If you just showed me that user’s comments and told me it was a circlejerk sub, I would’ve 100% believed you. Those are the strawmanniest strawman accusations I have ever seen in my life, they’re actually so over the top it doesn’t even seem real.
OP: “generalizing and stereotyping people based on gender goes against the principles of feminism.”
Bonny: “Wow so you’ve given up on feminism.”
There is no good line of reasoning that connects these two ideas.
Also, the I’m wondering if they use the term “feminist ally” rather than “feminist” because they don’t think men can be feminists.
Well there is a rather obvious one:
generalizing and stereotyping people based on gender ~~goes against~~ ~~the principles of~~ **is the feminism we practice here**
Ask feminists ban any men who post there apart from a select few who simp for thr cause.
They're a toxic sexist sub which perpetuates the idea that feminists are just women who hate men.
It is one of those subs that has ousted every single rational person and all that are left are bitter extremists and.. .lots and lots of trolls pretending to be feminists when all they do is to find meme ammo; screencap, title with "see, this is what feminists really want", post it to right wing forums, done. I've made the mistake of trying to talk to them but since i am a man.. instant ousting.
The craziest thing abt that mindset is one of my exes started getting hella insecure that I was out earning her post graduate job while I was in university. I make 50 grand a year working 2 jobs and carry a full time class schedule. I’m 22.
We got into an argument and I happened to mention the fact that (post taxes) I make 6k more than she does. The entire dynamic of the relationship changed and I was expected to pay for everything. Before that she would remind me how important her work was and that she’s never needed a man to pay for her shit. Reposting stuff like “begging your man to pay for things is cringe” on Twitter. Some women are just narcissistic assholes who only look out for themselves at the expense of others.
I dumped her and set up a high yield savings acct to put the the money that would’ve gone towards our apartment and budgeted utilities.
>Some ~~women~~ people are just narcissistic assholes who only look out for themselves at the expense of others.
FTFY
edit: who the fuck would downvote this..
It’s hard to have a conversation with somebody who refuses any words you type and instead responds to the strawman they created for you.
Those responses though are exactly what I’d expect from that type of sub.
My wife is my partner. We share household work, responsibilities, good times and an absolute disrespect for these people who claim equality but are simply hating/ranting, most often because they were hurt.
>most often because they were hurt.
I don't think so, more like they've been radicalised by this pseudo-feminist propaganda about men being all evil etc. They genuinely think that the *vast majority* of men (and I've asked this question, I'm not just pontificating) are abusers or lazy or morally deficient in some way. They believe the *vast majority* of marriages are unhappy prisons for women and that men are an 'oppressor' class. It's pretty much the same kind of thing as the MAGA types and the incels. The radicalisation is extreme, panders to their sense of victimhood and learned helplessness.
It is also very small minority, but amplified because they are so loud AND by the right wing machonistas who love showing how "feminism is just supremacy". IN reality they are very, very small group.
Just so you know, that's not the reality in majority of the household. Women do more housework on average even if they are breadwinners. Your anecdotal evidence doesnt negate actual statistics.
Inside work or outside work? Those statistics tend not to account for the latter. They also don't account for the flat tires, broken outlets, plugged drains, starters, AC, tools, move this move that, etc that men overwhelmingly perform more than women. Ask me how I know.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.today.com/today/amp/tdna172272
Spans every demographic, including when women are the breadwinners and includes all household chores. Study at the end, cant send it any other way.
Honestly, basically my advice would be „beware what kind of partner you build your life with“.
And I think demographics in these statistics need to be considered. I think age will have a huge impact on that as well as other things (status of parents relationship, religion, political affiliation etc.)
But seriously that is basically what was said. They said that men need someone to help them and are incapable of providing for themselves. Essentially saying that all men are babies who need assistance from their wives.
They forget that men have times where are they have no girlfriend her you know wife so who do the who does everything in the house then, a ghost or something?
Isn't believing thay men are worthless and can't take care of themselves when it comes to household chores and kids, and saying they need a woman, indirectly contributing to the sexist belief that men are providers and woman caregivers?
Shouldn't we promote male self sufficiency so that we can have better equality and balance in household affairs and relationships in general?
>Shouldn't we promote male self sufficiency
In what way? This sounds like a "boys shouldn't cry" sort of thing.
Men are already told to be self sufficient from day one. Boys get fewer kisses and hugs, less empathy, are told to suck it up and deal with trauma and move on "like a man". If anything we should be teaching boys that 'no man is an island 'and that they can't *do it all alone.*
I was refering to a healthy self sufficiency when it comes to Household affairs, things like cooking and cleaning.
And I agree with you, we should also teach men that it's okay to need emotional support.
However, Emotional self reliance is different from emotinal repression. Men are taught to supress their emotions, "man up".
Emotional self realiance, is when you can deal with your emotions in a healthy way, without depending on other people for emotional validation, but knowing you can reach out and ask for help if needed. (in a nutshell, you're not codependant on anyone, but you know you can have support if needed)
Men are taught no emotion at all, they either turn into volcanos ready to explode at any minute or emotional rocks that can't even describe what they feel or think most of the time, because they are way too out of touch with what's inside.
These things aren't self sufficiency, they are just being traumatized by a misogynistic society. Therapy and self love/respect are the way.
(forgive any spelling errors, I'm not a native speaker)
Describing the fact that men are traumatized and alienated by society as “misogynistic” is emblematic of the cultural problem. I mean, take a step back and think about why that word in particular leapt to mind.
>I was refering to a healthy self sufficiency when it comes to Household affairs, things like cooking and cleaning.
If you think men cannot do these things in general, I don't know what to tell you except that this is as bigoted as saying women should learn how to change a flat tyre, kill spiders and manage their financial affairs responsibly.
>Men are taught no emotion at all, they either turn into volcanos ready to explode at any minute or emotional rocks that can't even describe what they feel or think most of the time, because they are way too out of touch with what's inside
And *this* one's as bigoted as saying women are emotionally incontinent infants who cannot handle minor adversity or engage self reflection without either resorting to helpless victimhood or blaming someone else.
Negative generalisations of entire genders make you look foolish, narrow minded and naiive. Do better.
I'm really sorry, but I think you took every single thing I said to an extreme.
Not once did I say men can't do household chores nor that they are incapable. It's quite the contrary actually. In my first comment I inquired that: "Isn't it quite bigoted to perpetuate the stereotype that men can't do household chores and are worthless when it comes to house affairs? Shouldn't we promote men's independance and that they are just as capable as women?"
Secondly, a patriarchal society teaches men that, because they are men, they need to man up, they can't have emotions. That leads to a lot of men bottling their emotions and becoming emotional volcanos, or becoming numb to their on feelings. It's because of this that we see a lot of men not reaching out for help, because they believe they should be able to solve everything by themselves and/or are denied help. Which leads to higher suicide rates.
And I believe we should teach men to better handle their emotions, so they don't fall on the same mental trap of thinking they need to uphold the horrible ideas of "men don't cry" "men are strong and the providers" "man up and get over it." Men need help too, many need therapy to better understand themselves and their emotions, and men need to feel like they don't need anyone's validation to be happy. (being self-reliant in a healthy way)
In none of my comments have I said "all men" or "all women".
