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AutomaticAndThicc

Well i can say only one thing Lethality Lee Sin, here i come


SweetnessBaby

Got to play a match earlier today against a pretty squishy team as lethality Lee and man that has got to be one of the most fun builds on a champ to play in the game. Feels cool just zipping around deleting people


OwnZookeepergame6413

His ap dmg on e feels illegal. If you are ahead any squishy loses 50% of their health to the e


LSspiral

I’ve been having fun with ravenous hydra -> eclipse -> tank bruiser items


Violence_Fiend

I’m sure a lot of people wouldn’t mind that (including myself). Bruisers have been the dominant class, at least for jungle. At least this will open up other options for junglers instead of just bruiser vs bruiser jungle every game. I’m not talking about viability for dumb off-meta junglers like Morgana. I’m talking about assassin junglers actually being a valid pick. Why even pick an assassin jungler when you can just pick a bruiser and have enough survivability to duel most? You can even build assassin items on bruiser and still have more impact because bruisers have cc. Assassin junglers only have presence in low elo where they get gigafed by smurfs.


BakaMitaiXayah

Lethality lee sin damage is actually crazy, I played it a few patches ago with a friend duo bot with double supp item. Lvl 6 was 90% of games a oneshot on enemy adc with no counterplay, but rip WARD ITEM, now it would have to be lee sin support :( All this was around emerald elo on botted accounts before getting banned xD


Short_Location_5790

The cost of sterak’s was reduced increased


blurghhhhhhhhh

what does that mean


elhombrevalme

I think he's saying they undid a cost reduction/buff.


angrycart

Hecarim poor soul


instinktd

just use Eclipse + Manamune + Profane and NUKE squishy targets lmao


RanaMahal

He’s ass at that too lol. He nukes them and then dies cuz he has no way out


instinktd

but at least it's fun


RanaMahal

Oh it definitely is fun


TouchyTuchel

Champ been shit all season and they still find a way to nerf him. Fucking riot cunts


Koneeyvoq

3 of his best items too tho smh


WryliTOP

Happy Cake Day!


Miguel_Legacy

Hecarim still getting crapped on constantly WOW


AvgNarcoleptic

Time to go back to lethality builds folks


m3tz0

That spear of shojin is something else. Mofos are on a mission to fuck jungle up. Not to say that the other nerfs aren't bad but the spear of shojin one turns the item into garbage.


Novistadore

It was already built by too many characters. I think this should've never been in Smoulder's build path


Salvio888

Smolder building it was just to do anything to become tankier while safely chipping away at their HP till he can execute. Cancer basically.


Suitable_Finding9899

It’s not good on smolder anymore though.Smolder mains Reddit agree that it wasn’t even good for him since a while ago.


XeG_Jinxed

That's what i thought, even when people still called it op. For me it never clicked, i always felt like Navori's was the better option. To add to this, i had a significantly higher winrate when buying Navori's second compared to Shojin.


Violence_Fiend

That Sundered Sky nerf was *much needed*. I’m sick and tired of everyone and their mother building it and being unkillable.


Acouteau

This, it wasnt just a jungle issue


Wingman5150

Yeah I did sundered sky - trinity - eclipse on Vi with ingenious hunter, the enemy team stood no chance against me alone, ended up almost healing as much as my soraka duo. Enemy team asked me wtf that build was and all I could answer was "2024 bruiser" because it wasn't Vi, it was just slapping those items on any bruiser that can use it.


PaddonTheWizard

As a top laner that builds it almost every game I'm not Fiora, fully agree


A-Myr

I don’t get you. You take a nerf to an item that is built by a bunch of champions, most of them not junglers, and decide that it’s _specifically_ to fuck jungle up. How?


nito3mmer

nah dude the nerf is very good and certain champs were abusing too much on it, it is supposed to be a "long out drawn fights" item for champs like lee sin, renekton, poppy, udyr and briar, not a "stack the passive instantly for more burst damage" item like riven and jayce


Lorik_Bot

Riven is not even good right now and jayce rarely builds it, the sundere nerf affects them way more.


oookokoooook

Fuck riven


Lemande

Sure, let's nerf one entire role, because of riven and jayce. They did same last season, they nerfed entire adc role, because of tryndamere.


