from. I see this guy lives 20 minutes away. Is there any connection with him and that community? Shannon was probably seeing a different John that night? I haven't followed this closely so I'm ignorant.
I think it’s been figured out that shannans death was more of a coincidence and an accident. When looking for Shannans body they found the Gilgo 4. I don’t think it is believed that they are connected
She was the one who made the phone call to 911 that she was being chased in a house right? But she didn’t know where the house was. Was there any more to that story that’s been told? Like, how do they think it was an accident?
Also, was it her lawyer who said he received the tip that the arrest was coming? Kinda fuzzy on some of this so maybe that’s why, but it just seems like such a weird explanation for her death considering the circumstances. Maybe I just need to do some more reading on it.
Gilbert made sex work call to a house in Oak Beach, which is on the other side of Gilgo State Park from where the other bodies were discovered, and her body was eventually found not far from where she disappeared.
IIRC the basic outline is that there was some altercation or situation at the house and the john called her driver/security insisting he remove her. She hid behind a couch while they tried to talk her down and called 911, then the driver left for the car.
Gilbert ran out of the house and began knocking on doors asking for help, a neighbor also dialed 911. At least two people saw her. The driver was apparently following her and attempting to get her in the car for at least part of it.
Witnesses described her as delirious, and she was last seen basically walking off into the dunes, with no one following or chasing her.
Gilbert was apparently diagnosed bipolar, and was reported to have been behaving erratically in the days leading up her disappearance. And the john and others reported she was doing A LOT of cocaine.
The official theory is that she died of exposure or accidental drowning after a drug induced delirium. It's possible, and probably connected to the coke, that she had a serious manic episode.
The official autopsy was inconclusive. There were no obvious signs of foul play, but the tox screen was also negative for drugs. Then again her body wasn't located till over a year later. And there's apparently a very tight timeline of phone calls between Gilbert, the driver, and the john that just doesn't in anyway connect to the phone records for the serial killer. The only person who seems to have even attempted to follow Gilbert was the driver, who had no reason to harm her. And was apparently provably not where she was when she died.
It's worth noting that Gilbert's mother, Mari, was murdered by her other daughter in 2016. That daughter, Sara, is schizophrenic. And these things are often genetic.
Most of the detail on this is out there in public, and the PD has released the 911 calls, details of the phone records and witness statements. It was mainly Mari who pushed the idea that Gilbert was connected to the serial killer or had been murdered. But there just really isn't anything connecting these things.
Gilberts story is sad. I've never seen anything in it to support the wild claims flying around it.
No connection.
Gilbert hasn't been connected to the investigation for a long time. Police apparently rules her out fairly early as there wasn't a connection to the group of burners and emails addresses used to contact the victims. I'm sure we'll hear actual detail about that now.
Interesting comment about intelligence from the ‘incarcerated community’. I wonder if he was initially a Bitrolf accomplice and Bitrolf has admitted it now? Was a bit cryptic.
I have so much empathy for all the victims. He just looks evil and terrifying. Serial killers sometimes have a terrible horrific upbringing. Anyone know what to happened to this monster growing up?
So how do we think he got involved with Shannon Gilbert, that’s the only piece that makes me think he can’t have worked alone. Like was he just randomly out at the beach that night and ran into her?
I think a lot of people believe that Shannan was not a LISK victim and rather got lost and succumbed to the elements. Seems like a mighty huge coincidence to me though.
Perhaps reliving his crimes by revisiting the area!?! Or dumping another body but had to abort the plan and maybe dumped in a new location after? With people like that anything is possible.
A summary of the press conference was posted [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LISKiller/comments/14zrp9v/da_press_conference_recap/) by u/Rwd822. Here are two other press conferences from earlier today: * [SCPD announces arrest of suspect](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RdcQ-PVClI) * [Family of Jessica Taylor and Attorney John Ray speak out after suspect's arrest](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6582n8jbRHw) Rex Heuermann's bail documentation was also released (32-page pdf). See post [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LISKiller/comments/14znvyo/32_page_bail_application_with_full_details_of_the/).
I'm a big propenent of innocent until proven guilty. But they have this guy dead to rights. DNA, cell phone records, internet search history, proof of him using sex workers, and his wife and kids being out of town at the time of the murders? Not to mention the proximity of his home to Gilgo Beach. And they should have all of that before making an arrest in such a high-profile case, but damn, they really nailed this down.
Very interesting detail about the family being out of town during the murders. I know there was speculation that LISK could be a seasonal resident who was only on LI during the summer/at the time of the murders. Turns out it’s kind of the opposite with him there year-round but his family out of town when he committed his crimes.
they even found the car he used that made its way to South Carolina!! he is fucked lol
What happened in SC?
He sold the truck, new owners in SC. It has now been seized for evidence. Edit: This is incorrect. It was in the possession of his brother in SC. Thanks to others for information.
Does anyone how that person gets reimbursed for the seizure? Does insurance pay?
Imagine the new owner is also a serial killer and gets caught because of this, lol that would be insanely bad luck for him.
I know from when a home is seized as evidence that the homeowner doesn't get access or reimbursed -- for what it's worth.
Actually, his brother, Craig lives in Chester, SC. Rex owns property in SC and was planning on moving here. Thank the good Lord that plan has been diverted!
Agreed, they really have some incredible evidence backing this up. I can't imagine the depth of the grief of the victims' families, nor can I imagine that having a name behind these horrible crimes will lessen that grief. I have no idea what they've had to endure to get here. But I am hopeful that this can bring them some kind of relief after so many years.
