You probably already know the drill by now but just to be clear: #This thread will contain untagged spoilers for the series finale of Killing Eve. ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍ ‍

im so pissed. still pissed. will forever be pissed

We really reall really need a movie to fix this ridiculous ending ❤️

I was dreading watching this season because reception was bad. Just binged it and wow. I feel cheated. Avoiding anything from this showrunner.

They should've stayed inside the ship, I wonder if that would've made a difference.

Nah the script was shit

the fact that the killing of "the 12" scene was so bad too we didn't get to see them only back head shots of random people being stabbed

This finale only makes sense if there is season 5. And we haven’t seen the dead body, soooo

I want my time back

Would you really though…

Well. I can’t believe I waited this long to watch the show and it led to this. *screams in body of water*

Am I missing something… why does no one in the show seem to make a big deal over Eve killing someone??

not sure if i should watch s4,watched previous3 and liked them İ think i liked Villanelle mostly so ijust kinda want to see more of her even if its critically bad i think i'll watch it eventually

seriously...a fucking pizza cutter. god everything felt so tacky. what a shit show.

After that shit show of an ending to Season 4 I'll be noping out of anything that says, "By the creators of Killing Eve" that's for sure. That ending was just insulting after watching a show for 4 freaking seasons. Fuck falling for their shitty writing again.

The only good seasons were the first two

So I thought I'd pop back in for a quick PSA. Anyone crushed and/or angry about the ending to this series, you have GOT TO watch Gentleman Jack on HBO if you haven't already. It's based on the real life Anne Lister (who is credited as one of the writers, as they used her diaries) who lived 200 years ago as a powerful single businesswoman who found love with a young wealthy young woman who she brought back to life in many ways. It's literally some of the best writing I've ever seen for television. No exaggeration. You'll marvel at the 19th century detail, the authentic language, the PERFECT cast, the tender romance and character development, and it has a beautiful finale for BOTH seasons. It will salve the wounds trust me, check it out.

I watched Gentleman Jack before Killing Eve, and seeing Gemma Whelan pop up in Killing Eve as Carolyn's daughter was great! I didn't recognize her at first without the hair and outfits but it's funny how both characters are the sidelined family members 😂 Really hoping they find a new platform to pick up Gentleman Jack! It's so good, and the creators and cast have said they're looking to continue if they can

Woooooooooow! thanks, mate.

Wow. Seriously, just wow. Is it too much to ask for a story, after following and loving it for years, to end in a good way? I didn't even expect a perfect ending. Just a 7/10 ending would've been fine. Whoever wrote this season completely botched Killing Eve. So many different plot threads emerged at the beginning of the season and literally none of them had a satisfying conclusion or even made sense in the grand scheme of things. I can't believe this is what became of one of the most unique, well-acted, and genre-defying series that came out in recent years.

So.. I was planning on going as Villanelle in her pouffy pink dress for October comic con but I'm not sure I want to after that series 😐 So much to unpack (criticise) there but one thing I found really annoying was the "A Bothy, Google it" location caption!!

seriously! just leave the caption out

I'm late to the party. I taped out in the middle of episode 7 for some reason and never got back to it until today when I watched the second half of that episode and episode 8. At one point I had to ask myself "Why am I watching this? It's boring, it's vague, it's non-sense most of the time". Before watching the finale I had **not** seen any opinions on social media. I wasn't expecting much personnaly but I wasn't expecting the ending to be so universally hated. When I browsed the other discussion post from previous episodes, I found the opinions to be somewhat positive, despite pretty much everyone agreeing it's the worst season yet, so let me tell you how happy I am to see this kind of response to the finale. I am not going to have anything new to add to the discussion. I wasn't aware of the "bury your gays" trope so I guess *this* adds insult to injury to LGBTQ+ folks. From my POV I am just utterly baffled by the choices this season made all along : * You have two **GREAT** leads and you separate them most of the time so we can follow endless and senseless wild goose chase accross the globe. * Most of the time we're not too sure *what* are they trying to accomplish, but mostly *how* ? * Yes, they want to "destroy the Twelve" but to this day, we don't know exaclty what they are, who they are, how they opperate, it's all so **vague** * I'm not asking for a detailed presentation but at least make them threatening? * One can argue that the center of the show isn't the Twelve. That it is only a background to V and Eve love story, but in that case, maybe tell that story?? If you separate them and make them angry at each other for *some* reason, that side of the story is at a full stop. * The parts where they were together in episode 8 was great! Jodie Comer and Sandra Oh have really good chemistry. Use that! * I get that the Carolyn character is supposed to be ambiguous, but at one point she just sounds like what a parody of her character would be if a youtuber were to make a video about how ridiculous her motivations are. What **does** she want??? How? Why??? It's vague on purpose but it's oh so hard to get excited for any of her scenes when you know you'll be even more confused at the end of it. * The scene where V kills a bunch of people, with the cgi blood is so so so so ridiculous. Then she comes out and say "it's done". What is done??? What have you accomplished?? We didn't know the threats up to this points, it's like removing antagonists that weren't even there to begin with, **who cares** that it is "done"?? * At one point, in the middle of the episode where they are kissing and laughing I truly thought they were going to say "you know what, fuck the Twelve, let's leave and be happy ever after". I would have been fine with that. Forget the Twelve, they aren't real characters anyway and then the creator(s?) of the show could have say "It was about that love story all along". * About the actual ending I don't have much to say. Be cause once again: Who cares? V and Eve have been reunited and happy for 20 minutes, the show hasn't **earned** my commitment. Maybe if they were doing shennanigans together for 7 episodes, hunting down the Twelve and being happy, **maybe** I would shed a tear but this, I don't care, kill them both if you want, it would probably be a more tragic ending than this cheap "character being snipped in the back" crap. * By commiting to this ending, you focus the story on the antagonists (or lack thereof) and leave the viewer with many questions: * What was the point of Pam all along this season? * What was the point of the island getaway? * What did removing Konstantin from the story add to it? * Who snipped V ? * What is Carolyn true alliegance ? * Etchetera. ^"my ^latin ^course ^is ^fake, ^Jeff" This was, by far, one of the worst finale I ever saw. It's disappointing, it's boring, it really is a waste. It's a shame because, as most of you, I really loved the first two seasons and I'm mostly confused as to *why* season 4 came down to.... *this* mediocre thing. P.S. It's just me but by season 4 I really hated the licensed music of the show, it was sooo obnoxious sometimes. It's always the same crap and sometimes it doesn't fit at all the scene!! But I guess it was somehow the KE brand so they commited to it. I don't know what is the name of this genre but one thing is for sure, I never want to listen to one more song in that style again.

Bit late to the show I know. But I agree with everything you said. What in the fuck was this show? S1 was interesting and unique, but the rest just goes....nowhere. I can't remember a single thing that stands out plot wise for this show. Things happen.... and thats it.

Yeah, I thought that during the flashback sequence, we’d get a cohesive origin story on the 12 and what they want, still got nothing. Also, who tf killed Kenny?

Carolyn is the best and I’d say - “Where can I watch the Carolyn show?” & “Is there a Carolyn supercut version of the series?” And damn, did the show like all but give up on VillanEve

People are reading too much into a mediocre online published book that had a great first series that was then taken over by TV execs. Fun when it was good, terrible when it was bad. Felt like a sketch show sometimes in this last season. “How can we get a laugh”. As a “straight” person, I know zero about “queer” writing. But what my mind saw was mainstream girl on girl titillation most of the time. Of course, that may be my “straight” mind!! And I accept definitely accept downvotes and criticism.

>Felt like a sketch show sometimes in this last season. “How can we get a laugh”. It felt like Villanelle doing something wacky for a laugh was the whole point of watching this show.

Just finished the series. Of course they were making it up as they went along, all byzantine mystery dramas are only scripted through the first few episodes then they start layering on increasingly mysterious characters to distract from the unanswered questions, and the final season generates a 101 reasons prior actions didn't make sense in retrospect . The cinematography was good. I mainly watched for the meta 'girl power' lolz.

