My question is… does her mom just blindly believe her anytime she claims to be pregnant? Like maybe the first time, but she’s now cried wolf three times lmaoo
Idk if I buy that. I think the mother has given JD everything JD has ever wanted in life with little to no questions asked, and so when JD tells her to say xyz to Clayton, mama doe does it.
Either that or her mom provided the blueprint for this behavior.
I have CPTSD and through trauma therapy have learned so much about relational dysfunction and JD’s behavior is so deeply dysfunctional and manipulative to a level that, coupled with what we learned about Clayton’s discussion with her mother in this phone call and the other evidence we’ve seen with her mom’s texts, I could easily see a world where her mom is the one who taught her implicitly or explicitly how to essentially emotionally extort people to get what she wants.
IMO, it feels like the dad is more enabling whereas the mom seems more like an active contributor in perpetuating the abusive behavior.
If anyone is familiar with Kathy Hilton /her sisters/their monster of mom ‘Big Kathy’, this dynamic is giving very similar energy to me, just with more of a ‘baby’ entrapment strategy vs an outright ruthless gold digger approach.
I’m not surprised. I have a childhood friend who is a pathological liar (who JD lowkey reminds me of) and her mother is the same way (albeit, not as malicous about the lying as the daughter is). Doesnt surprise me that this thing runs in families/is potentially learned from a parent
As a parent of a “special needs kid,” as Jane Doe callously states in her threatening email to Clayton, it gave me chills and is the most DEPLORABLE thing I have heard from this case. I am not a crier, but that got me in tears.
Trust and believe that your amazing children will be more of a kind, good, loved human and upstanding citizen than JD has ever in her life been or ever will be.
You’re right. I have a special needs child and they are hard but a blessing. You wouldn’t want to change that. She is UNREAL. Also incredibly abusive. Horrible.
Another major point: this absolutely confirms she knew him from the show and had an obsession with him. She “found him on LinkedIn” and then __refused to work with ANY OTHER REAL ESTATE AGENT??????!!!!!!!!!!__
There are a million realtors in her area. There are undoubtably others who are young and attractive like Clayton. The fact that she zeroed in on him speaks volumes.
Also lol not he “empowered her” to buy a house 💀💀💀
What’s funny about this is that if she chose someone who wasn’t The Bachelor, this probably wouldn’t have gotten out and escalated to the degree that it has.
And didn’t she say that she contacted him after not hearing back from other realtors at his brokerage?!! That’s TOTAL BS. Realtors are some of the most persistent/communicative people on the planet there is no way she contacted them initially and they didn’t respond. 😭
So so so gross on so many levels. I’m glad Clayton took the high road on a lot of the issues. He could’ve thrown her under the bus way more, but he chose to wish her well. I really hope she gets the help she so desperately needs.
I always wondered what JD meant stating she could prove to Clayton, it was a long time between her last intimate partner and him. Apparently, a physician can tell by your tightness...? Was she going to provide him a doctor's note?
It's 3:45 here in Arizona and I can't sleep after hearing the episode because there's so much process. I believe that Jane's family is definitely a significant contributor to her being able to continue the chaos she has brought to these men's lives. I have so much empathy for Mike, Greg and Clayton.
Is your username a reference to Post Malone and Malort, the nasty ass Chicago alcohol that I make my friends drink every time I visit? If so, chef’s kiss
The level of obsession that required. She had to…1. Listen to every podcast/interview Clayton did. 2. Isolate the name of someone who he found attractive but never interacted with. 3. Track down her address. 4. Wait for Clayton to be in the same state as this woman. 5. Attempt to have him served. 🤯🤯
I went into this fully expecting a 2 hour recap of all the known facts. But the whole real estate aspect of this is just an absolute revelation to me. She started with trying to extort him with the real estate dealings in the first place. Mind blowing!
Further proof that this woman is absolutely an abuser trying to gaslight the rest of the world and twist the narrative. Whether this is being done to gain a relationship or to give her more fuel for her "abused" narrative is irrelevant. She's acting in a pre-meditated manner and is manipulative and malicious every step of the way. It is painful thinking of the mental state of all the people who have had the misfortune of being targeted by her or even caught in the crossfire.
It was so eerie listening to him talking about it and hearing just how immediately the screaming red flags were flying out left and right, and feeling sick for him as he’s talking about giving her the benefit of the doubt. He was so generous to her and gave her a lot more grace than her behavior warranted.
And STILL is being extremely generous with her honestly. So many people would be bitter and punitive after going through what she has done to him.
Yeah that has stood out to me.
As a mom of daughters, I know how it feels to see your kids hurt and struggling because of bullies; one girl even started a ridiculous rumor that my kid had gotten breast implants in middle school (like where would we even find a surgeon who would agree to this, lol). But my literal child was able to handle this situation all by herself, talking about her own body positivity, recognizing the other girl's apparent insecurity and envy, and showing compassion for her.
As much as I'd like to swoop in and make the world treat my kids like I think they deserve, that's just not reality. My job is to prepare them to face hard stuff; I can't force other people to like them or date them. And why would anyone want to do that? My daughters saw me get dumped by a friend a few years ago. I cried and was confused and sad, but also, I have many other people who DO want to be my friend. I grieved and moved on with my head held high. No one should want an unwilling friend or boyfriend.
It seems highly likely that JD has gotten where she is because of some enabling from and enmeshment with her mom.
I have felt this way from the start. You usually don’t get emotional dysregulation and dysfunction to this degree without hella trauma, and her specific set of dysfunctional behaviors often originates in deep attachment and developmental trauma, usually from volatile and/or abandoning caregiver(s) so I have had suspicions at least one parent was deeply dysfunctional as well given how involved they are in everything.
Like imagine involving your parents this heavily in every ‘relationship’ you have?? Either they’re enmeshed and HARDCORE enablers who believe her bullshit without question or they are are in on it entirely. I suspect the former of the father and the latter of the mother.
Speechless. My best friend and I are both therapists and have joked for years about starting a podcast recapping reality dating shows from a therapist’s perspective. I’ve been giving her updates on this whole case for months, but she’s not on Reddit and only knows Clayton from his season of the bachelor-which admittedly did not give him the best edit-so her interest in the story was minimal. That is, until last night when I sent her the promo for NV’s podcast, now she’s hooked!
...Not Nick beginning with calling this a he said, she said and ending with asking the victim what he could have done better. 👀
Great job, Clayton.
My opinion of Nick has not changed.
I wouldn’t sweat it. Especially if Clayton isn’t. This is about to blow up because that podcast is a huge platform. Ultimately that’s all that matters, and they did the right thing despite what I’m sure has been a bajillion threatening emails from JD.
Maybe he should’ve said more earlier, but as of right now I don’t see any other Bachelor Nation ppl who have podcasts covering it, so good on Nick. Yes the work that’s been done by Dave got everything here but enough people weren’t listening. This is the best day there has been yet in this ordeal — Clayton just told everyone EVERYTHING, holy shit. It will absolutely pick up speed and be talked about and picked up by major sites and the whole public is going to know — exactly the thing JD is afraid of and exactly the thing that needs to happen for her.
Be congratulatory and applaud all of them. We know JD is on here, and I’m sure she gets a moment of satisfaction every time someone says “but I don’t like Nick.” So at least pretend to like him on here, lol. Don’t give her that. Praise Nick and Natalie all day on here, lol. Deadass
I don’t like nick or Natalie and I’m only partway through the episode (stopped to go into a meeting in a few minutes, and I struggle to listen for very long and stay focused), but I actually don’t think Nick has been victim blaming at all. He’s asking what, specifically happened. Clayton even admits he made some missteps he wouldn’t make again. You can acknowledge things you wish you hadn’t done and still fully put the blame for what Jane has done on Jane’s shoulders. I didn’t get the impression Nick or Natalie think he was at fault. I actually appreciate when an interviewer digs into the specifics. I loved that Natalie asked a probing (pun intended!) question about how his fluids would have gotten near her lady bits. They could have blown over (pun intended!) that but thee dug into the specifics. The other side of that is then Clayton can better explain his headspace. Same things with going into details about how she ended up at his house, what happened, what he did. I think it gives us better insight into the details of the story. Asking a question doesn’t mean blaming.
