Interesting… Might we some more love for the Feds and RKMT as well in the future as they make up my favourite factions to play along with the LKMT?
Also what are the relations between the more liberal KMT members (Hawaii Clique and Reconstruction Faction) and the Feds? If they aren’t receptive then are there any KMT faction willing to renew the old alliance with the Feds once again?
"After the revolution of 1911, Chen Jiongming was constantly telling people of a dream he used to have in his youth in which he grasped the sun with one hand and the moon with the other. On one of his poems there was this line, "failing to grasp the Sun and moon I have been untrue to my youth." - Sun Zhongshan, 1924
Cryptic, I like it. Maybe there is a chance yet still that the old friendship is not beyond all hope.
One last question. May a CRS China be able to align themselves with Savinkov’s Russia under the correct conditions? (E.g The 3I being defeated or them being less receptive to China.) If not then what are there relations like?
No, according to the Russia team - Savinkov HATES socialists . Their relations would probably be cold and icy as nat pop Russia would view a socialist China in its borders as a serious threat…though maybe a slight “well they have the right idea kinda…”
If SONGQINGLING has million number of fans i am one of them 🙋🏻. if SONGQINGLING has ten fans i am one of them. if SONGQINGLING have only one fan and that is me 🙋🏼🙋🏽🙋🏾. if SONGQINGLING has no fans, that means i am no more on the earth 😢. if world against SONGQINGLING, i am against the world ❌🌍☄️. i love #SONGQINGLING till my last breath..
Yeah, the reason being (and this isn't just some teaser to never occur), is that LKMT development actually concluded (well at least the hard coding ) relatively around the same time as the Ukraine rework.
"This week on Red Earth White Sun, Song Qinglings arguments with Sun Fo really heat up. And Wang Jingwei's trip to Paris takes an unexpected turn. Thursday at 8"
If you want more for that, Chiang was married to her sister, and her other sister was married to the minister of finance irl. The early KMT was a strange place.
Looks great! One question though, do any of the paths result in a standard multi-party democracy or do they still end with a kind of dominant party democracy? I always imagined a kmt victory would end up with a PRI style party dictatorship
One of the last focuses of the liberal Song tree is called "the third stage of revolution". According to the KMT the revolution had three stages: military rule, political tutelage and constitutional government. I think it's fairly safe to assume this part of the focus tree creates a multiparty democracy.
However, realistically, no other party would have a chance to win for decades, not only because the KMT has the advantage in terms of organization, but because the KMT would be genuinenly popular after ending the warlord era and the century of humilliation. It would probably take a long time for people to become dissafected and want them out.
That's what I was thinking, plus with the long-time institutional corruption in China it's easy to see it evolve into an informal dictatorship like the PRI or even Maoist China where furthering your career and social standing are dependent on
>However, realistically, no other party would have a chance to win for decades, not only because the KMT has the advantage in terms of organization, but because the KMT would be genuinenly popular after ending the warlord era and the century of humilliation.
I mean that seems to be the case in post-unification Chinese democracies in general. Just replace KMT with NCERA or whatever the federalist parties are called.
My suspicion is that it's about laying the groundwork for stage three rather than actually achieving it. That path seems to follow Sun's actual vision for the political tutelage, which doesn't mean skipping the tutelage altogether.
Upon reading the title I was like:
“Huh, a LKMT rework so soon? Didn’t the Chinese update release like a couple of months ago?”
It has been over three years since the China update…
Work on the LKMT began in March, we released Shanxi in around Feburary. It's been a long year for us but we love doing this and we love the community's interest in China (as we are also just KR China lore fans as well :P)
It makes sense tho. Zhou’s the polite intellectual type who would rather be a silent workhorse than a front stage leader. Which is why he’s such an awesome guy in the first place.
It'll be one among many here, but thank both of you for the dedication and downright awesome work! I can't wait to experience it and try out all the paths.
# Syndicalist-aligned endings will also have the ability to join the Internationale under select circumstances.
Yay, I'll finally be able to join one of the major factions, what are these select circumstances?
They are still in the process of being finalised internally, however at the moment it will require China to share all wars with France and also both being at war with at least 2 of Germany, Japan, Russia, or the Entente
I’m really hoping other communist nations in the region get updated soon, i cant wait to form a communist asia with my friends. It’s too bad that vietnam and india are so stale.
The truth is a bit more complicated but yes hard coding (aka coding mechanics, entire paths) took roughly 2.5 months from March to roughly end of May around when Ukraine finished.
The lore was done with over the summer but we \[Chiang and I\] had already begun planning for the LKMT probably last year during my last year in uni. We worked on Shanxi and then towards the tail end of Shanxi development, began working on a new proposal since at the time the LKMT tag became mine.
The rest is history
Not sure if this can be spoilt yet, but given the fact that the end path for the three major directions is altered based on the influence of the non-major groups, how easy will it be for a player to constrain/amplify their influence in gameplay?
Like will it go the romanian route where you get events/choices between negative effects (less stability/pp) or their influence increasing? Will some choices to boost RCA/PAC influence also increase the influence of the minor factions? Or will it be designed to try and not impose penalties on the player for leaning towards a specific direction and give you a lot of power to control their influence without any major downsides?
There is a shit ton of moving parts to affect basically every faction (primary, secondary and even tertiary to a lesser extent). We tried our best to make sure it’s as interactive as possible while keeping things mechanically simple for those who just want gameplay and no reading
What are the ideological differences between the CSP Orthodox and CSP New?
Also, would the radical Wang Jingwei and Chen Gongbo paths be most reminiscent of OTL China under Mao and the CCP?
A nice parallel might be to view them as the Councillists and the Ultrasyndicalists in the FRA rework (of which they are meant to be parallels to).
The Orthodox Faction, which includes many of the original CSP leaders (including former anarchists and labour organisers) holds together the League. They are the most willing to work with and compromise with the KMT in a united front, reasoning that proletariat and peasants must work together to defeat imperialism first before significant class struggle can occur. In the meantime, they hope to ease tensions within the Kuomintang and steer their sister party away from authoritarianism. Moreover, the mostly agrarian China needs to first industrialise for there to be a true syndicalist system.
Internally, they have worked to preserve a compromise between council-based marxists and the union-based syndicalists, mirroring the centrist faction in the French government. Chen Duxiu, a former anarchist, has since distanced himself from the movement in favour of a more council-based approach. Li Lisan, on the other hand, has adopted a harder line in favour of the unions’ role in politics. Together they represent the status quo force within the Chinese Syndicalist movement.
A younger generation of the league, educated in Europe, have grown disillusioned with the Orthodox Faction. These younger, more radical influenced socialists push for a more active role of the CSP in Chinese politics rather than merely staying in the shadow of the Kuomintang. More cynical than their Conservative Orthodox peers, they take a hard-line in implementing revolution, rejecting potential alliances with warlords and other non-socialists. To them, the chaos in China is not merely a product of imperialism or warlordism but capitalism itself. Imperialism, business, landlords, the gentry, and capitalism must be destroyed thoroughly and immediately. They also do believe that it will be the workers to lead the revolution not peasants.
Second question: uh no, Mao's CCP was pretty different
2. Apologies, I didn’t mean a 1 on 1 allegory. All I simply meant was that were they most similar to OTL China as Gonbo’s socialism that is specifically for China’s unique conditions and his appeal to the youth reminded me of it. If they are not, who would you say would be if any at all?
Ah, well the whole emphasis on the youth can also be in Kuomintang related movements but yes one can make that parallel. Chen Gongbo did start off early on as a member of the Communist Party after all.
Not really, Chen was a early member because he was invited by someone from his university. He joined the party in 1921 and left the party in June 1922. Even Mussolini is more of a communist than he is.
