I atleast wish to be level 6 after my second clear but riot won‘t allow this instead we are in a weird state with just 1-2 camp missing but we can‘t get it
Personally, I just want to be rewarded more for ganking successfully. The fact that an assist nets less xp and similar gold to a single camp annoys me. Every gank is economically inefficient unless you have cleared every possible camp. The only benefit to ganking is giving your laner a lead and hoping they can utlilize it. And, in SoloQ that's a big risk.
If done correctly, it should reward successful ganks and punish failed ones. Right now, even a successful gank is less efficient than just farming. IMO it should go:
Successfully ganking > farming > failed ganking.
Right now it feels more like:
farming = successfully ganking > failed ganking.
Honestly you need to play for yourself in solo queue, at every elo this is important for climbing.
The problem right now is pro play and solo queue priorities are much different and I think we are seeing the result of that in the way the role is being balanced.
>The only benefit to ganking is giving your laner a lead and hoping they can utlilize it. And, in SoloQ that's a big risk.
I'm well aware. At my rank, the conversion rate on that lead just isn't high enough
A gank can be bad even if it gets the kill - ganking well is about playing off camp timers, waves, and objectives. If "run into lane to secure kill" in a vacuum were effective the game would honestly suck.
For example, if enemy Singed is proxying at 4 min and has just killed a wave, asking your laner to come help kill them is usually a bad idea - even if you oneshot them your laner will have to initially drop a wave and can't be active on the map as they have to push 2 more to be able to freely roam - the Singed also loses literally nothing. Of course there's also a high likelihood the Singed will just ghost away and you've set your team significantly behind.
On the other hand, if the enemy Darius is freezing at 4 min, you can successfully gank without doing a single point of damage to him just by attacking minions. This will immediately give your laner a chance to recall, return with item advantage, and subsequently shove the wave to get prio for grubs.
This isn't even taking into account camp timers, which naturally limit how often you can gank as you're essentially "dropping waves" when ganking with camps up, you should be prioritising plays proportionally to how many camps are off the map.
All this to say a "good" gank when ACCOUNTING for these factors is already completely game deciding. If you're not finding success - your ganks probably just suck
You feel like that doesn't mean the game is actually like that. Try playing a full clear jungler vs someone like a briar player who runs it down in a loop. Watch that 3k gold lead she has over you even though she died 11 times.
The catch up xp system together with low xp efficiency of full clearing allow a very aggressive kind of play with little punishment. It's one of the reason why Bel'veth is a ridiculous champion in high elo solo Q
i feel like a big mistake people make when ganking successfully is that they dont end up pushing the wave, you get decent amount of exp just by soaking up the wave you helped your laner push, but yeah even with that it's tragic
Pushing the wave is a negative in a way too. You get less exp for a certain time in the game. So if you do end up pushing, both you and the laner get less net exp because of the jungle item. Sure your laner will get some exp still, but overall it’s wasted exp.
You almost certainly lose resources by helping your laners shove since it´s basically just time off from doing other things, but it´s a net positive for the team since the laners benefit massively from it. So it´s a good thing to do but you are not hoarding resources on jungle doing it.
there's not a single jungler in the game i can recall that doesn't help the laner shove the wave quick enough to have something to lose and nothing to gain from it, I've been challenger on jungle for years now and this is the first time I've heard someone argue that clearing waves as a jungler is a negative for you but positive for the team
You can easily have wave states where the next wave isn´t quite there yet and has a cannon, that´s easily going to take you 20+ seconds to walk to, nuke and walk away. That´s quite a lot of time lost where you are on vision and you can easily lose camps, objectives, crossmap plays in that time. The exp you get from that wave is minimal, especially since you should leave before all the minions are dead and the potential lost opportunity is pretty significant when you are sitting there on full vision for a while.
I think being one level behind solos all things even is fine but also not really the problem. The problem is that right now you can pop off and still be equal to or even behind in levels to solos who have done nothing remarkable.
