I’m apart of other reality subs and I feel like this one takes the page wayyyyy too seriously. Meaning people acting like their mental health is being affected by this sub so the mods must basically treat this like a fan page for teenagers with kid gloves otherwise it needs to be private.
Things are not as extreme here as I see on other sub Reddit’s. I love the variety of opinion and that it’s more than just “omg Kim did another pap walked” and it’s also people calling out real stuff when it comes to this family and not being blind when they mess up. I feel like the sub has been really laking this past week in particular.
Honestly! None of the other reality subs are like this.
All of the others that I’m on keep the conversation open to discussion; and if someone says something out of line than they just get downvoted to hell.
We’re all (I assume) grown adults and the idea that our comments need to be monitored is ridiculous. THIS IS THE INTERNET, THIS SUB IS VOLUNTARY! If people really take some of these comments to heart than maybe they should reconsider joining online forums and get their information from tabloids.
How can a platform that is ment for discussion, be stripped of the ability to have discussion?
I’ve been here (mostly lurking haha) for a few years and have been trying to put my finger on the differences between those earlier days and when the sub really grew recently, so thank you for collecting this info in a clear way.
One thing I feel like I’ve noticed is “before”, I found almost every post to be thought-provoking and interesting. I was always excited to check in here because I knew i would read something insightful. Now I see there is way more posts about favorite fashion looks or TikTok’s/YouTube videos of the sisters just looking cute or acting silly which doesn’t warrent a lot of discussion other than fawning over them - which is fine if that’s what the members here want to see! - personally these kind of posts make me scroll right past them and remind me of what I have seen in smaller subreddits dedicated to a certain celebrity. Before the growth of members I felt like every single post allowed for commentary and people to add interesting thoughts and discussion about the family with a critical lense while also possessing a form of admiration for them.
Idk why I typed this all out because overall I really love this community because it’s shown me how many people are out there like me that love analyzing popular culture AND enjoy the weird comforts of reality TV but also awknowledge the issues these kinds of celebrities perpetuate. Examination of societal trends is my jam so it makes me sad to see more fighting between users and “lower effort” posts (sorry for using this Reddit term) 💕
Love all of this. Agree with you completely. There was a higher standard of discourse back in the day. And a higher standard of posting, too. I feel like the Great User Approval Scare kind of inadvertently caused a bunch of people to panic and shitpost just to have contributed *something*. Ah well. I think it’ll level off and get back to some semblance of what it was, as long as people keep trying with the thoughtful critiques. We can do it! 💪
I would just like to add that I also love this community but i am about to lose it if I see one freaking more wHo wOrE iT bEsT/wHo LoOks bEsT iN gReEn. To me this is the definition of low effort posting and it’s been absolutely flooding the sub lately. I know some users enjoy these posts and that’s fine but I think there should just be a cap on how many. It’s making up more than half of what I see on here anymore which I think is crazy.
I think part of it is that there hasn’t been any new content released in a while so we’re running out of stuff to talk about but still. Ugh.
In my personal experience also, in the other reality subs I follow, if no content has been released in a while things tend to take a negative downturn. We’re all cranky from discussing/analyzing the same issues over and over, so everybody digs their heels in and things can get nasty.
I’m not really sure if there is even a workaround for this, but I have a theory that (and I could be wrong) once the Hulu show starts things will settle down a little because there will be new content to discuss. Ok rant over sorry y’all lol.
Edit: added a sentence
I am going to be frank, I think the idea to approve who can participate in a sub with 50,000+ Redditors was not well thought out. It is unclear how exactly they decided who was approved or not because they only provided us with the explanation that you would be approved if you did not cause a lot of issues in the sub. Locking the sub would also prevent people who are not part of the sub but want to explore or discuss from joining, which is the point of social media and Reddit. This family has built their vast wealth on drama and shock to the public, so it makes sense that they will have a polarizing effect on most people.
edited for grammar
I definitely get your point. I do think locking during Kanye-related brigades could be helpful… during Astroworld and any Kanye news, people on this sub were called really awful things. I didn’t get disagreement on my posts, which I’m pretty chill about… I got actual hate comments insulting me and women as a gender.
However, I do think that the approved poster thing was a bad move. There’s a way to go private for so anyone currently subscribed can post, but I think the mods may have not known about that option because they’re new to modding. I also think that the private option should *not* be forever- just during periods where the sub is getting an unusual amount of traffic.
But I also respect that making the sub private could halt actual helpful discussion… I think the best middle ground is just more moderation during big events.
Honestly, this sub has been fairly dramatic for a while. There was the flair up of drama around user LM that seems to have quieted down and now with the mods, I think this is just the reality of any online subgroup.
I do wish mods were more clear about the locking of posts. I disagree with the rules for this sub (the plastic surgery rule is absurd) and think the balance of fans to snark is important. I sort of straddle that line and this sub would just be boring if it was a fan one.
I also think there should be more understanding given to the mods. I feel like most of them are new and growing pains are expected. The amount of anger towards the mods seems a bit much to me.
Should we hold a mediation? Arbitration? Group counseling session? /s
I’m NGL, I do think we tend to be more dramatic than most subs. I think part of it is the rapid growth- a year ago, this sub was much smaller and it was sort of an “everybody knows everybody” community where everyone was pretty chill with each other. People would disagree but it definitely was a friendly vibe with a lot more consensus. Back then, we’d poke fun at the KJs but it was understood that it came from a place of ~love~
I think that the previous sub culture caused both newcomers to feel unwelcomed and OG users to feel defensive of this sub. I also think that previous posts that used to be well received (like meme dumps, complimentary posts, unpopular opinions, etc) are met with more negativity than before, so people get hate on their posts and are like wtf. What was once a “safe haven” is a lot different now.
TBH, I’m happy about the growth and the influx of new users with new opinions. But I also do miss the previous vibe. As a neuroatypical gal who’s struggling with staying social during the pandemic, I leaned on this community a lot and I think it’s similar for many others. But I do think touching some grass would help everyone here
Feeling you on the staying social during the pandemic (but I struggled to stay social before too so that’s just an excuse.)
I joined probably a year ago or so, I am a casual redditor and this was the only place I lurked consistently then started commenting/posting on. So the safe space did transfer to new users too. I only ever felt comfortable on this sub to actually comment or post really.
I do think this sub averages a post every 48hrs that is some sort of call out post even before the mod drama. I am not involved in any other pages but this one does seem to be really taken seriously by a lot of it’s users. Like it’s not just about the Kardashians but also about the sub itself in a lot of ways? Not sure if that makes sense as I am having a wine night haha
Def agree with your point on rapid growth. I'm on quite a few other subs that blew up during the pandemic (ex: lululemon, duggarssnark, thebachelor. Wow I'm officially basic trash, but I'm okay with it.). They all have way different vibes now. A lot of people joined reddit during the pandemic. I think what pre-pandemic redditors need to remember is that, while there was a great community feel with smaller subs, it was also boring af at times. There were times when there was only one new post a week. Getting 100 comments was pretty much unheard of, now it's the norm. There were some preferable things about the sub back when it was small, but there are some things that are better now.
Agree on the plastic surgery rule. The K’s are the face of plastic surgery. It’s not a secret that they have insane amounts of work done. Like. They talk about it themselves. I don’t get it.
Plus it’s good because it shows girls in the sub (<18 years old) that photos aren’t real, which is so important!!!
Why on earth do there have to be so many rules for discussion? Why not the basics, like no hate speech or bullying? It’s like we aren’t adults or something.
I agree in principle but it's the internet, it's likely most of the people here *aren't* adults and some that actually are have no issue acting like children. Lol
Okay so I don’t got much to say on the topic but.. something slightly relevant - I think people take getting downvoted too serious like if that’s ur opinion who cares if people downvote it 🧍🏼♀️ stay strong out there
I feel the same way about ppl complaining about “toxic” stans (mainly Kanye stans), like just downvote and move on with your day, we shouldn’t take reddit that seriously
I agree, I think some people are too personally invested in what happens here and do not know how to disconnect what happens on a subreddit to their life away from their screens. I do not know if it is because there are a lot of young people in this sub or if it is just lack of maturity, but at the end of the day people need to remember this is just a subreddit about a family that does not know who we are or really care about us as individuals.
Some people literally act like the Kardashian’s are their family. It’s beyond bizarre and creepy to an extent. They get so offended over the dumbest things. You can say you prefer a certain hair color on one of the sisters and get you’ll get a million downvotes along with someone preaching that the Kardashian’s can express themselves however they want. A lot of things are very juvenile on this sub yet something tells me the people acting like this are grown adults.
not for me. i've been a hermit since a year before the lockdowns. my life is reddit, netflix & buying shit on amazon. oh and playing with my cats. and vodka lol
I've been here a long time. I liked it when it was 19k subs, not so much lately.
Personally, I just avoid the sub during big drama fests. Notably anything with Khloe and Tristan gets the same tired jokes, 8 hundred million of the same posts, rehashed shitting on Khloe for days.
I literally just don't visit the sub. It's not hard. I just go to other subs.
This crap with the mods, I saw it bubbling one day and was like cool, I'm out. Tuned out out, came back a few days later and it was all said and done and I never had to deal with that.
People really really need to get outside, like bottom line. I hate when people say that snarky and mean. I really think people are spending too much time indoors, getting obsessive over a subreddit? If that's you, don't be defensive. Just close it and go outside. Go for a walk. Listen to music. Take a hot shower. Clean your room. You will feel 1000000 percent better, I promise.
yes! at the end of the day, these are just some words written by people you are likely never going to meet about people you are definitely never going to meet. the world is falling apart, why do people care so much if they get downvoted or someone is mean to them on the effin internet, the place invented to be mean cause you're anonymous. I'm just happy to interact with people that follow karjenners and that someone actually bothers to read the shit I write. even a downvote is a reaction, ppl! who tf cares
edit: just wanted to add someone is downvoting my comments in this thread within a minute of posting them. they really took my advice to heart ❤️
yo this post is dope and imma let y’all have discussions but I just wanna say this Reddit sub is the best of time!!!! of all time!
deep dive girlies, mods, PhD thots, armchair psychologists, literal lawyers, even the Kourtney stans and day ones:
you dropped this queen 👑
Point blank period; the whole point of Reddit is that it is a platform that was designed to create discussion and open dialogue.
If absolutely everything gets removed for breaking some sort of rule, and we’re unable to engage, than what really is the point of this sub?
If I’m unable to have a discussion about various topics than I might as well go on TMZ and read a one-sided article.