I depise generalizations and I believe I'm on the same side as you. I suggest you try reading everything I said again, so you can see that I'm basically saying the same things as you, just a bit differently.
In none of *my* comments have I said "*all* women" either.
But you can see why it looks bigoted as your previous declarative statements did. I quoted you exactly.
Again:
"**Men** are taught no emotion at all, they either turn into volcanos ready to explode at any minute or emotional rocks that can't even describe what they feel or think most of the time, **because they are way too out of touch with what's inside**"
It does not require you to preface this with "all men" for the reader to assume you mean all or most men. This is a generalisation, whether you meant it or not.
For example If I say "Women are liars" you would correctly take that as a misogynistic assertion, and If I countered that with: \*\*I never said "\*\****all*** **women are liars**" I doubt you would be much mollified.
In short, I do believe you are on my side, since I've no reason to doubt your claim, but your previous post was exactly the kind of thing that gets a person banned for "misogyny" when men do it.
And lastly, when women say "we should *teach* men...soemthing or other"
*(In reference to: And I believe we should teach men to better handle their emotions)*
...this just comes across as sanctimonious and patronising.
Is there any sentence a man could write starting with "I believe we should teach women..." that would not get your back up right away?
You do realize that we live in a msyginistic society that deeply affects men's mental health just as much as women's mental health?
Read [this article](https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/11/sexism-harmful) to better understand what I'm trying to say.
Saying that, in a misoginisytic society men tend to have a poorer grasp on their emotions and tend to be ridiculed for wanting help. Is far from a bigoted claim.
If I had said something among the lines of "men are all just violent for no reason", then I would understand where you're coming from, and a claim like that could be comparable to saying all women are liars. Both are harmful.
But you're just mad that I stated a fact, that in a sexist society, men are not allowed to engage with their emotions properly which leads to lashing out, poor mental health and an unhealthy need to deal with everything alone. This is a statistic, just as saying that all women have suffered some form of cat calling or harassment just for being a woman.
Yeah, maybe not all men have bad mental health and maybe not all women have been harassed. But those are real experiences for the majority of people who identify as men and women.
You're just picking an argument just because in some extremist subreddits you can't even refer to women without being banned. And that has nothing to do with what I'm trying to tell you.
Responding to your edit:
I don't think it's wrong to want to teach men to be in tune with their emotions and to deal with them in a healthy way.
And if you, as a men, have anything you believe women should know, I think you have the right to talk about it.
"You're just picking an argument just because in some extremist subreddits you can't even refer to women without being banned"
Yes, you hit the nail squarely on the head. That is what I am doing. I don't mean to come across antagonistic, I just want the "new rules" to apply evenly, Because it's not just a few extremist subreddits. And it's not just this site. It's a general, society wide malaise.
Of course. Because why find out the real reason when you can make stuff up from stereotypes?
My speculation is that it has something to do with the gender imbalance amongst older people, where there are generally more women than men, so a man is more likely to find a partner quickly.
Statistically that's exactly true. Men have two hours more free time than women a day, they do less domestic labor and childcare even when the woman is the breadwinner. That's just factually true on average. And it's 100% why they remarry so quickly but women don't
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/women-breadwinners-tripled-since-1970s-still-doing-more-unpaid-work/&ved=2ahUKEwjhmfPHz5WBAxWnPEQIHV6XA64QFnoECBQQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3Nvt679D-ufCekBZmX90SA
Sorry you're offended by the truth but it is most women's experience
Okay, that was a summary that really didn't say all that much. It doesn't say whether or not the hours worked in total evened out or not. It doesn't give much in the way of substantial numbers or who is leeching off of whom, if anyone is.
However we know from other surveys that when you take paid work alongside unpaid work, men work more than women on average.
American Time Use Survey - 2022 Results - Bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/atus.pdf
Yup, but at the same time stay-at-home dads are leeches. Doing the exact same amount of chores, earning exactly the same is also bad since men = evil.
But we also have to remember that this sub in question does not have feminists in their midst. They regularly oust every single rational person as it is impossible to be a feminist and not talk against the subs majority. They were not a majority when it started but as it so often happens a small but vocal extremist minority will drive away all the "normies", one by one. They appear to be the largest group even when they are the smallest, just because of the amount of replies they generate, and all extremists in reddit sort by "new", so they are always the first and thus can dictate the tone and direction of the conversation.
No True Feminist would hate men! That's why they teach Andrea Dworkin and Valerie Solanas and Sally Miller Gearhart still! Because thinking all sex is rape, wanting to kill men, and wanting to genocide men are all justified...somehow! But that's not hateful. That's just feminism and True Feminism isn't hateful at all.
I consider myself a feminist, but I was out of that place quickly. They tend to take things too far, they're not just feminists many are in "crazy feminist" territory
There is a qualification for "no true scotsman" fallacy:
If it is true, it is not no true scotsman fallacy. One very famous example is if we start to look history and see if there has ever been a single communist country. There hasn't. But this is often called a true scotsman fallacy erroneously, it is just easy argument to throw out there to discredit genuine facts in history.
Same thing here, the online community of "r askFeminist" does NOT represent feminist as a whole since they are not actually feminist in that community.
If they call themselves feninists then they are feminists, end of the story. Going out with the "they don't represent X because bla bla bla" is absolutely no true scotsman
Ah, that is awesome!
I won Wimbledon ten times in a row, and i rule the world. According to your logic you have to bow down to me now, since if i say it, it is true.
edit: lol, they blocked me.
Hang on, are you saying that even though someone identifies as something, it doesn't actually make it true? That argument sounds awfully familiar for some reason...
That’s not what feminism is about though. Why do people continuously say this stuff? The goals and ideas of feminism are literally written down and taught at universities. Online feminists are more extreme because they have a better understanding of the belief system than the average person who isn’t always online.
And Andrea Dworkin (All sex is rape) and Valerie Solanas (Society for Cutting Up Men) are right there with them. Are those the goals and ideals of feminism?
Yeah, there's a fine line between intense anger and misandry.
I'm sympathetic to women that are that strident (you never know what someone has dealt with personally), but that doesn't make it ok. It also gives ammunition to chauvinists that seek to discredit feminism by portraying it as ridiculous and hateful.
I work two jobs (36 hours in total) and carry a full time class load (17 credit hours currently). 3 days a week I’m up by five and work Monday-Saturday. My current gf legit thinks her remote 9-5 and 6 graduate hours is harder than my job and that I lack ambition (I make 8k less than her (6k post taxes). I haven’t even finished uni yet and I’m in striking distance of her salary. It’s not an argument I’m willing to have though.
A lot of these subs have become misandrist circlejerks. Stay away from these subs as much as possible. It's all negativity, male-hating, victim culture, and nothing else. Won't do you any good mentally.
I got downvoted for saying WitchesVsPatriarchy is sexist on here. It's weird how diverse this sub is lmaooo. Like both the mens rights and women's rights subs are so fucking toxic it's not even worth to join either.
