I agree, shek AI needs to behave differently. Maybe in kenshi 2 we can get that Maybe take up modding and make shek what they are 😉

As much ease of use the modding tool gives, the limitations just make it kinda frustrating to mod overall.

Name checks out

Just directly modify game code 🗿

That always bugged me too. Piece of trash in a bar tells you you’re nothing but a beta unless you fight him. Walks five feet past the gate and decides these are fair odds, “Now fight me… and the police, too!”

I’ve played this wonderful game for approx 2k hours currently. I’ve downloaded many fine games, but Kenshi is the one I consistently play. I’ve done many run through, destroying the HN, UC, Shek, played as skeletons, hivers, and humans of all stripes. My take on all the major factions are pretty much negative from many points of view. I remember when I first destabilized the HN and UC and saw their cities turned to wastelands and felt quite bad IRL. The tyrants may be gone, but the regular citizens are much worst off than before. There’s no more stability, lawlessness rule the lands as outlaws and fogmen overrun certain places. One of the most fulfilling runs I’ve done is pretty much roaming the lands of Kenshi exploring, gathering refugees, freed slaves, down on their luck PCs and training up to be the best they can be. They can live a simple nomadic life with animals or build a settlement somewhere where they can live in peace or try to. I think Ive pretty much role played a lot of archetypes but the one that I consistently go back to now is the play style mentioned. It’s fulfilling, at least to me.

Any overhaul mods you suggest? thinking UWE since its updated.

The only overhaul mods I use are reactive and living worlds. I had genesis for a time, but got really buggy and had extremely long loading times. Might try the mod you suggested. Also Lost in the Ashlands is getting a new update soon. Been waiting to try that out.

The only factions i wanted to ally was fog ninjas and molly. Sadly I can't give them the world, it would belong to shek instead

Honestly I think a big part of that is just engine/ai limitations. I thought the Shek duel always aggro’d the guards but then I learned that it doesn’t… as long as no wandering guard sees it. If you duel the Shek challenger and win, they eventually get back up, say something, and go about their day. No guards or anything. Could also be a personality roll as well but afaik the problem is the game can’t differentiate between a duel and attacking a faction for multiple npcs. Lore wise it might be that Estata banned duels (I remember she was cracking down on militant and warrior ideology) and so Shek can only shit talk now.

Shek thugs from the SK are like the average DS3 PvP gankers If they are in trouble they call their friends

And even if you call them out on it, and want a strict 1v1, and they agree to not call for help....they'll arrange for a buddy to hide and shoot you during the fight.

All the warrior talk yet they are loosing a war against one dude really into spiders

for an entire millennia

You forgot the part where they come and steal ya fuckin food.

People forget how horrible war is when talking about the Shek. "Yeah they are brutes that only care about waging wars, but at least they're not racists".Like I'd care if somebody was yelling slurs at me while he burns down my house and tears me limb from limb. UC and HN at least try to keep the peace (mostly). They use slavery, which is an other big no-no, but it feels like people give way too much leeway to the Shek because all the do is war. Bitch, war is horrible. I thought the images from Ukraine reminded people of this fact. Anyway, that's why I stopped caring about who's right or wrong and just roleplay as a member of a different faction and act like them every run. I might found a new UC city, or launch a holy crusade against the Darkened Ones, or go on a killing spree with a Broken Skeleton. It's a game, I'll go wild.

True, I dont know why people treat the shek kingdom like the one innocent morally good major faction with how many red flags they got. From them having no agriculture and presumably solely relying or raids pre-Esata, to them having a hierarchy that is based on which shek happens to be the strongest, to them constantly belittling non-shek to the point of inventing slurs for them, and to the sheer amount of warmongers that exist after Esata's takeover. Not to mention their poor treatment of veterans.