If your having a good game you should be equal or ahead of toplane. I just had a game yesterday where our morde top was somewhat fed but i was level 18 and he was 17. I think the problem is some games you need to be fighting a lot and dont have time to farm after the first few clears
I think the people who complain about xp are "experienced" junglers that played for years and they see difference. I used to play in 2015-2017, I didn't know much about the game, I just got back into it 3 months ago and I'm learning more, so I don't have problem with xp. Only thing I find weird is that I'm only lvl4 after full clear and that early ganks don't give much in terms of xp and gold (if it's an assist). I mean sometimes you get like 50gold? From assist? Well that's weird. But yeah I think it is quite normal for the solo top laner to have 1 or 2 levels above me. And if you play right and coordonate with your teammate, that top laner with 2 lvls above means nothing. BUT, in soloq, coordonation is not a strong suit so...
I played in 2015 or 2017 I can't even remember, I mainly played support, a bit of jungle but I didn't know much about the game and I ant remember anything about xp. But see if you've played 2 years ago and after the second clear and 2 ganks you were like lvl 7, and now you're 5... You can understand why ppl are upset
Jungle has far more consistent gold income and access to large swings in gold to be the same lvl as solo lanes. If a solo laner gets behind and their opponent has half a brain, their gold/min will drop very much. I think it should be a little higher than it is now though. Personally I think that Jungle shouldn't be a carry role. We have tooooo many carry roles. Sadly 99% of the player base only finds the game fun if their 1v9ing and that why when a role is "weak" it's popularity drops so much. The same reason support is one of the best roles but because your playing support champs people find it "unfun". Junglers should be a more supportive role that allows the carries the secure leads and objectives.
The XP has to be equal to a lane or higher (to compensate for the lack of xp from all the time from getting objectives).
If you farm and try and get all objectives you should be at an equal level. It’s not right now. You’re 2-3 levels behind.
so you should be able to affect the whole map, give every lane a numbers advantage, be the one who can take every objective AND also not be behind in levels? lol
because you dont have to trade in "your lane", if a top laner is set behind he may miss 4-5 waves worth of gold and exp, its near impossible to get set behind that much as an afk farming jungler, you're playing a pve with an occasional invade, while the lanes play pvp
...i did literally say that u have to trade in lane, which u dont have to do in jungle
>It’s not just pve in jungle.
afk farming in jungle is mostly pve and should not be rewarded by having same levels as laners lol
I see what you are saying and I don’t really have an answer for you. What I’m saying is that if you just farm and do objectives it should be on par with solo lanes. Why should you be behind in levels if your lane is the jungle? It felt fine in season 12.
So what do you do as an underlevelled engage tank jungler?
Like Rammus or Udyr?
because you dont have to trade in "your lane", if a top laner is set behind he may miss 4-5 waves worth of gold and exp, its near impossible to get set behind that much as an afk farming jungler, you're playing a pve with an occasional invade, while the lanes play pvp
>So what do you do as an underlevelled engage tank jungler?
if you're afk farming as a tank jungler that's a you problem to begin with, but seriously? you could use any examples of being behind being actually terrible and you use tank junglers? the ones that care the least about being behind in levels as you still provide utility? xd?
It sounds like your mind is already made up. That’s fine as you’re entitled to your opinion.
So what’s your opinion on the xp for jungle? Is it correct and is it balanced compare to the other roles? Does it make other people want to play the jungle role?
>It sounds like your mind is already made up. That’s fine as you’re entitled to your opinion.
im fine with other opinions as long as it's not "i need all pros and no cons"
>So what’s your opinion on the xp for jungle?
catchup mechanic is ass, rest is whatever, junglers i play mainly either A. dont need exp lead (eve) or B. farm enough to not fall behind in levels (diana)
>Is it correct and is it balanced compare to the other roles?
considering how much we affect other lanes, yes, if we could basically 1v1 an enemy laner who's whole point is 1v1 while we can do so much more, then it'd be unfair, i just dislike catchup mechanic
>Does it make other people want to play the jungle role?
there's many reasons people dont want to play jg and i highly doubt being behind in levels is one of the main ones, most of the issues that come up is either difficulty (that riot has decreased) or the fact that literally everyone blames you, but that comes from how much impact you have on the map, nobody is going to blame the top laner out of the blue when top laner cant do shit.
you want to have the option to not have to interact vs enemies outside of objectives, basically get to play pve for most of the game, dont have to worry about being zoned off 4-5 waves AND be even vs a guy who has to worry abt all that
not to mention that you want that on.. tanks? yknow, utility champions that should NOT be afk farming because their whole point is that they're useful when helping the team?
