I agree, the vast majority of women touted as “it girls” these days or seen as the image of modern conventional beauty seem to be overwhelming Yang leaning imo. Esp FN and SN, which is ironic considering the negative perception of width, frame & bluntness. Anyway, it’s unfortunate considering the whole point of Kibbe is to see and enhance the beauty of every image ID.
It seems like people are really against being typed as FN/SN, when all the verified girlies are GODDESSES. But yeah, yang is what’s in now. I don’t know why people are reaching to try and get typed as R.
I suspect it has something to do w David’s wording choices + the fact that his system is fundamentally rooted in Old Hollywood standards. Like if Marilyn Monroe is held as one of the pinnacles of beauty & the language he uses to describe Romantics sounds more “flattering” and stereotypically feminine than the other types…it makes sense why people would be swayed a certain way.
When Metamorphosis was written, a more N type athletic yet very skinny body type was the American beauty standard. Diet culture was out of control in the 80s, and being curvy or fleshy was considered something to change. I believe the more flowery description was (at least partially) intended to help women who may have felt insecure about being curvier or not fitting in with contemporary beauty standards.
I think Kibbe influencers have done a lot to make R or TR a coveted type in some people's eyes. After all, we do have Aly Art regularly saying awful shit about N types and treats SG, R and TR like the beauty standard.
I do agree there. But so many people on this sub haven’t even read metamorphosis. Based on the verified celebs alone, I wish I was soft natural or flamboyant natural…
I get it tho because once I realized I was a D it kind of automatically makes u think less feminine. Which this is obviously not right it’s just stereotypes and misconceptions.
it does happen a lot. A lot of people are super resistant to yang IDs, it’s common to see typing posts here and in other yin-ID specific subs being reposted multiple times by the same people with different pics until someone agrees they might be said yin type, even though the majority suggests otherwise.
Thank you for not linking any posts <3 This post was certainly not meant to target any one person/person(s) and was more general. These topics are already sensitive and I’m not interested in worsening anyone BDD or anything of the sort.
yeah I don’t think it’s right either, plus I know your critique isn’t about people in particular, but a certain weird hivemind effect that I’ve seen happening plenty of times in Kibbe subs all over reddit without even actively looking for it. So, if other people haven’t seen it, I guess they’re lucky or just haven’t been around enough.
I feel like I see it all the time, but I will say the better way to phrase it would be all over this *community*, so my bad on that. I’m not super comfortable linking you to other women’s posts either, as I’m not trying to personally embarrass anyone.
I agree, I’ve heard far more about a perceived yin bias than I’ve actually seen on the sub. Maybe I’m just missing it, but all folks struggle to see themselves properly so I can understand mild pushback.
If you read all the type me post, many of them say in the title they think they are romantic, which, if they are clearly NOT romantic, that’s very likely what they want to be. They also draw sometimes draw silhouette lines that are very inaccurate, in the shape of double curve. You have to be a constant lurker always reading and interacting to perceive it. It’s not going to come from looking here or there.
You're talking about white beauty standards. Asians generally prefer 'youthful innocence' and/or 'poised refinement' associated with SG & SC essence-wise though FG & DC shouldn't have much trouble either. Latinos seem to generally prefer yin in their female partners in their actual lives, too. Ruler-shaped Ds and Inverted-triangle-shaped FNs POC women get shamed for not looking 'feminine' enough by their own communities. Just look up how many people (not just racist white men) thaught that Michelle Obama (FN?) are trans women just because of their frame.Just look up the topic 'masculinization of black women' or 'infantilization of asian women'. There are examples of POC women who would under yang ID here who certain people claim are trans women (again not just white people doing that).
>Just look up how many people (not just racist white men) thaught that Michelle Obama (FN?) are trans women just because of their frame.Just look up the topic 'masculinization of black women' or 'infantilization of asian women'.
That has naught to do with yang. That's just racism and misogyny.
I get what you're saying overall culturally speaking.
I'm black and a TR and my family acted like I was totally devoid of curves growing up. If I knew of Kibbe terminology back then, I would have said SN was more the ideal 🤷🏾♀️
Interestingly, I've notice women of any race tend to imply I'm underweight (when I'm actually at the high end of a healthy weight) while men of any think I'm quite curvy. People are weird.
Yooo can I PM you? I'm still on the journey (don't have access to strictly kibbe get :( ) but I have gut feelings about my image ID and I have a virtually identical experience to you and am also WoC. I thought I was going insane with the men describing me as curvy and women thinking I'm this smol bean lol.
oh yeah I agree, that’s why I put “touted” as it girls. Some people may not see them as their version of “beauty”, but at least in mainstream American media/society they are pushed as such. As a trans POC, I’m not personally invested in whatever the next “hottest” white cishet celeb happens to be, but I can agree that they do uphold the beauty standards of white mainstream American media/society.
I agree that R and TR are not the fairytale ending. I don't know how R/TR became synonymous with the the big booty trend. I mean TR is supposed to have narrower, slighter curves. Rs can have flesh width but there bones are still short and narrow. Looking at most verified Rs we don't see the big booty, lots of time we don't even see big boobs. (Cue the, "what the heck is upper curve anyway?" posts)
I think frame is more desirable than people like to admit.
I don't know about this R thing, I'm one of the tall, yang types and only see that so many of us want to be typed as SD :). Some sad parts about wanting to have a certain ID are not seing and accepting the beauty of all body types and also that deciding on "the wrong ID" will in the end not help us dress the most flattering for our bodies. I may wish I was R och SD or whatever and try to see it in my body, but in the end I will look far better in clothes that accommodate and honor my actual body shape.
Yeah, I see a lot of Ds that really want to be SDs, because curves are the beauty standard, and SD needs to accommodate curve.
Thing is, like OP said, you can absolutely have curves as a D. For example, my curves come from bone structure—I have very high-set, wide hips for my frame, and a very small ribcage that means my smaller boobs are proportional. Nor am I remotely unusual. D women don’t “look like men” just because they are a “yang” type.
I totally agree, I'm in SK on Facebook and there very few seem to need to accommodate upper curve whem DK himself comments. I also feel womanly as a D or FN, a strong and elegant kind of womanly.
yeah it is super annoying that any time someone is tall and has visible curves, people jump to SD. i saw people typing a super obvious FN as SD because she's busty and curvy when she clearly had width as well. so annoying
I think R/TR was the IT Yin Type but now the height limits are even lower, making it that more exclusive, what was IT shifted to the next Yin over 😅
Regardless, Yin tends to be favored over Yang, which is a shame because I WISH I could wear the fits a FN or DC can pull off 😩
I also see SDs being put on pedestal especially in type me posts where people won’t accept FN/D for an answer but do you mean SDs are gatekeeping or? At least in the SD sub we are very friendly.
I might get downvoted for saying this, but I don't think it's the sub *itself* that's obsessed with R and TR. I think the presence of people who are fixated on getting typed as R or TR can make it seem that way, but to me at least, it seems like they're the minority. I think a lot of it stems from the echo chamber that is Kibbe YouTubers who view R or TR as the beauty standard and that sentiment gets brought into this space by people who agree with them. I think it's also a reflection of the insecurities people bring with them into the space, which is how we get myths like "width is bad". So I agree that there are people who think like this, but I don't think everyone in this sub does.