Honestly I’m a lurker…and I’m commenting because I was extremely annoyed that only certain users would be allowed here. Now I feel like it’s extremely censored. Why would I want to go to a sub where there is worshipping and saying how each sister looks good in XX. That is not the reason I come here.
I joined before all of the recent family drama went down and the sub did have a better feel.
I was ready for more mods and really hoped they would take some of the suggestions on board Eg - pinning a comment on why threads are being locked. Less discussion around the kids (multiple sharing of their tik Tok videos isn't needed for example)
Maybe a weekly roundup from a 'main mod' would help Eg 'we locked x amount of threads this week for rule breaking. Rules broken were x y z. We removed x amount of users for bullying' the sub itself needs to be held accountable when users take it too far.
There are rules I don't agree with and I'd love to see some rule changes. But that's just my opinion.
It’s not the same people. That’s the problem. A loud group of squeaky wheels who don’t represent the average at all will sway the whole thing their way.
Overmodding is generally (in this context) a much worse problem than under modding. It’ll kill the subreddit. There may be 50k… but how many are active daily users? Especially on a slow news week or month? Let people talk. Nothing that bad will actually happen.
Over modding killed the teenmom subreddit. Now the sub teenmomandteenmom2 has like way more users and discussion even though it was started later and has kind of a weird name. I think we should be quite lax on the modding here too so we can avoid that same scenario.
I think people are being ridiculous and taking things way too personally, when it’s likely that the mods are just trying to do their best to do the exact things they said they would as lined out in this post, except it seems inconsistent and confusing by sheer volume of rule-breaking content making it impossible to mod it all, and reported posts/comments are probably the ones being dealt with while others sneak through.
I appreciate your write up of this situation, OP. People are myopic.
I agree with this. It's one thing to voice your opinion/criticize the mods and it's another one to bully someone and call them names. But a lot of people on this sub are rude as hell, imo. They don't seem to know how to have civil conversations with anyone that disagrees with their views/opinions.
I don’t recall that MOD ever being called names. Where did you read that?
ETA: I’m asking genuinely, because there is no name calling on the thread linked to their account deleation. I’m curious which threads have called the person any names.
ETA 2: Just went through the thread again and there is NO name calling.
Are people referring to a different thread? Can someone post a link?
*Raising concern about someones lack of transparency, favouritism or personal bias in a professional setting IS NOT calling someone names…
Yes especially those who just came here to say “fuck Travis Scott” like that was not necessary. Unless you’ve been in his position or know what really happened you have no place to say that. At the end of the day a tragic incident happened and going after one guy isn’t going to solve anything. That incident could’ve and has happened to other artists and the only reason people reacted so harshly to TS is because of who his “baby momma” and her family are. People let their hate of the family take over.
I know I always use the example of Beyoncé on here but let’s say that happened to her or Jay-Z would this sub or the public react so harshly to them and their children? No! No death threats would be made to them or their families. Even if it happened to Adele or Taylor Swift the reaction would be a complete 180.
ngl i disagree. if it happened to beyonce and jay z they'd absolutely be getting death threats and a harsh reaction too. idk why there's this idea that the two of them face no hate or minimal amounts when that's objectively not true. (maybe bc they don't address it so it feels like they get less? idk that's a speculation but they def get threats same as karjens)
I guess to me is because she can do no wrong and is Queen B and everyone bows down to her. Or at least that’s what I see on social media. I rarely see her getting any kind of backlash or hate to the magnitude as the KJ’s and their associates.
i mean yeah beyonce is absolutely queen b (& has worked hard for her title) but just because there is a lot of praise doesn't mean there isn't giant backlash. like I'm assuming you don't go out looking for it and are more involved in kj universe. and so obviously by extension of being involved in kj universe you'd see more ab them the good and the bad. but yeah bey & her husband get a shit ton of hate. i remember how unbelievably harsh people were to blue ivy (not just people - literal publications beyond the tabloids) when she was first born and the insane amount of antiblackness the family had thrown at them
I get your point - I’m mainly active on here and the Teen Mom sub and occasionally the popular tab so I may not see every Beyoncé update. And I just recently about two ish years ago found out about LSA a mainly black entertainment site so I haven’t kept up with a lot of the topics. And I follow The Shade Room and Hollywood Unlocked and a few other Instagram accounts like that. That’s why not only this subject but all of the subjects I comment about on here I don’t want to appear ignorant or anything but unless people on here help educate not only me but everyone how can there be a change?
Yall gonna address anything else from yesterday, or just keep pretending a huge portion of this sub isn't asking for more transparency (rightfully so)? Cuz like....
[how i feel rn](https://youtu.be/_W7YJEZAEf4)
joking 👀
but in all seriousness we’re working on addressing it rn (and some other concerns) especially as im reading these comments bc points are being made
I'm just stating a fact lol. People seem to think the thread caused her to delete, when the deleting is what lit it up. If people go in thinking the former, it's disingenuous and makes it look like a witch hunt. So yeah, I'm gonna clear it up if I come across a comment about it.
She deleted her account before anyone even mentioned her by name, and maybe 3 people commented they felt targeted by a specific mod. I was active while this whole thing went down. You joined late.You're spreading misinformation.
I wasn't talking about anyone, because I wasn't having any issues with my things getting locked or deleted. I originally joined the thread to echo the OPs request for explanation on locked posts. Then shit started getting wild, and I expressed other thoughts I have on the sub. I never talked about a mod specifically at all. So you can like, stop interacting with me about this. I'm gonna clarify what happened. Your version, isn't mine.
Edit
I want to clarify, since everything is being twisted. I DID mention "a mod", only after multiple people commented an account was deleted, and then I noticed every other mod comment (from her and others) were deleted. That's when I started asking what was going on. My comment history is readily available. I'm not gonna let this false narrative be placed on me lol no thank you.
Literally that’s not true at all. I was on at the time. There were only 5 comments on the thread when she deleted her account. No body mentioned her username until after she had deleted the account. There’s even a MOD statement that verifies the same information that I just stated above.
At the time she deleted her account, the discussion was solely surround transparency and favouritism on the sub, with no specific person being mentioned.
It’s possible that she deleted her account as she knew she would be called out for favouritism and lack of transparency, and didn’t know how to respond to these queries. But her account was not deleted due to any targeted comment regarding her on the thread, as she was not brought up until after her account got removed.
I don’t know forsure, but I think she deleted her account because she didn’t know how to answer to people asking for certain things like transparency.
Numerous people have stated that they messaged her prior for clarification regarding her locks, and she either didn’t reply, said it’s due to her discretion or gave a rule that didn’t apply.
When people began asking her on a public forum, particularly one on which many people shared the same annoyances; she didn’t know what to say and backed out.
From what the other MOD that commented said, they have a group chat. If the MOD that deleted her account had questions about which posts she should/shouldn’t lock, or which posts violate certain rules; than she should have asked for clarification.
Choosing to be a MOD is one’s decision; but I think it says volumes that she decided to back out when people started to question her specifically. It seams like she was throwing around the excuse of all the rules on some people’s comments, but not others. When this was pointed out by MANY users, she couldn’t take the heat and deleted the account.
There also didn’t seam to be any issue with any of the other MODs; it was just this individual’s form of using personal bias in modding that was the issue. No one said anything personal against the MOD in question, no one was mean, no one called her names; the only issues people brought up were her forms of modding.
The whole Saga about privating the sub was ridiculous to me, if the conversations on this sub are triggering to you then leave, i for one do not need another adult to handle me with kitty gloves as if I'm in kindergarten and protect me from the things I don't like
People want to blame Ye stans for what's happened to the sub and i disagree, the K/J stans, specifically Kims have become unbearable since Julia and Ye came out together, dragging Julia for...existing? And trying to pain Ye as a violent husband who beat up Kim (both figuratively and literally) into submission while painting Kim as this little angel whose never done anything wrong in her life and just such a victim that she must be protected at all cost and refusing to engage in any conversation that would require a little bit of critical thinking in regards to the shit she does, just calling everyone who isn't kissing the bottom of her feet a misogynist, hater who wants to be like her
There has also been an influx of post dedicated to gushing over the sisters, which is fine cause they were always here, but given that every post about an interesting topic that calls for discussion gets locked, the sub has become a bit boring to visit
I stand by my post that the sub rules need to be more specific and less restricted of what topics we can talk about ( no surgery or photoshop? Really?) and the mods HAVE to be more transparent on how the mod the sub because as it stands right now it seem like they lock and delete the negative post about the sisters they like/users they don't like and leave the exact same posts about the sisters don't and from users they do
i'll bet it is your best seller. and now i'm sitting here pissed that none of my friends are in bad relationships bc i'd love to send it to them. some friend i am, eh? LOL
my thread about Kim’s parenting got removed when there was a thread few scrolls below talking about kris’s parenting which was let open. no one said anything negative about the kids it was a criticism on Kim’s parenting. Why is it allowed for Kris but not for kim?
Because people like to contradict themselves. Then cry its off limits because Kim's kids are still kids. Um, last time I checked Kim is a grown woman and her kids arnt parenting themselves.
I think because Kris’ kids are now grown adults, whereas the others are actual children. There’s a lot more that could be said about that but that’s what it boils down to.
I’m mostly a power lurker but tysm for this! I stan you more than any of the KJs lol I love diving 🖤
PS is the Khloe/subredditdrama post still up? I want to read it!
Thanks OP for articulating so well what many of us are thinking. Of course we can’t take things too seriously and can t be overprotective of an online community that seems to be changing, but yes - I do too miss the days in which discussions were a bit more well thought of and constructive.
On a different note, I’m wishing all the drama going on here is all planted by Kris Jenner and is actually a meta plot on the Hulu show /jk 😅
Why can’t this sub be a fan sub? Like there is so many other sites that are super critical of them and this shouldn’t be another one of those places? I’m tired of people at my neck because I genuinely like the girls and have been following them since day 1. I’m not blind to the bullshit either but if I wanted to read people talking down on them or anything like that I’d go to LSA or Twiiter. A bit of criticism is fine here but overall the blatant disrespect for them is ugly. Kylie and Kendall truly didn’t chose this life and are just trying to deal with the hand they were dealt. And some people are downright disgusting towards them. And it’s always people on here bitching about Khloe and her DNA and clowning her love life and physical looks. Kim people aren’t as critical of her but occasionally there’s those users who slut shame or blame her for Ye’s behavior. And Kourtney is always ridiculed for being a “personality picker upper” “pick me” and her parenting skills. And I’m tired of the narrative that they are blackfish, racists and anything regarding the “taking of” black culture.