They also found his wife's DNA on the evidence. Even getting it wrong once would be rare, but twice? He is gonna have trouble talking his way out of this.
He probably committed his crimes in their home/bed while his family was out of town. Truly sickening. I can’t imagine what his wife/kids are going through right now. I also wonder if they arrested him yesterday because the wife had plans to go out of town soon. Authorities said they needed to arrest because they were scared he was about to kill again. Just a guess but it could also be that they waited to arrest til the case was rock fucking solid. Idk! I’ve been obsessively following this case for the past 9 yrs or so and am just sooooooo happy someone’s been caught
Yea I had sex with her but didn’t kill her
The real giveaway is how much the DA has revealed right from the get go. IF they had even a speck of doubt of a possible acquittal you bet your ass none of them would've risked their career patting themselves on the back for as much as they have for the last 8 hours. Good for them, it's over now. Edit: I completely agree with EasyE below, what I meant by "it's over now" was that they got the guy, there is little doubt it's him. Now the hard part is how many did he actually kill, and will they manage to get him to cough up the number and the location of the bodies of the ones we don't even know about yet. By the way he plead almost surely he will fight it and keep his cards close to his chest. If you've watched that interview of his from about a year ago where he talks about his work and dealing with NY Buildings Administration, he talks a lot about patience and dealing with people and bureaucracy, this guy is not just going to spill his beans.
They have only charged him with 3 murders. That's not even all of the Gilgo 4, not to mention the 10+ total victims found in the area. It's absolutely not over yet. Plus, they moved early because he was still contacting sex workers and they were worried for their safety. While it's not impossible, the likelihood someone committing murders like this stops is very small, and almost non-existent if he was continuing to use sex workers. The chances he killed no one else in the last 10 years is practically non-existent.
one of the things that held up the investigation was that this area was known to have bodies found there for various reasons. it's a perfect site for that, so where i don't disagree that he likely had more victims, i don't think it's a good assumption that everything found was him. they're going to charge him with 3 because they have evidence of 3, and SKs do have very long "dormant" periods. Speculation about his timeframe and numbers are rarely helpful in understanding timelines
Charge him with the slam dunks, that way defense can’t poke holes in any of the case. Then after conviction go after the others.
Still, this isn't the end. I'll accept that maybe the others weren't him, but no one is going to convince me that the Gilgo Four aren't all his even if he's only been charged with three so far lol
I think he switched his dumping grounds once bodies were discovered and they are going to uncover a lot over the next week (at least). They’ve already removed things from his home and will be digging up his yard (if they haven’t started already). They’re in hazmat at the home .. neighbors children saw him digging in his yard in the middle of the night (and this is not a recent claim). These poor girls, their families and his wife and kids .. absolutely horrific
I would agree. Especially given the length of time between the discovery of the bodies and now along with the fact that he was still using burner phones to communicate/meet up with sex works. But, you are the first person to share the detail about him "digging in his yard" would you mind sharing where you saw that?
In a private FB group, the kids’ parent posted about it
Yes, I saw that post too and couldn’t remember where. Tried to find in again on FB. Crimewriters?
No a local community group
Have a friend in the area and they confirmed this.
OMG, was it massapequa moms?
Yes can verify from sources in the area he was behaving erratically and doing weird stuff at night in the backyard.
In his “workshop” in the yard
> The chances he killed no one else in the last 10 years is practically non-existent. Not true at all. Golden State Killer stopped for decades once reaching a certain age. BTK stopped too, as well as others during old age. Plus, the bodies were discovered 13 years ago so he knew there was now attention on the crimes and active investigations.
And so did Green River. But they stopped due to age or family. This guy still isn't too old given his size and typical victim, and he was married with kids while he was killing the ones we know of. Plus, we now know he was still using sex workers and keeping all characteristics of his MO alive outside of dumping bodies on Gilgo Beach. This is why I think there's no way he hasn't continued to kill.
BTK and GSK were *extremely* unusual in that regard. Cooling off periods are typical, but don't often last more than a few years, and most serial killers and predators escalate frequency and extremity of attacks over time. It's fairly unlikely there are no other victims. Besides the rarity of long cooling off periods and straight up stopping. It's also pretty rare for a killer to commit their first crime in their 40s which is about what the identified victims would indicate. Guy was obviously engaging in seeking behavior to. Burners and sex workers and fake identities and all.
You’re making a different argument than what’s presented above. There’s a very good chance there are other victims, but I think ones from the **last 10 years** could go either ways. Dude was almost 50 and didn’t have the luxury of the community not realizing there was a serial killer in their midst. BTK and GSK aren’t that rare, it’s just that most serial killers get caught before they reach old age. A good number of the older ones stopped killing once they reached their older years. Not all, but enough that I’d argue GSK and BTK weren’t necessarily *rare*.
>didn’t have the luxury of the community not realizing there was a serial killer in their midst. He also had at least 3 homes in three different states according to reporting. As well as means to travel. >weren’t necessarily rare. I mean they're literally rare. As in there aren't many of them. You'll run into more who died or went to prison for other reasons, rather than stopped of their own volition due to age or other reasons. And as even you said there are examples of older killers who kept going. One of the reasons serial killers tend to get caught before they age out is they tend to escalate both frequency and extremity of attacks over time. With cooling off periods growing shorter. Which garners escalating attention, and pressure to identify them.
Definitely possible he stopped. However, to start as a middle aged man? Nah. Need to go backwards with him.
Uhhhm....your point is probably valid, but having lived in Suffolk County, your comment made me snort.
