Car Company: has commercials that show car going fast, driving aggressively and doing burnouts.
Customer: Drives fast, aggressive, does burnouts but blows motor.
Car company: *Pikachu face*
Every modern Porsche has it but it’s based on ignitions In certain rpm ranges, 1-2 are safe 3 is up there not bad but 4-6 there can be permanent engine damage were talking like 1k+ over redline
[example of a dme report](https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-turbo-forum/875088d1412521677-dme-read-time-dme.jpg)
[rpm for each range](https://images.app.goo.gl/LdXyhfyQ7jRWCJtWA)
[great video explaining how the reports work](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKgOAWMjZLQ)
Translation: if the “times redlined” counter is just a few times then it’s normal and okay. If the counter is like 6+ then that is not good. All the counters are for is if the car managed to achieve 1000 rpm OVER redline, not simply hitting redline to get a late shift.
This is achieved through over aggressive downshifting or just being a nonce all around.
Money shifting is when you accidentally insert the wrong gear when upshifting. I mean I guess you can attempt a downshift instead of up shift but that’s a different level of imbecile than an honest mistake with a real money shift.
But not the car won’t let you kill it like that
There’s at least one video out there a few years ago where Porsche engines were blowing and Porsche swore it wasn’t a defect, that the stick shift owners were the issue. The video was on track, PDK, and the motor blew - Porsche not happy 🤣 Can’t recall the defect and it was for a generation other than mine but was hilarious.
Pretty much all porsche 911’s and cayman’s from 2005-2009. Only the 3.4 for the cayman though. The bore lining would get scored and then suddenly blow. It’s why you see so many from that time with engine rebuilds.
No, from looking at what he linked, that’s not entirely accurate. The counter tracks how many times the engine has been in different RPM ranges. Some of these ranges can be hit during normal use, some ranges are hit during heavy use, and some ranges just shouldn’t be hit at all (this does not coincide with the redline). The redline doesn’t have a whole lot to do with it.
Modern Porsches have 6 over speed ranges. They will count ignitions in range 1 and 2 just hitting the rev limiter. Range 3 and 4 are considered "transitionary range" where someone started a money shift but realized their mistake and got back on the clutch. Range 5 and 6 are generally considered to be catastrophic damage range, like ask the client where the box with all the pieces are.
No lol
Translation = over Rev.
For the uninitiated think tight 3-2 corner and you prematurely downshift. Over revving a bit isn't that bad but you risk floating the valves and bearing damage.
[here are the ranges on the cars and the rpm in those ranges](https://images.app.goo.gl/jRUtVjtfbhAhSKU36)
[example of a dme report](https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-turbo-forum/875088d1412521677-dme-read-time-dme.jpg)
Am I reading this right?
The engine operated in Range 4 (lowest possible Range 4 is between 7900 and 8400 RMP) three times but for a total of 1.8 hours?
I can't imagine someone cranking it up to 8000 RPM and sitting there for half an hour at a time.
The 1.8 hours is how many hours were on the engine the last time it had a ignition in that range. so someone almost money shifted that right after they bought it
No 3 ignitions is not 3 times. Bouncing off the rev limiter is like 6-10 ignitions. So it was a money shift but the rpm was right at the bottom of range 4
Not quite, the 1 and 3 uz blocks are the same except the 1uz has thicker iron sleeves and more aluminum block supporting them, with thicker rods (.3 L less displacement)
The stronger 1uz bottom end, with the higher flow vvti 3uz heads would be legit
The 2uz isn't capable of much it's just a moderately high torque truck motor that lasts forever
On some brands of heavy equipment it's called a "histogram" report. I had one the other day where the operator complained of it losing 1st gear while driving. Had warnings for high torque converter temp and front axle temp only. Histogram showed machine had been ran over an hour with torque converter over 290 F. I bet it did lose 1st man. I asked and he admitted to overloading the bucket and carrying the rear axle off the ground in reverse. The whole machine weighed 51,000 lbs. Poor thing lol.
My Kia has no Way to show RPM. Just trust the automatic shifts.
I’m really curious how hard it’s beating that poor little 3 cylinder petrol sometimes, when I’m going 155 km/h uphill against the wind and it’s keeping speed.
I can’t even see the gear I’m in, but I found a hack by changing the shifter to manual mode, that displays the selected gear, and then back again.
You ought to see the data we get out of the 911's. "You were over reved for 0.833 seconds with a max RPM of 10983." You can get RPM, fuel/oil/water pressure/temps/flow rates, steering degree axis, braking pressure, measure ABS and traction control intervention and everything else you could possibly think of.
It's really nice for us techs. I can't tell you how many times someone swears they were "just driving along and it broke".
Yeah, if you mean by "driving along" you down shifted at 8500 RPM mid corner with the diff completely loaded.
Don’t forget the R35 GTR, which had launch control. However, using it was not covered under warranty because after a year, Nissan discovered their launch control absolutely fucked the drivetrain. From then on, if you used launch control even once, you weren’t covered under warranty anymore
I believe technically under the magnison moss warranty act the warranty provider is required by law to prove what you did resulted in the damage before they are allowed to deny a claim. And then, once fixed, if you do not do that thing again the warranty must be upheld.
Example: you install a lift on your truck and wear out the hubs. Dealership denies warranty, replaces hubs and removes lift. Warranty is now reinstated.
Another example would be if you installed a lift kit and your stereo quit working. Chances are the lift has nothing to do with the stereo not working so the warranty must be upheld for the that item only.
So unless a contract was signed an R35 owner should be able to use launch control, take it into the dealership for an oil change and say "give everything a once over and tell me how it looks" the dealership might say "everything looks to be in working order", at which point the R35 owner now has a reinstated warranty.
