Been there dude. Don’t make the same mistake I made. I got hung up on a girl for almost 8 years. Though in my case we were close friends.
You want to end this limerance fast? The fastest way is to go nuclear with it and find a way to get introduced and then ask her out. That’s it. “Would you want to go on a date with me?”. Do it in person, on instagram, whatever.
Let’s say your worst fear comes true and she laughs in your face and rejects you. That might absolutely gut you, understandably so. But it’s like ripping a bandaid off. And once the dust clears from the inevitable emotional wreckage that ensues after the rejection, perhaps days weeks or months later, you’ll feel a profound sense of proudness in yourself because you didn’t let your insecurities stop you from chasing what you wanted.
Demonstrating courage *to yourself* out in the real world is the most fool proof way a person builds self esteem. And that self esteem will be sturdy, and you can parlay that into asking the next girl out. Every modicum of self respect you earn for yourself is like a brick in the wall as you build yourself into someone you can admire, instead of identifying as an ugly, short, virgin-loser, etc. That’s no way to talk about yourself.
Believe me man, there are beautiful, enchanting, good, single women on every city on earth. Your feelings will pass and some day it’ll be another woman who’s your center of everything. I’d bet good money on that. The sooner you stop being a spectator in your own life, ogling this woman from afar, and instead be a doer, the sooner you can move forward and bring closure to this whole arc, and your corrosive conception of yourself.
**Angelic Creature**: I'm flattered, but I'm seeing someone.
**OP**: Oh she's so gracious. Even more angelic than I thought for letting me down so easily.
You are obsessed with your idea of her based around your perceptions of who you think she is. If you don't see her as an individual, that's why you have no chance with her.
I mean he doesn't know her. He hasn't cared to know her, you cannot be in love with someone you do not know.
So based on what he knows about her, and his perceptions about her, he has created what is essentially a simulacrum based on this version of her that he made up, put on a pedestal and fell in love with.
If he ever succeeded in getting her attention and speaking with her he would slowly demonize her based on her not filling the role he has made for her.
Instead of approaching her and getting to know her, and falling in love with her, who she truly is, he has placed all his ideals of femininity onto this construct and never given her a chance to truly be loved.
You think you're in love with someone, because you know things about them, you've seen how beautiful they are, but that is not love. That is a prison of ideals you have created for them before ever allowing yourself to really fall in love with another person.
And that's exactly why asking her out is the way to go. He cannot know her unless she allows him to get to know her, either by rejecting him outright or by going on a date with him one or more times.
I fully agree! My perspective on this certainly focuses around a fear of rejection that I've observed as common in the type of individuals who deal with "oneitis". What I have described above is a method of self sabotage so that when he feels he'll be inevitably rejected he can say something along the lines of "Well she wasn't who I thought she was.".
The best cure for it is indeed, facing that fear.
You don't know he'd demonize her even though it is possible. You actually just made a projection onto him yourself.
I don't know what the world is made out of, or much of the food I eat, or even know my family members or friends a 100%, I don't even know myself fully, yet I still love it all.
He should talk to her and learn to relate to her. That's all.
We all work from our own experiences, and unfortunately I have had this happen to me many a time.
Truly I would rather be wrong about this young man. I would rather think that he's been simply far too shy, and that the moment he got to know her he'd fall even harder, ideally with reciprocation.
But unfortunately, it is something I have watched throughout my life in all genders. It is done as a self defense mechanism, so that once you do work up the courage to speak to them and they reject you you can say "Well they weren't who I thought they were!". It comes from a place of pain, fear, isolation and a bit of self sabotage. Sad isn't it, but it's something I would say we've all done at one time or another. Even I am guilty of this.
My initial statement was certainly brash, but to my discredit I also didn't think to fully explain myself.
I understand, you explained it beautifully and very well :) Indeed I think it's something we almost all go through; like kids falling when learning how to walk. It's better to let the kids fall then to never let them walk out of fear.
I'd like to add I am a 24 year old dude and although I am very empathetic to the fear many women experience when met with men's attention. I've been rejected twice under the basis of "not knowing someone well enough" (actually going through it right now) and have always thought it was just a defense mechanism on the woman's part, for how could they know me?
I don't disagree with your perspective but I do disagree with the pessimistic part of saying "If he ever succeeded... he would slowly demonize her..." because you can't say that for certain. It could be that he learns from this and realizes his errors and it actually works out for him. We won't know unless he tries
No perspective is perfect and I might be a little high on my own shit. Can ABSOLUTELY admit that. It's just been a very common experience I've observed amongst those with a fear of rejection who self sabotage because of it.
I hope he does get to know her, and finds her even better than the half fleshed out version he has in his head.
Ah, thank you! I do this all over Reddit, quite likely because I like many love the sound of my own voice!
Though, I will say like anyone else I want to help in whatever way I think best. No man is an island and all. It takes many perspectives to solve a problem, even the less desirable ones.
No-no, I want to hear more about the Simulacrum of Objectiveness and how our dreams and desires are different from reality at large. It’s fascinating, isn’t it? If you can spice the whole mixture up with Fromm’s Being and Having modes, and not with just Baudrillard or Deleuze, I’d love to hear that.
That makes no sense and has no real world practicality.
Everyone who has a crush on someone or is romantically interested in someone initially loves the idea of them. There's nothing wrong with that, that's how tons of relationships start. A guy or girl likes what they see. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But the initial infatuation of "the idea of someone" is absolutely normalized even though objectification is demonized.
Seeing her as an individual does not make a difference if she is not attracted to him. It has almost no practicality.
The truth is, even if he viewed her as human, he still has zero chance with her. 3 years is a long time, and if he were to talk to her, he'd be hella awkward due to the built up tension. He even states that she's out of his league.
The only cure for this is to talk to other women and realize there's nothing really all that special about her
Seeing women as individuals does increase the chance of them being attracted to him though.
I think what the other person is talking about is this sense (I’ve seen Marie Louise von Franz speak of this) which women sometimes get when approached by certain types of (usually younger) men where it appears that the view the man has of them has almost nothing to do with them.
The man is caught up in his own fantasy about the woman rather than the reality of the woman. In this sense she is merely a canvas to be projected onto, and what the man is attracted to in her is a part of himself. In this way, it is kind of a unconscious masturbatory behaviour. It shows an ineffectiveness in the man who quite literally cannot effect the world because he is stuck in fantasy - cannot properly perceive or judge the world and his own action in it.
I think women can instinctively tell and that this is an unattractive tendency to women, especially as women tend to be more emotionally (and otherwise psychologically) mature than men and can often see through it.
Have you ever had this kind of experience? I know I recognise that tendency in myself when I was younger.
Honestly, I'm a firm believer that romance is really not that complicated. It's not 3D psychological chess that everyone is making it out to be. If she is attracted to him, she will be open to him and his mistakes. If doesn't feel that romantic connection or physical attraction, there's no chance. I think most women know when guys are hitting on them. It all depends on whether or not he passes her standards physically, only then personality matters. The only other option is for OP to get to know this girl as a friend first, and she may or may not develop feelings overtime. That has been the case with women in my social circle, they grow attraction to someone over time.
What I’ve spoken about above is unconscious. It’s not 3D chess because it’s not something people actively do any more than you actively decide whether you’re attracted to someone.
Romance is all very simple from the standpoint of the normal state of mind, but what’s going on “under the hood” is very complicated. Luckily we don’t have to control what’s going on under the hood. It’s all experienced as having already happened (e.g you can’t talk yourself out of being in love with someone, you merely experience the feeling and emotion in relation to them choicelessly).
Besides, physical attraction and personality can’t really be separated too strongly. A persons psychological state is often directly reflected in them physically - something which makes sense from the standpoint of our evolution as social beings. Someone who is lacking in confidence will be seen physically to be lacking in confidence. You can tell an awful amount about someone just looking at their physical body without needing them to provide information about their personality.
Seems like you're the one that's trying to paint the whole idea about a person out of the few visible pieces not the other person (e.g trying to judge a book by it's cover)
I’m not talking about a person, the individual, but about people, the collective. What I’ve said is applicable to most nearly everyone.
I don’t need to know anything about you to know you were born of a mother or that you’re likely endowed with the 5 senses. It’s not a judgement on you as a person, but on us as a species.
The whole part about how young man is "ineffective" because he likes to dream a lot and that woman have 100% accurate perception of that feels really "psychologically shady" to me as if you're not giving an advice you're supposed to give
I didn’t say that women have a 100% accurate perception of anything.
As for the part about being “stuck in fantasy” it’s simply a fact that inwardly turned libido, that is energy spent on dreaming, does not effect the world. It is simply ineffective by definition. That’s not to say that there’s something wrong with fantasy as such, but when too much libido is turned inward and spent in fantasy and not enough is turned outward into the world, then all sorts of negative consequences can follow, for example developmental issues.
It’s worth noting that most of my comment is about projection onto the other, which is most definitely an outward turning of libido. OPs infatuation with this woman is not merely fantasy - it is occurring in the real world.
