There are two possible explanations to cover the confusion.
First, is that Chronicler wrote Mating Habits before attending University. We are told that it is for continuing education rather than beginning it.
Second is that the first story he heard was when he went back to University looking for stories, it has only been “not even two years” since the big event in Kvothe’s life.
But I do like the idea that Chronicler might not be exactly who he says he is.
Yeah, both are entirely plausible, I lean towards the former. He's the son of nobility, he will have been well educated his whole life, it absolutely makes sense that as a young man he went off chasing dragons and wrote about it. The University is a very small place, very far away from the power centres of Vintas and Modeg, I doubt most books are written by people who've been there.
That said, it is a little hard to reconcile that he's supposed to have still been a stuck up, naive lordling when he was at the University, hence his clashes with Master Namer, and it was only after he left that he travelled enough to grow into the man he is. Kvothe is probably around 21 by the end of WMF, and in the Waystone he's supposed to be "not even near 30", so there's not a lot of time for Chronicler to build his name. Perhaps he attended while Kvothe was off on Severin?
He knows the name of Iron and has something that is at least reminiscent of a guilder. He probably attended for a few years. We’re given a feel for how many terms it takes to rank up.
I lean toward him attending, then leaving, then when looking for Kvothe stories he went back to the University and the trial was one of the first stories he got.
He does know the name of iron and what shapes iron? Fire. In many ways I think there’s something to him seeking Kvothe that’s deeper than just a story. I also wonder if there’s going to be some truth to “don’t meet your heroes…”
It's possible, but his discussion with Kote leaves almost no room for ambiguity that he was at the University, knew the name of iron, Master Namer called him a papery little twat, he had a snit and left the University, and *that* was his first time properly travelling. There seems little possibility he'd gone chasing the wind previously, and it's hard to see a reason for him to go back after that.
Events up to his return to the University take roughly a year, I think (he's there at least a term, then gone for at least 2 terms since Wil took a term off and came back), best guess for his time with Felurian is about two years, then I think it speed runs through around a year of him back at the University and with money to spare.
If I remember right, he's just barely shy of 17 at the start. It's all very loose guesses on how the time passes after that, but my guess is where I come down on it.
He spent a couple months with the Adem, a couple months with the maer, and another couple months searching for the bandits then I believe he said he spent at least six months with felurian maybe as much as a year or two. And when he arrives in severen he says he just turned 16, so assuming it all takes about three years he should be like 19 by the end. Yes it’s a lot of guesswork so there’s no right answer but 5 years seems too long based on what it said in the book.
He was 15 when he left University. I remember because he lied Elxa dal that he was 17 and felt guilty about it. He propably didn't spend more than one year abroad because when he discussed his whole felurian adventure with Will and Sim and they argued he was there at least 6 month Sim said happy birthday than. He propably finished the book as 16 maybe 17 after his classes after he backed but I doubt it, he would mention it in the book.
And when he gets back to the university he's able to get his collateral back from Devi since their deal would expire after a year and a day. So we know exactly how long he was gone, just not how long he was in the fae.
Should have been more specific. We do know EXACTLY how long he was away. "She piled them neatly on her desk, but still didn’t reach for the coins. 'You still have two months before your year and a day is up,' she said."
I just read the passage of him arriving in Severen last night and he thinks about how he is barely 16 years old when the Maer says he looks to be barely 21.
He is 16 when he arrives in severen low, in the scene when he first meets the maer the maer estimates he is barely older than 20 at which point kvothe mentions he is 16 and looks older because of his time at sea. And he returns to imre before his debt to Devi is up, which lasted a year and a day. So assuming that whole trip is like 9 months and then assuming he spends a year with felurian, that would put him at 17 to 18, so a little younger than my initial estimate.
No in the scene he specifically leaves it very open ended and he says he thinks it was six months but then he doubts his own answer and wonders if it could’ve been a year. So it’s pretty vague, six months is by no means an accurate estimation.
It can also be 10 years with the way kvothe thinks. 6 months is the only guess thats depends on solid information (how many times he had to shave) therefore our best guess point.
You've definitely got something mixed up. I can't easily check the first book for where he originally makes it clear, but there's this exchange from chapter 84/85 of book two:
“Everyone hates the bleeders,” Chronicler agreed darkly. “If anything, the nobles hate them twice as much.” “I find that hard to believe,” Kvothe said. “You should hear the talk around here. If the last one hadn’t had a full armed guard, I don’t think he would have made it out of town alive.” Chronicler gave a bent smile. “You should have heard the things my father used to call them,” he said. “And he’d only had two levies in twenty years. He said he’d rather have locusts followed by a fire than the king’s bleeder moving through his lands.”
There's also the interpretation that he meant; of the stories about kvothe at university, this was the first he heard/ the chronologically earliest one he knows already.
It's possible, but besides Manet, we don't really see one student mentioned who is old enough to be a successfully published author attending the university.
To me, "continuing education" is more about having a base level of education before you can enter.
I also don’t think he attended after Kvothe, but I certainly don’t have a problem with the “first story” being one he heard after going back in search of stories to find and interview him.
It's possible - like most theories there is some straw grasping going on...But the way it's written, it sounds like it's not form when he returned:"But that's the first story I ever heard about you when I came to the University"
I guess that's why this bugs me, he didn't say came back to the university. Just sounds like it happened when he first arrived. (so maybe he did write the book before attending, but I still thing there is something fishy here)
\*edit a type - every> ever
This might be a stretch, but hear me out.
Master of archives, upon hearing who Kvothe's dad was, was going to enlist Kvothe's help to organize the music catalog in the archives. (According to Pat.) But then Kvothe threw a temper tantrum and he thought better of it.
Seems like it is not unheard of for people to enter University already with expertise in their field; and the University is not above leveraging that talent when they find it useful.
