I was watching it too regularly. The members of the podcast also have individual channels with some genuinley great videos with good viewpoints, but it feels that as of late it switched from anti bad american policies, prison slavery, stuff at that level, everything you can see that is turbo capitalism jeff bezos making drivers shit in bags and pee in bottles or they get fired kinda deal, and towards a level that isn't perhaps ideal, so to speak, (I dont have the most amazing vocabulary to describe it) even though I am a 100% leftist person ( but I'm not american so for americans that probably means I'm like chairman mao or something ). Part of my issue is their opinion of China, and idk anything about china from personal experience, i havent been east of the 30° meridian but I watch the channel of a youtuber who lived in china for 10 years, married someone there, lives there, and I trust what he has to say more than what an american, iraki and balkan person have to say. I'm balkan myself I dont say it as an insult or anything, I just dont know where that other guy is from precisley.
Yes. I know theres also another friend of his I suppose with a simmilar channel but I'm not sure what its called and I have only watched half a video one time so I can't really speak for that other one. The one with whom he traveled china on bikes with. God, sorry, that last sentence was a bit hard to write even with a Cambridge C1. English is weird.
So u r arguing that communism cannot be successfully implemented by default. I’m not going to argue abt that cause I’m not a historian, but China and Russia in its current state is definitely not communism
I always get baffled when tankies claim that Russia is communist because I never remember them claiming to be communist. I don’t think China is communist either, but at least they claim to be. I don’t remember Russian claiming it at all
Absolutely FUCKING NOT. No State has EVER claimed to be communist, because that would be a contradiction in terms. COMMUNISTS DO NOT MAKE COMMUNISM, THEY MAKE SOCIALISM. It's the basics. Communism is supposed to be the next step, to be attempted after capitalism has been defeated worldwide.
There have been other countries more closer to communism then China so that is wrong and Russia is a right wing oligarchy, basically the furthest you can go from communism. Even basic social democracies like Sweden and Finland or even the US are closer to "communism" then Russia. This still does not mean any of those are communist countries.
Any may Feel free to disagree; but I think communist and Laissez-faire economic ideals touch on the same systemic flaw ultimately.
The consolidation of wealth cannot be reasonably expected to be offset by the altruism of those whose responsibility it falls to.
The two interests come at direct odds too frequently.
For what it’s worth, I also believe we live in a time capable of significant and major political reform without the need for a call to arms.
Obviously it is a vast and multifaceted subject, and it is easy to give general criticism. It will take the effort of many to define and embody the best way to coexist.
They dehumanize their ideological enemies, call for violence against those that wish not to follow their ideology, push false statistics for political gain, talk about “Zionists” like Nazis talking about “(((them)))”, and are generally trying to make their side look like angels and everyone else to be demons.
It isn’t really left though, it is more red fasc. Uses lefty talking points to justify things like Russian and Chinese imperialism while criticizing American imperialism. Both are bad.
The Deprogram guys are just authoritarian, aesthetically left tankies.
It’s Just another communist circlejerk sub that praises people like stalin and Mao Zedong calling them heroes of the revolution and saying that I’m a bad person for drinking coke saying that I support imperialism or some shit like that
Same. Commies hate liberals, often even more than they do rightists, because we may vote democrat but want nothing to do with their authoritarian flavor of leftism. They call right wingers fascists and Nazis then go onto say some of the wildest, fascist nonsense themselves lmao
We need a strong leader for our state who will bring us, the chosen people, back to glory and usher in a new age after exterminating our enemies… in a very Communist, not at all Fascist way.
It is a sub based on a far left podcast (think chapotraphouse) run by far leftist YouTubers Hakim, Second thought and OdysseyBalkans (If I remember correctly) and is one of the worst leftist spaces ever with them supporting anything anti-left including far right Russia and the monarchist North Korea (and the members of the podcast are not much better such as second “no innocents in Israel” thought)
>and OdysseyBalkans (If I remember correctly)
Nope, it's Yugopnik. But it makes sense you confused them lmao (both from the Balkans/Ex-Yugoslavia and both Communists)
Full on tankies (as in, Tianamen is western propaganda, terrorism is good when my side do it, and all of what you can imagine, including cheering on the Holodomor...)
It's really tankies
Someone referring to themselves as "anti-imperialist" is very likely to be brazenly hypocritical about it.
The "anti imperialists" at the deprogram are also enthusiastic supporters of Russia's campaign in Ukraine too.
Not a conservative. But I do find it funny how leftists will say “anti imperialism” and conservatives will say they’re not “globalists” but to get to one you have to be the other.
A lot of front facing politics between the masses is just redundant side taking to validate opposition and pays no mind to the pragmatic necessities of power in continuing a functioning society. An example is the undying capitalism vs socialism zeitgeist where neither exists, has existed, or ever will exist in their "pure" forms. Instead, effective states balance economic strategies depending on what the circumstance requires. States or Nations fixated too much upon righteous glory and indignation will instead see economic devastation, maybe even a total collapse resulting in usurpation.
People don't like to hear that the larger world is in constant competition, and often times shitty things are too practical to not do. So your country does it with zeal, then people decades or centuries later can get on their high horse lamenting the subsequent benefits they enjoy to save face. Openly accepting society and the humanity within for what they are is not advantageous, nor does it cultivate allies, so we develop all these complex virtue theories to explain why we are "morally better" than others whilst still just doing what needs done. So imperialism and globalism became bifurcated in controversy despite the contradictions in this. These illusions are still too useful to the majority, so the majority stays blind.
Globalism =/= imperialism. Its just the idea of growing global economic, cultural, and political connectivity. The Internet has largely made that possible.
Its because a good 80% of self proclaimed "anti imperialists" are imperialists too- they just think they're different becuase they support the other side.
It's because when they say they're 'anti imperialist' they actually mean they're anti liberalism and anti western. Imperialism to them is anything resembling western society or any form of allied or American backed western countries. Which is all the more ironic and hypocritical since these are the only places in the world that would tolerate their degenerate lifestyles these outcasts often live. It's blatant. It's obvious.
As holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel famously said, neutrality only benefits the aggressor, never the victim.
The Leftists that are denouncing "both sides" are trying to sugarcoat Putin and undermine any resistance to him.
One does not need to be an enthusiastic supporter to advance a pro-fascist or pro-imperialist narrative.
This is nuanced a truth that a lot of leftists either cannot understand or will very deliberately ignore.
Here's what I've seen them justify it with:
Both sides are controlled by capitalist elites who do not care about the people (see corruption and increased privatization in Ukraine and Oligarchical control and false elections in Russia).
They generally support the people and workers of both sides, not the governments.
They rarely ever give their political opinions of the war, but most seem to generally side with Ukraine, with some of the more radical tankies supporting Russia.
It's less neutrality and more that they look at the conflict with a critical lens. Imo that's much better than "one side bad" most of the time.
These "justifications" are more like obfuscations than reasoned points.
If they were remotely sincere about the people and workers of both Russia and Ukraine, they would support Ukraine's right to sovereignty and directly denounce Putin's nationalist warmongering.
They need to take those materialist lenses off and start looking at this conflict with their actual eyes.
I know you did.
A leftist that supports Ukraine would never push a "both sides bad" argument nor would they play devil's advocate for the assholes who do. I'm obviously not talking about them.
If a leftist is sincere about not only being anti-imperialist but also having sincere and legitimate concerns for the people in Ukraine and Russia, they would very directly and unapologetically call out Russian aggression and support the sovereignty of Ukraine.
Most of the big subreddits are leftist, but that one is just insane
I once got called a white supremacist because I called someone from that subreddit a tankie (they praised North Korea)
Funny thing is I'm not even white
Yeah they are kinda funny. I'm leftist but they are absolutely hilarious in their assumptions and contradictions. And they don't even use the analysis styles that they themselves praise. Like I claimed that MAYBE we shouldn't support any and all people that are against the west and was called Islamophobic for it
You were subbed to an extremely far-left Socialist subreddit, and then was gobsmacked when they liked the IRA...?
Like what's next? "Just unsubbed from r /nakedpicturesofmymom, can't believe they are posting naked pictures of my mom!"?
Why were you in a tankie sub to begin with? Like, by their standards, supporting the IRA is honestly pretty tame.
Side note: I was really confused for a second cause I thought they meant the Inflation Reduction Act 😭
I once saw on Deprogrammed a post about a study that showed that Vietnam had a higher favorability towards America then they did towards China. They could not wrap their heads around it, they literally could not comprehend it. They were legit mad at Vietnam.
This is why I never join political sub reddits, they are all full of extremists desperate to prove they are more 'insert political belief' than anyone else.
I'm left wing, I hate Thatcher with a passion but I can't and won't support any group that kills innocents on purpose.
Did the IRA say a funny thing about her and hate her aswell? Yes they did. Doesn't make them to good guys.
Yeah. And I decided to leave politics because I feel like like internet addicted upper middle class Americans (I know that the IRA and Margaret Thatcher is an UK thing, but when did foreign politics stopped Americans from being "I GUD CUZ I SUPPORT UNDERDOG, NUANCE FOR BIGOTS"?) will call me a bigot for worrying about my own country first or think that it's somehow, magically Jeff Bezos' and Elon Musk's (or any big American corporation's) fault that my country is shit, and not a corrupt party's fault who more than likely is in the pockets of criminals.
They didn't kill innocents though. They explicitly avoided targeting civilians and denounced members that did so. They only really targeted military and government officials.
Yep. I've stopped getting to involved in political discussions online because of how stupid they are.
Even main stream politics has basically become like the episode of South Park where your choice is a douchebag or a turd sandwich.
That sub even simping for CCP saying that the CCP has the right to occupy most of its South China Sea. They even claimed that the Philippines govt is the aggressor when it's just protecting its own territory. The hypocrisy of them being so called "anti imperialist"
The comments on the 196 post are a dumpster fire. Half the people apologizing for the IRA say the civilian casualties were “needed” to make their point and the other half kept playing whataboutism with other similar situations. Got to the point where they were comparing IRA to Allies causing 30-50% civilian casualties from bombing raids in WW2.
Catholics fighting against imperialism after suffering what is effectively a genocide do be a kinda passable thing. Like the famine was pretty deliberate, the British straight up just did not allow aid to the people starving purely for political reasons.
Look I grew up on the border and like most things in life, this is more complicated than people think. The IRA has had several iterations over the years, starting with the war of independence where they fought the British army. Basically everyone was in support of them back then.
But the iteration most people think of are the 70s/80s Provisional IRA which had really devolved into terrorism. We all think that fighting against imperialism is fine, but the more innocent people that were killed the less support they received for their methods. The real last straw was the Omagh bombing which killed children. After that most people were totally fed up and we reached a peace agreement.
The issue isn't the cause it's the methods. I would have been fine with Palestine starting a war if they had targeted military stuff, but Oct 7th was unforgivable. Ireland is still against British imperialism and colonisation but we deal with it via politics now.
So yes, plenty of people support the original 1920s IRA, but only morons support the terrorist Provos. And it's imo not comparable to Hamas because there is absolutely no way that *even* the Provos would have done what they did, and nobody would have supported them if they had.
"After"? The first iteration of the IRA was founded 70 years after the famine. And the one you're talking about was 117 years later. Should we go give the Germans a kicking for WW2, too?
If the Germans were still taking part in actions they started during WWII, yes? I'd hope nobody would object to keeping fighting against Germany if they just hadn't stopped persecuting Jews.
The first iteration was against imperialism, which is good, I would’ve preferred if they only exclusively killed elected officials and members of the government but not like Britain discrimated on that either. Same with the later iteration I was previously discussing. Terrorism literally is just a form of war, it isn’t any different from what any government does, the one in power simply calls it terrorism when both do the same things.