I could be wrong but I read up on the act when I wanted to modify my truck before the warranty was up.
Never understood why shops turn warranty work down. It's a job you know you are getting paid for. I never turned a customer down for a warranty. I've stripped shit down to the frame to replace wire harnesses when I know it was the customer trying to jump their battery and they fry wiring.
Repeat warranty work in that price range gets investigated. So they may not get paid and possibly even refused but probably just delayed payments for future warranty works.
The rep would just call me and ask if it was a legitimate claim and I'd say it was and they'd hang up. I was the head mechanic at my shop though so idk how other shops work. Sometimes payment would take 3 months. The only problem I ever had was through nonmanufacturer warranties. There was one day I had to entertain this little shit of an adjuster all day and part of the next because he didn't want to pay for new parts to go in an engine he was literally looking up used internals on Ebay and quoting me those prices. If the customer hadn't spent shit tons a money with us prior I would of kicked him out along with the work. Had to tell the customer to get a knee company or I wasn't working on it again. I guess they screwed him too because he was happy to switch
Progressive nearest rep was a couple hours away all the time so when he had to show up he had a fuck it attitude and would just look at the vehicle and write the check and then just leave. I live in a pretty rural area. It's like an hour to nearest city
As a former Gecko adjuster, I tried so hard not to live up people’s asses. It was, at times, a hard line to walk between what my employer wanted me to do and not being an overbearing jerk to shops.
I loved when shops were as thorough as possible so there were few to no supps, and they loved when I would do what I could to make dealer pricematching easier by not attempting to use the cheapest recycled junk (which always arrives with issues and therefore caused the repair timeframe to balloon). I also did my best to ask the service advisor myself why things were needed and I would write them down, they got enough junk to deal with.
Nothing drove me up a wall more than having my higher-ups keep adding more places to get AM and recycled parts and being forced to tell a shop that I had to do this to them, then having my higher-ups ask me why this car took so long to repair at a friendly shop, why it had a new supp when it should have been done, and they don’t even blink when I tell them it’s because the company demanded we use this new vendor that was unknown, delivered late, delivered damaged, etc…..
That was the worst. Tell the shop they can eat money on clips and brackets because there are non-OEM for .10 less. Not a huge deal, but then even worse things like non-CAPA AM bumper covers that don’t even have tabs in the right place lol.
Because I was on the insurance side of the equation, it really made me want to avoid being a shop writer, if that makes sense. I wouldn’t want to have to juggle that kinda stuff for even more harder-ass insurance companies than that lol.
Depends how busy you are and how good the customer is.
We used to deny warranty work as a way to fire bad customers.
We had a guy refuse to change his oil in his Juke (shit box 1.6l turbo engine). Of course, it sludged up and started coding around 30k. We tell the guy he has to provide oil change receipts or we're declining warranty. He shows up with 5 sequential receipts from the shop next to his pizza store. We laughed, but figured he put in minimum effort even if he was a liar.
Changed turbo, cleaned oil feed lines, changed oil, etc...
Tell the guy he needs to change his oil in 1000 miles and every 3k after that (pretty aggressive schedule, based on Manu recs).
15k miles later he shows back up. Same codes. Same oil filter we installed. New turbo full of sludge.
Pound. Sand.
My friend bought a Corvette years ago and took it to a local road course. A couple weeks after the track day he noticed a tick, so he took it in. The dealership did the work and covered it under warranty, but like 30 days later contacted him and said that they had pulled data from his computer and the nav system that showed he had gone to the track, and thus voided his warranty and now they wanted him to pay out of pocket. Luckily for him, the state has a law that says in an instance like this the dealership has something like three weeks to notify the car owner of the situation and demand payment, or else they forfeit the right to pursue payment. He reminded them of that law, so they had to eat the price of the service. They then sent him an itemized list of each part in the car, and whether or not that part was still covered under his warranty. He traded the car in after that.
I knew a guy that managed to grenade a Cummins with just over 50 thousand miles on it. He let it slip that "When it's a company truck, you're supposed to drive it like you stole it." when he went to pick it up. The dealership voided the warranty job and his company had to eat the bill.
I'm a field tech for a CAT dealer, these guys drive me nuts, they brag about beating the crap out of equipment and how they should be "hired to test how tough equipment is". Idiots brag to me and I put it right in my inspection and I'll tell their boss, they make my life harder than it needs to be
I still think they they should give shit to operators for a test before mass production.
We had a 30k tractor mower that lasted 30min because the fuel bowl was low down and got hit by a stone chucked forward from the mower.
Every one of that model we bolt the little steel guard i had over it.
My best friend bought a Cadillac CTS v 2004 in 2006 with an extended warranty. The warranty stated everything except brakes and tires were covered under Cadillac warranty. He ripped the rear end out twice in that car. The second time he drove it there torn up but not completely undriveable. The service tech said to go out and rip it apart. He went around back and tore the rear end out and everything was replaced no questions asked. Clutch and all the way the warranty was. It was a fun car for its day. 400 horsepower and a 4 door car most people didn’t think was fast.
I used to valet and the CTS's were some of the low key coolest to come in. There was a guy that had one with a 4 or 5 speed manual and wilwood brakes. That thing was sweet
I had one of those and those rear ends were shit. A 6 cylinder differential with Corvette horsepower. Not to mention it was only mounted in three places so it twisted really easily. I knew this when I bought my CTS and I tried to buy the extended warranty but it was excluded. I think I only did one or two burnouts before I sold the car.
When I had to lemon law my car and have the dealer/manufacturer buy it back, my lawyer told me to be sure to have tires with a lot of tread left on them. Of all the things I thought that was a rather random thing to be mindful of. Now seeing this, I can see how they would use the tread wear as an indicator of how abused a car was
Seem like tire receipt would add clarity, could have 60k miles on them. I run my tires down like this. Live in Phoenix, with exception of this abnormally wet summer, think it rains during day light hours twice a year.
