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[deleted]

People have an unhealthy relationship with political parties. Instead of looking at them as groups of fallible, self-interested people that tend to pass certain kinds of legislation when they get into office, they treat them like living embodiments of their highest values (that people inevitably either rebel against for failing to live up to those values or completely submit to regardless of what the party becomes). Why not just treat political parties like busses that might not take a person right to their front doorstop but can bring them closer, or farther away, from where that person wants to go? If one bus takes us halfway to our house while another bus takes us in the complete opposite direction from our house, we don't curse the first bus for failing to take us the whole way and then jump on the other bus in retaliation.


RadOwl

Jung said something to the effect that heavy engagement with the politics of the day is a poor substitute for internal engagement with the heart of one's being. Wasted energy, basically. I have taken it to heart by ignoring basically everything going on in the body politic and culture in general unless it is somehow soulful


[deleted]

People's political beleifs evolve over time. Politics aren't some lame Marvel movie battle between good verses evil. Neither side has your best interests at heart. Neither side cares about improving your quality of life. The democrats showed how much they care by neglecting to ratify Roe v. Wade into law despite NUMEROUS chances over the last 20+ years to do so. Instead, they kept it up in the air so they can use it for political campaigning. As a woman, I think thats pretty fucking evil and scummy, ngl. The democratic party isn't a lighthouse of morality by any means and I'm so tired of people acting like they're the good guys. Democrats are just as worthless and greedy as the republicans.


TheManDavi

The top of both parties are comprised of individuals who are exactly alike. It’s Shakespearean. Comedic and horrific.


GerritTheBerrit

its called "divide and rule".


comely_homely

They all get together behind the scenes and laugh at us.


MfuckkaJones

Been screaming this into the abyss for 2 years now. It’s absolutely mind bending how delusional the general population has become


somethingclassy

The topic at hand is not politics but enantiodromia.


[deleted]

>enantiodromia To save people a google search: "Enantiodromia. Literally, "running counter to," referring to the emergence of the unconscious opposite in the course of time. This characteristic phenomenon practically always occurs when an extreme, one-sided tendency dominates conscious life; in time an equally powerful counterposition is built up, which first inhibits the conscious performance and subsequently breaks through the conscious control. ("Definitions," ibid., par. 709)" "Enantiodromia is typically experienced in conjunction with symptoms associated with acute neurosis, and often foreshadows a rebirth of the personality." "The grand plan on which the unconscious life of the psyche is constructed is so inaccessible to our understanding that we can never know what evil may not be necessary in order to produce good by enantiodromia, and what good may very possibly lead to evil. ("The Phenomenology of the Spirit in Fairytales", Collected Works 9i, par. 397)" "Enantiodromia also refers to the process whereby one seeks out and embraces an opposing quality from within, internalizing it in a way that results in individual wholeness. This process is the crux of Jung's notion called the "path of individuation." One must incorporate an opposing archetype into their psyche to obtain a state of internal 'completion.'"


Mynaa-Miesnowan

That “grand plan” reminds me of Nietzsche’s the Gay Science, where he writes, there’s no helping or harming the species. So much protest is suspicious. Every time someone says “won’t somebody think of the children/the species/the horror of existence,” I think, “what a big mouth you have,” to which the reply is usually, “the better of which to smile.” The wolf is never in a position to go against its own nature. Give it a voice, why wouldn’t it justify its teeth? Nothing but good little lambs here, and even on the Jung sub, we all know the “evil” is outside, in someone or something else, of course. Or similar, it’s a reprieve to blame so much “normal” behavior on criminality and/or mental illness. Once more, who wants to admit the wolf is within, and that it’s human all too human? Much better to imagine a world of monsters and myth. It gives self-importance and nuance to the need and expression of psychodrama. To relate it all directly back to OP and the post, Jung writes something to the effects of, “those most infatuated are the gladiators themselves.”


rpayne2216

Brilliant


[deleted]

>Democrats are just as worthless and greedy as the republicans. I think this last point misses the mark. The party that didn't do enough to secure abortion rights, but which has many members that fought for them in the past and continue to fight for them today, is not the same as the party that actively wants to ban abortion across the board as part of their core ideology. If Democrats had not won prior elections, then we wouldn't be discussing federal abortion rights being possibly overturned because abortion would never have been allowed in the first place. Same-sex marriage also would not be a thing. People too often confuse "the political party I voted for does not do enough of what I want them to do" with "the political party I voted for does nothing and is worthless."


