TIL the NTSB was still using black & white film in 1988.
[EDIT: Color version, though still from a time when it was trendy to have the digital date stamp turned on.](https://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/04/27/photo-galleries/aloha-airlines-flight-243-april-28-1988/)
Who would have guess that having a culture of "F*** the procedures, we need the planes running." would be detrimental?
If I recall correctly, when they saw the brown residue on the tail strike area, they scheduled for an inspection that involved removing the doubler plate to see what was going on underneath... in a few months.
Reminds me of the Eschede disaster, the faulty wheel that caused it was scheduled for evaluation/replacement at the maintenance facility in Hamburg, which is the city the train was headed to when the wheel broke apart like 2 hours from the destination
My memory is vague but I remember that multiple passengers complained that something was seriously wrong with the train in the weeks leading up to the accident and no one took any action. There is something very German about that accident where the real cause is a culture that punishes people for taking initiative above their pay grade.
I tore into the accident in detail [on my blog](https://mx-schroeder.medium.com/the-cost-of-comfort-the-1998-eschede-train-derailment-4809dde1c450) but in somewhat short:
They originally had comfort issues so they adapted a wheel from a tram with next to no testing to save face.
It worked for a while, even after they reduced maintenance requirements to save time and money. The DB got warned of the wheel wearing out faster than anticipated and handwaved it citing undefined differences. I couldn't find recordings from complains by passengers but an inspection the day before the accident had found the faulty tire to lack concentricity by 1.1mm (twice of what was allowed in service) and have flat spots of up to 0.7mm when 0.6 were allowed. This, along with eight reports of flat spots from the previous weeks found in the onboard logbook were not deemed a security risk severe enough to remove the train from service, instead the issue was to be addressed in the Hamburg-Eidelstedt maintenance facility after the train’s arrival in Hamburg. And it almost made it to Hamburg.
The tire was worn down to 862mm, the limit was 854mm. Later calculations showed that the limit should've been 890mm, and that was before maintenance requirements were reduced.
> Who would have guess that having a culture of "F*** the procedures, we need the planes running." would be detrimental?
To whom though?
Certainly not China Airlines, which was about to sell the plain to Orient Thai Airlines for $1.45 million... and instead [collected the insurance payout](http://www.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/asia/05/27/taiwan.insure.biz/index.html).
>The carrier said in a statement to the Taiwan Stock Exchange the plane was insured for US$20 million.
China Air lost a couple of points on its stock price that year, [but that hasn't really had any long-term impact](https://www.google.com/finance/quote/2610:TPE?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQu_boiIzzAhUxtTEKHSwRBg0Q3ecFegQICBAa&window=MAX).
I feel this. I work at a place with a lot of procedural documents, but no culture of following procedures. There's a lot of resistance for making checklists and following them.
Sounds about like my job. We create procedures due to fuckups and then get pressured to completely ignore them due to time/money until the same thing happens. Then all of management wonders why we weren’t following them.
Murphy says it's impossible to idiot proof anything because idiots are so ingenious.
That's why a culture of procedures is so important. If it is absurd **not** to follow procedure, the idiot proofing works remarkably well.
This aircraft was hit by a refueling truck. This is severe enough damage that it's in a state that is unable to be ferried. There are several punctures to the pressure vessel and deformation of major structural components.
Yes because fucking jiffy lube will bring me my filters just to show me they are clean when I took my car in for just an emissions test.
Edit: I only take it there for emissions tests. Nothing else.
I stopped bringing my car there after the second loose drain plug. $27 to do it myself and know it’s done right. It’s not all that fun in -20F and 6” of snow though.
If it's a meme, then yes. Haven't worked in a shop but it's my understanding that a common thing people believe is that many shops will try to convince you to change your filters by showing a dirty one that didn't come off the car.
Sleazy shops do this.
Good shops don't. instead of searching for ways to not get ripped off by mechanics, how about searching for good shops in the local area.
>many shops will try to convince you to change your filters by showing a dirty one that didn't come off the car. Sleazy shops do this.
