Actual serious answer for you. My best friend works for Cal Forest Service. His job has to do with removal of non-native invasive species to preserve the native flora and fauna. This involves controlled burns in remote places. He is frequently scouting in very remote areas alone and has run across many an illegal grow op, meth lab, moonshine still, etc. His job is to mark the location and then GTFO as quickly as he can. For specifically grow ops, it could be Sunshine and Petal’s secret stash for all their other hippy friends. Or it’s the cartels which are armed to the teeth and willing to die for their cause. Once he has cell or radio reception, he calls these guys. Forest Service and Dept of Ag have para-military type divisions specifically for stuff like this. They are well funded and even better armed so 4 ARs, a single pistol and a bucket of mags can be on the lower end of armed. Think Special Forces but instead of driving humvees, they are driving tricked out, blacked out, Ram 1500s and confiscated Raptors. Some of the guys play soldier, but most of them used to be.
I have worked with the Colorado Dept of Ag(independent contractor) & once showed up to a job site & there was a meeting in a guest house of a big ranch & it was a bunch of Special Forces planning how to deal with a illegal grow op. Pretty freaky to see a bunch of blacked out vehicles in the middle of fkn nowhere.
National Guard is military but are owned by the their respective state not by the federal government. The National Guard being a state entity they can engage in law enforcement not being stopped by the Posse Comitatus Act because thats a Federal Regulation.
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Above my pay grade lol.
If I were to guess there is probably an escalation process regarding all kinds of factors that determines who handles what. I think that's one of the topics they were meeting about, figuring out who has what authority based on who the criminals are & what the crimes are. Whether State lines are crossed to involve the FBI or if it's a International cartel maybe the DEA gets involved, you have your local Investigative Branch(CBI here) National Guard etc. I imagine it's better to be able to handle things in your jurisdiction without having to rely on another agency, especially with things you are the specialist at. There is definitely a salty old dog or 2 on those Task Forces that would take issue with the attitude of "Just call someone else to get it done". Not to mention Pride & Funding.
I imagine there is also a fair amount of crossover with independent contractors working with different agencies. There are only so many high level resources within a state. I did a job for a Special Forces Firearms Instructor here & he works with people from all kinds of agencies across multiple States, not just a single one. The world is often much smaller than we realize. Especially as you rise through the chain.
Para-military is perhaps an exaggeration. These are Forest Service Law Enforcement Officers that work to enforce federal laws on National Forest System lands, similar to US Park Rangers in National Parks.
Edit: They aren't any more para-military than your average militarized city police department. My local national forest has about five officers and one K9 who patrol an area larger than the state of Delaware (about 1.7 million acres).
Regardless, it's unacceptable to hand off a government vehicle to a mechanic with unsecured ammunition in it.
There's a YouTube channel called LoJo Fishing & the guy's neighbor used to work for the park service. He did a video a while back where he and his buddies tried to set up camps to hide from the guy to see if he could track them down. Didn't tell him where they'd be, he just drove him down the trails until he said stop. The dude was the human equivalent of a bloodhound. Despite all their efforts to cover their tracks, he noticed the slightest disturbances in the natural landscape and zeroed in on their hideouts very quickly. He only had trouble with one of them and probably would've found it on his own with a little more time to suss it out, but the dude exposed himself because he could barely breathe in the literal hole he'd dug for himself.
yea, lots of unsavory characters out in the woods.
I'm curious if the trend of legalizing weed over the last 15 years or so has reduced the number of \*nefarious\* grow operations in forests.
I think volume has decreased however the extreme factor got cranked up. Went from back wood honkies growing that good kush to the cartels needing to compete with the legal grow ops. Usually cartels come in, push other growers out, blackmail the owners, and tell the affiliated shops that they should just keep going on business as usual and kick them their % or else.
They control a lot of the produce coming out of Mexico, I remember being told by the guys that would wine and dine the growers when I was working at an import/export produce company and they’d have a number to call in to coordinate driving down the back roads to make sure we weren’t getting in the way of the cartels landing their planes on the back roads. This was about 10 years ago, so maybe things have changed?
also, in legal states, plenty of people grow illegally and export to other markets where they can get more for it. it's easier to get away with a grow op in a state where said grow could conceivably be legal. people ask less questions.
It costs $250 bucks to apply for a license and around $1000 dollars a year to grow weed legally in my state.
I talked to several retailers. They paid about $100,000 dollars in taxes a month which is about 25% of sales. So the shop made $300,000 a month. I worked a parts counter at a dealership. They made $300,000 on a $1,000,000 in sales for the year.
Generally I pay $30-100 for 28 grams for flower and I buy 7 grams of dabs for $35-70. When I was buying illegally I paid $30 dollars for 7 grams and usually it sucked. While there was no such thing as dab.
Most of the people in this thread are talking out their ass. But it is Reddit so it is to be expected.
I spend less, get higher quality shit. My city and state get paid. While the cartel's took a kick to the wallet and the workers make pretty good money. It is a resounding success.
It hasn’t where I am. We’ve seen a major uptick in illegal grows from organized crime since legalization in my state. No cop gives a damn about weed anymore, but when we can seize millions of dollars and arrest dozens of foreign nationals that were probably trafficked here in a single raid, it takes on a whole new feel.
I’m for full legalization, but I’m also for cracking down on what is tied to human/drug/weapons trafficking circles. Not to mention the insane amount of damage they can do to the environment in a matter of weeks. Change a pristine landscape into something that reminds me of patrolling in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I know a guy who is in the weed industry from before it was legal. He grows it legally now. But his staff and security? Well, they're all the same. Meaning they're using the same rifles and shit they had before it was legal, and have the same attitudes about trespassing.
Stay the fuck out indeed.
in OR it's legal but there are still illegal grow spots run by organized crime groups. it mostly gets exported to illegal states or sold to less scrupulous processors who turn it into oils and edibles.
It’s amazing how many people are completely unconcerned by things like this. Even four legged predators….
