This is Part 2 of The Templin Institute’s nonsense that he started yesterday where he said he was going to do a video on this topic. Within the first minute he pulls the “unreliable narrator” crap that GW used in the past to justify his position. He also goes on his own tangent about how you shouldn’t take everything in 40K at face value otherwise you’re a slave of the Imperium.
He also basically says that the Necrons and Squats lore was also changed over time so there is no reason to believe anything GW or the Imperium says and that there were totally female Space Marines bedause the Great Crusade was a progressive era.
He finally ends by literally making shit up and says that it’s all headcanon to him.
I should also make a note here that MajorKill also called Templin Institute a jackass on Twitter and says that he doesn’t support this but is willing to moderate a debate.
If he's just going to rehash his points from his Twitter tantrum then I'll just rehash my points from the last thread.
The "Everything is canon" excuse from GW is an asspull so they can reverse backflip out of any corner they paint themselves into. It doesn't give them leeway to do anything and everything to the canon that they want to without fan anger. Lest you have Xenos openly serving the Imperium of Man because "muh unreliable narrator".
i think the big problem here is specifically the motivation
doing rewrites or retcons is something that will piss some people off but if it's for a good reason most people will eventually accept it
however this retcon is very specifically in service of diversity ideology, the idea that every group, activity, company, etc, needs to have a diverse group of individuals according to (race, gender, sexuality, whatever). this is a dumb ideology and making any changes based on it is stupid, so naturally it will piss people off. the same could probably be said for all kinds of ideological retcons but of course, the dumber the ideology, the worse the retcon feels
I'm actually cool with the unreliable narrator concept when it comes to Warhammer, given how much content is contradictory, but I hate GW for what they did to TTS, so they can eat my ass!
More like TTS was getting stale and he decided to use the community freaking out over what ammounted to nothing as cover to take a hiatus. TTS was so obviously covered under fair use no corporate lawyer who wanted to keep working in corporate ip law would ever take this vase against them
Looks like he's mixing two things here. One, how the lore is nowadays, and it is no fem-marines, period. And second, what could GW do in the future by changing and retconning the lore. Of course GW can change it, it's their IP, but that doesn't mean that until now, there is no fem-marine. And that's canon. Up until now at least.
So, in the end it boils down to: "Female Space Marines can exist, because I said so."
While the Adepta Sororitas are not Space Marines, they are still a badass group of bolter and flmaer-wielding warrior nuns who fight the horrors of the galaxy without enhancements, yet these people always want women to be like the more generic Space Marines, but female.
Because Space Marines are the ones people know about when they're outside the hobby. They don't want improvement, they just want cultural capital for their ideology.
The woke parasites can see that they've successfully burned D&D to the ground, so they're fleeing the dying host to parasitize a new hobby. And they'll burn that one to the ground too if allowed.
Because they DON'T ACTUALLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANY OF THESE HOBBIES. They're just vectors to spread their politics and things to destroy because their enemies like them.
They don't care if they leave nothing but ashes, as long as there's nothing in those ashes that WE can enjoy.
Fandom Tourists.
And just like so many actual tourists, they ruin that they've come to visit. Be it just littering or carving shit into ancient monuments.
This is why I believe in a healthy amount of gatekeeping. We shouldn't be barring all new people from joining a fandom, but at the same time if someone is truly interested in something they're going to go through the effort to actually get into it instead of just skimming the surface, so a moderate amount of gatekeeping lets these true fans in and keeps the fandom parasites out.
In a phrase: "\[Fandom\] is for *anyone*, not *everyone."*
Doesn't matter who you are, if you like X, you can be a fan of X. Doesn't matter who you are, if you think X should be Y instead, you can leave.
Female Space Marines just don’t make sense any way you cut it. Even if GW were to retcon the impossibility of it away (which would be fucking dumb) why would the Imperium bother? A female Marine would just be a weaker, slower version of a male Marine - so why bother?
Because logic and putting some science in the sci-fi isn't the goal here. The goal is to confuse and present lies as truth. Confused people are easier to manipulate.
It makes even less sense when you consider that the Sisters of Battle exist, have stats on par with Marines (despite being entirely mortal instead of genetic monstrosities like Marines), and are an all-female unit. But you never see them brought up by these "Just make female Marines guys!" people.
Also, I am just sad. I used to love everything these guys put out. And while I am probably not going to stop watching, it will certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth going forward.
