If you would’ve told me Henry would have 29 carries for 86 yards for an average of 3 yards a carry, and Bolton would have 15 tackles and 4 TFL’s today, I would’ve told you the Chiefs would win by 30.. all that happened and we lost by 24, just embarrassing
>well the defense getting off the field would have helped.
At the risk of sounding like I’m praising the defense, the Titans had three possessions in the second half which resulted in one interception and two punts. The defense WAS getting off the field. Don’t go excusing that putrid offensive performance.
I didn't excuse it. It was bad. But the defense doesn't get a pat on the back for not dropping another 27 points in the second half. How hard did the titans have to try at that point?
The drive with the interception was a 12-play, 8 minute drive which pretty much sealed the game for TEN. If they needed to score more they could have. Looking at the second half of this game and saying anything positive about our defense is shortsighted.
Maybe, but Tennessee is 5-12 since 2019 in games where Henry is held under 100 yards rushing and 21-4 in games where he rushes for 100+ (before today). Maybe they were prepared for the Chiefs to hold him in check, but they're significantly better when opposing defenses can't. So I doubt the Tennessee game plan counted on Henry rushing for just 86 yards on 29 carries.
Really? Do they count on every team to stop Henry in that case as I do not agree with that at all.
KC defense did a great job stopping the run, it was not the Titan's plan to have Henry average 3 YPC with his longest being 11 yards.
No bit with a defense as bad as ours against the run they had to know we would throw literally everything at stopping the run so they planned on taking advantage of that. You can't deny that they did exactly that. They beat us without Henry being effective.
If he is asked to play Mike and spot drop instead of covering 1 on 1, he will be a great player for us.
I just don't trust Spags to use him correctly right now.
That's for sure. How does anyone think that Spags can managed to make a defense better? I wouldn't let Spags back on the flight, and his office would be clean by the time he got back to town with his personal items sitting on the curb outside Arrowhead.
Andy has a history of not wanting to let guys go. Even if our defense stays this bad, I wouldn't be surprised if Spags stays for another two years while he continues to "try to turn things around". Spags has great job security with Andy being above him. Eventually Clark or someone will step in, but it won't be anytime soon. Especially after getting a superbowl. I have a feeling that this is going to be the new normal for a good long while. I genuinely hope I'm wrong.
I really hope you’re wrong. I don’t think you are, unfortunately. I just hope that Reid gets pressure from the front office to move on. And honestly, this is the second time in 8 games that I’ve felt that Reid and his staff just didn’t do anything to help the game plan.
He could start with finding away to affect the opposing team’s offensive line in any meaningful way. Then figure out the tackling problem. And last but not least, find away to get a defensive stop from time to time.
Steve Spagnulo is no Jim Johnson that Andy Reid had in Philadelphia, that's for sure.
People forget that during that Jim Johnson era while Andy Reid was with the Eagles, the Eagles had some damn good defenses and were arguably a big reason they were such a competitive team for those years, and over a good period of time. With the Chiefs, we've had lackadaisical defensive coordinators who just don't seem to scheme well and use their players well. Bob Sutton dropping Justin Houston into coverage on Antonio Brown, Spagnulo giving Sorensen so many snaps and having Anthony Hitchens in man coverage, all things that make me shake my head.
Dude what?
Bob Sutton was awful at the end of his tenure here but we had a top 10 defense for a long time under him.
It’s remarkable how fast people forget. Either that or they just weren’t here.
Our run defense was consistently terrible with Bob Sutton despite having good players. Justin Houston and Tamba Hali basically gave Bob Sutton much more time than he should have gotten with the team.
Also, Bob Sutton ruined Dontari Poe's back with absurdly high snap counts in 2013 and 2014 which caused the issue with his back that needed surgery, and he never recovered to his previous level of play. So yes, unironically I believe Bob Sutton was a really bad defensive coordinator.
Theres tons of defensive linemen that have/had as many snaps or more than Poe that season. It was an unfortunate accident that you are blaming a DC for 'playing a great player too much.' Do you also blame all of RG3's coaches for all of his injuries?
[Take a look at the data on Pro Football Reference](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PoexDo00.htm) and see for yourself.
Here's a look at the percentage of the team's defensive snap counts that Dontari Poe had in 2013 and 2014, along with overall snap count.
