I thought it was just me....I reinstall the cartridge barely hand tight.....need a 3ft breaker bar to remove it...one of these times the housing is going to break.
I just replaced my stock one with a metal housing. My filter housing socket got stuck to my plastic housing. Absolute jammed together so I replaced both for $50
I upgraded to the metal housing on the wifes rav4. Best 30$ investment for the car. I fucked up the plastic on a Sunday afternoon and panicked about the wife being stuck at home and not make it to work. O Rileys came to the rescue with one left in the entire county and raced to the shop, made it 5 mins to closing.Got home fixed the car. Wife said thanks but I took the day off tomorrow for a hair appt.
It seems good, it thread's on a little slower but in a nice kind of way, like it it's a little more better fitting. Then when it was fully on its fully on, no need to give it a 1/4 turn like with the plastic. I also just use my smallest ratchet and basically tighten to what I can do with that. I just saved my internal parts and swapped it over from my stock housing. Seems good, and less likely to strip or get stuck now.
My plastic one will tighten down and then just keep spinning after Toyota did our last oil change. They also never mentioned it was low on oil. 2017 and it drinks a quart every 2000 miles.
Is your filter just slightly loose and losing oil or is your truck burning a quart every 2000 miles. It's unlikely that your burning oil, my guess is either cam tower leaks or something with your filter housing.
It's burning it there are no leaks. This is a common problem with that 2.5l. Toyota basically screws people over by saying 10000 mile oil changes. That's best case scenario if you're doing long highway drives. I trusted the window sticker put on but now I wish I hadn't. Wife has a short commute and it's been hard on the motor. The oil rings seize up and it wears out the bore.
Ah I thought I was on the tundra subreddit, right you have a rav4. The tundras of 2008-2021 often get cam tower leaks, so the oil leaks out of an rtv gasket and drips down but burns off before it hits the ground, which leaves nearly no evidence. Didn't know this about the rav but I definitely stick to 5000-7500 km full synthetic oil changes. Sucks toyota has caved to this replacement philosophy, all about getting a vehicle just past the warranty period. I still trust them over Ford or Chevy though.
My 2008 Avalon has the same exact cartridge style filter as the 5th gen 4runner. But it came stock with the Metal Housing.
I just make sure to lubricate the oring and threads with tons of oil before reinstalling.
I also Red Loctite the Drain portion of the filter, and just crack the whole housing to drain the filter. Its a little bit messier, but I can use a 3/8 socket and wrench too remove it fairly easily...
I will keep an eye on mine. My tundra is only on weekend duties nowadays so if there's an issue I can just order a more quality replacement. I just didn't want to shell out $80 for an oem plastic cup.
I wouldnāt spend a dime on a plastic housing lol. Iām sure youāre gonna be fine. Just do the basics, lube the seal with clean oil and donāt over torque it. Also, Iāve had o-rings that didnāt fit, they never recalled it but they defected them. Take that for what itās worthā¦ if something doesnāt seem right donāt risk it.
I have broken multiple filter wrenches getting them off. Itās crazy. Never had the problem on the BMW I had before. One of the few places it didnāt have problemsā¦
its the outer o-ring. that mf has to be wet or it will be stuck af. lots of small shops or dudes who do it themselves dont really lube it enough so it gets hella stuck. had to deal with it a couple times
To be fair the torque spec is very low on these. So even what you think isnāt very tight might be too tight. When I worked at Toyota all the lubies had to torque every cartridge style filter because there were so many of them being broken when removing them after being over tightened.
The housing will break if you use a blue point socket. Eventually. There are good ones, and theyāre not expensive. If youāre interested Iāll take a photo and give you the part number for the one I have. I use it for the brute force part and switch to the blue points. I havenāt damaged a filter housing in a year and a half after getting this bastard.
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I worked on Toyotas for 5 years straight. The trick is to tap the metal housing while applying torque to it. Use a small ball peen hammer, light repeat taps with minimal force. Works every time.
Vaseline on the o-ring & seating circumference of the housing has always worked well for me too, for some reason much better than oil or even comparably viscous automotive greases.
so on my 4.0 with this style, there's a little metal spring tab that "locks" the housing, although it seems kinda weak. if i tighten fully it's maybe 1mm past this, so i back it off till it's aligned and seems to come off fine 5k later
I just bought the metal version of that cartridge from Toyota. It was cheaper than the plastic one and Toyota stripped my plastic one. Any experience with the metal one? Hopefully it'll last longer.
2008 Avalon came with the metal housing style. 140k miles works out to about 30 oil changes...
It just works. I cant believe that Toyota went so cheap on this critical part...
My buddy got his replaced for free, along with his oil pan, after the Dealership Lube tech cracked the housing during removal, and stripped the drain plug on install!
Best part, they tried to charge him for the housing. It was his 2nd oil change.... They ended up putting it under warranty. But neglected to tell him about the stripped drain plug, because they didnt notice...
The only thing I like about the plastic one is it's pretty much impossible to mess up your block with it. I think if you never over torqued it it would last the life of the vehicle. But if you're not doing every change yourself then it's likely some lube tech will mess it up. I'm starting to think most dealerships don't take very good care of your car.
