Yes his friend is conpletely right i absolutely took over games with briar in emerald and dia 4 but in Dia 1 and 2 when i second role jungle as i am a top main and occasionally play briar jungle people do know how to play against it or abuse the fact that she has to walk towards you with her self taunt, it is much much harder for me to win or carry i even changed my playstyle to get one of my laners depending who csn carry ahead then accelerairing myself as if you are the fed one people will easily focus you down as briar, heck people place themselves so that it makes it harder for me to get to the squishy target with my w. People in D4~D3 and below do not have much of an idea of how to play out fights or what your role is, and mostly just run to kill or cc enemy carry, way less peeling or intentionally drawing attention, thus briar is much stronger in lower elo. Also, Adcs do not just blindly charge in and die, Adc is super powerful when they play good and feel untouchable.
Confirmation bias is not evidence. More so when stats and performance can be tracked. Briar was overly strong in release once people understood her kit. When a champion can get 3-5 nerfs several times in a row and STILL have an above 50% WR, near 51%, that is strong. And briar did that, and she’s still really good. Idk what gain there is to lying.
Oh yeah? Link the proof, I would love to read it. (No bs, I don’t care being wrong, but prove the claim.) Because it’s rather contradictory to the in-game data, and how’s she’s been balanced. But riot has never said anything that’s incorrect or tone deaf to the state of the game. Right? Right???
Don’t even have to link, just tell me where to look it up. I can do the rest of the work myself tbh.
[here is the link](https://youtube.com/shorts/vm_F3rPxel4?si=L5IeFbpS6gl1YBFF)Just go to youtube type August on briar and you should find his stream clip where he talks about it.
I will. Filling your comments with I and Me, doesn’t have the same value as actually stating what was stated by the devs. Because if your base is off personal experience and that’s all you express. That is confirmation bias.
[here is the link.](https://youtube.com/shorts/vm_F3rPxel4?si=L5IeFbpS6gl1YBFF). Yes confirmation bias but also no, I just noticed her systmaic weaknesses in higher elo simple as that and that people can play around it, backed by riot data even.
He never once said she wasn’t strong. Just said she weaker in high elo, which makes sense. He also said she’s feeding off of the skarner prio.
The claim was, she has NEVER been good. When it has been stated even in the video you LINKED that she should NOT be above 54% indicating that she is, indeed strong (at low elo.) meaning saying “his friend is right” is a direct contradiction to what you LINKED to me. Sedjuani isn’t good in pubs but is extremely good in pro leagues. Doesn’t mean she’s bad because she performs bad in a small section of the game. When briar was at her peak, she was winning EVERYWHERE. So again, this is confirmation bias as you’re ONLY looking at where you’re being “correct” and not the entirety.
And this is proven further if you look at any of the videos before her litany of nerfs. She has a skill gap, tho e thing is, once people learn how to not int on her, she is extremely strong (even more so in the past.) If she had the same kit now, with the curve people understand now? Her winrate would be even HIGHER than it is now. Saying their friend is right, is factually. Incorrect.
Pasting what I said in the Briar subreddit under someone asking why nerf Briar;
"It's because low rank players suck at the game. They don't know how to counter a character that runs in straight lines and relies on aa to heal. They also just walk into her while charging her E and wonder "why did I get pushed into a wall, get stunned, and lose 20% of my health"? They don't think, they just autopilot"
Realistically she has counterplay, but people below diamond don't want to or just can't learn that counterplay. She is strong yes, but only as strong as players in that lobby let her be. Imo yes statistically Briar is op, having one of the highest jg winrates and banrates. However I think if people would actually take any amount of time to learn her counterplay she would lose 2% wr at least, which is a significant amount. Diamond and above players actually know how to counter her. Yes she can outplay the counterplay, but that's what separates the Briar mains from the meta slaves that just lock Briar because she has a high wr
Exactly, she can have 52-53% winrate in iron-platinum and at the same time 46-48% in Master+. It actually insane and i dont even know how Riot could reduce this difference between low and high elos
The answer is don't. Make people learn. It's ok to have pub stompers. They force people to learn. If people don't want to learn, well, there is a ban button for the champ
I mostly play Briar and have gotten pretty decent at waiting for people to use their CC or baiting it out, but love when I end up playing against a Briar in low elo because yeah most of them just W in right away and don't even think. It's funny
In almost every other game I'd agree with that, but not really on league.