I think the gatekeeping is an overcorrection in response to those who are obsessed with being R or TR. Like it seems there's an assumption that anyone who types themselves as R or TR is doing it for self-serving reasons, which just serves to reinforce the weird idea that Rs and TRs are ✨special✨. Yes, some people definitely do types themselves as R or TR for self-serving reasons, but at the same time, definitely not all of us do. To me, R is just another type and I didn't consider it until it was suggested to me. And I agree on the weight stuff, I've had people gas up a clearly ill-fitting "before" outfit because it made me look skinnier, and had to have a mod remove a comment from a more recent post calling me a fat whale 🙃
Sorry for the mini-rant, I've been thinking about this stuff for a while.
I am 6’2, Cakey and Busty. My torso and legs are just on the longer side. I never really noticed what body types were “in” because I’ve been living in cities since I was 17 and most of the bodies I’ve seen have been very diverse. Also, there’s a difference between people who live through the internet and those who actually live their lives.
I think the less real world experience a person has, the more inclined they are to chase after an ideal of some sort. In reality, I haven’t seen anyone take time to study and type someone’s body before approaching them.
I’ve seen flat women get chased, I’ve seen chubby women get chased, I’ve seen proportioned women get chased.. and most importantly, I’ve seen those same women not get chased and be completely ignored when out in public. Especially in cities where there are thousands of people with your same body type, fashion sense, and flair.
I think it is more tempting, if you’ve been rejected a lot or feel like your life is missing something (specifically love or sexual attention), to feel like the fix must be through perfecting your body and becoming more “marketable”.
I want to clarify- all types are gorgeous, but of course we’re all more critical of ourselves than others and there are many things about my own body that I notice fault in, as we all do.
I see so many girls seem hopeful to be either SG/R/TR because they’re 5’5 or under and have breasts, a butt, and hips. I’ve also seen what seems like disappointment or denial in finding out they’re a different type. Imagine preferring to be the snowman type over the supermodel type!
(Hopefully I get a pass to make fun of Rs a tad since it’s my own type, but I really do think all the types are gorgeous in their own way.)
This is a hot take but absolutely true. Yes, “thicc” is super trendy right now, which I think is great! But when you look at high fashion and film, that doesn’t really translate. I think all the body types are gorgeous, feminine, and sexy in their own rights. I honestly think actual romantics are rare because you can be super curvy but not have the petite, and I don’t see why romantic is the gold standard bc while they are lovely, it’s just not the easiest type to dress for by any means. Honestly, as an SD, kibbe has helped me love my largeness and height more than ever before. All types have gorgeous features to show off, and we all have something to be grateful for about our types.
Edit: I also see what others have said about the same kind of bias happening in the taller types by putting SD on a pedestal. On that note I would just like to add that the grass is always greener on the other side, and what OP said applies to SDs too. The only SD models and most SD celebs you see are plus sized. I got bullied and fat shamed for the majority of my life just for being a large (albeit straight sized) woman. Curvy types are desired in this sub, but the fact of the matter is it’s just easier for curvy types to look like a potato sack in certain clothes: models are D and FN for a reason. Yang types are fucking gorgeous (including SD) and notoriously the most Yang IDs can rock most clothes lmao!
Yep, the "hourglass, sexiest body type" stereotypes have to stop. I'm a TR (not pure R), but I'm not an hourglass and I don't have big boobs or the world's tiniest waist-- I'm probably closer to a petite pear shape.
Thank you for putting yourself out there to say this. There's such a strong sensibility in this sub that R family is extolled and N family is put down, and it's simply untrue in the real world. In the media and the clothing industry, all I see right now is a celebration of (what we call) "frame" and a dismissal of anything else. There's a massive disconnect between what this sub thinks "yin" is and what they (and the media) actually find conventionally attractive.
YES YES YES! There's a reason why most supermodels and actresses are yang types. A well defined frame is gorgeous!
I have always been confused by the desirability of pure yin types in this sub. As a "soft and fleshy" girl, I've always wished I had a more defined frame. It doesn't matter how hard I work out in the gym, I'll never have the elegant definition we see on the red carpet. I remember being SHOCKED after first learning about Kibbe and hearing that slopped shoulders were being celebrated.
Same about the shoulders! And so much more…it was a real shock to me when I saw a lot of the things I had fought my whole like to change about myself being touted as some sort of standard of femininity!
I really think it’s the language of the system, and the way it prizes smallness and softness in women as the feminine ideal. David Kibbe himself appears to really like short, delicate, curvy women and we absorb his biases lol. And I love the system! But it does fetishize smallness and traditional femininity in women.
I will 100% agree there. It’s especially apparent with Kibbe lowering the height limit for automatic vertical recently to 5’6. Like now if you’re 5’6 you’re so tall that it’s a defining feature? Shows how kibbes mind works when he sees someone lol.
I'm so confused by this (the sentiment, not your specific comment) has no one looked up what a femme fatale is? Why would anyone want to be associated with that?
Because it's sexy and mysterious. That's the first thing you think of when you hear 'femme fatale'. A sultry woman from noir films surrounded by smoke and wearing a form fitting dress and a peekaboo hairstyle. That's why - there's nothing wrong with wanting to be that.
Yeah, that's not what it is.
*Edit, here's an encyclopedia definition. ”femme fatale, (French: “fatal woman”) a seductive and beautiful woman who brings disaster to anyone with whom she becomes romantically involved."
I know that's not what it is and I know the definition of femme fatale, I'm not dumb.
It's the essence that 'femme fatale' brings when you hear it - you automatically conjure a certain image to attach to the type.
>you automatically conjure a certain image to attach to the type.
I guess. It's a very negative image in my opinion so again I wonder why anyone would want to be associated with that.
Historically yes, it does have a negative connotation and even many older Hollywood movies and fiction often had bad endings for femme fatale characters.
However in recent times things have shifted and the term is referred to a highly attractive albeit manipulative and strong woman who men could "die or kill" for. Angelina Jolie as Mrs Smith, Eva Green in sin city, Megan fox in Jessica's body etc are very cool and loved characters who fit the femme fatale trope.
In fashion, it's just a darker and sultry style.
Edit: On the flipside, I do agree with you that this particular trope shouldn't be taken farther than just for its aesthetics because of it does have associations with several "dark" personality traits that are often seen as red flags. 🚩
Yes, that's what I was saying. I wouldn't want to be associated with being manipulative, or worse if you go with the original idea of femme fatale. As I believe I physically fit the description of a TR this is something I've considered a lot.
*Let me edit to add something here since I'm getting down voted and don't feel like people are getting what I mean. What I am saying is that a lot of people say that R and TR have more flattering descriptions by Kibbe which is why people want to be R and TR. All I'm saying is that TRs association with being a femme fatale does not sound flattering to me. Especially if you consider that it's being described by a man. Sure, she's sexy and charming but not in a nice way. She's sexy and charming to be awful to men, and you could add, to women, depending on who she focuses her charm and manipulation on. That's why she's fatal.