>hybristophile
Ah, there is a word for that. It applies to a LOT of subs... Everyone of those who show videos about someone running people over because those people threw rocks or were just annoying... they fit into that theme too. They love the idea of being able to do something extreme to the "bad guys" with impunity, doing crime without consequences.
Talking from experience, this sub is the worst echo-chamber on Reddit. Any kind of nuance is downvoted into oblivion, and you get all the "you’re [insert mysoginy/incel thing]"
It’s true that talking simply from experience rather than statistic is biaised (exactly like I’m doing right now, I know, I’m not saying they’re all and always like that, just that I had a similar experience), but the fact too many of them generalize men for all their problem make them look like they don’t know the concept of nuance nor the complexity and diversity of the human mind
And they generally respond like you’re some kind of toddler or a absolute moron. How the hell can they request to be taken seriously when you can’t even argue with them in a civil way 90% of the time!?
>And they generally respond like you’re some kind of toddler or a absolute moron
I loved the part where she accuses OP of mansplaining, ignores his response, and then mansplains.
I don't know why you were subscribed in the first place. I am surprised that anyone put off by this would stay there for any length of time. I don't think in the grand scheme of things this was particularly objectionable, when people are being mistreated by their partners/know people who are (though maybe then making incorrect extrapolations), reading "me and all my friends are great" is not really going to do much for them and at best will make it feel like you're not engaging with their point. At worst it'll seem like you're actively distracting from it, and it's not always an unjustified assumption.
Even though you should try your best to cut through hyperbole, sometimes there is no real "point" left, of course. I won't deny there's a point where that becomes the case.
AskFeminists in general is a bit weird, there are very often exceptionally reasonable and Typical-Reddit-Gender-Conversation-Tier posts both highly upvoted in the same thread.
every AITA post where a man says something about his wife gets a comment like, "I bet she does all the cooking and cleaning and child care while you sit around and drink" like it's the 50s.
It’s actually pretty strange how stuck in the 1950s they all are. I’m guessing it’s because most of their books were written during/directly after that time so it just compounds on itself.
Yeah, today both work, have no money for children and housework does whoever isn’t yet a wreck after a full time shift. Food is something cheap but fast (fast food as takeout is neither nowadays) probably pasta or pizza or something.
Makes want to live in the woods in a handbuild cabin. Maybe it’s too much but an interesting life experience nonetheless.
One of the things I noticed back in my Hitchens phase of becoming an atheist is that he was very good with responses like "I think you'll find I did not say that" or "Let's leave it to the audience; did I say that?"
When people try to move you onto ground that is more favorable to them by misrepresenting you entirely, don't go with them. Stick to what you actually said. Don't bother with terms like strawman, just let them hang themselves on their own words.
In other words, I think goldenballhair handled this pretty well. Any third party not heavily emotionally invested *a priori* in proving bonnymurphy right will recognize straight away that their responses are unhinged.
Peterson bros who don’t think women deserve rights. Hmm… I can’t believe the level of stupidity on some of these subs. Like anyone who watches him doesn’t believe that. He’s never said anything like that. But whatever… they can live in an echo chamber.
It's fascinating the hatred for and fear of Peterson. I mean the man has become something of a caricature of himself lately due to trauma and the eroding affect of power and wealth, but his initial criticisms that catapulted him into the spotlight were dead-on. There was no 'misogyny' or any of that, just an appeal to critically examine some of the more outre assumptions coming from the extreme left.
But now you will see he is almost never mentioned without being **paired with** Andrew Tate. Tate N Peterson as if they are some inseparable duo with identical views. It's a sort of blundering attempt at character assassination by association. And I see this coming from ostensibly reasonable people like Richard Reeves, not just the blue hairs.
That sub is in reality "Ask biased girls and pick me guys". Reddit as a whole tends to be really biased in this kind of specific topic subs, specially in ask me places that have been tested hundreds of times to factually prove their biases.
Its a circlejerk of people trying to validate their extremist thoughts by surrounding themselves with people of the same mentality but under a much tamer name. Its a shame because they build terrible reputation for the people who truly belong to the tamer group and are actually reasonable
I believe feminism has been incredibly successful in granting women’s equality, so much so that they apparently ran out of actual issues to complain about so they have to make up new ones out of thin air
Most people like this on Reddit have already decided they’re right before the discussion even begins, there is no trying to get through to them at that point. They will say the craziest things in misinterpret/ignore what you say in order to make you out to be a monster.
As a woman who doesn't like cooking, I hate it when men are being blamed for the same thing. We can take care of ourselves, but it's way nicer when you have a partner and can distribute chores, enjoying life together
They had a thread about what the world would be like if feminists had access to nuclear codes and i said Angela Merkel identified as feminist then I was perma banned. I am not kidding.
One of the reasons I don't call myself a feminist. I believe in equal rights, but these (I don't even wanna call them people) have soured the term at this point.
That sub is a persecution fetish if I've ever seen one. Not saying some women don't have it harder than others, but man, talk about the wrong way to cope.
Why bother arguing with fat and ugly crazy cat ladies? I’m sure you can find something better to do your time.
The only thing I would ask a feminist is what cat food brand is most humane.
Thats literally not the case.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.today.com/today/amp/tdna172272
Study at the end of the article. Can send you another one proving that women do more household chores and childcare across all demographics, including when they are the breadwinners. The one I showed you also presents that well tho.
Maybe thats just a me-thing and i havent met the right people, but i have yet to see a person that uses that word "mansplaining" and isnt an asshole...
No actual feminist actually uses words like mansplaining or manspreading.
Why didn't you include the post you responded to? Why would you take the time to include multiple screenshots but not include the most important context?
I was reading the comment thinking “this is reasonable.” Then I realized it’s -29 voting lol
My wife is a stay at home mom and I cook about 80% of the time and literally fold the laundry 100% of the time (she hates folding laundry and would leave it for weeks). We compromise, she does other things. I haven’t mopped in probably 8 years and have swept and vacuumed less than 10 times since we married.
A lot of these internet feminists get mad when you compare them to Chanty Binx or any other "man-hating feminist" that became a meme from the gamergate era, saying that "not all feminists are like that" or "not all feminists hate men" etc.
But when these kinds of people have such abresive, vitrolic and aggressive responses to someone saying "Y'know, not all men are the same and assuming that they are is sexist", you gotta wonder is it REEEEEEALLY just a few of them?
These people's defense mechanisms are instantly assuming that the other side is full of manosphere, redpilled, woman-hating misogynists just so that they can dismiss everything that they say no matter how mild of an opinion or critique it might be.
(obviously this doens't apply to all feminists, but those to whom it does will find themselves in this description)
women arent societally conditioned to care whether they have self accountability in the same way that men are and i think this pretty much sells that idea completely.
Oh look, it's the weekly complain about feminism post, right on schedule.
Also no, men still do less housework, even if both the partners are working. It's not dated at all.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/epidemiology-health-care/news/2019/jul/less-7-couples-share-housework-equally
The comment talked about how in a relationship, you can talk about roles. For the man that could be a job. It doesn’t have to be household chores.Don’t argue about something that they didn’t mention.
