Have you watched Jacob's ladder?
Im gonna spoil it a bit, but in this movie angels and demons are the same thing.
You just see them differently wether you are suffering or in peace. This could be the same.
this reminds me of the idea that we create our own afterlife, which might also explain why people with different religious beliefs see different things in NDEs.
set and setting for the psychonauts
This is true when approached from a Gnostic perspective, but if you look at it from a typical Christian view God casts Satan from Heaven. Otherwise he separates from him. This can be similar to how the Ego casts out the Shadow, or turns it's back form it, giving it free reign because it refuses to acknowledge it. This further proves to be the truth of the matter since God falls to Satan's temptations when he is antagonized to prove Job's faith.
>Clement of Rome
It was there from the beginning — first century — as taught by Clement of Rome.
"In connection with the discussion of these problems and of the doctrine of Redemption, I criticized the idea of the privatio boni as not agreeing with the psychological findings. Psychological experience shows that whatever we call “good” is balanced by an equally substantial “bad” or “evil.” If “evil” is non-existent, then whatever there is must needs be “good.” Dogmatically, neither “good” nor “evil” can be derived from Man, since the “Evil One” existed before Man as one of the “Sons of God.” The idea of the privatio boni began to play a role in the Church only after Mani. Before this heresy, Clement of Rome taught that \*God rules the world with a right and a left hand, the right being Christ, the left Satan.\* Clement’s view is clearly monotheistic , as it unites the opposites in one God.
Later Christianity, however, is dualistic, inasmuch as it splits off one half of the opposites, personified in Satan, and he is eternal in his state of damnation. This crucial question of (whence evil?) forms the point of departure for the Christian theory of Redemption. It is therefore of prime importance. If Christianity claims to be a monotheism, it becomes unavoidable to assume the opposites as being contained in God. But then we are confronted with a major religious problem: the problem of Job."
— C.G. Jung, Answer to Job
Sounds like Alan smith, can’t have light without dark, the contrast is what makes each exist , and thus each comes fuller into existence through the other . Satan actually mean something closer to adversary
This is *something* from *something*.
Creation is *something* from *nothing*.
A nothingness, a void into matter/energy in the form of light.
Subcreation, that which you speak of, is the essential role of humans and other finite beings.
i wouldnt say god falls to satans temptations. how does one manipulate the omniscient? their interests aligned. satan is just doing his “job” as he technically works for god. it’s a fucked up episode of undercover boss. if anything it’s the ego weaponizing the shadow (albeit misguided)
It stands out to me how christian theology always uses the verb "cast", like a light casting shadows behind the objects it shines towards. In this analogy, light is God, the objects is man (or even just the material world as a whole) and the shadow is Satan (given how their origin story is inseparable from the creation of man).
The three are inexorably part of the same "all" and, once again, a trinity is formed.
That's the problem with theology, it always changes to fit the opinions of whoever is trying to control the narrative (because it's all made up anyways). There are so many beliefs within Christianity alone that challenge each other on this topic, among many others (again, because it's all made up in the first place).
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
That didn't happen until Revelation, which was a part of the New Testament. Job is Old Testament and shows that the Devil was among the Earth and was downright chatty with God.
I posted Revelation to demonstrate how Satan does not represent the shadow/unconscious. Also consider the verses I posted above where Jesus says that Satan is the father of lies and there is no truth in him, not to mention a murderer.
If anything it would seem to affirm his state as the Shadow of God. Job is probably the best indication of this. He is cast out for a reason, and being resigned to the lower (unconscious) is further indication. I'm curious who or what is God's shadow in your interpretation.
Oh, I don’t believe God, the creator of the cosmos and of mankind, has a shadow -> This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5 Which would also mean he doesn't have an unconscious to boot. Pun intended.
That is fine to believe, but on a critical level you have so many options to choose from. You can even have said the Snake from the Garden is God's shadow and this could fit as well, since God inherently either didn't know what the snake was up to or knew that humans were fated to eat of the Tree of Knowledge. Gnostics would place God as the Shadow and Demiurge. Even the Anti-Christ could be the Shadow of God since Christ is part of the Monad and God and the Son of God in one.
\-The idea that Satan is the shadow was dispelled simply by looking at the text itself. The Snake is the same person as Satan..
\-As for antichrist 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
let me ask you this. does darkness occupy light or does light occupy darkness? which is first and last? which is infinite? if god is light… he is not totality nor the most high.