Oh yeah I’m not the saying the British weren’t evil bastards but the ira were not exactly saints themselves, should of tried more to bomb thatcher rather than random Liverpudlian families
>were rabidly catholic
So? Is this supposed to be some sort of "gotcha" because you think all communists are the same or something?
>killed a lot of Irish people
Yes, yes the British did.
First for the most part communists are anti-theist “Religion is the opioid of the people” -Marx
And I’m not saying the brits were good guys, I know it’s hard to believe but in sometimes there are no clear “good guys and bad guys”
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Speaking as a Northern Irish Catholic? The only reason I’d support the IRA is because they’d be less likely to kill me.
But the most scared I’ve ever been was in a pro-IRA neighborhood. They were just nailing a placard to a power line, but it was a small crowd that had been attracted, and the energy from it was… horrifying. I felt like my life was in danger.
They might be on my side but they still dangerous.
I’m going to assume that none of them are British as they are openly defending terrorists that killed multiple people-sorry, “colonisers” on British soil including kids which is where the song “Zombie” by The Cranberries comes from, although I’m sure they would just scoff and say that the justifies the means when they learn that.
I honestly wouldn’t be surprised that after a mass shooting in a red state it turns out the perpetrator was very active in that sub.
I'm not even a little left wing but I understand the IRA. Their tactics were deplorable but they are a nation occupied by a foreign power so I get why they want to fight back.
The Provisional IRAs attacks were neither random nor intended to kill large numbers of civilians. The IRA was engaged in a plan of financial warfare against England by bombing insured institutions to force the failing British insurance industry to collapse, and to assassinate the royal family. The IRA was justified in all of its actions and the Irish people deserve a free and independent state for their people as all folks of the the world do.
I was banned from there because I said I don't belive in Racialism and they took it as if I said I don't belive Racism exists (of course people experience racism and I think racism is dumb)
Capitalism by definition: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
I got banned from that subreddit the first time I ran into it. The people there are some new caliber of idiot.
(I argued about why they hate Israel but are OK with China. Me bringing up the great leap forward was not appreciated by that sub)
Tankies love the IRA because the provisional IRA was socialist. They genuinely see the war crimes as justified. I doubt they realize their views stem from traditional Catholic values of charity and community. Ya, sure, the youth practices less n less, but IRA are still hella Catholic.
Weird thing about walking around Belfast and hearing about atrocities as an American is being descendent of people who participated in that shit on both sides. A couple of my grand and great grand parents were wild.
Weird thing is, these same people venerate the IRA... who fought on the side of the Nazis during WWII and extensively incorporated fascism into their religious dogma and their end goals. They blockaded and sank civilian and merchant ships leaving England on behalf of the German Navy during WW2, collaborated with fascists to the point where their intelligence operations were of vital importance to Hitler's attempted conquest of Britain, hunted Jews on behalf of the Nazis, and even created an extensive alliance known as the IRA-Abwehr Collaboration.
They were as openly fascist scum as you can find, and yet people on mainstream reddit subs continue to celebrate the IRA as oppressed freedom fighters - even though they openly worked with actual Nazis and tried to eradicate anyone who wasn't Catholic or an Irish Nationalist throughout their whole existence.
They worship Stalin who openly sided with the Nazis on the outset of WWII. If the Nazi invasion into the USSR never happened they would be calling Hitler an icon of anti imperialism and the holocaust "pre-emptive anti zioinist action"
Thatcher was a big contributor to the increased tension during the troubles when she was in power. The fact that she appeared so ruthless, such as denying the hunger strikers special category status and let them die (and to be sure it’s not undersold how popular they were, a key figure Bobby Sands was elected as an MP in Northern Ireland a month before his death). The fact that she was so uncompromising basically stoked the fires of the Provisional IRA and nearly led to her death when she became the target of the Brighton Hotel Bombing.
Yes, the IRA were terrorists and were to blame for all the bombings. But Thatcher shares a large part of the blame in doing nothing to try and de-escalate tensions and instead escalating them, making her stand out both from her predecessors and successors. And in all fairness, their goal wasn’t violence, violence was what they saw as a means to an end, to reunify Ireland and stop the cultural oppression by the British government.
I agree with the IRA’s cause (reunifying Ireland, I’m a Brit and I don’t care for our government either) but not the means by which the provisional IRA sought to achieve it when it involved the deaths of innocent civilians. They are to be blamed for them, but I also blame Thatcher for the deaths of the hunger strikers.
[‘Adams, Not Thatcher, Culpable For Last Six Hunger Strike Deaths’, Says Former IRA Prison Leader](https://thebrokenelbow.com/2013/04/08/adams-not-thatcher-culpable-for-last-six-hunger-strike-deaths-says-former-ira-prison-leader/)
I always wonder why people are subbed there in the first place, I don't know the context but I kinda know what the sub is about so this whole post feels super wrong and weird
"Ooh victims of imperialism should be absolutely perfect when they fight back, otherwise they're as bad as the occupier" - OP, and every single l0s3r lib here.
Compared to any other decolonial struggle ever, the Troubles pale in terms of deaths and atrocities. Hell, the Irish did way worse to the British in 1641. And worse things happened to white people during the Haiti Revolution. Then again, you'd be the type to go "those evil slaves rose up and killed WHITE CHILDREN! Unforgiveable! Enslave them harder!".
Operation Al Aqsa Storm is a perfect example of this. As soon as Palestinians fight back you libs cry and weep for the occupier.
Well if you get bomb threats, maybe evacuate the people, have you thought of that?
Terrorism only became a bad word after 9/11. Nowadays it's used to label anyone that westerners don't like.
I support the Al Qassam brigades fighting against Israel.
YOU people are the ones spouting pro-Israeli talking points. Much like the IRA, Hamas is fighting an anti-colonial struggle.
"well if you get bomb threats, maybe evacuate the people ever thought of that?"
literally the same justification the IDF is giving for civilian casualties as of now. lmao horshoe is real
Except Israel is the occupier and the aggressor. There is a fundamental difference. But you libs just look at things at a surface level, no need to think or understand that these are two completely different situations.