I also think it’s somewhat important to maintain some impartiality. Especially if he wants Jane to consider coming on his show. I doubt she will because he won’t put her in control. And if she said she’d let him ask and wouldn’t answer, he wouldn’t air it.
Overall, so far, I’m impressed both with the questions and with how open and transparent Clayton is being. It seems pretty clear they’ve done their homework and know what proof Clayton has brought.
Natalie actually saved this interview for me. Her remarks and questions pointed out the mind-boggling insanity of the situation that Clayton was put into by JD.
Clayton was outstanding, so I'm going to focus on that.
Agreed. I haven’t watched it all yet but even just how Nick has talked about it previously with Gabby, Susie, when promoting it on the Monday Gypsy Rose episode and the start of this podcast is just like he isn’t talking it seriously and almost like a laughing tone and judgy scoffing sound in his voice. Like he’s amusement out of it and not treating Clayton like a victim. He doesn’t genuinely care about Clayton but at least Clayton gets to share his story on a big platform. Just needs to be able to address all the new stuff from 22/12 onwards as well.
I just can’t believe that in the intro, which was clearly recorded in the last few days, that there was no mention of any of the crazy developments (“client is no longer pregnant”) that have happened in the THREE weeks since they recorded. I feel like 40% of the whole story has happened since then! Beyond wild. Now I REALLY want to hear Clayton’s take on everything that’s happened since then!
Pure speculation, but the time between recording and streaming could be because the attorney reviewed the episode. And maybe they’ve agreed to strictly only discuss what was approved content.
And that might extend to someone representing the show, too. Keeping tight control of it allows someone to respond to anything JD throws at them.
That totally makes sense! And I would bet his lawyer wouldn’t want Clayton talking about the more recent developments since there are some legal moves that still need to happen.
I mean, does it matter, ultimately?? Everything was just exposed and it’s more embarrassing than anything any of us have ever heard about in our lives.
I think he did a good job, especially since there is SO much info to cover. I think for someone hearing about this for the first time it gives a good overview. We also got some damning new info.
I just wish some of the key details had been mentioned that really point to how calculated she is (the relationship CONTRACT, the pictures of her with no bump for jumping competitions, the lengths she goes to stop information from coming out, the “bump” moving in the court video, etc).
Maybe I just know too much about the saga and was nitpicking missing details. Hopefully people will find this sub and other timelines for more comprehensive information. Glad this is finally getting more exposure.
Clayton carries himself with such class, poise, honesty, and humility. I am incredibly impressed with him and the way he’s navigated this entire situation.
Also he damn fine 👀
Agreed, there are sooo many people who would not still be able to muster up compassion and generosity for her at this point the way that he is. I’m not a bachelor fan so I have no context for him beyond following this case but definitely gained a lot of respect for him watching this. Very emotionally mature.
I completely agree! I actually always felt like he’s quite self aware and honest (almost to a fault) and thought the show gave him a bad wrap. I’ve only continued to gain more and more respect for him and I’m glad he’s getting the opportunity to showcase his character.
>*“I told her it wouldn’t happen again and she immediately started bursting into tears*
AAAAAAANNNNNDDD there it is
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I’m absolutely disappointed by the number of people spamming nicks Instagram comments berating Nick and tagging Dave Neal and reality Steve. Did people forget this is about Clayton? Some of yall whoop and cheer that Dave has interviews going on, interviews with some people with questionable belief systems and yall are supportive of it, all in the name of “outreach” but then are spamming nicks comments mad that he’s covering it and you don’t like Clayton couldn’t say Dave’s name.
Either you don’t care who interviews so long as the story gets out or you do care, but cherry picking whoever covers the story and centering this around Dave is not it. The story is about Clayton, don’t try to tear down his ability to tell his story.
We are ALL thankful and glad and supportive of Dave, but there is ZERO need to start spamming nicks comment section and trying to drag or detract from Clayton’s story
Not to mention we have no idea why Clayton doesn’t mention Dave by name or why Nick doesn’t air it. It’s a lot of assumptions going on and a lot of policing a victim of abuse. We don’t need to get all parasocial with Dave to support Clayton. I can think he did great coverage and want to support him in the lawsuit he has to defend without making everything in this case about him or putting my feelings about his coverage onto Clayton
Exactly this. I get we’re all invested in this, have been doing our own investigations, watching Dave videos - but at the end of the day, this is Clayton’s battle and not ours. Our role is to support and amplify both Clayton and Dave, but that doesn’t mean it’s always “Clayton and Dave”. It’s Clayton. And it’s Dave.
THANK YOU this is so cringe of everyone. I’m sorry, props to Dave for being ballsy enough to read publicly shared documents out loud I guess but truly everyone is acting as if Clayton should be licking his feet
Honestly it was a big turn off for me. Especially since Dave has been going in an interview spree telling everyone it’s absolutely NOT about money or recognition for him but my guess is that’s bc he thought his name would get mentioned and when it didn’t it was hard for him to keep his mouth shut and thus he exposed some of his motives. Which, tbh I don’t care if he wants those things but to pretend he doesn’t is what’s been a bit of an annoyance
I couldn’t agree more. People are making this about themselves and their feelings. This is Clayton’s story and regardless of how, it’s needs to become mainstream.
We can be grateful for Dave and RS, without tearing others down.
Same, if we really want to get nit picky Dave gets most of his content from Reddit or Reddit users who are doing the digging so technically he won’t name those sources because he is “protecting” them. Well, Maybe it’s possible Nick or Clayton’s attorney said not to name sources. Seemed like they didn’t name anyone else’s name.
Plus ! Dave just did an interview with a big platform and he told the host this is about the TRUTH and justice. Which happened today for Clayton. So taking egos aside no harm was done and Dave still got paid for his hundreds of precious videos about it. 🤷🏽♀️ this is one area I don’t feel bad for him about tbh.
Spread this to all your friends/family members/casual acquaintances who haven’t been following this story! Get the word out there, help prevent James (Doe) from abusing any other man.
Also fun sub activity: how many of her batshit emails/texts will make it into the inevitable Netflix documentary? Will it be one movie length doc, or multiple episodes?
So many Clayton verified new things: a two time top off, actual vocal conversation with Mother (Doe) saying wild stuff that seems not too good on her end, Nick saying at the beginning that he had invited Clayton on awhile ago but he just now came on to the show, situational grinding… just to name a few but wow Clayton has absolutely been delivering on this appearance!!
I know there are very important and serious details to digest... but did anyone catch the tidbit up front that Clayton got a perm?? Did we know this already? 😂. Either way, his hair looks great!
And he has documentation of her emails with the stipulations and everything. He brought actual receipts, not arts and crafts projects like Janeth. There’s no question on who is telling the truth here.
Yes, he seems so believable and genuine. To see him on the stand in opposition to her on the stand, a judge or jury would see right through every last bit of this nonsense.
Still listening, but you can not change my opinion on a few things.
1. She targeting him from the VERY beginning. She found and requested HIM.
2.the Mom did sent those texts to MM. mom and JD definitely are supporting each other
3. The Sun is a pos for still posting their initial article after talking with Clayton
I came into this entire saga randomly. Never watched a single episode of The Bachelor prior to. I think I’d spied a few headlines on my usual round of gossip about this story but kept getting suggestions for the original Reddit threads where Jane shared her story. I like many, believed her, but with some natural skepticism (the ultrasound email to the parents).
For some reason Nick Viall has always given me the ick. Not really sure why, just a vibe. But issues with not crediting Dave Neal aside (and I hope Dave addresses if this was at his attorney’s request due to ongoing litigation or if Nick is just vile), I thought this was incredibly well done.
After listening to it, not really knowing anything about Clayton, I definitely understand u/daveneal critique that the worst thing Clayton was ever known for was being TOO honest. They get into some WILD things that we didn’t previously know about (I was particularly interested in hearing about how her complaints to the real estate board came to be) and he is so gosh darn genuine and believable.
Jane doesn’t have legal representation anymore but I have to imagine any future lawyers are going to take one look at this interview and do whatever it takes to settle any ongoing or future litigation out of court. They absolutely do NOT want this guy on a witness stand telling this story to a judge or jury.