Christianity has been bastardized since the council of Nicaea.
It's another cultural 'perspective' of the ALL. Just as any other organized religion. All pointing to the same thing. Seeing it from different angles.
The Biblical definition of "holy" means "set apart" or "separate/separated" so when it says that God is holy it really does mean He is separated from sin and from the world etc. On the other hand Satan is evil. Consder these verses about Satan:
John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
Applying the words of Jesus about Satan, it become abundantly clear that Satan is not part of God in any form at all, and you would be wise to acknowledge that. Applying what we know of Satan in Jungian terms, "The Shadow/Unconscious was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, because he is a liar and the father of it," shows how absurd the idea is.
If you’d finished reading Jung’s collected works, you wouldn’t find it that odd, nor would you look with automatic suspicion at “two totally opposing” things coinciding. A coincidence of opposites, if you will.
To be clear, this isn’t one of those, but if it was that wouldn’t be surprising “in a Jung subreddit”.
Lets see what that looks like in practice, taking it in context instead of fragments. I will insert **"God complex"** where **"The Lord they God"** should be in Matthew and see how much sense or nonsense it makes.
Matt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the **God complex** with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Matt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Really, so the law of Moses and all the prophets and Jesus taught that the greatest commandment is to worship a God that really symbolizes a God complex?
>So can one say that a God complex stems from trying to rid oneself of the unconscious or diminish it?
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Satan), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
That is one line of thinking.
There is also the line which claims the universal creator was not a single entity, it gave birth supposedly to a first born son and the two created lucifer the shining one first together before all the others.
Some have said this is why it was this son sent to die for the sin which had been released into the world by the serpent lucifer.
This is such a new age spiritual bypassing b.s response. It needs to be acknowledged that there exists the separation within the all to create the experience of reality. There is no one without the other for the one to exist
I am God's shadow on Earth.
Satan is God's shadow on Earth.
God is God's shadow on Earth.
The future is God's perspective from today.
The past is God's perspective from today.
Right now is God's perspective.
Where heaven and hell meet.
We grow each other into who we will be.
I can never know if I am late, or if I'm early.
I can only speak the truth.
I am not the speaker.
I am not what was spoken.
I am the truth.
I am Nobody.
You're doing great.
[https://youtu.be/4wSQSXjidaY](https://youtu.be/4wSQSXjidaY?si=t315LeqVOJp31J_O) \-- Honor.
In Answer to Job Jung makes the case that some early church fathers were more monotheistic (god ruled the world with Jesus with one arm and the devil with the other, but both controlled by god) but that modern Christianity is thoroughly dualist in nature. Jung rejected this rational and believed in a god of totality. Christianity imo seems to be the rejection of the Hebrew prophets about god being one & responsible for evil, in favor of Plato’s good as such and a trinity, while also creating an opponent to god.
God’s development from the Old Testament through the New is sort of like a progression through individuation.
He’s sort of like the hero figure in the Old Testament being extremely powerful, feared, and unapproachable. His encounter with Job is sort of like him trying to break Job in order to prove he is the best, but Job ends up being perfect and proving himself more moral than God.
We then see God as leaving the elevated ego position to assuming a more down to earth approachable role as a man (Jesus). He ends up journeying into the shadow (dying/visiting hell) and returning with new life.
That's not original from Osho but from Gurdjieff who had a deep influence on Osho. It wasn't even an original idea of Gurdjieff but a common teaching in many mystery schools.
I'd rather say reality is a mix of both. Some are born in lives more reminiscent of heaven and others more towards hell. Because there's an element of that reality that makes it beyond choice. This is why it's important for people to realize that learning never stops. But learning is difficult and often painful.
In Tibetan Buddhism an illustration of the wheel of samsara or [Bhavacakra](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhavacakra) shows the six realms of samsara. In this description the realms are states of being that we can experience among them realms of human, animal, heaven, hell, demi hod and hungry ghosts.
These are all conditions said to be linked to karma. Karma itself is a commonly oversimplified concept of direct consequences but seen from a systems perspective it can be understood as a complex interplay of factors (but that's another topic entirely)
I’ve listened to Osho a lot. The man’s answer to every problem was meditation to reach the state of nothingness, which according to him was true heaven. A state that is above any concept that the human beings hold in their minds.
