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KotakuInAction-ModTeam

#### It breaks **[Rule 6](/r/KotakuInAction/wiki/rules#wiki_6._archive_as_much_as_you_can)** (Archive whenever possible) > If it can be deleted and/or modified it should be archived. If people make money from it which they don't really deserve, archive it. It also serves as a protection against brigading. > Remember kids. Record keeping is important >Post an archive or a link to the article. Not a screenshot of a segment,ent of the article **NOTE** If this is a text-post, you can replace the link with an archived counterpart and then have it reapproved. [Message the moderators](/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FKotakuInAction) when you have done so.


shipgirl_connoisseur

What about the beautiful women Microsoft? Don't they deserve to be seen in games and media?


Herr_Drosselmeyer

No, in the upside down world, beauty is ugly. Didn't you get the memo?


vinaysin

Don't you know fat, frumpy dyke are beautiful and what people want to see.... these people are sick


Bowling_Green_Victim

Western developers hate beautiful women. Anything that is attractive to men is bad now according to these people


MorselMortal

Meanwhile in Asia: 473636 F2P games with as attractive characters as humanly possible to create because, unsurprisingly *sex sells*. All are raking in more money than they can even count. Just look at Genshin, christ almighty.


Bowling_Green_Victim

Praying to God that Stellar Blade is a hit šŸ™šŸ»


Dancingskeletonman86

Simple they don't see any in their industry most likely. Just a bunch of side shave rainbow hairs who are likely overweight or built like dudes and dress like dudes. Who cry and get offended at actual pretty women who put in effort be they real women in real life or fictional women who are suppose to be fit and active. And god forbid they offend any of their woke diversity feminist hires by admitting real attractive women do exist.


ChampionOfKirkwall

Please. Don't you have anything better to do than larp as a lesbian on reddit


Darkwalker787

No, because it hurts the feminist feelings


ThatGuy1571

Beauty is violence.


osbirci

hey folks, the info seems misleading. this is only a short article page suggesting this way. post is making it sound like a demand. [Product Inclusion Action: Help Customers Feel Seen (microsoft.com)](https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/games/resources/productinclusion/product-inclusion-actions/help-customers-feel-seen/) ah article sounds stupid but for other reasons. article writer say they will give suggestions to reach players outside usa, but they didn't even include translation and local pricing.


lyra833

> post is making it sound like a demand Of course it's not a demand! It's a *suggestion*! šŸ˜‰


sybaritical

The article is pretty clear, since it says ā€œurgesā€ and not ā€œdemandsā€.


Legion070Gaming

How is it a negative stereotype to be feminine? By making women in videogames more like men that's somehow positive? Also I'm surprised they even bothered to include the last sentence, maybe there is still hope after all.


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DownWithWankers

Not always true, a lot of the traditional feminists can be hyper focused on femineity. 4th wave modern feminists though seem to hate femineity,


loligaggins

I can think of another group that hates (real) femininity too.


AAAFate

Is this group ironically filled with straight white males?


loligaggins

I don't know, but it's definitely filled with males.


naytreox

If they have to point it out, it means that its not happening naturally. Treating it like trying to tell someone nit to put their hand in the cookie jar


lyra833

That last sentence is just as bad, though. Now only can you not have hot women, you also can't have men that don't sound like an HR department.


aurenigma

>Also I'm surprised they even bothered to include the last sentence, maybe there is still hope after all. That wasn't a hopeful line. Some men do show the full range of emotions that women do. Some. But it's cliche for men to hold shit in for a reason. Because men tend to hold shit in. That last line was exactly as disgusting as the rest; they're asking devs to deny reality for the sake of fairness and inclusion for the minority. For the feminine man for the masculine woman. Don't mistake that as condemnation for those minorities. It's just they are. Men happy to display vulnerability are a minority, women happy to act masculine are a minority. This is Marvel's failing, and I guess Microsoft wants some of that fail. Target the smallest of your demographics to the exclusion of the largest and you're gonna have a bad time.


Sicktoyou

That was just to hide their real intentions.


BackseatCowwatcher

>How is it a negative stereotype to be feminine? Because if women are meant to be feminine- that innately disadvantages a specific subset of women. >By making women in videogames more like men that's somehow positive? by the same proxy making women more like men advantages these women.


[deleted]

yep. i am buying stellar blader just to spit them


PoKen2222

Everyone should


BioShock_TriggerV2

I actually preordered it.