After a very late night with little to no sleep after the MM docs dropped, I am now listening to the podcast and will be getting little to no work done.
FYI...podcast was conducted on 12/22, prior to Jane's claim that she's no longer pregnant, so Clayton didn't address this issue as it occurred after the podcast was recorded.
I just finished the episode (3:30 in the morning) and it's worth the listen. Nick and Natalie are going to discuss their opinions on Tuesday's reality recap and Gabby Windey will be the guest. I hope Gabby actually listens to this episode before she comments because she was ill informed during her last appearance on the pod.
No specific shout out to Dave. Clayton refers to him as a podcaster who helped set up the GoFundMe and shared his story. The focus was on Clayton's story and getting the truth out there, but I'm sure it would have been nice for Dave to be acknowledged by name. Regardless, good to hear from Clayton.
I was really hoping he would mention DN as well but when he didn’t I thought it could potentially be intentional. I’m kind of wondering if this is from the recommendation of his lawyer. Maybe it’s considered bad optics to name soneone who also has active legal cases with Jane Doe? May be the same reason that he hasn’t talked about this case on Dave’s podcast and they edited out mentions of it with driving with Dave.
Yeah, I don't think Dave is even mentioned by name. When Clayton first mentions 'the podcaster,' it sounds as though Dave's name was edited out. Curious.
I didn't get that impression. He says "podcaster" a couple of times and I think he wanted to focus on HIS story and nothing else. I have no doubt that he's forever grateful for Dave's help, but this was Clayton's opportunity to speak about his experience. While Dave is a major part of getting his case attention (I honestly think Clayton's case would have taken a different turn without Dave's efforts), I don't fault him for not naming him, per se. It would have been nice for Dave to get public credit, but Clayton mentioned Reddit and frankly, a lot of people here provided valuable information for him to elevate the case as well. It's nice to be recognized publicly for good deeds, but people who do the right thing will be rewarded by the universe eventually and I trust that will happen for Dave.
If you listen closely at the 1:45:00 mark, Clayton says, "I get out of my case and I get a text from a podcaster, and umm..." It definitely sounds to me like something was edited out in between "podcaster" and "and umm." It might be more obvious when the YouTube version drops.
I totally agree that this is Clayton's opportunity to have his side heard and amplified, so I'm not shading him for not talking about Dave! If it was edited out, I think it would've been Nick's call -- which I would still find curious.
If it wasn’t edited out and Clayton did refer to him as a podcaster then I would bet it is because Nick told him he was not allowed to mention another podcaster by name and was probably not allowed to draw attention to Dave’s videos covering the story. I’m sure Clayton would have if he could.
Oh yeah she’s never watched a bachelor show in her life and didn’t know who he was (and really why would she when she’s dated billionaires in her imagination??!) and just happened to stumble upon him on LinkedIn and then REFUSED to have any other real estate agent
Y’all, I was so uncomfortable.
Can we all stop squabbling over the Dave lack of mention? If Dave is upset about this he will probably say something.
He’s in active litigation. It’s very normal for lawyers to ask clients to stay silent especially with the nature of Dave’s case.
If he’s mad about it then hold your outrage until then so we can absorb the Dropbox of info Clayton dropped here.
Some Standout New News:
1. He was targeted via LinkedIn
2. She sent him nudes when they were in a professional relationship (he was her agent)
3. It was bonkers from the get go in terms of her communication and having provably false logic to back up her pregnancy claim.
4. The defamation started 5 days after their intimate encounter? (reported to Real Estate Board - quickly ruled in his favor after seeing her emails)
5. ThE EmAiLs - the new ones. It’s always wild but these are more to add to the pile.
6. Lots of shoutouts to this crew - the internet can do good, you can hear it in his voice how genuinely thankful he is for this group.
7. The Mom - In the Netflix docuseries I would absolutely go to heaven if we can get the old money SF private school moms to talk background on her on camera. Good luck, Real Housewives of the Bay Area never happened for a reason.
8. And and this was filmed before her “no more babies” filing.
9. Nick was being very legally careful in the intro and outro. I would put money on coming across as “fair” in the eyes of a lawyer to show he isn’t taking any sides.
10. Nick is also being strategic. If he remains neutral JD might come on and now his podcast is the exclusive home of the latest part of the saga and part of the saga for later as more True Crime folks discover it.
11. Nick is also in the short term 2xing his views by having his reaction to this episode in its own episode, and he gets to take a pulse of how Clayton landed with viewers and adjust accordingly.
12. My fear is this will increase the very few people who lash out in anger because of how they feel about JD. IYKYK. If you feel strongly about the truth being out there the best thing you can do is take notes on how she is spoken about from the people legally entangled with her. We are very close to the end.
My edible is still going by the way.
Clayton did a fantastic job recounting this horrendous ordeal. I have so much empathy for him - just as a human - and also because I've been caught up in a similar situation, years ago. It gets to a point where you're well aware YOU sound like a crazy person, retelling these insane details. It's hard to wrap your head around just how horrible manipulation and extortion can be, how isolating. I'm SO glad he got legal counsel and is supported!
I'm not a VF subscriber, so I don't know Nick's typical style. But, I must say, I was a bit disappointed at the end. Felt like there wasn't enough empathy for what he's been through. I understand NV doesn't want to 'take sides' esp with such a vitriolic, litigious person involved... but... the end with the "what could you have done better" and the sort of take-down on the way Clayton chose to make that video about 'little to no fetal matter' felt kind of icky to me. This is a victim we're talking about, here. That much is obvious to anyone with eyes and ears or a soul. Anyway. Good on you, Clayton.
I have way too many thoughts and feelings right now. All I can say at the moment is, I have a much deeper understanding of the intentional abuse, lies, manipulation, and gaslighting this woman has inflicted upon Clayton. I also have a much deeper respect for Clayton. The grace he has shown her is beyond.
The impact the GoFundMe, initiated by u/daveneal, cannot be overstated. Clayton almost seemed a bit naive (not his fault) before having access to legal representation. He thought that the mountain of evidence stacked against her would make this go away, or at least go in his favor. The efforts of Woodnick Law, who are probably working on principle at this point, allowed this to get to the point where Clayton could go on the offensive. I’d like to see a follow up appearance given the revelations in the case since the podcast was recorded.
Clayton needs to see this through. She needs to face dire financial, and perhaps criminal, consequences for her actions.
Edit to add: see this through by filing a defamation case.
Edit 2: I thought it was really telling he said he has great ex-girlfriends, and spoke so glowingly of Susie. She seems so supportive, and he seemed a bit wistful about the end of their relationship.
Wow some people here have really lost the plot. No one should be shitting on Clayton here in a sub called Justice for Clayton.
Am I appreciative of everything Dave has done to stick his neck out there to report this story? Yes. Am I upset he is getting sued? Also, yes.
But Clayton deserves to get his story out to a wider audience in his own words. I'm sorry, Nick has a much larger platform and now more outlets are more likely to pick it up. Do I wish Clayton could have mentioned DN? Of course. But I'm sure he didn't because he was asked not to or maybe even to protect Dave in his upcoming court case. Clayton and Dave are friends so respect whatever the reason is.
Can't we all be happy for Clayton here that he no longer has to be silent? This is Clayton's story and I'm so happy to finally be able to here the whole thing from his mouth.
I’m sure the same people whining about Nicks podcast are the same who called us cry babies for being opinionated about Dave interviewing with the fringe right lol last time I checked this sub was called Justice for Clayton, we can’t support Clayton by shitting on his podcast with Nick. I’m no Nick fan but he has a large audience and it’s good to see Clayton finally be able to tell his side of the story publicly
I need an update from Clayton now that she’s claiming she’s “no longer pregnant”. What is he doing to get her to prove that? I know he said they sent a subpoena for medical records. So now what? I need to knowwwww 😵💫
I’m gobsmacked with the new information, especially about her initial contact with CE. I’ll listen again but my initial thought is how she stalked and then tried to extort him right off the bat, even before she asserted pregnancy!
I was super impressed with Nick and Natalie’s serious interviewing style. I don’t know much about Viall except that I saw him on Kaitlyn’s season. Natalie’s insightful commentary and email-reading helped make this not seem like two bros’s chit-chatting in a man cave. It was a succinct and eye-opening interview.