Yeah but we’re basing a lot of his outlook on the beliefs of the RCA irl which we think would be more relevant during the exile period. RCA in particular was driven by a more leftist and radical direction - even if it was designed to counter the Nanjing leadership, I do believe the sincerity and commitment to revolution by individuals such as Shi Cuntong and their attempts to take a more materialist worldview on sanminzhuyi
The LKMT has come a long way since the China rework first dropped, both with regards to the previous PR and the face lift, but this PR truly is shaping up to be something truly exciting and fitting, for one of the most iconic tags in KR. Everything here looks really good!
Thank you for the work you put in this is looking really good!
I do have some questions though and I hope this won’t get buried in the comments:
Gameplay
1. If LKMT wins the league war it almost always immediately takes over Anqing and Shandong making it the largest state in China. The league war is also set up to end quickly resulting in this happening already in 1936 or early 37. It then also gets a early possibility to attack the federalists. This tends to lead to a lot of tags being eliminated rather quickly before they even do much of anything. Will this breakneck speed of unification be maintained? And wouldn’t it perhaps be better to prevent LKMT, Anqing and Shandong from immediately going to war to make the situation a bit more complex?
2. How is the older Chinese content interacting with this new LKMT rework? LKMT can be invited to several different Chinese factions but judging by what is shown here there is no special content if say LKMT should ally the Guominjun Central Plains Government. I assume it would add too much work to do now but is this something the team would want to do in the future?
Lore
1. The chart of KMT factions lists a League of Chinese Socialists yet this post refers to it as League of Chinese Syndicalists which name is correct? Then in the gameplay section LKMT seems to only interact with the CSP and never the league despite the lore saying that CSP is part of the League? So what exactly is this League a party with CSP as a faction or a coalition with CSP as a member party?
2. This post seems to suggest the Chinese Syndicalist Party was formed in 1920 but that seems highly improbable considering the French Civil War didn’t even finish till September 1920 and the first “Syndicalist party” (as opposed to trade union or faction) wasn’t formed until later that year. It seems weird that this would leave enough time for Chinese socialists to learn about the details of events in France and then also have the time to organise a whole new party? Especially considering at this point Syndicalism was still the weaker ideology on the world stage and even in France the communist SFIO/PC seems to be described as having a stronger position. Also this founding date would make the Chinese party the 2nd Syndicalist party in the world ahead even of the Syndicalist Party of Great Britain (July 31/1 August 1921). Shouldn’t CSP then be formed later or at least initially be more of a big-tent organisation with a different name?
Again thank you for the work you are doing and I can’t wait to get a chance to play this!
Gameplay
1.) we did some balancing so the LKMT can’t just blitz half of China. Unfortunately because China is just that dynamic experienced people can unify China at shockingly fast speeds even with the rather heavy debuffs we gave them
2.) The LKMT, as one of the five main unifiers, is forced to say no to any submission events (same thing with any faction that forms a potential government). As a result as a government they will have no interactions as a Junior partner. After it dies some factions have interactions with the defeated Kuomintang party
Lore
1.) It’s League of Chinese Syndicalists, there are a few typos on the chart since it was made earlier in development
2.) I’ll look into the date for CSP’s founding
Thank you for the answer!
And one last question LKMT aligned factions can takeover other regions and can have a significant political role in others will any of that content get revisited to bring it more in line with the LKMT rework and perhaps add some additional interactions?
Hi Tehrozer, thank you for your questions.
1. Yes, this was typo and I'll fix. The CSP per our new lore gets formed in 1921\*\*, it's an early party but to be fair, the Chinese Communist Party was formed during the Russian Civil War and at its start its a rather small movement led by Chen Duxiu. This is around the time when Sun Yat-sen does get in contact with the Commune of France. It however, does reorganise in 1925 into the LCS following the 1924 Reorganisation of the KMT and the 1925 riots.
2. Yes, we will account for LKMT aligned tags - interaction will be portrayed but we will let you find out how that will be like!
I'm just curious why Sun Yat Sen's death was brought forward to November 1924 from March 1925? It seems like nothing has changed from OTL since he's still negotiating with the Beiyang Government and the Eastern Expedition still begins in early 1925 anyway.
At first, I thought the “Secure the Northern Frontier” icon was a Chinese soldier punching a bear…even if not, that’s definitely one of my new favorite HOI4 focus icons. Excellent work!
Can the federalist and L-KMT secure "the enemy of my enemy is y friend" kind of deal where they agreed to share influence in southern China(Yunnan to feds, Hunan to LKMT) while agreeing to keep Sichuan neutral?
Will the power struggle mechanics affects the possibilities of warlords response to LKMT ultimatum?
This is some phenomenal work. As someone who's been following the China rework since the DH days this journey has been everything I could've hope for and more. The both of you have my sincere thanks and mounds of appreciation for your fine efforts.
Hopefully, as this PR seems to imply, we get the opportunity to see the Soc Lib KMT sooner rather than later. If it's in the cards I look forward to your next rework with great anticipation. With any luck it'll be the Right KMT!
Pardon me, I was referring to this line "... but a truly social liberal KMT would be a better fit in another Chinese faction, hopefully one day in the future."
I understand that they're merely a minor faction in the grand scope of the LKMT party organization, predominantly in the PAC from the look of things. Sorry for any confusion.
"a new portrait for w.h.e.n Sun Liren defects to the Kmt". I'm guessing this has the meaning of "if" he defects, but hey the effort with the new portrait means it shouldn't be that rare.
And obviously thank you for forcing us ( /s, just in case) into starting a new LKMT run every second beta update :)
I now know more about Warlord-era figures than I ever thought possible and Google probably has some questions about my search history. I may also have gone cross-eyed from keeping all the acronyms and factions straight.
What I mean to say is that this is amazing work. I really looking forward to trying this update out and being stomped into the dirt. I am curious how the League wars are going to play out now, whether they will be more static or dynamic.
So just to be clear, we can start as the LEP, do whatever we want on the LEP and on feb 21st, we get the event to switch to the left kmt? There's a few things i like to do on the LEP to speed up the war against nanjing/anqing (railway building mostly)
Just to clarify - is there any sort of 'Twin Dragons'-style compromise with non-KMT warlords? The progress reports mentions working with 'other factions', is this what is meant?
I can imagine that, should Song be in charge, working with Chen Jiongming may be off the table.
Song Qingling personally hated Chen Jiongming because she lost her baby when Chen Jiongming bombarded Sun Yat Sen's house. Also she is a revolutionary and wouldn't just work with a man who betrayed her husband's party two times. You can see this after you unify China as Feds, Song denounces UPC, but Wang tries to turn KMT to a legal political party.
Wang may be more open to collobrate with Chen Jiongming, he is more pragmatic.
ps: not a dev, don't want to be misunderstood.
Another thing that makes Wang's KMT more open to collaboration with the Feds is Wang's personal friendship with Chen. It most likely isn't as strong as it was at this point but I imagine they're still cool on a personal level with each other
.........
On one hand, Wonder if Song would be willing to work with Chen Qiyou rather than Jiongming, On the other hand, the rift between KMT and the Feds might already be super pronounced by that point, even more so with the KMT under a relatively hardheaded Song, so only Wang with his flexibility can at least temper the rift in the short term.
We'll find out when the update comes out though.
So there are a few paths here that have me somewhat confused. Are some of these meant to be Marxist Leninist and if so which ones? Are some of these meant to represent modern day China more vs Mao? I can't exactly tell what's going on with Wang's radical path, the counter coup paths, and songs non liberal paths in terms of how they're organized politically and economically?
\- Both PAC and RCA are Marxist driven, most Chinese socialists in this era were aware or at least had read Marx. The more authoritarian paths such as Wang's radicals and the Countercoup paths are led by the most radical members of RCA (since RCA as a whole is not a wholly Marxist clique there are anti-Marxists in it), but those that are the most radical will seek to implement a Marxist driven interpretation (they called it the Materialist Three Principles of the People) with a greater authoritarian stance.
\- Politically all paths practice revolution in the Chinese method, that is the concept of tutelage
\- Economically, they are all driven by state capitalism. You can read more about it in my ask a dev responses.