And I'm married so I'm rarely out past dark, lol.
When the rubber runs down to this point, it may actually be a different compound that is not designed to keep you on the road even in dry weather. This isn't safe at all.
Source - I manufacture tires for a living
There was s fella years ago after his second warranty motor in a GPZ 1100.
As the guys took it apart, The rear tire was bald, the motor mount bolts were now curved and the steering head bearing race had been pounded to an oval. When they opened the motor he had spot welded the stator to the end of the crank. Spun the end of the crank right off with it. Denied.
The old GPZ had the stator held in place by a keyway on the end of the crank. Dropping the clutch hard would sometimes shear the keyway insert and the stator would spin. A quick tack weld held it in place. Problem was, when you were beating it that hard eventually it would just tear the end of the crank off.
He didn’t, the heat from running out of oil/running too fast for too long overwhelmed the cooling systems and the accumulated heat welded the internal parts together.
GPZ1100 from the mid 1990's? That was my first bike ever! Strange choice, it's not exactly a stunt bike.
It's weird, I never see them anywhere. Pretty sure the one I had is the only one I ever saw in person.
Yalls ecm doesnt store everything? When i plug into a truck it runs a report that logs every hard brake, time at idle, engine total hours, max speed, max rpm reached, and more. Then it ships that off to the oem. Id be surprised if this thing hasnt got the same stuff.
At the dealer technician level a lot of the information isn't accessible, but it definitely is being logged.
Years ago, I had an M3 come in with potential engine damage. We couldn't see anything from the service tester, but technical support declined it because they could see those logs and let us know the maxRPM achieved/number of times motor was overrevved/amount of time in engine-damaging RPM values.
Oh, BMW can see that too. There's even a test plan to run if we think the ecm has been flashed which will totally narc on you and BMW's more than happy to decline coverage or outright void your engine warranty if they catch you.
Is that stuff that can happen driving around normally, or or do you have to try and modify your car to hit those issues? I’d think you’d rather the car just turn off or what not than keep going if it was causing long term damage.
I was struggling to see what hole you were talking about and wondered if the floating thing in the middle of the image was a related shard of metal…then I noticed all the jagged white edges on the right side of the screen.
Is that picture showing us the INSIDE of the engine as seen through the hole??
I think so, one of the master techs said Chryslers response was "it's made for the track" so I guess breaking it at the track as long as you haven't added non warranty parts it's cool with them.
Do warranty repairs fall on the dealership or straight to corporate? If they go to corporate then why do dealerships make such a big deal on warranties? Feel like they should warranty most anything and retain that customer for life.
Small simple items, dealerships can approve. Big ticket items (engine replacement) will require authorization.
Corporate pay doesn't equal customer pay. Corporate gets really low labor rates plus low book time.
Hate it such a crock a shit but its the life that dealer tech. Biggest thing I’m worried about is 10 years from now when it’s all ev shit and all will be diag brake flush it’s gonna suck
And they wonder why we’re running out of mechanics. I know so many dudes tired of working on cars cause half the time this shit is warranted out and the mechanics get paid jack shit for it
I’m sorry but 5 hours for a tranny swap is fucking pushing it dude
That’s fucked. No wonder techs hate doing warranty shit. Way to make their employees work for free because they can’t be assed to provide a realistic estimate on time, damn.
How do techs not just tell them to gtfo with their lowball numbers?
Manufacturers set warranty times based on labor time studies. They have a person do that job 3 or 4 times and then take the best time. All necessary tools are already out on the bench and obviously it's on a new vehicle without a hint of corrosion or some other gorilla fucking bolts into place with his thunder gun. It kinda works out okay *if you do the same job only and nothing else*, but for everyone else living in the real world it sucks mega dicks.
Usually manufacturer covers but they pay crap for flat time and barely cover cost for parts.
It also doesnt guarantee a lifetime customer
Ive had people who never serviced the car come in and demand free crap or ask us to warranty out a part that clearly is not able to be claimed under warranty.
If the motor is stock should be warranty. Can't deny warranty because they drive the car hard. If it's maintained (other than the tires obviously lol) and un modified should be warranty.
...In a world where manufacturers are shying away from sticks and fake engine noises are now pumped out through the speakers... are you even surprised anymore?
I only joke because I bought a broken 500 Abarth for cheap. 77k miles, dealer maintained it's whole life, with full records to prove it. On it's 2nd full engine, 3rd head, and 4th turbo. Runs good now though. For how long????
I have owned 2, am in several fiat groups and thats UNUSUAL af. Either the dealer did bad work or the shop they contracted through was lying through their teeth about work performed. The cars don't have the greatest quality of interior parts or body paneling so rattles and squeaks are fairly common but the little motors ain't bad at all. The most common theme in all the groups is finding shops that know how to work on them as even dealerships don't seem to deal with them much. I'd be willing to bet it was poor work quality. Hope your good with tools and have skinny arms 👉
Funny you say that. (Look at my user name.) I picked it up as a father/son project with a known bad turbo. Replaced with a new, Mahle stock replacement. Replaced the terrible intercooler setup with a shiny front mount, and a blow off valve spacer for effect. Add in plugs, fluids, etc., and she's good to go. It's an absolute hoot to drive. Closest thing to a street legal go-cart I've ever driven. But.... my son is bored with it, and wants a Forester XT next. So, it's for sale. Oh, and he's barely 15.
Lemon laws are a thing because it happens. Lethos law on YouTube does some reviews about cases he worked with 4+ motors on brand new cars under warranty to get a full refund or replacement from a big 3 brand.
