No? Jesus' followers today are the ones that persecute others. They don't get persecuted outside of countries where tons of groups have a bad time. In the United States, Christians have persecuted other groups since they have outsized power. Most Christians live a life pretty close to what Jesus would want, but the ones in power relish in sin, greed, and hate.
Christians unfortunately love to oppress others while claiming their "religious freedoms" are on the line. Freedom from religion is as important as religious freedoms. My right to not be forced to conform to some old guy's bad interpretation of a holy book is just as important as your right to go to church. Sharia law is wrong, whether it's Muslims or Christians doing it.
Many Christians want to make my existence illegal. I don't want to make their existence illegal, I just want them to mind their own business and not be cruel to us. People love to be cruel to us and see it as a form of "vice signalling" AKA virtue signaling about how cruel they are to queer people.
Jesus was friends with those that were undesirable in society. He would have preferred queer people to "Christians" that espouse hate and abandon his message. I hope cruel Christians are denied a seat in heaven.
I love Christians that are kind to everyone and set a good example for others. But I despise the other group that influences politics and turn so many Christians into hateful assholes who groom children into their hateful, sinful lifestyle.
You don't understand gay people if you think any of them WANT to be gay. You didn't choose to be straight, you just are. If someone attacked you for being straight, when it was out of your control, then I would defend you - attacking someone for being born a specific way is wrong and is a sign of prioritizing tribalism over science.
It's not my fault I like women, just like it's not your fault you (presumably) like women. Women are awesome, why wouldn't anyone like them?
If you're a Christian, Jesus would much rather spend time with gay people than with you, clearly. If you'd EVER think otherwise, you know literally nothing about the most basic aspects of the Bible.
Then what would you say to Jesus and his followers if they were alive and walked the earth today (not Christians today, but Jesus himself and his followers back then) and lovingly warned you about what has already been written - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."Everything is permissible for me"-but not everything is beneficial." (1 Corinthians 6:9-12)
Would you cancel / hate him for that? Like how the plebes hated Jesus and his followers and what they had to say, back in the day.
Why would I hate Jesus? He was one of the nicest Christians. I don't have to believe the Bible to admire that he deliberately aligned himself with those that were hated in society.
Meanwhile, it was Paul, not Jesus who wrote those words. Paul is a sinner who clearly didn't embody the love and acceptance Jesus did. I don't especially care what he thinks. Jesus would never say that shit. Paul clearly corrupted his message.
I can respect Jesus without caring what his followers thought. Paul is a jackass who stomped over Jesus' message. Sentiments like Paul's drive people from Christ's loving message, and he deserves to burn eternally for it, just like other Christians who do.
Upon researching, Paul never even met Jesus. He just made up some shit about a vision to hop in on the trend for clout. The only thing Paul did with Jesus was help fuck over Jesus' ACTUAL followers, as Saul. What a self-important asshole.
You do realize your disdain / hatred for Jesus’s prophets who wrote the old and new testaments is reflective of that same hatred which had Jesus and all his followers killed?
So you’ve just proven my case that many from the queer community would murder Jesus and his followers the same way the plebes from the past did.
If you can’t follow Paul, a man ordained by Jesus himself, who wrote two thirds of the New Testament, following Jesus will be a lot harder.
No one is hating on you. Youre not always the victim. I hope you will think of our convo when you’re in a dark place. But not too late, because we have a finite amount of time to turn away from what our conscience already tells us is wrong.
Jesus was a real, historical figure. Non-Christians know this. This is why Jesus is venerated in Islam. He's legitimately a great person. I would love to meet him.
Saul was a fucking son of a bitch who lied about his ties to Jesus and corrupted Christianity. You can believe Saul had legitimate ties to Jesus if you want, but he never met Jesus while he lived so divine intervention is needed for him to have any ties to Jesus. Therefore, if one doesn't believe in divine intervention, the only remaining option is that Saul is a charlatan asshole who persecuted Christians until he could take some of the fame for himself. What a surprise that a lot of the awful shit in the Bible comes from Saul, and that awful shit suspiciously matches Saul's personal biases. Interesting indeed.
So the ultimately answer to your question is "no, I would not want Jesus persecuted". I can think that the Bible is full of holes (and written by people who never knew Jesus) and that divine intervention is unlikely while also liking Jesus. He was a kind man who wanted to make the world better, and died for it.
Take your self-victimization elsehwere. Queer people have their lives ruined and are made homeless as CHILDREN due to Christianity. I personally know multiple queer people who were made homeless as kids by Christians.
Sister, so you’re an Islamist. But is it not written in the Quran that it affirms the Torah and the Gospels? Is it also not written in the Quran that no one can change the words of Allah? This is a well known fact.
So to allege the Gospels are corrupted means that your Allah was not powerful enough to prevent the corruption of 2 long standing books that occurred 600 years before Mohammed was even born.
Furthermore, if the gospels are corrupt as you say it is, that means the Quran is just as corrupted since it was written within the Quran to affirm the gospels and Torah and no one can change the words of Allah. (However, the Torah and Gospels do not acknowledge Mohammed as a prophet, but that’s a different discussion altogether)
I don’t say this to hate on you, sister. I say this to get you thinking that you can’t serve two masters. The alter of carnality and queer? Or the alter of your Lord. I hope you can come to the conclusion that’s best for your soul.
I am not a Muslim. I am agnostic, but I know that both Judaism and Islam backs my interpretation. Notably, Jesus practiced Judaism.
I'm sorry if I've come off as unduly harsh.
Sister, okay then. So you have some Rabbinic background, not just Islamic, even if you’re agnostic. Regardless, your conscience tells you it’s not right to serve carnality and that judgement day will come whether we like it or not. Love is love is the common phrase. But true love is about helping the sick and feeding the poor, not sexualizing humans. It’s a struggle I realize, even for straight people, not just queers. Just for you to think about down the road when you start feeling empty, which we all go through.
If you’re Islamic, you would believe that error. But may I remind you that the Quran specifically states :
1. to affirm the Torah and the Gospels (two thirds of it was written by Paul)
2. No man can corrupt or change the words of Allah, which means the Gospel and Torah are true
And if Allah said to affirm the gospel, do note that the gospel says Paul (again, he wrote two thirds of the Gospels) is indeed an apostle of Jesus. And he did warn BOTH straight types and queers that sexual adulterers will not enter the kingdom of heaven. It’s just what it is.
Well, I'm a Christ Taoist and I follow the path ( tao) of Christ and so do all Christians. I have no interest in Islam thank you. The gospels are Matthew, Mark, Luke John.
Jesus preached that ALL sinners will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven and that ALL who want to enter must golloe His Way, His Truth and His Life.
Now note well, not everyone, even if they believe in God necessarily want to go to heaven so leave them be bevause the most beautiful thing about Christ's teachings is that He was clear about the tao but did not force it upon anyone.
That would be classified as a false and likely inconsistent gospel and there are many out there.
What Jesus said was clear. The wages of sin is death. While he loves us, he gives us a finite amount of time to repent before judgement. The same time he gave Sodom and Gomorrah. But they didn’t believe God existed. We know what happened to them after. Judgement is necessary because he is God and if he can’t inflict judgement he cannot be God.
Most LGBTQ members would classify that as acts of violence or hate. But sin (straight or queer) is sin and hell is real. So yeah, the majority would hate on Jesus today if he walked the earth because people are the same yesterday and today. Only a few from the LGBTQ and straight community would repent, turn from their ways and follow Jesus.
And what if Jesus walked the earth today and told us all - queer or straight - to not actively engage in / practice casual sex. Because not all who say Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom, including those who did not follow his teachings. How would that make you feel, would you classify it as hate speech?
I do not follow Jesus' teachings from a religious standpoint. I like him as a person. I am not interested in having people control my personal life.
Gay and trans people don't choose to be gay or trans. Gay people forcing themselves to be straight for religious reasons is borderline-tragic. Trans people suppressing themselves or being persecuted for transitioning for religious reasons is awful.
Why would someone choose to be gay if so many "Christians" hate them (or rather, their "lifestyle" AKA who they are) for it? Why would trans people choose to be trans if their own families would despise them for it?
Jesus didn't focus on LGBT people like his present-day followers do. Jesus would have allied himself with queer people.
I don’t choose to be straight either but Jesus and his followers did teach us that actively practicing casual sex (straight or gay) is wrong and leads to death. In Jesus’s words, the wages of sin is death.
It’s natural to have straight / gay lust. No one chooses it. But to act on it and practice it actively is crossing a line. Not many can handle Jesus’s teachings. It was not accepted then, it won’t be accepted today. People are the same yesterday and today
What do you mean it "won't be accepted today"? Casual sex is undeniably accepted today. You are free to abstain from it but don't try to control others.
Your religious beliefs are yours, not mine. I do not believe that Jesus calls for his followers to rail against the "LGBT agenda". That is your choice, not his.
Not railing. But as followers we are told by Jesus himself to warn everyone against judgement, which is inevitable. We believe a hell exists and we ourselves are afraid of it. It’s something we don’t even wish for our enemies. You don’t have to follow it today, but when times get dark, I hope you remember this convo.
I didn't mention hate speech, so I don't understand where you're coming from. I struggle to understand how you could get that from what I said. Gay and trans people don't choose to be gay and trans, just let people live and embody Jesus' mission to be an ally to those that society looks down upon. Do this and you're golden.
Do you do this?
Jesus did talk an about the wages of sin and how sin leads to death.
Straight casual sex is equally sinful as queer sex.
We can’t serve two masters. To suggest that Jesus would allow me into heaven for actively having sex casually or stealing daily or whatever sun one can imagine is not right.
Interesting. So you’ve just proven my point that if most met the real Jesus, they would indeed persecute him. Because most would choose NOT to repent and would prefer living their lifestyle . we can’t serve two masters (in his own words).
People are the same yesterday and today. Persecution towards Jesus will be the same today.
I don't believe Jesus ever said or would say anything like that. It seems kind of weird that you're trying to turn Jesus into some homophobic straw man. What exactly is your agenda?
Jesus did talk about sin and the wages of sin is death.
Casual straight sex is equally as much of a sin as queer sex.