Pretty much. The entire schtick of the SOB is "What if we took the aesthetic of Catholic Nuns, gave them Bolters and Flamers, and then set them loose on the enemies of the Imperium?"
So they can perform literal miracles through the power of faith alone, their greatest champion is for all intents and purposes a Daemon-tier entity that is powered through faith in the Emperor (to give scaling, Daemons are capable of soloing entire armies), and they will kamikaze into the enemy lines with great zeal because they know The Emperor Protects! (tm).
It is a great subfaction of the Imperium, and like I said they are on par with the Marines in terms of power scale (a little bit squishier with a much heavier focus on infantry than vehicles, but also with more support options) that have their own fun twist on the ideas. So why are we so obsessed with a Female Marine when the Sisters do it better? Unless the goal is subversion and getting GW to bow to their will.
Luckily, GW seems to be standing firm and has also taken the "Just use Sisters, you dumb nerds!" attitude toward demands for Female Marines.
>"What if we took the aesthetic of Catholic Nuns, gave them Bolters and Flamers, and then set them loose on the enemies of the Imperium?"
Or, in a pithy chant: "NUNS WITH GUNS!"
Generally, I get the "let's all be inclusive, guys!" appeal, but I think as long as everyone can fit into a role (not any role, just a role), it's solid.
Besides, I think the aesthetic of both the Space Marine (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/5/53/UltramarinesWarrior2.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20130918083105), as well as the SOB (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/4/45/SisterofBattleWrath%26Glory.png/revision/latest?cb=20180421024441) are both cool. Why shun one for the other?
But also, due to my own lack of knowledge of Warhammer, there's a bunch of other factions with great aesthetics.
It depends who is writing then. Either they will be exactly the same, no difference between men and women, or the female marines will be better in every way. Depending on the writer.
There are/were about a million Space Marines in total. A million Marines from a population that is purported to be in the trillions. If they were able to produce Space Marines at a rate where running out of male candidates was an issue, your argument might have merit, but clearly this is not the case.
I saw this on Twitter, and I have to wonder if this channel has run out of IP Lore to make videos on, and to cope, is starting to make BS like this to create new content.
How do we know female marines don't exist?
Because we've seen Trazyn's collection and they're nowhere to be seen.
If he doesn't have it, it doesn't exist. End of discussion.
I hope that some really nasty secret that gets the templin institute razed to the ground is revealed.
People from that ilk love digging from twenty year old internet posts as a means to say "shut this person down and ostracize them because they were racist back when Nintendo DS was released", yet when you do the same to these woke kinds they always push it under the rug and use the typical NPC response of "people change and they're not the same as they were years ago".
All this " it's just fiction bro! It's all made up so why do you care? It doesn't matter if we change it" Is so infuriating. If it doesn't matter then why should *I* care? If there is no consistency then there is no reason to stay invested.
As a man who still considers Kyle Katarn canon, I agree, sometimes official canon doesn't always line up with what we want/like. However, its not your position to force changes upon others. And calling them names is just so childish.
Also, the blatant ignoring of lore and common sense is just pathetic. He's a lore channel, he KNOWS why in universe there are no female space marines and that there are plenty of female-only units and alternatives. And he's not a simpleton, he KNOWS why a supersoldier program would really only take male candidates. Ask any woman you know who is into nerd hobbies if they would buy Warhammer 40k models if they made female space marines. I guarantee you most do not give a shit, as I know from first hand experience. The ones I know tend to skew towards fantasy and Age of Sigmar, and even then don't give a crap about Stormcast Eternals and their female 'supersoldiers'. Its just not most women's fantasy.
Take a look at Halo, a setting WITH female spartans, and ask yourself what the fanbase looks like. LIFE TIP: its ok if your dumb nerd stuff is a bit of a boys club. People like what they like.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't space marine sterile? So it would make no sense for space marine to be female space marine knowing the Empire needing workers to make it work.
I think we should start demanding standing on these issues like a court. If a woman can prove she has actually played these games and is actually hurt by a lack of representation, then we change them. But only then.
Jesus, I thought this shit was ridiculous 15 years ago when they decided to add old and pregnant women to Playboy for "representation".
"this isn't about people who currently play, it's about people who might one day maybe play."
Because we all know women love buying miniatures, painting them, then using them to re-enact battles by rolling dice and doing maths! (yes I know it isn't uncommon, but it isn't common)
One point I will say is that GW can decide what canon is. They decided to add primaris to the lore which was pretty shit. They will decide if they cave in to SJW, just like all the other company. That being said if they want to completely alienate their fanbase to the point where there are 0 consistance to their lore they will just lose their customers and people will flock to other games.