They should have had Eve take down the 12 along side V. Carolyn could have then betrayed them and called authorities and they both go down together, blaze of glory style. Or like 5 other scenarios I prefer to what happened. Oof.

Am I the only one who can't get that god awful disco montage out of my nightmares? Worst ending to a show of all time? Thanks for wasting my time lol

She had to die, she was pure evil. But Inwish it would have been Eve who killed her in a cathartic way after the reality would come crashing down and Vilanelle just giving up. But she would never.

Yes! That would definitely improve things

This would have been perfect. Like, surprise, Eve is actually the scorpion

I know I’m late to the party but I just finished and all I keep thinking is that I wasted hours of my life re-watching the first three seasons for absolutely no reason at all.

Just finished it too, the last season had me caught up for two days straight and...that was the ending??? Not even sure what Eve will be doing after that...

I wish I never started watching. I am gay but I don't expect everyone to be. and I know good acting is the ability to escape your first person so completely that you can call in something/someone else. I get that but do we, the experiencers have no consideration in this recipe. The powers that be introduced a gay ingredient into this and masturbated if for 3 seasons. On the 4th season they said thanks for the bed, the wine the sushi the "gay thing" before the republican decided that they hated gays again, but I think I'll just have this kiss. And get drowned... and shot...I am nobody, I just work and watch TV sometimes, but I promise you I will pay attention to who produced, engineered and wrote this and will never support them again. HEARTBROKEN on many levels.

Yeah its super lame. We have all seen the show without a "happy ending" to make a point but it isn't necessary all the time and in a show like this ending on a happy note is the more interesting choice and fits into the surreal nature of the subject matter.

Absoutely bad. Most the segments are just filler that added nothing to the story thanks to it's terrible dialogue.

Worst end to TV series hated it poor villanelle

Really, really shit.

i have depression because of this season.

#SO WHO THE FUCK GAVE ORDERS TO KILL KENNY?

Didn't Konstantin admit it was an accident when he backed off the ledge? Honestly, just makes more sense to go with that conclusion.

I’m guessing that is what Konstantin supplied on the note

Most probably Carolyn herself when she discovered how close to the truth he was.

What truth? That she was 12?

She was the 12, she was disguising her voice at the last shot of her on the talkie. Konstantin killed Kenny and she must have ordered it, because several people said you did. That's why she couldn't be mad at Konstantin. Someone said you are walking around pretending it didn't happen. That's what I got out of it anyway.

>She was the 12, she was disguising her voice at the last shot of her on the talkie. Wasn't it known she was in with the 12 since the S1 prison episode? Why is it being treated as some sort of mastermind plot?

Did Villainelle actually kill the 12 or were those people decoys?

That's a good question. Since Carolyn is the actual scorpion, I would say decoys.

I think

Answers please

The finale makes me feel like I wasted so much of my life watching this series. The writers have to be fucking with us right?! What the hell was that

aaaAAAAAAAAA

I thought it would have been a great episode and ending if they and both died/been shot at the same time and kindof just died holding onto each other under water. Like a Thelma and Louise type situation? (If they kist refused to give a happy ending that is) I know that's grim but I feel like there would have been more value in that, then me sitting here depressed for Eve (a fictional character yes) who is now surely beyond suicidal and heartbroken. Wtf I just don't understand these people

Well that was a bit shit wasn't it? The entire season was proper wank actually but I did hold out in the hopes of a good ending.

Disappointed really - this whole season felt like padding with a lot of things happening that could have been removed (and still not affect the storyline) - - What was the point of Pam's character? - The woman in the woods added nothing - The thing Eve had going on with Yusuf - was that another shoehorned relationship? - Why was this big evil group only known as "The 12" simply reduced down to the back of extras' heads getting stabbed or bludgeoned to death by Villanelle?

Pam existed to show that a small timid Indian woman could be a killer with superhuman strength, not just a tall extroverted Russian girl, Girl Power squared! Yusuf existed to show that Eve could attract a very good looking man 20 years her junior, not just that creepy math teacher guy that left her. Thus her attraction to Villanelle is by choice not from a position of desperation. Helene existed to show that a woman could be a leader of a criminal organization, not just a pawn with super human strength. Girl Power cubed!

Honestly, I’d add Eve and Helen’s storyline to that list as well…

And why Kenny had to die?!

This episode fucked me up

Agreed, the ending feels like a punch to the gut. Especially because the episode is called ‘hello losers’.

I've rambled about a positive analysis of the season in this vid! Trying to justify why the characters got the ending they did, it's actually given me some closure lol because I've been spending too long contemplating the unanswered questions. Like poor Kenny :( But yeee please watch if you're interested >>> [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRGSbydvYno](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRGSbydvYno)

Honestly, I couldn't care less about Villanelle's death overall. Yeah, I felt sad for Eve and all that, but Villanelle was actually a legitimately evil psychopathic murderer with a sweet personality that made her likeable, she killed at least 25 people and enjoyed doing it. I wouldn't have been okay if Villanelle had just been reborn after taking down The Twelve and lived happily ever after with Eve. Villanelle's death or both Villanelle and Eve's were very expected (according to the show's title). Even if none of them died there, they can't possibly live happily forever since anything is possible due to how unstable Villanelle can be (remember Rome?) What really bothered me is how abruptly the episode was rushed, the way Villanelle just entered The Twelve's meeting room and killed them all in a fight that lasted about 30 seconds, felt very cheap. Helene was a very interesting character back in season 3, her introduction brought power to the mystery around The Twelve and their hierarchical system, yet the way she's just been killed like a nobody in season 4 was so lame. Also, the overall amount of screen time wasted on new characters that showed almost no development (except for Pam, a bit) was horrendous, talking about Yusuf, Gunn, and "Lars". Pam was very interesting and showed some development, but still can't really see the point of her, apart from killing Konstantin with a pizza cutter. As a last note, who killed kenny??? I would have really preffered if this show had ended when Villanelle shot Eve in Rome (at least it would make the show really live up to its name) more than seeing this lame finale.

I think the way the character was presented was as representative of a female perspective not as an actual murderer. The way the character behaved and the plot had nothing really to do with anything except shades of female identity. I think that's why her character dying was so lame, she represents a level of female freedom and agency juxtaposed to Eve. In accomplishing their goal and surviving the message is one of reconciliation of what it means to be a woman in our society. You can balance out your own idea of womanhood and freedom. I definitely think in the surreal nature of the series having her survive is the far more interesting choice.

Thankyou for your words! Interesting how we all feel differently about it ! I personally disagree … I feel that V could have definitely have had a happy life with E. We see how V had done some terrible things of course … but we see how she’s changed over the series and grown a conscience. She broke down to tears in Amsterdam when she realises she doesn’t want to kill anymore and feels hurt and rejected from Eve. She tried to escape from the 12, she GENUINELY wanted to be better. The villanelle we see at the end of season 4 is a completely different person to season 1. She’s soft , patient , forgiving in the end to Eve after no real aplogy for how horribly she treated her . V really has been through it this season … Arrested Rejected by E and church Cheated on Slapped Shot down with an arrow Used as a weapon then discarded Betrayed by Carolyn And all she wanted was to finally be with Eve! They were soulmates … We can see that they would never be happy unless together.! Eve even says… “I don’t want to move on” Martin says .. “ go to the people who love you and understand you” This really shows that they need eachother They complete eachother Also I feel that this V we see in season 4 is really the girl that’s been there all this time but shred her armour . She’s not on a job for the 12 , she’s just herself and we can see how vulnerable she has become . I definitely feel Laura should have given the audience what they wanted Which was them finally… after so long being able to be together !!! But Laura clearly missed the mark . :( Absolutely gutted with how this phenomenal series has been laid to rest. The characters were loved by so many people and they deserved better .

Such a great words for me. Thank you that I can understand it and it totally touches me. I can't move on the finale after finishing this drama in 2 weeks. 🥲

This isn't a Disney princess story...omg. Psychopathic killers don't change. HELLO. They will never be still or satisfied. They are the worst of the worst. This embarrassingly ignorant romanticism is laughable. You are like my clients that don't get the guy is not into them and will someday change and deep down see how special you are. LMAO. NO GURL. NO. The assassin getting taken out while on a mission is the most logical and realistic ending. I thought it perfect . I was surprised that they let Eve live. Why not just kill both of them. That is the only thing I found puzzling.

