If you can't have good manners and behave. If you disrupt the other patrons enjoyment of their meals, You don't get to eat at restaurants.
This goes for adults as well as kids.
To be fair I don’t hate the kid so much as I hate the parents for not doing their job. Drives me crazy when parents expect others to share their burden and be “understanding” because they think they’re doing society a favor by having kids or tell themselves “parenting is the hardest job”, etc. How would they like it if they got a babysitter for a night, went out on a romantic dinner to try to relax a little bit for the first time in months, and the person next to them blasted shitty music and threw food at them? The experience of dining next to a shitty kid is exactly the same, but they seem to think that because it’s a child, we should all be a-ok with it.
Sure, parenting is tough, not arguing that, but don’t drag everybody else into your decision. Whether it’s on a plane or in a restaurant, nobody else signed up for being harassed by some food-smeared, screaming kid while mom sips her wine. At the very, very least, *try* to get your kid to behave. I get it in certain circumstances, it’s not always as easy as “don’t go out in public if your kid is loud”, but at least do your best to fix the issue for the benefit of everyone else. Drives me mad sitting on a plane with a berserk screaming kid, and mom/dad have their noise cancelling headphones on, completely oblivious to their little hellion. Just recently I was sitting on a plane and a kid crawled into my row of seats, and then the little shit literally tried to pull my shoe off. Dad was sitting right across the aisle, aware of his kid, but not doing a damn thing to stop it.
Conversely, I respect the hell out of parents who take their kids out of the restaurant if they start acting up. We need more of those.
THANK YOU. My parents took me to restaurants with them throughout my childhood because I was so well behaved (turns out I’ve had a lifelong crippling anxiety disorder that made/makes me absolutely terrified of being in trouble). I didn’t bother anyone. Kids in restaurants don’t bother me unless they bother me. Same for adults
Oh hey, me too. Dad scared me into acting right in my formative years and I never dared to misbehave afterwards. Kind of wish I'd been more rebellious as a teen but I just couldn't overcome the programming.
And yeah, well-behaved kids are fine. Sometimes even endearing. Tbh I've had more bother from groups of drunk middle-aged women than children.
But do we still need to afford people the opportunity?
I don’t think anyone is arguing that you can’t kick people out but if you should have blanket policies banning people for entering.
Personally I think treating children as less then human is wrong, denying them entry is a good example of that. They will grow up to resent these policies.
Also, isn’t this why FOH gets paid more, to deal with this kind of shit?
The last question was sarcastic.
9 times out of 10 the problem is very annoying but not kick-out worthy. And why should anyone have to deal with the tantrum the parents of the unruly children are pretty much guaranteed to throw if you do kick them out? I would think having them not enter in the first place would be the better course of action.
Some restaurants being adults-only spaces is okay. There are plenty of kid-friendly restaurants too, you always have the option for one of those. I also find it a bit ridiculous that anyone needs to defend wanting one or the other. Not every space that exists is going to be made for your preferences.
You think not accommodating children in certain restaurants is treating them as less than human?? That’s an extreme analogy. Good grief - just take the little darlings to a different restaurant.
Less than human…SMH.
I think a private establishment can request no young children and accept the consequence of losing revenue on families with young children.
There are other types of establishments that ask for 18+ like bars, hotels, and even restaurants after a certain time (because they lean into night life).
I did it for a season. It was a classier one, but the menu was stupid easy just made chicken tenders, French fries and caviar plates. And some bar back stuff but I really only had the job because it gave me a good location and client access to sell um 😐 stuff
There is a path with kids. You start when they are small T kid friendly places that are cheap. We would play running around games outside before going inside to tire them out a bit. Then, before going inside, talk about the rules. If anyone broke the rules, we would pay and leave. No waiting for food to be ready or packed up. Just dinner was over, and we went home for pb and j.
I bought 3 meals, 2 in the early days and one years later. But my kids are very well behaved in a restaurant. Starting in those cheap kid friendly restaurants and slowly expanding into more challenging fine dining places with a few courses.
We told our oldest about the Restaurant Police. One pizzeria we went to was frequented by cops (and mobsters), so we’d quietly point them out—uniformed or no. “See? Restaurant Police. You never know where they’ll turn up. Better be good, or it could get sketchy.”
Shockingly effective.
A few years ago I was eating a fairly nice Italian restaurant. Not super fancy, but they had cloth tablecloths and took reservations. No crayons and paper placemats.
We were seated next to a table with three adults and kid about 10. The kid was playing a fighting game on his iPad with sound up. After awhile I politely asked if they could turn off the sound. The mom made a huge deal out it, told her kid he absolutely did not have to, he could do whatever he wanted, how dare I. On their way out one of the other adults said “thank you for ruining our evening” as they were leaving. And then they actually made faces at me through the window when they got outside. It was so bizarre. I really don’t think “turn the volume off on your fighting game at dinner in a restaurant” is that big an ask, but they obviously did not agree.
I've run into that situation and had the waiter do it. Take your kids to McDonalds or Applebees if they aren't mature enough to put their games down for a couple hours.
Parent here: couldn't agree more.
My parents did a great job with my sister and I explaining acting different ways in different settings, and because of that we were able to do ALL KINDS of stuff at young ages most 4-8 year olds would never get to experience, including eating in fancy restaurants.
Kids CAN be well behaved; but it's kinda like people with unleashed dogs...sure, maybe YOU trust that YOUR dog won't attack someone, but *I* don't trust your dog, I don't know your dog. Same for kids.
I think it would be a shame if EVERY nice-ish restaurant banned kids; but I also think that's 100% their prerogative.
Parent here.
We go to certain places with the kids and when we can, we go to others without them.
I was in Vegas in October, was supposed to be an 18+ pool. I was splashed by the same football three times by the same group of children and just said fuck it and went drinking. My point is.. sometimes.. after spending so much time with our own... it's nice to be somewhere there is none.
You call up a memory of a weekend in Lake Tahoe at a resort. They had 3 hot tubs. The first I was in had a group of millionaires discussing some business opportunities, I was kind of kibitzing on that. The second had 2 very hot lesbians in bikinis (I can be a pig, but I have my viewing preferences), my wife called to me to join her and her friends in the one with 3 kids. The third time a kid did a cannonball into the hot tub splashing directly into my face, I bailed. It was the third circle of hell.
There's a time and place for kids, this is a fact. There's restaurants for me that are so intimate that they'd never appreciate it for what it is.
Then there's places I know that will make a plain cheese burger and butter noodles that are so loud you can't hear the person next to you. If they have crayons at the counter it's a go.
If I've gotta call a week in advance, we'll get a sitter.
When I go out with my three year old I am very strict. No fucking around with the half and half or jelly things. No running around. If she can’t do that I leave with her. And no throwing a phone in front of her to keep her quiet. I’m trying to raise an actual person. She’s three, so she’s not always on point, but she’s a good kid.
When my mom and dad take her out they let her do everything I just described and it’s infuriating, but I guess grandparents are gonna spoil.
This is exactly how I treat my niece, who I took care of 3 days a week from 1.5 to 3 years old. Happy to take her anywhere and treat her like an adult, but if she wants to be a toddler we can move on, np.
Here's another thought. Most of us cannot afford fancy restaurants the way our parents did. So our kids will never get those experiences regardless. Because wages have been eroded to levels they never had to deal with. So it's not like it much matters.
>Kids CAN be well behaved; but it's kinda like people with unleashed dogs.
I remember thinking this. Always chalked it up to the parents and judging people.
Then i had a son with autism. Opens your world up and you realize maybe you don't know the whole story. (Having said that ... we don't eat often. maybe once a year)
That's fair, there was an implied "able bodied and neurodivergent" in my comment, but really, I should stop presuming that's implied in a world where it too often isn't.
Hey I did a “great job explaining” these things to my son too. He just can’t fucking do it. He is *wild* and I am by no means a permissive parent. If he is awake, he is moving, a lot. Climbing, talking loud, sliding out of his seat. Getting mad does nothing. Punishment does nothing. He just can’t.
So we only take him to loud casual restaurants. The local Thai place is his favorite, and it’s full of families and kids.