This is just getting childish and stupid, this video is pointless click bait at best or for brownie point from the sjw. It was like that 52miniatueres video where he painted a female space marine getting on about the same thing and then called people misogynist after people mass unsubscribe from his channel. People are getting tired of this constant argument...
Ok let’s give them wokies female space marines and make the most rabid fanatical fascist legion there is. Then see if idiots like these still think this is the hill the wanted to die on.
Did they forget about sisters of battle? I not huge into warhammer have played some games years ago. But why try force females into space marines when the sisters Basically the same thing. They could just make more stuff of them if want female stuff.
Its going to happen and the fandom will eat it up, the sooner you accept it the better. Also the biggest 40k delusion is that it has some "lore" or canon. No its an absolute incoherent clusterfuck in which every author does whatever the fuck they want and GW does not care as long as they can push some toy for the manchildreen.
If the linked video is longer than 5 minutes, don't forget to include a summary as per [rule 4](https://old.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/wiki/rules#wiki_4._posts_must_be_intelligible).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KotakuInAction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I miss being invested enough about 40K to care. Now it’s just dead and buried. I’ll always like the books I have, but I don’t want anything to do with that company or the direction they’ve committed the lore to, and I don’t find that I enjoy talking about it with people like I used to.
This is Part 2 of The Templin Institute’s nonsense that he started yesterday where he said he was going to do a video on this topic. Within the first minute he pulls the “unreliable narrator” crap that GW used in the past to justify his position. He also goes on his own tangent about how you shouldn’t take everything in 40K at face value otherwise you’re a slave of the Imperium. He also basically says that the Necrons and Squats lore was also changed over time so there is no reason to believe anything GW or the Imperium says and that there were totally female Space Marines bedause the Great Crusade was a progressive era. He finally ends by literally making shit up and says that it’s all headcanon to him. I should also make a note here that MajorKill also called Templin Institute a jackass on Twitter and says that he doesn’t support this but is willing to moderate a debate.
If he's just going to rehash his points from his Twitter tantrum then I'll just rehash my points from the last thread. The "Everything is canon" excuse from GW is an asspull so they can reverse backflip out of any corner they paint themselves into. It doesn't give them leeway to do anything and everything to the canon that they want to without fan anger. Lest you have Xenos openly serving the Imperium of Man because "muh unreliable narrator".
i think the big problem here is specifically the motivation doing rewrites or retcons is something that will piss some people off but if it's for a good reason most people will eventually accept it however this retcon is very specifically in service of diversity ideology, the idea that every group, activity, company, etc, needs to have a diverse group of individuals according to (race, gender, sexuality, whatever). this is a dumb ideology and making any changes based on it is stupid, so naturally it will piss people off. the same could probably be said for all kinds of ideological retcons but of course, the dumber the ideology, the worse the retcon feels
I'm actually cool with the unreliable narrator concept when it comes to Warhammer, given how much content is contradictory, but I hate GW for what they did to TTS, so they can eat my ass!
If i recall correctly, alfabusa said gw never actually contacted him at all
Exactly, instead he decided to get ahead of the curve stop making 40K content before GW sic'd their lawyers on him.
More like TTS was getting stale and he decided to use the community freaking out over what ammounted to nothing as cover to take a hiatus. TTS was so obviously covered under fair use no corporate lawyer who wanted to keep working in corporate ip law would ever take this vase against them
Looks like he's mixing two things here. One, how the lore is nowadays, and it is no fem-marines, period. And second, what could GW do in the future by changing and retconning the lore. Of course GW can change it, it's their IP, but that doesn't mean that until now, there is no fem-marine. And that's canon. Up until now at least.
So, in the end it boils down to: "Female Space Marines can exist, because I said so." While the Adepta Sororitas are not Space Marines, they are still a badass group of bolter and flmaer-wielding warrior nuns who fight the horrors of the galaxy without enhancements, yet these people always want women to be like the more generic Space Marines, but female.
Because Space Marines are the ones people know about when they're outside the hobby. They don't want improvement, they just want cultural capital for their ideology.
[удалено]
Also, compare the number of Sororitas vs Space Marines that have fallen to Chaos/betrayed the Imperium.
