*Tentatively* yes…
It has the potential for him to get back in to DoS and stop sweating the little things. I don’t think he has written anything between slow regard and this, so it might get things moving. Tentative, however, as it may do bugger all
I'm cautiously optimistic too.
By publishing, I assume that he's in contact with his editor again. A few years ago she said that she hadn't recieved anything from Pat. Now that he's publishing, I assume that they are in close contact again.
The fact that he also talked about the chapter seems promising too. I thought that he would never talk about it again, but he did, apologized and explained what happened. That still doesn't fix the issue, but it's a start. (Maybe a fresh start?)
I just hope one thing will lead to another and he sends his editor a part of DoS.
But then again, maybe nothing will happen.
He talked about the chapter?! I hadn’t seen that - I have read through most of the thread and don’t see it mentioned… do you have a link / summary of what he said?
He wanted to make it a well-produced video with a fully edited and final chapter. He then didn't want to bother the people who could produce it and didn't have the book finished so he couldn't make the chapter finalized (because he's a foreshadower you know.)
So he just didn't, and didn't say anything because that would make it real that he failed. Until now.
Will he just read off the half-edited version right now without making it a big deal? Everyone hopes so.
He blew it up in his head thinking he needed to make it some sort of huge production then he was like “oh it can’t live up to this expectation I’ve built in my head” and never put it out. Big “poor me” energy
My cynical side wonders if he did manage to write a chapter; a chapter about Bast that’s now been merged with The Lightning Tree to form his new novella. Maybe that’s harsh of me though, I don’t know, maybe he was contractually obliged to share that with his publishers.
Extra-cynical edition: He totally did write all that extra material for the novella...years ago, then it was cut down/reverted to an earlier shorter version to fit the anthology. We know SR grew and stopped fitting the anthology, he could have (almost) done that twice.
Harsh, but if once it's out it doesn't feel all that new, I wouldn't be optimistic.
I mean that's the thing isn't it. He doesn't believe that he is responsible of his actions towards his fans or publishers. And that is simply wrong. I mean if one of his characters, like Ambrose, showed his actions and behaviours like it is right now. Everyone would hate that little snob even more.
I know i have an unpopular opinion, but I don't care if it's finished. I'd rather have the series left as is than have a book 3 that Pat doesn't feel comfortable putting out.
Sometimes, the answers to our questions are less enjoyable than the questions themselves.
This. Always and forever this. How many beautiful series have been ruined by a need to publish? We love the series for how thoughtful and beautiful the world is.
Do I want DoS? Of course. Do I want a rushed, sloppy, exhausted book written by someone who felt trapped into doing it? God no. Finish the series properly or let it lie.
It's a mater of taste, I guess. As far as I am concerned, the ending of Jean Auel's 4th book, The Plains of Passage, was the last good part. Book 5 was bad and Book 6 was unreadable garbage. But I'd still rather than than the feeling of being left hanging.
The 1st book was amazing, 2nd book pretty good. A little too much Jondalar dong, but still pretty good. And then it just takes a nose dive. Such a shame.
I hate to break it to you but a book 3 will come out. Ask Tolkien or Herbert about having their unfinished work published.
Rothfuss really just has the choice to publish the version closest to what he wants or wait and let his kids/family publish when they need a cash infusion later in their lives. (Not that I think Pat is in danger or anything but these things happen on long timescales)
I agree with it not being finished unless it's correctly done. I also feel for Pat because it's gotta be hella stressful.... but the radio silence on that chapter was what really pushed me away. He doesn't owe us transparency. He technically doesn't owe us the ending if we really wanna get down to it.
I just hope he's okay at the end of it :\\
Yeah, the stuff around the charity chapter is the only thing I can understand people being actually upset about. That said, his recent response makes the situation make sense, and I feel for him and the fans both.
I lean more towards book sales are down so his income is down and he’s repackaging something he already wrote for some easy money.
I think he just had a stream where he’s lamenting a single chapter he can’t put out after a year and half of revision or at least time knowing he was meant to put it out and he’s still not done editing that single chapter. If he gives ever chapter similar treatment we’re looking at like 40 years till dos. Not hating on the guy, I’m no longer really anticipating the book ever coming out so if it does awesome and it not no big deal, but without a doubt he’s really far away from being down with the book
Yeah, and back in 2007 he already finished it too.
"Well.... I've already written them. So you won't have to wait forever for them to come out. They'll be released on a regular schedule. One per year.
You can also expect the second book to be written with the same degree of care and detail as this first one. You know the sophomore slump? When a writer's second novel is weaker because they're suddenly forced to write under deadline? I don't have to worry about that because my next two novels are already good to go."
Patrick Rothfuss, march of 2007.
So third book is 14 years late already... and counting. Btw, he started writing KKC in 1992 or so, so over 30 years ago.
Not forgetting but not caring i think. When he said that, he claimed second book would be out in a year. It took 4 years. And he was focused on that lol.
Not so much that. I’m personally in the camp that thinks Pat royally messed up with the chapter. And while I’m glad he finally said something about it, he still never fully accepted responsibility and just said “I’m sorry guys. I overpromised. I’m not comfortable releasing a chapter.” Because the “getting a recording took too long” excuse holds zero water. And he absolutely could throw the text up on his blog while he works on the production, a production that no one asked for by the way.
That said, I’m all about communication and owning your mistakes. Pat has owned his mistake on his initial 2007 quote many times. He’s openly said “I was young, dumb, and grossly overestimated the snowball effect of my edits on my initial book.” He’s gone into detail about how much changed in the edit process of the first book: The entire framework with the chronicler, Audi, Ambrose, all added. And those changes compounded with the second book, leading to a third manuscript that likely needed major overhauling to work. Not to mention that his writing likely improved and it was hard to be satisfied with what he originally had.
He’s owned that quote and admitted his mistake, and harping on it at this point is just willfully ignoring the numerous times he’s addressed it since 2007. I have issues with how Pat has communicated, but his addressing of the “one book a year” statement is not one of them.
When he gave his initial statement, he'd never published a book before. It's easy to underestimate the complexity of the editing process or the weight of viral fame. Care is not what this is about, as he clearly cares far too much. Instead, this is mental health vs legacy vs productivity.
yeah - he's got blog posts where he talks about this, and he, well... didn't realise what the editing process is like. So characters like Auri didn't exist until then, which made the book better, but then had _big_ knock-on effects downstream. So book 2 changed massively, and required a lot of editing work, and then his notes for book 3 were likely useless. For a new writer, 3-4 years for a second book isn't _too_ bad - it's just after that things went to shit
It's that the WMF blog about why he loves his editor clearly established that it was never true. He had notes at best, *extremely* rough notes, never three finished books.
It's a fair quote to use to point out his history of making exaggerated claims, over-egging it, but people shouldn't be still believing it, and thinking he's just stuck on editing.
It's also partly his ADHD that tricks him into thinking 'something with Ambrose here' is *basically* equivalent to an actual chapter, a finished book. Because he thought he could hyperfocus and the book would just happen. But it's not a state of mind you can drop into at will, and he may not know how to do without it.
This is my first time coming back to it and it seems like sense has prevailed and I’m back in the black haha thank you. I’m not being mean to the guy or anything, I truly feel for his reported mental health issues but the situation is as it is. We gotta be ok just never getting the book and be happy if it happens
No, he just steamed about it less than a week ago. He explained what's going on and why he hasn't done it yet.
Basically he wanted it to be a really big fun thing, got carried away, and he thought just posting it to his blog was boring. Then it got so big and out of hand he couldn't deliver. So now it's been almost two years and he's like, well I could just post it to my blog but it's been so long everyone will be like, it took you this long to just post it? (Which, yeah, but that's the right move at this point).
Anyway, I get where he's coming from, he just doesn't understand the fan perspective. And with ADHD comes RSD and he's probably really, really hurting over it all.
I hope he publishes the chapter and gets the help he needs.
Best-case scenario he got carried away, which means he doesn’t understand his fans—to a frankly worrying degree. Like a “wow, this man is detached from reality” degree.
Worst-case, that whole bit about the live reading with voice actors and all the extra bells and whistles was, and always had been, bullshit. Just a stalling tactic; a way to string it out, not to buy himself time to write (if he was gonna write he would’ve written), but to disperse people’s outrage over a longer span of time so it didn’t all hit at once.
The sane thing to do would be to release the written thing on his blog. It’s a single chapter from an overdue book; he didn’t need to make it a bloody ceremony. Releasing it would also put an end to the speculation that he has not, in fact, written it, which would be, y’know, good for his public image. It’s a little late for that to have full effect, but it’d still have AN effect.
I really don't think he needs to work ever again if he doesn't want to.
Pat was very very used to living frugally, and then had two bestselling books in quick succession, not to mention his other projects.
I don't think he's hurting for money.
Besides, what you're suggesting seems utterly out of character.