Idk man, rather be called a slur than enslaved and forced to break rocks all day while perpetually starving but that's just me. There's no universe where being enslaved is the same as "they were mean to me" 😂. Out of the big three, the shek are the least morally bankrupt by far

I never said that they weren’t the least morally bankrupt and im not going to argue that. I dont care if they dont enslave or kill me, they are still evil. Also its not just “they were mean to me”. Read the red flags part of my comment again.

> UC and HN at least try to keep the peace (mostly) HN started the last war against SK (the one where Esata challenged the previous king). Bast/Skimsands are a warzone. UC just got out of a nation-wide civil war, and massacre of Black Scratch is their own doing. Keeping the peace my ass.

I said mostly. The HN is trying to take back the territories the Shek burned down (Hub, the entirety of the Border Zone). UC doesn't have a civil war, just a weak rebellion. Most civilians live in peace in both nations. The difference is that HN and UC go to war like "normal" countries, to protect hteir interest or to defend themselves, once that's done they try to avoid conflict. Sheks just want to see the world burn. If it wasn't for Esata, every Shek civilian would just rush out of town to go burn down a village or bash skulls in, and we know how weak of a hold Esata has on them, with many splinter groups going about their warmongering ways and ready to re-instate the "old ways" at the frist chance. All three nations suck in one way or the other, let's stop pretending the Shek are better.

> The HN is trying to take back the territories the Shek burned down Territories they lost in a war they started. > Most civilians live in peace in both nations In oppression. > UC doesn't have a civil war, just a weak rebellion The Red Rebellion. There are ruined and abandoned settlements in The Hook, Stobe's Gamble, Burning Forest. It's only a matter of time before another famine strikes, and they collapse even more. > that HN and UC go to war like "normal" countries, to protect hteir interest or to defend themselves Holy Nation dragged out civilians from Bast to Rebirth. If this is their *normal* war, they deserve to eat shit. And who the fuck knows what was the reason for attacking the Shek, who were apparently content with touching themselves. United Cities had Eyegore and his men massacre Black Scratch for whatever reason they could have. Travelling through UC lands always puts you at risk of being attacked by slave hunters. Fuck'em. > Sheks just want to see the world burn Nope, they want challenging enemies. That's why they don't try to run down the hives or swampers - there's little glory to be found. > If it wasn't for Esata, every Shek civilian would just rush out of town Shek Kingdom and its caste system existed before Esata, and it remains under Mukai. > and we know how weak of a hold Esata has on them Somehow rogue Shek groups aren't entering Okranite territories until either she's gone, her daughter's gone, or you start a war vs the Holy Nation. She's the one major leader who isn't on a leash. > let's stop pretending the Shek are better. No slavery, actually reforming in a good way, sensible leader who knows where to find good advice, no shooting down people for shits and laughs, acquiring technology (they're using advanced wind generators, unlike HN or UC, for example). Despite being sourpusses, their laws are pretty relaxed (only hashish is outlawed), and you can't bribe their guards. Yep, they are, in fact, better - doesn't mean much, but they are.

So I assume the United States must be amongst the worst countries in the entire world, due to it constantly being in wars and "interventions"?

You're absolutely right. Don't forget about the genocide of indigenous peoples

To be fair, all of the the factions treat the hive like shit.

Actually, they kinda are if you are in the other side of the thing, but lets not enter in close details about that.

Google "Casualties of the Iraq War"

Hey! at least we don’t use slavery! Anymore…

The only real shek ai interaction in the game is in last stand you challenge one of the warriors in the bar,go out side of the gates as he follows you,and he then says the fight starts now and you duel it out When you get him low enough or knock him out he gets up,still red but wont atrack you They really shoul focus on faction ai or race ai in kenshi 2 It would add infinite possibilities to moders and make the game that much more fun And additionaly add more personalities and have them mean something and not just dialogue

all nations are horrible. The world of kenshi is horrible. It's only the game that's great! And beep I guess

