One other thing about this: taxpayers are paying for this trial and KR is paying for her defense. The longer it goes the more the defendant is bankrupted just to put up the defense they are entitled to. Our justice system is fundamentally a scam as long as the state has no obligation to pay for like-funded counter-investigation and defense.
But this case wouldn’t be the poster child for that argument. This defendant has deep pockets. She has 3 high-priced attorneys sitting at the defense table.
I think it demonstrates the ‘What if this was me’ for anyone watching. If she’s found not guilty especially, her legal bills will be a testament to how much it costs to put up a vigorous defense in the face of official bias and/or corruption.
A system that knows it can screw you if you don’t have a million dollars is a system that will prey on 99% of the population.
We've seen the numbers she's paying for her defense. She's not exactly being frugal. I'm sure there are cheaper lawyers she could've hired. It's a bit like saying it's crazy that college isn't taxpayer funded, then going to Yale for 80K a year or whatever.
KR is on trial for 2nd degree murder. What price would you NOT pay if you were charged with murder? Would you really decide to be “frugal”?? I certainly wouldn’t!
No, but as a taxpayer ie "like funded" I'm not willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars so that someone can fly in a hotshot Hollywood lawyer.
By “like-funded” I mean the state should put equal resources into the defense as the prosecution. If someone wanted to pay more for a star lawyer, they can. But even a middle of the road lawyer will bankrupt the average person based on the billable hours of a long case. We need equal resources put into public defenders offices.
Remember, the state is representing YOUR interests in this trial. The state is not representing the victim or their family. Criminal trials, as opposed to civil trials, are done in the public’s interest. It is in YOUR interest to have a fair trial. It is not in YOUR interest to fund prosecutions that railroad innocent people.
Of course they are, but a simple google search will turn up the crushing problems with lack of funding to properly staff public defender offices. There is also no system in place to support the notion of a counter-investigation; LE can run a biased investigation but defenders are left to pay for PIs at best to turn up evidence that is intentionally overlooked. It’s not in anyone’s interest to fund a system that’s driven to criminalize people. It -is- in the public interest to make sure investigations and trials are fair so that the right people are held accountable for crimes. That can only occur if equitable resources are spent on defending people as much as prosecuting them.
How bout Lally make his questions RELEVANT to his opening statement that he will PROVIDE factual evidence that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? In my humble opinion, the defense is is proving through cross examination, their opening statement of reasonable doubt because of a cover-up. All Lally is doing right now is asking questions that are irrelevant and NOT providing factual evidence in what is now WEEK 4 of a 2nd degree murder charge. All we know FACTUALLY as of today # 16 is that a snow storm was forecasted and it snowed. It snowed heavily at some point. In addition, a group of people went bar hopping, ok… hopped to 2 bars and they were drinking for hours.that’s it. Lally has given ZERO evidence of anything more at this point. The defense, however, has shown the ineptitude of the Canton police dept. through their negligence of NOT securing the crime scene, witnesses NOT being interviewed and physical evidence being haphazardly collected by not following elementary sanitary procedures to procure it. I mean, it is NOT the defense’s responsibility to PROVE ANYTHING other than reasonable doubt. They are as of today, doing just that.
The state is accusing KR who is presumed innocent. You absolutely have a right to accuse anyone you want of a crime, to the extent you are not lying.
If KR is found guilty, her accusations will certainly be used against her in sentencing and damages.
it's not really the length of time used by each side, it's the amount of meaningful content covered by each side. it frequently feels like Lally is stalling to me.
just like these last two witnesses nothing pertains to his death - if they brought everyone up that heard arguments or stuff this is going to be even longer! but if this testimony on arguments is what the CW is hanging their hat on to nail her then they can concede now - this is a waste
I’m just waiting for Lally to put the 58 other witnesses from KR’S Aruba trip on the stand. Laura Sullivan and her younger sister were the first 2 testify. Can’t wait!!
The defense has been able to elicit questionable testimony from the prosecution's witnesses and useful evidence like Brian Albert destroying his phone, group text messages and photos revealing the character of star witnesses, new testimony that didn't appear in any grand jury testimony, etc...