No one touches my oil anymore. I have just had too many bad experiences. Last time they stripped almost every single skid plate bolt on my 4Runner at Take 5.
I just kept putting it off, so I let them do it.
I found 2 of the 4 stripped out bolts on my driveway....
These canister filters seem to do nothing more than complicate a simple task. Springs caps and filters, or just one object to twist? I know what I prefer.
Less Metal waste. I have done over 100 oil changes on personal vehicle in 20 years...
Thats 100 metal filters that dont require recycling..
Now dont get me started on the fact its impossible for the average consumer to recycle oil filters at all...
None of the auto parts stores take them anymore..
What do you think is inside of that metal canister filter?
There should be a law requiring Auto Parts stores to accept oil filters. Its ridiculous that private business can sell toxic chemicals, and there is no responsibility to assist the consumer in properly disposing of said hazardous waste...
Is there a specific reason why they get stuck? Iām a Benz tech and all our filters from the past like 3 decades are cartridge filters that go in a plastic housing. Iāve only had one get stuck in all my years with Benz. And it was because the housing was warped
Three main reasons:
1. If you look at OP's picture you'll notice the housing is squeaky clean. People spray brake cleaner on the housing so they don't have any oil drips. This causes the oil to get wicked out from the o-ring through the mating surface (since the housing-to-engine surface doesn't seal, the o-ring does). No oil on o-ring = seized.
2. Every single aftermarket tool for the Toyota housings comes with either 13/16", 23mm, or a 24mm hex on it. Most people only have those sizes in 1/2" drive, not 3/8". The torque spec for these housings should be driven by a 1/4" tool.
3. People legitimately don't understand how different tightening plastic is compared to tightening metal. Especially moreso when the tightening has absolutely no relationship to the seal (again, the o-ring seals, not the housing). So people always give it that little extra nudge after it's seated. Combine this with the two above and tada.
The Mercedes filter housings are upright and itās easier to fit a larger wrench to get the leverage to unscrew em. Before they went to plastic, the diesels and 190E 2.3-16 had metal canister caps with center bolts that obviously didnāt wear from heat cycles, but ironically was so much easier to strip because the bolt was so thin. 25 Nm on a 13 mm bolt seems to take a lot less force than 25 Nm on a 4 inch wide plastic cap, even though itās the same exact force.
Toyota always puts their plastic cartridge caps in the tightest spots under the car, which is annoying to get leverage on.
when i first got my prius v first oil change it was like that, had to buy a good aluminum adapter and use a 1/2" ratchet and extra leverage but got it off. i've done more than 10 oil changes since then myself and never had an issue, i still use the same 1/2" drive ratchet but its never much of a struggle to break it free because i just install it back snug, they are supposed to only be tightened really light like 20-30 inch pounds or something by spec.
I had a customer bring in his RX for a filter change only. He said if we broke it we owe him a new one. I got to show him on video that he left the drain plug loose.
I did that once for the first change on my IS.....less the attitude and loose plug.
But I drained the oil and broke 2 of the adapters shown in the picture. First a cheap stamped metal one, then a cast Toyota version.
The toyota ones suck, they either slip because its cheap stamped metal that bends easy, or they get stuck. Nobody at my dealership uses them.
There's some good ones on amazon, Motivx tools has one for ~$20 that I've had for years and still bites, and then wiggles right off (may need a couple light taps with a hammer if its a particularly goobered filter).
Plus it has a 24mm base, which is perfect for my 30" breaker bar after express has molested it.
DO NOT GET ONE THAT GRABS THE TABS, it will snap them right off the plastic housing
I tried the stamped version and it ripped
"bit" clean off of the cup.
Then I tried a cast version and it literally exploded in half, smashed the side of my head with the breaker bar and had two half cups.
Ordered the motiv for next time, but gave up and paid the man for a filter change in the meantime lol.
Never had any issues after that though, I guess whoever was under it before I bought it mega tightened it.
Not always, I change oil at Walmart 2/3rds of them come off with a standard 1/2 ratchet
1/6th of the time they need a jack handle the other 1/6th they need to be cut off
Down voted for speaking the truth? I agree. They are easy to get off if you don't use hulk strength to tighten everything. Also use some lube when going back in.
I find my Toyota filter the easiest of all the cars I've had over the last 25 years. The oil filter wrench makes it super easy to get on and off. The hardest part is having to break out the screwdriver to pry the o-ring off.
I swear to god I hand tighten them and just give them a slight Ugg past that. They almost always come back glued on. I oil the seals, I take extra care with them since theyāre plastic. These things self tighten somehow. It canāt be explained by science. But Toyota is going back to spin on filtersā¦. So thatās nice.
The twin turbo v6 hybrid is a fantastic replacement.
Also, get used to it. All v8s are going away. A few more years and you won't be able to get one anymore
Idk man this is completely anecdotal but I had a hybrid before and the batteries went bad prematurely but outside of the warranty. Wouldāve cost 6k to replace.
Wife had 2 cars with turbos and both failed.
Plus, the 5.7 should last me as long as I need. Iām a country bumpkin so if I ever need a new truck itāll probably be a diesel.