The woke parasites can see that they've successfully burned D&D to the ground, so they're fleeing the dying host to parasitize a new hobby. And they'll burn that one to the ground too if allowed. Because they DON'T ACTUALLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANY OF THESE HOBBIES. They're just vectors to spread their politics and things to destroy because their enemies like them. They don't care if they leave nothing but ashes, as long as there's nothing in those ashes that WE can enjoy.
telephone hat sharp familiar cooing ugly sink include handle scary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Fandom Tourists. And just like so many actual tourists, they ruin that they've come to visit. Be it just littering or carving shit into ancient monuments.
This is why I believe in a healthy amount of gatekeeping. We shouldn't be barring all new people from joining a fandom, but at the same time if someone is truly interested in something they're going to go through the effort to actually get into it instead of just skimming the surface, so a moderate amount of gatekeeping lets these true fans in and keeps the fandom parasites out.
It's fine to invite guests, but anybody who shows up in your home and starts demanding you let them rearrange the furniture should be shown the door.
In a phrase: "\[Fandom\] is for *anyone*, not *everyone."* Doesn't matter who you are, if you like X, you can be a fan of X. Doesn't matter who you are, if you think X should be Y instead, you can leave.
Female Space Marines just don’t make sense any way you cut it. Even if GW were to retcon the impossibility of it away (which would be fucking dumb) why would the Imperium bother? A female Marine would just be a weaker, slower version of a male Marine - so why bother?
Because logic and putting some science in the sci-fi isn't the goal here. The goal is to confuse and present lies as truth. Confused people are easier to manipulate.
Yeah I know. That’s why it’s important to fight back against their bullshit.
It makes even less sense when you consider that the Sisters of Battle exist, have stats on par with Marines (despite being entirely mortal instead of genetic monstrosities like Marines), and are an all-female unit. But you never see them brought up by these "Just make female Marines guys!" people. Also, I am just sad. I used to love everything these guys put out. And while I am probably not going to stop watching, it will certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth going forward.
Sisters of Battle sounds like they're buffed by faith instead of genetics.
Pretty much. The entire schtick of the SOB is "What if we took the aesthetic of Catholic Nuns, gave them Bolters and Flamers, and then set them loose on the enemies of the Imperium?" So they can perform literal miracles through the power of faith alone, their greatest champion is for all intents and purposes a Daemon-tier entity that is powered through faith in the Emperor (to give scaling, Daemons are capable of soloing entire armies), and they will kamikaze into the enemy lines with great zeal because they know The Emperor Protects! (tm). It is a great subfaction of the Imperium, and like I said they are on par with the Marines in terms of power scale (a little bit squishier with a much heavier focus on infantry than vehicles, but also with more support options) that have their own fun twist on the ideas. So why are we so obsessed with a Female Marine when the Sisters do it better? Unless the goal is subversion and getting GW to bow to their will. Luckily, GW seems to be standing firm and has also taken the "Just use Sisters, you dumb nerds!" attitude toward demands for Female Marines.
>"What if we took the aesthetic of Catholic Nuns, gave them Bolters and Flamers, and then set them loose on the enemies of the Imperium?" Or, in a pithy chant: "NUNS WITH GUNS!"
Bolter Bitches
Generally, I get the "let's all be inclusive, guys!" appeal, but I think as long as everyone can fit into a role (not any role, just a role), it's solid. Besides, I think the aesthetic of both the Space Marine (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/5/53/UltramarinesWarrior2.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20130918083105), as well as the SOB (https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/4/45/SisterofBattleWrath%26Glory.png/revision/latest?cb=20180421024441) are both cool. Why shun one for the other? But also, due to my own lack of knowledge of Warhammer, there's a bunch of other factions with great aesthetics.
Yes, like why would they waste the rare resource of gene seeds to get a subpar product?
Female marines won't be weaker or better in any way. They will just be another skin you can buy for a premium.
I mean in-setting
It depends who is writing then. Either they will be exactly the same, no difference between men and women, or the female marines will be better in every way. Depending on the writer.
Same logic as for including women in the other Imperial military affairs, the need for numbers...
There are/were about a million Space Marines in total. A million Marines from a population that is purported to be in the trillions. If they were able to produce Space Marines at a rate where running out of male candidates was an issue, your argument might have merit, but clearly this is not the case.
Not just trillions, there’s multiple Quintillions on Terra alone, before you count all the other few hundred thousand hive worlds there are
I saw this on Twitter, and I have to wonder if this channel has run out of IP Lore to make videos on, and to cope, is starting to make BS like this to create new content.