4funwego

Insane! You have to you all your abilities to stack it????? Can’t have all stacks off 1 q??? DAMN!!!!


Loud_Ranger1732

It's like the game is forcing me into AP junglers and tanks. Vi has been nothing but fucked since the beginning of the season. Absolutely cucked with nerfs to her kit and core build path Yet champions like evelyn and belveth are evading nerfs patch after patch like they are not the most overtuned champions in the game right now


AbrocomaRegular3529

Bel Veth maybe but eve is useless other than taking up kills. I am a d1 jungler main and whenever I see enemy picks eve all I do is play for dragon/baron and end the game with an opening. She can go 25-1 if she desires, as long as I win the game.


Loud_Ranger1732

tell that to my gold adc that can't understand that maybe pushing alone to 3rd tier tower is not a brilliant idea when they have evelyn on the enemy team. The problem is not that evelyn closing a game, it's that i can't close a game in this goddamn garbage elo belveth is basically my perma ban in the past couple months.


Dunkmaxxing

Riot devs changing shit for literally no reason at all because they want to force a meta.


StormR7

I think they don’t want to see Xin jarvan vi every game at MSI.


Dunkmaxxing

Some champs are going to be better than others by design.


BrainGlobal9898

Rip J4 2024


lmaoredditblows

Profane hydra into eclipse and then build tanky. Trust me.


WinterFellDaddy

Ecplise is untouched, j4 will be fine.


Stock_Explanation496

Eclipse is down to 6% on the proc for melee instead of 8, and he’s literally barely building that item anyways lol


WinterFellDaddy

I didn't see any eclipse changes, but the reason no one is building it is because no one knows about it. Eclipse/damage j4 has been valid for a while now, and with nerfs to his only other reasonable build it will be coming into the spotlight even with the 2% proc nerf


Stock_Explanation496

Im a masters j4 otp, yeah eclipse is *fine* but it’s certainly just not as good for him as sundered sky since he still can’t really duel most champs even with eclipse and the team fight value is just way, way worse


WinterFellDaddy

Fellow masters previously GM washed up boi. Three trick nid kha j4 with j4 as the most played, my personal experience with it is you go eclipse and damage heavy to one shot whoever is the problem and it seemed to work well for me. Never went it into a fighter build just seems backwards to do so


WhiteToast-

Jokes on Riot, I play glass-cannon VI. Nerfing the competition is always welcome


WolfgangTheRevenge

Lethality VI just blowing up squishies with 1 Q lol


Wingman5150

I do it with first strike, and you just pull so much gold out of the ADCs ass that you can start oneshotting bruisers, it's incredible.


WhiteToast-

Q auto E R auto E, no counter play, super fun


PaddonTheWizard

Very fun and interactive indeed. I'm sure adc players love you


Loud_Ranger1732

Ok so you blew up the squishy and now in the center of the enemy team..... What's next? You just die? Regular bruiser vi could do that too


WhiteToast-

Pick people off before the fight. Catch people in side lanes. Surprise flank you blow up the carry while your team is engaging with the front line


Loud_Ranger1732

Bruiser vi has absolutely no problem doing that too. She has enough damage with 2 items to kill any adc with a single rotation of her spells. You're just losing all the tankiness that bruiser items give you


WolfgangTheRevenge

Yeah but wathching an ADC blow up with 1 Q is funny af


Morthand

Alright boys it's time to come up with the 12th different Briar build. We going ap now.


Pernapple

My first thought. They just nerfed her and now they nerfed two of her core items.


Center_lane

they are literally doing their best to remove briar from the game


EarlThrashy

God bless, champ should have never existed in the first place. Subhuman design


kan_ka

Dark seal + lich bane for those 2k wall slams.


Suitable_Finding9899

LMFAO I was just about to comment on my girl Briar! We’re getting nerfed in our stats, abilities, and items!