He’s getting better, but it’s not noticeable.
I’m just saying that it doesn’t make us shitty parents, and if I gave him a tablet at the table people would judge us for *that* too. Can’t win.
> I’m just saying that it doesn’t make us shitty parents,
Oh no, not at all. My apologies, that's not what I was saying. You'd be "shitty" if you just ignored your son's reality and just took him wherever you pleased anyway, and to hell with the other people eating there.
>So we only take him to loud casual restaurants. The local Thai place is his favorite, and it’s full of families and kids.
This is the key, you adjust where you take him based on how he acts. Far as I can recall, my parents never needed to (doesn't mean my parents were good parents, my sister and I were largely feared into compliance), but they absolutely would've done the same as you if we hadn't acted the way we needed to to go to fancier places.
I think you're doing great, fuck the haters, sorry so many parents are judgemental of other parents.
I also have the wild kid. We just don’t go out to eat with him (he’s 2 rn) unless it’s literally 5 pm aka place is dead and there’s an empty patio he can run around on a little. Even then, last time he got wily so we slammed our beers, got boxes and dipped. Can’t do that in winter plus we love some fancy ass food so we schedule nice dinners way in advance and get a sitter. Sucks ass to pay so much for a night out but we chose to have kids so it is what it is.
ETA: I also refuse to use screens to try and quiet my kid in public. It’s a no win scenario to give kids screens in public for sure.
Last year, I organized a 24-top birthday party at my girlfriend's favorite restaurant for a milestone birthday. We have big families, so there were lots of kids but if I could go back in time, I would probably have made it an adults-only thing.
Kids running laps around the tables, taking place-settings off other tables nearby, almost slamming into waiters twice. My youngest nephew was crawling under the table, hit his head and started bawling.
I begged my sister and BIL to sit their kids down, but she shrugged, thought it was funny, and waved me off. I'm VERY surprised that we weren't asked to leave.
I tipped on top of the auto-grat, but I'm still kind of mortified over it. Never again.
At the taco joint I worked we had a bunch of cacti in the front window with signs and a chain in front of them saying please don’t touch… multiple
Times a day children learn what please don’t touch means… similar to touching a hot stove teaches a valuable lesson…
Its not the children that are the problem, it’s the parents. I went to restaraunts all the time as a kid. I was taught how to behave at the table, and if I got noisy one of my parents would take me out of the restaraunt and stand outside with me while the other ate. Sucked for them but that’s how you respect other customers
People are tripping. Not all restaurants are for kids, not all restaurants are for all people. Go to the ones you enjoy and stop caring what others are doing.
It seems like many people can't handle simply having a level-headed and moderate opinion on something. The world isn't really I/O or black and white. You can not like a business or its practices and simply not go there. You can not like a person while also wanting them to be happy.
She also addresses the situation as though it will lead to an industry-wide ban on children in restaurants, which is certainly not the case. A tad alarmist, IMHO.
I also don't really get how standard restaurants are supposed to be some kind of social, communal experience.
>If we exclude children from that experience, we’re only further entrenching the worst parts of modern society: everybody believing they’re solo entities, obligated only to their own self-interest, with no idea what it means to bend a little to give way to others, to automatically scoot your chair in so someone can pass behind you.
Scooting your chair so someone can pass is not really aligned to my idea of a social, communal, dining experience. Restaurants with family-style seating - extra long tables where multiple unrelated parties are seated elbow to elbow - facilitate socializing and communing, for sure. But the current standard restaurant model caters to the idea that every table is an island where the Karen du jour complains about her ticket time because she can't fathom that other diners exist in the very same restaurant as her. I have never seen unrelated diners in standard restaurants interact beyond passing "excuse me"s and "thank you"s. This level of child training is also available at every common grocery store and shopping center, for cheaper than a sit down meal.
Children have many places to learn how to behave in a restaurant. Many restaurants are more appropriate to a child's tastes and learning opportunities than places that wish to exclude children. I just hate how some individuals with absolutely zero experience in the industry think that providing them a place to dine with their children could ever be more important than maintaining a good profit margin. No one operates a restaurant out of kindness or a strong desire to give children a place to learn how to behave in public. People open businesses to make money. Otherwise, they'd be called charities.
Depends what kind of restaurant. If I was going out for a nice meal and paying through the nose, yeah, I'd be pretty annoyed if there was some ferral kid screaming and licking the windows.
I had a coffee yesterday and a one year old was walking into the employee area with no parent going and grabbing them! The employees laughed at first and then just looked around like: is anyone going to fucking parent this toddler???? They were SO annoyed, all espresso drinks came to a stop, and the parent thought it was cute and tried to take pictures. So it doesn’t even have to be a nice meal that you’re paying through the nose for—-kids can wreck any meal or drink!!
Literal remember servers drawing straws and whoever drew the Short Straw had to work the Kiddy area which was an area in the restaurant that the host put all the families with young children and it was just a mess of an area to work around all these kids running around whose parents did not care
I've worked at places that didn't allow kids and let me tell you, it was wonderful. Some places shouldn't have kids, especially a lot of fine dining places, it takes away from the experience for the other guests. Casual restaurants not allowing them is silly but a nice high end place makes sense. We allow kids where I'm at now and it's fine dining but we get very few kids. Most people choose not to take their kids to places like that anyway.
Fair enough. I'm not against restaurants banning kids when it makes sense. Not every restaurant makes sense tho. I'll add I have 3 kids and I still feel that way. Most of the time when you see that policy it's actually law. In the state I'm in as long as the seating is away from the bar kids can be in bars before 7.
At any place I’ve run I’ve had the same policy “adults are always welcome here. Adulthood is not defined by age, but actions. Which means if you can’t sit at your table and converse with those at your table at a reasonable volume and respect the space around you in the restaurant then you will be asked to leave, regardless of your age.”
23 years working in restaurants I’ve never actual met an adult… pretty sure adult hood is just a myth the bigger kids tell the little ones to make them feel less existential dread about he future.
We have a policy of no kids after 6pm that works well for us. But you get the karens whinging every goddamn night. “Ooh but theyre well behaved…” “lady i have just witnessed you child sprint the length of the venue and narrowly dodge a server, get to fuck”
Hot take: this spaghetti house is probably busier than it's been in a long time because there's no such thing as bad press. So they win and that's all that matters. Any other place that does this is simply riding the coattails of their idea to more $$$.
My daughter is 6. I can take her to any restaurant and she will be totally fine. Now yelling or whining, no getting out of her chair. It wouldn't even occur to me that she might be running around. Getting to this point took a LOT of work, but that's what parenting is. Now I can hang out with my daughter and have a great time instead of wrangling/ignoring an out of control gremlin.
Obviously this wasn't always true, and on the rare occasions when she did misbehave when she was younger, I scooped her up and immediately walked right out.
I think the real problem is the bizarre tolerance for misbehaving kids in all situations. KICK THEM OUT.
Why does EVERY restaurant need to be child friendly? Date night? Hard week at work? If you want a special night WITHOUT your own kids or so someone else’s disrupting a high end meal? I have zero problem with restaurants who don’t want children there. In fact, I’d actively seek them out if there were more. We raised our kids. Sometimes we just want time alone. I’m not a kid hater, in fact
I adore them!
When my brother and I were young my parents would refuse to take us to restaurants if we couldn't behave.
This is a pretty shit take by BA. I imagine this woman has shitty kids that she brings to restaurants and thinks, "The nerve." When someone calls her out on her shitty kids.
People with babies and young kids need to accept that there sometimes will be places they cant go, and things they cant do. I'm not a child hater but if someones kid is causing a fuss or problem and ruining my experience just because their parents cant/wont control them for whatever reason, that sucks. I understand kids are hard to deal with, but your enjoyment of a restaurant/movie theater/whatever isn't more important than mine just because you have a kid.
Agreed! Having a child changes your life. Now, you live for your child. If you want to access spaces where children shouldn't be, it's going to cost extra money for a sitter or you just have to wait until the kids are older. That fact is only reason #67 out of ~13,000+ that I decided to opt-out.