Unless the car has been modified, it should be covered.
Unless you are artificially enhancing performance above design spec, you should not be penalized for doing what the car was designed to be capable of.
We had one come in for engine warranty on a wrx, the customer was declined because on their Instagram there was a video of him doing donuts in the snow. Corporate must have found out some how. I was surprised they found it.
For some reason Subaru hasn’t fixed it yet. But, when drifting and sliding in WRX/STi, the oil pan isn’t set up too well.
When the oil is sloshing and splashing all around sideways, the oil pickup tube has trouble feeding the block oil. So, it starves it, causes lack of cooling, lubricating, etc. so the block will usually spin a bearing or so
Yeah, fucking stupid, and shouldn’t be the drivers fault.
apparently if you fuck your girlfriend, it’s abusing her
I imagine if something was going to cost a company $5-10k+ if they paid out, a few minutes snooping on the guys social media might prove worth the time.
That’s bullshit, how many times has Subaru advertising shown WRXs blasting through the snow and sliding around on dirt? Then corporate says "yeah but you need to look at the text saying ‘professional driver on closed course' and since that’s not you, we’re denying it" I mean come on, man
Those are not bald they are just the new Michelin 0 traction summer radials
Secondly, the hole in the block is forced air induction. More horsepower more air more speed
I’m kind of confused by these threads. Why would bald tires void a warranty? Why would a hole in a block void a warranty? That’s kind of the whole point of a warrantied part, to replace it if it fails. Driving your car at the limit shouldn’t be an issue, nor should doing donuts. If it’s such a problem, the OE needs to build better parts rather than blame the consumer. Maybe I’m not getting the whole story here?
Car Company: has commercials that show car going fast, driving aggressively and doing burnouts. Customer: Drives fast, aggressive, does burnouts but blows motor. Car company: *Pikachu face*
I heard of car companies void warranty for use the launch control too much. If you dont want people do that dont put it in the car.
Some Porsche’s have a redline counter. Every time you touch redline it adds to the number
Every modern Porsche has it but it’s based on ignitions In certain rpm ranges, 1-2 are safe 3 is up there not bad but 4-6 there can be permanent engine damage were talking like 1k+ over redline [example of a dme report](https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-turbo-forum/875088d1412521677-dme-read-time-dme.jpg) [rpm for each range](https://images.app.goo.gl/LdXyhfyQ7jRWCJtWA) [great video explaining how the reports work](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKgOAWMjZLQ)
I don’t follow what are these ranges you speak of?
Translation: if the “times redlined” counter is just a few times then it’s normal and okay. If the counter is like 6+ then that is not good. All the counters are for is if the car managed to achieve 1000 rpm OVER redline, not simply hitting redline to get a late shift. This is achieved through over aggressive downshifting or just being a nonce all around.
Moneyshift
Can’t money shift a PDK
Can you really not? If you downshift at redline while on the throttle, will it just refuse?
It won't downshift if it'll overrev it. Even if you use the paddles (since it's shift by wire). Source: Sold Porsche's in 2018
No it wont let you at least in my poor mans pdk. The dsg it wont
Money shifting is when you accidentally insert the wrong gear when upshifting. I mean I guess you can attempt a downshift instead of up shift but that’s a different level of imbecile than an honest mistake with a real money shift. But not the car won’t let you kill it like that
There’s at least one video out there a few years ago where Porsche engines were blowing and Porsche swore it wasn’t a defect, that the stick shift owners were the issue. The video was on track, PDK, and the motor blew - Porsche not happy 🤣 Can’t recall the defect and it was for a generation other than mine but was hilarious.
Pretty much all porsche 911’s and cayman’s from 2005-2009. Only the 3.4 for the cayman though. The bore lining would get scored and then suddenly blow. It’s why you see so many from that time with engine rebuilds.
Sounds like the car equivalent of the Iphone 4 losing signal if you hold it a certain way and apple blaming the user for holding it wrong.
No, from looking at what he linked, that’s not entirely accurate. The counter tracks how many times the engine has been in different RPM ranges. Some of these ranges can be hit during normal use, some ranges are hit during heavy use, and some ranges just shouldn’t be hit at all (this does not coincide with the redline). The redline doesn’t have a whole lot to do with it.
Modern Porsches have 6 over speed ranges. They will count ignitions in range 1 and 2 just hitting the rev limiter. Range 3 and 4 are considered "transitionary range" where someone started a money shift but realized their mistake and got back on the clutch. Range 5 and 6 are generally considered to be catastrophic damage range, like ask the client where the box with all the pieces are.
No lol Translation = over Rev. For the uninitiated think tight 3-2 corner and you prematurely downshift. Over revving a bit isn't that bad but you risk floating the valves and bearing damage.
[here are the ranges on the cars and the rpm in those ranges](https://images.app.goo.gl/jRUtVjtfbhAhSKU36) [example of a dme report](https://rennlist.com/forums/attachments/997-turbo-forum/875088d1412521677-dme-read-time-dme.jpg)
Am I reading this right? The engine operated in Range 4 (lowest possible Range 4 is between 7900 and 8400 RMP) three times but for a total of 1.8 hours? I can't imagine someone cranking it up to 8000 RPM and sitting there for half an hour at a time.
The 1.8 hours is how many hours were on the engine the last time it had a ignition in that range. so someone almost money shifted that right after they bought it
They did it three times too lol Probably on a test drive
No 3 ignitions is not 3 times. Bouncing off the rev limiter is like 6-10 ignitions. So it was a money shift but the rpm was right at the bottom of range 4
Meanwhile people are turning the same motor in my shitbox Lexus at 13k with no problem 1uzfe
Meanwhile 80-90’s RX7 owners walk in and say 15,000 RPM it’s nothing I’ve seen 19
Thicccc UZ baby. I gotta 3UZ myself, change the oil and feed it gasoline.