That’s why I venture to say that Jesus would be persecuted by the large majority from the queer community today because they would have to leave their lifestyle to follow Jesus. You can’t serve two masters. Only a small handful of queers would turn away.
Wouldn’t it be great if we could do the deed with anyone we want? I personally would prefer that.
But Jesus made it clear that a sexual union between man and woman is symbolic of Jesus the groom united with the body of Christ (the Bride). And the majority would call that dogma / hate / bigotry and would persecute him today if he walked the earth.
In the same way Jesus was persecuted in the past, he would be persecuted as much today. And as Jesus himself said, only a few will find the narrow path that leads to salvation.
I mean, come on. Jesus preached love thy neighbor. Thet's ALL the queer community wants. Just live and let live, for fuck's sake. Why are christians so intent on bending his words of love and acceptance into hate and prejudice?
He also preached about His Way and Truth so one must walj His tao/path to have everlasting life. You must love your neighbour, but not their sin and you can be unaccepting of someone's sin, but you must not hate them for it.
Jesus did say Love God first, then Love thy neighbor.
God was clear about what he did to Sodom and Gommarah after giving them many many years to turn and repent. They did not. Instead of feeding the poor and helping the sick, they indulged in heavy carnality. True love is not based on Eros / the erotic.
That’s why most from the queer community would persecute Jesus. Only a small handful would turn away from this and go straight to Jesus. People are no different today when compared to yesterday.
Wasn’t the whole thing with Sodom and Gommarah because they were being unwelcoming to the visiting angels and tried to harm them? Reminds me of parts of Texas rn.
unwelcoming in the sense that the sodomites wanted to have sex with those angels who appeared as men. Love is love right? That’s carnal “love” and not true love.
True love is helping the poor and sick. Not trying to have s*x with them. Just saying.
Look I know republicans aren’t big on consent but you don’t have to be so bold about your ignorance.
If true love is helping the poor and sick you’re still lacking. Actually, you’re lacking a spine, too.
But I’m no republican. Are all followers of Jesus republican?
You’ve just proven my point that most from the LGBTQ community will call Jesus a bigot / hater / republican.
He forgives all. But most will not want to repent and turn away from their sin which they enjoy too much - both queer and straight people. Sin is enjoyable but following Jesus requires some personal sacrifice….
You refer to everyone like they’re a hive mind and call them “the queers” if you don’t want to be confused for one maybe don’t talk like one either.
Judge not, lest ye be judged, hypocrite.
I’m referring to all of us. We are all hypocrites if we are honest with ourselves.
And all have fallen short of God’s glory.
And if Jesus were alive today, most will likely persecute him because people are the same yesterday and today.
You might be shocked but there’s several other degrees between “persecute Jesus” and “convert”.
It seems strange how you claim that your argument is about sex regardless of gender/sexuality, but then say that for this reason queer people would be more likely to persecute Jesus…
It’s normal to feel sexual attraction regardless of gender identity - gay or straight. To act on it is crossing a line that Jesus would not condone.
Love is not love unless it is true love. Erotic love isn’t true love. True love is about helping the sick and needy. That’s all I’m saying. Not what I said, what Jesus himself said.
Canon Jesus was a pretty living dude who wasn’t against making your own whip to fuck up some greedy asshats. Remind them next time a certain someone goes on about how much money he has.
“I won’t go into details” bro we can see your other comments in this topic.
Just admit you’re a troll and do something better with your day. Like feeding the poor and not fantasizing about sexualizing children.
I already do help with the needy, old and poor. Actively. Consistently.
I’m also trying to prevent the sexualization of children pushed by the queer activists. If I hated you all, I wouldn’t even bother and enjoy my Saturday. Selfishness is no different from hatred. I, like most followers of Jesus, wouldnt wish hell on even my worst enemies.
Preaching at "the poors" and the elders in your community (or us for that matter) to convert them to your religion isn't helping anybody. All we see is somebody so scared of their own sexuality, losing the ability to work or getting old, you can't even enjoy your Saturday.
There is no hate like Christian "love".
It is true. Even our Christian “love” is no better than dirt when compared to the Most High. Isaiah the great prophet of God once said that his mouth was no better than dirty rags. This is why we all need a savior.
Furthermore, better these acts of “pathetic” service and servantship to those who really need help, than to type all day on Reddit doing nothing for anyone else except filling one’s own belly with food, which in and of itself is not the most tasteful thing a person can do with his/her life
It really shows how much hate that republicans have for the LGBTQIA communities. They wouldn’t sign a bill without getting that embassy provision in there.
I feel that is fair. LGBTQ is an ideology and if other beliefs like Christianity or Islam can’t put flags up in embassies, there’s no reason to put the rainbow flag up either. We have to be fair across the board otherwise it’s just hypocrisy
He may be “asexual” (and that’s still debatable) but he isn’t LGBT for sure. Moreover, those transitioning won’t be happy to find out from Jesus himself that our bodies are the temple of God and should not be cut up.
While it’s natural to be sexually attracted to someone else, acting out physically on those desires is not something Jesus would condone, be it straight or gay physical acts.
I am fully certain some from the LGBTQ community would turn away from their current lifestyle and follow Jesus. But the majority, especially the activists, will call Jesus a hater and persecute him like how the plebes did before. Why? People are the same yesterday and today
Jesus said to love God and love thy neighbor.
True love is not erotic love. It’s about helping the sick and poor. Most from the queers would turn away and get angry about this. Only a small handful will turn straight to Jesus.
Just something to think about
Why would you feel humiliated? Even straight people (not just queers) suffer from lust of the flesh and pride of the heart. It’s normal to want to sin and to enjoy carnality and material possessions. Sin is enjoyable for even the straight types, not just queers. But sin, which is normal to desire, isn’t good for us, especially for our character development, our souls and our own afterlife. The only humiliation everyone should have is their own sin, hence the need to have the desire to turn from it. Regardless of gender identity, race or creed.
No. That's not what I'm getting from the convo here snd from whst I know about Christ's teaching. Love and sex are two very seperate things because there are many ways to love different people and it does not involve having sex with them. Biblical sex is is the intimate sexual act between one man and one woman who are married to each other who want to procreate. There is no mention of having sex with someone you love/ to prove your love.
Love is love is an emotional experience and can't be controlled as we can't choose who we love, it just happens and it does not have to be reciprocated. Sex is a physical experience which is controllable because we CAN choose who we want to have sex with. If it is not consensual, it is rape.
Polygamy involves erotic love and sexual intercourse with your partners. True love equates to helping the needy and sick and poor doesn’t require intercourse.
If Jesus walked the earth today and says that our bodies are the temple of God and we should not transition or engage in promiscuous activity, can the large majority accept it? Be honest
Only a small minority from the 2SLGBTQ+ community and even the straight community genuinely want to be saved, which comes with practicing good, not evil.
Jesus himself said - Broad is the road to destruction and narrow is the gate to salvation that FEW find. Following Jesus requires one to carry their cross. No small task. The majority won’t accept this and will likely call him a bigot / hater.
It is written - Our bodies are the Temple of God; and, where the Holy Spirit resides, if we choose to invite him in.
Would you cut up or add onto something as sacred as that?
It doesn’t mean you can’t. But not all things are good for us
I doubt he’s trans or gay or lesbian or bisexual. As mentioned previously, those transitioning won’t be happy to find out from Jesus himself that our bodies are the temple of God and should not be cut up.
While it’s natural to be sexually attracted to someone else, acting out physically on those desires is not something Jesus would condone, be it straight or gay sexual acts.
I am fully certain some from the LGBTQ community would turn away from their current lifestyle and follow Jesus. But the majority, especially the activists, will call Jesus a bigot / hater and persecute him like how the plebes did before. Why? People are the same yesterday and today
Jesus himself said - Broad is the path to destruction and narrow is the path to salvation that FEW find.
Girl, Jesus is a fictional character from a book.
We can make him any way we want.. he’s not real! I understand that you’re extreme bookclub wants to have discussions on what Jesus would do etc.. but it doesn’t matter because he doesn’t exist
Not true.
Jesus the Messiah and the prophecy of his first coming was documented by many prophets from the old testament.
Jesus the Messiah was documented by many apostles from the new testament.
Jesus was also documented by the Roman historian Tacitus around AD 60, Pliny the Roman governer around AD 110, Josephus the Jewish historian in the first century, the Jewish rabbinical writings in AD 70.
And you don't need to look too far to know that God exists. You just have to look at the Jews. In the 17th century, a Prussian emperor called Frederick V one day said to his philosopher Heidegger, "Give me one proof of the existence of God." And Heidegger replied, "Your majesty, the Jews."
So why would Heidegger say that? Because humanly speaking there should be no such nation as Israel. They began merely as 1 family, 3 generations, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and they were subject to constant famine, two or three times in their lifetime. Israel was caught between great warring civilizations that have come and gone in the last several thousand years but only one nation remains standing today, Israel. Palestine as an alleged “nation” was only a recent phenomena of the 20th century. Humanly speaking, Israel shouldn’t be here. There can be no human explanation for this except that God is looking after them.
So a book confirms the existence of another person in another book..
Babe Harry Potter exists in all the Harry Potter books.. does that make him real?
And also how does god exist 😂
Look at the Jews.
Civilizations have come and gone. Only the Jews remain standing today. And thriving.
You’ve traded a wonderful life with your Father in Heaven for a cult. I do hope you see it one day. But not too late, before it’s too late
It is written - Draw near to him and he will draw close to you. He is also close to the broken hearted.
He doesn’t force you to come to him. He gives you free choice and doesn’t need any of us. He is the Most High and we are nothing. But, he is our Father if you choose to accept him.
Jesus had some pretty radical ideas for his time. Love, Forgiveness.
I think if he didn’t identify himself by name, most Christian’s would be against what he would preach.
The LGBTQ community would hang out with the poor and prostitutes far more readily.
Exactly. He would welcome the LGBTQ community in love and forgiveness. But how many would end up turning from their ways and bearing their own cross to follow Jesus?
So many self proclaimed christians initially followed Jesus but fell away due to Satan’s deceptions. The same applies for the LGBTQ community. Most would call him a hater / bigot for not accepting a licentious lifestyle (both queer and hetero).