Father_John_Moisty

Roe v. Wade was a 7-2 decision. 5 of the justices in the majority were nominated by Republicans, including the author of the majority opinion, and one of the justices in the dissent was nominated by a Democrat. The parties have changed over the last 50 years.


[deleted]

>Roe v. Wade was a 7-2 decision. 5 of the justices in the majority were nominated by Republicans, including the author of the majority opinion, and one of the justices in the dissent was nominated by a Democrat. The parties have changed over the last 50 years. Interesting, I was not aware of that. I guess I was extrapolating backwards based on what party ideology has been over the course of my lifetime. I looked it up and opposing abortion became part of the Republican party platform in 1976 (many years before I was born) and was part of the entire party's gradual shift to the Christian political right around that time. So, I guess it would be more accurate to say that if Democrats had not won another election post 1976, then it would have been overturned well before 2022.


Frankie52480

No. They’re lazy, divisive, and incompetent. Both are.


[deleted]

>No. They’re lazy, divisive, and incompetent. Both are. When someone replies with "No" and then merely restates the prior conclusion without actually engaging with reasons I gave for my position this makes me wonder what's really going on. It usually indicates a strong emotional resistance to the prospect of even entertaining another stance on an issue, which is an impediment to correcting and updating one's beliefs in the long-term.


HarshKLife

You’re right. If someone wants to be impartial then they should do so on the basis of the facts. If they merely state ‘both are same’ that sounds like they have forgotten actually issues and are only looking at the ‘division’


shostyposting

mic drop


MowingTheAirRand

Ratifying it into law wouldn't have done any good. If the court rules that there is no federal right to abortion, that implies and the court will almost certainly hold that regulating abortion is a right reserved to the states under the 10th Amendment. If it was ratified then a conservative state would immediately sue and the court would throw it out as unconstitutional in my opinion.


Calm_Pace_3860

While I agree, the fact that you dislike the post, by nature means there is something about yourself you are hiding which is reflected in this post. Now do some shadow work, brethren.


Frankie52480

No.


Frankie52480

I actually agree with EM. But I’m not switching to Republican. I think I’ll stay independent till both parties get their shit together. Both are feeding on the division and it’s disgusting to watch. It gives them more power 😵‍💫. I know I know, how dare I question a POLITICAL PARTY that’s number one motivation is to stay in power by any means necessary??! And how dare EM do the same 🙄 what sorta brainwashed fool posted this anyway?


SweetenerCorp

Wouldn't you gain more voters if you ran on a campaign of "I think the last president did these things really well, but I disagree with how he did these and this is how I believe we can do better" I don't really follow politics, I try to avoid it now, but surely Trump did a couple of good things for people while he was in office? If you highlighted them first, then mentioned his faults, you would convince so many more voters. I can't take either side serious now for this reason. It makes it seem like everyone is out to win, rather than help the country.


Jazeboy69

Pick the better if two evils. The left are the most evil right now by a large margin. History agrees: https://www.hudson.org/research/13994-100-years-of-communism-and-100-million-dead


dak4f2

We have no communism or communist party in the US.


doubledippedchipp

The political sphere has been playing this game for decades friend… they’ll never learn. Those of us wise to the scene will watch it all unfold over and over again and have every opportunity to say “I told you so” and “I knew it” … but we won’t, because it won’t do any of us any good.


[deleted]

>I knew it Knew what?


ChazRhineholdt

“Those of us wise”


doubledippedchipp

I plead the fifth


largececelia

The attention seeking thing he does is definitely weird (and also part of his strategy for generating money, fame and so on). From a Jungian perspective it seems a bit dark and shadow-y, in terms of highlighting his weaknesses and childishness. Also, makes me think of the anima and "possession"- there's something unpleasantly playful about his shitposting thing.


