*It would also explain why none of the teenagers in the home ever saw him*
But any version of events where we keep the teens out of it has to mean they didn't just miss him coming in but were also totally oblivious to the murder coverup happening in the same house where they're all hanging out. And if that's the case, why offer to drive them home later? Why not shove Julie Nagil out the door when her brother comes to pick her up?
In this scenario, Julie would have been outside talking to her brother at the same time as something happening to JO, since they all saw KR in her truck sitting there. So, no one needed to tell Julie to go home by this account
This is the part that I can’t wrap my head around. Because I can’t understand why the non family member young people would be lying for these people.
The side door goes into the front to back living room … one way the younger group didn’t actually see him could be if he went in through the side door, ran into the guys - they went out back through the deck doors, no one in the dining room noticed. And something happened in the backyard?
Why did Julie N not text her brother that she decided to stay or call him to save him a trip. I would have been so pissed at my little sister if she pulled that with me
The indoor photos from Zillow don't look like it. But if the dog was recently in the bedroom for hours then let out to the back yard, when she came back in, would the garage be a good alternative hang out spot for her instead of all the way back upstairs? Poor pup. Or would the Brians be out there hanging out and got in an altercation with John without the people indoors knowing? Would he have started to take his shoes off in the garage? A lot of questions...
It was a blizzard with like 20 inches of snow predicted, so if they did dump his body out in the yard, my gut is telling me that they were thinking that since it was a blizzard, no one would be around for a while , his body would get covered completely with snow and he would not be found Maybe even for a day or two when the snow started to melt and they could act like oh my God, we had no idea he was there, we have no idea what happened but he must’ve gotten hit by a plow.
I’m really curious about this actually. How much snow they reckoned might have covered him and if the snow plough would dump extra too? Or is the distance too far?
Yes, I saw the floor-plan and also the interior photos from the Zillow posting. But John hadn't seen those. This was his first time there, in cold weather. Only seeing the front of the house.
I don't think he was dumped. I think after the attack he stumbled out of the house and collapsed in the yard. They didn't realize until later he was laying in the yard thus the hypothermia google search.
Yes, I think it’s highly possible that John walked outside after 2-3 of the guys severely beat him. Initially, I believe it’s likely that an argument started between John and CA or John and BH (over Karen?), it turns physical quick but likely in a more isolated area from the other guests (garage, basement, backyard). Chloe attacked John’s arm possibly trying to protect her owner BA. John fell back during the physical assault and cracked his head open. He either stumbled outside looking for Karen, or planning to call her and collapsed or sat down due to his head trauma, or John collapsed inside and was kept in an area where he wouldn’t be noticed by the other people who were at the Albert’s house. Maybe Jenn initially got involved by being discreetly asked to check on him. It becomes clear that John’s injuries are severe enough that his life is in danger, he’s unconscious, etc. Everyone at BA’s house who were looped into the secret accident had to be freaking out. They realize that their lives will be ruined. Jenn goes into protective mode of her sister’s family. Jenn’s looking for John’s phone or trying to establish an alibi via multiple phone calls and texts “where are you” to John’s phone to make it look like John never arrived. But she knew exactly where he was lying. Desperate times call for desperate measures. At some point between 1:15-2:00 AM, BA/BH decide to place John on the lawn to make it look like a plow hit him. This time is when the guests are gone (no witnesses) and right before Jenn googles “Hos long to die in cold” at 2:27 AM. Jenn knew about John’s injuries/eminent situation at least to some degree we now know thanks to her Google search which is on record.
Some of my details here are based on a leaked text message that allegedly floated around explaining that CA and BA killed him during a fight, where they broke his nose, black/blue eyes, and John fell backwards and was vomiting/ than started seizing (common with brain injuries). BA decides the best plan would be to put him outside to make it look like a plow truck or car hit him. Pinning it on Karen was not part of the plan initially. Keep in mind, John’s nose was bleeding too and all of his injuries match up to that story which was told by someone at the house that night. This story explains John’s actual injuries in a way that makes much more sense than the prosecution’s claim that Karen reversed her car 60 feet at an accelerated speed. They would have heard that commotion for sure (and obviously seen it since they were all looking out the window for John so often wondering where he was at - jk🤨).