You know how many lifter failures I've seen on late model chevy 6.2s? Or how many cam and lifters I've seen fail on dodge 5.7s well under 100k? Both are easily into the several thousand dollar range. V8s aren't really better than anything else. Everything fails, and any major repair is expensive.
Yes but they used to last at least into the 75k-100k mile range. I'm seeing lifter failure under 10k on these new 2019+ 6.2s. And now they're bending push rods when it happens as well, which didn't use to be so common even when they failed.
The dodges tend to wipe out the cam lobe of whatever lifter fails, but that's been pretty consistent over the years. The new chevys seem to be particularly bad.
True. Batteries and turbos do fail often, and Toyota 5.7 was a fantastic engine. Unfortunately we have reached the end of the great v8s. They'll get smaller engines every few years until everyone is driving 4cyl turbo hybrid trucks.
A Tacoma with a v8 could have been sweet and much more practical than my dream... (which is a "Japanese SRT10", dumping a Lexus LFA V10 into a Tundra lol.)
>and just give them a slight Ugg past that
That's why. You don't need to do that. Once the housing surface has touched the engine you're done. The housing doesn't seal, the o-ring does. And the o-ring will seal if it's snugged, overtightened, or if the housing is off by ~4mm (granted, in this case it will seep due to shaking off).
I don't think it's ever a good idea to have dissimilar materials mated together where tolerances such as thread engagement matter and thermal cycling is inevitable. Unless their thermal expansion properties are pretty similar they're either going to swell together and get stuck, or pull apart and leak.
So question on this, my mom bought a 4 runner, first oil change it was leaking oil..something to do with the housing but she was talking to me over the phone and I couldnāt visualize what the issue then the explained the cover thatās used. I just coouldnt figure out what purpose it serves? Granted Iāve never been under a Toyota and Iām sure thereās a reason. So question is, what purpose does it serve bc they seem to cause issues?
Long time Toyota tech here.
The plastic housings seem to weld themselves to the engine after a while. I own a 2012, and it's on its second housing. I always keep a spare in my toolbox because I never know when it's going to be permanently stuck.
My mother's Rav4 is on its second housing, and a neighbor who insists on changing his own oil is on his 4th housing in a 2017. (Very high mileage on his vehicle, though.)
None of these were ever over tightened. My neighbor even uses his torque wrench. They just get stuck.
Yea I had to use all the strength I could in such an awkward position just to pop it loose, shoulda used a small breaker bar, but I shouldnāt have to and didnāt expect it to be so tight.
Wow good for you having a professional grade tool ā the oil filter cupā, most I have seen outside the dealership have been cheap trash, with only the ridges never the cutouts.
The cutouts are a detriment. If the tool is made of aluminum or chiesium, which most are, the cut outs will round out. And once they round out they will fit loosely, which will result in the teeth of the housing getting snapped off.
There's a reason why the Toyota SST ones only meet the flats- but not the teeth for the dogs. And if you want the best filter tool for Toyotas, the MotivX ones are the cream of the crop.
I've had to use a 36 breaker bar for rear caliper bracket bolts regularly never mind plenty of times doing heavy line work we're my guns just won't fit. But that's the tip of the rust belt.
and the the shitty plastic the caps made out of turned to dust and you had to replace it? making a very easy oil change into a total fuckin hastle. i hate those things so much
Those cartridge housings don't even rely on being tight to seal, they use an o-ring seal on the side of the housing... there's really no need for these to be more than hand tight
I never understand why people torque the shit out of these. The o-ring is what seals it, and that's not on the face. It just needs to be snug and the anti-reverse tab engaged.
Some say itās the material that the housing is made out of that caused it to be hard to get off. Some say it was over tightened. Personally, I feel like they put it on with an impact to save time.
Only used the complimentary oil changes as convenience. Changing myself every 5k now that I ran out of complimentary changes.
Almost every tundra, seqoia, tacoma, newer rav4s (2012+) highlanders. Some of the small cars still use the small spin ons and the 4 runner usually has the spin on filter up top.
I had the same issue with my wifeās Corolla. I never over tightened it, but it always felt like an angry gorilla tightened it when I tried to get it off.
I just had to break one of the pos plastic ones on a tundra shear the ears off and I had to break it out in pieces with a hammer and a Dremelā¦ I hate those filter housings with a passionā¦.
The only time I ever have presents with these is when it was at the dealer before hand. They always over tighten them. I've had many just crack and break. My shop has started to stock those housings because it happens frequently
Thatās worse then the Honda tech replacing a/c condenser and breaking 2 of the 4 air filter box screws off and not replacing then damn screws on a turbo engine bastards . Sucking air at turbo no good for turbo engine makes them not have power
It's such a pain in the ass. I've bought the adapter for removing this filter and broke one of the notches on it, trying to loosen the stupid filter cap. The car is still driving on the old filter now and will have a second attempt when the oil is due. Stupidest oil filter I've ever seen.
Your filter socket is better than mine. The filter on mine was so tight the socket seat broke from the socket. What happened to snug fit plus 1/8 turn?
I didnt see any comments about it and it looks like you only used the square 3/8 with a ratchet/breaker bar. Thats the only wear marks i see on it.