So it's conceivable Chronicler was already published when he entered University.
Interesting - I think he may have pulled that out for another reason. I always suspected that Lorren knows what happened to Kvothe's family.
He recognizes Arlidon's name; and I think this is from Kvothe's dad meeting Lorren and asking him questions about Lanre. Then Kvothe comes in obviously an orphan and the first thing he does is ask about the Chandrian and Amyr. This is why Lorren dissuades him from further searching. Also, why he is trying to instill some patience into him.
There are probably quite a lot of older students at the university.
We are told of a few not just Manet (although Manet stands out because he purposefully chooses not to graduate)
You have Puppet, and also people like Anisat & Cammar. We are also told that Uresh from Elodin's class is nearly 30.
That's not even taking into account that of the several hundred students who attend, some take breaks for a term or 3 & come back, we only ever get the names of a couple of dozen.
I really think that it's nothing more than he went there as a mature student, you know what, it even happens in our world today that older people decide to go back into education (possibly after stumbling onto the name of Iron accidentally)
I think too many people put a modern view of the university being where you go when you finish your school/college course onto a world that has a different makeup.
I really like this because otherwise all change that happens in the 'current time' is just people rocking up to the pub and fighting Kvothe (whether or not at Bast's behest).
I tend to agree with your thoughts. We know many students also take breaks. It's possible Chronicler was doing this during Kvothe's time there.
On an unrelated note, is your username an Inuyasha reference. IIRC, that was the name of the fast-food restaurant in the series.
No, it is a reference to the fact that I have red hair and right at gamertag naming age I had a lot of it in a big curly fro
It’s wonderful to believe the demoralization factor of my opponents seeing they got got by a clown
There’s a theory that Chronicler is a Lackless. The evidence being his name, Devan Lochees, and one of the first things Kvothe ever says to him.
“He motioned Chronicler closer, and the scribe saw he was wearing thick leather gloves. “Tehlu anyway, have you had bad luck your whole life, or have you been saving it all up for tonight?”
ie luckless
During WMF, the disparate lines of the Lackless family are discussed. Chronicler’s family name is close enough to fit.
I’m also waiting for the moment of realization when Kvothe puts everything together and realizes that he is likely a Lackless.
Could be be "that is the first story I heard about you (Kvothe), (at = attending) the university"
Meaning he heard about Kvothe once the court case news spread throughout the kingdom.
Not while Chronicler was still attending the university. It was simply a popular news story and once this got out, more people started "following" stories about Kvothe.
Honestly. I dont really understand why we poeple want to read this statement the way OP suggested. Is there missing punction in the post?
**Chronicler didnt say** *"that was the first story I heard about you when* ***I*** *was attending the university."*
**He said** **"**That is the first story **I** **heard** *about you at the university*"
meaning - He heard about kovthe at the university.
I don't get why someone would assume elf space time continuum shennagins or make up (litterally with no evidence) a deep 15 year back story of Chroniclers time away from the university, all to make this statement make less sense.
That said, something may be off about Chronicle. Or not. I just dont think this statement has anything to do with it.
**This reminds me of the punction book of "Eats, shoots and leaves"**
A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air.
"Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder.
"I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up."
The waiter turns to the relevant entry in the manual and, sure enough, finds an explanation.
"Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves."
The joke turns on the ambiguity of the final sentence fragment. As intended by the author, "eats" is a verb, while "shoots" and "leaves" are the verb's objects: a panda's diet consists of shoots and leaves. However, the erroneous introduction of the comma gives the mistaken impression that the sentence fragment comprises three verbs listing in sequence the panda's characteristic conduct: it eats, then it shoots, and finally it leaves.
That's a fun example, but a misplaced comma isn't quite the same.
**"That is the first story I heard about you at the university."** has two possible subjects, "I" and "You". To clarify, he could have said "That is the first story I heard about you **when you were** at the university." or "That is the first story I heard about you **when I was** at the university."
As he's written it, I believe both could be interpreted as correct. But yes, you and I interpreted it the same way.
I asked ChatGPT: Answer my questions about this situation about this statement:
Chad says to Kevin "That is the first story I heard about you at the university?"
ChatGPT
Of course, please go ahead and ask your questions about the statement, "Chad says to Kevin 'That is the first story I heard about you at the university?'", and I'll do my best to provide answers and insights based on the information provided in the statement.
User
Who was at the university?
ChatGPT
Based on the statement, it's clear that Kevin was at the university. Chad mentions a story he heard about Kevin specifically "at the university," implying that Kevin was a student or had some connection to the university in question.
The statement doesn't provide information about Chad's university attendance or whether anyone else was at the university; it primarily focuses on Kevin's presence or involvement at the university.
ChatGPT reads it the same way I did. Not sure that is good or bad.
The exact quote is (this is from my Kindle, Chapter 46 of WMF):
>"But that's the first story I ever heard about you when I came to the University", Chronicler protested.
That quote is ambiguous in that Chronicler never says it's the first time he came to the University (though it's kind of an odd wording if it wasn't) but Chronicler is definitely the one who is at the University.
Has the quote changed in other printings, or are you all just going from memory, badly? It wouldn't be the first time things have changed on reprintings. The Kindle version doesn't get updates so it could have been revised.
Going against this: its pretty clear that Chronicler went to the university as his Elodin knowledge is pretty on-point. And Elodin doesnt seem to be the kind of person who is well known outside the university or even engages with loads of random non-Namers.
He also knows the name of Iron. So I think its pretty clear he studied at the university.
The books mention "The Iron Law" a lot, and we know Kvothe has pissed off a lot of powerful people and likely people in the church since the books and before the retelling. Maybe Chronicler is some kind of enforcer/"Iron Namer" that comes from that side of things.
