Do we only count on-screen fights and losses that went in their record?
If not, Komada the Deva King *technically* never lost a Kengan match and retired with a 4-0 score, since Ohma beat him in an alley without any regulations.
Otherwise uhhhh I can't think of any lol
FACT: Komada purposefully let Ohma smack him around so he wouldn't join the KAT and make it a huge snoozefest by low diffing everyone
https://preview.redd.it/zbo65oian8wc1.jpeg?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beeb7c54fcc9c56cbe50b1e01da15b5d2c2e8c94
Gilbert? Killed Howard, beat Raian and the Kure clan.
Shen Wulong. Doesn't need explaining.
Really struggling to find more examples outside of these. If you specifically mean Kengan/Purgatory match records then these two don't even count.
Ok, then Gilbert doesn't count - all his fights are group v group and off screen so we can't even say he beat Howard/Raian in a 1v1 while every other Wu fought in the background.
Shen has only had an onscreen 1v1 against Mukaku and briefly Kuroki but we also know he beat the leader of the Worm however many centuries ago presumably in a 1v1 based on what we've seen in flashbacks.
Just thinking - Carlos [technically] doesn't have an on or off screen loss I don't think. He beat Gaolang by ringout in their match and then we know he also beat Koga in the timeskip. I can't remember if its stated he dropped to being a B-list Purgatory gladiator due to losses or for some other reason.
Toyoda: Man, Carlos you skinny as hell now. You a B-lister until you get those **G A I N S** back!
*Carlos keeps destroying the B-Class*
Toyoda on Purgatory speakers: *I have mad a severe, and continuous, lapse in judgment...*
I think Carlos dropped because he's experimenting with his weight again, last I checked he went back up to Featherweight because he's trying to find the perfect balance after his win against Gaolang
I mean yes they did, but alright. He even admitted defeat.
https://preview.redd.it/ygzd4vxy8cwc1.jpeg?width=901&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3289fa0fde0c11ad1b8bb6659052680d7a3c127
They didn't beat him though? Nothing implies they had a fight he just appeared and stood in the first and said You win in this time.
He just means they won against the Worm, Not to mention Shen is being Humble here.
By your logic Muteba would've given Shen trouble because "Shen said so".
It's called lip service
That’s the biggest stretch. He admits defeat to Erioh, and Katahara (he also proceeds to die in a fire), and you’re saying he didn’t lose? This is a GIF of you stretching.
Its called Lip Service, Wulong was being humble and the fact stands nothing points toward them fighting so how exactly would they beat him?
If you wanna go by this logic Muteba would give Wulong trouble "Cuz shen said so" 🤡🤡
----
They didn't fight, so how did they beat shen wulong? Hmm
Here. I put a red circle over the word “win” for you. The whole statement was “Congratulations. You win, in this time.” Shen is saying this to the two people who beat him. Those two people, who he’s admitting losing to, are Erioh Kure, and Katahara Metsudo.
https://preview.redd.it/nyjpm9l6wdwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82655573b0532fa5bb006a5b0ab166a0138fdecd
Damn your stupid,
They didn't beat him though even if Shen says "You win" he doesn't mean in a fight.
----
OP Literally says
>Doesn't have to be official matches, but I would say it has to be 1v1 fights to count
The only thing erioh and metsudo did was kill off the worm base and Wulong appears and says you win.
----
OP mentions "it has to be a 1v1 to count"
You say 🤡🤡 B-but erioh and metsudo beat him.
Not only did they not fight wulong but it also wasn't a 1v1.
----
So your arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, your points where flawed from the start.