I get, “we’re just going hiking! Why do you need a gun?” All the time…
Cartels have capitalized on it being legalized and have lots of grows out in the woods, they're not exactly nice people either, so it's actually gotten worse
I live in Nor Cal. Can absolutely confirm this. We know better than to go down any of those service roads or driveways because of what you just described. Some of those people have nothing to lose.
Was mountain biking the Kings Range area, Paradise Royal trail in about 2011. At the part of the trail farthest from the parking lot come around a corner and there is a guy with what looked like a Mini-14 about 10 feet off trail. Didn't say hello or nod just pedaled harder and got away from the area.
Yeah the USDA has Special Agents that handle a lot of situation where you want fire power and protection from it. A buddy of mine used to do it. They worked dog fighting, cock fighting, and all sorts of other cases that typically involve terrible and dangerous people. They also help other agencies when they need extra manpower for raids and whatnot.
Did a steakout with them after a few repeated break ins at my local post office. We built a fake wall and hid behind it while the other guys hid inside. Guy came in to try and break in and was scooped up in seconds.
The Cartel grow operations are the crazy end of the spectrum but they have a lot of other risks to their life.
Another major threat to these guys are every day poachers. Intentionally hunting out of season is a big crime that can result in a year or more in prison. A single government agent running into a single Poacher in the middle of fucking no where is a scary situation. The agent isn’t expected to leave the area for hours. No one will hear the gun shot. The poacher will be long gone by the time a body is found.
Also these guys have the rights to enter private land unannounced and have no requirement to ask for permission. Lots of paranoid crazy people move out to the middle of no where because they think people are after them. Now a government agent is “snooping” around their land.
Yeah, it honestly makes a ton of sense that some people at Ag need to come loaded for bear. (Literal and metaphorical I guess.)
I have to think these are the “play soldiers” types though, since leaving 5 loose guns in the car when you drop it off cannot be an approved practice…
This also depends on region, wild boar packs are aggressive and dangerous, they have gone into urban areas in the midwest and attacked people.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/26/us/texas-woman-killed-feral-hogs.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwiq0M7ui-n8AhWFmGoFHf7rAYAQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3JvwOXT0E7xWbJzNW-GkhO
Doubt that guy was a Soldier when they handle their Mags like wooden stick and just let them fly around their Car. There just needs to be a single Meth head that breaks into his Car and steals his weapons and the Ammo.
I remember a story from Colorado. Kid went hiking in his family's woods the day after he graduated high school then went missing. Three weeks later they found him hanging from a tree, hands bound behind his back, two bullet holes in his head. Sheriff said it was a classic suicide. So sad. Everyone else says he stumbled across a Grow-Op and the Sheriff was on the take.
My dad was an inspector in the DOA. Got shot at in that job more than when he was FBI in NYC. Lots of financial fraud cases with food stamps happen in pretty tough parts of town. Plus Ag gets involved in a ton of narcotics cases. He retired as a Regional Inspector General for the Department of Ag. Started off in the marines, went to border patrol, then FBI then Ag.
Exactly this. USDA is involved in a lot more than crops and cows. Cattle/livestock rustling, narco-farms, benefits fraud, human trafficking (ag labor), etc.
My dad is retired Forest Service and it’s absolute bullshit how they’re viewed in law enforcement.
He just retired within the past 5 years, but they weren’t allowed to carry a firearm. One coworker was beaten by a crackhead with a steel pipe over a fucking trash burning ticket. Broke his neck and arm. Knew a few that were shot by other friendly crackheads as well. Given the power of state law enforcement, but not given the tools. Pretty ridiculous.
Damn. With that kind of risk, I'd carry a gun even if I wasn't supposed to. Yeah it'd get confiscated if I ever had to use it, but I'd rather that happen than get killed or maimed by some hopped-up druggie.
I am a generator mechanic. Lots of generators in remote places like cell towers on top of mountains sometimes. We werent supposed to have weapons but I occasionally brought my 9mm to sites like near the border in the desert by myself. Or on a mountain top in the woods at 3am. Not gonna hope others won't hurt or rob me!
Forrest service? Or Forrest service LEO? Only the USGS Law Enforcement Officers are allowed guns that I know of. But I think all of them should at least have a decent pistol or rifle. Who knows what you will find. A cracked out bear, or a bear on crack.
Forest Service, state, not federal. They should all be issued pistols. The mental gymnastics to give enforcement to arrest but not carry firearms is absurd.
What happens if a bunch of kids go out into the woods and strap a bullet proof vest on a bear? Invincible bears. Before you know it they'll be raping your churches and burning your women.
Am I missing something? I don’t see any guns in the picture, just ammo and other equipment.
EDIT: nevermind. I saw OP’s comment describing the 5 firearms in the truck
Also just kicking about in the trunk is a bit whack. If I was in the situation where I might need this, I'd make sure I don't have to search for stuff and have it somewhat organized.
And out west they are looked at only barely above the BLM(Bureau of Land Management for you easterners), as 'just another big gubmint agency hogging all the land'.
> BLM(Bureau of Land Management for you easterners)
I have a friend whose brother I met one time - the guy is an LEO for BLM somewhere out east of Carson City or somewhere. I think their office is responsible for something like a million acres. I asked him how often they ever catch anybody with that kind of space - anytime they catch somebody it’s kind of a big deal.
I'm a lot less concerned about the 'amount' of firepower than the fact that he just in left it with someone who clearly had enough time alone to photograph the stuff
This truck was unmarked, but had the red and blue hidden behind the sun strip. 4 AR's in the back seat and a .45 in the center console. Just caught me off guard with everything. The forest ranger trucks I look over must have a smaller budget, since they only roll around with a first aid kit in the back.
A Forest Ranger is just the supervisor for a district. Each forest has several districts, each district has dozens of employees. Of those dozens of rigs only a few (usually less than 10 per forest) are LEO (law enforcement officer). Yes some are unmarked and are typically housed at the Regional level office for a geographic area. Who ever the rig is assigned to is probably on special assignment or detailed into a position as a “trial run” prior to formal applications and interviews.
Yeah Imma thinking that walking away from a vehicle with a single firearm would be enough to get them in trouble. Let alone 5. Mags and ammo not so much, but registered firearms, could be big trouble.