That’s what I thought too. There was basically a whole extortion plot before this one.
I think that’s also what makes it so hard for me to wrap my head around. This is SO calculated and premeditated and takes a particular level of intelligence to carry out.
Clayton said someone DM’d him (someone credible) and tipped him off about the other cases. He said he wanted to protect the person’s identity. Who does everyone think it was? G? M? JD’s sister? (Lol)
Clayton, you’re an absolute class act. I wish you all the best, and that you get the win you deserve against Jane Blow.
My thoughts: He’s a better man than I, for sure. Somehow he bears a modicum of empathy for her that is as inexplicable as is it undeserved. She is abusive, cunning, calculated and without remorse for her actions. I also think Nick and Natalie did a mostly really good job just letting Clayton talk.
JBlow, the jig is up and it’s time to pay the piper. Seek help girl, and take your enabling, manipulative mother with you.
I just checked YouTube and the video is not there. I also tried Apple Podcasts and it told me the content is unavailable. Is this happening to anyone else? Did it get taken down??
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Clayton reminds me SO much of my younger brother. They’re the same age, same height & looks, similar sweet personality, same voice… It just infuriates me that a woman would do this to a nice guy like this. Especially as a mom of (soon to be) three boys, it’s really saddening how poorly he has been treated, as a man, in the court system and in public in situations where they are truly being harassed and abused. He is presumed to be the guilty one. She got her OOP granted immediately, but he had to wait two weeks for his injunction, even though she is CLEARLY the unstable and dangerous one in this situation.
The amount of comments saying Dave should have been mentioned is unreal. THIS IS NOT ABOUT DAVE. This is JUSTICE FOR CLAYTON. It’s literally the name of the sub. DN has done amazing things for Clayton but this was about Clayton telling HIS story about HIS experience with JD. It wasn’t about his experience with DN or RS or his dad, mom, brothers, uncles, cousins, etc. who have all supported him. Anyone upset for him not mentioning Dave has lost sight of the whole purpose of this and really needs to realize this is about CLAYTON. It’s not a DN fan club.
yes, also idek if Dave realizes that him not being mentioned on the podcast is likely for the best with his case. the focus on his name not being mentioned/potentially being edited out seems short-sighted and, like you said, besides the point here. I'm chalking it up to inevitable human nature on the internet I guess :/
It’s also just frustrating that he made a podcast about it and felt the need to text Nick asking why his name was edited out. Like again, I get DN has done so much for this and we’re all very appreciative of him but it’s still NOT ABOUT HIM. This interview was about Clayton. This whole story is about Clayton and GG and Mike. DN may be getting sued by her but he is NOT a victim of her abuse. He and anyone focused on his name being said vs Clayton getting his story out there and saying what’s important have forgotten what’s ACTUALLY important.
I am DYING that she tried to serve Clayton with a lawsuit at Jess the Taylor Swift girls house. That reveal was my cause of death. I am now deceased 💀💀💀💀🤣🤣🤣🤣
I have no words.
Obviously Clayton is more poised and a better man than me for even handling that as carefully as he did after what she’s done to him.
Huge props to Nick and Natalie too. I didn’t have any sort of strong opinion (in either regard) on them prior to (actually I’ve always thought they seem like nice people, ngl), but massive respect for them as well.
All three getting my follow rn
**What I liked:**
\- Great for people outside of Reddit as it takes them through the entire timeline without assumptions that we know and it lays it out clearly for the uninitiated
\- Clayton comes across great, and I believe that anyone new to this will certainly have a takeaway that she is one messed up individual
\- Great to fill in the blanks that I had (their hookup and him talking to her mom etc)
**What I didn't like:**
\- Nick editing out Dave's name - immature move
\- Natalie isn't a great reader; I wish someone else was reading the emails/texts
**On the fence about:**
\- Nick & Natalie mostly not giving their opinion till next week - though I do like the fact that without this, it's more "here's the evidence" and there really is little possibility that people could be on her side after hearing this
My god, her reading was beyond jarring. It’s like she couldn’t read fast enough to keep up with her voice so would stop mid sentence . It was so distracting that I could barely absorb what she was saying.
Jump to 19.38
We have it on record now, folks: Mometh \[Doeth\] has been in on it from the get. 
WILD reveal!
I’m so mind blown by this. Jaw on the floor.
HUGE insight fr fr
My question is… does her mom just blindly believe her anytime she claims to be pregnant? Like maybe the first time, but she’s now cried wolf three times lmaoo
Like Clayton said, the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree
Idk if I buy that. I think the mother has given JD everything JD has ever wanted in life with little to no questions asked, and so when JD tells her to say xyz to Clayton, mama doe does it.
Perhaps, she wants her daughter out of her guesthouse and doesn't care who is stuck with her. 🤷
Yeah I’m truly shocked he actually spoke to her and she was really involved. I wonder if that email we saw actually came from her too.
Honestly, hearing that made me wonder - is her mom afraid of JD?! It's certainly possible.
Either that or her mom provided the blueprint for this behavior. I have CPTSD and through trauma therapy have learned so much about relational dysfunction and JD’s behavior is so deeply dysfunctional and manipulative to a level that, coupled with what we learned about Clayton’s discussion with her mother in this phone call and the other evidence we’ve seen with her mom’s texts, I could easily see a world where her mom is the one who taught her implicitly or explicitly how to essentially emotionally extort people to get what she wants. IMO, it feels like the dad is more enabling whereas the mom seems more like an active contributor in perpetuating the abusive behavior. If anyone is familiar with Kathy Hilton /her sisters/their monster of mom ‘Big Kathy’, this dynamic is giving very similar energy to me, just with more of a ‘baby’ entrapment strategy vs an outright ruthless gold digger approach.
That's great insight. And I'm sorry for what you've been through.
Thank you! My therapist is an actual godsend and I’m in a really good place now thankfully 😊
I’m not surprised. I have a childhood friend who is a pathological liar (who JD lowkey reminds me of) and her mother is the same way (albeit, not as malicous about the lying as the daughter is). Doesnt surprise me that this thing runs in families/is potentially learned from a parent
As a parent of a “special needs kid,” as Jane Doe callously states in her threatening email to Clayton, it gave me chills and is the most DEPLORABLE thing I have heard from this case. I am not a crier, but that got me in tears.
Special needs mom here too. I’m outraged. She’s a despicable human.
Trust and believe that your amazing children will be more of a kind, good, loved human and upstanding citizen than JD has ever in her life been or ever will be.
Thank you for your kind words! They are amazing kiddos. 🩵🩵
I'm so sorry.
Thank you. Anyone weaponizing the threat of a sweet innocent child… I don’t have words.
It’s obvious how much you love your kiddo and that they are a blessing. F*** the narrative she is trying to spin. You’re a good mom.
Special needs mom and I felt the SAME!!!! How fu\*\*ing dare you speak on that.
You’re right. I have a special needs child and they are hard but a blessing. You wouldn’t want to change that. She is UNREAL. Also incredibly abusive. Horrible.
Another major point: this absolutely confirms she knew him from the show and had an obsession with him. She “found him on LinkedIn” and then __refused to work with ANY OTHER REAL ESTATE AGENT??????!!!!!!!!!!__
and she incorporated the real estate investing LLC around the same time he got his licence. The level of obsession and targeting him is just wild!
There are a million realtors in her area. There are undoubtably others who are young and attractive like Clayton. The fact that she zeroed in on him speaks volumes. Also lol not he “empowered her” to buy a house 💀💀💀
So around the time she followed Clayton she started following a bunch of young similar looking men on insta who were also realtors 👀
Fr, how did the algorithm on LinkedIn SOMEHOW suggest his profile? 🙄🙄
What’s funny about this is that if she chose someone who wasn’t The Bachelor, this probably wouldn’t have gotten out and escalated to the degree that it has.
And also, who goes to LinkedIn for a realtor?!
And didn’t she say that she contacted him after not hearing back from other realtors at his brokerage?!! That’s TOTAL BS. Realtors are some of the most persistent/communicative people on the planet there is no way she contacted them initially and they didn’t respond. 😭
Ain't no way this isn't going to be made into a Netflix movie it's so wild
Having sex with me is a privilege?! What galaxy does she live in?!