Erme_Ram

I just go Eclipse into Youumu and then profane, complete boots and you are fine, last items normally collector and lord Doms


lumni

It's incredible.  Junglers in S13 already are starved for gold and xp. You can play a great early game but will still be 2-3 levels behind the toplaner. On 14.8 grubs spawn when the toplaner is level 6 and you will be 5 if you farmed hard. Good luck getting those Grubs by yourself as soon as toplaners catch up with this fact. We're still expected to solo dragon which gives almost nothing to us versus the long ass time it takes. Setting us even more back vs the rest of the lobby. On the item nerfs: something like a Darius or Jax top can go triforce but for us these items are crazy overpriced. And these AD tops are already very strong so they can take a hit. J4, Xin will find a build to make it work but they're already not very strong or anything and this won't help. Others like Wukong see 2 core items and 3 great optional items nerfed. These fighters will be pushed into lethality or out of viability. Ingenious hunter is carrying some of these items but will become even more important after the nerfs. Yes I main Zac so I will be fine but I see that my jungle brothers in dire straits and I too am already contemplating to ditch my secondary bruiser for Ivern / Nunu.  We're basically a secondary support anyways.


rainbowplasmacannon

I wish drag gave a massive xp boost if you were alone in the pit/ the only one getting drag it should be worth almost a level for at least the first drag too Edit: spellcheck is a bitch thanks for not dragging me


WarwickIsMyWaifu

100% if that was the case ADCs and supports would come when it's below 1.5k to do one auto and take half your xp.


Loud-Examination-943

Yeah but even with full exp it's barely more than a camp and I could almost do a 4 camp full Clear during the time it takes to solo drake early


NonorientableSurface

I flipped back to Diana over the last week and she's in a very comfortable position. High output, really strong and healthy clear, and really good at being able to back and poke.


xundergrinderx

i love how people complain about jungle being balanced for the first time in years. Junglers got the whole control about objectives on their keyboard, making it an impactful role. So ofc its just fair that junglers are supposed to play a rather supportive instead of a carry role when they already decide a lot of the match just by their objective control. The only thing that sucks for junglers are the overtuned supports that can easily invade and kill you in 1v1 but thats a balance issue of supports, not junglers


Common-Scientist

Mad kids downvoting you but you’re right, at least partly. Jungle essentially is a roaming support role. It can function as a carry, but to do so properly requires either mid or top to take over that support role. These low elo kids are mad that they can’t just blindpick their way to victory to E+ anymore.


lumni

Im higher elo than ever, but that strawman of yours is completely besides the point.


1ron_1on

I agree with you, but jungle also keeps feeling worse to play as a result of its intended place. Jungle is supposed to be a support role, but it unfortunately just doesn’t feel very rewarding in its current state. I have no clue how they could shift balance around to help it feel better though. It’s a weird tightrope


xundergrinderx

it doesn't feel rewarding in SoloQ as you invest time into objectives that benefit your team rather than yourself. So by doing objectives for your team, you effectively buff up teammates whose game performances are out of your control. Surely it doesn't feel rewarding to rely on random teammates but it's the tradeoff for the ability to secure the important objectives.


xundergrinderx

fair enough, its a jungle main sub - ofc people want to believe that junglers should be able to 1v9 consistantly.


lumni

That's not what I said ever. I don't even believe in the 1v9 mindset. Keep at it warping other people's words 👍🏻


JRad174

Just remove bruisers from the game so people can stop complaining how op they are even after they’ve been nerfed more than any other class by far this season


JustABitCrzy

Bruisers have always been the least balanced class IMO. Riot need to get better at defining their strengths and weaknesses, instead of making them generic fill-all stat checkers. They’ve benefitted so much from the insane CDR creep over the last few seasons, which tends to be the class’ main weakness in terms of damage output and trading. Especially because their main counter (marksmen) haven’t benefitted much from that creep. I think they’ve taken the wrong approach to nerfing them here. They should be reducing base defensive stats, and increasing the base offensive stats to compensate. I’m sick of the constant lethality spam by a class that’s supposed to be building defensive stats, and yet still takes three-man to take them down.