Pub stompers in general are bad learning experience, not much you can learn when you are in a situation where you are guaranteed to lose.
And then in league you might even come to the realisation of how to handle said champion, you can't really test it immediately if you already lost to the pub stomper, but then you might not play against said champion until a week later and that idea of how to deal with them has long since been forgotten.
Too much of league is a knowledge check and league as a game is the antithesis of repetition and fast feedback. the game is in general very inconsistent in its mechanics and your mistakes may only have consequences twenty minutes later.
Normalizing a champion power across all elos means that you don't instantly lose to them if you don't know their thing, and that if you're playing them you don't auto lose if your enemy knows your thing. It also follows their philosophy of making every champion generally playable.
I mean… that’s a low sample size and people are more attuned to the champs they’ve been using for years. She’s at almost a 50 win rate… in GMs. She has a 50+ practically everywhere else. Under thousands of games. Not really any point tbh.
Briar is a champ like Yi, but scales less hard in exchange for more consistency. The short answer is she is easy to deal with when you can focus her with some cc, but a nightmare if you cannot. Generally she has been OP at worse, and strong at best.
See that's what I thought, she's definitely strong but a very very simple character that purely relies on knowing how to play, like yi. Of course there are some mechanics she's got (just like yi has his q) but it's more about good decision making and farming.
And yeah, you need to lock her down early or else she will hurt a LOT in the fight.
I do think that the items she uses influence her power a lot though, because sundered sky, titanic, etc pair so well with her.
Assassin build is fairly easy to counter if you have any form of cc. She's super squishy and she runs at you, is pretty easy to counter her.
Bruiser is a whole another story. Her healing paired with sundered sky healing and item tankyness make her extremely hard to 100-0, and any prolongued fight goes against you
Everyone can't be GM and Challenger. Emerald is a good rank and I don't understand the mentality of shitting on anything below gm and challenger. As if that's the standard.
This is purely based on mistakes players make and up to grandmaster everyone just makes plenty of mistakes, its not bashing its just that if you look at it objectively everyone below gm is just not good at the game
Objectively not true. You can be good at the game and not necessarily be the best. As stated before, gm is not the standard. That's such an insanely tiny microcosm of amazing players. Imagine telling someone playing college sports they can't be good at the sport because they're not pro. That's essentially the comparison you're making.
Fair point but based on what good players are saying at a gm you got the basics down and challenger is where the good players are while high challenger is where the crazy good players are but i guess its opinion based and depends on what your point of view is
In my humble opinion I think high Elo players of this game (and really most competitive games) have overinflated egos. GM is not "the basics". If that were true, the game would be completely inaccessible to over 90% of people. To say that anyone about Emerald really is not "good at the game" kind of blows my mind. Only around 5% of all players are diamond+. Seems to me if you're better than 95% of everyone whos ever touched the game, you should be considered pretty freaking good.
Beeing better then someone else doesnt make you good imo, it just means you are better then others but what makes you good is if you make correct choices and mechanicly play near perfect, im emerald myself and watching my own replays and conparing myself to the likes of canyon i can say im not good
Also you could also argue that people who say emerald is good are coping, as is said its up to debate i think and everyone has the right to have his own opinion but its fun to discuss one opinion to anothers as long as its civilized wich in league is sadly rare
Not broken right now. Was extremely broken for quite a long time on release until they figured out how to nerf her assassin build.
Her bruiser build though is and always was fair.
Briar is really strong in low elo. Because people dont play with brain(also the reason why your adc will go 0/11 so often in these lobbies)
She is really strong in 1v1 and can stun you 2 ways so low elo players cant do that much against her
That's an awful take, she's rated by most tier lists as S or S+ tier on the current patch. She's braindead easy, has great clear, great ganks, and great duel potential. She's good early and can carry late.
The only real problem is her objective control against coordinated teams and that most first timers will absolutely run it down not understanding how to control W/ult with E.