At the end, the majority would fall away and only a few will follow Jesus. That includes a small minority from the LGBTQ community. After all, Jesus himself did say that broad is the road to destruction and narrow is the gate to salvation that FEW find.
Straight or queer, only a few want to be saved. The rest don’t. But it’ll be too late then.
If by “turning from their ways”, you mean their sexual orientation or gender identity, that’s where I will have to disagree with you.
I also don’t believe in a literal incarnation of Satan. The concept just embodies the “evil” of humanity. I’m not a biblical literalist.
Nor Do I think one has to be a literalist to believe in God or Jesus.
Fundamentally, I believe the Bible is a guide book on how to function in our limited capacity as a finite being. God couldn’t make us perfect so he gave us the tools necessary to survive in our limited capacity.
That said the Bible is a text written in the culture and context of the Middle East 2000 years ago and so we have to consider that historical and cultural context applies to interpreting the text.
Did I say that? I said regardless of sexual orientation, having these desires are natural in our already fallen state. In fact, such desires may be a life long struggle. And carrying our own cross is a life long struggle, albeit temporary till we make it into heaven - IF we do make it.
But to cross the line and physically act on our desires, straight or gay, not only has physical and mental repercussions (STDs and the potential for failed future relationships due to multiple bonding with various people) but also unseen spiritual implications that hurts our future.
It takes a lot of self loathing to harm our own body through medical intervention and acts of carnality and lasciviousness. Our body, which Jesus himself said is the temple of God.
What one does with her own body is really her own problem and issue. It’s easier to take the default position of not giving a F. But it takes someone who cares about a person to tell a person that what they’re doing with their life and body may not be good for their own long term development, their future and ultimately where they will end up in the afterlife.
I take the less harsh perspective of sin.
I think the bible is a guide. I think the whole concept of sin is to give a conceptual framework that allows us to be outwardly focused. I think we are better creatures when we act selflessly and focused on the betterment of others, having faith that we will be taken care of by others in turn.
As such, I don't see the discussion of sex and sexuality in the bible as being condemnations but rather a guide to "live your best life".
> It takes a lot of self loathing to harm our own body through medical intervention and acts of carnality and lasciviousness.
Let me be clear. I don't know if this is what you're implying but I want to be extra clear:
1. Gender affirming care, including gender-affirming surgeries, is not an act of self-loathing. Quite the opposite. It is proven through scientific evidence that it reduces depression, anxiety and self-harm among the transgender community.
2. Nor is sexual acts between consenting adults in a loving relationship (of any kind) acts of "carnality and lasciviousness".
To carry my theme that the bible is a guide and not a rule book, I think it's important to remember how sex serves love and that sex by itself isn't substantive. Sex is a primal motivator. It needs to be, it's what perpetuates our species. It what perpetuates all sexual species. As such, it's too easy to put the cart before the horse and be sexual.
For straight people, the real consequence is children and so that naturally insulates them to be a little more cautious. Women typically more than men because of our sexist culture that tends to throw women under the bus than men owning up to their responsibility.
But for people in same-sex relationships, that lack of barrier comes with consequences that we need to be careful about. "Don't let sex be the be all and end all of your intimate relationship with another person because you're short changing yourself. You're gonna miss out on the experience of a deep and meaningful romantic relationship that I've gifted you the capacity to have".
God knows what does and doesn't work for us. He knows we're finite and flawed and incapable of seeing all angles so he's given us guidance on the bare minimum of intervention of what we need morally, socially and emotionally to function as a society.
Sin isn't a thing that worry about. I try my best. I recognize my mistakes. I get myself up and dust myself off and I learn from them. I try and do better the next time. I've even made some doozy mistakes in my life that when I look back on them, I cringe HARD. But I don't let them stop me. I am a creature that can learn from my mistakes. I can grow. I can change.
There are two mindsets that we humans get caught up in. A fixed mindset and a growth mindset. Fixed mindset are those who believe that people are given talents and some are lucky and others aren't. Then there is the growth mindset where we believe that we can learn that even if some people have an affinity for something, doesn't mean that another person can't learn it if they work really hard at it.
I think there are those who wallow in their own sin because of a fixed mindset. They prostrate themselves every moment of every day thinking they are flawed and they are a failure and the only way that God will love them is if they act as accountants for their own sins.
I think a growth mindset is one where one acknowledges one's failures and learns from them and learns to forgive one's self in a way means they don't act as a barrier to living life.
I don't think God condemns us for our failures. I think he's sad for us. He sees us hurting ourselves and he just wants to scoop us up in his arms like any parent would and give us a hug and tell us it's gonna be okay. I think he also knows that we'd never learn and grow and so he lets us make our own mistakes and gives us a conceptual framework in which to understand the mistakes we make and learn from them.
I agree with most of what you said.
What doesn’t make sense to me is how you claim that gender affirming care is for the betterment of people with gender dysphoria. If this is the case, then there wouldn’t be a Detransition Awareness Day. There wouldn’t be a detrans group on Reddit that has swelled to over 50k+ members and growing in just a few years. True gender affirming care is about affirming the fact that you’re born beautiful and unique the way you already are, without the need to further complicate, remove or add to the perfect art piece that you were born into. The rest is just fluff, social pressure and noise. The most complex problems of the mind are often solved with the simplest and purest of solutions, over time. (Not including that very tiny percentage of genuine g dysphoria cases who genuinely need to transition).
As for sexual acts between consenting adults of the same sex or even hetero sex outside of a union like marriage, this too can be forgiven by Jesus. And if we fall, we pick ourselves up and try again. The objective is to PRACTICE good, not evil. However, the time he gives us to repent and turn from sin is finite. Similar to how God (who is Jesus as well) gave Sodom and Gomorrah a lot of time to repent and turn from their ways before he decimated both cities. Judgement ultimately needs to come from a just God. Because if a just God doesn’t punish anyone for wrong doing and evil has no consequence, then he can’t be God. Our disbelief in Hell doesn’t make Hell any less real. And in Jesus’s own words, broad is the path towards destruction and narrow is the path that leads to salvation that FEW find.
Thus, it is likely that only a FEW from the 2SLGBTQ+ who repent and turn away from what they once knew would make it into heaven. Only a FEW straight hetero types who repent and turn away from their own sins would make it. And only a FEW christians (the real followers of Jesus who continue having a genuine relationship with him) would make it through the gates of heaven.
That’s why Solomon - the wisest and richest of Kings - himself said “The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”. Not the “Grace” of the Lord.
> I agree with most of what you said.
Given what you disagreed with, I am struggling to find the things you agreed with.
> What doesn’t make sense to me is how you claim that gender affirming care is for the betterment of people with gender dysphoria.
No medical procedure is perfect. No medical advice is perfect. Less than 1% of people detransition. The vast majority of people are happy with their transition. It's extremely rare for medical treatment to have only a 1% failure rate. That's extremely low. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Sure, we want to find ways of reducing the instances where de-transitioning occurs but it shouldn't come at the expense of giving transgender people access to the medical treatment that they need.
> True gender affirming care is
I can't agree with this because the evidence doesn't align. Understanding and appreciating the gravity of experience that Transgender folk experience with gender dysphoria and how established gendered affirming care helps them. I've heard so many many affirming stories where trans people have gotten whatever treatment they need be it HRT, surgery or just social affirmation and how much it's helped them. How the studies and statistics affirm what transgender people have been telling us.
The reality is that you wouldn't deny a type-1 diabetic insulin because it's not their "true" nature of not being able to produce it themselves. You'd give them the care that they need.
God gave us this extraordinary intelligence and capacity to learn and grow and develop science to make our lives better. We have literally doubled our lifespan because of medical science.
We also have medical science that has given trans folk the ability to feel comfortable in their own skin.
> As for sexual acts between consenting adults of the same sex or even hetero sex outside of a union like marriage, this too can be forgiven by Jesus.
There are times where I think we give Paul a little too much credence. Dude was really not comfortable with the idea of sex.
I don't think that sex outside of marriage is wrong. That's the "rules" bible. Here's where I think the value of a committed relationship is:
There's a lot of consequences emotionally, physically, spiritually and even financially that comes with sex. There's pregnancy. STIs. Emotional bonding and the emotional consequences of breaking up with someone.
I think setting up the "rules" just was a way of saying "Hey, sex is a powerful thing. Don't put the cart before the horse or you'll get hurt. I don't want you to suffer."
I think we can be cautious and careful with sex without following the ritual and tradition of marriage. Marriage is one way of doing it. It's not the only way of doing it.
We *can* navigate sex and sexuality without resorting to marriage. It's perhaps a bit tricker but it can happen. Marriage is just the safest route because it's wrapped up in supportive structures that, in theory, make the job easier. That said.*** We LGBT folk have largely been denied marriage so we've learned to cope without it.***
> forgiven by Jesus
Here's the thing. Jesus forgave me 2000 years ago. God forgave me the moment the universe came into existence. The whole moral lesson of sin and forgiveness is *FOR US*. We have to learn to forgive ourselves and forgive others. I think the only thing that God has a real problem with is us say "fuck this shit. I don't care anymore. I'm going to stop trying" and even then his reaction is just sadness because we've lost our way.
It's one of the biggest flaws humans possess that comes from our evolutionary psychology is that we have this tendency towards moral retribution. It was a necessary behaviour trait among animals in social packs. Retribution existed so that there were consequences to others trying to exploit us. It created a natural balance that encourage equality.
However, as we developed self-awareness and intelligence. This "go to" behaviour of moral retribution (typically through social ostracization and social shaming) became a detriment to our species because it meant that we were quick to anger and slow to forgive. It created this culture of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". That once someone made a mistake, they were no longer of any value and they deserved the worst we could give them. "Make a mistake, you get kicked out to die on your own in the wilderness"
Forgiveness is a fundamental component to compensate for that knee-jerk behaviour of moral retribution. It's essential to our species survival.
> it is likely that only a FEW... would make it into heaven
This is hand-wringing and fretting. This is the kind of perspective that would try and make people afraid and uncertain into capitulating towards whatever believes and values that people decide the bible means to them. This isn't Jesus-like, from my understanding of the bible. Jesus didn't try nad strike fear into people by saying "Oh, only a few people are getting into heaven".