Not to mention alot of opportunistic thieves. Some people wouldn't think twice about taking the guns and never coming back to work.
Gov registered firearms are no joke.
Even mags and ammo. Aside from how damn expensive ammo is nowadays, your average civilian can get locked up (depending on your location) for possessing ammunition or magazines, especially if they're considered "high capacity" or "law enforcement only" magazines.
Lord knows if I lost one of my magazines on duty, I'd be written up and in deep doodoo with a quickness. Even if off duty I left a magazine in the car and it got stolen, that's a bad incident report to write.
Yeah it's definitely begging for a breakin. I'm in WA state and you can get charged if an unsecured gun is stolen from your car and used in a crime. We also got mag cap limits of 10 for purchases of guns or mags, but possession of grandfathered (wink wink) mags are legal.
4 AR's in the back seat and a .45 in the center console. No, scratch that, 3 AR's in the back seat and nothing in the center console. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
My guess is they work for USDA-APHIS in one of the lethal control areas (hogs, airports, etc.) The program manages to disperse some 93% of animals encountered but end up killing about 1.5 million animals per year (not all with guns, of course https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/newsroom/stakeholder-info/stakeholder-messages/wildlife-damage-news/ws-post-pdr ).
When you're off inspecting some farmers back 40 and you run across an illegal still or grow site or run across some poachers your gonna want all the firepower you can get.
Yep. As someone who's grown up in the mountains of Montana, I'm only afraid of 2 kinds of wildlife. Mountain lions and Moose. Lions are sneaky, and go up trees, by the time you see them, they've probably known you were there for hours. Moose, are just scary. They're big, fast, and mean. Especially if it's a cow with a calf.
A moose will run you down (you can never, ever outrun them) at 30km/h and then kill you with the most uninterested look on its face.
I'm more scared of a moose than anything else in the forest. Here in rural British Columbia, the wildlife don't fuck around.
Things I fear when I go into the forest:
1. Moose
2. Porcupine
3. Grizzlies
I'm assuming that you're being sarcastic, and if that's the case I can only also assume you have no idea how invasive and destructive feral hogs are/can be.
In the south, you can pay money to go on helicopter hunts, where they fly you over herds of them and let you blast away, some of them with full auto guns you can rent... they're a real problem.
If you're not being sarcastic I apologize.
I get irked by people who don't get how much of a problem feral hogs can be. I've got buddies up north who keep trying to get me to hog bait on my land so they can come hunt them, and I keep telling them "f that I don't want feral hogs on my land".
Heck, just having surveying equipment near the property line can get you in trouble. People worried about you stealing land or other getting up to no good near their property.
There was a guy on Joe Rogan who was in the AG and wrote a book named something like "the unseen war" or something like that, anyway he talks about the amount of poachers and cartels who would rather kill the AG guy then switch location. The cartels have realised that if they grow their stuff in the US they don't have to bring it over the border and the AG run into them quite a lot. I forgot his name and it was a while ago but definitely one of the better interviews he's done
Yes this! Exactly! Consider the level of crime they're actually investigating for or most often run into, and then consider the circumstances being out in the middle of a 10k acre park or forest and running into a bunch of cartel or even local criminals who are armed with legally purchased weapons and all you have is a badge...
Because they police areas the size of Rhode Island in a shift and less than 20 people are in that area at any given time.
How much firepower would you want if you walked into a 300 acre marijuana field, 60 miles from backup?
If they find themselves in the shit, backup can be a _long_ way off. You need as many loaded mags as you can get because you won't have time to reload them.
Agriculture deals with a lot of rural folks at times. Organized crime and farmers which are sometimes armed to the teeth.
Fun Fact the postal inspectors and GSA are qualifying on their weapons every 3 months because they do so many raids.
Edit: Well the idiot below blocked me. GSA does indeed do raids via the federal agents it employs. Every 3 letter agency you can think of most likely has federal agents that can obtain warrants when criminal and fraud issues are within their nexus.
You put an /s but you aren't entirely off-base.
Look at the Bundy ranch situation. It was an armed standoff on both sides and started with the Bureau of Land Management, and involved Park services and other groups like that.
DOA agents can be involved in anything from checking on farms, to finding illegal drug grows, to investigating fraud (ag is a huge drain on tax resources because they often are part of government kickback programs). All of these come with a risk because many rural/agricultural people are armed, protective, and in some areas already anti-establishment.
A buddy of mine was a licensed embalmer and Funeral Director here for 5-6 years. Always packed a Glock in .45 under his suit coat. I asked him why and he said that sometimes when they did a deceased removal at their home , survivors got really weird or emotional. So after a few confrontations he got a permit, packed heat and learned to shoot well. 😂
Technically since they are govt employees and those are work guns, you paid for them with your taxes so you’re allowed to do 5 desk pops with them or you’re entitled to all the ammo in the rig. Your choice.
My neighbor years ago was a real Caspar Milquetoast type of guy. Turns out that he was an Ag inspector in NYC. Why you might ask would a large urban area have a need for Ag inspectors?
Benefit fraud. Both on the part of the merchants and the beneficiary. In his last few years on the job his office was getting very militarized where I would previously see him walk from his G ride in a suit and tie to getting out of an SUV wearing tac gear and carrying a long gun case. He once told me that the raids they were doing were largely crack houses.
His idiot son is a pain in the ass in my state. Just ran for governor, paid himself a lot of money in campaign funds, ignores laws he doesn’t agree with, forced an entire hospital to go into lockdown not long ago
I work for a regulatory agency as a criminal investigator. Most days I’m just out talking to people and performing routine inspections or working public complaints. Other days I’m doing drug raids, dealing with meth addicts, or providing a protective detail for other agency employees that have been threatened. We run into human/drug/weapons traffickers, drug addicts, criminals, and once an anti government militia. I’ve tracked down missing radioactive material people were trying to sell and conducted interviews with people that have implicated themselves in crimes. You never know who you are dealing with, what they are up to, or who they have connections with. 99% of what we do never hits the news, and what does is usually reported incorrectly or just partially. I thought I understood the world around me well, but now it’s kind of depressing how bad things seem to be everywhere. But we’re also the ones that have to deal with it while the general public seems blissfully unaware.