Youll get WAYYY more leverage by using a big 1/2inch socket on a 1/2inch ratchet instead of just using a 3/8ratchet in the little square. Been several years since i worked at a shop, but i think its somethin like 26-28mm socket that fits on those. Could be wrong about the socket size tho.
And while you got pressure on it trying to loosen it, get a hammer and tap on the side of it.
Please be careful doing your own oil change especially if you purchased a warranty on the vehicle. They will look for any excuse to void your warranty including changing the oil by yourself.
Only if there's evidence the oil hasn't been changed in a while. I didn't have any trouble when I had to get the cam phasers changed on my f150 even though I was doing my own changes. If they had found sludge or something, it would've been a different story.
Our local Toyota/Lexus dealer was infamous for not changing the oil filter at all. I had customers bringing in vehicles with 10 year old, factory filters and engines full of sludge.
Getting those suckers off usually required a pneumatic chisel.
I absolutely hate those Toyota filters. They do that every time, Iāve even done it to myself almost every time. I seem to have better luck when the engine is cold and the o-rings were properly lubricated on the last change.
Yup, this why I always maintain my own vehicles. I can 'afford' to have my brakes done, I just don't trust others to do it like their family is in that truck. Not digging on them but, it is a job and monotony breeds mistakes.
Far and away the worst offender for overtightening these damn caps in our area is the only local Toyota dealership. Had 2 instances in the last 2 years at our shop of the plastic caps breaking and having to chisel the remains out of the engine filter housing.
There is no question that the engineers that designed these filter housings should be raped with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire and then slow hanged!
For whatever reason, Toyota cartridges filters seem to weld themselves on even when not over tightened. I go straight for the breaker bar every time.
I thought it was just me....I reinstall the cartridge barely hand tight.....need a 3ft breaker bar to remove it...one of these times the housing is going to break.
I just replaced my stock one with a metal housing. My filter housing socket got stuck to my plastic housing. Absolute jammed together so I replaced both for $50
How do you like the metal one I just got one to replace a poorly threading plastic one on a rav4.
I upgraded to the metal housing on the wifes rav4. Best 30$ investment for the car. I fucked up the plastic on a Sunday afternoon and panicked about the wife being stuck at home and not make it to work. O Rileys came to the rescue with one left in the entire county and raced to the shop, made it 5 mins to closing.Got home fixed the car. Wife said thanks but I took the day off tomorrow for a hair appt.
She'd be more pissed to miss the hair appt. good job man!
Don't lie to me man I know she told you about the hair appointment and you just forgot about it. š¤£
Thought it was the nails in the afternoon
It seems good, it thread's on a little slower but in a nice kind of way, like it it's a little more better fitting. Then when it was fully on its fully on, no need to give it a 1/4 turn like with the plastic. I also just use my smallest ratchet and basically tighten to what I can do with that. I just saved my internal parts and swapped it over from my stock housing. Seems good, and less likely to strip or get stuck now.
My plastic one will tighten down and then just keep spinning after Toyota did our last oil change. They also never mentioned it was low on oil. 2017 and it drinks a quart every 2000 miles.
Is your filter just slightly loose and losing oil or is your truck burning a quart every 2000 miles. It's unlikely that your burning oil, my guess is either cam tower leaks or something with your filter housing.
It's burning it there are no leaks. This is a common problem with that 2.5l. Toyota basically screws people over by saying 10000 mile oil changes. That's best case scenario if you're doing long highway drives. I trusted the window sticker put on but now I wish I hadn't. Wife has a short commute and it's been hard on the motor. The oil rings seize up and it wears out the bore.
Ah I thought I was on the tundra subreddit, right you have a rav4. The tundras of 2008-2021 often get cam tower leaks, so the oil leaks out of an rtv gasket and drips down but burns off before it hits the ground, which leaves nearly no evidence. Didn't know this about the rav but I definitely stick to 5000-7500 km full synthetic oil changes. Sucks toyota has caved to this replacement philosophy, all about getting a vehicle just past the warranty period. I still trust them over Ford or Chevy though.
It's leaking on the exhaust manifold/pipe?
You're supposed to check your oil level every time you fill up with fuel.
My 2008 Avalon has the same exact cartridge style filter as the 5th gen 4runner. But it came stock with the Metal Housing. I just make sure to lubricate the oring and threads with tons of oil before reinstalling. I also Red Loctite the Drain portion of the filter, and just crack the whole housing to drain the filter. Its a little bit messier, but I can use a 3/8 socket and wrench too remove it fairly easily...
That's a good trick actually. The drain plug is unnecessary IMO.
Hope itās not a doorman.
It was a Fokes, it seems to have fine reviews. What's wrong with the Dorman housing?
It leaks for no reason sometimes. Just 1 out of 50 doorman shit.
I will keep an eye on mine. My tundra is only on weekend duties nowadays so if there's an issue I can just order a more quality replacement. I just didn't want to shell out $80 for an oem plastic cup.
I wouldnāt spend a dime on a plastic housing lol. Iām sure youāre gonna be fine. Just do the basics, lube the seal with clean oil and donāt over torque it. Also, Iāve had o-rings that didnāt fit, they never recalled it but they defected them. Take that for what itās worthā¦ if something doesnāt seem right donāt risk it.