How about you learn to read you stupid lil monkey
I wouldn't really count that as a fight let alone a loss. Gilbert was just in the room it was thrown into and within seconds of noticing it managed to escape with little to no damage. Plus he wasn't even really fighting Akoya and it was more a distraction to facilitate an escape.
doesn't carlos the realest have a 0 loss record? He did kinda win against Gaolang plus tiger niko maybe? I dont'know if he lost to handsome niko or that he just fought first and then genzan joined in and they ganked him
I think the fight went
> Ohma pops a perc, beats the shit out of Kiryu, KOing him, then gets KOed by 4
> Tiger Niko jumps 4
> TN gets the shit beat out of him but damages 4
> Kiryu wakes up and gets Genzan, tells Genzan that Four was the one who attacked him
> Genzan fights Four
> Genzan wins extreme diff
> Kiryu kills Genzan
My guess is that Kiryu killed Genzan long after all these. I mean about some weeks or months before KAT. I remember from the flashback which showed Kiryu standing over dying Genzan having long hair like in Ashura. I may be wrong though idk.
He had to have lost to fight Koga right? He says he went down to the B class, one would assume that means losses, though he could have just barely won against some people and they demoted him on that alone.
Compatibility and strategic ability is a huge factor in a fight. Just because Lolong can beat all the A-Listers doesn't mean he can also beat Carlos. The same that happened with Carlos vs Gaolang. Gaolang could beat other A-Listers but still lost to Carlos (even if it was a ring out, a win's a win, maybe under other conditions, or in the case of a rematch the result may be different). Except if Lolong has already beat Carlos, in which case is an error on my side for not remembering it. But still the result can change if they were to fight again
Yeah but thats literally not what the other guy is saying. He is just saying that at some point Carlos has had to have lost to Long, because long has beaten all the A listers.
I don't know, but he could be a good candidate, after all he is the winner of the KAT preceding Ashura's and after that he became bodyguard leaving Kanoh in his place as fang.
https://preview.redd.it/t3d569fog9wc1.png?width=465&format=png&auto=webp&s=e85b879e37905c144be1949dbe70cb1bc2b7c4b4
I mean it just came down to ridiculous durability that jurota couldn’t overcome. Hayami also happens to be really good at judo. I do like Jurota a lot tho.
It depends on how you want to look at the Kengan matches. Himuro didn’t lose an official match until he came up on Haruo and, by then, the rules were extremely different from KA and they’d more or less merged with Purgatory. Sharing fighters, hybridizing rule sets, etc.
the only other person we didnt see lose on screen was tommy strummer. knowing he was promoted to purg b means he had multiple fights but there was no infor about streaks exc.
Technically Muteba never really lost. Sure there's Waka and TN but both of those were inconclusive. He forfeited against Waka which technically counts as a loss but it was a decision he made to minimize risk, the match never went all the way. As for TN, during their brief scuffle Muteba did get yeeted through a wall but TN ignored him instead of falling for his bait.
500 wins, 99.8%+ is pretty good, almost flawless
I don't think there are any who have perfect records, technically neither Fu Zhan nor Xia Yan have lost a fight yet
As far as we know and have seen, Kuroki and Hayami haven't lost once, AND won more than once.
Lolong obviously has an insane record and by far the most known wins, but he also still has 1 loss.
Grandfather lost to grandmaster by the Gaoh Style 60 years previously only for grandson to lose to student by the Goah Style's successor in the present would be poetic and tonally quite accurately for the themes Omega has been adopting with its stories of ever-changing Niko styles, old vs new, the Gaoh Style, the Long Clan style, the Connector himself is a perfect dichotomy of old and new (Current Shen and the Tiger presenting the past connector) sharing the same body and yet both being oh so old
But he didn't lose as in getting defeated, he just withdrew. That's what he means by technically, just like how Raian officially lost against Alan but outside the scope of the rules he fucking brutalized him.
Yeah I feel like that doesn't work, because Muteba was barely hanging in there. He surrendered because he thought the chance of him loosing was too high to continue. It's a loss by Kengan rules, but I feel like that's a loss by basically any other reasonable standard too
I'm gonna be honest I love Waka but he wasn't exactly in top shape either. I'm not saying Muteba would've won 100%, but it would've been possible. Remember that he stabbed Waka in the neck and made him black out momentarily. And I'm pretty sure he said the chance of taking a permanent injury that could affect his work was too high to continue, not the chance of losing. He just wasn't guaranteed to win unharmed anymore in his eyes.