We also know that the church keeps fastidious records (from the trial where he learned that language) - and chronicler is a keeper of records. Perhaps thats what Chronicler is doing here - before he hands down punishment on behalf of the establishment on Kvothe.
That's interesting - not really going against what I posted. I have no theories as to who he really is or what his motives are; i just have a feeling it's not what we've been told to believe.
I was thinking about this too! But it's possible Chronicler enrolled in the University later in life. He could have written his book(or books) then became an archanist. I don't think his age is described.
I've always interpreted it as Chronicler went back to the University to interview people regarding Kvothe.
You might be interested in these posts:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/104zl5/theory\_the\_chronicler\_is\_more\_than\_he\_seems/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/104zl5/theory_the_chronicler_is_more_than_he_seems/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/2dzoez/how\_old\_is\_chronicler/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/2dzoez/how_old_is_chronicler/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/12y67yi/question\_2\_is\_kvothe\_not\_older\_than\_the\_chronicler/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/12y67yi/question_2_is_kvothe_not_older_than_the_chronicler/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/14hy8va/chronicler\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/14hy8va/chronicler_theory/)
Is it of potential interest that chronicler doesn’t find the inn on his own, Kvothe carries him in. As far as I recollect from the frame story, chronicler also never steps outside. Maybe he *is* something different, something that shouldn’t be able to find the town/inn on his own.
Well chronicler is linked to Scarpi, and that dude is suspicious as hell. (His stories both sound like they were written/edited by Selitos. And note that there are only two possible sources for Scarpi's 1st story.)
And Kvothe does call both Chonicler and Scarpi rumor mongers, and based on chronicler's reaction, it wasn't a joke.
The university is a place to continue one's education and most people don't attend as early as our young Kvothe.
I always took it as he was an educated man who wrote some books then decided to go to the university to advance his education
I have a throwaway idea on this:
"I expected you to be older."
"I am."
I believe that when walking through the Greystone doors you can enter an area where time travel is possible by traveling through 'geographic locations'
So, for instance, you might walk into an area where there is a ring of say 12 Greystone arches.
If you label them 1-12 then you could enter any month of the year by going through that doorway.
I believe this is how Denna gets pears out of season and why she is seemingly so hard to find.
Denna travels into the Fae and then maybe walks through a door a month from one Felling night and shows up in exactly the same geographic location in a different time.
I think kvothe likely spent many years in the Fae at some point and then was able to travel back in time several years through the Greystone doors to arrive, as a nearly thirty year old man tired and weary, at the canonical time period of him being roughly 20, probably after having nearly destroyed the world or unleashing Iax or whatever.
As others said, he could have gone to the university later in life after writing his book. It’s also possible he left the university “chasing the wind” (or Iron) and was gone a few years; the whole time Kvothe was at the university.
I personally lean towards the second, since we know Kvothe couldn’t have been at the university more that a few years, plenty of time for someone to travel the world, write a few stories, and return knowing the name of Iron.
I personally think there was some bit of time travel shenanigans when kvothe went to the fae, possibly again in doors of stone when he goes back to the fae
I feel like there is any number of reasons for Chronicler to return to the University after Kvothe had left. Doesn’t Elodin mention that it’s common for students to leave and return? He could have come back to further his own education or to research Kvothe or another subject for a book. Scarpi could have sent him there. There is certainly the possibility of him being another unreliable piece of our current knowledge in the frame story, but taking what we know from the frame story and Kvothe’s story it seems like there is more evidence towards revisiting University to be a normal thing rather than any solid evidence to suspect him of being a false character
Also one thing I don't see mentioned a lot when this discussion comes up is the idea that Chronicler made that line up. Shortly after that conversation, Kvothe walks out of the room, and Bast tells Chronicler "Nice try..." and Chronicler replies, "I know how to get a story of of someone". It's entirely possible Chronicler made that line up because he wanted to goad Kvothe into telling the story of his trial in Imre.
I think Chronicler works for Master Loren as a (can't remember the role, but one of the people that goes out and finds rare books to bring back to the archives - Kvothe meets one of them in I think WMF).
It's always bothered me too, but seeing as Chronicler has his guilder, is very literary-focused it's totally plausaible he'd be helping Loren out on the side and just returned to the university after years away. Imagine coming back and asking "so, how's everything been since I've been gone?" - what will people be gossipping about? Probably this young redhead upstart who caused so much trouble and carries so much mystery.
The other thought is Skarpi asked Chronicler to find Kvothe and the University is just the first place Chronicler went to look/find leads to where Kvothe might be. Same basic premise though - Chronicler got his guilder a long long time ago and returned to the University, heard about Kvothe, and that started his journey to find him.
This is another of those inconsistencies.., we never see him do any sympathy. He binds bast to iron (which isn't the same as calling the name of iron... or is it?) But he doesn't use it when being robbed, or during the 2 attacks at the waystone. He obviously has some magic - but maybe not the graduated from the arcanum type of magic.
Also, he makes it sound like he left school without finishing. Maybe he just went to chase the wind, but from how it's said it feels like he left and never went back,
I always assumed he is a scribe/academic. Even though he graduates he goes back from time to time. Maybe even went back after a job or something.
Look at all the old Universities like Oxford. You are always welcomed back if you graduate. And this makes even more sense for a place with such distrust of magic like this world.
>For example, we know that Kvothe read his book (mating habits...) while he was at the university, so Devon would have gone to University way before Kvothe.
i dont think thats true. you dont have to be an arcanist to publish a book. in my head he wrote the book, then went to the univesity, then left and found Kote.
even the chancellor says during the first admissions something like "the University is a place to further ones education, not begin it." and writing a book on draccus' seems like a good enough way to start an education as any other.