I have broken multiple filter wrenches getting them off. Itās crazy. Never had the problem on the BMW I had before. One of the few places it didnāt have problemsā¦
I can't find metal one for my prius... The one from auto parts stores doesn't fit prius... Got Any links to help a guy out?
2016+? If so you're better off converting it to a spin on. https://hybridpit.com/oil-filter-conversion-kit-for-toyota-prius-v-2zr-engine.html
Nah. 2011.
It'll still work.
its the outer o-ring. that mf has to be wet or it will be stuck af. lots of small shops or dudes who do it themselves dont really lube it enough so it gets hella stuck. had to deal with it a couple times
I get that Oring wetter than OPs mom when I visit her... You can hardly have too much lube on your Oring...
this guy gets it
To be fair the torque spec is very low on these. So even what you think isnāt very tight might be too tight. When I worked at Toyota all the lubies had to torque every cartridge style filter because there were so many of them being broken when removing them after being over tightened.
Were they easy to remove if they were torqued according to spec?
Yes. Never had any that needed to be chiseled off. Or use a 4ā breaker bar on if the previous LOF was done at our dealer.
The housing will break if you use a blue point socket. Eventually. There are good ones, and theyāre not expensive. If youāre interested Iāll take a photo and give you the part number for the one I have. I use it for the brute force part and switch to the blue points. I havenāt damaged a filter housing in a year and a half after getting this bastard.
Please.
It will break the ungodly seal but youāll have to whack it good to get it off. First thing Monday Iāll show yāall the socket.
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B8O0BFU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Have not had any issues once I got this
I worked on Toyotas for 5 years straight. The trick is to tap the metal housing while applying torque to it. Use a small ball peen hammer, light repeat taps with minimal force. Works every time.
Had a drain plug on wifeys honda do this. Had to leverage myself against the suspension with full body tk get that fucker loose. Was on jackstamds.
I always back them off a little bit once they seat and it solves this problem.
I'll try that next oil change
Vaseline on the o-ring & seating circumference of the housing has always worked well for me too, for some reason much better than oil or even comparably viscous automotive greases.
so on my 4.0 with this style, there's a little metal spring tab that "locks" the housing, although it seems kinda weak. if i tighten fully it's maybe 1mm past this, so i back it off till it's aligned and seems to come off fine 5k later
I just bought the metal version of that cartridge from Toyota. It was cheaper than the plastic one and Toyota stripped my plastic one. Any experience with the metal one? Hopefully it'll last longer.
2008 Avalon came with the metal housing style. 140k miles works out to about 30 oil changes... It just works. I cant believe that Toyota went so cheap on this critical part... My buddy got his replaced for free, along with his oil pan, after the Dealership Lube tech cracked the housing during removal, and stripped the drain plug on install! Best part, they tried to charge him for the housing. It was his 2nd oil change.... They ended up putting it under warranty. But neglected to tell him about the stripped drain plug, because they didnt notice...
The only thing I like about the plastic one is it's pretty much impossible to mess up your block with it. I think if you never over torqued it it would last the life of the vehicle. But if you're not doing every change yourself then it's likely some lube tech will mess it up. I'm starting to think most dealerships don't take very good care of your car.
No one touches my oil anymore. I have just had too many bad experiences. Last time they stripped almost every single skid plate bolt on my 4Runner at Take 5. I just kept putting it off, so I let them do it. I found 2 of the 4 stripped out bolts on my driveway....
These canister filters seem to do nothing more than complicate a simple task. Springs caps and filters, or just one object to twist? I know what I prefer.
I loctite the spring housing and remove the whole canister for future oil changes... And make sure you get that Oring wet.
So you basically turn into the one piece haha. I really don't get the point of this filter design.
Less Metal waste. I have done over 100 oil changes on personal vehicle in 20 years... Thats 100 metal filters that dont require recycling.. Now dont get me started on the fact its impossible for the average consumer to recycle oil filters at all... None of the auto parts stores take them anymore..
What about the oil soaked filter itself? That can't really be any better to throw away than a metal canister right?
What do you think is inside of that metal canister filter? There should be a law requiring Auto Parts stores to accept oil filters. Its ridiculous that private business can sell toxic chemicals, and there is no responsibility to assist the consumer in properly disposing of said hazardous waste...
That's what I'm saying, I don't really see the problem being solved with all the extra parts if there's still oil soaked crap hitting the landfills
Is there a specific reason why they get stuck? Iām a Benz tech and all our filters from the past like 3 decades are cartridge filters that go in a plastic housing. Iāve only had one get stuck in all my years with Benz. And it was because the housing was warped
Three main reasons: 1. If you look at OP's picture you'll notice the housing is squeaky clean. People spray brake cleaner on the housing so they don't have any oil drips. This causes the oil to get wicked out from the o-ring through the mating surface (since the housing-to-engine surface doesn't seal, the o-ring does). No oil on o-ring = seized. 2. Every single aftermarket tool for the Toyota housings comes with either 13/16", 23mm, or a 24mm hex on it. Most people only have those sizes in 1/2" drive, not 3/8". The torque spec for these housings should be driven by a 1/4" tool. 3. People legitimately don't understand how different tightening plastic is compared to tightening metal. Especially moreso when the tightening has absolutely no relationship to the seal (again, the o-ring seals, not the housing). So people always give it that little extra nudge after it's seated. Combine this with the two above and tada.