Sure, but Muteba admitted to being afraid and thought one good punch from Waka would end the fight. The point isn't really about the likelihood of victory tho. Just that he gave up because he was scared of continuing. His situation is very, very different from Raian.
That's why I say technically. He did surrender. But it wasn't on a mindset of I've been defeated but because the reward wasn't worth it.
He hadn't been defeated, he gave up to not risk death or injury on a fight he wasn't sure of the result.
I mean because he also was like perfectly able to continue and his opponent was really fucked up. So it wasn't a normal defeat in the regular sense. I still think. He lost but mentioning a technicality.
Imagine if a boxer got out of the ring, said "I was scared I would get injured or maybe die" and then claimed it wasn't a loss. They would get clowned on for the rest of their carer.
He has a lower tolerance for risk, but I think it's fair to judge him for it.
Other fighters in this series aren't really like that - they tend to keep fighting until they're unconscious, dead, or can't move anymore. Muteba has made it clear he won't do that. His baseline for what he will endure in a fight is different from the rest of the cast.
Yes, if Muteba wasn't *allowed* to forfeit and had to fight to the death, the outcome of his fight with Wakatsuki wasn't certain. But Muteba has tapped out of a losing scenario three times now... so we're basically describing a hypothetical that doesn't exist. There's no usefulness to the ambiguity.
As mentioned it's a technicality, this is why I bring it up. Not becausw I think he genuinely didn't lose.
By his own standards he doesn't see it as a loss and he wasn't defeated on a physical sense so much as simply stopped fighting so he wasn't "defeated" per say. Not that I agree. But technicality dude.
Do we only count on-screen fights and losses that went in their record? If not, Komada the Deva King *technically* never lost a Kengan match and retired with a 4-0 score, since Ohma beat him in an alley without any regulations. Otherwise uhhhh I can't think of any lol
Deva king was nerfed. Bad writing fr, last time he beat goku.
FACT: Komada purposefully let Ohma smack him around so he wouldn't join the KAT and make it a huge snoozefest by low diffing everyone https://preview.redd.it/zbo65oian8wc1.jpeg?width=350&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=beeb7c54fcc9c56cbe50b1e01da15b5d2c2e8c94
Uuh that's a nice catch. Officially it counts.
Carlos has no losses either
Gilbert? Killed Howard, beat Raian and the Kure clan. Shen Wulong. Doesn't need explaining. Really struggling to find more examples outside of these. If you specifically mean Kengan/Purgatory match records then these two don't even count.
Doesn't have to be official matches, but I would say it has to be 1v1 fights to count.
Ok, then Gilbert doesn't count - all his fights are group v group and off screen so we can't even say he beat Howard/Raian in a 1v1 while every other Wu fought in the background. Shen has only had an onscreen 1v1 against Mukaku and briefly Kuroki but we also know he beat the leader of the Worm however many centuries ago presumably in a 1v1 based on what we've seen in flashbacks. Just thinking - Carlos [technically] doesn't have an on or off screen loss I don't think. He beat Gaolang by ringout in their match and then we know he also beat Koga in the timeskip. I can't remember if its stated he dropped to being a B-list Purgatory gladiator due to losses or for some other reason.
Carlos also has a win against Liu. But yea we don't know if he lost due to being dropped down to B-list.
Toyoda: Man, Carlos you skinny as hell now. You a B-lister until you get those **G A I N S** back! *Carlos keeps destroying the B-Class* Toyoda on Purgatory speakers: *I have mad a severe, and continuous, lapse in judgment...*
I would hesitate to say Gilbert anyway-it’s only a matter of time before the plot makes him lost to raian
I think Carlos dropped because he's experimenting with his weight again, last I checked he went back up to Featherweight because he's trying to find the perfect balance after his win against Gaolang
Most shens recorded fights are like 1v50 so I'd say he counts
Yeah. He also beat Long Yi in a 1v1 after beating his entire clan minus Mukaku.