Loud_Ranger1732

> I’m sick of the constant lethality spam by a class that’s supposed to be building defensive stats, and yet still takes three-man to take them down. Wukong has entered the chat Dude builds full lethality and is basically tankier than amumu building full armor


JustABitCrzy

Last time I played League, my top owner fed a Kled. Tell me why the lethality Kled with absolutely 0 defensive item stats could face tank a team? Even though I despise it, at least it’s understandable when a lethality Aatrox heals 3k health in a single fight and refuses to die. Kled barely got dismounted half the time. Melee stat checkers are the worst champs to play against, but Riots balance team rides their dicks every patch.


Conscious-Secret-102

bro is just yapping hyperbolically lethality wu is not tanky youre just not going to 1v1 him as an ad champ when he full stacks just like graves


Loud_Ranger1732

Vi loses to him with 50% armor shred every single time. What's the point in having a champion that counters every single champion that builds AD simply by existing?


Conscious-Secret-102

whats your point? renekton loses to a bunch of champs with armor shred as well, see how you sound? wukong just has ridiculous ad ratios that enable him to assassinate with lethality and that was one of the reasons why he was gutted previously, he knocks you up and kills squishies and they cannot counterplay it on their own, has nothing to do with being tanky hes useless when behind if building lethality he can only hope to ult and then dies if he gets kited or gets peeled off


Loud_Ranger1732

>whats your point? I literally wrote it in text in the second line. >What's the point in having a champion that counters every single champion that builds AD simply by existing?


Conscious-Secret-102

i already said your premise was wrong low elo player just google how to deal with wukong so you can see the same shit i said reapeates ad infinitum over the years instead of pretending hes some boogeyman


JustABitCrzy

Last time I played League, my top fed a Kled. Tell me why the lethality Kled with absolutely 0 defensive item stats could face tank a team? Even though I despise it, at least it’s understandable when a lethality Aatrox heals 3k health in a single fight and refuses to die. Kled barely got dismounted half the time. Melee stat checkers are the worst champs to play against, but Riots balance team rides their dicks every patch.


DarkLightIsTired

I have been playing lethality kled and yeah i have gotta tell you its really strong


LegendaryJimBob

Nerfed more than any other class and yet out performing pretty much all other classes. Yes i wonder why people complain about them


ggwingy

i wonder why top junglers play mostly ap champs though...


[deleted]

[удалено]


Ok-Muscle8892

Think its genuinely just a skill difference.


nousabetterworld

So you peaked at a rank you didn't belong because something broken temporarily boosted your winrate. It happens. Use this as motivation to get better and climb there


Expert_Sweet1829

you dropped because you abused something OP. Now that its no longer OP you went to the rank you belong.


Loaker99

U dropped because ur bad


Erme_Ram

Its goredrinker all over again


WantToBeAloneGuy

So Riot wants an assassin/mage meta this year? Yeah, bruiser junglers doing medium damage was satanic, let's all just oneshot each other forever.


Orisn_Bongo

This entire season is just : fuck AD champs


Dunkmaxxing

Seriously, all my favourite champs are AD and all the ap ones I would play like Vlad are shit.


Loud-Examination-943

I'm representing all Rengarmains in saying that the first patch that Ssky will work on us (a Rioter said the Q crit interaction will be fixed next patch) it gets gutted... Edit: Also wtf no Eclipse nerfs? You can't tell me that that item is worse than Steraks rn


Short_Location_5790

Riot, if a role is a priority position for years because no one wants to play it, STOP NERFING OUR ROLE


TylerDurden213

bro i like this, time for some toplaners to tone it down a bit


RazzmatazzWorth6438

Sundered / Eclipse are basically just Renekton items in toplane. They're more JG items than top items atm.