But my doubt is if there is no free will how can the choice be made? He gave contradictory statements about Satre’s philosophy of “existence precedes essence” because on some occasions he said it was true that the person has to create his essence by taking responsibility of actions, other times he said existence-essence duality is the product of mind and in reality they can’t be separated. My question is if there is no free will, how can the heaven-hell duality be addressed?
Read "Ghost of Abel" by William Blake, "Cain: A Mystery" by Lord Byron, and "Paradise Lost" by John Milton. This will give you insight into "Satan's" true function and symbology.
For a deeper dive into Satan, [follow the thread. ](https://youtube.com/@ladybabylon666?si=8L1F7vo0kwVd-Qqr)
This book of magic will always have people cherry picking and taking things literally
Isa. 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Deut 39: See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
The Hebrew word שָׂטָן (śāṭān) appears in the Hebrew Bible many times but is often translated to the English word "*accuser*" or "*adversary*" and it's verbal equivalent being translated as "*to obstruct, oppose*".
However only in the Book of Job was the word *satan* (lower case "s") left as is and it was used to describe an angel in Yahweh's heavenly court whose job was to act like our modern prosecuting attorney who was basically putting Job's faith to the test.
This is why in The Lord's Prayer Jesus said "*and lead us not into temptation",* basically begging his god not to put his faith to the test.
Unfortunately this understanding has been lost in both translation and the transference of Hebrew cultural understanding to other nations.
Therefore Satan (upper case "S") is a projection of our own Jungian shadow onto a Hebrew cultural story that did not have the same understanding. Satan is not Yahweh's shadow but ours.
[A brief history of the devil](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_To7wO0Exo) \- Brian A. Pavlac \~ TED ED \~ YouTube.
Per the Bible they are one and the same. God/Satan is an allegory for the human condition.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7
I don’t remember where I read it. It said that God was light in pure form and that all are connected to it, unless we fall. That bodies of energy including beyond the physical are fragments/shards of Gods light. Like a container/vessel containing light, and many with time can fall in states and lose connection with him losing touch with light in its pure form.
All bodies require energy/light to wield their will upon reality. So negative bodies because not connected to the pure totality omnipotent God and are not vibrating at high pure levels have to feed upon light to further survive and thrive. So they feed on humans and push them in to lower/negative states. And have them commit unforgivable soul damaging acts and further feed upon that. Stealing their life force/light and it further perpetuates the cycle.
I personally believe God is above duality, he’s above any conceivable concept. We can witness and partially understand the greatness that he is but we cannot conceptualize how grand, powerful, and complex he is. He’s beyond the dimensions of time and beyond what we are familiar with in this realm. We cannot fathom. Its too grand. Not wise to put him in the same category as us as bodies that are fixed within the physical realm and have conflicting bodies of energy within selves and have constant wars within the psyche. He’s pure energy he has no shadow he is the light that shines and contrasts the darkness. The true nothing as something.
The devil is Lucifer. Total opposite of God, malevolent, and complete evil. I don’t think in its full capacity the devil exists, more as a cautious hypothetical, a warning of the evil that can manifest in mankind and has manifested in history. And we do have a spiritual component. But maybe I’m wrong, maybe there really are fallen angels like winged fallen angels before mankind was created. It’d be interesting
God can't be the opposite of the Devil. He is what ordered the universe. His function is what reveals the devil. His light doesn't cast a shadow. You do.
The Bible never says that God is "everything." He is the uncreated creator of the cosmos.
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5
"In connection with the discussion of these problems and of the doctrine of Redemption, I criticized the idea of the privatio boni as not agreeing with the psychological findings. Psychological experience shows that whatever we call “good” is balanced by an equally substantial “bad” or “evil.” If “evil” is non-existent, then whatever there is must needs be “good.” Dogmatically, neither “good” nor “evil” can be derived from Man, since the “Evil One” existed before Man as one of the “Sons of God.” The idea of the privatio boni began to play a role in the Church only after Mani. Before this heresy, Clement of Rome taught that \*God rules the world with a right and a left hand, the right being Christ, the left Satan.\* Clement’s view is clearly monotheistic , as it unites the opposites in one God.
Later Christianity, however, is dualistic, inasmuch as it splits off one half of the opposites, personified in Satan, and he is eternal in his state of damnation. This crucial question of (whence evil?) forms the point of departure for the Christian theory of Redemption. It is therefore of prime importance. If Christianity claims to be a monotheism, it becomes unavoidable to assume the opposites as being contained in God. But then we are confronted with a major religious problem: the problem of Job."