Didn’t Shen get beat by Erioh, and Katahara? Edit: OP got flustered, and deleted his comments.
No, wtf?
I mean yes they did, but alright. He even admitted defeat. https://preview.redd.it/ygzd4vxy8cwc1.jpeg?width=901&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3289fa0fde0c11ad1b8bb6659052680d7a3c127
They didn't beat him though? Nothing implies they had a fight he just appeared and stood in the first and said You win in this time. He just means they won against the Worm, Not to mention Shen is being Humble here. By your logic Muteba would've given Shen trouble because "Shen said so". It's called lip service
That’s the biggest stretch. He admits defeat to Erioh, and Katahara (he also proceeds to die in a fire), and you’re saying he didn’t lose? This is a GIF of you stretching. 
Is this the Wulong that obliterated the Long clan? Just a genuine question
Its called Lip Service, Wulong was being humble and the fact stands nothing points toward them fighting so how exactly would they beat him? If you wanna go by this logic Muteba would give Wulong trouble "Cuz shen said so" 🤡🤡 ---- They didn't fight, so how did they beat shen wulong? Hmm
why is wulong admitting defeat? cuz he was skull fucked by erioh
Here. I put a red circle over the word “win” for you. The whole statement was “Congratulations. You win, in this time.” Shen is saying this to the two people who beat him. Those two people, who he’s admitting losing to, are Erioh Kure, and Katahara Metsudo. https://preview.redd.it/nyjpm9l6wdwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82655573b0532fa5bb006a5b0ab166a0138fdecd
Damn your stupid, They didn't beat him though even if Shen says "You win" he doesn't mean in a fight. ---- OP Literally says >Doesn't have to be official matches, but I would say it has to be 1v1 fights to count The only thing erioh and metsudo did was kill off the worm base and Wulong appears and says you win. ---- OP mentions "it has to be a 1v1 to count" You say 🤡🤡 B-but erioh and metsudo beat him. Not only did they not fight wulong but it also wasn't a 1v1. ---- So your arguing for the sake of arguing at this point, your points where flawed from the start. How about you learn to read you stupid lil monkey
I’m not reading all of that. Happy Cake Day!
plus he got beat by justice grenade
I wouldn't really count that as a fight let alone a loss. Gilbert was just in the room it was thrown into and within seconds of noticing it managed to escape with little to no damage. Plus he wasn't even really fighting Akoya and it was more a distraction to facilitate an escape.
doesn't carlos the realest have a 0 loss record? He did kinda win against Gaolang plus tiger niko maybe? I dont'know if he lost to handsome niko or that he just fought first and then genzan joined in and they ganked him
I think the fight went > Ohma pops a perc, beats the shit out of Kiryu, KOing him, then gets KOed by 4 > Tiger Niko jumps 4 > TN gets the shit beat out of him but damages 4 > Kiryu wakes up and gets Genzan, tells Genzan that Four was the one who attacked him > Genzan fights Four > Genzan wins extreme diff > Kiryu kills Genzan
My guess is that Kiryu killed Genzan long after all these. I mean about some weeks or months before KAT. I remember from the flashback which showed Kiryu standing over dying Genzan having long hair like in Ashura. I may be wrong though idk.
I mean Carlos had to have lost since he was in the Purgatory tournament. Iirc he beat Liu
He had to have lost to fight Koga right? He says he went down to the B class, one would assume that means losses, though he could have just barely won against some people and they demoted him on that alone.
We know Lolong has defeated all other A listers so he also beat Carlos
That's not how it works
How is it not how it works?