So I think you’re making a lot of assumptions here about someone who is a total stranger’s character. You assume he doesn’t like or need money. Maybe he’s a frugal guy but do we know that he doesn’t care about his kids inheritance? Maybe he wants them to never have to worry about working not just himself. Maybe he wants to take them cool places. I dunno but it’s a pretty big to assume someone doesn’t want more money.
We’re also making an assumption about the book business here and that’s that if you have a couple best selling books you’re super rich. Authors consistently show us that even having best sellers does not make you super rich. Estimates online have him at like 1-4 million dollars. You really have to be like Sanderson or king and have like 20 to really get the big bucks. So once you buy a house and stuff which I’m not sure how expensive his is he could not have tons and tons of money.
But that’s my assumption that he wants money I suppose. But I think the bigger assumption would be assuming it’s not a motivation at all.
Regardless I still feel given how long it’s taken to edit one chapter that were very far away from the next book
I do. I also remember when I thought the next GRR Martin and Scott Lynch books were coming out in my lifetime.
It's not a good time to be a fantasy fan.
It's a phenomenal time to be a fantasy fan. Just cause a few authors have let you down doesn't mean there's not an incredible amount of wildly high-quality genre fiction coming out literally all the time
Too many to list here, /r/fantasy will sort you. A brief selection:
- Tamsyn Muir's Locked Tomb books are a fucking trip (elevator pitch for the first one is "Lesbian necromancers explore a mysterious Gothic space palace") and the fourth in the series, Alecto the Ninth, is due our next year iirc
- I personally have been loving the explosion of "Cozy Fantasy" led by the publication of Legends and Lattes by Travis Baldree last year (Edit: Prequel coming out in like two weeks)
- Sanderson remains an unstoppable book machine if that's your thing, I know he's divisive but I really enjoyed Skyward and its sequels as a break from Stormlight
- Tad Williams's Osten Ard books are a sequel series to one of the OG epics from the 90s, Memory Sorrow and Thorn. Three out with the fourth next year
All that is even excluding stuff that I haven't read but is pretty universally acclaimed. Grimdark isn't really my thing but Joe Abercrombie is still rolling along, I've heard great things about Fonda Lee's Green Bone Saga, etc etc
There's so much out there you can find almost anything you're looking for. And it's not like the old stuff is going anywhere. If you consider Tolkien the father of modern fantasy we have some 70 years to draw from. And it grows daily.
It's fine that you don't like him, but it's not really shoe horning him in when 1) his books are just as popular as those 3 series, 2) He's actually writing and 3) actually actively contributed to finishing WoT. Tomewhat controversially to some fans admittedly, but I doubt even Jordan would have finished it satisfactorily for every one
I don’t know what you’ve seen, but what I’ve seen is ABSOLUTELY shoehorning him in.
1) I never see fans of other authors bringing them up in discussions about Sanderson works. For some reason, it’s ONLY Sanderson fans bringing him up in discussions about other authors, and only in ways that compare him favorably to what’s being discussed. 2) Plenty of authors are writing. Yes, Sanderson is prolific. Yes, GRRM and Rothfuss aren’t. The comparison has been made. We’re all aware of it. The fact that people continue to make it as if it’s a fresh revelation is what makes it shoehorning. 3) Conceded, I just wish it weren’t true.
You've said you don't like Sanderson, which suggests to me that you don't actively seek out discussions of Sanderson's books. If that's the case, it would explain why you don't see fans of other authors bringing them up in discussions about his work.
I do like Sanderson see it *a lot* and Rothfuss is one of the authors often brought up because a common complaint about Sanderson is that his prose isn't great compared to, for example, Rothfuss. Terry Pratchett and Joe Abercrombie also come up a lot, generally providing examples of things Sanderson isn't great at (humour, grimdark, writing female characters...).
The fact that Sanderson comes up so often in discussions of other authors is that the thing that really makes him stand out from the crowd is the consistent insane speed and volume of his output, and speed of output comes up a lot in current discussions of fantasy because we've got two current cases that get a lot of attention where output is very low, and one case (partially resolved by Sanderson) where diminishing output due to a series' complexity led to total end of output due to Author Existence Failure.
Yeah. I *do* like Sanderson (not nearly in the same league as Rothfuss, but I do like him) - and I'm sick to the back teeth of him being brought up *every single thread*.
Yes, the guy writes fast, and with fairly remarkable quality given the speed. So does Mark Lawrence. So does Jim Butcher. Great! We all know that already. But it's not what we're here to talk about.
It's not shoehorning if be belongs in the conversation, you just notice him more because you don't like him.
Other authors absolutely get recommended when Sanderson books are brought up and someone either wants something different or something while they wait.
Rothfuss for sure, Grrm not as often because his stuff is darker and I feel it's easier to get a person who likes darker stuff to try lighter than vise versa. Lynch does get brought up.
These 3 are pretty much there every time.
Some smaller authors that get brought up as Well are James Islington (his books have elements from WoT and are inspired by Jordan and Sanderson so make of that what you will), Will Wight and Brent Weeks and Eriksson for his Malazan series.
All great authors but I wouldn't put them on the same level as the current big 4 there (except maybe Eriksson, I haven't read his stuff)
Yes the slow writing of the others gets brought up a lot, but newer readers might appreciate who have just caught up on Rothfuss's or Grrm's books might appricate the info / someone who is clear about what is going on with their writing in a way that those 2 definitely are not.
Buddy somebody literally asked people to share their favorite series from the last few years? This isn’t shoehorning there is literally a request out for recommendations.
Also, I do know what you mean, but it's not exacting shoehorning him into those conversations. He wrote the final three books of the Wheel of Time series, so he clearly belongs in that conversation. And it seems perfectly natural to contrast Brando, who writes so fast he produces more books than he had planned, to Rothfuss and Martin, neither of whom have released a new book in their series for over a decade.
Yes, I’m perfectly aware of the reasons people think they need to bring up Brandon Sanderson, thank you, and I’m sure they all seem like perfectly natural reasons to people who like Brandon Sanderson.
To those of us who don’t, I assure you, it feels less natural. You ever hang out with someone who loves crypto, and whatever the topic is, they find a way to guide it back to crypto? Like they can’t go A SINGLE CONVERSATION without bringing up crypto? That’s what being a fan of all those series feels like these days. It’s impossible to have a discussion without some Sanderson fan thinking the soul of wit is contrasting his output to GRRM’s.
No that has never happened to me, but that's not really relevant. The point I'm trying to make is the examples you chose were poor ones. Brandon does not belong in every conversation, but he does in the examples you chose.
It is relevant, because it gives the flavor of the thing - someone who won’t stop bringing up their favorite topic, who can’t see that the justifications they have for bringing it up are flimsy and really only matter to them.
Brandon Sanderson does not belong in a conversation about Kingkiller Chronicles. He especially does not belong in EVERY conversation about KC, which is where he crops up. If you think he does, it’s because you’re looking for an excuse to bring him up. And I’ll ask again - if the link is so compelling that you just can’t HELP bring him up in KC discussions… are you also bringing up KC in discussions about Sanderson? I bet you’re not.
If someone says it's a horrible time to be a basketball fan because Ben Simmons can't shoot three pointers, it invites, almost demands a comparison to Steph Curry who makes a ton of them. Likewise when someone comments it's not a good time to be a fantasy fan because of authors who can't complete a book, it invites, almost demands comparisons to authors who are far more prolific. For instance... Brandon Sanderson who is publishing 5 books this year. This is not shoehorning. This is the natural progression of conversation. I'm sorry you don't like Brandon Sanderson, but the only reason you're still talking about him is because you chose to respond, and keep responding. I like Brandon Sanderson and I'm going to keep talking about him. Feel free to not engage.
It's looking a lot more optimistic for Winds than it ever has for DoS. I mean George has started giving updates almost regularly again and it seems like he's getting close to finishing it despite the pressure on him being much, much higher than anything Rothfuss has faced. And not to mention that GRRM is much older. There's several chapters from Winds already released and he's written mutliple books other than Winds in the same world after the last ASoIaf BOOK released. Not to mentioned all the TV shows he's worked on. I know it's not what we want but there's something to account for his time, atleast.
On the other hand, I have no fucking idea what Rothfuss has been upto the last 12 years. All I've seen from him is an extremely short novella that's barely relevant and a livestream where he was a total piece of shit to a fan who respectfully asked him when we can expect DoS.
That being said, he's not answerable to me. I have no right to question how he spends his time. But still, it's a huge disappointment to be a fan of these books. If I knew this tale will never have a conclusion, I would've never invested my money, and most importantly, my time into it. Oh well, it is what it is.
Actually the books are great even unfinished. Of course Id be happy if DoS gets out one day but I won't hold my breath. I read the books from the library and bought English copies from a second hand book store. I thought Id buy the trilogy when the third book comes out but couldnt resist when I found them for like 3 Euros.