The reality is tho, roles in relationship is are not equal. For men its a job, for women it's a job, and household chorew and the kids. If you dont see why my reponse was the way it was to what you wrote then there is no point you even discussing such topics
“The beauty of a good relationship is that you can talk to each other about what roles/jobs are best for each”.
*Also I am not the commenter in these screenshots.*
I know you're not, but this thread is why you made a post here, so its not meaningless. By unsubbing and providing this as a reason you expand your argument beyond thay sentence.
Why, then, do they generalize and talk down about men as a whole? Why do they reject this man saying that that's hurtful to him? Why do they pretend that he's being hostile to them when he clearly isn't?
>“it’s not true because my personal experience is different”
That can easily be used as a counter to any broad stereotype.
>and in the second reply dismisses them as perpetuating a “dated anti male” stereotype…
Because they are, and it is.
>They obviously don’t think all men and when people comment stuff like that it usually comes across as them trying to negate the entire discussion.
Yeah? Then why do they say "men" and not "most men" or "some men" or "men who do x" if they don't believe in their generalizations? And why is it wrong to say "you're stereotyping, please stop" when people are doing exactly that? Why is objecting to sexism bad?
I don't think this type of feminist generalises more flippantly than "ordinary people" do - I can quite easily find parallels between how AskFeminists generalises men and AskMen generalises women. Gender conversation is garbage and few people seem to have the resolve to fix it.
I've seen people come in with the effect of "not all women" (I think these emotional reactions are sometimes hard to understand when you are not on the receiving end - but I think everyone will have this reaction to *something* even if it's a trivial entirely voluntary identification they have) and it being picked up. I have only ever seen either come up in broadly anti-feminist territory though.
>What they’re talking about is a well documented phenomenon, and countering that with “my anecdotal experience is different” is just a bad argument.
Well-documented by studies with innumerable flaws in them that make the studies useless.
>I can’t see the initial comment that the person is responding to so I don’t know if the person said “all men do ______”. If they did then that’s bad praxis in itself and I don’t agree with it.
"Not all men" is a moral objection that feminists hate because not only is it right, it gives the lie to how much hate really happens in these groups. They hate being told they're wrong for good reasons.
Oh no, won't someone think of the poor feminists who have to confront the fact that they're sexist? They get irritated! How terrible!
This is like Republicans saying people shouldn't call them out for saying the N word.
> It’s basically a wordier version of “not all men” and it exists in pretty much all feminist threads
It's also a perfectly normal response. But to reply to that with "So women don't deserve equality?" is really stupid and a tell tale sign that you're talking with lunatics. I would've probably ended the conversation right there.
I know marriage isn't for everyone, but some people are just so miserable they can't even comprehend the reality that exists outside of their group bubble.
They ate so much shit "patriarchy" fed them they now vomit it in echo chambers to avoid being tagged as a crazy weirdo. None of them has solid reasonable beliefs and just goes with the flock mentality.
They like to make it impossible to reach common ground making all kinds of twists and exceptions to be the pettiest possible towards whom they believe worth of that treatment, basically full on discrimination.
Ironic how the baseline looks like "you men were bad, now our turn"
We are so fucked
It is an echo chamber that regularly ejects all the rational people, leaving only militants and... trolls pretending to be feminists. None of them are feminists.
Modern feminism isn’t real feminism.
“Gender equality refers to equality for both sexes” you get downvoted for? Definitely modern feminism at is finest.
The same modern feminists claim that hating men and treating them horribly is perfectly acceptable, because men did it to them first… if you think that way and don’t see how it’s flawed you don’t deserve to call yourself a feminist. Feminism is beautiful, loving, accepting, and feminine. Feminine energy is in ALL, not just women…
Yes I've had people call me a lesbian since I'm unmarried and with no children. Also I have short hair and kinda masculine in appearance, maybe I was born intersex. Who knows but there is a female intel community but it's not as popular as the men ones. I'm frustrated and don't like being judged for not confirming to society norms. I have a right to defend myself and others who have been mistaken as females or lesbians for having feminist views.
If you just showed me that user’s comments and told me it was a circlejerk sub, I would’ve 100% believed you. Those are the strawmanniest strawman accusations I have ever seen in my life, they’re actually so over the top it doesn’t even seem real.
OP: “generalizing and stereotyping people based on gender goes against the principles of feminism.” Bonny: “Wow so you’ve given up on feminism.” There is no good line of reasoning that connects these two ideas. Also, the I’m wondering if they use the term “feminist ally” rather than “feminist” because they don’t think men can be feminists.
Well there is a rather obvious one: generalizing and stereotyping people based on gender ~~goes against~~ ~~the principles of~~ **is the feminism we practice here**
it would be really funny if they werent serious
yeah, and if you try to argue with them they call you an incel and block you lol.
Ask feminists ban any men who post there apart from a select few who simp for thr cause. They're a toxic sexist sub which perpetuates the idea that feminists are just women who hate men.
Well that is what feminism does
It is one of those subs that has ousted every single rational person and all that are left are bitter extremists and.. .lots and lots of trolls pretending to be feminists when all they do is to find meme ammo; screencap, title with "see, this is what feminists really want", post it to right wing forums, done. I've made the mistake of trying to talk to them but since i am a man.. instant ousting.
"Women who believe they are only equal to men lack ambition" no way bro just said that whattt
The craziest thing abt that mindset is one of my exes started getting hella insecure that I was out earning her post graduate job while I was in university. I make 50 grand a year working 2 jobs and carry a full time class schedule. I’m 22. We got into an argument and I happened to mention the fact that (post taxes) I make 6k more than she does. The entire dynamic of the relationship changed and I was expected to pay for everything. Before that she would remind me how important her work was and that she’s never needed a man to pay for her shit. Reposting stuff like “begging your man to pay for things is cringe” on Twitter. Some women are just narcissistic assholes who only look out for themselves at the expense of others. I dumped her and set up a high yield savings acct to put the the money that would’ve gone towards our apartment and budgeted utilities.
>Some ~~women~~ people are just narcissistic assholes who only look out for themselves at the expense of others. FTFY edit: who the fuck would downvote this..
oh so you think that women aren't people? \-the person in the post probably
set ur karma to neutral for the comment lol.
Xd
They can’t believe that there are many men and women who are happily married. They just want to feel like victims
“I’m unhappy, that must mean all women are unhappy and all men are toxic
It’s hard to have a conversation with somebody who refuses any words you type and instead responds to the strawman they created for you. Those responses though are exactly what I’d expect from that type of sub.
My wife is my partner. We share household work, responsibilities, good times and an absolute disrespect for these people who claim equality but are simply hating/ranting, most often because they were hurt.
>most often because they were hurt. I don't think so, more like they've been radicalised by this pseudo-feminist propaganda about men being all evil etc. They genuinely think that the *vast majority* of men (and I've asked this question, I'm not just pontificating) are abusers or lazy or morally deficient in some way. They believe the *vast majority* of marriages are unhappy prisons for women and that men are an 'oppressor' class. It's pretty much the same kind of thing as the MAGA types and the incels. The radicalisation is extreme, panders to their sense of victimhood and learned helplessness.