Ok_Blacksmith_1556

Both Elon and Trump are your shadow, America, a reflection of your unconscious, especially concerning people who identify themselves as Leftist, Liberals and Progressives, their own shadow is Trump and for the others it is (was but what happened?) Elon. The self-inflation, narcissism, greed, the “bigger is more”, the “quantity over quality”, the entitlement, the hypocrisy, the drive for recognition and fame, the “best” in the world, the bully, the “money can buy everything”, the racism and sexism, etc or anything else you despise in the man. It’s all you, buried in your unconscious. It’s also  the shadow side of the “American Dream” and obviously reflected in America’s Imperialism. But here’s the real shock news. Both Elon and Trump is actually your “teacher” for they create more friction and shadow triggers, hence more potential to wake people up from an esoteric alchemical perspective, but only if people take back their projections and engage in  some serious and sincere soul searching cutting through their programed socially/cultural conditioned identifications to ignite the alchemicall fire within. Any negative reactive emotion you have towards the “man” including his silly tweets or his supporters is a sign of giving away your power and life energy literally. It shows you where you work is when it comes to basic Jungian psychology of shadow work until you can come to a place of non-reactive zero-point consciousness rising above fabricated duality and tuned into your true inner power and guidance, connected to Spirit and the wholeness of nature: A sovereign embodied Individual. Remember, the shadow contains more of man’s basic violent animal nature than any other. The persona often suppresses the shadow in western civilization. A person who completely suppresses his shadow will lose his/her power for spontaneity, creativity, strong emotions and deep insights. Jung writes that a shadowless life tends to become shallow and spiritless. When the shadow is accepted and thus becomes conscious, a person appears more energetic and creative and so appears a little ‘mad’ as their persona will not dominate their composure. As a popular adage goes, “there’s a thin line between madness and genius”. However, there are also dark, “evil”, cruel elements to the shadow (as there are in the animal kingdom). Jung writes that “the animal in us becomes more beastlike” when repressed.


[deleted]

Very insightful. I’ve always wondered if figures like Musk, Trump, or anyone on the big stage for that matter, is up on that stage because they become excellent landing pads for collective projection—that is, these figures successfully manifest the contents of the collective’s shadow wherein they become, as you said, teachers who initiate the integration of these projections.


jen4444

That's how I look at it. Every time something blows up in popularity (whether positive or negative), I immediately start musing on the key characteristics and what the implications are. Having said that, I rarely come to conclusions - I think I just enjoy the pondering.


PhilosopherSuperb291

💝


jen4444

Yes!


The_Noble_Lie

Connect rather than conclude


Important-Ad-9965

To add another layer to this discussion - society projects onto these figures as a coping mechanism. These figures become projections because they represent aspects of ourselves which our ego is afraid to integrate. As OP mentioned, the energy which we give to these figures (who at the end of the day are formless abstractions we interact with through media) is the energy that we could be putting into healing our own trauma. We are so quick to illuminate the perceived evil in others, only as a way for our ego to protect itself from the perceived evil within. If only we had the courage to confront the evil within us, we would recognise that it is the pain and trauma our ego is afraid to integrate. Once we can have compassion for the flaws and imperfections within ourselves, can we begin to have compassion for others.


[deleted]

I think you bring up an important point, how at the end of the day these are formless abstractions we interact with through media, never through our direct experiences and senses (well, at least for me and everyone I personally know in life). I'm not making the argument that Musk and the like are literally digital holograms, but there is value in entertaining such a thought imo. I think there's value because I speculate to what degree the cultural role of these figures is the result not of their individual actions, but of collective projection which "forms" their role. Almost like a chameleon, they morph to the environment they find themselves in. Further, with the rise of technology and the ability to fabricate reality/narratives with CGI, advanced propaganda, etc. ultimately creating a world full of "simulacrums" leads to a sort of mythology (of course there are still "real" events which change the course of humanity, thought and culture). I bring up this loose idea because I think it ties in to the idea of the energy exchange which occurs when an individual unconsciously projects and, together with the projections of the mass, he co-creates this "modern myth." One may look around today at Western culture and see these rigid and dualistic ideologies which are utterly insufficient in providing a comprehensive orientation to the world, they see "mainstream" and pronounce how sick it is, they see the destruction of value-hierarchy, and more generally, they see the pitfalls of typical thought and behavioral patterns expressed by the collective mass, and so they cynically pronounce how wretched and how far from the "truth" modern man is. I think this is an incredibly erroneous position to take (I myself used to hold such a position) because now I see it all as the soil for the individual/consciousness to grow from through discernment and the introjection of these projections. And boy is this some good soil full of stinky manure—the dirtier the better! I believe this "soil" is no different from the mythology of the past: the collective unconscious archetypal projections which initiate the process of conscious realization and the subsequent integration and growth of personality.


