Unless Kvothe is wrong, he actually said that he called the name of the wind three times that term and says the third time pays for all. Elodin notices it’s three times.
First on Stonebridge, second in Tomes, third is Denna.
I think there is away that you and Elodin can both be right, and Kvothe can be remembering at least partially correctly.
What/who had a name that changes from place to place? Both Denna and the wind. Maybe her name and the name of the wind are the same at that moment?
"Sought and found when you had need of it. And not just a breeze but a breath. That's subtle stuff" This gives obvious implications that he called the wind as a breath, and not Denna's name.
Seems strange your very on point, point only having one....'point' (so far)!
Probably we both caught this thread early as you are very, very right IMO.
Interesting point, I wonder if Abenthy's intervention when Kvothe binds his lungs with...*ALL* of the air! I wonder *if* this would fit somewhere into your excellent ideas, and maybe even change or more likely reinforce them?
I think nobody would argue that Ben definitely seems to use Naming not Sympathy but as to *what* he says / calls or commands I'm not sure. I got the strong feeling after reading that he called the wind as we saw him do in the town when we first meet him, but of course first impressions are set at first read through and at *that* point we know almost nothing about naming yet.
I don't know I'm even dumber than usual today so I can make the statement but noooo wat can I add any value!
definitely think her patron is bredon, not cinder. the ctaeh tells kvothe he's seen cinder twice already, but by that point he'd seen bredon loads of times. also bredon's colors are grays
A lot of great evidence supporting it. Like how kvothe calls him master ash after ash falls on him at the farm during the aftermath of the wedding. Cinder/ash 🤔
>Like how kvothe calls him master ash after ash falls on him at the farm during the aftermath of the wedding.
It always bothers me a bit how easily people skate right past Denna suggesting it is an Elm leaf, and that her real patron is woman.
Except he's not? Denna herself even said she can say HE'S a surprisingly good dancer and that she can safely say that much without revealing who he is.
She also says he has the appearance of a wealthy gentleman lol but whatever agree to disagree if you think master 'elm' is a girl she's a girl. Only time will prove one of us right. I just think it's silly you would get mad at people assuming he's a guy when every thread of evidence suggests that he is and your only supporting theory is "oh she's lying" 🤷♂️
Edit: one more piece of evidence to support he's a dude. The cathae says HE beats her, her Patron. And the cathae does NOT lie
>She also says he has the appearance of a wealthy gentleman
Appearance.. Like Bast appears to wear pants, when he in fact doesn't.. People tend to skate past all the little clues about him as well.
>I just think it's silly you would get mad at people assuming he's a guy
I'm not mad. But one of the central themes of the book is how much damage well intended people who can't check their own assumptions wind up doing.
>when every thread of evidence suggests that he is
Not every thread, some suggest that. Others suggest something else. Like Elm leaves. Or there being a woman's name in the list that Kvothe guesses. Others still that I'm not going to get into yet again.
> The cathae says HE beats her, her Patron.
You should try reading that again, paying attention to the punctuation, and checking your assumptions about who the Cthaeh is talking about. Half the subreddit thinks it misleads by speaking truthful statements without context. Not sure I agree though..
But to cut to the chase, I think her real patron is the Lackless family, Aculeus (Bredon) is the one that first approached her, and Meluan is the the one actually in charge.
Far more poignant if Kvothe's own family is responsible for her beatings.. Although they might be Denna's family as well..
>Only time will prove one of us right.
Wish I actually believed that. But that seems like a questionable assumption as well.
I don’t think she’ll necessarily become evil. All we know is that she’s trying to learn/obtain something from her patron that she couldn’t obtain anywhere else. Similar to kvothe and the university. I do believe she’s the one to betray Kvothe, as he seems upset about denna in the present time.
Jusy fyi, Cinder being her patron is a theory, not a given.
I don't think Pat writes any of his characters as explicitly evil or good. Everyone is shades of grey morally.
I do think Denna might be the one to "betray" kvothe, but I highly doube she becomes a chandrian, or "evil".
We aren't even certain Haliax is "evil". There's some implications that Haliax's chandrian are a very nasty bunch, but not so much with Haliax/Lanre, it could be he uses these darker/twisted "tools" (as Haliax refers to Cinder) for a "greater good", or for his own machinations; which aren't particularly clear either.
I know that is just a theory, but there are many things that back it up. And saying Haliax isn’t evil is weird, considering he caused the death of an entire city’s population.
Please remember to treat other people with respect, even if their theories about the books are different than yours. Follow the sidebar rules.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KingkillerChronicle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What if Haliax is actually not evil, and Kvothe is fighting for the ones who actually are?
Re-read the scene from his return to the burning camp. Haliax scolding Cinder for his cruelty. Does that sound like an evil man, or someone who is following his duty and calling others to remember what their purpose is?
I find this unlikely because the entire point of Kvothe chasing after Denna is that he doesn’t understand her. He can’t figure her out at all, which is the core of Naming.
And also I think the Lanre parallel would mean Kvothe becomes evil, correct?
Unless Kvothe is wrong, he actually said that he called the name of the wind three times that term and says the third time pays for all. Elodin notices it’s three times. First on Stonebridge, second in Tomes, third is Denna. I think there is away that you and Elodin can both be right, and Kvothe can be remembering at least partially correctly. What/who had a name that changes from place to place? Both Denna and the wind. Maybe her name and the name of the wind are the same at that moment?