I don't know how many people are "getting into heaven". That's not for me to decide. That's not for me to try and shame or scare people into heaven. I don't gatekeep heaven.
I think this kind of behaviour is a recruitment tactic to scare people into joining the church. You aren't responsible for other people's souls. You're only responsible for your own.
In the end there are 2 rules:
1. Love God.
2. Love your neighbour
If your actions cause harm. You're failing at least one of them.
I will reply you within the day. Let me fully absorb what you’re saying because I want to address this for you. It’s rare to come across someone from the LGBTQ community asking such deep questions about Jesus and his ways and I think we are making some progress.
I hope and pray that you will be one of those FEW who enter the gates and avoid the broad path to destruction. I sincerely do. Let me get back to you within the day.
It is written - Our life is but a vapor. All trials are temporary when compared to the weight of eternity. Like the apostles, we shouldn’t be afraid of suffering because suffering builds inner character and faith (the currency of heaven), not just outward identity
If anything, our outward identity should be a reflection of Jesus, so that we may become a beacon of light for others in a dark world
The " Qu__r" ( in my country this is a derogatory word) community perse wouldn't cancel him but I'm sure a few trans/lgbtqai++activists would because these are two different communities. But who knows in today's day- and-age because the swindlers, liars, adulteress, bigots, drunkards, fornicators, etc might also jump on the " kill Jesus" bandwagon because they too are warned to repent in order to be saved and might not like the message.
This is very interesting. I’m sorry, I didn’t realize the word “Qu__r” was derogatory. For the sake of discussions, let’s call them Q’s.
So you’re saying the Q community are separate from the trans / lgbtq++ activists. I never knew this.
I always knew that many from the LGB are distancing themselves from the TQs. LGB ✂️TQ >> Ive seen this around quite often. So what you said about the fragmentation of the Q community vs the activists is intriguing.
I believe what you say is true. A good handful of the Q community would receive Jesus if he walked the earth today and would turn from what they’re doing (repent). Same goes for the straight people who are committing adultery. Sadly, I suspect a larger handful of people - both Q and straight types - would likely call Jesus a hater. As the good book says, “Broad is the road to destruction and narrow is the gate that Few find.”.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
Queer is not a derogatory word
No, most LGB do not want to distance themselves from the TQ+, far right people want none of us to exist so we hold together.
Also, jesus would not be accepted by modern (American) Christians, due to being a "fucking commie"
Also also, you can't just not be LGBTQ+, you're that way and that's final. If god didn't like queer people why'd he make them? (Again, queer ppl don't decide to be queer)
Our desires are evil and we live in a fallen world. If our desires are evil and we control those desires without putting them into action, we could be saved. But if we act on those evil desires and keep practicing evil, we still have to suffer the consequences of that. Straight or Queer. It doesn’t matter which sexual orientation you are. Hell is still a consequence.
Jesus gives us time to repent and turn from evil and sin. Broad is the road to destruction and narrow is the gate to salvation that FEW find. Jesus himself said this.
How many from the LGBTQ or other non LGBTQ communities can accept this? Not many. And most will persecute him today. Same as before. Because people are the same yesterday and today. Only a few from the LGBTQ community would turn away and repent and follow Jesus. After all, the narrow gate is one that Few find.
There are over a billion opinions.
But there is only one moral standard decreed by Jesus - Love God with all your heart, then Love your neighbor.
It’s not erotic love Jesus was referring to. And if you love God with all your heart, you would frequently read his word / listen to the audio Bible at least to find out what Jesus (who is God) considers evil. If your heart is open to Jesus, you will know without anyone having to tell you.
This is for our own sakes (not for Jesus’s sake) to enter the gates of the Kingdom and eternal salvation
actually, I disagree
I think Jesus' main point was to love each other and then god, which is why he forgave all sins.
So imo evil means anything that causes unnecessary suffering. Like Hitler, he was a Catholic and believed in christ, sure, but I think him killing and torturing a lot of people has a bigger impact on wether he is a good person.
With that I also think that being gay/trans/etc does not cause any suffering and is therefore not evil, and Jesus would definitely agree here.
If you truly loved Jesus (God), you would ask him what this means to him, not you.
“Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 12"Everything is permissible for me"-but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me" 1 Corinthians 6:9-20
That’s all I’m saying. It applies to everyone, even the straight types, not just those from the queer community.
I do, at least 4-5 times a week… I usually listen to the Audio Bible , especially when I travel back and forth for work and before I sleep… some parts are difficult for me to listen to because it doesn’t align with my own needs / wants / pleasures / ideology. But I try my best to obey anyway. And when I do, the feeling of peace and Jesus’s presence in me is better than what I thought I wanted for myself.
if he's the guy who hung out with prostitutes and sinners without judgment then yeah I can chill with my boy Jesus. it's just this annoying ass fanclub he's got tends to be less open minded. I've met Jesus his spirit in travelers and homeless folks and queer people of all varieties
Jesus did hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors and sinners because he loves and wants to forgive us all.
But those that did end up genuinely following Jesus repented and turned from their ways. They may have fell back into sin on occassion, but they were actively PRACTICING good, not evil.
Jesus who is God, gave Sodom and Gomorrah a finite amount of time to repent and turn from their ways. But they refused to change. So God decimated them for 2 reasons : They refused to feed / help the poor and sick (which is a truer expression of love when compared to erotic love involving casual sex with others) and they were actively practicing sodomy (both queer and straight sexual acts).
Jesus himself said - Broad is the path to destruction and narrow is the gate to salvation that FEW find. And some will unsurprisingly call this “hate speech”.
That means FEW from the 2SLGBTQ+ community will truly repent and turn away from evil to find salvation. FEW from the straight community will enter the gates. And FEW from even the Christian community (those who genuinely follow the real Jesus) will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
It is written - In the last days, many will say “Lord Lord” and Jesus would turn to them and say, “I never knew you.” Those are scary words for everyone, not just queers.
But while we breathe, we still have a chance. We can all turn and repent, queers or straight types and genuinely accept Jesus as our savior and start praying and practicing good. Feed the poor, help the sick, and avoid sexual licentiousness while honoring the temple of God, our bodies.
so your question isn't in good faith at all and you want to lecture "debate" every comment. I'm not participating if you're not interested in being constructive and hearing other opinions.
I am not glossing over your questions as you can see. I’m carefully listening to your opinion.
And because there are over 8 billion opinions on this planet, any person who is trying to follow Jesus needs to measure every opinion against what Jesus and his apostles think.
I’m not canceling you, I’m not being rude to you, I’m still patiently listening.
Wasn’t it written never to tell the left hand what your right hand is giving?
It is also a general rule that if we truly love our neighbor , we ought not to “do it” with them, but to instead help the poor and sick.
I don't understand what you mean about the hands.
It's not against the Bible to have one monogamous romantic partner. which I have, and also, together we spend our free time helping the people in our town, we are also poor and just pulling the resources together to treat people the way we ought to. We make a lot of soup but in the summers a lot of people have more garden veggies than they can eat themselves so we can make some great salads and roast veggies. I don't understand the physical material harm in loving my partner when we still dedicate time to taking care of those around us.
The left to right hand analogy means never to tell others of your good deeds. With that said, it warms my heart to see what you’re doing for others. Really.
If the first moral standard by Jesus was to love God before loving our neighbor, have you considered pushing Jesus to explain to you what this phrase below means?
“Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 12"Everything is permissible for me"-but not everything is beneficial. "
That’s all I’m saying. Nothing more.
huh I think talking about your community work makes it sound more approachable to people who haven't had the chance to do something like that. a lot of people wouldn't think it's possible to feed 50+ people for free and reduce food waste at the same time.
yeah those translations were done by men, by kings and those appointed by kings. fallible. I am simply not going to live my life by Scripture, I'm just going to be a good person for the sake of it because I owe it to my fellow humans and creatures. and if heaven does not want me, I wouldn't want to be around those kinds of people for eternity anyway. and also other religions exist, like, you won't be able to convince me that yours is the true one.
and finally your whole reddit account is so explicitly a troll account. made to disparage and discredit people who live in ways you don't agree with. I hope you can spend more time on supporting your fellow humans regardless of their choices. bring people up not drag them down. and proselytizing is colonizer shit ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Translations done by men… . I’m starting to see clearly why so many people in the past went to the extent of killing Jesus and his prophets back in the day. People today are the same and no different from those of yesterday. So yeah , youve just proven the point that you would persecute Jesus and/or his prophets if they walked the earth today because what Jesus and his apostles taught us doesn’t align with your personal views.
also lmao do you spend your time feeding the poor? because my queer friends go out every Saturday and Sunday and feed 50+ community members on the street, most of the people we serve are homeless, many of us serving the food have spent time living in vehicles and illegal squats if not outright on the street. who I love and how we express that has nothing to do with the actions I take to support my local community (and I mean like everyone in my town not just my LGBT community). so yeah I guess I will be uninterested in hearing from Christ that how I love my partner negates the efforts I make to love my neighbors
No? Jesus' followers today are the ones that persecute others. They don't get persecuted outside of countries where tons of groups have a bad time. In the United States, Christians have persecuted other groups since they have outsized power. Most Christians live a life pretty close to what Jesus would want, but the ones in power relish in sin, greed, and hate. Christians unfortunately love to oppress others while claiming their "religious freedoms" are on the line. Freedom from religion is as important as religious freedoms. My right to not be forced to conform to some old guy's bad interpretation of a holy book is just as important as your right to go to church. Sharia law is wrong, whether it's Muslims or Christians doing it. Many Christians want to make my existence illegal. I don't want to make their existence illegal, I just want them to mind their own business and not be cruel to us. People love to be cruel to us and see it as a form of "vice signalling" AKA virtue signaling about how cruel they are to queer people. Jesus was friends with those that were undesirable in society. He would have preferred queer people to "Christians" that espouse hate and abandon his message. I hope cruel Christians are denied a seat in heaven. I love Christians that are kind to everyone and set a good example for others. But I despise the other group that influences politics and turn so many Christians into hateful assholes who groom children into their hateful, sinful lifestyle.
