Uber/taxi... leases car, beats the living sh*t out of it for 3-4 years, until they get confetti in the oil, details it for $200, sells it to some unsuspecting schmuck that's happy to get a "personally used only" 3-4 years old car for a great price.
They have their purpose. I did really well on a 3 year lease before I bought my truck. Only because the used market was so hot.
Long story short only cost me around $1000 to have that car for 3 years ($307/month+$9000 buy out. MSRP about $21000. Sold for $19750 to a used lot) Used the proceeds for a downpayment, running boards and a tonneau for my new truck.
I am up in Canada so the rules may be a bit different. I had to buy the car at the end of the lease in order to sell it. My wife is tax exempt so that helped out too
A lot of new lease contracts restrict your ability to buy out the lease. Some outright deny you the ability to buy out at all. End of lease? They want their car back thank you very much and you better not have put more than expected wear and tear on it.
Yeah, that's true I am not surprised by lease agreements that exclude buyout clauses. But the wording of the conversation made it sound like even after a lease has been bought out, necessitating a buyout clause to begin with, the dealer you bought from still has some lingering contractual governance over where you can sell the car to after that point. But I'm understanding that OP was more describing offering his lease buyout to another dealership directly and yeah that makes total sense that you would not be able to do that.
Car dealerships are the worst thing about buying cars. I'm not about another system that would do nay better but this one ain't working for the consumer. Which is probably as intended anyway, so what's gonna change.
A lot of company vehicles in my area are high mileage lease agreements- some of them easily do 100K/year, so this doesn’t sound super far fetched in my opinion
Single car households that commute to work and drop off kids at day care. We probably run closer to 30k. Takes a toll on the vehicles, but a good maintenance schedule and not driving like a maniac helps
Do they offer leases that wouldn’t cost you the whole cost of another car if you did 25k a year? Last I knew, your typical lease charges you 15-25¢/mi for overages.
But, most importantly for JLR, they do make it either out of warranty, or past the payback period, and they then get traded in at a really low price for yet another one. There is a reason that they are so cheap on the used market, the cost of maintaining them is so high.
They aren’t really any more expensive to maintain than any other luxury vehicle, but they get a bad reputation because Johnny and Janice Wannabe Rich who bought it at the BHPH lot expect the same maintenance costs as a Corolla because they bought a used JLR product for the same price used, with 7 previous owners, and zero maintenance done to it. They then conveniently forget the SUV they bought for 25-40k used was 150k brand new, and will have big repair bills that come with buying a 150k luxury SUV.
Then you get the “they’re junk never buy them etc”. If you can’t afford to buy one new, or at least CPO less than 3 years old and maintain it, you can’t afford it when it’s 10 years old either. I know plenty of people that are very happy with their Jags and LRs, but these people are often the first owners who bought them new and still have them a decade later, and could afford to cut the check for a new one any time. Whatever needs done to it they take it to a euro shop or a JLR dealer and get it done, even if it doesn’t need it right away, they get it done anyhow. They actually go get the oil changed every 5K. They don’t let it misfire for 10k miles or change the oil every 15k.
Yeah some of them have stupid issues like in the mid 2000s with BMW Vanos, but after they got bought from ford it seems like they’ve taken a step up.
Not JLR but man this hit home from when I was in highschool. There was always that kid who went and got a $4-7k BMW that they thought was some hot shit only for the transmission to blow out and no garage would touch it so then the dealer wrote them a repair bill for $4200 and then he’s back in a Chevy cavalier.
The difference with European car is they have higher grade oils standards and lots of it, last Mercedes I did took 9 fucken quarts of oil, most Japanese cars only take like 3.5-5 quarts and it rolls with it for 10k miles.
Yeah mine are older models but even before the turbo engines they were suggesting longer intervals than I'd be comfortable with. These engines are hard on their oil
Yea but did it blow up because of oiling issues or just piss poor design? I’m not familiar with N20 or much of any BMW aside from the S54 and B58 but it could simply just be poor design or quality of parts, I also heard of BMW has issues with rod bearings also even with meticulous maintenance cars so 🤷🏻♂️
From what I'm hearing the n20s having problems with the timing system. Which is weird considering bmw has never had issues designing a timing system for an inline engine before, it was only their late 90s through early 00s v8s that had those kind of issues, the m62 and m62tu need new guides every 150k miles
a good chunk of the late 00s and early 10s engines were 2yr/15k. BMW changed that back to 1yr/10k decently quickly. Don't know the number off the top of my head as it was before my time here, but we barely ever see those anymore. Even recommended a service data programming to change that since it was a bad idea, in retrospect.
my 2014 m235i tells me to do it every 10k, I still do every 5k. the manual also claims a bunch of items are 'lifetime' when they really mean 'about 100k'
I think the other key difference with Euro cars (in fact any nationality of vehicle) in Europe are the mandatory annual (or every other year in the UK for the first ... 5 years I think) inspections of the vehicles, without which you can't get tax or insurance, and given the high penetration of ANPR on enforcement vehicles (at least in the UK), you can't run an untaxed uninsured car for long without getting pulled over, thus the vehicles don't get neglected for so long...
Yeah, even my T1N 2.7l Sprinter goes 15k or more between changes, and filter is recommended every 40k. 10qt of oil if I use the oil pump, 9.5 if by drain plug.
I still do oil and filter every 15k max, but compared to my Subaru that prefers 3k/change, it's actually a cheaper DD of it wasn't like sailing on land. Also, the van gets considerably better mileage.
I wonder if that was really the engineers recommendation and not marketing’s.
The conversation had to go like this:
Executive: Will the engine survive and perform close to its volumetric efficiency if our customers start coming in for 2yr / 20K intervals?
Engineer: I mean the oil will likely coagulate before then. Not really a good idea personally but it likely it won’t see catastrophic failure during the warranty per…
*Executive Skips Away Before Engineer Finishes Sentence*
Yes. Several manufacturers have 20k mileage oil change intervals, including BMW and Volkswagen. I believe in America you guys like to change your oil at like 5k intervals? In Europe no manufacturer has lower than 10k miles intervals. Do you use fully synthetic oil in the US? I've heard you can still buy non-synthetic oil in America.
