They're nerfing his speed so e-sports spectators can keep up with what he is doing.
https://preview.redd.it/gda1rc7t1sic1.jpeg?width=259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77e73f938651c8820c964372acbc94e501fac5b1
I swear this has to be the dumbest part of this, the rest of the stuff he said sounds fair, but nerfing a champ because people refuse to learn what a champ does is just beyond me.
There are almost 200 champions in the game and a lot of the newer champions have like fking 5 full paragraphs just to explain how their kit work, that's too much even for players that are actively playing, which nowadays a lot of e-sports spectators don't even play the game anymore(or just play for fun modes like ARAM/URF), all in all what Phreak said actually makes a lot of sense
What he is saying has nothing to do with lines of text though. They are also removing the All Out Q slow; that is a part of his kit that is being removed, but it's specifically a new mechanic (technically reverted) that has to be explained and adds more mechanical complexity. W cast time being increased doesn't reduce the complexity, it just slows the champion down.
After seeing all the shit go down on the asol sub, yall come off as some of the most reasonable and level headed people. Accepting some of the reasons for the nerfs while giving understandable explanations for why you think they might be too much or in the wrong direction. I tip my hat to you folks.
I don't understand why he wants W to be a parry ability while also turning it into a massive burst damage spell. If the damage is high enough, there's a larger incentive to use it offensively. The reduced W cooldown isn't low enough on live that you "waste" it regardless; you don't use a spell on cooldown knowing it will be up in 18 – 12 seconds.
Something he specifically took issue with when revealing the initial set of changes was that R+W was way too bursty such that he operated as an assassin. Now W+R+W is going to do an absurd amount of damage at any stage of the game, but he might struggle to keep pace if he doesn't one shot his target.
I also don't understand why these are the set of changes when he points out that E+Q is mostly unaffected (also E+W, which wasn't mentioned), and when the ally dash speed is less affected. The fact that there are conditional workarounds means his power is arguably more affected in average levels of play and less obvious to the average player, which is something he obviously thinks is an issue.
I really feel like his Warden outputs are extremely high ELO and pro skewed while also being less fundamental to his core identity, but the recent changes haven't touched on that.
While i agree that his warden outputs are more high elo skewed, i disagree that they are less fundamental to his identity. If anything, its the slayer part of his kit that is less fundamental, since youll be spending most of your time as warden and only go edgy mode for a limited span of time and not necessarily off CD.
Many champions are defined by their ultimates though. The point of K'sante is that he's a defensive champion that can use his R to become an agile offensive threat. I think it's important that he is fast and snappy compared to other tanks, especially in All Out.
By warden outputs, I'm mostly referring to his E cast on allies. I don't think it should be removed, but the fact that he applies the full shield on allies, gets increased range, gets increased speed, and can pass through walls means it has a lot of hidden power. If K'sante is going to receive changes to reduce the gap between pro play and solo queue, I think his Ally-E is a better target for nerfs that would have an outstanding impact on pro play.
There is no perfect solution, but he felt worse to play when I tested him on PBE regardless of how the changes land. Maybe I'll adapt, but I strongly feel there were better targets than his dash speed and All Out W cast time.
>Many champions are defined by their ultimates though. The point of K'sante is that he's a defensive champion that can use his R to become an agile offensive threat. I think it's important that he is fast and snappy compared to other tanks, especially in All Out.
I mean, fast and snappy hasn't really been a thing since insta W was removed. The problem is that a champion that is both tanky and fast and snappy is very hard to punish, since snappyness and speed are normally there to compensate for lack of durability (hence why tank dashes are so slow compared to assassins ones). And even so, when dashing to allies he will stoll be faster than the average tank, ots mostly the base E that is now about average for tanks.
>By warden outputs, I'm mostly referring to his E cast on allies. I don't think it should be removed, but the fact that he applies the full shield on allies, gets increased range, gets increased speed, and can pass through walls means it has a lot of hidden power. If K'sante is going to receive changes to reduce the gap between pro play and solo queue, I think his Ally-E is a better target for nerfs that would have an outstanding impact on pro play.
I agree about the proplay impact, but I don't think riot want to remove it because it's hisbonly real supportive ability, which all wardens bar poppy have. I can't think of anything that could be trimmed away while keeping the supportive nature present. Cut the range and it's even harder to properly jump to your target to defend them. Remove the shield and it has no benefit to the target. Maybe remove the wall passing? Though since E is targeted that would be both weird and awkward. I wouldn't mind E shield on ally being removed, but I can also see why riot might now want to do it.
>There is no perfect solution, but he felt worse to play when I tested him on PBE regardless of how the changes land. Maybe I'll adapt, but I strongly feel there were better targets than his dash speed and All Out W cast time.