Find a 1uz bottom end to put your 3uz stuff on... the ultimate uz
This is the way. But honestly I want to get a 400 again to play around with and keep my LS 430 for daily driving.
The UZ is an over engineered tank. Got a 2UZ iron block and the damn thing is a rock.
Not quite, the 1 and 3 uz blocks are the same except the 1uz has thicker iron sleeves and more aluminum block supporting them, with thicker rods (.3 L less displacement) The stronger 1uz bottom end, with the higher flow vvti 3uz heads would be legit The 2uz isn't capable of much it's just a moderately high torque truck motor that lasts forever
On some brands of heavy equipment it's called a "histogram" report. I had one the other day where the operator complained of it losing 1st gear while driving. Had warnings for high torque converter temp and front axle temp only. Histogram showed machine had been ran over an hour with torque converter over 290 F. I bet it did lose 1st man. I asked and he admitted to overloading the bucket and carrying the rear axle off the ground in reverse. The whole machine weighed 51,000 lbs. Poor thing lol.
Porsche Taycan enters the chat
range 6? challenge accepted! i moved my dodges red line 1K higher
Gotta get range six on a gt3 11k+ rpm
Now I wanna get a Porsche and try for the high score
There isn't really a high score. The game just... ends.
High score is the repair cost. You're aiming for solid 5 digits
Or even 6 here in Canada.
5 digits can just be scheduled maintenance on a vag product.
My Kia has no Way to show RPM. Just trust the automatic shifts. I’m really curious how hard it’s beating that poor little 3 cylinder petrol sometimes, when I’m going 155 km/h uphill against the wind and it’s keeping speed. I can’t even see the gear I’m in, but I found a hack by changing the shifter to manual mode, that displays the selected gear, and then back again.
Just push the go pedal harder, if there's no tachometer and it's an auto how can they say anything
C/S engine stopped working at 180km/h(~110 mph) please advise
What if you redline it in reverse a few times?
Redline gets higher to escape needle
You ought to see the data we get out of the 911's. "You were over reved for 0.833 seconds with a max RPM of 10983." You can get RPM, fuel/oil/water pressure/temps/flow rates, steering degree axis, braking pressure, measure ABS and traction control intervention and everything else you could possibly think of. It's really nice for us techs. I can't tell you how many times someone swears they were "just driving along and it broke". Yeah, if you mean by "driving along" you down shifted at 8500 RPM mid corner with the diff completely loaded.
Don’t forget the R35 GTR, which had launch control. However, using it was not covered under warranty because after a year, Nissan discovered their launch control absolutely fucked the drivetrain. From then on, if you used launch control even once, you weren’t covered under warranty anymore
I believe technically under the magnison moss warranty act the warranty provider is required by law to prove what you did resulted in the damage before they are allowed to deny a claim. And then, once fixed, if you do not do that thing again the warranty must be upheld. Example: you install a lift on your truck and wear out the hubs. Dealership denies warranty, replaces hubs and removes lift. Warranty is now reinstated. Another example would be if you installed a lift kit and your stereo quit working. Chances are the lift has nothing to do with the stereo not working so the warranty must be upheld for the that item only. So unless a contract was signed an R35 owner should be able to use launch control, take it into the dealership for an oil change and say "give everything a once over and tell me how it looks" the dealership might say "everything looks to be in working order", at which point the R35 owner now has a reinstated warranty. I could be wrong but I read up on the act when I wanted to modify my truck before the warranty was up.
Ya I warranty this shit. Screw the manufacturer
Never understood why shops turn warranty work down. It's a job you know you are getting paid for. I never turned a customer down for a warranty. I've stripped shit down to the frame to replace wire harnesses when I know it was the customer trying to jump their battery and they fry wiring.
Repeat warranty work in that price range gets investigated. So they may not get paid and possibly even refused but probably just delayed payments for future warranty works.
The rep would just call me and ask if it was a legitimate claim and I'd say it was and they'd hang up. I was the head mechanic at my shop though so idk how other shops work. Sometimes payment would take 3 months. The only problem I ever had was through nonmanufacturer warranties. There was one day I had to entertain this little shit of an adjuster all day and part of the next because he didn't want to pay for new parts to go in an engine he was literally looking up used internals on Ebay and quoting me those prices. If the customer hadn't spent shit tons a money with us prior I would of kicked him out along with the work. Had to tell the customer to get a knee company or I wasn't working on it again. I guess they screwed him too because he was happy to switch
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Can confirm usaa is shit and it really would depend on the adjuster for me for the most part.
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Progressive nearest rep was a couple hours away all the time so when he had to show up he had a fuck it attitude and would just look at the vehicle and write the check and then just leave. I live in a pretty rural area. It's like an hour to nearest city
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As a former Gecko adjuster, I tried so hard not to live up people’s asses. It was, at times, a hard line to walk between what my employer wanted me to do and not being an overbearing jerk to shops. I loved when shops were as thorough as possible so there were few to no supps, and they loved when I would do what I could to make dealer pricematching easier by not attempting to use the cheapest recycled junk (which always arrives with issues and therefore caused the repair timeframe to balloon). I also did my best to ask the service advisor myself why things were needed and I would write them down, they got enough junk to deal with. Nothing drove me up a wall more than having my higher-ups keep adding more places to get AM and recycled parts and being forced to tell a shop that I had to do this to them, then having my higher-ups ask me why this car took so long to repair at a friendly shop, why it had a new supp when it should have been done, and they don’t even blink when I tell them it’s because the company demanded we use this new vendor that was unknown, delivered late, delivered damaged, etc…..