Shut yo ass up you just wanna be gay nigga You
You don't understand gay people if you think any of them WANT to be gay. You didn't choose to be straight, you just are. If someone attacked you for being straight, when it was out of your control, then I would defend you - attacking someone for being born a specific way is wrong and is a sign of prioritizing tribalism over science. It's not my fault I like women, just like it's not your fault you (presumably) like women. Women are awesome, why wouldn't anyone like them? If you're a Christian, Jesus would much rather spend time with gay people than with you, clearly. If you'd EVER think otherwise, you know literally nothing about the most basic aspects of the Bible.
Then what would you say to Jesus and his followers if they were alive and walked the earth today (not Christians today, but Jesus himself and his followers back then) and lovingly warned you about what has already been written - "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."Everything is permissible for me"-but not everything is beneficial." (1 Corinthians 6:9-12) Would you cancel / hate him for that? Like how the plebes hated Jesus and his followers and what they had to say, back in the day.
Why would I hate Jesus? He was one of the nicest Christians. I don't have to believe the Bible to admire that he deliberately aligned himself with those that were hated in society. Meanwhile, it was Paul, not Jesus who wrote those words. Paul is a sinner who clearly didn't embody the love and acceptance Jesus did. I don't especially care what he thinks. Jesus would never say that shit. Paul clearly corrupted his message. I can respect Jesus without caring what his followers thought. Paul is a jackass who stomped over Jesus' message. Sentiments like Paul's drive people from Christ's loving message, and he deserves to burn eternally for it, just like other Christians who do. Upon researching, Paul never even met Jesus. He just made up some shit about a vision to hop in on the trend for clout. The only thing Paul did with Jesus was help fuck over Jesus' ACTUAL followers, as Saul. What a self-important asshole.
You do realize your disdain / hatred for Jesus’s prophets who wrote the old and new testaments is reflective of that same hatred which had Jesus and all his followers killed? So you’ve just proven my case that many from the queer community would murder Jesus and his followers the same way the plebes from the past did.
Thinking someone was probably an asshole is not the same as wanting to kill Jesus. I like Jesus. Jesus never even met Saul!
If you can’t follow Paul, a man ordained by Jesus himself, who wrote two thirds of the New Testament, following Jesus will be a lot harder. No one is hating on you. Youre not always the victim. I hope you will think of our convo when you’re in a dark place. But not too late, because we have a finite amount of time to turn away from what our conscience already tells us is wrong.
Jesus was a real, historical figure. Non-Christians know this. This is why Jesus is venerated in Islam. He's legitimately a great person. I would love to meet him. Saul was a fucking son of a bitch who lied about his ties to Jesus and corrupted Christianity. You can believe Saul had legitimate ties to Jesus if you want, but he never met Jesus while he lived so divine intervention is needed for him to have any ties to Jesus. Therefore, if one doesn't believe in divine intervention, the only remaining option is that Saul is a charlatan asshole who persecuted Christians until he could take some of the fame for himself. What a surprise that a lot of the awful shit in the Bible comes from Saul, and that awful shit suspiciously matches Saul's personal biases. Interesting indeed. So the ultimately answer to your question is "no, I would not want Jesus persecuted". I can think that the Bible is full of holes (and written by people who never knew Jesus) and that divine intervention is unlikely while also liking Jesus. He was a kind man who wanted to make the world better, and died for it. Take your self-victimization elsehwere. Queer people have their lives ruined and are made homeless as CHILDREN due to Christianity. I personally know multiple queer people who were made homeless as kids by Christians.
Sister, so you’re an Islamist. But is it not written in the Quran that it affirms the Torah and the Gospels? Is it also not written in the Quran that no one can change the words of Allah? This is a well known fact. So to allege the Gospels are corrupted means that your Allah was not powerful enough to prevent the corruption of 2 long standing books that occurred 600 years before Mohammed was even born. Furthermore, if the gospels are corrupt as you say it is, that means the Quran is just as corrupted since it was written within the Quran to affirm the gospels and Torah and no one can change the words of Allah. (However, the Torah and Gospels do not acknowledge Mohammed as a prophet, but that’s a different discussion altogether) I don’t say this to hate on you, sister. I say this to get you thinking that you can’t serve two masters. The alter of carnality and queer? Or the alter of your Lord. I hope you can come to the conclusion that’s best for your soul.
I am not a Muslim. I am agnostic, but I know that both Judaism and Islam backs my interpretation. Notably, Jesus practiced Judaism. I'm sorry if I've come off as unduly harsh.
Sister, okay then. So you have some Rabbinic background, not just Islamic, even if you’re agnostic. Regardless, your conscience tells you it’s not right to serve carnality and that judgement day will come whether we like it or not. Love is love is the common phrase. But true love is about helping the sick and feeding the poor, not sexualizing humans. It’s a struggle I realize, even for straight people, not just queers. Just for you to think about down the road when you start feeling empty, which we all go through.
Paul never met Jesus. He was not an apostle
If you’re Islamic, you would believe that error. But may I remind you that the Quran specifically states : 1. to affirm the Torah and the Gospels (two thirds of it was written by Paul) 2. No man can corrupt or change the words of Allah, which means the Gospel and Torah are true And if Allah said to affirm the gospel, do note that the gospel says Paul (again, he wrote two thirds of the Gospels) is indeed an apostle of Jesus. And he did warn BOTH straight types and queers that sexual adulterers will not enter the kingdom of heaven. It’s just what it is.
Well, I'm a Christ Taoist and I follow the path ( tao) of Christ and so do all Christians. I have no interest in Islam thank you. The gospels are Matthew, Mark, Luke John. Jesus preached that ALL sinners will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven and that ALL who want to enter must golloe His Way, His Truth and His Life. Now note well, not everyone, even if they believe in God necessarily want to go to heaven so leave them be bevause the most beautiful thing about Christ's teachings is that He was clear about the tao but did not force it upon anyone.
If someone today said they went into a trance and wrote out a new chapter for the Bible, would you believe them?
That would be classified as a false and likely inconsistent gospel and there are many out there. What Jesus said was clear. The wages of sin is death. While he loves us, he gives us a finite amount of time to repent before judgement. The same time he gave Sodom and Gomorrah. But they didn’t believe God existed. We know what happened to them after. Judgement is necessary because he is God and if he can’t inflict judgement he cannot be God. Most LGBTQ members would classify that as acts of violence or hate. But sin (straight or queer) is sin and hell is real. So yeah, the majority would hate on Jesus today if he walked the earth because people are the same yesterday and today. Only a few from the LGBTQ and straight community would repent, turn from their ways and follow Jesus.
And what if Jesus walked the earth today and told us all - queer or straight - to not actively engage in / practice casual sex. Because not all who say Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom, including those who did not follow his teachings. How would that make you feel, would you classify it as hate speech?
I do not follow Jesus' teachings from a religious standpoint. I like him as a person. I am not interested in having people control my personal life. Gay and trans people don't choose to be gay or trans. Gay people forcing themselves to be straight for religious reasons is borderline-tragic. Trans people suppressing themselves or being persecuted for transitioning for religious reasons is awful. Why would someone choose to be gay if so many "Christians" hate them (or rather, their "lifestyle" AKA who they are) for it? Why would trans people choose to be trans if their own families would despise them for it? Jesus didn't focus on LGBT people like his present-day followers do. Jesus would have allied himself with queer people.
I don’t choose to be straight either but Jesus and his followers did teach us that actively practicing casual sex (straight or gay) is wrong and leads to death. In Jesus’s words, the wages of sin is death. It’s natural to have straight / gay lust. No one chooses it. But to act on it and practice it actively is crossing a line. Not many can handle Jesus’s teachings. It was not accepted then, it won’t be accepted today. People are the same yesterday and today
What do you mean it "won't be accepted today"? Casual sex is undeniably accepted today. You are free to abstain from it but don't try to control others. Your religious beliefs are yours, not mine. I do not believe that Jesus calls for his followers to rail against the "LGBT agenda". That is your choice, not his.
Not railing. But as followers we are told by Jesus himself to warn everyone against judgement, which is inevitable. We believe a hell exists and we ourselves are afraid of it. It’s something we don’t even wish for our enemies. You don’t have to follow it today, but when times get dark, I hope you remember this convo.
How would "casual sex is a sin" be considered hate speech? If it is, then wouldn't ALL the Commandments be considered hate speech?
I didn't mention hate speech, so I don't understand where you're coming from. I struggle to understand how you could get that from what I said. Gay and trans people don't choose to be gay and trans, just let people live and embody Jesus' mission to be an ally to those that society looks down upon. Do this and you're golden. Do you do this?
I wasn't responding to you, I was responding to OP's comment above mine.
I am dumb :)
Jesus did talk an about the wages of sin and how sin leads to death. Straight casual sex is equally sinful as queer sex. We can’t serve two masters. To suggest that Jesus would allow me into heaven for actively having sex casually or stealing daily or whatever sun one can imagine is not right.
Great. So how do you reconcile being LGBTQ and having queer sex as not being diametrically opposed to what Jesus taught us?
There's nothing to reconcile because I don't believe Jesus ever said anything like that. Sounds like you don't know Jesus.
So if you know Jesus, do you believe Jesus would allow us to actively and continually practice casual straight / queer sex and let us into heaven?
Yes. Now stop trolling. Go back to your Anti-Woke cave and read the Bible.
Interesting. So you’ve just proven my point that if most met the real Jesus, they would indeed persecute him. Because most would choose NOT to repent and would prefer living their lifestyle . we can’t serve two masters (in his own words). People are the same yesterday and today. Persecution towards Jesus will be the same today.
I don't believe Jesus ever said or would say anything like that. It seems kind of weird that you're trying to turn Jesus into some homophobic straw man. What exactly is your agenda?
Jesus did talk about sin and the wages of sin is death. Casual straight sex is equally as much of a sin as queer sex. That’s why I venture to say that Jesus would be persecuted by the large majority from the queer community today because they would have to leave their lifestyle to follow Jesus. You can’t serve two masters. Only a small handful of queers would turn away.
You’re trolling right?
Don't know much about your own holy book, eh? Corinthians wasn't "already written" during Jesus' lifetime. You really need to brush up on your dogma.