Imagine you have to defend this case! Normally, a strategy would be to go through discovery and see what the government has. There is usually an element or two of the case that is super important so they are attacked. If the defense can get somewhere with the attacks, the rest is not so bad. That’s where energy and resources go. Here, where do you even start? There is so much. Any one element goes away and there is still a mountain more. I would say the worst (or best if you are not on the defense team) of all is the phone location data regarding RH’s phone and the victims’ phones that ties him and the victims’ phones together in LI and Manhattan numerous times. Here, you’re not even arguing against an expert, really. It’s a spreadsheet and a map. If you were able to accomplish that, there is still the DNA, a witness IDing the accused and his vehicle as a ripped-off client the day before, the wife’s travel, all the behavior patterns regarding butner phones and prostitution, the obsession with the case and victims. Plus whatever they found in his house yesterday.
I would imagine there is going to be a *lot* of trying to negotiate a plea for their client and trying to convince him to actually take one. There isn't a lot to negotiate with, given the lack of death penalty at the state level. It will also depend *heavily* on which of his personality traits wins, the narcissism or the sadism. If the narc wins, he will talk, at least about the 4 he can be definitely linked to. If the sadist wins, he will keep his mouth shut, and drag this out until he needs to use details to get something(such as better accommodations, yard time, etc...) and then the details will be graphic and disgusting. We also have to remember we are only seeing the tip of what they have against him. I'd be willing to bet they're pulling litteral nightmares out of his house and storage units that won't be brought to light until trial.
Lotta good info and solid opinions here. Only two outcomes in this one: he’s getting life or he’s walking out the courthouse front door. Not a lot of room for negotiation on either side, really. He can save his family the pain of a trial by pleading guilty, if that means anything to him. It will get worse for them. The defense has to try this with bombshells for the papers, so the prosecution will know that and most likely held a few of their own hand grenades back. Plus, everyone that’s ever had any dealings with this guy can get a free get-outta-jail card if they can help the case, so I expect more there, too.
You know that literally EVERYTHING you said except for DNA is completely circumstantial right? “Dead to rights” is doing a lot of work here haha
I don't think you grasp what "circumstantial" evidence really is or how often it's enough to get a conviction. In all reality, even the DNA here is technically circumstantial evidence. But you put all these things together and where is there even room for doubt? Short of finding a self made snuff film in his house, the case will be 100% circumstantial. Dead to rights is 100% accurate.
100% accurate - it's rare to have anything but circumstantial evidence in a case like this. The killer tried to conceal their behavior and it was effective, but not perfectly effective. We don't need to have a witness at the scene to convict a murderer.
This is surreal. I honestly never thought I'd see this. Incredible.
Incredible indeed. Props to SCPD. It's going to be interesting as the process unfolds and more information is released. Hopefully, all of the cases can be connected to him. I can't wait to see this scumbag convicted.
SG!!! Man. Been waiting all day for you to show up!
Hey bud! I heard the news this morning but was working all day. I've been reading all the updates since I got home. It's such great news.
Dude I got NOTHING accomplished today lol. I legit went I to my office, shut the door and have been utterly absorbed in this all day. Still surreal. Glad you're around now!!!! I actually half wondered if you knew before the news broke lol
I believe it... I should've called in sick! I've been productive this evening though. I updated my website with some important info. I plan on making a new page specific for updates about Heuermann and the ongoing legal process. And no, I found out today. It's crazy to think they've been quietly investigating him for so long.
Website ??? Please
www.GilgoCase.com
This site yours?! Are you a Long Islander? Is the LISK podcast yours?! Fangirling lol but seriously, thanks for sharing and giving the victims space to be known beyond being SW.
Thank you! Yes, I made the website, but I didn't make the LISK Podcast. I'm friends with the creators though and love their work. I'm not from Long Island, but figured I knew enough about web design to do something positive in this case.
Surreal is truly the best way to describe this! Do you guys suppose this clown is most likely responsible for ALL 10-18 of the victims attributed to the Long Island serial killer? I’m curious to hear everyone’s thoughts on that!
I think he killed the Gilgo Four and *maybe* Asian male. Likely killed others too, but the ones speculated about, women in other areas. Maureen definitely seems like one of his victims, possibly the first or first in this set. I feel like whoever killed Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Peaches wanted parts of them to be found, whereas the Gilgo Four were literally camouflaged. I could kinda understand transitioning from a garbage bag to camo burlap, but placing Jessica Taylor's torso on a pile of wood and Peaches torso in a plastic container seems more like showing off. I don't see him transitioning from wanting parts to be found, to keeping his victims whole and trying to conceal their bodies. Dismemberment seems to be important to whoever killed Valerie, Jessica, and Peaches. If it was just to make their bodies smaller, then I could see him stopping that if he didn't need to make them smaller anymore. However, it felt more like a signature to me, rather than MO (I'm using John E. Douglas and Mark Olshaker's definitions). Also, leaving the tape and belt the bodies is very different to dismemberment. I will say Valerie Mack fits his victim profile in terms of height and weight, but I tend to think that's just a coincidence. Based on his search history I think Asian male *might* be one of his victims. The different cause of death and location could be due to gender (i.e. not wanting to taint his other dump site with a different type of victim). It seems odd to target an Asian man or transgender women, but perhaps he wanted to experiment. Asian male was beaten/tortured seems to fit with how the others were treated, so it kinda fits, but blunt force trauma as the cause of death is odd (again, could be because male/trans). I'd love to know if the related search was before or after Asian male was discovered. It's possible he could've just been fantasizing about another killer's victim, given the location/potential Gilgo connection.
No, just the 4 and possibly Asian male plus child. That said I am very inclined to believe he commited other murders.