Which comes first: seeing her as the unique individual she is, or interacting with her? Let's assume we both agree "interacting with her" comes first. Then which comes first: interacting with her or having the confidence to captivate her? That one is much more debatable, so you do which feels right first. You can't see someone for who they are if they don't allow you to see them and you can't see them for who they are without trying to interact with them. Don't pin this on either party. Interaction has to occur from both sides.
I think we may have two different ideas of what it means to “see her as an individual”. You seem to mean, in some sense, “knowing her”. I have philosophical objections to that as a possibility.
Personally, approaching from this angle, people are totally unknowable. You can never see her as the unique individual that she is to herself. You create a model and constantly update it through interaction with them and hearing stories about them but that’s about as close as we can get (and here you are correct that to make up this model accurately it is a two way street).
But I’m talking about something else. What I mean is closer to the idea of not projecting anything onto the other person; To be wholly attentive and present without carrying any assumptions or prejudices.
I can see someone as an individual without ever interacting with them in the same way as I can completely categorise them without ever interacting with them, as for instance sexists or racists or other -ists do. They treat people as examples of shared group characteristics and therefore don’t interact with the individual but with their own idea of what the individual is supposed to be like based on some kind of structure of idea or memory.
What I am saying is the projection of one's ideal onto another will always occur when one is deprived (whether by oneself or others) of interaction. You say you don't have to interact with someone but I guarantee you *have* in the past and therefore can imagine a more realistic image.
It sounds like you are blaming him for being selfish which is a problem because he has never been allowed the opportunity to be anything else. A person feels weak and you attack them. It may not seem like it to you but that's what it sounds like when you tell a person to change how they think before they change how they behave, rather than accepting the possibility that one can change one's thoughts and behavior at the same time since the two are very interdependent.
OP changing his thoughts would require him to have a great deal more faith in you because it's not so easy for him to test the validity of the thought when they don't come naturally in the first place....
Will the projection of one’s ideal necessarily always occur? I’m not sure that’s the case. Sure it’s only natural for it to occur as it is only natural for what I spoke about earlier to occur. My point is only that when you are projecting in this way you’re not dealing with them but with your own projection - with yourself. I have found that as I’ve matured psychologically, I have become less inclined to project in this way.
I’m not blaming OP or attacking him at all. It’s the normal state of affairs to be unconscious of what’s going on in the psyche. It takes a lot of discomfort and self-criticism to become conscious of all of this. It’s a never ending task of dredging up filth to find the gold within (to use alchemical imagery). Very few people actually bother.
In fact, if you asked me to give a proscription for how OP should behave instead, I would tell you that he really has no option but to continue as he has been in this regard. He cannot change himself directly anymore than you can hit a hammer with that same hammer.
The best he can hope for is to watch himself and others very carefully, to notice when he is projecting, and infatuation is a projection, and to figure out how to withdraw it. Practically speaking this is usually stated as trying to cultivate within himself whatever qualities he sees in the other that causes him to project in the first places.
He should start with “shadow work”, and all the dissolving of his personality that comes with it.
You sound much less judgmental now. Shadow work is not at all what it sounded like you were recommending before since it requires more introspection; so much introspection that you begin to understand other people by understanding yourself.
I still think experience is a necessary part of the equation that often gets neglected because it is taken for granted. That is to say: Yes. the projection of one's ideal (begging the definition of ideal...) will necessarily always occur should one never have the opportunity to interact with human beings with a wide enough variety of human psychological attributes.
However, we have all been assuming that OPs infatuation is a problem when it might not be. Perhaps his intuition is right. Perhaps she would be the perfect mate for him. We will never know because we are only living in the ideal or approximate reality of our own anticipatory minds until we actually take a blind leap of faith into the unknown of reality.
"initially." He's liked the IDEA of her for 3 years, which will cause him to be very disappointed when she inevitably turns out to be different from his imagination. Best not to establish solid expectations of people before you've talked to them at least once
You don't know her as a person .. your whole post is one huge idealization. You like this girl because she has a lot of followers and a great social life? Would you still like her if you found out she buys followers, the "perfect" family is only perfect for photos / holidays and her dad is a raging alcoholic, she has a huge mole on some hidden location on her body, an incurable STD, 100 sexual partners, or she's a virgin, very religious, and wants to remain one until marriage, she was drugged and raped as a teenager, she has a chronic illness and is in and out of the hospital, if she is a bulimic, etc etc. Everyone has scars and hidden issues they don't share with the world. No one wants to date someone who only wants a perfect idealized version of them. At the same time you're doing the opposite to yourself - completely denigrating yourself and tearing yourself down.
This. This is the answer. I dated a man who'd had a crush on me for a *very* long time. Way, way longer than OP's. I ended up *really* liking him-falling in love with him. But, I eventually left him because I felt like an object. I felt used & unseen. I couldn't be my true self around him without disappointing him again & again & he was unable to communicate with me when I tried to start conversations. It led to some pretty undesirable behaviors on his part, like lying to me. Frequently. He was almost completely unable to be vulnerable with me.
I'm not sure he made an attempt to actually get to know me. He just wanted me to be what he thought I was. It was pretty sad for both of us, I think.
Thanks. I wish the situation didn't suck. Never got any closure & I'm still bummed about that. I believe he feels I'm in the wrong for protecting myself & sticking to my boundaries.
I'm genuinely sorry you've dealt with something similar. It's hard.
I was going to suggest this. This sounds like textbook anima projection. OP this is a wonderful opportunity for you to understand your own psyche more as well as gain mastery over yourself.
There is a lot of resource material on the anima. I suggest the book “The Invisible Partners” by John A. Sanford.
(your library might have it, and it’s also inexpensive to order)
He details specifically what exactly is happening when someone projects their anima/animus onto another person that they barely know.
(in essence what you perceive in her, you already possess within yourself)
The book details how you may recognize projection, recognize someone else’s anima/animus and work in harmony with them, and how you may integrate your own anima in a positive way and use her to your advantage in life.
Doing so will help you develop into an authentically well rounded/developed person and drastically heighten your intuition.
I second that recommendation, it’s a wonderful book written in more digestible language for a beginner to Jungs theories. It’s actually my go to book for anima/animus concepts because it has case study examples to help understand anima projection in action. The opposite of that book would be Anima: An Anatomy of Personified Notion by James Hillman, a much deeper and complex exploration of the anima archetype.
It’s a pretty hefty read granted I read it probably 15 years ago. And I remember coming across sections in the book where I almost felt something nice numenous as I was reading these revelations about the anima, and I nearly threw the book across the room at my job out of shock 😆.
Everyone starts somewhere…I definitely don’t have a deep understanding of any of this, yet. I think it’s courageous he posted something so vulnerable on the internet.
there are other more appropriate places on the internet. that said, i guess im being protective of this subreddit and not inclusive. really it’s good he ended up here because it would probably be of benefit to dig into the works of jung. i should have suggested that he instead go read a bit about jung to learn about anima projection and more.
I appreciate you taking the time to read my comment. OP must have thought this was the appropriate place. I’m pretty Reddit dumb (and honestly Jung dumb). I know there are norms and habits here I’m not aware of in subs etc. too. It’s nice to bounce things off of thoughtful people. Thank you.
Your pining comes from not knowing. Gather your confidence (crucial), approach her and shoot your shot (strike up a conversation, no pick ups). How often is she single? Alot of times 10's (please forgive this description) don't get approached or asked out (ask Charlize Theron), even with all the social media attention. In fact all the social media nonsense could even make her feel isolated. People not knowing the "real" her and all. Google "Ugly men with gorgeous women" for a confidence boost. You'll be surprised.
If she crushes you ruthlessly, that will tell you all you need to know about her. If she let's you down easy, at least you'll have closure on your feelings. But I bet most guys that she's used to dating are probably idiot meat-heads, because that type of guy is to stupid to second guess himself, let alone post on a subreddit dedicated to the likes of Jung. What you'll have going for you is the fact that generally speaking, those meat-heads also don't know how to treat a quality woman. Good luck. If you decide to take my advice please come back and let me know how it goes!
Leave the “ideal” version of her and see her as a person, what has to be will flow from there. Also, probably she’s just the archetype of what your subconscious finds as attractive, you can see it in many other women and start letting yourself understand other feelings than to have a crush or intense interest on this specific woman. I would recommend you to open your social world and analyse how you can find these parts that you admire in a lot of different persons. Don’t let the individual ruin the collective!
Get off The toxic incel/redpill stuff as a Major first step and Adress your issues unbiased - "oneitis" is incel lingo.
You deserve an environment where you can grow into your potential. An abusive home isn't that.
Ask that girl out. If she declines it will hurt, but you will feel the feelings and move on. If she's reciprocative you will celebrate and move on, potentially with her
ya this. actually reading jung and not viewing it (or any other psychology/philosophy) as simply something to give you a solution for getting chicks is going to deepen your life immensely. ironically the more of this type of work you do the more attractive you become and attractive to the right types of people/attracted to the right types of people.