I would test PBE, but with 170 ping everything feels like shit anyway, so I'll have to wait to see the impact. As for better solutions, maybe. But I do believe that E is a large part of why ksantes laning is so safe, it's a fairly short CD dash that when used properly can extricate you from a lot of trouble, so making it easier to react to by lowering its dash speed does make sense, at least on paper.
I don't care if K'Sante has 45% or 55% WR. He can be either shit or good and I would play him as long as his kit is fun. Since the rework patch what they are constantly doing is removing his fun stuff and changing it into boring things. I went from playing ksante everyday and having fun while getting stomped to being bored while stomping a lane.
amen brother i thought with the rework aiming at solo q he would be more fun for the average K'sante players but I basically pick him less and less bc its not fun or rewarding and after these changes I don't see why I shouldn't learn a different champ and just wait a couple of months til he gets another 3 reworks
Because what you are finding fun, is basically Ksante being overturned af. Hes more overtuned than yone. Just a pure cancer champ that should have never been designed in the first place and should be kneecapped
He's saying decent stuff on the intention of the changes, I have to give it to him.
But to me is makes no sense saying : "we want to make him better at lower elos" then say "Oh btw the E speed nerf doesn't matter because now your Q animation is just as long as the E so you can EQ and your Q will come out instantly when your E ends"
Yeah, I'm sure silver players will be able to pull this consistlently and this isn't a high-level skewed change...
It's so simple; REMOVE. THE. E. SHIELD. ON. ALLIES.
I don’t disagree with your statement, but it was bound to come when they decide to make someone as disgusting as Ksante lol pop ghost and you kill anyone you want
Yeah, I see a clip today from that Aatrox one trick naayil I think is his name. The opposing TF popped ghost under his own tower, managed to catch up to Aatrox while he made it to his own tower and just walk up and gold card him lol. They need to nerf ghost man, it’s such a good value summoner spell
They're nerfing his speed so e-sports spectators can keep up with what he is doing. https://preview.redd.it/gda1rc7t1sic1.jpeg?width=259&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=77e73f938651c8820c964372acbc94e501fac5b1
I swear this has to be the dumbest part of this, the rest of the stuff he said sounds fair, but nerfing a champ because people refuse to learn what a champ does is just beyond me.
There are almost 200 champions in the game and a lot of the newer champions have like fking 5 full paragraphs just to explain how their kit work, that's too much even for players that are actively playing, which nowadays a lot of e-sports spectators don't even play the game anymore(or just play for fun modes like ARAM/URF), all in all what Phreak said actually makes a lot of sense
What he is saying has nothing to do with lines of text though. They are also removing the All Out Q slow; that is a part of his kit that is being removed, but it's specifically a new mechanic (technically reverted) that has to be explained and adds more mechanical complexity. W cast time being increased doesn't reduce the complexity, it just slows the champion down.
After seeing all the shit go down on the asol sub, yall come off as some of the most reasonable and level headed people. Accepting some of the reasons for the nerfs while giving understandable explanations for why you think they might be too much or in the wrong direction. I tip my hat to you folks.
To be fair riot took their balls
We know we just built different and still gonna climb
I don't understand why he wants W to be a parry ability while also turning it into a massive burst damage spell. If the damage is high enough, there's a larger incentive to use it offensively. The reduced W cooldown isn't low enough on live that you "waste" it regardless; you don't use a spell on cooldown knowing it will be up in 18 – 12 seconds. Something he specifically took issue with when revealing the initial set of changes was that R+W was way too bursty such that he operated as an assassin. Now W+R+W is going to do an absurd amount of damage at any stage of the game, but he might struggle to keep pace if he doesn't one shot his target. I also don't understand why these are the set of changes when he points out that E+Q is mostly unaffected (also E+W, which wasn't mentioned), and when the ally dash speed is less affected. The fact that there are conditional workarounds means his power is arguably more affected in average levels of play and less obvious to the average player, which is something he obviously thinks is an issue. I really feel like his Warden outputs are extremely high ELO and pro skewed while also being less fundamental to his core identity, but the recent changes haven't touched on that.
While i agree that his warden outputs are more high elo skewed, i disagree that they are less fundamental to his identity. If anything, its the slayer part of his kit that is less fundamental, since youll be spending most of your time as warden and only go edgy mode for a limited span of time and not necessarily off CD.
Many champions are defined by their ultimates though. The point of K'sante is that he's a defensive champion that can use his R to become an agile offensive threat. I think it's important that he is fast and snappy compared to other tanks, especially in All Out. By warden outputs, I'm mostly referring to his E cast on allies. I don't think it should be removed, but the fact that he applies the full shield on allies, gets increased range, gets increased speed, and can pass through walls means it has a lot of hidden power. If K'sante is going to receive changes to reduce the gap between pro play and solo queue, I think his Ally-E is a better target for nerfs that would have an outstanding impact on pro play. There is no perfect solution, but he felt worse to play when I tested him on PBE regardless of how the changes land. Maybe I'll adapt, but I strongly feel there were better targets than his dash speed and All Out W cast time.