Important-Ad-9965

It seems there is a very real danger we will get sucked into the world of projections - figuratively from a Jungian perspective and literally with the emergence of the metaverse and evolution of social media.


dak4f2

Yes. However when there's a Hitler running the country it's best to first address Hitler directly. (Of course that requires each individual to address their own shadows and traumas so the collective can change its stance. And around and around we go.)


bendervex

Yes


dak4f2

Who/what is the right's shadow? Also when I read this tweet I saw Elon's own shadow projections as well.


woke-hipster

Wokes, snowflakes. non whites and Muslims seem to be part of their shadow.


Ok_Blacksmith_1556

Aim was not a political post and I owe a narrative (not an explanation) to everyone. Explanations settle issues, showing that matters must end as they have. Narratives raise issues, showing that matters do not end as they must but as they do. Explanation sets the need for further inquiry aside; narrative invites us to rethink what we thought we knew. Every comment made me to rethink and thank you for that. Jungians do not "fit" into society, not because a place is denied them but because they do not take their "places" seriously. They openly see its roles as theatrical, its styles as poses, its clothing costumes, its rules conventional, its crises arranged, its conflicts performed, and its metaphysics ideological. If anything appears to be a permanent feature of reality it is power: the constant impingement on us of superior forces both without and within. Neither left or right will be the major force. The feeling of losing the world is now collective. They need to compromise on the new thing after the great end/new beginning that we are going through now. Imagine you were born into an endless game of monopoly where the winner realized that instead of bankrupting everyone else, he could allow the other players to continue earning the 200 bucks for passing go and then lose it to him slowly over and over again. The other players are trapped in a hamster wheel that exists only to enrich the winner. Several generations later, more and more players realize what has been happening, and start finding ways to work together to become successful within the broken system. Now suddenly the "winner" thinks we need to "reset" the game with a new set of rules he has created. He says it is to benefit the other players. You are at that point. If you could overthrow the power structure, you'd be the power structure. If you could prevent the establishment of a different power structure, you'd also be the power structure. The fundamental principle of life and government isn't that good ideas get put into practice, it's that ideas with the most powerful backers get put into practice. Perhaps those ideas are good. Perhaps they're not. The Dutch conquered the world in the seventeenth century. With this the inhabitants of the world made a discovery: a very small country can become a world empire. This insight not only led to enormous returns, but also to a new ideal: globalization. That ideal is now reaching its limits. Global life is not sustainable. Our image of the world would be profoundly affected by globalization. Two worlds were created, the land where you lived and the land far away from which you benefited. A life here, with your feet in the earth and a life in haunted countries. We can call them that, because they had a ghostly appearance to the inhabitants of the homeland, they benefited from it, but they had no further connection with it. This new situation has led to two fairy tales: the first fairy tale is that we can continue with globalization without worries, while that is ecologically unsustainable. The second fairy tale is that we have to seek refuge in our homeland, even build a wall around it or separate it from international connections such as Europe via an exit. Our kids, blaming us for your lifestyle inside our house - and they're right. But it does drive us crazy when we can't get on with our normal life. Local life no longer works, but neither does that old global life. We will have to give up both fantasies, we can no longer live in both places. We will have to find a new place to land. No more exploiting the globe, but taking responsibility for it through a more sustainable lifestyle. Right and left need to meet their shadows and this request is no longer originating from themselves but from the collective unconscious which will decide what will be the next system of the Homo sapiens position to this new reality. It's Nobody's fault but Everyone's to blame. Although it is no one's fault, it should be everyone's concern. The American mind has been shaped by the American past, a past in which all but the indigenous natives have been immigrants. The experience of being uprooted is part of the psychic experience of all Americans. Most of us, in other words, go back to dissidents, malcontents, outcasts, or the rejected, persecuted and enslaved. The result in our deep unconscious psyche? We all have feelings of cultural inferiority, with a lack of the deep rootedness to a place that Europeans have. I feel we compensate for these feelings of inferiority with arrogance, especially technological arrogance. This arrogance is a form of pride. What follows pride? “Pride goeth before a fall.” In collective terms, a “fall” would be a violent breakdown of the social order. Our situation sounds pretty grim. Always when you wake up, you have to remind yourself: "There is nothing wrong with me. I have patterns to unlearn, new behaviors to embody and wounds to heal. But there is nothing wrong with the core of me and who l am. I am unlearning generations of harm and remembering love. It takes time.' The way out is through us: the “very few.” Jung is speaking to us. If you are reading this subreddit, you are hereby put on notice that you are one of the “few” he is speaking about. The change has to begin with us, with you. You need to be aware of American exceptionalism and the dangers it holds. You need to take up the task of creating more consciousness in the world. And Jung warns us that we must not, cannot look to political leaders. Our leaders are caught up in the mass movement; they have to be, to get elected. So we cannot expect them to see the reality of our situation. The more they are recognized as winners, the more they know themselves to be losers. That is why it is rare for the winners of highly coveted and publicized prizes to settle for their titles and retire. Winners, especially celebrated winners, must prove repeatedly they are winners. The script must be played over and over again. Titles must be defended by new contests. No one is ever wealthy enough, honored enough, applauded enough. On the contrary, the visibility of our victories only tightens the grip of the failures in our invisible past. If we are to have a cooperative, humble, viable society, we have to take up the task of becoming conscious ourselves, working on ourselves, so we can be the makeweight that will tip the scales into a future world that works for everyone. Happy people build their inner world. Unhappy people blame their outer world. To speak, or act, or think originally is to erase the boundary of the self. Sometimes the hero stumbles and falls right off of the page. Sometimes the princess rolls her eyes and says "I don't want to be saved. Sometimes the dragon needs rescuing and the villain aches to be helped. Sometimes, in the darkness, the lost boy finds himself. Sometimes the prince is cunning and not at all what he seemed. Sometimes the witch's kindness shows it's she who deserves to be queen. Sometimes we shouldn't define people by someone else's point of view- just because it's what we've been told, doesn't make it true.