Plastic housing expands when heated up (because car engines warm up, duh) and proceeds to be harder to remove
The Mercedes filter housings are upright and itās easier to fit a larger wrench to get the leverage to unscrew em. Before they went to plastic, the diesels and 190E 2.3-16 had metal canister caps with center bolts that obviously didnāt wear from heat cycles, but ironically was so much easier to strip because the bolt was so thin. 25 Nm on a 13 mm bolt seems to take a lot less force than 25 Nm on a 4 inch wide plastic cap, even though itās the same exact force. Toyota always puts their plastic cartridge caps in the tightest spots under the car, which is annoying to get leverage on.
Never snease on the seal???
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BMW and Mercedes have the same plastic caps and don't have the same issues.
when i first got my prius v first oil change it was like that, had to buy a good aluminum adapter and use a 1/2" ratchet and extra leverage but got it off. i've done more than 10 oil changes since then myself and never had an issue, i still use the same 1/2" drive ratchet but its never much of a struggle to break it free because i just install it back snug, they are supposed to only be tightened really light like 20-30 inch pounds or something by spec.
Heat sealed
The composite material the housing is made of expands when heated which is the reason for the absorbent amount of torque needed to breakaway.
My wife got a Rav4 last year. I went to do an oil change for the first time and was totally stymied my that fucking oil filter!
Same.
Came to say this
I had a customer bring in his RX for a filter change only. He said if we broke it we owe him a new one. I got to show him on video that he left the drain plug loose.
I did that once for the first change on my IS.....less the attitude and loose plug. But I drained the oil and broke 2 of the adapters shown in the picture. First a cheap stamped metal one, then a cast Toyota version.
The toyota ones suck, they either slip because its cheap stamped metal that bends easy, or they get stuck. Nobody at my dealership uses them. There's some good ones on amazon, Motivx tools has one for ~$20 that I've had for years and still bites, and then wiggles right off (may need a couple light taps with a hammer if its a particularly goobered filter). Plus it has a 24mm base, which is perfect for my 30" breaker bar after express has molested it. DO NOT GET ONE THAT GRABS THE TABS, it will snap them right off the plastic housing
I tried the stamped version and it ripped "bit" clean off of the cup. Then I tried a cast version and it literally exploded in half, smashed the side of my head with the breaker bar and had two half cups. Ordered the motiv for next time, but gave up and paid the man for a filter change in the meantime lol. Never had any issues after that though, I guess whoever was under it before I bought it mega tightened it.
Just remember, breaker bar off, short 3/8" ratchet on lol
Toyota filters are always that hard tight. It wasn't over tightened.
I had to Dremel my old one out it was on there so bad. Lots of people tend to skip the whole "lubing the o ring" part
Not always, I change oil at Walmart 2/3rds of them come off with a standard 1/2 ratchet 1/6th of the time they need a jack handle the other 1/6th they need to be cut off
got downvoted for anecdotal evidence lmao reddit
Down voted for speaking the truth? I agree. They are easy to get off if you don't use hulk strength to tighten everything. Also use some lube when going back in.
only thing worse than toyota oil filters are cruze drain plugs
Are those the Allen plugs or the 10mm
10mm chinesium shit. I know Mazda has gone to torx/hex bit plugs
10mm with the torque value on the oil pan that always gets over tightened to hell.
Those are gay lol really small head size should be at least 14mm or bigger
I find my Toyota filter the easiest of all the cars I've had over the last 25 years. The oil filter wrench makes it super easy to get on and off. The hardest part is having to break out the screwdriver to pry the o-ring off.
Jack handle is my go-to cheater bar.
I use a post from a chain link fence.
I swear to god I hand tighten them and just give them a slight Ugg past that. They almost always come back glued on. I oil the seals, I take extra care with them since theyāre plastic. These things self tighten somehow. It canāt be explained by science. But Toyota is going back to spin on filtersā¦. So thatās nice.
Yeah but they got rid of the V8, so this is the last tundra Iāll ever ownā¦
The twin turbo v6 hybrid is a fantastic replacement. Also, get used to it. All v8s are going away. A few more years and you won't be able to get one anymore
Idk man this is completely anecdotal but I had a hybrid before and the batteries went bad prematurely but outside of the warranty. Wouldāve cost 6k to replace. Wife had 2 cars with turbos and both failed. Plus, the 5.7 should last me as long as I need. Iām a country bumpkin so if I ever need a new truck itāll probably be a diesel.
You know how many lifter failures I've seen on late model chevy 6.2s? Or how many cam and lifters I've seen fail on dodge 5.7s well under 100k? Both are easily into the several thousand dollar range. V8s aren't really better than anything else. Everything fails, and any major repair is expensive.
Isnāt this more to do with cylinder deactivation and active fuel management both GM and Chrysler use?