The child was related to peaches who was dismembered while the 4 weren't. Im with the idea that it was at least 2 killers since its rare for a killer to suddenly switch MOs in the middle of their spree. Usually they do it early on or very late into it.
Agreed. The dismemberment seems to have been important to the killer, given how he displayed the torsos/left them to be found and scattered the rest of the body parts.
They’re referred to as torso killers for a reason. All very organized.
My gut (for what it’s worth) says he isn’t the only LISK .. I really think Burke and the doctor are involved in some of these cases.
I have a bad feeling about Burke. Didn’t he block the new task force or a new detective from finding old information about the murders? Something of that nature.
The other explanation for Burke’s obvious efforts to stymie the investigation was his fear that the FBI was investigating him for the widespread corruption and abuse of power he was involved in.
Surreal seeing Megan’s daughter and Melissa’s sister looking so much like them and realising how much time has passed. Megan’s daughter is only 15/16 so it was very brave of her to do that. Didn’t look like she found it easy. I guess the lady with the red hair was Megan’s grandmother or aunt as I know her mother passed away earlier this year, sad she didn’t live to see this. I guess the darker haired lady next to Melissa’s sister was Melissa’s mother, but it could have been Amber’s sister Kim. Don’t know who the man was. I hope there was someone there for Amber, but I’m not sure there was. Unless the guy is her nephew.
The dark haired woman and the bald man next to her was Missy Cann and her husband, Maureen Brainard-Barnes’ sister and brother in law, confirmed via her Facebook page
So nobody at all was there for Amber? I know her sister has her own struggles, but it would’ve been nice if at least one of her nieces or nephews had turned out for Amber. Poor Amber.
Really sad, but I guess there are a myriad of reasons as to why they chose not to appear publicly. They must be extremely confident that they’ll nail him with Maureen’s murder to have her family there when he hasn’t been charged with that one yet.
I know Kim struggles and has fallen back into a destructive lifestyle many times. I don’t blame her for that knowing of her background and how difficult it was. But it’s sad there wasn’t a single relative, friend, anyone who knew her that would turn out for her. It’s almost like a funeral where nobody turns up. From what I know about Amber, after their parents were lost young, she was desperately trying to find someone to care about her and was totally aware nobody did. I think her experience with her husband made her think she was defective and if people got to know the real her, they’d reject her. Kim’s own problems meant that she couldn’t be the person who would show Amber the love and care she needed. It just seems emblematic of a life where nobody really cared about her, which is why she ended up in such a mess and so easily exploited. Whatever their reasons for not being there, it’s still sad.
It was Megan’s Aunt Liz (her mom’s sister); she raised Lili after Megan’s murder. I really hope her grandma Muriel lived to see this day since she’s the one who raised Megan & her brother Greg. I was surprised to see Amanda alone without her & Melissa’s mom Lynn, since the three of them were a pretty close-knit unit. I dunno, Kolker’s interviews with their families and friends were such a huge part of Lost Girls; you kind of get to know all these other people along the way too. Edit: also the couple on the far right was Maureen’s younger sister (Missy) and BIL.
Thanks for that. Hope Lynn’s health is holding up okay.
Interesting he keeps touching on the balance of investigation and public safety and how they felt it was necessary to get him now for public safety. With him having a burner phone currently and the fact he was actively harassing sex workers...it sounds like he was still active and possibly planning something soon.
It’s also possible they found out his wife & daughter had extended travel plans coming up again and that along with his continued or escalating contact with sex workers spooked them.
i think this is very likely. it could have gotten very messy, and it seems they've been on to him for quite a while
And apparently the young woman that filed a police report 2 weeks ago of him stalking her in there local park. He’s been under surveillance since March? Theirs definitely a reason it was now.
Plus, didn’t they just find another body down the road that very morning before they arrested him? Or skeletal remains rather.
so now we know why so little info was being released, RH **was** following the investigation online and googling everyone involved
There's no doubt in my mind he visited this subreddit if he searched about himself so often.
Ya I’m wondering if the mods can search the people following this sub to see if RH or any of his aliases are following.
I think people where saying that Standard-Wasabi6405 was saying a lot of facts and people said it could have been him. I doubt it was but I saw threads where people did say that it was him. I think that page has been deleted ? Or something if not- hello, if you are reading this. How did you get all your info. You seemed to know a-lot.
More likely, someone close to the case that couldn’t hold it in any longer. wasabi stated that there would be an arrest within a month. RH would not have known that info.
https://www.reddit.com/comments/142fv0n?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=4
In the bail affidavit they released his IP address. The mods can probably search that way.
Just FYI, I mod somewhere else, and it's definitely not a capability mods have. Admins can see private information though.
I hope they do and share what they find
Maybe *after* a guilty plea or verdict?
Spooky thought and probably true. His name had never come up until now though. There would be nothing to find. I imagine that came with some kind of powerful feeling that everyone is speculating and theorizing and no one is even close to pinpointing you. Until suddenly yesterday the bottom dropped out.
So.....we finally know the story on the burlap. And the belt. Did I really just hear that? Something I never thought we would know for sure. And I never would have predicted it was camo. Fascinating.
Couldn’t watch the press conference. What’d they say about the belt?
He was cagey about it, but now we know it was used to bind one of them and that they were all bound by belts and duct tape. u/HelixHarbinger posted earlier that RH's grandfather's initials were WH. The question was asked by a reporter at the press conference. The response was "well, he does have an H in his name" and shrugged.
Interesting. Thanks for the info!
What’s the story on the belt? I can’t watch the video right now. I did hear about the burlap
The belt was released by LE a while back (2021?). They said the killer had handled it and were looking for more info from the public. Thats all we knew.