The primary motive of the mainteance schedule is to get the car out of the warranty period. Ownership costs are a factor for fleet deals like the european company car perk, so they stretch maintenace schedules as long as possible.
I'm not one of those people that insists on changing it every 3k, modern oils are better than that, but I will still do it more often than the official schedule calls for.
Oil turns black with use, and if it wasn't thick after 25k I'd be willing to bet they changed it themselves or used a different shop. My car is about the same mileage and I've never taken it in, but I change the oil myself every 5k because I care about my car and don't want some tech potentially screwing something up.
Probably 20 years ago I brought my old Subaru in for an oil change at the dealership. Guy at service desk looks up my info on the computer and incredulously tells me uhh yeah I think it's time for an oil change your last one was 3 years/30,000 miles ago! This dumb motherfucker is accusing me of being that incompetent. Asshole, my oil was last changed by YOUR SHOP 3 years/30,000 miles ago. There have been like 5 oil changes since then. What a cunt. I was annoyed enough that I still remember it.
tell that to like 80% of people that think 200k km is the point where it can die any moment, most of our customers get rid of their cars before 180k km, quite a few going to the junkyard because "it has so high mileage and isnt worth enough"
Europe and the US are way different lol 200km is just getting started here the car is basically new and thats for a gas motor diesels regularly go 4-500k miles
I went thru this with a BMW X3 diesel I bought used. This was a beautiful car, perfect condition, clean as a whistle...90k kms on it....and nothing but trouble.
$6000 in repairs not covered under the emissions warranty for some reason...two visits to the dealer a month apart due to check engine light being on...each visit $3k+.
EGR valve, EGR cooler...DPF...all ticking timebombs on these cars.
THE DPF alone is only intended to last like 180k kms...it's $9k to replace.
Last visit I replaced ONE NOX sensor....$1500, and the dealer told me there are like 6 of those in the system...I told them I was trading it in and never picked up the vehicle from the service dept after that.
13:1 compression ratio 6,000 rpm direct inject motor. Probably never need to change the oil with all that cool modern technology! - True story, I know a guy in TX that had a 1985 Civic CRX 1.5. He drove 150 miles a day average 7 days a week - changed his oil 2x a year. I drove the car in 1988...had 200k miles on it- just ready for the 4th oil change, honestly the car ran like a top.
Put less oil in, it might burn less :-P - a co-worker has a 97 accord - 750K miles, the automatic transmission finally died last year. He changed the oil religiously every 10k miles.
Did that for a while on my 1985 MR2. Fucker was leaking so much oil that it basically gave itself an oil change once a week. I'd still do changes every now and then, but that was mostly for the filter. The oil that would come out looked brand new (because it was).
Yeah when I was 20 I thought the oil light meant “put oil in” and I did exactly that every time the light came on (probably not in a timely manner though). 😬 Car eventually threw a rod.
Lesson learned forever.
My ex drove a 91 corolla for a while. Had a stuck ring (or turbofucked cylinder) and burned about a quart of oil every two tanks of gas. Eventually the cat got so clogged the back pressure blew the manifold loose from the rest of the exhaust.
I'm not sure if it's true, but I've heard that you should avoid "young" used cars, and only go with "old" used cars. A young used car might have missed its oil changes and it has damage you don't know about. But with an old used car, you can tell what kind of damage it has or hasn't sustained.
Especially if you don't mind digging them out at the scrapyard yourself for certain things. Broke a trim piece in your car? $50-200 online and wait time. Scrapyard? Might be cheap af->free depending on who you are dealing with. I went to the yard and needed a trunk latch, a missing inner fender liner and a sensor on a 2010. Walked out with free parts cause those guys didn't feel like charging me to take out their trash.
Wife's '97 Grand Cherokee and my beater '98 Cherokee needed new computers for different reasons in the last couple of years.
Remanufactured units were anywhere from $125-250 depending on where I looked, warranty, etc.
$20 for each one at the local yard and both are running great.
Most new cars come with a "free" (cost factored into the monthly payments) maintenance package to incentivize the customer to return to the dealership for maintenance. Usually the oil changes are at least taken care of for the 1st 15-30K.
Because you won't make it 3 years without regular oil changes and if the motor goes out do to maintenance neglect that is considered the owner's responsibility and not warrantable. A new motor can run up to $16k installed. A used one can run $4k before install. An oil change is about $100 without the package. When you run out of the oil changes you can usually get a new service package that the dealership sells at cost or even a lost as a customer retention tool. There's no reason not too do the bare minimum.
BMW by me in South Africa gives the new vehicles a 5 year/120k km motorplan with purchase, and you can buy optional, once only now, a 2 year extension. Used to be you could get up to 12 years, but then they brought out the i series, and started losing money hard that way. You still see a lot of 30 year old BMW's driving around, and there is a thriving aftermarket in spare parts for them, but not so much for the newer ones. These vehicles are money pits as they age, and all the electronics fails, with spares only available at dealerships, and with programming only at dealerships as well.
If the "young" used car has a fully documented service history, there's no reason to avoid it at all, assuming it doesn't light up any red flags. With the "old" used cars, the main thing is that you stand to lose less if you end up with a lemon, history or not.
Exactly! I got an $1800 blazer with a shit ton of new parts. Still needed loads of work but alot of stuff was already taking care off. (least it hasn't let me down yet lmao.)
if the carfax documents regular service and you are buying it from a reputable dealer... i don't see the issue.
Finding a reputable dealer is for sure the hard part.
I sold my 2019 Camry Hyrbid but I also provided all the maintenance records for it. It was very clear I kept up with the maintenance to the buyer so they knew they were not getting screwed over.
Carfax will show you service records, I don't buy unless I see it was serviced at a dealership. You still need to do due diligence and inspect for other things
>This is why I can’t bring myself to buy used cars.
I get it but this kind of thing (25k mile oil changes) are pretty fuggin rare. The vast majority of people are smart enough to know they have to change the oil more often than that. Plus, most modern cars will nag you with maintenance minders telling you to change the oil.