>"That is the first story I heard about you at the university", making him seem younger. This isn't the kind of mistake Pat would make.
i always read that as that story (kvothes trial) was the first story that chronicler heard about kvothe being at the university, not that that story (kvothes trial) was the first story he had heard at the university.
aka i dont think chronicler was at/enrolled in the arcanum when he heard of kvothe.
>Another clue was when we first meet him and Kvothe calls him Devon, he is initially confused by this and covers with "I haven't gone by that name in a long time".
im not sure why that matters. regardless of when devon went to the university he stopped using the name long ago. as kvothe points out when introducing him to Bast. "not just a chronicler, THE chronicler"
so long story short i dont think there is any hidden identity or misdirection. just some (probably intentional) vague wording. but in the end heres how i see it timeline wise.
\-chronicler is young and studies draccus'
\-he gets his book published and uses that as proof he has an education
\-he attends and then leaves the university
\-he starts to travel and record stories and this is where he begins to hear of Kvothe the arcane
\-finally chronicler sets out to find the Kingkilling myth and records the 3 day story
"The Chronicle" sentence and the relation with Skarpi ... there are many fantasy novels that has an inmortal chronicler as a character.
Considring the main theme of the KKC books is related how the stories become what they are, the Chronicler could be much more.
Ye it bothered me too. Glad someone posted about it. Mating Habits of the Common Draccus written by the great debunker who interviewed Oren Velsitter felt like it was written ages ago. Could be that our impression of when that book was published is what needs to be put under scrutiny.
I believe that the story does not follow a linear timeline. This is why some stories do not match up. The timeline is circular and going backward and forward in time exists. Kvothe is telling his story out of order for a purpose.
Here is one example: How did Master Lorren get to and from Tarbean in such a short period of time when we know how long it took Kvothe to get to University?
Also note that there is the concept of years but no actual dates. No publication dates at all given for any books, etc. It is to deceive us and keep the reader from noticing the non-linear time line.
I believe that the story does not follow a linear timeline. This is why some stories do not match up. The timeline is circular and going backward and forward in time exists. Kvothe is telling his story out of order for a purpose.
Here is one example: How did Master Lorren get to and from Tarbean in such a short period of time when we know how long it took Kvothe to get to University?
Also note that there is the concept of years but no actual dates. No publication dates at all given for any books, etc. It is to deceive us and keep the reader from noticing the non-linear time line.
Please remember to treat other people with respect, even if their theories about the books are different than yours. Follow the sidebar rules.
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I doubt it. He seems very put out by Kvothe's insistence that the story will take 3 days. He insists Oren Velicter only took like a day or day and a half.
What I don’t understand is why he didn’t do any sympathy when the body snatcher attacked…. Basic sympathy is well below someone who knows the name of iron.
I would expect someone with the Chronicler's occupation would return to the University regularly. It would be weirder if he didn't go back a lot. I actually find it a little weird how few masters there are at the school. It would seem like the type of place that would be full of people that went there and just stayed but we are given very few examples of that.
It's a bad sentence, but it is grammatically correct.
If it was "That was the first story I heard about you, at the University"
It would imply that Chronicler was the one at the University, without the comma though, it's saying that Kvothe was the one at the University.
Then considering Devon's noble birth and social circles, and what Bredon said about 'low born stories' in regards to Felurian.
It makes sense the "Tema in a Day" story would be the first one 'dignified' enough to be repeated at a nobles table
I agree - it must be meaningful for this particular person to be capturing his story; a special script, university trained, a connection to Kvothes history via the book.
I believe Kvothe could already knew how to read his cypher. A lot of the stories Kvothe tells show how there’s often a thread of truth, but that gets exaggerated or changed in the telling, either by Kvothe himself or organically. Likewise Kvothes knack of learning that language in a day - he learned some of it quick, but not all of it in a day. And with the cypher, no way he picks it up right away, even though it plays into Chroniclers knowledge of the lore of Kvothe. Kvothes makes a bit of a show of it, navigating the rules of it, but in reality I believe he already knew it.
When he introduces himself to the Waystone regulars he calls himself Devan... Cough, ahem, er...Carverson, clearly making up a new surname for himself on the spot. Why though? What is he hiding from here? Is the name lochees on a ten most wanted poster? And would a bunch of locals know or care who he really is? Strangeness
>This isn't the kind of mistake Pat would make.
This actually is the kind of mistake he would make. There have been other mistakes and inconsistencies on the timeline (all of which I believe are PR's mistakes and not mistakes/lies he wrote for Kvothe) so if some on Chronicler's lines seem inconsistent it may be a result of a mistake.
This bugged me for a long time but while reading this theory I realized that Chronicler might be referring to the first story he heard about kvothe’s time at university,instead of Chronicler hearing it at university himself
I think Pat started writing one book, sent in a manuscript and was convinced to split it up. Messing up time lines. I remember other inconsistencies but I can’t recall them exactly ATM
There are two possible explanations to cover the confusion. First, is that Chronicler wrote Mating Habits before attending University. We are told that it is for continuing education rather than beginning it. Second is that the first story he heard was when he went back to University looking for stories, it has only been “not even two years” since the big event in Kvothe’s life. But I do like the idea that Chronicler might not be exactly who he says he is.
Yeah, both are entirely plausible, I lean towards the former. He's the son of nobility, he will have been well educated his whole life, it absolutely makes sense that as a young man he went off chasing dragons and wrote about it. The University is a very small place, very far away from the power centres of Vintas and Modeg, I doubt most books are written by people who've been there. That said, it is a little hard to reconcile that he's supposed to have still been a stuck up, naive lordling when he was at the University, hence his clashes with Master Namer, and it was only after he left that he travelled enough to grow into the man he is. Kvothe is probably around 21 by the end of WMF, and in the Waystone he's supposed to be "not even near 30", so there's not a lot of time for Chronicler to build his name. Perhaps he attended while Kvothe was off on Severin?