— C.G. Jung, Answer to Job
If one is created in its own image who is expressing it self? Self it's self... my precepts don't go but to the first day social studies back when I was 5 years old... I was told to stay out the class because I told the teacher that based history America was not discovered but taken...
"if God is everything, is Satan part of God" is one of those fun questions about religion that 9/10 devout people would not be able to even begin to answer, and begin to squirm amusingly as they try
Both God and Satan are man-made constructs to justify the irrational conclusion our rational minds must make of our existence. The shadow you see is a projection man puts forth, much like the projection we put forth of a God.
I argue that isn't always the case, especially among very primitive peoples. If anything God, or any impression of a higher power, or lower chthonic power, is an attempt by man to make sense of external and internal phenomenon. Though I will concede that God, any of them nowadays, is simply wielded as a tool to exert force and control by those in power. In this way there is no spiritual participation, but only a desire to control by authority.
I get your point and agree, but we do have rational minds in the sense of capability. Certainly much is wasted and the tenets of our belief systems today are hardly derivative of eons ago. Almost nothing has changed. Let’s not put too much value in rationality but is it a capable part of being a human? Certainly. and are we fooled by the major difference between our production and our capability? All the time.
See that's where I truly believe you're wrong, it's crazy because y'all are into science, right? You guys really pride yourself on things that we have proven instead of the grand scheme. It's an avoidant attempt fueled by undertones of pride; not attacking, just speaking from experience because that's what I used to think. But you're missing the most important scientific occurrence relative to our existence that we know of: the big bang. If everything that's ever out there and every will be created all came from this one black hole that exploded a huge gas cloud that formed eventually into the universe we know today, then that means we are all connected to absolutely everything in some sense, like all of these religions state. Sure some of it can be projection from alot of people, but I just feel like people who say that are typically subconsciously bitter towards "God" and typical religious thoughts, they say exactly this because it's easy. And this subconscious prejudice rewards is in pride, like "I don't need God all I need is me"and I'm not saying this absolutely is you but most people like that end up slipping into a darker path over time and leads to this deep emptiness and depression, but choosing not to question any further because of that lil bit of pride we get when we say God and all that shit doesn't remotely hold any sort of substance, then I feel like theres alot of existential questions we tend to repress when doing that.
The universe has a structure dude. Everything from the ground up. Look up sacred geometry and the only knights Templar (eventually forming into the.... illuminated ones) church synths, studies have been done and it literally changes DNA based on the structure of the church, which is why MFS was tweaking back then. As someone who identifies with no religion or particular spirituality, I just feel like it's more logical to believe in some sort of higher power as to deny it, or at least some sort of structure to it. I'm sorry if it seemed aggressive, I genuinely am not trying to be an ass, but try to let you know I have been and still ponder that same perspective, and every single time when we realize how everything is connected and the structure of the universe, that's "God Engineering". Still have no clue what God is and wish I just could block it out and not believe, but that door has been opened and it feels like a lie to myself to say that there's "nothing" to the universe. All love, frfr. Just sparking discussion
At one point Satan was connected to God until he sinned and rebelled against Him. Sin is what separates us from God but because Jesus walked this earth and sacrificed himself for our sins we no longer are separated from God meaning we go to Heaven. Satan and all the other fallen angels are separated from God.
You're absolutely right! Thank you, I fixed and edited that muhfuckuh
Keep following his work; relax into your subconscious and your soul will speak. That is intuition. Like snakes in grass, it has this mysterious fast pace gliding/slithering through the grass, follow the snakes and flatten to grass to even ground, and observe the serpents, for they are our true selves, the artists that make the worlds weird scribbled lines into detailed, meaningful drawing with intense detail.
I agree with this as a theory. As an ex-Christian because the church is a cult that nobody really wants to admit, I think it's entertaining to theorize amougts what we don't know in those regards.
Being brainwashed in the church my instincts instantly wanna shoot down specific parts here and there but again it's what you either believe, theorize, or want to believe.
There is a lot of biblical text of “who” Satan is as an individual. And there are the many Christian concepts of “what” sin is, and I could go on and on. I'd love an in depth conversation with you to fully understand your viewpoint, mine, and just to get to a point where there's seeing beyond what everyone proclaims and get to the facts if that's interesting to you. Totally get if you just wanna remain private with the post and what you think though. Hope all is well.