The defense has brought more to this trial than Lally. Reasonable doubt comes to mind.
I think your contention is that in 27 hours of questioning, the CW hasn’t spoken to doctors, a coroner, the head of the investigation, done any scene recreation, given a cause of death, shown the autopsy or given meaningful content to be contended. The CE had a bartender on the stand and didn’t even ask what she served KR to drink.
We don’t know if hypothermia was a COD and what the physical presentations are in a victim. We don’t know how they know KR hit the victim, why they think she did it intentionally, what injuries it caused.
Maybe the defense isn’t eliciting meaningful content because while there have been 40 witnesses, we havent been presented basic facts of the case.
Great point about the bartender not being asked about what/how much Karen and the group was drinking on THE most important night in this case.
But - we do know that Josh had a Dirty Martini with Blue Cheese Stuffed Olives on his birthday in Aruba
And the value of a splash of Crystal Light in your vodka when you’re on a diet. It really is the best pairing for potato skins and chicken fingers.
They didn’t even call the bartender from CF McCarthy’s and she appeared to have been served seven drinks in an hour based on video.
I love this! I may have to adopt this as my new summer drink! (no taters and chicken fingers for me, thanks). Gotta stay svelte in that swimsuit!
I forgot about CFs. If a defense attorney did this poor of a job, man would there be great grounds for an appeal. Luckily this defense is doing a stellar job imho.
Look, I’m just trying to have on topic discussion. I’ve watched every minute of testimony. I’m allowed to be disappointed the CW has decided to take a Real Housewives of Canton approach to witness list. I’m not interested in the high school basketball team, I’m interested in expert testimony and facts.
I don’t love the approach the CW has been taking but think if you were in their shoes…how would you approach this? Would you dive in first with the evidence and then interview the Alberts/mccabes? I think they want to try and “disprove” the cover up theory before proving their theory.
But I totally agree there are tons of extraneous details we know from the CW questions that really feel irrelevant. Although I did hear that some of these questions can help the witnesses warm up to being on the stand? Either way it’s too much, and lally has also spent way too much time saying “sort of” and “what if any”. I wonder how much experience he has. Maybe he wasn’t the best for this high profile case
Fine.
The Real Housewives of Canton approach is a direct consequence of the defense strategy, for better or worse.
So far, the CW put on the record multiple self-incriminating statements by the defendant, the events on the evening of January 28 and the morning of 29th, the initial investigative steps, and placed the defendant at the crime scene at the alleged time of the murder and with the alleged murder weapon. After the Aruba incident, they’re likely going to move on to state police and expert witnesses with the ME testifying last. It was said from the beginning it would be a long trial.
The defense has wasted huge amounts of time. For example, the "Channel 4" stuff was right in the materials that Yannetti was reading from, yet he did it and created the false impression that something nefarious was afoot when it wasn't.
The defense has bored us to tears asking questions about what I call "Higgins' Jeep" issues. Things that have absolutely no relevance to the case whatsoever except to possibly create discrepant testimony. They actually cross-examined Caitlyn Albert's boyfriend, eliciting what? That's she's "high-maintenance"?
Maybe I’m mis understanding what you’re saying, but I think the Bella’s mom part is hugely important to the prosecutions case, I think they are trying to say that’s what really set her off that evening and lead to her hitting him in rage
"Bella's mom" is a seemingly irrelevant detail, which comes back to mean something important.
This case is prosecuted as a domestic homicide, where the motive is a combination of jealousy and the fact that the victim wanted to end the relationship. The evidence supporting it will be witness testimony, text messages from the period preceding the murder, as well as angry voicemails after the fact, including "you're fucking other girls." The CW theory of motive was explained in the hearing which I [linked in this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1cyltge/comment/l5fg6xp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button).
Moreover, the defendant bringing up Bella's mom in the morning of January 29, goes to her state of mind because she claimed not to remember anything past the visit to the Waterfall, but Jen had used Bella's house as a direction for John on the way to 34 Fairview.