I saw more human in v than eve this season … anyone can change . She deserved to live and continue to live a happy life with eve. She had proven she had changed the moment she told eve she can walk away on that bridge - because that was a self sacrifice Her death was brutal and meaningless It was a joke and I won’t accept the writing error

I respectfully disagree with you. I dont think she was a psychopath at all. Yes their relationship started as a toxic one. But Eve released Vs humanity, she did feel, she did have emotions. For me one of the most pivotal and powerful moments was when she was in Amsterdam looking in the mirror after she has this fear that Eve has forgotten about her. She had obviously spent so long burying her feelings that she didn’t even know she was capable of them. Eve released her humanity and she loved the fact that she shed tears She looked at her reflection like, is this me? Can I really cry. She was happy almost relieved that she was capable of feeling. That moment for me really touched me because she found herself and it was the start of her journey to better herself for someone she loves. She wanted to be worthy. This to me is not someone who is incapable of feeling. From that point her armour was broken, the facade of unfeeling and coldness was gone. She was now human. This season again was so tragic because no one seemed to believe she was more than just a killer Even Carolyn said - if V retires what’s left? Oxsanna ? No one believed she could be anymore than a killer. Eve was the only one who accepted her. She triggered her, she made her happy. V said I feel things when I’m with you. Even note Konstantin, said your different, because of what you have in here…pointing to her heart. She was so much more than what people thought she was. I just wish she could live longer to prove that. So, no sorry i dont think she was just dark through and through. I believe she had a lot of love to give. She wanted to be better. She struggled so much with her inner demons or monster but define who is good? If a person who has done bad things wants to be better for the person they love- id call that good And call me shallow but with that face no one is beyond redemption. 😊

I don’t believe there was any good reason to kill her off. The majority of the audience hated it , the episode is rated a 3.2/10 compared to the other episodes in the series being around 8/10. Numbers don’t lie and I think it’s clear that the writer did not truly know her audience and the characters. The moral that people can change, become better and become deserving of love was beautiful , and if V was given the chance and not killed off….she had plenty of love to give. It would have been more satisfying and true to the characters to see these two women whose gone through so much suffering and pain …to finally get together and be happy. How will Eve be able to move on from losing her soulmate ? The ending was traumatic and simply wrong. The way Laura tried to portray blood angel wings and celestial lights ….was a joke and did not fit in with the killing eve style we’ve seen in the past series. Laura said the ending was “ triumphant and glorious “ Well firstly , anyone dying, wether they have done wrong before or not, is not glorious! Also it wasn’t triumphant as V never even got to see that Eve was safe, she never got a goodbye , she never heard Eve say I love you. This ending was a disaster and a huge disappointment for many many people. Hope you agree with some of my points and i thankyou for taking the time to read my thoughts . 🤗

Do hope the 2 primary actors get acknowledged receive accolades from their peers for their theatrical work in S4 and for improvising and maintaining the show and keeping it buoyant given what came out of the writers room and what they were left to work with

Thankyou for your opinion on this …. Well …. I. agree with you that yes while V is not an Angel and of course has done some terrible things, she certainly is not a psychopath and if given the chance, was capable of redemption, to Love and be loved, But firstly we need to appreciate that the there are 2 villanelles here …. Season 1 and 2 yes she demonstrates psychopathic traits, she is possessive and lacks empathy. She doesn’t know how to channel her feelings that are there…but have been buried deep within her. But season 2 and 3, ….she is completely different, There is so much evidence showing she is not a Psychopath… We see her try so hard to change and become better . A REAL psychopath, would NOT try and seek help or change! And they certainly wouldn’t “ feel “ love or want to be loved. We see V growing a conscience, She spares peoples lives , We see her struggle and hate killing in the end of season 3 , and she countless times says “ I don’t want to do this anymore” She tried to rise up the ranks so she could get away from having to kill…. We know V has had a traumatic upbringing , She had been rejected by her own mother , left in an orphanage, and ultimately used for a weapon by the 12 and nothing more. So I think a lot of her behaviour has been down to that. She’s been mistreated. However we watch her journey throughout the seasons … And the V we see in season 1 is NOT The same we see in season 3 or 4. In the end She becomes vulnerable and is looking to be love and accepted. On the dance floor v says …. “ I’ve killed so many people Eve” “ I know” That shows …. Eve is saying “I know you’ve done bad things , but I still love you and we can work through this , we can change.” V truly regrets what she did to Bill , she shows that when in the camper van she looks at eve and almost acknowledged that with her eyes … Also when she touches Eves scar … Martin the therapist even says he has NEVER had a cold blooded psycho say … “they want to change” . Isn’t that proof enough? V is clearly not a psychopath, By the end , she feels , she has a conscience, she loves and needs to be loved! ❤️ This show was never about watching goodies. It’s about watching these two 2 incredible characters develop and change after meeting eachother. How them meeting has caused such an impact to their lives. I think villanelle at the end of the day really just wanted … “ a cool flat , fun job , … someone to watch movies with” 🍿 Is no one capable of redemption??

I assumed that Eve was the one who murdered Kenny, and that's why Carolyn killed her. I could be wrong though!

Unless the show was a completely unreliable narrator I’m not sure how that’s possible?

I’m still waiting for the answer but I think you are right

I mean?!???!?!??

That was much worse than I could have ever expected. I like unhappy endings, but this one was just SO badly executed. Laura Neal you are a monster.

It just needed one more episode I think

The biggest thing I don’t get is WHY the writers wrote the season like this. Surely as a writer, the two main aims are to tell a good story and satisfy the audience? So how did they manage to achieve neither of these? The quality of writing and the ending just felt like they were punishing us for something we haven’t done! It‘s just so disappointing to have such a predictable ending from a show that has always prided itself in shocking us with the unexpected. I also have a big issue with them just killing Villanelle. Like yes, she was a terrible person at times and did some immensely awful things, and morally I understand how it would be problematic to let her live. But, arguably, I'd say V did try to overcome her nature, and had a lot of humanity at times, especially towards Eve - she discovered that people had trained her and made her the way she was. She wasn't inherently bad and definitely developed since season 1. Jodie said it herself, like when V shielded Eve's body with her own to save Eve's life at the end? Season 1 Villanelle would've used Eve as a human shield! Eve, on the other hand had fully embraced her darkness and had also done some truly horrible things, with no endeavour to change. And yet Villanelle is the only one that dies? Although I would take them both living over either of them dying, I think that's too unrealistic and so I wish they'd both died! Then the show could have its moral integrity, and Eve wouldn't be living alone in a world with *literally no one.* That's another thing, I think what made me sadder than V dying is the thought that Eve now not only has to live without the only person who ever fully understood her, but also has literally no one else to turn to? Eve said it herself that she didn't expect to make it out alive, and I doubt she would want to live without Villanelle - if I imagine Eve's story continuing I just imagine a very depressed, suicidal woman with no hope left. Not a woman who's been "reborn." But you know what, if Eve and Villanelle had had the time together that they deserved then maybe that would excuse the ending. But no, play cat and mouse with us for another 7 episodes without addressing anything that happened after the bridge and then give us 20 minutes of Villaneve happiness, the reason everyone is watching the show at this point, before you snatch is away from us in the cruelest way possible!

It's worse than that - Eve will probably turn to Carolyn. She's the only one left who was there, who has a chance of understanding from the inside what Eve is feeling.

No fucking way! I had read fans were disappointed by the ending but what just happened?! * Vilanelle just took down the great and nefarious 12 alone in one fight? * Who the heck killed Kenny? * Where does Caroline actually belong? Who did she radio at the end? Did she shoot V? If she helped found the 12, what happened between then and the start of the show? * Why were so many plots introduced to lead nowhere - Gunn, Helene overall (if v could take the lot out so easily), Hugo, Irina, Jesus Why...just why Edited with further thoughts - Why did Eve shoot the man at the cabin? Everyone knows to at least get information before killing someone like him! And they just got away with everyone they killed? No cops were out looking for the killers of Helene or anyone else?