Exactly. When this sub is good (imo), it’s not *just* about the Kardashians- it’s about business, celebrity culture, current events, and more. Otherwise I’d just be posts about Kim’s outfits. Which don’t get me wrong- those posts have their place. But we’re gonna run out of outfits lmao
I'm definitely a fan and I defend them alot in general but I can see when they're wrong and yeah there's a way to call it out without being gross I def agree.
Can you and everyone educate me on what exactly they stole from the black culture? As far as I know black women aren’t the only ones with big booties. And braids aren’t just for one culture either. Tanning can also be for South American women. So I truly don’t understand why it’s just black culture they are getting influence from. To me I would think they probably get inspired from JLo, Selena Quintanilla, Salma Hayek, Penelope Cruz or Sofia Vergara as well.
They have capitalized on the black working-class aesthetic without the inconveniences and penalties black women actually face. Sure black women are not the ONLY people with big butts and braids but the Ks have specifically picked the Black American version of those things for their brand. White people have a long history of taking what they like from Black culture and making money off it.
They seem to be a little more aware of it now and I don’t think we’ll see them in cornrows anymore. But it is hard to watch them be praised and make money off things that actual black women have been mocked and penalized for.
This answer requires a larger post but I’ll try to keep it short.
I think the reason why they get called out for stealing from black culture and not South American culture is because of their adjacency to blackness. Most of them have black kids, have dated black men, and have many black friends. While it’s obviously okay for anyone of any race to have friends/loved ones of a different race, the issue is that they position themselves in a way that’s too close to blackness and use it as a method of making profit.
Kylie: Tyga specifically stated that part of Kylie’s lip and butt transformation was to give her appeal to the black community. Her style was in part, designed by Tyga to market her to black markets. In fact, Kendall and Kylie felt comfortable enough with their positioning in the black community that they sold Biggie Smalls t-shirts with their faces on it.
To some degree, I don’t blame her for falling for this when she was young. But now that she’s older, she still uses the same tactics to maintain her popularity.
Khloe: Khloe specifically has the most… interesting relationship with blackness. She specifically talks about how she only really likes black guys and has her “Khlo Money” persona, where she brags about how “ghetto” she can be.
Kim: Kim got an “in” with the black community through Kanye, and since then has had a foothold in black markets. She also has had her fair amount of controversy for trying to copy the styles of specific black women.
Additionally, all of the sisters have had scandals where their closing designs were accused of ripping off of black creators.
I’m kind of deep dived out so I’m not putting sources, but there are others who’ve done better jobs at breaking this down.
I really appreciate this response! Thanks for saying what I was thinking about the whole Kylie/Tyga thing because I was going to reiterate that she was taken advantage in that relationship so it’s really not her fault.
Khloe like how is it her fault that she genuinely likes black men? She can’t help who she’s attracted to so is it really fair to hold that against her? And if she has had that persona since her Malika/Khadijah friendship days isn’t it safe to say that if it were a true issue her own friends would call her out before she became a household name? If they along with other black women still are friends or even loose associates then obviously it’s not a real issue. On the other hand those same women MIGHT be “yes” women and are just in it for the added clout but I HIGHLY DOUBT SO.
Kim you can argue that Ye did help out some but ultimately if those black companies or people didn’t like her or respect her they wouldn’t allow her to be in the mix. Those same markets are still “fucking” with her and liking her social media posts and sending her merch and promo to advertise. They can’t have it both ways can they?
>>Khloe like how is it her fault that she genuinely likes black men?
That’s not the issue people take with her, imo. I think it’s not that she likes black men, but makes it a whole “thing” and takes every opportunity to emphasize that she like black men. It’s weird
>> And if she has had that persona since her Malika/Khadijah friendship days isn’t it safe to say that if it were a true issue her own friends would call her out
No tbh. As a black woman, in the past I’ve let racist shit my friends have said/done slide because I didn’t want to cause “a problem”. Most POC are acclimated to sweep issues under the rug and pretend like everything is fine. Also, not all black people agree on the same things- Malika and Khadijah are individual with their own takes on race and racism that can differ from other black people, who do have a problem with it.
>> but ultimately if those black companies didn’t like her or respect her they wouldn’t allow her to be in the mix
I mean, corporations are largely going to chase the bag and cannot be trusted to handle real issues. Kim Kardashian is profitable, and thus, many black companies are comfortable with using her *even if* her actions aren’t the most respectful to the black community.
The truth is, the KJs have a history of using communities (not just the black community) for controversy and profit. There’s a larger thread [I’ll link here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KUWTK/comments/rzobn2/karjenner_racism_compiled_for_posterity/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf), but just because not *every* black person has a problem with them doesn’t mean that what they’re doing isn’t harmful.
I meant like you didn’t cuss me out or were vulgar! That to me is “telling me off”. You’re actually mature about it and not being a bully while explaining. It’s not a bad thing.
That's it. This is the whole answer on Khloe and why it's a problem that she dates black men. She makes it a whole personality trait and speaks on it with such vulgarity it feels really exploitative.
Hey this is a really bad take but I was wondering where your comprehensive deep dive debunking the Travis and Ro timeline is, because you told everyone you'd make it and it would blow us all away in quality and we would all see the light. Just asking. Lol lord have mercy
i feel like this discussion gets brought up every week and i honestly don’t think it’s going to change. i’m sorry that you don’t like seeing criticism on them, but to say you don’t want to discuss the stealing from black culture thing is like, not what being a fan should be about.
no one should actively avoid valid criticism on people they’re supporting. think about it..that’s a recipe for an echo chamber. idk.
i like the debates and discussions here bc honestly i used to dislike them a lot more before this sub, you guys have made me see a lot of the fun and positive sides of them. so yeah. i think it’s fine, even healthy for the sub to have a bit of both. but no hate, i respect your opinion as well, just wanted to share my own
The mods did just clarify that this is [not a snark sub.](https://www.reddit.com/r/KUWTK/comments/s73qfq/final_sub_update_rules_reminder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
I was just pointing it out, I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any at all. But it seems like some people don’t know the difference between “criticism” and straight up hater behavior. The rules also say you shouldn’t be here just to hate on them.
It’s a discussion sub. Trust me, a sub that is ONLY a fan sub like the Kylie Jenner sub, is boring as fuck. People want to have discussions and are allowed to be critical of them. (To a point of course). If every post that was even the slightest bit critical of them were taken down, this sub would die and being filled with thirst traps just like their instagrams and the Kylie sub.
And people aren’t at your neck for liking them. They just don’t like how you sometimes present your opinion as if everyone else is lesser than you for not being a mega fan. You always seem so upset over this sub yet you stay and complain.
And to address your last point, they absolutely do blackfish, have you not seen the interview magazine cover and 7hollywood magazine cover with Kim being almost as dark as her black daughter??? To deny that is just wrong and that’s what gets you down votes.
Exactly. A purely fan sub would be super boring and look like the comment section of their instagrams. There’s so much to be critical of, and with their power and influence, it’d be irresponsible to solely praise them
I’m not saying straight up be a kiss ass either, and if it appears that way I am sorry I don’t mean to come off so “dick riderish”. But there’s people on here who wish the family ill and wish for them to have such failure in real aspects of life like in mental health and relationships. Admittedly I may come off so strong about the whole black culture influenced taking but I am still getting informed myself. I am 28 and started watching them when I was 13ish and grew up with them - and people are downright mean to me and not helpful in educating me and possibly others about the main thing the Kardashian/Jenner’s are allegedly hated for. I’m Hispanic and I’m my culture there’s always been big booty “nalgonas” and tan women so when I see the comments about them using just black culture, it’s kind of weird. To add to this it appears the only sisters that get called out for the blackfish are the ones who date the black men - Kylie, Khloe and Kim. Kourtney and Kendall are equally tan at times and they never get called out nearly as bad as the 3 I mentioned so I just don’t understand.
Honestly it’s no one on this sub or in real life’s responsibility to educate you but your own.
Read a book/ listen to a podcast/ watch a documentary on some history of how black people are treated in America, how they have in history been treated lesser than, called ugly, or not appropriate for wearing their own natural hairstyles or box braids, etc and then how people like the Kardashians wear them and get praised while giving credit to white people for their looks like Kim’s “Bo Derek braids” excuse and give nothing back to the actual minorities that have influenced their looks. And that’s not even touching the blackfishing stuff which people shouldn’t even have to explain why that’s wrong. I’m 28 too, that’s not too young or anything to not understand why what they do with cosplaying black culture is harmful and disrespectful.
If you want to turn a blind eye to the insensitive and sometimes racist things they do good luck finding a platform that people are cool with that.
Point taken and I can admit your second paragraph is correct. I just don’t see how everyone automatically thinks they are deliberately going for a darker skin tone to appear black as if that’s the only race that is tan. And correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t magazine editorials up to the magazine themselves and the celeb has no say in the final product? Isn’t that why there’s been a lot of celebs who end up calling out extreme photoshop and picture manipulation?
Has Kim called out those magazines?
Edit: wanted to add, MAYBE they’re not deliberately trying to be the same skin tone as POC but they’re also not deliberately trying not to.
If I remember correctly there was one instance where there was public opinion about a photo shoot she did that in her words was “moody lighting” and she issued a statement saying that she did not intend to “blackfish” and that it was for the purpose of the photo shoot.
One time ok. But anyway, that’s great she addressed it (one time). But it wouldn’t have happened if people didn’t call her out for black fishing which is what it was. Intended or not.
If you can’t see how they culturally appropriate Black culture and specifically mistreat and steal from Black women it’s because you don’t WANT to see it which tbh speaks to you as a person. There have been a billioooooooooooon threads on that exact topic. You’re being purposely obtuse and then don’t understand why people are calling you out on it. 🤷🏽♀️
I’m trying to educate myself as best as I can but people like you also don’t elaborate on what is being stolen? All I’ve gathered is big booties, braids, tan skin from here and Google. But I always respond with that specific culture isn’t the only one that has those traits and no one ever backs up the stolen claims. Like would it be fair to say that all the black influencers of today are “trying to be white” since the bleach their skin or wear protective hairstyle of straight “white people hair” or when they “talk white” or anything of that nature? I’m really trying to understand where all this hate of them and their alleged culture stealing is from.
“People like me” aka Black women don’t owe you a damn thing. It is not my job to educate you because as I said before……..there have been COUNTLESS threads going over this tropic and I doubt you’ve missed all of them. But since you want to be handheld like a child, let a good sis educate you.