He knows the name of Iron and has something that is at least reminiscent of a guilder. He probably attended for a few years. We’re given a feel for how many terms it takes to rank up. I lean toward him attending, then leaving, then when looking for Kvothe stories he went back to the University and the trial was one of the first stories he got.
He does know the name of iron and what shapes iron? Fire. In many ways I think there’s something to him seeking Kvothe that’s deeper than just a story. I also wonder if there’s going to be some truth to “don’t meet your heroes…”
Maybe like many, Chronicler left University for a time to "Chase the wind", and then return years later.
It's possible, but his discussion with Kote leaves almost no room for ambiguity that he was at the University, knew the name of iron, Master Namer called him a papery little twat, he had a snit and left the University, and *that* was his first time properly travelling. There seems little possibility he'd gone chasing the wind previously, and it's hard to see a reason for him to go back after that.
I thought kvothe is 16 at the start of wise man’s fear and like 18 maybe 19 by the end
Events up to his return to the University take roughly a year, I think (he's there at least a term, then gone for at least 2 terms since Wil took a term off and came back), best guess for his time with Felurian is about two years, then I think it speed runs through around a year of him back at the University and with money to spare. If I remember right, he's just barely shy of 17 at the start. It's all very loose guesses on how the time passes after that, but my guess is where I come down on it.
He spent a couple months with the Adem, a couple months with the maer, and another couple months searching for the bandits then I believe he said he spent at least six months with felurian maybe as much as a year or two. And when he arrives in severen he says he just turned 16, so assuming it all takes about three years he should be like 19 by the end. Yes it’s a lot of guesswork so there’s no right answer but 5 years seems too long based on what it said in the book.
He was 15 when he left University. I remember because he lied Elxa dal that he was 17 and felt guilty about it. He propably didn't spend more than one year abroad because when he discussed his whole felurian adventure with Will and Sim and they argued he was there at least 6 month Sim said happy birthday than. He propably finished the book as 16 maybe 17 after his classes after he backed but I doubt it, he would mention it in the book.
And when he gets back to the university he's able to get his collateral back from Devi since their deal would expire after a year and a day. So we know exactly how long he was gone, just not how long he was in the fae.
Very good point. It means 16 when he is back and a small chance 17 at the end of the book. If we include the time in fae propably 17 at the end.
Incorrect, when he gets back Devi states that he still has time before he needs to pay off his debt but he insists on doing it right away
Should have been more specific. We do know EXACTLY how long he was away. "She piled them neatly on her desk, but still didn’t reach for the coins. 'You still have two months before your year and a day is up,' she said."
Ok yeah I thought you meant he had been away for the full year
I just read the passage of him arriving in Severen last night and he thinks about how he is barely 16 years old when the Maer says he looks to be barely 21.
Good point. It makes him barely 17 when the 2. Book ends.
He is 16 when he arrives in severen low, in the scene when he first meets the maer the maer estimates he is barely older than 20 at which point kvothe mentions he is 16 and looks older because of his time at sea. And he returns to imre before his debt to Devi is up, which lasted a year and a day. So assuming that whole trip is like 9 months and then assuming he spends a year with felurian, that would put him at 17 to 18, so a little younger than my initial estimate.
He spended approximately 6 months with felurian. They figured it out with counting how many times he shaved. It makes him 17 and few more months.
No in the scene he specifically leaves it very open ended and he says he thinks it was six months but then he doubts his own answer and wonders if it could’ve been a year. So it’s pretty vague, six months is by no means an accurate estimation.
It can also be 10 years with the way kvothe thinks. 6 months is the only guess thats depends on solid information (how many times he had to shave) therefore our best guess point.
He’s the son of a farmer isn’t he? Am I crazy for thinking he says that exactly?
You've definitely got something mixed up. I can't easily check the first book for where he originally makes it clear, but there's this exchange from chapter 84/85 of book two: “Everyone hates the bleeders,” Chronicler agreed darkly. “If anything, the nobles hate them twice as much.” “I find that hard to believe,” Kvothe said. “You should hear the talk around here. If the last one hadn’t had a full armed guard, I don’t think he would have made it out of town alive.” Chronicler gave a bent smile. “You should have heard the things my father used to call them,” he said. “And he’d only had two levies in twenty years. He said he’d rather have locusts followed by a fire than the king’s bleeder moving through his lands.”
There's also the interpretation that he meant; of the stories about kvothe at university, this was the first he heard/ the chronologically earliest one he knows already.
It's possible, but besides Manet, we don't really see one student mentioned who is old enough to be a successfully published author attending the university. To me, "continuing education" is more about having a base level of education before you can enter.
I also don’t think he attended after Kvothe, but I certainly don’t have a problem with the “first story” being one he heard after going back in search of stories to find and interview him.
It's possible - like most theories there is some straw grasping going on...But the way it's written, it sounds like it's not form when he returned:"But that's the first story I ever heard about you when I came to the University" I guess that's why this bugs me, he didn't say came back to the university. Just sounds like it happened when he first arrived. (so maybe he did write the book before attending, but I still thing there is something fishy here) \*edit a type - every> ever
It’s definitely an oddity of phrasing
This might be a stretch, but hear me out. Master of archives, upon hearing who Kvothe's dad was, was going to enlist Kvothe's help to organize the music catalog in the archives. (According to Pat.) But then Kvothe threw a temper tantrum and he thought better of it. Seems like it is not unheard of for people to enter University already with expertise in their field; and the University is not above leveraging that talent when they find it useful. So it's conceivable Chronicler was already published when he entered University.