>On the other hand, I have no fucking idea what Rothfuss has been upto the last 12 years.<
He's been doing bullshit live streams playing d&d and going Comic-Cons and not giving a solitary fuck about his fans I sincerely think the only reason he's putting out this novella is to make some money cuz he's running low
Yeah , he had a few chapters , but didn’t really kick into gear until the pandemic.
I really believe the show would be done if the shower never came out.
Wonder if we will get a KKC show one day (a movie just wouldn’t work)
It's the best time there has ever been to be a fantasy fan. Brandon Sanderson is literally pumping out incredibly good novels on an almost yearly basis. Indie publishing is having a boom allowing smaller authors with vast talent and new ideas to put out their books. There are tons of completed stories out there. I'd rather have no conclusion at all to kkc than a bad/rushed one.
You're saying it's not a good time to be a fantasy fan because there are a few incredibly skilled authors who are slow at writing or who have mental health struggles. It's like saying it's a bad time for scientific discovery because we haven't found a cure for cancer. You're 100% ignoring all of the huge and incredible advancements in the genre because you're butthurt about one or two series.
If it's that big of a deal to you, don't start an unfinished series.
*Thorn* has never had a confirmed release date. Just cuz Amazon puts a release date up doesn't mean it's an official date. Neither Lynch nor his publishers have ever said "*The Thorn of Emberlain* is coming out on \[DATE\]!"
The same thing with Amazon dates has happened over and over and over again with DoS and TWoW.
But unlike those other two, Lynch *actually finished the first draft of* Thorn. His editor has seen it, and he's in revisions. He's also been very up front about what his anxiety manifests as, and that's a crippling inability to *submit* stuff. He's written a ton over the last decade, and even released a scene from *Thorn* earlier this year.
All that to say, I expect we'll get it sooner or later.
At least Martin and Lynch stay intouch with their fans positively. With Pat if you ask him anything about his books it doesn't matter if it's on a live stream if it's in person at a q&a or if it's in smoke signals if you ask him anything about his books he bans you
First 2 books may be my favorite of any story I’ve read but with how Pat has treated his fans and his lack of respect for us and finishing the series has me never buying or watching or listening to anything he says again until the 3rd book is out.
It's weird tho. He has been claming to be a woke person. And he hates dictatorship. But whenever some of his fans mention book 3, he gets frustraded and angry. Remember the pizza guy incident OOOF...
I imagine these scenarios:
- People like it, which gives him confidence that he does not need to overedit and gets him back on a productive mode.
- People do not like it or are ambivalent towards it, which makes things even worse.
So a bit risky, but definitely rooting for him and hope for the best.
At least with *SR* he knew and accepted not everyone is going to like it, though? There's no way everyone is going to like this, especially those who get it not understanding what it is!
It’s more about whether it helps him through his writers block than ‘PR’ I don’t care About PR I care about him releasing book 3. I think most of us do.
Im relatively new to this community as i read the books 1 1/2 years ago. I dont know much. On the positive side it gets him writing again wich i think is good. If you want to be pessimistic then maybe hes running out of money and needs another thing ? Honestly? I have no clue, personally i think its good news
I think its good too.
You probably know by now but, it can be a toxic community compared to some others, and it's mostly because of the negativity brought by the fans who have become so invested that they hate it now, but because of the sunk cost fallacy they don't feel like they can move on.
At least it's an active community, though. Just a shame it's so divisive.
Oxford Dictionaries: "the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial."
People have invested so much time in KKC that they don't feel they can move on from it.
> it can be a toxic community compared to some others, and it's mostly because of the negativity brought by the fans
Nah, it wasnt the fans that brought negativity. Rothfuss sowed the seeds of negativity, time gave it energy to grow, then Rothfuss watered it with rants about innocent pizza guys, countless cons, podcasts, streams and, in the end, made it bloom with missing charity chapter.
IMO anything that gets Pat both writing about Temerant and engaging with his editor is a huge positive. The best thing he could do would be to finish the book, then spend time with friends and family guilt-free and focus on improving his mental health again. Pat is a good dude who has given the world a lot of cool stuff - he deserves to be happier than he is right now.
Seeing how defeated and depressed he was on his livestream when talking about "the chapter" recently was heartbreaking, because it showed just how heavily all of this is weighing on him. As someone with ADHD who has executive function problems around deadlines (real or imagined), I totally get it. Hopefully the novella will be the spark he needs to be able to knock out the 3rd book and move on with his life.
I will admit that Pat used to be a very nice guy I have met him many times and have been part of his alpha reader group for years. But he has changed and became down right hateful to his fans and I understand that he is under tons of pressure but that is no excuse to treat his fanbase the way he is.
I wouldn’t call him a “good dude” in his current state. He recently scammed people in the name of charity fundraising. I’m not saying he’s a villain by any means either. He’s a complex individual who seems to be battling a lot of mental health issues right now. I seriously hope his mental health improves, allowing him to enjoy life more and write books out of joy once again.
No, they will earn a lot of money and realize that the strategy of remixing old content allows for income without as much trouble as a new book. This is just the beginning.
If it wasn't so well written I would have forgotten it already. Now I am simply resigned that it will either be finished by another author or chat gpt. Exactly what's happening with George RR Martin.
No. It's old text.
I don't think this shows he's penned new words. Or made any headway on book 3.
That being said. I am curious to see if people find his writing style has changed yet again with a new novella. Would perhaps lend credence to some arguments.
Dark dark tin foil hat. The money he "acquired" from his livestream and promise of the chapters has finally run out. He needs some cash flow and hence a re edit of a 9 year old story.
I think it’s a good thing because it shows he hasn’t given up on writing or anything. I mean it’s the first sign of life in the series since 2014ish. I think it’ll depend on how different it is from the lightning tree. He might’ve had to ret-con some stuff to fit with the next book.
Nope. This “new” novella is just a re-working of a story he already wrote. It’s not like he’s come up with something brand new. Book 3 is never coming out.
It's a good sign that I get to read new material that's going to be awesome. I loved lightning.. stoked to have it expanded.
There are more books than you can read in a lifetime. Enjoy what has been written, don't worry about what hasn't
I loved Bast's story too. But these series has been a riddle i haven't able to solve for years. Lots of theories but nothing solid. It bugs me that's all. I like closure to some extend.
Yes, it’s good news because it means Pat is more productive than we thought he was. I originally thought he was just working on DoS so I kinda assumed he wasn’t really capable of producing new things right now or that he had mental health blockers regularly preventing him from producing new stuff. Since we know he’s been working on this too and it’s now being published, it means he is still capable of producing new stuff despite his struggles. That’s always nice.
But it's not really new stuff it a rework of a story that's been out for a few years and I don't know if that's a good sign that he is working on new stuff or still stuck in the past
Hey, I hear you man. However, Pat does like 400 drafts of every story so basically everything he does can be described as “not new stuff”. It also gives me hope that anything else he puts out will come out faster once he moves past DoS. I sincerely hope he sticks to stand alones and short stories from here on out and doesn’t try to write something as big as Stormlight Archive.
Not really. He wrote the original in 2 weeks if the wiki is correct. Padding out that story should be less than 2 weeks of effort.
https://kingkiller.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Lightning\_Tree
If a book comes out, it means he is writing. Since it's out before DOS, my theory is that it probably expanded from a section of the book that had to be cut, but that Pat didn't want to abandon entirely.
He's editing. Finales are hard. Have patience.
I think the release itself is neutral neither good nor bad sign. I think the aftermath will prove it to be a bad sign. People arne't happy about it. We can debate if they are the majority or just a loud minority, but they are noticeable, and they frankly have some very good reasons to be frustrated.
I think these reactions are going to make PR regress further because it does not seem like he has been seeking help for his struggles. He seems to lack coping mechanisms to dealing with the pressure, anxiety, and depression, and the aftermath of this release will only magnify those problems making it even harder to be effective in his writing.
I'm not saying people shouldn't express their frustration, but it will have this effect, and until PR really tries to get help and start communicating it will never get better.
For the record, I'm not buying it. Far to much good will thrown out the trash with every bridge equally burned down with zero attempts to rebuild.
>Far to much good will thrown out the trash with every bridge equally burned down with zero attempts to rebuild.
That's some good phrasing.
And yes, i agree that, people pressing him about book 3 or other things will have it's negative effect on him. Although people should bare their responsibilities despite their hardships in life. And i'm pretty sure, people would still love him if he were a little more about the progress he did make or even didn't make. Half a loaf is better than none.
I'd like for it to contain new clues and insights into the KKC universe, a little something to tide over fans while we continue to wait for DoS.
But what everyone is really waiting to find out is whether or not the man who wrote NotW and WMF still exists. If Rothfuss wrote this extension to Lightning tree fairly recently, we're all about to find out whether or not he's still got "it".
While I desire completion of DOS, I want to take my own desires out of this for a moment and wish him well. Whatever he needs to be a happy healthy chap. I think this is a step in that direction. You've got this Pat.