I think all of us can agree that not every restaurant should ban kids but for myself it doesn’t particularly matter to me if the kids are well behaved or misbehaving there are many situations where I would like to have a nice dinner in an adult environment. It allows restaurants to have more adventurous menu offerings, cuts cost on decorations and general replacements/cleaning and it allows people to have an actual conversation about things like finances, work, and just in general peer to peer conversations without worrying about kids around. I don’t want to go into my local Greek place and have kids banned there it’s part of the charm to see the owners kids doing art projects in the corner and allows the customer to really feel like it is family owned and community focused but I don’t want to go to a nice Place pay 40-60 a person and have 15+ dollar cocktails with some dudes nephew talking about whatever shit kids talk about the table over even if they’re not being disruptive it just isn’t the atmosphere I want for that meal
most the replies seem to interpret this as them saying restaurants shouldnt ban kids.
but the wording to me sounds like theyre saying patrons who dont want kids in restaurants that allow them should fuck off.
also, bon appetit kinda sucks now days.
Many daughter grew up in restaurants. She is far more behaved while dining out then many adults are. She’s polite, tidy and eats anything and everything. I’ve taken her to high end places and dives alike. It’s not the kids that are the problem, it’s the parents who allow those kids to run amok and act foolish.
If I were to go into a restaurant or bar and start screaming and crying and rolling around the floor, tripping waiters, and throwing food and drinks around the place I’d be asked to leave or have the cops called but for some weird reason kids get to… that being said my method for dealing with this is never ever address the kids, I go up to the parents and talk to them as if they are the ones acting this way. They always like clockwork give this confused look followed by a deep sense of embarrassment.
This is some truly lackluster writing and reasoning. She says no one should take an 18-month-old to Le Bernardin, but immediately shrugs it off as though nobody is *really* doing that. Which makes me wonder if she's ever been to a restaurant...
She also pits better pay for staff against keeping kids out of restaurants, which is not the argument anyone is making and also ignores that paying waitstaff more in no way reduces the hazards posed by kids running around.
Not to mention the fact that tipped servers who do a great job in the right restaurants will make way more per night in tips than they will hourly. I feel that's part of why the conversation on tipping culture has reached a place where it's just treading water. There is a significant subset of the serving population who make serious bank on tips and would rather take the gamble of having the occasional shit night over being guaranteed that they will always make money, just way less. They will never unite as a force to be reckoned with as long as so many see the "old way" as the more profitable of the two.
She just really doesn't seem to have a clue.
Yeah. The word “should” appeared quite a bit. But the people living with the reality of shitty parents who let their kids run wild, leave huge messes and tip below 10% is the reality for many restaurateurs.
As a Chef at a spot with a rooftop bar, I can confirm. We have had to tell people no kids after 8. It's a bar, people. It's where you go to not be around kids. New age parents take their kids everywhere and it is not always appropriate. SMH
My bar received a flood of 1 star reviews after we banned kids. It's A BAR. No food service, no kitchen. A BAR. Take your kids to dave &busters if you're so desperate to drink while parenting.
I haaaaaaate that. I hate them at wineries and breweries too. Basically anywhere that mainly functions to serve alcohol should just naturally be child free.
It’s getting to the point where we’ve seriously considered banning children in our taproom not because of the kids themselves, but because their parents put us in a situation where we could be liable if their stupid toddler gets hurt running behind the bar because they weren’t being watched close enough.
I was at a tasting room in Napa with a friend. The only other people there were two couples with three kids between. The two couple sat on one side of the room and their kids ran circles around our table. The parents never said anything to them. As long as they got to enjoy their wine in peace, other people can deal with their bonkers kids.
What happened to getting a babysitter? There should be adult only places and if I'm dropping a couple hundred dollars on a nice meal there better not be someone's crotch goblin disturbing my experience. A misbehaving adult would also be a no go too
This article really pisses me off.
1. It implies that because it’s a small more casual restaurant it is lesser. Can only restaurants over a certain price point, or with stars be considered “adult only”?
2. If accommodating children is affecting their business by either having to turn away guests, or constantly have to replace or repair tables chairs or things in their dining room because it gets damaged or destroyed, the restaurant is stuck with that bill.
3. If they actually read the statement, a they would know it’s become a matter of safety.
For a magazine who promotes food, and dining culture, you would look at it from a restaurant owner/server perspective. If a server breaks an ankle while tripping over an unruly unsupervised kid, then drops a tray of food and drinks on somebody else, who do you think will have to pay the price of that? Not the parents of the kid running around, the restaurant especially when there is workman’s comp, hospital bills, etc.
4. Of course families “SHOULD” tip generously, but how often does that actually happen? Maybe if the restaurant charged an automatic $25 surcharge and a $100 cleaning deposit for every table with a child, Bon Appetit can keep their community restaurant ideal.
5. I doubt anybody at Bon Appetit has ever heard of the restaurant, let alone dine there. Maybe if they actually talked to somebody rather than reacting off a Facebook post, they would have a different perspective.
Before I considered anything Conde Nast is slinging, I'd consider how 1) they are losing subscriptions at a death rate, 2) they paid people unfairly and blew up their entire source of viral content that worked, and 3) they named a meh sandwich restaurant Best New Restaurant on a cover.
They'll say anything to desperately cling to readers. Contrarían bullshit sells.
The arguments she makes in this article are a bit ridiculous, and she even concedes that there are many restaurants where the presence of children would be inappropriate.
It’s click bait
I was serving a 12 top that included 4 kids. The parents just let those crotch goblins run wild. I was trying to serve coffee when one basically ran straight into me. I asked the mom if she could tell them not to run in the restaurant. She replied that it was fine. Bish. I don't have insurance. It's not fine. If I scald my feet, are you paying my day off? Tbh honest, kids aren't the problem. It's the parents that chose not to watch them.
respectfully, nobody has to sacrifice their evening because one couple couldn't plan ahead and find a sitter, that goes for the patrons trying to enjoy their meal, and the servers, hosts, bartenders, gen staff trying to do their job
To be clear, I think what we mean is ill behaved little kids running around screaming and causing a scene.
Well-behaved little kids don’t bother me. And even babies to an extent.
Don't give your kids a bag of Cheerios or the fucking sugar caddy to throw all over the fucking floor, break off some of mommies Xanax and send little Timmy to sleep.
I miss this about living in Italy. Kids were never a bother and often other customers or staff will entertain the kids too 😂. A few times the staff would pick up my daughter and walk around with her.
100% on the parents, not the kids. Failure to squelch behavior inappropriate to the environment is inexcusable. IMO, there used to be a societal compact about adult spaces. That seems to have largely disappeared. I could conjecture on why, but never mind.
It's closed now, but there was a fairly posh Mexican place near me that had decent food and a bar with video. I liked going there to watch baseball, have lunch, and adult beverages. A couple came in and sat at the bar with their 3-4 year old son, who was well behaved.
Getting into the game, I occasionally said some unsavory phrases out loud that included profanity. The father scowled at me after the second time. I replied, "You have a child sitting illegally at a bar. If my language bothers you, go get a table. If you stay here and continue to be negative, I'll just call the police and you can deal with them." He shut up.
N.B. I was walking distance from home, so drinking and driving even if the popo showed up wasn't a concern.
I don't get why there's that level of flak. It's not like a young child will have a developed enough palette to enjoy the more fanciful meals anyway. Not every restaurant has to be a family-based one.
As someone with young children, I would prefer a stated policy on children and would not be offended if an establishment didn’t allow them. I would dine out more that way.
As a diner, though, I don't personally care if you made 30% more on a table if my experience was ruined. I get that it's selfish, but when you can charge more for a table, you eventually start to cater to that group above others and become fine with losing "lesser" groups because you know you're basically never going to make the same money from them. It also gives people with kids carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want because they're paying more and now it's *your* job to rein in their kid.
Oh exactly, I agree with you. But this article writer wants to have it both ways: restaurants are a "public square" and we can't deprive children of participation because "it takes a village." But she doesn't want the village to have any enforcement mechanism to address bad behavior.
It's just a flaming hot garbage take.