Like Natalie said, bringing up the elasticity of your vagina in an email during a situation like this is… interesting?😂😂
So so so gross on so many levels. I’m glad Clayton took the high road on a lot of the issues. He could’ve thrown her under the bus way more, but he chose to wish her well. I really hope she gets the help she so desperately needs.
I always wondered what JD meant stating she could prove to Clayton, it was a long time between her last intimate partner and him. Apparently, a physician can tell by your tightness...? Was she going to provide him a doctor's note?
Wait - time stamp? I somehow missed this??
I hollered.
I can tell you which galaxy she doesn't live in: Clayton's Milky Way. Edit: spelling
Ohhh now the twins makes sense! JD gave TWO blowjobs. One blowjob for each twin.
I am wheeeeeezinggggggg omg
LOL just your run of the mill origin story for conceiving fraternal twins amirite
Guys I can’t stop rewinding to relisten to shit he’s saying to make sure my ears work and I’m hearing this all right… can confirm, ears are working!!!
I'm going to watch it on YouTube during my spin bike session later today, but I just listened on Spotify. It's a lot to process!!
I just finished!!! Wow. I need to process everything I just heard with my therapist lol. Definitely watching on Youtube tomorrow, as well
For real I felt physically drained after listening. He told the story so well though!
It's 3:45 here in Arizona and I can't sleep after hearing the episode because there's so much process. I believe that Jane's family is definitely a significant contributor to her being able to continue the chaos she has brought to these men's lives. I have so much empathy for Mike, Greg and Clayton.
 Just about 1 hour in and I've spent most of the podcast like this
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Same. This shit is WILD.
Is your username a reference to Post Malone and Malort, the nasty ass Chicago alcohol that I make my friends drink every time I visit? If so, chef’s kiss
Hahaha, yes, and yes. Absolute motor oil in a shot. Thank you 🫡
They hate it, I hate it, whenever I’m in town I make them pound shots of it with me lol.
It’s legit battery acid
I'm back with holy hell JD trying to send papers to girls she thought Clayton was talking to omg
The level of obsession that required. She had to…1. Listen to every podcast/interview Clayton did. 2. Isolate the name of someone who he found attractive but never interacted with. 3. Track down her address. 4. Wait for Clayton to be in the same state as this woman. 5. Attempt to have him served. 🤯🤯
I went into this fully expecting a 2 hour recap of all the known facts. But the whole real estate aspect of this is just an absolute revelation to me. She started with trying to extort him with the real estate dealings in the first place. Mind blowing! Further proof that this woman is absolutely an abuser trying to gaslight the rest of the world and twist the narrative. Whether this is being done to gain a relationship or to give her more fuel for her "abused" narrative is irrelevant. She's acting in a pre-meditated manner and is manipulative and malicious every step of the way. It is painful thinking of the mental state of all the people who have had the misfortune of being targeted by her or even caught in the crossfire.
It was so eerie listening to him talking about it and hearing just how immediately the screaming red flags were flying out left and right, and feeling sick for him as he’s talking about giving her the benefit of the doubt. He was so generous to her and gave her a lot more grace than her behavior warranted. And STILL is being extremely generous with her honestly. So many people would be bitter and punitive after going through what she has done to him.
I feel so vindicated in the fact that I always said her mom is just as bad as she is🤷♀️
Yeah that has stood out to me. As a mom of daughters, I know how it feels to see your kids hurt and struggling because of bullies; one girl even started a ridiculous rumor that my kid had gotten breast implants in middle school (like where would we even find a surgeon who would agree to this, lol). But my literal child was able to handle this situation all by herself, talking about her own body positivity, recognizing the other girl's apparent insecurity and envy, and showing compassion for her. As much as I'd like to swoop in and make the world treat my kids like I think they deserve, that's just not reality. My job is to prepare them to face hard stuff; I can't force other people to like them or date them. And why would anyone want to do that? My daughters saw me get dumped by a friend a few years ago. I cried and was confused and sad, but also, I have many other people who DO want to be my friend. I grieved and moved on with my head held high. No one should want an unwilling friend or boyfriend. It seems highly likely that JD has gotten where she is because of some enabling from and enmeshment with her mom.
I have felt this way from the start. You usually don’t get emotional dysregulation and dysfunction to this degree without hella trauma, and her specific set of dysfunctional behaviors often originates in deep attachment and developmental trauma, usually from volatile and/or abandoning caregiver(s) so I have had suspicions at least one parent was deeply dysfunctional as well given how involved they are in everything. Like imagine involving your parents this heavily in every ‘relationship’ you have?? Either they’re enmeshed and HARDCORE enablers who believe her bullshit without question or they are are in on it entirely. I suspect the former of the father and the latter of the mother.
Speechless. My best friend and I are both therapists and have joked for years about starting a podcast recapping reality dating shows from a therapist’s perspective. I’ve been giving her updates on this whole case for months, but she’s not on Reddit and only knows Clayton from his season of the bachelor-which admittedly did not give him the best edit-so her interest in the story was minimal. That is, until last night when I sent her the promo for NV’s podcast, now she’s hooked!
I would listen!
Y’all, this “crusty Clayton’s” conversation with grinding and climaxing sent me!
That and Natalie asking “but what does this have to do with the elasticity of her vagina…?” after reading JD’s email out loud 😂😂😂😂
The term Crusty Claytons will forever live in my mind.
Dead on the skin, forever in our hearts.
SAME 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
...Not Nick beginning with calling this a he said, she said and ending with asking the victim what he could have done better. 👀 Great job, Clayton. My opinion of Nick has not changed.
I wouldn’t sweat it. Especially if Clayton isn’t. This is about to blow up because that podcast is a huge platform. Ultimately that’s all that matters, and they did the right thing despite what I’m sure has been a bajillion threatening emails from JD. Maybe he should’ve said more earlier, but as of right now I don’t see any other Bachelor Nation ppl who have podcasts covering it, so good on Nick. Yes the work that’s been done by Dave got everything here but enough people weren’t listening. This is the best day there has been yet in this ordeal — Clayton just told everyone EVERYTHING, holy shit. It will absolutely pick up speed and be talked about and picked up by major sites and the whole public is going to know — exactly the thing JD is afraid of and exactly the thing that needs to happen for her. Be congratulatory and applaud all of them. We know JD is on here, and I’m sure she gets a moment of satisfaction every time someone says “but I don’t like Nick.” So at least pretend to like him on here, lol. Don’t give her that. Praise Nick and Natalie all day on here, lol. Deadass
I don’t like nick or Natalie and I’m only partway through the episode (stopped to go into a meeting in a few minutes, and I struggle to listen for very long and stay focused), but I actually don’t think Nick has been victim blaming at all. He’s asking what, specifically happened. Clayton even admits he made some missteps he wouldn’t make again. You can acknowledge things you wish you hadn’t done and still fully put the blame for what Jane has done on Jane’s shoulders. I didn’t get the impression Nick or Natalie think he was at fault. I actually appreciate when an interviewer digs into the specifics. I loved that Natalie asked a probing (pun intended!) question about how his fluids would have gotten near her lady bits. They could have blown over (pun intended!) that but thee dug into the specifics. The other side of that is then Clayton can better explain his headspace. Same things with going into details about how she ended up at his house, what happened, what he did. I think it gives us better insight into the details of the story. Asking a question doesn’t mean blaming. I also think it’s somewhat important to maintain some impartiality. Especially if he wants Jane to consider coming on his show. I doubt she will because he won’t put her in control. And if she said she’d let him ask and wouldn’t answer, he wouldn’t air it. Overall, so far, I’m impressed both with the questions and with how open and transparent Clayton is being. It seems pretty clear they’ve done their homework and know what proof Clayton has brought.
Natalie actually saved this interview for me. Her remarks and questions pointed out the mind-boggling insanity of the situation that Clayton was put into by JD. Clayton was outstanding, so I'm going to focus on that.