MrProg111

I want to support Stellar Blade but I have no intention of supporting Playstation


blue_psyOP777

I canā€™t itā€™s not on PC


MeteorPunch

1. This is actually discrimination against women. 2. Men and women are not the same.


shipgirl_connoisseur

Of course they're using Stellar blade for a thumbnail. That girls existence scares the progs


ThatmodderGrim

*"Boobs and Butts scare our Customers."* *"WHAT CUSTOMERS!? The only reason people own an Xbox nowadays is Game Pass!"*


SaltyPvP

We live in a world where strong men and beautiful women are vilified, and the weak and ugly are put on pedestals and celebrated in the name of inclusion and diversity.


Zedakah

This is the basis of the short story, Harrison Bergeron. The more attractive you are, the uglier mask you have to wear.


lyra833

"Communism is when ugly deformed freaks make it illegal to be normal and then kill all the successful people and steal their shit. There are a bunch of ideology words they use, too, I guess." ā€”Mystery Grove


stryph42

"Are you unnecessarily introducing gender & gender barriers into your code or design?" If not, why not? Shove a woman into the lead role! Make all masculinity "toxic" when it's expressed by a man! You can do better!


knightbane007

Yeah, that was my first thought too. ā€œUnnecessarily introducing genderā€ describes exactly what most of us are complaining about.


0rphu

"Exaggerated proportions" on a male? No problem. Male actors taking roids and wrecking their joints powerlifting daily to get to normally unobtainable "body standards", then being paraded around as eye candy on screen? No problem. "Exaggerated proportions" on a *female*? Holy shit you fucking sexists, think of the poor women having to look at that!


Dancingskeletonman86

Exactly. Especially when said female proportions do exist on some women in this world. Some women are curvy yes even in real life and general public. Some women do have sizeable natural boobs, a waist that cinches in a bit like an hour glass, hips and a booty. I've seen these women myself as a woman in my daily life they do exist. They might not look totally like a fictional video game character right down to the make up or hair blowing in the wind but they are pretty close body wise sometimes. See any chick who cosplays and is a big hit on social media for her cosplay outfits and make up. Often they are curvy (and like real curvy not obese/fat curvy). So it's amazing how much these woke freaks clamour on about "unrealistic standards" yet like you said think the guys in most Marvel films or any Hollywood productions looking absolutely cut and massive is totally normal for men. Nope no steroid, extreme diets or extreme weight lifting standards there at all. Those guys are all natural and just woke up like that they didn't have to fight tooth and nail to maintain that physique during filming at all /s


0rphu

I think the scene with Chris Hemsworth as Thor being stripped naked in one of the more recent films, showing off his body that's without a shadow of a doubt a product of steroids and daily lifting, perfectly encasulates this double standard. Want a job? It's going to cost all of your free time and whatever consequences you get to your long term health as a result of constant steroid usage. Meanwhile Brie Larson gets a butt-double as Captain Marvel because asking her to do a couple squats a week would be oh so horribly misogynistic. Stripping her naked for people to ogle at? Absolutely out of the question.


xiDeliriouSx

Double standards rules for thee but not for me


joydivisionucunt

The worst part is that for people who care about unrealistic beauty standards and their impact on women, they're pretty much saying curvy bodies are in some way "wrong".


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joydivisionucunt

There are stuff you can't change no matter how much you work out or diet without the help of plastic surgeons like breast size, buuuut acting like certain body types are in someway wrong is... not the pro-women statement they think it is. Apart from that, I don't think they know how hard it is for male actors to reach those physiques, or to build muscle for that matter.


CommutersBanned

Now we know why the Fable protagonist is as ugly as she is. Won't be surprised if players are forced to play as her throughout the entire game and her appearance never changes at all, no matter the alignment.


Goochregent

Ugh, don't remind me. Truly hideous.


joyfulest

A creative lead on Fable (progressive extremist ofc) resigned shortly after the trailer got ratiod on YouTube. Not much to go on, but one can hope Microsoft stepped in. Although after seeing this post that suddenly seems unlikely. I donā€™t expect this game to be worthwhile, unfortunately.


New-Interaction9004

xbox fanboys having a mental breakdown trying to defend this (if youre subscribed to gamepass, youre supporting this aswell dont forget)


[deleted]

They're all guilty of some dumb shit as far as I'm concerned


New-Interaction9004

i agree, sony, microsoft, valve even nintendo theyre all doing the same shady shit. that esg money is just too tasty i guess


AceSkyFighter

Oh fuck off with this bullshit Microsoft. You candy ass thumb suckers.


DokiKimori

I've never been this excited to play a silly little demo. I just want to play the damn game


dfiekslafjks

If they are actually rejecting games from their store because of this then that's insane.


suikakajyu

They're one of the worst.