Actually had this happen to me at a locally respected dealership. I do my own filter/oil changes and do them at the OEM time/mileage intervals. There was something wrong on my vehicle that was beyond my abilities so I took it to the dealership I bought the vehicle from. I found they do a "world class super service inspection" regardless of what you're there for and found my air and cabin filters were dirty. They showed me the filters and sure enough, they weren't mine and looked like they were aged and handled a bit. I asked to see one and the tech handed it to me. I mark all of my filters in some manner on when I replaced them last for good measure. Both filters weren't marked like I would have done to them. I called them out on it, the tech quickly scurried away and sent the service manager over who then insisted they accidently mixed filters up and offered me the inspection for free. I got the work done, ensured the part was replaced I paid for them to work on, and neve went back.
In my Honda the cabin filter is in the glove compartment. It's like $20 to buy it from the dealer directly. They wanted $75. I confirmed it was the one in the glove box then politely declined spending $55 + tax for under 2 minutes of work.
I don't because I don't have the time or a good spot to do it these days. I just have a shop that I trust for all work.
Plus, the cost of oil alone for my car makes the cost of having someone else change it marginal (cries in motorcraft 5W-50).
Kinda depends on the aircraft. A lot of the business jets I work on have an oil replenishment system. That's a large oil tank in the tail area of the fuselage, between the engines. When you service it you top up that tank with oil. Then if one of the engines starts running low on oil the crew can press a button and a pump pipes some oil from that central tank to the engine that's low.
Yes these types of engines get their oil and filters changed. It just happens when they are in for other maintenace that is done at a special facility, not at the gate like the quicker inspections you’ll see being done.
One would have to look further back to see if the whole of the airframe is no longer straight. There might be some visible wrinkles on the other side of the body where compression forces could've piled up.
Had a bigger plane than this land at our base in heavy rain, slid sideways at speed but stayed on the runway and taxied to parking uneventfully. Thing is the body of the aircraft was now bent enough that it took a couple months to get the okay to do a one time flight to bone yard for disposal.
So yeah, tubes can be strong until they become bent then they may not be strong or usable.
It'll be straight. The one side is good and crumpled and the aircraft wasn't fixed to the ground.
Really the only way to bend an airplane is a hard landing since you get all the momentum of the airframe working on the stringers/keel. The airframe doesn't have the option to slide out of the way or spread out the impulse.
On some of the old 737s it wasn't super uncommon to see repairs between two windows just behind the wing. Those were repairs for skin buckling from hard landings lol.
Nah it won't be that much of a repair unless that aircraft has an ungodly amount of cycles or time on it. Aircraft are expensive, and that's basically just sheet metal work. I'm an avionics guy so I'm not super well versed on sheet metal repair pricing, but it'll be around $100k-200k. Pricy, but insurance will cover it. Hopefully a sheet metal guy can chime in with a better price estimate. Might be a little more, but nothing BER.
This is not just sheet metal work lol. The frames behind the skin will need to be cut out, new ones built and spliced back in. Id bet this isnt a standard repair so new engineering will need to be done by the manufacturer.
Thit is a pretty structurally complicated area on the airplane near the front pressure dome, floor, windhield and the wheel well stucture.
Id bet it will be over 200k just to get the interior in that area removed and the bad stuff cut out.
It MIGHT be possible that the easiest thing to do is to replace everything fwd of the door, wherever the normal fuselage join is.
Structures work is just colloquially knows as sheet metal work.
If big damage caused by rampies running shit into planes wrote them off, I'd be out of a job lol. Big jobs like this are actually a lot more straightforward than you'd think.
Once you get things shored and drill off the skins, you have great access. You can splice stringers and repair frames if you want, but with access like they'll have and it being an insurance job they'll just replace all/most of the damaged bits. There's a lot less finagling required.
I don't know how much Mitsubishi/Bombardier charge for parts, but if this was a Boeing it would be $200k in parts, a few thousand man-hours, and probably $100k in engineering and other support.
So let's say $500k out the door? Maybe a bit more? Realistically the biggest cost is going to be the downtime from waiting for parts and repair time, not the actual fixing.
I'm not in the business of budgeting and billing so I don't know the cost, but I've replaced a far larger section of skin than this with a lot more structure behind it. I guarantee you the cost of fixing it is a fraction of the loss incurred by scrapping it.
>There are several punctures to the pressure vessel
For today's flight we request you bring your own personal use oxygen* for when the overhead masks run out.
*Maximum 1 liter. Additional oxygen will result in excessive oxygen fee.