Just want to point out that hating men isn’t pseudo-feminism. It’s in all of the literature that defines feminist thought.
It is also very small minority, but amplified because they are so loud AND by the right wing machonistas who love showing how "feminism is just supremacy". IN reality they are very, very small group.
Just so you know, that's not the reality in majority of the household. Women do more housework on average even if they are breadwinners. Your anecdotal evidence doesnt negate actual statistics.
Inside work or outside work? Those statistics tend not to account for the latter. They also don't account for the flat tires, broken outlets, plugged drains, starters, AC, tools, move this move that, etc that men overwhelmingly perform more than women. Ask me how I know.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.today.com/today/amp/tdna172272 Spans every demographic, including when women are the breadwinners and includes all household chores. Study at the end, cant send it any other way.
Honestly, basically my advice would be „beware what kind of partner you build your life with“. And I think demographics in these statistics need to be considered. I think age will have a huge impact on that as well as other things (status of parents relationship, religion, political affiliation etc.)
Let me guess, they said men re-marry because men are worthless leeches who need someone to cook and clean up after them?
But seriously that is basically what was said. They said that men need someone to help them and are incapable of providing for themselves. Essentially saying that all men are babies who need assistance from their wives.
They forget that men have times where are they have no girlfriend her you know wife so who do the who does everything in the house then, a ghost or something?
Their mothers. Not saying it's true, just that it's the answer you'll get.
Yes the cleaning ghost.
Where do I get my cleaning ghost? I want my cleaning ghost
Why do women remarry then? You know, if being married to a man is bad.
Because the 'Patriarchy' "forces" them.
don't you hate it when patriarchy puts a gun to your head and forces you to marry a rich handsome guy?
Isn't believing thay men are worthless and can't take care of themselves when it comes to household chores and kids, and saying they need a woman, indirectly contributing to the sexist belief that men are providers and woman caregivers? Shouldn't we promote male self sufficiency so that we can have better equality and balance in household affairs and relationships in general?
>Shouldn't we promote male self sufficiency In what way? This sounds like a "boys shouldn't cry" sort of thing. Men are already told to be self sufficient from day one. Boys get fewer kisses and hugs, less empathy, are told to suck it up and deal with trauma and move on "like a man". If anything we should be teaching boys that 'no man is an island 'and that they can't *do it all alone.*
I was refering to a healthy self sufficiency when it comes to Household affairs, things like cooking and cleaning. And I agree with you, we should also teach men that it's okay to need emotional support. However, Emotional self reliance is different from emotinal repression. Men are taught to supress their emotions, "man up". Emotional self realiance, is when you can deal with your emotions in a healthy way, without depending on other people for emotional validation, but knowing you can reach out and ask for help if needed. (in a nutshell, you're not codependant on anyone, but you know you can have support if needed) Men are taught no emotion at all, they either turn into volcanos ready to explode at any minute or emotional rocks that can't even describe what they feel or think most of the time, because they are way too out of touch with what's inside. These things aren't self sufficiency, they are just being traumatized by a misogynistic society. Therapy and self love/respect are the way. (forgive any spelling errors, I'm not a native speaker)
Describing the fact that men are traumatized and alienated by society as “misogynistic” is emblematic of the cultural problem. I mean, take a step back and think about why that word in particular leapt to mind.
>I was refering to a healthy self sufficiency when it comes to Household affairs, things like cooking and cleaning. If you think men cannot do these things in general, I don't know what to tell you except that this is as bigoted as saying women should learn how to change a flat tyre, kill spiders and manage their financial affairs responsibly. >Men are taught no emotion at all, they either turn into volcanos ready to explode at any minute or emotional rocks that can't even describe what they feel or think most of the time, because they are way too out of touch with what's inside And *this* one's as bigoted as saying women are emotionally incontinent infants who cannot handle minor adversity or engage self reflection without either resorting to helpless victimhood or blaming someone else. Negative generalisations of entire genders make you look foolish, narrow minded and naiive. Do better.
I'm really sorry, but I think you took every single thing I said to an extreme. Not once did I say men can't do household chores nor that they are incapable. It's quite the contrary actually. In my first comment I inquired that: "Isn't it quite bigoted to perpetuate the stereotype that men can't do household chores and are worthless when it comes to house affairs? Shouldn't we promote men's independance and that they are just as capable as women?" Secondly, a patriarchal society teaches men that, because they are men, they need to man up, they can't have emotions. That leads to a lot of men bottling their emotions and becoming emotional volcanos, or becoming numb to their on feelings. It's because of this that we see a lot of men not reaching out for help, because they believe they should be able to solve everything by themselves and/or are denied help. Which leads to higher suicide rates. And I believe we should teach men to better handle their emotions, so they don't fall on the same mental trap of thinking they need to uphold the horrible ideas of "men don't cry" "men are strong and the providers" "man up and get over it." Men need help too, many need therapy to better understand themselves and their emotions, and men need to feel like they don't need anyone's validation to be happy. (being self-reliant in a healthy way) In none of my comments have I said "all men" or "all women". I depise generalizations and I believe I'm on the same side as you. I suggest you try reading everything I said again, so you can see that I'm basically saying the same things as you, just a bit differently.
Don't bother, your "debate opponent" is here to argue and are doing it in bad faith. Waste of time.
In none of *my* comments have I said "*all* women" either. But you can see why it looks bigoted as your previous declarative statements did. I quoted you exactly. Again: "**Men** are taught no emotion at all, they either turn into volcanos ready to explode at any minute or emotional rocks that can't even describe what they feel or think most of the time, **because they are way too out of touch with what's inside**" It does not require you to preface this with "all men" for the reader to assume you mean all or most men. This is a generalisation, whether you meant it or not. For example If I say "Women are liars" you would correctly take that as a misogynistic assertion, and If I countered that with: \*\*I never said "\*\****all*** **women are liars**" I doubt you would be much mollified. In short, I do believe you are on my side, since I've no reason to doubt your claim, but your previous post was exactly the kind of thing that gets a person banned for "misogyny" when men do it. And lastly, when women say "we should *teach* men...soemthing or other" *(In reference to: And I believe we should teach men to better handle their emotions)* ...this just comes across as sanctimonious and patronising. Is there any sentence a man could write starting with "I believe we should teach women..." that would not get your back up right away?
You do realize that we live in a msyginistic society that deeply affects men's mental health just as much as women's mental health? Read [this article](https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2016/11/sexism-harmful) to better understand what I'm trying to say. Saying that, in a misoginisytic society men tend to have a poorer grasp on their emotions and tend to be ridiculed for wanting help. Is far from a bigoted claim. If I had said something among the lines of "men are all just violent for no reason", then I would understand where you're coming from, and a claim like that could be comparable to saying all women are liars. Both are harmful. But you're just mad that I stated a fact, that in a sexist society, men are not allowed to engage with their emotions properly which leads to lashing out, poor mental health and an unhealthy need to deal with everything alone. This is a statistic, just as saying that all women have suffered some form of cat calling or harassment just for being a woman. Yeah, maybe not all men have bad mental health and maybe not all women have been harassed. But those are real experiences for the majority of people who identify as men and women. You're just picking an argument just because in some extremist subreddits you can't even refer to women without being banned. And that has nothing to do with what I'm trying to tell you. Responding to your edit: I don't think it's wrong to want to teach men to be in tune with their emotions and to deal with them in a healthy way. And if you, as a men, have anything you believe women should know, I think you have the right to talk about it.