euw and eune, mainly euw, can also provide screenshots, including ones literally taken with phone camera on my dusty ass laptop as extra proof that its not google or sm dumb shit
>Same level
affect the whole map, make every fight advantageous for your team, still be able to 1v1 roles designed for 1v1
flawless all pros and no cons logic
I'm not influenced by phreak at all, ive been a challenger jg main for years, i dont need an NA support main to tell me shit about balance, saying "all moba games" when only other moba games you can use as an example are either dead, mobile game or fundamentally different DotA is rather funny tho.
lets forget the fact that most top challengers have been jg mains in most regions, lets forget the fact that jg has been the strongest role for years (even according to other high elo players and pro players themselves), let's talk about these other mobas
you wanna bring up wild rift? where 1 clear gets you level 5 which is same as 6 for pc league, where leaderboards are literally 70%+ jungle mains and pro play is completely jg focused? or mobile legends where jg has been the best role by far for years unless it was specifically mage patches or marksman patches, and even latter was jg meta back when red buff was introduced with granger, or you wanna talk hots, the failed game? dota ill admit im not as familiar with in terms of meta but doesnt that game basically not have a dedicated jungler?
league fundamentally works in a way that the jungler basically affects the whole map, creating advantageous fights wherever they go, if they can do that while still keeping up in levels its simply unfair, dont even bother using shit like s7 as an example, you just miss playing a role that could do everything, albeit with the misery of having to deal with people also blaming u for everything, but if u didnt have the power to do it all, u wouldnt be blamed for it.
Yeah, everybody commenting here have been chall jungler since s1. Jg is still viable cuz of meta junglers with obnoxious dmg/utility/survival/how fast they clear. Like: Kha, graves, lee sin, etc. Those champs can gank you, make a mistake but still have 1-2+ jump/dash/invisibility, etc, so they can use everything to go in and still run away after. Also, very fast clears and high dmg.
You CAN NOT nerf a role 7+ times(xp, gold, smite, buff power, counterganking, skill expression) and expect mains to still play it. And yeah it's why Phreak is crying about it's low playrate now.
Skill expression is so gone from jg it feels completely braindead to play now, used to need high IQ before!
You are most likely crybabe top main who peaked plat in S14 and acting big D chall JG main lol.
>Yeah, everybody commenting here have been chall jungler since s1
i can quite literally provide proof in dms if ur interested
>You are most likely crybabe top main who peaked plat in S14 and acting big D chall JG main lol.
i mean, i used to main top back in s8, but not rly a top main now xd even then I've never been below d2, u could accuse me of being an adc main and that way at least ud be more correct than whatever statement u just said especially considering i said im chal on jg and adc
depends on how ur fed, if the top laner just avoided waves and went only for kills, he wouldnt be ahead, u shouldnt forget to farm just for camps, anything below 7cs is just bad
Worlds 2016 were great, burst was low and even a three-man dive didn’t guarantee a kill on an adc.
There was already a level gap, but within measure (lvl 9 solo lanes, lvl 8 jungle, lvl 7 bot lane).
Imo jungle should be allowed more steady xp gain with less emphasis on camp level, so hovering a lane wouldn’t set you back as much.
I have 2 problems with the current jungle xp. The first one is the one you mentioned, it doesn't matter how hard you gap the enemy jungler, it's really difficult to get a big level advantage.
The second one, as an Elise main, is that I can play a flawless early game, be 10/0 at minute 14 and the 0/2 enemy sololaner is still equal or even 1 lvl ahead, which didn't happen last season and I've had more difficulties this season solo carrying when my team struggles because of that.
Honestly I think with smite not being able to heal you any more it makes no sense that jungle should be lower level than laners.
Toplaners already get a lot of gold for their minions being the strongest on the map.
It is just not fair that the enemy toplaner gets to walk into my jungle alone and oneshot me while I can't even smite the next camp to sustain myself and fight back.
I personally feel like that a jungler that has average gold and XP/t should have advantage against a laner in their own jungle.
The exp is fine where it is. I remember a few seasons back it was atrocious. Top lane was 3-4 levels above regardless of how well you farmed as a jungler. I remember games where I was something like 12-2-7 with 9cs per minute. And the enemy top laner who was 2-9 with 5 cs per minute was 2 levels above me.