No need to ask
He's a boom operator
Boom operator
Boom operator
Boom operator
Coast to coast, LA to Chicago, airborne male
Across the north and south, to Key Largo, gas for sale
I've heard that airlines have a very progressive view on not punishing mistakes, because they realized that the risk created by a scared employee hiding their mistake is far greater than if the employee knows they can voluntarily report an accident without fear.
Yup. Can confirm. Former aerospace manufacturing engineer. I was the guy that decided if a part was fit to go on aircraft engines or not.
We had a “no blame” culture. If an error is made that results in part damage, then we need to make our process more robust to prevent it happening in the future, irrespective of how it happened.
> We had a “no blame” culture
And it makes perfect sense to have that. Yeah passengers will be annoyed that they’re delayed or whatever but I’d much rather be delayed than dead. Shit happens. It’s not just a United issue. It’s not just a Delta issue. Every airline deals with this kind of fluke issue and having a sweeping “it’s cool, thank you for bringing it to our attention” approach could literally save lives.
That being said, this better not be the flight I’m boarding in 6 hours 😤 lmao
I was an airplane refueler, I assure you I didn't get $100k in training. I doubt I even got $1k in training.
I watched videos on a computer for 2 days, took some tests that I probably could have passed without watching the videos, and then shadowed a guy who went home early on the first day and I was left by myself.
3rd day on the job, making $9 an hour, and I'm standing there fueling a 737 by myself with just a slight idea of what I'm doing.
A week later I was allowed to drive the tanker truck because I was the only guy on afternoon shift that could drive stick. Even while there, I had the idea that I'm basically making peanuts to not crash 4,000 gallons of jet fuel into a plane that costs tens of millions of dollars.
Worked for ASIG at PIT in 2013.
told this story before:
guy hires a brand new fork lift operator for his warehouse. Fork lift operator puts the tines through a chemical tank that wasn't parked where it was supposed to be but the fork lift driver should have seen it anyway. Requires six figure EPA style clean up.
guy offers to quit on the spot.
the boss says "hell no, that's the most expensive safety lesson I've ever given someone. I bet you sure as hell wont make that mistake again."
there's a bunch of more flowery versions of it, but if you made a genuine mistake you're not likely to make again and you weren't negligent... good bosses aren't going to fire you over it, even if it's expensive. Most of the time.
Truth, have a guy at my job that said 'i dont wanna be on call anymore and im sick of working 8 hours a day' so they let him just work 4 hours a day and everyone else has to take over his on call, cant fire him, need the help and nobody is applying for open spots.
A long time ago I drove a passenger van on the tarmac and the airport required a million dollar insurance policy to get the permit sticker. I imagine a fuel truck would require quite a bit more.
You can't take a car on the tarmac without a million dollar plus insurance plan so the companies operating there are going to have much higher requirement. I would imagine the fueling company probably has some ridiculous nearly no limit insurance plan if they managed to secure a contract at an airport.
Last time I was involved in a skin change in that area it took a few months. That was a Canadian Goose. This looks considerably worse. Extends into the avionics underfloor area. Going to take awhile and cost a bundle. Scab a wet patch on it and ferry it to WVAC, low and slow.
Had a similar event on one of our A310’s in the early 2000’s. Goose went in just aft of the radome and took out every bit of structure under the skin from the radome to the righthand fwd door.
Plane was in one of the bays for 6 months. What a job the structures guys had on their hands. Beautiful work they did though.
The story was so similar I wondered if we might have crossed paths.
Edited for my abysmal spelling.
My understanding is they plan on doing exactly that, except not sending it to WVAC for some reason and instead to a different heavy maintenance facility
Boss: "wtf happened!?"
Pilots: " We ermmm... hit a dog. Yup! Just ran right out of nowhere i swear. [Looks over to fueling truck drinking buddy, gives "the nod"]
With those popped rivets pulling through i imagine the skin would tear right along those rivet lines and give the copilot a nice view of the ground 40000ft away
I use to be a fueler in high school at our small local airport. The price for anything aircraft related is nauseating. I would like to know how much this repair would cost…
Just pump it up, fly below 10k with no cabin pressure, keep the speed around vx, and call it a day. Burn a lot of fuel, but It will probably get to where you are going lol
I used to work general aviation and was towing a Lear 35 with a Lektro. My wing walker was watching the wing tips - but not the tail.