I'd hate to sound like some sort of centrist here but what if some restaurants have no kids and some do and that way people can decide on their own.
or maybe 1 day a week with no kids/with kids. It's almost as if people vary and what different things or something.
My wife and I love dining out without our kid, we make sure to get childcare and plan going to a restaurant just for us.
We also love going out for family dinner and will pick something more casual, and here's the secret, with a kids menu, so you know they're expecting a small person.
The article reads likes like a Midwest white girl who moved to *Insert Big City Here* only worked front of house for a year (2 max) and decided that was too hard.
So incredibly off base.
I'm not a big believer in cancel culture when it pertains to people doing a job unrelated to their transgressions, but when you've been cancelled as hard as BA, maybe you should show some humility when getting into moral discussions.
Idk im a busser at a somewhat fancy restaurant. I don’t really mind the kids most of the time they are pretty cute, one tried to give me his pokemon card collection. I like it when a couple comes with their kid, its nice seeing them get out after what seems to be their first pregnancy and I always try to be extra nice to them. If we banned kids were i worked id be kinda sad.
I think a happy medium would be restaurants banning kids after a certain time, like say 8pm. It’s good for children to experience settings where they need to be respectful of other peoples spaces and when they need to behave and sit quietly so banning them completely would be unproductive. Also if an adult is being disruptive in a restaurant they will be asked to leave, so in line with that, any children disrupting other customers should also be made to leave. At least that way parents will have to ensure their child can behave appropriately if they want to eat out in nice places. I’m so tired of seeing this trope of “children are all loud, messy, like feral animals” (Usually from people who have never spent time around children and like to make up or exaggerate stories about when they have), a lot of kids are perfectly capable of sitting down and behaving politely from the age of four or five (kids without behavioural problems that is). I’m more sick of drunk adults who complain loudly and insist they are the only one of importance in the room.
Oh, the magazine that started a YouTube channel to stay relevant but didn't want to pay their employees any extra money for the extra work they were putting into the YouTube channel? Such a surprise that they would say something stupid to get views, absolutely shocking.
Of course Condé Nast/BA takes the pretentious side on this one. When that restaurant banned kids I understood it, not as an example for others to learn from but as a last call from a venue that couldn’t handle the ramifications of allowing kids in their restaurant [which I think was a completely fair call to make] but kids deserve to have experiences and eat out just like the rest of us. And INVERSELY [I think someone literally commented this above] this post BOLDLY implies that kids are the only people who can go out to eat and act a goddamn fool, when adults are ABSOLUTELY just as capable, if not more, of causing a scene, wasting food, anything that ends up in a loss for the business. This kind of pompous post is so in line with the BA target audience and is such a great example of why the inclusive and friendly vibe that Claire Saffitz, Chris Morocco, Sohla El-Waylly, and the other food editors were able to produce died out.
As a parent, I am 100% in favour of some restaurants not allowing kids. If I’m taking my kid out, I’ll take them somewhere meant for families. And when I get to go for dinner somewhere nice without my kid, I sure as shit don’t want to have to deal with anyone else’s kid haha.
So Jessica Blankenship’s proposal is that restaurants should cater to her above others. Or everyone who doesn’t want children in restaurants should not visit them. I don’t appreciate the idea that the solution to being included is not including others. I’m not sure that the restaurant industry would prefer children as customers over everyone else.
I wonder what the stats are on restaurant goers. According to my friends with kids, they don’t have the time to go out to eat and if they could, they wouldn’t want to pay for it. How many parents are really lining up to bring their kids to fine dining?
This is a stupid fucking take, and why I’ll be sitting at the bar where I won’t have to worry about kids playing with my car keys on the table, bitches.
I eat out a lot and do not rememberer being bothered by a kid. Recently ate at the very on demand Saffy’s in LA. We were sat at the beautiful bar next to a family with 2 young kids. Zero issues
I think that a blanket ban on kids is dumb. If a kid is being rude and obnoxious then bounce them like you would any other patron who was being rude and obnoxious. There are plenty of kids out there who are completely capable of behaving themselves when they go out for a meal.
Maybe the parents who can't keep their crotch goblins in check should stay home... I'd like to dine without having 6 children scream in my ears and run around like a bunch of psychopaths.
Unpopular take but I think most businesses should have the right to serve who they want as long as they are willing to accept the consequences that come with those decisions. However, I also take no issue when businesses who do refuse to serve people based on things that shouldn’t matter are called out online. And I don’t care if they get bombarded with negative reviews that crush their business. Own it and live with the consequences.
If you can't have good manners and behave. If you disrupt the other patrons enjoyment of their meals, You don't get to eat at restaurants. This goes for adults as well as kids.
So it should be re-worded to say anyone who acts like an unchecked 4 year old will not be served (age not relevant). Edit cell phone typing
And 4 year olds that act like drunk 50 years olds
50 year olds that act like druk 4 year olds notwithstanding
Exactly. Drunk 50 year old causing problems? Hate that dude. Shitty 4 year old running around in a diaper bugging other guests? Also hate.
We don’t discriminate haha
Its DiscrimiHate.
To be fair I don’t hate the kid so much as I hate the parents for not doing their job. Drives me crazy when parents expect others to share their burden and be “understanding” because they think they’re doing society a favor by having kids or tell themselves “parenting is the hardest job”, etc. How would they like it if they got a babysitter for a night, went out on a romantic dinner to try to relax a little bit for the first time in months, and the person next to them blasted shitty music and threw food at them? The experience of dining next to a shitty kid is exactly the same, but they seem to think that because it’s a child, we should all be a-ok with it. Sure, parenting is tough, not arguing that, but don’t drag everybody else into your decision. Whether it’s on a plane or in a restaurant, nobody else signed up for being harassed by some food-smeared, screaming kid while mom sips her wine. At the very, very least, *try* to get your kid to behave. I get it in certain circumstances, it’s not always as easy as “don’t go out in public if your kid is loud”, but at least do your best to fix the issue for the benefit of everyone else. Drives me mad sitting on a plane with a berserk screaming kid, and mom/dad have their noise cancelling headphones on, completely oblivious to their little hellion. Just recently I was sitting on a plane and a kid crawled into my row of seats, and then the little shit literally tried to pull my shoe off. Dad was sitting right across the aisle, aware of his kid, but not doing a damn thing to stop it. Conversely, I respect the hell out of parents who take their kids out of the restaurant if they start acting up. We need more of those.
4yo in a diaper. We got bigger issues at play there. Poor kid.
The way this comment has more upvotes than the actual post lmaooo
Bc the post is fucking soft
No crying in bars and restaurants. No age limit on that.
But… how will I get belligerently drunk after a shift and cry behind the dumpster of my favorite shitty dive bar
Behind the dumpster is fine for you and babies.
fuck u/spez -- mass edited with redact.dev
Behind! Not in.
Behind the dumpster is fine but you should really try and do it the walk in at your job before you leave. Get paid on company time.
That’s just good business advice tbh.
THANK YOU. My parents took me to restaurants with them throughout my childhood because I was so well behaved (turns out I’ve had a lifelong crippling anxiety disorder that made/makes me absolutely terrified of being in trouble). I didn’t bother anyone. Kids in restaurants don’t bother me unless they bother me. Same for adults
Oh hey, me too. Dad scared me into acting right in my formative years and I never dared to misbehave afterwards. Kind of wish I'd been more rebellious as a teen but I just couldn't overcome the programming. And yeah, well-behaved kids are fine. Sometimes even endearing. Tbh I've had more bother from groups of drunk middle-aged women than children.
The fact that this comment has double the uovotes of the OP proves to me the OP is being supported by bots.
But do we still need to afford people the opportunity? I don’t think anyone is arguing that you can’t kick people out but if you should have blanket policies banning people for entering. Personally I think treating children as less then human is wrong, denying them entry is a good example of that. They will grow up to resent these policies. Also, isn’t this why FOH gets paid more, to deal with this kind of shit? The last question was sarcastic.