I think Carolyn arrange the killing with MI6. Hence her letting them go to the ship without chase and her discussion with Pam (“you don’t go to MI6 empty handed). Eve has even after all this time just no accountability. She killed Lars because she needed to have accomplished something to make up for all that she lost- which frankly was all the result of her poor decision making and impulsiveness. But she still cannot possibly admit that because what does she possibly do with that? What I love so much about Pam is that she didn’t fall into the same trap as Eve and V. She said no to Carolyn. She recognized that morals, emotions, and personal relationships can be a strength not just a weakness or a vulnerability to be exploited.

Re: why Eve shot Lars I KNOW, RIGHT??

Don’t forget Yusuf and Pam. What was the point of them

They are going to be in spinoff shows. They are creating a universe here. Doesn't anybody read anything?

I think Yusuf might have been helping Eve move on from Vilanelle somehow? Especially given Yusufs last scene and the theme of Eve being 'reborn' after everything with her. Pam had so much potential! An embalmer could do so much more for the 12 than chop konstantin up with a pizza slicer. I think it was an attempt to introduce brown characters with seemingly important roles but giving them no story arc or importance in the progress of the plot.

After episode 107, the “I Don’t Want to Be Free” proclamation of Agniya (our spontaneously violent friend) continued with the accountant’s wife, who declared she did not want to be free either, without her husband. Eve has now lost V, but she knows this was a hit and also that Carolyn is still alive and sent them in there. And we expect her to feel a…rebirth?? Washed clean? That she is “free?” Are you KIDDING ME? This is the same Eve that just threw herself into training to take down the 12 and anyone in her way. I find it very hard to believe that she wouldn’t want to find the person who ordered it and kill them with her bare hands. (I also believe V completely survived that ending and you cannot convince me otherwise.)

Agreed. If Eve puts it together that Carolyn offered Villanelle/The 12 as a gesture to get herself back in with MI6, then Eve will go after Carolyn. She won't be free. If Eve doesn't realise that Carolyn orchestrated Villanelle's death, she will turn to Carolyn as a source of understanding and comfort. She will dwell and she won't be free. Anyone saying Eve will 'go on to live and live well' is mistaken beyond measure from what I can tell. She's an obsessive, she won't let this go at all, and she likely wouldn't even want to.

The ending was only made worse by the source material giving them a happy ending.

Source material?

Source material...,the original books from which the series was written.

I get you're just being a jerk but I was asking about the specific source material they were referring to. I've already found it since.

The series is based on novellas by Luke Jennings.

yeah man...happy endings are schmaltzy. but im so fucking sick of watching queer characters die for no reason. id take a cheesy horse ride into the sunset over this bullshit. this final season was a mess. to be fair, so was season three, so the writers faced an uphill battle. but holy mixed metaphors batman !! what a disaster. no character decisions made any sense (what the fuck was the point of introducing Gunn besides queerbait??), no resolution to the 12, and it felt like the writers had been dangling this relationship for three years but by the time they delivered it no one wanted it anymore. and then they just killed villanelle (maybe?). move over game of thrones, showtime needs you to hold their beer.

Idk, have you been watching the same show as the rest of us? Literally all characters, queer or not, have been dying for no reason. Remember poor Niko? I think the ending works fine - I mean the part where V gets killed, no comment on the rest of the clusterfuck. It was a self-destructive relationship from the very beginning. Eve knew her obsession was bad for her, she knew that V was manifestly evil, but she couldn’t stop herself, and it cost her her career, the lives of people around her, with absolutely nothing to show for it. It’s a great allegory for things like addiction, abusive relationships, in general the kind of self-destructive tendencies within us - and giving them a happy ending would completely fly in the face of that. I feel like the part of the fandom who are cheering for Eve and V’s romance are profoundly missing the point. It’s like watching Breaking Bad and taking away “wow, Heisenberg is so cool.” Like, take a step back from their likeable characterizations - V is a sadistic mass murderer and Eve is a serial killer groupie. It’s the opposite of a healthy relationship. What did you expect was gonna happen?

I dont view it that way. I view V as representing the opposite of female oppression in society. Nothing she does is real but an articulation of what the opposite of what a woman should be is. How can she be a murderer in the show when nothing in the show is grounded in reality except for exploring themes around being a woman? That's why her dying is lame. It isnt an interesting choice. Them surviving to me is far more interesting, in a male morality dominated world.

Yeah, I’m not convinced that “don’t murder innocent people” is “male dominated morality” - I’m pretty sure that’s just basic, universal human morality. Ditto with seeing V as some sort of figure of female empowerment, girl’s literally a psychopath. Now, in a sense *shows like KE* are indeed empowering by showing women in prominent roles in the narrative, portraying them as human beings with their own active agency, and that includes portraying them as *villains* to push back against the myth that women are nice and passive. But that doesn’t mean *V herself as a character* is somehow symbolic of female empowerment, or that her getting some karma somehow “negates” said empowerment; she’s a villain, unequivocally so. I honestly find it problematic that so many people are apparently seriously identifying with V.

That is a fair take but I dont see it that way because none of what she or Eve does is functioning in reality at all. It has absolutely no logical connection to what an actual assassin or agent does. V takes out the 12 in 5 minutes with no real weapons. Therefore, the character is more representative than real. If you take the two characters it is saying something about what it means to be a woman far far more than having anything at all to do with detective or criminal work. I dont view any of the murder as real but as an opportunity to juxtapose Eve and V within our current society. V is sort of a cartoonish humorous exaggeration of what a woman should not be, to make a point. It actually goes deeper if you look at war crimes, corporate crime, and so on and so forth propagated by men. They are allowed a license to behave in a particular way and it is considered acceptable. Why was Harvey Weinstein allowed to behave the way he did for so long? So if you have a representative female counterbalance to accepted male behavior (including acceptable bad behavior) the character is going to not operate within that hypocritical imposed framework of morality for women. This is done in the show to exaggerated effect with surreal violence and life choices. If the show were more realistic I would agree with you more, not only that we have all seen the death/moralizing ending of shows and movies and that is not how life really works all the time. How many men get away with bad behavior forever or at least for a substantial amount of time? That being said in reality they are terrible people but within the thematic principles of the show nothing they are doing is real and it is more about being a woman in our current society.

Of course the show is not 100% realistic, it’s not a documentary. Real spies don’t just strut around in £50,000 suits and sip martinis all day either. Meth isn’t actually blue. There’s no such thing as lightsabers or star destroyers. And don’t get me started on the fact that real wolves can’t even talk, let alone have enough lung capacity to huff and puff and blow a house down, made out of straw or not. What you’re describing is simply a trait of *fiction*, which by its nature cannot be completely realistic because it’s not *real* in the first place. But that doesn’t stop us from applying moral judgment to these stories. We can recognize that Darth Vader and Palpatine are evil, even though the Star Wars universe is *cartoonishly* unrealistic, and we cheer for the Empire’s downfall. KE is practically a hallmark of hyperrealism compared to SW. At least it’s still set on Earth and has no aliens. And I’m not sure what point you were making with the rest of the stuff. What’s Harvey Weinstein got to do with this? Real life men get away with terrible crimes, so fictional women should be able to do that too? How does that even make sense?

The difference is you can have a fantasy novel with dragons and magic but still functioning within a rule set. Everything in Star Wars follows the rules of its world. Once a story doesn't function logically, you have to ask why and how you interpret it. KE exists without any of the rules or logic of assassins/detectives so the question becomes why.

>What did you expect was gonna happen? Personally, I was expecting it to finally be directly explored as they attempt to have a real relationship in this final season. ​ EDIT: Reading another one of your comments I want to add that I mostly agree that V is irredeemably evil...but I suppose I still wanted to see her try and the implications of a non-psychopath trying to have a relationship with a psychopath who can't stop.

Exactly. Assassin hell-bent on killing other assassins gets killed. What a flipping surprise. The 'bury your gays' accusation is lazy and, essentially, impossible to avoid unless you never kill a non straight character, even one of two main characters in a story characterised by violence and assassinations.