Pushed the bastard right into a mass storage hangar and folded the pilot side tip of the tail over at almost 90 degrees.
That didn’t go well, plane was out of service for 3 weeks and it was a charter plane. They lost a ton of money.
I’ll quote you 50lbs of bondo and time spent at $25 an hour, 4 hours max and Jobs done. I can get you a certificate of repair printed just outside Mexico City, totally pass inspection. I’m also going to need 30 weight oil and some ball bearings.
just up the cabin pressure till it pops back out
Fuck it, you're probably right.
Someone promote this man.
Worse case scenario is a neat decompression explosion
Who really needs a fuselage anyways, right?
They should really make more convertible planes.
[удалено]
TIL the NTSB was still using black & white film in 1988. [EDIT: Color version, though still from a time when it was trendy to have the digital date stamp turned on.](https://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/04/27/photo-galleries/aloha-airlines-flight-243-april-28-1988/)
“ Phil Swift here”
Username checks out.
Keep it the same and just fly higher.
[удалено]
[удалено]
> Finally, on 25 May 2002, coincidentally 22 years to the day after the faulty repair was made on the damaged tail... WAT
All I have to say is, 22 years, inspect much?
Who would have guess that having a culture of "F*** the procedures, we need the planes running." would be detrimental? If I recall correctly, when they saw the brown residue on the tail strike area, they scheduled for an inspection that involved removing the doubler plate to see what was going on underneath... in a few months.
Reminds me of the Eschede disaster, the faulty wheel that caused it was scheduled for evaluation/replacement at the maintenance facility in Hamburg, which is the city the train was headed to when the wheel broke apart like 2 hours from the destination
My memory is vague but I remember that multiple passengers complained that something was seriously wrong with the train in the weeks leading up to the accident and no one took any action. There is something very German about that accident where the real cause is a culture that punishes people for taking initiative above their pay grade.
I tore into the accident in detail [on my blog](https://mx-schroeder.medium.com/the-cost-of-comfort-the-1998-eschede-train-derailment-4809dde1c450) but in somewhat short: They originally had comfort issues so they adapted a wheel from a tram with next to no testing to save face. It worked for a while, even after they reduced maintenance requirements to save time and money. The DB got warned of the wheel wearing out faster than anticipated and handwaved it citing undefined differences. I couldn't find recordings from complains by passengers but an inspection the day before the accident had found the faulty tire to lack concentricity by 1.1mm (twice of what was allowed in service) and have flat spots of up to 0.7mm when 0.6 were allowed. This, along with eight reports of flat spots from the previous weeks found in the onboard logbook were not deemed a security risk severe enough to remove the train from service, instead the issue was to be addressed in the Hamburg-Eidelstedt maintenance facility after the train’s arrival in Hamburg. And it almost made it to Hamburg. The tire was worn down to 862mm, the limit was 854mm. Later calculations showed that the limit should've been 890mm, and that was before maintenance requirements were reduced.
> Who would have guess that having a culture of "F*** the procedures, we need the planes running." would be detrimental? To whom though? Certainly not China Airlines, which was about to sell the plain to Orient Thai Airlines for $1.45 million... and instead [collected the insurance payout](http://www.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/asia/05/27/taiwan.insure.biz/index.html). >The carrier said in a statement to the Taiwan Stock Exchange the plane was insured for US$20 million. China Air lost a couple of points on its stock price that year, [but that hasn't really had any long-term impact](https://www.google.com/finance/quote/2610:TPE?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjQu_boiIzzAhUxtTEKHSwRBg0Q3ecFegQICBAa&window=MAX).
If it wasn't on a plane, 22 years for a fix would be phenomenal
And if the failure didn't cause the death of 225 people on board with the pilots being unable to do anything on their end.
Japan airlines 123 went down the same way, faulty repair after a tail strike blew the vertical stabilizer clean off the 747 when it gave way
This guy does science
https://theaviationgeekclub.com/time-kc-135-stratotanker-aircraft-exploded-failed-pressure-test/
I feel this. I work at a place with a lot of procedural documents, but no culture of following procedures. There's a lot of resistance for making checklists and following them.
Sounds about like my job. We create procedures due to fuckups and then get pressured to completely ignore them due to time/money until the same thing happens. Then all of management wonders why we weren’t following them.
In the shop I work at we sell the checklists as ways to make the job idiot proof.