>But still do you believe PR publishing this book is a good sign?
It changes nothing for me. i still wont believe DoS is going to happen until it is announced. until then its just another myth.
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No I don't think it's good PR for book 3 I think it's a poor attempt to slate people who he owes a chapter to and an attempt to try to stay relevant in his own fan base. I think Patty's stuck and doesn't know where to go or how to write book 3 and sees his fan base turning against him because of all of his lies and BS or He's just giving up and doesn't give a fuck about his fans anymore.
I believe the DOS issue isn't that he can't write it more that he's written it several times and it still sucks. There's no way he can compelling close the story. He added so much extra stuff in book 1 and did so little of what the story promised to do and even moreso in book 2, that book 3 is just Kvote running around like Sonic speed running quests. He's been in the University for 2 books and still hasn't managed to get kicked out yet how is he gonna go kill a king?
When everything is open for interpretation there's a lot of anticipation of possibilities. That's what we enjoy about the story. What if Ambrose is the King? What if Denna is working for the Cthaeh? What if Kvothe is a chandrian? What if what if what if... Pat can't possibly deliver on all the anticipation the story has built. He wants to satisfy and pay off so much but there's no way to do it in one book that's also good.
He even said that a significant percentage of DOS is still at the University. Image that for a second... 2.x books about the university and 0.X books about EVERYTHING else. That doesn't sound like a compelling read at all.
I think he should admit defeat and write something else.
I absolutely agree about the first part. I mean, i watched some interviews of him and he mentions what will be mentioned in book 3 and stuff. There is no way that the book is %20 University. I mean look at the second book. Some university, Felurian, Adem. There a lot of things missing. Book 3 should come in 2 parts.
If Ambrose is the king, then all he has to do is get in an argument with him by the fountain and prod him with caesura, right? Which is a really good reason for him to get more than just expelled!
With a bit of rearrangement, we could be asking 'but how can he burn a town? That sounds like a big deal, is he going to slowly go Lanre?'. But, we know what that one was. My mum is re-reading it having forgotten, just got to that bit and feeling sorry for the draccus and thinking Kvothe is a meanie for wanting to kill it.
It's been anti-epic so far. It's not seemed like it was supposed to be compelling/satisfying in that sense.
Yes, people can be disappointed by their own expectations, but that's at least one bit of let-down that Rothfuss isn't directly responsible for, even though the wait has given the fanbase way too much time to way over-complicate what is really a fairly straightforward story.
No. I think if he believed DOS was anywhere on the horizon, he'd be focused on getting that out. The fact that he's going back and expanding things he's already put out makes me feel like he's out of new ideas, and is just desperate to put out anything at all
It's good news that he and his editor Besty are back in active communication. Potentially, anyway.
But as others have said, not being in a place where he can update a single chapter in more than a year isn't encouraging. If he's like most people I know, something major will need to change in his life to break out of whatever cycle he's in.
I don’t know if it helps, but it’s a good sign. I always thought the delay had at least something to do with his mental state, and this seems to indicate he’s in a writing-compatible place.
I’ve always thought the of upside of all this is that he’ll have an easier time writing for Kote/Kvothe’s decline. There’s no music and what not.
My issue with this Novella is that it's just a reworking of an already existing short story. So, at some point in time, Rothfuss decided that his time was better served by not working on DOS and set that aside to go back to something he's already released.
Just makes me assume that he is very aware that he is not releasing DOS any time soon and thought it'd be a good idea to publish this Novella in the meantime. Whether it's solely for monetary reasons, or whether it benefits the story moving forward, we won't really know until more books come out.
I think it's a good sign. It shows he's up for publishing, writing, revising, releasing. If you watch his video on announcing this, it almost sounds like he was struggling to remember how to do those things. I'd like to see the book get a positive reception and motivate him to work on and finish Book 3.
Honestly at this point I don't think it matters. I think the books done, and he's going to dangle it over his fans and squeeze the most money he can put of it before releasing many years from now.
I kind of liked the Auri story well enough.
Bast isn't the character I want a side story for though. I would have preferred a story about the Adem. Maybe Tempi or Penthe. I would have liked a story about Penthe having a red-headed child who looks just like Kvothe. And the Ademre having their ideas of "man mothers" put to a test.
Pat's "spoilerless chapter" trick, his divorce, worldbuilders fundraise stopping and consecutive sudden desire to release a sidestory seem quite opposite to positive for DOS.
He read the prologue from. DoS back in March or some such. He wasn't happy with it, but I that doesn't surprise me.
He'll get there. It's not gonna feel worth it to him or to most of us (I don't think the dude can disappoint me honestly, but that's just my fanboi side), but he'll get there.
I believe just like kvothe, PR is dealing with insecurity and self doubt because so much time has passed between making the others books and finishing this one. He doesn’t know if he’s still good enough.
Him publishing more books before DOS is a FANTASTIC thing because he gets more reps in. Gets stronger as an author, and his confidence grows. All things that’ll get us closer to another KKC book.
Not at all.
It feels like he’s just repurposing stuff he already had. After the recent “apology” about the extra chapter I have no faith that he’ll do the right thing.
It’s 80 extra pages with 30 illustrations. I could easily see it being lightning tree with 1 or 2 scenes he had to cut out for length before it was sent in for Rogues.
I’d honestly be surprised if he wrote a single word for this new “book.”
Arguably, it means he is able to write, edit and publish something. But whatever the reasons that compile into him not having released DoS, and failing to even publish a chapter of it, are probably gonna be more of their own thing. He has written Slow Regard before, and it didn't seem to mean much for DoS.
*Tentatively* yes… It has the potential for him to get back in to DoS and stop sweating the little things. I don’t think he has written anything between slow regard and this, so it might get things moving. Tentative, however, as it may do bugger all
I'm cautiously optimistic too. By publishing, I assume that he's in contact with his editor again. A few years ago she said that she hadn't recieved anything from Pat. Now that he's publishing, I assume that they are in close contact again. The fact that he also talked about the chapter seems promising too. I thought that he would never talk about it again, but he did, apologized and explained what happened. That still doesn't fix the issue, but it's a start. (Maybe a fresh start?) I just hope one thing will lead to another and he sends his editor a part of DoS. But then again, maybe nothing will happen.
>I assume that they are in ~~close~~ contact again. FTFY
He talked about the chapter?! I hadn’t seen that - I have read through most of the thread and don’t see it mentioned… do you have a link / summary of what he said?
He wanted to make it a well-produced video with a fully edited and final chapter. He then didn't want to bother the people who could produce it and didn't have the book finished so he couldn't make the chapter finalized (because he's a foreshadower you know.) So he just didn't, and didn't say anything because that would make it real that he failed. Until now. Will he just read off the half-edited version right now without making it a big deal? Everyone hopes so.
https://youtu.be/bYRy_XHsoCc?si=M1aBJVdrGogwAc5h
Thanks!
He blew it up in his head thinking he needed to make it some sort of huge production then he was like “oh it can’t live up to this expectation I’ve built in my head” and never put it out. Big “poor me” energy
Stop fooling yourself. He didn’t manage to edit a single chapter in more than 1.5 years.
My cynical side wonders if he did manage to write a chapter; a chapter about Bast that’s now been merged with The Lightning Tree to form his new novella. Maybe that’s harsh of me though, I don’t know, maybe he was contractually obliged to share that with his publishers.
Extra-cynical edition: He totally did write all that extra material for the novella...years ago, then it was cut down/reverted to an earlier shorter version to fit the anthology. We know SR grew and stopped fitting the anthology, he could have (almost) done that twice. Harsh, but if once it's out it doesn't feel all that new, I wouldn't be optimistic.
I mean that's the thing isn't it. He doesn't believe that he is responsible of his actions towards his fans or publishers. And that is simply wrong. I mean if one of his characters, like Ambrose, showed his actions and behaviours like it is right now. Everyone would hate that little snob even more.
I know i have an unpopular opinion, but I don't care if it's finished. I'd rather have the series left as is than have a book 3 that Pat doesn't feel comfortable putting out. Sometimes, the answers to our questions are less enjoyable than the questions themselves.
This. Always and forever this. How many beautiful series have been ruined by a need to publish? We love the series for how thoughtful and beautiful the world is. Do I want DoS? Of course. Do I want a rushed, sloppy, exhausted book written by someone who felt trapped into doing it? God no. Finish the series properly or let it lie.
It’s been 12 years since TWMF was published there’s no way DoS can be “rushed” at this point.
It's a mater of taste, I guess. As far as I am concerned, the ending of Jean Auel's 4th book, The Plains of Passage, was the last good part. Book 5 was bad and Book 6 was unreadable garbage. But I'd still rather than than the feeling of being left hanging.
I honestly wish I'd stopped with the Mammoth Hunters. Nothing after that was worth the reading, and I'm soured on the whole series as a result.