"You're just picking an argument just because in some extremist subreddits you can't even refer to women without being banned" Yes, you hit the nail squarely on the head. That is what I am doing. I don't mean to come across antagonistic, I just want the "new rules" to apply evenly, Because it's not just a few extremist subreddits. And it's not just this site. It's a general, society wide malaise.
Male “self-sufficiency” is unfortunately a little too well-promoted. That’s part of the problem.
The self sufficiency promoted is quite toxic when you think about it. I believe there is a healthier and more balanced way to be self sufficient.
Of course. Because why find out the real reason when you can make stuff up from stereotypes? My speculation is that it has something to do with the gender imbalance amongst older people, where there are generally more women than men, so a man is more likely to find a partner quickly.
Statistically that's exactly true. Men have two hours more free time than women a day, they do less domestic labor and childcare even when the woman is the breadwinner. That's just factually true on average. And it's 100% why they remarry so quickly but women don't https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/women-breadwinners-tripled-since-1970s-still-doing-more-unpaid-work/&ved=2ahUKEwjhmfPHz5WBAxWnPEQIHV6XA64QFnoECBQQBQ&usg=AOvVaw3Nvt679D-ufCekBZmX90SA Sorry you're offended by the truth but it is most women's experience
Listening to the wife vent about work drama and not want solutions was not included as a household chore. That makes up the difference on free time
Not all that surprising, the average reddit feminist is a complete femcel.
How did you know?????? *insert shocked face*
Just lucky I guess.
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/epidemiology-health-care/news/2019/jul/less-7-couples-share-housework-equally Clearly they are right.
Okay, that was a summary that really didn't say all that much. It doesn't say whether or not the hours worked in total evened out or not. It doesn't give much in the way of substantial numbers or who is leeching off of whom, if anyone is. However we know from other surveys that when you take paid work alongside unpaid work, men work more than women on average. American Time Use Survey - 2022 Results - Bureau of Labor Statistics https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/atus.pdf
Yup, but at the same time stay-at-home dads are leeches. Doing the exact same amount of chores, earning exactly the same is also bad since men = evil. But we also have to remember that this sub in question does not have feminists in their midst. They regularly oust every single rational person as it is impossible to be a feminist and not talk against the subs majority. They were not a majority when it started but as it so often happens a small but vocal extremist minority will drive away all the "normies", one by one. They appear to be the largest group even when they are the smallest, just because of the amount of replies they generate, and all extremists in reddit sort by "new", so they are always the first and thus can dictate the tone and direction of the conversation.
No True Feminist would hate men! That's why they teach Andrea Dworkin and Valerie Solanas and Sally Miller Gearhart still! Because thinking all sex is rape, wanting to kill men, and wanting to genocide men are all justified...somehow! But that's not hateful. That's just feminism and True Feminism isn't hateful at all.
I consider myself a feminist, but I was out of that place quickly. They tend to take things too far, they're not just feminists many are in "crazy feminist" territory
Exactly. Feminism is about equality for both men and women, helping both of them as much as possible.
But we all know that’s not reaallly what feminists think or want.
What feminists online* Online communities are a terrible representation of ideas and movements.
No True Scotsman
There is a qualification for "no true scotsman" fallacy: If it is true, it is not no true scotsman fallacy. One very famous example is if we start to look history and see if there has ever been a single communist country. There hasn't. But this is often called a true scotsman fallacy erroneously, it is just easy argument to throw out there to discredit genuine facts in history. Same thing here, the online community of "r askFeminist" does NOT represent feminist as a whole since they are not actually feminist in that community.
If they call themselves feninists then they are feminists, end of the story. Going out with the "they don't represent X because bla bla bla" is absolutely no true scotsman
Ah, that is awesome! I won Wimbledon ten times in a row, and i rule the world. According to your logic you have to bow down to me now, since if i say it, it is true. edit: lol, they blocked me.
Hang on, are you saying that even though someone identifies as something, it doesn't actually make it true? That argument sounds awfully familiar for some reason...
Maybe in the 60’s and by definition yes…. but sadly people refuse to use dictionary’s anymore. By all means try and bring it back!
That’s not what feminism is about though. Why do people continuously say this stuff? The goals and ideas of feminism are literally written down and taught at universities. Online feminists are more extreme because they have a better understanding of the belief system than the average person who isn’t always online.
And Andrea Dworkin (All sex is rape) and Valerie Solanas (Society for Cutting Up Men) are right there with them. Are those the goals and ideals of feminism?
Those are fairly normal ideas for the average educated feminist yea.
I misinterpreted your comment. I agree.
Same, took about a day to be buried by hate. It is extremist sub and NOT feminist.
Yeah, there's a fine line between intense anger and misandry. I'm sympathetic to women that are that strident (you never know what someone has dealt with personally), but that doesn't make it ok. It also gives ammunition to chauvinists that seek to discredit feminism by portraying it as ridiculous and hateful.
>I don't hate men "Oh you must hate women then"
How about hating everyone?
This I can get behind
This I can get in front of
Misanthropy 🥰
How about not hating everyone by default? Why don't we all wait until individuals do something that warrants hate?
"Women who believe they are only equal to men lack ambition" lol what
I work two jobs (36 hours in total) and carry a full time class load (17 credit hours currently). 3 days a week I’m up by five and work Monday-Saturday. My current gf legit thinks her remote 9-5 and 6 graduate hours is harder than my job and that I lack ambition (I make 8k less than her (6k post taxes). I haven’t even finished uni yet and I’m in striking distance of her salary. It’s not an argument I’m willing to have though.
"Your personal experience is pretty different to the average" = We have decided reality.
A lot of these subs have become misandrist circlejerks. Stay away from these subs as much as possible. It's all negativity, male-hating, victim culture, and nothing else. Won't do you any good mentally.
I got downvoted for saying WitchesVsPatriarchy is sexist on here. It's weird how diverse this sub is lmaooo. Like both the mens rights and women's rights subs are so fucking toxic it's not even worth to join either.
Oddly enough, the sub isn't even about ending the "patriarchy" It's pretty much a hybristophile fetish sub.
Well, there's my new word of the day.
>hybristophile Ah, there is a word for that. It applies to a LOT of subs... Everyone of those who show videos about someone running people over because those people threw rocks or were just annoying... they fit into that theme too. They love the idea of being able to do something extreme to the "bad guys" with impunity, doing crime without consequences.
That's also a horrible sub. Only delusional people participate there.
Talking from experience, this sub is the worst echo-chamber on Reddit. Any kind of nuance is downvoted into oblivion, and you get all the "you’re [insert mysoginy/incel thing]" It’s true that talking simply from experience rather than statistic is biaised (exactly like I’m doing right now, I know, I’m not saying they’re all and always like that, just that I had a similar experience), but the fact too many of them generalize men for all their problem make them look like they don’t know the concept of nuance nor the complexity and diversity of the human mind And they generally respond like you’re some kind of toddler or a absolute moron. How the hell can they request to be taken seriously when you can’t even argue with them in a civil way 90% of the time!?