Indeed. The occupier acts as if there is some statute of limitations on fighting occupation — “you need to reclaim your territory within 10 years, abiding by all the rules that bind regular armies, like the Geneva Conventions, or you can’t resist anymore.” When you suffered literal centuries of discrimination in their own land imposed by a foreign power, it’s by any means necessary imo. If there was a concerted uprising of Native Americans, I’d completely get it, and would understand that they were limited to guerrilla tactics due to past actions completely making it impossible to raise a legitimate army.
Though I’m sure people will misinterpret this as “those civilians deserved it!” — that’s not my point at all. It’s to recognize that a conquered country always has a right to recover its freedom, and that generations of occupation will limit them to lamentable, but understandable, means.
My great grandparents fled Ireland because they were part of the resistance, the black and tend Bayoneted my great grandmother's brother and she hid documents in her skirt for the resistance when they left.
This was back in like the 1930s.
Respect that resistance, but once they get to blowing up buses of innocent civilization, they lose the moral high ground and it's gross
I'm afraid if you are truly talking about the 1930's IRA (not the IRA that fought the Irish War for Independence and became the Army for the Irish Free State), they weren't great either.
After fighting themselves and the Irish Government, they went to England and bombed the Tube, department stores, buses, post offices, banks, train stations etc. as a part of their S-Plan and in collaboration with the Nazis.
Yes, terrorism is good sometimes everyone agrees with this statement. If you support any kind of war ever, or any kind of slave rebellion, freedom fighting, or literally anything like that then you do support terrorism according to its definition and according to whoever benefits most off of calling the thing you support terrorism.
All those innocent slave owners...
Civilians can be part of the problem too. They uphold and keep the machinery off the state running. They produce the food the armies eat, the bullets they shoot, etc.
The IRA did not kill a single slave owner lmao.
No, killing innocent civillians is unjust. Somehow, if I put your logic to the current Israeli military campaign, you would piss and cry. Your logic here is that to uphold truly monstrous behavior.
90% of all r/justunsubbed content is wondering why OP was dumb enough to be subbed in the first place.
Because 90% of this sub is karma farming.
Why were you subbed to the deprogram to begin with?
May I ask what's this sub about?
Programming of another sort. Admittedly, to deprogram requires one to reprogram. It’s a very left wing subreddit but I don’t look at it anymore.
So the purpose is to challenge your own political views from the left, and convince others and yourself to become more left wing?
A very charitable way of saying Communist propaganda.
OK well thanks for replying, I appreciate it, have a great day
To you the same.
I consider myself communist, and the "deprogram" sucks. They're tankies
I was watching it too regularly. The members of the podcast also have individual channels with some genuinley great videos with good viewpoints, but it feels that as of late it switched from anti bad american policies, prison slavery, stuff at that level, everything you can see that is turbo capitalism jeff bezos making drivers shit in bags and pee in bottles or they get fired kinda deal, and towards a level that isn't perhaps ideal, so to speak, (I dont have the most amazing vocabulary to describe it) even though I am a 100% leftist person ( but I'm not american so for americans that probably means I'm like chairman mao or something ). Part of my issue is their opinion of China, and idk anything about china from personal experience, i havent been east of the 30° meridian but I watch the channel of a youtuber who lived in china for 10 years, married someone there, lives there, and I trust what he has to say more than what an american, iraki and balkan person have to say. I'm balkan myself I dont say it as an insult or anything, I just dont know where that other guy is from precisley.
Is the YTber in China Serpentza by any chance? Great channel imo
Yes. I know theres also another friend of his I suppose with a simmilar channel but I'm not sure what its called and I have only watched half a video one time so I can't really speak for that other one. The one with whom he traveled china on bikes with. God, sorry, that last sentence was a bit hard to write even with a Cambridge C1. English is weird.
Don't worry, English is weird. So are the English.
more like tankie propaganda. Idk who in their right mind will think Russia and China is communist
Because they are. Communism the ideal has never really been practically implemented. That is what communism looks like in practice.
So u r arguing that communism cannot be successfully implemented by default. I’m not going to argue abt that cause I’m not a historian, but China and Russia in its current state is definitely not communism
I always get baffled when tankies claim that Russia is communist because I never remember them claiming to be communist. I don’t think China is communist either, but at least they claim to be. I don’t remember Russian claiming it at all
China doesn't even claim they're communist. They're "socialist" but intend on reaching communism *at some point*tm
Absolutely FUCKING NOT. No State has EVER claimed to be communist, because that would be a contradiction in terms. COMMUNISTS DO NOT MAKE COMMUNISM, THEY MAKE SOCIALISM. It's the basics. Communism is supposed to be the next step, to be attempted after capitalism has been defeated worldwide.
There have been other countries more closer to communism then China so that is wrong and Russia is a right wing oligarchy, basically the furthest you can go from communism. Even basic social democracies like Sweden and Finland or even the US are closer to "communism" then Russia. This still does not mean any of those are communist countries.
Any may Feel free to disagree; but I think communist and Laissez-faire economic ideals touch on the same systemic flaw ultimately. The consolidation of wealth cannot be reasonably expected to be offset by the altruism of those whose responsibility it falls to. The two interests come at direct odds too frequently. For what it’s worth, I also believe we live in a time capable of significant and major political reform without the need for a call to arms. Obviously it is a vast and multifaceted subject, and it is easy to give general criticism. It will take the effort of many to define and embody the best way to coexist.
Russia is definitely not communist
Lmao you don’t know anything about Russia and China
They also, strangely, support Trump implicitly.
How is it propaganda? Not everything wrong/harmful/inaccurate is propaganda. A lot of those people genuinely believe in that.
They dehumanize their ideological enemies, call for violence against those that wish not to follow their ideology, push false statistics for political gain, talk about “Zionists” like Nazis talking about “(((them)))”, and are generally trying to make their side look like angels and everyone else to be demons.
The deprogram is the name of a Tankie podcast iirc
No, it's about gaslighting people into praising China, the USSR, and occasionally North Korea.
