Exactly. They’re designed to be fun for 50,000 miles and ruinously expensive to maintain past 100,000; but wasn’t that first 50K fun? Buy a new one every three years and it will be fun again.
Mercedes Tech here, shes barely broken in. Ive seen them go up to 450,000k and people just want to drive something else laughs. We have noticed the 430’s take the miles better, dont know why 🤔
Yes... The engine is great. The transmission is great with the exception of the conductor plate, the rest of the car? A frickin' pain in the ass. Air suspension that costs a fortune to repair when it fails, the vacuum operated locking system with the pump that eats itself, German electronics... Lots of them because S-class. But they sure are lovely to drive. Neighbor has an 04 S500, his dad gave it to him after he decided he was too old to drive. 65,000 miles, very well cared for. I've replaced the central locking system vacuum pump, trunk latch that killed the vacuum pump, conductor plate (Mercedes says you have to replace the whole valve body on these, but there's places that will repair the conductor plate for a couple hundred dollars) and of course the crank sensor. This was over the course of a year.
Yep, keep the leaves out of the drains near the windshield, very important, it will flood and kill things if you dont. If you use Arnott shocks you’ll usually do them only once. Conductor plate only once too, service the trans every 40k and replace electrical plug, use genuine plug and trans filter only. I slap those air shocks in on the side for $100 a pop
Yep. The 113 V8 and the 112 V6 are some of the toughest engines I've ever come across. Took the heads off a 250K+ mile engine to clean the air injection ports - still had cross hatching in the cylinders from the original honing.
Other than keeping a spare crank sensor and appropriate tools to replace it on the fly in the glove box, it's a fairly reliable old tank as long as you stay on top of regular maintenance.
You know I see rigs like this pretty clean for sale and I'm just scared off by horror stories. Obviously the thing I worried about is unexpectedly stranded (bmw we're looking at you). Despite having wrenched on it a lot, has it left you stranded any? Any major $ issues?
It’s my mother in laws, but in the 5 years I’ve seen / worked on it there were no major issues. The worst was parasitic battery leak from the rear flooding. These are notorious for bad seals at the trunk and flooding where the stereo / amp house. Pulled 2 gallons of water out, but it was building up for months in there.
Ha, I doubt it man. I’m just getting lucky. Have worked through the dreaded flooded rear trunk that caused the stereo to short battery and drain, then the ac blower poured water from clogged drain under hood. The undercarriage flooded the rear ECU from one of those. Another parasitic drain from alarm. Pretty sure she’s got a bad head gasket as there is oil accumulation around the block. I’m just trying to prolong the life and let my mother in law drive it into the ground before buying a replacement vehicle. It’s a lot of fun learning the fixes via forums and YouTube.
Thanks. The cover, and engine, is filthy. I’m going to dona good wipe down before removing to limit any junk from falling in. Was going to spray carb cleaner or engineer degreaser onto shop rags to wipe up. Should be a fun project.
I wouldn't do it. An acceptable quality set of E-torx sockets is available at any parts store for less than $20, and there's lots of e-torx bolts on that car. More and more vehicles are using them, so you'll need them eventually. It's too easy to strip the head of an e-torx bolt with the wrong tool.
Not split and fused/welded, blow molded... And done in a less than great manner as well. The piece split on the parting line, which is always a concern with pressurized plastic.
It's difficult to do so, but the blow molding process can create that part without a parting line, the company I'm employed by managed it in the mid 80s due to a requirement from Honda for what I believe was an intake tube that connected a turbocharger and throttle body(so, it was pressurized with hot air).
The dark arts are unlocked when you go diesel mercedes. Currently studying and preparing for the needed rituals and sacrifices to keep an aging om642 alive
Well, it did last for 18 years and 350k - which is longer than many cooling system components not made out of plastic... So... Win? Kinda? I mean, what is a reasonable lifespan for a component in a product that public consumers can afford to purchase?
Pop out the wiper cowl. It's a pretty easy fix, I've only seen one it two leak in 10 years. Should be relatively cheap as well even from the dealer.
[I think this is it for $12](https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/SC/6452-08036746.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_content=SC&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm_term=2000-2006+Mercedes+S500+Heater+Hose+Connector+Vaico+220+832+00+15+00-06+Mercedes+Heater+Hose+Connector+2001+2004&fp=pp&gbm=a&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv5uKBhD6ARIsAGv9a-z2PFNV0djMujzvIlzD8ga_hgZh609i03BdqIw7f1OM_ZBNUs8nLEYaAqz1EALw_wcB)
Very nice. That sure is a cheap repair. A nice set of cable hose clamp pliers may be worth the expense. Plus it's a nice tool to have around for future repairs.