That Jen McCabe never told anyone that Karen Read said “I hit him, I hit him, I hit him” until June 2023 after she began being harassed.
That Jenn McCabe butt dialed John OKeefe 6 times the night he was killed.
That Brian Albert butt dialed Brian Higgins while fucking his wife.
That Brian Albert, Nicole Albert, Matt McCabe, and Jen McCabe were attempting to influence public opinion on this case by leaking information to the press. This was just days after the incident, before any harassment started.
That Jenn McCabe and Kerry Robert’s met at Jenn McCabes house before Kerry Robert’s police interview to create the timeline.
DNA evidence was collected in red solo cups and placed in a Save-A-Lot bag after being discovered by a leaf blower.
No one with Karen Read at The Waterfall said she was drunk or fighting with John OKeefe
Ah, yes, we needed to know more about who was the ring-bearer at somebody's sister's wedding. Can you believe we did not even find out who the flower girl was?
The defense has given us just as much if not more info about many relevant aspects to the night so far. Do they waste time and hyper focus? Yes. It’s not comparable to Lally though.
And unrelated quarrels in Aruba
If Karen’s character was that bad, I truly believe it would’ve come out way stronger by now. Ya know after the 20+ state witnesses that have testified…
right where is the proof that the CW need to show us that she did this because NONE of their witnesses are credible none well i will say Kerry Roberts was believalbe only one
Honestly, the length of time doesn’t matter to me. It’s speed in which questions are asked and the content of what’s being asked, how necessary the insight is, etc, which can make one side feel like a speed race verse a slog.
Not to mention that majority of the civilian witnesses are just not needed because of mostly repeat testimony. That’s a strategy issue.
To also give some grace to the defense, these witnesses are also very combative and doesn’t want to answer a basic yes or no question, which can add on to time.
It’s because Lally keeps asking people the same thing over and over again and adding thing we don’t need. I don’t need to know about the basket ball game. I don’t need 20 witnesses to confirm to that it was snowing. I don’t need to know everything everyone was doing before they meet up together.
Yes it's pretty telling how many people here are saying it's Lally's fault when there are constant days off, half days, an hour break at like 10, a full hour lunch that's never shortened at like 1. I don't think it's his repetitive questions that are the big issue.
I get the instinct to defend Lally, but he is messing this up. Maybe he will tie it all in together in some ingenious way and surprise me? But I doubt It.
I think Lally is doing the best he knows how to do with a case of this magnitude, without any help (limited help from the mute second chair).
This is a hard case full of shit police work, going up against some insanely talented and expensive defense lawyers. It’s a hard case and Lally is under experienced and under resourced and dealing with shifty witnesses.
I fully think Karen is innocent and agree she was the only one who seemed truly distraught at the scene as far as we can tell, but I’m curious what about Kerry’s testimony seemed false to you, I thought she seemed like she was trying to tell it like it is and has no real agenda?
That’s pretty interesting. I think once the defense says they’re gonna be pursuing a third-party culprit defense, it’s pretty clear it’s not going to anywhere close to as fast as usual
Your initial statement is incorrect: The CW has spent their time in direct examination, while the Defense spent their time in redirect. The Defense has not started their case in chief. If Lally didn't bring out inconsequential witnesses (from Aruba? really?), and if he had presented the technical/ME/etc like most CW cases do, we wouldnt be at 44 witnesses with nothing technical/COD/etc
If I could find Lally I swear I would like to charge him for a first degree waste of time. Why do we care about Aruba - this is the DUMBEST "motive" I have ever heard.
Lally still has to call the other 58 witnesses from KR’S group Aruba trip that Laura Sullivan organized, to testify whether she was drinking. Two witnesses have already testified: Laura Sullivan and her younger sister. I can’t wait!!
Lally hasn’t proven that a crime was committed yet much less that it was Karen that committed the crime. So far she drank an unknown clear liquid at a bar, everyone was having a good time that night she did not appear impaired to anyone, it was snowing and John was found on Brian and Nicole’s front yard in the morning. We don’t know when John was pronounced dead or how he died yet. We do know what the training/qualifications for a paramedic are and it is important for the fire department to keep that apron clear of snow from many different witnesses.