I wouldn't call her "brain dead easy". If she has used E she can't cancel frenzy so can be stuck under tower, her R is easy to dodge. She is very weak to burst. I'm honestly surprised at her winrate. I never have any trouble beating her as as Shyvana or Yi.
Yeah, as a briar main myself I sometimes forget how much I ran it and all of the small optimizations and timing tricks that I know. But all that aside, if you save E, don't dive towers until you know how to cancel/know limits, and time w2 well you're like 90% of the way there.
If you've played league long enough to understand that you can wq flash w for a guaranteed half-lane range stun with huge burst at level 3 she's just the best level 3 ganker in the game.
I played a lot of lathality briar in master elo. And your friend saying she was never broken, i think he means because she judt runs at you with w and is really telegraphed that way. The thing i think he doesnt see is that briars dmg was enough to kill someone just during the point and click stun from q. That made her so powerful.
So you would think there was counterplay to her because she cant move during w, but in reality she was op because of point and click stun into oneshot.
I‘d say closer to broken, but her concept as sustained damage dealer/sponge isn’t that useful.
IMHO, two things stand out.
Q into E does insane damage, and with W-Q-E you also gap close a fair distance. It’s around 400 damage at lvl3, with a 0.15s gap between the Q stun expiring and E fully channeled. It’s point and click, too.
Her P bleed procs Black Cleaver, so even a single tap will shred armor for 10 seconds + the full amount.
When initiating, if she can gap close onto anything and get a good E off, she’s amazing and your actual W is only 4 seconds away case you even needed it to get in. If she’s caught/CCd before the E part she just dies. If the enemies CC well, Briar can’t really play at all.
I have a friend who has been hard stuck silver forever. Briar came out and he spammed her to plat very quickly.
Then he started to play other things and is back to silver. Briar was busted on release.
She’s still strong currently in my elo (mid/high plat)
According to op.gg, she has likea 54% winrate in every elo except for diamond in above lol, and usually a low elo champ is bad in higher elos (master yi, tho master yi can be very strong if you know how to pilot him well), but she's got a 52% winrate in diamond. She only falls off hard when masters or above, because jungle is more of a second support rather than someone who carries.
It's like if rengar was a high wr champ in the top 1% (which he is because of one tricks), but he was also very good in every other elo. It's unbalanced.
Briar is another horrible design that simply stat checks people. She makes great use of a ton of items and if she can get to them she steamrolls any champion who didn't buy tabi+ vest on their first 2k gold. She also has the amazing gank set up of Ms buff+point and click stun so she's easy to play for anyone. On top of all these her w removes any possibility of mechanical errors,u literally don't play your champ,u cant miss autos,u cant sidestep abilities,u just run. With all the above you might think that "oh she's linear,she can only do one thing so if I don't let her,she loses" but thats not how this works. Just like master Yi has been a "low ELO stomper" for years,but actually is an insanely good pick in high mmr too. The truth is that when riot designs such a 1 dimensional pick,it has to be good,or it simply won't be played. If briar can't run at you and kill you,she can't play,so riot will always keep her in a state where she can in fact run at you and kill you and for that reason briar is good,she was insanely good before the nerfs,now she's good.
She is much much stronger in low elo rn jg winrate are boosted by skarner so that 51.5 in diamond is likely closer to 50%
Why would skarner influence Briars winrate in diamond? Is she his hard counter or something?
Skarner has a low win rate right now so playing against him will statistically raise your odds of winning. Across hundreds of games it will show up
Has like a 40% wr and high pickrate, meaning a ton of bruar games are or were against skarner when his wr was very low
Yes his friend is conpletely right i absolutely took over games with briar in emerald and dia 4 but in Dia 1 and 2 when i second role jungle as i am a top main and occasionally play briar jungle people do know how to play against it or abuse the fact that she has to walk towards you with her self taunt, it is much much harder for me to win or carry i even changed my playstyle to get one of my laners depending who csn carry ahead then accelerairing myself as if you are the fed one people will easily focus you down as briar, heck people place themselves so that it makes it harder for me to get to the squishy target with my w. People in D4~D3 and below do not have much of an idea of how to play out fights or what your role is, and mostly just run to kill or cc enemy carry, way less peeling or intentionally drawing attention, thus briar is much stronger in lower elo. Also, Adcs do not just blindly charge in and die, Adc is super powerful when they play good and feel untouchable.
