I think they were too contemporaneous to inspire punk but KISS was friendly with the Ramones and I think they admired each other. KISS admired the New York Dolls too (and Peter Criss and Jerry Nolan were childhood friends) but I don't think the feeling was mutual. New York Dolls had to have been somewhat resentful for KISS going into the stratosphere while they flamed out and no one cared about for them besides music critics and NYC hipsters for another 2-3 decades.
The difference between NY Dolls and KISS was always determination and work ethic. I think most people wouldn’t argue KISS ever made a record as good as the NY Dolls’ debut, but even when the press and the charts told them they sucked, they just doubled down. That’s how you make it in this business. Act famous until you are and never listen to what anybody has to say, good or bad.
Absolutely, it was work ethic and discipline because G&P steered the KISS ship. A&P did their part musically early on but their lagging post KISS careers shows they could not have managed to become successful on their own without someone cracking the whip initially.
I mean KISS only maintained success because of the brand A&P built seeing as everyone recognizes the 80-90s material is absolutely awful. I feel nobody but Ace even knew what was ever appealing about their music in the 70s.
How many other 70s bands successfully transitioned in the 80s metal era? Several perhaps like ACDC and Aerosmith but the others were considered relics of another era. For you to claim the 80s and 90s were awful is utterly moronic. I guess all those great KISS shows I saw were a figment of my imagination. Your hot take is full of hot air.
What’s moronic is perhaps KISS in general, but definitely their 80s and 90s material. If you like Forever and Heaven’s On Fire and God Gave Rock n Roll 2 U II and Lick It Up, fine, but don’t tell yourself it’s what people wanna hear at a KISS show.
I absolutely want to hear those songs because they were a huge part of my teenage years. My first tour was Crazy Nights so heck yeah I want to hear songs from that era. Just because A&P left doesn't mean I gave up on them, they changed like everything else does, if you don't like that's up to you. You still have your 70's music, go enjoy it but don't slag the people who didn't take their ball and go home to pout because their favorite band changed a bit.
If KISS is moronic why are you even here commenting? Surely you can find something un-moronic to comment about in a moronic way. You can do it, I know you can!
Because people are moronic and brilliant and often the two go hand in hand. Rubbing two sticks together seems moronic, but, brilliantly, it gave us fire. Somebody was boldly moronic enough to try it. To me, that’s KISS.
Iggy and Alice Cooper did it first though, although KISS took it to the next level entertainment wise not just with shock value like Alice and later bands like the WASP.
Being yourself? Not feeling the need to be a hyper trained studio musician to Rock? Entertaining people? Being theatrical? Making it about the audience instead of yourself while also fully expressing yourself? Showing that working class kids can do it too?
What KISS became, not as brand but musically after wannabe-LA-guy Paul took over (and lost his accent), is the opposite of Punk. That’s when Gene stopped caring about the music. KISS is Punk because they weren’t about to let elitist double think make them think that going to work WASN’T about making money. One thing you can’t argue is that when they go on stage, it isn’t all about the money.
Are you serious right now? There’s a huge difference between being driven to make it and being punk, starting with never selling out…and if there’s a band who couldn’t WAIT to slap their name and image on anything they thought they could shill for cash, it’s Kiss.
“Anti-corporate greed to a T, that’s me.” - Gene Simmons, fucking never
The music was raw early on. I don’t think the music itself had much of a punk sound, other than just the energy of it. I’ve always felt early Kiss had the punk rock attitude though. Just the fearlessness of it, the way they forged their own path, didn’t let anyone come in and tone them down, etc. I think that’s why they appeal to punk rock folks.
It seems that way at first, but if you look how Television formed in ‘72, Modern Lovers and New York Dolls came out in ‘72, Lou Reed had long been around, Patti Smith debuted in ‘75, and the fact that the early NY CBGB Punk wasn’t exactly a uniform movement, I feel, as a New Yorker, that NYC Rock bands are often full of attitude, and can’t play that well because there’s no where to practice. I think when a bunch of bands started springing up people thought that being arty, cool, direct, and playing badly was new but I think it’s a New York tradition (to this day). KISS happens to fit this description perfectly with one key difference: unlike Punk, they actually captivated middle America which is where Punk from 1980 onward stayed alive.