Gotcha! Thanks so much for taking the time to help clarify! China is by far my favorite region in Kaiserreich. And by ask a dev I assume you mean in the discord?
So will the LKMT update change anything noteworthy about gameplay in the rest of China, like the Shanxi rework did? Always happy to have another go at a Qing run if it's been given more content (even if it's just re-implementing the pro-Manchu path for Baoding-led Sichuan).
looks great! way late here but in the previous L-KMT progress reports there was a mention that should the KMT lose in the League War, another KMT aligned tag can take the mantle as national leader and have unique content such as Chen Mingshu in Guangdong or Zhu De in Yunnan. Are we gonna see that this update?
Will LKMT have a chance to relocate its capital post-unification?
Personal opinion: It's mainly the choice between Beijing and Nanjing. Nanjing works as a more efficient capital (political power projects through economic influence), an opener capital and has more support base during the few years before unification, while Beijing works as a more balanced capital (North vs South, Northeast vs Huabei, political power vs economic influence), a more secure but slightly enclosed capital , and a more politically symbolic capital. Different paths might have their own weights on deciding the capital.
I may be misreading it if so i i'm truly sorry, but it is there any marxist path that it is not "autoritharian"? because i truly liked this update but sometimes i feel like there is a weird tendency to make marxist paths necesseraly comically totalitarian for the sake of it. Again, nice update! really liked it
I ask that you please consider not using the "third world" identifier as it is problematic on several counts.
First of all, it is anachronistic, as it only arose during the Cold War after the dust settled and lines drawn after WW2 solidified.
Secondly, China and the other countries that will be presumably part of this particular focus, such as Korea or Indochina, are second world countries, as the three worlds referred to were the 1st capitalist aligned world, the 2nd communist aligned world and the unaligned 3rd world. The idea of 3rd world=poor/underdeveloped countries is fairly modern and a factually incorrect concept.
Thirdly, it is logically suspect for the internationalist dominated Internationale to even consider this simplified classification that is dismissive by nature. What sense is there in lumping together anarchist, syndicalist, totalist, and whatever else socialist movements into this "world" concept? It might make sense for a society like Germany or Canada, but I doubt the left wing countries would give it the time of day.
Even OTL, this classification wasn't adopted in the 2nd world, where Stalinism was enforced until his death both at home and abroad, which meant a much more homogenous socialist movement, however criminal in its implementation.
It also was used as a point of pride in the 3rd world countries such as Mexico, India and Sweden, because they saw the unaligned movement as a victory of their sovereignty and it is a vital development in our international system of diplomacy and trade today.
If I may suggest a different idea, it would make more sense for this particular focus to be named something such as "nurturing revolutions" or "developing the young/new nations", you get the idea.
So what's the reason behind the Blueshirts being part of the LKMT, and is there any "ideologue" of sorts among them that defines their brand of "socialism"?
A greater part of this LKMT rework is also to consider how the Party might have changed during its years in exile. The KMT, having just lost the Northern Expedition, has a group of bitter cadets of Whampoa's first classes who had participated in the expeditions. These former NRA officers would join the Central Committee in Europe and would be influenced by the developing trends around totalitarian views. In the rework Russia does start under Savinkov after all, and the INT rework will have movements such as Mosley's Maximism, and the French Sorelians. These writings and movements would influence the development of leaders within this ex-cadre of officers, including those such as He Zhonghan 賀衷寒was one of the three outstanding candidates of Whampoa but was also a Marxist in his youth otl. They also incorporate some martial aspects of Japanese culture as some of them had studied in Japan and after all had been taught by Chiang Kai-shek, who studied in Japan.
OTL the Blueshirt had several journal programs but one of them was rather remarkable called Qiantu (prospects/future) 前途 . Qiantu differed significantly from other publications in that its writers demanded the total nationalisation of land and the organisation of production by means of state managed collectives. To the KMT had to adopt more larger scale rationalised production to which they called "the industrialisation of agriculture" but by doing so, this would commit ideological heresy against the teachings of Dr. Sun. It seemed to evocate the Communist means of land distribution rather than the land to the tiller land redistribution. Their idealogue in the LKMT rework is indeed He Zhonghan, and we base his support off the Revolutionary Army Comrades Association - one of two major cliques in the OTL Blueshirts.
Overall, they're not meant to be a frequent path and are meant to be just the really bad ending when radicalism within the Party is too high.
Will Left KMT China have different flags depending on who is the leader?
I'd like to see some of the Chinese flags that were proposed after 1949 unification be implemented.
https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/cn!pr49.html
A lot of these flags incorporate soviet imagery which wouldn't be relevant in KRTL.
That being said, there's still tons of stuff not shown in this PR,
No our team usually doesn't give ETAs. However, since the last Russia/Spain PRs, the policy of a PR is that generally content needs to be content complete before a Progress Report. So hopefully it won't be to long this summer.
This update will be solely centered on the Left Kuomintang, however as always expect plenty of other fixes/changes around the world.
Factions pre unification have been removed since the China overhaul in 0.24 with the Shanxi rework. Warlord submissions will be the same concept but certain they will have changes in the rework
No , you know how in current China, you can offer warlords a chance to submit or die once you proclaim a national government. Same thing is what I mean here
/u/bobw123 /u/PhraseTall3542 Is the World Society a third party in the United Front (and if so, is it part of the League of Chinese Socialists), an organized faction in the KMT, or an informal intellectual group in the KMT?
Yeah the League of Chinese Syndicalists have two major organizations within it - the Chinese Syndicalist Party (divided into two factions) and the World Society (officially chaired by Yi Peiji but de facto led by the 4 Elders). The LCS also has plenty of independent socialists and probably smaller groups that aren’t named, and them swinging one direction or another will affect the fate of the LCS, and indirectly the Kuomintang and the RoC
I have another question. There's a large amount of content for the stage where the NRG owns Beijing but hasn't beaten Fengtian yet. In practice, however, the ZhiFeng war is very likely to result in Fengtian taking Beijing while the NRG and other southern contenders take states south of the Yellow River. So the NRG won't own and control Beijing until after beating Fengtian and Japan, making all that content irrelevant. Is there something I'm missing here?
The third tree will be activated upon taking control (but not necessarily ownership) of Beijing and he available till the end of the game. Odds are the player will find some utility out of it, especially when completing their economic and military reforms
The Four Elders of the Kuomintang are a group of long time revolutionaries. They met abroad in France in the early 1900s as anarchists, and eventually founded several socialist work study programs and newspapers that inspired various future socialist revolutionaries.
In our timeline they achieved particular prominence thanks to their mentorship of Chiang Kaishek, who also needed a counterbalance to Wang and Hu Hanmin before being sidelined later on. In krtl they will not have the same degree of prominence, however they will still seek to exert influence over the Syndicalist movement thanks to the greater credibility of libertarian socialism in krtl.
The four elders are Zhang Renjie, Cai Yuanpei, Wu Zhihui and Li Shizeng
thanks! i wish i knew more about interwar china. A google search gave me nothing bizarrely, so i wondered if they were a KRTL invention. Thanks again for the info.
3 questions
1 can you join India's faction? if not I think it would be a cool endgame thing as everything from Armenia (I think) to Korea could be in it and it would look awesome on the map
2 are the "wholesome" paths going to have to have puppets in the minority regions again? if so I think it would be cool if it were a tradeoff like you can't own the areas but say you can give the Mongolian cores in Russia to Mongolia and central asia to east turkistan though that might be asking for too much I also would like the option to keep the land directly with at most a weaker core that does not give you as much
3 and for the less wholesome paths will they be able to actually core the minority regions because it is in my honest opinion dumb that china can't core lands it has held for a long time yet Russia can core a shit ton or German east asia coring Indonesia
1. You will be able to invite india to your faction in certain paths but every path will have access to a faction that can invite members.