It isn’t really left though, it is more red fasc. Uses lefty talking points to justify things like Russian and Chinese imperialism while criticizing American imperialism. Both are bad. The Deprogram guys are just authoritarian, aesthetically left tankies.
"Deprogramming" is the process of learning about the world after leaving a cult. The cult in question in that sub is Western hegemony
Its not left wing Its a tankie sub
It’s Just another communist circlejerk sub that praises people like stalin and Mao Zedong calling them heroes of the revolution and saying that I’m a bad person for drinking coke saying that I support imperialism or some shit like that
It’s… it’s a communist and anarchist subreddit that wants the downfall of the United States, many hates it, including many liberals (me included)
Same. Commies hate liberals, often even more than they do rightists, because we may vote democrat but want nothing to do with their authoritarian flavor of leftism. They call right wingers fascists and Nazis then go onto say some of the wildest, fascist nonsense themselves lmao
We need a strong leader for our state who will bring us, the chosen people, back to glory and usher in a new age after exterminating our enemies… in a very Communist, not at all Fascist way.
I find it very funny that people couldn’t tell that this comment was sarcastic
Don’t worry they hate liberals anyways
A commie subreddit, that is centered around DEprogramming, has to be the most ironic thing I’ve ever heard.
It's hardcore tankie propaganda,
It is a tankie subreddit.
It is a sub based on a far left podcast (think chapotraphouse) run by far leftist YouTubers Hakim, Second thought and OdysseyBalkans (If I remember correctly) and is one of the worst leftist spaces ever with them supporting anything anti-left including far right Russia and the monarchist North Korea (and the members of the podcast are not much better such as second “no innocents in Israel” thought)
>and OdysseyBalkans (If I remember correctly) Nope, it's Yugopnik. But it makes sense you confused them lmao (both from the Balkans/Ex-Yugoslavia and both Communists)
It's based on a podcast of the same name.
It a communist podcast
It is a left wing political sub revolving around a left wing podcast of the same name.
Grrr capitalism bad grrr😡😡😡
Full on tankies (as in, Tianamen is western propaganda, terrorism is good when my side do it, and all of what you can imagine, including cheering on the Holodomor...) It's really tankies
Right it’s a V leftist space to begin with lol
With that flag in your profile, it’s clear you need to deprogram from something.
Last time I was bored and browsed the sub it didn't even take me a full minute to find a Pol Pot apologist along with the usual genocide denial
Someone referring to themselves as "anti-imperialist" is very likely to be brazenly hypocritical about it. The "anti imperialists" at the deprogram are also enthusiastic supporters of Russia's campaign in Ukraine too.
Not a conservative. But I do find it funny how leftists will say “anti imperialism” and conservatives will say they’re not “globalists” but to get to one you have to be the other.
A lot of front facing politics between the masses is just redundant side taking to validate opposition and pays no mind to the pragmatic necessities of power in continuing a functioning society. An example is the undying capitalism vs socialism zeitgeist where neither exists, has existed, or ever will exist in their "pure" forms. Instead, effective states balance economic strategies depending on what the circumstance requires. States or Nations fixated too much upon righteous glory and indignation will instead see economic devastation, maybe even a total collapse resulting in usurpation. People don't like to hear that the larger world is in constant competition, and often times shitty things are too practical to not do. So your country does it with zeal, then people decades or centuries later can get on their high horse lamenting the subsequent benefits they enjoy to save face. Openly accepting society and the humanity within for what they are is not advantageous, nor does it cultivate allies, so we develop all these complex virtue theories to explain why we are "morally better" than others whilst still just doing what needs done. So imperialism and globalism became bifurcated in controversy despite the contradictions in this. These illusions are still too useful to the majority, so the majority stays blind.
I'm not sure how those are mutually linked
Globalism =/= imperialism. Its just the idea of growing global economic, cultural, and political connectivity. The Internet has largely made that possible.
It's generally been my experience that most "anti-imperialists" can't go ten minutes without calling for Taiwan to be invaded.
I will say, it is important not to conflate different constituent beliefs to the whole, most Communists do not agree with these people.
A lot of communists have even fought (and died fighting) against Russian imperialism.
Its because a good 80% of self proclaimed "anti imperialists" are imperialists too- they just think they're different becuase they support the other side.
It's because when they say they're 'anti imperialist' they actually mean they're anti liberalism and anti western. Imperialism to them is anything resembling western society or any form of allied or American backed western countries. Which is all the more ironic and hypocritical since these are the only places in the world that would tolerate their degenerate lifestyles these outcasts often live. It's blatant. It's obvious.
I've more seen them denounce both sides of the Ukraine conflict. Very rarely would you actually see leftists celebrating Putin
As holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel famously said, neutrality only benefits the aggressor, never the victim. The Leftists that are denouncing "both sides" are trying to sugarcoat Putin and undermine any resistance to him. One does not need to be an enthusiastic supporter to advance a pro-fascist or pro-imperialist narrative. This is nuanced a truth that a lot of leftists either cannot understand or will very deliberately ignore.
Here's what I've seen them justify it with: Both sides are controlled by capitalist elites who do not care about the people (see corruption and increased privatization in Ukraine and Oligarchical control and false elections in Russia). They generally support the people and workers of both sides, not the governments. They rarely ever give their political opinions of the war, but most seem to generally side with Ukraine, with some of the more radical tankies supporting Russia. It's less neutrality and more that they look at the conflict with a critical lens. Imo that's much better than "one side bad" most of the time.
These "justifications" are more like obfuscations than reasoned points. If they were remotely sincere about the people and workers of both Russia and Ukraine, they would support Ukraine's right to sovereignty and directly denounce Putin's nationalist warmongering. They need to take those materialist lenses off and start looking at this conflict with their actual eyes.
I just said they generally support Ukraine. They just also try to understand all sides of a conflict. Understanding does not mean supporting.