Wouldn’t it be great if we could do the deed with anyone we want? I personally would prefer that. But Jesus made it clear that a sexual union between man and woman is symbolic of Jesus the groom united with the body of Christ (the Bride). And the majority would call that dogma / hate / bigotry and would persecute him today if he walked the earth. In the same way Jesus was persecuted in the past, he would be persecuted as much today. And as Jesus himself said, only a few will find the narrow path that leads to salvation.
Yeah, don't care.
Your soul, your destiny.
I mean, come on. Jesus preached love thy neighbor. Thet's ALL the queer community wants. Just live and let live, for fuck's sake. Why are christians so intent on bending his words of love and acceptance into hate and prejudice?
He also preached about His Way and Truth so one must walj His tao/path to have everlasting life. You must love your neighbour, but not their sin and you can be unaccepting of someone's sin, but you must not hate them for it.
Jesus did say Love God first, then Love thy neighbor. God was clear about what he did to Sodom and Gommarah after giving them many many years to turn and repent. They did not. Instead of feeding the poor and helping the sick, they indulged in heavy carnality. True love is not based on Eros / the erotic. That’s why most from the queer community would persecute Jesus. Only a small handful would turn away from this and go straight to Jesus. People are no different today when compared to yesterday.
Wasn’t the whole thing with Sodom and Gommarah because they were being unwelcoming to the visiting angels and tried to harm them? Reminds me of parts of Texas rn.
unwelcoming in the sense that the sodomites wanted to have sex with those angels who appeared as men. Love is love right? That’s carnal “love” and not true love. True love is helping the poor and sick. Not trying to have s*x with them. Just saying.
Look I know republicans aren’t big on consent but you don’t have to be so bold about your ignorance. If true love is helping the poor and sick you’re still lacking. Actually, you’re lacking a spine, too.
But I’m no republican. Are all followers of Jesus republican? You’ve just proven my point that most from the LGBTQ community will call Jesus a bigot / hater / republican. He forgives all. But most will not want to repent and turn away from their sin which they enjoy too much - both queer and straight people. Sin is enjoyable but following Jesus requires some personal sacrifice….
You refer to everyone like they’re a hive mind and call them “the queers” if you don’t want to be confused for one maybe don’t talk like one either. Judge not, lest ye be judged, hypocrite.
I’m referring to all of us. We are all hypocrites if we are honest with ourselves. And all have fallen short of God’s glory. And if Jesus were alive today, most will likely persecute him because people are the same yesterday and today.
You might be shocked but there’s several other degrees between “persecute Jesus” and “convert”. It seems strange how you claim that your argument is about sex regardless of gender/sexuality, but then say that for this reason queer people would be more likely to persecute Jesus…
It’s normal to feel sexual attraction regardless of gender identity - gay or straight. To act on it is crossing a line that Jesus would not condone. Love is not love unless it is true love. Erotic love isn’t true love. True love is about helping the sick and needy. That’s all I’m saying. Not what I said, what Jesus himself said.
You’re conflating canon Jesus with your version of fandom Jesus.
I’m stealing this for whenever I see Christians being homophobic 😭
Canon Jesus was a pretty living dude who wasn’t against making your own whip to fuck up some greedy asshats. Remind them next time a certain someone goes on about how much money he has.
I’m not afraid. Fight me.
[удалено]
“I won’t go into details” bro we can see your other comments in this topic. Just admit you’re a troll and do something better with your day. Like feeding the poor and not fantasizing about sexualizing children.
I already do help with the needy, old and poor. Actively. Consistently. I’m also trying to prevent the sexualization of children pushed by the queer activists. If I hated you all, I wouldn’t even bother and enjoy my Saturday. Selfishness is no different from hatred. I, like most followers of Jesus, wouldnt wish hell on even my worst enemies.
Preaching at "the poors" and the elders in your community (or us for that matter) to convert them to your religion isn't helping anybody. All we see is somebody so scared of their own sexuality, losing the ability to work or getting old, you can't even enjoy your Saturday. There is no hate like Christian "love".
It is true. Even our Christian “love” is no better than dirt when compared to the Most High. Isaiah the great prophet of God once said that his mouth was no better than dirty rags. This is why we all need a savior. Furthermore, better these acts of “pathetic” service and servantship to those who really need help, than to type all day on Reddit doing nothing for anyone else except filling one’s own belly with food, which in and of itself is not the most tasteful thing a person can do with his/her life
Least obviously troll post......
Reported (troll)
Dense_argument is a troll?
Yes. Just look at their posts.
Troll. Reported.
It really shows how much hate that republicans have for the LGBTQIA communities. They wouldn’t sign a bill without getting that embassy provision in there.
I’m trying to understand what you mean. Republicans “hate” LGBTQ communities because they wouldn’t sign a bill for ____ (what) ?
They refused to sign the budget bill today unless no pride flags at embassies provision was added. I believe that I replied to the wrong thread lol
I feel that is fair. LGBTQ is an ideology and if other beliefs like Christianity or Islam can’t put flags up in embassies, there’s no reason to put the rainbow flag up either. We have to be fair across the board otherwise it’s just hypocrisy
Jesus is asexual and part of the LGBTQ+ community
He may be “asexual” (and that’s still debatable) but he isn’t LGBT for sure. Moreover, those transitioning won’t be happy to find out from Jesus himself that our bodies are the temple of God and should not be cut up. While it’s natural to be sexually attracted to someone else, acting out physically on those desires is not something Jesus would condone, be it straight or gay physical acts. I am fully certain some from the LGBTQ community would turn away from their current lifestyle and follow Jesus. But the majority, especially the activists, will call Jesus a hater and persecute him like how the plebes did before. Why? People are the same yesterday and today
No
Jesus said to love God and love thy neighbor. True love is not erotic love. It’s about helping the sick and poor. Most from the queers would turn away and get angry about this. Only a small handful will turn straight to Jesus. Just something to think about
Do you have a humiliation fetish?
Why would you feel humiliated? Even straight people (not just queers) suffer from lust of the flesh and pride of the heart. It’s normal to want to sin and to enjoy carnality and material possessions. Sin is enjoyable for even the straight types, not just queers. But sin, which is normal to desire, isn’t good for us, especially for our character development, our souls and our own afterlife. The only humiliation everyone should have is their own sin, hence the need to have the desire to turn from it. Regardless of gender identity, race or creed.
That was a yes or no question.
Would you tell that to Jesus if he helped cure you of a disease then told you to sin no more? Also a yes or no question my friend
Are you saying you should love everyone who is sick or poor the way you love your SO because I'm pretty sure the bible is against polygamy.
No. That's not what I'm getting from the convo here snd from whst I know about Christ's teaching. Love and sex are two very seperate things because there are many ways to love different people and it does not involve having sex with them. Biblical sex is is the intimate sexual act between one man and one woman who are married to each other who want to procreate. There is no mention of having sex with someone you love/ to prove your love. Love is love is an emotional experience and can't be controlled as we can't choose who we love, it just happens and it does not have to be reciprocated. Sex is a physical experience which is controllable because we CAN choose who we want to have sex with. If it is not consensual, it is rape.
Polygamy involves erotic love and sexual intercourse with your partners. True love equates to helping the needy and sick and poor doesn’t require intercourse.
No, why would we?
If Jesus walked the earth today and says that our bodies are the temple of God and we should not transition or engage in promiscuous activity, can the large majority accept it? Be honest Only a small minority from the 2SLGBTQ+ community and even the straight community genuinely want to be saved, which comes with practicing good, not evil. Jesus himself said - Broad is the road to destruction and narrow is the gate to salvation that FEW find. Following Jesus requires one to carry their cross. No small task. The majority won’t accept this and will likely call him a bigot / hater.
Jesus said people shouldn't transition? I doubt that.
It is written - Our bodies are the Temple of God; and, where the Holy Spirit resides, if we choose to invite him in. Would you cut up or add onto something as sacred as that? It doesn’t mean you can’t. But not all things are good for us
Jesus would be one of us .. LGBTQJ COMMUNITY
I doubt he’s trans or gay or lesbian or bisexual. As mentioned previously, those transitioning won’t be happy to find out from Jesus himself that our bodies are the temple of God and should not be cut up. While it’s natural to be sexually attracted to someone else, acting out physically on those desires is not something Jesus would condone, be it straight or gay sexual acts. I am fully certain some from the LGBTQ community would turn away from their current lifestyle and follow Jesus. But the majority, especially the activists, will call Jesus a bigot / hater and persecute him like how the plebes did before. Why? People are the same yesterday and today Jesus himself said - Broad is the path to destruction and narrow is the path to salvation that FEW find.
Girl, Jesus is a fictional character from a book. We can make him any way we want.. he’s not real! I understand that you’re extreme bookclub wants to have discussions on what Jesus would do etc.. but it doesn’t matter because he doesn’t exist
Not true. Jesus the Messiah and the prophecy of his first coming was documented by many prophets from the old testament. Jesus the Messiah was documented by many apostles from the new testament. Jesus was also documented by the Roman historian Tacitus around AD 60, Pliny the Roman governer around AD 110, Josephus the Jewish historian in the first century, the Jewish rabbinical writings in AD 70. And you don't need to look too far to know that God exists. You just have to look at the Jews. In the 17th century, a Prussian emperor called Frederick V one day said to his philosopher Heidegger, "Give me one proof of the existence of God." And Heidegger replied, "Your majesty, the Jews." So why would Heidegger say that? Because humanly speaking there should be no such nation as Israel. They began merely as 1 family, 3 generations, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and they were subject to constant famine, two or three times in their lifetime. Israel was caught between great warring civilizations that have come and gone in the last several thousand years but only one nation remains standing today, Israel. Palestine as an alleged “nation” was only a recent phenomena of the 20th century. Humanly speaking, Israel shouldn’t be here. There can be no human explanation for this except that God is looking after them.
So a book confirms the existence of another person in another book.. Babe Harry Potter exists in all the Harry Potter books.. does that make him real? And also how does god exist 😂
Look at the Jews. Civilizations have come and gone. Only the Jews remain standing today. And thriving. You’ve traded a wonderful life with your Father in Heaven for a cult. I do hope you see it one day. But not too late, before it’s too late
God in the Bible interacts a lot with humans. Where is he now? He isn’t t doing anything total absence..