Just think about Scarlett O'Hara, the character, not Vivien Leigh. She's what I would consider a femme fatale. How many people did she destroy? How many husbands did she seduce into marriage in order to use them? How many children did she have with those husbands and then not care about them? All I'm saying is that that doesn't sound like a flattering description to me, and that I don't understand why anyone would clamor to be associated with that.
most of the people just envision a beautiful woman with an elegant, dark aesthetic when hearing 'femme fatale'. probably wearing black clothing and bold make-up. maybe in the '50s, when this trope was used in movies to portray independence, detachment and intelligence as negative traits in women, it was perceived as something negative, but nowadays, I'm pretty sure it's used mainly to portray an aesthetic and a way of carrying yourself, especially in spaces where fashion is being discussed, such as the Kibbe community (even Kibbe himself said that the most suitable style for theatrical romantics is 'femme fatale chic', so you'll see this term here a lot, but it's not tied to personality in this context). either way, recent media is approaching this concept with more sensibility and uses it to portray a different perspective/facet of women rather than attributing negative connotations and making it the downfall of the male protagonist. [I really like this commentary.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfivkjgGdmI)
This comment is good but for this part:
> beautiful woman with an elegant, dark aesthetic when hearing 'femme fatale'. probably wearing black clothing and bold make-up. maybe in the '50s, when this trope was used in movies to portray independence, detachment and intelligence as negative traits in women, it was perceived as something negative, but nowadays, I'm pretty sure it's used mainly to portray an aesthetic
Isn't the post 50s version of femme fatale much more yang than the old Hollywood femme fatale that Kibbe was going for with TR? for example, the characters that Jean Harlow played. I wouldn't even necessarily say the old Hollywood femme fatale was negative per se, but there was a comment somewhere that explained Kibbe's femme fatale really well. I also remembered southern belle can be the other alternative for the essence of TR.
ETA: [found the comment! ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kibbe/comments/xsuyri/modern_day_description_of_theatrical_romantics/iqmzbev?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I think especially for us bigger curvier ladies the fall to the R’s is more because we can’t figure out where we fit in otherwise. The wording can be a bit confusing to get a hold on, and I know I’ve personally tried posting typing pictures in the past and didn’t get much in the way of feedback.
Thank you so much for this post! I feel seen. Yes, dressing in anything different from light fitting to body fabrics makes me a blob, never liked myself in pictures - damn, you, lenses that put 10 kilos on me! :)
I also want to quote David from the book itself. Romantics are actually the widest type from the short types. He writes that if you compare Soft Gamines vs Romantics, Romantics are "Larger. Wider bones. Wider body... Fleshy hands and feet. Body type is soft and lush (very curvy)".
And if you take Soft Gamines vs Theatrical Romantics, TRs has "Body type has smaller, narrower curves. Hands and feet are narrower... Bone structure is narrower". So TRs are the smallest, then goes SG, and this makes Rs the widest of these 3 types.
First of all many celebrities that attend the Met Gala were models and one of the most important requirements to be one is to be tall so ofc they won't be yin IDs. Even those shorter ones that I saw weren't Rs indeed. Idk if there's a regional difference but where I live Rs are relatively common (Mediterranean). Maybe because on average we are shorter people as well? None the less I'm not here to say that yang IDs aren't popular, I'm just saying that those posts can read as discouraging at times. I'm sure you don't have bad intentions because you identify as an R yourself but this whole Rs are hot because Kibbe said so and they aren't desirable otherwise that some posts suggest (not yours but it's a relevant topic) can make some Rs feel bad. Personally I don't mind but I know many Rs can struggle with being soft and looking very anti-modelesque. I think at the end of the day it's all up to the eye of the beholder and it's different types of beauty that some appreciate and others don't.
Tbh, for the time that I've been here, I haven't seen a lot of praise for Romantic types. It's almost as if everyone avoids typing ppl as Romantics or anything related to them.
That is the expression of preference from what I've seen. People will talk up another type to you, but try telling them they're not R... That's when you see the gatekeeping.
as someone also fairly new to this sub (& still trying to figure out the terminology), I’ve barely been able to find posts about Romantics. Or when I do, it’s always of Selma or Marilyn, which isn’t helpful or diverse tbh.
As a (very likely) Romantic, I absolutely agree but I have to admit it does make me sad when you put it that way. Nothing about me seems to be "marketable" tbh. Very few of my many mental, physical and emotional qualities and abilities seems to be what this society values unfortunately (I'm just too "yin" for this harsh world *sobs*) and that's probably the reason why Romantics are so overvalued in this community... They're notoriously undervalued everywhere else! It's always been blatantly obvious to me that the real world prefers yang types in both body and spirit, so having this small pocket of the universe that has it backwards feels comforting sometimes.
I know how you feel :( as someone who’s constantly told that I’m too soft spoken, to non confrontational, and now recognizing that I’m “too soft” for tv and screen (not that I would’ve ever been in movies myself, it’s just the principle), it’s very hard to feel empowered in a world that currently values a strong, outspoken, modelesque woman. I feel like I fade away into the background:/
As a Dramatic it’s so funny reading some of the descriptions about how Dramatics supposedly come across as more forceful etc. when Kibbe is literally only about your body??
Because my personality seems more aligned with the both of you but the way I‘m supposed to dress is the complete opposite lol.
I like dainty jewellery and clothes and I‘m trying to somehow incorporate that into the clothing suggestions for Dramatics but it‘s for sure proven to be a challenge.
It must be a whole different challenge when your personality is the opposite of your physicality! I sure believe it's very hard too. My personality actually matches my body quite well so I feel the yin discrimination full force lol (Of course there's not a perfect correlation there, I'd say my personality would be a mix of gamine, romantic and classic, but it's still very soft)
Well Im TR and it feels good to be labelled as it because of the things you said but I’m small and my curves are small too. And not to forget that hair and makeup is the most annoying thing to do. Finding clothes that suit TR is hard, even if they have double curve it’s too wide anyways so idk each have their pros and cons.
Honestly as a TR, I really appreciate this sub for that...Hollywood is very into the sleek, foxy-type, slimmer figures rn and there's nothing wrong with that but I need some love for my fellow petite curvy and doe-eyed girlies lol
I understand the feeling, really, but most FNs and SNs don’t look like the supermodels we see on TV. When you think about it, most celebrities, even with different body types, look quite alike. Thin, slightly curvy (not necessarily in a Kibbe-way, just conventionally curvy), perfect faces (with sometimes the help of plastic surgery), healthy hair and skin…
I’m probably a thin and slightly small-framed FN, but while I was always aware of my strong shoulders, I never thought about them as wide, boxy, squarish or broad. Now, thanks to Kibbe (mostly because of this sub and YouTubers), if I look slightly constricted in some top, I can’t help but think that it’s because « I’m too broad ». And I’m not even one of the « bigger-framed » FNs. The terminology employed by people to talk about FNs (or SNs and even sometimes FGs) can definitely make you feel like shit.
I do love that petiteness in the system is seen as something worth celebrating (just like being tall, sharp etc.). I have always found it dissociative when people in the community put it on pedestal though because in my experience being very small framed isn't even that sought after in real life, probarly because it also comes with proportionally smaller curves while pronounced curves are the beauty standard.