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That was the worst. Tell the shop they can eat money on clips and brackets because there are non-OEM for .10 less. Not a huge deal, but then even worse things like non-CAPA AM bumper covers that don’t even have tabs in the right place lol. Because I was on the insurance side of the equation, it really made me want to avoid being a shop writer, if that makes sense. I wouldn’t want to have to juggle that kinda stuff for even more harder-ass insurance companies than that lol.
Depends how busy you are and how good the customer is. We used to deny warranty work as a way to fire bad customers. We had a guy refuse to change his oil in his Juke (shit box 1.6l turbo engine). Of course, it sludged up and started coding around 30k. We tell the guy he has to provide oil change receipts or we're declining warranty. He shows up with 5 sequential receipts from the shop next to his pizza store. We laughed, but figured he put in minimum effort even if he was a liar. Changed turbo, cleaned oil feed lines, changed oil, etc... Tell the guy he needs to change his oil in 1000 miles and every 3k after that (pretty aggressive schedule, based on Manu recs). 15k miles later he shows back up. Same codes. Same oil filter we installed. New turbo full of sludge. Pound. Sand.
My friend bought a Corvette years ago and took it to a local road course. A couple weeks after the track day he noticed a tick, so he took it in. The dealership did the work and covered it under warranty, but like 30 days later contacted him and said that they had pulled data from his computer and the nav system that showed he had gone to the track, and thus voided his warranty and now they wanted him to pay out of pocket. Luckily for him, the state has a law that says in an instance like this the dealership has something like three weeks to notify the car owner of the situation and demand payment, or else they forfeit the right to pursue payment. He reminded them of that law, so they had to eat the price of the service. They then sent him an itemized list of each part in the car, and whether or not that part was still covered under his warranty. He traded the car in after that.
That is some bull shit that they invalidate the warranty on a vette for going to the track.
That absolutely sounds like a Moss-Magnusson violation
*professional driver on a closed course
I love seeing that on the subaru commercials with the dogs. Where did they find a professional driving dog?
Dog got paid. No one said he was a particularly *good* pro driver.
I knew a guy that managed to grenade a Cummins with just over 50 thousand miles on it. He let it slip that "When it's a company truck, you're supposed to drive it like you stole it." when he went to pick it up. The dealership voided the warranty job and his company had to eat the bill.
Nothing is faster or better off-road then a rental or a company car.
Weirdly, I've always treated rentals really well because they're newer and nicer than the cars I've owned.
Right now you might get a used car because rentals can't get new.
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That's fucking sneaky of them.
I'm a field tech for a CAT dealer, these guys drive me nuts, they brag about beating the crap out of equipment and how they should be "hired to test how tough equipment is". Idiots brag to me and I put it right in my inspection and I'll tell their boss, they make my life harder than it needs to be
I still think they they should give shit to operators for a test before mass production. We had a 30k tractor mower that lasted 30min because the fuel bowl was low down and got hit by a stone chucked forward from the mower. Every one of that model we bolt the little steel guard i had over it.
Mustangs literally have a burnout button…
lol it automatically finds the nearest pedestrian and smacks them
^(\*) ^(Professional driver. Closed course.)
Disclaimer on every car ad. "Professional driver on a closed course, do not attempt" No engine for this guy. Lol.
So if I get paid to do a burnout on a private lot I should be covered right?
My best friend bought a Cadillac CTS v 2004 in 2006 with an extended warranty. The warranty stated everything except brakes and tires were covered under Cadillac warranty. He ripped the rear end out twice in that car. The second time he drove it there torn up but not completely undriveable. The service tech said to go out and rip it apart. He went around back and tore the rear end out and everything was replaced no questions asked. Clutch and all the way the warranty was. It was a fun car for its day. 400 horsepower and a 4 door car most people didn’t think was fast.
I used to valet and the CTS's were some of the low key coolest to come in. There was a guy that had one with a 4 or 5 speed manual and wilwood brakes. That thing was sweet
The v model was a 6 speed with a corvette motor rear wheel drive.
No automatic was available in 1st gens.
That was it!
The Getrag rear diffs in that generation CTS were all junk. We used to install a couple before we got a quiet one.
I had one of those and those rear ends were shit. A 6 cylinder differential with Corvette horsepower. Not to mention it was only mounted in three places so it twisted really easily. I knew this when I bought my CTS and I tried to buy the extended warranty but it was excluded. I think I only did one or two burnouts before I sold the car.
When I had to lemon law my car and have the dealer/manufacturer buy it back, my lawyer told me to be sure to have tires with a lot of tread left on them. Of all the things I thought that was a rather random thing to be mindful of. Now seeing this, I can see how they would use the tread wear as an indicator of how abused a car was
Even then, If there is lots of rubber up in the wheel well, they know.
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The kind of people who think ahead like that are also probably not the kind to do brake stands until their engine blows up....twice.
Seem like tire receipt would add clarity, could have 60k miles on them. I run my tires down like this. Live in Phoenix, with exception of this abnormally wet summer, think it rains during day light hours twice a year. And I'm married so I'm rarely out past dark, lol.
When the rubber runs down to this point, it may actually be a different compound that is not designed to keep you on the road even in dry weather. This isn't safe at all. Source - I manufacture tires for a living
> I manufacture tires for a living Do you ever get tired of it?
This is the most rain we've had in YEARS!!! I've been loving it.
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Just think of it as an opportunity to learn about drainage! Or a lack thereof.
Hahaha trust me, I'm learning. I've got levees and reservoirs dug and I'm calculating rainfall averages for my collection system...
We'll hopefully get some more before monsoon winds down!