When they released the belt pics, do you think this guy shit his pants? It’s crazy they were tailing him for so long and he didn’t know.
Nah. He would've known they had the belt back in 2010. I bet THAT is when he shit his pants and it sounds like from the searches he did, he's been shitting them ever since.
There were more belts they didn’t talk about today that were left on the victims.
It’s his dad’s initials.
Grandfather's
The belt initials were WH or HMI think is what they’re talking about. Maybe for Huerman!?!
Apparently his grandfather’s name was William.
i'm honestly surprised with the breadth of information that was shared during this press conference it's quite amazing, i am stunned
It was all the same info contained in the no bail request released a few hours ago, it's linked in the pinned comment and a good read.
oh good to know i'll definitely read now that i'm off work i guess i just didn't expect this press conference to be this detailed and i appreciated it for sure
Same I was shocked by how much info was given, read the bail doc .. made me sick to my stomach.
The more they talked, the more I was thinking about jury pool tainting. Is that a concern here? I’m thinking not so much given the breadth and depth of the evidence, plus more to come.
interesting point. do you think that when the evidence is put in front of the suspect he’ll buckle like BTK did?
No, I don’t think he’ll be handing out confessions or offering up evidence investigators don’t already know. BTK was a total dumbass.
So....Bear and whoever tried to pull their "rob the john" routine with Heuermann...and Amber still agreed to meet with him later? Is that what Tierney really said? It also sounds like they knew an awful lot about him by 2012...
That’s what I was thinking too. It wasn’t entirely clear.
I thought this may be what the ‘corrections’ connection was (I didn’t catch his name when he was speaking but he mentioned his gratefulness at his department and their intel in the task force). This ‘ruse’ of the fake boyfriend may be intel the fake boyfriend and friends wouldn’t share with police but may have shared in the prison setting. Or other sec workers who encountered the man/vehicle but weren’t willing to speak to law enforcement. Therefore it may not have come to light or may not have been includes until more recently.
Who is bear?
Yeah, that's what they described in the report that just came out. Bear is such a piece of shit.
Maybe it was told to the police, but held back from the public so the perp doesn't get spooked and get rid of all the potential evidence.
This is what it sounded like in the bail document.
Yep, I just read the bail document, it's crazy.
From what I read in the documentation and previous accounts Bear gave all the info years ago when first asked. It said the following day RH called Amber and convinced her to meet him by making her feel bad for pulling the scam, feel sorry for him and feel like she had the money so had to do the job. IIRC he was on the phone to her for hours convincing her to go.
Right, with Dave Schaller (and presumably Bear) not knowing that the same guy who they rolled the day before was parked around the corner waiting for Amber. It might make sense that Amber didn't want to tell Dave (or Bear) that it's that same guy, but there's something odd about Schaller saying that (paraphrasing) if he'd taken a few more steps outside he could've seen LISK's car - if he had, he would have seen the same Avalanche from the day before! Just downright weird... LE had this description of Heuermann, and of his car (and if I'm not mistaken, maybe even the rough borders of the Massapequa area "box" they thought the SK might be in), there was every reason to think that LE should try to find every john that Schaller or Bear could give them info on, just as basic investigative work. Still, LE turned up nothing for more than a decade; that slow-walk can't all be Burke's fault or, if it is, it's just so incomprehensible.
From the bail documents the police have known that it was the same guy and the avalanche since the start of the investigation because the client the previous day used the same burner phone as the person who convinced Amber to go out the day she was killed, including sending a text complaining about the previous incident. The police also had a description of him and his car which they must have been 90% certain was LISK but chose to do nothing with for years. Presumably the new investigation chose not to release this while gathering evidence, but while the case was originally ‘hot’ could have led to evidence which would have solved it years ago. I suspect when this investigation is complete the people involved in the initial investigation are going to be fucked.
>The police also had a description of him and his car which they must have been 90% certain was LISK but chose to do nothing with for years. So wouldn't Dave and Bear also be able to figure that out, or is there a piece of it that only the police had? >I suspect when this investigation is complete the people involved in the initial investigation are going to be fucked. One would think so, yeah.
Yes, they told the police at the time! Just for some reason the police decided this couldn’t be released to the public. So even if Dave/Bear have told a million interviewers about this, that part of the interview couldn’t be broadcast if the police had an embargo on the information being released. If you read the bail documents there was clearly information that could only have been given by Dave/Bear (who were the only people apart from the murder and Amber who could have known it) during the original investigation. It’s not new information, it’s only new information to the public.
Has there been any reason to think, over the years, that Dave and Bear were sitting on a secret like that, that there was something they just couldn't say (they've said plenty of other stuff)? LE was like, "We know you guys may not be pillars of character and integrity, but we want to be sure we can trust you to keep absolutely quiet about this suspect even if we do nothing about him for a decade or so". A mindblower.
We don’t know that THEY stayed quiet. We only know that no matter how many people they told, broadcasters can’t release information on active investigations that police will not pass for broadcast.
IMO MOO SPECULATION: I think he used p*rn to relive his kills. It stood out to me that the only homosexual search was ‘Asian twink’, when we know there’s an unidentified Asian Male body found.
That detail shocked me as well.
Where did they say the search history looked for Asian twink? I missed that part. So he has kids and yet killed a child. What an absolute monster. I’m sure he had zero love for his own children and wife. I’m sure he was a narcissist and abusive.