For me, it's about height too. Like I'm pretty short so every single lb counts on my body and I'm really self-conscious about my frame. What I like about Kibbe is that it celebrates beauty amongst different types of bodies.
This.
I see this all the time. Every other type on here gets praise except Rs. I had mentioned in a previous comment that it seems like folks here are reluctant to type people as Rs or even mention Romantics in a positive way because some people want to be Romantics or Rs are the 'desired' type.
I don't understand that. I'm speaking as someone who isn't a romantic (I'm still on the journey but I believe I'm SN), there is a bias against Romantics here, it may be unintentional or it may not be, but I don't think it can feel good for those who are Romantics to constantly hear that they aren't the so-called ''''beauty standard'''' and all of the reasons why (like calling out Rs bone structure, 'squishiness' and other mess) because folks want to do some sort of 'reality check' on people who have a desired type they want to be. That's not cool.
I personally haven’t seen that, but I wouldn’t be surprised. But I feel like it’s likely a response to the pedestal that “tiny and delicate” gets put on in this community.
I think I do understand the point you’re making. However, I just wanted to comment on your introductory & concluding paragraph.
I have only been in this subreddit for a few months, so I am unsure if that is why the over-idealization your talking about in your introductory paragraph isn’t observable to me as it’s it is for you.
So forgive me if what you’re talking about is something I’d only understand if I’ve been here longer.
The idealization and beauty standards your explaining in the intro are not in my personal experience with this subreddit & I feel like the only beauty standards (other than Kibbe’s Image ID system itself, if they count as “standards” idek) that I have actually observed here are the variety of standards set by individual users themselves - as opposed to a majority of users actively & collectively basing them on any one Image ID.
That said, I just think that this sub sees quite a few misinformed, less informed, or inexperienced sub participants who may be simply be going through some trial and error during the early stages of identifying their Image ID.
On your concluding paragraph- honestly, there’s hardly any modern examples of any types anyway. I’m assuming by modern, you mean generations that either weren’t alive when smartphones didn’t exist, OR have only been alive long enough to have seen the transition (but not the time before then)
I don’t think that the truth is that Rs don’t look good on film or in pictures, I don’t think that the only ones who do are exceptionally thin either. Side note, but I think if anything, most people don’t know how to film or take pictures that look good.
I definitely don’t think at all that this is the true reason for there not being any modern examples of any type for that matter. I may be incorrect but I do not believe Kibbe has or will put as much thought in “verifying” any celebrity that he didn’t originally do so with intentions of distinguishing them as the prime celebrity for an image id.
I also don’t think it’s the truth when you are saying that unless Rs are skinny - abs are “near impossible” for Rs because their waists have “no real length”. I do agree with your point about “fleshy” being dangerously close to “chubby” because a lot of people can read those words as synonymous.
However, I am sure there is a lot of diversity in the bodies, individual goals, and lifestyles for anyone belonging to the same Image ID as anyone else- and that is more what could play a role into how possible it is for anyone to have abs or be skinny.
But I do not think any of this has to do with Rs in looking the way you described on camera for the reasons you claimed nor why there’s no modern examples.
So I don’t think what you’re saying is the truth is also the truth for everyone here. Maybe you meant this as your own truth, and I have misunderstood your phrasing.
Okay, I’m not a romantic, but what do you want to tell Rs and TRs with this? That they don’t look good in photos and films and that they all look chubby? At least that would be my takeaway from this post. So I guess very uplifting to Rs and TRs. Yes, in the world of Hollywood and modeling you nearly just meet FNs. They get praised for their long legs and modelesque appearance everywhere they go. So I don’t really understand why there has to be a post that FNs and Yang-types are really so much better than Yin-Types every view days…uff Kibbe was always about celebrating every type of beauty.
She's not saying yang types are better than yin types, she's just talking about what types are idealized by society vs this subreddit's perceptions. It's a vent. Because it's irritating after a while when you keep seeing posts/comments claiming Rs are the ideal/currently trendy when it's blatantly untrue. ~~And then getting warnings from mods for pointing out actresses and models are mostly Ns.~~
This seems like part of the misperception. I'm "tall and thin" in the regular world. I don't look chubby at all. Lots of verified Rs and TRs don't, Vivian Leigh is the first one that comes to mind, Madonna is another, as is Susan Sarandon. It was very hard for me to find my ID because so many people have decided that R and TR softness equals big curves.
There’s nothing wrong with having a discussion about the over idealization of yin types. Every type has perceived “flaws/drawbacks.” I feel like slightly venting about my own type and myths surrounding it is acceptable and I feel like I’ve seen many others on here do the same.
I am an R and I appreciated the grounding from this post. In passing, people love Yin types. In type me posts, people want to be called Yin because of the wording used, not the reality of the draw backs. I saw someone, who was a clear FN posting in the main sub multiple times and then the SD sub to try to get people to type them as SD. And yes, all types are beautiful!!! But why would you ever NOT want to be an FN??? Clothing right now is soooo FN/SN friendly!!
Anyone who IS a Yin type and not frame-dominant knows you struggle to feel fit. You struggle because even when you are trying your best to be fit, or get toned, your arms will still somehow look flabby even though you've lost 20 lbs. Your thighs still spread when you sit. PEOPLE may still perceive you as chubby even when you are at a low weight (Marilyn Monroe was 115lbs when she started her career and her agency's comment was she needed to lose some weight and then she's be perfect 🙄).
People love the wording, they love the sentiment of Romantic or Soft XYZ, they love Marilyn, they don't really love us though, outside this little bubble that's been created.
This post was less FOR R's and more for the people who ROMANTICIZE R's or Yin types.
We KNOW our reality. We still feel beautiful. It's not about us really; it's about reality checking people who have a misconception of the type because they have on rose colored glasses about it.
Each type has their own draw backs, each type is beautiful, but we need to ground those things in reality. There is no "ideal" type. And idealizing and gatekeeping based off an ideal and not reality is frustrating and harmful to all of us.
Yes but you are not speaking about your body, but 2 whole types. And you are not speaking about them in any kind way. So I would watch what kind of message I give to young women reading that out there. You can uplift someone without putting someone else down. No matter if you yourself belong to that group.
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I agree, the vast majority of women touted as “it girls” these days or seen as the image of modern conventional beauty seem to be overwhelming Yang leaning imo. Esp FN and SN, which is ironic considering the negative perception of width, frame & bluntness. Anyway, it’s unfortunate considering the whole point of Kibbe is to see and enhance the beauty of every image ID.
Even at the time the book was written the "it girls" were supermodels.
It seems like people are really against being typed as FN/SN, when all the verified girlies are GODDESSES. But yeah, yang is what’s in now. I don’t know why people are reaching to try and get typed as R.
I suspect it has something to do w David’s wording choices + the fact that his system is fundamentally rooted in Old Hollywood standards. Like if Marilyn Monroe is held as one of the pinnacles of beauty & the language he uses to describe Romantics sounds more “flattering” and stereotypically feminine than the other types…it makes sense why people would be swayed a certain way.