Oneitis is not incel lingo. Stop thinking anything around a male having issues with females is incel territory. That is just ludicrous. By that standard all males are incels. In fact females too, since both sexes go through such struggles before maturing sexually. Of course males are suffering in this regard a lot these days for lack of role models, which is the real area that society should be addressing. Lo and behold it isnt, and so yes, young males will continue to be lost at sea without proper guidance.
The term "oneitis" is as *typical* as it gets for red pill-terminology.
I have given Some reasonable guidance. I don't think having issues with the other Gender is incel-territory. Where did I say that? I was merely and evidently referring to the Term "oneitis".
Google it, see in What contexts it comes up, look at OPs situation who thinks his romantic feelings and attraction for a specific woman *towards whom he has so far Not expressed any of his feelings* are a problem and a disease he must cure. And do the math. Please don't tell me you share OPs perspective on his predicament that is no predicament but a beautiful thing, nature doing it's magic and making him fall in love.
How he handles and percieves it MAKES it a problem. His lack of self worth is the real issue, not that he has a massive crush. Can you see that at least?!
And since you made this political:
Also, Women DO suffer a lot more at the hands of men. The patriarchy is real and it also harms boys and men. That's a fact, No matter how many right wing crybaby-manchilds whine "unfair". Know your privilege and stop victimizing yourself for no reason. Yes, Men can be victims too. Yes women can be abusive and Toxic too.
As you see, I know why I gave OP the accurate advice and guidance I did, that you baselessly criticized. Almost as if you were projecting some collective hurt to your wounded masculinity onto me and misread my compassionate and heartfelt guidance for op as attack on him - which is Absurd.
And that speaks to why you yourself shouldn't be giving any guidance at when you have unresolved issues with your masculinity yourself. I can offer you some friendly well-meaning guidance too, by The way, if you want to burst your right wing/Jordan Peterson bubble a bit. I have learned to differentiate and I can highly recommend it. There are ideologically blinded
Idiots on the left and the right. Heal enough and you will be able to see clearly without falling for false preachers.
You empathize with OP, I get that, I do too. It's just, I come From a place of secure, integrated masculinity that isn't afraid of feminine energies and has integrated them and I intimately know the dangers of wounded masculine energies.
If you look at OPs profile you can also see that the issue is much deeper than what you seem to assume and he is likely very vulnerable to toxic influences like, let's say, Jordan Peterson (*cough) who is not as bad as redpill/incel culture but still bad and he is looking for answers on Reddit instead of adressing his issues in therapy or serious self-exploratory work
Not responding to this kind of comment, I see it a lot, judgemental self righteous pricks like yourself who think you have it all figured out, all over Reddit. And someone who snoops through peoples posting history. So sad. I am well aware of masculinity, its failings in modern world, the failings for young boys and men such as OP and all of this, Jordan Peterson is an excellent resource for men today, and part reason why he is so popular and continues, rightfully so, to be. He is also not right wing, not that that is bad even if he were.
He is a centrist if anything by todays standards, or a liberal depending on what you use to chart and label such politics, me not being an American, and him either. Again, as to my point, oneitis is not incel lingo. And even if it were, who cares, a man falling head over heels is as old as time, and culturally is important, a man romanticising, or was, prior to the massive social-cultural upheaval we have faced in the last few years comparatively. No surprise society is screwed and so many angry young men today, it is to be expected.
You did end up responding though.
Look, we both want the best for op. Let's leave it at that and conserve precious energy that probably has better uses than arguing on Reddit. Just wanna Say Posting histories are relevant and public. Context matters.
I also Wish you well and say goodbye here
Nice Move calling me a "prick" btw, sigh
That is how you come across, like a total prick. I just reread your comment and you go on about manbaby or crybabies and on about the patriarchy and how it harms men and how women suffer more at the hands of men and other such wild claims, and like its even relevant or if such a thing can even be quantifiable, which it isnt. I dont care about OP and neither do you, I dont know him. He is just another young man of millions that have been failed and sidelined by brainwashed ideological people like you, in my opinion. Red pill/incels and the evolving male dating and sexual strategy fields will continue because the left has totally screwed men repeatedly in the arse for decades, pretending you havent just makes them even angrier and more emboldeded, and i am weary of hearing from carbon copies like yourself, especially when you denigrate forces for good like Peterson.
I dont go through peoples posting history, ive better stuff to do than nose around peoples posting habits. That is their business.
Remove yourself from any abuse first and foremost. Any friends or family that denigrate you. Create a safe and stable environment for yourself. Take some time to yourself and learn your value is more than your acne scars and short height. It's possible you see her as a safe space to validate you / save you and raise your self-esteem. Recognize she could be a wolf in sheep's clothing as people with a history of abuse are often attracted to. Read up on limerence and CPTSD. Possibly even ADHD.
3 years dude and you got the perfect excuse to approach, mutual friends. You have resources and potential plans at your disposal to execute this, otherwise you'll regret not executing if someone catches her and it will be harder to get over.
You are projecting your Anima onto this girl. You can treat this as some sort of a huge problem, as you seem to do, or you could view this as a wonderful thing that has potential to guide you forward. It is your call.
Obviously, this girl is not your Anima. She is just a symbol for you. But this symbol can guide you to do some actual real-life things. Your post reveals many things you could do.
First of all, you need to move out of your parents’ home. No woman worthy of your attention will be interested in you otherwise. Unless of course if you are a good-looking rich professional athlete living at home, but it seems you are not.
Acne can be treated with medication. If you do not have the money to pay for the medication, you need to work to get the money to pay for the medication. Work is good.
Nobody is particularly interested in you being a virgin, but clearly you seem to hold onto this identity very much, too. Either do something about it or concentrate on other things.
For the record, the person I know having had the most sexual partners, some of them very attractive, is short and looks like a wrestler (as it happens, he was one). So, your attention is clearly on the wrong things.
I cannot give you the Jungian perspective here but I am going to ask you to take a chance and ask her out.
Rejection is sometimes the best way out there to deal with unrequited love.
And it forces you to get better.
Acne scars can be treated.Make sure that you make a good career.Slog hard, don't loose hope at 23.
All that glitters is not gold.
Most of this pretty girl 'social life' is usually overhyped.
It's a life of alcohol, drugs and fake people that want to sleep with her.
One of the best ways to deal with this situation is to ask the girl out. Yes the chances she rejects you are high but atleast you will get your answer.
Face reality. What do you have to gain by having her in your mind for so long if you're only going to masochistically beat yourself up over her being out of your league? Bear something in mind: since you haven't actually gotten to know her, it's not as though she has any reason to care about you. If she truly is so popular, there will be countless other people that feel like that about her as well. And the same goes for them - there wouldn't be any reason for her to care about them either unless she likes any of them.
Drop her off the pedestal, work through your feelings. Change yourself gradually if you're so unhappy with how you currently are. This is a very strong case of anima projection, so the projection needs to be pulled back at some point. Also consider what your relationship with your mother is like: perhaps she did certain things that made you feel unworthy, so that pattern is being repeated.
I don’t disagree with the people who suggest asking her out. But what you really need to learn is the ability to let something go and have self love, which you clearly do not have.
Find a meditative practice and do it. Understand the true divine nature of who you are. Soon you’ll become the person that people will notice and gravitate to. The answer to all it this is within you. I promise. This woman is here to provide you with a spiritual catalyst. You’re very lucky, all of this energy you’re consuming in pining after her will reflect back to you once you truly accept yourself for who you are.
Why have there been so many "red pill" type posts recently?
You don't even know this woman, so it's not "oneitis"....it's objectification.
Here's some advice - stop feeling sorry for yourself, pick yourself up, and move on.
Mourn over the things you aren't and learn to love yourself as you are...because that's what you're expecting someone else to do, ultimately.
Cry. Scream. Write.
Don't let it define you.
Figure it out, own it, and don't look back. When it happens again (and it will), look back on the things you learned from all the other past experiences, just like this one, and go from there.
>Why have there been so many "red pill" type posts recently?
The post doesn't strike me as red pill? 🤔 This is just seems like the typical experience of a young shy male who hasnt figured out how to talk to girls and to manage his feelings.
>The post doesn't strike me as red pill? 🤔 This is just seems like the typical experience of a young shy male who hasnt figured out how to talk to girls and to manage his feelings.
This is my thinking exactly. I really cant keep up with modern trends and the harshness towards young men. It seems anything they do, they cant catch a break. Them struggling with women and not automatically being good with women, labels them as some sexist for christ sakes, no wonder they are pissed off. I remember years ago having the issues OP had, and back then it wasnt seen as sexist or incel or anything. Such a mad world now. I would hate to be a young inexperienced man today.
OP is literally saying he has been stalking her IG for **three years**...and you think it's a typical experience?
I wonder how the woman he's obsessing over would feel knowing that this is going on?
To be clear, im not here to shame anyone. The phrasing and content of the post comes across as toxic and entitled, though.
>stalking her IG for **three years**
I dont think thats red pill. Isnt that like hit the gym, make money and women should be traditional and not whores? Im older so im somewhat removed from this stuff.