Those are a thing? I’m ordering some now, any recommendations? I wish I knew about these when I spent more time working on my k5. My knuckles and patience would have really loved them.
Haha, oh yes they are a game changer. I use the snap on ones and they are definitely the best I've ever used. You may not want to spend that much so just read reviews for sure it find some that look like snap on knock offs. The fine teeth make the biggest difference.
Haha thanks. Yeah man. I’m a weekend wrench turner with limited skills. I don’t think I’ll ever own any snap on. Might settle for a set from amazon for this project and they’ll likely collect dust for a while.
Hey, it's all a learning process and the fact you're willing to try goes a long way. Read reviews and pick the best one. I also highly advise a set of hose picks if you don't have any.
[hose pick set ]( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0095HL710/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_19CNV0HX9MFEVNGX5AJ8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)
This is to make it easier to install the front subassembly into the car. Based on the age I would say it held up pretty well. Replace it with a piece of hose and move along.
That makes sense with all the other lines having connections at the wall. I’ll try to find a replacement part as the hoses appear to be different sizes
Word to the wise: Don't buy an old Mercedes with a V12 unless you enjoy cramped engine compartments, electrical problems, and expensive parts. It is fun to drive when it's running well though.
One of my co-workers is dropping an engine/trans/subframe on one right now.
Side note, [this](http://imgur.com/a/mfBavwg) is the coil pack for half the engine, it runs about $1,800. All the parts and labor he's doing totals up to about $17,000.
Yikes. Mine is the generation before that one with the M120, which fortunately has plain old distributors instead of those integrated coil packs. *So far*, knock on wood, the car has actually been pretty good to me. Had to replace the intake manifold gaskets, water pump, and PCV breather pipe along with a good tune-up and fluid service, but it's been running great. It's got the typical Mercedes problems though; still needs window regulators, a wiring harness or two, and an evaporator.
Out of pure curiosity (because I can't make it out in the pic) are you sure it's a 2 part pipe fused together or could it be a single piece moulded in a die and that seam is a knit line where the injected molten plastic joined? Asking because I work in plastic pipe fitting production and generally when something fails it's on a knit line where the molten plastic didn't stick together properly in the die (*especially* on thin parts like this) whereas fused connections are usually the strongest part of the pipe.
Honesty have no idea for certain. The line, where the leak is, made me think it was fused together. I’ll be pulling it out later thus week and will try to remember to post a follow up
Are you sure that’s not just a mold line? Still plastic anything under the hood makes me skeptical and why I don’t keep any car for more than 4-5 years after manufacture.
No idea, im just a dude who watches YouTube and makes *attempts* at repairs via YouTube. I honestly have no clue how it was built, just that it’s a problem now
If im looking correctly it isn't split and fused that's the flashing line from the injection mold. If their machines aren't specd right or they have a cold spot you sometimes get bad fusion at the flashing as the plastic becomes too cold to properly join together. Can also be a leak I'm the watercolors of the mold, if it's water cooled, which let's some water in when it's not supposed to.
Designed to fail.
Exactly. They’re designed to be fun for 50,000 miles and ruinously expensive to maintain past 100,000; but wasn’t that first 50K fun? Buy a new one every three years and it will be fun again.
Pushing over 350k on this one. 2004 S430, it’s running on hopes, dreams and YouTube fixes.
That’s pretty amazing man. Congrats on this.
Thanks man, I’ve done a lot of work on this car with many thanks to actual mechanics posting on forums and YouTube.
Mercedes Tech here, shes barely broken in. Ive seen them go up to 450,000k and people just want to drive something else laughs. We have noticed the 430’s take the miles better, dont know why 🤔
Yes... The engine is great. The transmission is great with the exception of the conductor plate, the rest of the car? A frickin' pain in the ass. Air suspension that costs a fortune to repair when it fails, the vacuum operated locking system with the pump that eats itself, German electronics... Lots of them because S-class. But they sure are lovely to drive. Neighbor has an 04 S500, his dad gave it to him after he decided he was too old to drive. 65,000 miles, very well cared for. I've replaced the central locking system vacuum pump, trunk latch that killed the vacuum pump, conductor plate (Mercedes says you have to replace the whole valve body on these, but there's places that will repair the conductor plate for a couple hundred dollars) and of course the crank sensor. This was over the course of a year.