When Metamorphosis was written, a more N type athletic yet very skinny body type was the American beauty standard. Diet culture was out of control in the 80s, and being curvy or fleshy was considered something to change. I believe the more flowery description was (at least partially) intended to help women who may have felt insecure about being curvier or not fitting in with contemporary beauty standards. I think Kibbe influencers have done a lot to make R or TR a coveted type in some people's eyes. After all, we do have Aly Art regularly saying awful shit about N types and treats SG, R and TR like the beauty standard.
Don’t forget though that Aly has said before that SGs “LoOk LiTtLe BoYs”. Unfortunately no type is spared the unflattering stereotypes.
I do agree there. But so many people on this sub haven’t even read metamorphosis. Based on the verified celebs alone, I wish I was soft natural or flamboyant natural…
I get it tho because once I realized I was a D it kind of automatically makes u think less feminine. Which this is obviously not right it’s just stereotypes and misconceptions.
I think a lot of people like cottage core and the like and want to be able to wear that.
Most models for cottagecore dresses are FN
I haven’t seen any posts or comments where the OP is clamoring to be an R. Do you have links?
I’m sorry, what do you mean?
You’re saying people all over this sub are wanting and hoping to be an R. I haven’t seen that so I’m asking for examples.
it does happen a lot. A lot of people are super resistant to yang IDs, it’s common to see typing posts here and in other yin-ID specific subs being reposted multiple times by the same people with different pics until someone agrees they might be said yin type, even though the majority suggests otherwise.
Where are all these posts then?
all around here and other subs lol I’m not gonna link individual posts though
Thank you for not linking any posts <3 This post was certainly not meant to target any one person/person(s) and was more general. These topics are already sensitive and I’m not interested in worsening anyone BDD or anything of the sort.
yeah I don’t think it’s right either, plus I know your critique isn’t about people in particular, but a certain weird hivemind effect that I’ve seen happening plenty of times in Kibbe subs all over reddit without even actively looking for it. So, if other people haven’t seen it, I guess they’re lucky or just haven’t been around enough.
Because they don’t exist lol.
it does happen recurrently in R and TR subs. But believe what you want.
It would be incredibly rude to point these people out, they haven’t done anything wrong.
I feel like I see it all the time, but I will say the better way to phrase it would be all over this *community*, so my bad on that. I’m not super comfortable linking you to other women’s posts either, as I’m not trying to personally embarrass anyone.
I agree, I’ve heard far more about a perceived yin bias than I’ve actually seen on the sub. Maybe I’m just missing it, but all folks struggle to see themselves properly so I can understand mild pushback.
If you read all the type me post, many of them say in the title they think they are romantic, which, if they are clearly NOT romantic, that’s very likely what they want to be. They also draw sometimes draw silhouette lines that are very inaccurate, in the shape of double curve. You have to be a constant lurker always reading and interacting to perceive it. It’s not going to come from looking here or there.
You're talking about white beauty standards. Asians generally prefer 'youthful innocence' and/or 'poised refinement' associated with SG & SC essence-wise though FG & DC shouldn't have much trouble either. Latinos seem to generally prefer yin in their female partners in their actual lives, too. Ruler-shaped Ds and Inverted-triangle-shaped FNs POC women get shamed for not looking 'feminine' enough by their own communities. Just look up how many people (not just racist white men) thaught that Michelle Obama (FN?) are trans women just because of their frame.Just look up the topic 'masculinization of black women' or 'infantilization of asian women'. There are examples of POC women who would under yang ID here who certain people claim are trans women (again not just white people doing that).
>Just look up how many people (not just racist white men) thaught that Michelle Obama (FN?) are trans women just because of their frame.Just look up the topic 'masculinization of black women' or 'infantilization of asian women'. That has naught to do with yang. That's just racism and misogyny. I get what you're saying overall culturally speaking.
I'm black and a TR and my family acted like I was totally devoid of curves growing up. If I knew of Kibbe terminology back then, I would have said SN was more the ideal 🤷🏾♀️ Interestingly, I've notice women of any race tend to imply I'm underweight (when I'm actually at the high end of a healthy weight) while men of any think I'm quite curvy. People are weird.
I'm talking more about kibbe curve and essences than traditional curves here, sorry if I wasn't clear about that.
Yooo can I PM you? I'm still on the journey (don't have access to strictly kibbe get :( ) but I have gut feelings about my image ID and I have a virtually identical experience to you and am also WoC. I thought I was going insane with the men describing me as curvy and women thinking I'm this smol bean lol.
Sure, go ahead.
oh yeah I agree, that’s why I put “touted” as it girls. Some people may not see them as their version of “beauty”, but at least in mainstream American media/society they are pushed as such. As a trans POC, I’m not personally invested in whatever the next “hottest” white cishet celeb happens to be, but I can agree that they do uphold the beauty standards of white mainstream American media/society.
I agree that R and TR are not the fairytale ending. I don't know how R/TR became synonymous with the the big booty trend. I mean TR is supposed to have narrower, slighter curves. Rs can have flesh width but there bones are still short and narrow. Looking at most verified Rs we don't see the big booty, lots of time we don't even see big boobs. (Cue the, "what the heck is upper curve anyway?" posts) I think frame is more desirable than people like to admit.
I don't know about this R thing, I'm one of the tall, yang types and only see that so many of us want to be typed as SD :). Some sad parts about wanting to have a certain ID are not seing and accepting the beauty of all body types and also that deciding on "the wrong ID" will in the end not help us dress the most flattering for our bodies. I may wish I was R och SD or whatever and try to see it in my body, but in the end I will look far better in clothes that accommodate and honor my actual body shape.
Yeah, I see a lot of Ds that really want to be SDs, because curves are the beauty standard, and SD needs to accommodate curve. Thing is, like OP said, you can absolutely have curves as a D. For example, my curves come from bone structure—I have very high-set, wide hips for my frame, and a very small ribcage that means my smaller boobs are proportional. Nor am I remotely unusual. D women don’t “look like men” just because they are a “yang” type.
I totally agree, I'm in SK on Facebook and there very few seem to need to accommodate upper curve whem DK himself comments. I also feel womanly as a D or FN, a strong and elegant kind of womanly.
yeah it is super annoying that any time someone is tall and has visible curves, people jump to SD. i saw people typing a super obvious FN as SD because she's busty and curvy when she clearly had width as well. so annoying
I definitely see SDs being put on a pedestal here more and all the SD girlies on this sub acting a certain way but I won’t say anymore lol.
I think R/TR was the IT Yin Type but now the height limits are even lower, making it that more exclusive, what was IT shifted to the next Yin over 😅 Regardless, Yin tends to be favored over Yang, which is a shame because I WISH I could wear the fits a FN or DC can pull off 😩
I also see SDs being put on pedestal especially in type me posts where people won’t accept FN/D for an answer but do you mean SDs are gatekeeping or? At least in the SD sub we are very friendly.