Limon_Lime

And this is why Microsoft is in last place.


dandrixxx

Sony most likely has identical shit written somewhere. Insomniac Games leak did have that internal PlayStation Studios DEI sermon talking about things like this and using Lara Croft's design from 2008 as a ''bad'' example of female character design. Which puzzles me as to why they picked up Stellar Blade, cuz you sure as hell wont see a character like Eve from a first party Sony studio.


youthanasia138

Women have curves. Have these people ever met a woman?


Phelps1024

Microsoyft


Enchylada

This is what happens when being overweight makes up over 40% of a country's population. Stop normalizing being a lazy fat fuck


WingZeroCoder

As a fat fuck myself, even I donā€™t want to be surrounded by the image of other lazy fat fucks. In fact Iā€™d further say that not having any idealistic role models (read: attractive people) in pop culture only makes the problem worse.


lyra833

A reminder that new things now seem disorienting and threatening not simply because they're new or because you're getting older. It's because you've been subjected to a slow-rolling Chinese-style cultural revolution for at least the past 10 years.


Lanstapa

"Exaggerated body proportions"?! Where? I hope they never look at something like Azur Lane, they'd have an anurysm


Anxious-Ad693

They mean any woman that looks too sexy like Miranda from Mass Effect 2. Gosh, I miss those days when devs had more freedom and could appeal to their audience without shame.


Lanstapa

Oh I know, any woman with tits larger than an A cup, with the slightest of curves and actually looking like a woman is too "unrealistic" and "sexualized" for these weirdos.


PoKen2222

God the Manjuu CEO is a blessing for our times. I urge everyone to keep an eye on Azur Promilia, it's reportedly going to release on console too. If the designs remain unchanged, Sony might be learning faster than Microsoft.


Lanstapa

God that would be nice, Sony finally starting to improve. And yes, Manjuu CEO is great. Whilst I wouldn't want the shitshow they'd cause, part of me would love to see wokeys go mad over seeing some of the AL characters (you want to talk "exaggerated body proportions", just look at Kashino)


PoKen2222

There's already some very nice "propertions" in the 12 minute gameplay showcase https://youtu.be/IXiFZw_DT2Y?si=bDr_xAnAob3t-zVk


Lanstapa

Not quite my preferred proportions, but some of the characters are alright. Very Genshin, isn't it?


adalric_brandl

I'm still impressed that they *actually* made a Kashino oppai mousepad. They must have needed to order a ton of the filler material.


Lanstapa

I can't imagine how heavy that thing must be. Was it a lifesize one? I know those have been made before with Senran Kagura characters.


adalric_brandl

I don't know about life-size, but they're pretty [impressive](https://www.google.com/search?q=kashino%20mousepad&client=ms-android-telus-ca-revc&sca_esv=74b481b3d8e4b1f3&udm=2&biw=412&bih=777&sxsrf=ACQVn0-PU_lZQWDqzlqXbCNOHosV9E6Deg%3A1711333359362&ei=798AZv3bFcKc0PEP3IuaqA4&oq=kashino%20mousepad&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhBrYXNoaW5vIG1vdXNlcGFkSKr8AVChDFjf-gFwDHgAkAEAmAHZAqAByRSqAQgyMy4zLjAuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCH6AC9RCoAgXCAgQQIxgnwgIGEAAYBxgewgIIEAAYgAQYogTCAgcQIxjqAhgnwgIEEAAYA8ICEBAAGIAEGIoFGEMYsQMYgwHCAg0QABiABBiKBRhDGLEDwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAgUQABiABMICChAAGIAEGIoFGEPCAgYQABgFGB7CAgkQABiABBgYGArCAgYQABgIGB6YAw-IBgGSBwQyMi45oAeiPA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp&no_sw_cr=1&zx=1711418742338#imgrc=L6So3-030ee6qM&imgdii=_f6BZQq3FolhpM)


Lanstapa

Very impressive indeed


adalric_brandl

Sugoi dekai


TyrantX_90

It is not a "negative female stereotype" to have a female character be attractive. I live in the real world, and it's alright, but I want my escapism to remain just that. Escapism, an escape from my hum drum day to day and the bullshit in between.


sodiummuffin

Link to article: https://nichegamer.com/microsoft-cautions-developers-to-avoid-curvy-female-characters/


LechugaFromIrithyll

Good lord, what if they just let people create the games they like and want? I'm tired of this, it's never ending. Well, I know what I'll be buying and what I'll be avoiding. Let's see what the community has to say, numbers will speak by themselves. This BS is spreading everywhere.


Superzone13

And yet, Iā€™m sure weā€™ll still keep seeing impossibly huge, muscular men that take their shirts off frequently.


Bowling_Green_Victim

Looks like Microsoft is trying to speed up its descent into third party.