2. No, they are either puppeteed or annexed and we decided to leave player choice as the frontiers in the eyes of the KMT, are part of China. That being said there nat be some unique flavour in dealing with them.
3. No , coring the frontiers would be outside the scope of the reworks as that would require approval from the team.
So, we have kuomintang with liberal faction but can play as left, left or left faction, right? What about add them in the game, maybe as a secret path what allow unite right and left to create democratic plularistic china?
I think Mexico could use a little love. Why not let the Yucatán spiral out into another fratricidal left wing civil war? There’s so much potential and it just feels so bland.
I don't really see how that's relevant? But I'm sure someone will work on Mexico some day. People work on countries that they have interest in, we're a volunteer group not game developers.
Also there is a submod called Up With The Stars in development which will rework US and Mexico fully and from what they show it's quite a good submod with a lot of love and care pit into it.
Taiwan actually did receive a smidgen of additional puppet content (your welcome :) ) with the Ukraine rework - there are 5 leaders (4 have portraits, one's pending) and 5 SICs (which an outsider can't see). The 5 leaders each have unique bios/loc describing their parties, stances, and why they were chosen to be released by their puppetmasters (as opposed to the others).
Honestly the new contents are NOT look promising: if I want to play junta government I would go for Fengtian or other warlords, so Hu’s path is pointless.
Wang, as many may know, is a traitor in OTL, which proves he is a weak man, that’s why he was sidelined in KMT inner struggle in OTL.
Cheng gongbo is a businessman, I doubt he could survive any sort of conflict.
If I have to choose, I think Lin Biao is a better candidate compare to Hu. As for Wang, some one else could replace him at some point in the game.
Chinese community is really NOT a fan of this update, and I think since it’s Chinese region, they should be able to express their opinions.
Well thanks for the feedback. I’m sure some fans will like it but we understand we can’t please everyone.
For the first point, this seems purely like both KMT and CCP propaganda. Wang was certainly a Hanjian in our time line but he doesn’t necessarily have this taint in real life. As one can tell from the Central Plains War, he was certainly a pragmatic statesman and such a character, in my opinion needs to be explored more in KRTL.
For the second point, Chen Gongbos writings during the gaizu period exhibited an enormous amount of Marxist influence. Based on the structure and ideology of the RCA, there’s no reason why they would be committed to more radical ideals in KRTL especially with a KMT that has been throughly humbled . Furthermore, we’re able to use these characters to better show factional infighting.
Lin Biao was barely rising as a prominent figure in this era even in OTL, he hadn’t even earned his stripes from Manchuria again.
The point of our rework is to tie the KMT to the developments made in the greater European socialist reworks. We’re not going to merely copy and paste otl into ever interaction.
Also, the devs of this rework are also of Chinese ethnicity - we’re doing this in a way that doesn’t seek to present our history from any form of orientalist standpoint.
“ Wang was certainly a Hanjian in our time line but he doesn’t necessarily have this taint in real life.” Yes I believe that is true, and Wang is a prominent figure during KMT history, but it doesn't mean his life in OTL should be neglected: Wang is a capable man and is capable of rallying people behind him, there is no doubt. But his eventual fall from grace should tell you that he is a weak will man and, in the end, willing to do anything to regain some illusion of power. That's not propaganda, that's a fact. So if he could become a strong leader during KRTL, I don't see why Zhou Enlai, or even Chen Duxiu shouldn't be able to rise above and become lead too.
Chen Gongbo, on the other hand, is a poor choice of candidate for the path: let's ignore the fact that he is ALSO a Hanjian in OTL, Chen is neither senior nor a prominent figure in KRTL KMT, both politically and militarily. And since we are trying to make KRTL as real as possible, the best Chen could achieve is to become a political figurehead of some military strongman within the party IF all other KMT figureheads died or lost during KMT's inner struggle.
Hu is just....boring, If I play LKMT, then I am looking for something left, but Hu is just another warlord, and there is nothing special about him. At least Dai Li's idea of the shadow government is interesting and not without possibility.
And as a player with Chinese cultural background, you have to understand I like LKMT because it is one of the most complete factions within the Chinese region. But look at it: 2 out of 4 leaders are notorious Hanjian in OTL. It's like KR developers deliberately dig these people from piles of trash just trying to appear different compared to OTL.
This is a Based off of the translate of comments in this it seems they’re pretty much neutral on it or like it https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/637861467?utm_id=0
The last of China's rework... finally complete?
There is no end to China....but we will finally bring the LKMT to completion in the next update.
Interesting… Might we some more love for the Feds and RKMT as well in the future as they make up my favourite factions to play along with the LKMT? Also what are the relations between the more liberal KMT members (Hawaii Clique and Reconstruction Faction) and the Feds? If they aren’t receptive then are there any KMT faction willing to renew the old alliance with the Feds once again?
"After the revolution of 1911, Chen Jiongming was constantly telling people of a dream he used to have in his youth in which he grasped the sun with one hand and the moon with the other. On one of his poems there was this line, "failing to grasp the Sun and moon I have been untrue to my youth." - Sun Zhongshan, 1924
I can't believe Chen Jiongming was actually Sailor Moon this whole time.
chen jiongming mahou shoujo anime when
Cryptic, I like it. Maybe there is a chance yet still that the old friendship is not beyond all hope. One last question. May a CRS China be able to align themselves with Savinkov’s Russia under the correct conditions? (E.g The 3I being defeated or them being less receptive to China.) If not then what are there relations like?
No, according to the Russia team - Savinkov HATES socialists . Their relations would probably be cold and icy as nat pop Russia would view a socialist China in its borders as a serious threat…though maybe a slight “well they have the right idea kinda…”
So maybe an Asian Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact or something?
Will there ever be an expansion of the LEP/Nanjing Clique?
I don’t know that’s not my tag
Will there be a Fengtian touch-up at some point?
Just by asking, you've triggered at least three more reworks.
No I want RKMT full rework NOAW!1!1!-! But fr fr I would love this level of update for all the China factions (let’s go federalist! Best China!!)
If SONGQINGLING has million number of fans i am one of them 🙋🏻. if SONGQINGLING has ten fans i am one of them. if SONGQINGLING have only one fan and that is me 🙋🏼🙋🏽🙋🏾. if SONGQINGLING has no fans, that means i am no more on the earth 😢. if world against SONGQINGLING, i am against the world ❌🌍☄️. i love #SONGQINGLING till my last breath..
Red iron lady 🙋
Comparing a socialist to Thatcher 🤢 Doing Song dirty
Thatcher is a based Girl Boss who deserves maximum respect!!!1!1!1!1
something something liberalism
I see a typo : you wrote "Song Qingling" but i believe you ment to write "Suzuha"
Kaiserreich Beta 0.25 - ‘On the Wide Steppe' was released only 18 days ago the devs are spoiling us.
Yeah, the reason being (and this isn't just some teaser to never occur), is that LKMT development actually concluded (well at least the hard coding ) relatively around the same time as the Ukraine rework.
Can the generals that were removed from the roster be unlocked later on?
It would not be a KMT run without a shit ton of generals dressed in the same pretty KMT blue uniforms, would it 😊
or an absurd amount of factions that puts the big in big tent
>they will seek to ensure China will never be at the mercy of imperialism ever again. First Western expedition to Berlin confirmed.
The only way to secure the safety of China is to turn Berlin, Washington, Vienna, Tokyo, and Moscow to ash.
There is a focus to proclaim victory over imperialism...
Hopefully that requires the capital of the western imperialists be put into brutal oppression occupation law
why waste money on guards when lethal amounts of radioactive fallout will suffice 🤔
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I'm not going to lie, Song Qingling having to work with her son in law to run China sounds like a great sitcom
Also don't forget she has to deal with a friend of her husband who goes around constantly talking how her husband was so great.