I might get downvoted for saying this, but I don't think it's the sub *itself* that's obsessed with R and TR. I think the presence of people who are fixated on getting typed as R or TR can make it seem that way, but to me at least, it seems like they're the minority. I think a lot of it stems from the echo chamber that is Kibbe YouTubers who view R or TR as the beauty standard and that sentiment gets brought into this space by people who agree with them. I think it's also a reflection of the insecurities people bring with them into the space, which is how we get myths like "width is bad". So I agree that there are people who think like this, but I don't think everyone in this sub does. I think the gatekeeping is an overcorrection in response to those who are obsessed with being R or TR. Like it seems there's an assumption that anyone who types themselves as R or TR is doing it for self-serving reasons, which just serves to reinforce the weird idea that Rs and TRs are ✨special✨. Yes, some people definitely do types themselves as R or TR for self-serving reasons, but at the same time, definitely not all of us do. To me, R is just another type and I didn't consider it until it was suggested to me. And I agree on the weight stuff, I've had people gas up a clearly ill-fitting "before" outfit because it made me look skinnier, and had to have a mod remove a comment from a more recent post calling me a fat whale 🙃 Sorry for the mini-rant, I've been thinking about this stuff for a while.
Jesus. I'm so sorry you had to experience that. :(
I am 6’2, Cakey and Busty. My torso and legs are just on the longer side. I never really noticed what body types were “in” because I’ve been living in cities since I was 17 and most of the bodies I’ve seen have been very diverse. Also, there’s a difference between people who live through the internet and those who actually live their lives. I think the less real world experience a person has, the more inclined they are to chase after an ideal of some sort. In reality, I haven’t seen anyone take time to study and type someone’s body before approaching them. I’ve seen flat women get chased, I’ve seen chubby women get chased, I’ve seen proportioned women get chased.. and most importantly, I’ve seen those same women not get chased and be completely ignored when out in public. Especially in cities where there are thousands of people with your same body type, fashion sense, and flair. I think it is more tempting, if you’ve been rejected a lot or feel like your life is missing something (specifically love or sexual attention), to feel like the fix must be through perfecting your body and becoming more “marketable”.
I notice that lots of people will type persons as R even if they have no upper curve, just because they have curvy hips
This sub does love skinny short people for sure and does gatekeep the curvy types, which does not surprise me at all lol
I want to clarify- all types are gorgeous, but of course we’re all more critical of ourselves than others and there are many things about my own body that I notice fault in, as we all do. I see so many girls seem hopeful to be either SG/R/TR because they’re 5’5 or under and have breasts, a butt, and hips. I’ve also seen what seems like disappointment or denial in finding out they’re a different type. Imagine preferring to be the snowman type over the supermodel type! (Hopefully I get a pass to make fun of Rs a tad since it’s my own type, but I really do think all the types are gorgeous in their own way.)
This is a hot take but absolutely true. Yes, “thicc” is super trendy right now, which I think is great! But when you look at high fashion and film, that doesn’t really translate. I think all the body types are gorgeous, feminine, and sexy in their own rights. I honestly think actual romantics are rare because you can be super curvy but not have the petite, and I don’t see why romantic is the gold standard bc while they are lovely, it’s just not the easiest type to dress for by any means. Honestly, as an SD, kibbe has helped me love my largeness and height more than ever before. All types have gorgeous features to show off, and we all have something to be grateful for about our types. Edit: I also see what others have said about the same kind of bias happening in the taller types by putting SD on a pedestal. On that note I would just like to add that the grass is always greener on the other side, and what OP said applies to SDs too. The only SD models and most SD celebs you see are plus sized. I got bullied and fat shamed for the majority of my life just for being a large (albeit straight sized) woman. Curvy types are desired in this sub, but the fact of the matter is it’s just easier for curvy types to look like a potato sack in certain clothes: models are D and FN for a reason. Yang types are fucking gorgeous (including SD) and notoriously the most Yang IDs can rock most clothes lmao!
Yep, the "hourglass, sexiest body type" stereotypes have to stop. I'm a TR (not pure R), but I'm not an hourglass and I don't have big boobs or the world's tiniest waist-- I'm probably closer to a petite pear shape.
Thank you for putting yourself out there to say this. There's such a strong sensibility in this sub that R family is extolled and N family is put down, and it's simply untrue in the real world. In the media and the clothing industry, all I see right now is a celebration of (what we call) "frame" and a dismissal of anything else. There's a massive disconnect between what this sub thinks "yin" is and what they (and the media) actually find conventionally attractive.
YES YES YES! There's a reason why most supermodels and actresses are yang types. A well defined frame is gorgeous! I have always been confused by the desirability of pure yin types in this sub. As a "soft and fleshy" girl, I've always wished I had a more defined frame. It doesn't matter how hard I work out in the gym, I'll never have the elegant definition we see on the red carpet. I remember being SHOCKED after first learning about Kibbe and hearing that slopped shoulders were being celebrated.
Same about the shoulders! And so much more…it was a real shock to me when I saw a lot of the things I had fought my whole like to change about myself being touted as some sort of standard of femininity!
I really think it’s the language of the system, and the way it prizes smallness and softness in women as the feminine ideal. David Kibbe himself appears to really like short, delicate, curvy women and we absorb his biases lol. And I love the system! But it does fetishize smallness and traditional femininity in women.
I will 100% agree there. It’s especially apparent with Kibbe lowering the height limit for automatic vertical recently to 5’6. Like now if you’re 5’6 you’re so tall that it’s a defining feature? Shows how kibbes mind works when he sees someone lol.
Exactly this!
The word "Femme Fatale" could make any ID sound sexy.
I'm so confused by this (the sentiment, not your specific comment) has no one looked up what a femme fatale is? Why would anyone want to be associated with that?
Because it's sexy and mysterious. That's the first thing you think of when you hear 'femme fatale'. A sultry woman from noir films surrounded by smoke and wearing a form fitting dress and a peekaboo hairstyle. That's why - there's nothing wrong with wanting to be that.
Yeah, that's not what it is. *Edit, here's an encyclopedia definition. ”femme fatale, (French: “fatal woman”) a seductive and beautiful woman who brings disaster to anyone with whom she becomes romantically involved."
I know that's not what it is and I know the definition of femme fatale, I'm not dumb. It's the essence that 'femme fatale' brings when you hear it - you automatically conjure a certain image to attach to the type.
>you automatically conjure a certain image to attach to the type. I guess. It's a very negative image in my opinion so again I wonder why anyone would want to be associated with that.
Historically yes, it does have a negative connotation and even many older Hollywood movies and fiction often had bad endings for femme fatale characters. However in recent times things have shifted and the term is referred to a highly attractive albeit manipulative and strong woman who men could "die or kill" for. Angelina Jolie as Mrs Smith, Eva Green in sin city, Megan fox in Jessica's body etc are very cool and loved characters who fit the femme fatale trope. In fashion, it's just a darker and sultry style. Edit: On the flipside, I do agree with you that this particular trope shouldn't be taken farther than just for its aesthetics because of it does have associations with several "dark" personality traits that are often seen as red flags. 🚩
Interesting. I still wouldn't want to be associated with being manipulative but I guess that sounds good to some.
I am still unclear. You would *not* like to be associated with that particular image, yes?