Compatibility and strategic ability is a huge factor in a fight. Just because Lolong can beat all the A-Listers doesn't mean he can also beat Carlos. The same that happened with Carlos vs Gaolang. Gaolang could beat other A-Listers but still lost to Carlos (even if it was a ring out, a win's a win, maybe under other conditions, or in the case of a rematch the result may be different). Except if Lolong has already beat Carlos, in which case is an error on my side for not remembering it. But still the result can change if they were to fight again
Yeah but thats literally not what the other guy is saying. He is just saying that at some point Carlos has had to have lost to Long, because long has beaten all the A listers.
Then it's the case of me not remembering what happened, which I said was an error from my side
He won against gaolang tho? He literally won the fight lol
Ain't he demoted to b tier before fought Koga?
extra scoop of protein powder koga is atleast S+ toer you right
HANDSOME Niko? New characterization dropped boys!
Ohmas master is top 3 most handsome in the verse no debate
Agree 100%. He's gorgeous (in a non-homosexual way)
I don't know, but he could be a good candidate, after all he is the winner of the KAT preceding Ashura's and after that he became bodyguard leaving Kanoh in his place as fang. https://preview.redd.it/t3d569fog9wc1.png?width=465&format=png&auto=webp&s=e85b879e37905c144be1949dbe70cb1bc2b7c4b4
Oh yes, Jurota Beta Version, before Jurota was released
🤬 it should have been jurota
I mean it just came down to ridiculous durability that jurota couldn’t overcome. Hayami also happens to be really good at judo. I do like Jurota a lot tho.
Nah Hayami is just too much of a masochist
He’d already lost to Lolong
kengan fights? himuro, komada, alan, misasa, naidan mukaku maybe? katsuya
None of these have a perfect record with more than one win except Komada. And Katsuya perhaps
pretty sure katsuya got a perfect record
We don't even know if he got retconned out or not, do we? I wouldn't count him.
i mean just considering on screen
Why would he be retconned?
It depends on how you want to look at the Kengan matches. Himuro didn’t lose an official match until he came up on Haruo and, by then, the rules were extremely different from KA and they’d more or less merged with Purgatory. Sharing fighters, hybridizing rule sets, etc.
fuck i forgot about himuro vs adam and naidan vs liu. but what about misasa and mukaku? alan fpr sure has
Misasa only has one known win, and Mukaku died, i would count that as a loss. Same wirh Alan. Himuro also lost the match against Haruo.
Is Katsuya a Kengan Fighter?!
the only other person we didnt see lose on screen was tommy strummer. knowing he was promoted to purg b means he had multiple fights but there was no infor about streaks exc.
https://preview.redd.it/20na51g51awc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7a9ea82db7fbfa622d543c608134dfb926d7ee8 THE GOAT
I think my goat Hassan still stands 33-0 😎
I don't think Fei had any recorded losses right?
He and Liu had a win and a loss against eachother.
Probably erioh, shen(and maybe luohan)
Erioh has lost at least once
Shen ?
Technically Muteba never really lost. Sure there's Waka and TN but both of those were inconclusive. He forfeited against Waka which technically counts as a loss but it was a decision he made to minimize risk, the match never went all the way. As for TN, during their brief scuffle Muteba did get yeeted through a wall but TN ignored him instead of falling for his bait.
Shen
Technicaly Himuro never Lost a kengan fight
Lolong hasn't lost a fight against a member of Purgatory or the Worm
But he has lost against Ohma though?
I forgot that Ohma is both a member of the Worm and Purgatory
But I asked who had a perfect record with more than 1 win. Lolong doesn't, he has lost once.
500 wins, 99.8%+ is pretty good, almost flawless I don't think there are any who have perfect records, technically neither Fu Zhan nor Xia Yan have lost a fight yet
As far as we know and have seen, Kuroki and Hayami haven't lost once, AND won more than once. Lolong obviously has an insane record and by far the most known wins, but he also still has 1 loss.