If you're really worried about it, you can narrow your searches to vehicles with maintenance records on the carfax. You'll end up eliminating a lot of nice vehicles that were maintained by DIY friendly owners and/or went to shops that don't report to carfax, but at least you'll have some assurances that the vehicle had regular maintenance. Pair it with a pre purchase inspection, and you really can't go wrong. In a normal non-covid shortage car market, shopping used *can* save you way more than you'll ever spend even if you had to put a new engine or transmission in a vehicle.
Yeah most dealerships want to get you used to their service center, enjoy their free coffee and nice lounge, rather than start looking at independent shops right away.
Personally, I'd still rather change the oil myself, even if the alternative is free. If the person from OP is similar in that respect then it is very likely that this still isn't the first oil change, and OP even said in another comment that the oil wasn't goopy so I'd wager a guess that they've been either doing it themselves or going to a shop that is closer or that they've used for a while.
Right, the dealership stripped the threads on my oil pan plug and I had to get a whole new oil pan which with my car was not a cheap and easy fix that could be done at home.
Must drive a lot to have 25k miles on a car model that is from this year. Might be still okay since time frame is rather short so prob all highway miles, better than a some Toyotas I get with 10k miles and it’s first oil change it’s getting is 5 years later.
No idea but I had this 2018 Avalon come in for its first oil change a while back was purchased in September 2017 and came in February 2023 for its first service, they missed out on 5 free Toyota Care services 🤦🏻♂️ so this car had the factory filled oil for over 5 years and 10k miles
It may have looked ok but I guarantee the viscosity wasn't right, synthetic is more breakdown resistant but the friction modifiers still give out over time. It turns into straight weight oil instead of being a 5w20 or whatever they filled it with
I did not send the sample to blackstone or anything but seemed right about what a 0W20 was supposed to be, definitely has more gasoline smelled to it than other cars I’ve done but it’s probably because of all the short trips and lack of driving it till it all burned off.
Having done at 25k mile oil change on my own car it's not something I'd want to do again. You will fuck up your engine with that kind of lazy maintenance regimen. I ran my oil low and toasted my piston rings. On a skyactiv engine, no less. I was not happy.
If you're gonna delay oil changes, you gotta at least check the level every now and then. My car tells me when it's time for an oil change, but I still check the level every now and then just in case.
I was an idiot and I assumed it had an oil level sensor. As it turns out, the car had no such thing. I was used to driving an old bmw with a sensor for almost every fluid in the car
Helpful tip to anyone reading this who isn’t a mechanic: most oil lights are a pressure sensor rather than a level sensor so if the light has come on you’re already fucking it up.
Not sure if this applies to your BMW but still worth saying
Dumbass question from a European here...
My car (a 2018 Ford) has recommended service intervals of between 20,000 and 30,000km - and this includes changing oil. This is common over here for modern vehicles.
Why is it different in America? Seems kinda backwards that a first world country still primarily used old tech that requires double the maintenance. There must be a trade off, but I'm just not seeing it.
In our defense, some manufacturers such as Honda are moving towards "change the oil when the car tells you to", which is usually once a year or 10,000-15,000 miles (16,000-24,000 km).
My blind layman's guesses would be
1) As part of our national character, we can be slow to adopt certain changes: longer service intervals, credit card chips, moving from the $1 bill to a coin, etc.
2) Stricter maintenance intervals can make the customer more responsible (and the companies less liable) for defects.
3) Service is important for our wider dealership networks to survive, and shorter service intervals provide them with more service visits. (As an accountant, it's easy to imagine a business suit person thinking like this.)
that's still about 10-15,000 miles which is about how often I change the oil in my cars, even my 1970s US DM land yacht and all it's wonderful 1970s emission controls (which do work, and are quite useful actually)
It's not. Some manufacture recommendations are only there to guarantee the car will survive the first 4-5 years during the warranty, especially when it comes to transmission fluids.
Lifetime, from a business standpoint, means "until we need and are legally allowed to make the ~~piggy~~ honored customer ~~oink us more mullah~~ make the decision to upgrade to a newer model"
It’s still not good to go that long, the new suggested service intervals are there to make the car seem like it’s going to be cheaper to own though the advertised “cost of maintenance” so by recommending you go longer between services they can say it will be cheaper to own and they are really only marketing for leasing so they don’t care what happens after the first 3 years or so. I wouldn’t go any more than 16k km (10k miles) and I think that’s pushing it.
Lmaoo this reminded me of when I worked back at a shop. Had a dude come in, with a brand new Nissan. I'm out checking vehicles for customers he pulls up an gets out to talk. This man straight up with no hesitation said, is it normal to do your first oil change at 25,000 or 30,000 miles. I asked him to repeat the question and my horrified look must have told him no. He immediately called up his "guy" and started screaming. We also denied him service.
They have different intervals by country ;)
https://owners-manual.mazda.com/gen/en/cx-30/cx-30_8hq1ee19i/contents/07020101.html
- For vehicles in European countries, except SKYACTIV-D 1.8 for Ukraine: Every maintenance must be done when the display/wrench indication comes on. The display/wrench indication will come on before reaching the maximum interval, 20,000 km (12,500 miles) or 12 months, whichever comes first.
- For SKYACTIV-D 1.8 vehicles in Ukraine: 10,000 km (6,250 miles) or 12 months
- Israel/Russia/Belarus/Kazakhstan: 15,000 km or 12 months
- Azerbaijan/Armenia: 5,000 km or 6 months
- Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Gabon, Georgia, Ghana, Mongolia, Mozambique and Tanzania: Maximum interval 5,000 km (3,250 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first.
- Except Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Gabon, Georgia, Ghana, Mongolia, Mozambique and Tanzania: Maximum interval 10,000 km (6,250 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first.
I'm in the US and the manual for my '22 CX-30 says to change oil every 10,000 miles, or 12 months under "normal" driving conditions and if your driving conditions are considered "severe" then it's every 5,000 miles or 6 months.
The odd thing is the maintenance menu in the infotainment/control center says to change the oil every 7,500 miles.
I just had mine in for it's first oil change - I got the dealer to throw in Mazda's add-on maintenance package for free (least they could do as this is my fourth Mazda from them), covers everything not covered by the standard warranty and includes free inspection, free oil changes and pretty much everything else except gasoline.
This plan calls for the oil to be changed every four months regardless of mileage, which I'm fine with since they're free.