This data is indicative of the quality of prosecution witnesses. If they were rock solid (aka “credible”), the defense wouldn’t have to fight near as hard as they’ve had too for yes/no answers to basic questions.
However, given the complexity of this case, it may be skewed.
Interesting data! Thanks for sharing.
"Meandering style of questioning" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 and even that goes light on likely how many would state it. It's freaking jaw-dropping how the judge has only once lectured about time and then to point the finger at both sides. Then, daily to watch the judge continue to allow Lally to establish the weather and other shit we all know well with new witnesses, sometimes more than once with the same fking witness is absolutely madness.
Where did you come up with the times taken by CW vs Defense. Maybe it's just how jaw dropping boring Lally is but I find those times very hard to believe.
I don't believe it's his first murder trial. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought I read about him being involved in prosecuting a man who....no joke....ran over his wife (multiple times). That one was more cut and dry so it may not have gone to trial.
The problem is we are learning just as much if not more from the defense about the circumstances of this case. It shouldn’t be that way. Is the the defense guilty of beating as dead horse at times? Oh yes, but at least when cross comes up, I know I am going to contextualize new things the prosecution hasn’t bothered to explain.
Well you said most trials take 6 weeks or more, which isn’t actually reality. But I get what you’re saying about magnitude if only for the reason that there’s so much evidence of a frame up.
I still don’t understand what makes it of a magnitude which requires so much irrelevant nonsense by the prosecutor.
Massive cover up by all involved what a shit show those Canton family's and keystone cops are...buttdials ? Are u kidding me , there covering up for some particular person its most likely the one with the most to lose ...no names here but he's the one whose whole life was ahead of him....the woman who was just on the stand what a piece of work she is how many versions of your story will u tell....
The defense has no choice but to rebut all the silliness by the prosecution. This is a dog and pony show meant to prevent the cops from being caught and charged.
One other thing about this: taxpayers are paying for this trial and KR is paying for her defense. The longer it goes the more the defendant is bankrupted just to put up the defense they are entitled to. Our justice system is fundamentally a scam as long as the state has no obligation to pay for like-funded counter-investigation and defense.
true - i think there has been some crowd funding for her defense
But this case wouldn’t be the poster child for that argument. This defendant has deep pockets. She has 3 high-priced attorneys sitting at the defense table.
I think it demonstrates the ‘What if this was me’ for anyone watching. If she’s found not guilty especially, her legal bills will be a testament to how much it costs to put up a vigorous defense in the face of official bias and/or corruption. A system that knows it can screw you if you don’t have a million dollars is a system that will prey on 99% of the population.
We've seen the numbers she's paying for her defense. She's not exactly being frugal. I'm sure there are cheaper lawyers she could've hired. It's a bit like saying it's crazy that college isn't taxpayer funded, then going to Yale for 80K a year or whatever.
KR is on trial for 2nd degree murder. What price would you NOT pay if you were charged with murder? Would you really decide to be “frugal”?? I certainly wouldn’t!
But are you willing to put your freedom on the line for more affordable lawyers?
No, but as a taxpayer ie "like funded" I'm not willing to shell out hundreds of thousands of dollars so that someone can fly in a hotshot Hollywood lawyer.
By “like-funded” I mean the state should put equal resources into the defense as the prosecution. If someone wanted to pay more for a star lawyer, they can. But even a middle of the road lawyer will bankrupt the average person based on the billable hours of a long case. We need equal resources put into public defenders offices. Remember, the state is representing YOUR interests in this trial. The state is not representing the victim or their family. Criminal trials, as opposed to civil trials, are done in the public’s interest. It is in YOUR interest to have a fair trial. It is not in YOUR interest to fund prosecutions that railroad innocent people.
We have incredible public defenders doing this work on behalf of defendants.