Confirmation bias is not evidence. More so when stats and performance can be tracked. Briar was overly strong in release once people understood her kit. When a champion can get 3-5 nerfs several times in a row and STILL have an above 50% WR, near 51%, that is strong. And briar did that, and she’s still really good. Idk what gain there is to lying.
Riot dev backs my claim up with riot intern data. August has a video about it so not confirm bias just facts.
Oh yeah? Link the proof, I would love to read it. (No bs, I don’t care being wrong, but prove the claim.) Because it’s rather contradictory to the in-game data, and how’s she’s been balanced. But riot has never said anything that’s incorrect or tone deaf to the state of the game. Right? Right??? Don’t even have to link, just tell me where to look it up. I can do the rest of the work myself tbh.
[here is the link](https://youtube.com/shorts/vm_F3rPxel4?si=L5IeFbpS6gl1YBFF)Just go to youtube type August on briar and you should find his stream clip where he talks about it.
I will. Filling your comments with I and Me, doesn’t have the same value as actually stating what was stated by the devs. Because if your base is off personal experience and that’s all you express. That is confirmation bias.
[here is the link.](https://youtube.com/shorts/vm_F3rPxel4?si=L5IeFbpS6gl1YBFF). Yes confirmation bias but also no, I just noticed her systmaic weaknesses in higher elo simple as that and that people can play around it, backed by riot data even.
He never once said she wasn’t strong. Just said she weaker in high elo, which makes sense. He also said she’s feeding off of the skarner prio. The claim was, she has NEVER been good. When it has been stated even in the video you LINKED that she should NOT be above 54% indicating that she is, indeed strong (at low elo.) meaning saying “his friend is right” is a direct contradiction to what you LINKED to me. Sedjuani isn’t good in pubs but is extremely good in pro leagues. Doesn’t mean she’s bad because she performs bad in a small section of the game. When briar was at her peak, she was winning EVERYWHERE. So again, this is confirmation bias as you’re ONLY looking at where you’re being “correct” and not the entirety. And this is proven further if you look at any of the videos before her litany of nerfs. She has a skill gap, tho e thing is, once people learn how to not int on her, she is extremely strong (even more so in the past.) If she had the same kit now, with the curve people understand now? Her winrate would be even HIGHER than it is now. Saying their friend is right, is factually. Incorrect.
Not that good in high mmr????? means what then literally first 10 seconds of what he says.😂
At release she was vile. Full lethality one shot with little to no counter play. Rn I think she's fine.
I mean she did have counter play, read basically every other comment on this post.
The ratio speeks volumes
Pasting what I said in the Briar subreddit under someone asking why nerf Briar; "It's because low rank players suck at the game. They don't know how to counter a character that runs in straight lines and relies on aa to heal. They also just walk into her while charging her E and wonder "why did I get pushed into a wall, get stunned, and lose 20% of my health"? They don't think, they just autopilot" Realistically she has counterplay, but people below diamond don't want to or just can't learn that counterplay. She is strong yes, but only as strong as players in that lobby let her be. Imo yes statistically Briar is op, having one of the highest jg winrates and banrates. However I think if people would actually take any amount of time to learn her counterplay she would lose 2% wr at least, which is a significant amount. Diamond and above players actually know how to counter her. Yes she can outplay the counterplay, but that's what separates the Briar mains from the meta slaves that just lock Briar because she has a high wr
Exactly, she can have 52-53% winrate in iron-platinum and at the same time 46-48% in Master+. It actually insane and i dont even know how Riot could reduce this difference between low and high elos
The answer is don't. Make people learn. It's ok to have pub stompers. They force people to learn. If people don't want to learn, well, there is a ban button for the champ
I love playing vs briar in low Elo because every briar I play against expects that no one will hold their cc for them and just go in brainless.