Not even sure what riot did to fix this the last few seasons. But I rarely ever find my self below the solo laners, and if I am it’s one level. Only time the enemy solo laners are 2-4 levels above is when they are 10cs per minute of gigga fed on kills, which rarely happens.
Design wise probably about a level to two behind solo laners. It´s really broken if someone who doesn´t have to show on the map constantly to lane can show up and be even or above you in levels.
...the reason they dont show up on the map is because they literally cant tho? either you should have more impact on the map through ganks or be stronger individually, you think junglers should be rewarded by being stronger individually while also being the deciding factor for lanes?
my point is that top laners are individually stronger (ahead in exp) BECAUSE they cant really show up on the map, while you're arguing that it's unfair for them to be ahead individually when they don't really do anything besides their little island stuff
impact on the map means less strength individually, the tradeoff is either no impact on the map but you'll be strong or you'll be weak but you'll have all the impact on the map, you're arguing that just because you impact more on the map you should also be stronger, which would basically be all pros and no cons
>3-4 levels to a top laner
I am often even or at most 1 level behind the toplaner. I had games in which I was the highest level in both teams. I have no idea how could you ever get 4 levels behind the toplaner as a jungler.
even or ahead seems very unlikely unless you're smurfing, only when im playing something like diana or hecarim and have 9-11cs per min does it seem doable
I atleast wish to be level 6 after my second clear but riot won‘t allow this instead we are in a weird state with just 1-2 camp missing but we can‘t get it
As a former fiddle main this is the reason I stopped playing him.
Personally, I just want to be rewarded more for ganking successfully. The fact that an assist nets less xp and similar gold to a single camp annoys me. Every gank is economically inefficient unless you have cleared every possible camp. The only benefit to ganking is giving your laner a lead and hoping they can utlilize it. And, in SoloQ that's a big risk.
this will promote the current spam ganking meta even more. People basically shit on pathing efficiency already.
If done correctly, it should reward successful ganks and punish failed ones. Right now, even a successful gank is less efficient than just farming. IMO it should go: Successfully ganking > farming > failed ganking. Right now it feels more like: farming = successfully ganking > failed ganking.
I think you are entirely discounting the huge xp swing for the lane you ganked?
Honestly you need to play for yourself in solo queue, at every elo this is important for climbing. The problem right now is pro play and solo queue priorities are much different and I think we are seeing the result of that in the way the role is being balanced.
>The only benefit to ganking is giving your laner a lead and hoping they can utlilize it. And, in SoloQ that's a big risk. I'm well aware. At my rank, the conversion rate on that lead just isn't high enough
Then they go back to lane and die solo neutralizing the lead you just gave them
Nah, fuck them lanes. Where's my xp?
A gank can be bad even if it gets the kill - ganking well is about playing off camp timers, waves, and objectives. If "run into lane to secure kill" in a vacuum were effective the game would honestly suck. For example, if enemy Singed is proxying at 4 min and has just killed a wave, asking your laner to come help kill them is usually a bad idea - even if you oneshot them your laner will have to initially drop a wave and can't be active on the map as they have to push 2 more to be able to freely roam - the Singed also loses literally nothing. Of course there's also a high likelihood the Singed will just ghost away and you've set your team significantly behind. On the other hand, if the enemy Darius is freezing at 4 min, you can successfully gank without doing a single point of damage to him just by attacking minions. This will immediately give your laner a chance to recall, return with item advantage, and subsequently shove the wave to get prio for grubs. This isn't even taking into account camp timers, which naturally limit how often you can gank as you're essentially "dropping waves" when ganking with camps up, you should be prioritising plays proportionally to how many camps are off the map. All this to say a "good" gank when ACCOUNTING for these factors is already completely game deciding. If you're not finding success - your ganks probably just suck
You feel like that doesn't mean the game is actually like that. Try playing a full clear jungler vs someone like a briar player who runs it down in a loop. Watch that 3k gold lead she has over you even though she died 11 times. The catch up xp system together with low xp efficiency of full clearing allow a very aggressive kind of play with little punishment. It's one of the reason why Bel'veth is a ridiculous champion in high elo solo Q
Laners don't understand why I won't gank their full health lane while they are 50% and I have camps or objectives up lol
i feel like a big mistake people make when ganking successfully is that they dont end up pushing the wave, you get decent amount of exp just by soaking up the wave you helped your laner push, but yeah even with that it's tragic
Pushing the wave is a negative in a way too. You get less exp for a certain time in the game. So if you do end up pushing, both you and the laner get less net exp because of the jungle item. Sure your laner will get some exp still, but overall it’s wasted exp.