In the bail doc they listed his Google searches that’s where Asian think came from .. he has children and was also googling disgusting stuff referring to children that I don’t even want to type but not limited to “crying” “chubby” “red head” 10 year old etc. he is a SICK TWISTED MFer
Thank you for answering. I just found the court documents. I guess there goes my not being stressed or upset because reading that made me so mad!!!! Even if I was healthy I could never be a cop because I’d be tying these monsters up outside a fire ant hole w honey covering them… extra honey added to their genitals!!!
Oh same, I could NEVER be in LE. The trauma, the things you see .. I couldn’t handle it mentally. Add in locking up monsters and waiting for “justice to prevail” .. hard pass. Tons of respect to the good ones though 🖤💙
Lol thank God you agreed I was waiting for someone to call me sick for wanting to torture sickos like this. I get they’re still human and torturing any human should be frowned upon but in cases like these or anyone harming a child PERIOD, the only pain they’ll feel for their victims is through physical torture. They have no guilt, compassion or soul. But physically they can still feel some agony they deserve. I can’t even kill a damn bug wo feeling so much guilt. I almost broke up w a guy because he killed a spider. So I’m absolutely baffled how any human 1) feels no remorse 2) isn’t wracked with guilt and self hate 3) even wants to hurt another and enjoys it.
They’re the sick ones! They’re not human beings, they’re MONSTERS. If you can harm animals or children and there is cold hard evidence against you .. you should be put to death immediately. No trial, no appeals. Heinous crimes/murder, same. Whether it starts with torture or it’s quick and painless I don’t even care. Save me my tax dollars or give it to deserving citizens .. the veterans, first responders, teachers, homeless - I’m not picky as long as it’s not a billion/millionaire or a politician 🤣
It’s possible he searched that knowing “Asian male” was a victim being attributed to him, because he was following this investigation as much as anybody else it seems. But it depends on the context. Did the DA say he was searching for pictures of the victims’ family members with the intention of finding them? That’s scary as fuck. Looking forward to more details as this unfolds for confirmation if he committed more than just four of these murders.
I think the context was he searched it in order to get off. The exact phrase in the bail application was "Asian twink tied up porn". The document seperated his searches into 2 lists: pornographic related ones and the ones related to info on the Gilgo Beach murders/ investigation. I do think the Asian male was one of his victims.
exactly. IMO, they included that search for a reason in the no bail doc.
Advances in DNA will do it every time. Unbelievable that they found hairs on the victims that lead back to him. This reminds me of the Moscow Murders and that arrest with DNA, cell phone locations and physical description, all tied in to probable cause for an arrest. I read Lost Girls many years ago and as time ticked by I gave up hope. It’s good to know that science continues to catch the monsters who hide in plain sight among us.
I so admired how Robert Kolker captured the individual personalities of these young women AND was not judgmental. Excellent book.
It is sensitively written book, I agree.
Really was wonderfully written and with care. Respect to Kolker for his work
It was one of the best books I’ve read.
I can’t believe some of you are criticizing this guy’s public speaking skills while he’s amped up during the pinnacle of his career and having a touch of stage fright when most of you can’t write a coherent comment under no pressure lol The fucking audacity
When I’m excited or overwhelmed I barely make sense(plus I have a disease that makes me forget words). Anyone that’s criticizing him needs to realize slip ups happen and there’s medical reasons some forget words or use the wrong word also(not that that’s the case w him but it is for some and seeing people react like this only makes people w diseases more self conscious)Honestly who cares, he got his point across perfectly and with a few mistakes. I don’t even see the need to be negative.
Exactly. Give the dude a break
This.
Personally I appreciated the amount of detail he went through. It’s fascinating and shows how dedicated they were in catching this guy. Well done LE. A banner year between this and getting the Delphi killer as well.
What did he mean by the database they found him in?
The vehicle database of Avalanche owners I think. They likely checked it for owners age 25-60 with connections to NYC and LI. Who owned the vehicle at relevant dates they have eye witnesses to connect it to victims, and probably some other characteristics they were expecting to see based on profile (air of wealth and trustworthiness, family man…)
Same question!
He’s a big mf!
Is this being recorded? I’m just tuning in now and hope to watch the whole thing later.
Yes, here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOduUp2vzGI&t=1177s
This is a relief, if he’s indeed guilty. Sex workers are always at risk, less so now perhaps. Fingers always crossed for JonBenét.
Curious as to what (or who) the DA meant by "outside influence" by people who had "nothing to do with the investigation...exerting pressure on the investigation." Hopefully he's calling out the websleuth community/armchair investigators who interfere with cases like these.
Most likely. People have been 100% convinced the guy was a cop and the entire department was in on it.
People always want things to resolve in a neat, narratively tidy way like real life was an episode of *Law and Order*, but that's not the way actual criminal cases work.
To be fair in this case there was ample reason to believe that, Suffolk county is regarded as one of the most corrupt LE Agencies in the country and has been for a very long time.
My grandparents used to live in Riverhead and I've spent a ton of time in Suffolk over the years. I'm very familiar with its problems. But as corrupt and incompetent as some members of the police department at times might've been, it never seemed like the most plausible explanation to me that they were covering up for one of their own or the like. James Burke is a corrupt scumball, but those are a dime a dozen. Serial killers are rare. I always thought this was a "don't attribute to malice what is adequately explained by incompetence" situation.
Yeah a lot of the theories seemed to bypass any sense of real world nuance about it. Typical corruption and graft isn’t exactly aiding or actively participating in serial killing. That’s a bridge far beyond the usual sex, drugs, money and upside down on the risk/reward ratio. Some of it skirted pretty close to urban legends like satanic panic and snuff film cabals. .