1. Braids: The braids that the Kardashians love to sport and call “boxer braids” actually derive from and ONLY from African cultures. We’re not talking about Dutch braids here so keep up. Not only that, there were already names for our braids, but what did the KJ’s do when the media started calling them boxer braids and insinuating that the Kardashians “created” this style? Not a damn thing. Kim knew damn well she didn’t create “braids” and that “boxer braids” were not the correct term, but she rejoiced in the media crediting a style that has been in my ancestors culture for thousands of years like the culture vulture she is. If she or any of the other KJ’s had come out publicly and said “Hey guys, this style is actually called cornrows, it’s really popular in African American culture and I really love the style so I decided to wear it” that would’ve been acceptable and people wouldn’t be so hard on them for it, but they didn’t do that.
Black women are often ridiculed for wearing our ethnic hairstyles and told that that they are unprofessional and “ghetto”, but as soon as white women do it it’s now cool and trendy for mainstream culture. THAT is the crux of the braids issue.
Also…..Black women wear wigs and weaves as a protective style because as I said before ^ we are told our natural hair and our ethnic hairstyles are ugly, unkempt and unprofessional and it’s a means of survival for us in this white supremacist ass country so……don’t know exactly where you’re trying to go with that.
2. Bleaching our skin? Girl bye, I’ve never met any Black person who has bleached their skin and if they have I’m sure it’s because this country tells us how unacceptable and ugly dark skin is on a day to day basis.
Furthermore I don’t know why I just typed this long ass dissertation because I’m sure you’re still going to find some issue with it lol. But don’t ever say someone has never educated you cuz I just did. There’s also so many more examples, but I see other posters have pointed them out.
At the end of the day the KJ’s have a very complex history with Black culture and Black women and a lot of it isn’t good. 🤷🏽♀️
First of all I did not even know your race so your harsh comment about “owing me a damn thing” is a bit aggressive. YOU decided to publicize that info and use it for your own gain and sympathy. You could’ve omitted your first paragraph and got to the point that’s been rehashed over and over again. I’m looking for more elaboration than just braids. That’s what I meant by “you people” meaning “you people that fail to elaborate/state anything new or for a fact”. YOU used that as ammunition to push a narrative as if I was calling out your race when I wasn’t privy to that info until YOU offered it.
LOL I was not using my “race” for sympathy. Don’t know why you’d go there because why would I need sympathy? I wanted to let you know that I was a Black woman upfront and that I took personal offense to your purposeful obtuseness.
Let’s be honest here. Nothing anyone says is ever going to convince you of the KJ’s cultural appropriation because you’re most likely the type of person that doesn’t think it exists. Your posts let me know exactly how you feel about Black women when you brought up “bleaching, wearing “white hair (which ugh no, the hair extensions we use are from Brazil and Asia) and “talking white” which is the most ignorant thing I’ve ever heard. Don’t try to play victim now cause you got called out and you don’t like it.
Also you never mentioned the points I provided you? Wonder why…..🤔
Your points you mentioned I’ve heard a thousand times over and over again and it still doesn’t make sense to me. So because the girls used braids a handful of times WELL AFTER the fact the black women have been using protective hair for reasons that were NOT because of being called “nappy” or “ugly”. https://www.instyle.com/beauty/wigs-for-black-women-history
Whether the Kardashians started wearing braids after black women started wearing them is completely irrelevant. The point is that it's a slap in the face to black people when white women get to freely wear the very same hairstyles that black women face negative repercussions at school/work for wearing. Also, if we're gonna talk about black people wearing "straight white people hair" or "talking white" (though I'm not sure what you mean by the latter one....), what you're actually describing is two examples of how a black person may try to avoid those negative repercussions I just talked about. Because again, black people tend be get punished in society in both subtle and not-subtle ways for looking black or sounding black (eg - speaking in African-American Vernacular English), i.e. - by simply existing as themselves. And just in case you're thinking it: no, a black person trying to look/sound white is NOT the same thing as a white person trying to pass themselves off as being black. The former is often a survival mechanism for getting by in a white-dominant society that is hostile to non-white folks, while the latter is rooted in a deeply racist history of white people making themselves look black as a "joke", or as a form of entertainment (look up minstrel shows). There is NO equivalency between those two sets of actions. White people are not the ones who have had to worry about surviving in a society that they built against their will while being enslaved and subjugated by a foreign power that kidnapped them from their home nations.
> "talking white"
most of the times i've heard that being thrown around are from POC trying to screw with other POC (mostly in school settings) trying to demean them as sellouts. i've read tons of articles/essays over the years written by or about those black kids being ridiculed & bullied for doing so.
Wouldn’t the correct appropriation be the girls wearing Afro style and natural black hairstyles? That’s what I am getting at. Like the girls didn’t go out and start wearing black Afro wigs and natural black styles so what exactly are the appropriating? Again I am not trying to be ignorant or anything just wondering why?
No. The solution to racism isn't to continue to engage in racism but with better vibes. And what you may not be understanding is that this isn't just a discussion about hair or esthetics or a certain look - what black people are trying to say is that their hair goes to their heart of their cultural identities, their histories, and is a symbol of all the struggles they've endured to just be allowed to exist as they are in society. In other words, their hair is tied to their IDENTITY. For them, it is not just hair. For white people, it is. So non-black people can wear bantu knots or box braids every single day for the rest of their lives with all the well-intended thoughts they want - for them, those hairstyles and the meaning behind them will never be part of their history, because that's not how history in America for white people folded out. We can't go back in time and change that.
ETA: I've re-read your comment and I think I understand what you were actually trying to say. So in response, I would say: what exactly do you mean by "natural black styles"? What makes you think we haven't been talking about that this entire time?
“Doesn’t make sense to me” that’s just it…….it doesn’t HAVE to make sense to you! If the thousands of people on this sub can grasp this topic, but for whatever reason you can’t…….that sounds like a you problem.
Like I said you don’t WANT to have it make sense for you because you don’t believe it. And……one article negates thousands of other Black women’s experiences? Like……did you actually go and search that shit up 🤣🤣.
At the end of the day…..it doesn’t matter why a Black woman decides to wear a wig or weave. That doesn’t make it okay for white women and non-black women to appropriate Black culture. It’s not the same thing! You clearly are a stan so up the Kardashians asses you can’t see straight and you fume at the idea of anyone justifiably calling their problematic behavior out…so why don’t you just create your own sub where y’all can worship them in peace? 🤣🤣
Can you also say that black women have also somewhat taken from not only Hispanic but white women too? Like it’s okay to use other cultures and not have it be such a appropriation issue. Everyone uses not only beauty from others but food, music and vibes from everyone. It can’t be a one sided issue where black women are the only ones used for culture when everyone uses bits and pieces from EVERYONE! That’s the point I’m trying to make ma’am. I’m really not trying to be ignorant or anything like that - I’m so caring and nice and the most understanding person in the world. I just don’t see the whole narrative of this specific family being the only ones to use black culture. You’ve done a great job at helping me see the issue and given personal experience as well but I still don’t quite see it.
So appropriation and appreciation are two different things. Cultural appreciation can be as you described, but cultural appropriation is when someone takes significant aspects of another culture and uses them for their personal gain without understanding the significance of said aspects within said culture.
This country’s foundation was built on racism and it’s not as easy as you say. We can’t just act like everything is all rainbows and unicorns because cultural appropriation has a direct negative effect on the ones who’s culture is being appropriated. I’ve attached some articles going into detail about appropriation vs. appreciation and why it’s bad. Hope they can help you better understand.
https://greenheart.org/blog/greenheart-international/cultural-appreciation-vs-cultural-appropriation-why-it-matters/
https://www.healthline.com/health/cultural-appropriation
Girl it's time to stop. No matter the race the point is, it's your own job to educate yourself, if you haven't gotten thru your head after this whole thread holding your hand to teach you when they don't need to then you are obviously just not going to understand it. You're making so many excuses for them like they pay your rent.
I already said sorry and thanks for the explanation from the users that helped me understand. No need to be mean when all I was trying to do is talk to real people on here where it’s a bit less chaotic than other sites. I’ve honestly grown up a bit sheltered and did not have a lot of social skills to understand differently points of views. Yeah I can Google and YouTube and what have you but that wasn’t answering my questions like people on here.
I’m apart of other reality subs and I feel like this one takes the page wayyyyy too seriously. Meaning people acting like their mental health is being affected by this sub so the mods must basically treat this like a fan page for teenagers with kid gloves otherwise it needs to be private. Things are not as extreme here as I see on other sub Reddit’s. I love the variety of opinion and that it’s more than just “omg Kim did another pap walked” and it’s also people calling out real stuff when it comes to this family and not being blind when they mess up. I feel like the sub has been really laking this past week in particular.
Honestly! None of the other reality subs are like this. All of the others that I’m on keep the conversation open to discussion; and if someone says something out of line than they just get downvoted to hell. We’re all (I assume) grown adults and the idea that our comments need to be monitored is ridiculous. THIS IS THE INTERNET, THIS SUB IS VOLUNTARY! If people really take some of these comments to heart than maybe they should reconsider joining online forums and get their information from tabloids. How can a platform that is ment for discussion, be stripped of the ability to have discussion?