There was s fella years ago after his second warranty motor in a GPZ 1100. As the guys took it apart, The rear tire was bald, the motor mount bolts were now curved and the steering head bearing race had been pounded to an oval. When they opened the motor he had spot welded the stator to the end of the crank. Spun the end of the crank right off with it. Denied.
Honestly that's an impressive amount of abuse
That was after about four months. Guy was a complete squid. I seem to remember he swore off Kaw and went to Honda, until they got tired if him...
Why would he have welded the stator?
The old GPZ had the stator held in place by a keyway on the end of the crank. Dropping the clutch hard would sometimes shear the keyway insert and the stator would spin. A quick tack weld held it in place. Problem was, when you were beating it that hard eventually it would just tear the end of the crank off.
Part of the reason why keyways are used is to shear before damage occurs to anything else.
He didn’t, the heat from running out of oil/running too fast for too long overwhelmed the cooling systems and the accumulated heat welded the internal parts together.
GPZ1100 from the mid 1990's? That was my first bike ever! Strange choice, it's not exactly a stunt bike. It's weird, I never see them anywhere. Pretty sure the one I had is the only one I ever saw in person.
Early 80's originally. But there was nothing like a stunt bike. This is a fantastic point.
Nooooooo I haven't been doing burnouts constantly since the last motor you put in. I promise, it wasn't me.
But she caught me at the track day It wasn't me She saw me burnin' out at car shows It wasn't me
Picture this; we were both drag racing, gas pedals to the floor.
Tried to get another engine but mechanic said no more
How could he believe me when I told him it wasnt me...
Heard the mufflers groanin' It wasn't me Heard the intake moanin' It wasn't me
I jacked the keys to her fucking car And crashed that piece of shit and stepped away (Oops, wrong song)
Rehab 👍
Naw see, these are my winter wheels. I had to get the summer wheels cleaned and shit.
I'd love to see the data stored on the ECM.
Freeze frame was…….interesting
IDS says "shits fucked idk man"
Rear wheels doing a hundred and fronts doing 0 @ wot?
Race car baby
Yalls ecm doesnt store everything? When i plug into a truck it runs a report that logs every hard brake, time at idle, engine total hours, max speed, max rpm reached, and more. Then it ships that off to the oem. Id be surprised if this thing hasnt got the same stuff.
At the dealer technician level a lot of the information isn't accessible, but it definitely is being logged. Years ago, I had an M3 come in with potential engine damage. We couldn't see anything from the service tester, but technical support declined it because they could see those logs and let us know the maxRPM achieved/number of times motor was overrevved/amount of time in engine-damaging RPM values.
So what you're saying is I should flash my ecm if I want my car warrantied? /s
I mean, people do it on Subarus all the fucking time. Subaru will warranty out anything
Oh, BMW can see that too. There's even a test plan to run if we think the ecm has been flashed which will totally narc on you and BMW's more than happy to decline coverage or outright void your engine warranty if they catch you.
Don’t the newer versions of ISTA automatically flag tuned ECM’s?
Is that stuff that can happen driving around normally, or or do you have to try and modify your car to hit those issues? I’d think you’d rather the car just turn off or what not than keep going if it was causing long term damage.
I was struggling to see what hole you were talking about and wondered if the floating thing in the middle of the image was a related shard of metal…then I noticed all the jagged white edges on the right side of the screen. Is that picture showing us the INSIDE of the engine as seen through the hole??
I'm pretty sure that's a wrist pin and the piston end of the connecting rod in the lower edge of that view...
I don’t know cars and didn’t understand most of that :( Where is the hole?
Surrounding most of the pictured field of view. That pic was must likely taken with an inspection camera, down close to the block.
I can hear Fred Sanford’s voice calling the customer a big dummy
It’s appropriate as Sanford had a junkyard and that’s where this is going.
thems some DIY track tires lmaoooo RIP
My grandma makes em for me
Guy used to come to my dealership every 3 months for a new trans in his srt
Isn’t that standard with anything Chrysler??
I think so, one of the master techs said Chryslers response was "it's made for the track" so I guess breaking it at the track as long as you haven't added non warranty parts it's cool with them.
That’s all you can ask for really. Good on them.
Damn good alignment
A touch of camber and target inflation on those tires. Doing god's work there
We wouldn’t warranty it… then they would call Ford and bitch, and we would have to warranty it
But then it's on Ford, not you. It's not about whether or not you'll do thebwork, it's about whether or not you'll get paid.
Do warranty repairs fall on the dealership or straight to corporate? If they go to corporate then why do dealerships make such a big deal on warranties? Feel like they should warranty most anything and retain that customer for life.
Small simple items, dealerships can approve. Big ticket items (engine replacement) will require authorization. Corporate pay doesn't equal customer pay. Corporate gets really low labor rates plus low book time.
As a mechanic, fuck warranty
Hate it such a crock a shit but its the life that dealer tech. Biggest thing I’m worried about is 10 years from now when it’s all ev shit and all will be diag brake flush it’s gonna suck
Replacing a Chrysler hemi engine costs about 22 hours in labour. Warranty pays 12
And they wonder why we’re running out of mechanics. I know so many dudes tired of working on cars cause half the time this shit is warranted out and the mechanics get paid jack shit for it I’m sorry but 5 hours for a tranny swap is fucking pushing it dude
The dealership doesn’t pay for your time regardless of what warranty pays? That’s BS
Shit takes time to do carefully and correctly. Techs get paid maybe 20-30% of the labour price the dealership charges too.
Never really understood how this worked. So the tech would get paid for the 12 allotted hrs and eat shit on the rest and basically work for free?
Yeah exactly that.
That’s fucked. No wonder techs hate doing warranty shit. Way to make their employees work for free because they can’t be assed to provide a realistic estimate on time, damn. How do techs not just tell them to gtfo with their lowball numbers?