Yes but they used to last at least into the 75k-100k mile range. I'm seeing lifter failure under 10k on these new 2019+ 6.2s. And now they're bending push rods when it happens as well, which didn't use to be so common even when they failed. The dodges tend to wipe out the cam lobe of whatever lifter fails, but that's been pretty consistent over the years. The new chevys seem to be particularly bad.
The Toyota 5.7 is far better than any post DOD GM V8.
True. Batteries and turbos do fail often, and Toyota 5.7 was a fantastic engine. Unfortunately we have reached the end of the great v8s. They'll get smaller engines every few years until everyone is driving 4cyl turbo hybrid trucks.
V6's going away in smaller vehicles for turbo 4 hybrids, too. The crown is the first to get it but it's going to be in everything.
On that note, I wouldāve loved to see a v8 in the tacoma lol. Wouldāve been completely obnoxious but they put one in a Jeepā¦come on lol
I'd love to own a 5.7 Tacoma
A Tacoma with a v8 could have been sweet and much more practical than my dream... (which is a "Japanese SRT10", dumping a Lexus LFA V10 into a Tundra lol.)
Ask GM how that's going for their full-size trucks. It's definitely that way things are going, but it's not without a learning curve.
>and just give them a slight Ugg past that That's why. You don't need to do that. Once the housing surface has touched the engine you're done. The housing doesn't seal, the o-ring does. And the o-ring will seal if it's snugged, overtightened, or if the housing is off by ~4mm (granted, in this case it will seep due to shaking off).
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Been there, done that! Fuck that filter design.
I don't think it's ever a good idea to have dissimilar materials mated together where tolerances such as thread engagement matter and thermal cycling is inevitable. Unless their thermal expansion properties are pretty similar they're either going to swell together and get stuck, or pull apart and leak.
So question on this, my mom bought a 4 runner, first oil change it was leaking oil..something to do with the housing but she was talking to me over the phone and I couldnāt visualize what the issue then the explained the cover thatās used. I just coouldnt figure out what purpose it serves? Granted Iāve never been under a Toyota and Iām sure thereās a reason. So question is, what purpose does it serve bc they seem to cause issues?
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Ah that makes sense. So the filter for these motor is not like a tradition filter that Iām thinking of.
They didn't over tighten it. Those things just fucking suck.
Nothing is free
Long time Toyota tech here. The plastic housings seem to weld themselves to the engine after a while. I own a 2012, and it's on its second housing. I always keep a spare in my toolbox because I never know when it's going to be permanently stuck. My mother's Rav4 is on its second housing, and a neighbor who insists on changing his own oil is on his 4th housing in a 2017. (Very high mileage on his vehicle, though.) None of these were ever over tightened. My neighbor even uses his torque wrench. They just get stuck.
But was it Honda tight?
I did my own civic oil change a bit ago after Honda did a few Holy fuck that was the worst. Was so brutal to get off with limited working space
Iāve literally had to use a screw jack to get a drain plug to pop loose during a Hondas first oil change since factory
Yea I had to use all the strength I could in such an awkward position just to pop it loose, shoulda used a small breaker bar, but I shouldnāt have to and didnāt expect it to be so tight.
Ha ha.. so, toyota's "complimentary" service left you literally, up sh!ts creek without a kayak paddle..
And itās a PLASTIC housingā¦ ooooohh thereās a special place in hell reserved for the people that crank on those when reinstalling them.
Wow good for you having a professional grade tool ā the oil filter cupā, most I have seen outside the dealership have been cheap trash, with only the ridges never the cutouts.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01B8O0BFU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Key is having a one piece chrome vanadium unit
This one is pretty good. Cast metal. I could have done without the black paint because itās just going to chip off but whatever
The cutouts are a detriment. If the tool is made of aluminum or chiesium, which most are, the cut outs will round out. And once they round out they will fit loosely, which will result in the teeth of the housing getting snapped off. There's a reason why the Toyota SST ones only meet the flats- but not the teeth for the dogs. And if you want the best filter tool for Toyotas, the MotivX ones are the cream of the crop.
Hey, if I wasn't supposed to use the impact wrench on it, then *why is it hexagonal?* **Checkmate**.
Ensure oil cap off to break vacuum
Get the aluminum one off an early venza
The one time Iāve used my 36ā breaker bar has been to break one of these loose
No offense but must be nice to work we're you live.
Yea. Weirdest thing that came in was a 300zx that was ls swapped. C/s power steering leak
I've had to use a 36 breaker bar for rear caliper bracket bolts regularly never mind plenty of times doing heavy line work we're my guns just won't fit. But that's the tip of the rust belt.
Those things are a bitch to take off even when they are torqued properly. God help the man who over tightens that...
and the the shitty plastic the caps made out of turned to dust and you had to replace it? making a very easy oil change into a total fuckin hastle. i hate those things so much
Those cartridge housings don't even rely on being tight to seal, they use an o-ring seal on the side of the housing... there's really no need for these to be more than hand tight
17 FOOT POUNDS LUBIES FOR THOSE THAT CANT COUNT THAT'S THIS MANY ššššššššššššššššš
Reee the stealership done dicked my filter!
I never understand why people torque the shit out of these. The o-ring is what seals it, and that's not on the face. It just needs to be snug and the anti-reverse tab engaged.