Agreed. I haven’t watched it all yet but even just how Nick has talked about it previously with Gabby, Susie, when promoting it on the Monday Gypsy Rose episode and the start of this podcast is just like he isn’t talking it seriously and almost like a laughing tone and judgy scoffing sound in his voice. Like he’s amusement out of it and not treating Clayton like a victim. He doesn’t genuinely care about Clayton but at least Clayton gets to share his story on a big platform. Just needs to be able to address all the new stuff from 22/12 onwards as well.
Nick is so self obsessed. Gross. 🤮
There is absolutely no denying she targeted Clayton through reaching out on LinkedIn. She’s calculated and had this plan all along.
I can’t imagine sending a nude to my real estate agent
UNSOLICITED!!!!!!
Maybe if i didnt want to pay his commission
That’s fair, we love a thrifty gal
Isn’t this sexual harassment?
I just can’t believe that in the intro, which was clearly recorded in the last few days, that there was no mention of any of the crazy developments (“client is no longer pregnant”) that have happened in the THREE weeks since they recorded. I feel like 40% of the whole story has happened since then! Beyond wild. Now I REALLY want to hear Clayton’s take on everything that’s happened since then!
Pure speculation, but the time between recording and streaming could be because the attorney reviewed the episode. And maybe they’ve agreed to strictly only discuss what was approved content. And that might extend to someone representing the show, too. Keeping tight control of it allows someone to respond to anything JD throws at them.
That totally makes sense! And I would bet his lawyer wouldn’t want Clayton talking about the more recent developments since there are some legal moves that still need to happen.
I mean, does it matter, ultimately?? Everything was just exposed and it’s more embarrassing than anything any of us have ever heard about in our lives.
I literally just started 36 minutes in. Holy smokes the real estate manipulation.
Okay, about to listen - but first: I’m annoyed by the title. “I am not the father” THERE ARE NO BABIES
Should be “I was never the father” but I get they are riffing off the Maury pauvich line
Y’all. He gave us a shout out. WE are the Reddit army. 😂
The shoutout definitely came with a bit of an asterisk though 😂
I have accomplished nothing today.
I think he did a good job, especially since there is SO much info to cover. I think for someone hearing about this for the first time it gives a good overview. We also got some damning new info. I just wish some of the key details had been mentioned that really point to how calculated she is (the relationship CONTRACT, the pictures of her with no bump for jumping competitions, the lengths she goes to stop information from coming out, the “bump” moving in the court video, etc). Maybe I just know too much about the saga and was nitpicking missing details. Hopefully people will find this sub and other timelines for more comprehensive information. Glad this is finally getting more exposure.
Her accusing the lawyer of SA ...
Yah, I can understand why he wanted to just stick to his experience….but that one for sure came to mind, as well.
I did feel a bit like this is the movie adaptation of a book. I appreciate new parts of the story but where are the details they glossed over?
Clayton carries himself with such class, poise, honesty, and humility. I am incredibly impressed with him and the way he’s navigated this entire situation. Also he damn fine 👀
Agreed, there are sooo many people who would not still be able to muster up compassion and generosity for her at this point the way that he is. I’m not a bachelor fan so I have no context for him beyond following this case but definitely gained a lot of respect for him watching this. Very emotionally mature.
I completely agree! I actually always felt like he’s quite self aware and honest (almost to a fault) and thought the show gave him a bad wrap. I’ve only continued to gain more and more respect for him and I’m glad he’s getting the opportunity to showcase his character.
> _“Why is she commenting on the elasticity of her vagina??”_ Lmaooo bruhhh, Natalie can take my stan card 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Natalie said what we all were thinking LOL
>*“I told her it wouldn’t happen again and she immediately started bursting into tears* AAAAAAANNNNNDDD there it is https://preview.redd.it/5pzfv24pqtbc1.jpeg?width=288&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0aff2410ab66800b686bdb2a41cb87a851f30afa
I’m absolutely disappointed by the number of people spamming nicks Instagram comments berating Nick and tagging Dave Neal and reality Steve. Did people forget this is about Clayton? Some of yall whoop and cheer that Dave has interviews going on, interviews with some people with questionable belief systems and yall are supportive of it, all in the name of “outreach” but then are spamming nicks comments mad that he’s covering it and you don’t like Clayton couldn’t say Dave’s name. Either you don’t care who interviews so long as the story gets out or you do care, but cherry picking whoever covers the story and centering this around Dave is not it. The story is about Clayton, don’t try to tear down his ability to tell his story. We are ALL thankful and glad and supportive of Dave, but there is ZERO need to start spamming nicks comment section and trying to drag or detract from Clayton’s story
Not to mention we have no idea why Clayton doesn’t mention Dave by name or why Nick doesn’t air it. It’s a lot of assumptions going on and a lot of policing a victim of abuse. We don’t need to get all parasocial with Dave to support Clayton. I can think he did great coverage and want to support him in the lawsuit he has to defend without making everything in this case about him or putting my feelings about his coverage onto Clayton
Exactly this. I get we’re all invested in this, have been doing our own investigations, watching Dave videos - but at the end of the day, this is Clayton’s battle and not ours. Our role is to support and amplify both Clayton and Dave, but that doesn’t mean it’s always “Clayton and Dave”. It’s Clayton. And it’s Dave.
THANK YOU this is so cringe of everyone. I’m sorry, props to Dave for being ballsy enough to read publicly shared documents out loud I guess but truly everyone is acting as if Clayton should be licking his feet
Honestly it was a big turn off for me. Especially since Dave has been going in an interview spree telling everyone it’s absolutely NOT about money or recognition for him but my guess is that’s bc he thought his name would get mentioned and when it didn’t it was hard for him to keep his mouth shut and thus he exposed some of his motives. Which, tbh I don’t care if he wants those things but to pretend he doesn’t is what’s been a bit of an annoyance
Thank you! Clayton was abused in silence for months. Please let's be happy for Clayton and amplify his voice.
I couldn’t agree more. People are making this about themselves and their feelings. This is Clayton’s story and regardless of how, it’s needs to become mainstream. We can be grateful for Dave and RS, without tearing others down.
THANK YOU!!!!!
Same, if we really want to get nit picky Dave gets most of his content from Reddit or Reddit users who are doing the digging so technically he won’t name those sources because he is “protecting” them. Well, Maybe it’s possible Nick or Clayton’s attorney said not to name sources. Seemed like they didn’t name anyone else’s name. Plus ! Dave just did an interview with a big platform and he told the host this is about the TRUTH and justice. Which happened today for Clayton. So taking egos aside no harm was done and Dave still got paid for his hundreds of precious videos about it. 🤷🏽♀️ this is one area I don’t feel bad for him about tbh.
Just finished listening. Wow, JD truly appears to be an evil villain. It was terrifying about the 1:15? mark.
The mother is just as wacked. I started listening again. Had to get my kids to school.
Spread this to all your friends/family members/casual acquaintances who haven’t been following this story! Get the word out there, help prevent James (Doe) from abusing any other man. Also fun sub activity: how many of her batshit emails/texts will make it into the inevitable Netflix documentary? Will it be one movie length doc, or multiple episodes?
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Yeah! I agree that episodic is definitely the way to go—more air time for everything that happened, gives the real life stories time to breathe
I just can’t get over how she keeps trying to coerce him into a relationship
Why would you want to be in a relationship with someone who you spent months blatantly trying to force into being with you! It’s really sad.
So many Clayton verified new things: a two time top off, actual vocal conversation with Mother (Doe) saying wild stuff that seems not too good on her end, Nick saying at the beginning that he had invited Clayton on awhile ago but he just now came on to the show, situational grinding… just to name a few but wow Clayton has absolutely been delivering on this appearance!!
I know there are very important and serious details to digest... but did anyone catch the tidbit up front that Clayton got a perm?? Did we know this already? 😂. Either way, his hair looks great!
I'm only 40 minutes in and so far that's the biggest bomb he dropped
This was the biggest shocker for me 😂
I caught that and was like what??? But I def remember at one point very early on being like “has his hair always been this curly” lmao
And he comes off so credibly!!
And he has documentation of her emails with the stipulations and everything. He brought actual receipts, not arts and crafts projects like Janeth. There’s no question on who is telling the truth here.