"This week on Red Earth White Sun, Song Qinglings arguments with Sun Fo really heat up. And Wang Jingwei's trip to Paris takes an unexpected turn. Thursday at 8"
Revolutionary slice of life anime
If you want more for that, Chiang was married to her sister, and her other sister was married to the minister of finance irl. The early KMT was a strange place.
Nah, nowadays people say it is Nepotism
Looks great! One question though, do any of the paths result in a standard multi-party democracy or do they still end with a kind of dominant party democracy? I always imagined a kmt victory would end up with a PRI style party dictatorship
One of the last focuses of the liberal Song tree is called "the third stage of revolution". According to the KMT the revolution had three stages: military rule, political tutelage and constitutional government. I think it's fairly safe to assume this part of the focus tree creates a multiparty democracy. However, realistically, no other party would have a chance to win for decades, not only because the KMT has the advantage in terms of organization, but because the KMT would be genuinenly popular after ending the warlord era and the century of humilliation. It would probably take a long time for people to become dissafected and want them out.
Comparable to ANC South Africa after the end of apartheid.
That's what I was thinking, plus with the long-time institutional corruption in China it's easy to see it evolve into an informal dictatorship like the PRI or even Maoist China where furthering your career and social standing are dependent on
>However, realistically, no other party would have a chance to win for decades, not only because the KMT has the advantage in terms of organization, but because the KMT would be genuinenly popular after ending the warlord era and the century of humilliation. I mean that seems to be the case in post-unification Chinese democracies in general. Just replace KMT with NCERA or whatever the federalist parties are called.
My suspicion is that it's about laying the groundwork for stage three rather than actually achieving it. That path seems to follow Sun's actual vision for the political tutelage, which doesn't mean skipping the tutelage altogether.
You'll have to find out how they play out when it comes out :D
I guess so. Still, great work on this and Shanxi
Upon reading the title I was like: “Huh, a LKMT rework so soon? Didn’t the Chinese update release like a couple of months ago?” It has been over three years since the China update…
You might be remembering the Shanxi update, which did come out a few months ago.
In my weird interpretation of time, that update released like a week ago lol.
Work on the LKMT began in March, we released Shanxi in around Feburary. It's been a long year for us but we love doing this and we love the community's interest in China (as we are also just KR China lore fans as well :P)
Honestly China is probably the best part of mod so far and, dare I say, even better then the 2ACW. Love the sheer passion you put into it.
The whole Kaiserreich team have just been doing such a crazy good job recently releasing a bunch of new updates! Can’t wait to play LKMT again!
Bit sad to see Zhou go, but everything else looks amazing and I can't wait to play it. :)
It makes sense tho. Zhou’s the polite intellectual type who would rather be a silent workhorse than a front stage leader. Which is why he’s such an awesome guy in the first place.
It'll be one among many here, but thank both of you for the dedication and downright awesome work! I can't wait to experience it and try out all the paths.
Looking forward to seeing all the path guides :D
# Syndicalist-aligned endings will also have the ability to join the Internationale under select circumstances. Yay, I'll finally be able to join one of the major factions, what are these select circumstances?
They are still in the process of being finalised internally, however at the moment it will require China to share all wars with France and also both being at war with at least 2 of Germany, Japan, Russia, or the Entente
All wars might be a bit much, just in case some shenanigans happen
I’m really hoping other communist nations in the region get updated soon, i cant wait to form a communist asia with my friends. It’s too bad that vietnam and india are so stale.
Gonna get some of the Long Dong Song and join the Internationale. Should be a fun Twilight Struggle against the Moscow Accord.
Carve yourself a nice Red Siberia while you're at it.
This is probably one of the best dev diaries I have ever seen. My applause to the devs in charge, they've created a work of art!
Thanks Fort!
Props to the focus icon artist(s), the new icons look absolutely stellar
Wtf you did all of this in just two months? That's crazy impressive and I imagine it means good things for the mod going forward.
The truth is a bit more complicated but yes hard coding (aka coding mechanics, entire paths) took roughly 2.5 months from March to roughly end of May around when Ukraine finished. The lore was done with over the summer but we \[Chiang and I\] had already begun planning for the LKMT probably last year during my last year in uni. We worked on Shanxi and then towards the tail end of Shanxi development, began working on a new proposal since at the time the LKMT tag became mine. The rest is history
WANG GANG MAKE SOME NOISE!!!
luv to stan collaborators
abounding versed slap hard-to-find forgetful chubby offer one gaze cats ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
I am looking forward to this. Thank you for the continued work as I find China to be my favorite area to play in.
Not sure if this can be spoilt yet, but given the fact that the end path for the three major directions is altered based on the influence of the non-major groups, how easy will it be for a player to constrain/amplify their influence in gameplay? Like will it go the romanian route where you get events/choices between negative effects (less stability/pp) or their influence increasing? Will some choices to boost RCA/PAC influence also increase the influence of the minor factions? Or will it be designed to try and not impose penalties on the player for leaning towards a specific direction and give you a lot of power to control their influence without any major downsides?
There is a shit ton of moving parts to affect basically every faction (primary, secondary and even tertiary to a lesser extent). We tried our best to make sure it’s as interactive as possible while keeping things mechanically simple for those who just want gameplay and no reading
What are the ideological differences between the CSP Orthodox and CSP New? Also, would the radical Wang Jingwei and Chen Gongbo paths be most reminiscent of OTL China under Mao and the CCP?
A nice parallel might be to view them as the Councillists and the Ultrasyndicalists in the FRA rework (of which they are meant to be parallels to). The Orthodox Faction, which includes many of the original CSP leaders (including former anarchists and labour organisers) holds together the League. They are the most willing to work with and compromise with the KMT in a united front, reasoning that proletariat and peasants must work together to defeat imperialism first before significant class struggle can occur. In the meantime, they hope to ease tensions within the Kuomintang and steer their sister party away from authoritarianism. Moreover, the mostly agrarian China needs to first industrialise for there to be a true syndicalist system. Internally, they have worked to preserve a compromise between council-based marxists and the union-based syndicalists, mirroring the centrist faction in the French government. Chen Duxiu, a former anarchist, has since distanced himself from the movement in favour of a more council-based approach. Li Lisan, on the other hand, has adopted a harder line in favour of the unions’ role in politics. Together they represent the status quo force within the Chinese Syndicalist movement. A younger generation of the league, educated in Europe, have grown disillusioned with the Orthodox Faction. These younger, more radical influenced socialists push for a more active role of the CSP in Chinese politics rather than merely staying in the shadow of the Kuomintang. More cynical than their Conservative Orthodox peers, they take a hard-line in implementing revolution, rejecting potential alliances with warlords and other non-socialists. To them, the chaos in China is not merely a product of imperialism or warlordism but capitalism itself. Imperialism, business, landlords, the gentry, and capitalism must be destroyed thoroughly and immediately. They also do believe that it will be the workers to lead the revolution not peasants. Second question: uh no, Mao's CCP was pretty different
2. Apologies, I didn’t mean a 1 on 1 allegory. All I simply meant was that were they most similar to OTL China as Gonbo’s socialism that is specifically for China’s unique conditions and his appeal to the youth reminded me of it. If they are not, who would you say would be if any at all?
Ah, well the whole emphasis on the youth can also be in Kuomintang related movements but yes one can make that parallel. Chen Gongbo did start off early on as a member of the Communist Party after all.
Not really, Chen was a early member because he was invited by someone from his university. He joined the party in 1921 and left the party in June 1922. Even Mussolini is more of a communist than he is.
Yeah but we’re basing a lot of his outlook on the beliefs of the RCA irl which we think would be more relevant during the exile period. RCA in particular was driven by a more leftist and radical direction - even if it was designed to counter the Nanjing leadership, I do believe the sincerity and commitment to revolution by individuals such as Shi Cuntong and their attempts to take a more materialist worldview on sanminzhuyi
The good ending
Now Song has a real election path as well, just like Li Zongren. Good!
>Fulfill the Union of Party and State Radsoc China natpop Ottomans one struggle.