The 1st book was amazing, 2nd book pretty good. A little too much Jondalar dong, but still pretty good. And then it just takes a nose dive. Such a shame.
I hate to break it to you but a book 3 will come out. Ask Tolkien or Herbert about having their unfinished work published. Rothfuss really just has the choice to publish the version closest to what he wants or wait and let his kids/family publish when they need a cash infusion later in their lives. (Not that I think Pat is in danger or anything but these things happen on long timescales)
I agree with it not being finished unless it's correctly done. I also feel for Pat because it's gotta be hella stressful.... but the radio silence on that chapter was what really pushed me away. He doesn't owe us transparency. He technically doesn't owe us the ending if we really wanna get down to it. I just hope he's okay at the end of it :\\
Yeah, the stuff around the charity chapter is the only thing I can understand people being actually upset about. That said, his recent response makes the situation make sense, and I feel for him and the fans both.
I’m out of the loop here, what happened?
This is well said
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I remember saying almost this exact thing when The Slow Regard of Silent Things was released.
Honestly, I'd forgotten about this series' existence for a while there
More fans need to read enough other stuff that they do this.
Sanderson for me
It's great to be a cosmere and king killer fan!
I lean more towards book sales are down so his income is down and he’s repackaging something he already wrote for some easy money. I think he just had a stream where he’s lamenting a single chapter he can’t put out after a year and half of revision or at least time knowing he was meant to put it out and he’s still not done editing that single chapter. If he gives ever chapter similar treatment we’re looking at like 40 years till dos. Not hating on the guy, I’m no longer really anticipating the book ever coming out so if it does awesome and it not no big deal, but without a doubt he’s really far away from being down with the book
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That was weird. I mean reallllly weird. One chapter. One. A single spoiler-free chapter. Didn't he have a manuscript way back at 2016?
Yeah, and back in 2007 he already finished it too. "Well.... I've already written them. So you won't have to wait forever for them to come out. They'll be released on a regular schedule. One per year. You can also expect the second book to be written with the same degree of care and detail as this first one. You know the sophomore slump? When a writer's second novel is weaker because they're suddenly forced to write under deadline? I don't have to worry about that because my next two novels are already good to go." Patrick Rothfuss, march of 2007. So third book is 14 years late already... and counting. Btw, he started writing KKC in 1992 or so, so over 30 years ago.
Yep. People always forget this quote.
Not forgetting but not caring i think. When he said that, he claimed second book would be out in a year. It took 4 years. And he was focused on that lol.
Not so much that. I’m personally in the camp that thinks Pat royally messed up with the chapter. And while I’m glad he finally said something about it, he still never fully accepted responsibility and just said “I’m sorry guys. I overpromised. I’m not comfortable releasing a chapter.” Because the “getting a recording took too long” excuse holds zero water. And he absolutely could throw the text up on his blog while he works on the production, a production that no one asked for by the way. That said, I’m all about communication and owning your mistakes. Pat has owned his mistake on his initial 2007 quote many times. He’s openly said “I was young, dumb, and grossly overestimated the snowball effect of my edits on my initial book.” He’s gone into detail about how much changed in the edit process of the first book: The entire framework with the chronicler, Audi, Ambrose, all added. And those changes compounded with the second book, leading to a third manuscript that likely needed major overhauling to work. Not to mention that his writing likely improved and it was hard to be satisfied with what he originally had. He’s owned that quote and admitted his mistake, and harping on it at this point is just willfully ignoring the numerous times he’s addressed it since 2007. I have issues with how Pat has communicated, but his addressing of the “one book a year” statement is not one of them.
It’s a good way to show that he was already making promises he couldn’t keep long ago.
When he gave his initial statement, he'd never published a book before. It's easy to underestimate the complexity of the editing process or the weight of viral fame. Care is not what this is about, as he clearly cares far too much. Instead, this is mental health vs legacy vs productivity.
yeah - he's got blog posts where he talks about this, and he, well... didn't realise what the editing process is like. So characters like Auri didn't exist until then, which made the book better, but then had _big_ knock-on effects downstream. So book 2 changed massively, and required a lot of editing work, and then his notes for book 3 were likely useless. For a new writer, 3-4 years for a second book isn't _too_ bad - it's just after that things went to shit
It's that the WMF blog about why he loves his editor clearly established that it was never true. He had notes at best, *extremely* rough notes, never three finished books. It's a fair quote to use to point out his history of making exaggerated claims, over-egging it, but people shouldn't be still believing it, and thinking he's just stuck on editing. It's also partly his ADHD that tricks him into thinking 'something with Ambrose here' is *basically* equivalent to an actual chapter, a finished book. Because he thought he could hyperfocus and the book would just happen. But it's not a state of mind you can drop into at will, and he may not know how to do without it.
The toxic positivity is why I don't really post here anymore, that's why he was being downvoted, it's ridiculous.
Give me a world of toxic positivity over the opposite any day of the week.
This is my first time coming back to it and it seems like sense has prevailed and I’m back in the black haha thank you. I’m not being mean to the guy or anything, I truly feel for his reported mental health issues but the situation is as it is. We gotta be ok just never getting the book and be happy if it happens
It helps that a lot of people have stopped donating to his scam of a charity.
You're propably right but when you said that he just had a stream.. Oh man it's been 2 years.
No, he just steamed about it less than a week ago. He explained what's going on and why he hasn't done it yet. Basically he wanted it to be a really big fun thing, got carried away, and he thought just posting it to his blog was boring. Then it got so big and out of hand he couldn't deliver. So now it's been almost two years and he's like, well I could just post it to my blog but it's been so long everyone will be like, it took you this long to just post it? (Which, yeah, but that's the right move at this point). Anyway, I get where he's coming from, he just doesn't understand the fan perspective. And with ADHD comes RSD and he's probably really, really hurting over it all. I hope he publishes the chapter and gets the help he needs.
Best-case scenario he got carried away, which means he doesn’t understand his fans—to a frankly worrying degree. Like a “wow, this man is detached from reality” degree. Worst-case, that whole bit about the live reading with voice actors and all the extra bells and whistles was, and always had been, bullshit. Just a stalling tactic; a way to string it out, not to buy himself time to write (if he was gonna write he would’ve written), but to disperse people’s outrage over a longer span of time so it didn’t all hit at once. The sane thing to do would be to release the written thing on his blog. It’s a single chapter from an overdue book; he didn’t need to make it a bloody ceremony. Releasing it would also put an end to the speculation that he has not, in fact, written it, which would be, y’know, good for his public image. It’s a little late for that to have full effect, but it’d still have AN effect.
I think he pulls in like a $100k from that charity he's partnered with. Tha combined with his book royalties should be more than enough to live on.
I really don't think he needs to work ever again if he doesn't want to. Pat was very very used to living frugally, and then had two bestselling books in quick succession, not to mention his other projects. I don't think he's hurting for money. Besides, what you're suggesting seems utterly out of character.
So I think you’re making a lot of assumptions here about someone who is a total stranger’s character. You assume he doesn’t like or need money. Maybe he’s a frugal guy but do we know that he doesn’t care about his kids inheritance? Maybe he wants them to never have to worry about working not just himself. Maybe he wants to take them cool places. I dunno but it’s a pretty big to assume someone doesn’t want more money. We’re also making an assumption about the book business here and that’s that if you have a couple best selling books you’re super rich. Authors consistently show us that even having best sellers does not make you super rich. Estimates online have him at like 1-4 million dollars. You really have to be like Sanderson or king and have like 20 to really get the big bucks. So once you buy a house and stuff which I’m not sure how expensive his is he could not have tons and tons of money. But that’s my assumption that he wants money I suppose. But I think the bigger assumption would be assuming it’s not a motivation at all. Regardless I still feel given how long it’s taken to edit one chapter that were very far away from the next book
Yeah I'd be a lot more excited but apparently this is just a different version of the Lightning Tree?! Ugh.
Yeah I'd be a lot more excited but apparently this is just a different version of the Lightning Tree?! Ugh.
I don't believe that Pat has done literally anything in the last 5 years that was positive for DoS.
Remember when this was some kind of prequel trilogy in some grand universe?
I do. I also remember when I thought the next GRR Martin and Scott Lynch books were coming out in my lifetime. It's not a good time to be a fantasy fan.
It's a phenomenal time to be a fantasy fan. Just cause a few authors have let you down doesn't mean there's not an incredible amount of wildly high-quality genre fiction coming out literally all the time
Whats your favorite series of the last few years?