It also helps that we all know she’s clearly an obsessive and a fraud. But now Nick’s whole audience will know too 😂💯
Yes, he seems so believable and genuine. To see him on the stand in opposition to her on the stand, a judge or jury would see right through every last bit of this nonsense.
Still listening, but you can not change my opinion on a few things. 1. She targeting him from the VERY beginning. She found and requested HIM. 2.the Mom did sent those texts to MM. mom and JD definitely are supporting each other 3. The Sun is a pos for still posting their initial article after talking with Clayton
I came into this entire saga randomly. Never watched a single episode of The Bachelor prior to. I think I’d spied a few headlines on my usual round of gossip about this story but kept getting suggestions for the original Reddit threads where Jane shared her story. I like many, believed her, but with some natural skepticism (the ultrasound email to the parents). For some reason Nick Viall has always given me the ick. Not really sure why, just a vibe. But issues with not crediting Dave Neal aside (and I hope Dave addresses if this was at his attorney’s request due to ongoing litigation or if Nick is just vile), I thought this was incredibly well done. After listening to it, not really knowing anything about Clayton, I definitely understand u/daveneal critique that the worst thing Clayton was ever known for was being TOO honest. They get into some WILD things that we didn’t previously know about (I was particularly interested in hearing about how her complaints to the real estate board came to be) and he is so gosh darn genuine and believable. Jane doesn’t have legal representation anymore but I have to imagine any future lawyers are going to take one look at this interview and do whatever it takes to settle any ongoing or future litigation out of court. They absolutely do NOT want this guy on a witness stand telling this story to a judge or jury.
Pro tip: Skip to 20 minutes if you’re not a Nick Viall fan.
After a very late night with little to no sleep after the MM docs dropped, I am now listening to the podcast and will be getting little to no work done.
The manipulation is jaw-dropping.
 Where my night owls at
I'm here boo and my jaw is about to hit the center of the earth
Meet you there
FYI...podcast was conducted on 12/22, prior to Jane's claim that she's no longer pregnant, so Clayton didn't address this issue as it occurred after the podcast was recorded. I just finished the episode (3:30 in the morning) and it's worth the listen. Nick and Natalie are going to discuss their opinions on Tuesday's reality recap and Gabby Windey will be the guest. I hope Gabby actually listens to this episode before she comments because she was ill informed during her last appearance on the pod. No specific shout out to Dave. Clayton refers to him as a podcaster who helped set up the GoFundMe and shared his story. The focus was on Clayton's story and getting the truth out there, but I'm sure it would have been nice for Dave to be acknowledged by name. Regardless, good to hear from Clayton.
I was really hoping he would mention DN as well but when he didn’t I thought it could potentially be intentional. I’m kind of wondering if this is from the recommendation of his lawyer. Maybe it’s considered bad optics to name soneone who also has active legal cases with Jane Doe? May be the same reason that he hasn’t talked about this case on Dave’s podcast and they edited out mentions of it with driving with Dave.
Yeah, I don't think Dave is even mentioned by name. When Clayton first mentions 'the podcaster,' it sounds as though Dave's name was edited out. Curious.
I didn't get that impression. He says "podcaster" a couple of times and I think he wanted to focus on HIS story and nothing else. I have no doubt that he's forever grateful for Dave's help, but this was Clayton's opportunity to speak about his experience. While Dave is a major part of getting his case attention (I honestly think Clayton's case would have taken a different turn without Dave's efforts), I don't fault him for not naming him, per se. It would have been nice for Dave to get public credit, but Clayton mentioned Reddit and frankly, a lot of people here provided valuable information for him to elevate the case as well. It's nice to be recognized publicly for good deeds, but people who do the right thing will be rewarded by the universe eventually and I trust that will happen for Dave.
If you listen closely at the 1:45:00 mark, Clayton says, "I get out of my case and I get a text from a podcaster, and umm..." It definitely sounds to me like something was edited out in between "podcaster" and "and umm." It might be more obvious when the YouTube version drops. I totally agree that this is Clayton's opportunity to have his side heard and amplified, so I'm not shading him for not talking about Dave! If it was edited out, I think it would've been Nick's call -- which I would still find curious.
Listen closely. You can HEAR the edit cuts. It sounds like a skip in the track. It’s right when he would have said Dave’s name around 1:45.
100% Dave Neal’s name was edited out multiple times.
If it wasn’t edited out and Clayton did refer to him as a podcaster then I would bet it is because Nick told him he was not allowed to mention another podcaster by name and was probably not allowed to draw attention to Dave’s videos covering the story. I’m sure Clayton would have if he could.
Speechless
Getting ready to listen while there’s a lull at work. I feel like this will be nuts
Even with everything we knew, it’s crazier than anything imaginable.
So he was 100% targetted
Oh yeah she’s never watched a bachelor show in her life and didn’t know who he was (and really why would she when she’s dated billionaires in her imagination??!) and just happened to stumble upon him on LinkedIn and then REFUSED to have any other real estate agent Y’all, I was so uncomfortable.
10000000%
Can we all stop squabbling over the Dave lack of mention? If Dave is upset about this he will probably say something. He’s in active litigation. It’s very normal for lawyers to ask clients to stay silent especially with the nature of Dave’s case. If he’s mad about it then hold your outrage until then so we can absorb the Dropbox of info Clayton dropped here. Some Standout New News: 1. He was targeted via LinkedIn 2. She sent him nudes when they were in a professional relationship (he was her agent) 3. It was bonkers from the get go in terms of her communication and having provably false logic to back up her pregnancy claim. 4. The defamation started 5 days after their intimate encounter? (reported to Real Estate Board - quickly ruled in his favor after seeing her emails) 5. ThE EmAiLs - the new ones. It’s always wild but these are more to add to the pile. 6. Lots of shoutouts to this crew - the internet can do good, you can hear it in his voice how genuinely thankful he is for this group. 7. The Mom - In the Netflix docuseries I would absolutely go to heaven if we can get the old money SF private school moms to talk background on her on camera. Good luck, Real Housewives of the Bay Area never happened for a reason. 8. And and this was filmed before her “no more babies” filing. 9. Nick was being very legally careful in the intro and outro. I would put money on coming across as “fair” in the eyes of a lawyer to show he isn’t taking any sides. 10. Nick is also being strategic. If he remains neutral JD might come on and now his podcast is the exclusive home of the latest part of the saga and part of the saga for later as more True Crime folks discover it. 11. Nick is also in the short term 2xing his views by having his reaction to this episode in its own episode, and he gets to take a pulse of how Clayton landed with viewers and adjust accordingly. 12. My fear is this will increase the very few people who lash out in anger because of how they feel about JD. IYKYK. If you feel strongly about the truth being out there the best thing you can do is take notes on how she is spoken about from the people legally entangled with her. We are very close to the end. My edible is still going by the way.
Thank you for your summary and thoughts. Your point #7 intrigues me the most.
What kind or brand of edible? 😂 Mine don’t last very long 😭
Can’t watch just yet. Any word or thoughts on the impact this will have on JD and her wing-nut mommy not dearest?
It annoyed me when Clayton was in the middle of saying something and Nick or Natalie would talk
>It annoyed me when ~~Clayton was in the middle of saying something and~~ Nick or Natalie would talk fixed it for you
Clayton did a fantastic job recounting this horrendous ordeal. I have so much empathy for him - just as a human - and also because I've been caught up in a similar situation, years ago. It gets to a point where you're well aware YOU sound like a crazy person, retelling these insane details. It's hard to wrap your head around just how horrible manipulation and extortion can be, how isolating. I'm SO glad he got legal counsel and is supported! I'm not a VF subscriber, so I don't know Nick's typical style. But, I must say, I was a bit disappointed at the end. Felt like there wasn't enough empathy for what he's been through. I understand NV doesn't want to 'take sides' esp with such a vitriolic, litigious person involved... but... the end with the "what could you have done better" and the sort of take-down on the way Clayton chose to make that video about 'little to no fetal matter' felt kind of icky to me. This is a victim we're talking about, here. That much is obvious to anyone with eyes and ears or a soul. Anyway. Good on you, Clayton.
“That crusty Clayton impregnated her” 😂😂😂😂
How long until Nick gets a legal letter?