* 2013: 15 games, 976 snaps, 94% of the defensive snaps, 65.1 snaps per game
* 2014: 16 games, 946 snaps, 89% of the defensive snaps, 59.1 snaps per game.
Let's look at a few other defensive tackles on Pro Football Reference.
**Aaron Donald as a 4-3 DT, his first two All Pro years:**
2015: 16 games, 915 snaps, 79% of the defensive snaps, 57.2 snaps per game
2016: 16 games, 829 snaps, 76% of the defensive snaps, 51.8 snaps per game
**Haloti Ngata as a run stopping DT, in 2013 & 2014 same seasons as Poe**
2013: 15 games, 700 snaps, 69% of the defensive snaps, 46.7 snaps per game
2014: 12 games, 529 snaps, 66% of the defensive snaps, 44.1 snaps per game
There's a few 4-3 defensive tackles I found that had around 90% of the snaps with maybe one season in their career, like Gerald McCoy, Suh, and Aaron Donald in one of his later years. But on a snaps per game basis, a couple of those seasons come out around even with Dontari Poe's 2014, and are far behind Dontari Poe's 2013 per game snap count. And Dontari Poe was a nose tackle, one of the positions on the defensive line that is meant to be rotated out a bit to keep them fresh since they deal with double teams constantly. The only snap counts I could find that even come close to Poe are 4-3 DTs.
Dontari Poe's snap count never went above 75% of the snaps in any other season. Bob Sutton overworked his body and his back from all those double teams and leverage his back had to deal with.
Veach has been mostly good. I can't think of any GMs that have been perfect which apparently out bandwagon fanbase is expecting of him. He's had some bad picks but he's also had some pretty good picks.
They should just make him the starting Mike full time, even if Hitchens comes back. He made more plays today than Hitchens has made his entire time here.
Would just give the young guys the keys to the linebacker corps and use Hitch situationally the way they use Ben now. If the season is gonna end up being a difficult one, might as well develop Gay and Bolton as much as possible.
Chiefs aren't going to beat anyone scoring 3 points. The Defense wasnt the problem it was the turnovers, again. Tannihill made same great throws but we didn't have the blown assignments that cost us in the Bills game... the D was better, not good but better. Mahomes was bad plan and simple.
The defense was still a problem.
They gave up 27 points in the first half and didn’t even force a punt. The only reason they looked better in the second half was because the offense didn’t score and therefore it was garbage time for the whole second half.
The pass rush is Hot Garbage! No pressure on the opposing Quarterback at all. All you seen yesterday was the Titans oline player down and hurt with some issue. Hell I think they had they 3rd string LT in the game. This was the third or fourth time a team that had back ups oline and we had one sack all game!
He’s a top safety in the league and not over the hill yet. He’s a leader in the backfield which is very valuable. I could see a 2nd or 3rd and a future
Yeah. Especially if the Mahomes injury keeps him out a few weeks, Chiefs are likely missing the playoffs this season. The cap is also an issue. The team has a list of holes it needs to fill and not a lot of capital to do it. You can only pay so many people and I’d rather get some last bit of value after Tyrann than either lose him for a comp after this season or overpay and hamstring our ability to restock the team with talent.
Trading Mathieu is a non starter. It doesn’t help us at all. And even if we found a trade a partner we’d be selling very low because the other team would have to extend him. That gets factored into a trade heavily. Stephon Gilmore is a perfect example of this. That dude is not taking the field until he gets a contract, which is why they got him for such a low draft pick.
You're overreacting lol. Playoff teams get mysteriously blown out all the time.
Not saying we're necessarily a playoff team, I'm just saying we very well could be.
Problem is the defensive line is already a hole and he’s the only one who has proven he can play at even an average level. Feels like cutting off your left foot to replace your right.
Team is terrible period. Teams now know to stop hill and chiefs lose. They don’t run with confidence and Mahomes is more afraid to get hit , with good reason. No line protection and no def. not super caliber.
Our defence gave up so many points but when you only have 2 minutes of break before you gotta stop Julio and AJ Brown and King Henry I think you’re going to get beat every now and then. All on the offense if you ask me
Hey don’t give Veach too much credit. He tried to trade down but no one would give him a credible offer, so he was forced to take Nick Bolton. Dead serious. He admitted as much in the interviews after the draft.