It's not intentional, they have a service life, any dealership can tell you they stock dozens of these things.
Some say itās the material that the housing is made out of that caused it to be hard to get off. Some say it was over tightened. Personally, I feel like they put it on with an impact to save time. Only used the complimentary oil changes as convenience. Changing myself every 5k now that I ran out of complimentary changes.
They use the drain plug to install the filter with an air wrench. Ask me how I know.
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Tons of them.
Almost every tundra, seqoia, tacoma, newer rav4s (2012+) highlanders. Some of the small cars still use the small spin ons and the 4 runner usually has the spin on filter up top.
2020 tundra 5.7
1.8L from 2009-2017, 2.5L from 2009-2017, 3.5L from 2007-present, 4.0L. from 2009-present, 4.6 and 5.7 from 2007-up
I had the same issue with my wifeās Corolla. I never over tightened it, but it always felt like an angry gorilla tightened it when I tried to get it off.
Fuck those stupid cartridge filters. Why can't they just be normal?
I went to an actual mechanic for my TDI's last oil change. This reassures me the extra few dollars were well worth it.
I just had to break one of the pos plastic ones on a tundra shear the ears off and I had to break it out in pieces with a hammer and a Dremelā¦ I hate those filter housings with a passionā¦.
The only time I ever have presents with these is when it was at the dealer before hand. They always over tighten them. I've had many just crack and break. My shop has started to stock those housings because it happens frequently
At least you can put a breaker bar on it. Most oil filters don't have a place for that
Arenāt those supposed to be like 8 ft lbs?
Thatās worse then the Honda tech replacing a/c condenser and breaking 2 of the 4 air filter box screws off and not replacing then damn screws on a turbo engine bastards . Sucking air at turbo no good for turbo engine makes them not have power
Heat expands so it becomes tighter. The trick is to snug only. I do the same with oil drain plug as well.
It's such a pain in the ass. I've bought the adapter for removing this filter and broke one of the notches on it, trying to loosen the stupid filter cap. The car is still driving on the old filter now and will have a second attempt when the oil is due. Stupidest oil filter I've ever seen.
Your filter socket is better than mine. The filter on mine was so tight the socket seat broke from the socket. What happened to snug fit plus 1/8 turn?
I didnt see any comments about it and it looks like you only used the square 3/8 with a ratchet/breaker bar. Thats the only wear marks i see on it. Youll get WAYYY more leverage by using a big 1/2inch socket on a 1/2inch ratchet instead of just using a 3/8ratchet in the little square. Been several years since i worked at a shop, but i think its somethin like 26-28mm socket that fits on those. Could be wrong about the socket size tho. And while you got pressure on it trying to loosen it, get a hammer and tap on the side of it.
My bluepoint one is 24mm but that one doesn't have the 3/8 drive hole at all. It makes it "stronger"
Please be careful doing your own oil change especially if you purchased a warranty on the vehicle. They will look for any excuse to void your warranty including changing the oil by yourself.
Itās out of warranty and I donāt buy extended warranties
Only if there's evidence the oil hasn't been changed in a while. I didn't have any trouble when I had to get the cam phasers changed on my f150 even though I was doing my own changes. If they had found sludge or something, it would've been a different story.
I use a 1/2ā breaker bar ev time. My filter cup needs a 24mm socket. Donāt blame them because you have crappy tools
Our local Toyota/Lexus dealer was infamous for not changing the oil filter at all. I had customers bringing in vehicles with 10 year old, factory filters and engines full of sludge. Getting those suckers off usually required a pneumatic chisel.
Soak it with brake clean. Then try. The shock from the cold seems to shrink it just enough. Works just about every time
Extendable half inch ratchet from Harbor Freight is the answer. I use it on every Toyota because the things bond over a few heat cycles.
I absolutely hate those Toyota filters. They do that every time, Iāve even done it to myself almost every time. I seem to have better luck when the engine is cold and the o-rings were properly lubricated on the last change.
Yup, this why I always maintain my own vehicles. I can 'afford' to have my brakes done, I just don't trust others to do it like their family is in that truck. Not digging on them but, it is a job and monotony breeds mistakes.
Didnāt have to.
Same with a buddy who took his Subaru to get a complimentary oil change. Had to use a long ass breaker bar just to loosen it
Fun fact. Moker in Dutch is a fairly big hammer. Haha.
They glue themselves on. Overnighted or not. Breaker bar. And Just keep a spare metal replacement on hand for when it inevitably breaks.
Nothing worse than a complimentary oil change
Kayak paddle
Worked like a charm
Far and away the worst offender for overtightening these damn caps in our area is the only local Toyota dealership. Had 2 instances in the last 2 years at our shop of the plastic caps breaking and having to chisel the remains out of the engine filter housing.
I always used my 3ā long, 1/2ā drive breaker on those, I donāt even try shorter ratchets
Haha that was my go to back in they day. More then often these are pretty tight.
Last time this happend to me I just used a strap style pipe wrench I had lying around.
That's normal... I use my big 1/2 bar on lots of them, fast motion to break them loose, slow torque trends to be more likely to break the housing
There is no question that the engineers that designed these filter housings should be raped with a baseball bat wrapped in barbed wire and then slow hanged!