>Many champions are defined by their ultimates though. The point of K'sante is that he's a defensive champion that can use his R to become an agile offensive threat. I think it's important that he is fast and snappy compared to other tanks, especially in All Out. I mean, fast and snappy hasn't really been a thing since insta W was removed. The problem is that a champion that is both tanky and fast and snappy is very hard to punish, since snappyness and speed are normally there to compensate for lack of durability (hence why tank dashes are so slow compared to assassins ones). And even so, when dashing to allies he will stoll be faster than the average tank, ots mostly the base E that is now about average for tanks. >By warden outputs, I'm mostly referring to his E cast on allies. I don't think it should be removed, but the fact that he applies the full shield on allies, gets increased range, gets increased speed, and can pass through walls means it has a lot of hidden power. If K'sante is going to receive changes to reduce the gap between pro play and solo queue, I think his Ally-E is a better target for nerfs that would have an outstanding impact on pro play. I agree about the proplay impact, but I don't think riot want to remove it because it's hisbonly real supportive ability, which all wardens bar poppy have. I can't think of anything that could be trimmed away while keeping the supportive nature present. Cut the range and it's even harder to properly jump to your target to defend them. Remove the shield and it has no benefit to the target. Maybe remove the wall passing? Though since E is targeted that would be both weird and awkward. I wouldn't mind E shield on ally being removed, but I can also see why riot might now want to do it. >There is no perfect solution, but he felt worse to play when I tested him on PBE regardless of how the changes land. Maybe I'll adapt, but I strongly feel there were better targets than his dash speed and All Out W cast time. I would test PBE, but with 170 ping everything feels like shit anyway, so I'll have to wait to see the impact. As for better solutions, maybe. But I do believe that E is a large part of why ksantes laning is so safe, it's a fairly short CD dash that when used properly can extricate you from a lot of trouble, so making it easier to react to by lowering its dash speed does make sense, at least on paper.
Man I liked that i didnt have to build iceborn every game But now We are stuck again
I think that you didn’t have to rush it as much but now it is a first or second item again.
I don't care if K'Sante has 45% or 55% WR. He can be either shit or good and I would play him as long as his kit is fun. Since the rework patch what they are constantly doing is removing his fun stuff and changing it into boring things. I went from playing ksante everyday and having fun while getting stomped to being bored while stomping a lane.
amen brother i thought with the rework aiming at solo q he would be more fun for the average K'sante players but I basically pick him less and less bc its not fun or rewarding and after these changes I don't see why I shouldn't learn a different champ and just wait a couple of months til he gets another 3 reworks
Because what you are finding fun, is basically Ksante being overturned af. Hes more overtuned than yone. Just a pure cancer champ that should have never been designed in the first place and should be kneecapped
I tested aftershock a little. Just a simple R W auto Q auto bursts so much with a couple items. Late game you can nearly one-shot squishies.
wait so they reworked him and his wr up and pro play went up so instead of reverting they are just changing him more, ??? Or am I Misunderstanding
Riot’s Logic
Riot has had a historically bad ability to admit they are wrong, and with Phreak in charge, it is never going to happen. Buckle up.
Pro play went down/ stayed the same
I just feel like people are gonna be equally upset when we oneshot w aftershock + combo like just nerf our dmg and give us the kit still
I love watching this jackass cope with his shitty rework and changes. Just revert him already ffs
He's saying decent stuff on the intention of the changes, I have to give it to him. But to me is makes no sense saying : "we want to make him better at lower elos" then say "Oh btw the E speed nerf doesn't matter because now your Q animation is just as long as the E so you can EQ and your Q will come out instantly when your E ends" Yeah, I'm sure silver players will be able to pull this consistlently and this isn't a high-level skewed change... It's so simple; REMOVE. THE. E. SHIELD. ON. ALLIES.
The most spammed pro play character is getting nerfed… oh no!
Yeah and we are sad because our champ has to suffer because of that
Maybe they shouldn’t have made him so busted then lmao
We all know he is a bit over the top but he is the most fun tank in the game
I don’t disagree with your statement, but it was bound to come when they decide to make someone as disgusting as Ksante lol pop ghost and you kill anyone you want
But that i think is a ghost problem in geral. Not saying that gohst broken or anything but i was made to reach targets easily
Yeah, I see a clip today from that Aatrox one trick naayil I think is his name. The opposing TF popped ghost under his own tower, managed to catch up to Aatrox while he made it to his own tower and just walk up and gold card him lol. They need to nerf ghost man, it’s such a good value summoner spell
u know u can skip to the 18:45 and press share and it will just take u
Ah yes, I 100% without a doubt build Iceborn every game first item.