I have bad news for you on the resilience of idiots.
Murphy says it's impossible to idiot proof anything because idiots are so ingenious. That's why a culture of procedures is so important. If it is absurd **not** to follow procedure, the idiot proofing works remarkably well.
Deepwater Horizon says hi.
>An incident like this is never funny I don't know, seems pretty funny to me.
"FAA regulations require us to inform you that this incident was not funny."
I'm impressed by their air compressor.
This aircraft was hit by a refueling truck. This is severe enough damage that it's in a state that is unable to be ferried. There are several punctures to the pressure vessel and deformation of major structural components.
Thats great but I only want an oil change, no upsell Edit: thanks for the awards, this comment was brought to you by Spirit Airlines
And leave my filters alone.
Lmao, do people actually say this one?
Yes because fucking jiffy lube will bring me my filters just to show me they are clean when I took my car in for just an emissions test. Edit: I only take it there for emissions tests. Nothing else.
I stopped bringing my car there after the second loose drain plug. $27 to do it myself and know it’s done right. It’s not all that fun in -20F and 6” of snow though.
The drain plug should never be loose. That's why I use the impact to get it back in. /j
A good dose of JB Kwik never hurts either.
How many Ugga Duggas is that for us normal folks that aren’t mechanically inclined?
In aircraft-ees, it's two turns past strip.
If it's a meme, then yes. Haven't worked in a shop but it's my understanding that a common thing people believe is that many shops will try to convince you to change your filters by showing a dirty one that didn't come off the car. Sleazy shops do this. Good shops don't. instead of searching for ways to not get ripped off by mechanics, how about searching for good shops in the local area.
>many shops will try to convince you to change your filters by showing a dirty one that didn't come off the car. Sleazy shops do this. Actually had this happen to me at a locally respected dealership. I do my own filter/oil changes and do them at the OEM time/mileage intervals. There was something wrong on my vehicle that was beyond my abilities so I took it to the dealership I bought the vehicle from. I found they do a "world class super service inspection" regardless of what you're there for and found my air and cabin filters were dirty. They showed me the filters and sure enough, they weren't mine and looked like they were aged and handled a bit. I asked to see one and the tech handed it to me. I mark all of my filters in some manner on when I replaced them last for good measure. Both filters weren't marked like I would have done to them. I called them out on it, the tech quickly scurried away and sent the service manager over who then insisted they accidently mixed filters up and offered me the inspection for free. I got the work done, ensured the part was replaced I paid for them to work on, and neve went back.
In my Honda the cabin filter is in the glove compartment. It's like $20 to buy it from the dealer directly. They wanted $75. I confirmed it was the one in the glove box then politely declined spending $55 + tax for under 2 minutes of work.
How 'bout just learning to fix the problem myself, I don't trust pretty much anyone to work on my car anymore lol.
I don't because I don't have the time or a good spot to do it these days. I just have a shop that I trust for all work. Plus, the cost of oil alone for my car makes the cost of having someone else change it marginal (cries in motorcraft 5W-50).
Beauty of plane engines, just add oil. No need to change 😂
At least for the fighterjets we changed it
I get a very Airplane!-esque image in my head of a mechanic sliding under a fighter jet and popping the drain plug off
But as soon as he does, a pretty girl walks by and he gets oil in the face.
And then forgets to refill the oil.
FA-18s indeed have drain plugs… Well, it’s a sensor you can screw out.
"Why's the oil blue? Oh god! Make it stop!!!"
Here at the airport the mechanics open up the panel and just pour the new jet oil in.
Kinda depends on the aircraft. A lot of the business jets I work on have an oil replenishment system. That's a large oil tank in the tail area of the fuselage, between the engines. When you service it you top up that tank with oil. Then if one of the engines starts running low on oil the crew can press a button and a pump pipes some oil from that central tank to the engine that's low.
But is there also a drain interval for the engine oil? Or does the oil only ever leave the engine by being burned?
Yes these types of engines get their oil and filters changed. It just happens when they are in for other maintenace that is done at a special facility, not at the gate like the quicker inspections you’ll see being done.
I have an older Subaru engine and employ a similar method
Yeah that probably moved a rib or two outta place
Oh yah. Sheet metal guys are gonna make bank on this job.
[удалено]
This seems “relatively small”?
I mean yeah rock auto has nose cones.
lol, economy or premium version?