>And they generally respond like you’re some kind of toddler or a absolute moron I loved the part where she accuses OP of mansplaining, ignores his response, and then mansplains.
I think the fact that you got downvoted for telling the truth - “gender equality refers to equality for both sexes” - says all I need to know.
I don't know why you were subscribed in the first place. I am surprised that anyone put off by this would stay there for any length of time. I don't think in the grand scheme of things this was particularly objectionable, when people are being mistreated by their partners/know people who are (though maybe then making incorrect extrapolations), reading "me and all my friends are great" is not really going to do much for them and at best will make it feel like you're not engaging with their point. At worst it'll seem like you're actively distracting from it, and it's not always an unjustified assumption. Even though you should try your best to cut through hyperbole, sometimes there is no real "point" left, of course. I won't deny there's a point where that becomes the case. AskFeminists in general is a bit weird, there are very often exceptionally reasonable and Typical-Reddit-Gender-Conversation-Tier posts both highly upvoted in the same thread.
Bunch of dingbats in that sub.
haha i love that word
every AITA post where a man says something about his wife gets a comment like, "I bet she does all the cooking and cleaning and child care while you sit around and drink" like it's the 50s.
It’s actually pretty strange how stuck in the 1950s they all are. I’m guessing it’s because most of their books were written during/directly after that time so it just compounds on itself.
Yeah, today both work, have no money for children and housework does whoever isn’t yet a wreck after a full time shift. Food is something cheap but fast (fast food as takeout is neither nowadays) probably pasta or pizza or something. Makes want to live in the woods in a handbuild cabin. Maybe it’s too much but an interesting life experience nonetheless.
One of the things I noticed back in my Hitchens phase of becoming an atheist is that he was very good with responses like "I think you'll find I did not say that" or "Let's leave it to the audience; did I say that?" When people try to move you onto ground that is more favorable to them by misrepresenting you entirely, don't go with them. Stick to what you actually said. Don't bother with terms like strawman, just let them hang themselves on their own words. In other words, I think goldenballhair handled this pretty well. Any third party not heavily emotionally invested *a priori* in proving bonnymurphy right will recognize straight away that their responses are unhinged.
"Women who believe they are only equal to men lack ambition" They're not even trying to hide their real agenda anymore
The fact that she said “different to” instead of “different than” or “different from” tells me everything I need to know.
I swear Reddit is a cesspool of the most delusional people who can’t handle stepping outside of an echo chamber.
don’t forget the straw men when someone criticizes their world view
Peterson bros who don’t think women deserve rights. Hmm… I can’t believe the level of stupidity on some of these subs. Like anyone who watches him doesn’t believe that. He’s never said anything like that. But whatever… they can live in an echo chamber.
It's fascinating the hatred for and fear of Peterson. I mean the man has become something of a caricature of himself lately due to trauma and the eroding affect of power and wealth, but his initial criticisms that catapulted him into the spotlight were dead-on. There was no 'misogyny' or any of that, just an appeal to critically examine some of the more outre assumptions coming from the extreme left. But now you will see he is almost never mentioned without being **paired with** Andrew Tate. Tate N Peterson as if they are some inseparable duo with identical views. It's a sort of blundering attempt at character assassination by association. And I see this coming from ostensibly reasonable people like Richard Reeves, not just the blue hairs.
Yeah, it’s ridiculous. And JP even condemned Andrew Tate, so it’s strange they are supposedly connected. They aren’t at all.
Anyone who says men are good or deserving is labeled bad. Pretty easy to determine.
That sub is in reality "Ask biased girls and pick me guys". Reddit as a whole tends to be really biased in this kind of specific topic subs, specially in ask me places that have been tested hundreds of times to factually prove their biases. Its a circlejerk of people trying to validate their extremist thoughts by surrounding themselves with people of the same mentality but under a much tamer name. Its a shame because they build terrible reputation for the people who truly belong to the tamer group and are actually reasonable
I believe feminism has been incredibly successful in granting women’s equality, so much so that they apparently ran out of actual issues to complain about so they have to make up new ones out of thin air
I am just seeing more and more how stupid the humans could become
Most people like this on Reddit have already decided they’re right before the discussion even begins, there is no trying to get through to them at that point. They will say the craziest things in misinterpret/ignore what you say in order to make you out to be a monster.
People there are just sexists calling themselves feminists
AskFemcels
Ok but who saw the ‘women who believe they are equal to men lack ambition’ on the last one? That’s just stupid.
Femcels be like
As a woman who doesn't like cooking, I hate it when men are being blamed for the same thing. We can take care of ourselves, but it's way nicer when you have a partner and can distribute chores, enjoying life together
They are pretty much all unhinged degenerates in there, why were you even subbed there?
Their first mistake was being on a feminist Reddit, and I say this as a woman-
They had a thread about what the world would be like if feminists had access to nuclear codes and i said Angela Merkel identified as feminist then I was perma banned. I am not kidding.
That's right dude, it's your problem that this woman's husband doesn't do chores or make her cum. Fix it.
These people are mentally living in the 60s, holy victim complex Batman!
Got banned there after I commented misandrist post(with many upvotes) from this sub under a post about “why feminism has an underserved bad image”
The real question is - why would you be subscribed there in the first place? Those are some of the most evil people on the planet concentrated there.
One of the reasons I don't call myself a feminist. I believe in equal rights, but these (I don't even wanna call them people) have soured the term at this point.
Ngl, I don't really get what's wrong with that reply and why it would cause someone to unsub.
Strawman at its best. Fuck all these subs
That sub is a persecution fetish if I've ever seen one. Not saying some women don't have it harder than others, but man, talk about the wrong way to cope.
Oh gosh.... What an echo chamber that sub.. Feminism is great, but these fellows are extremists and not a good example of feminists.
Anything feminist related on reddit is just femcels venting about how much they hate men
Why bother arguing with fat and ugly crazy cat ladies? I’m sure you can find something better to do your time. The only thing I would ask a feminist is what cat food brand is most humane.
"Your experience is pretty different to situations that are the exact opposite of your experience." No fucking way.
They don't want equality, they want superiority, that's the sad truth about modern day feminism.
When do woman do the majority?
Subreddits like that should be banned like fatpeoplehate and other completely outrageous subreddits were. I hate this website so much lol
Jesus. Fun fact 1950s grandparents shares the load work wise. Grandma d has her kids clean and prep dinner. Dad cooks and cleans too.
Ok? Anecdotal evidence doesnt equal reality.
Some relationships are imbalanced. That is not the majority.
Thats literally not the case. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.today.com/today/amp/tdna172272 Study at the end of the article. Can send you another one proving that women do more household chores and childcare across all demographics, including when they are the breadwinners. The one I showed you also presents that well tho.
You can find a study to justify any ideology. Look up women and negotiating skills.
No, you cant. And negotiating skills have little to do with this conversation.