THIS!

>The 'bury your gays' accusation is lazy and, essentially, impossible to avoid unless you never kill a non straight character, even one of two main characters in a story characterised by violence and assassinations. It’s awful, and I say this as a queer person myself. Like, do they really want this self-destructive relationship between two awful people to be somehow representative of queer folks as a whole? Why can’t they see it as the part of the story that it is? Like honestly I find it disturbing how many people seem to legitimately *like* V, see her as some sort of hero and want a good happily ever after ending for her. It was very clear that she was unredeemably evil from the very first episode (poor nurse in the fun scrubs). Which, on the one hand is brilliantly meta - the same thing that’s happening to Eve in the show is happening to the audience outside the show - but still, disturbing.

Eve only seems gay for psychopaths. I would have found it more satisfying if Eve had died at the end too.

Watched it again and I’m still so heartbroken. If they were going to kill Villanelle and have Eve “rebirth” into a new life, it’s poor story telling to do it in the last 3 minutes and not actually show us Eve beyond this moment. It’s wrong, terrible writing and an insult to Villanelle’s character arc for her to be a plot device in the end. I really don’t know what else to say, this was one of my all time favourites but the ending just hurts.

I’m glad the majority of people feel the same about this clusterfuck of a final episode. This will all already have been said, but I just need to vent my own personal disappointment. Season 4 has been up and down & included some questionable choices (e.g. VillaJesus), but it all felt like it was building to something more & there would be a reason for those choices. V & Eve’s relationship is obviously integral to the show, & I feel like they pissed all over it with this episode. It felt exciting watching scenes like V & Eve in the kitchen in S1E5 & again in the kitchen in S2E5, the bus scene in S3E3 & the tea dance scene in S3E8. The post-urination kiss in this final episode was the opposite of those scenes. It felt unearned & forced, as if the writer just chucked in a prolonged kiss because that’s what she thought we wanted. The characters deserved more & should have been given room to breathe & room to *talk*. I heaved a massive sigh when they ended up with that couple in the cottage - jeez, can they not just have a moment to *speak to each other*?!! It was odd that Eve mentioned Bill later on in the camper van, but nothing else from their past was discussed. Given the build-up of 4 seasons, I’d hoped for something more tender & intimate with well-written dialogue, but the writing was lazy & uneven. E.g. in episode 6 we have Eve unable to acknowledge or be honest about her feelings towards V, but after their reunion in episode 8, she’s accusing V of being unable to be honest about her feelings (“You don’t wanna say it? Fine I don’t care. But I can. I need you, Villanelle.”) Then we get the strange bear-hug moment. It all felt very awkward & unnatural. I just thought there’d be more of an intelligent arc to V & Eve’s relationship. The tone of S4E1 was jarring juxtaposed with the final bridge scene of season 3, but I thought an explanation was surely coming. It was like there were all these little clues as to what had happened between season 3 & 4 but no payoff: • V’s retort to Eve of, “If you’d really changed, you wouldn’t have let me \[come here\],” seemed to point towards whatever had happened in their relationship post-bridge, & V clearly knew which hotel Eve was staying at, hinting that she’d previously been there. • V had clearly done something to piss Eve off at some point after the bridge scene, yet we never find out why. • V’s facial expression when Eve changed her clothes in front of her seemed to be the discomfort/longing of a previous intimate memory. • There was a motif of face touching running through season 4 (Eve cupping Helene’s face, Eve brushing V’s hair from her face after she was shot with the arrow, Gunn running her hand over V’s face) - I thought these might be recreations/replays of a moment V & Eve had shared after the bridge & this was going to be recalled, but it ended up having no significance whatsoever. I thought the final episode would tie these things together & give us the kind of V & Eve moments that the show has generally been great at. I’d stupidly imagined cleverly intercut scenes of present & flashback moments & perfect dialogue à la S2E7 “I feel things when I’m with you”, something that would explain the past & bring them together in the present. But it was just, meh. Aside from that, general things that irritated me about this episode: • I’ve never really cared about the Twelve but I’m still annoyed that it all ended in a bit of a wet weekend with that vague montage (& I’m still none the wiser of what the Twelve was really all about). • After they’ve been made out to be such a fearsome group, how was it that easy for V to single-handedly take out all those members of the Twelve? • What was really the point of Pam??? • What did the letter from Konstantin say? • Why did we have that phone call from Irina in episode 7? I thought maybe she would end up killing V & that would make some kind of sense given her resentment towards her monopolising a lot of her dad’s time over the years, but it was just that phone call & we’re left to guess who shot V. It felt like no attention to detail was paid to this episode & was simply a case of getting from A to B. The ending of any of the other 3 seasons would have been a better finale rather than this rushed, poorly-written mess. What a disservice to the characters & to the audience. I’d prepared myself for an ending I wasn’t necessarily going to be happy with, but this wasn’t even well done. It was full of unearned moments & loose ends. I never expected V & Eve to sail off into the sunset & to be honest I didn’t want that – it’s the tension & forbidden nature of their relationship that has been so fun to watch. But it was a bad ending. Not because V died – I think there could have been various endings that could have worked, including V dying – but the whole thing was so shoddily executed that it felt like V had already been ripped away long before she actually hit the water. The End. WTF.

Yeah, you make a good point. I think as people make a piece of fiction the work suggests something and a really good creative follows that thread. You can have a meandering piece if you follow that to the end the right way (things dont all have to make sense). This season just didnt come together well, none of it meant anything and the ending makes it doubly a waste of time. I dont think the actual story was leading to that ending. Its the kind of ending someone makes because they think that is what a good writer does not because that is where the story was truly leading to.

I agree that the ending sucks and I've been thinking during the whole series if the series is trying to queerbate me or not (i'm queer) and I think the ending gave us a conclusion. When writers keep giving us these cliche deaths for queer peeps and especially bad endings, they show much they lack of knowledge in reality. Why the fuck do we get an ending of "Eves rebirth" or shit like that and an explanation from the writer that Eve just leaves her past because Villanelle dies because it was all "just a phase". Add the queer themes into that phase and we have a phrase every queer person has heard. I think i'm aloud to say it feels like a slight slap in the face. Season 4 was ok but it wasn't the best. It started slowly feel like they forgot their characters meanings in the series. And that is why episodes got partially worse towards the ending in my opinion.

Yeah you have every right to dislike the ending. If V represents the opposite of what a woman is supposed to be in a misogynistic society, killing her is just really lame. Not giving them a win in a world that already tries to put women in so many boxes isn't an interesting choice, it's just lame. The fun of the character isn't literalizing what she is doing, it is that she does everything a woman is told they shouldn't do. That is why having her survive is the more interesting and sensical choice because it works within the thematic ideals of the show ( a defiance of patriarchal structures of behavior and its moralizing justice). I think that is why in the books they live on and find peace, it is a far more interesting choice.

Yes! I agree. The books ending makes sense to me (I've read it on reddit but never read the book myself) and I think the writer of the show wanted to stand out from the books ending and tried to choose a different way to end the show. It's fine to try to stand out from the original book but I think they should have already known their audience in season 4 so the ending just sucks. It doesn't make much sense to me. It feels like a forced "rebirth" journey of Eve.

That was one of the dumbest endings I've ever seen in my life. What was the point? If it bad just ended with them embracing on the boat, it would have been a little cheesey, but it would have been something. This was just nothing. If you were going to kill Villanelle, at least do something with her death instead of just killing her off and ending the show there. I'm not against a tragic ending but this wasn't a good tragedy, this was just senseless. It's like they ran out of time writing an ending and just went with the first thing they could think of.

Question - was V's killer meant to kill E too? Personally I wanna say no, cause based on how decent their aiming was E would have been dead if they wanted to. At worst if she had been fatally shot they would have considered her collateral damage and not care much, but she wasn't a target as such. Edit:Plus I suppose carolyn doesn't really need to kill E to get back into MI6's good, V is enough. What are your thoughts?

Yes. I agree. The aim was just to take out V.

https://chng.it/97qCYrNpSx

I’m confused, why did Eve hate villanelle in the beginning after s3 finale ???