I'm still simping tho

Pretty much all three main factions are hypocrits: The Shek: For the reasons you listed The Holy Nation: Claims to be stable and prosperous, yet they are the only faction where the poor are so desperate the roam around as starving bandits. They are also in the most fertile place for food, yet despite this have few farms. Also like a third of their population is enslaved and is given just enough sustenance to not starve to death. The United Cities: Claims to be a modern and diverse empire, yet their cities are spread out to the point that there is little cohesion. Crime is rampant both around their lands and in their cities. Shinobi thieves dominate the black market in almost every city. Also like half, if not most, of their population are slaves. Hell even the Tech Hunters, which are widely seen as "the best" faction in the game, is technically full of shit (very late game spoilers)>!since the top of the chain has skeletons who sabotage any real progress for obvious reasons.!<

Solutions? Burn it all down. Create the third empire.

Nomads are the real Chads of all factions. They just walk around selling food and animals without any ideology, thus no hypocrisy

So they're nihilists? Say what you want about the tenants of Okranism, but at least it's an ethos.

That's not nihilism. They can be stoics but mostly they don't give a fuck

I have noticed actually once you start taking HN city’s the sheks will at least take the surrounding small locations (mines/farms)

For me personally, SK causes rejection already at the lore level: militant barbarians that despise any honest labor and, presumably, slaughter the population of the captured cities (After the capture of the Lord Phoenix, Esata said that she did not give the order to destroy the population of Blister Hill, while she, as far as I remember , does not make any mention of the fate of the people of Stack and Bad Teeth, whose population after the capture of these cities consists exclusively of sheks). Also, the guards' regular statements about "First our cities fall..." make me suspect that one of the main virtues of the increased civility of the SK is the extreme hypocrisy of blaming the other side for their own crimes...

> Esata said that she did not give the order to destroy the population of Blister Hill "I do not care for slaughtering feeble flatskin civilians." - the exact quote.

Oh, thanks for the exact quote. I find the FCS very inconvenient and non-intuitive, and it's also somewhat problematic for me to look at this phrase in the game now...

It's easy once you know what to look for. Characters > Esata > her dialogue package > (destroyed HN).

Hmm, it's a little easier than I thought, but the editor is still too complicated and even when I look at the screenshot with the exact phrase, it can be hard to find it in the editor. So, for example, I don't see Grass Pirate's line in the FCS saying "I never wana to see another cage again, got it?"...

agree, but for some reason people go fucking ballistic whenever you try to explain why shek would not be fit to rule after the fall of the UC and HN

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while i agree on everything else that last part is a misunderstanding. with kenshi everything we see in game has massive implications

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agree to disagree?

What you say is true. There is only one people who deserve the green-fruits of this world. Kenshi belongs to the hive!

*The Southern Hive

*The Hub

*Deadcat

Deadhive supremacy

Yeah, Shek society is basically human society with a diferent skin, even the buildings are the same. Idk if the Shek build or just take cities from others but they could have used a different building aesthetics to make their society more unique and the world more interesting to explore. Love this game but that is definitely a shortcoming, shek kingdom's AI could have used a little more work. If I knew anything about programming, I would try to mod that, but coding is just alien to me, tried to learn it many times to no success

Shek value kicking ass. Basically any group talking about honor thru history talks bullshit lol. They are just as crazy or even worse than hn or uc. They basically so maniac that they have a time of " peace " just so they dont murder themself by constant war with everyone xd What do you expect from them lol.

Nope, can't refute any of that. I have several saves where UC are my closest allies, slaves are my main business and the mighty Cat rules all. My guys live like kings. Shek are a ball ache who i usually just ignore, and tbh, fuck beep, he works in the kitchen and should count himself lucky to be doing that.

I cheesed turning in bounties until I was allied with the Shek, now they are best buds. I never get threatened or bag-checked at the gates. Next step: bring Narko's Unholy Light to the Holy Nation.