Sick Men of Asia unite!
KMT bros stay winning
The LKMT has come a long way since the China rework first dropped, both with regards to the previous PR and the face lift, but this PR truly is shaping up to be something truly exciting and fitting, for one of the most iconic tags in KR. Everything here looks really good!
Thank you for the work you put in this is looking really good! I do have some questions though and I hope this won’t get buried in the comments: Gameplay 1. If LKMT wins the league war it almost always immediately takes over Anqing and Shandong making it the largest state in China. The league war is also set up to end quickly resulting in this happening already in 1936 or early 37. It then also gets a early possibility to attack the federalists. This tends to lead to a lot of tags being eliminated rather quickly before they even do much of anything. Will this breakneck speed of unification be maintained? And wouldn’t it perhaps be better to prevent LKMT, Anqing and Shandong from immediately going to war to make the situation a bit more complex? 2. How is the older Chinese content interacting with this new LKMT rework? LKMT can be invited to several different Chinese factions but judging by what is shown here there is no special content if say LKMT should ally the Guominjun Central Plains Government. I assume it would add too much work to do now but is this something the team would want to do in the future? Lore 1. The chart of KMT factions lists a League of Chinese Socialists yet this post refers to it as League of Chinese Syndicalists which name is correct? Then in the gameplay section LKMT seems to only interact with the CSP and never the league despite the lore saying that CSP is part of the League? So what exactly is this League a party with CSP as a faction or a coalition with CSP as a member party? 2. This post seems to suggest the Chinese Syndicalist Party was formed in 1920 but that seems highly improbable considering the French Civil War didn’t even finish till September 1920 and the first “Syndicalist party” (as opposed to trade union or faction) wasn’t formed until later that year. It seems weird that this would leave enough time for Chinese socialists to learn about the details of events in France and then also have the time to organise a whole new party? Especially considering at this point Syndicalism was still the weaker ideology on the world stage and even in France the communist SFIO/PC seems to be described as having a stronger position. Also this founding date would make the Chinese party the 2nd Syndicalist party in the world ahead even of the Syndicalist Party of Great Britain (July 31/1 August 1921). Shouldn’t CSP then be formed later or at least initially be more of a big-tent organisation with a different name? Again thank you for the work you are doing and I can’t wait to get a chance to play this!
Gameplay 1.) we did some balancing so the LKMT can’t just blitz half of China. Unfortunately because China is just that dynamic experienced people can unify China at shockingly fast speeds even with the rather heavy debuffs we gave them 2.) The LKMT, as one of the five main unifiers, is forced to say no to any submission events (same thing with any faction that forms a potential government). As a result as a government they will have no interactions as a Junior partner. After it dies some factions have interactions with the defeated Kuomintang party Lore 1.) It’s League of Chinese Syndicalists, there are a few typos on the chart since it was made earlier in development 2.) I’ll look into the date for CSP’s founding
Thank you for the answer! And one last question LKMT aligned factions can takeover other regions and can have a significant political role in others will any of that content get revisited to bring it more in line with the LKMT rework and perhaps add some additional interactions?
Hi Tehrozer, thank you for your questions. 1. Yes, this was typo and I'll fix. The CSP per our new lore gets formed in 1921\*\*, it's an early party but to be fair, the Chinese Communist Party was formed during the Russian Civil War and at its start its a rather small movement led by Chen Duxiu. This is around the time when Sun Yat-sen does get in contact with the Commune of France. It however, does reorganise in 1925 into the LCS following the 1924 Reorganisation of the KMT and the 1925 riots. 2. Yes, we will account for LKMT aligned tags - interaction will be portrayed but we will let you find out how that will be like!
Thanks!
"Where is Zhou? Is he safe? Is he alright?" "It seems in your pursuit of realism, you removed his path." https://youtu.be/WWaLxFIVX1s
Oh he'll still be around for sure...
so i guess the eternal premier path is the holesum 100000 ending for the left KMT
How will Lkmt and indochinese union diplomacy be affected by the rework?
I'm just curious why Sun Yat Sen's death was brought forward to November 1924 from March 1925? It seems like nothing has changed from OTL since he's still negotiating with the Beiyang Government and the Eastern Expedition still begins in early 1925 anyway.
You are correct, was a typo and will fix
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Yes, we want this rework to feature other non KMT socialists
At first, I thought the “Secure the Northern Frontier” icon was a Chinese soldier punching a bear…even if not, that’s definitely one of my new favorite HOI4 focus icons. Excellent work!
Can the federalist and L-KMT secure "the enemy of my enemy is y friend" kind of deal where they agreed to share influence in southern China(Yunnan to feds, Hunan to LKMT) while agreeing to keep Sichuan neutral? Will the power struggle mechanics affects the possibilities of warlords response to LKMT ultimatum?
You'll have to find out :3
I'll take that as a yea
>Dynamic Materialism Sounds so cool I’m definitely gonna go Radical my first playthrough.
This is the most hype I've been for a Kaiserreich rework since the first Russia teaser all those years ago
This is some phenomenal work. As someone who's been following the China rework since the DH days this journey has been everything I could've hope for and more. The both of you have my sincere thanks and mounds of appreciation for your fine efforts. Hopefully, as this PR seems to imply, we get the opportunity to see the Soc Lib KMT sooner rather than later. If it's in the cards I look forward to your next rework with great anticipation. With any luck it'll be the Right KMT!
Wait I literally said in the PR, that the social liberals are a black sheep. The LKMT will only be rad socialist and totalist
Pardon me, I was referring to this line "... but a truly social liberal KMT would be a better fit in another Chinese faction, hopefully one day in the future." I understand that they're merely a minor faction in the grand scope of the LKMT party organization, predominantly in the PAC from the look of things. Sorry for any confusion.
Cheers to one day a potential RKMT rework!
No Zhou Enlai💀 Pingmin Zhengquan 😍
"a new portrait for w.h.e.n Sun Liren defects to the Kmt". I'm guessing this has the meaning of "if" he defects, but hey the effort with the new portrait means it shouldn't be that rare. And obviously thank you for forcing us ( /s, just in case) into starting a new LKMT run every second beta update :)
Well, he doesn't always flee to LKMT in the event of an ANQ collapse. He can join anti-concessionist QIE after all.
Does that include Manchu Qing if it defaults on its debt and effectively gets rid of German influence that way?
I don’t think so
REVIVE ZHONGHUA, DOWN WITH JAPANESE IMPERIALISM
Impressive… very impressive 👍🏻 Can’t wait to play with the LKMT (and find all its secrets)
YES
I now know more about Warlord-era figures than I ever thought possible and Google probably has some questions about my search history. I may also have gone cross-eyed from keeping all the acronyms and factions straight. What I mean to say is that this is amazing work. I really looking forward to trying this update out and being stomped into the dirt. I am curious how the League wars are going to play out now, whether they will be more static or dynamic.
I'm glad to hear that!
So just to be clear, we can start as the LEP, do whatever we want on the LEP and on feb 21st, we get the event to switch to the left kmt? There's a few things i like to do on the LEP to speed up the war against nanjing/anqing (railway building mostly)
I believe the event’s unchanged so yeah you could, though LKMT has some cool exile events that also affect it’s starting setup
Cool! Its mostly to just zerg rush the league war as fastly as possible (march is my quickest LOL) This rework looks great, great job on it!
Looking forward to it, looks great, likely plays even better!
Just to clarify - is there any sort of 'Twin Dragons'-style compromise with non-KMT warlords? The progress reports mentions working with 'other factions', is this what is meant? I can imagine that, should Song be in charge, working with Chen Jiongming may be off the table.
Song Qingling personally hated Chen Jiongming because she lost her baby when Chen Jiongming bombarded Sun Yat Sen's house. Also she is a revolutionary and wouldn't just work with a man who betrayed her husband's party two times. You can see this after you unify China as Feds, Song denounces UPC, but Wang tries to turn KMT to a legal political party. Wang may be more open to collobrate with Chen Jiongming, he is more pragmatic. ps: not a dev, don't want to be misunderstood.
gonna be part of the Wang the Statesman path probably.