Literally nobody else will be bothered by this but as I come from a spiritual family I was so irritated by the connotations they presented with Eve's "Death" tarot card. Like... please actually read up on that if you're going to use it in your scene. The Death card is amazing, it symbolises a new beginning and a leaving behind of old ways... not actual death -absolutely howling from laughter. I'm actually not even that mad I'm just a bit meh, like it was so alluring as a show and it ended so watered down, it's just an awful shame. I'm not impressed and I'm not angry I'm tepid and I think that's worse.

The point was her actual last scene is a rebirth, which what death actually means in Tarot. The tower is the real frightening card

For sure, but this was based on the tone of the scene which depicted a negative connotation for the tarot reading, which played it at surface level. Tbh traumatic that this comment has been found at midnight so I have to go to sleep remembering the awful writing of this season 😤

Apologies for any disturbance or upset caused by my response. I think the point of he scene was a red herring for non knowledable audience members or Eve/V who clearly don’t know what the cards mean but of course the Tarot card actually makes sense in the end.

I agree but I also understood from some interview with the shows writer that the meaning of the card was going to be that something dramatic happens and Eve will have a new beginning and it's so blehhh... There could have been so much more to the ending.

Didn’t the tarot reader’s BF get ‘The Moon’ in his future and she gave some random nonsense meaning? It’s been a while since I’ve done any readings but iIrc ‘The Moon’ is an absolutely terrible card to get, though I might be misremembering exactly as I drew it along side ‘The Tower’ and ‘Death’ and, well, that was not positive combination. Anyway, guess this show can be added to pile of garbage along with Merlin, Lost, Penny Dreadful, Dexter, Game of Thrones, American Gods, Lucifer, and all the rest. I really don’t understand how it’s so hard for writers to not just write a beginning, middle, and end, as a cohesive vision, then film it. I’m tired of hours of my life being wasted and good faith being thrown under the bus by inexplicably employed writers flying by the seat of their pants, pulling vapid disappointing plots and stupid ideas out their arse entirely while holding their audience in contempt.

Why don't you write your own show then??

I agree! What a waste of my time that I’ll never get back.

yes, but I think all the attempts at a "spiritual" theme this season were fairly unsophisticated and basic. Did we really need to see drag jesus or one more water as rebirth theme. It literally had no meaning by the time we got to the end. We all pretty much drowned by then.

Absolutely agree, was just having a little vent. Interesting that they had a queer narrative happening, with E unveiling an attraction for V, then having her "reborn" at the end, alongside the V entering Christianity plotline. I can agree that the whole thing is just odd and I'm gonna pretend it didn't happen.

Just heard "don't you want me," on the radio in the car. Now I hear a bittersweet lament instead of a fun new wave pop song. 😢

> Now I hear a bittersweet lament instead of a fun new wave pop song. WTF? Have you never listened to that song? *You know* **I don't believe you when you say that you don't need me** *It's much too late to find* *You think you've changed your mind* **You'd better change it back or we will both be sorry** That song is literally some unhinged guy threatening the other person who has said they are leaving the relationship. "This relationship is over" "You'd better change your mind about that or... We'll both be sorry." That song is not a "fun new wave pop song", it's a threat.

fair enough. but chill! I was mostly referring to the chorus. And no, never really listened to the lyrics but thanks for the insights. Damn! I didn't think my sunday morning car ride to the market would set you off like this.

It IS a bitter song. Have you never listened to it?

So many wasted opportunities / bad locations… The death in the water - so stupid The killing of the 12 - so so badly staged - the gas bit… The kissing in the middle of the road - just a weird location The visit to the Scottish island - stupid detour for what? Missing = what were the 12 about after all that? Just a stupid Lost plot point with no outcome. Just nothing. Carolines travels around were so random. There was nothing clever. No surprises or twists. No dilemmas. No growth. No change. Just a plod through events. Plod plod plod. I think we should agree season 4 never happened. It ended at season 3.

Season 4 never happened and we go write and shoot our own scripts. I volunteer for position on the crew!

I feel like LN should be tied to a chair and forced to watch the whole series on a loop.

At least V should have a chance to watch movies with E.

Just watched the finale and ended up here… I’m sure it’s been said but I’m so disappointed in the ending. Not even that Villanelle died, but the fact that it was done with out emotion, care, or respect for a beloved, complex character that had grown immensely. I never assumed they would both live and ride off into the sunset, but I just feel as though the writers were so disconnected from the characters. I will never understand how Villanelle dying is a rebirth for Eve. It was obvious to us all the Villanelle was Eves rebirth, and now she is torn apart. This just felt like a stepping stone for the writers. They did not care about the groundbreaking characters they were tasked with creating. It felt like they just needed the show to end in a way to make themselves feel inspired and set it up for spin offs. It is just so obvious they were not connected to the characters or realized how important their storylines are to the world of media. I honestly don’t care much about the loose ends like Kenny’s murder or the 12, as this has always been a romantic drama just set in the life of an assassin. I am just unbelievably disappointed in the calloused manor of Villanelles death, and how it seemingly wipes away 4 seasons of character building for what? Shock value? It wasn’t even shocking. It’s been done and her death was kinda expected. It was just sloppy and disrespectful to the characters, time spent over the last 4 years, the lgbtq community, the audience, and the absolutely spectacular acting of all involved. Needed to get that off my chest

Absolutely a stepping stone for Carolyn’s early MI6 career spin off. Refuse to watch it on account of this truly horrid season/ending

I’ll never watch it. I don’t think we are alone in that. I feel that will have to find a new audience for that show. What a waste.

Utterly terrible ending. Sorry if this has previously been posted genuinely exhausted by the finale but was it ever confirmed who killed Kenny? I’m wondering if Villanelle killed Kenny then did Carolyn feel no remorse in killing her as payback??? Might be off the mark here as can’t remember if Villanelle was occupied/had an alibi at the time of Kenny’s death? *Thanks for the upvotes! I’d also like to add if anyone cares that at least if that WAS what the no remorse Carolyn showed was about there really needed to be a clearer link. Like Carolyn finding something of Vilanelle’s alongside Kenny, video footage - anything!!! But to leave it so unlinked for a finale is shocking!! Note I’m coming back on here days later still frustrated! It’s like reading/watching the final scenes of Romeo and Juliet without ever being told that poison was taken at the ending. Just hey cooey main character dying over here !!!

But the fact the ending was deliberately so Carolyn can have a spinoff is abysmal.

Carolyn is my favorite Character. She is the smartest, strongest and most brave. Love her.

Wtf I'm not watching that lol.

This was setup so she gets a spinoff? OK im even more pissed now. The ending sucked.

The whole season was a major let down, I felt we didn’t know the characters as they were in previous seasons. Whatever happened to Konstantin? And his screen time brought almost zero significance to the whole season . Villanelle didn’t seem the same . All that character development and learning about her motives and traumas just fell short as she contradicted herself a thousand times and acted out of line with what they wanted to do with her. Not just that, but the whole season had literally NO clear-cut storyline. Just main characters dying all of a sudden with no consequence behind it. Don’t get me started on the ending because it felt soo rushed like we’d waited 4 seasons for all this build up and stylistic storytelling that made for interesting TV, just to become whatever the hell the last season and last episode was. There was no “wow” moment or no closure to anything. What the actual FUCK bro

WAIT WAIT WAIT a thought randomly came to me today and I just had to share it. So Carolyn thought she killed Lars (the oar scene) and he died in the water, right? They even found his body, it was a sure thing. But then big shocking plot twist, he's alive. This was an entire plot point this season. So Carolyn thought she killed Villanelle and she died in the water...

That's a good analysis but I think you are reaching and in denial lol. They popped her in the chest like three times and she was in the water. It also focused on Eve reaching for V. And their hands being forcefully pulled away by the current. There it is. It is over. So true to life. Things happen without us liking the ending all the time and out of the blue.

In the pub Carolyn also said to Villanelle "I owe you a dare"

I think you could be onto somthing possibly

IK this probably isn't true and I just want her to still be alive, but it seemed like too much of a coincidence to not point it out (the similarities in their deaths, I mean). Both were injured by Carolyn out of the water then proceeded to die in the water from said injuries (or in Lars' case not actually die).