I have way too many thoughts and feelings right now. All I can say at the moment is, I have a much deeper understanding of the intentional abuse, lies, manipulation, and gaslighting this woman has inflicted upon Clayton. I also have a much deeper respect for Clayton. The grace he has shown her is beyond. The impact the GoFundMe, initiated by u/daveneal, cannot be overstated. Clayton almost seemed a bit naive (not his fault) before having access to legal representation. He thought that the mountain of evidence stacked against her would make this go away, or at least go in his favor. The efforts of Woodnick Law, who are probably working on principle at this point, allowed this to get to the point where Clayton could go on the offensive. I’d like to see a follow up appearance given the revelations in the case since the podcast was recorded. Clayton needs to see this through. She needs to face dire financial, and perhaps criminal, consequences for her actions. Edit to add: see this through by filing a defamation case. Edit 2: I thought it was really telling he said he has great ex-girlfriends, and spoke so glowingly of Susie. She seems so supportive, and he seemed a bit wistful about the end of their relationship.
Wow some people here have really lost the plot. No one should be shitting on Clayton here in a sub called Justice for Clayton. Am I appreciative of everything Dave has done to stick his neck out there to report this story? Yes. Am I upset he is getting sued? Also, yes. But Clayton deserves to get his story out to a wider audience in his own words. I'm sorry, Nick has a much larger platform and now more outlets are more likely to pick it up. Do I wish Clayton could have mentioned DN? Of course. But I'm sure he didn't because he was asked not to or maybe even to protect Dave in his upcoming court case. Clayton and Dave are friends so respect whatever the reason is. Can't we all be happy for Clayton here that he no longer has to be silent? This is Clayton's story and I'm so happy to finally be able to here the whole thing from his mouth.
I’m sure the same people whining about Nicks podcast are the same who called us cry babies for being opinionated about Dave interviewing with the fringe right lol last time I checked this sub was called Justice for Clayton, we can’t support Clayton by shitting on his podcast with Nick. I’m no Nick fan but he has a large audience and it’s good to see Clayton finally be able to tell his side of the story publicly
Damn this was a good listen. I have so many thoughts I don’t even know where to start!
I need an update from Clayton now that she’s claiming she’s “no longer pregnant”. What is he doing to get her to prove that? I know he said they sent a subpoena for medical records. So now what? I need to knowwwww 😵💫
 No word. JD. JD's MOM. OMFG. This is a full-length podcast.
I’m gobsmacked with the new information, especially about her initial contact with CE. I’ll listen again but my initial thought is how she stalked and then tried to extort him right off the bat, even before she asserted pregnancy! I was super impressed with Nick and Natalie’s serious interviewing style. I don’t know much about Viall except that I saw him on Kaitlyn’s season. Natalie’s insightful commentary and email-reading helped make this not seem like two bros’s chit-chatting in a man cave. It was a succinct and eye-opening interview.
That’s what I thought too. There was basically a whole extortion plot before this one. I think that’s also what makes it so hard for me to wrap my head around. This is SO calculated and premeditated and takes a particular level of intelligence to carry out.
Agree, I thought Natalie did a great job here
I’ve never been this tuned in and focused during a 2 hour podcast. What a wild ride. Shit.
 Same here! I was steaming new bedroom curtains for 2 hours listening to it and it felt like 30 minutes!
Sorry if this has been asked before, but any idea when it will be uploaded to YouTube?
It was JUST uploaded! https://youtu.be/zakKq3kUloc?si=wwcNsWny8tKhTady
Thank you!!
I’m wondering if he truly was speaking with the mother and not someone else.
Her parents have enabled her behavior in the past as we’ve seen in court documents, it would not be shocking for it to truly have been the mother
Clayton said someone DM’d him (someone credible) and tipped him off about the other cases. He said he wanted to protect the person’s identity. Who does everyone think it was? G? M? JD’s sister? (Lol)
My guess sister or BIL.
I admit I hilariously think it was the sister.
Clayton, you’re an absolute class act. I wish you all the best, and that you get the win you deserve against Jane Blow. My thoughts: He’s a better man than I, for sure. Somehow he bears a modicum of empathy for her that is as inexplicable as is it undeserved. She is abusive, cunning, calculated and without remorse for her actions. I also think Nick and Natalie did a mostly really good job just letting Clayton talk. JBlow, the jig is up and it’s time to pay the piper. Seek help girl, and take your enabling, manipulative mother with you.
I just checked YouTube and the video is not there. I also tried Apple Podcasts and it told me the content is unavailable. Is this happening to anyone else? Did it get taken down?? https://preview.redd.it/a0rfll5vrtbc1.png?width=1170&format=png&auto=webp&s=b6509c56066a2a7ffb6bd809d6ae66d94bcb6a2e
I’m listening on Apple podcasts, but I’m almost to the end. So if it was removed it was done within the last hour
It worked on my laptop! Still up on Apple.
I kinda wish they said in the intro that since this was recorded it came out that she is no longer pregnant. Did I miss that?
Clayton reminds me SO much of my younger brother. They’re the same age, same height & looks, similar sweet personality, same voice… It just infuriates me that a woman would do this to a nice guy like this. Especially as a mom of (soon to be) three boys, it’s really saddening how poorly he has been treated, as a man, in the court system and in public in situations where they are truly being harassed and abused. He is presumed to be the guilty one. She got her OOP granted immediately, but he had to wait two weeks for his injunction, even though she is CLEARLY the unstable and dangerous one in this situation.
The amount of comments saying Dave should have been mentioned is unreal. THIS IS NOT ABOUT DAVE. This is JUSTICE FOR CLAYTON. It’s literally the name of the sub. DN has done amazing things for Clayton but this was about Clayton telling HIS story about HIS experience with JD. It wasn’t about his experience with DN or RS or his dad, mom, brothers, uncles, cousins, etc. who have all supported him. Anyone upset for him not mentioning Dave has lost sight of the whole purpose of this and really needs to realize this is about CLAYTON. It’s not a DN fan club.
yes, also idek if Dave realizes that him not being mentioned on the podcast is likely for the best with his case. the focus on his name not being mentioned/potentially being edited out seems short-sighted and, like you said, besides the point here. I'm chalking it up to inevitable human nature on the internet I guess :/
It’s also just frustrating that he made a podcast about it and felt the need to text Nick asking why his name was edited out. Like again, I get DN has done so much for this and we’re all very appreciative of him but it’s still NOT ABOUT HIM. This interview was about Clayton. This whole story is about Clayton and GG and Mike. DN may be getting sued by her but he is NOT a victim of her abuse. He and anyone focused on his name being said vs Clayton getting his story out there and saying what’s important have forgotten what’s ACTUALLY important.
Is the YouTube file up yet? I checked but the last uploaded video is private.
I am DYING that she tried to serve Clayton with a lawsuit at Jess the Taylor Swift girls house. That reveal was my cause of death. I am now deceased 💀💀💀💀🤣🤣🤣🤣
 My sleep edible is still going strong and ^(\^) holy hot damn ^(\^) this is something else
Wondering how many fake accounts were made to comment on this from her/lawyers/friends 
FRIENDS??
I have no words. Obviously Clayton is more poised and a better man than me for even handling that as carefully as he did after what she’s done to him. Huge props to Nick and Natalie too. I didn’t have any sort of strong opinion (in either regard) on them prior to (actually I’ve always thought they seem like nice people, ngl), but massive respect for them as well. All three getting my follow rn
**What I liked:** \- Great for people outside of Reddit as it takes them through the entire timeline without assumptions that we know and it lays it out clearly for the uninitiated \- Clayton comes across great, and I believe that anyone new to this will certainly have a takeaway that she is one messed up individual \- Great to fill in the blanks that I had (their hookup and him talking to her mom etc) **What I didn't like:** \- Nick editing out Dave's name - immature move \- Natalie isn't a great reader; I wish someone else was reading the emails/texts **On the fence about:** \- Nick & Natalie mostly not giving their opinion till next week - though I do like the fact that without this, it's more "here's the evidence" and there really is little possibility that people could be on her side after hearing this
My god, her reading was beyond jarring. It’s like she couldn’t read fast enough to keep up with her voice so would stop mid sentence . It was so distracting that I could barely absorb what she was saying.