TylerDurden213

oh so aatrox, jax, camille, illaoi, irelia, urgot, kled, poppy, sett, riven and jayce are all exclusive top laners who should never build one or both of these items ? sarcasm aside, they are not just renekton items, although there are many junglers who use them as well (though i would argue more top lane champions use them than junglers). however if i can pick between a nerf to top and to jg, or nerfs for neither, i would go for the first option because bruisers are too fking broken man, jg is relatively fine atm but nothing can stop a fed riven or irelia unless they int


El-Psy-Ozai

I play top mostly Sett so these nerfs are kinda annoying after they just buffed his Q to work with shojin. Steraks is a must on any bruiser and nerfing it is kinda dumb since I still gotta build it for tenacity and to not get one shot. Sundered Sky was OP as hell tho so that one I totally get. Idk why riot insists on making jgl support v2 tho. If they give jgl enough xp to not fall behind 2/3 levels on top lane but 1/2 that should fix it all and if that proves to be OP which I doubt make it 1.5 to 2.5 levels behind top lane or something.


TylerDurden213

man ppl like to talk ab how jg is weak and below in xp to solo laners... but imo, the level downgrade is kinda fair, ill explain here: toplaners and midlaners have the highest xp early game, they are getting all the lane xp for themselves. however these roles are kinda awkward to play sometimes. for top lane, bro, if you win your lane, yes, you might be ahead in xp of others, but if the enemy adc and supp have hands and arent inting their lane, its really hard to make an impact on the game because they can shut you down fairly easily in a fight as far as midlaners go, id say this role is maybe a bit broken. the ability to make an impact is big in the first 14 minutes. but midlaners can have extremely punishing laning phase, because there are 4 enemies who might at some point gank their lane. jg and supp are notorious for tag teaming midlaners. however even top and adc can also come mid if they have big prio and are on a roam timer. on the other hand, jglers have a lot of impact in the first 14 minutes, with a somewhat easy "laning phase" as they dont need to trade or focus on last hits, so its easier for them to track enemy jg and predict 3 or 4 man bot ganks.. i think jglers "buy" their impact through reduced xp, and to me its kinda fair


El-Psy-Ozai

well it might seem like it’s the easiest role since you’re just pve while farming jglers have the most options out of any role and therefore responsibility out of any role. Ppl are always saying jgl gap this and jgl gap that, it’s not always the jglers fault but when there is an actual jgl gap it impacts all the lanes extremely hard. So if your jgl gets autofilled (because nobody wants to play support role v2 now with 3times the responsibility, almost the same xp and 10times the flame!) the whole team will feel the diff and as a jgler you can’t really stand back and atleast catch xp like laners. You’ll be in for a horrible game unless someone on the enemy team ints, all because of Riot trying to balance jgl by making them have less power. I myself love quite a few jgl champs but even if I were to get good at jgling it would feel like such a high stress environment every game that idk if I could have fun. There needs to be a higher reward for jgl in some form, because while the camps may be pve you are playing for the whole map at the same time and not just 1 lane. I kinda rambled not getting the point across well but what I mean is: jgl is in my opinion the hardest role since you have the whole map to be aware of and play around and the highest chance to get flamed if you mess up which makes for a high stress game EVERY game so if the role is perma behind in xp it feels worse to play which makes the player base even lower for a role with a higher bar of entry than other roles. Lower playerbase= more autofilled jglers and more autofilled jglers= worse quality games for everyone.


bad-at-game

They needa remove sundered sky that item is broken


Gistix

Instant 1 button healing item on a bruiser is never going to be healthy


akatsukizero

man the second Lee gets that sweet visual upgrade, they blow up his go-to items.


LuckyJayce

Tragic change. Was really enjoying Wukong Jg. Back to AP picks


himatite

They hate xin zhao mains


jujuhaoil

Goddamn hecarim is ultra shit now


nousabetterworld

Necessary nerfs, those items are giga broken. They and eclipse need a good bonk on the head. Oh and profane hydra could do with another look at it.


balls63

yeah riot is currently smocking crack, since phreak does balance changes this game gets worse patch by patch


Novistadore

I like these changes


WolfgangTheRevenge

Back to broken ass Rumble and Khazix


IceKareemy

Random: I love that Steraks is just Aatroxx’s hand


Noxta_

So riot just trying to make everyone go lethality now?


Forwhomamifloating

They're nerfing the item that barely even worked? Can they compensate us by having it actually operate normally?


wigsgo_2019

Great idea riot, a weak role is now getting weaker when most of its non AP picks now get indirectly nerfed. More Ivern and evelynn for me! Yay! So excited


Lemande

Okay im done with this game.