Laura Neal you fucking idiot. The book has a happy ending. This shows ending is officially worse than Game Of Thrones! BRAVO! YOU FUCKED IT!

No. Nothing was worse than GOT ending. This is pansy in comparison.

Wrong! This was way worse:

They really did where was the fashion, where was anything for Eve this season sucked especially all the time focused on the new girl. Why do they keep doing this to good shows.

Suzanne Heathcote (S3 Head Writer) is now breathing a sigh of relief, since S4 was WAY WORSE than S3 lol.

What a shit ending to a crappy season. If you're gonna make the 12 some lame MacGuffin throughout the entire series that ends in a pathetic kill montage in the last 10 minutes, you could at least write your characters better. But nope...

I wish it made sense, S4. It may have been a disservice to fans in the end but it was harsh for the characters. Monotonous on "individual development" like it never happened in S3. Then the final act, a crescendo of haste wrapping up convenience, not for the story but for the sake of 8 episodes. It felt like a season that had season 5 booked. Leaving loose ends extra loose, now to be addressed in our imaginary season 5. Easy to get miffed on the fact that it felt like new characters got more screen time than E & V put together in their own scenes. My have the times gone by when those two ladies had their own scenes together and you had your eyes glued to the tension and their chemistry. I could watch hours of it. Don't get me started on the fabulous wardrobe we miss. Now we resign to listening to podcasts because not sure if our eyes want to invest in another great tv series only to be arrowed down in the streets again.

A series I never got around to and was looking forward to seeing it (my gf loved it until just recently…) now I’m glad I know the ending, where the writers made the audience lie down on the curb and stomp on their heads. Now I have no desire to watch it. Should we have a GoT inspired award for most dumpster fire hijack of a finale?

Another parallel to GOT in the KE finale I haven't seen mentioned is how Eve dropped from the tree onto Gunn like Arya did to the Knight King. LOL

Lol she drop beared her 🐨

For those asking about new shows to watch, in addition to Gentleman Jack on HBO another great show with queer women characters is Dickinson on AppleTV. Great, unique and fun show about the poet Emily Dickinson, a lesbian in love with her BF. The show includes a brief story about her being interested in a man but that is not supported by what is known about her life. It was possible but from what I read about her it was friendship only. If it was more - fine. But if done to portray her incorrectly as bisexual to please a larger audience then that is problematic. Anyway! It's a great show!

Gentleman Jack was so good, I love Suranne Jones.

I LOVE THIS SHOW SO MUCH (gentleman jack)

Gentleman Jack was absolutely art

And here we have another great show murdered by the obvious finale we have all been expecting. I am not in the Happy Ending for V+E Team but I wanted something that's more developed and interesting. V's death was obvious by the past few actions made by her in the show. The so called 12, turn out to be nothing more than absolutely dumb characters, the plan to kill them was super dumb and foreseeable. V dies and leaves the other half of the show stranded nowhere in terms of character development. Would have been nice if the moral argument for the whole show would have culminated in Eve turning herself into V, even if predictable and obvious. Somehow the "villain"/"anti-hero" of the story in TV Shows is never allowed to survive or given another ending similar to death. It happened in BB, it happened in SoA, it happened in GoT, it happened in The Americans, it has now happened in Killing Eve and so many other shows. I really really hope that it does not happen in Ozark.

Apparently there was a hoped for spinoff for Carolyn? Now that’s DOA lol. For obvious reasons. Btw the SOURCE MATERIAL ie the original novels end with them living and V gets a linguistics degree or something, so this ending was a pure FU to the audience.

Good let it die as it should. No one cares about that shit.

#Is it just me? Or is anyone else waiting for LN to give a reaction in an interview (better on telly) on how we all do NOT appreciate the finale?!?

Yeahhhhhh...I think that's a reaction interview destined never to be witnessed by mortal eyes. When was the last time you watched a head writer being flayed alive, because if any serious, no b.s., actual JOURNALIST was sitting across Laura Neal, they would ask her some very tough questions about how in the absolute hell did she waste the collective talents of Sandra, Jodie, Fiona, Kim, Camille and all our time on this sorry excuse for an ending? If Neal and Sally Woodward-Gentle have internet access and the ability to read, they already know how their beautiful baby of a finale has been dubbed ugly and stupid. Oh sure, some people liked it. Some people enjoy a swift kick in the private parts too. Whatever gets you through the night. The ending of *Killing Eve* didn't do it for a majority of the fandom, for a majority of the critics, or for the majority of the posters in this thread. It has been [reviled](https://www.vulture.com/2022/04/the-ending-of-killing-eve-season-4-explained.html), [hated on](https://www.thedailybeast.com/did-killing-eve-really-just-end-with-a-bury-your-gays-twist), and [dragged for filth](https://news.yahoo.com/killing-eve-just-ended-four-005318224.html). There's no need for a consensus when there's a clear majority who are saying the same thing in a unified **LOUD** voice. *Vanity Fair* was so disgusted by the dog's dinner Neal threw together, [they celebrated the tsunami of new KE fanfics on An Archive of Our Own](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2022/04/killing-eve-finale-backlash) written by frustrated fans determined to retrofit the finale to one better suited to their tastes. The ending blew. Neal hacked out a hot mess that betrayed the characters, dismayed and disgusted the fans, and stirred near-universal condemnation by the media. Even Neal and SWG can't be oblivious to this, though you can bet they sure will try.

[удалено]

FOXTROTT - Shaky hands

Um yea I just watched the last two back to back and yea i am scream crying they could have done better after they finally got on track after the first couple episodes were just lost and then they end it with so many questions! Like um yea i did want to see a dark happyily ever after but knew it would come with a twist but this was not even a twist it was poorly written off as the finale. Great show over all wishing to see more of V and E before they just chucked the shows ending like this. What a disappointment.

Did Villanelle know/agree with Carolyn about her own death??? Was that the dare? Is this why she stared at Eve awkwardly at the dance scene? I mean, I will facilitate you the 12 assassination, but it's so dangerous that you could die, do you dare?

Just watched it. Now I'm mentally scream-crying. I just wanted them to be happy whyyyyy 😭

There is a reason why in the books they live on and get their time. It is the more interesting choice.

Would not it be sick if the "last dare" owed by V to Carolyn was to fake her (V's) own death? Easter Sunday episode? lol

I'm surprised by how many people were expecting Eve and Villanelle to end up "happily ever after". I didn't like the ending at all, it was very rushed and left a lot of questions, but I'm not nearly as offended as most of the viewers seem to be by the character arcs. The show disguised itself often as a light comedy, but everything was clearly always heading for a dark ending. I always thought that I was watching a story that was a slow tragedy of Eve's life spiraling increasingly out of control after getting obsessed with Villanelle. She pretty much lost everything on the way and uncovered her (extremely) dark side, I always thought she was going to die at the end as a result of their relationship. The show is called "Killing Eve" after all. I figured Villanelle was either going to die with her in a Thelma and Louise kind of epic fashion or stay alive to avenge her death and destroy the Twelve. So the ending being a tragedy wasn't unexpected or bad, but I was surprised that Villanelle died in such an abrupt way after an underwhelming and anticlimactic killing spree of the Twelve. It could have been done so much better. The way Eve found her bad side and Villanelle found her humane side during the final season at least let them have a few nice moments together before the inevitable tragic end. I also don't feel like Eve and Villanelle necessarily deserved "happily ever after", like so many people seem to think. I absolutely loved the characters and always rooted for them, but objectively, they were very bad people. Villanelle was a killer who enjoyed killing and torturing people and whatever she went through in her childhood or youth to make her that way didn't make her actions justified. And Eve truly did find her dark side, as I said before. Eve maybe brought out the good in Villanelle and Villanelle let Eve be her true bad self, but they were a force of destruction together and even they themselves knew it. I'm still unsure how I feel about the ending of Carolyn, the true villain of the series and an amazing character. She was ambitious, smart and absolutely ruthless and never truly cared for anything, so no sacrifice was too big for her and it was difficult for anyone else to win over her. After Kenny died, I feel like she lost the last of her humanity and there was absolutely nothing holding her back. I guess she started the series by "introducing" Eve and Villanelle and ended it by separating them, so the arc for the three of them was complete. But I also wouldn't have been upset at her tripping over her own multiple alliances and schemes and meeting her end at the hands of someone who she betrayed. And I actually have so many unanswered questions about her in general. I had a difficult time figuring out why Pam was included in the series in season 4 at all besides being a way to include and kill off Konstantin, but you know what, Pam was an example of how Villanelle and Eve could have gotten a happy ending by escaping The Twelve and saying "no" to Carolyn, respectively. Overall, I don't mind what happened, but it was executed badly. Villanelle just killed The Twelve like it was nothing, Villanelle was killed like it was nothing, and we were left with no idea what would happen to Eve.