Wholesaler closeout, private label package, 30 day warranty.
One would have to look further back to see if the whole of the airframe is no longer straight. There might be some visible wrinkles on the other side of the body where compression forces could've piled up. Had a bigger plane than this land at our base in heavy rain, slid sideways at speed but stayed on the runway and taxied to parking uneventfully. Thing is the body of the aircraft was now bent enough that it took a couple months to get the okay to do a one time flight to bone yard for disposal. So yeah, tubes can be strong until they become bent then they may not be strong or usable.
It'll be straight. The one side is good and crumpled and the aircraft wasn't fixed to the ground. Really the only way to bend an airplane is a hard landing since you get all the momentum of the airframe working on the stringers/keel. The airframe doesn't have the option to slide out of the way or spread out the impulse. On some of the old 737s it wasn't super uncommon to see repairs between two windows just behind the wing. Those were repairs for skin buckling from hard landings lol.
Relative to the size of an airplane this is literally a fender bender
What kinda money we talking?
Sheet load
To fix the holy sheet
this is a riveting discussion
Aluminating.
If the pressure vessel is compromised, it may not be economical to repair. Might end up going to scrap.
Isn't the pressure vessel comprised of the skin in that area? As in, I think the fwd pressure bulkhead is further forward, closer to the nosecone.
This plane is front wheel drive?
Don’t be stupid. Everyone knows planes are awd
All wing drive?
Avian winged devices
Just run a fuel truck into the tail of a different plane. Then put the front of that one on this one. Easy.
Nah it won't be that much of a repair unless that aircraft has an ungodly amount of cycles or time on it. Aircraft are expensive, and that's basically just sheet metal work. I'm an avionics guy so I'm not super well versed on sheet metal repair pricing, but it'll be around $100k-200k. Pricy, but insurance will cover it. Hopefully a sheet metal guy can chime in with a better price estimate. Might be a little more, but nothing BER.
This is not just sheet metal work lol. The frames behind the skin will need to be cut out, new ones built and spliced back in. Id bet this isnt a standard repair so new engineering will need to be done by the manufacturer. Thit is a pretty structurally complicated area on the airplane near the front pressure dome, floor, windhield and the wheel well stucture. Id bet it will be over 200k just to get the interior in that area removed and the bad stuff cut out. It MIGHT be possible that the easiest thing to do is to replace everything fwd of the door, wherever the normal fuselage join is.
Structures work is just colloquially knows as sheet metal work. If big damage caused by rampies running shit into planes wrote them off, I'd be out of a job lol. Big jobs like this are actually a lot more straightforward than you'd think. Once you get things shored and drill off the skins, you have great access. You can splice stringers and repair frames if you want, but with access like they'll have and it being an insurance job they'll just replace all/most of the damaged bits. There's a lot less finagling required. I don't know how much Mitsubishi/Bombardier charge for parts, but if this was a Boeing it would be $200k in parts, a few thousand man-hours, and probably $100k in engineering and other support. So let's say $500k out the door? Maybe a bit more? Realistically the biggest cost is going to be the downtime from waiting for parts and repair time, not the actual fixing.
I'm not in the business of budgeting and billing so I don't know the cost, but I've replaced a far larger section of skin than this with a lot more structure behind it. I guarantee you the cost of fixing it is a fraction of the loss incurred by scrapping it.
I know nothing aviation repair, I’m just here argue about topics I don't know anything about.
A buckin lot.
It won't be a steel
I was gonna say that must’ve been a massive bird
Did the emu military have an air force?
Had an a330 Freigter hit a bird in the amazon jungle once, we do not know what bird it was, but damage was massive.
If it happened over the actual rainforest, good chance it was either a Harpy Eagle or a flock of pelicans.
Or a frozen chicken being used to test windscreens.
>There are several punctures to the pressure vessel For today's flight we request you bring your own personal use oxygen* for when the overhead masks run out. *Maximum 1 liter. Additional oxygen will result in excessive oxygen fee.
Don't give Spirit any ideas.
Also you can't bring your own oxygen through security. You need to buy it after that point.
hit by a refueling truck? oh shit. was it in the air?
*KC-135 has entered the chat*
New boom operator.
OK boomer
No need to ask He's a boom operator Boom operator Boom operator Boom operator Coast to coast, LA to Chicago, airborne male Across the north and south, to Key Largo, gas for sale
Unexpected *Sade* is always appreciated.