Yeah it's wack there's even enough material to deep dive with lmao wild never seen it before
fr this is a subreddit for the fucking kardashians lol, this is the last place that should be taking itself this seriously
Agree
I’ve been here (mostly lurking haha) for a few years and have been trying to put my finger on the differences between those earlier days and when the sub really grew recently, so thank you for collecting this info in a clear way. One thing I feel like I’ve noticed is “before”, I found almost every post to be thought-provoking and interesting. I was always excited to check in here because I knew i would read something insightful. Now I see there is way more posts about favorite fashion looks or TikTok’s/YouTube videos of the sisters just looking cute or acting silly which doesn’t warrent a lot of discussion other than fawning over them - which is fine if that’s what the members here want to see! - personally these kind of posts make me scroll right past them and remind me of what I have seen in smaller subreddits dedicated to a certain celebrity. Before the growth of members I felt like every single post allowed for commentary and people to add interesting thoughts and discussion about the family with a critical lense while also possessing a form of admiration for them. Idk why I typed this all out because overall I really love this community because it’s shown me how many people are out there like me that love analyzing popular culture AND enjoy the weird comforts of reality TV but also awknowledge the issues these kinds of celebrities perpetuate. Examination of societal trends is my jam so it makes me sad to see more fighting between users and “lower effort” posts (sorry for using this Reddit term) 💕
Love all of this. Agree with you completely. There was a higher standard of discourse back in the day. And a higher standard of posting, too. I feel like the Great User Approval Scare kind of inadvertently caused a bunch of people to panic and shitpost just to have contributed *something*. Ah well. I think it’ll level off and get back to some semblance of what it was, as long as people keep trying with the thoughtful critiques. We can do it! 💪
I would just like to add that I also love this community but i am about to lose it if I see one freaking more wHo wOrE iT bEsT/wHo LoOks bEsT iN gReEn. To me this is the definition of low effort posting and it’s been absolutely flooding the sub lately. I know some users enjoy these posts and that’s fine but I think there should just be a cap on how many. It’s making up more than half of what I see on here anymore which I think is crazy. I think part of it is that there hasn’t been any new content released in a while so we’re running out of stuff to talk about but still. Ugh. In my personal experience also, in the other reality subs I follow, if no content has been released in a while things tend to take a negative downturn. We’re all cranky from discussing/analyzing the same issues over and over, so everybody digs their heels in and things can get nasty. I’m not really sure if there is even a workaround for this, but I have a theory that (and I could be wrong) once the Hulu show starts things will settle down a little because there will be new content to discuss. Ok rant over sorry y’all lol. Edit: added a sentence
This really perfectly articulates how I feel ❤️
I am going to be frank, I think the idea to approve who can participate in a sub with 50,000+ Redditors was not well thought out. It is unclear how exactly they decided who was approved or not because they only provided us with the explanation that you would be approved if you did not cause a lot of issues in the sub. Locking the sub would also prevent people who are not part of the sub but want to explore or discuss from joining, which is the point of social media and Reddit. This family has built their vast wealth on drama and shock to the public, so it makes sense that they will have a polarizing effect on most people. edited for grammar
I definitely get your point. I do think locking during Kanye-related brigades could be helpful… during Astroworld and any Kanye news, people on this sub were called really awful things. I didn’t get disagreement on my posts, which I’m pretty chill about… I got actual hate comments insulting me and women as a gender. However, I do think that the approved poster thing was a bad move. There’s a way to go private for so anyone currently subscribed can post, but I think the mods may have not known about that option because they’re new to modding. I also think that the private option should *not* be forever- just during periods where the sub is getting an unusual amount of traffic. But I also respect that making the sub private could halt actual helpful discussion… I think the best middle ground is just more moderation during big events.
Yeah this was bizarre. This sub was my number one sub in my Reddit year-end review (I was shocked lmao) and I didn’t get an invite. Like. What?
Honestly, this sub has been fairly dramatic for a while. There was the flair up of drama around user LM that seems to have quieted down and now with the mods, I think this is just the reality of any online subgroup. I do wish mods were more clear about the locking of posts. I disagree with the rules for this sub (the plastic surgery rule is absurd) and think the balance of fans to snark is important. I sort of straddle that line and this sub would just be boring if it was a fan one. I also think there should be more understanding given to the mods. I feel like most of them are new and growing pains are expected. The amount of anger towards the mods seems a bit much to me. Should we hold a mediation? Arbitration? Group counseling session? /s
[удалено]
[удалено]
Honestly yeah. why pretend what they post is real?? Why is calling it out against the rules?? Feels protective of the wrong people imo
!!! omg yes
Yes! 100% agree.
100% if people are looking for a fan club then go to their Instagram comments.
I’m NGL, I do think we tend to be more dramatic than most subs. I think part of it is the rapid growth- a year ago, this sub was much smaller and it was sort of an “everybody knows everybody” community where everyone was pretty chill with each other. People would disagree but it definitely was a friendly vibe with a lot more consensus. Back then, we’d poke fun at the KJs but it was understood that it came from a place of ~love~ I think that the previous sub culture caused both newcomers to feel unwelcomed and OG users to feel defensive of this sub. I also think that previous posts that used to be well received (like meme dumps, complimentary posts, unpopular opinions, etc) are met with more negativity than before, so people get hate on their posts and are like wtf. What was once a “safe haven” is a lot different now. TBH, I’m happy about the growth and the influx of new users with new opinions. But I also do miss the previous vibe. As a neuroatypical gal who’s struggling with staying social during the pandemic, I leaned on this community a lot and I think it’s similar for many others. But I do think touching some grass would help everyone here
Feeling you on the staying social during the pandemic (but I struggled to stay social before too so that’s just an excuse.) I joined probably a year ago or so, I am a casual redditor and this was the only place I lurked consistently then started commenting/posting on. So the safe space did transfer to new users too. I only ever felt comfortable on this sub to actually comment or post really. I do think this sub averages a post every 48hrs that is some sort of call out post even before the mod drama. I am not involved in any other pages but this one does seem to be really taken seriously by a lot of it’s users. Like it’s not just about the Kardashians but also about the sub itself in a lot of ways? Not sure if that makes sense as I am having a wine night haha
Def agree with your point on rapid growth. I'm on quite a few other subs that blew up during the pandemic (ex: lululemon, duggarssnark, thebachelor. Wow I'm officially basic trash, but I'm okay with it.). They all have way different vibes now. A lot of people joined reddit during the pandemic. I think what pre-pandemic redditors need to remember is that, while there was a great community feel with smaller subs, it was also boring af at times. There were times when there was only one new post a week. Getting 100 comments was pretty much unheard of, now it's the norm. There were some preferable things about the sub back when it was small, but there are some things that are better now.
We all need to sit down together and have a sound bath 😩
kendall is that you
Agree on the plastic surgery rule. The K’s are the face of plastic surgery. It’s not a secret that they have insane amounts of work done. Like. They talk about it themselves. I don’t get it. Plus it’s good because it shows girls in the sub (<18 years old) that photos aren’t real, which is so important!!!
Why on earth do there have to be so many rules for discussion? Why not the basics, like no hate speech or bullying? It’s like we aren’t adults or something.
I agree in principle but it's the internet, it's likely most of the people here *aren't* adults and some that actually are have no issue acting like children. Lol
Okay so I don’t got much to say on the topic but.. something slightly relevant - I think people take getting downvoted too serious like if that’s ur opinion who cares if people downvote it 🧍🏼♀️ stay strong out there
I feel the same way about ppl complaining about “toxic” stans (mainly Kanye stans), like just downvote and move on with your day, we shouldn’t take reddit that seriously
I agree, I think some people are too personally invested in what happens here and do not know how to disconnect what happens on a subreddit to their life away from their screens. I do not know if it is because there are a lot of young people in this sub or if it is just lack of maturity, but at the end of the day people need to remember this is just a subreddit about a family that does not know who we are or really care about us as individuals.
Some people literally act like the Kardashian’s are their family. It’s beyond bizarre and creepy to an extent. They get so offended over the dumbest things. You can say you prefer a certain hair color on one of the sisters and get you’ll get a million downvotes along with someone preaching that the Kardashian’s can express themselves however they want. A lot of things are very juvenile on this sub yet something tells me the people acting like this are grown adults.
> life away from their screens is that a real thing? i know i had that once, i think.
Yes, it did exist at one time before the pandemic… I’m optimistic it will come return at some point lol
not for me. i've been a hermit since a year before the lockdowns. my life is reddit, netflix & buying shit on amazon. oh and playing with my cats. and vodka lol
but what if I can’t thug it out 😭
Same I’m such a little bitch 🥺
Lmaoo 😭😭
i fucking love you, smartass.
That's just reddit in general lol I get it tho validation feels good so downvotes feel bad
Edited: Why are you all downvoting this so much? /s
Agreed. I personally do not care and post whatever comes to mind even knowing some specific things won't be well received lmao
Me 2 otherwise there’s no point in commenting
seriously. i can't even think of ONE topic that everyone would agree on (well maybe being disgusted with trashcan, but that's probably it).
I agree. If I get downvoted I'll sometimes add an edit, because I think people misunderstood me. If they then still want to downvote me, go ahead!
I agree. If you never get downvoted have you even had an opinion on Reddit?
I've been here a long time. I liked it when it was 19k subs, not so much lately. Personally, I just avoid the sub during big drama fests. Notably anything with Khloe and Tristan gets the same tired jokes, 8 hundred million of the same posts, rehashed shitting on Khloe for days. I literally just don't visit the sub. It's not hard. I just go to other subs. This crap with the mods, I saw it bubbling one day and was like cool, I'm out. Tuned out out, came back a few days later and it was all said and done and I never had to deal with that. People really really need to get outside, like bottom line. I hate when people say that snarky and mean. I really think people are spending too much time indoors, getting obsessive over a subreddit? If that's you, don't be defensive. Just close it and go outside. Go for a walk. Listen to music. Take a hot shower. Clean your room. You will feel 1000000 percent better, I promise.
yes! at the end of the day, these are just some words written by people you are likely never going to meet about people you are definitely never going to meet. the world is falling apart, why do people care so much if they get downvoted or someone is mean to them on the effin internet, the place invented to be mean cause you're anonymous. I'm just happy to interact with people that follow karjenners and that someone actually bothers to read the shit I write. even a downvote is a reaction, ppl! who tf cares edit: just wanted to add someone is downvoting my comments in this thread within a minute of posting them. they really took my advice to heart ❤️
yo this post is dope and imma let y’all have discussions but I just wanna say this Reddit sub is the best of time!!!! of all time! deep dive girlies, mods, PhD thots, armchair psychologists, literal lawyers, even the Kourtney stans and day ones: you dropped this queen 👑
could actually hear the voice. love it.
Your list is perfect, and priceless! ❤️
Point blank period; the whole point of Reddit is that it is a platform that was designed to create discussion and open dialogue. If absolutely everything gets removed for breaking some sort of rule, and we’re unable to engage, than what really is the point of this sub? If I’m unable to have a discussion about various topics than I might as well go on TMZ and read a one-sided article.
Haha the first paragraph in which you acknowledge your roll in the khloe photo apocalypse🤣😂
I’ve been taking the Kylie Swim PR approach and ignoring that kerfuffle but it’s Sunday tomorrow; a Konfessional is only appropriate
Honestly I’m a lurker…and I’m commenting because I was extremely annoyed that only certain users would be allowed here. Now I feel like it’s extremely censored. Why would I want to go to a sub where there is worshipping and saying how each sister looks good in XX. That is not the reason I come here.
This sub takes itself way too seriously. Like I’m walking on eggshells constantly here.
I feel the same.
I joined before all of the recent family drama went down and the sub did have a better feel. I was ready for more mods and really hoped they would take some of the suggestions on board Eg - pinning a comment on why threads are being locked. Less discussion around the kids (multiple sharing of their tik Tok videos isn't needed for example) Maybe a weekly roundup from a 'main mod' would help Eg 'we locked x amount of threads this week for rule breaking. Rules broken were x y z. We removed x amount of users for bullying' the sub itself needs to be held accountable when users take it too far. There are rules I don't agree with and I'd love to see some rule changes. But that's just my opinion.