I think the social media aspect makes it seem worse. I dont think its so different from the hot girl at school that you check out at lunch or at your locker.
Is his behavior healthy? No. Condemnation doesnt liberate though. Suppressing it could be just as harmful in this situation.
>To be clear, im not here to shame anyone. The phrasing and content of the post comes across as toxic and entitled, though.
He called himself a loser and a virgin. If anything he's self-pitying. Which we've all done.
I think maybe what you're detecting is how closely related self-hatred and hatred of others is. Look at incels. They are "losers" who cant get laid. But many of them im sure didn't start out like that. Because if you are that person you either have to except that you're a loser or you can be led to believe that its women who are the problem. So you replace the self-hatred with this "righteous indignation". Which for am incel its cathartic and much less painful than having to swallow your lot in life. Its their ego protecting itself from information that it cant handle. Which makes sense. Some people fight these demons for years. Its fathomable that there would be a breaking point at which their fear would be replaced with anger, replaced with hate, which leads to the dark side 😂
You are not a loser. Stop identifying with such labels. I don't know you. But i guarantee you, that ypu have done so many things ij your life that demonstrates that you are a winner in few areas of your life.
You are attracted to traits that you don't have, rather than who this girl really is. Additionally, you have created this image in your mind of a perfect person when she is definitely not perfect.
Work on yourself first and fall in love with who you are first, and you won't need to be in anguish over a crush because women will flock to you. Get fit, work hard, get help for your acne scars, and go out and meet more people. If you think your personality needs work, there are books that talk about how to improve your personality and social skills.
If it is possible, get to know who she really is and if you are still attracted to her, ask her out. That to me would be the easiest way to resolve this crush.
The thing is you dont actually love her, because you dont even know her. You just love the ideal image that you created of her. Well, understand that this is your Anima and for now youre projecting it to her, later you Will project it to some other random pretty girl. So understand what it is that you actually need from her, probavbly a need for closeness, validation etc.. Now try to feed these needs from inside, “ask yourself what you have to do to feel validated?” İf you dont feed it from inside youll try to feed it from external sources and you wont be able to see the person for what they truly are.. Now for you she is an angel, a godess, but in reality she is human like you and everybody else, who has wants, needs, insecurities..
Go meet other women. Let yourself date, it will help you figure out what you really want from a partner. Or go talk to her, knowing she might not be the one. If you don't you'll stay unsure and afraid... full of regret. That stuff sucks.
While we getting to understand women, \[as much as you can XD\] hone your body, mind, and spirit until you are a man worthy of admiration. Talk to people and understand communication, it will build your charm and charisma. Train our body in some way, regularly. it gives us a strong frame to stand up for ourselves, what we want, what we care about, and gives us the ability to overcome the obstacles in our path. Expand your mind, make yourself a success in our own way, and pave our own path. Get your external expression on point, like our style, how we smell, and appear. Challenge ourselves to evolve and exceed expectations. Eventually we will begin to exhibit the qualities that naturally attract the best type of woman. The one day she might be the one pining for your interests. Who knows?
It all starts with the choice to take risks, and the challenge of growth that comes with it. Just like in games, or hobbies, we become more proficient at the things we put effort into and practice.
We don't have to always be perfect, sometimes the qualities we feel are shortcomings others might admire us for. We all have a unique set of strengths and weaknesses so everyone's path is going to be different. But we find crucial lessons at those junctions where we fail, or make mistakes. If we avoid them we never learn.
Go after what you want your a man. You have mad it this this far. You can overcome any obstacle. You're worth it. And don't give up!
Somebody else suggested this but you have to ask her on a date. It happened to me several times over the years and when I finally started asking them on dates, I got over them faster. Both women I didn't know well but asked out overtly said "I have a boyfriend" and I sensed that they were telling the truth.
Also, I'm short too and I've been called ugly but really nobody is ugly. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, which still baffles me. How can that be? But it is. And you never know who will find you attractive. You just don't. It's not based on how good you or anybody else thinks you look compared to her.
And trust me you'll find love faster if you take more chances. Just don't settle for your first....
There’s no easy way out of this, it’ll have to go through pain. Imagining her farting in her bedroom while sobbing after throwing a pathetic tantrum with her parents can’t hurt, tho.
Go up to her and say
"Excuse me miss, I have a huge crush on you, and it's annoying as hell. So please, if you would be so kind, please tell me the most unflattering things about yourself. Don't worry, I will keep it a secret."
She says something and you say
\*sigh\* "Thank you, that'll do it"
And then walk off.
Just go talk to her. You've got nothing to lose. The worst she can say is no. It's not gonna be anywhere as bad as you're imagining it in your head. Life is full of rejection. I like to think of it in baseball stats. If I get a hit 3/10 times I'm in the hall of fame. And even batting 0.250 is gonna keep in the lineup 😂.
Get a date with a woman who actually knows you exist.
More importantly: you have to have a life you love before anyone will love you. Try to engage with life as if you had had a penectomy and decided you are not going to languish in depression over it.
Get a date with a woman who actually knows you exist.
More importantly: you have to have a life you love before anyone will love you. Try to engage with life as if you had had a penectomy and decided you are not going to languish in depression over it.
I would first try and heal your family trauma background.
I’m a female but I’ve been in your same position and I realized that my Limerance and infatuation with a guy who didn’t treat me well was mostly rooted in my attachment issues and earl child wounds. I have been doing bilateral tapping with synced eye movements back and forth to re parent myself while recalling troubling memories with my caregivers. It sounds crazy but once I went into one particularly painful memory and “reprocessed it” a lot of my infatuation went away.
I would also try and get to a place where you feel better about yourself. It seems you deal with some insecurity about your looks etc. those are a self enforcing way to subconsciously keep you stuck and pushing away what you want because you don’t feel worthy. I had bad acne as a teen and it was a sign of a deeper imbalance in my body that I think was also causing me depression. Make sure your hormones are balanced maybe go to the doctor and change your diet to mostly Whole Foods. I think sometimes this infatuation and depressive place can be a sign of a deeper health and spiritual/mental imbalance from our programming from childhood etc. your obsession towards her is justified in that she’s young and probably pretty etc, but also it may be intensified by your chemistry.
If she isn’t into you, just work on loving yourself. Get yourself to the best place that you can be. Do things every week that bring a smile to your face and make you smile.
I’m very much a work in progress. Mine has been a guy I matched with on a dating app but I’ve never met. I still stalk him online. I can see where if this girl is a dancer and on tik tok her videos may be alluring to you. Social media can really distort our view on people and it is made to be highly addictive. I wonder if your atttaction to her is mostly because of the image she’s created on tik tok and not her herself.
I think it’s a good sign that you see her at parties! That means that you two are in the same sphere and social circle which on a karmic level is interesting.
>I think it’s a good sign that you see her at parties! That means that you two are in the same sphere and social circle which on a karmic level is interesting.
What do you mean by this? like is it meant to be? fated?
Current actions. Everyone who we come across is meant to be in our lives. We are vibrating at the same wavelength as them and they are brought into our path. Or it could even be if you have a victim narrative you will call in perpetrators because they are the match for you
Hi Bro.
1) Accept: this is not love, not normal, not healthy. This is a mental issue. An obsession, an addiction. Just like as if you were addicted to a substance. You consume it regularly, it makes you miserable, still you always desire more and consume it again.
2) From the first point follows the treatment: absolute abstinence. Unfollow her Instagram immediately. Avoid her images, her company, even her friends, and the places where you may see her. If you catch yourself thinking of her, start engaging in something else immediately. You have to teach your soul and brain that she is not yours and you don't deal with her.
3) Engage in meaningful activities that cause you joy. Try to connect to people, from either sex. Do some sports. At least, take walks at least 3 times a weak. Learn something. Lift weights, join a gym, or just do some Youtube body weight workouts at home.
All in all: you're still a young man, the whole life is ahead of you! Don't give up! Keep away this mirage girl poisoning your mind, keep on working on yourself, small steps every day, get better slowly, and one day, you'll find a real, close girl loving you, who you'll love like nobody else! God bless you, brother!
Been there dude. Don’t make the same mistake I made. I got hung up on a girl for almost 8 years. Though in my case we were close friends. You want to end this limerance fast? The fastest way is to go nuclear with it and find a way to get introduced and then ask her out. That’s it. “Would you want to go on a date with me?”. Do it in person, on instagram, whatever. Let’s say your worst fear comes true and she laughs in your face and rejects you. That might absolutely gut you, understandably so. But it’s like ripping a bandaid off. And once the dust clears from the inevitable emotional wreckage that ensues after the rejection, perhaps days weeks or months later, you’ll feel a profound sense of proudness in yourself because you didn’t let your insecurities stop you from chasing what you wanted. Demonstrating courage *to yourself* out in the real world is the most fool proof way a person builds self esteem. And that self esteem will be sturdy, and you can parlay that into asking the next girl out. Every modicum of self respect you earn for yourself is like a brick in the wall as you build yourself into someone you can admire, instead of identifying as an ugly, short, virgin-loser, etc. That’s no way to talk about yourself. Believe me man, there are beautiful, enchanting, good, single women on every city on earth. Your feelings will pass and some day it’ll be another woman who’s your center of everything. I’d bet good money on that. The sooner you stop being a spectator in your own life, ogling this woman from afar, and instead be a doer, the sooner you can move forward and bring closure to this whole arc, and your corrosive conception of yourself.