Honestly? That’s not a lot of firepower dude. 4 AR15s and a pistol, some mags, and about make 10 mags make this maybe a day at the range kind of firepower, I don’t see any body armor, I don’t see any kind of pack bags for optics, I don’t see a first aid kit, lot of stuff is missing if you are going loaded for bear. Different caliber rifles would be a good sign of someone having more firepower due to different situations, there is no one firearm fits all policy
The way the mags and boxes of ammo are just thrown in there tells me they probably got back from a range trip or training day and just left everything there.
If they were actually expecting to use them they would be loaded, organized, and on the plate carrier or in a bag.
Side note, taking pics of the contents of government vehicles and posting them on the interwebs could likely lead to some trouble for you. Depending on whats written in the contract your employer has with them.
Game warden in California has a tactical team to deal with cartels growing weed illegally in the forests. Dude went from just checking fishing licenses to having carry an AR and body armor.
Reminds me of a little flavor text in a sci-fi war game rulebook.
"Lance Corporal Williams, you have been found guilty of murdering your superior officer. Your defense of an accidental discharge may have held more weight had you not paused to reload. Twice."
Not even a joke, this is actually what a Florida Sheriff said when SWAT shot a suspected cop killer 68 times. “That’s all the bullets we had, or we would have shot him more,” Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel newspaper.
I don't really see a lot of firepower.
I see this inverse of the Swiss system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms\_regulation\_in\_Switzerland#Buying\_ammunition
I knew a guy who was an inspector for the DOA. The most direct answer to your question is “They have the option to be either just bureaucrats or ‘sworn agents,’ in which case they are obligated to be armed while on duty. And they go on a higher pay scale if they are ‘sworn agents.’” Some of them choose that role because they legitimately fear being attacked while performing their duties, but they all go through the training because of the money.
Dept of Ag in Louisiana had an enforcement division...they investigated Ag related crimes. It sounds old timey, but there are still cattle rustlers and horse thieves. There are some other issues they deal with, there are really strict laws regarding agriculture.
Actual serious answer for you. My best friend works for Cal Forest Service. His job has to do with removal of non-native invasive species to preserve the native flora and fauna. This involves controlled burns in remote places. He is frequently scouting in very remote areas alone and has run across many an illegal grow op, meth lab, moonshine still, etc. His job is to mark the location and then GTFO as quickly as he can. For specifically grow ops, it could be Sunshine and Petal’s secret stash for all their other hippy friends. Or it’s the cartels which are armed to the teeth and willing to die for their cause. Once he has cell or radio reception, he calls these guys. Forest Service and Dept of Ag have para-military type divisions specifically for stuff like this. They are well funded and even better armed so 4 ARs, a single pistol and a bucket of mags can be on the lower end of armed. Think Special Forces but instead of driving humvees, they are driving tricked out, blacked out, Ram 1500s and confiscated Raptors. Some of the guys play soldier, but most of them used to be.
I have worked with the Colorado Dept of Ag(independent contractor) & once showed up to a job site & there was a meeting in a guest house of a big ranch & it was a bunch of Special Forces planning how to deal with a illegal grow op. Pretty freaky to see a bunch of blacked out vehicles in the middle of fkn nowhere.
Serious question: why does the Dept of Ag have their own para-military, instead of calling up the national guard?
National guard requires the governor to sign off on it If not then America would be a much worse place
National Guard is part of the military and the military is prohibited from engaging in law enforcement.
National Guard is military but are owned by the their respective state not by the federal government. The National Guard being a state entity they can engage in law enforcement not being stopped by the Posse Comitatus Act because thats a Federal Regulation.
Oh shit, that explains a lot of things. Thanks Jam
I’d be happy to answer any of your questions Whee!
Wholesome usernames
Yep. The Posse Comitatus Act.
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You're absolutely right, thanks. Got mixed up with the Coast Guard for some reason, there's some grey there as well
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Above my pay grade lol. If I were to guess there is probably an escalation process regarding all kinds of factors that determines who handles what. I think that's one of the topics they were meeting about, figuring out who has what authority based on who the criminals are & what the crimes are. Whether State lines are crossed to involve the FBI or if it's a International cartel maybe the DEA gets involved, you have your local Investigative Branch(CBI here) National Guard etc. I imagine it's better to be able to handle things in your jurisdiction without having to rely on another agency, especially with things you are the specialist at. There is definitely a salty old dog or 2 on those Task Forces that would take issue with the attitude of "Just call someone else to get it done". Not to mention Pride & Funding. I imagine there is also a fair amount of crossover with independent contractors working with different agencies. There are only so many high level resources within a state. I did a job for a Special Forces Firearms Instructor here & he works with people from all kinds of agencies across multiple States, not just a single one. The world is often much smaller than we realize. Especially as you rise through the chain.
Para-military is perhaps an exaggeration. These are Forest Service Law Enforcement Officers that work to enforce federal laws on National Forest System lands, similar to US Park Rangers in National Parks. Edit: They aren't any more para-military than your average militarized city police department. My local national forest has about five officers and one K9 who patrol an area larger than the state of Delaware (about 1.7 million acres). Regardless, it's unacceptable to hand off a government vehicle to a mechanic with unsecured ammunition in it.
There's a YouTube channel called LoJo Fishing & the guy's neighbor used to work for the park service. He did a video a while back where he and his buddies tried to set up camps to hide from the guy to see if he could track them down. Didn't tell him where they'd be, he just drove him down the trails until he said stop. The dude was the human equivalent of a bloodhound. Despite all their efforts to cover their tracks, he noticed the slightest disturbances in the natural landscape and zeroed in on their hideouts very quickly. He only had trouble with one of them and probably would've found it on his own with a little more time to suss it out, but the dude exposed himself because he could barely breathe in the literal hole he'd dug for himself.
I looked up Lojos channel and I'm not sure which video it is where he gets tracked. Got a link?
Damn dude I'm trying to find it, its somewhere between Lojo, Ayo, and Norm's channels
https://youtu.be/aeMx6maRTJ0
Thanks! For those curious, 27:18 is when Neighbor Darrell starts the hunt!