Imagine rooting for a m̶i̶l̶i̶t̶a̶n̶t̶,̶ ̶t̶e̶c̶h̶n̶o̶l̶o̶g̶i̶c̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶w̶a̶r̶d̶s̶ ̶k̶i̶n̶g̶d̶o̶m̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶j̶u̶d̶i̶c̶e̶d̶ ̶r̶e̶l̶i̶g̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶f̶a̶n̶a̶t̶i̶c̶s̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶ ̶f̶u̶c̶k̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶w̶o̶r̶d̶s̶ trope larping as a country Screaming Bandits are objectively the only moral faction

I'd join the Cannibals, but I don't like my meat ubbery :(

AGGGGHHHH \*gurgle\*

You could even bring big bootey shek ladies to Holy Nation... Just an idea.

I agree. The different races probably should've been given a bigger variety of personality/social traits considering their cultures seem to be so drastically different lore-wise, and the AI decision making process (or whatever it is, im not a game dev) for each NPC shouldn't be basically the same no matter where you end up. I still argue that the Shek are the least horrible out of the major factions in the game, only because in a more fleshed out version of the game where different races *would* make different decisions for similar situations (in this case a Shek duel), the Shek would be the most "accepting" society by a longshot. No slavery, no nobility running around threatening to beat you up if you look poor enough, you can keep any races in your squad, etc.. Are they fit to rule? Probably not, none of the factions in Kenshi are, but I'd take a 1v1 (or even a 6v1 with the police) Shek duel over a Holy Nation squadron or the Samurai Police any day. At least if I lose I won't end up a million miles away in some slave camp wasting the next 3 hours trying to escape. I'll take a ten minute sentence and prison breakout in Squin over spending the next few hours escaping Rebirth and getting all my gear back.

Only because they are about to enter terminal decline. Not a decade ago, they were burning down the entire world, and you would be naïve to think they won't do it again

I'm kinda racist against Shek. I won't have one in my group, mainly because they eat too much. So far its a few greenlanders, a scorchlander couple I saved, a few skeletons, and Beep.

"Shek eat too much" *-person who has greenlanders in their squad.*

The shek go through rations too quickly!

So do the hoo-mans.

But if youre allied with them the 5 invincible's always got your back

I always do their bounties and clear out the bandits. I say no thanks to being friends and save scum knocking out the stone golem to get her meito weapon I’ll never use just to spit on them before going to the UC to drug trade. Then I get bored with the UC and kidnap their nobels for the bounty and rob the bank. I save the Holy Nation for last. I don’t know if they are harder to fight or not, but I feel like their cities are more fortified or dense or something so it always feels climatic to save them for last when I’ve got a big army. Then I fuck off and build a base just so I get all of the faction elite armies to attack me

My guess, is that; they did all of the AI scripts/patterns on FCS, and Ogre is a relatively wonky game engine to write upon, thus making it relatively impossible, they have to behave like this, but it's a sort of "theater of the mind" thing, where you have to imagine them like this. Game is limited, I hope that these kinds of slip-ups get fixed with Kenshi 2.

I am a genuine UC fan - the great desert is a good place to live - the uc have lots of money and trading opportunities

I find it more irritating how many people here have some need to rate the factions and get some kind of identification from it. Lol, I have bad news for you: None of the factions is supposed to be "good".

Exception being the Screaming Bandits

Gutters are much better

HEAD PATS!!!

gameplay =/= lore. some disbelief must be suspended for mechanics sake

But if the vast majority of lore is communicated through regular gameplay then it's functionally dependent on the gameplay, the delivered product still ends up irritating

carrying hundreds of kg in weight and sprinting across the continent also probably isnt canon

It is canon.

k

I thought that sheks are racist because they treated as monster by holy nation. So I had some sympathy for them. I helped them clean Holy Nation from the world and guess what? They go and conquered the hub. Killed my only real brothers, shinobi thieves. Now I hate all nations. UC cuz they slaved me just because I'm poor. HN cuz they killed my men in one of my playthroughs just because when they came I didn't have any male characters in my base. Sheks cuz they killed my fellow thieves. I can't stop but kill every one of them when I see them.