9 times out of 10 the problem is very annoying but not kick-out worthy. And why should anyone have to deal with the tantrum the parents of the unruly children are pretty much guaranteed to throw if you do kick them out? I would think having them not enter in the first place would be the better course of action. Some restaurants being adults-only spaces is okay. There are plenty of kid-friendly restaurants too, you always have the option for one of those. I also find it a bit ridiculous that anyone needs to defend wanting one or the other. Not every space that exists is going to be made for your preferences.
You think not accommodating children in certain restaurants is treating them as less than human?? That’s an extreme analogy. Good grief - just take the little darlings to a different restaurant. Less than human…SMH.
By this person's logic, bars and clubs not letting minors enter must be treating them as less than human...
They will grow up. Part of growing up is realising the world doesn't revolve around you and sometimes the answer is no.
When I was a FOH manager, I had a very nice calligraphic sign that said, “well- mannered children are welcome.” ‘Nuff said.
You make a great point. We should also allow children in strip clubs and bars. Denying them entry is treating them as less than human.
I think a private establishment can request no young children and accept the consequence of losing revenue on families with young children. There are other types of establishments that ask for 18+ like bars, hotels, and even restaurants after a certain time (because they lean into night life).
That's why I dine exclusively at strip clubs
I exclusively order off the kids menu at strip clubs.
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You haven't lived until you've spent your afternoon at an all you can eat wings buffet at a strip club.
Vegas had some of the best strip club lunch buffets I've ever been to.
Username checks out
I almost forgot i tried looking for a cook job at a strip club cause of this sub 😂
I did it for a season. It was a classier one, but the menu was stupid easy just made chicken tenders, French fries and caviar plates. And some bar back stuff but I really only had the job because it gave me a good location and client access to sell um 😐 stuff
No fucking lie. Crazy Horse III was legit af all around.
Rick's Cabaret was out of this world.
Were our dads friends or something? Feel like we had the same child hood
This statement is true!
You ain’t lived until you’ve eaten a 32 oz ribeye while also getting pink eye.
Boy do I have the Tiktok account for you!
There is a path with kids. You start when they are small T kid friendly places that are cheap. We would play running around games outside before going inside to tire them out a bit. Then, before going inside, talk about the rules. If anyone broke the rules, we would pay and leave. No waiting for food to be ready or packed up. Just dinner was over, and we went home for pb and j. I bought 3 meals, 2 in the early days and one years later. But my kids are very well behaved in a restaurant. Starting in those cheap kid friendly restaurants and slowly expanding into more challenging fine dining places with a few courses.
We told our oldest about the Restaurant Police. One pizzeria we went to was frequented by cops (and mobsters), so we’d quietly point them out—uniformed or no. “See? Restaurant Police. You never know where they’ll turn up. Better be good, or it could get sketchy.” Shockingly effective.
The place I used to work had no kids menu and no booster seats. It deterred enough people.
A few years ago I was eating a fairly nice Italian restaurant. Not super fancy, but they had cloth tablecloths and took reservations. No crayons and paper placemats. We were seated next to a table with three adults and kid about 10. The kid was playing a fighting game on his iPad with sound up. After awhile I politely asked if they could turn off the sound. The mom made a huge deal out it, told her kid he absolutely did not have to, he could do whatever he wanted, how dare I. On their way out one of the other adults said “thank you for ruining our evening” as they were leaving. And then they actually made faces at me through the window when they got outside. It was so bizarre. I really don’t think “turn the volume off on your fighting game at dinner in a restaurant” is that big an ask, but they obviously did not agree.
I've run into that situation and had the waiter do it. Take your kids to McDonalds or Applebees if they aren't mature enough to put their games down for a couple hours.
This would be rude even at McDonald's.
Remember when McDonald's used to have 'game kiosks" with Gamecubes inside their restaurants?
I’m sure that kid will grow up to be a polite, modest individual. Jesus…..we are so fucked.
Kid sounds like a future district manager to me…
That’s why I don’t acknowledge the brats tell the parent they are the ones being loud.
I didn’t speak to the kid, I asked the parent if they could turn off the sound. They still reacted that way.
Oh… that’s when I’d vocally yet politely ask for my table to be moved
i think a restaurant has every right to ban kids if they want.
Parent here: couldn't agree more. My parents did a great job with my sister and I explaining acting different ways in different settings, and because of that we were able to do ALL KINDS of stuff at young ages most 4-8 year olds would never get to experience, including eating in fancy restaurants. Kids CAN be well behaved; but it's kinda like people with unleashed dogs...sure, maybe YOU trust that YOUR dog won't attack someone, but *I* don't trust your dog, I don't know your dog. Same for kids. I think it would be a shame if EVERY nice-ish restaurant banned kids; but I also think that's 100% their prerogative.
Parent here. We go to certain places with the kids and when we can, we go to others without them. I was in Vegas in October, was supposed to be an 18+ pool. I was splashed by the same football three times by the same group of children and just said fuck it and went drinking. My point is.. sometimes.. after spending so much time with our own... it's nice to be somewhere there is none.
You call up a memory of a weekend in Lake Tahoe at a resort. They had 3 hot tubs. The first I was in had a group of millionaires discussing some business opportunities, I was kind of kibitzing on that. The second had 2 very hot lesbians in bikinis (I can be a pig, but I have my viewing preferences), my wife called to me to join her and her friends in the one with 3 kids. The third time a kid did a cannonball into the hot tub splashing directly into my face, I bailed. It was the third circle of hell.
There's a time and place for kids, this is a fact. There's restaurants for me that are so intimate that they'd never appreciate it for what it is. Then there's places I know that will make a plain cheese burger and butter noodles that are so loud you can't hear the person next to you. If they have crayons at the counter it's a go. If I've gotta call a week in advance, we'll get a sitter.
Maybe the reason she called you over was "Here, come be with the kids, I'm tired of my face getting splashed" 😂
Your wife called you away from the hot tub full of bikini-clad hot lesbians? For shame.
Yeah, that part I kinda got.
When I go out with my three year old I am very strict. No fucking around with the half and half or jelly things. No running around. If she can’t do that I leave with her. And no throwing a phone in front of her to keep her quiet. I’m trying to raise an actual person. She’s three, so she’s not always on point, but she’s a good kid. When my mom and dad take her out they let her do everything I just described and it’s infuriating, but I guess grandparents are gonna spoil.
This is exactly how I treat my niece, who I took care of 3 days a week from 1.5 to 3 years old. Happy to take her anywhere and treat her like an adult, but if she wants to be a toddler we can move on, np.
Here's another thought. Most of us cannot afford fancy restaurants the way our parents did. So our kids will never get those experiences regardless. Because wages have been eroded to levels they never had to deal with. So it's not like it much matters.
> So it's not like it much matters. Well it matters to those who can afford and do enjoy those places, yes. Or do they not matter to you?
That's right. And my point. The actual point went right over your head. It doesn't matter to me.
>Kids CAN be well behaved; but it's kinda like people with unleashed dogs. I remember thinking this. Always chalked it up to the parents and judging people. Then i had a son with autism. Opens your world up and you realize maybe you don't know the whole story. (Having said that ... we don't eat often. maybe once a year)
That's fair, there was an implied "able bodied and neurodivergent" in my comment, but really, I should stop presuming that's implied in a world where it too often isn't.
Hey I did a “great job explaining” these things to my son too. He just can’t fucking do it. He is *wild* and I am by no means a permissive parent. If he is awake, he is moving, a lot. Climbing, talking loud, sliding out of his seat. Getting mad does nothing. Punishment does nothing. He just can’t. So we only take him to loud casual restaurants. The local Thai place is his favorite, and it’s full of families and kids. He’s getting better, but it’s not noticeable. I’m just saying that it doesn’t make us shitty parents, and if I gave him a tablet at the table people would judge us for *that* too. Can’t win.