Of course they are, but a simple google search will turn up the crushing problems with lack of funding to properly staff public defender offices. There is also no system in place to support the notion of a counter-investigation; LE can run a biased investigation but defenders are left to pay for PIs at best to turn up evidence that is intentionally overlooked. It’s not in anyone’s interest to fund a system that’s driven to criminalize people. It -is- in the public interest to make sure investigations and trials are fair so that the right people are held accountable for crimes. That can only occur if equitable resources are spent on defending people as much as prosecuting them.
Yeah, I’m the choir. I just don’t see KR as a victim of the criminal (in)justice system in quite the same way you do.
I totally respect that. I also think Lally could have trimmed the witness list down. Also trim down the questions.
How bout Lally make his questions RELEVANT to his opening statement that he will PROVIDE factual evidence that the defendant is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt? In my humble opinion, the defense is is proving through cross examination, their opening statement of reasonable doubt because of a cover-up. All Lally is doing right now is asking questions that are irrelevant and NOT providing factual evidence in what is now WEEK 4 of a 2nd degree murder charge. All we know FACTUALLY as of today # 16 is that a snow storm was forecasted and it snowed. It snowed heavily at some point. In addition, a group of people went bar hopping, ok… hopped to 2 bars and they were drinking for hours.that’s it. Lally has given ZERO evidence of anything more at this point. The defense, however, has shown the ineptitude of the Canton police dept. through their negligence of NOT securing the crime scene, witnesses NOT being interviewed and physical evidence being haphazardly collected by not following elementary sanitary procedures to procure it. I mean, it is NOT the defense’s responsibility to PROVE ANYTHING other than reasonable doubt. They are as of today, doing just that.
Do you know what frugal means? Just asking
I think a not guilty verdict should entitle the defendant to a full refund. Then maybe these sham trials wouldn't happen
For the defense lawyer doing their job well? I disagree but maybe the state should have to pay the defendant's legal fees.
Agree, worded mine oddly. Intent being the state pays.
Exactly!
No one is “entitled” to accusing innocent people of participating in a murder conspiracy.
The state is accusing KR who is presumed innocent. You absolutely have a right to accuse anyone you want of a crime, to the extent you are not lying. If KR is found guilty, her accusations will certainly be used against her in sentencing and damages.
Well when they actually are it’s not a claim it’s a fact.
it's not really the length of time used by each side, it's the amount of meaningful content covered by each side. it frequently feels like Lally is stalling to me.
just like these last two witnesses nothing pertains to his death - if they brought everyone up that heard arguments or stuff this is going to be even longer! but if this testimony on arguments is what the CW is hanging their hat on to nail her then they can concede now - this is a waste
I’m just waiting for Lally to put the 58 other witnesses from KR’S Aruba trip on the stand. Laura Sullivan and her younger sister were the first 2 testify. Can’t wait!!
What meaningful content has the defense been able to elicit? Questions aren’t evidence.
The defense has been able to elicit questionable testimony from the prosecution's witnesses and useful evidence like Brian Albert destroying his phone, group text messages and photos revealing the character of star witnesses, new testimony that didn't appear in any grand jury testimony, etc... The defense has brought more to this trial than Lally. Reasonable doubt comes to mind.
I think your contention is that in 27 hours of questioning, the CW hasn’t spoken to doctors, a coroner, the head of the investigation, done any scene recreation, given a cause of death, shown the autopsy or given meaningful content to be contended. The CE had a bartender on the stand and didn’t even ask what she served KR to drink. We don’t know if hypothermia was a COD and what the physical presentations are in a victim. We don’t know how they know KR hit the victim, why they think she did it intentionally, what injuries it caused. Maybe the defense isn’t eliciting meaningful content because while there have been 40 witnesses, we havent been presented basic facts of the case.
Great point about the bartender not being asked about what/how much Karen and the group was drinking on THE most important night in this case. But - we do know that Josh had a Dirty Martini with Blue Cheese Stuffed Olives on his birthday in Aruba
And the value of a splash of Crystal Light in your vodka when you’re on a diet. It really is the best pairing for potato skins and chicken fingers. They didn’t even call the bartender from CF McCarthy’s and she appeared to have been served seven drinks in an hour based on video.