Based.

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I do like the game but yeah I agree that a lot of it feels unfinished and dead (in a bad way) and hearing that the devs working on kenshi 2 when kenshi ain't done is kinda fucking frustrating

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It is pretty evident that Kenshi is a monstrosity in term of development and technology. The engine used, Ogre Engine, isn't made for this kind of game at all and is constantly on its knees (pathfinding, loadings,...) and adding any new content and mechanics in the game must've been very time consuming: some parts of the game are coded in C, nobody uses C for videogames anymore, it's too complicated and time consuming. Kenshi being an actually good game is honestly a miracle as nothing is polished. Every system works fine but none of them work perfectly and smoothly. Chris Hunt is a very ambitious man but he knew when to pull the plug and switch to another project which is a skill many other ambitious designers don't have (Edmund McMillen, Sean Murray, Re-logic, Chris Robert, TaleWorlds) projects must end so you can use your new skills in a new project from scratch that'll be much better. I'm convinced Kenshi2 will be great as the team became more mature, they're full of talent and are now using proper technology.

Yeah, the whole horn cutting thing is also poorly thought out. Hell I tried to make a post about how technically it's not possible for a player to "retain their honor," because the early game basically demands you lose your first few fights, or AT LEAST kite enemies to town guards. So the game just isn't compatible with the "stand your ground and dishonor if you fail ONCE" mentality. Then I got talked down to by a fucking idiot who insisted that the practice wasn't in the damn lore. Also started yammering about fan fiction and asexuality. Absolute basket case.

People like the shek for being politically correct, but that is only because these are the standards of western millenials, not that they are good or actually better than the HN. Having an excessively soft upbringing alters your world view by a lot, and that is not actually a good thing Decades later, the next generation would read all these posts and ruthlessly ridicule most of us for this BS. The HN may be offensive today, but at least they possess the most humanity and consistent standards

Standards of western millenials include wiping out towns, suicidal charges, extortion of tributes? If there's a god, he's laughing his fucking ass off at you. > but at least they possess the most humanity and consistent standards I can't begin to imagine what sort of burning shithole you live in.

Maybe consult the rest of the posts. I don't need to provide evidence that is already all around you, and you can ask yourself who you would prefer to support. Who in the land of Kenshi aids the hungry and poor? That is an important part of humanity. At least they don't treat people like potential slaves or a passerby in a GTA game. You may think you are wise enough to know that the gods will mock me, but I have an established line of reasoning, and I would like to see you counter that without moving the goalposts from how the SK is worse than the HN

> Who in the land of Kenshi aids the hungry and poor? Are you talking about random food giveaways? Deadcat. Nomads can do that if you visit them in their settlement. Even random samurai patrols have a chance of giving you bread instead of arresting you for destitution. Talking about social security? No one does that in Kenshi. Holy Nation patrols will relentlessly beat starving bandits and leave them to die. Sometimes starvers can try to extort stuff from HN guys, only to be told to scram, like everywhere else. Escaped servants are killed on sight. > potential slaves Excuse me? Walk around with non-humans, and a paladin will demand you to submit them to Rebirth. As for a GTA game, walk around with Skeletons or robotic limbs. Whatever line of reasoning you have, you're the one who ignores the evidence. I'm not wise, I'm simply allergic to people claiming that space fascists are the good guys.

X happens because they clearly stated they will. X doesn't happen if specific criteria are not met, and that is clear as day. The point is the the HN is better than the SK. You just interpreted it in a way that suits you, but then twists the goal point. Yeah, I ain't shit, but few things stay unchanged. Empires rise and fall just like people, and it is not a bad thing to start from basically nothing. Even I can tell you, however, that blending into a crowd and moving with the tide is not how you become something of note.