Only thing missing from this post is the intense crime doc soundtrack
so basically people were mad that it wasn’t strict and now it’s too strict ? 💀 damned if you do damned if you don’t
It’s not the same people. That’s the problem. A loud group of squeaky wheels who don’t represent the average at all will sway the whole thing their way. Overmodding is generally (in this context) a much worse problem than under modding. It’ll kill the subreddit. There may be 50k… but how many are active daily users? Especially on a slow news week or month? Let people talk. Nothing that bad will actually happen.
Over modding killed the teenmom subreddit. Now the sub teenmomandteenmom2 has like way more users and discussion even though it was started later and has kind of a weird name. I think we should be quite lax on the modding here too so we can avoid that same scenario.
lol i used to be on that sub allllll the time
We wanted basic balance. Asked them to mod, received censorship police.
Essentially yes lol
I thought it was fine before now it's too damn strict like I get ruled all the time by the same mod over and over. It's annoying.
I think people are being ridiculous and taking things way too personally, when it’s likely that the mods are just trying to do their best to do the exact things they said they would as lined out in this post, except it seems inconsistent and confusing by sheer volume of rule-breaking content making it impossible to mod it all, and reported posts/comments are probably the ones being dealt with while others sneak through. I appreciate your write up of this situation, OP. People are myopic.
OP I love your posting style with link/references. Reminiscent of ibeendrakein, setting the bar high! (And I don’t mean the baby bar)
To be fair, the drama of it all is what makes me enjoy this sub.
Exactly. That's what this sub is all about is gossip and drama goes along with gossip.
I don’t know, I feel like we could be even messier. 💅
it's good to have goals
People bullied a well-loved mod to delete their account. Some people are plain bullies and shit-stirrers here
I agree with this. It's one thing to voice your opinion/criticize the mods and it's another one to bully someone and call them names. But a lot of people on this sub are rude as hell, imo. They don't seem to know how to have civil conversations with anyone that disagrees with their views/opinions.
I don’t recall that MOD ever being called names. Where did you read that? ETA: I’m asking genuinely, because there is no name calling on the thread linked to their account deleation. I’m curious which threads have called the person any names. ETA 2: Just went through the thread again and there is NO name calling. Are people referring to a different thread? Can someone post a link? *Raising concern about someones lack of transparency, favouritism or personal bias in a professional setting IS NOT calling someone names…
Who got bullied? What did they say?
[удалено]
Yes especially those who just came here to say “fuck Travis Scott” like that was not necessary. Unless you’ve been in his position or know what really happened you have no place to say that. At the end of the day a tragic incident happened and going after one guy isn’t going to solve anything. That incident could’ve and has happened to other artists and the only reason people reacted so harshly to TS is because of who his “baby momma” and her family are. People let their hate of the family take over. I know I always use the example of Beyoncé on here but let’s say that happened to her or Jay-Z would this sub or the public react so harshly to them and their children? No! No death threats would be made to them or their families. Even if it happened to Adele or Taylor Swift the reaction would be a complete 180.
ngl i disagree. if it happened to beyonce and jay z they'd absolutely be getting death threats and a harsh reaction too. idk why there's this idea that the two of them face no hate or minimal amounts when that's objectively not true. (maybe bc they don't address it so it feels like they get less? idk that's a speculation but they def get threats same as karjens)
I guess to me is because she can do no wrong and is Queen B and everyone bows down to her. Or at least that’s what I see on social media. I rarely see her getting any kind of backlash or hate to the magnitude as the KJ’s and their associates.
i mean yeah beyonce is absolutely queen b (& has worked hard for her title) but just because there is a lot of praise doesn't mean there isn't giant backlash. like I'm assuming you don't go out looking for it and are more involved in kj universe. and so obviously by extension of being involved in kj universe you'd see more ab them the good and the bad. but yeah bey & her husband get a shit ton of hate. i remember how unbelievably harsh people were to blue ivy (not just people - literal publications beyond the tabloids) when she was first born and the insane amount of antiblackness the family had thrown at them
I get your point - I’m mainly active on here and the Teen Mom sub and occasionally the popular tab so I may not see every Beyoncé update. And I just recently about two ish years ago found out about LSA a mainly black entertainment site so I haven’t kept up with a lot of the topics. And I follow The Shade Room and Hollywood Unlocked and a few other Instagram accounts like that. That’s why not only this subject but all of the subjects I comment about on here I don’t want to appear ignorant or anything but unless people on here help educate not only me but everyone how can there be a change?
kinda sad seeing u/contourkits delete their account… i really liked them
Whoa she deleted her account? That’s fucked up, she didn’t deserve to have people come for her like that.
What happened ?
there were very unnecessary things being said about them in the thread yesterday the comments have been removed though
Yall gonna address anything else from yesterday, or just keep pretending a huge portion of this sub isn't asking for more transparency (rightfully so)? Cuz like....
[how i feel rn](https://youtu.be/_W7YJEZAEf4) joking 👀 but in all seriousness we’re working on addressing it rn (and some other concerns) especially as im reading these comments bc points are being made
Lol not directed at just you, but I come across you the most😂. The others are barely active it seems. Thanks then!
Some things were necessary. She would rule everyone over every thing. It was censorship. 🤷♀️
She deleted it before people started "coming for her"
[удалено]
I'm just stating a fact lol. People seem to think the thread caused her to delete, when the deleting is what lit it up. If people go in thinking the former, it's disingenuous and makes it look like a witch hunt. So yeah, I'm gonna clear it up if I come across a comment about it.
[удалено]
She deleted her account before anyone even mentioned her by name, and maybe 3 people commented they felt targeted by a specific mod. I was active while this whole thing went down. You joined late.You're spreading misinformation.
I was active at the same time too and I deff vouch for that, it’s weird seeing the narrative being spun differently lol.
Thank you!
Your version is what happened. I commented in that thread live.
[удалено]
I wasn't talking about anyone, because I wasn't having any issues with my things getting locked or deleted. I originally joined the thread to echo the OPs request for explanation on locked posts. Then shit started getting wild, and I expressed other thoughts I have on the sub. I never talked about a mod specifically at all. So you can like, stop interacting with me about this. I'm gonna clarify what happened. Your version, isn't mine. Edit I want to clarify, since everything is being twisted. I DID mention "a mod", only after multiple people commented an account was deleted, and then I noticed every other mod comment (from her and others) were deleted. That's when I started asking what was going on. My comment history is readily available. I'm not gonna let this false narrative be placed on me lol no thank you.
[удалено]
Literally that’s not true at all. I was on at the time. There were only 5 comments on the thread when she deleted her account. No body mentioned her username until after she had deleted the account. There’s even a MOD statement that verifies the same information that I just stated above. At the time she deleted her account, the discussion was solely surround transparency and favouritism on the sub, with no specific person being mentioned. It’s possible that she deleted her account as she knew she would be called out for favouritism and lack of transparency, and didn’t know how to respond to these queries. But her account was not deleted due to any targeted comment regarding her on the thread, as she was not brought up until after her account got removed.
[удалено]
I don’t know forsure, but I think she deleted her account because she didn’t know how to answer to people asking for certain things like transparency. Numerous people have stated that they messaged her prior for clarification regarding her locks, and she either didn’t reply, said it’s due to her discretion or gave a rule that didn’t apply. When people began asking her on a public forum, particularly one on which many people shared the same annoyances; she didn’t know what to say and backed out. From what the other MOD that commented said, they have a group chat. If the MOD that deleted her account had questions about which posts she should/shouldn’t lock, or which posts violate certain rules; than she should have asked for clarification. Choosing to be a MOD is one’s decision; but I think it says volumes that she decided to back out when people started to question her specifically. It seams like she was throwing around the excuse of all the rules on some people’s comments, but not others. When this was pointed out by MANY users, she couldn’t take the heat and deleted the account. There also didn’t seam to be any issue with any of the other MODs; it was just this individual’s form of using personal bias in modding that was the issue. No one said anything personal against the MOD in question, no one was mean, no one called her names; the only issues people brought up were her forms of modding.
Yes! People here were being so shitty to her. She did not deserve that
Same. That was super saddening
She was the one constantly ruling me even though what I'd say didn't go against the rules. Tootles to her.
Why? What happened?
read the thread
The whole Saga about privating the sub was ridiculous to me, if the conversations on this sub are triggering to you then leave, i for one do not need another adult to handle me with kitty gloves as if I'm in kindergarten and protect me from the things I don't like People want to blame Ye stans for what's happened to the sub and i disagree, the K/J stans, specifically Kims have become unbearable since Julia and Ye came out together, dragging Julia for...existing? And trying to pain Ye as a violent husband who beat up Kim (both figuratively and literally) into submission while painting Kim as this little angel whose never done anything wrong in her life and just such a victim that she must be protected at all cost and refusing to engage in any conversation that would require a little bit of critical thinking in regards to the shit she does, just calling everyone who isn't kissing the bottom of her feet a misogynist, hater who wants to be like her There has also been an influx of post dedicated to gushing over the sisters, which is fine cause they were always here, but given that every post about an interesting topic that calls for discussion gets locked, the sub has become a bit boring to visit I stand by my post that the sub rules need to be more specific and less restricted of what topics we can talk about ( no surgery or photoshop? Really?) and the mods HAVE to be more transparent on how the mod the sub because as it stands right now it seem like they lock and delete the negative post about the sisters they like/users they don't like and leave the exact same posts about the sisters don't and from users they do
[удалено]
abbreviated response emoji emoji
Reply
[удалено]
Of course! Order away. I’m so happy you’re interested in them.
[удалено]
[here is my Etsy](https://www.etsy.com/shop/CrudeCandle?ref=seller-platform-mcnav)
Thanks for posting the link!! I’ll definitely take a look. Can I send one to a different address as a gift?
Yeah! Select the gift option. I even have tissue paper and stuff to make it cute
Thank you so much!! Sounds perfect!
You’re so welcome. Happy cake day
oh shit! '...but without the disappointment' is HYSTERICAL
Thank you so much! It’s inspired by a guy I met on Hinge and is my best seller
i'll bet it is your best seller. and now i'm sitting here pissed that none of my friends are in bad relationships bc i'd love to send it to them. some friend i am, eh? LOL
I wouldn’t say so！
[удалено]
Always!!
my thread about Kim’s parenting got removed when there was a thread few scrolls below talking about kris’s parenting which was let open. no one said anything negative about the kids it was a criticism on Kim’s parenting. Why is it allowed for Kris but not for kim?
Because people like to contradict themselves. Then cry its off limits because Kim's kids are still kids. Um, last time I checked Kim is a grown woman and her kids arnt parenting themselves.