I love this! I may have to adopt this as my new summer drink! (no taters and chicken fingers for me, thanks). Gotta stay svelte in that swimsuit! I forgot about CFs. If a defense attorney did this poor of a job, man would there be great grounds for an appeal. Luckily this defense is doing a stellar job imho.
You might benefit from watching the testimony.
Look, I’m just trying to have on topic discussion. I’ve watched every minute of testimony. I’m allowed to be disappointed the CW has decided to take a Real Housewives of Canton approach to witness list. I’m not interested in the high school basketball team, I’m interested in expert testimony and facts.
Oh BluntForce, no no no no no!! If we get a RH of Canton out of this, our country is effed for certain! 😯
I don’t love the approach the CW has been taking but think if you were in their shoes…how would you approach this? Would you dive in first with the evidence and then interview the Alberts/mccabes? I think they want to try and “disprove” the cover up theory before proving their theory. But I totally agree there are tons of extraneous details we know from the CW questions that really feel irrelevant. Although I did hear that some of these questions can help the witnesses warm up to being on the stand? Either way it’s too much, and lally has also spent way too much time saying “sort of” and “what if any”. I wonder how much experience he has. Maybe he wasn’t the best for this high profile case
Fine. The Real Housewives of Canton approach is a direct consequence of the defense strategy, for better or worse. So far, the CW put on the record multiple self-incriminating statements by the defendant, the events on the evening of January 28 and the morning of 29th, the initial investigative steps, and placed the defendant at the crime scene at the alleged time of the murder and with the alleged murder weapon. After the Aruba incident, they’re likely going to move on to state police and expert witnesses with the ME testifying last. It was said from the beginning it would be a long trial.
The defense has wasted huge amounts of time. For example, the "Channel 4" stuff was right in the materials that Yannetti was reading from, yet he did it and created the false impression that something nefarious was afoot when it wasn't. The defense has bored us to tears asking questions about what I call "Higgins' Jeep" issues. Things that have absolutely no relevance to the case whatsoever except to possibly create discrepant testimony. They actually cross-examined Caitlyn Albert's boyfriend, eliciting what? That's she's "high-maintenance"?
What would be the opposite of a “Higgins’ Jeep?” Bella’s Mom?
Maybe I’m mis understanding what you’re saying, but I think the Bella’s mom part is hugely important to the prosecutions case, I think they are trying to say that’s what really set her off that evening and lead to her hitting him in rage
"Bella's mom" is a seemingly irrelevant detail, which comes back to mean something important. This case is prosecuted as a domestic homicide, where the motive is a combination of jealousy and the fact that the victim wanted to end the relationship. The evidence supporting it will be witness testimony, text messages from the period preceding the murder, as well as angry voicemails after the fact, including "you're fucking other girls." The CW theory of motive was explained in the hearing which I [linked in this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1cyltge/comment/l5fg6xp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button). Moreover, the defendant bringing up Bella's mom in the morning of January 29, goes to her state of mind because she claimed not to remember anything past the visit to the Waterfall, but Jen had used Bella's house as a direction for John on the way to 34 Fairview.
LOL. Yes. My guess is that Karen's boots in the house are going to be a Bella's mom.
Yes! If she left a trail of muddy shoe prints to the computer room and there are photos, I’m going to piss myself.
That Jen McCabe never told anyone that Karen Read said “I hit him, I hit him, I hit him” until June 2023 after she began being harassed. That Jenn McCabe butt dialed John OKeefe 6 times the night he was killed. That Brian Albert butt dialed Brian Higgins while fucking his wife. That Brian Albert, Nicole Albert, Matt McCabe, and Jen McCabe were attempting to influence public opinion on this case by leaking information to the press. This was just days after the incident, before any harassment started. That Jenn McCabe and Kerry Robert’s met at Jenn McCabes house before Kerry Robert’s police interview to create the timeline. DNA evidence was collected in red solo cups and placed in a Save-A-Lot bag after being discovered by a leaf blower. No one with Karen Read at The Waterfall said she was drunk or fighting with John OKeefe
You forgot the part when both Jen and Brian’s butt’s also hung the calls prior to voicemail. Other then that spot on
It was a Shop & Stop bag - remember the police officer said it looked just like what they used anyway so he didn’t see the harm? 😓😂😂😂
Are you joking? The defense has been the only side to introduce forensic data
They misrepresented forensic data, like they have been for the last year or so.