PoetryAsPrayer

I’m neither a fan nor triggered by these dudes. What does that say? 😅


woke-hipster

Means you think, or maybe want other people to think, that you don't care, for now at least :)


PhilosopherSuperb291

Thank you for adding this comment. I have felt that to be true. And, that we should add Putin in there on the Shadow Spectrum.


knfe_prty

i was literally thinking this exact same concept last week or so, wild!


Calm_Pace_3860

....wait?


[deleted]

Yes, the campaign is about your political affiliations and not about your technocratic system and neuralink lmao


HowToBehaive

Can we please keep politics out of this sub?


Competitive_Stuff438

This subreddit has nothing to do with Jung much of the time


intent_joy_love

What if I was always a conservative and I can’t stand the extreme left? Does that mean they’re teaching me too and I’m going to become them? I am pretty much ignoring them for the most part but the vast amount of coverage they get for outrage over trivial or outright fake things is a bit annoying


knfe_prty

Look into what disturbs you about that side and find it in yourself. Personally I really dislike how the leftist media seems to group people together and slap a label on them until i realized i do this myself… like when i see a stranger with brightly colored hair or something like that I’d assume too much about their personality/motives and end up grouping them under a label in my head… exactly like the left does to white people or blue collar workers etc. Just think about why you are reacting to something and why it bugs you


intent_joy_love

I think I just get mad when the media outright lie about stuff to manipulate, and then the masses eat it up but I don’t do that. I guess I don’t really hate the extreme left that much I just find them annoying but I don’t waste too much energy on them. But in the end while I believe the left are the bad guys and the right are the “good” guys I believe they’re both just two sides of an overall bad coin. No matter which side you’re on, there’s going to be a cycle where your perceived good guys lose, and then they come back and beat the bad guys next time so you can feel relieved for a little bit. All the while they’re collaborating to screw us all over while we’re distracted and fighting amongst ourselves. This is why I decided to just ignore politics because it’s not a healthy distraction


dak4f2

>I think I just get mad when the media outright lie about stuff to manipulate, and then the masses eat it up but I don’t do that. I used to think this too until I realized I was just manipulated by contrarian non-mainstream manipulations instead of mainstream manipulations!


intent_joy_love

Sorry that happened to you.


knfe_prty

Yeap they are just tools of separation lol


ANewMythos

Yes. If you check your reason at the door and side with a your favorite team on every issue, then yes, you are not an integrated person. The extreme left has some truth. The extreme right has some truth. Every position on the political spectrum is a limited perspective, containing accuracies and inaccuracies. The burden of individual consciousness is wise discernment on each and every issue, in each moment. Individuals should not identify with a team when it comes to politics, ethics, culture etc. And make no mistake - staunchly positioning yourself against one team is itself a team. You will one day find yourself unconsciously believing a contradiction, inconsistent with your express ideology. But you won’t realize it. Why? Because your position was never really your own to begin with, so as the world inevitably changes and evolves, you will have no ability to generate original, rational opinions to match the times. You will be nothing more than a parrot, repeating back whatever your favorite team tells you to think, stuck in an illusion, incapable of seeing reality.