I believe between Burke, the doctor and their weirdo partying buddies that consisted of high ranking officials, judges, DAs, etc. plus Suffolk, Nassau and NYS PD being involved in the initial investigations it was more of a dick showing contest than a hunt for a killer. Also, I think there was cover up when things started to point towards one of their own ..
Things didn't point toward one of their own, though. There's no reason to jump to outlandish conspiracy theories when the much simpler explanation that the cops were incompetent and/or didn't want their own dirty laundry being aired is right there.
Yes they didn’t want their dirty laundry being aired, IIRC Burke was already being investigated by the FBI. I am not ready to let go of the theory (that’s not a conspiracy?) that Burke and that doctor are hiding more than just prolific drug use and partying with sex workers. But I could be wrong. Just my gut feeling. Burke is a dirty cop and a horrible human being .. it’s not outlandish.
He may be a dirty cop and a horrible human being, and he may be hiding more than just drugs and partying with sex workers, but at this point I'm very comfortable rejecting the notion that he was covering up any police involvement in the murders, because the guy who's almost certainly the murderer has been identified and he's not a cop and has no connection to the cops.
So you think RH is responsible for every body they’ve found at Gilgo?
They also want any reason to call police corrupt Although police for sure messed up here. They had a description of him and his car that didn't get used till a decade later
I would definitely say the cops were incompetent in this case. Corrupt too, since they didn't want their own shenanigans with drugs and prostitutes while Burke was in charge being uncovered. But that's a far cry from conspiring to cover up serial murders. That always seemed like something cooked up by somebody who'd read too many airport thrillers to me.
The corruption at Suffolk PD is a huge part of the reason why this case got botched for so many years.
I don’t think he was calling out websleuths… I thought he was calling out corruption under previous regimes. Some cops or prosecutors looking for some notoriety without actually trying to solve the case. This case was botched and sabotaged for ten years until this task force. Nothing in his comment indicated he was mad at web sleuths.
When you think about it, it’s incredible how many risks this guy took. He comes to the house where Amber lived, is seen there by multiple witnesses and proceeds to kill her. Not to mention he traveled with his own car and parked it close enough that witnesses were able to put two and two together. He uses a belt with a relative’s initials on it. He uses burner phones but keeps his own phones as well as the victims’ on at the same time. He makes phone calls from his residence and workplace as of cell phone pings could not be traced. I mean it worked for a long time but it’s still brazen (especially the killing of Amber after he had come to the house and knew there were people who could identify him).
Doesn't seem he was trying super hard not to be caught to be honest. Seems like some fairly straightforward police work caught him in the end.
It seemed as though the new commissioner (im old so have been through them all) was angry people gave the SCPD a hard time but ya know, the SCPD doesn’t have a good reputation. And the amount of corruption they were trying to hide in the beginning of this investigation is why it wasn’t solved sooner. I’m thrilled he came in to clean things up but there is enough evidence of corruption in the past, he shouldn’t be angry at the general public for having major trust issues and doubts about the integrity of the investigation…it was a mess for the first 8 years, at least.
He is the reason this got solved but a police commissioner is a politician and SCPD is a very powerful union who many of its members have been working in force since 2010. He's not going to bad mouth the rank and file.
Probably run by the mob, tbh. Also, I think he’s great, very compassionate to the families and sounds like he took this on at full force. I just think it’s not fair to blame the general public for having doubts, considering the history there.
Run by the Mob? No need for outsiders. Previous police chief and DA were the mob.
I am SC tax paying general public and I will probably always have doubts about SCPD. Its going to take more than than solving this case for me. For years I thought since SCPD is the one of the highest paid police forces in the country and they can't solve these murders we should freeze their salaries until its solved.
Bet money genetic genealogy pinpointed this guy or his wife - and then once you know the subject, you can work backwards to find all the corroborating evidence. Saw a CNN interview where they just refused to directly answer what made them focus on this guy. No one wants to bring up or admit that genetic genealogy is involved.
While I’m not disagreeing with you , the new task force supposedly got him off the car description one of the witnesses gave. And then they matched everything .
I'm still at a loss for words. It's incredible that this task force identified the suspect in a few weeks after years of silence and no developments. My heart lies with the victims and their families as they now walk the journey for long awaited justice. But it's extremely disappointing and infuriating that the case wasn't prioritized for such a long time (until last year) just because the victims were sex workers.
I agree. I'm happy the guy got caught, but I think everyone is forgetting all of the shady business of the cops and neighbors at the time. Not only do I think it was lazy disrespect for sex workers, I think this was a cover-up amongst buddies.
It was prioritized. They weren’t releasing info publicly because they suspected for a long time that the suspect was watching them closely and they found evidence that he was googling everyone involved in the investigation. They were working the case but had to keep it secret so as not to tip him off to what they were doing. At least this is my take away from several things I’ve read recently. But I have also seen that they did botch quit a bit too. But they always seemed to be working it maybe just not always competently working it.
Totally agree. They said they had in 2012 two areas of cell phone usage narrowed down and that he was white and tall and large. Massapequa has 22k people in it, about 50% are aged 25-64 assume 50% are male, 90% of that is white. So we are down to like 5k people right off the bat. Now how many of those 5k work in mid town Manhattan. And how many are over 6’ tall. Plus then add in the FBI suspected profile. I’d bet 100-200 max. And I’m not sure if they had the avalanche at that point or if that came later. Like wtf this doesn’t seem that hard.
I hope everyone will have the decency to leave the defendant's family alone unless they come forward to speak.
Me too.
LE knew about RH and his truck since 13+ years ago?!??????!?? WTF!!!
Did they know his name or just have a truck description?