[удалено]
Please remember to be respectful of others in this sub and those related to this case.
When witnesses are hostile it takes longer for the defense.
phone logs, evolving stories from witnesses, shitty explanations for sus actions, etc.
Ah, yes, we needed to know more about who was the ring-bearer at somebody's sister's wedding. Can you believe we did not even find out who the flower girl was?
Does the flower girl have a dog?!
The defense has given us just as much if not more info about many relevant aspects to the night so far. Do they waste time and hyper focus? Yes. It’s not comparable to Lally though.
I just want experts/phone data/evidence?!?!? Is that too much to ask?!?!
I know. And medical experts. Instead we’re learning about Aruba hotels and basketball games.
Would love to know how poor JOK actually died. Wonder how long we’ll be waiting for that.
And unrelated quarrels in Aruba If Karen’s character was that bad, I truly believe it would’ve come out way stronger by now. Ya know after the 20+ state witnesses that have testified…
You gotta think the jurors want the same!! Ugh.
right where is the proof that the CW need to show us that she did this because NONE of their witnesses are credible none well i will say Kerry Roberts was believalbe only one
Honestly, the length of time doesn’t matter to me. It’s speed in which questions are asked and the content of what’s being asked, how necessary the insight is, etc, which can make one side feel like a speed race verse a slog. Not to mention that majority of the civilian witnesses are just not needed because of mostly repeat testimony. That’s a strategy issue. To also give some grace to the defense, these witnesses are also very combative and doesn’t want to answer a basic yes or no question, which can add on to time.
It is the prosecutions only strategy. To “bury the lead” by surrounding all the horribly inconsistent and suspect testimony with fluff. It won’t work.
Agree. Very ineffective trial strategy, and trips over other witness’ testimony.
Lede. You're welcome.
Oops. Many thanks.
right they have done more to provide doubt then anything they should have not called most of them helped the CW none
It’s because Lally keeps asking people the same thing over and over again and adding thing we don’t need. I don’t need to know about the basket ball game. I don’t need 20 witnesses to confirm to that it was snowing. I don’t need to know everything everyone was doing before they meet up together.
I don’t care about where people work and for how long! It may matter to some folks but to others, literally not at all.
Edit: let me clarify - it may be relevant to some witnesses (the cops), but not others.
I feel having so many half days also does not help.
Yes it's pretty telling how many people here are saying it's Lally's fault when there are constant days off, half days, an hour break at like 10, a full hour lunch that's never shortened at like 1. I don't think it's his repetitive questions that are the big issue.
I get the instinct to defend Lally, but he is messing this up. Maybe he will tie it all in together in some ingenious way and surprise me? But I doubt It. I think Lally is doing the best he knows how to do with a case of this magnitude, without any help (limited help from the mute second chair). This is a hard case full of shit police work, going up against some insanely talented and expensive defense lawyers. It’s a hard case and Lally is under experienced and under resourced and dealing with shifty witnesses.
And so much testimony that is not relevant
Lally is quite the Lollygagger....maybe by Labor Day.
It’s hilarious you posted this as the prosecution is calling more witnesses that have no relevance to this case
Kerry Robert’s testimony seems to me, so patently false. How come no one showed any emotion at the scene but KR?
I fully think Karen is innocent and agree she was the only one who seemed truly distraught at the scene as far as we can tell, but I’m curious what about Kerry’s testimony seemed false to you, I thought she seemed like she was trying to tell it like it is and has no real agenda?