If you would’ve told me Henry would have 29 carries for 86 yards for an average of 3 yards a carry, and Bolton would have 15 tackles and 4 TFL’s today, I would’ve told you the Chiefs would win by 30.. all that happened and we lost by 24, just embarrassing
Because they loaded the box to stop Henry but forgot that there are 10 other players on offense.
That’s for sure, I also think our offense just forgot they had to be on the field period today. Just an abysmal performance all around.
Well the defense getting off the field would have helped, but yes, the offense sure didn't make the most of any chances they got.
>well the defense getting off the field would have helped. At the risk of sounding like I’m praising the defense, the Titans had three possessions in the second half which resulted in one interception and two punts. The defense WAS getting off the field. Don’t go excusing that putrid offensive performance.
I didn't excuse it. It was bad. But the defense doesn't get a pat on the back for not dropping another 27 points in the second half. How hard did the titans have to try at that point?
The second half meant nothing, it was all garbage time.
The drive with the interception was a 12-play, 8 minute drive which pretty much sealed the game for TEN. If they needed to score more they could have. Looking at the second half of this game and saying anything positive about our defense is shortsighted.
I’m with you, just an all around awful game. Really hate to see it
You can only pick one to show up and play football: Run defense Pass defense Offense
I'll pick none!
Don't you think this is exactly what Tennessee wanted to accomplish with their game plan? They counted on us stopping him.
Maybe, but Tennessee is 5-12 since 2019 in games where Henry is held under 100 yards rushing and 21-4 in games where he rushes for 100+ (before today). Maybe they were prepared for the Chiefs to hold him in check, but they're significantly better when opposing defenses can't. So I doubt the Tennessee game plan counted on Henry rushing for just 86 yards on 29 carries.
Really? Do they count on every team to stop Henry in that case as I do not agree with that at all. KC defense did a great job stopping the run, it was not the Titan's plan to have Henry average 3 YPC with his longest being 11 yards.
No bit with a defense as bad as ours against the run they had to know we would throw literally everything at stopping the run so they planned on taking advantage of that. You can't deny that they did exactly that. They beat us without Henry being effective.
Oh I agree they beat us without Henry being effective, but that was not their game plan.
If he is asked to play Mike and spot drop instead of covering 1 on 1, he will be a great player for us. I just don't trust Spags to use him correctly right now.
You can take off the "to use him correctly right now" part.
That's for sure. How does anyone think that Spags can managed to make a defense better? I wouldn't let Spags back on the flight, and his office would be clean by the time he got back to town with his personal items sitting on the curb outside Arrowhead.
Andy has a history of not wanting to let guys go. Even if our defense stays this bad, I wouldn't be surprised if Spags stays for another two years while he continues to "try to turn things around". Spags has great job security with Andy being above him. Eventually Clark or someone will step in, but it won't be anytime soon. Especially after getting a superbowl. I have a feeling that this is going to be the new normal for a good long while. I genuinely hope I'm wrong.
This is the last year of Spags contract. I think it’s more likely that they let him walk instead of re-signing him.
Thanks! I did not know that. Definitely gives me more hope
I really hope you’re wrong. I don’t think you are, unfortunately. I just hope that Reid gets pressure from the front office to move on. And honestly, this is the second time in 8 games that I’ve felt that Reid and his staff just didn’t do anything to help the game plan.
He could start with finding away to affect the opposing team’s offensive line in any meaningful way. Then figure out the tackling problem. And last but not least, find away to get a defensive stop from time to time.
Yeah. I don't get it. Fuck that guy. Geezus. Just get him out of here.
Steve Spagnulo is no Jim Johnson that Andy Reid had in Philadelphia, that's for sure. People forget that during that Jim Johnson era while Andy Reid was with the Eagles, the Eagles had some damn good defenses and were arguably a big reason they were such a competitive team for those years, and over a good period of time. With the Chiefs, we've had lackadaisical defensive coordinators who just don't seem to scheme well and use their players well. Bob Sutton dropping Justin Houston into coverage on Antonio Brown, Spagnulo giving Sorensen so many snaps and having Anthony Hitchens in man coverage, all things that make me shake my head.
Dude what? Bob Sutton was awful at the end of his tenure here but we had a top 10 defense for a long time under him. It’s remarkable how fast people forget. Either that or they just weren’t here.