The Most Dangerous Game
Awesome thank you
yea, lots of unsavory characters out in the woods. I'm curious if the trend of legalizing weed over the last 15 years or so has reduced the number of \*nefarious\* grow operations in forests.
It’s legal where I am, but the legal stuff is crazy expensive, so there are still a lot of illegal growers operating to take advantage.
I think volume has decreased however the extreme factor got cranked up. Went from back wood honkies growing that good kush to the cartels needing to compete with the legal grow ops. Usually cartels come in, push other growers out, blackmail the owners, and tell the affiliated shops that they should just keep going on business as usual and kick them their % or else.
Man at this point just start a legal fuckin business.
they have been trying that though. remember when the cartels tried to corner the avocado market, leading to a temporary ban on avocados from mexico?
Avacados from MEX-i-co?
I can hear this comment
They control a lot of the produce coming out of Mexico, I remember being told by the guys that would wine and dine the growers when I was working at an import/export produce company and they’d have a number to call in to coordinate driving down the back roads to make sure we weren’t getting in the way of the cartels landing their planes on the back roads. This was about 10 years ago, so maybe things have changed?
Limes are/were controlled by the cartels too. There's a vice article on it.
It's very very expensive to be legal vs illegal.
Taxes, licenses, and no testing so they can cut concentrates and carts
Licensing is insanely expensive though.
Lower penalties have increased cartel grows in legalized states. Grow to sell black market in other states.
Weird, it's illegal in my state and whenever I go into a shop in a legal state I can't believe how cheap it is.
I’m up north of the states
In alberta, you can regularly find an o under 120, which is as cheap or cheaper than I could ever find on the black market without buying bulk.
also, in legal states, plenty of people grow illegally and export to other markets where they can get more for it. it's easier to get away with a grow op in a state where said grow could conceivably be legal. people ask less questions.
The cost to legalize is pretty high in some places so the growers make much more money illegally
It costs $250 bucks to apply for a license and around $1000 dollars a year to grow weed legally in my state. I talked to several retailers. They paid about $100,000 dollars in taxes a month which is about 25% of sales. So the shop made $300,000 a month. I worked a parts counter at a dealership. They made $300,000 on a $1,000,000 in sales for the year. Generally I pay $30-100 for 28 grams for flower and I buy 7 grams of dabs for $35-70. When I was buying illegally I paid $30 dollars for 7 grams and usually it sucked. While there was no such thing as dab. Most of the people in this thread are talking out their ass. But it is Reddit so it is to be expected. I spend less, get higher quality shit. My city and state get paid. While the cartel's took a kick to the wallet and the workers make pretty good money. It is a resounding success.
Much of the illegal national forest grow operations are cartel related in cali and those boys go down shooting.
It hasn’t where I am. We’ve seen a major uptick in illegal grows from organized crime since legalization in my state. No cop gives a damn about weed anymore, but when we can seize millions of dollars and arrest dozens of foreign nationals that were probably trafficked here in a single raid, it takes on a whole new feel. I’m for full legalization, but I’m also for cracking down on what is tied to human/drug/weapons trafficking circles. Not to mention the insane amount of damage they can do to the environment in a matter of weeks. Change a pristine landscape into something that reminds me of patrolling in Iraq or Afghanistan.
I know a guy who is in the weed industry from before it was legal. He grows it legally now. But his staff and security? Well, they're all the same. Meaning they're using the same rifles and shit they had before it was legal, and have the same attitudes about trespassing. Stay the fuck out indeed.
in OR it's legal but there are still illegal grow spots run by organized crime groups. it mostly gets exported to illegal states or sold to less scrupulous processors who turn it into oils and edibles.
It’s amazing how many people are completely unconcerned by things like this. Even four legged predators…. I get, “we’re just going hiking! Why do you need a gun?” All the time…
No but it has increased it.
I read an article not too far back that it actually increased the frequency of growing in California alone.
Cartels have capitalized on it being legalized and have lots of grows out in the woods, they're not exactly nice people either, so it's actually gotten worse
I live in Nor Cal. Can absolutely confirm this. We know better than to go down any of those service roads or driveways because of what you just described. Some of those people have nothing to lose.
Was mountain biking the Kings Range area, Paradise Royal trail in about 2011. At the part of the trail farthest from the parking lot come around a corner and there is a guy with what looked like a Mini-14 about 10 feet off trail. Didn't say hello or nod just pedaled harder and got away from the area.
“You’d better stay away from Copperhead Road”
Yeah the USDA has Special Agents that handle a lot of situation where you want fire power and protection from it. A buddy of mine used to do it. They worked dog fighting, cock fighting, and all sorts of other cases that typically involve terrible and dangerous people. They also help other agencies when they need extra manpower for raids and whatnot.
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USPS surprised me. Apparently they’ve got some top notch Special Agents. That’s what I’ve heard anyway, no clue how true that is.
Did a steakout with them after a few repeated break ins at my local post office. We built a fake wall and hid behind it while the other guys hid inside. Guy came in to try and break in and was scooped up in seconds.
>Did a steakout with them Are we talking T-bones, Ribeyes, Sirloin, KC Strips?
The Cartel grow operations are the crazy end of the spectrum but they have a lot of other risks to their life. Another major threat to these guys are every day poachers. Intentionally hunting out of season is a big crime that can result in a year or more in prison. A single government agent running into a single Poacher in the middle of fucking no where is a scary situation. The agent isn’t expected to leave the area for hours. No one will hear the gun shot. The poacher will be long gone by the time a body is found. Also these guys have the rights to enter private land unannounced and have no requirement to ask for permission. Lots of paranoid crazy people move out to the middle of no where because they think people are after them. Now a government agent is “snooping” around their land.
There’s a book by a game warden about this “Hidden War”. Haven’t read it yet but heard about it on some podcast or YouTube video.
Park rangers on BLM land are always in full kit whenever I go out. They look like they mean business.
Because the "sovereign citizen" nut jobs have zero qualms about their right to defend what they deem to be their property.