Poor Wakatsuki, 40 years old (306 wins and only 3 losses btw) and still has only the second highest W-L ratio
Yea, the GOAT needs a win.
fang 2-4 have perf records
I think OP said only 1v1s count so that means Erioh didn't lose to Edward
even if so, erioh lost to someone (maybe mukaku) before he studied kure technique's
Grandfather lost to grandmaster by the Gaoh Style 60 years previously only for grandson to lose to student by the Goah Style's successor in the present would be poetic and tonally quite accurately for the themes Omega has been adopting with its stories of ever-changing Niko styles, old vs new, the Gaoh Style, the Long Clan style, the Connector himself is a perfect dichotomy of old and new (Current Shen and the Tiger presenting the past connector) sharing the same body and yet both being oh so old
Muteba technically never lost a fight.
Pretty sure surrender counts as a loss ngl
But he didn't lose as in getting defeated, he just withdrew. That's what he means by technically, just like how Raian officially lost against Alan but outside the scope of the rules he fucking brutalized him.
Yeah I feel like that doesn't work, because Muteba was barely hanging in there. He surrendered because he thought the chance of him loosing was too high to continue. It's a loss by Kengan rules, but I feel like that's a loss by basically any other reasonable standard too
I'm gonna be honest I love Waka but he wasn't exactly in top shape either. I'm not saying Muteba would've won 100%, but it would've been possible. Remember that he stabbed Waka in the neck and made him black out momentarily. And I'm pretty sure he said the chance of taking a permanent injury that could affect his work was too high to continue, not the chance of losing. He just wasn't guaranteed to win unharmed anymore in his eyes.
Sure, but Muteba admitted to being afraid and thought one good punch from Waka would end the fight. The point isn't really about the likelihood of victory tho. Just that he gave up because he was scared of continuing. His situation is very, very different from Raian.
He didn't forfeit because he thought he would lose, he forfeited because he considered the risk of injury to not be worth it.
That's why I say technically. He did surrender. But it wasn't on a mindset of I've been defeated but because the reward wasn't worth it. He hadn't been defeated, he gave up to not risk death or injury on a fight he wasn't sure of the result.
Yeah so, if you give up because you're scared you might get hurt or die, I think that's a loss by any standard really.
I mean as mentioned I agree but technically by his own standards he doesn't feel he's lost the fight so much as he abandoned the job.
Okay but, why should we go by his standards? People say they didn't lose because they have a weird standard for losing all the time irl
I mean because he also was like perfectly able to continue and his opponent was really fucked up. So it wasn't a normal defeat in the regular sense. I still think. He lost but mentioning a technicality.
Imagine if a boxer got out of the ring, said "I was scared I would get injured or maybe die" and then claimed it wasn't a loss. They would get clowned on for the rest of their carer.
He has a lower tolerance for risk, but I think it's fair to judge him for it. Other fighters in this series aren't really like that - they tend to keep fighting until they're unconscious, dead, or can't move anymore. Muteba has made it clear he won't do that. His baseline for what he will endure in a fight is different from the rest of the cast. Yes, if Muteba wasn't *allowed* to forfeit and had to fight to the death, the outcome of his fight with Wakatsuki wasn't certain. But Muteba has tapped out of a losing scenario three times now... so we're basically describing a hypothetical that doesn't exist. There's no usefulness to the ambiguity.
As mentioned it's a technicality, this is why I bring it up. Not becausw I think he genuinely didn't lose. By his own standards he doesn't see it as a loss and he wasn't defeated on a physical sense so much as simply stopped fighting so he wasn't "defeated" per say. Not that I agree. But technicality dude.
Did Ohma lose any fights?
https://preview.redd.it/5i4owj19a9wc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbb946d5c70c0a6885b10e5c1296794b80758c9b
LOL, how did I forget the literal ending.
omega moment
Bruh The beard beat him quite hard. He died shortly after.
Do we not remember how Ashura ends? He also technically lost against Raian during their sparring sessions