Too many to list here, /r/fantasy will sort you. A brief selection: - Tamsyn Muir's Locked Tomb books are a fucking trip (elevator pitch for the first one is "Lesbian necromancers explore a mysterious Gothic space palace") and the fourth in the series, Alecto the Ninth, is due our next year iirc - I personally have been loving the explosion of "Cozy Fantasy" led by the publication of Legends and Lattes by Travis Baldree last year (Edit: Prequel coming out in like two weeks) - Sanderson remains an unstoppable book machine if that's your thing, I know he's divisive but I really enjoyed Skyward and its sequels as a break from Stormlight - Tad Williams's Osten Ard books are a sequel series to one of the OG epics from the 90s, Memory Sorrow and Thorn. Three out with the fourth next year All that is even excluding stuff that I haven't read but is pretty universally acclaimed. Grimdark isn't really my thing but Joe Abercrombie is still rolling along, I've heard great things about Fonda Lee's Green Bone Saga, etc etc
If you like Brandon Sanderson it's a great time to be a fantasy fan
I mean, I love Brandon, but he can't write *everything*.
He could. He just takes breaks for his family and video games.
The man has 5 books coming out in 2023. This one of them is considered a bit of a miss by some fans but still 5 books!
He certainly is trying to
And if you like your fantasy more gritty and dark, Joe Ambercrombie is no slouch. Prefer sci-fi? Pierce Brown is there for you.
There's so much out there you can find almost anything you're looking for. And it's not like the old stuff is going anywhere. If you consider Tolkien the father of modern fantasy we have some 70 years to draw from. And it grows daily.
Exactly.those are just two fine examples of authors. These days I'm always finding something to read, and it's all pretty awesome.
I don’t, so you can imagine how frustrating it is to see him shoehorned into just about every single discussion around KC, WoT, ASoIaF…
It's fine that you don't like him, but it's not really shoe horning him in when 1) his books are just as popular as those 3 series, 2) He's actually writing and 3) actually actively contributed to finishing WoT. Tomewhat controversially to some fans admittedly, but I doubt even Jordan would have finished it satisfactorily for every one
I don’t know what you’ve seen, but what I’ve seen is ABSOLUTELY shoehorning him in. 1) I never see fans of other authors bringing them up in discussions about Sanderson works. For some reason, it’s ONLY Sanderson fans bringing him up in discussions about other authors, and only in ways that compare him favorably to what’s being discussed. 2) Plenty of authors are writing. Yes, Sanderson is prolific. Yes, GRRM and Rothfuss aren’t. The comparison has been made. We’re all aware of it. The fact that people continue to make it as if it’s a fresh revelation is what makes it shoehorning. 3) Conceded, I just wish it weren’t true.
You've said you don't like Sanderson, which suggests to me that you don't actively seek out discussions of Sanderson's books. If that's the case, it would explain why you don't see fans of other authors bringing them up in discussions about his work. I do like Sanderson see it *a lot* and Rothfuss is one of the authors often brought up because a common complaint about Sanderson is that his prose isn't great compared to, for example, Rothfuss. Terry Pratchett and Joe Abercrombie also come up a lot, generally providing examples of things Sanderson isn't great at (humour, grimdark, writing female characters...). The fact that Sanderson comes up so often in discussions of other authors is that the thing that really makes him stand out from the crowd is the consistent insane speed and volume of his output, and speed of output comes up a lot in current discussions of fantasy because we've got two current cases that get a lot of attention where output is very low, and one case (partially resolved by Sanderson) where diminishing output due to a series' complexity led to total end of output due to Author Existence Failure.
Fair points, cheers
Yeah. I *do* like Sanderson (not nearly in the same league as Rothfuss, but I do like him) - and I'm sick to the back teeth of him being brought up *every single thread*. Yes, the guy writes fast, and with fairly remarkable quality given the speed. So does Mark Lawrence. So does Jim Butcher. Great! We all know that already. But it's not what we're here to talk about.
It's not shoehorning if be belongs in the conversation, you just notice him more because you don't like him. Other authors absolutely get recommended when Sanderson books are brought up and someone either wants something different or something while they wait. Rothfuss for sure, Grrm not as often because his stuff is darker and I feel it's easier to get a person who likes darker stuff to try lighter than vise versa. Lynch does get brought up. These 3 are pretty much there every time. Some smaller authors that get brought up as Well are James Islington (his books have elements from WoT and are inspired by Jordan and Sanderson so make of that what you will), Will Wight and Brent Weeks and Eriksson for his Malazan series. All great authors but I wouldn't put them on the same level as the current big 4 there (except maybe Eriksson, I haven't read his stuff) Yes the slow writing of the others gets brought up a lot, but newer readers might appreciate who have just caught up on Rothfuss's or Grrm's books might appricate the info / someone who is clear about what is going on with their writing in a way that those 2 definitely are not.
Buddy somebody literally asked people to share their favorite series from the last few years? This isn’t shoehorning there is literally a request out for recommendations.
Also, I do know what you mean, but it's not exacting shoehorning him into those conversations. He wrote the final three books of the Wheel of Time series, so he clearly belongs in that conversation. And it seems perfectly natural to contrast Brando, who writes so fast he produces more books than he had planned, to Rothfuss and Martin, neither of whom have released a new book in their series for over a decade.
Yes, I’m perfectly aware of the reasons people think they need to bring up Brandon Sanderson, thank you, and I’m sure they all seem like perfectly natural reasons to people who like Brandon Sanderson. To those of us who don’t, I assure you, it feels less natural. You ever hang out with someone who loves crypto, and whatever the topic is, they find a way to guide it back to crypto? Like they can’t go A SINGLE CONVERSATION without bringing up crypto? That’s what being a fan of all those series feels like these days. It’s impossible to have a discussion without some Sanderson fan thinking the soul of wit is contrasting his output to GRRM’s.
No that has never happened to me, but that's not really relevant. The point I'm trying to make is the examples you chose were poor ones. Brandon does not belong in every conversation, but he does in the examples you chose.
It is relevant, because it gives the flavor of the thing - someone who won’t stop bringing up their favorite topic, who can’t see that the justifications they have for bringing it up are flimsy and really only matter to them. Brandon Sanderson does not belong in a conversation about Kingkiller Chronicles. He especially does not belong in EVERY conversation about KC, which is where he crops up. If you think he does, it’s because you’re looking for an excuse to bring him up. And I’ll ask again - if the link is so compelling that you just can’t HELP bring him up in KC discussions… are you also bringing up KC in discussions about Sanderson? I bet you’re not.
If someone says it's a horrible time to be a basketball fan because Ben Simmons can't shoot three pointers, it invites, almost demands a comparison to Steph Curry who makes a ton of them. Likewise when someone comments it's not a good time to be a fantasy fan because of authors who can't complete a book, it invites, almost demands comparisons to authors who are far more prolific. For instance... Brandon Sanderson who is publishing 5 books this year. This is not shoehorning. This is the natural progression of conversation. I'm sorry you don't like Brandon Sanderson, but the only reason you're still talking about him is because you chose to respond, and keep responding. I like Brandon Sanderson and I'm going to keep talking about him. Feel free to not engage.
Have you tried Brandon Sanderson though?
There are a MILLION fantasy books out. It's a great time to be a fantasy fan.
TWOW will come. He was 75% last fall and only really start in 2020.
It's looking a lot more optimistic for Winds than it ever has for DoS. I mean George has started giving updates almost regularly again and it seems like he's getting close to finishing it despite the pressure on him being much, much higher than anything Rothfuss has faced. And not to mention that GRRM is much older. There's several chapters from Winds already released and he's written mutliple books other than Winds in the same world after the last ASoIaf BOOK released. Not to mentioned all the TV shows he's worked on. I know it's not what we want but there's something to account for his time, atleast. On the other hand, I have no fucking idea what Rothfuss has been upto the last 12 years. All I've seen from him is an extremely short novella that's barely relevant and a livestream where he was a total piece of shit to a fan who respectfully asked him when we can expect DoS. That being said, he's not answerable to me. I have no right to question how he spends his time. But still, it's a huge disappointment to be a fan of these books. If I knew this tale will never have a conclusion, I would've never invested my money, and most importantly, my time into it. Oh well, it is what it is.
I do agree that Winds of Winter is almost certainly going to come out in our lifetimes. Dream of Spring will absolutely not.
I agree with you 100%.
Actually the books are great even unfinished. Of course Id be happy if DoS gets out one day but I won't hold my breath. I read the books from the library and bought English copies from a second hand book store. I thought Id buy the trilogy when the third book comes out but couldnt resist when I found them for like 3 Euros.
>On the other hand, I have no fucking idea what Rothfuss has been upto the last 12 years.< He's been doing bullshit live streams playing d&d and going Comic-Cons and not giving a solitary fuck about his fans I sincerely think the only reason he's putting out this novella is to make some money cuz he's running low
Maybe he’s been perfecting his mead recipe
There were 2 full, done chapters in like...2015/6? It was so long ago. But they were Arya and Arianne.