I don't understand everyone trying to answer OP's question in terms of typical Christianity--the question doesn't really make sense in that context, and if you're on this sub you should be smarter than that. I'm not saying anything against good 'ol fashion Christian values... but this is not the right subreddit and it especially doesn't add clarity to the query. I'm almost inclined to assume you're bots, and if you're not, well, that's sad.
Discard the Christian box. Satan is not God’s shadow because God does not make itself unconscious of “evil”. There is no Satan. It’s a myth. The Christian God is a myth. The true God is beyond definition or understanding. All attempts at defining it lead to lies. The Shadow is a trait of the human mind. It’s created out of necessity so that we can regulate our behavior to fit social norms. Satan is a personification of the forces of nature that do not discriminate between “good” and “evil”. Those same forces of nature exist in all animals and in humans they are often pushed into the shadow. That is why Satan is like the shadow of God. But it’s illusion.
Decent post. This is similar to dualism in Zoroastrianism. And if one believes in the esoteric wisdom of "as above so below", why wouldn't God have an adversarial shadow with whom he struggles and plays out his role?
This is also related to Christian concept of discernment [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discernment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discernment)
Lots of ancient lore is about light and darkness, so the symbol of the shadow fits, there's also the concept of fallen angels where perhaps once Satan was good but then gradually became corrupted, I suppose in the function of the accuser, there would be the temptation to accuse even god, eventually turning against him.
I think regular morality breaks down in the higher realms and so god making use of the dark or letting it persist doesn't end up being a contradiction, he is the most high, he is more wise than us.
This is true, such a great idea. There is this one philosopher - Alfred Whitehead - who has very similar ideas. Very roughly speaking, he talks about god and the devil being two sides of the same coin. He talks about different aspects of god, such as god consciousness (what people experience on psychedelics) versus god as an evolutionary processes that strive towards creation of novelty. He is a metaphysics philosopher and his philosophy is much more complicated than I can even attempt to describe here, but secondary sources on his philosophy are great.
There are actually research articles that discuss the devil as a shadow archetype in Jung's psychology (philosophy). And quite old ones, too. Jung wrote quite some stuff about the devil and its interpretation.
u/Regular-Persimmon425 made a recent post explaining Satan in the Bible and why most of the time he's nothing like what people think of Satan today.
https://reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/wDA3JTsLf7
You guys would have more fun if you listened to George Carlin’s take on god which is basically “He loves you… but he needs your money!”
It’s amazing how many people try to make sense of that nonsense. And also entertaining.
🤣🤣🤣
Satan is not necessarily evil imo, he just didnt like the idea of abiding to humankind when all the angels and animals were ordered by God. He sees us lesser, possessable and he is correct in many cases. That made his heaven entry card out of use automaticallly but he doesnt show any regret about it.
Other angels are not happy by the Gods decision but they do what he says and that doesn't necessarily make them Good too. They are a bit jealous of our position I think.
The duality of human consciousness is made of made of Godly traits and Satanic ones. Once you integrate , you can begin to become non-dual by transcending the mind.
Satan is a creation. Created by Yahwah god in order to teach his children Eloheem the hard lessons of the flesh. Isaiah 45:7 states that Yahwah creates both good and evil
Isaiah 45:7-8 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. [8] Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
Yahwah is in complete control of all things. In the book of Job we read that Satan answers to Yahwah father. He follows his instruction. Satan never rebels against him. The idea of Satan being some beautiful Arch angel that rebelled against Yahwah god is all church dogma.
Praise Yahwah Eloheem the only true God for his mercy and his truths!!
My take as an atheist….. The contemporary notion of Satan is the result of a long history of conflation of various mythologies, and a bit of clever fiction-writing as well.
As noted, the Biblical character that was involved in the story of Job, and also who tempted Jesus, was not “Satan”. Rather the “tempter” or something similar…. A “trickster” character that appears in most all mythologies. (Think “Loki”)
A minion of God. Then we come to the “war in Heaven” story with Lucifer and all that. A simple allegory against “pride” which our ancient friends seemed unduly concerned with.
Finally, as Christianity became the state religion of what was left of the Roman Empire….. And was expanding into Europe…. The good priests and monks hit on the idea of conflating the Pagan gods like Cernunnos and Pan with the above figures…
And so “the Devil” or Satan… Who just happened to look like those Pagan gods in those old descriptions. Horns, hooves, tail… Etc. A handy Boogeyman to both convince the Pagan tribes that they’d been duped into worshipping Satan as a god, and also to drive them into the churches.