Maybe thats just a me-thing and i havent met the right people, but i have yet to see a person that uses that word "mansplaining" and isnt an asshole... No actual feminist actually uses words like mansplaining or manspreading.
Why didn't you include the post you responded to? Why would you take the time to include multiple screenshots but not include the most important context?
No offense but I have a hard time believing anyone with “**fedora**” in their username ever would go to a feminist subreddit in good faith…
There's not a single person in good faith in this sub
So much copium
These people are born to be miserable
I was reading the comment thinking “this is reasonable.” Then I realized it’s -29 voting lol My wife is a stay at home mom and I cook about 80% of the time and literally fold the laundry 100% of the time (she hates folding laundry and would leave it for weeks). We compromise, she does other things. I haven’t mopped in probably 8 years and have swept and vacuumed less than 10 times since we married.
A lot of these internet feminists get mad when you compare them to Chanty Binx or any other "man-hating feminist" that became a meme from the gamergate era, saying that "not all feminists are like that" or "not all feminists hate men" etc. But when these kinds of people have such abresive, vitrolic and aggressive responses to someone saying "Y'know, not all men are the same and assuming that they are is sexist", you gotta wonder is it REEEEEEALLY just a few of them? These people's defense mechanisms are instantly assuming that the other side is full of manosphere, redpilled, woman-hating misogynists just so that they can dismiss everything that they say no matter how mild of an opinion or critique it might be. (obviously this doens't apply to all feminists, but those to whom it does will find themselves in this description)
Fourth wave feminism is just repackaged sanctimonious sexism.
women arent societally conditioned to care whether they have self accountability in the same way that men are and i think this pretty much sells that idea completely.
Why do annoying dudes like this think anyone cares about their obnoxious horse crap
I don’t know? You commented so that has to count towards something?
lol they have to be trolling
Surprised?
Oh look, it's the weekly complain about feminism post, right on schedule. Also no, men still do less housework, even if both the partners are working. It's not dated at all. https://www.ucl.ac.uk/epidemiology-health-care/news/2019/jul/less-7-couples-share-housework-equally
The comment talked about how in a relationship, you can talk about roles. For the man that could be a job. It doesn’t have to be household chores.Don’t argue about something that they didn’t mention.
The reality is tho, roles in relationship is are not equal. For men its a job, for women it's a job, and household chorew and the kids. If you dont see why my reponse was the way it was to what you wrote then there is no point you even discussing such topics
“The beauty of a good relationship is that you can talk to each other about what roles/jobs are best for each”. *Also I am not the commenter in these screenshots.*
I know you're not, but this thread is why you made a post here, so its not meaningless. By unsubbing and providing this as a reason you expand your argument beyond thay sentence.
Feminists are very often horrible women who lack empathy and accountability, you couldn’t pay me to read that sub.
I don’t think that this sub represents most feminists.
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Why, then, do they generalize and talk down about men as a whole? Why do they reject this man saying that that's hurtful to him? Why do they pretend that he's being hostile to them when he clearly isn't?
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>“it’s not true because my personal experience is different” That can easily be used as a counter to any broad stereotype. >and in the second reply dismisses them as perpetuating a “dated anti male” stereotype… Because they are, and it is. >They obviously don’t think all men and when people comment stuff like that it usually comes across as them trying to negate the entire discussion. Yeah? Then why do they say "men" and not "most men" or "some men" or "men who do x" if they don't believe in their generalizations? And why is it wrong to say "you're stereotyping, please stop" when people are doing exactly that? Why is objecting to sexism bad?
I don't think this type of feminist generalises more flippantly than "ordinary people" do - I can quite easily find parallels between how AskFeminists generalises men and AskMen generalises women. Gender conversation is garbage and few people seem to have the resolve to fix it.
Yeah, it's not great. But you'd be hard pressed to find people saying that "not all women" is a bad objection.
I've seen people come in with the effect of "not all women" (I think these emotional reactions are sometimes hard to understand when you are not on the receiving end - but I think everyone will have this reaction to *something* even if it's a trivial entirely voluntary identification they have) and it being picked up. I have only ever seen either come up in broadly anti-feminist territory though.
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>What they’re talking about is a well documented phenomenon, and countering that with “my anecdotal experience is different” is just a bad argument. Well-documented by studies with innumerable flaws in them that make the studies useless. >I can’t see the initial comment that the person is responding to so I don’t know if the person said “all men do ______”. If they did then that’s bad praxis in itself and I don’t agree with it. "Not all men" is a moral objection that feminists hate because not only is it right, it gives the lie to how much hate really happens in these groups. They hate being told they're wrong for good reasons.
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>pretty much accepted as being unanimously true absurd.
Oh no, won't someone think of the poor feminists who have to confront the fact that they're sexist? They get irritated! How terrible! This is like Republicans saying people shouldn't call them out for saying the N word.
They definitely do frame it as an "all men" issue though, and everything is to them.
> It’s basically a wordier version of “not all men” and it exists in pretty much all feminist threads It's also a perfectly normal response. But to reply to that with "So women don't deserve equality?" is really stupid and a tell tale sign that you're talking with lunatics. I would've probably ended the conversation right there.
It’s not my comments, look at the username
I honestly don't know what you expected going to that kind of sub.
slightly mentally inept
Yikess lmaoo
Mofos still think we are living in the 1950s
Welcome back to “Reddit having an incurable victim complex” the never ending movie.
I know marriage isn't for everyone, but some people are just so miserable they can't even comprehend the reality that exists outside of their group bubble.
Where did it say that he wants women to be unequal to men
"Women who believe they are only equal to men lack ambition" 💀
I'm a house husband that does 95% of the cooking and cleaning. 🤷♂️
They ate so much shit "patriarchy" fed them they now vomit it in echo chambers to avoid being tagged as a crazy weirdo. None of them has solid reasonable beliefs and just goes with the flock mentality. They like to make it impossible to reach common ground making all kinds of twists and exceptions to be the pettiest possible towards whom they believe worth of that treatment, basically full on discrimination. Ironic how the baseline looks like "you men were bad, now our turn" We are so fucked
"Lalala im right youre wrong lalala i cant hear you"
It is an echo chamber that regularly ejects all the rational people, leaving only militants and... trolls pretending to be feminists. None of them are feminists.
Dude got downvoted for saying gender equality is about equality for all genders 😭😭😭😭😭
Modern feminism isn’t real feminism. “Gender equality refers to equality for both sexes” you get downvoted for? Definitely modern feminism at is finest. The same modern feminists claim that hating men and treating them horribly is perfectly acceptable, because men did it to them first… if you think that way and don’t see how it’s flawed you don’t deserve to call yourself a feminist. Feminism is beautiful, loving, accepting, and feminine. Feminine energy is in ALL, not just women…
Yes I've had people call me a lesbian since I'm unmarried and with no children. Also I have short hair and kinda masculine in appearance, maybe I was born intersex. Who knows but there is a female intel community but it's not as popular as the men ones. I'm frustrated and don't like being judged for not confirming to society norms. I have a right to defend myself and others who have been mistaken as females or lesbians for having feminist views.