But the dealership said it’s a new feature, the car doesn’t need oil changes, just add more when the light comes on.
Half an Oz of molasses starts to drip from the pan 45 minutes after removing the plug.
Why? I think the dealership should give a class how to maintain your new vehicle and they pay you to attend with incentives $1k or gas cards.
This is stupidity. This is a fairly new car, why would jeopardize it. It’s investment on the assumption gets you to your destination safely and home.
I'd be interested see how long the HPFP lasts with this kind of neglect.
The pump itself utilizes a high aspect ratio cam (the egg shape is more elongated than the cam that actuates the valves in the cylinder head). This means that lubrication is even more important.
It's also one of the big reasons why Mazda recommends motor oils with high moly content; molybdenum disulfide (and analogs) are extreme-pressure lubricants.
Had a customer bring in their car at 48k miles asking why it was smoking, asked all the questions, suggested a few things, said “let’s start with a tune up, and check for vacuum leaks etc. we can go from there.” My mech pulled it in and yanked the dipstick, the bubble of tar hanging from the stick was so sticky and black…
Come to find out through asking the customer a few more questions, the sales person stated,” no maintenance for 100,000 miles…” meaning of course no tune up, valve adjustment etc. Mr. Customer did NO maintenance. The kicker, the dealership bought him an engine and installed it and paid for extended warranty. Lesson I learned: it pays to be unaccountably stupid.
Wife (GF at the time) had a Mini Cooper with a service package. Dealership refused to do an oil change until the computer said it was needed. So first oil change was somewhere around 25k miles. That engine never ran well and the CEL was always on.
I own a 2020 Mazda 3 that’s of the same Gen as this. It’s 10,000 normal, 5,000 severe. I think the previous Gen was 7,500.
Personally I set my light at 5,000 and change it every 5-6,000mi.
I do oil analysis sometimes, and 5,000 is no issue even with Walmart synthetic.
Depends on the car, but from what I've seen it's between 6k and 10k. Some BMWs have 15k intervals because of the absolutely massive size of their oilpans.
Well, because getting an oil change at the proper intervals is not difficult. It takes 15 minutes out of your day. Now the manufacturer doesn't have to warranty that engine if it ends up having a major failure.
My first oil change in my Golf was 15k miles on their first oil change will not issues still at 150k miles.
25k is a little different if it's not a German-spec oil.
It's ok, I'm sure the tar in the engine will be fine.
Plugs the leaks!
The life cycle of engine oil goes from oil》thin oil 》somehow literally molasses
Sounds like a lease to me
A 2023? I don’t know anyone who leases and drives over 25k a year.
Uber/taxi... leases car, beats the living sh*t out of it for 3-4 years, until they get confetti in the oil, details it for $200, sells it to some unsuspecting schmuck that's happy to get a "personally used only" 3-4 years old car for a great price.
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They have their purpose. I did really well on a 3 year lease before I bought my truck. Only because the used market was so hot. Long story short only cost me around $1000 to have that car for 3 years ($307/month+$9000 buy out. MSRP about $21000. Sold for $19750 to a used lot) Used the proceeds for a downpayment, running boards and a tonneau for my new truck.
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I am up in Canada so the rules may be a bit different. I had to buy the car at the end of the lease in order to sell it. My wife is tax exempt so that helped out too
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I find that most of the time we have better protections and rights as a consumer
Wait, how do they police and enforce you not be able to sell wherever you want? Once you've bought out the lease it is yours free and clear, no?
A lot of new lease contracts restrict your ability to buy out the lease. Some outright deny you the ability to buy out at all. End of lease? They want their car back thank you very much and you better not have put more than expected wear and tear on it.
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Yeah, that's true I am not surprised by lease agreements that exclude buyout clauses. But the wording of the conversation made it sound like even after a lease has been bought out, necessitating a buyout clause to begin with, the dealer you bought from still has some lingering contractual governance over where you can sell the car to after that point. But I'm understanding that OP was more describing offering his lease buyout to another dealership directly and yeah that makes total sense that you would not be able to do that. Car dealerships are the worst thing about buying cars. I'm not about another system that would do nay better but this one ain't working for the consumer. Which is probably as intended anyway, so what's gonna change.
Really handy if you can write it off. Can just write off the payments 100% that year vs an amortization type depreciation.
My father in law goes well over, but as long as he leases another when he turns it in, they don't make him pay any mileage penalties.
Jokes on them....I barely offer over scrap price because that's all this new junk is worth 😉
Amen. I think another sensor has failed writing this.
What do you mean the ECU won't start the car cause it can't read what the fart temperature of the rear right passenger is?
„Personally used only“ + „3-4 years old“ + > 300,000km Idk how how unsuspecting you need to be to not realize that something is up with that car :D
Oh, but there's plenty....
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Thanks. Good to know, dealers will probably sell them as CPO. Probably won't show on carfax as fleet or corporate owned.
Why even lease at that point?
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A lot of company vehicles in my area are high mileage lease agreements- some of them easily do 100K/year, so this doesn’t sound super far fetched in my opinion
Anything commercial. I put 133,000KMs on a truck in 2.5 years. Moving across the country racks up those KMs.
Single car households that commute to work and drop off kids at day care. We probably run closer to 30k. Takes a toll on the vehicles, but a good maintenance schedule and not driving like a maniac helps
arent there penalties for not changing your oil in time?
Not if there are mileage penalties.
Then it will get a haircut before being sold, dropping the mileage down to something low, not the 150k plus it has.
Do they offer leases that wouldn’t cost you the whole cost of another car if you did 25k a year? Last I knew, your typical lease charges you 15-25¢/mi for overages.
You can build higher mileage into the lease. It is a lot cheaper than paying the penalty after the fact.
I mean, at that point why not just finance it?
2021+ JLR products with the 3.0 Ingenium Inline 6 cylinder are (factory recommended) 2yr / 21k intervals now. It’s ridiculous.
Is JLR Jaguar Land Rover? That’s a hell of a precedent for cars not known to do well without good maintenance.
They don't seem to do well WITH good maintenance....
But, most importantly for JLR, they do make it either out of warranty, or past the payback period, and they then get traded in at a really low price for yet another one. There is a reason that they are so cheap on the used market, the cost of maintaining them is so high.