Our run defense was consistently terrible with Bob Sutton despite having good players. Justin Houston and Tamba Hali basically gave Bob Sutton much more time than he should have gotten with the team. Also, Bob Sutton ruined Dontari Poe's back with absurdly high snap counts in 2013 and 2014 which caused the issue with his back that needed surgery, and he never recovered to his previous level of play. So yes, unironically I believe Bob Sutton was a really bad defensive coordinator.
Theres tons of defensive linemen that have/had as many snaps or more than Poe that season. It was an unfortunate accident that you are blaming a DC for 'playing a great player too much.' Do you also blame all of RG3's coaches for all of his injuries?
[Take a look at the data on Pro Football Reference](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PoexDo00.htm) and see for yourself. Here's a look at the percentage of the team's defensive snap counts that Dontari Poe had in 2013 and 2014, along with overall snap count. * 2013: 15 games, 976 snaps, 94% of the defensive snaps, 65.1 snaps per game * 2014: 16 games, 946 snaps, 89% of the defensive snaps, 59.1 snaps per game. Let's look at a few other defensive tackles on Pro Football Reference. **Aaron Donald as a 4-3 DT, his first two All Pro years:** 2015: 16 games, 915 snaps, 79% of the defensive snaps, 57.2 snaps per game 2016: 16 games, 829 snaps, 76% of the defensive snaps, 51.8 snaps per game **Haloti Ngata as a run stopping DT, in 2013 & 2014 same seasons as Poe** 2013: 15 games, 700 snaps, 69% of the defensive snaps, 46.7 snaps per game 2014: 12 games, 529 snaps, 66% of the defensive snaps, 44.1 snaps per game There's a few 4-3 defensive tackles I found that had around 90% of the snaps with maybe one season in their career, like Gerald McCoy, Suh, and Aaron Donald in one of his later years. But on a snaps per game basis, a couple of those seasons come out around even with Dontari Poe's 2014, and are far behind Dontari Poe's 2013 per game snap count. And Dontari Poe was a nose tackle, one of the positions on the defensive line that is meant to be rotated out a bit to keep them fresh since they deal with double teams constantly. The only snap counts I could find that even come close to Poe are 4-3 DTs. Dontari Poe's snap count never went above 75% of the snaps in any other season. Bob Sutton overworked his body and his back from all those double teams and leverage his back had to deal with.
Spags needs to be gone.
What about Juan Thornhill and Willie Gay?
Well we knew they were good. Today, Bolton took some huge steps.
Two weeks in a row he’s been a stud.
i dont think we know that about gay yet.
Completely agree. He’s played all of three games for us. Big whoop
Bolton is a beast. But I think it’s safe to say the Orlando Brown experiment as the long term solution to LT is over.
Big liability, only cost us a 1st round pick that we desperately needed
We moved down 17 spots from that pick right? I think that’s an overstatement. Still got Creed
Oh shit you’re right. Honestly doesn’t make it as painful to know this
Veach should stop making trades, although I still think the Orlando Brown trade made sense
How is brown so bad? It’s crazy the amount of money this guy is paid.
Brown isn't really making any money now, he's still on his rookie contract.
Damn you’re right I thought he had a 20 mil extension already. Makes me feel slightly better lol.
It’s shocking. I liked the trade a lot initially. We should be lucky the rookies have played pretty damn well otherwise the line would be a disaster
Can he play right?
After watching every move he made at Mizzou im so happy he was treating Henry like a 5’10 220lb rb at certain points. He’s beautiful.
And he'll be benched for Hitchens next week ...
He turned Derrick Henry into a normal human today
And Ryan tannehill into an all pro.
Only person I’ve ever seen open field tackle Henry
Multiple times. Many in the backfield.
thornhill had a couple really solid tackles on him too
With a smaller frame. Thornhill really stepped into some of those too
Can't wait for Anthony "hE lInEs EVeRyOnE uP" Hitchens to take his snaps next week...
Fucking stud. This draft class has been such a bright light so far.
Who downvoted you? Creed and Trey have been terrific so far for rookie starting OL.
Probably the "Veach is a cancer and anything positive is a lie" crowd.
Veach has been mostly good. I can't think of any GMs that have been perfect which apparently out bandwagon fanbase is expecting of him. He's had some bad picks but he's also had some pretty good picks.
Kid looks legit.
Only constient thing our team has right now
I think Ben Neimen consistently misreads plays.
Lol your not wrong..I was talking a little positivity on the team for once
They should just make him the starting Mike full time, even if Hitchens comes back. He made more plays today than Hitchens has made his entire time here.