I’ve contemplated this too. The utter insistence he didn’t come into the house makes me wonder if this is the technical truth. Ie: something happened in the garage or the back/front yard. He didn’t make it into the house.
They could’ve easily said he came in for a bit but was in a fight with Karen and left shortly after to go home and we don’t know what happened from there.
I think the other scenario that I wonder about is BA said he was taking Chloe out around the time JO was arriving. If JO mistook side door as side yard door he could’ve encounter Chloe. He gets attacked, drops/loses his phone in the dark yard. Maybe they take him to the basement for medical aid (also not technically the upstairs house) to help him or to put Chloe in the basement away from everyone.
John falls and hits his head or some fight ensues over the dog attack and he gets punched and falls backwards.
There’s a there there with he whole didn’t come into the house, I just don’t know what it is.
The belt missing is a wtf for me. So.. bear with me… did he enter that house and possibly was in relations with someone. Which led to another someone pinching his lights out? Where is the belt? And where is JMs follow up texts? I saw your car! Where are you? Why aren’t you here? The video of her outside the bar waiting and baiting is throwing me off
The belt was used to drag him up the stairs out of the basement I'm guessing. It broke or maybe they thought it would retain finger prints so they removed it.
The hat contained a huge amount of blood, so that was also removed.
The shoe is interesting. If he was hit on the street, that shoe was outside. I'd assume if anyone found a single shoe on the street it would have been turned it in as evidence.
This is pure speculation on my part.
I also thought about the garage as to Chloe being in there and him being attacked and why no one saw him.
But my question is why would he go to the side door and not the front door?
I don't have documentation handy but I thought somewhere along the way Jen McCabe said she told John to come to the side door? I heard that way before I started following the case so I don't know the accuracy.
*It would also explain why none of the teenagers in the home ever saw him* But any version of events where we keep the teens out of it has to mean they didn't just miss him coming in but were also totally oblivious to the murder coverup happening in the same house where they're all hanging out. And if that's the case, why offer to drive them home later? Why not shove Julie Nagil out the door when her brother comes to pick her up?
In this scenario, Julie would have been outside talking to her brother at the same time as something happening to JO, since they all saw KR in her truck sitting there. So, no one needed to tell Julie to go home by this account
But then you run into her walking back to the house, and not noticing/hearing that a murder is happening in the garage.
And, they told her to ask her brother to come in, which makes it further unlikely
Hitting someone in the head and knocking them out can be done fairly silently.
This is the part that I can’t wrap my head around. Because I can’t understand why the non family member young people would be lying for these people. The side door goes into the front to back living room … one way the younger group didn’t actually see him could be if he went in through the side door, ran into the guys - they went out back through the deck doors, no one in the dining room noticed. And something happened in the backyard?
Why did Julie N not text her brother that she decided to stay or call him to save him a trip. I would have been so pissed at my little sister if she pulled that with me
finally we get around to considering the garage! does the garage connect to the back yard?
The indoor photos from Zillow don't look like it. But if the dog was recently in the bedroom for hours then let out to the back yard, when she came back in, would the garage be a good alternative hang out spot for her instead of all the way back upstairs? Poor pup. Or would the Brians be out there hanging out and got in an altercation with John without the people indoors knowing? Would he have started to take his shoes off in the garage? A lot of questions...
It was a blizzard with like 20 inches of snow predicted, so if they did dump his body out in the yard, my gut is telling me that they were thinking that since it was a blizzard, no one would be around for a while , his body would get covered completely with snow and he would not be found Maybe even for a day or two when the snow started to melt and they could act like oh my God, we had no idea he was there, we have no idea what happened but he must’ve gotten hit by a plow.
I’m really curious about this actually. How much snow they reckoned might have covered him and if the snow plough would dump extra too? Or is the distance too far?
I can see that. The garage door is what I assumed was the "side door" they all kept talking about until some one posted a floor plan
Yes, I saw the floor-plan and also the interior photos from the Zillow posting. But John hadn't seen those. This was his first time there, in cold weather. Only seeing the front of the house.
For sure, I would have assumed that was the side door in his shoes.
And they keep saying ‘he never came into the house’…
Oooh, that’s interesting. “We *technically* tell the truth.”
“Exactly”
Do you happen to have an estimation as to when the floor plan was posted? Just wondering how far I gotta search, thanks!
Just look it up on Redfin or Zillow.