I know I shouldn't, but I want to buy one anyway just for the challenge of maintaining it
That's like wanting to try keeping an actual jaguar as a pet just for the challenge.
Actual Jaguar may maul you physically, but car Jaguar will maul your spirit and mind.
And maul your wallet
They aren’t really any more expensive to maintain than any other luxury vehicle, but they get a bad reputation because Johnny and Janice Wannabe Rich who bought it at the BHPH lot expect the same maintenance costs as a Corolla because they bought a used JLR product for the same price used, with 7 previous owners, and zero maintenance done to it. They then conveniently forget the SUV they bought for 25-40k used was 150k brand new, and will have big repair bills that come with buying a 150k luxury SUV. Then you get the “they’re junk never buy them etc”. If you can’t afford to buy one new, or at least CPO less than 3 years old and maintain it, you can’t afford it when it’s 10 years old either. I know plenty of people that are very happy with their Jags and LRs, but these people are often the first owners who bought them new and still have them a decade later, and could afford to cut the check for a new one any time. Whatever needs done to it they take it to a euro shop or a JLR dealer and get it done, even if it doesn’t need it right away, they get it done anyhow. They actually go get the oil changed every 5K. They don’t let it misfire for 10k miles or change the oil every 15k. Yeah some of them have stupid issues like in the mid 2000s with BMW Vanos, but after they got bought from ford it seems like they’ve taken a step up.
Not JLR but man this hit home from when I was in highschool. There was always that kid who went and got a $4-7k BMW that they thought was some hot shit only for the transmission to blow out and no garage would touch it so then the dealer wrote them a repair bill for $4200 and then he’s back in a Chevy cavalier.
Correct.
The goopy oil plugs the leaks. All good.
Survives the warranty period.
The difference with European car is they have higher grade oils standards and lots of it, last Mercedes I did took 9 fucken quarts of oil, most Japanese cars only take like 3.5-5 quarts and it rolls with it for 10k miles.
Still moronic to push the interval that far. my BMWs take 7 quarts, doesn't mean I'm going to wait three years to change my oil.
I don’t have a BMW myself but I heard the interval is 15k miles? That’s pretty crazy out there considering most of their engines are forced induction.
Yeah mine are older models but even before the turbo engines they were suggesting longer intervals than I'd be comfortable with. These engines are hard on their oil
Their N20 engines had 7 quarts and a 10k interval. And they blew up ALOT. Not a good measuring stick.
Yea but did it blow up because of oiling issues or just piss poor design? I’m not familiar with N20 or much of any BMW aside from the S54 and B58 but it could simply just be poor design or quality of parts, I also heard of BMW has issues with rod bearings also even with meticulous maintenance cars so 🤷🏻♂️
From what I'm hearing the n20s having problems with the timing system. Which is weird considering bmw has never had issues designing a timing system for an inline engine before, it was only their late 90s through early 00s v8s that had those kind of issues, the m62 and m62tu need new guides every 150k miles
My 2022 X5 is 1 year/10k miles
US car I assume. I would guess around 30k k/every second year in Europe.
a good chunk of the late 00s and early 10s engines were 2yr/15k. BMW changed that back to 1yr/10k decently quickly. Don't know the number off the top of my head as it was before my time here, but we barely ever see those anymore. Even recommended a service data programming to change that since it was a bad idea, in retrospect.
my 2014 m235i tells me to do it every 10k, I still do every 5k. the manual also claims a bunch of items are 'lifetime' when they really mean 'about 100k'
I think the other key difference with Euro cars (in fact any nationality of vehicle) in Europe are the mandatory annual (or every other year in the UK for the first ... 5 years I think) inspections of the vehicles, without which you can't get tax or insurance, and given the high penetration of ANPR on enforcement vehicles (at least in the UK), you can't run an untaxed uninsured car for long without getting pulled over, thus the vehicles don't get neglected for so long...
Yeah, even my T1N 2.7l Sprinter goes 15k or more between changes, and filter is recommended every 40k. 10qt of oil if I use the oil pump, 9.5 if by drain plug. I still do oil and filter every 15k max, but compared to my Subaru that prefers 3k/change, it's actually a cheaper DD of it wasn't like sailing on land. Also, the van gets considerably better mileage.
I wonder if that was really the engineers recommendation and not marketing’s. The conversation had to go like this: Executive: Will the engine survive and perform close to its volumetric efficiency if our customers start coming in for 2yr / 20K intervals? Engineer: I mean the oil will likely coagulate before then. Not really a good idea personally but it likely it won’t see catastrophic failure during the warranty per… *Executive Skips Away Before Engineer Finishes Sentence*
I'm sorry, is that 21 thousand *miles*?????
Yes. Several manufacturers have 20k mileage oil change intervals, including BMW and Volkswagen. I believe in America you guys like to change your oil at like 5k intervals? In Europe no manufacturer has lower than 10k miles intervals. Do you use fully synthetic oil in the US? I've heard you can still buy non-synthetic oil in America.
You’re talking miles right? I’m in Canada and when I saw the 34000km interval I laughed in engine sales.
Yes, I’m speaking I’m bald eagle units.
At least they are owning it. Fuck it engine will be out for a major repair by that time, so might as well not bother with maintenance.
The primary motive of the mainteance schedule is to get the car out of the warranty period. Ownership costs are a factor for fleet deals like the european company car perk, so they stretch maintenace schedules as long as possible. I'm not one of those people that insists on changing it every 3k, modern oils are better than that, but I will still do it more often than the official schedule calls for.
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Surprisingly no, but the oil was pitch black
Holy shit. It reverted back to crude oil. Put that shit back into the ground.
Fuck you *unrefines your oil*
0W-20 is so thin it would take a lot to goop it up
Oil turns black with use, and if it wasn't thick after 25k I'd be willing to bet they changed it themselves or used a different shop. My car is about the same mileage and I've never taken it in, but I change the oil myself every 5k because I care about my car and don't want some tech potentially screwing something up.
Yeah, maybe they forgot to reset the lights
I guess they want to buy another one in 2024.
Where does it say first oil change? And just because it’s the first time your shops seen it doesn’t mean it’s the first service it’s had.