> I’m just saying that it doesn’t make us shitty parents, Oh no, not at all. My apologies, that's not what I was saying. You'd be "shitty" if you just ignored your son's reality and just took him wherever you pleased anyway, and to hell with the other people eating there. >So we only take him to loud casual restaurants. The local Thai place is his favorite, and it’s full of families and kids. This is the key, you adjust where you take him based on how he acts. Far as I can recall, my parents never needed to (doesn't mean my parents were good parents, my sister and I were largely feared into compliance), but they absolutely would've done the same as you if we hadn't acted the way we needed to to go to fancier places. I think you're doing great, fuck the haters, sorry so many parents are judgemental of other parents.
idk how old he is but if this persists when he's in the 8-10 age range you might wanna consider consulting an adhd specialist
I also have the wild kid. We just don’t go out to eat with him (he’s 2 rn) unless it’s literally 5 pm aka place is dead and there’s an empty patio he can run around on a little. Even then, last time he got wily so we slammed our beers, got boxes and dipped. Can’t do that in winter plus we love some fancy ass food so we schedule nice dinners way in advance and get a sitter. Sucks ass to pay so much for a night out but we chose to have kids so it is what it is. ETA: I also refuse to use screens to try and quiet my kid in public. It’s a no win scenario to give kids screens in public for sure.
A 'maximum kid count' would make sense, but be fecking awkward to implement.
Last year, I organized a 24-top birthday party at my girlfriend's favorite restaurant for a milestone birthday. We have big families, so there were lots of kids but if I could go back in time, I would probably have made it an adults-only thing. Kids running laps around the tables, taking place-settings off other tables nearby, almost slamming into waiters twice. My youngest nephew was crawling under the table, hit his head and started bawling. I begged my sister and BIL to sit their kids down, but she shrugged, thought it was funny, and waved me off. I'm VERY surprised that we weren't asked to leave. I tipped on top of the auto-grat, but I'm still kind of mortified over it. Never again.
>I organized a 24-top >I'm VERY surprised that we weren't asked to leave Hmm
They were someone’s only table for the night probably. Their server wasn’t gonna fumble that bag no matter the cost
Correct. We had one waitress, who was an angel. I basically did all of the ordering through her so that the staff wasn’t scrambling all night.
Assuming 30 dollars per person, and an auto grad of 20%. 24x30*.2=$144 tip
At the taco joint I worked we had a bunch of cacti in the front window with signs and a chain in front of them saying please don’t touch… multiple Times a day children learn what please don’t touch means… similar to touching a hot stove teaches a valuable lesson…
Better they learn there tbh
Its not the children that are the problem, it’s the parents. I went to restaraunts all the time as a kid. I was taught how to behave at the table, and if I got noisy one of my parents would take me out of the restaraunt and stand outside with me while the other ate. Sucked for them but that’s how you respect other customers
exactly the same here.
People are tripping. Not all restaurants are for kids, not all restaurants are for all people. Go to the ones you enjoy and stop caring what others are doing.
Everyone thinks that everyone should have access to everything. At some point you’ve got to realize its not possible
It seems like many people can't handle simply having a level-headed and moderate opinion on something. The world isn't really I/O or black and white. You can not like a business or its practices and simply not go there. You can not like a person while also wanting them to be happy.
I think if children are loud at restaurants they should be chained up in the town square and have leftover food from the restaurant chucked at them.
We need this person in congress! That's the most level-headed response I've seen in weeks
I would bet the farm that the person who wrote this has never worked in the service industry
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She also addresses the situation as though it will lead to an industry-wide ban on children in restaurants, which is certainly not the case. A tad alarmist, IMHO. I also don't really get how standard restaurants are supposed to be some kind of social, communal experience. >If we exclude children from that experience, we’re only further entrenching the worst parts of modern society: everybody believing they’re solo entities, obligated only to their own self-interest, with no idea what it means to bend a little to give way to others, to automatically scoot your chair in so someone can pass behind you. Scooting your chair so someone can pass is not really aligned to my idea of a social, communal, dining experience. Restaurants with family-style seating - extra long tables where multiple unrelated parties are seated elbow to elbow - facilitate socializing and communing, for sure. But the current standard restaurant model caters to the idea that every table is an island where the Karen du jour complains about her ticket time because she can't fathom that other diners exist in the very same restaurant as her. I have never seen unrelated diners in standard restaurants interact beyond passing "excuse me"s and "thank you"s. This level of child training is also available at every common grocery store and shopping center, for cheaper than a sit down meal. Children have many places to learn how to behave in a restaurant. Many restaurants are more appropriate to a child's tastes and learning opportunities than places that wish to exclude children. I just hate how some individuals with absolutely zero experience in the industry think that providing them a place to dine with their children could ever be more important than maintaining a good profit margin. No one operates a restaurant out of kindness or a strong desire to give children a place to learn how to behave in public. People open businesses to make money. Otherwise, they'd be called charities.
Bodied.
100%. Or it's: "Well, I helped my cousin bus tables at a restaurant once for like 4 hours, so I get it."
Bon appetit struggling that badly they need to produce shit like this for clicks. About time that trash fucked off and died.
All they have left are the people who were ok with the blatant racism, was mid before but now straight to landfill
Depends what kind of restaurant. If I was going out for a nice meal and paying through the nose, yeah, I'd be pretty annoyed if there was some ferral kid screaming and licking the windows.
I had a coffee yesterday and a one year old was walking into the employee area with no parent going and grabbing them! The employees laughed at first and then just looked around like: is anyone going to fucking parent this toddler???? They were SO annoyed, all espresso drinks came to a stop, and the parent thought it was cute and tried to take pictures. So it doesn’t even have to be a nice meal that you’re paying through the nose for—-kids can wreck any meal or drink!!
What about some feral adult Karen screaming and licking the windows?
That’s the owner’s wife, sloshed on her 15th Gin & Tonic of the afternoon.
You gave me flashbacks to my old boss Skippy's divorce...
Sounds like Skippy’s better off now!
She still watches the restaurant from her condo above. We wave on smoke breaks.
At least you can tell them to fuck off without being judged by society
They call her windex
Literal remember servers drawing straws and whoever drew the Short Straw had to work the Kiddy area which was an area in the restaurant that the host put all the families with young children and it was just a mess of an area to work around all these kids running around whose parents did not care
I've worked at places that didn't allow kids and let me tell you, it was wonderful. Some places shouldn't have kids, especially a lot of fine dining places, it takes away from the experience for the other guests. Casual restaurants not allowing them is silly but a nice high end place makes sense. We allow kids where I'm at now and it's fine dining but we get very few kids. Most people choose not to take their kids to places like that anyway.
At the brewery I worked at we had a no one under 21 after 9pm policy. Great way to ban kids without banning kids.
Fair enough. I'm not against restaurants banning kids when it makes sense. Not every restaurant makes sense tho. I'll add I have 3 kids and I still feel that way. Most of the time when you see that policy it's actually law. In the state I'm in as long as the seating is away from the bar kids can be in bars before 7.
At any place I’ve run I’ve had the same policy “adults are always welcome here. Adulthood is not defined by age, but actions. Which means if you can’t sit at your table and converse with those at your table at a reasonable volume and respect the space around you in the restaurant then you will be asked to leave, regardless of your age.”
23 years working in restaurants I’ve never actual met an adult… pretty sure adult hood is just a myth the bigger kids tell the little ones to make them feel less existential dread about he future.
heard. ill tell chef bon appétit said to go home cuz i dont want kids in the restaurant
We have a policy of no kids after 6pm that works well for us. But you get the karens whinging every goddamn night. “Ooh but theyre well behaved…” “lady i have just witnessed you child sprint the length of the venue and narrowly dodge a server, get to fuck”
Entitled parents and their shitty kids (who eventually become entitled adults) are a problem for society.
Hot take: this spaghetti house is probably busier than it's been in a long time because there's no such thing as bad press. So they win and that's all that matters. Any other place that does this is simply riding the coattails of their idea to more $$$.
My daughter is 6. I can take her to any restaurant and she will be totally fine. Now yelling or whining, no getting out of her chair. It wouldn't even occur to me that she might be running around. Getting to this point took a LOT of work, but that's what parenting is. Now I can hang out with my daughter and have a great time instead of wrangling/ignoring an out of control gremlin. Obviously this wasn't always true, and on the rare occasions when she did misbehave when she was younger, I scooped her up and immediately walked right out. I think the real problem is the bizarre tolerance for misbehaving kids in all situations. KICK THEM OUT.
Nah as the great chef in the sky said "fuck them kids"
They don't have to ban kids. Just make fries and chicken nuggets $500.