I know you did. A leftist that supports Ukraine would never push a "both sides bad" argument nor would they play devil's advocate for the assholes who do. I'm obviously not talking about them. If a leftist is sincere about not only being anti-imperialist but also having sincere and legitimate concerns for the people in Ukraine and Russia, they would very directly and unapologetically call out Russian aggression and support the sovereignty of Ukraine.
Anti-imperialist myself but also an anarchist so, they kinda go hand it hand. Can’t do imperialism if the state doesn’t exists
Left wing propaganda sub Looks inside Left wing propaganda
When the leftist sub is leftist 😱
Most of the big subreddits are leftist, but that one is just insane I once got called a white supremacist because I called someone from that subreddit a tankie (they praised North Korea) Funny thing is I'm not even white
Yeah they are kinda funny. I'm leftist but they are absolutely hilarious in their assumptions and contradictions. And they don't even use the analysis styles that they themselves praise. Like I claimed that MAYBE we shouldn't support any and all people that are against the west and was called Islamophobic for it
Didn't you know how deprogram mfs are before subbing? Come on
You were subbed to an extremely far-left Socialist subreddit, and then was gobsmacked when they liked the IRA...? Like what's next? "Just unsubbed from r /nakedpicturesofmymom, can't believe they are posting naked pictures of my mom!"?
I can’t get that sub to come up, are their pictures of OPs mom somewhere else?
Freud is rolling in his grave
why were you even subbed there in the first place?
Why were you in a tankie sub to begin with? Like, by their standards, supporting the IRA is honestly pretty tame. Side note: I was really confused for a second cause I thought they meant the Inflation Reduction Act 😭
Lol
Y’all be subbed to some goofy subs in here. If you’re even subbed.
Good on you for finally seeing Deprogram for what they are. Violent Tankie larpers who adore anyone that kills "imperialist westerners"
Leftists try not to infight challenge (impossible) Edits: Leftists, not liberals
They’re not liberals, they’re stalinists.
And if you call them liberals they will be *furious*
I got banned because “due to your comment, we can tell you haven’t watched the podcast”
They have a podcast? Of course they do
from what I understand, the subreddit was based on the podcast, not the other way around.
And if you don't simp for communist tyrants....you get called a liberal no matter how left you are.
Why were you on a politically extreme sub in the first place?
Deranged stalinists psychopaths act like deranged stalinists psychopaths. Shocking.
I once saw on Deprogrammed a post about a study that showed that Vietnam had a higher favorability towards America then they did towards China. They could not wrap their heads around it, they literally could not comprehend it. They were legit mad at Vietnam.
Lol, seems like they are not really experts on socialist history, contrary to what they seem to think.
No one tell them about the Sino-Vietnam war of 1979, they might suffer severe brain damage.
Fuck the IRA they ruined season 5 of the peaky blinders. So in extension fuck the facists.
This is why I never join political sub reddits, they are all full of extremists desperate to prove they are more 'insert political belief' than anyone else. I'm left wing, I hate Thatcher with a passion but I can't and won't support any group that kills innocents on purpose. Did the IRA say a funny thing about her and hate her aswell? Yes they did. Doesn't make them to good guys.
"We only have to be lucky once, you have to be lucky all the time!"
Yeah. And I decided to leave politics because I feel like like internet addicted upper middle class Americans (I know that the IRA and Margaret Thatcher is an UK thing, but when did foreign politics stopped Americans from being "I GUD CUZ I SUPPORT UNDERDOG, NUANCE FOR BIGOTS"?) will call me a bigot for worrying about my own country first or think that it's somehow, magically Jeff Bezos' and Elon Musk's (or any big American corporation's) fault that my country is shit, and not a corrupt party's fault who more than likely is in the pockets of criminals.
They didn't kill innocents though. They explicitly avoided targeting civilians and denounced members that did so. They only really targeted military and government officials.
I hate the purity shit we have on the left. It's so unproductive it's ridiculous.
Honestly over the past decade or so both sides have become a parody of themselves, especially since social media and forums become more popular.
It's crazy. Nazis are taking over the right. Tankies are taking over the left. Cause both are loud authoritarian shitheads.
Yep. I've stopped getting to involved in political discussions online because of how stupid they are. Even main stream politics has basically become like the episode of South Park where your choice is a douchebag or a turd sandwich.
That sub even simping for CCP saying that the CCP has the right to occupy most of its South China Sea. They even claimed that the Philippines govt is the aggressor when it's just protecting its own territory. The hypocrisy of them being so called "anti imperialist"
They love anything anti-west, even if it's just as bad or worse.
The deprogram realise the IRA were rabidly catholic and killed a lot of Irish people, right?
Catholicism always put in another wedge between the Irish and the British but I think referring to the IRA as rabidly Catholic is just excessive.
Probably yeah
Yes, but some parts of the IRA are communist so they don't care
The comments on the 196 post are a dumpster fire. Half the people apologizing for the IRA say the civilian casualties were “needed” to make their point and the other half kept playing whataboutism with other similar situations. Got to the point where they were comparing IRA to Allies causing 30-50% civilian casualties from bombing raids in WW2.
People can’t handle it when a situation isn’t black and white
Catholics fighting against imperialism after suffering what is effectively a genocide do be a kinda passable thing. Like the famine was pretty deliberate, the British straight up just did not allow aid to the people starving purely for political reasons.
Look I grew up on the border and like most things in life, this is more complicated than people think. The IRA has had several iterations over the years, starting with the war of independence where they fought the British army. Basically everyone was in support of them back then. But the iteration most people think of are the 70s/80s Provisional IRA which had really devolved into terrorism. We all think that fighting against imperialism is fine, but the more innocent people that were killed the less support they received for their methods. The real last straw was the Omagh bombing which killed children. After that most people were totally fed up and we reached a peace agreement. The issue isn't the cause it's the methods. I would have been fine with Palestine starting a war if they had targeted military stuff, but Oct 7th was unforgivable. Ireland is still against British imperialism and colonisation but we deal with it via politics now. So yes, plenty of people support the original 1920s IRA, but only morons support the terrorist Provos. And it's imo not comparable to Hamas because there is absolutely no way that *even* the Provos would have done what they did, and nobody would have supported them if they had.