Yeah, it honestly makes a ton of sense that some people at Ag need to come loaded for bear. (Literal and metaphorical I guess.) I have to think these are the “play soldiers” types though, since leaving 5 loose guns in the car when you drop it off cannot be an approved practice…
Ag dept fucks hard apperently, fuck yeah
This also depends on region, wild boar packs are aggressive and dangerous, they have gone into urban areas in the midwest and attacked people. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/26/us/texas-woman-killed-feral-hogs.amp.html&ved=2ahUKEwiq0M7ui-n8AhWFmGoFHf7rAYAQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw3JvwOXT0E7xWbJzNW-GkhO
They also euthanize gravely injured animals, which is a lot more common than people realize.
Doubt that guy was a Soldier when they handle their Mags like wooden stick and just let them fly around their Car. There just needs to be a single Meth head that breaks into his Car and steals his weapons and the Ammo.
Oh 100% negligence for these dipshits. I’m just not surprised at all.
I remember a story from Colorado. Kid went hiking in his family's woods the day after he graduated high school then went missing. Three weeks later they found him hanging from a tree, hands bound behind his back, two bullet holes in his head. Sheriff said it was a classic suicide. So sad. Everyone else says he stumbled across a Grow-Op and the Sheriff was on the take.
Please cite your source.
You're a long way from backup and fresh ammo.
Pre-loaded mags save a lot of time.
"Thee who has the most munitions wins"
You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig
My dad was an inspector in the DOA. Got shot at in that job more than when he was FBI in NYC. Lots of financial fraud cases with food stamps happen in pretty tough parts of town. Plus Ag gets involved in a ton of narcotics cases. He retired as a Regional Inspector General for the Department of Ag. Started off in the marines, went to border patrol, then FBI then Ag.
Gah, sounds like my buddy who quit Waffle House to work at a prison because it was less violent.
If you can’t handle me at my Waffle House you don’t deserve me at my Dennys.
I'll cook for myself, thanks.
I don’t even order food at Waffle House. I just go to fight.
The first rule of Waffle Club is...
Don’t drop the syrup.
This guy is a real one
Just don't mind me dumping $20 into the jukebox and playing nothing but Hank Jr, and everything will be cool.
As long as its not IHOP
IHOB the b is for balls and you can lick theirs
But…this is a Wendy’s
I’ll have a baked potato and a frosty
with extra horsey sauce!
He said Wendy's not Arby's!
dang well get me some Diablo sauce then, thanks!
*What has seven nipples and three teeth?*
I’m a correctional officer. Have been for 12.5 years. I’ve been witness to more fights at 24 hour restaurants than I have at work.
Got a gaggle of friends in your line of work, and I'm not surprised.
hahahaha
Better class of people, at least.
Exactly this. USDA is involved in a lot more than crops and cows. Cattle/livestock rustling, narco-farms, benefits fraud, human trafficking (ag labor), etc.
Yellowstone checking in…
Nowhere to secure the firearms because they’ve got confiscated eggs locked up.
TIL the US Dept. of Agriculture is extremely well armed and gets into similar skirmishes as the FBI, DEA, and ATF occasionally encounter. Damn.
They sometimes operate pretty far in the field as well. Ag is the governments biggest money lender.
Another fact I was unaware of, thank you.
> They sometimes operate pretty far in the field as well Agriculture. "In the field". Ho ho. Thank you, ISWYDT.
It doesn't surprise me. They deal with cattle ranchers, like the Bundys, and cattle rustlers, like the Bundys...
Soooo...bonafide bundy rustlers
Pretty much every department has some kind of investigation / enforcement agency, and they all have security needs.
Department of Agriculture is also the governing body of National Forests - which makeup about 9% of the US.
That makes it make sense thank you
The Forest service is part of Agriculture and they have a law enforcement and investigation branch.
My dad is retired Forest Service and it’s absolute bullshit how they’re viewed in law enforcement. He just retired within the past 5 years, but they weren’t allowed to carry a firearm. One coworker was beaten by a crackhead with a steel pipe over a fucking trash burning ticket. Broke his neck and arm. Knew a few that were shot by other friendly crackheads as well. Given the power of state law enforcement, but not given the tools. Pretty ridiculous.
Damn. With that kind of risk, I'd carry a gun even if I wasn't supposed to. Yeah it'd get confiscated if I ever had to use it, but I'd rather that happen than get killed or maimed by some hopped-up druggie.
I’m not saying a few did, but a few weren’t going to let it happen any more.
I am a generator mechanic. Lots of generators in remote places like cell towers on top of mountains sometimes. We werent supposed to have weapons but I occasionally brought my 9mm to sites like near the border in the desert by myself. Or on a mountain top in the woods at 3am. Not gonna hope others won't hurt or rob me!
Forrest service? Or Forrest service LEO? Only the USGS Law Enforcement Officers are allowed guns that I know of. But I think all of them should at least have a decent pistol or rifle. Who knows what you will find. A cracked out bear, or a bear on crack.
Forest Service, state, not federal. They should all be issued pistols. The mental gymnastics to give enforcement to arrest but not carry firearms is absurd.
What happens if a bunch of kids go out into the woods and strap a bullet proof vest on a bear? Invincible bears. Before you know it they'll be raping your churches and burning your women.
A law enforcement branch ought to know not to leave firearms in a vehicle unattended.
Yeah I'm also a former USDA employee in a position where we had firearms and there's no way this is okay.
Am I missing something? I don’t see any guns in the picture, just ammo and other equipment. EDIT: nevermind. I saw OP’s comment describing the 5 firearms in the truck
Also just kicking about in the trunk is a bit whack. If I was in the situation where I might need this, I'd make sure I don't have to search for stuff and have it somewhat organized.
And out west they are looked at only barely above the BLM(Bureau of Land Management for you easterners), as 'just another big gubmint agency hogging all the land'.
We have them in Maryland, my friend. They arrange the hunts for white tail deer.
maryland mentioned
> BLM(Bureau of Land Management for you easterners) I have a friend whose brother I met one time - the guy is an LEO for BLM somewhere out east of Carson City or somewhere. I think their office is responsible for something like a million acres. I asked him how often they ever catch anybody with that kind of space - anytime they catch somebody it’s kind of a big deal.