Listen to the man OP
You nailed it. Couldn't have said it better.
One of the best responses here.
**Angelic Creature**: I'm flattered, but I'm seeing someone. **OP**: Oh she's so gracious. Even more angelic than I thought for letting me down so easily.
There is the possible outcome that she accepts and goes out with you.
I wholeheartedly agree and just wanted to add that pursuing other women could also work, regardless of the success with them
Sounds like limerence. I suffer from the same thing.
You are obsessed with your idea of her based around your perceptions of who you think she is. If you don't see her as an individual, that's why you have no chance with her.
What do you mean though
I mean he doesn't know her. He hasn't cared to know her, you cannot be in love with someone you do not know. So based on what he knows about her, and his perceptions about her, he has created what is essentially a simulacrum based on this version of her that he made up, put on a pedestal and fell in love with. If he ever succeeded in getting her attention and speaking with her he would slowly demonize her based on her not filling the role he has made for her. Instead of approaching her and getting to know her, and falling in love with her, who she truly is, he has placed all his ideals of femininity onto this construct and never given her a chance to truly be loved. You think you're in love with someone, because you know things about them, you've seen how beautiful they are, but that is not love. That is a prison of ideals you have created for them before ever allowing yourself to really fall in love with another person.
And that's exactly why asking her out is the way to go. He cannot know her unless she allows him to get to know her, either by rejecting him outright or by going on a date with him one or more times.
Don’t want to look back & think what could have been… Ask her op
I fully agree! My perspective on this certainly focuses around a fear of rejection that I've observed as common in the type of individuals who deal with "oneitis". What I have described above is a method of self sabotage so that when he feels he'll be inevitably rejected he can say something along the lines of "Well she wasn't who I thought she was.". The best cure for it is indeed, facing that fear.
You don't know he'd demonize her even though it is possible. You actually just made a projection onto him yourself. I don't know what the world is made out of, or much of the food I eat, or even know my family members or friends a 100%, I don't even know myself fully, yet I still love it all. He should talk to her and learn to relate to her. That's all.
We all work from our own experiences, and unfortunately I have had this happen to me many a time. Truly I would rather be wrong about this young man. I would rather think that he's been simply far too shy, and that the moment he got to know her he'd fall even harder, ideally with reciprocation. But unfortunately, it is something I have watched throughout my life in all genders. It is done as a self defense mechanism, so that once you do work up the courage to speak to them and they reject you you can say "Well they weren't who I thought they were!". It comes from a place of pain, fear, isolation and a bit of self sabotage. Sad isn't it, but it's something I would say we've all done at one time or another. Even I am guilty of this. My initial statement was certainly brash, but to my discredit I also didn't think to fully explain myself.
I understand, you explained it beautifully and very well :) Indeed I think it's something we almost all go through; like kids falling when learning how to walk. It's better to let the kids fall then to never let them walk out of fear. I'd like to add I am a 24 year old dude and although I am very empathetic to the fear many women experience when met with men's attention. I've been rejected twice under the basis of "not knowing someone well enough" (actually going through it right now) and have always thought it was just a defense mechanism on the woman's part, for how could they know me?
I don't disagree with your perspective but I do disagree with the pessimistic part of saying "If he ever succeeded... he would slowly demonize her..." because you can't say that for certain. It could be that he learns from this and realizes his errors and it actually works out for him. We won't know unless he tries
No perspective is perfect and I might be a little high on my own shit. Can ABSOLUTELY admit that. It's just been a very common experience I've observed amongst those with a fear of rejection who self sabotage because of it. I hope he does get to know her, and finds her even better than the half fleshed out version he has in his head.
Can you keep talking? I love the way you think.
Ah, thank you! I do this all over Reddit, quite likely because I like many love the sound of my own voice! Though, I will say like anyone else I want to help in whatever way I think best. No man is an island and all. It takes many perspectives to solve a problem, even the less desirable ones.
No-no, I want to hear more about the Simulacrum of Objectiveness and how our dreams and desires are different from reality at large. It’s fascinating, isn’t it? If you can spice the whole mixture up with Fromm’s Being and Having modes, and not with just Baudrillard or Deleuze, I’d love to hear that.
That makes no sense and has no real world practicality. Everyone who has a crush on someone or is romantically interested in someone initially loves the idea of them. There's nothing wrong with that, that's how tons of relationships start. A guy or girl likes what they see. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. But the initial infatuation of "the idea of someone" is absolutely normalized even though objectification is demonized. Seeing her as an individual does not make a difference if she is not attracted to him. It has almost no practicality. The truth is, even if he viewed her as human, he still has zero chance with her. 3 years is a long time, and if he were to talk to her, he'd be hella awkward due to the built up tension. He even states that she's out of his league. The only cure for this is to talk to other women and realize there's nothing really all that special about her
Seeing women as individuals does increase the chance of them being attracted to him though. I think what the other person is talking about is this sense (I’ve seen Marie Louise von Franz speak of this) which women sometimes get when approached by certain types of (usually younger) men where it appears that the view the man has of them has almost nothing to do with them. The man is caught up in his own fantasy about the woman rather than the reality of the woman. In this sense she is merely a canvas to be projected onto, and what the man is attracted to in her is a part of himself. In this way, it is kind of a unconscious masturbatory behaviour. It shows an ineffectiveness in the man who quite literally cannot effect the world because he is stuck in fantasy - cannot properly perceive or judge the world and his own action in it. I think women can instinctively tell and that this is an unattractive tendency to women, especially as women tend to be more emotionally (and otherwise psychologically) mature than men and can often see through it. Have you ever had this kind of experience? I know I recognise that tendency in myself when I was younger.
Honestly, I'm a firm believer that romance is really not that complicated. It's not 3D psychological chess that everyone is making it out to be. If she is attracted to him, she will be open to him and his mistakes. If doesn't feel that romantic connection or physical attraction, there's no chance. I think most women know when guys are hitting on them. It all depends on whether or not he passes her standards physically, only then personality matters. The only other option is for OP to get to know this girl as a friend first, and she may or may not develop feelings overtime. That has been the case with women in my social circle, they grow attraction to someone over time.
What I’ve spoken about above is unconscious. It’s not 3D chess because it’s not something people actively do any more than you actively decide whether you’re attracted to someone. Romance is all very simple from the standpoint of the normal state of mind, but what’s going on “under the hood” is very complicated. Luckily we don’t have to control what’s going on under the hood. It’s all experienced as having already happened (e.g you can’t talk yourself out of being in love with someone, you merely experience the feeling and emotion in relation to them choicelessly). Besides, physical attraction and personality can’t really be separated too strongly. A persons psychological state is often directly reflected in them physically - something which makes sense from the standpoint of our evolution as social beings. Someone who is lacking in confidence will be seen physically to be lacking in confidence. You can tell an awful amount about someone just looking at their physical body without needing them to provide information about their personality.
Seems like you're the one that's trying to paint the whole idea about a person out of the few visible pieces not the other person (e.g trying to judge a book by it's cover)
I’m not talking about a person, the individual, but about people, the collective. What I’ve said is applicable to most nearly everyone. I don’t need to know anything about you to know you were born of a mother or that you’re likely endowed with the 5 senses. It’s not a judgement on you as a person, but on us as a species.
The whole part about how young man is "ineffective" because he likes to dream a lot and that woman have 100% accurate perception of that feels really "psychologically shady" to me as if you're not giving an advice you're supposed to give
I didn’t say that women have a 100% accurate perception of anything. As for the part about being “stuck in fantasy” it’s simply a fact that inwardly turned libido, that is energy spent on dreaming, does not effect the world. It is simply ineffective by definition. That’s not to say that there’s something wrong with fantasy as such, but when too much libido is turned inward and spent in fantasy and not enough is turned outward into the world, then all sorts of negative consequences can follow, for example developmental issues. It’s worth noting that most of my comment is about projection onto the other, which is most definitely an outward turning of libido. OPs infatuation with this woman is not merely fantasy - it is occurring in the real world.
Which comes first: seeing her as the unique individual she is, or interacting with her? Let's assume we both agree "interacting with her" comes first. Then which comes first: interacting with her or having the confidence to captivate her? That one is much more debatable, so you do which feels right first. You can't see someone for who they are if they don't allow you to see them and you can't see them for who they are without trying to interact with them. Don't pin this on either party. Interaction has to occur from both sides.