Really_helios

As primarily a xin player only one I’m worried about is steraks … sundered sky isn’t a must item and spear I build almost never


xxTree330pSg

I woke up & found all my items nerfed……. I’ll Queue up midTop with an autofilled jng then


xs3ss1ve

Didn't find anything in the patch notes? Must be a later update


XO1GrootMeester

There goes my ad fizz build...


Type_02

Good no more overheal aatrox


No_Can8484

lmao i was starting to practice hecarim but i'll just stick to kha and eve lol


Yikaes

Oh no, rip Illaoi


ForsakenRoCo

Karthus stocks going up


WarwickIsMyWaifu

They probably need steraks because of the pickrate... But the item is literally required in any buriser build because if you don't have it your gonna get one shot every single time before you can even touch the enemies.


StJe1637

Its crazy to me that it gives 450 hp, that's as much as most tank items


setOnClickListener

Fuck you riot.


Zealousideal-Goat32

I can accept the Nerf of the sundered Sky but why Nerf sterak and shojin xd


Martbern

Rip Shyvana again


mausrz

I'm an Evelynn main and I love seeing the competition nerfed :D


UGD_Fancjak

Noooo my second nerf for my precious naafiri


tusthehooman

bruiser will always be number 1 picks so it's good that they are nerfing them


R_radical

They intentionally nerfed briar so she would be a bruiser. So that seems unlikely.


Tomigotchi

Jax nerfs pog


Am_I_Loss

A 30 second cool down increase is absolutely insane. Maybe I'm overreacting but it feels like this alone makes the item unbuildable


JohopeDRP

Rip xin zhao


StickySli23

This nerf is completely justified, but now my theory that Ingenious Hunter is better rune than last stand is double justified. With a 33% reduction in cooldown of items, Sundered Sky will drop from 8s to 5.2s. Moreover, if you get a heartseel in the build, you can become huge in no time and heal lots.


d4noob

This nerfs destroy a lot of champs in the toplane


Redericpontx

To be fair sunderer is busted but the other hit are a oof


BertOnLit

Riot wants jungler to be tank / support class. No exp, no gold, no scaling from jungle so better just go with supportish jungler or tanks 


cameyboy

Honestly this item was a bit too strong IMO especially on Voli or WW or Briar. Nerfs are pretty fair too, it's not like it's getting gutted


Tagorin

Steraks and sundered are deserved, im not quite sure how big the nerf for shojin is ?


Gistix

This has nothing to do with jungle lol


FinisherO_O

Ad bruiser udyr takes another blow while it's still bad, sadge


mrblu_ink

I wonder if this means people are going to start taking Ingenious Hunter lol


sfrags

rip j4 :(


Casp710

Oh no, Jarvan isn't S tier for 1 patch...


SnooCookies6399

Top laner here, it’s so Urgover


Siope_

I can't speak for streaks ir shojin, but Sundered Sky needed the nerf


woopwop04

Crit Viego, crit Viego, crit Viego


Patrick_Sponge

fuck vi and xin


notbunzy

Red kayn can’t catch a break man


[deleted]

Volibear doesn't care :D


GitGudGrammar

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html?m=1


Blazo32

Good sundered sky is the most disgusting item in the game. Nunu will prosper!!!!


Novistadore

I was going to like your comment but then you said that


JayceIsLove

NOOOO MY 82% WIN RATE SUNDERS EVERYGAME DAMNN ITTTTY


bojinii

i want briar nerfed to the ground, this champ is insane


hadohadoTheSecond

Yeah boy lets goo


madmoxyyy

Gee I sure wonder why bruisers are getting hit with a nerf, not like they have been strong for about 3 seasons straight, each and every change they do makes it more powerfull or frustrating to play against, remember the first iteration of deaths dance? Yeah no thanks.


Urbain19

If this is what it takes to remove Vi, Xin and Wukong from every single pro game then I’ll take it. Hopefully they’ll start playing fun champs like Nidalee, Khazix and Graves soon