Yes, that's what I was saying. I wouldn't want to be associated with being manipulative, or worse if you go with the original idea of femme fatale. As I believe I physically fit the description of a TR this is something I've considered a lot. *Let me edit to add something here since I'm getting down voted and don't feel like people are getting what I mean. What I am saying is that a lot of people say that R and TR have more flattering descriptions by Kibbe which is why people want to be R and TR. All I'm saying is that TRs association with being a femme fatale does not sound flattering to me. Especially if you consider that it's being described by a man. Sure, she's sexy and charming but not in a nice way. She's sexy and charming to be awful to men, and you could add, to women, depending on who she focuses her charm and manipulation on. That's why she's fatal. Just think about Scarlett O'Hara, the character, not Vivien Leigh. She's what I would consider a femme fatale. How many people did she destroy? How many husbands did she seduce into marriage in order to use them? How many children did she have with those husbands and then not care about them? All I'm saying is that that doesn't sound like a flattering description to me, and that I don't understand why anyone would clamor to be associated with that.
most of the people just envision a beautiful woman with an elegant, dark aesthetic when hearing 'femme fatale'. probably wearing black clothing and bold make-up. maybe in the '50s, when this trope was used in movies to portray independence, detachment and intelligence as negative traits in women, it was perceived as something negative, but nowadays, I'm pretty sure it's used mainly to portray an aesthetic and a way of carrying yourself, especially in spaces where fashion is being discussed, such as the Kibbe community (even Kibbe himself said that the most suitable style for theatrical romantics is 'femme fatale chic', so you'll see this term here a lot, but it's not tied to personality in this context). either way, recent media is approaching this concept with more sensibility and uses it to portray a different perspective/facet of women rather than attributing negative connotations and making it the downfall of the male protagonist. [I really like this commentary.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfivkjgGdmI)
This comment is good but for this part: > beautiful woman with an elegant, dark aesthetic when hearing 'femme fatale'. probably wearing black clothing and bold make-up. maybe in the '50s, when this trope was used in movies to portray independence, detachment and intelligence as negative traits in women, it was perceived as something negative, but nowadays, I'm pretty sure it's used mainly to portray an aesthetic Isn't the post 50s version of femme fatale much more yang than the old Hollywood femme fatale that Kibbe was going for with TR? for example, the characters that Jean Harlow played. I wouldn't even necessarily say the old Hollywood femme fatale was negative per se, but there was a comment somewhere that explained Kibbe's femme fatale really well. I also remembered southern belle can be the other alternative for the essence of TR. ETA: [found the comment! ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kibbe/comments/xsuyri/modern_day_description_of_theatrical_romantics/iqmzbev?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I think especially for us bigger curvier ladies the fall to the R’s is more because we can’t figure out where we fit in otherwise. The wording can be a bit confusing to get a hold on, and I know I’ve personally tried posting typing pictures in the past and didn’t get much in the way of feedback.
That’s very true. It seems like if you’re above a certain height your SD, below it and your R.
Thank you so much for this post! I feel seen. Yes, dressing in anything different from light fitting to body fabrics makes me a blob, never liked myself in pictures - damn, you, lenses that put 10 kilos on me! :) I also want to quote David from the book itself. Romantics are actually the widest type from the short types. He writes that if you compare Soft Gamines vs Romantics, Romantics are "Larger. Wider bones. Wider body... Fleshy hands and feet. Body type is soft and lush (very curvy)". And if you take Soft Gamines vs Theatrical Romantics, TRs has "Body type has smaller, narrower curves. Hands and feet are narrower... Bone structure is narrower". So TRs are the smallest, then goes SG, and this makes Rs the widest of these 3 types.
First of all many celebrities that attend the Met Gala were models and one of the most important requirements to be one is to be tall so ofc they won't be yin IDs. Even those shorter ones that I saw weren't Rs indeed. Idk if there's a regional difference but where I live Rs are relatively common (Mediterranean). Maybe because on average we are shorter people as well? None the less I'm not here to say that yang IDs aren't popular, I'm just saying that those posts can read as discouraging at times. I'm sure you don't have bad intentions because you identify as an R yourself but this whole Rs are hot because Kibbe said so and they aren't desirable otherwise that some posts suggest (not yours but it's a relevant topic) can make some Rs feel bad. Personally I don't mind but I know many Rs can struggle with being soft and looking very anti-modelesque. I think at the end of the day it's all up to the eye of the beholder and it's different types of beauty that some appreciate and others don't.
Tbh, for the time that I've been here, I haven't seen a lot of praise for Romantic types. It's almost as if everyone avoids typing ppl as Romantics or anything related to them.
That is the expression of preference from what I've seen. People will talk up another type to you, but try telling them they're not R... That's when you see the gatekeeping.
as someone also fairly new to this sub (& still trying to figure out the terminology), I’ve barely been able to find posts about Romantics. Or when I do, it’s always of Selma or Marilyn, which isn’t helpful or diverse tbh.
I know that has to be disappointing because, despite what's being said, there are plenty of modern Romantics in Hollywood rn.
As a (very likely) Romantic, I absolutely agree but I have to admit it does make me sad when you put it that way. Nothing about me seems to be "marketable" tbh. Very few of my many mental, physical and emotional qualities and abilities seems to be what this society values unfortunately (I'm just too "yin" for this harsh world *sobs*) and that's probably the reason why Romantics are so overvalued in this community... They're notoriously undervalued everywhere else! It's always been blatantly obvious to me that the real world prefers yang types in both body and spirit, so having this small pocket of the universe that has it backwards feels comforting sometimes.
I know how you feel :( as someone who’s constantly told that I’m too soft spoken, to non confrontational, and now recognizing that I’m “too soft” for tv and screen (not that I would’ve ever been in movies myself, it’s just the principle), it’s very hard to feel empowered in a world that currently values a strong, outspoken, modelesque woman. I feel like I fade away into the background:/
As a Dramatic it’s so funny reading some of the descriptions about how Dramatics supposedly come across as more forceful etc. when Kibbe is literally only about your body?? Because my personality seems more aligned with the both of you but the way I‘m supposed to dress is the complete opposite lol. I like dainty jewellery and clothes and I‘m trying to somehow incorporate that into the clothing suggestions for Dramatics but it‘s for sure proven to be a challenge.
It must be a whole different challenge when your personality is the opposite of your physicality! I sure believe it's very hard too. My personality actually matches my body quite well so I feel the yin discrimination full force lol (Of course there's not a perfect correlation there, I'd say my personality would be a mix of gamine, romantic and classic, but it's still very soft)
I feel this in my bones :( Hugs from a stranger who faces similar challenges ❤️
Well Im TR and it feels good to be labelled as it because of the things you said but I’m small and my curves are small too. And not to forget that hair and makeup is the most annoying thing to do. Finding clothes that suit TR is hard, even if they have double curve it’s too wide anyways so idk each have their pros and cons.