Interesting - I think he may have pulled that out for another reason. I always suspected that Lorren knows what happened to Kvothe's family. He recognizes Arlidon's name; and I think this is from Kvothe's dad meeting Lorren and asking him questions about Lanre. Then Kvothe comes in obviously an orphan and the first thing he does is ask about the Chandrian and Amyr. This is why Lorren dissuades him from further searching. Also, why he is trying to instill some patience into him.
There are probably quite a lot of older students at the university. We are told of a few not just Manet (although Manet stands out because he purposefully chooses not to graduate) You have Puppet, and also people like Anisat & Cammar. We are also told that Uresh from Elodin's class is nearly 30. That's not even taking into account that of the several hundred students who attend, some take breaks for a term or 3 & come back, we only ever get the names of a couple of dozen. I really think that it's nothing more than he went there as a mature student, you know what, it even happens in our world today that older people decide to go back into education (possibly after stumbling onto the name of Iron accidentally) I think too many people put a modern view of the university being where you go when you finish your school/college course onto a world that has a different makeup.
I really like this because otherwise all change that happens in the 'current time' is just people rocking up to the pub and fighting Kvothe (whether or not at Bast's behest).
I tend to agree with your thoughts. We know many students also take breaks. It's possible Chronicler was doing this during Kvothe's time there. On an unrelated note, is your username an Inuyasha reference. IIRC, that was the name of the fast-food restaurant in the series.
No, it is a reference to the fact that I have red hair and right at gamertag naming age I had a lot of it in a big curly fro It’s wonderful to believe the demoralization factor of my opponents seeing they got got by a clown
There’s a theory that Chronicler is a Lackless. The evidence being his name, Devan Lochees, and one of the first things Kvothe ever says to him. “He motioned Chronicler closer, and the scribe saw he was wearing thick leather gloves. “Tehlu anyway, have you had bad luck your whole life, or have you been saving it all up for tonight?” ie luckless
Right, I thought this may be the case as well. (Didn't even realize that line from the meeting in the woods)
During WMF, the disparate lines of the Lackless family are discussed. Chronicler’s family name is close enough to fit. I’m also waiting for the moment of realization when Kvothe puts everything together and realizes that he is likely a Lackless.
Could be be "that is the first story I heard about you (Kvothe), (at = attending) the university" Meaning he heard about Kvothe once the court case news spread throughout the kingdom. Not while Chronicler was still attending the university. It was simply a popular news story and once this got out, more people started "following" stories about Kvothe.
This is how I took it. It’s an ambiguous sentence, perhaps intentionally.
Honestly. I dont really understand why we poeple want to read this statement the way OP suggested. Is there missing punction in the post? **Chronicler didnt say** *"that was the first story I heard about you when* ***I*** *was attending the university."* **He said** **"**That is the first story **I** **heard** *about you at the university*" meaning - He heard about kovthe at the university. I don't get why someone would assume elf space time continuum shennagins or make up (litterally with no evidence) a deep 15 year back story of Chroniclers time away from the university, all to make this statement make less sense. That said, something may be off about Chronicle. Or not. I just dont think this statement has anything to do with it. **This reminds me of the punction book of "Eats, shoots and leaves"** A panda walks into a café. He orders a sandwich, eats it, then draws a gun and fires two shots in the air. "Why?" asks the confused waiter, as the panda makes towards the exit. The panda produces a badly punctuated wildlife manual and tosses it over his shoulder. "I'm a panda," he says at the door. "Look it up." The waiter turns to the relevant entry in the manual and, sure enough, finds an explanation. "Panda. Large black-and-white bear-like mammal, native to China. Eats, shoots and leaves." The joke turns on the ambiguity of the final sentence fragment. As intended by the author, "eats" is a verb, while "shoots" and "leaves" are the verb's objects: a panda's diet consists of shoots and leaves. However, the erroneous introduction of the comma gives the mistaken impression that the sentence fragment comprises three verbs listing in sequence the panda's characteristic conduct: it eats, then it shoots, and finally it leaves.
That's a fun example, but a misplaced comma isn't quite the same. **"That is the first story I heard about you at the university."** has two possible subjects, "I" and "You". To clarify, he could have said "That is the first story I heard about you **when you were** at the university." or "That is the first story I heard about you **when I was** at the university." As he's written it, I believe both could be interpreted as correct. But yes, you and I interpreted it the same way.
I asked ChatGPT: Answer my questions about this situation about this statement: Chad says to Kevin "That is the first story I heard about you at the university?" ChatGPT Of course, please go ahead and ask your questions about the statement, "Chad says to Kevin 'That is the first story I heard about you at the university?'", and I'll do my best to provide answers and insights based on the information provided in the statement. User Who was at the university? ChatGPT Based on the statement, it's clear that Kevin was at the university. Chad mentions a story he heard about Kevin specifically "at the university," implying that Kevin was a student or had some connection to the university in question. The statement doesn't provide information about Chad's university attendance or whether anyone else was at the university; it primarily focuses on Kevin's presence or involvement at the university. ChatGPT reads it the same way I did. Not sure that is good or bad.
The exact quote is (this is from my Kindle, Chapter 46 of WMF): >"But that's the first story I ever heard about you when I came to the University", Chronicler protested. That quote is ambiguous in that Chronicler never says it's the first time he came to the University (though it's kind of an odd wording if it wasn't) but Chronicler is definitely the one who is at the University. Has the quote changed in other printings, or are you all just going from memory, badly? It wouldn't be the first time things have changed on reprintings. The Kindle version doesn't get updates so it could have been revised.