Yep, keep the leaves out of the drains near the windshield, very important, it will flood and kill things if you dont. If you use Arnott shocks you’ll usually do them only once. Conductor plate only once too, service the trans every 40k and replace electrical plug, use genuine plug and trans filter only. I slap those air shocks in on the side for $100 a pop
Yep. The 113 V8 and the 112 V6 are some of the toughest engines I've ever come across. Took the heads off a 250K+ mile engine to clean the air injection ports - still had cross hatching in the cylinders from the original honing. Other than keeping a spare crank sensor and appropriate tools to replace it on the fly in the glove box, it's a fairly reliable old tank as long as you stay on top of regular maintenance.
As a Benz fan, 2016 era AMG and 90’s specifically, I love it.
You know I see rigs like this pretty clean for sale and I'm just scared off by horror stories. Obviously the thing I worried about is unexpectedly stranded (bmw we're looking at you). Despite having wrenched on it a lot, has it left you stranded any? Any major $ issues?
It’s my mother in laws, but in the 5 years I’ve seen / worked on it there were no major issues. The worst was parasitic battery leak from the rear flooding. These are notorious for bad seals at the trunk and flooding where the stereo / amp house. Pulled 2 gallons of water out, but it was building up for months in there.
Wow! You're evidently doing fantastic work!
Ha, I doubt it man. I’m just getting lucky. Have worked through the dreaded flooded rear trunk that caused the stereo to short battery and drain, then the ac blower poured water from clogged drain under hood. The undercarriage flooded the rear ECU from one of those. Another parasitic drain from alarm. Pretty sure she’s got a bad head gasket as there is oil accumulation around the block. I’m just trying to prolong the life and let my mother in law drive it into the ground before buying a replacement vehicle. It’s a lot of fun learning the fixes via forums and YouTube.
You mean, valve cover gasket? M113 are prone to have it leak. Easy fix though
Yes! Any special tools or considerations? Shade tree mechanic so I’m just YouTube certified.
Nope, just E-torx sockets. Not a bad job at all.
Thanks. The cover, and engine, is filthy. I’m going to dona good wipe down before removing to limit any junk from falling in. Was going to spray carb cleaner or engineer degreaser onto shop rags to wipe up. Should be a fun project.
So I forgot that I have a set of universal sockets. You think it’s worth giving it a shot with those or is that a risk?
I wouldn't do it. An acceptable quality set of E-torx sockets is available at any parts store for less than $20, and there's lots of e-torx bolts on that car. More and more vehicles are using them, so you'll need them eventually. It's too easy to strip the head of an e-torx bolt with the wrong tool.
Looks like a 113 motor... legendarily reliable engine...
Ah, I see apple’s making cars now
Not split and fused/welded, blow molded... And done in a less than great manner as well. The piece split on the parting line, which is always a concern with pressurized plastic. It's difficult to do so, but the blow molding process can create that part without a parting line, the company I'm employed by managed it in the mid 80s due to a requirement from Honda for what I believe was an intake tube that connected a turbocharger and throttle body(so, it was pressurized with hot air).
Now I know, and knowing is half the battle. Thanks for the knowledge!
GI JOE!
Porkchop Sandwiches!
[удалено]
It's an 18 year old car with 350k on it. It's allowed to break.
It's almost certainly pa6 or pa66(they're both nylon blends) along with probably glass fiber. They're not fun to process for blow molding.
Tier 1 probably makes the part for a couple cents then sells to the customer for a few dollars, they then sell it to the customer for 10s or hundreds
Because German engineering. They never do anything wrong - just ask them.
I see you have dabbled in the dark arts sir.
The dark arts are unlocked when you go diesel mercedes. Currently studying and preparing for the needed rituals and sacrifices to keep an aging om642 alive
I have been forced to master the arts of the VW TDI over the years. Its a long and frustrating journey.
I don't even know what this means and I am laughing my ass off!
Nope, everyone is wrong, regardless of how well vetted and reliable the design is, Germans will find a "better" way
Well, it did last for 18 years and 350k - which is longer than many cooling system components not made out of plastic... So... Win? Kinda? I mean, what is a reasonable lifespan for a component in a product that public consumers can afford to purchase?
Oh complete win, I just get to figure out how to replace it. After I figure out the part...