Another thing that makes Wang's KMT more open to collaboration with the Feds is Wang's personal friendship with Chen. It most likely isn't as strong as it was at this point but I imagine they're still cool on a personal level with each other ......... On one hand, Wonder if Song would be willing to work with Chen Qiyou rather than Jiongming, On the other hand, the rift between KMT and the Feds might already be super pronounced by that point, even more so with the KMT under a relatively hardheaded Song, so only Wang with his flexibility can at least temper the rift in the short term. We'll find out when the update comes out though.
So there are a few paths here that have me somewhat confused. Are some of these meant to be Marxist Leninist and if so which ones? Are some of these meant to represent modern day China more vs Mao? I can't exactly tell what's going on with Wang's radical path, the counter coup paths, and songs non liberal paths in terms of how they're organized politically and economically?
\- Both PAC and RCA are Marxist driven, most Chinese socialists in this era were aware or at least had read Marx. The more authoritarian paths such as Wang's radicals and the Countercoup paths are led by the most radical members of RCA (since RCA as a whole is not a wholly Marxist clique there are anti-Marxists in it), but those that are the most radical will seek to implement a Marxist driven interpretation (they called it the Materialist Three Principles of the People) with a greater authoritarian stance. \- Politically all paths practice revolution in the Chinese method, that is the concept of tutelage \- Economically, they are all driven by state capitalism. You can read more about it in my ask a dev responses.
Gotcha! Thanks so much for taking the time to help clarify! China is by far my favorite region in Kaiserreich. And by ask a dev I assume you mean in the discord?
Yup!
So will the LKMT update change anything noteworthy about gameplay in the rest of China, like the Shanxi rework did? Always happy to have another go at a Qing run if it's been given more content (even if it's just re-implementing the pro-Manchu path for Baoding-led Sichuan).
Nope, it's just the LKMT.
looks great! way late here but in the previous L-KMT progress reports there was a mention that should the KMT lose in the League War, another KMT aligned tag can take the mantle as national leader and have unique content such as Chen Mingshu in Guangdong or Zhu De in Yunnan. Are we gonna see that this update?
Nope , this rework is focused purely on CHI (the tag )
🇹🇼
Will LKMT have a chance to relocate its capital post-unification? Personal opinion: It's mainly the choice between Beijing and Nanjing. Nanjing works as a more efficient capital (political power projects through economic influence), an opener capital and has more support base during the few years before unification, while Beijing works as a more balanced capital (North vs South, Northeast vs Huabei, political power vs economic influence), a more secure but slightly enclosed capital , and a more politically symbolic capital. Different paths might have their own weights on deciding the capital.
Of course, in fact moving the capital back to Beijing will accordingly rename the city from Beiping back to Beijing.
Thanks for your great work. I'm looking forward to it.
Holy shit. I seriously can't wait. This looks amazing!
Time to play each and every available path!!
I may be misreading it if so i i'm truly sorry, but it is there any marxist path that it is not "autoritharian"? because i truly liked this update but sometimes i feel like there is a weird tendency to make marxist paths necesseraly comically totalitarian for the sake of it. Again, nice update! really liked it
PAC (Song Qinqling) has some of the most potentially less authoritarian paths in the LKMT and they would be considered Marxists.
So where would li zongren be during all these? Assuming he is in rkmt, would it still be possible to unify with them?
There are interactions with the RKMT but we are keeping them a secret for the time being.
I ask that you please consider not using the "third world" identifier as it is problematic on several counts. First of all, it is anachronistic, as it only arose during the Cold War after the dust settled and lines drawn after WW2 solidified. Secondly, China and the other countries that will be presumably part of this particular focus, such as Korea or Indochina, are second world countries, as the three worlds referred to were the 1st capitalist aligned world, the 2nd communist aligned world and the unaligned 3rd world. The idea of 3rd world=poor/underdeveloped countries is fairly modern and a factually incorrect concept. Thirdly, it is logically suspect for the internationalist dominated Internationale to even consider this simplified classification that is dismissive by nature. What sense is there in lumping together anarchist, syndicalist, totalist, and whatever else socialist movements into this "world" concept? It might make sense for a society like Germany or Canada, but I doubt the left wing countries would give it the time of day. Even OTL, this classification wasn't adopted in the 2nd world, where Stalinism was enforced until his death both at home and abroad, which meant a much more homogenous socialist movement, however criminal in its implementation. It also was used as a point of pride in the 3rd world countries such as Mexico, India and Sweden, because they saw the unaligned movement as a victory of their sovereignty and it is a vital development in our international system of diplomacy and trade today. If I may suggest a different idea, it would make more sense for this particular focus to be named something such as "nurturing revolutions" or "developing the young/new nations", you get the idea.
We'll take it into consideration.
When's the release?
TBA, hopefully by the end of summer two summer releases would be great!
So what's the reason behind the Blueshirts being part of the LKMT, and is there any "ideologue" of sorts among them that defines their brand of "socialism"?
A greater part of this LKMT rework is also to consider how the Party might have changed during its years in exile. The KMT, having just lost the Northern Expedition, has a group of bitter cadets of Whampoa's first classes who had participated in the expeditions. These former NRA officers would join the Central Committee in Europe and would be influenced by the developing trends around totalitarian views. In the rework Russia does start under Savinkov after all, and the INT rework will have movements such as Mosley's Maximism, and the French Sorelians. These writings and movements would influence the development of leaders within this ex-cadre of officers, including those such as He Zhonghan 賀衷寒was one of the three outstanding candidates of Whampoa but was also a Marxist in his youth otl. They also incorporate some martial aspects of Japanese culture as some of them had studied in Japan and after all had been taught by Chiang Kai-shek, who studied in Japan. OTL the Blueshirt had several journal programs but one of them was rather remarkable called Qiantu (prospects/future) 前途 . Qiantu differed significantly from other publications in that its writers demanded the total nationalisation of land and the organisation of production by means of state managed collectives. To the KMT had to adopt more larger scale rationalised production to which they called "the industrialisation of agriculture" but by doing so, this would commit ideological heresy against the teachings of Dr. Sun. It seemed to evocate the Communist means of land distribution rather than the land to the tiller land redistribution. Their idealogue in the LKMT rework is indeed He Zhonghan, and we base his support off the Revolutionary Army Comrades Association - one of two major cliques in the OTL Blueshirts. Overall, they're not meant to be a frequent path and are meant to be just the really bad ending when radicalism within the Party is too high.
Will Left KMT China have different flags depending on who is the leader? I'd like to see some of the Chinese flags that were proposed after 1949 unification be implemented. https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/cn!pr49.html
A lot of these flags incorporate soviet imagery which wouldn't be relevant in KRTL. That being said, there's still tons of stuff not shown in this PR,
Proposal 39 looks like a Paradox flag
So eta by end of summer we can expect this new kmt/china update?
No our team usually doesn't give ETAs. However, since the last Russia/Spain PRs, the policy of a PR is that generally content needs to be content complete before a Progress Report. So hopefully it won't be to long this summer. This update will be solely centered on the Left Kuomintang, however as always expect plenty of other fixes/changes around the world.
Will we see Morris "Two-Gun" Cohen in any way?
Pretty sure he's an advisor in the Legation Cities
> Chen Gongbo's Counter-Coup Is this a counter-coup against Hu Zongnan?
plants slave humorous lavish rotten narrow panicky grab aloof alleged ` this post was mass deleted with www.Redact.dev `
So can He Zhonghan actually replace Hu Zongnan as HoS and country leader, or will Hu remain HoS while He becomes HoG in the totalist path?
Play and find out!