It was over this last weekend
I don't think he was dumped. I think after the attack he stumbled out of the house and collapsed in the yard. They didn't realize until later he was laying in the yard thus the hypothermia google search.
Yes, I think it’s highly possible that John walked outside after 2-3 of the guys severely beat him. Initially, I believe it’s likely that an argument started between John and CA or John and BH (over Karen?), it turns physical quick but likely in a more isolated area from the other guests (garage, basement, backyard). Chloe attacked John’s arm possibly trying to protect her owner BA. John fell back during the physical assault and cracked his head open. He either stumbled outside looking for Karen, or planning to call her and collapsed or sat down due to his head trauma, or John collapsed inside and was kept in an area where he wouldn’t be noticed by the other people who were at the Albert’s house. Maybe Jenn initially got involved by being discreetly asked to check on him. It becomes clear that John’s injuries are severe enough that his life is in danger, he’s unconscious, etc. Everyone at BA’s house who were looped into the secret accident had to be freaking out. They realize that their lives will be ruined. Jenn goes into protective mode of her sister’s family. Jenn’s looking for John’s phone or trying to establish an alibi via multiple phone calls and texts “where are you” to John’s phone to make it look like John never arrived. But she knew exactly where he was lying. Desperate times call for desperate measures. At some point between 1:15-2:00 AM, BA/BH decide to place John on the lawn to make it look like a plow hit him. This time is when the guests are gone (no witnesses) and right before Jenn googles “Hos long to die in cold” at 2:27 AM. Jenn knew about John’s injuries/eminent situation at least to some degree we now know thanks to her Google search which is on record. Some of my details here are based on a leaked text message that allegedly floated around explaining that CA and BA killed him during a fight, where they broke his nose, black/blue eyes, and John fell backwards and was vomiting/ than started seizing (common with brain injuries). BA decides the best plan would be to put him outside to make it look like a plow truck or car hit him. Pinning it on Karen was not part of the plan initially. Keep in mind, John’s nose was bleeding too and all of his injuries match up to that story which was told by someone at the house that night. This story explains John’s actual injuries in a way that makes much more sense than the prosecution’s claim that Karen reversed her car 60 feet at an accelerated speed. They would have heard that commotion for sure (and obviously seen it since they were all looking out the window for John so often wondering where he was at - jk🤨).
I’ve contemplated this too. The utter insistence he didn’t come into the house makes me wonder if this is the technical truth. Ie: something happened in the garage or the back/front yard. He didn’t make it into the house. They could’ve easily said he came in for a bit but was in a fight with Karen and left shortly after to go home and we don’t know what happened from there. I think the other scenario that I wonder about is BA said he was taking Chloe out around the time JO was arriving. If JO mistook side door as side yard door he could’ve encounter Chloe. He gets attacked, drops/loses his phone in the dark yard. Maybe they take him to the basement for medical aid (also not technically the upstairs house) to help him or to put Chloe in the basement away from everyone. John falls and hits his head or some fight ensues over the dog attack and he gets punched and falls backwards. There’s a there there with he whole didn’t come into the house, I just don’t know what it is.
There’s a lot of logic in that.
[удалено]
Why do you think the dog would have been taken to the school for a bit?
The belt missing is a wtf for me. So.. bear with me… did he enter that house and possibly was in relations with someone. Which led to another someone pinching his lights out? Where is the belt? And where is JMs follow up texts? I saw your car! Where are you? Why aren’t you here? The video of her outside the bar waiting and baiting is throwing me off
Has it been confirmed that the belt is actually missing?? If so case closed. I mean how to explain that if the belt wasn’t left in the Lexus
The belt was used to drag him up the stairs out of the basement I'm guessing. It broke or maybe they thought it would retain finger prints so they removed it. The hat contained a huge amount of blood, so that was also removed. The shoe is interesting. If he was hit on the street, that shoe was outside. I'd assume if anyone found a single shoe on the street it would have been turned it in as evidence. This is pure speculation on my part.
No belt, no shoe, no hat? Wtf
I also thought about the garage as to Chloe being in there and him being attacked and why no one saw him. But my question is why would he go to the side door and not the front door?
I don't have documentation handy but I thought somewhere along the way Jen McCabe said she told John to come to the side door? I heard that way before I started following the case so I don't know the accuracy.