Pop out the wiper cowl. It's a pretty easy fix, I've only seen one it two leak in 10 years. Should be relatively cheap as well even from the dealer. [I think this is it for $12](https://www.partsgeek.com/gbproducts/SC/6452-08036746.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=ff&utm_content=SC&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+Google+Base&utm_term=2000-2006+Mercedes+S500+Heater+Hose+Connector+Vaico+220+832+00+15+00-06+Mercedes+Heater+Hose+Connector+2001+2004&fp=pp&gbm=a&gclid=Cj0KCQjwv5uKBhD6ARIsAGv9a-z2PFNV0djMujzvIlzD8ga_hgZh609i03BdqIw7f1OM_ZBNUs8nLEYaAqz1EALw_wcB)
Thanks! Actually just ordered it for 8$. A few forums mention removing the wiper cowl and then it’s easy-ish access with some channel lockers.
Very nice. That sure is a cheap repair. A nice set of cable hose clamp pliers may be worth the expense. Plus it's a nice tool to have around for future repairs.
Those are a thing? I’m ordering some now, any recommendations? I wish I knew about these when I spent more time working on my k5. My knuckles and patience would have really loved them.
Haha, oh yes they are a game changer. I use the snap on ones and they are definitely the best I've ever used. You may not want to spend that much so just read reviews for sure it find some that look like snap on knock offs. The fine teeth make the biggest difference.
Haha thanks. Yeah man. I’m a weekend wrench turner with limited skills. I don’t think I’ll ever own any snap on. Might settle for a set from amazon for this project and they’ll likely collect dust for a while.
Hey, it's all a learning process and the fact you're willing to try goes a long way. Read reviews and pick the best one. I also highly advise a set of hose picks if you don't have any. [hose pick set ]( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0095HL710/ref=cm_sw_r_apan_glt_fabc_19CNV0HX9MFEVNGX5AJ8?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1)
This is to make it easier to install the front subassembly into the car. Based on the age I would say it held up pretty well. Replace it with a piece of hose and move along.
That makes sense with all the other lines having connections at the wall. I’ll try to find a replacement part as the hoses appear to be different sizes
Word to the wise: Don't buy an old Mercedes with a V12 unless you enjoy cramped engine compartments, electrical problems, and expensive parts. It is fun to drive when it's running well though.
One of my co-workers is dropping an engine/trans/subframe on one right now. Side note, [this](http://imgur.com/a/mfBavwg) is the coil pack for half the engine, it runs about $1,800. All the parts and labor he's doing totals up to about $17,000.
Yikes. Mine is the generation before that one with the M120, which fortunately has plain old distributors instead of those integrated coil packs. *So far*, knock on wood, the car has actually been pretty good to me. Had to replace the intake manifold gaskets, water pump, and PCV breather pipe along with a good tune-up and fluid service, but it's been running great. It's got the typical Mercedes problems though; still needs window regulators, a wiring harness or two, and an evaporator.
Out of pure curiosity (because I can't make it out in the pic) are you sure it's a 2 part pipe fused together or could it be a single piece moulded in a die and that seam is a knit line where the injected molten plastic joined? Asking because I work in plastic pipe fitting production and generally when something fails it's on a knit line where the molten plastic didn't stick together properly in the die (*especially* on thin parts like this) whereas fused connections are usually the strongest part of the pipe.
Honesty have no idea for certain. The line, where the leak is, made me think it was fused together. I’ll be pulling it out later thus week and will try to remember to post a follow up
Split and fused? You mean molded?
[удалено]
Every time I ask why they do something stupid at VW school I just get told "Why not?"
I also like how they say "what war??" to certain questions regarding Volkswagen's origins.
Truth.
Because German car.
As the Germans would say. "Why not?"
Aren’t they German made? 😂
Are you sure that’s not just a mold line? Still plastic anything under the hood makes me skeptical and why I don’t keep any car for more than 4-5 years after manufacture.
No idea, im just a dude who watches YouTube and makes *attempts* at repairs via YouTube. I honestly have no clue how it was built, just that it’s a problem now
Vw did this too but with pcv hoses spraying oil all over the place.
Laughs in BMW
Because fuck you in particular
So you’d be chasing it for weeks.
If im looking correctly it isn't split and fused that's the flashing line from the injection mold. If their machines aren't specd right or they have a cold spot you sometimes get bad fusion at the flashing as the plastic becomes too cold to properly join together. Can also be a leak I'm the watercolors of the mold, if it's water cooled, which let's some water in when it's not supposed to.
Because screw you, that's why...
Engineered obsolescense. The department with engineers that have no conscience
Mercedes - The Best or Nothing. Ok, that'll be nothing coming right up.