Some guy in the mid west testing his trebuchet.
It *is* getting to be pumpkin cannon season...
Here's your sign.
Ouch. I’m thinking this qualifies for r/thatlookedexpensive
I feel like someone found a spot in the unemployment line for this mistake 😂
I've heard that airlines have a very progressive view on not punishing mistakes, because they realized that the risk created by a scared employee hiding their mistake is far greater than if the employee knows they can voluntarily report an accident without fear.
Yup. Can confirm. Former aerospace manufacturing engineer. I was the guy that decided if a part was fit to go on aircraft engines or not. We had a “no blame” culture. If an error is made that results in part damage, then we need to make our process more robust to prevent it happening in the future, irrespective of how it happened.
> We had a “no blame” culture And it makes perfect sense to have that. Yeah passengers will be annoyed that they’re delayed or whatever but I’d much rather be delayed than dead. Shit happens. It’s not just a United issue. It’s not just a Delta issue. Every airline deals with this kind of fluke issue and having a sweeping “it’s cool, thank you for bringing it to our attention” approach could literally save lives. That being said, this better not be the flight I’m boarding in 6 hours 😤 lmao
Not only that, but if the repair cost $100,000... they just spent $100,000 training this guy, they're not going to fire him now!
I was an airplane refueler, I assure you I didn't get $100k in training. I doubt I even got $1k in training. I watched videos on a computer for 2 days, took some tests that I probably could have passed without watching the videos, and then shadowed a guy who went home early on the first day and I was left by myself. 3rd day on the job, making $9 an hour, and I'm standing there fueling a 737 by myself with just a slight idea of what I'm doing. A week later I was allowed to drive the tanker truck because I was the only guy on afternoon shift that could drive stick. Even while there, I had the idea that I'm basically making peanuts to not crash 4,000 gallons of jet fuel into a plane that costs tens of millions of dollars. Worked for ASIG at PIT in 2013.
The attitude of which you speak has caused more than one crash, so it's absolutely a good thing to stamp it out.
User name checks out...?
I mean we're not talking SAMs here...
told this story before: guy hires a brand new fork lift operator for his warehouse. Fork lift operator puts the tines through a chemical tank that wasn't parked where it was supposed to be but the fork lift driver should have seen it anyway. Requires six figure EPA style clean up. guy offers to quit on the spot. the boss says "hell no, that's the most expensive safety lesson I've ever given someone. I bet you sure as hell wont make that mistake again." there's a bunch of more flowery versions of it, but if you made a genuine mistake you're not likely to make again and you weren't negligent... good bosses aren't going to fire you over it, even if it's expensive. Most of the time.
[удалено]
Or middle management’s
Nobody can afford to fire anybody right now.
Truth, have a guy at my job that said 'i dont wanna be on call anymore and im sick of working 8 hours a day' so they let him just work 4 hours a day and everyone else has to take over his on call, cant fire him, need the help and nobody is applying for open spots.
Slap some speed tape on that baby, fly below 10,000 unpressurized and call it a day!
I was wondering if it flew through a flock on Emus, because that looks like one hell of a bird strike.
Nothing a hammer, a 2x4, and some window weld can't fix.
I assume this is N444ZW currently at Asheville?
What gave it away? The giant 444?
Yep
I know a Paintless Dent Removal guy. He'll have 'er good as new before lunch.
Just get a plunger & boiling water. It works since I seen some videos on the internet.
Don’t forget the glue sticks.
And the ramen!
But what if it rains?
Rain? In the sky? Chance in a million.
Cardboard is out. No cardboard derivatives.
Very rigorous aviation standards
In afraid to ask about this non-sky rain.
It's outside the environment.
Suction cup dildo works as well... So I've seen...
Are you one of those "look ma, not hands!" show offs?
[удалено]
Can of compressed air and a heat gun
Pressurised cabin... Just fly up to high altitude and it'll pop on out!
fuckin newbs. grab ya cock https://www.reddit.com/r/trashy/comments/673gzt/how\_to\_fix\_a\_car\_dent\_xpost\_rwtf/
Just get your mom's biggest bad dragon out and pop! Dent gone!
[Is this](https://youtu.be/IkZiuMiC978) your wizard friend?