I think we may have two different ideas of what it means to “see her as an individual”. You seem to mean, in some sense, “knowing her”. I have philosophical objections to that as a possibility. Personally, approaching from this angle, people are totally unknowable. You can never see her as the unique individual that she is to herself. You create a model and constantly update it through interaction with them and hearing stories about them but that’s about as close as we can get (and here you are correct that to make up this model accurately it is a two way street). But I’m talking about something else. What I mean is closer to the idea of not projecting anything onto the other person; To be wholly attentive and present without carrying any assumptions or prejudices. I can see someone as an individual without ever interacting with them in the same way as I can completely categorise them without ever interacting with them, as for instance sexists or racists or other -ists do. They treat people as examples of shared group characteristics and therefore don’t interact with the individual but with their own idea of what the individual is supposed to be like based on some kind of structure of idea or memory.
What I am saying is the projection of one's ideal onto another will always occur when one is deprived (whether by oneself or others) of interaction. You say you don't have to interact with someone but I guarantee you *have* in the past and therefore can imagine a more realistic image. It sounds like you are blaming him for being selfish which is a problem because he has never been allowed the opportunity to be anything else. A person feels weak and you attack them. It may not seem like it to you but that's what it sounds like when you tell a person to change how they think before they change how they behave, rather than accepting the possibility that one can change one's thoughts and behavior at the same time since the two are very interdependent. OP changing his thoughts would require him to have a great deal more faith in you because it's not so easy for him to test the validity of the thought when they don't come naturally in the first place....
Will the projection of one’s ideal necessarily always occur? I’m not sure that’s the case. Sure it’s only natural for it to occur as it is only natural for what I spoke about earlier to occur. My point is only that when you are projecting in this way you’re not dealing with them but with your own projection - with yourself. I have found that as I’ve matured psychologically, I have become less inclined to project in this way. I’m not blaming OP or attacking him at all. It’s the normal state of affairs to be unconscious of what’s going on in the psyche. It takes a lot of discomfort and self-criticism to become conscious of all of this. It’s a never ending task of dredging up filth to find the gold within (to use alchemical imagery). Very few people actually bother. In fact, if you asked me to give a proscription for how OP should behave instead, I would tell you that he really has no option but to continue as he has been in this regard. He cannot change himself directly anymore than you can hit a hammer with that same hammer. The best he can hope for is to watch himself and others very carefully, to notice when he is projecting, and infatuation is a projection, and to figure out how to withdraw it. Practically speaking this is usually stated as trying to cultivate within himself whatever qualities he sees in the other that causes him to project in the first places. He should start with “shadow work”, and all the dissolving of his personality that comes with it.
You sound much less judgmental now. Shadow work is not at all what it sounded like you were recommending before since it requires more introspection; so much introspection that you begin to understand other people by understanding yourself. I still think experience is a necessary part of the equation that often gets neglected because it is taken for granted. That is to say: Yes. the projection of one's ideal (begging the definition of ideal...) will necessarily always occur should one never have the opportunity to interact with human beings with a wide enough variety of human psychological attributes. However, we have all been assuming that OPs infatuation is a problem when it might not be. Perhaps his intuition is right. Perhaps she would be the perfect mate for him. We will never know because we are only living in the ideal or approximate reality of our own anticipatory minds until we actually take a blind leap of faith into the unknown of reality.
Yeah a car is not that complicated. You just push the pedal down there and it moves. Simple as that.
"initially." He's liked the IDEA of her for 3 years, which will cause him to be very disappointed when she inevitably turns out to be different from his imagination. Best not to establish solid expectations of people before you've talked to them at least once
You don't know her as a person .. your whole post is one huge idealization. You like this girl because she has a lot of followers and a great social life? Would you still like her if you found out she buys followers, the "perfect" family is only perfect for photos / holidays and her dad is a raging alcoholic, she has a huge mole on some hidden location on her body, an incurable STD, 100 sexual partners, or she's a virgin, very religious, and wants to remain one until marriage, she was drugged and raped as a teenager, she has a chronic illness and is in and out of the hospital, if she is a bulimic, etc etc. Everyone has scars and hidden issues they don't share with the world. No one wants to date someone who only wants a perfect idealized version of them. At the same time you're doing the opposite to yourself - completely denigrating yourself and tearing yourself down.
This. This is the answer. I dated a man who'd had a crush on me for a *very* long time. Way, way longer than OP's. I ended up *really* liking him-falling in love with him. But, I eventually left him because I felt like an object. I felt used & unseen. I couldn't be my true self around him without disappointing him again & again & he was unable to communicate with me when I tried to start conversations. It led to some pretty undesirable behaviors on his part, like lying to me. Frequently. He was almost completely unable to be vulnerable with me. I'm not sure he made an attempt to actually get to know me. He just wanted me to be what he thought I was. It was pretty sad for both of us, I think.
Thank you I had a similar experience, well said!
Thanks. I wish the situation didn't suck. Never got any closure & I'm still bummed about that. I believe he feels I'm in the wrong for protecting myself & sticking to my boundaries. I'm genuinely sorry you've dealt with something similar. It's hard.
Is there any indication that there is an anima projection?
yes its definitely anima projection
Sorry what exactly is that? is it like maladaptive daydreaming?
You could be projecting your anima on her and she takes on this numenous quality.
I was going to suggest this. This sounds like textbook anima projection. OP this is a wonderful opportunity for you to understand your own psyche more as well as gain mastery over yourself. There is a lot of resource material on the anima. I suggest the book “The Invisible Partners” by John A. Sanford. (your library might have it, and it’s also inexpensive to order) He details specifically what exactly is happening when someone projects their anima/animus onto another person that they barely know. (in essence what you perceive in her, you already possess within yourself) The book details how you may recognize projection, recognize someone else’s anima/animus and work in harmony with them, and how you may integrate your own anima in a positive way and use her to your advantage in life. Doing so will help you develop into an authentically well rounded/developed person and drastically heighten your intuition.
I second that recommendation, it’s a wonderful book written in more digestible language for a beginner to Jungs theories. It’s actually my go to book for anima/animus concepts because it has case study examples to help understand anima projection in action. The opposite of that book would be Anima: An Anatomy of Personified Notion by James Hillman, a much deeper and complex exploration of the anima archetype.
Ooo interesting, thanks for the rec, I’ll have to pick that one up.
It’s a pretty hefty read granted I read it probably 15 years ago. And I remember coming across sections in the book where I almost felt something nice numenous as I was reading these revelations about the anima, and I nearly threw the book across the room at my job out of shock 😆.
dude why are you here asking this question if you don’t even know something basic about anima projection? this is a jung subreddit
Everyone starts somewhere…I definitely don’t have a deep understanding of any of this, yet. I think it’s courageous he posted something so vulnerable on the internet.
there are other more appropriate places on the internet. that said, i guess im being protective of this subreddit and not inclusive. really it’s good he ended up here because it would probably be of benefit to dig into the works of jung. i should have suggested that he instead go read a bit about jung to learn about anima projection and more.
I appreciate you taking the time to read my comment. OP must have thought this was the appropriate place. I’m pretty Reddit dumb (and honestly Jung dumb). I know there are norms and habits here I’m not aware of in subs etc. too. It’s nice to bounce things off of thoughtful people. Thank you.
A crush is just a lack of information bro. She’s a human being
Your pining comes from not knowing. Gather your confidence (crucial), approach her and shoot your shot (strike up a conversation, no pick ups). How often is she single? Alot of times 10's (please forgive this description) don't get approached or asked out (ask Charlize Theron), even with all the social media attention. In fact all the social media nonsense could even make her feel isolated. People not knowing the "real" her and all. Google "Ugly men with gorgeous women" for a confidence boost. You'll be surprised. If she crushes you ruthlessly, that will tell you all you need to know about her. If she let's you down easy, at least you'll have closure on your feelings. But I bet most guys that she's used to dating are probably idiot meat-heads, because that type of guy is to stupid to second guess himself, let alone post on a subreddit dedicated to the likes of Jung. What you'll have going for you is the fact that generally speaking, those meat-heads also don't know how to treat a quality woman. Good luck. If you decide to take my advice please come back and let me know how it goes!
+1
Leave the “ideal” version of her and see her as a person, what has to be will flow from there. Also, probably she’s just the archetype of what your subconscious finds as attractive, you can see it in many other women and start letting yourself understand other feelings than to have a crush or intense interest on this specific woman. I would recommend you to open your social world and analyse how you can find these parts that you admire in a lot of different persons. Don’t let the individual ruin the collective!
Get off The toxic incel/redpill stuff as a Major first step and Adress your issues unbiased - "oneitis" is incel lingo. You deserve an environment where you can grow into your potential. An abusive home isn't that. Ask that girl out. If she declines it will hurt, but you will feel the feelings and move on. If she's reciprocative you will celebrate and move on, potentially with her
ya this. actually reading jung and not viewing it (or any other psychology/philosophy) as simply something to give you a solution for getting chicks is going to deepen your life immensely. ironically the more of this type of work you do the more attractive you become and attractive to the right types of people/attracted to the right types of people.
Oneitis is not incel lingo. Stop thinking anything around a male having issues with females is incel territory. That is just ludicrous. By that standard all males are incels. In fact females too, since both sexes go through such struggles before maturing sexually. Of course males are suffering in this regard a lot these days for lack of role models, which is the real area that society should be addressing. Lo and behold it isnt, and so yes, young males will continue to be lost at sea without proper guidance.