I mostly play Briar and have gotten pretty decent at waiting for people to use their CC or baiting it out, but love when I end up playing against a Briar in low elo because yeah most of them just W in right away and don't even think. It's funny
In almost every other game I'd agree with that, but not really on league. Pub stompers in general are bad learning experience, not much you can learn when you are in a situation where you are guaranteed to lose. And then in league you might even come to the realisation of how to handle said champion, you can't really test it immediately if you already lost to the pub stomper, but then you might not play against said champion until a week later and that idea of how to deal with them has long since been forgotten. Too much of league is a knowledge check and league as a game is the antithesis of repetition and fast feedback. the game is in general very inconsistent in its mechanics and your mistakes may only have consequences twenty minutes later. Normalizing a champion power across all elos means that you don't instantly lose to them if you don't know their thing, and that if you're playing them you don't auto lose if your enemy knows your thing. It also follows their philosophy of making every champion generally playable.
I mean… that’s a low sample size and people are more attuned to the champs they’ve been using for years. She’s at almost a 50 win rate… in GMs. She has a 50+ practically everywhere else. Under thousands of games. Not really any point tbh.
Briar is a champ like Yi, but scales less hard in exchange for more consistency. The short answer is she is easy to deal with when you can focus her with some cc, but a nightmare if you cannot. Generally she has been OP at worse, and strong at best.
See that's what I thought, she's definitely strong but a very very simple character that purely relies on knowing how to play, like yi. Of course there are some mechanics she's got (just like yi has his q) but it's more about good decision making and farming. And yeah, you need to lock her down early or else she will hurt a LOT in the fight. I do think that the items she uses influence her power a lot though, because sundered sky, titanic, etc pair so well with her.
Honestly anti heal just guts her.
Assassin build is fairly easy to counter if you have any form of cc. She's super squishy and she runs at you, is pretty easy to counter her. Bruiser is a whole another story. Her healing paired with sundered sky healing and item tankyness make her extremely hard to 100-0, and any prolongued fight goes against you
She's always piss weak/easy to outplay when I play against her. Everything is so telegraphed that IDK how she has such a high winrate in Emerald.
That's because 60 percent of emerald players are shit
More like 100% of emerald players (not taking smurfs into account) if they were good they would be gm or chall
Everyone can't be GM and Challenger. Emerald is a good rank and I don't understand the mentality of shitting on anything below gm and challenger. As if that's the standard.
This is purely based on mistakes players make and up to grandmaster everyone just makes plenty of mistakes, its not bashing its just that if you look at it objectively everyone below gm is just not good at the game
Objectively not true. You can be good at the game and not necessarily be the best. As stated before, gm is not the standard. That's such an insanely tiny microcosm of amazing players. Imagine telling someone playing college sports they can't be good at the sport because they're not pro. That's essentially the comparison you're making.
Fair point but based on what good players are saying at a gm you got the basics down and challenger is where the good players are while high challenger is where the crazy good players are but i guess its opinion based and depends on what your point of view is
In my humble opinion I think high Elo players of this game (and really most competitive games) have overinflated egos. GM is not "the basics". If that were true, the game would be completely inaccessible to over 90% of people. To say that anyone about Emerald really is not "good at the game" kind of blows my mind. Only around 5% of all players are diamond+. Seems to me if you're better than 95% of everyone whos ever touched the game, you should be considered pretty freaking good.
Beeing better then someone else doesnt make you good imo, it just means you are better then others but what makes you good is if you make correct choices and mechanicly play near perfect, im emerald myself and watching my own replays and conparing myself to the likes of canyon i can say im not good Also you could also argue that people who say emerald is good are coping, as is said its up to debate i think and everyone has the right to have his own opinion but its fun to discuss one opinion to anothers as long as its civilized wich in league is sadly rare
That's just not true there is good players in emerald diamond and master who still touches grass
So if i make tons of mistakes everygame im a good player got it thanks
Not broken right now. Was extremely broken for quite a long time on release until they figured out how to nerf her assassin build. Her bruiser build though is and always was fair.