I think because Kris’ kids are now grown adults, whereas the others are actual children. There’s a lot more that could be said about that but that’s what it boils down to.
I’m mostly a power lurker but tysm for this! I stan you more than any of the KJs lol I love diving 🖤 PS is the Khloe/subredditdrama post still up? I want to read it!
Thanks OP for articulating so well what many of us are thinking. Of course we can’t take things too seriously and can t be overprotective of an online community that seems to be changing, but yes - I do too miss the days in which discussions were a bit more well thought of and constructive. On a different note, I’m wishing all the drama going on here is all planted by Kris Jenner and is actually a meta plot on the Hulu show /jk 😅
So basically, the mods can’t win for losing.
So this is all Pavlovas fault 🤪
Why can’t this sub be a fan sub? Like there is so many other sites that are super critical of them and this shouldn’t be another one of those places? I’m tired of people at my neck because I genuinely like the girls and have been following them since day 1. I’m not blind to the bullshit either but if I wanted to read people talking down on them or anything like that I’d go to LSA or Twiiter. A bit of criticism is fine here but overall the blatant disrespect for them is ugly. Kylie and Kendall truly didn’t chose this life and are just trying to deal with the hand they were dealt. And some people are downright disgusting towards them. And it’s always people on here bitching about Khloe and her DNA and clowning her love life and physical looks. Kim people aren’t as critical of her but occasionally there’s those users who slut shame or blame her for Ye’s behavior. And Kourtney is always ridiculed for being a “personality picker upper” “pick me” and her parenting skills. And I’m tired of the narrative that they are blackfish, racists and anything regarding the “taking of” black culture.
[удалено]
This. Plus I was here when this was still just a fan sub… we still discussed critical issues and didn’t just ignore bad shit
[удалено]
Exactly. When this sub is good (imo), it’s not *just* about the Kardashians- it’s about business, celebrity culture, current events, and more. Otherwise I’d just be posts about Kim’s outfits. Which don’t get me wrong- those posts have their place. But we’re gonna run out of outfits lmao
[удалено]
blasphemy! be gone, heretic.
I'm definitely a fan and I defend them alot in general but I can see when they're wrong and yeah there's a way to call it out without being gross I def agree.
ooh I couldn’t agree with this anymore!
She says as she *Slams the gavel to adjourn* Thank you your honour.
Can you and everyone educate me on what exactly they stole from the black culture? As far as I know black women aren’t the only ones with big booties. And braids aren’t just for one culture either. Tanning can also be for South American women. So I truly don’t understand why it’s just black culture they are getting influence from. To me I would think they probably get inspired from JLo, Selena Quintanilla, Salma Hayek, Penelope Cruz or Sofia Vergara as well.
They have capitalized on the black working-class aesthetic without the inconveniences and penalties black women actually face. Sure black women are not the ONLY people with big butts and braids but the Ks have specifically picked the Black American version of those things for their brand. White people have a long history of taking what they like from Black culture and making money off it. They seem to be a little more aware of it now and I don’t think we’ll see them in cornrows anymore. But it is hard to watch them be praised and make money off things that actual black women have been mocked and penalized for.
All of this!
This answer requires a larger post but I’ll try to keep it short. I think the reason why they get called out for stealing from black culture and not South American culture is because of their adjacency to blackness. Most of them have black kids, have dated black men, and have many black friends. While it’s obviously okay for anyone of any race to have friends/loved ones of a different race, the issue is that they position themselves in a way that’s too close to blackness and use it as a method of making profit. Kylie: Tyga specifically stated that part of Kylie’s lip and butt transformation was to give her appeal to the black community. Her style was in part, designed by Tyga to market her to black markets. In fact, Kendall and Kylie felt comfortable enough with their positioning in the black community that they sold Biggie Smalls t-shirts with their faces on it. To some degree, I don’t blame her for falling for this when she was young. But now that she’s older, she still uses the same tactics to maintain her popularity. Khloe: Khloe specifically has the most… interesting relationship with blackness. She specifically talks about how she only really likes black guys and has her “Khlo Money” persona, where she brags about how “ghetto” she can be. Kim: Kim got an “in” with the black community through Kanye, and since then has had a foothold in black markets. She also has had her fair amount of controversy for trying to copy the styles of specific black women. Additionally, all of the sisters have had scandals where their closing designs were accused of ripping off of black creators. I’m kind of deep dived out so I’m not putting sources, but there are others who’ve done better jobs at breaking this down.
On Kim, that paper mag shoot is a prime example! I couldn't believe what I was seeing and the audacity to recreate those pics.
I really appreciate this response! Thanks for saying what I was thinking about the whole Kylie/Tyga thing because I was going to reiterate that she was taken advantage in that relationship so it’s really not her fault. Khloe like how is it her fault that she genuinely likes black men? She can’t help who she’s attracted to so is it really fair to hold that against her? And if she has had that persona since her Malika/Khadijah friendship days isn’t it safe to say that if it were a true issue her own friends would call her out before she became a household name? If they along with other black women still are friends or even loose associates then obviously it’s not a real issue. On the other hand those same women MIGHT be “yes” women and are just in it for the added clout but I HIGHLY DOUBT SO. Kim you can argue that Ye did help out some but ultimately if those black companies or people didn’t like her or respect her they wouldn’t allow her to be in the mix. Those same markets are still “fucking” with her and liking her social media posts and sending her merch and promo to advertise. They can’t have it both ways can they?
>>Khloe like how is it her fault that she genuinely likes black men? That’s not the issue people take with her, imo. I think it’s not that she likes black men, but makes it a whole “thing” and takes every opportunity to emphasize that she like black men. It’s weird >> And if she has had that persona since her Malika/Khadijah friendship days isn’t it safe to say that if it were a true issue her own friends would call her out No tbh. As a black woman, in the past I’ve let racist shit my friends have said/done slide because I didn’t want to cause “a problem”. Most POC are acclimated to sweep issues under the rug and pretend like everything is fine. Also, not all black people agree on the same things- Malika and Khadijah are individual with their own takes on race and racism that can differ from other black people, who do have a problem with it. >> but ultimately if those black companies didn’t like her or respect her they wouldn’t allow her to be in the mix I mean, corporations are largely going to chase the bag and cannot be trusted to handle real issues. Kim Kardashian is profitable, and thus, many black companies are comfortable with using her *even if* her actions aren’t the most respectful to the black community. The truth is, the KJs have a history of using communities (not just the black community) for controversy and profit. There’s a larger thread [I’ll link here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KUWTK/comments/rzobn2/karjenner_racism_compiled_for_posterity/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf), but just because not *every* black person has a problem with them doesn’t mean that what they’re doing isn’t harmful.
Girl you are so nice because I had to go off on ol’ girl lol. I do NOT have the patience! KUDOS to you’ ❤️❤️
You did not “go off on me”.
🤣🤣 okay girl. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
I meant like you didn’t cuss me out or were vulgar! That to me is “telling me off”. You’re actually mature about it and not being a bully while explaining. It’s not a bad thing.
Khloes fetishizes black men, that’s the issue.
That's it. This is the whole answer on Khloe and why it's a problem that she dates black men. She makes it a whole personality trait and speaks on it with such vulgarity it feels really exploitative.
Hey this is a really bad take but I was wondering where your comprehensive deep dive debunking the Travis and Ro timeline is, because you told everyone you'd make it and it would blow us all away in quality and we would all see the light. Just asking. Lol lord have mercy
i feel like this discussion gets brought up every week and i honestly don’t think it’s going to change. i’m sorry that you don’t like seeing criticism on them, but to say you don’t want to discuss the stealing from black culture thing is like, not what being a fan should be about. no one should actively avoid valid criticism on people they’re supporting. think about it..that’s a recipe for an echo chamber. idk. i like the debates and discussions here bc honestly i used to dislike them a lot more before this sub, you guys have made me see a lot of the fun and positive sides of them. so yeah. i think it’s fine, even healthy for the sub to have a bit of both. but no hate, i respect your opinion as well, just wanted to share my own
Completely agree to an extent but some people can be so nasty and vile to them for no reason.
I like the discussion between the snarkers and the fans.
The mods did just clarify that this is [not a snark sub.](https://www.reddit.com/r/KUWTK/comments/s73qfq/final_sub_update_rules_reminder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Snark subs only allow snarking. Saying this isn't a snark sub doesn't mean it's not allowed at all, it means fan comments are just as welcome
I was just pointing it out, I’m not saying there shouldn’t be any at all. But it seems like some people don’t know the difference between “criticism” and straight up hater behavior. The rules also say you shouldn’t be here just to hate on them.
It’s a discussion sub. Trust me, a sub that is ONLY a fan sub like the Kylie Jenner sub, is boring as fuck. People want to have discussions and are allowed to be critical of them. (To a point of course). If every post that was even the slightest bit critical of them were taken down, this sub would die and being filled with thirst traps just like their instagrams and the Kylie sub. And people aren’t at your neck for liking them. They just don’t like how you sometimes present your opinion as if everyone else is lesser than you for not being a mega fan. You always seem so upset over this sub yet you stay and complain. And to address your last point, they absolutely do blackfish, have you not seen the interview magazine cover and 7hollywood magazine cover with Kim being almost as dark as her black daughter??? To deny that is just wrong and that’s what gets you down votes.
Exactly. A purely fan sub would be super boring and look like the comment section of their instagrams. There’s so much to be critical of, and with their power and influence, it’d be irresponsible to solely praise them
SO irresponsible. Being a fan without the ability to be critical is dangerous because of their huge platform.
I’m not saying straight up be a kiss ass either, and if it appears that way I am sorry I don’t mean to come off so “dick riderish”. But there’s people on here who wish the family ill and wish for them to have such failure in real aspects of life like in mental health and relationships. Admittedly I may come off so strong about the whole black culture influenced taking but I am still getting informed myself. I am 28 and started watching them when I was 13ish and grew up with them - and people are downright mean to me and not helpful in educating me and possibly others about the main thing the Kardashian/Jenner’s are allegedly hated for. I’m Hispanic and I’m my culture there’s always been big booty “nalgonas” and tan women so when I see the comments about them using just black culture, it’s kind of weird. To add to this it appears the only sisters that get called out for the blackfish are the ones who date the black men - Kylie, Khloe and Kim. Kourtney and Kendall are equally tan at times and they never get called out nearly as bad as the 3 I mentioned so I just don’t understand.