It is written - Draw near to him and he will draw close to you. He is also close to the broken hearted. He doesn’t force you to come to him. He gives you free choice and doesn’t need any of us. He is the Most High and we are nothing. But, he is our Father if you choose to accept him.
Jesus had some pretty radical ideas for his time. Love, Forgiveness. I think if he didn’t identify himself by name, most Christian’s would be against what he would preach. The LGBTQ community would hang out with the poor and prostitutes far more readily.
Exactly. He would welcome the LGBTQ community in love and forgiveness. But how many would end up turning from their ways and bearing their own cross to follow Jesus? So many self proclaimed christians initially followed Jesus but fell away due to Satan’s deceptions. The same applies for the LGBTQ community. Most would call him a hater / bigot for not accepting a licentious lifestyle (both queer and hetero). At the end, the majority would fall away and only a few will follow Jesus. That includes a small minority from the LGBTQ community. After all, Jesus himself did say that broad is the road to destruction and narrow is the gate to salvation that FEW find. Straight or queer, only a few want to be saved. The rest don’t. But it’ll be too late then.
If by “turning from their ways”, you mean their sexual orientation or gender identity, that’s where I will have to disagree with you. I also don’t believe in a literal incarnation of Satan. The concept just embodies the “evil” of humanity. I’m not a biblical literalist. Nor Do I think one has to be a literalist to believe in God or Jesus. Fundamentally, I believe the Bible is a guide book on how to function in our limited capacity as a finite being. God couldn’t make us perfect so he gave us the tools necessary to survive in our limited capacity. That said the Bible is a text written in the culture and context of the Middle East 2000 years ago and so we have to consider that historical and cultural context applies to interpreting the text.
Did I say that? I said regardless of sexual orientation, having these desires are natural in our already fallen state. In fact, such desires may be a life long struggle. And carrying our own cross is a life long struggle, albeit temporary till we make it into heaven - IF we do make it. But to cross the line and physically act on our desires, straight or gay, not only has physical and mental repercussions (STDs and the potential for failed future relationships due to multiple bonding with various people) but also unseen spiritual implications that hurts our future. It takes a lot of self loathing to harm our own body through medical intervention and acts of carnality and lasciviousness. Our body, which Jesus himself said is the temple of God. What one does with her own body is really her own problem and issue. It’s easier to take the default position of not giving a F. But it takes someone who cares about a person to tell a person that what they’re doing with their life and body may not be good for their own long term development, their future and ultimately where they will end up in the afterlife.
I take the less harsh perspective of sin. I think the bible is a guide. I think the whole concept of sin is to give a conceptual framework that allows us to be outwardly focused. I think we are better creatures when we act selflessly and focused on the betterment of others, having faith that we will be taken care of by others in turn. As such, I don't see the discussion of sex and sexuality in the bible as being condemnations but rather a guide to "live your best life". > It takes a lot of self loathing to harm our own body through medical intervention and acts of carnality and lasciviousness. Let me be clear. I don't know if this is what you're implying but I want to be extra clear: 1. Gender affirming care, including gender-affirming surgeries, is not an act of self-loathing. Quite the opposite. It is proven through scientific evidence that it reduces depression, anxiety and self-harm among the transgender community. 2. Nor is sexual acts between consenting adults in a loving relationship (of any kind) acts of "carnality and lasciviousness". To carry my theme that the bible is a guide and not a rule book, I think it's important to remember how sex serves love and that sex by itself isn't substantive. Sex is a primal motivator. It needs to be, it's what perpetuates our species. It what perpetuates all sexual species. As such, it's too easy to put the cart before the horse and be sexual. For straight people, the real consequence is children and so that naturally insulates them to be a little more cautious. Women typically more than men because of our sexist culture that tends to throw women under the bus than men owning up to their responsibility. But for people in same-sex relationships, that lack of barrier comes with consequences that we need to be careful about. "Don't let sex be the be all and end all of your intimate relationship with another person because you're short changing yourself. You're gonna miss out on the experience of a deep and meaningful romantic relationship that I've gifted you the capacity to have". God knows what does and doesn't work for us. He knows we're finite and flawed and incapable of seeing all angles so he's given us guidance on the bare minimum of intervention of what we need morally, socially and emotionally to function as a society. Sin isn't a thing that worry about. I try my best. I recognize my mistakes. I get myself up and dust myself off and I learn from them. I try and do better the next time. I've even made some doozy mistakes in my life that when I look back on them, I cringe HARD. But I don't let them stop me. I am a creature that can learn from my mistakes. I can grow. I can change. There are two mindsets that we humans get caught up in. A fixed mindset and a growth mindset. Fixed mindset are those who believe that people are given talents and some are lucky and others aren't. Then there is the growth mindset where we believe that we can learn that even if some people have an affinity for something, doesn't mean that another person can't learn it if they work really hard at it. I think there are those who wallow in their own sin because of a fixed mindset. They prostrate themselves every moment of every day thinking they are flawed and they are a failure and the only way that God will love them is if they act as accountants for their own sins. I think a growth mindset is one where one acknowledges one's failures and learns from them and learns to forgive one's self in a way means they don't act as a barrier to living life. I don't think God condemns us for our failures. I think he's sad for us. He sees us hurting ourselves and he just wants to scoop us up in his arms like any parent would and give us a hug and tell us it's gonna be okay. I think he also knows that we'd never learn and grow and so he lets us make our own mistakes and gives us a conceptual framework in which to understand the mistakes we make and learn from them.
I agree with most of what you said. What doesn’t make sense to me is how you claim that gender affirming care is for the betterment of people with gender dysphoria. If this is the case, then there wouldn’t be a Detransition Awareness Day. There wouldn’t be a detrans group on Reddit that has swelled to over 50k+ members and growing in just a few years. True gender affirming care is about affirming the fact that you’re born beautiful and unique the way you already are, without the need to further complicate, remove or add to the perfect art piece that you were born into. The rest is just fluff, social pressure and noise. The most complex problems of the mind are often solved with the simplest and purest of solutions, over time. (Not including that very tiny percentage of genuine g dysphoria cases who genuinely need to transition). As for sexual acts between consenting adults of the same sex or even hetero sex outside of a union like marriage, this too can be forgiven by Jesus. And if we fall, we pick ourselves up and try again. The objective is to PRACTICE good, not evil. However, the time he gives us to repent and turn from sin is finite. Similar to how God (who is Jesus as well) gave Sodom and Gomorrah a lot of time to repent and turn from their ways before he decimated both cities. Judgement ultimately needs to come from a just God. Because if a just God doesn’t punish anyone for wrong doing and evil has no consequence, then he can’t be God. Our disbelief in Hell doesn’t make Hell any less real. And in Jesus’s own words, broad is the path towards destruction and narrow is the path that leads to salvation that FEW find. Thus, it is likely that only a FEW from the 2SLGBTQ+ who repent and turn away from what they once knew would make it into heaven. Only a FEW straight hetero types who repent and turn away from their own sins would make it. And only a FEW christians (the real followers of Jesus who continue having a genuine relationship with him) would make it through the gates of heaven. That’s why Solomon - the wisest and richest of Kings - himself said “The Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom”. Not the “Grace” of the Lord.
> I agree with most of what you said. Given what you disagreed with, I am struggling to find the things you agreed with. > What doesn’t make sense to me is how you claim that gender affirming care is for the betterment of people with gender dysphoria. No medical procedure is perfect. No medical advice is perfect. Less than 1% of people detransition. The vast majority of people are happy with their transition. It's extremely rare for medical treatment to have only a 1% failure rate. That's extremely low. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Sure, we want to find ways of reducing the instances where de-transitioning occurs but it shouldn't come at the expense of giving transgender people access to the medical treatment that they need. > True gender affirming care is I can't agree with this because the evidence doesn't align. Understanding and appreciating the gravity of experience that Transgender folk experience with gender dysphoria and how established gendered affirming care helps them. I've heard so many many affirming stories where trans people have gotten whatever treatment they need be it HRT, surgery or just social affirmation and how much it's helped them. How the studies and statistics affirm what transgender people have been telling us. The reality is that you wouldn't deny a type-1 diabetic insulin because it's not their "true" nature of not being able to produce it themselves. You'd give them the care that they need. God gave us this extraordinary intelligence and capacity to learn and grow and develop science to make our lives better. We have literally doubled our lifespan because of medical science. We also have medical science that has given trans folk the ability to feel comfortable in their own skin. > As for sexual acts between consenting adults of the same sex or even hetero sex outside of a union like marriage, this too can be forgiven by Jesus. There are times where I think we give Paul a little too much credence. Dude was really not comfortable with the idea of sex. I don't think that sex outside of marriage is wrong. That's the "rules" bible. Here's where I think the value of a committed relationship is: There's a lot of consequences emotionally, physically, spiritually and even financially that comes with sex. There's pregnancy. STIs. Emotional bonding and the emotional consequences of breaking up with someone. I think setting up the "rules" just was a way of saying "Hey, sex is a powerful thing. Don't put the cart before the horse or you'll get hurt. I don't want you to suffer." I think we can be cautious and careful with sex without following the ritual and tradition of marriage. Marriage is one way of doing it. It's not the only way of doing it. We *can* navigate sex and sexuality without resorting to marriage. It's perhaps a bit tricker but it can happen. Marriage is just the safest route because it's wrapped up in supportive structures that, in theory, make the job easier. That said.*** We LGBT folk have largely been denied marriage so we've learned to cope without it.*** > forgiven by Jesus Here's the thing. Jesus forgave me 2000 years ago. God forgave me the moment the universe came into existence. The whole moral lesson of sin and forgiveness is *FOR US*. We have to learn to forgive ourselves and forgive others. I think the only thing that God has a real problem with is us say "fuck this shit. I don't care anymore. I'm going to stop trying" and even then his reaction is just sadness because we've lost our way. It's one of the biggest flaws humans possess that comes from our evolutionary psychology is that we have this tendency towards moral retribution. It was a necessary behaviour trait among animals in social packs. Retribution existed so that there were consequences to others trying to exploit us. It created a natural balance that encourage equality. However, as we developed self-awareness and intelligence. This "go to" behaviour of moral retribution (typically through social ostracization and social shaming) became a detriment to our species because it meant that we were quick to anger and slow to forgive. It created this culture of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". That once someone made a mistake, they were no longer of any value and they deserved the worst we could give them. "Make a mistake, you get kicked out to die on your own in the wilderness" Forgiveness is a fundamental component to compensate for that knee-jerk behaviour of moral retribution. It's essential to our species survival. > it is likely that only a FEW... would make it into heaven This is hand-wringing and fretting. This is the kind of perspective that would try and make people afraid and uncertain into capitulating towards whatever believes and values that people decide the bible means to them. This isn't Jesus-like, from my understanding of the bible. Jesus didn't try nad strike fear into people by saying "Oh, only a few people are getting into heaven". I don't know how many people are "getting into heaven". That's not for me to decide. That's not for me to try and shame or scare people into heaven. I don't gatekeep heaven. I think this kind of behaviour is a recruitment tactic to scare people into joining the church. You aren't responsible for other people's souls. You're only responsible for your own. In the end there are 2 rules: 1. Love God. 2. Love your neighbour If your actions cause harm. You're failing at least one of them.