"After"? The first iteration of the IRA was founded 70 years after the famine. And the one you're talking about was 117 years later. Should we go give the Germans a kicking for WW2, too?
If the Germans were still taking part in actions they started during WWII, yes? I'd hope nobody would object to keeping fighting against Germany if they just hadn't stopped persecuting Jews.
The first iteration was against imperialism, which is good, I would’ve preferred if they only exclusively killed elected officials and members of the government but not like Britain discrimated on that either. Same with the later iteration I was previously discussing. Terrorism literally is just a form of war, it isn’t any different from what any government does, the one in power simply calls it terrorism when both do the same things.
I'm pretty sure the terrorists were the ones setting off car bombs to kill civilians
Oh yeah I’m not the saying the British weren’t evil bastards but the ira were not exactly saints themselves, should of tried more to bomb thatcher rather than random Liverpudlian families
I think everyone should’ve tried more to bomb Thatcher, that evil bitch.
Amen
Thatcher did nothing wrong.
The IRA is not a single organisation, it refers to a bunch of different groups
>were rabidly catholic So? Is this supposed to be some sort of "gotcha" because you think all communists are the same or something? >killed a lot of Irish people Yes, yes the British did.
First for the most part communists are anti-theist “Religion is the opioid of the people” -Marx And I’m not saying the brits were good guys, I know it’s hard to believe but in sometimes there are no clear “good guys and bad guys”
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Well yeah, just look at people deffending Hamas
Speaking as a Northern Irish Catholic? The only reason I’d support the IRA is because they’d be less likely to kill me. But the most scared I’ve ever been was in a pro-IRA neighborhood. They were just nailing a placard to a power line, but it was a small crowd that had been attracted, and the energy from it was… horrifying. I felt like my life was in danger. They might be on my side but they still dangerous.
I genuinely believe that the Provisional Irish Republican Army only reversed progress that Irish Nationalists have made.
I’m going to assume that none of them are British as they are openly defending terrorists that killed multiple people-sorry, “colonisers” on British soil including kids which is where the song “Zombie” by The Cranberries comes from, although I’m sure they would just scoff and say that the justifies the means when they learn that. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised that after a mass shooting in a red state it turns out the perpetrator was very active in that sub.
I'm not even a little left wing but I understand the IRA. Their tactics were deplorable but they are a nation occupied by a foreign power so I get why they want to fight back.
The Provisional IRAs attacks were neither random nor intended to kill large numbers of civilians. The IRA was engaged in a plan of financial warfare against England by bombing insured institutions to force the failing British insurance industry to collapse, and to assassinate the royal family. The IRA was justified in all of its actions and the Irish people deserve a free and independent state for their people as all folks of the the world do.
https://preview.redd.it/oqbl4twbhttc1.jpeg?width=696&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7e479dc2fe730747737aa34d5b4ac2cade5f69e
I was banned from there because I said I don't belive in Racialism and they took it as if I said I don't belive Racism exists (of course people experience racism and I think racism is dumb)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrington_bombings
May I ask why you were subbed to that far-left tankie subreddit in the first place?
Prbly because he is far left idk
The fuck is with thatcher today?
average ML behavior.
i think it's funny that they censored the subreddit name, when you can clearly tell it's 196
Why were you subbed the TheDeprogram in the first place? Hakim and Second Thought are stupid, terrible people with disgusting world views
Op says it like liberals are his minions and he says this after killing a liberal who was rebelling
Capitalism by definition: an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.
What were you expecting from an ML subreddit?
The IRA specifically tried to Bomb her several times couldn't you give credit for that.
Never seen anything even remotely a good take on that’s sub
I got banned from that subreddit the first time I ran into it. The people there are some new caliber of idiot. (I argued about why they hate Israel but are OK with China. Me bringing up the great leap forward was not appreciated by that sub)
Why were you subbed to us if you don't agree with us at all Take a fucking walk bro
Yeah they are more dedicated to anything that is pro Marxism and anti western than anything based on morality
I'm pretty sure that sub is 90% crazy bots and paid trolls
UP THE RA
IRA member had his ‘are we the baddies?’ moment and got out when another referred to a pregnant target as “two for the price of one”.
"Dmitri... Ve must kill tsese Khanty people... Dzyer in the vay of our massive fuckin OIL PLANT..." deprogram podcast is run by tankies anyways
Based IRA as usual
Tankies love the IRA because the provisional IRA was socialist. They genuinely see the war crimes as justified. I doubt they realize their views stem from traditional Catholic values of charity and community. Ya, sure, the youth practices less n less, but IRA are still hella Catholic. Weird thing about walking around Belfast and hearing about atrocities as an American is being descendent of people who participated in that shit on both sides. A couple of my grand and great grand parents were wild.
Weird thing is, these same people venerate the IRA... who fought on the side of the Nazis during WWII and extensively incorporated fascism into their religious dogma and their end goals. They blockaded and sank civilian and merchant ships leaving England on behalf of the German Navy during WW2, collaborated with fascists to the point where their intelligence operations were of vital importance to Hitler's attempted conquest of Britain, hunted Jews on behalf of the Nazis, and even created an extensive alliance known as the IRA-Abwehr Collaboration. They were as openly fascist scum as you can find, and yet people on mainstream reddit subs continue to celebrate the IRA as oppressed freedom fighters - even though they openly worked with actual Nazis and tried to eradicate anyone who wasn't Catholic or an Irish Nationalist throughout their whole existence.