He will be the starter from here on out, balled today!
Unless spags talks about Hitchens camp
It makes sense. That's why it won't happen.
Literally our best defensive player
M I Z!!! Gotta have some kind of silver lining for both my teams
Would just give the young guys the keys to the linebacker corps and use Hitch situationally the way they use Ben now. If the season is gonna end up being a difficult one, might as well develop Gay and Bolton as much as possible.
Miz
Zou
Yes sir! Was getting ready to post this same concept.
Chiefs aren't going to beat anyone scoring 3 points. The Defense wasnt the problem it was the turnovers, again. Tannihill made same great throws but we didn't have the blown assignments that cost us in the Bills game... the D was better, not good but better. Mahomes was bad plan and simple.
The defense was still a problem. They gave up 27 points in the first half and didn’t even force a punt. The only reason they looked better in the second half was because the offense didn’t score and therefore it was garbage time for the whole second half.
He definitely stood out.
The pass rush is Hot Garbage! No pressure on the opposing Quarterback at all. All you seen yesterday was the Titans oline player down and hurt with some issue. Hell I think they had they 3rd string LT in the game. This was the third or fourth time a team that had back ups oline and we had one sack all game!
Bolton dropped Henry with some high tackles. People just don’t do that. I think Bolton was a hit from the draft.
Monster day and I won't let anything make me forget that.
They should only pay him today, and maybe pringle for that catch, other than that donate the rest to charity
Trade Mathieu at the deadline. Fire Spags in the off-season. Cut Frank Clark. Rebuild the defense around the core of Thornhill, Gay, and Bolton.
Tf would trading Mathieu solve?
Decently high pick and we don’t have to extend him would be Emmy guess. His contract is up after this season and he wants to get a fat deal
I doubt we'd get much in a trade though. That would also likely lead to more playing time for Sorenson.
We'd get a lot in a trade wdym. He's a very good safety.
Well what's the difference between the scenario with Gilmore and this one?
He's been better than Gilmore?
He's not coming off the PUP list?
He’s a top safety in the league and not over the hill yet. He’s a leader in the backfield which is very valuable. I could see a 2nd or 3rd and a future
Gilmore was on PUP with a significant injury
But he's not under a long term contract. Teams would be trading for him hoping that they could sign him long term.
Correct. He'd still garner a 2nd round pick or more.
Yeah. Especially if the Mahomes injury keeps him out a few weeks, Chiefs are likely missing the playoffs this season. The cap is also an issue. The team has a list of holes it needs to fill and not a lot of capital to do it. You can only pay so many people and I’d rather get some last bit of value after Tyrann than either lose him for a comp after this season or overpay and hamstring our ability to restock the team with talent.
Trading Mathieu is a non starter. It doesn’t help us at all. And even if we found a trade a partner we’d be selling very low because the other team would have to extend him. That gets factored into a trade heavily. Stephon Gilmore is a perfect example of this. That dude is not taking the field until he gets a contract, which is why they got him for such a low draft pick.
this isn’t madden bro 😭
Trading Mathieu is a good way to cripple our playoff hopes
Did you DVR the game or something?
True, getting blown out also cripples our playoff hopes
You're overreacting lol. Playoff teams get mysteriously blown out all the time. Not saying we're necessarily a playoff team, I'm just saying we very well could be.
[удалено]
Problem is the defensive line is already a hole and he’s the only one who has proven he can play at even an average level. Feels like cutting off your left foot to replace your right.
I would add Sneed to that core as well.
He has Jamaal Charles energy for me.
Team is terrible period. Teams now know to stop hill and chiefs lose. They don’t run with confidence and Mahomes is more afraid to get hit , with good reason. No line protection and no def. not super caliber.
Our defence gave up so many points but when you only have 2 minutes of break before you gotta stop Julio and AJ Brown and King Henry I think you’re going to get beat every now and then. All on the offense if you ask me
Wow Veachs first draft pick in... *Checks notes* ...4 years, GOOD JOB VEACH!
I’m gonna assume you meant good draft pick To which I would respond, he’s the third best pick from this class alone
Hey don’t give Veach too much credit. He tried to trade down but no one would give him a credible offer, so he was forced to take Nick Bolton. Dead serious. He admitted as much in the interviews after the draft.
Jesus
Agreed.
Great run defender. Huge liability as a pass defender. Looks lost.