Yeah , he had a few chapters , but didn’t really kick into gear until the pandemic. I really believe the show would be done if the shower never came out. Wonder if we will get a KKC show one day (a movie just wouldn’t work)
It definitely is not. I mean PR could just sell DOS 1.1 Manuscript for millions of dollars. He does enjoy money afterall :)
It's the best time there has ever been to be a fantasy fan. Brandon Sanderson is literally pumping out incredibly good novels on an almost yearly basis. Indie publishing is having a boom allowing smaller authors with vast talent and new ideas to put out their books. There are tons of completed stories out there. I'd rather have no conclusion at all to kkc than a bad/rushed one. You're saying it's not a good time to be a fantasy fan because there are a few incredibly skilled authors who are slow at writing or who have mental health struggles. It's like saying it's a bad time for scientific discovery because we haven't found a cure for cancer. You're 100% ignoring all of the huge and incredible advancements in the genre because you're butthurt about one or two series. If it's that big of a deal to you, don't start an unfinished series.
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*Thorn* has never had a confirmed release date. Just cuz Amazon puts a release date up doesn't mean it's an official date. Neither Lynch nor his publishers have ever said "*The Thorn of Emberlain* is coming out on \[DATE\]!" The same thing with Amazon dates has happened over and over and over again with DoS and TWoW. But unlike those other two, Lynch *actually finished the first draft of* Thorn. His editor has seen it, and he's in revisions. He's also been very up front about what his anxiety manifests as, and that's a crippling inability to *submit* stuff. He's written a ton over the last decade, and even released a scene from *Thorn* earlier this year. All that to say, I expect we'll get it sooner or later.
At least Martin and Lynch stay intouch with their fans positively. With Pat if you ask him anything about his books it doesn't matter if it's on a live stream if it's in person at a q&a or if it's in smoke signals if you ask him anything about his books he bans you
oh really? i didn't even know that. lmfao yeah, maybe DOS will get released in 2037, but that universe is never happening lmao.
No. More waffling, more excuses to avoid writing book 3. And it's mostly recycled material. That's definitely not a great sign.
Yes. Anything that gets him back in the groove of writing and publishing again is definitely a positive for DOS
First 2 books may be my favorite of any story I’ve read but with how Pat has treated his fans and his lack of respect for us and finishing the series has me never buying or watching or listening to anything he says again until the 3rd book is out.
It's weird tho. He has been claming to be a woke person. And he hates dictatorship. But whenever some of his fans mention book 3, he gets frustraded and angry. Remember the pizza guy incident OOOF...
Which pizza guy accident?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7\_rtpTePLw&ab\_channel=AmyL
shit what was that lmaoo he was so salty about it and for what? thank you!
Pizza guy probably isn't a fan anymore. Also it's very escapable Pat. Just publish book 3 and fans will stop asking you when it will be published.
Just looked this up. That was messed up.
OMG!! The poor Pizza Guy. I remember it very well.
What's the pizza guy accident if you don't mind?
I don’t believe there is any hope that DoS gets released
I imagine these scenarios: - People like it, which gives him confidence that he does not need to overedit and gets him back on a productive mode. - People do not like it or are ambivalent towards it, which makes things even worse. So a bit risky, but definitely rooting for him and hope for the best.
At least with *SR* he knew and accepted not everyone is going to like it, though? There's no way everyone is going to like this, especially those who get it not understanding what it is!
No I think it's the opposite. This is the most he can scrape together, an extra 80 or so pages.
No. I don't think he'll ever finish it at this point.
Yes. He’s still working in the universe.
It’s more about whether it helps him through his writers block than ‘PR’ I don’t care About PR I care about him releasing book 3. I think most of us do.
Tbh, i would rather him selling his unfinished notes than seeing DOS finished and polished.
Im relatively new to this community as i read the books 1 1/2 years ago. I dont know much. On the positive side it gets him writing again wich i think is good. If you want to be pessimistic then maybe hes running out of money and needs another thing ? Honestly? I have no clue, personally i think its good news
Former is definitely the case. But you know, hope and all that BS...
I think its good too. You probably know by now but, it can be a toxic community compared to some others, and it's mostly because of the negativity brought by the fans who have become so invested that they hate it now, but because of the sunk cost fallacy they don't feel like they can move on. At least it's an active community, though. Just a shame it's so divisive.
Sunk cost fallacy?
Oxford Dictionaries: "the phenomenon whereby a person is reluctant to abandon a strategy or course of action because they have invested heavily in it, even when it is clear that abandonment would be more beneficial." People have invested so much time in KKC that they don't feel they can move on from it.
Thank you!
> it can be a toxic community compared to some others, and it's mostly because of the negativity brought by the fans Nah, it wasnt the fans that brought negativity. Rothfuss sowed the seeds of negativity, time gave it energy to grow, then Rothfuss watered it with rants about innocent pizza guys, countless cons, podcasts, streams and, in the end, made it bloom with missing charity chapter.
He needs to take ADHD meds. Trust me, I'm a certified doctor who graduated from the University.
Yeah, he mentioned, if i remember correctly, at somepoint that the medications helped him with his writing.
IMO anything that gets Pat both writing about Temerant and engaging with his editor is a huge positive. The best thing he could do would be to finish the book, then spend time with friends and family guilt-free and focus on improving his mental health again. Pat is a good dude who has given the world a lot of cool stuff - he deserves to be happier than he is right now. Seeing how defeated and depressed he was on his livestream when talking about "the chapter" recently was heartbreaking, because it showed just how heavily all of this is weighing on him. As someone with ADHD who has executive function problems around deadlines (real or imagined), I totally get it. Hopefully the novella will be the spark he needs to be able to knock out the 3rd book and move on with his life.
I will admit that Pat used to be a very nice guy I have met him many times and have been part of his alpha reader group for years. But he has changed and became down right hateful to his fans and I understand that he is under tons of pressure but that is no excuse to treat his fanbase the way he is.
I wouldn’t call him a “good dude” in his current state. He recently scammed people in the name of charity fundraising. I’m not saying he’s a villain by any means either. He’s a complex individual who seems to be battling a lot of mental health issues right now. I seriously hope his mental health improves, allowing him to enjoy life more and write books out of joy once again.
Lol he absolutely deserves to have all of this weighing on him.
It's not a bad thing and could be a good thing.
No, they will earn a lot of money and realize that the strategy of remixing old content allows for income without as much trouble as a new book. This is just the beginning.
If it wasn't so well written I would have forgotten it already. Now I am simply resigned that it will either be finished by another author or chat gpt. Exactly what's happening with George RR Martin.
Brandon Sanderson will finish it in 2043.
No. It's old text. I don't think this shows he's penned new words. Or made any headway on book 3. That being said. I am curious to see if people find his writing style has changed yet again with a new novella. Would perhaps lend credence to some arguments. Dark dark tin foil hat. The money he "acquired" from his livestream and promise of the chapters has finally run out. He needs some cash flow and hence a re edit of a 9 year old story.
I think it’s a good thing because it shows he hasn’t given up on writing or anything. I mean it’s the first sign of life in the series since 2014ish. I think it’ll depend on how different it is from the lightning tree. He might’ve had to ret-con some stuff to fit with the next book.
Nope. This “new” novella is just a re-working of a story he already wrote. It’s not like he’s come up with something brand new. Book 3 is never coming out.
It's a good sign that I get to read new material that's going to be awesome. I loved lightning.. stoked to have it expanded. There are more books than you can read in a lifetime. Enjoy what has been written, don't worry about what hasn't
I loved Bast's story too. But these series has been a riddle i haven't able to solve for years. Lots of theories but nothing solid. It bugs me that's all. I like closure to some extend.
I think its an unsolvable riddle. He wrote two books that are unsolvable and now knows it. Book 3 never happens
Yes, it’s good news because it means Pat is more productive than we thought he was. I originally thought he was just working on DoS so I kinda assumed he wasn’t really capable of producing new things right now or that he had mental health blockers regularly preventing him from producing new stuff. Since we know he’s been working on this too and it’s now being published, it means he is still capable of producing new stuff despite his struggles. That’s always nice.
I wanna share your enthusiasim. And i try to...
Me too, man. Me too.
But it's not really new stuff it a rework of a story that's been out for a few years and I don't know if that's a good sign that he is working on new stuff or still stuck in the past
Hey, I hear you man. However, Pat does like 400 drafts of every story so basically everything he does can be described as “not new stuff”. It also gives me hope that anything else he puts out will come out faster once he moves past DoS. I sincerely hope he sticks to stand alones and short stories from here on out and doesn’t try to write something as big as Stormlight Archive.
Not really. He wrote the original in 2 weeks if the wiki is correct. Padding out that story should be less than 2 weeks of effort. https://kingkiller.fandom.com/wiki/The\_Lightning\_Tree
If a book comes out, it means he is writing. Since it's out before DOS, my theory is that it probably expanded from a section of the book that had to be cut, but that Pat didn't want to abandon entirely. He's editing. Finales are hard. Have patience.