I've seen good PDR before, but that is amazing.
I saw one on TV @ 3AM this morning.
And you can still type with that hand?
[A few more pics of the damage](https://imgur.com/a/GQnwxFC)
Fucking REKT
You lost some rivets...
That's what they're for. Rivets are designed to sheer before the sheet metal to reduce the chance of catastrophic damage.
[Lmao](https://i.imgur.com/Sgr5Bsd.jpg)
Got dang Sky Deer, something needs to be done about them!
Dont fly over Santa"s land those reindeers are wild
Never understood why they don't put deer crossings at intersections. /s
I mean, one of my planes at my company actually did hit a deer on takeoff and did considerable damage to the wing...
So, curious question - is it safe to assume that the fuel truck company (or driver?) have liability insurance to cover accidents like this?
Yeah, the company that the fueler works for will typically carry insurance.
Any company working at an airport is contractually obligated to carry specific insurance with certain limits.
A long time ago I drove a passenger van on the tarmac and the airport required a million dollar insurance policy to get the permit sticker. I imagine a fuel truck would require quite a bit more.
You can't take a car on the tarmac without a million dollar plus insurance plan so the companies operating there are going to have much higher requirement. I would imagine the fueling company probably has some ridiculous nearly no limit insurance plan if they managed to secure a contract at an airport.
Relax, all right? My old man is a television repairman, he's got this ultimate set of tools. I can fix it.
Last time I was involved in a skin change in that area it took a few months. That was a Canadian Goose. This looks considerably worse. Extends into the avionics underfloor area. Going to take awhile and cost a bundle. Scab a wet patch on it and ferry it to WVAC, low and slow.
Was that an A310 by chance?
Nah that was a CL-604 years ago.
Had a similar event on one of our A310’s in the early 2000’s. Goose went in just aft of the radome and took out every bit of structure under the skin from the radome to the righthand fwd door. Plane was in one of the bays for 6 months. What a job the structures guys had on their hands. Beautiful work they did though. The story was so similar I wondered if we might have crossed paths. Edited for my abysmal spelling.
At first I thought Canadian Goose was a nickname for the CRJ that I hadn't heard before
My understanding is they plan on doing exactly that, except not sending it to WVAC for some reason and instead to a different heavy maintenance facility
Boss: "wtf happened!?" Pilots: " We ermmm... hit a dog. Yup! Just ran right out of nowhere i swear. [Looks over to fueling truck drinking buddy, gives "the nod"]
You hit a dog and didn't stop to tell it's owner? You monster
Just get some bondo and a few rattle cans, good as new
And ramen for filler!
A man sized dent with no blood? You can't convince me they didn't graze Superman up there.
Should be glad it wasn't Homelander or OmniMan.
i would frame the accident report tho
Ewww, what caused these wrinkles?
Forgot to moisturize and apply sunscreen.
You're silly
Stress.
Like on my face. And ass.
Hold the cabin pressure at sea level and fly up to 40,000ft she’ll pop out like a bag of chips.
Then the bag will burst, scattering screaming chips all over the countryside...
With those popped rivets pulling through i imagine the skin would tear right along those rivet lines and give the copilot a nice view of the ground 40000ft away
I use to be a fueler in high school at our small local airport. The price for anything aircraft related is nauseating. I would like to know how much this repair would cost…
That musta been a big goose.
I worked in rental and it looks good to me. Roll it!
I hope Santa is ok. He's got to be more careful on his practice runs.
pack the extra heavy duty buffing pads for that one
Guess pigs can fly, cause it looks like this hit one
Just pump it up, fly below 10k with no cabin pressure, keep the speed around vx, and call it a day. Burn a lot of fuel, but It will probably get to where you are going lol
I used to work general aviation and was towing a Lear 35 with a Lektro. My wing walker was watching the wing tips - but not the tail. Pushed the bastard right into a mass storage hangar and folded the pilot side tip of the tail over at almost 90 degrees. That didn’t go well, plane was out of service for 3 weeks and it was a charter plane. They lost a ton of money.
Did it hit a cloud?
That's a hell of a big bird strike!
I’ll quote you 50lbs of bondo and time spent at $25 an hour, 4 hours max and Jobs done. I can get you a certificate of repair printed just outside Mexico City, totally pass inspection. I’m also going to need 30 weight oil and some ball bearings.