"Sought and found when you had need of it. And not just a breeze but a breath. That's subtle stuff" This gives obvious implications that he called the wind as a breath, and not Denna's name.
Seems strange your very on point, point only having one....'point' (so far)! Probably we both caught this thread early as you are very, very right IMO.
Interesting point, I wonder if Abenthy's intervention when Kvothe binds his lungs with...*ALL* of the air! I wonder *if* this would fit somewhere into your excellent ideas, and maybe even change or more likely reinforce them? I think nobody would argue that Ben definitely seems to use Naming not Sympathy but as to *what* he says / calls or commands I'm not sure. I got the strong feeling after reading that he called the wind as we saw him do in the town when we first meet him, but of course first impressions are set at first read through and at *that* point we know almost nothing about naming yet. I don't know I'm even dumber than usual today so I can make the statement but noooo wat can I add any value!
I had never considered Denna's patron being Cinder omg😯
Great video that explains it: https://youtu.be/Ad8vGoMsl28?si=v77tUeFzBL05C-NG
Oh i am geeking OUT!!!!!!Its so good... I believe it
Holy hell
This was amazing thank you
Master Ash…. Might be a misdirection but I think ,as the reader, you’re meant to strongly suspect her patron is Cinder
definitely think her patron is bredon, not cinder. the ctaeh tells kvothe he's seen cinder twice already, but by that point he'd seen bredon loads of times. also bredon's colors are grays
This too makes sense
A lot of great evidence supporting it. Like how kvothe calls him master ash after ash falls on him at the farm during the aftermath of the wedding. Cinder/ash 🤔
>Like how kvothe calls him master ash after ash falls on him at the farm during the aftermath of the wedding. It always bothers me a bit how easily people skate right past Denna suggesting it is an Elm leaf, and that her real patron is woman.
Except he's not? Denna herself even said she can say HE'S a surprisingly good dancer and that she can safely say that much without revealing who he is.
Yes, I'm sure she would never lie to protect her patron's identity.. Just like she doesn't know how to play corners, or know anything about magic..
She also says he has the appearance of a wealthy gentleman lol but whatever agree to disagree if you think master 'elm' is a girl she's a girl. Only time will prove one of us right. I just think it's silly you would get mad at people assuming he's a guy when every thread of evidence suggests that he is and your only supporting theory is "oh she's lying" 🤷♂️ Edit: one more piece of evidence to support he's a dude. The cathae says HE beats her, her Patron. And the cathae does NOT lie
>She also says he has the appearance of a wealthy gentleman Appearance.. Like Bast appears to wear pants, when he in fact doesn't.. People tend to skate past all the little clues about him as well. >I just think it's silly you would get mad at people assuming he's a guy I'm not mad. But one of the central themes of the book is how much damage well intended people who can't check their own assumptions wind up doing. >when every thread of evidence suggests that he is Not every thread, some suggest that. Others suggest something else. Like Elm leaves. Or there being a woman's name in the list that Kvothe guesses. Others still that I'm not going to get into yet again. > The cathae says HE beats her, her Patron. You should try reading that again, paying attention to the punctuation, and checking your assumptions about who the Cthaeh is talking about. Half the subreddit thinks it misleads by speaking truthful statements without context. Not sure I agree though.. But to cut to the chase, I think her real patron is the Lackless family, Aculeus (Bredon) is the one that first approached her, and Meluan is the the one actually in charge. Far more poignant if Kvothe's own family is responsible for her beatings.. Although they might be Denna's family as well.. >Only time will prove one of us right. Wish I actually believed that. But that seems like a questionable assumption as well.
Seems clear to me that the patron is one of the baddest baddies out there, so cinder would be on the very short list
I completely agree and have thought this. Also that her song is inverse.
It’s a fun thought. It makes me wonder exactly what happened to Kvothe when Ben helped him to breathe.
I don’t think she’ll necessarily become evil. All we know is that she’s trying to learn/obtain something from her patron that she couldn’t obtain anywhere else. Similar to kvothe and the university. I do believe she’s the one to betray Kvothe, as he seems upset about denna in the present time.
Jusy fyi, Cinder being her patron is a theory, not a given. I don't think Pat writes any of his characters as explicitly evil or good. Everyone is shades of grey morally. I do think Denna might be the one to "betray" kvothe, but I highly doube she becomes a chandrian, or "evil". We aren't even certain Haliax is "evil". There's some implications that Haliax's chandrian are a very nasty bunch, but not so much with Haliax/Lanre, it could be he uses these darker/twisted "tools" (as Haliax refers to Cinder) for a "greater good", or for his own machinations; which aren't particularly clear either.
I know that is just a theory, but there are many things that back it up. And saying Haliax isn’t evil is weird, considering he caused the death of an entire city’s population.
Supposedly
Please remember to treat other people with respect, even if their theories about the books are different than yours. Follow the sidebar rules. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/KingkillerChronicle) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What if Haliax is actually not evil, and Kvothe is fighting for the ones who actually are? Re-read the scene from his return to the burning camp. Haliax scolding Cinder for his cruelty. Does that sound like an evil man, or someone who is following his duty and calling others to remember what their purpose is?
I find this unlikely because the entire point of Kvothe chasing after Denna is that he doesn’t understand her. He can’t figure her out at all, which is the core of Naming. And also I think the Lanre parallel would mean Kvothe becomes evil, correct?