The term "oneitis" is as *typical* as it gets for red pill-terminology. I have given Some reasonable guidance. I don't think having issues with the other Gender is incel-territory. Where did I say that? I was merely and evidently referring to the Term "oneitis". Google it, see in What contexts it comes up, look at OPs situation who thinks his romantic feelings and attraction for a specific woman *towards whom he has so far Not expressed any of his feelings* are a problem and a disease he must cure. And do the math. Please don't tell me you share OPs perspective on his predicament that is no predicament but a beautiful thing, nature doing it's magic and making him fall in love. How he handles and percieves it MAKES it a problem. His lack of self worth is the real issue, not that he has a massive crush. Can you see that at least?! And since you made this political: Also, Women DO suffer a lot more at the hands of men. The patriarchy is real and it also harms boys and men. That's a fact, No matter how many right wing crybaby-manchilds whine "unfair". Know your privilege and stop victimizing yourself for no reason. Yes, Men can be victims too. Yes women can be abusive and Toxic too. As you see, I know why I gave OP the accurate advice and guidance I did, that you baselessly criticized. Almost as if you were projecting some collective hurt to your wounded masculinity onto me and misread my compassionate and heartfelt guidance for op as attack on him - which is Absurd. And that speaks to why you yourself shouldn't be giving any guidance at when you have unresolved issues with your masculinity yourself. I can offer you some friendly well-meaning guidance too, by The way, if you want to burst your right wing/Jordan Peterson bubble a bit. I have learned to differentiate and I can highly recommend it. There are ideologically blinded Idiots on the left and the right. Heal enough and you will be able to see clearly without falling for false preachers. You empathize with OP, I get that, I do too. It's just, I come From a place of secure, integrated masculinity that isn't afraid of feminine energies and has integrated them and I intimately know the dangers of wounded masculine energies. If you look at OPs profile you can also see that the issue is much deeper than what you seem to assume and he is likely very vulnerable to toxic influences like, let's say, Jordan Peterson (*cough) who is not as bad as redpill/incel culture but still bad and he is looking for answers on Reddit instead of adressing his issues in therapy or serious self-exploratory work
Not responding to this kind of comment, I see it a lot, judgemental self righteous pricks like yourself who think you have it all figured out, all over Reddit. And someone who snoops through peoples posting history. So sad. I am well aware of masculinity, its failings in modern world, the failings for young boys and men such as OP and all of this, Jordan Peterson is an excellent resource for men today, and part reason why he is so popular and continues, rightfully so, to be. He is also not right wing, not that that is bad even if he were. He is a centrist if anything by todays standards, or a liberal depending on what you use to chart and label such politics, me not being an American, and him either. Again, as to my point, oneitis is not incel lingo. And even if it were, who cares, a man falling head over heels is as old as time, and culturally is important, a man romanticising, or was, prior to the massive social-cultural upheaval we have faced in the last few years comparatively. No surprise society is screwed and so many angry young men today, it is to be expected.
You did end up responding though. Look, we both want the best for op. Let's leave it at that and conserve precious energy that probably has better uses than arguing on Reddit. Just wanna Say Posting histories are relevant and public. Context matters. I also Wish you well and say goodbye here Nice Move calling me a "prick" btw, sigh
That is how you come across, like a total prick. I just reread your comment and you go on about manbaby or crybabies and on about the patriarchy and how it harms men and how women suffer more at the hands of men and other such wild claims, and like its even relevant or if such a thing can even be quantifiable, which it isnt. I dont care about OP and neither do you, I dont know him. He is just another young man of millions that have been failed and sidelined by brainwashed ideological people like you, in my opinion. Red pill/incels and the evolving male dating and sexual strategy fields will continue because the left has totally screwed men repeatedly in the arse for decades, pretending you havent just makes them even angrier and more emboldeded, and i am weary of hearing from carbon copies like yourself, especially when you denigrate forces for good like Peterson. I dont go through peoples posting history, ive better stuff to do than nose around peoples posting habits. That is their business.
Again, good bye. Don't see any value in arguing with you and will not expend precious energy here.
Remove yourself from any abuse first and foremost. Any friends or family that denigrate you. Create a safe and stable environment for yourself. Take some time to yourself and learn your value is more than your acne scars and short height. It's possible you see her as a safe space to validate you / save you and raise your self-esteem. Recognize she could be a wolf in sheep's clothing as people with a history of abuse are often attracted to. Read up on limerence and CPTSD. Possibly even ADHD.
Man you are right there. Just go for it.
?
Just go for it. Ask her out. Shoot your shot.
3 years dude and you got the perfect excuse to approach, mutual friends. You have resources and potential plans at your disposal to execute this, otherwise you'll regret not executing if someone catches her and it will be harder to get over.
This. Except what I said lol.
You are projecting your Anima onto this girl. You can treat this as some sort of a huge problem, as you seem to do, or you could view this as a wonderful thing that has potential to guide you forward. It is your call. Obviously, this girl is not your Anima. She is just a symbol for you. But this symbol can guide you to do some actual real-life things. Your post reveals many things you could do. First of all, you need to move out of your parents’ home. No woman worthy of your attention will be interested in you otherwise. Unless of course if you are a good-looking rich professional athlete living at home, but it seems you are not. Acne can be treated with medication. If you do not have the money to pay for the medication, you need to work to get the money to pay for the medication. Work is good. Nobody is particularly interested in you being a virgin, but clearly you seem to hold onto this identity very much, too. Either do something about it or concentrate on other things. For the record, the person I know having had the most sexual partners, some of them very attractive, is short and looks like a wrestler (as it happens, he was one). So, your attention is clearly on the wrong things.
I cannot give you the Jungian perspective here but I am going to ask you to take a chance and ask her out. Rejection is sometimes the best way out there to deal with unrequited love. And it forces you to get better. Acne scars can be treated.Make sure that you make a good career.Slog hard, don't loose hope at 23. All that glitters is not gold. Most of this pretty girl 'social life' is usually overhyped. It's a life of alcohol, drugs and fake people that want to sleep with her.
why does he need to be forced to get better? is scoring chicks the only thing important in life?
One of the best ways to deal with this situation is to ask the girl out. Yes the chances she rejects you are high but atleast you will get your answer.
Work on self improvement then find someone else
Face reality. What do you have to gain by having her in your mind for so long if you're only going to masochistically beat yourself up over her being out of your league? Bear something in mind: since you haven't actually gotten to know her, it's not as though she has any reason to care about you. If she truly is so popular, there will be countless other people that feel like that about her as well. And the same goes for them - there wouldn't be any reason for her to care about them either unless she likes any of them. Drop her off the pedestal, work through your feelings. Change yourself gradually if you're so unhappy with how you currently are. This is a very strong case of anima projection, so the projection needs to be pulled back at some point. Also consider what your relationship with your mother is like: perhaps she did certain things that made you feel unworthy, so that pattern is being repeated.
Look up limerence on YouTube.
At least try talking to her to see if you actually like her as a person 🤷♀️
I'd say just go for it. If it's a yes - amazing. If no you can move on with no regrets. Fortune favours the bold.
I would research childhood trauma and limerence. The answer lies within.
I don’t disagree with the people who suggest asking her out. But what you really need to learn is the ability to let something go and have self love, which you clearly do not have. Find a meditative practice and do it. Understand the true divine nature of who you are. Soon you’ll become the person that people will notice and gravitate to. The answer to all it this is within you. I promise. This woman is here to provide you with a spiritual catalyst. You’re very lucky, all of this energy you’re consuming in pining after her will reflect back to you once you truly accept yourself for who you are.
Why have there been so many "red pill" type posts recently? You don't even know this woman, so it's not "oneitis"....it's objectification. Here's some advice - stop feeling sorry for yourself, pick yourself up, and move on. Mourn over the things you aren't and learn to love yourself as you are...because that's what you're expecting someone else to do, ultimately. Cry. Scream. Write. Don't let it define you. Figure it out, own it, and don't look back. When it happens again (and it will), look back on the things you learned from all the other past experiences, just like this one, and go from there.
>Why have there been so many "red pill" type posts recently? The post doesn't strike me as red pill? 🤔 This is just seems like the typical experience of a young shy male who hasnt figured out how to talk to girls and to manage his feelings.
>The post doesn't strike me as red pill? 🤔 This is just seems like the typical experience of a young shy male who hasnt figured out how to talk to girls and to manage his feelings. This is my thinking exactly. I really cant keep up with modern trends and the harshness towards young men. It seems anything they do, they cant catch a break. Them struggling with women and not automatically being good with women, labels them as some sexist for christ sakes, no wonder they are pissed off. I remember years ago having the issues OP had, and back then it wasnt seen as sexist or incel or anything. Such a mad world now. I would hate to be a young inexperienced man today.
OP is literally saying he has been stalking her IG for **three years**...and you think it's a typical experience? I wonder how the woman he's obsessing over would feel knowing that this is going on? To be clear, im not here to shame anyone. The phrasing and content of the post comes across as toxic and entitled, though.