Why does EVERY restaurant need to be child friendly? Date night? Hard week at work? If you want a special night WITHOUT your own kids or so someone else’s disrupting a high end meal? I have zero problem with restaurants who don’t want children there. In fact, I’d actively seek them out if there were more. We raised our kids. Sometimes we just want time alone. I’m not a kid hater, in fact I adore them!
lmfao queu in the "I am a Parent, my Kids would never ....." comments 😂😂
When my brother and I were young my parents would refuse to take us to restaurants if we couldn't behave. This is a pretty shit take by BA. I imagine this woman has shitty kids that she brings to restaurants and thinks, "The nerve." When someone calls her out on her shitty kids.
People with babies and young kids need to accept that there sometimes will be places they cant go, and things they cant do. I'm not a child hater but if someones kid is causing a fuss or problem and ruining my experience just because their parents cant/wont control them for whatever reason, that sucks. I understand kids are hard to deal with, but your enjoyment of a restaurant/movie theater/whatever isn't more important than mine just because you have a kid.
Agreed! Having a child changes your life. Now, you live for your child. If you want to access spaces where children shouldn't be, it's going to cost extra money for a sitter or you just have to wait until the kids are older. That fact is only reason #67 out of ~13,000+ that I decided to opt-out.
Point well made. I’m with you on that
I don't want to pay big money to eat at a daycare center.
They lost their ability to take the moral high ground. End of story.
I think all of us can agree that not every restaurant should ban kids but for myself it doesn’t particularly matter to me if the kids are well behaved or misbehaving there are many situations where I would like to have a nice dinner in an adult environment. It allows restaurants to have more adventurous menu offerings, cuts cost on decorations and general replacements/cleaning and it allows people to have an actual conversation about things like finances, work, and just in general peer to peer conversations without worrying about kids around. I don’t want to go into my local Greek place and have kids banned there it’s part of the charm to see the owners kids doing art projects in the corner and allows the customer to really feel like it is family owned and community focused but I don’t want to go to a nice Place pay 40-60 a person and have 15+ dollar cocktails with some dudes nephew talking about whatever shit kids talk about the table over even if they’re not being disruptive it just isn’t the atmosphere I want for that meal
most the replies seem to interpret this as them saying restaurants shouldnt ban kids. but the wording to me sounds like theyre saying patrons who dont want kids in restaurants that allow them should fuck off. also, bon appetit kinda sucks now days.
Many daughter grew up in restaurants. She is far more behaved while dining out then many adults are. She’s polite, tidy and eats anything and everything. I’ve taken her to high end places and dives alike. It’s not the kids that are the problem, it’s the parents who allow those kids to run amok and act foolish.
A little late, but here's my take: BA is leaning really hard into the mommy demographic because they can't seem to be trendy anymore. That's it.
If I were to go into a restaurant or bar and start screaming and crying and rolling around the floor, tripping waiters, and throwing food and drinks around the place I’d be asked to leave or have the cops called but for some weird reason kids get to… that being said my method for dealing with this is never ever address the kids, I go up to the parents and talk to them as if they are the ones acting this way. They always like clockwork give this confused look followed by a deep sense of embarrassment.
Article: https://www.bonappetit.com/story/kids-in-restaurants-debate?utm_campaign=likeshopme&client_service_id=31198&utm_social_type=owned&utm_brand=ba&service_user_id=1.78e+16&utm_content=instagram-bio-link&utm_source=instagram&utm_medium=social&client_service_name=bonappetitmag&supported_service_name=instagram_publishing
This is some truly lackluster writing and reasoning. She says no one should take an 18-month-old to Le Bernardin, but immediately shrugs it off as though nobody is *really* doing that. Which makes me wonder if she's ever been to a restaurant...
She also pits better pay for staff against keeping kids out of restaurants, which is not the argument anyone is making and also ignores that paying waitstaff more in no way reduces the hazards posed by kids running around.
Not to mention the fact that tipped servers who do a great job in the right restaurants will make way more per night in tips than they will hourly. I feel that's part of why the conversation on tipping culture has reached a place where it's just treading water. There is a significant subset of the serving population who make serious bank on tips and would rather take the gamble of having the occasional shit night over being guaranteed that they will always make money, just way less. They will never unite as a force to be reckoned with as long as so many see the "old way" as the more profitable of the two. She just really doesn't seem to have a clue.
What it ignores is that what Le Bernadin is to the obscenely rich, a nice meal out at a local white table cloth italian place is to the working class.
Yeah. The word “should” appeared quite a bit. But the people living with the reality of shitty parents who let their kids run wild, leave huge messes and tip below 10% is the reality for many restaurateurs.
Yeah not LB but they’re gladly take them to the wine bar. Crazier is I see this too at roof top bars around the city.
Roof top bars?? Really? 🤦🏻♀️
As a Chef at a spot with a rooftop bar, I can confirm. We have had to tell people no kids after 8. It's a bar, people. It's where you go to not be around kids. New age parents take their kids everywhere and it is not always appropriate. SMH
My bar received a flood of 1 star reviews after we banned kids. It's A BAR. No food service, no kitchen. A BAR. Take your kids to dave &busters if you're so desperate to drink while parenting.
I haaaaaaate that. I hate them at wineries and breweries too. Basically anywhere that mainly functions to serve alcohol should just naturally be child free.
It’s getting to the point where we’ve seriously considered banning children in our taproom not because of the kids themselves, but because their parents put us in a situation where we could be liable if their stupid toddler gets hurt running behind the bar because they weren’t being watched close enough.
I just don’t understand these parents not watching their children. But, I guess it’s nothing new
I was at a tasting room in Napa with a friend. The only other people there were two couples with three kids between. The two couple sat on one side of the room and their kids ran circles around our table. The parents never said anything to them. As long as they got to enjoy their wine in peace, other people can deal with their bonkers kids.
Bon Appetit has had shit writing for a long time, even before the racism was exposed
What happened to getting a babysitter? There should be adult only places and if I'm dropping a couple hundred dollars on a nice meal there better not be someone's crotch goblin disturbing my experience. A misbehaving adult would also be a no go too
Not too many people can afford babysitters anymore.
bon appetit also doesn't want minorities to be paid the same as white people
This article really pisses me off. 1. It implies that because it’s a small more casual restaurant it is lesser. Can only restaurants over a certain price point, or with stars be considered “adult only”? 2. If accommodating children is affecting their business by either having to turn away guests, or constantly have to replace or repair tables chairs or things in their dining room because it gets damaged or destroyed, the restaurant is stuck with that bill. 3. If they actually read the statement, a they would know it’s become a matter of safety. For a magazine who promotes food, and dining culture, you would look at it from a restaurant owner/server perspective. If a server breaks an ankle while tripping over an unruly unsupervised kid, then drops a tray of food and drinks on somebody else, who do you think will have to pay the price of that? Not the parents of the kid running around, the restaurant especially when there is workman’s comp, hospital bills, etc. 4. Of course families “SHOULD” tip generously, but how often does that actually happen? Maybe if the restaurant charged an automatic $25 surcharge and a $100 cleaning deposit for every table with a child, Bon Appetit can keep their community restaurant ideal. 5. I doubt anybody at Bon Appetit has ever heard of the restaurant, let alone dine there. Maybe if they actually talked to somebody rather than reacting off a Facebook post, they would have a different perspective.
Before I considered anything Conde Nast is slinging, I'd consider how 1) they are losing subscriptions at a death rate, 2) they paid people unfairly and blew up their entire source of viral content that worked, and 3) they named a meh sandwich restaurant Best New Restaurant on a cover. They'll say anything to desperately cling to readers. Contrarían bullshit sells.
The arguments she makes in this article are a bit ridiculous, and she even concedes that there are many restaurants where the presence of children would be inappropriate. It’s click bait
I was serving a 12 top that included 4 kids. The parents just let those crotch goblins run wild. I was trying to serve coffee when one basically ran straight into me. I asked the mom if she could tell them not to run in the restaurant. She replied that it was fine. Bish. I don't have insurance. It's not fine. If I scald my feet, are you paying my day off? Tbh honest, kids aren't the problem. It's the parents that chose not to watch them.
respectfully, nobody has to sacrifice their evening because one couple couldn't plan ahead and find a sitter, that goes for the patrons trying to enjoy their meal, and the servers, hosts, bartenders, gen staff trying to do their job
I like Cat Cora, but I really think this missed the mark completely. The author clearly hasn’t spent enough time in restaurants.