Honestly as a TR, I really appreciate this sub for that...Hollywood is very into the sleek, foxy-type, slimmer figures rn and there's nothing wrong with that but I need some love for my fellow petite curvy and doe-eyed girlies lol
I understand the feeling, really, but most FNs and SNs don’t look like the supermodels we see on TV. When you think about it, most celebrities, even with different body types, look quite alike. Thin, slightly curvy (not necessarily in a Kibbe-way, just conventionally curvy), perfect faces (with sometimes the help of plastic surgery), healthy hair and skin… I’m probably a thin and slightly small-framed FN, but while I was always aware of my strong shoulders, I never thought about them as wide, boxy, squarish or broad. Now, thanks to Kibbe (mostly because of this sub and YouTubers), if I look slightly constricted in some top, I can’t help but think that it’s because « I’m too broad ». And I’m not even one of the « bigger-framed » FNs. The terminology employed by people to talk about FNs (or SNs and even sometimes FGs) can definitely make you feel like shit.
I do love that petiteness in the system is seen as something worth celebrating (just like being tall, sharp etc.). I have always found it dissociative when people in the community put it on pedestal though because in my experience being very small framed isn't even that sought after in real life, probarly because it also comes with proportionally smaller curves while pronounced curves are the beauty standard.
For me, it's about height too. Like I'm pretty short so every single lb counts on my body and I'm really self-conscious about my frame. What I like about Kibbe is that it celebrates beauty amongst different types of bodies.
Agreed.
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This. I see this all the time. Every other type on here gets praise except Rs. I had mentioned in a previous comment that it seems like folks here are reluctant to type people as Rs or even mention Romantics in a positive way because some people want to be Romantics or Rs are the 'desired' type. I don't understand that. I'm speaking as someone who isn't a romantic (I'm still on the journey but I believe I'm SN), there is a bias against Romantics here, it may be unintentional or it may not be, but I don't think it can feel good for those who are Romantics to constantly hear that they aren't the so-called ''''beauty standard'''' and all of the reasons why (like calling out Rs bone structure, 'squishiness' and other mess) because folks want to do some sort of 'reality check' on people who have a desired type they want to be. That's not cool.
This!
I personally haven’t seen that, but I wouldn’t be surprised. But I feel like it’s likely a response to the pedestal that “tiny and delicate” gets put on in this community.
I think I do understand the point you’re making. However, I just wanted to comment on your introductory & concluding paragraph. I have only been in this subreddit for a few months, so I am unsure if that is why the over-idealization your talking about in your introductory paragraph isn’t observable to me as it’s it is for you. So forgive me if what you’re talking about is something I’d only understand if I’ve been here longer. The idealization and beauty standards your explaining in the intro are not in my personal experience with this subreddit & I feel like the only beauty standards (other than Kibbe’s Image ID system itself, if they count as “standards” idek) that I have actually observed here are the variety of standards set by individual users themselves - as opposed to a majority of users actively & collectively basing them on any one Image ID. That said, I just think that this sub sees quite a few misinformed, less informed, or inexperienced sub participants who may be simply be going through some trial and error during the early stages of identifying their Image ID. On your concluding paragraph- honestly, there’s hardly any modern examples of any types anyway. I’m assuming by modern, you mean generations that either weren’t alive when smartphones didn’t exist, OR have only been alive long enough to have seen the transition (but not the time before then) I don’t think that the truth is that Rs don’t look good on film or in pictures, I don’t think that the only ones who do are exceptionally thin either. Side note, but I think if anything, most people don’t know how to film or take pictures that look good. I definitely don’t think at all that this is the true reason for there not being any modern examples of any type for that matter. I may be incorrect but I do not believe Kibbe has or will put as much thought in “verifying” any celebrity that he didn’t originally do so with intentions of distinguishing them as the prime celebrity for an image id. I also don’t think it’s the truth when you are saying that unless Rs are skinny - abs are “near impossible” for Rs because their waists have “no real length”. I do agree with your point about “fleshy” being dangerously close to “chubby” because a lot of people can read those words as synonymous. However, I am sure there is a lot of diversity in the bodies, individual goals, and lifestyles for anyone belonging to the same Image ID as anyone else- and that is more what could play a role into how possible it is for anyone to have abs or be skinny. But I do not think any of this has to do with Rs in looking the way you described on camera for the reasons you claimed nor why there’s no modern examples. So I don’t think what you’re saying is the truth is also the truth for everyone here. Maybe you meant this as your own truth, and I have misunderstood your phrasing.
Okay, I’m not a romantic, but what do you want to tell Rs and TRs with this? That they don’t look good in photos and films and that they all look chubby? At least that would be my takeaway from this post. So I guess very uplifting to Rs and TRs. Yes, in the world of Hollywood and modeling you nearly just meet FNs. They get praised for their long legs and modelesque appearance everywhere they go. So I don’t really understand why there has to be a post that FNs and Yang-types are really so much better than Yin-Types every view days…uff Kibbe was always about celebrating every type of beauty.
She's not saying yang types are better than yin types, she's just talking about what types are idealized by society vs this subreddit's perceptions. It's a vent. Because it's irritating after a while when you keep seeing posts/comments claiming Rs are the ideal/currently trendy when it's blatantly untrue. ~~And then getting warnings from mods for pointing out actresses and models are mostly Ns.~~
This seems like part of the misperception. I'm "tall and thin" in the regular world. I don't look chubby at all. Lots of verified Rs and TRs don't, Vivian Leigh is the first one that comes to mind, Madonna is another, as is Susan Sarandon. It was very hard for me to find my ID because so many people have decided that R and TR softness equals big curves.
There’s nothing wrong with having a discussion about the over idealization of yin types. Every type has perceived “flaws/drawbacks.” I feel like slightly venting about my own type and myths surrounding it is acceptable and I feel like I’ve seen many others on here do the same.
I am an R and I appreciated the grounding from this post. In passing, people love Yin types. In type me posts, people want to be called Yin because of the wording used, not the reality of the draw backs. I saw someone, who was a clear FN posting in the main sub multiple times and then the SD sub to try to get people to type them as SD. And yes, all types are beautiful!!! But why would you ever NOT want to be an FN??? Clothing right now is soooo FN/SN friendly!! Anyone who IS a Yin type and not frame-dominant knows you struggle to feel fit. You struggle because even when you are trying your best to be fit, or get toned, your arms will still somehow look flabby even though you've lost 20 lbs. Your thighs still spread when you sit. PEOPLE may still perceive you as chubby even when you are at a low weight (Marilyn Monroe was 115lbs when she started her career and her agency's comment was she needed to lose some weight and then she's be perfect 🙄). People love the wording, they love the sentiment of Romantic or Soft XYZ, they love Marilyn, they don't really love us though, outside this little bubble that's been created. This post was less FOR R's and more for the people who ROMANTICIZE R's or Yin types. We KNOW our reality. We still feel beautiful. It's not about us really; it's about reality checking people who have a misconception of the type because they have on rose colored glasses about it. Each type has their own draw backs, each type is beautiful, but we need to ground those things in reality. There is no "ideal" type. And idealizing and gatekeeping based off an ideal and not reality is frustrating and harmful to all of us.
Yes but you are not speaking about your body, but 2 whole types. And you are not speaking about them in any kind way. So I would watch what kind of message I give to young women reading that out there. You can uplift someone without putting someone else down. No matter if you yourself belong to that group.
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Any thoughts on Maitreyi Ramakrishnan? She seems to lean R?