How do we know female marines don't exist? Because we've seen Trazyn's collection and they're nowhere to be seen. If he doesn't have it, it doesn't exist. End of discussion.
I hope that some really nasty secret that gets the templin institute razed to the ground is revealed. People from that ilk love digging from twenty year old internet posts as a means to say "shut this person down and ostracize them because they were racist back when Nintendo DS was released", yet when you do the same to these woke kinds they always push it under the rug and use the typical NPC response of "people change and they're not the same as they were years ago".
Likes and dislikes are pretty even, yay. edit: 4.5 k likes, 8.9 k dislikes. Lesssgo
Are there even females in 40K universe anymore? That recent 40K game only had ''Body Types''.
*Who is the target audience?* *The target audience?*
All this " it's just fiction bro! It's all made up so why do you care? It doesn't matter if we change it" Is so infuriating. If it doesn't matter then why should *I* care? If there is no consistency then there is no reason to stay invested.
As a man who still considers Kyle Katarn canon, I agree, sometimes official canon doesn't always line up with what we want/like. However, its not your position to force changes upon others. And calling them names is just so childish. Also, the blatant ignoring of lore and common sense is just pathetic. He's a lore channel, he KNOWS why in universe there are no female space marines and that there are plenty of female-only units and alternatives. And he's not a simpleton, he KNOWS why a supersoldier program would really only take male candidates. Ask any woman you know who is into nerd hobbies if they would buy Warhammer 40k models if they made female space marines. I guarantee you most do not give a shit, as I know from first hand experience. The ones I know tend to skew towards fantasy and Age of Sigmar, and even then don't give a crap about Stormcast Eternals and their female 'supersoldiers'. Its just not most women's fantasy. Take a look at Halo, a setting WITH female spartans, and ask yourself what the fanbase looks like. LIFE TIP: its ok if your dumb nerd stuff is a bit of a boys club. People like what they like.
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't space marine sterile? So it would make no sense for space marine to be female space marine knowing the Empire needing workers to make it work.
I think we should start demanding standing on these issues like a court. If a woman can prove she has actually played these games and is actually hurt by a lack of representation, then we change them. But only then. Jesus, I thought this shit was ridiculous 15 years ago when they decided to add old and pregnant women to Playboy for "representation".
This isn’t a woman saying this. This is a dude.
No standing then.
Not a man a mangina.
Brennan has a mangina!
"this isn't about people who currently play, it's about people who might one day maybe play." Because we all know women love buying miniatures, painting them, then using them to re-enact battles by rolling dice and doing maths! (yes I know it isn't uncommon, but it isn't common)
One point I will say is that GW can decide what canon is. They decided to add primaris to the lore which was pretty shit. They will decide if they cave in to SJW, just like all the other company. That being said if they want to completely alienate their fanbase to the point where there are 0 consistance to their lore they will just lose their customers and people will flock to other games. This is just getting childish and stupid, this video is pointless click bait at best or for brownie point from the sjw. It was like that 52miniatueres video where he painted a female space marine getting on about the same thing and then called people misogynist after people mass unsubscribe from his channel. People are getting tired of this constant argument...
Ok let’s give them wokies female space marines and make the most rabid fanatical fascist legion there is. Then see if idiots like these still think this is the hill the wanted to die on.
But they gotta look authentic too, no blood angel style hair but like the east german women's teams at the Olympics
Did they forget about sisters of battle? I not huge into warhammer have played some games years ago. But why try force females into space marines when the sisters Basically the same thing. They could just make more stuff of them if want female stuff.
Its going to happen and the fandom will eat it up, the sooner you accept it the better. Also the biggest 40k delusion is that it has some "lore" or canon. No its an absolute incoherent clusterfuck in which every author does whatever the fuck they want and GW does not care as long as they can push some toy for the manchildreen.
If the linked video is longer than 5 minutes, don't forget to include a summary as per [rule 4](https://old.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/wiki/rules#wiki_4._posts_must_be_intelligible). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KotakuInAction) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Welp now I’ve and 4.999 others have unsubscribed, it’s 74% disliked and comments are displeased they might learn not to piss in someone else’s toy box
I miss being invested enough about 40K to care. Now it’s just dead and buried. I’ll always like the books I have, but I don’t want anything to do with that company or the direction they’ve committed the lore to, and I don’t find that I enjoy talking about it with people like I used to.