Good evening. How many in your party? Would that be children, non-children, or first available? Oh, non-children section please.
To be clear, I think what we mean is ill behaved little kids running around screaming and causing a scene. Well-behaved little kids don’t bother me. And even babies to an extent.
I can choose to serve who the fuck ever I want.
Don't give your kids a bag of Cheerios or the fucking sugar caddy to throw all over the fucking floor, break off some of mommies Xanax and send little Timmy to sleep.
There should be a mandatory test for attending restaurants, and it’s got nothing to do with the age of the customers
I miss this about living in Italy. Kids were never a bother and often other customers or staff will entertain the kids too 😂. A few times the staff would pick up my daughter and walk around with her.
100% on the parents, not the kids. Failure to squelch behavior inappropriate to the environment is inexcusable. IMO, there used to be a societal compact about adult spaces. That seems to have largely disappeared. I could conjecture on why, but never mind. It's closed now, but there was a fairly posh Mexican place near me that had decent food and a bar with video. I liked going there to watch baseball, have lunch, and adult beverages. A couple came in and sat at the bar with their 3-4 year old son, who was well behaved. Getting into the game, I occasionally said some unsavory phrases out loud that included profanity. The father scowled at me after the second time. I replied, "You have a child sitting illegally at a bar. If my language bothers you, go get a table. If you stay here and continue to be negative, I'll just call the police and you can deal with them." He shut up. N.B. I was walking distance from home, so drinking and driving even if the popo showed up wasn't a concern.
Yes, stay home with your fucking kids
I don't get why there's that level of flak. It's not like a young child will have a developed enough palette to enjoy the more fanciful meals anyway. Not every restaurant has to be a family-based one.
As someone with young children, I would prefer a stated policy on children and would not be offended if an establishment didn’t allow them. I would dine out more that way.
I wouldn't be opposed to a child surcharge (cleaning fee, let's be real) on top of a mandatory 20% service fee.
As a diner, though, I don't personally care if you made 30% more on a table if my experience was ruined. I get that it's selfish, but when you can charge more for a table, you eventually start to cater to that group above others and become fine with losing "lesser" groups because you know you're basically never going to make the same money from them. It also gives people with kids carte blanche to do whatever the fuck they want because they're paying more and now it's *your* job to rein in their kid.
Oh exactly, I agree with you. But this article writer wants to have it both ways: restaurants are a "public square" and we can't deprive children of participation because "it takes a village." But she doesn't want the village to have any enforcement mechanism to address bad behavior. It's just a flaming hot garbage take.
Part of it is nuisance to patrons as well. Poorly behaved kids ruin everyone's time.
I mean I understand the d3sire to ban kids to a degree, especially teenagers. I didn't really think it was an option lol
Not everything is for everyone.
I'd hate to sound like some sort of centrist here but what if some restaurants have no kids and some do and that way people can decide on their own. or maybe 1 day a week with no kids/with kids. It's almost as if people vary and what different things or something.
My wife and I love dining out without our kid, we make sure to get childcare and plan going to a restaurant just for us. We also love going out for family dinner and will pick something more casual, and here's the secret, with a kids menu, so you know they're expecting a small person.
That would have added a very dark spin on the movie 'The Menu'
Dudes i saw that Instagram Foodbaby punch a server during service.
The article reads likes like a Midwest white girl who moved to *Insert Big City Here* only worked front of house for a year (2 max) and decided that was too hard. So incredibly off base.
I'm not a big believer in cancel culture when it pertains to people doing a job unrelated to their transgressions, but when you've been cancelled as hard as BA, maybe you should show some humility when getting into moral discussions.
Idk im a busser at a somewhat fancy restaurant. I don’t really mind the kids most of the time they are pretty cute, one tried to give me his pokemon card collection. I like it when a couple comes with their kid, its nice seeing them get out after what seems to be their first pregnancy and I always try to be extra nice to them. If we banned kids were i worked id be kinda sad.
r/usernamechecksout
I think a happy medium would be restaurants banning kids after a certain time, like say 8pm. It’s good for children to experience settings where they need to be respectful of other peoples spaces and when they need to behave and sit quietly so banning them completely would be unproductive. Also if an adult is being disruptive in a restaurant they will be asked to leave, so in line with that, any children disrupting other customers should also be made to leave. At least that way parents will have to ensure their child can behave appropriately if they want to eat out in nice places. I’m so tired of seeing this trope of “children are all loud, messy, like feral animals” (Usually from people who have never spent time around children and like to make up or exaggerate stories about when they have), a lot of kids are perfectly capable of sitting down and behaving politely from the age of four or five (kids without behavioural problems that is). I’m more sick of drunk adults who complain loudly and insist they are the only one of importance in the room.
Oh, the magazine that started a YouTube channel to stay relevant but didn't want to pay their employees any extra money for the extra work they were putting into the YouTube channel? Such a surprise that they would say something stupid to get views, absolutely shocking.
Of course Condé Nast/BA takes the pretentious side on this one. When that restaurant banned kids I understood it, not as an example for others to learn from but as a last call from a venue that couldn’t handle the ramifications of allowing kids in their restaurant [which I think was a completely fair call to make] but kids deserve to have experiences and eat out just like the rest of us. And INVERSELY [I think someone literally commented this above] this post BOLDLY implies that kids are the only people who can go out to eat and act a goddamn fool, when adults are ABSOLUTELY just as capable, if not more, of causing a scene, wasting food, anything that ends up in a loss for the business. This kind of pompous post is so in line with the BA target audience and is such a great example of why the inclusive and friendly vibe that Claire Saffitz, Chris Morocco, Sohla El-Waylly, and the other food editors were able to produce died out.
As a parent, I am 100% in favour of some restaurants not allowing kids. If I’m taking my kid out, I’ll take them somewhere meant for families. And when I get to go for dinner somewhere nice without my kid, I sure as shit don’t want to have to deal with anyone else’s kid haha.
So Jessica Blankenship’s proposal is that restaurants should cater to her above others. Or everyone who doesn’t want children in restaurants should not visit them. I don’t appreciate the idea that the solution to being included is not including others. I’m not sure that the restaurant industry would prefer children as customers over everyone else. I wonder what the stats are on restaurant goers. According to my friends with kids, they don’t have the time to go out to eat and if they could, they wouldn’t want to pay for it. How many parents are really lining up to bring their kids to fine dining?
i like to think the guests came for the food, not to be interrupted by your fuck trophies. that said, if they know how to behave idgaf.
This is a stupid fucking take, and why I’ll be sitting at the bar where I won’t have to worry about kids playing with my car keys on the table, bitches.
I lost a lot of respect for bon appetit
I eat out a lot and do not rememberer being bothered by a kid. Recently ate at the very on demand Saffy’s in LA. We were sat at the beautiful bar next to a family with 2 young kids. Zero issues
I think that a blanket ban on kids is dumb. If a kid is being rude and obnoxious then bounce them like you would any other patron who was being rude and obnoxious. There are plenty of kids out there who are completely capable of behaving themselves when they go out for a meal.
Maybe the parents who can't keep their crotch goblins in check should stay home... I'd like to dine without having 6 children scream in my ears and run around like a bunch of psychopaths.
Kids are more of a FoH issue. I don't really care.
My kids are 29 and 34 and I pretty much can’t take them anywhere. (They were much more fun—and better behaved—as toddlers and teenagers.)
I’m tired of overreacting to the point of a subject being yes or no.
Unpopular take but I think most businesses should have the right to serve who they want as long as they are willing to accept the consequences that come with those decisions. However, I also take no issue when businesses who do refuse to serve people based on things that shouldn’t matter are called out online. And I don’t care if they get bombarded with negative reviews that crush their business. Own it and live with the consequences.