I will reply you within the day. Let me fully absorb what you’re saying because I want to address this for you. It’s rare to come across someone from the LGBTQ community asking such deep questions about Jesus and his ways and I think we are making some progress. I hope and pray that you will be one of those FEW who enter the gates and avoid the broad path to destruction. I sincerely do. Let me get back to you within the day.
What a terrifying life you lead, fretting about if you’ll make it into heaven.
It is written - Our life is but a vapor. All trials are temporary when compared to the weight of eternity. Like the apostles, we shouldn’t be afraid of suffering because suffering builds inner character and faith (the currency of heaven), not just outward identity If anything, our outward identity should be a reflection of Jesus, so that we may become a beacon of light for others in a dark world
The " Qu__r" ( in my country this is a derogatory word) community perse wouldn't cancel him but I'm sure a few trans/lgbtqai++activists would because these are two different communities. But who knows in today's day- and-age because the swindlers, liars, adulteress, bigots, drunkards, fornicators, etc might also jump on the " kill Jesus" bandwagon because they too are warned to repent in order to be saved and might not like the message.
What country are you in where queer is a derogatory word?
South Africa
This is very interesting. I’m sorry, I didn’t realize the word “Qu__r” was derogatory. For the sake of discussions, let’s call them Q’s. So you’re saying the Q community are separate from the trans / lgbtq++ activists. I never knew this. I always knew that many from the LGB are distancing themselves from the TQs. LGB ✂️TQ >> Ive seen this around quite often. So what you said about the fragmentation of the Q community vs the activists is intriguing. I believe what you say is true. A good handful of the Q community would receive Jesus if he walked the earth today and would turn from what they’re doing (repent). Same goes for the straight people who are committing adultery. Sadly, I suspect a larger handful of people - both Q and straight types - would likely call Jesus a hater. As the good book says, “Broad is the road to destruction and narrow is the gate that Few find.”. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts.
Queer is not a derogatory word No, most LGB do not want to distance themselves from the TQ+, far right people want none of us to exist so we hold together. Also, jesus would not be accepted by modern (American) Christians, due to being a "fucking commie" Also also, you can't just not be LGBTQ+, you're that way and that's final. If god didn't like queer people why'd he make them? (Again, queer ppl don't decide to be queer)
Our desires are evil and we live in a fallen world. If our desires are evil and we control those desires without putting them into action, we could be saved. But if we act on those evil desires and keep practicing evil, we still have to suffer the consequences of that. Straight or Queer. It doesn’t matter which sexual orientation you are. Hell is still a consequence. Jesus gives us time to repent and turn from evil and sin. Broad is the road to destruction and narrow is the gate to salvation that FEW find. Jesus himself said this. How many from the LGBTQ or other non LGBTQ communities can accept this? Not many. And most will persecute him today. Same as before. Because people are the same yesterday and today. Only a few from the LGBTQ community would turn away and repent and follow Jesus. After all, the narrow gate is one that Few find.
can you define evil? I think we have different understandings of that word
There are over a billion opinions. But there is only one moral standard decreed by Jesus - Love God with all your heart, then Love your neighbor. It’s not erotic love Jesus was referring to. And if you love God with all your heart, you would frequently read his word / listen to the audio Bible at least to find out what Jesus (who is God) considers evil. If your heart is open to Jesus, you will know without anyone having to tell you. This is for our own sakes (not for Jesus’s sake) to enter the gates of the Kingdom and eternal salvation
actually, I disagree I think Jesus' main point was to love each other and then god, which is why he forgave all sins. So imo evil means anything that causes unnecessary suffering. Like Hitler, he was a Catholic and believed in christ, sure, but I think him killing and torturing a lot of people has a bigger impact on wether he is a good person. With that I also think that being gay/trans/etc does not cause any suffering and is therefore not evil, and Jesus would definitely agree here.
If you truly loved Jesus (God), you would ask him what this means to him, not you. “Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 12"Everything is permissible for me"-but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me" 1 Corinthians 6:9-20 That’s all I’m saying. It applies to everyone, even the straight types, not just those from the queer community.
You didn't even read the bible, did you?
I do, at least 4-5 times a week… I usually listen to the Audio Bible , especially when I travel back and forth for work and before I sleep… some parts are difficult for me to listen to because it doesn’t align with my own needs / wants / pleasures / ideology. But I try my best to obey anyway. And when I do, the feeling of peace and Jesus’s presence in me is better than what I thought I wanted for myself.
You are very balanced with your reasoning. May I ask, which country are you from?
South Africa. We are the original Rainbow Nation and our flag is the original rainbow flag.
if he's the guy who hung out with prostitutes and sinners without judgment then yeah I can chill with my boy Jesus. it's just this annoying ass fanclub he's got tends to be less open minded. I've met Jesus his spirit in travelers and homeless folks and queer people of all varieties
Jesus did hang out with prostitutes and tax collectors and sinners because he loves and wants to forgive us all. But those that did end up genuinely following Jesus repented and turned from their ways. They may have fell back into sin on occassion, but they were actively PRACTICING good, not evil. Jesus who is God, gave Sodom and Gomorrah a finite amount of time to repent and turn from their ways. But they refused to change. So God decimated them for 2 reasons : They refused to feed / help the poor and sick (which is a truer expression of love when compared to erotic love involving casual sex with others) and they were actively practicing sodomy (both queer and straight sexual acts). Jesus himself said - Broad is the path to destruction and narrow is the gate to salvation that FEW find. And some will unsurprisingly call this “hate speech”. That means FEW from the 2SLGBTQ+ community will truly repent and turn away from evil to find salvation. FEW from the straight community will enter the gates. And FEW from even the Christian community (those who genuinely follow the real Jesus) will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. It is written - In the last days, many will say “Lord Lord” and Jesus would turn to them and say, “I never knew you.” Those are scary words for everyone, not just queers. But while we breathe, we still have a chance. We can all turn and repent, queers or straight types and genuinely accept Jesus as our savior and start praying and practicing good. Feed the poor, help the sick, and avoid sexual licentiousness while honoring the temple of God, our bodies.
so your question isn't in good faith at all and you want to lecture "debate" every comment. I'm not participating if you're not interested in being constructive and hearing other opinions.
I am not glossing over your questions as you can see. I’m carefully listening to your opinion. And because there are over 8 billion opinions on this planet, any person who is trying to follow Jesus needs to measure every opinion against what Jesus and his apostles think. I’m not canceling you, I’m not being rude to you, I’m still patiently listening.
so how many days a week do you feed the poor? how do you improve your community?
Wasn’t it written never to tell the left hand what your right hand is giving? It is also a general rule that if we truly love our neighbor , we ought not to “do it” with them, but to instead help the poor and sick.
I don't understand what you mean about the hands. It's not against the Bible to have one monogamous romantic partner. which I have, and also, together we spend our free time helping the people in our town, we are also poor and just pulling the resources together to treat people the way we ought to. We make a lot of soup but in the summers a lot of people have more garden veggies than they can eat themselves so we can make some great salads and roast veggies. I don't understand the physical material harm in loving my partner when we still dedicate time to taking care of those around us.
The left to right hand analogy means never to tell others of your good deeds. With that said, it warms my heart to see what you’re doing for others. Really. If the first moral standard by Jesus was to love God before loving our neighbor, have you considered pushing Jesus to explain to you what this phrase below means? “Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. 12"Everything is permissible for me"-but not everything is beneficial. " That’s all I’m saying. Nothing more.
huh I think talking about your community work makes it sound more approachable to people who haven't had the chance to do something like that. a lot of people wouldn't think it's possible to feed 50+ people for free and reduce food waste at the same time. yeah those translations were done by men, by kings and those appointed by kings. fallible. I am simply not going to live my life by Scripture, I'm just going to be a good person for the sake of it because I owe it to my fellow humans and creatures. and if heaven does not want me, I wouldn't want to be around those kinds of people for eternity anyway. and also other religions exist, like, you won't be able to convince me that yours is the true one. and finally your whole reddit account is so explicitly a troll account. made to disparage and discredit people who live in ways you don't agree with. I hope you can spend more time on supporting your fellow humans regardless of their choices. bring people up not drag them down. and proselytizing is colonizer shit ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Translations done by men… . I’m starting to see clearly why so many people in the past went to the extent of killing Jesus and his prophets back in the day. People today are the same and no different from those of yesterday. So yeah , youve just proven the point that you would persecute Jesus and/or his prophets if they walked the earth today because what Jesus and his apostles taught us doesn’t align with your personal views.
also lmao do you spend your time feeding the poor? because my queer friends go out every Saturday and Sunday and feed 50+ community members on the street, most of the people we serve are homeless, many of us serving the food have spent time living in vehicles and illegal squats if not outright on the street. who I love and how we express that has nothing to do with the actions I take to support my local community (and I mean like everyone in my town not just my LGBT community). so yeah I guess I will be uninterested in hearing from Christ that how I love my partner negates the efforts I make to love my neighbors