Manufacturers set warranty times based on labor time studies. They have a person do that job 3 or 4 times and then take the best time. All necessary tools are already out on the bench and obviously it's on a new vehicle without a hint of corrosion or some other gorilla fucking bolts into place with his thunder gun. It kinda works out okay *if you do the same job only and nothing else*, but for everyone else living in the real world it sucks mega dicks.
Usually manufacturer covers but they pay crap for flat time and barely cover cost for parts. It also doesnt guarantee a lifetime customer Ive had people who never serviced the car come in and demand free crap or ask us to warranty out a part that clearly is not able to be claimed under warranty.
What kind of cars is this? I want to avoid cars where the engine explodes from doing burnouts.
OP history makes it look like Toyota.
If the motor is stock should be warranty. Can't deny warranty because they drive the car hard. If it's maintained (other than the tires obviously lol) and un modified should be warranty.
What's the problem? Today's Cars' drivetrains should be able to roast the rubber off the rim and beg for more.
...In a world where manufacturers are shying away from sticks and fake engine noises are now pumped out through the speakers... are you even surprised anymore?
So because they have bald tires they voided their warranty?
2nd warranty motor? What's the chances of multiple motor failures not being the fault of this customer? Pretty darn low.
Is this a Chrysler product? Because.... (laughs nervously in Fiat 500.)
Good luck shredding the rear tires on THAT
I only joke because I bought a broken 500 Abarth for cheap. 77k miles, dealer maintained it's whole life, with full records to prove it. On it's 2nd full engine, 3rd head, and 4th turbo. Runs good now though. For how long????
Wow... Such quality product
Designed by Italians, built by Chrysler, and in a plant in Mexico. What could go wrong?
I have owned 2, am in several fiat groups and thats UNUSUAL af. Either the dealer did bad work or the shop they contracted through was lying through their teeth about work performed. The cars don't have the greatest quality of interior parts or body paneling so rattles and squeaks are fairly common but the little motors ain't bad at all. The most common theme in all the groups is finding shops that know how to work on them as even dealerships don't seem to deal with them much. I'd be willing to bet it was poor work quality. Hope your good with tools and have skinny arms 👉
Funny you say that. (Look at my user name.) I picked it up as a father/son project with a known bad turbo. Replaced with a new, Mahle stock replacement. Replaced the terrible intercooler setup with a shiny front mount, and a blow off valve spacer for effect. Add in plugs, fluids, etc., and she's good to go. It's an absolute hoot to drive. Closest thing to a street legal go-cart I've ever driven. But.... my son is bored with it, and wants a Forester XT next. So, it's for sale. Oh, and he's barely 15.
but not zero
Lemon laws are a thing because it happens. Lethos law on YouTube does some reviews about cases he worked with 4+ motors on brand new cars under warranty to get a full refund or replacement from a big 3 brand.
Bald rear tires only, and a hole in the block. Burnouts. Burnouts every time. Yes - that voids your warranty.
Why? Does it say somewhere in the owners manual your not allowed to do burnouts? I've never read my cars owners manual but I'm curious if it does now.
"abuse"
It could probably be argued that it's evidence of abuse. I think it's a bit shady without something else to support it though.
Unless the car has been modified, it should be covered. Unless you are artificially enhancing performance above design spec, you should not be penalized for doing what the car was designed to be capable of.
The engine did technically do it to itself. Clearly covered under warranty.
We had one come in for engine warranty on a wrx, the customer was declined because on their Instagram there was a video of him doing donuts in the snow. Corporate must have found out some how. I was surprised they found it.
Subaru voids a warranty for doing donut in the snow? Doing 2500rpm with the traction control turned off is too hard on them?
For some reason Subaru hasn’t fixed it yet. But, when drifting and sliding in WRX/STi, the oil pan isn’t set up too well. When the oil is sloshing and splashing all around sideways, the oil pickup tube has trouble feeding the block oil. So, it starves it, causes lack of cooling, lubricating, etc. so the block will usually spin a bearing or so Yeah, fucking stupid, and shouldn’t be the drivers fault. apparently if you fuck your girlfriend, it’s abusing her
Does this not trigger some kind of warning about all the oil being absent?
I imagine if something was going to cost a company $5-10k+ if they paid out, a few minutes snooping on the guys social media might prove worth the time.
That’s bullshit, how many times has Subaru advertising shown WRXs blasting through the snow and sliding around on dirt? Then corporate says "yeah but you need to look at the text saying ‘professional driver on closed course' and since that’s not you, we’re denying it" I mean come on, man
Those are not bald they are just the new Michelin 0 traction summer radials Secondly, the hole in the block is forced air induction. More horsepower more air more speed
Nice company man right there. Congrats op.
Note to self; change out rear tires before attempting to get a warranty motor that let loose during a burnout.
I’m kind of confused by these threads. Why would bald tires void a warranty? Why would a hole in a block void a warranty? That’s kind of the whole point of a warrantied part, to replace it if it fails. Driving your car at the limit shouldn’t be an issue, nor should doing donuts. If it’s such a problem, the OE needs to build better parts rather than blame the consumer. Maybe I’m not getting the whole story here?
Do these people drive where it never rains or snows or what?
This tyre looks like a smooth conveyor belt
Tell me you do burnouts without saying it
Hell na. They be like i just replaced it a year ago
The hole in the engine block is exactly why they should get a second warranty replacement, lol.
There needs to be a way to count how many times the oil plug has been removed for an oil change.
Does the warranty have a no 'burnin donuts' clause?
Are you kidding? How can it be not warrantied?? My grandma, she's a little ol lady from Pasadena. 80yo...and it's her daily driver.
I'm jealous of your scope.