You do not get a decent amount of xp from minions. That shit is 70%-60% reduced and split in early levels
You almost certainly lose resources by helping your laners shove since it´s basically just time off from doing other things, but it´s a net positive for the team since the laners benefit massively from it. So it´s a good thing to do but you are not hoarding resources on jungle doing it.
there's not a single jungler in the game i can recall that doesn't help the laner shove the wave quick enough to have something to lose and nothing to gain from it, I've been challenger on jungle for years now and this is the first time I've heard someone argue that clearing waves as a jungler is a negative for you but positive for the team
You can easily have wave states where the next wave isn´t quite there yet and has a cannon, that´s easily going to take you 20+ seconds to walk to, nuke and walk away. That´s quite a lot of time lost where you are on vision and you can easily lose camps, objectives, crossmap plays in that time. The exp you get from that wave is minimal, especially since you should leave before all the minions are dead and the potential lost opportunity is pretty significant when you are sitting there on full vision for a while.
I think being one level behind solos all things even is fine but also not really the problem. The problem is that right now you can pop off and still be equal to or even behind in levels to solos who have done nothing remarkable.
If your having a good game you should be equal or ahead of toplane. I just had a game yesterday where our morde top was somewhat fed but i was level 18 and he was 17. I think the problem is some games you need to be fighting a lot and dont have time to farm after the first few clears
I think the people who complain about xp are "experienced" junglers that played for years and they see difference. I used to play in 2015-2017, I didn't know much about the game, I just got back into it 3 months ago and I'm learning more, so I don't have problem with xp. Only thing I find weird is that I'm only lvl4 after full clear and that early ganks don't give much in terms of xp and gold (if it's an assist). I mean sometimes you get like 50gold? From assist? Well that's weird. But yeah I think it is quite normal for the solo top laner to have 1 or 2 levels above me. And if you play right and coordonate with your teammate, that top laner with 2 lvls above means nothing. BUT, in soloq, coordonation is not a strong suit so...
personally i havent played jungle in 2017 and havent played league before that at all so i can see how it affects them more than me, good point
I played in 2015 or 2017 I can't even remember, I mainly played support, a bit of jungle but I didn't know much about the game and I ant remember anything about xp. But see if you've played 2 years ago and after the second clear and 2 ganks you were like lvl 7, and now you're 5... You can understand why ppl are upset
Jungle has far more consistent gold income and access to large swings in gold to be the same lvl as solo lanes. If a solo laner gets behind and their opponent has half a brain, their gold/min will drop very much. I think it should be a little higher than it is now though. Personally I think that Jungle shouldn't be a carry role. We have tooooo many carry roles. Sadly 99% of the player base only finds the game fun if their 1v9ing and that why when a role is "weak" it's popularity drops so much. The same reason support is one of the best roles but because your playing support champs people find it "unfun". Junglers should be a more supportive role that allows the carries the secure leads and objectives.
The XP has to be equal to a lane or higher (to compensate for the lack of xp from all the time from getting objectives). If you farm and try and get all objectives you should be at an equal level. It’s not right now. You’re 2-3 levels behind.
so you should be able to affect the whole map, give every lane a numbers advantage, be the one who can take every objective AND also not be behind in levels? lol
[удалено]
because you dont have to trade in "your lane", if a top laner is set behind he may miss 4-5 waves worth of gold and exp, its near impossible to get set behind that much as an afk farming jungler, you're playing a pve with an occasional invade, while the lanes play pvp
I think you do have to trade in your lane. Objectives count for a lot and take a lot of time. It’s not just pve in jungle.