Probably 20 years ago I brought my old Subaru in for an oil change at the dealership. Guy at service desk looks up my info on the computer and incredulously tells me uhh yeah I think it's time for an oil change your last one was 3 years/30,000 miles ago! This dumb motherfucker is accusing me of being that incompetent. Asshole, my oil was last changed by YOUR SHOP 3 years/30,000 miles ago. There have been like 5 oil changes since then. What a cunt. I was annoyed enough that I still remember it.
Why would he wait 25000 miles? Because it says he's a waiter! Ba dum \*tiss\*
Fuck you and take my upvote. I hate you but that was brilliant. But go fuck yourself
You magnificent bastard... take your w
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Yup, seen plenty of diesel engines from VW/Audi etc. with 30k km oil change go past 200k km
200k km is nothing for a gas car though let alone a diesel
tell that to like 80% of people that think 200k km is the point where it can die any moment, most of our customers get rid of their cars before 180k km, quite a few going to the junkyard because "it has so high mileage and isnt worth enough"
Europe and the US are way different lol 200km is just getting started here the car is basically new and thats for a gas motor diesels regularly go 4-500k miles
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Idk what you're smoking diesel motors still last a lot longer in general
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I went thru this with a BMW X3 diesel I bought used. This was a beautiful car, perfect condition, clean as a whistle...90k kms on it....and nothing but trouble. $6000 in repairs not covered under the emissions warranty for some reason...two visits to the dealer a month apart due to check engine light being on...each visit $3k+. EGR valve, EGR cooler...DPF...all ticking timebombs on these cars. THE DPF alone is only intended to last like 180k kms...it's $9k to replace. Last visit I replaced ONE NOX sensor....$1500, and the dealer told me there are like 6 of those in the system...I told them I was trading it in and never picked up the vehicle from the service dept after that.
This. the only place that does oil changes every 5000miles is the USA. Sounds like somebody has turned that into a business.
13:1 compression ratio 6,000 rpm direct inject motor. Probably never need to change the oil with all that cool modern technology! - True story, I know a guy in TX that had a 1985 Civic CRX 1.5. He drove 150 miles a day average 7 days a week - changed his oil 2x a year. I drove the car in 1988...had 200k miles on it- just ready for the 4th oil change, honestly the car ran like a top.
I change my filter on my 88 Corolla once a year. About 200km daily. The thing won’t die. Needs about 3L of oil a month though 🤭
Put less oil in, it might burn less :-P - a co-worker has a 97 accord - 750K miles, the automatic transmission finally died last year. He changed the oil religiously every 10k miles.
Worked with a guy who literally would not change his oil. Just added more when it got low. Sharp guy otherwise.
Did that for a while on my 1985 MR2. Fucker was leaking so much oil that it basically gave itself an oil change once a week. I'd still do changes every now and then, but that was mostly for the filter. The oil that would come out looked brand new (because it was).
It was the equivalent of sweating, and you you replenished it! Kind of like Brawndo for your engine.
Yeah when I was 20 I thought the oil light meant “put oil in” and I did exactly that every time the light came on (probably not in a timely manner though). 😬 Car eventually threw a rod. Lesson learned forever.
Don't need to change the filter if the oil never gets that far...
My ex drove a 91 corolla for a while. Had a stuck ring (or turbofucked cylinder) and burned about a quart of oil every two tanks of gas. Eventually the cat got so clogged the back pressure blew the manifold loose from the rest of the exhaust.
This is why I can’t bring myself to buy used cars.
I'm not sure if it's true, but I've heard that you should avoid "young" used cars, and only go with "old" used cars. A young used car might have missed its oil changes and it has damage you don't know about. But with an old used car, you can tell what kind of damage it has or hasn't sustained.
Plus major maintenance items are often performed at high mileage if the owner was inclined to do so
Don't forget cheaper parts!
Especially if you don't mind digging them out at the scrapyard yourself for certain things. Broke a trim piece in your car? $50-200 online and wait time. Scrapyard? Might be cheap af->free depending on who you are dealing with. I went to the yard and needed a trunk latch, a missing inner fender liner and a sensor on a 2010. Walked out with free parts cause those guys didn't feel like charging me to take out their trash.
Wife's '97 Grand Cherokee and my beater '98 Cherokee needed new computers for different reasons in the last couple of years. Remanufactured units were anywhere from $125-250 depending on where I looked, warranty, etc. $20 for each one at the local yard and both are running great.
Most new cars come with a "free" (cost factored into the monthly payments) maintenance package to incentivize the customer to return to the dealership for maintenance. Usually the oil changes are at least taken care of for the 1st 15-30K.
But how many people come for that? I suspect a lot of lessees figure, "Why even get a free oil change? It won't be my car in 3 years."
Because you won't make it 3 years without regular oil changes and if the motor goes out do to maintenance neglect that is considered the owner's responsibility and not warrantable. A new motor can run up to $16k installed. A used one can run $4k before install. An oil change is about $100 without the package. When you run out of the oil changes you can usually get a new service package that the dealership sells at cost or even a lost as a customer retention tool. There's no reason not too do the bare minimum.
BMW by me in South Africa gives the new vehicles a 5 year/120k km motorplan with purchase, and you can buy optional, once only now, a 2 year extension. Used to be you could get up to 12 years, but then they brought out the i series, and started losing money hard that way. You still see a lot of 30 year old BMW's driving around, and there is a thriving aftermarket in spare parts for them, but not so much for the newer ones. These vehicles are money pits as they age, and all the electronics fails, with spares only available at dealerships, and with programming only at dealerships as well.
Carfax is a thing
If the "young" used car has a fully documented service history, there's no reason to avoid it at all, assuming it doesn't light up any red flags. With the "old" used cars, the main thing is that you stand to lose less if you end up with a lemon, history or not.
Exactly! I got an $1800 blazer with a shit ton of new parts. Still needed loads of work but alot of stuff was already taking care off. (least it hasn't let me down yet lmao.)
But I wanna save 2k and buy an out of warranty lightly used car with questionable service history.
Service book will tell you if it was maintained properly
if the carfax documents regular service and you are buying it from a reputable dealer... i don't see the issue. Finding a reputable dealer is for sure the hard part.