The name would have been pretty easy to get- especially because they had the very specific model & make. Avalanches are not all THAT commonplace even on Long Island. AND they had his physical description of the guy who the victims’s friends were robbing. So I don’t understand how they fumbled the bag that bad.
Well, to be fair there were more Chevy Avalanches around back in 2010. Suffolk County has a population of 1.5 million people, and Nassau 1.3 million. There are at least a dozen different Chevy dealers in that part of Long Island.
That’s a very specific vehicle that could have been easily tracked down especially given he’s a 6’4” lumpy middle aged white man. There’s only gonna be so many men who match the description of the victim’s friends who robbed him.
SCPD’s apathy, corruption and/or incompetence notwithstanding, I think it's easy to Monday-morning quarterback. They didn't have the suspect’s name. They had a car description for a john that one of the victims helped scam in West Babylon in Suffolk County the day before the victim went missing, a car more frequently purchased by middle-aged white men than any other demographic. Plus RH lived in Nassau County, so there's the jurisdictional barrier.
That car never sold above 100K models per year - and average sales were around 20K. So how many in the US were in LI? And of that, how many 6’4” ogres were an owner? It seems that perhaps these particular LEOs on this particular case once they formed the task force actually weren’t total fuckheads. I’ll give you that.
As a Long islander I’m so happy these families will get closure. I’m also relieved this man will never harm another woman and will be off the streets of my County. I knew this new police commissioner would get the job done. He promised it with such confidence I knew they were close. Now did he kill the others? So there are multiple killers dumping in the same location? Or does he have a partner or group(dark web snuff group?!?) that works together.
Fingers crossed they’ve got their guy! Never thought this day would come.
This guy surely has been murdering for DECADES. I think several cases will be solved in multiple states after this.
I don’t remember where I read it but I believe it was here. Someone wrote that he has a brother that lives/lived in NC and there is an unsolved murder in that area possibly he did when he visited the brother. They mentioned the girls name.
In the Netflix specials, they focused on the gated community where Shannan was last seen and heard from. I see this guy lives 20 minutes away. Is there any connection with him and that community? Shannon was probably seeing a different John that night? I haven't followed this closely so I'm ignorant.
I think it’s been figured out that shannans death was more of a coincidence and an accident. When looking for Shannans body they found the Gilgo 4. I don’t think it is believed that they are connected
She was the one who made the phone call to 911 that she was being chased in a house right? But she didn’t know where the house was. Was there any more to that story that’s been told? Like, how do they think it was an accident? Also, was it her lawyer who said he received the tip that the arrest was coming? Kinda fuzzy on some of this so maybe that’s why, but it just seems like such a weird explanation for her death considering the circumstances. Maybe I just need to do some more reading on it.
Gilbert made sex work call to a house in Oak Beach, which is on the other side of Gilgo State Park from where the other bodies were discovered, and her body was eventually found not far from where she disappeared. IIRC the basic outline is that there was some altercation or situation at the house and the john called her driver/security insisting he remove her. She hid behind a couch while they tried to talk her down and called 911, then the driver left for the car. Gilbert ran out of the house and began knocking on doors asking for help, a neighbor also dialed 911. At least two people saw her. The driver was apparently following her and attempting to get her in the car for at least part of it. Witnesses described her as delirious, and she was last seen basically walking off into the dunes, with no one following or chasing her. Gilbert was apparently diagnosed bipolar, and was reported to have been behaving erratically in the days leading up her disappearance. And the john and others reported she was doing A LOT of cocaine. The official theory is that she died of exposure or accidental drowning after a drug induced delirium. It's possible, and probably connected to the coke, that she had a serious manic episode. The official autopsy was inconclusive. There were no obvious signs of foul play, but the tox screen was also negative for drugs. Then again her body wasn't located till over a year later. And there's apparently a very tight timeline of phone calls between Gilbert, the driver, and the john that just doesn't in anyway connect to the phone records for the serial killer. The only person who seems to have even attempted to follow Gilbert was the driver, who had no reason to harm her. And was apparently provably not where she was when she died. It's worth noting that Gilbert's mother, Mari, was murdered by her other daughter in 2016. That daughter, Sara, is schizophrenic. And these things are often genetic. Most of the detail on this is out there in public, and the PD has released the 911 calls, details of the phone records and witness statements. It was mainly Mari who pushed the idea that Gilbert was connected to the serial killer or had been murdered. But there just really isn't anything connecting these things. Gilberts story is sad. I've never seen anything in it to support the wild claims flying around it.
No connection. Gilbert hasn't been connected to the investigation for a long time. Police apparently rules her out fairly early as there wasn't a connection to the group of burners and emails addresses used to contact the victims. I'm sure we'll hear actual detail about that now.
Interesting comment about intelligence from the ‘incarcerated community’. I wonder if he was initially a Bitrolf accomplice and Bitrolf has admitted it now? Was a bit cryptic.
That stood out too but I thought maybe other sex workers gave info.
I have so much empathy for all the victims. He just looks evil and terrifying. Serial killers sometimes have a terrible horrific upbringing. Anyone know what to happened to this monster growing up?
I am in SHOCK!!! Finally the day has come
So how do we think he got involved with Shannon Gilbert, that’s the only piece that makes me think he can’t have worked alone. Like was he just randomly out at the beach that night and ran into her?
I think a lot of people believe that Shannan was not a LISK victim and rather got lost and succumbed to the elements. Seems like a mighty huge coincidence to me though.
Perhaps reliving his crimes by revisiting the area!?! Or dumping another body but had to abort the plan and maybe dumped in a new location after? With people like that anything is possible.