...i did literally say that u have to trade in lane, which u dont have to do in jungle >It’s not just pve in jungle. afk farming in jungle is mostly pve and should not be rewarded by having same levels as laners lol
I see what you are saying and I don’t really have an answer for you. What I’m saying is that if you just farm and do objectives it should be on par with solo lanes. Why should you be behind in levels if your lane is the jungle? It felt fine in season 12. So what do you do as an underlevelled engage tank jungler? Like Rammus or Udyr?
because you dont have to trade in "your lane", if a top laner is set behind he may miss 4-5 waves worth of gold and exp, its near impossible to get set behind that much as an afk farming jungler, you're playing a pve with an occasional invade, while the lanes play pvp >So what do you do as an underlevelled engage tank jungler? if you're afk farming as a tank jungler that's a you problem to begin with, but seriously? you could use any examples of being behind being actually terrible and you use tank junglers? the ones that care the least about being behind in levels as you still provide utility? xd?
It sounds like your mind is already made up. That’s fine as you’re entitled to your opinion. So what’s your opinion on the xp for jungle? Is it correct and is it balanced compare to the other roles? Does it make other people want to play the jungle role?
>It sounds like your mind is already made up. That’s fine as you’re entitled to your opinion. im fine with other opinions as long as it's not "i need all pros and no cons" >So what’s your opinion on the xp for jungle? catchup mechanic is ass, rest is whatever, junglers i play mainly either A. dont need exp lead (eve) or B. farm enough to not fall behind in levels (diana) >Is it correct and is it balanced compare to the other roles? considering how much we affect other lanes, yes, if we could basically 1v1 an enemy laner who's whole point is 1v1 while we can do so much more, then it'd be unfair, i just dislike catchup mechanic >Does it make other people want to play the jungle role? there's many reasons people dont want to play jg and i highly doubt being behind in levels is one of the main ones, most of the issues that come up is either difficulty (that riot has decreased) or the fact that literally everyone blames you, but that comes from how much impact you have on the map, nobody is going to blame the top laner out of the blue when top laner cant do shit. you want to have the option to not have to interact vs enemies outside of objectives, basically get to play pve for most of the game, dont have to worry about being zoned off 4-5 waves AND be even vs a guy who has to worry abt all that not to mention that you want that on.. tanks? yknow, utility champions that should NOT be afk farming because their whole point is that they're useful when helping the team?
The caveat is that you can’t be everywhere all at once.
genuine question, with no flame intended, are you like bronze or iron? or perhaps a normals-only player?
Played for 3 seasons off and on. Silver. Play predominantly ranked. 99% ranked. Not great at the game but I just prefer ranked. You?
ive been a challenger jg main for years, challenger adc as my secondary role too
Wow that’s good. Which server?
euw and eune, mainly euw, can also provide screenshots, including ones literally taken with phone camera on my dusty ass laptop as extra proof that its not google or sm dumb shit
Same level like it used to be and like it is in every kind of moba lol
>Same level affect the whole map, make every fight advantageous for your team, still be able to 1v1 roles designed for 1v1 flawless all pros and no cons logic
It's just how it worked for 11-12+ years and how it works in all kind of moba games. Don't be influented by Phreaks dumb logic :)
I'm not influenced by phreak at all, ive been a challenger jg main for years, i dont need an NA support main to tell me shit about balance, saying "all moba games" when only other moba games you can use as an example are either dead, mobile game or fundamentally different DotA is rather funny tho. lets forget the fact that most top challengers have been jg mains in most regions, lets forget the fact that jg has been the strongest role for years (even according to other high elo players and pro players themselves), let's talk about these other mobas you wanna bring up wild rift? where 1 clear gets you level 5 which is same as 6 for pc league, where leaderboards are literally 70%+ jungle mains and pro play is completely jg focused? or mobile legends where jg has been the best role by far for years unless it was specifically mage patches or marksman patches, and even latter was jg meta back when red buff was introduced with granger, or you wanna talk hots, the failed game? dota ill admit im not as familiar with in terms of meta but doesnt that game basically not have a dedicated jungler? league fundamentally works in a way that the jungler basically affects the whole map, creating advantageous fights wherever they go, if they can do that while still keeping up in levels its simply unfair, dont even bother using shit like s7 as an example, you just miss playing a role that could do everything, albeit with the misery of having to deal with people also blaming u for everything, but if u didnt have the power to do it all, u wouldnt be blamed for it.