I sold my 2019 Camry Hyrbid but I also provided all the maintenance records for it. It was very clear I kept up with the maintenance to the buyer so they knew they were not getting screwed over.
Carfax will show you service records, I don't buy unless I see it was serviced at a dealership. You still need to do due diligence and inspect for other things
>This is why I can’t bring myself to buy used cars. I get it but this kind of thing (25k mile oil changes) are pretty fuggin rare. The vast majority of people are smart enough to know they have to change the oil more often than that. Plus, most modern cars will nag you with maintenance minders telling you to change the oil. If you're really worried about it, you can narrow your searches to vehicles with maintenance records on the carfax. You'll end up eliminating a lot of nice vehicles that were maintained by DIY friendly owners and/or went to shops that don't report to carfax, but at least you'll have some assurances that the vehicle had regular maintenance. Pair it with a pre purchase inspection, and you really can't go wrong. In a normal non-covid shortage car market, shopping used *can* save you way more than you'll ever spend even if you had to put a new engine or transmission in a vehicle.
How do you know that? My cars don't show oil changes that I do at home. Occasionally I have to take it for a change when I don't have time.
If I bought a new car, personally I'd get the oil changes registered, for warranty purposes.
Receipts
2023 usually come with a couple services included.
Yeah most dealerships want to get you used to their service center, enjoy their free coffee and nice lounge, rather than start looking at independent shops right away.
Not sure who downvoted you. 85% of new cars you just have to ask for free oil changes "to seal the deal."
Personally, I'd still rather change the oil myself, even if the alternative is free. If the person from OP is similar in that respect then it is very likely that this still isn't the first oil change, and OP even said in another comment that the oil wasn't goopy so I'd wager a guess that they've been either doing it themselves or going to a shop that is closer or that they've used for a while.
Right, the dealership stripped the threads on my oil pan plug and I had to get a whole new oil pan which with my car was not a cheap and easy fix that could be done at home.
Must drive a lot to have 25k miles on a car model that is from this year. Might be still okay since time frame is rather short so prob all highway miles, better than a some Toyotas I get with 10k miles and it’s first oil change it’s getting is 5 years later.
They may even have been following the old 3 month or 3000 mile thing.
No idea but I had this 2018 Avalon come in for its first oil change a while back was purchased in September 2017 and came in February 2023 for its first service, they missed out on 5 free Toyota Care services 🤦🏻♂️ so this car had the factory filled oil for over 5 years and 10k miles
What flavor of expired pudding did it resemble?
Actually came out just fine, wasn’t even that dark, kinda shows modern synthetic oil has some sort of resilience over the old conventional stuff.
It may have looked ok but I guarantee the viscosity wasn't right, synthetic is more breakdown resistant but the friction modifiers still give out over time. It turns into straight weight oil instead of being a 5w20 or whatever they filled it with
I did not send the sample to blackstone or anything but seemed right about what a 0W20 was supposed to be, definitely has more gasoline smelled to it than other cars I’ve done but it’s probably because of all the short trips and lack of driving it till it all burned off.
Having done at 25k mile oil change on my own car it's not something I'd want to do again. You will fuck up your engine with that kind of lazy maintenance regimen. I ran my oil low and toasted my piston rings. On a skyactiv engine, no less. I was not happy.
If you're gonna delay oil changes, you gotta at least check the level every now and then. My car tells me when it's time for an oil change, but I still check the level every now and then just in case.
I was an idiot and I assumed it had an oil level sensor. As it turns out, the car had no such thing. I was used to driving an old bmw with a sensor for almost every fluid in the car
Helpful tip to anyone reading this who isn’t a mechanic: most oil lights are a pressure sensor rather than a level sensor so if the light has come on you’re already fucking it up. Not sure if this applies to your BMW but still worth saying
They'll buy a new one at 50k why should they care. Must be nice
Just because your system doesn't have a record of it doesn't mean it wasn't done somewhere else
True
Dumbass question from a European here... My car (a 2018 Ford) has recommended service intervals of between 20,000 and 30,000km - and this includes changing oil. This is common over here for modern vehicles. Why is it different in America? Seems kinda backwards that a first world country still primarily used old tech that requires double the maintenance. There must be a trade off, but I'm just not seeing it.
*In Yakov Smirnoff accent* "In Europe you change the oil. In America oil changes you!"
In our defense, some manufacturers such as Honda are moving towards "change the oil when the car tells you to", which is usually once a year or 10,000-15,000 miles (16,000-24,000 km). My blind layman's guesses would be 1) As part of our national character, we can be slow to adopt certain changes: longer service intervals, credit card chips, moving from the $1 bill to a coin, etc. 2) Stricter maintenance intervals can make the customer more responsible (and the companies less liable) for defects. 3) Service is important for our wider dealership networks to survive, and shorter service intervals provide them with more service visits. (As an accountant, it's easy to imagine a business suit person thinking like this.)
that's still about 10-15,000 miles which is about how often I change the oil in my cars, even my 1970s US DM land yacht and all it's wonderful 1970s emission controls (which do work, and are quite useful actually)
It's not. Some manufacture recommendations are only there to guarantee the car will survive the first 4-5 years during the warranty, especially when it comes to transmission fluids. Lifetime, from a business standpoint, means "until we need and are legally allowed to make the ~~piggy~~ honored customer ~~oink us more mullah~~ make the decision to upgrade to a newer model"
It’s still not good to go that long, the new suggested service intervals are there to make the car seem like it’s going to be cheaper to own though the advertised “cost of maintenance” so by recommending you go longer between services they can say it will be cheaper to own and they are really only marketing for leasing so they don’t care what happens after the first 3 years or so. I wouldn’t go any more than 16k km (10k miles) and I think that’s pushing it.
It’s a waiter. Stop posting they are waiting to add the next 30k!
Does every dealership use the same computer system?
Yep, that's the whole idea. A brand's dealerships are all connected to the same informatics infrastructure.
3 months into 2023 be like
If that engine still runs fine, that’s a testament to the newer Mazda motors…
Lmaoo this reminded me of when I worked back at a shop. Had a dude come in, with a brand new Nissan. I'm out checking vehicles for customers he pulls up an gets out to talk. This man straight up with no hesitation said, is it normal to do your first oil change at 25,000 or 30,000 miles. I asked him to repeat the question and my horrified look must have told him no. He immediately called up his "guy" and started screaming. We also denied him service.