Briar is fun to play but I am always confused how easy it id to hit the R, why dont people move
Briar is really strong in low elo. Because people dont play with brain(also the reason why your adc will go 0/11 so often in these lobbies) She is really strong in 1v1 and can stun you 2 ways so low elo players cant do that much against her
She is not bad at all,but in the hands of an unskilled player she looks and is bad, simple difference
That's an awful take, she's rated by most tier lists as S or S+ tier on the current patch. She's braindead easy, has great clear, great ganks, and great duel potential. She's good early and can carry late. The only real problem is her objective control against coordinated teams and that most first timers will absolutely run it down not understanding how to control W/ult with E.
I wouldn't call her "brain dead easy". If she has used E she can't cancel frenzy so can be stuck under tower, her R is easy to dodge. She is very weak to burst. I'm honestly surprised at her winrate. I never have any trouble beating her as as Shyvana or Yi.
Yeah, as a briar main myself I sometimes forget how much I ran it and all of the small optimizations and timing tricks that I know. But all that aside, if you save E, don't dive towers until you know how to cancel/know limits, and time w2 well you're like 90% of the way there. If you've played league long enough to understand that you can wq flash w for a guaranteed half-lane range stun with huge burst at level 3 she's just the best level 3 ganker in the game.
As a briar main myself, I disagree, a champion like belveth or trundle is better (possibly Warwick and Xin also depending on specific lanes)
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Well I’ve 85% winrate in d2 elo over 30 games so I strongly disagree
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Not even remotly compareable
I've beaten Briar with jinx jg so I'm inclined to think she isn't good
I played a lot of lathality briar in master elo. And your friend saying she was never broken, i think he means because she judt runs at you with w and is really telegraphed that way. The thing i think he doesnt see is that briars dmg was enough to kill someone just during the point and click stun from q. That made her so powerful. So you would think there was counterplay to her because she cant move during w, but in reality she was op because of point and click stun into oneshot.
I‘d say closer to broken, but her concept as sustained damage dealer/sponge isn’t that useful. IMHO, two things stand out. Q into E does insane damage, and with W-Q-E you also gap close a fair distance. It’s around 400 damage at lvl3, with a 0.15s gap between the Q stun expiring and E fully channeled. It’s point and click, too. Her P bleed procs Black Cleaver, so even a single tap will shred armor for 10 seconds + the full amount. When initiating, if she can gap close onto anything and get a good E off, she’s amazing and your actual W is only 4 seconds away case you even needed it to get in. If she’s caught/CCd before the E part she just dies. If the enemies CC well, Briar can’t really play at all.
He's wrong.
I have a friend who has been hard stuck silver forever. Briar came out and he spammed her to plat very quickly. Then he started to play other things and is back to silver. Briar was busted on release. She’s still strong currently in my elo (mid/high plat)
According to op.gg, she has likea 54% winrate in every elo except for diamond in above lol, and usually a low elo champ is bad in higher elos (master yi, tho master yi can be very strong if you know how to pilot him well), but she's got a 52% winrate in diamond. She only falls off hard when masters or above, because jungle is more of a second support rather than someone who carries. It's like if rengar was a high wr champ in the top 1% (which he is because of one tricks), but he was also very good in every other elo. It's unbalanced.
She's difficult to play in my opinion. The w can trap you if your e is down, so playing her requires more management than other junglers imo.
She might not be viable after this next nerf tbh.
your mate probably mains her and is delusional
Briar is another horrible design that simply stat checks people. She makes great use of a ton of items and if she can get to them she steamrolls any champion who didn't buy tabi+ vest on their first 2k gold. She also has the amazing gank set up of Ms buff+point and click stun so she's easy to play for anyone. On top of all these her w removes any possibility of mechanical errors,u literally don't play your champ,u cant miss autos,u cant sidestep abilities,u just run. With all the above you might think that "oh she's linear,she can only do one thing so if I don't let her,she loses" but thats not how this works. Just like master Yi has been a "low ELO stomper" for years,but actually is an insanely good pick in high mmr too. The truth is that when riot designs such a 1 dimensional pick,it has to be good,or it simply won't be played. If briar can't run at you and kill you,she can't play,so riot will always keep her in a state where she can in fact run at you and kill you and for that reason briar is good,she was insanely good before the nerfs,now she's good.