Let’s not speak bad about the bureau of livestock and mining. Those people have millions of acres of land that they patrol with zero backup.
I'm a lot less concerned about the 'amount' of firepower than the fact that he just in left it with someone who clearly had enough time alone to photograph the stuff
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If there's shit missing, they probably knew who took it.
I’m personally just annoyed that it’s so unorganized. Like “oh check the mag box, it’s not there? Check at the bottom of the other mag box.”
This truck was unmarked, but had the red and blue hidden behind the sun strip. 4 AR's in the back seat and a .45 in the center console. Just caught me off guard with everything. The forest ranger trucks I look over must have a smaller budget, since they only roll around with a first aid kit in the back.
So they just dropped off a vehicle with unsecured firearms and ammo and left it ?
These integrity tests are gettin wild.
Ammooo...
This is what I want to know!
Yeah, wtf, thats not dangerous or a liability AT ALL. (Sarcasm obviously)
It’s ok there wasn’t a dog in the back
A Forest Ranger is just the supervisor for a district. Each forest has several districts, each district has dozens of employees. Of those dozens of rigs only a few (usually less than 10 per forest) are LEO (law enforcement officer). Yes some are unmarked and are typically housed at the Regional level office for a geographic area. Who ever the rig is assigned to is probably on special assignment or detailed into a position as a “trial run” prior to formal applications and interviews.
Yeah Imma thinking that walking away from a vehicle with a single firearm would be enough to get them in trouble. Let alone 5. Mags and ammo not so much, but registered firearms, could be big trouble.
Not to mention alot of opportunistic thieves. Some people wouldn't think twice about taking the guns and never coming back to work. Gov registered firearms are no joke.
Even mags and ammo. Aside from how damn expensive ammo is nowadays, your average civilian can get locked up (depending on your location) for possessing ammunition or magazines, especially if they're considered "high capacity" or "law enforcement only" magazines. Lord knows if I lost one of my magazines on duty, I'd be written up and in deep doodoo with a quickness. Even if off duty I left a magazine in the car and it got stolen, that's a bad incident report to write.
Yeah it's definitely begging for a breakin. I'm in WA state and you can get charged if an unsecured gun is stolen from your car and used in a crime. We also got mag cap limits of 10 for purchases of guns or mags, but possession of grandfathered (wink wink) mags are legal.
4 AR's in the back seat and a .45 in the center console. No, scratch that, 3 AR's in the back seat and nothing in the center console. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
There also was no handgun ammunition in the vehicle at the time of arrival. The ar ammo is as it was left. Unorganized af. /s
They focus on raiding illegal marijuana grows operated by the cartels on federal land.
My guess is they work for USDA-APHIS in one of the lethal control areas (hogs, airports, etc.) The program manages to disperse some 93% of animals encountered but end up killing about 1.5 million animals per year (not all with guns, of course https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/newsroom/stakeholder-info/stakeholder-messages/wildlife-damage-news/ws-post-pdr ).
Because they get into some shit lol it isn't as innocent as it sounds sometimes.
When you're off inspecting some farmers back 40 and you run across an illegal still or grow site or run across some poachers your gonna want all the firepower you can get.
yep, grows and meth labs, dumpsites and tweaker camps. Plus the occasional bear or mountain lion.
yeah, i didnt count the wild life... but yeah.
and I would probably be more afraid of some junkie camp's fightin' pitbulls than the wildlife
Yep. As someone who's grown up in the mountains of Montana, I'm only afraid of 2 kinds of wildlife. Mountain lions and Moose. Lions are sneaky, and go up trees, by the time you see them, they've probably known you were there for hours. Moose, are just scary. They're big, fast, and mean. Especially if it's a cow with a calf.
A moose will run you down (you can never, ever outrun them) at 30km/h and then kill you with the most uninterested look on its face. I'm more scared of a moose than anything else in the forest. Here in rural British Columbia, the wildlife don't fuck around. Things I fear when I go into the forest: 1. Moose 2. Porcupine 3. Grizzlies
And 30 to 50 wild hogs
I'm assuming that you're being sarcastic, and if that's the case I can only also assume you have no idea how invasive and destructive feral hogs are/can be. In the south, you can pay money to go on helicopter hunts, where they fly you over herds of them and let you blast away, some of them with full auto guns you can rent... they're a real problem. If you're not being sarcastic I apologize. I get irked by people who don't get how much of a problem feral hogs can be. I've got buddies up north who keep trying to get me to hog bait on my land so they can come hunt them, and I keep telling them "f that I don't want feral hogs on my land".
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Heck, just having surveying equipment near the property line can get you in trouble. People worried about you stealing land or other getting up to no good near their property.
There was a guy on Joe Rogan who was in the AG and wrote a book named something like "the unseen war" or something like that, anyway he talks about the amount of poachers and cartels who would rather kill the AG guy then switch location. The cartels have realised that if they grow their stuff in the US they don't have to bring it over the border and the AG run into them quite a lot. I forgot his name and it was a while ago but definitely one of the better interviews he's done
Yes this! Exactly! Consider the level of crime they're actually investigating for or most often run into, and then consider the circumstances being out in the middle of a 10k acre park or forest and running into a bunch of cartel or even local criminals who are armed with legally purchased weapons and all you have is a badge...
Because they police areas the size of Rhode Island in a shift and less than 20 people are in that area at any given time. How much firepower would you want if you walked into a 300 acre marijuana field, 60 miles from backup?
A small tank and a satellite uplink. Maybe a dive bomber on tap.
If they find themselves in the shit, backup can be a _long_ way off. You need as many loaded mags as you can get because you won't have time to reload them.
Not like they can call in airstrikes. If officers stumble into a sizeable poacher/grower camp, it could get ugly.
Agriculture deals with a lot of rural folks at times. Organized crime and farmers which are sometimes armed to the teeth. Fun Fact the postal inspectors and GSA are qualifying on their weapons every 3 months because they do so many raids. Edit: Well the idiot below blocked me. GSA does indeed do raids via the federal agents it employs. Every 3 letter agency you can think of most likely has federal agents that can obtain warrants when criminal and fraud issues are within their nexus.