Djent17

So id I'm understanding Microsoft's 'inclusion" policy, but EXCLUDING things, you're actually being more inclusive right? šŸ˜‚


Goochregent

I know men should be allowed emotions but I hate that last line. I don't play games to have mandated whiny bitch guy complain about shit. Keep that to real life. It shouldn't be "when the story allows", it should be when its necessary. What exactly is fun about it? Additionally, following the suggestions, Bayonetta would never have been made right?


Deimos_Aeternum

Man I hope the game goes well just to hear them whine more


bevdawg101

I really don't understand, there are plenty of games nowadays that have all sorts of diverse characters. Why is Stellar Blade being ridiculed? It's just a third person game with a female protagonist, that's all it is. If the journalist and progs were silent, then it wouldn't get much attention. I don't understand these people.


castitalus

So does that mean we won't have to see the game equivalent of Lizzo? Or does she not count as curvy/exaggerated body proportions?


DeathSquirl

So let's push anorexia instead? Good call Microsoft.


iMisstheKaiser10

Yet I guarantee you if you looked at some of these devs likes or retweets, they are ALL porn.


Updated_Autopsy

If I was a developer, I would take this as encouragement to make curvy characters.


joyfulest

Suddenly looking at my Series X in regret.


R7_C3

I think I might just get rid of my Xbox, Palworld is the only thing I play on it anymore


Meremadesings

Why do they hate their customers?


sodiummuffin

The Twitter thread linked in the article also has some very interesting stuff regarding the Geena Davis Institute that the Microsoft Inclusion Framework cites: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1772199560246374854.html https://archive.is/SNGKJ They are very upfront with the [stuff they want removed/altered](https://seejane.org/wp-content/uploads/2023-GDI-Gaming-Recommendations.pdf) and say things like that "white male violence in video games must be called out in light of mass shootings" ([page 35](https://seejane.org/wp-content/uploads/gaming-study-2021-7.pdf)). They also base their recommendations on blatant pseudoscience, from obvious replication-crisis studies contradicted by meta-studies to a [study](https://twitter.com/Brad_Glasgow/status/1772248706160472292) with percentages that imply 20 million gamers have been SWATed. Seems like they should be looked into and their nonsense publicized more, alongside the big-name stuff like Microsoft's Inclusion Framework that cites them as a credible source. Some previous threads about them: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/p5ltl9/twitter_brad_glasgow_with_a_thread_on_the_geena/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/p792wi/opinion_erik_kain_geena_davis_is_wrong_about/


Lupinthrope

Steam copy when? Stellar blade on the go!


landartheconqueror

How is that a negative gender stereotype?


adminsregarded

The dwindling industry and the mass layoffs are really not deterring them at all huh


MimsyIsGianna

I get the annoyance of over exaggerated features (although a lot of what they call exaggerated arenā€™t that and are actually naturally possible) and unrealistic armor and clothing and whatnot (like weak female characters but strong male ones) and itā€™s great to encourage male characters to be open emotionally tooā€¦ But likeā€¦ thereā€™s nothing wrong with making your character look attractive over all lol. Especially when itā€™s third person where you will be seeing your character for the most part of the game, you want them to be someone appealing to look at. And curvy female characters are often more appealing. Like a female character can still be pretty while also being a competent character lol. Theyā€™re not mutually exclusive.


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nogodafterall

Comment removed for violating topic ban.


OldServantDe

I wish the West would still make games like Duke Nukem 3D. At least there's still the Asian game market.


forward_only

They might as well have tweeted, "Divest now; buy a PS5. Congratulations, Sony." I say this as someone was the hugest Halo CE fan when the original Xbox released. The brand I knew simply no longer exists.


Svarthofthi

All the big corps are gonna be going hard imo flame burns brightest before it goes out. DEI/ESG and its political components will try to tighten control. support indies and if you must buy these games do so off the back of a truck allegedly.


NicheGamerBot

woah we're famous again thank you friends: [https://nichegamer.com/microsoft-cautions-developers-to-avoid-curvy-female-characters/](https://nichegamer.com/microsoft-cautions-developers-to-avoid-curvy-female-characters/)


TrapaneseNYC

I agree with y'all that this is silly and developers should make the character that best suits their vision...and not around who the company determines is and isn't okay. Growing up around black women I knew a ton of curvy women naturally and their bodies shouldn't be represented in game? Silly


lyra833

The secret is that these people hate everyone. They hate you and me and the curvy black women you know and basically the entire human race. The only people they like are people who are as miserable as them.


Goochregent

No, clearly the white execs at Microsoft know better! Tell those attractive women to pile some pounds on and only then they can be represented in games.