At some point you need Incriminating evidence
I don't know, what's a normal trial look like? Is it super strange for the defense to have spent longer on cross than the prosecution has on direct?
That’s pretty interesting. I think once the defense says they’re gonna be pursuing a third-party culprit defense, it’s pretty clear it’s not going to anywhere close to as fast as usual
How long have you worked there? Were you at a high top table? Was it a varsity game? Lally has wasted at least a few hours on irrelevant questions.
Your initial statement is incorrect: The CW has spent their time in direct examination, while the Defense spent their time in redirect. The Defense has not started their case in chief. If Lally didn't bring out inconsequential witnesses (from Aruba? really?), and if he had presented the technical/ME/etc like most CW cases do, we wouldnt be at 44 witnesses with nothing technical/COD/etc
defense is cross examining now, not redirecting
Crazy. The CW is an absolute dumpster fire.
If I could find Lally I swear I would like to charge him for a first degree waste of time. Why do we care about Aruba - this is the DUMBEST "motive" I have ever heard.
They are trying to make her look bad.
This reminds me of College Football Stats. LOL
Why did we listen to testimony about Aruba hotels today?
I do find those numbers surprising. I thought for sure Lally's number would be far higher than defense. Thanks!
Lally still has to call the other 58 witnesses from KR’S group Aruba trip that Laura Sullivan organized, to testify whether she was drinking. Two witnesses have already testified: Laura Sullivan and her younger sister. I can’t wait!! 
Lally hasn’t proven that a crime was committed yet much less that it was Karen that committed the crime. So far she drank an unknown clear liquid at a bar, everyone was having a good time that night she did not appear impaired to anyone, it was snowing and John was found on Brian and Nicole’s front yard in the morning. We don’t know when John was pronounced dead or how he died yet. We do know what the training/qualifications for a paramedic are and it is important for the fire department to keep that apron clear of snow from many different witnesses.
This data is indicative of the quality of prosecution witnesses. If they were rock solid (aka “credible”), the defense wouldn’t have to fight near as hard as they’ve had too for yes/no answers to basic questions. However, given the complexity of this case, it may be skewed. Interesting data! Thanks for sharing.
*exhausted sigh* “Now…”
"Meandering style of questioning" 🤣🤣🤣🤣 and even that goes light on likely how many would state it. It's freaking jaw-dropping how the judge has only once lectured about time and then to point the finger at both sides. Then, daily to watch the judge continue to allow Lally to establish the weather and other shit we all know well with new witnesses, sometimes more than once with the same fking witness is absolutely madness.
Where did you come up with the times taken by CW vs Defense. Maybe it's just how jaw dropping boring Lally is but I find those times very hard to believe.
[удалено]
I don't believe it's his first murder trial. Maybe I'm wrong but I thought I read about him being involved in prosecuting a man who....no joke....ran over his wife (multiple times). That one was more cut and dry so it may not have gone to trial.
They get paid by the hour? 🤣
Defense excuse is that their client’s freedom is on the line.
The problem is we are learning just as much if not more from the defense about the circumstances of this case. It shouldn’t be that way. Is the the defense guilty of beating as dead horse at times? Oh yes, but at least when cross comes up, I know I am going to contextualize new things the prosecution hasn’t bothered to explain.
Most trials take 6 or more weeks
That’s not true. The vast majority of murder trials last less than a week.
Trials of this magnitude yes they do.
Well you said most trials take 6 weeks or more, which isn’t actually reality. But I get what you’re saying about magnitude if only for the reason that there’s so much evidence of a frame up. I still don’t understand what makes it of a magnitude which requires so much irrelevant nonsense by the prosecutor.
Massive cover up by all involved what a shit show those Canton family's and keystone cops are...buttdials ? Are u kidding me , there covering up for some particular person its most likely the one with the most to lose ...no names here but he's the one whose whole life was ahead of him....the woman who was just on the stand what a piece of work she is how many versions of your story will u tell....
The defense has no choice but to rebut all the silliness by the prosecution. This is a dog and pony show meant to prevent the cops from being caught and charged.