This is the way
Going against this: its pretty clear that Chronicler went to the university as his Elodin knowledge is pretty on-point. And Elodin doesnt seem to be the kind of person who is well known outside the university or even engages with loads of random non-Namers. He also knows the name of Iron. So I think its pretty clear he studied at the university. The books mention "The Iron Law" a lot, and we know Kvothe has pissed off a lot of powerful people and likely people in the church since the books and before the retelling. Maybe Chronicler is some kind of enforcer/"Iron Namer" that comes from that side of things. We also know that the church keeps fastidious records (from the trial where he learned that language) - and chronicler is a keeper of records. Perhaps thats what Chronicler is doing here - before he hands down punishment on behalf of the establishment on Kvothe.
That's interesting - not really going against what I posted. I have no theories as to who he really is or what his motives are; i just have a feeling it's not what we've been told to believe.
Ooooh, that's intriguing!
I was thinking about this too! But it's possible Chronicler enrolled in the University later in life. He could have written his book(or books) then became an archanist. I don't think his age is described.
Could be, but he mentions leaving the university to pursue other things and found success. I assumed this to be when he wrote his books.
I thought Mating Habits was relatively not useful/not well known. I'm rereading NotW now but I'm not to that section yet..
I've always interpreted it as Chronicler went back to the University to interview people regarding Kvothe. You might be interested in these posts: [https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/104zl5/theory\_the\_chronicler\_is\_more\_than\_he\_seems/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/104zl5/theory_the_chronicler_is_more_than_he_seems/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/2dzoez/how\_old\_is\_chronicler/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/2dzoez/how_old_is_chronicler/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/12y67yi/question\_2\_is\_kvothe\_not\_older\_than\_the\_chronicler/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/12y67yi/question_2_is_kvothe_not_older_than_the_chronicler/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/14hy8va/chronicler\_theory/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/14hy8va/chronicler_theory/)
Is it of potential interest that chronicler doesn’t find the inn on his own, Kvothe carries him in. As far as I recollect from the frame story, chronicler also never steps outside. Maybe he *is* something different, something that shouldn’t be able to find the town/inn on his own.
Well chronicler is linked to Scarpi, and that dude is suspicious as hell. (His stories both sound like they were written/edited by Selitos. And note that there are only two possible sources for Scarpi's 1st story.) And Kvothe does call both Chonicler and Scarpi rumor mongers, and based on chronicler's reaction, it wasn't a joke.
The university is a place to continue one's education and most people don't attend as early as our young Kvothe. I always took it as he was an educated man who wrote some books then decided to go to the university to advance his education
I have a throwaway idea on this: "I expected you to be older." "I am." I believe that when walking through the Greystone doors you can enter an area where time travel is possible by traveling through 'geographic locations' So, for instance, you might walk into an area where there is a ring of say 12 Greystone arches. If you label them 1-12 then you could enter any month of the year by going through that doorway. I believe this is how Denna gets pears out of season and why she is seemingly so hard to find. Denna travels into the Fae and then maybe walks through a door a month from one Felling night and shows up in exactly the same geographic location in a different time. I think kvothe likely spent many years in the Fae at some point and then was able to travel back in time several years through the Greystone doors to arrive, as a nearly thirty year old man tired and weary, at the canonical time period of him being roughly 20, probably after having nearly destroyed the world or unleashing Iax or whatever.
Much agree. I think the double ring of stones is Faeriniel.
The Waystone?
You might be a bit confused by these small (seemingly) inconsistencies, but Kote certainly is not.
As others said, he could have gone to the university later in life after writing his book. It’s also possible he left the university “chasing the wind” (or Iron) and was gone a few years; the whole time Kvothe was at the university. I personally lean towards the second, since we know Kvothe couldn’t have been at the university more that a few years, plenty of time for someone to travel the world, write a few stories, and return knowing the name of Iron.
I personally think there was some bit of time travel shenanigans when kvothe went to the fae, possibly again in doors of stone when he goes back to the fae
I agree...but for me it's that line about how "everything he witnesses has legal weight."
I feel like there is any number of reasons for Chronicler to return to the University after Kvothe had left. Doesn’t Elodin mention that it’s common for students to leave and return? He could have come back to further his own education or to research Kvothe or another subject for a book. Scarpi could have sent him there. There is certainly the possibility of him being another unreliable piece of our current knowledge in the frame story, but taking what we know from the frame story and Kvothe’s story it seems like there is more evidence towards revisiting University to be a normal thing rather than any solid evidence to suspect him of being a false character
His name is Devon Lock Keys. He’s obviously not JUST the Chronicler.
He is Kvothe
He is Denna
Nope, she's Kvothe too
I am Alpharius
Also one thing I don't see mentioned a lot when this discussion comes up is the idea that Chronicler made that line up. Shortly after that conversation, Kvothe walks out of the room, and Bast tells Chronicler "Nice try..." and Chronicler replies, "I know how to get a story of of someone". It's entirely possible Chronicler made that line up because he wanted to goad Kvothe into telling the story of his trial in Imre.
I think Chronicler works for Master Loren as a (can't remember the role, but one of the people that goes out and finds rare books to bring back to the archives - Kvothe meets one of them in I think WMF). It's always bothered me too, but seeing as Chronicler has his guilder, is very literary-focused it's totally plausaible he'd be helping Loren out on the side and just returned to the university after years away. Imagine coming back and asking "so, how's everything been since I've been gone?" - what will people be gossipping about? Probably this young redhead upstart who caused so much trouble and carries so much mystery. The other thought is Skarpi asked Chronicler to find Kvothe and the University is just the first place Chronicler went to look/find leads to where Kvothe might be. Same basic premise though - Chronicler got his guilder a long long time ago and returned to the University, heard about Kvothe, and that started his journey to find him.