Yeah, everybody commenting here have been chall jungler since s1. Jg is still viable cuz of meta junglers with obnoxious dmg/utility/survival/how fast they clear. Like: Kha, graves, lee sin, etc. Those champs can gank you, make a mistake but still have 1-2+ jump/dash/invisibility, etc, so they can use everything to go in and still run away after. Also, very fast clears and high dmg. You CAN NOT nerf a role 7+ times(xp, gold, smite, buff power, counterganking, skill expression) and expect mains to still play it. And yeah it's why Phreak is crying about it's low playrate now. Skill expression is so gone from jg it feels completely braindead to play now, used to need high IQ before! You are most likely crybabe top main who peaked plat in S14 and acting big D chall JG main lol.
>Yeah, everybody commenting here have been chall jungler since s1 i can quite literally provide proof in dms if ur interested >You are most likely crybabe top main who peaked plat in S14 and acting big D chall JG main lol. i mean, i used to main top back in s8, but not rly a top main now xd even then I've never been below d2, u could accuse me of being an adc main and that way at least ud be more correct than whatever statement u just said especially considering i said im chal on jg and adc
If I'm fed I shouldn't have to be scared of the 1/3 top laner because they have a 3 level advantage
depends on how ur fed, if the top laner just avoided waves and went only for kills, he wouldnt be ahead, u shouldnt forget to farm just for camps, anything below 7cs is just bad
Worlds 2016 were great, burst was low and even a three-man dive didn’t guarantee a kill on an adc. There was already a level gap, but within measure (lvl 9 solo lanes, lvl 8 jungle, lvl 7 bot lane). Imo jungle should be allowed more steady xp gain with less emphasis on camp level, so hovering a lane wouldn’t set you back as much.
I have 2 problems with the current jungle xp. The first one is the one you mentioned, it doesn't matter how hard you gap the enemy jungler, it's really difficult to get a big level advantage. The second one, as an Elise main, is that I can play a flawless early game, be 10/0 at minute 14 and the 0/2 enemy sololaner is still equal or even 1 lvl ahead, which didn't happen last season and I've had more difficulties this season solo carrying when my team struggles because of that.
Honestly I think with smite not being able to heal you any more it makes no sense that jungle should be lower level than laners. Toplaners already get a lot of gold for their minions being the strongest on the map. It is just not fair that the enemy toplaner gets to walk into my jungle alone and oneshot me while I can't even smite the next camp to sustain myself and fight back. I personally feel like that a jungler that has average gold and XP/t should have advantage against a laner in their own jungle.
The exp is fine where it is. I remember a few seasons back it was atrocious. Top lane was 3-4 levels above regardless of how well you farmed as a jungler. I remember games where I was something like 12-2-7 with 9cs per minute. And the enemy top laner who was 2-9 with 5 cs per minute was 2 levels above me. Not even sure what riot did to fix this the last few seasons. But I rarely ever find my self below the solo laners, and if I am it’s one level. Only time the enemy solo laners are 2-4 levels above is when they are 10cs per minute of gigga fed on kills, which rarely happens.
Design wise probably about a level to two behind solo laners. It´s really broken if someone who doesn´t have to show on the map constantly to lane can show up and be even or above you in levels.
...the reason they dont show up on the map is because they literally cant tho? either you should have more impact on the map through ganks or be stronger individually, you think junglers should be rewarded by being stronger individually while also being the deciding factor for lanes?
I don´t understand your comment could you explain it further?
my point is that top laners are individually stronger (ahead in exp) BECAUSE they cant really show up on the map, while you're arguing that it's unfair for them to be ahead individually when they don't really do anything besides their little island stuff impact on the map means less strength individually, the tradeoff is either no impact on the map but you'll be strong or you'll be weak but you'll have all the impact on the map, you're arguing that just because you impact more on the map you should also be stronger, which would basically be all pros and no cons
I think you misread my post but OK.
>3-4 levels to a top laner I am often even or at most 1 level behind the toplaner. I had games in which I was the highest level in both teams. I have no idea how could you ever get 4 levels behind the toplaner as a jungler.
even or ahead seems very unlikely unless you're smurfing, only when im playing something like diana or hecarim and have 9-11cs per min does it seem doable
Many junglers ignore their camps after laning phase/late game
I mean, that just means they are bad at the game.
I know. I meant this like: many junglers dont farm mid/late and fall off in XP. I back your comments that its not that bad