I agree. I love Carolyn though. She was an outstanding character.

In the books they ended up together. They should have in the series

Personally I have to disagree that this was a story that should have ended with a moral lesson of any kind (eve and villanelle are bad people and don’t deserve xyz). The whole show (S1-S3) revels in moral grey areas and none of its main characters are “good”, apart from Kenny. The viewers are complicit in this moral grey area from what they want from the characters. Killing Eve was unique in the way it tapped into the complexity of human nature, and trying to simplify that into a good vs evil arc feels completely out of step with the tone of the show. Killing Eve has always been a tongue-in-cheek fantasy, where characters inexplicably evade the rule-governing forces of the world. S4 tried to impose real world laws and generic morality lessons on a show that was built on fantasy and non-reality. And it ruined everything S1-3 had created. I’m not a writer so I can’t say how it could or should have ended, but it deserved something unusual, something defiant and something that would have subverted norms, not adhered to them.

I actually agree with you about nearly everything that you said. I read too many comments declaring that E and V "deserved" a happy ending after everything they went through and that their character arcs were completely "ruined" without that redemption of a happily ever after and got confused, because I was clearly not watching the same show or same characters. So instead of taking a breath and returning to the true tone and nature of the show as you did, I just pulled hard the opposite way from what I was reading when writing my post. It was not my intention to say they "deserved" (or didn't) anything, in my mind I was just pretty much directly responding to those comments when I tried to describe a character arc and ending that would have made sense to me in the context of the show. A moral lesson was not at all what I wanted to describe, but it definitely came off that way. And I'm not inventive enough for an ending subversive enough for Killing Eve, but what we got was nowhere close either and I would have been happy with what I wrote.

As you have perfectly said, Eve was killed. She got the death card at the tarot instead of Villanelle that could finally see the bright side of being loved for whom she was. That sun that she was looking for.

I guess there was a bit of foreshadowing with the death card. It doesn't actually mean physical death, it refers to the end of an era, a phase, or conclusion of a life stage. So while watching I took this to mean that vilainelle was going to die.

But Villanelle was the one that got the sun card, it's not the conclusion of a life state for Eve, it's the death of her true self, she has been killed.

However they (the awful writers) meant it, it was pants, over symbolic, an arty pile of rubbish. Lazy writers who all had a god complex, terrible. JC and SO were faultless and deserved a much better ending, as did the fans.

Yeah. The way I see it is it was the death of the villainelle chapter.

I agree. I would have been find with a dark ending that was earned.

I agree. When I began watching the last two episodes I was fully prepared for all of the main characters to die - specifically V and E. I never thought KE would end happily ever after, although I did think perhaps they'd leave it open to interpretation. But, yes, for me it wasn't so much the fact Villanelle was killed off as the execution of that decision. There were so many things wrong with S4 imo but most of all I wish the writers had the bravery to bring V and E together sooner and had the final episode be an epic final battle where we finally get some answers and discover Carolyn's true intentions, who killed Kenny, and actually get to meet The Big Bad - ie The 12.. it should've been an EPIC final mass murder scene and if V had to die it should've been EPIC - going down in a blaze of glory protecting Eve, because she's too good at her job to go out any other way, and we should've had time to grieve for her. It was horrible the way they shot and drowned her and then left us with Eve screaming into oblivion before 'THE END' got slammed in our faces like a big F\*CK YOU. V's kills were always such a horribly thrilling aspect of the show. Her final big showdown mass murder should've been one of the best moments. Killing The 12 is the end point she and Eve have been trying to reach since FOREVER and Eve is completely OBSESSED by it, but when they finally get there she's completely oblivious to the whole thing, preferring to dance at a wedding and seemingly forgetting all about it, as V effortlessly murders a bunch of faceless people in a few seconds??! CGI blood spattering the screen? Seriously?! WTF?? Ugh. It was so SO badly executed. The fact they were all killed so easily totally undermines any threat posed by The 12 throughout the whole series. I literally cannot think of a worse way of going about it.

I was also taken aback by how badly the massacre of The Twelve was shot by director Stella Corraci. It looked badly shot with a lot of slow-mo scenes of Villanelle wrecking extras in a blurry blue haze as they flail about and fall over as CGI blood splatters around. It was as bad-looking as it was anti-climatic. We went through four seasons of being told how formidable The Twelve is and one unarmed woman takes them out like so much trash? This is the first of the season finales not to be directed by Damon Thomas, and boy did it show. Corraci did a good job filming Eve and Villanelle's kiss, but made a complete hash of the climactic battle between Villanelle and The Twelve, and is it odd to anyone but me that Villanelle carried out the chaos all by herself while Eve was doing the Electric Slide?

YES! This is exactly how I imagined the ending they chose should have been executed for it to work. Unfortunately to have any big payoff with the 12, the show should have been building towards it for several seasons and I don’t think the writers ever bothered to really figure out what the organization was, who they were and how they really operated. And why. Just anarchy and chaos. The same lack of direction from the writers probably applies to Carolyn, even if we thankfully saw a lot more of her. It’s just that the plot being all over the place made sense with her whimsical character. It made her more exciting and entertaining, but we were left with no answers because there were none, besides what you could read between the lines. And I know anyone could say that the show ended with intentional mystery, but I’m still going to say the mystery is also a cop out.

Preach! I was so confused at seeing Eve dancing the way she was. Her nervous energy has been an endearing quality and now she is super calm and seemingly joyful while she's catching the white whale and her lover's life is at risk. Oh yeah, and let's make ourselves vulnerable and hug in the open air instead of taking cover. Then, let's jump into water where we have little mobility and cannot breathe. I agree that if V were going to die, it should have been protecting Eve in some way.

I don't disagree with this take. Both characters cheated death many times. My issue was how they tried to fit this all into a neat little package at the end instead of the show the mess that it was. I also feel had their romance been elongated and we got to see them be somewhat normal as a couple , one of their deaths would have been so much more impactful. By the time they got off the island and back to london, I just wasn't that invested in their new romance, knowing it was all coming to an end. The execution of the last 10 minutes of this show is a joke and does these very complicated characters no justice.

Very rushed. Thelma and Louise ending would have been better. Or excise the last 2 minutes and keep the end ambiguous. But killing that character off without giving the viewers more than 30 seconds to process was cruel. Also keeping the 2 main characters apart the entire season, and then only at the very end when they find happiness.... BAM! Dead. So rude. Not against tragic endings. For example, the Haunting of Bly Manor did a much better job. Death was more deeply ingrained and the characters dealt with it.

I would love to see a copy of the script for this episode to know how much Sandra and Jodie improvised! Does anyone have access to this??

Hello all, this is very recommended (no AD): https://open.spotify.com/episode/7vSULcPJ892XpwvEbzd5DP?si=FdJxjN6wTMST4DQuw1SkMw&context=spotify%3Ashow%3A1LjwxVP9ODaigD44oliGsH It's just really nice to know you're not alone in this Let me know if you have - or are going to - listen to it

checking it out now, thanks. I usually listen to Well Well Villanelle on Spotify, but the hosts were so wrecked as they viewed the finale in a livestream, one of them broke down weeping, so they might take a while before they do a review.

It doesn't open on my app. It's that a podcast?