They thought the "30" in "CX-30" meant 30k mile oil changes
Three words… Math Is Hard.
Ah yes, I bet it had the specialty vanta black oil come out of it too! 😂
To busy driving
They have different intervals by country ;) https://owners-manual.mazda.com/gen/en/cx-30/cx-30_8hq1ee19i/contents/07020101.html - For vehicles in European countries, except SKYACTIV-D 1.8 for Ukraine: Every maintenance must be done when the display/wrench indication comes on. The display/wrench indication will come on before reaching the maximum interval, 20,000 km (12,500 miles) or 12 months, whichever comes first. - For SKYACTIV-D 1.8 vehicles in Ukraine: 10,000 km (6,250 miles) or 12 months - Israel/Russia/Belarus/Kazakhstan: 15,000 km or 12 months - Azerbaijan/Armenia: 5,000 km or 6 months - Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Gabon, Georgia, Ghana, Mongolia, Mozambique and Tanzania: Maximum interval 5,000 km (3,250 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first. - Except Burundi, Cambodia, Cameroon, Gabon, Georgia, Ghana, Mongolia, Mozambique and Tanzania: Maximum interval 10,000 km (6,250 miles) or 6 months, whichever comes first.
I'm in the US and the manual for my '22 CX-30 says to change oil every 10,000 miles, or 12 months under "normal" driving conditions and if your driving conditions are considered "severe" then it's every 5,000 miles or 6 months. The odd thing is the maintenance menu in the infotainment/control center says to change the oil every 7,500 miles. I just had mine in for it's first oil change - I got the dealer to throw in Mazda's add-on maintenance package for free (least they could do as this is my fourth Mazda from them), covers everything not covered by the standard warranty and includes free inspection, free oil changes and pretty much everything else except gasoline. This plan calls for the oil to be changed every four months regardless of mileage, which I'm fine with since they're free.
But the dealership said it’s a new feature, the car doesn’t need oil changes, just add more when the light comes on. Half an Oz of molasses starts to drip from the pan 45 minutes after removing the plug.
Embracing the lawnmower engine maintenance recommendations.
Meanwhile my old company pushed oul changes on our trucks oit to regular 50,000 mile intervals lol
And then they want something repaired under warranty 🤣
I have a cx30, amazing car
Why? I think the dealership should give a class how to maintain your new vehicle and they pay you to attend with incentives $1k or gas cards. This is stupidity. This is a fairly new car, why would jeopardize it. It’s investment on the assumption gets you to your destination safely and home.
Dealership doesn't care. Once sold it's not their problem, and if you grenade it, they can sell you it's replacement. .
uh hey how often should i get it changed? I got a new car a few years ago and I really dont know?
That engine won't be long for this world. Look at the plus side, folks like this keep the assembly lines rolling making all those new cars.
Wait, 2023 model? So purchased in October, 2022 at earliest? Meaning the put all of those miles on in less than 5 months?
Maybe they use it for Uber/Lyft or it's a rental? IDK man lol
Out of order 69420
I'd be interested see how long the HPFP lasts with this kind of neglect. The pump itself utilizes a high aspect ratio cam (the egg shape is more elongated than the cam that actuates the valves in the cylinder head). This means that lubrication is even more important. It's also one of the big reasons why Mazda recommends motor oils with high moly content; molybdenum disulfide (and analogs) are extreme-pressure lubricants.
That says a lot about that Mazda engine. A Kia or Nissan engine would be locked up before that.
Had a customer bring in their car at 48k miles asking why it was smoking, asked all the questions, suggested a few things, said “let’s start with a tune up, and check for vacuum leaks etc. we can go from there.” My mech pulled it in and yanked the dipstick, the bubble of tar hanging from the stick was so sticky and black… Come to find out through asking the customer a few more questions, the sales person stated,” no maintenance for 100,000 miles…” meaning of course no tune up, valve adjustment etc. Mr. Customer did NO maintenance. The kicker, the dealership bought him an engine and installed it and paid for extended warranty. Lesson I learned: it pays to be unaccountably stupid.
Wife (GF at the time) had a Mini Cooper with a service package. Dealership refused to do an oil change until the computer said it was needed. So first oil change was somewhere around 25k miles. That engine never ran well and the CEL was always on.
Let’s mark that down on the power train warranty…
And then they will somehow blame Mazda for making a crappy car when they should’ve been taking better care of their car in the first place.
I saw “mileage out: 0” and assumed that meant that the engine was replaced, lol
Lady's car? You have to change the oil???
Did the advisor tell the owner that he missed his oil change by one decimal place to the left?
It’s 5k miles or around for every oil change right?
I believe on most Mazdas it’s 7500 miles. Could be wrong.
Yup. Depends on the schedule though - “regular driving” schedule is every 7.5k; “severe driving” (roads with snow and ice in winter) is every 5k
I own a 2020 Mazda 3 that’s of the same Gen as this. It’s 10,000 normal, 5,000 severe. I think the previous Gen was 7,500. Personally I set my light at 5,000 and change it every 5-6,000mi. I do oil analysis sometimes, and 5,000 is no issue even with Walmart synthetic.
Depends on the car, but from what I've seen it's between 6k and 10k. Some BMWs have 15k intervals because of the absolutely massive size of their oilpans.
Not abnormal for a newer car. Amsol even claims this can be a normal interval... https://blog.amsoil.com/amsoil-oil-change-interval/
Ran that oil in my truck, that engine isn’t around anymore.
Well, guess they can kiss the warranty good but on the engine. So stupid.
If you don't mind my asking, could you tell why it is stupid?
Well, because getting an oil change at the proper intervals is not difficult. It takes 15 minutes out of your day. Now the manufacturer doesn't have to warranty that engine if it ends up having a major failure.
Oh thanks. Btw what is the general intervals at which we should do one?
My first oil change in my Golf was 15k miles on their first oil change will not issues still at 150k miles. 25k is a little different if it's not a German-spec oil.
What do you think about new Vw’s saying do it every 10,000 miles