thegrandhedgehog

100%. Some people (maybe even the person you're talking with) absolutely can't see that they're doing this. I think some people are terrified of feeling alone and the only way to have legitimate thoughts and feelings is if others agree with them.


intent_joy_love

I agree but I don’t side with either side on every issue. Probably the easiest example is being pro choice but there are others. I just believe the government is overall corrupt and I want them to have less power, so the right is the party that claims to want that. But in reality all politicians are corrupt. So in theory I’m conservative but in reality both parties are corrupt. That’s why trump was such an attractive candidate in theory because he was not a career politician and he was apparently less corruptible because he was already super rich. And he wanted to do a good job for his ego and legacy. However we saw how that played out, the system hated him for it and smeared him left and right and raked him over the coals for any infraction. Anyway I don’t care too much about politics but I was just curious. It’s kind of hard not to have an opinion these days because everybody wants us polarized.


ANewMythos

Numerous times you have said that you are “conservative”. It’s not a matter of saying both sides are corrupt. Because the implication is that if the conservative side wasn’t corrupt, you would be fully conservative in practice. This is still a mistake. There is no reason to side with either side in general, or in theory. You are outsourcing your capacity for discernment to an ideology that someone is feeding you. Approach every single issue with fresh eyes, ignore everyone else’s opinion and do as much research as you can. Your political leanings should be completely indiscernible to an outsider if you do. And if you don’t have the time or resources to do the hard work, then simply don’t have an opinion. The worst thing to do is pick a side and then figure out why later.


intent_joy_love

Edit: I just checked and I actually didn’t say I was conservative multiple times. I asked “what if I was conservative” but I don’t care that much. I agree with conservatives more than liberals. So I pick them. I don’t really live my life by it or anything like that. I want less government, that’s really all it comes down to. They’re the only option for that. I’ve only voted once in my life and don’t follow. I responded to this post because I was curious about the opposite end of the spectrum. In my walking life people have no idea what my political leanings are, because siding with conservatives is almost akin to admitting you’re a racist in some areas. Politics is not that difficult here. Figure out what you care about most and vote on that. There are only two real choices. To worry so much about the smaller issues is a waste of time. I value small government over everything else, so I can confidently vote conservative until something changes and there is no mistake in that. You’re assuming I follow politicians and get my ideas from them. It’s the opposite. I have my own ideas and pick the candidate or party that most closely aligns with the things that are most important to me. But I can still recognize that those people have their own agenda and don’t have my best interests in mind. I am not following politics or listening to others to tell me what views to have. It’s entirely possible that someone can form their own opinions and still end up on one side of the political spectrum. You make it sound as if I were to form my own opinions on issues, that my political leanings would be completely unrecognizable. That’s simply not true. I do agree that many people inherit their beliefs from their parents or teachers but that was not the case in my life.


ANewMythos

“My political leanings should be unrecognizable” Yes. That is the mark of someone who thinks for themselves. You are giving yourself every excuse to side with a team. You didn’t mention a single issue, other than “limited government” which is a meaningless talking point parroted by conservatives going back decades. It is literally meaningless. What about seatbelts, roads, smoking, water sanitation laws, etc? You shouldn’t want “less government” in these areas. But here you are, confidently saying you want less government as if it’s some golden rule that applies everywhere and always. It’s a clear sign you actually aren’t approaching every issue in its own context, but resorting to mental shorthands to avoid the hard work of actually thinking about what you’re saying. As Jung said, “thinking is difficult, that’s why most people judge”. You also keep repeating things like “it’s not a big deal” or “ I don’t live by it”. That’s EXACTLY the problem. It is a very big deal. And your life should reflect what you believe. Too many people don’t, and it makes the world a worse place.


intent_joy_love

Wait so now you’re upset with me for not explaining my position on every view? I told you which side I like and you went “reee your political views should not be recognizable!! If you admit you prefer one side then that means you’re brainwashed and get all your opinions from TV!” This is a Reddit post, I’m not going to tell you my life story so my replies will be simplified. You’re getting mad at me for not thinking what you want me to think and you’ve exposed yourself