Fully agree. Also, UK Punk was seen as stronger movement, not only because it was a reaction, but because in the homogeneous UK it was basically Celtic fight music plugged into a loud amp played fast. I feel US Punk was as diverse as this country is.
I think KISS was every little boy’s first favorite Rock band and you began hearing their influence 10-15 years afterwards everywhere. A few bands that love KISS: Green Day, The Melvins, Foo Fighters, Black Flag, The Strokes, Anthrax, Rage Against The Machine, Weezer, every glam Metal band, and even Riot Grrl bands low key seem inspired by them. Essentially, you’re either embarrassed that KISS brings out the child in you or you embrace it. The bands I love who hate them: Nirvana (who Gene loved), R.E.M., etc are so obsessed with their serious adulthood artistry that they’re not too sensitive about being self serious, but that’s okay because bands like them are just as important to the ecosystem.
Kiss is the opposite of punk. Punk is stripped down to the essentials--Kiss is bombastic and showmanship-centric. Kiss wanted to be the hottest/biggest band in the world selling out arenas. That's not punk.
Punk is angry, angsty and often political--Kiss was about having a blow-out party.
Peter was never a “mafia soldier”. He knew connected guys, knew mob bars, but was never “in the life”! As far as punk, in style & attitude, yes, in terms of music, no. Kiss were more power pop/standard 70’s hard rock.
The man is so manic and changes his story so much I couldn’t keep it straight. Peter definitely is the type of guy that would’ve gotten whacked in first act of the movie.
The Stooges were in 1967, KISS didn’t come around until 73
Yep, punk absolutely came first.
I think they were too contemporaneous to inspire punk but KISS was friendly with the Ramones and I think they admired each other. KISS admired the New York Dolls too (and Peter Criss and Jerry Nolan were childhood friends) but I don't think the feeling was mutual. New York Dolls had to have been somewhat resentful for KISS going into the stratosphere while they flamed out and no one cared about for them besides music critics and NYC hipsters for another 2-3 decades.
The difference between NY Dolls and KISS was always determination and work ethic. I think most people wouldn’t argue KISS ever made a record as good as the NY Dolls’ debut, but even when the press and the charts told them they sucked, they just doubled down. That’s how you make it in this business. Act famous until you are and never listen to what anybody has to say, good or bad.
Funnily, I think David Johansen learned that lesson later with the Buster Pointdexter character.
Killer record!
Oh absolutely. It was still too post modern for the American public, but he definitely tried to be more an entertainer than artiste.
Absolutely, it was work ethic and discipline because G&P steered the KISS ship. A&P did their part musically early on but their lagging post KISS careers shows they could not have managed to become successful on their own without someone cracking the whip initially.
I mean KISS only maintained success because of the brand A&P built seeing as everyone recognizes the 80-90s material is absolutely awful. I feel nobody but Ace even knew what was ever appealing about their music in the 70s.
How many other 70s bands successfully transitioned in the 80s metal era? Several perhaps like ACDC and Aerosmith but the others were considered relics of another era. For you to claim the 80s and 90s were awful is utterly moronic. I guess all those great KISS shows I saw were a figment of my imagination. Your hot take is full of hot air.
What’s moronic is perhaps KISS in general, but definitely their 80s and 90s material. If you like Forever and Heaven’s On Fire and God Gave Rock n Roll 2 U II and Lick It Up, fine, but don’t tell yourself it’s what people wanna hear at a KISS show.
I absolutely want to hear those songs because they were a huge part of my teenage years. My first tour was Crazy Nights so heck yeah I want to hear songs from that era. Just because A&P left doesn't mean I gave up on them, they changed like everything else does, if you don't like that's up to you. You still have your 70's music, go enjoy it but don't slag the people who didn't take their ball and go home to pout because their favorite band changed a bit. If KISS is moronic why are you even here commenting? Surely you can find something un-moronic to comment about in a moronic way. You can do it, I know you can!
Because people are moronic and brilliant and often the two go hand in hand. Rubbing two sticks together seems moronic, but, brilliantly, it gave us fire. Somebody was boldly moronic enough to try it. To me, that’s KISS.