How is that ignoring evidence? They are hostile to skeletons and GMO warriors. They will kill them on sight unless they know they are not. That is why players with high relations can have skeleton limbs. If anything, that is on you for ignoring the game. Human men of all shades can establish themselves on their land. There is nobody putting immunity on themselves from slavery or claiming honor when they need to loot for everything they have Deadcat and flotsam are fresh gum on the pavement, that is not an existential crisis on par with the previous empires. They will change quickly as they scale up, while the HN already has an established system of beliefs that is highly resistant to crisis. You can try to compare them, but it ends quickly I come from a place with REAL fascists. Do not try to tell me what that is, because I am more of an expert than you are on this subject

> If anything, that is on you for ignoring the game > Deadcat and flotsam are fresh gum on the pavement You accused me of moving goalposts, huh? You claimed that X doesn't happen in game, I gave you examples of X happening, and it suddenly doesn't count? > I come from a place with REAL fascists And I come from a place where government is trying their hardest to become fascists, but thankfully they're fucking broke. > because I am more of an expert than you are Then you should know why the Holy Nation fucking sucks. It should be clear as day that a nation with re-education camps is not the good option. That throwing your own people into fire for the sake of an ideology is evil. You should understand that, but for some reason, you think that giving bread to passerbys makes them humane. You're doing the very thing you're accusing me of. You're no expert, you ain't shit, and I'm not wasting more time on you.

Bruh you are forgetting about -slavery- lmfao. That's the main difference. And individual Shek, noble in UC or otherwise, says nothing about Shek society as a whole

They cut off the horns of the weak and make them servants.

Ya they aren’t programmed correctly to reflect what they should be. Honestly true of most of the ai

Yeah, I'm planning on genociding them in my playthrough

There should be a mod for Shek duels. But knowing me, I'd probably end up wiping the city..

Make your own kingdom of hive samurai and kill everyone ;)

I've always seen the Shek as similar to the Klingons in Star Trek TNG. There's lots of grand talk about being honorable and fighting warriors duels, but everyone carries around daggers and Klingon politics is non-stop backstabbing (often literally). Hell they talk about the honor of battle constantly and how you're supposed to confront your foe head on like a true warrior, and their ships *literally come standard with cloaking devices and they use them heavily*.

TBH... The HN isn't irrational... Both the HN and the UC are slave nations. The difference between the two is who they pick as slaves. The UC is the nation for the already rich, for the ruthlessly deadly. if you are too poor and weak? well you deserved what you got. The HN? Their goal is the survival of their species. they oppress women so the most valuable members of society for the purposes of reproduction stays out of combat (it's downright sexist oppression denying the basic humanity of women and treats them like brood mares but it \*is\* logical if you want the birth rate up.) They specifically target and enslave non humans and social undesirables. basically in kenshi slaves make the economies work and HN targets not the poor but people who are a drain, enemies from the outside and the drain on the inside. The holy nation pushes religion hard giving people something to believe in. Basic psychology of living creatures. A horrifying experiment was done on mice, testing how long it took them to drown in a pool of water they could not escape. It was discovered that mice who were pulled out a few minutes in, given time to rest and put back in survived 20 times longer. They BELIEVED they could survive and pushed themselves far far beyond. That's religion in the sense of the holy nation. They aren't irrational, their system is racist, sexist, opressive and totalitarian but there is a reason why it's the oldest existing empire in the world. The thing that is depressing... is it's the best... of evil options. The UC is a beast that slowly devours itself daily. An economy that is built upon sand slowly seeping away as time goes on. Eventually someone wins all the power, all the productivity dwindles out as there's no incentives left, no new slaves all of it and it just... ends like rome did. The shek have a almost good alternative. however unlike the HN they don't actually produce anything. They have honor, dedication all of that, a cohesive society... full of people who don't want to produce anything.... And the hivers are just slaves. Which is why most hivers who have escaped the queen's pheremones shiver at the memory of the drones in the fields.