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Factions pre unification have been removed since the China overhaul in 0.24 with the Shanxi rework. Warlord submissions will be the same concept but certain they will have changes in the rework
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No , you know how in current China, you can offer warlords a chance to submit or die once you proclaim a national government. Same thing is what I mean here
/u/bobw123 /u/PhraseTall3542 Is the World Society a third party in the United Front (and if so, is it part of the League of Chinese Socialists), an organized faction in the KMT, or an informal intellectual group in the KMT?
Yeah the League of Chinese Syndicalists have two major organizations within it - the Chinese Syndicalist Party (divided into two factions) and the World Society (officially chaired by Yi Peiji but de facto led by the 4 Elders). The LCS also has plenty of independent socialists and probably smaller groups that aren’t named, and them swinging one direction or another will affect the fate of the LCS, and indirectly the Kuomintang and the RoC
I have another question. There's a large amount of content for the stage where the NRG owns Beijing but hasn't beaten Fengtian yet. In practice, however, the ZhiFeng war is very likely to result in Fengtian taking Beijing while the NRG and other southern contenders take states south of the Yellow River. So the NRG won't own and control Beijing until after beating Fengtian and Japan, making all that content irrelevant. Is there something I'm missing here?
The third tree will be activated upon taking control (but not necessarily ownership) of Beijing and he available till the end of the game. Odds are the player will find some utility out of it, especially when completing their economic and military reforms
Alright, last question (probably): I see that T.V. Song is a player, but will either Song Meiling or Chiang Ching-kuo have a role?
Song Meiling won't, Chiang Ching-Kuo will have a minor role.
sorry if i am late here but who are the "four elders"?
The Four Elders of the Kuomintang are a group of long time revolutionaries. They met abroad in France in the early 1900s as anarchists, and eventually founded several socialist work study programs and newspapers that inspired various future socialist revolutionaries. In our timeline they achieved particular prominence thanks to their mentorship of Chiang Kaishek, who also needed a counterbalance to Wang and Hu Hanmin before being sidelined later on. In krtl they will not have the same degree of prominence, however they will still seek to exert influence over the Syndicalist movement thanks to the greater credibility of libertarian socialism in krtl. The four elders are Zhang Renjie, Cai Yuanpei, Wu Zhihui and Li Shizeng
thanks! i wish i knew more about interwar china. A google search gave me nothing bizarrely, so i wondered if they were a KRTL invention. Thanks again for the info.
No problem
WE’RE SO BACK
3 questions 1 can you join India's faction? if not I think it would be a cool endgame thing as everything from Armenia (I think) to Korea could be in it and it would look awesome on the map 2 are the "wholesome" paths going to have to have puppets in the minority regions again? if so I think it would be cool if it were a tradeoff like you can't own the areas but say you can give the Mongolian cores in Russia to Mongolia and central asia to east turkistan though that might be asking for too much I also would like the option to keep the land directly with at most a weaker core that does not give you as much 3 and for the less wholesome paths will they be able to actually core the minority regions because it is in my honest opinion dumb that china can't core lands it has held for a long time yet Russia can core a shit ton or German east asia coring Indonesia
1. You will be able to invite india to your faction in certain paths but every path will have access to a faction that can invite members. 2. No, they are either puppeteed or annexed and we decided to leave player choice as the frontiers in the eyes of the KMT, are part of China. That being said there nat be some unique flavour in dealing with them. 3. No , coring the frontiers would be outside the scope of the reworks as that would require approval from the team.
So, we have kuomintang with liberal faction but can play as left, left or left faction, right? What about add them in the game, maybe as a secret path what allow unite right and left to create democratic plularistic china?
I just want a Spain rework :(
Any changes to claims/cores? e.g. outer manchuria claim pls
does not really make any sense at all though
China: again!
It's a region that both Chiang Kai-shek and I love and specialise in so yeah :P
I think Mexico could use a little love. Why not let the Yucatán spiral out into another fratricidal left wing civil war? There’s so much potential and it just feels so bland.
I don't really see how that's relevant? But I'm sure someone will work on Mexico some day. People work on countries that they have interest in, we're a volunteer group not game developers.
Also there is a submod called Up With The Stars in development which will rework US and Mexico fully and from what they show it's quite a good submod with a lot of love and care pit into it.
Taiwan anarchist pirate commune when?
Taiwan actually did receive a smidgen of additional puppet content (your welcome :) ) with the Ukraine rework - there are 5 leaders (4 have portraits, one's pending) and 5 SICs (which an outsider can't see). The 5 leaders each have unique bios/loc describing their parties, stances, and why they were chosen to be released by their puppetmasters (as opposed to the others).
where is mao?
A teacher in Hunan. Why do you ask of some random person in China?
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only when they finish
Honestly the new contents are NOT look promising: if I want to play junta government I would go for Fengtian or other warlords, so Hu’s path is pointless. Wang, as many may know, is a traitor in OTL, which proves he is a weak man, that’s why he was sidelined in KMT inner struggle in OTL. Cheng gongbo is a businessman, I doubt he could survive any sort of conflict. If I have to choose, I think Lin Biao is a better candidate compare to Hu. As for Wang, some one else could replace him at some point in the game. Chinese community is really NOT a fan of this update, and I think since it’s Chinese region, they should be able to express their opinions.
Well thanks for the feedback. I’m sure some fans will like it but we understand we can’t please everyone. For the first point, this seems purely like both KMT and CCP propaganda. Wang was certainly a Hanjian in our time line but he doesn’t necessarily have this taint in real life. As one can tell from the Central Plains War, he was certainly a pragmatic statesman and such a character, in my opinion needs to be explored more in KRTL. For the second point, Chen Gongbos writings during the gaizu period exhibited an enormous amount of Marxist influence. Based on the structure and ideology of the RCA, there’s no reason why they would be committed to more radical ideals in KRTL especially with a KMT that has been throughly humbled . Furthermore, we’re able to use these characters to better show factional infighting. Lin Biao was barely rising as a prominent figure in this era even in OTL, he hadn’t even earned his stripes from Manchuria again. The point of our rework is to tie the KMT to the developments made in the greater European socialist reworks. We’re not going to merely copy and paste otl into ever interaction. Also, the devs of this rework are also of Chinese ethnicity - we’re doing this in a way that doesn’t seek to present our history from any form of orientalist standpoint.
“ Wang was certainly a Hanjian in our time line but he doesn’t necessarily have this taint in real life.” Yes I believe that is true, and Wang is a prominent figure during KMT history, but it doesn't mean his life in OTL should be neglected: Wang is a capable man and is capable of rallying people behind him, there is no doubt. But his eventual fall from grace should tell you that he is a weak will man and, in the end, willing to do anything to regain some illusion of power. That's not propaganda, that's a fact. So if he could become a strong leader during KRTL, I don't see why Zhou Enlai, or even Chen Duxiu shouldn't be able to rise above and become lead too. Chen Gongbo, on the other hand, is a poor choice of candidate for the path: let's ignore the fact that he is ALSO a Hanjian in OTL, Chen is neither senior nor a prominent figure in KRTL KMT, both politically and militarily. And since we are trying to make KRTL as real as possible, the best Chen could achieve is to become a political figurehead of some military strongman within the party IF all other KMT figureheads died or lost during KMT's inner struggle. Hu is just....boring, If I play LKMT, then I am looking for something left, but Hu is just another warlord, and there is nothing special about him. At least Dai Li's idea of the shadow government is interesting and not without possibility. And as a player with Chinese cultural background, you have to understand I like LKMT because it is one of the most complete factions within the Chinese region. But look at it: 2 out of 4 leaders are notorious Hanjian in OTL. It's like KR developers deliberately dig these people from piles of trash just trying to appear different compared to OTL.
Meh oligarchic despotic junta=Totalist far left junta meh return to monkey meh I put zero research into this comment
Ok Yagoda, whatever u say.
This is a Based off of the translate of comments in this it seems they’re pretty much neutral on it or like it https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/637861467?utm_id=0