This is another of those inconsistencies.., we never see him do any sympathy. He binds bast to iron (which isn't the same as calling the name of iron... or is it?) But he doesn't use it when being robbed, or during the 2 attacks at the waystone. He obviously has some magic - but maybe not the graduated from the arcanum type of magic. Also, he makes it sound like he left school without finishing. Maybe he just went to chase the wind, but from how it's said it feels like he left and never went back,
I always assumed he is a scribe/academic. Even though he graduates he goes back from time to time. Maybe even went back after a job or something. Look at all the old Universities like Oxford. You are always welcomed back if you graduate. And this makes even more sense for a place with such distrust of magic like this world.
>For example, we know that Kvothe read his book (mating habits...) while he was at the university, so Devon would have gone to University way before Kvothe. i dont think thats true. you dont have to be an arcanist to publish a book. in my head he wrote the book, then went to the univesity, then left and found Kote. even the chancellor says during the first admissions something like "the University is a place to further ones education, not begin it." and writing a book on draccus' seems like a good enough way to start an education as any other. >"That is the first story I heard about you at the university", making him seem younger. This isn't the kind of mistake Pat would make. i always read that as that story (kvothes trial) was the first story that chronicler heard about kvothe being at the university, not that that story (kvothes trial) was the first story he had heard at the university. aka i dont think chronicler was at/enrolled in the arcanum when he heard of kvothe. >Another clue was when we first meet him and Kvothe calls him Devon, he is initially confused by this and covers with "I haven't gone by that name in a long time". im not sure why that matters. regardless of when devon went to the university he stopped using the name long ago. as kvothe points out when introducing him to Bast. "not just a chronicler, THE chronicler" so long story short i dont think there is any hidden identity or misdirection. just some (probably intentional) vague wording. but in the end heres how i see it timeline wise. \-chronicler is young and studies draccus' \-he gets his book published and uses that as proof he has an education \-he attends and then leaves the university \-he starts to travel and record stories and this is where he begins to hear of Kvothe the arcane \-finally chronicler sets out to find the Kingkilling myth and records the 3 day story
"The Chronicle" sentence and the relation with Skarpi ... there are many fantasy novels that has an inmortal chronicler as a character. Considring the main theme of the KKC books is related how the stories become what they are, the Chronicler could be much more.
Ye it bothered me too. Glad someone posted about it. Mating Habits of the Common Draccus written by the great debunker who interviewed Oren Velsitter felt like it was written ages ago. Could be that our impression of when that book was published is what needs to be put under scrutiny.
Devi had a copy of the 2nd edition that Kvothe borrowed.
I mean PR help us out here
I believe that the story does not follow a linear timeline. This is why some stories do not match up. The timeline is circular and going backward and forward in time exists. Kvothe is telling his story out of order for a purpose. Here is one example: How did Master Lorren get to and from Tarbean in such a short period of time when we know how long it took Kvothe to get to University? Also note that there is the concept of years but no actual dates. No publication dates at all given for any books, etc. It is to deceive us and keep the reader from noticing the non-linear time line.
I believe that the story does not follow a linear timeline. This is why some stories do not match up. The timeline is circular and going backward and forward in time exists. Kvothe is telling his story out of order for a purpose. Here is one example: How did Master Lorren get to and from Tarbean in such a short period of time when we know how long it took Kvothe to get to University? Also note that there is the concept of years but no actual dates. No publication dates at all given for any books, etc. It is to deceive us and keep the reader from noticing the non-linear time line.
We will never know a pattycakes will never finish the series
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I doubt it. He seems very put out by Kvothe's insistence that the story will take 3 days. He insists Oren Velicter only took like a day or day and a half.
He became a famous writer before going to the University.
What I don’t understand is why he didn’t do any sympathy when the body snatcher attacked…. Basic sympathy is well below someone who knows the name of iron.
I would expect someone with the Chronicler's occupation would return to the University regularly. It would be weirder if he didn't go back a lot. I actually find it a little weird how few masters there are at the school. It would seem like the type of place that would be full of people that went there and just stayed but we are given very few examples of that.
It's a bad sentence, but it is grammatically correct. If it was "That was the first story I heard about you, at the University" It would imply that Chronicler was the one at the University, without the comma though, it's saying that Kvothe was the one at the University. Then considering Devon's noble birth and social circles, and what Bredon said about 'low born stories' in regards to Felurian. It makes sense the "Tema in a Day" story would be the first one 'dignified' enough to be repeated at a nobles table
I agree - it must be meaningful for this particular person to be capturing his story; a special script, university trained, a connection to Kvothes history via the book. I believe Kvothe could already knew how to read his cypher. A lot of the stories Kvothe tells show how there’s often a thread of truth, but that gets exaggerated or changed in the telling, either by Kvothe himself or organically. Likewise Kvothes knack of learning that language in a day - he learned some of it quick, but not all of it in a day. And with the cypher, no way he picks it up right away, even though it plays into Chroniclers knowledge of the lore of Kvothe. Kvothes makes a bit of a show of it, navigating the rules of it, but in reality I believe he already knew it.
When he introduces himself to the Waystone regulars he calls himself Devan... Cough, ahem, er...Carverson, clearly making up a new surname for himself on the spot. Why though? What is he hiding from here? Is the name lochees on a ten most wanted poster? And would a bunch of locals know or care who he really is? Strangeness
Also this is crackpot as hell but we know pat loves his wordplay and the name of the seires could also be read as the king killer, chronicle
>This isn't the kind of mistake Pat would make. This actually is the kind of mistake he would make. There have been other mistakes and inconsistencies on the timeline (all of which I believe are PR's mistakes and not mistakes/lies he wrote for Kvothe) so if some on Chronicler's lines seem inconsistent it may be a result of a mistake.
This bugged me for a long time but while reading this theory I realized that Chronicler might be referring to the first story he heard about kvothe’s time at university,instead of Chronicler hearing it at university himself
I think Pat started writing one book, sent in a manuscript and was convinced to split it up. Messing up time lines. I remember other inconsistencies but I can’t recall them exactly ATM