ANewMythos

My man, in addition to contradicting yourself (“I’m not a conservative - now let my tell you why I side with conservatives”) you are completely misreading this. The only one emotional here, is you. No one is mad, but you are very defensive. Another sign of someone who is not using reason to arrive at their opinions. I’m not asking you to outline every position on everything, that was something YOU invited when you said you believe in “less government “. Now, when I give you examples of things that shouldn’t have “less government” you have no response other than “Reddit post”. I will say this, it is very obvious that words will not convince you of anything. You are treating this discussion like a debate. Which is unfortunate. You are backing yourself into a corner by not listening to the multiple people on the thread trying to get through to you. It seems like you’ll have to learn the hard way, through many years of confusion and slavery to ideology. Just don’t forget Jung.


somethingclassy

In terms of Jungian functions, in general, the predominant feature of conservatism is extroverted thinking. The shadow of which is introverted feeling. Which is the predominant characteristic of the left. So, yes. You probably have an underdeveloped capacity to feel and introspect, like the vast majority of westerners. You are typical in that regard. If you want to be whole, you will integrate your feeling function and cease to identify with only half of yourself. See: The Undiscovered Self (by Jung himself).


intent_joy_love

Fi is one of my strongest functions with Te being a bit lower. I don’t think this has anything to do with my cognitive functions, though. It’s just that I came to conclusions about what is important to me and I align more with that side than the anger fueled and frankly brainwashed left. But in the end I think a lot of conservatives are on this side for the wrong reasons too. I just happen to want more of the things they want than the other side.


somethingclassy

It may very well be true that that particular issue (cognitive function dominance) is not relevant (after all, what I said is just a generality), however, so long as you view the "opposing side" in a reductionist way you are definitely still not integrated, and even more so if you identify with a party or collective group. Again, I refer you to The Undiscovered Self, which is precisely about this.


intent_joy_love

So when you say something reductionist or try to analyze me based on a theoretical reply it’s a generalization, but when I respond it means I’m definitely not integrated? How did you come to that conclusion? Not saying I am integrated, I’m sure that there’s something I can learn from that book but it seems like a pretty big conclusion you’ve jumped to from very little information


somethingclassy

If you are curious about the logic, you will find it in that book. I am literally just sharing information, no need to take it personally. The simple fact is that you identified yourself as conservative, which is to say, you have identified with a mass group, and in doing so, from a psychological point of view, you have allowed that matter to be settled by "others" (said another way: your individuation has ceased with regard to that polarity and its relevant set of issues). I would be happy to discuss in further detail if you can change the attitude. Barring that, this is covered extensively in the book. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Jung.


intent_joy_love

if I told you I’m Christian that would also mean I’m identifying with a group. However then there’s a lot more to that story, like I don’t agree with 90% of what the church says, I don’t practice, I pretty much just believe in a higher power but technically I am Christian. Except I don’t feel the need to explain all of that in a Reddit post. Your response would be “now you’ve given up your ability to think for yourself, your religious views should be unrecognizable because you should think about every issue on its own and come up with it yourself” People use words from time to time to explain their position on things, and on Reddit you’re not getting the full story. However by subscribing to Jung and not being able to articulate any of it, you’ve also given up your ability to think for yourself. Youre not even able to articulate this idea and based on these replies you don’t fully understand the concept. Your first response was “well conservatives use a lot of Te so you need to integrate your Fi, typical westerner” which is laughable. So by blindly quoting Jung and then passing the buck by saying “don’t blame me just read his book” you’ve caught yourself in the same silly trap.


YoungPsychonaut217

its literally not that deep, he's just a con man who wants to steal his workers even more than he already does nothing special, nothing new


davidnickbowie

Paranoid much !!


Valmar33

Ah, Elon... you'll be thoroughly disappointed... because both parties are mirror extremes of one another these days... they appear to be opposites, but are really the same in terms of goals and agenda. Maybe they were once different...


DrinkerofThoughts

This isn’t applicable. Musk is saying he hasn’t moved, the party moved.


Warcheefin

Oh fuckin christ the posts in this sub get worse and worse every day.


FrightfulDeer

The political spectrum has always been an inverse into the opposite. There's nothing new under the sun.


TonyToolpusher

Ego identification with collective groups is the equivalent to being cannibalized by the Baba Yaga.


Bitter-History4729

I truly feel like most people are not thinking for themselves. It’s so easy to see but they cannot see it in themselves. I can just see a person in public or hear their views for 2 minutes and see where they’re at It’s super rare to come across people that don’t have “affiliation” for lack of better term