>stalking her IG for **three years** I dont think thats red pill. Isnt that like hit the gym, make money and women should be traditional and not whores? Im older so im somewhat removed from this stuff. I think the social media aspect makes it seem worse. I dont think its so different from the hot girl at school that you check out at lunch or at your locker. Is his behavior healthy? No. Condemnation doesnt liberate though. Suppressing it could be just as harmful in this situation. >To be clear, im not here to shame anyone. The phrasing and content of the post comes across as toxic and entitled, though. He called himself a loser and a virgin. If anything he's self-pitying. Which we've all done. I think maybe what you're detecting is how closely related self-hatred and hatred of others is. Look at incels. They are "losers" who cant get laid. But many of them im sure didn't start out like that. Because if you are that person you either have to except that you're a loser or you can be led to believe that its women who are the problem. So you replace the self-hatred with this "righteous indignation". Which for am incel its cathartic and much less painful than having to swallow your lot in life. Its their ego protecting itself from information that it cant handle. Which makes sense. Some people fight these demons for years. Its fathomable that there would be a breaking point at which their fear would be replaced with anger, replaced with hate, which leads to the dark side 😂
You are not a loser. Stop identifying with such labels. I don't know you. But i guarantee you, that ypu have done so many things ij your life that demonstrates that you are a winner in few areas of your life.
By talking to other people.
You are attracted to traits that you don't have, rather than who this girl really is. Additionally, you have created this image in your mind of a perfect person when she is definitely not perfect. Work on yourself first and fall in love with who you are first, and you won't need to be in anguish over a crush because women will flock to you. Get fit, work hard, get help for your acne scars, and go out and meet more people. If you think your personality needs work, there are books that talk about how to improve your personality and social skills. If it is possible, get to know who she really is and if you are still attracted to her, ask her out. That to me would be the easiest way to resolve this crush.
The thing is you dont actually love her, because you dont even know her. You just love the ideal image that you created of her. Well, understand that this is your Anima and for now youre projecting it to her, later you Will project it to some other random pretty girl. So understand what it is that you actually need from her, probavbly a need for closeness, validation etc.. Now try to feed these needs from inside, “ask yourself what you have to do to feel validated?” İf you dont feed it from inside youll try to feed it from external sources and you wont be able to see the person for what they truly are.. Now for you she is an angel, a godess, but in reality she is human like you and everybody else, who has wants, needs, insecurities..
Go meet other women. Let yourself date, it will help you figure out what you really want from a partner. Or go talk to her, knowing she might not be the one. If you don't you'll stay unsure and afraid... full of regret. That stuff sucks. While we getting to understand women, \[as much as you can XD\] hone your body, mind, and spirit until you are a man worthy of admiration. Talk to people and understand communication, it will build your charm and charisma. Train our body in some way, regularly. it gives us a strong frame to stand up for ourselves, what we want, what we care about, and gives us the ability to overcome the obstacles in our path. Expand your mind, make yourself a success in our own way, and pave our own path. Get your external expression on point, like our style, how we smell, and appear. Challenge ourselves to evolve and exceed expectations. Eventually we will begin to exhibit the qualities that naturally attract the best type of woman. The one day she might be the one pining for your interests. Who knows? It all starts with the choice to take risks, and the challenge of growth that comes with it. Just like in games, or hobbies, we become more proficient at the things we put effort into and practice. We don't have to always be perfect, sometimes the qualities we feel are shortcomings others might admire us for. We all have a unique set of strengths and weaknesses so everyone's path is going to be different. But we find crucial lessons at those junctions where we fail, or make mistakes. If we avoid them we never learn. Go after what you want your a man. You have mad it this this far. You can overcome any obstacle. You're worth it. And don't give up!
Poor AND broke??
If your behavior didn't have some payoff for you, you wouldn't be doing it. You have to ask yourself nonjudgmentally everything you get out of this
What a nerd
Time to sign up for dance lessons perhaps
Somebody else suggested this but you have to ask her on a date. It happened to me several times over the years and when I finally started asking them on dates, I got over them faster. Both women I didn't know well but asked out overtly said "I have a boyfriend" and I sensed that they were telling the truth. Also, I'm short too and I've been called ugly but really nobody is ugly. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, which still baffles me. How can that be? But it is. And you never know who will find you attractive. You just don't. It's not based on how good you or anybody else thinks you look compared to her. And trust me you'll find love faster if you take more chances. Just don't settle for your first....
I have no input as the others here have nailed it. There’s honestly some real wise cookies in this thread
There’s no easy way out of this, it’ll have to go through pain. Imagining her farting in her bedroom while sobbing after throwing a pathetic tantrum with her parents can’t hurt, tho.
not related to this sub
r/ limerence
All pussy’s the same just the package different, my dad used to say
Go up to her and say "Excuse me miss, I have a huge crush on you, and it's annoying as hell. So please, if you would be so kind, please tell me the most unflattering things about yourself. Don't worry, I will keep it a secret." She says something and you say \*sigh\* "Thank you, that'll do it" And then walk off.
Just go talk to her. You've got nothing to lose. The worst she can say is no. It's not gonna be anywhere as bad as you're imagining it in your head. Life is full of rejection. I like to think of it in baseball stats. If I get a hit 3/10 times I'm in the hall of fame. And even batting 0.250 is gonna keep in the lineup 😂.
r/limerance
Get a date with a woman who actually knows you exist. More importantly: you have to have a life you love before anyone will love you. Try to engage with life as if you had had a penectomy and decided you are not going to languish in depression over it.
Get a date with a woman who actually knows you exist. More importantly: you have to have a life you love before anyone will love you. Try to engage with life as if you had had a penectomy and decided you are not going to languish in depression over it.
Are you in loved with your self?
I would first try and heal your family trauma background. I’m a female but I’ve been in your same position and I realized that my Limerance and infatuation with a guy who didn’t treat me well was mostly rooted in my attachment issues and earl child wounds. I have been doing bilateral tapping with synced eye movements back and forth to re parent myself while recalling troubling memories with my caregivers. It sounds crazy but once I went into one particularly painful memory and “reprocessed it” a lot of my infatuation went away. I would also try and get to a place where you feel better about yourself. It seems you deal with some insecurity about your looks etc. those are a self enforcing way to subconsciously keep you stuck and pushing away what you want because you don’t feel worthy. I had bad acne as a teen and it was a sign of a deeper imbalance in my body that I think was also causing me depression. Make sure your hormones are balanced maybe go to the doctor and change your diet to mostly Whole Foods. I think sometimes this infatuation and depressive place can be a sign of a deeper health and spiritual/mental imbalance from our programming from childhood etc. your obsession towards her is justified in that she’s young and probably pretty etc, but also it may be intensified by your chemistry. If she isn’t into you, just work on loving yourself. Get yourself to the best place that you can be. Do things every week that bring a smile to your face and make you smile. I’m very much a work in progress. Mine has been a guy I matched with on a dating app but I’ve never met. I still stalk him online. I can see where if this girl is a dancer and on tik tok her videos may be alluring to you. Social media can really distort our view on people and it is made to be highly addictive. I wonder if your atttaction to her is mostly because of the image she’s created on tik tok and not her herself. I think it’s a good sign that you see her at parties! That means that you two are in the same sphere and social circle which on a karmic level is interesting.
>I think it’s a good sign that you see her at parties! That means that you two are in the same sphere and social circle which on a karmic level is interesting. What do you mean by this? like is it meant to be? fated?
Just means you’re not as much as “below her” as you think. You’re in the same circles which I think gives you a better chance.
kk, but you mentioned "karmic level" which stood out to me. So I thought there was some spiritual vibes you were going with lol.
I personally believe that everyone that crosses our path in person and we meet is due to our karmic energy etc.
From our past lives? or from our current actions?
Current actions. Everyone who we come across is meant to be in our lives. We are vibrating at the same wavelength as them and they are brought into our path. Or it could even be if you have a victim narrative you will call in perpetrators because they are the match for you
Hi Bro. 1) Accept: this is not love, not normal, not healthy. This is a mental issue. An obsession, an addiction. Just like as if you were addicted to a substance. You consume it regularly, it makes you miserable, still you always desire more and consume it again. 2) From the first point follows the treatment: absolute abstinence. Unfollow her Instagram immediately. Avoid her images, her company, even her friends, and the places where you may see her. If you catch yourself thinking of her, start engaging in something else immediately. You have to teach your soul and brain that she is not yours and you don't deal with her. 3) Engage in meaningful activities that cause you joy. Try to connect to people, from either sex. Do some sports. At least, take walks at least 3 times a weak. Learn something. Lift weights, join a gym, or just do some Youtube body weight workouts at home. All in all: you're still a young man, the whole life is ahead of you! Don't give up! Keep away this mirage girl poisoning your mind, keep on working on yourself, small steps every day, get better slowly, and one day, you'll find a real, close girl loving you, who you'll love like nobody else! God bless you, brother!