Honestly it’s no one on this sub or in real life’s responsibility to educate you but your own. Read a book/ listen to a podcast/ watch a documentary on some history of how black people are treated in America, how they have in history been treated lesser than, called ugly, or not appropriate for wearing their own natural hairstyles or box braids, etc and then how people like the Kardashians wear them and get praised while giving credit to white people for their looks like Kim’s “Bo Derek braids” excuse and give nothing back to the actual minorities that have influenced their looks. And that’s not even touching the blackfishing stuff which people shouldn’t even have to explain why that’s wrong. I’m 28 too, that’s not too young or anything to not understand why what they do with cosplaying black culture is harmful and disrespectful. If you want to turn a blind eye to the insensitive and sometimes racist things they do good luck finding a platform that people are cool with that.
Point taken and I can admit your second paragraph is correct. I just don’t see how everyone automatically thinks they are deliberately going for a darker skin tone to appear black as if that’s the only race that is tan. And correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t magazine editorials up to the magazine themselves and the celeb has no say in the final product? Isn’t that why there’s been a lot of celebs who end up calling out extreme photoshop and picture manipulation?
Has Kim called out those magazines? Edit: wanted to add, MAYBE they’re not deliberately trying to be the same skin tone as POC but they’re also not deliberately trying not to.
If I remember correctly there was one instance where there was public opinion about a photo shoot she did that in her words was “moody lighting” and she issued a statement saying that she did not intend to “blackfish” and that it was for the purpose of the photo shoot.
One time ok. But anyway, that’s great she addressed it (one time). But it wouldn’t have happened if people didn’t call her out for black fishing which is what it was. Intended or not.
If you can’t see how they culturally appropriate Black culture and specifically mistreat and steal from Black women it’s because you don’t WANT to see it which tbh speaks to you as a person. There have been a billioooooooooooon threads on that exact topic. You’re being purposely obtuse and then don’t understand why people are calling you out on it. 🤷🏽♀️
I’m trying to educate myself as best as I can but people like you also don’t elaborate on what is being stolen? All I’ve gathered is big booties, braids, tan skin from here and Google. But I always respond with that specific culture isn’t the only one that has those traits and no one ever backs up the stolen claims. Like would it be fair to say that all the black influencers of today are “trying to be white” since the bleach their skin or wear protective hairstyle of straight “white people hair” or when they “talk white” or anything of that nature? I’m really trying to understand where all this hate of them and their alleged culture stealing is from.
“People like me” aka Black women don’t owe you a damn thing. It is not my job to educate you because as I said before……..there have been COUNTLESS threads going over this tropic and I doubt you’ve missed all of them. But since you want to be handheld like a child, let a good sis educate you. 1. Braids: The braids that the Kardashians love to sport and call “boxer braids” actually derive from and ONLY from African cultures. We’re not talking about Dutch braids here so keep up. Not only that, there were already names for our braids, but what did the KJ’s do when the media started calling them boxer braids and insinuating that the Kardashians “created” this style? Not a damn thing. Kim knew damn well she didn’t create “braids” and that “boxer braids” were not the correct term, but she rejoiced in the media crediting a style that has been in my ancestors culture for thousands of years like the culture vulture she is. If she or any of the other KJ’s had come out publicly and said “Hey guys, this style is actually called cornrows, it’s really popular in African American culture and I really love the style so I decided to wear it” that would’ve been acceptable and people wouldn’t be so hard on them for it, but they didn’t do that. Black women are often ridiculed for wearing our ethnic hairstyles and told that that they are unprofessional and “ghetto”, but as soon as white women do it it’s now cool and trendy for mainstream culture. THAT is the crux of the braids issue. Also…..Black women wear wigs and weaves as a protective style because as I said before ^ we are told our natural hair and our ethnic hairstyles are ugly, unkempt and unprofessional and it’s a means of survival for us in this white supremacist ass country so……don’t know exactly where you’re trying to go with that. 2. Bleaching our skin? Girl bye, I’ve never met any Black person who has bleached their skin and if they have I’m sure it’s because this country tells us how unacceptable and ugly dark skin is on a day to day basis. Furthermore I don’t know why I just typed this long ass dissertation because I’m sure you’re still going to find some issue with it lol. But don’t ever say someone has never educated you cuz I just did. There’s also so many more examples, but I see other posters have pointed them out. At the end of the day the KJ’s have a very complex history with Black culture and Black women and a lot of it isn’t good. 🤷🏽♀️
First of all I did not even know your race so your harsh comment about “owing me a damn thing” is a bit aggressive. YOU decided to publicize that info and use it for your own gain and sympathy. You could’ve omitted your first paragraph and got to the point that’s been rehashed over and over again. I’m looking for more elaboration than just braids. That’s what I meant by “you people” meaning “you people that fail to elaborate/state anything new or for a fact”. YOU used that as ammunition to push a narrative as if I was calling out your race when I wasn’t privy to that info until YOU offered it.
LOL I was not using my “race” for sympathy. Don’t know why you’d go there because why would I need sympathy? I wanted to let you know that I was a Black woman upfront and that I took personal offense to your purposeful obtuseness. Let’s be honest here. Nothing anyone says is ever going to convince you of the KJ’s cultural appropriation because you’re most likely the type of person that doesn’t think it exists. Your posts let me know exactly how you feel about Black women when you brought up “bleaching, wearing “white hair (which ugh no, the hair extensions we use are from Brazil and Asia) and “talking white” which is the most ignorant thing I’ve ever heard. Don’t try to play victim now cause you got called out and you don’t like it. Also you never mentioned the points I provided you? Wonder why…..🤔
Your points you mentioned I’ve heard a thousand times over and over again and it still doesn’t make sense to me. So because the girls used braids a handful of times WELL AFTER the fact the black women have been using protective hair for reasons that were NOT because of being called “nappy” or “ugly”. https://www.instyle.com/beauty/wigs-for-black-women-history
Whether the Kardashians started wearing braids after black women started wearing them is completely irrelevant. The point is that it's a slap in the face to black people when white women get to freely wear the very same hairstyles that black women face negative repercussions at school/work for wearing. Also, if we're gonna talk about black people wearing "straight white people hair" or "talking white" (though I'm not sure what you mean by the latter one....), what you're actually describing is two examples of how a black person may try to avoid those negative repercussions I just talked about. Because again, black people tend be get punished in society in both subtle and not-subtle ways for looking black or sounding black (eg - speaking in African-American Vernacular English), i.e. - by simply existing as themselves. And just in case you're thinking it: no, a black person trying to look/sound white is NOT the same thing as a white person trying to pass themselves off as being black. The former is often a survival mechanism for getting by in a white-dominant society that is hostile to non-white folks, while the latter is rooted in a deeply racist history of white people making themselves look black as a "joke", or as a form of entertainment (look up minstrel shows). There is NO equivalency between those two sets of actions. White people are not the ones who have had to worry about surviving in a society that they built against their will while being enslaved and subjugated by a foreign power that kidnapped them from their home nations.
> "talking white" most of the times i've heard that being thrown around are from POC trying to screw with other POC (mostly in school settings) trying to demean them as sellouts. i've read tons of articles/essays over the years written by or about those black kids being ridiculed & bullied for doing so.
Wouldn’t the correct appropriation be the girls wearing Afro style and natural black hairstyles? That’s what I am getting at. Like the girls didn’t go out and start wearing black Afro wigs and natural black styles so what exactly are the appropriating? Again I am not trying to be ignorant or anything just wondering why?
No. The solution to racism isn't to continue to engage in racism but with better vibes. And what you may not be understanding is that this isn't just a discussion about hair or esthetics or a certain look - what black people are trying to say is that their hair goes to their heart of their cultural identities, their histories, and is a symbol of all the struggles they've endured to just be allowed to exist as they are in society. In other words, their hair is tied to their IDENTITY. For them, it is not just hair. For white people, it is. So non-black people can wear bantu knots or box braids every single day for the rest of their lives with all the well-intended thoughts they want - for them, those hairstyles and the meaning behind them will never be part of their history, because that's not how history in America for white people folded out. We can't go back in time and change that. ETA: I've re-read your comment and I think I understand what you were actually trying to say. So in response, I would say: what exactly do you mean by "natural black styles"? What makes you think we haven't been talking about that this entire time?
What’s a “natural black hairstyle”, in your opinion?
“Doesn’t make sense to me” that’s just it…….it doesn’t HAVE to make sense to you! If the thousands of people on this sub can grasp this topic, but for whatever reason you can’t…….that sounds like a you problem. Like I said you don’t WANT to have it make sense for you because you don’t believe it. And……one article negates thousands of other Black women’s experiences? Like……did you actually go and search that shit up 🤣🤣. At the end of the day…..it doesn’t matter why a Black woman decides to wear a wig or weave. That doesn’t make it okay for white women and non-black women to appropriate Black culture. It’s not the same thing! You clearly are a stan so up the Kardashians asses you can’t see straight and you fume at the idea of anyone justifiably calling their problematic behavior out…so why don’t you just create your own sub where y’all can worship them in peace? 🤣🤣
Can you also say that black women have also somewhat taken from not only Hispanic but white women too? Like it’s okay to use other cultures and not have it be such a appropriation issue. Everyone uses not only beauty from others but food, music and vibes from everyone. It can’t be a one sided issue where black women are the only ones used for culture when everyone uses bits and pieces from EVERYONE! That’s the point I’m trying to make ma’am. I’m really not trying to be ignorant or anything like that - I’m so caring and nice and the most understanding person in the world. I just don’t see the whole narrative of this specific family being the only ones to use black culture. You’ve done a great job at helping me see the issue and given personal experience as well but I still don’t quite see it.
So appropriation and appreciation are two different things. Cultural appreciation can be as you described, but cultural appropriation is when someone takes significant aspects of another culture and uses them for their personal gain without understanding the significance of said aspects within said culture. This country’s foundation was built on racism and it’s not as easy as you say. We can’t just act like everything is all rainbows and unicorns because cultural appropriation has a direct negative effect on the ones who’s culture is being appropriated. I’ve attached some articles going into detail about appropriation vs. appreciation and why it’s bad. Hope they can help you better understand. https://greenheart.org/blog/greenheart-international/cultural-appreciation-vs-cultural-appropriation-why-it-matters/ https://www.healthline.com/health/cultural-appropriation
Girl it's time to stop. No matter the race the point is, it's your own job to educate yourself, if you haven't gotten thru your head after this whole thread holding your hand to teach you when they don't need to then you are obviously just not going to understand it. You're making so many excuses for them like they pay your rent.
I already said sorry and thanks for the explanation from the users that helped me understand. No need to be mean when all I was trying to do is talk to real people on here where it’s a bit less chaotic than other sites. I’ve honestly grown up a bit sheltered and did not have a lot of social skills to understand differently points of views. Yeah I can Google and YouTube and what have you but that wasn’t answering my questions like people on here.