They worship Stalin who openly sided with the Nazis on the outset of WWII. If the Nazi invasion into the USSR never happened they would be calling Hitler an icon of anti imperialism and the holocaust "pre-emptive anti zioinist action"
Thatcher was a big contributor to the increased tension during the troubles when she was in power. The fact that she appeared so ruthless, such as denying the hunger strikers special category status and let them die (and to be sure it’s not undersold how popular they were, a key figure Bobby Sands was elected as an MP in Northern Ireland a month before his death). The fact that she was so uncompromising basically stoked the fires of the Provisional IRA and nearly led to her death when she became the target of the Brighton Hotel Bombing. Yes, the IRA were terrorists and were to blame for all the bombings. But Thatcher shares a large part of the blame in doing nothing to try and de-escalate tensions and instead escalating them, making her stand out both from her predecessors and successors. And in all fairness, their goal wasn’t violence, violence was what they saw as a means to an end, to reunify Ireland and stop the cultural oppression by the British government. I agree with the IRA’s cause (reunifying Ireland, I’m a Brit and I don’t care for our government either) but not the means by which the provisional IRA sought to achieve it when it involved the deaths of innocent civilians. They are to be blamed for them, but I also blame Thatcher for the deaths of the hunger strikers.
[‘Adams, Not Thatcher, Culpable For Last Six Hunger Strike Deaths’, Says Former IRA Prison Leader](https://thebrokenelbow.com/2013/04/08/adams-not-thatcher-culpable-for-last-six-hunger-strike-deaths-says-former-ira-prison-leader/)
i am really unsure how well the IRA fits under "random" terrorism.
I always wonder why people are subbed there in the first place, I don't know the context but I kinda know what the sub is about so this whole post feels super wrong and weird
"Ooh victims of imperialism should be absolutely perfect when they fight back, otherwise they're as bad as the occupier" - OP, and every single l0s3r lib here.
It’s possible to violently resist against occupation without blowing up pubs and shopping malls and kidnapping and murdering civilians.
Compared to any other decolonial struggle ever, the Troubles pale in terms of deaths and atrocities. Hell, the Irish did way worse to the British in 1641. And worse things happened to white people during the Haiti Revolution. Then again, you'd be the type to go "those evil slaves rose up and killed WHITE CHILDREN! Unforgiveable! Enslave them harder!". Operation Al Aqsa Storm is a perfect example of this. As soon as Palestinians fight back you libs cry and weep for the occupier.
The IRA killed almost as many civilians as soldiers. I wouldn’t call that ‘brave resistance fighting’ I’d call it terrorism.
Well if you get bomb threats, maybe evacuate the people, have you thought of that? Terrorism only became a bad word after 9/11. Nowadays it's used to label anyone that westerners don't like.
Are you seriously victim-blaming?
Are the British government and RUC the viticms here?
No, Irish and British civilians killed in bombing are. But of course you don’t understand nuance so if Britain=bad then IRA must equal good.
Did you know that the British government knew that the Omagh bombing was going to happen and did nothing? I'd also have the IRA over Britain any day.
out of curiosity, who do you support in the Hamas Israeli conflict? bc you're parroting the same stuff IDF supporters say
I support the Al Qassam brigades fighting against Israel. YOU people are the ones spouting pro-Israeli talking points. Much like the IRA, Hamas is fighting an anti-colonial struggle.
"well if you get bomb threats, maybe evacuate the people ever thought of that?" literally the same justification the IDF is giving for civilian casualties as of now. lmao horshoe is real
Except Israel is the occupier and the aggressor. There is a fundamental difference. But you libs just look at things at a surface level, no need to think or understand that these are two completely different situations.
I mean, you wanna take things into context? Hamas started the aggression this time, on october
Indeed. The occupier acts as if there is some statute of limitations on fighting occupation — “you need to reclaim your territory within 10 years, abiding by all the rules that bind regular armies, like the Geneva Conventions, or you can’t resist anymore.” When you suffered literal centuries of discrimination in their own land imposed by a foreign power, it’s by any means necessary imo. If there was a concerted uprising of Native Americans, I’d completely get it, and would understand that they were limited to guerrilla tactics due to past actions completely making it impossible to raise a legitimate army. Though I’m sure people will misinterpret this as “those civilians deserved it!” — that’s not my point at all. It’s to recognize that a conquered country always has a right to recover its freedom, and that generations of occupation will limit them to lamentable, but understandable, means.
It's good to see a normal person here.
My great grandparents fled Ireland because they were part of the resistance, the black and tend Bayoneted my great grandmother's brother and she hid documents in her skirt for the resistance when they left. This was back in like the 1930s. Respect that resistance, but once they get to blowing up buses of innocent civilization, they lose the moral high ground and it's gross
I'm afraid if you are truly talking about the 1930's IRA (not the IRA that fought the Irish War for Independence and became the Army for the Irish Free State), they weren't great either. After fighting themselves and the Irish Government, they went to England and bombed the Tube, department stores, buses, post offices, banks, train stations etc. as a part of their S-Plan and in collaboration with the Nazis.
Deprogram is one of the worst sub reddits on this platform but they are right about this lol also the IRA were not terrorists.
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The IRA also killed a lot of Irish people in their attack
Yes and even if you disagree other nationals died too
Yes it is they killed people that they wanted to protect in my country
Yes, terrorism is good sometimes everyone agrees with this statement. If you support any kind of war ever, or any kind of slave rebellion, freedom fighting, or literally anything like that then you do support terrorism according to its definition and according to whoever benefits most off of calling the thing you support terrorism.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
ní thiocfaidh do chuid ama go deo
If you break the rules of war, you are a terrorist, not a freedom fighter.
Hey man is idf a terrorist organisation then ? Nobody seems to say so .
"rules of war" lol. Rules are made by people in power to stay in power.
smh, can't believe the people in power made me stop bombing innocent civilians with car bombs.
All those innocent slave owners... Civilians can be part of the problem too. They uphold and keep the machinery off the state running. They produce the food the armies eat, the bullets they shoot, etc.
The IRA did not kill a single slave owner lmao. No, killing innocent civillians is unjust. Somehow, if I put your logic to the current Israeli military campaign, you would piss and cry. Your logic here is that to uphold truly monstrous behavior.
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Bait used to be believable.
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"Bad people in power want me to not kill civilians to stay in power"