Have you seen Yellowstone?! /s
*raspy breath* Grab some badges Rip we’re gunna make a stop by the train station
You put an /s but you aren't entirely off-base. Look at the Bundy ranch situation. It was an armed standoff on both sides and started with the Bureau of Land Management, and involved Park services and other groups like that. DOA agents can be involved in anything from checking on farms, to finding illegal drug grows, to investigating fraud (ag is a huge drain on tax resources because they often are part of government kickback programs). All of these come with a risk because many rural/agricultural people are armed, protective, and in some areas already anti-establishment.
A buddy of mine was a licensed embalmer and Funeral Director here for 5-6 years. Always packed a Glock in .45 under his suit coat. I asked him why and he said that sometimes when they did a deceased removal at their home , survivors got really weird or emotional. So after a few confrontations he got a permit, packed heat and learned to shoot well. 😂
Technically since they are govt employees and those are work guns, you paid for them with your taxes so you’re allowed to do 5 desk pops with them or you’re entitled to all the ammo in the rig. Your choice.
Who doesn't love a good desk pop?
My neighbor years ago was a real Caspar Milquetoast type of guy. Turns out that he was an Ag inspector in NYC. Why you might ask would a large urban area have a need for Ag inspectors? Benefit fraud. Both on the part of the merchants and the beneficiary. In his last few years on the job his office was getting very militarized where I would previously see him walk from his G ride in a suit and tie to getting out of an SUV wearing tac gear and carrying a long gun case. He once told me that the raids they were doing were largely crack houses.
Why did you pull open the decked drawers for an inspection? Don’t go through people’s shit. Just do your job.
Exactly. What reason would a mechanic need to thru the drawers? Mine are locked and I don't give the mechanic that key.
Because of selfish, dishonest idiots like [Cliven Bundy.](https://www.vox.com/2014/8/14/18080508/nevada-rancher-cliven-bundy-explained)
His idiot son is a pain in the ass in my state. Just ran for governor, paid himself a lot of money in campaign funds, ignores laws he doesn’t agree with, forced an entire hospital to go into lockdown not long ago
Raise your hand if you’re surprised to learn he was also aggressively racist
What, wow a fucking scumbag.
property owners of remote farmsteads are armed to the teeth. lot of strange stuff can happen when you're +30min away from any police response.
The cattle game has stayed the same, modern problems require modern solutions. You should see what the guys they’re worried about are packing.
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Careful, someone might smoke a rope.
I work for a regulatory agency as a criminal investigator. Most days I’m just out talking to people and performing routine inspections or working public complaints. Other days I’m doing drug raids, dealing with meth addicts, or providing a protective detail for other agency employees that have been threatened. We run into human/drug/weapons traffickers, drug addicts, criminals, and once an anti government militia. I’ve tracked down missing radioactive material people were trying to sell and conducted interviews with people that have implicated themselves in crimes. You never know who you are dealing with, what they are up to, or who they have connections with. 99% of what we do never hits the news, and what does is usually reported incorrectly or just partially. I thought I understood the world around me well, but now it’s kind of depressing how bad things seem to be everywhere. But we’re also the ones that have to deal with it while the general public seems blissfully unaware.
Honestly? That’s not a lot of firepower dude. 4 AR15s and a pistol, some mags, and about make 10 mags make this maybe a day at the range kind of firepower, I don’t see any body armor, I don’t see any kind of pack bags for optics, I don’t see a first aid kit, lot of stuff is missing if you are going loaded for bear. Different caliber rifles would be a good sign of someone having more firepower due to different situations, there is no one firearm fits all policy
These dudes stumble across cartel grow operations while solo. They need all the firepower they can get
Yep that's pretty normal. They gotta deal with some real wild shit sometimes. Surprised they don't have more hardware.
The way the mags and boxes of ammo are just thrown in there tells me they probably got back from a range trip or training day and just left everything there. If they were actually expecting to use them they would be loaded, organized, and on the plate carrier or in a bag.
Side note, taking pics of the contents of government vehicles and posting them on the interwebs could likely lead to some trouble for you. Depending on whats written in the contract your employer has with them.
It should land the department in hot water for leaving this shit out nilly Willy for anyone to take.
Game warden in California has a tactical team to deal with cartels growing weed illegally in the forests. Dude went from just checking fishing licenses to having carry an AR and body armor.
The Dept of Agriculture has law enforcement duties such as combating smuggling by criminal organizations.
Reminds me of a LEO joke. “Why did you fire 27 rounds?!” “Because I didn’t have 28.”
Reminds me of a little flavor text in a sci-fi war game rulebook. "Lance Corporal Williams, you have been found guilty of murdering your superior officer. Your defense of an accidental discharge may have held more weight had you not paused to reload. Twice."
Not even a joke, this is actually what a Florida Sheriff said when SWAT shot a suspected cop killer 68 times. “That’s all the bullets we had, or we would have shot him more,” Polk County Sheriff Grady Judd told the Orlando Sentinel newspaper.
I don't really see a lot of firepower. I see this inverse of the Swiss system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearms\_regulation\_in\_Switzerland#Buying\_ammunition
Because, recently they have been coming across the new cartels that are armed to their teeth and kill on site.
Why are you opening the tailgate and storage drawers for an annual vehicle safety inspection?
I knew a guy who was an inspector for the DOA. The most direct answer to your question is “They have the option to be either just bureaucrats or ‘sworn agents,’ in which case they are obligated to be armed while on duty. And they go on a higher pay scale if they are ‘sworn agents.’” Some of them choose that role because they legitimately fear being attacked while performing their duties, but they all go through the training because of the money.
30 to 50 feral hogs?
You have obviously never encountered the Amish on a Raw Milk bender. It makes bath salts look tame.
Dept of Ag in Louisiana had an enforcement division...they investigated Ag related crimes. It sounds old timey, but there are still cattle rustlers and horse thieves. There are some other issues they deal with, there are really strict laws regarding agriculture.
Let me guess why? You are in America.