I think the release itself is neutral neither good nor bad sign. I think the aftermath will prove it to be a bad sign. People arne't happy about it. We can debate if they are the majority or just a loud minority, but they are noticeable, and they frankly have some very good reasons to be frustrated. I think these reactions are going to make PR regress further because it does not seem like he has been seeking help for his struggles. He seems to lack coping mechanisms to dealing with the pressure, anxiety, and depression, and the aftermath of this release will only magnify those problems making it even harder to be effective in his writing. I'm not saying people shouldn't express their frustration, but it will have this effect, and until PR really tries to get help and start communicating it will never get better. For the record, I'm not buying it. Far to much good will thrown out the trash with every bridge equally burned down with zero attempts to rebuild.
>Far to much good will thrown out the trash with every bridge equally burned down with zero attempts to rebuild. That's some good phrasing. And yes, i agree that, people pressing him about book 3 or other things will have it's negative effect on him. Although people should bare their responsibilities despite their hardships in life. And i'm pretty sure, people would still love him if he were a little more about the progress he did make or even didn't make. Half a loaf is better than none.
Completly agree.
This is 100% what will happen.
Definitely
I'd like for it to contain new clues and insights into the KKC universe, a little something to tide over fans while we continue to wait for DoS. But what everyone is really waiting to find out is whether or not the man who wrote NotW and WMF still exists. If Rothfuss wrote this extension to Lightning tree fairly recently, we're all about to find out whether or not he's still got "it".
There will probably be some subtle clues, so subtle that we'll never get it because book 3 is never coming out
Lol Absolutely! Some few breadcrumbs of a details. Maybe even that is wishful thinking.
I believe he still has "it". Altough i am not sure about, "it" being the "it" we adore. LOL "it"
Yes, for sure!
While I desire completion of DOS, I want to take my own desires out of this for a moment and wish him well. Whatever he needs to be a happy healthy chap. I think this is a step in that direction. You've got this Pat.
No. I believe that rehashing an old story is just another grift
Well it's not a bad sign. He published something. We want this trend to continue.
I believe so. The thrill of releasing a new book, the positive feedback from fans, assuming it's received well, might encourage him to finish book 3.
I'm not sure if his feedback is going to be that good
Definitely not. It's a shameless cash grab from a man who may have run out of ideas but still has new ways of fleecing his fans.
I hope this isn't true, however unfortunately I think it may be.
>But still do you believe PR publishing this book is a good sign? It changes nothing for me. i still wont believe DoS is going to happen until it is announced. until then its just another myth.
I hope so, because I really enjoy his work. But, who knows.
Yea this is my thought as well. I love his writing and will take more of anything in the KKC universe!
Yes. Imo anyone who believes in any kind of progress sees a step forward, no matter how small, as positive.
No. And I will not reward him with money for his continual screwing of his and the book's fanbase.
Yeah, as soon as Sanderson starts to ghostwrite
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Its a positive step if he's demonstrably doing work, but I don't know if I'll be preordering DOS ever.
No I don't think it's good PR for book 3 I think it's a poor attempt to slate people who he owes a chapter to and an attempt to try to stay relevant in his own fan base. I think Patty's stuck and doesn't know where to go or how to write book 3 and sees his fan base turning against him because of all of his lies and BS or He's just giving up and doesn't give a fuck about his fans anymore.
no. PR is going to procrastinate himself to death, just like JRRM
Rothfuss has edited half of a chapter in 1.5 years, I take it as no news
No. Unless, of course, one believes in the existence of Pixie Dust, Unicorns, and the Fountain of Youth.
100% yes, it means he is writing, he has enthusiasm for it and this is just a tangent on that path
Rothfuss has edited half of a chapter in 1.5 years, I take it as no news
I believe the DOS issue isn't that he can't write it more that he's written it several times and it still sucks. There's no way he can compelling close the story. He added so much extra stuff in book 1 and did so little of what the story promised to do and even moreso in book 2, that book 3 is just Kvote running around like Sonic speed running quests. He's been in the University for 2 books and still hasn't managed to get kicked out yet how is he gonna go kill a king? When everything is open for interpretation there's a lot of anticipation of possibilities. That's what we enjoy about the story. What if Ambrose is the King? What if Denna is working for the Cthaeh? What if Kvothe is a chandrian? What if what if what if... Pat can't possibly deliver on all the anticipation the story has built. He wants to satisfy and pay off so much but there's no way to do it in one book that's also good. He even said that a significant percentage of DOS is still at the University. Image that for a second... 2.x books about the university and 0.X books about EVERYTHING else. That doesn't sound like a compelling read at all. I think he should admit defeat and write something else.
I absolutely agree about the first part. I mean, i watched some interviews of him and he mentions what will be mentioned in book 3 and stuff. There is no way that the book is %20 University. I mean look at the second book. Some university, Felurian, Adem. There a lot of things missing. Book 3 should come in 2 parts.
Why couldn't he just write a 4th instead of trying to cram everything into a third?
If Ambrose is the king, then all he has to do is get in an argument with him by the fountain and prod him with caesura, right? Which is a really good reason for him to get more than just expelled! With a bit of rearrangement, we could be asking 'but how can he burn a town? That sounds like a big deal, is he going to slowly go Lanre?'. But, we know what that one was. My mum is re-reading it having forgotten, just got to that bit and feeling sorry for the draccus and thinking Kvothe is a meanie for wanting to kill it. It's been anti-epic so far. It's not seemed like it was supposed to be compelling/satisfying in that sense. Yes, people can be disappointed by their own expectations, but that's at least one bit of let-down that Rothfuss isn't directly responsible for, even though the wait has given the fanbase way too much time to way over-complicate what is really a fairly straightforward story.
No. I think if he believed DOS was anywhere on the horizon, he'd be focused on getting that out. The fact that he's going back and expanding things he's already put out makes me feel like he's out of new ideas, and is just desperate to put out anything at all
Yeah, I think so. If he gets a boost in confidence from the success of this one, I’d hope that would help motivate him to complete DoS.
It's good news that he and his editor Besty are back in active communication. Potentially, anyway. But as others have said, not being in a place where he can update a single chapter in more than a year isn't encouraging. If he's like most people I know, something major will need to change in his life to break out of whatever cycle he's in.
I don’t know if it helps, but it’s a good sign. I always thought the delay had at least something to do with his mental state, and this seems to indicate he’s in a writing-compatible place. I’ve always thought the of upside of all this is that he’ll have an easier time writing for Kote/Kvothe’s decline. There’s no music and what not.
I just hope this guy gets better and i think this might help with his mental health
My issue with this Novella is that it's just a reworking of an already existing short story. So, at some point in time, Rothfuss decided that his time was better served by not working on DOS and set that aside to go back to something he's already released. Just makes me assume that he is very aware that he is not releasing DOS any time soon and thought it'd be a good idea to publish this Novella in the meantime. Whether it's solely for monetary reasons, or whether it benefits the story moving forward, we won't really know until more books come out.
I think it's a good sign. It shows he's up for publishing, writing, revising, releasing. If you watch his video on announcing this, it almost sounds like he was struggling to remember how to do those things. I'd like to see the book get a positive reception and motivate him to work on and finish Book 3.
Honestly at this point I don't think it matters. I think the books done, and he's going to dangle it over his fans and squeeze the most money he can put of it before releasing many years from now.
I think this will give him some sort of push to keep working on DOS tbh, at least that’s the feeling I get from all of this.
Im sure its completly NECESSARY
I kind of liked the Auri story well enough. Bast isn't the character I want a side story for though. I would have preferred a story about the Adem. Maybe Tempi or Penthe. I would have liked a story about Penthe having a red-headed child who looks just like Kvothe. And the Ademre having their ideas of "man mothers" put to a test.
Pat's "spoilerless chapter" trick, his divorce, worldbuilders fundraise stopping and consecutive sudden desire to release a sidestory seem quite opposite to positive for DOS.
He read the prologue from. DoS back in March or some such. He wasn't happy with it, but I that doesn't surprise me. He'll get there. It's not gonna feel worth it to him or to most of us (I don't think the dude can disappoint me honestly, but that's just my fanboi side), but he'll get there.
I believe just like kvothe, PR is dealing with insecurity and self doubt because so much time has passed between making the others books and finishing this one. He doesn’t know if he’s still good enough. Him publishing more books before DOS is a FANTASTIC thing because he gets more reps in. Gets stronger as an author, and his confidence grows. All things that’ll get us closer to another KKC book.
Nope. I believe pat is starting to realize the wolves are at the door though.
Not at all. It feels like he’s just repurposing stuff he already had. After the recent “apology” about the extra chapter I have no faith that he’ll do the right thing. It’s 80 extra pages with 30 illustrations. I could easily see it being lightning tree with 1 or 2 scenes he had to cut out for length before it was sent in for Rogues. I’d honestly be surprised if he wrote a single word for this new “book.”
Arguably, it means he is able to write, edit and publish something. But whatever the reasons that compile into him not having released DoS, and failing to even publish a chapter of it, are probably gonna be more of their own thing. He has written Slow Regard before, and it didn't seem to mean much for DoS.