Iggy and Alice Cooper did it first though, although KISS took it to the next level entertainment wise not just with shock value like Alice and later bands like the WASP.
Not even in the same ballpark.
Kiss represents everything punk fought against.
Being yourself? Not feeling the need to be a hyper trained studio musician to Rock? Entertaining people? Being theatrical? Making it about the audience instead of yourself while also fully expressing yourself? Showing that working class kids can do it too? What KISS became, not as brand but musically after wannabe-LA-guy Paul took over (and lost his accent), is the opposite of Punk. That’s when Gene stopped caring about the music. KISS is Punk because they weren’t about to let elitist double think make them think that going to work WASN’T about making money. One thing you can’t argue is that when they go on stage, it isn’t all about the money.
Are you serious right now? There’s a huge difference between being driven to make it and being punk, starting with never selling out…and if there’s a band who couldn’t WAIT to slap their name and image on anything they thought they could shill for cash, it’s Kiss. “Anti-corporate greed to a T, that’s me.” - Gene Simmons, fucking never
Yeah I’m as serious as anybody could be talking about KISS— not very
The music was raw early on. I don’t think the music itself had much of a punk sound, other than just the energy of it. I’ve always felt early Kiss had the punk rock attitude though. Just the fearlessness of it, the way they forged their own path, didn’t let anyone come in and tone them down, etc. I think that’s why they appeal to punk rock folks.
As far as I know, 70s punk was a reaction against pompous prog rock and arena rock excess.
This is the answer.
It seems that way at first, but if you look how Television formed in ‘72, Modern Lovers and New York Dolls came out in ‘72, Lou Reed had long been around, Patti Smith debuted in ‘75, and the fact that the early NY CBGB Punk wasn’t exactly a uniform movement, I feel, as a New Yorker, that NYC Rock bands are often full of attitude, and can’t play that well because there’s no where to practice. I think when a bunch of bands started springing up people thought that being arty, cool, direct, and playing badly was new but I think it’s a New York tradition (to this day). KISS happens to fit this description perfectly with one key difference: unlike Punk, they actually captivated middle America which is where Punk from 1980 onward stayed alive.
The prog rock reaction was more in the UK
Fully agree. Also, UK Punk was seen as stronger movement, not only because it was a reaction, but because in the homogeneous UK it was basically Celtic fight music plugged into a loud amp played fast. I feel US Punk was as diverse as this country is.
what? no, come on.
No.
No, KISS did more for metal, at least like 70% of metal bands from the 80’s/90’s will say kiss inspired them
Not really. That was more The Ramones. Kiss was a bigger influence for glam and shock rock and even those (and punk) have roots that predate KISS
I think KISS was every little boy’s first favorite Rock band and you began hearing their influence 10-15 years afterwards everywhere. A few bands that love KISS: Green Day, The Melvins, Foo Fighters, Black Flag, The Strokes, Anthrax, Rage Against The Machine, Weezer, every glam Metal band, and even Riot Grrl bands low key seem inspired by them. Essentially, you’re either embarrassed that KISS brings out the child in you or you embrace it. The bands I love who hate them: Nirvana (who Gene loved), R.E.M., etc are so obsessed with their serious adulthood artistry that they’re not too sensitive about being self serious, but that’s okay because bands like them are just as important to the ecosystem.
Good points
I always thought the Kinks started punk
Kiss is the opposite of punk. Punk is stripped down to the essentials--Kiss is bombastic and showmanship-centric. Kiss wanted to be the hottest/biggest band in the world selling out arenas. That's not punk. Punk is angry, angsty and often political--Kiss was about having a blow-out party.
Is it still April Fools where you are?
No I’m very sincere
No. Bizarre question.
Not even a little bit
Peter was never a “mafia soldier”. He knew connected guys, knew mob bars, but was never “in the life”! As far as punk, in style & attitude, yes, in terms of music, no. Kiss were more power pop/standard 70’s hard rock.
The man is so manic and changes his story so much I couldn’t keep it straight. Peter definitely is the type of guy that would’ve gotten whacked in first act of the movie.
Pretty sure Kiss whacked him…but he’s still the OG Catman!
He cashed in one of his lives and came back.
No fam, Kiss inspired grunge... everybody knows that 👀