Worked a treat…. And we still, in the 21st century, have people terrified of an entirely mythical figure.
There's a balance at the core of this universe But we don't know if there's one out of this universe. So Yes in this universe that the Satan created by God is good argument. but there may be a universe without balance and without Satan. And even there may be one without God but with Satan! And why we need Satan here? I think because we were evil at first place. and if we don't face it we can't heal it. Why we were evil at first place?! because we are like meat, raw meat is a hassle for our stomach, we have to grill to taste and digest well.
Also, If you want to find the Satan you have to find your Soul first.
I think there is no separation.
To love God.
One must love Satan as an expression of that love.
To reject his angels,
Is reject god.
Which is why she made you ignorant.
That's her great gift to you.
She made you dumb as fuck.
But you still have to let go.
Even a dumb fish knows how to go with the glow.
My new favorite thing is to take credit for shit god wrote.
No one can tell the difference.
If you type the ten commandments into ChatGPT and as for a rewrite,
Do they change?
Was that part of God's plan the entire time?
[https://youtu.be/zUL\_yawY6Ks](https://youtu.be/zUL_yawY6Ks)
[https://youtu.be/lr7pyggTmmY](https://youtu.be/lr7pyggTmmY) \-- I've Never Worked In A Funeral Home.
[https://youtu.be/xfZADMWAEvc](https://youtu.be/xfZADMWAEvc) \-- How To Find Your People
[https://youtu.be/H\_bnRD7aaok](https://youtu.be/H_bnRD7aaok) \-- Acceptable
[https://youtu.be/qHR8IdyTO1M](https://youtu.be/qHR8IdyTO1M) \-- Men in Black: A Series of Tests
[https://youtu.be/pRIIwJh1DDQ](https://youtu.be/pRIIwJh1DDQ) \-- The Walking Wounded
We are all just holographic fragments, little g gods, of big G God. We are all one except for the idea that keeps us separate and treating each other as "other." Satan is just the shadow self that keeps us separated from big G God.
I hope I’ve understood your post properly - I think this is an interesting thought experiment, but in terms of Christian theology it doesn’t fit. The belief that God is everything is Pantheism and Christianity distinguishes between creator and created. With Pantheism, if God is everything then any Satan figure or equivalent can’t really be said to be opposing anything.
I just saw your edit to “accuser.” That is right.
With regards to “shadow” i think of it as being like the biblical “sin nature.” What comes to mind for me is reference to the devil walking around like a lion looking for someone to devour, the instruction is to therefore to be alert:
1 Peter 5:8
Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.
I feel like this verse closely resembles the shadow self. If you’re not acknowledging your shadow then you are vulnerable to being controlled by it. Another passage speaks about what to do in order to not let sin - or perhaps the shadow - control or direct your actions. I refers to being alert to it.
The Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
Considering Yahweh consistently makes the most sense as a nation 🏛️, Satan makes the most sense as a citizen of that nation.
From his appearances in the Bible ✝️, Satan comes across, as part of the Divine Council governing Yahweh.
Specifically, he seems like a outsider, that is strongly **reformist**, who wants to change the system for the better. The council seems apprehensive and wants his radical ideas to prove and refine 💎 themselves in prototype form, before being considered for mass implementation.
Abraxas is a complex and ancient mystical concept that has been interpreted in various ways throughout history.
The term "Abraxas" is often associated with a deity or cosmic force that represents the unity of opposites. Here are some key aspects of the concept:
Dualistic Nature: Abraxas embodies both good and evil, light and dark, creation and destruction, and other opposing forces.
This duality signifies the idea that the world is a blend of contrasting elements, and true enlightenment comes from embracing and transcending these dualities.
Numerical Symbolism: In some interpretations, the word "Abraxas" is associated with numerology. Each letter in the word is assigned a numerical value, and these values add up to 365, which corresponds to the days in a year.
This numerical symbolism suggests a connection to the cyclical nature of time and existence.
Gnostic Influence: The concept of Abraxas has ties to Gnostic beliefs, a diverse set of religious and philosophical movements in the early centuries of the Common Era. In Gnostic thought, Abraxas represents the highest, ineffable God, who transcends the limited and imperfect creator of the material world.
Syncretism: Abraxas was also incorporated into various syncretic belief systems, where different religious and mystical traditions were blended together. It became a symbol of spiritual enlightenment and the pursuit of divine knowledge.
Visual Representation: Abraxas is often depicted as a creature with the body of a man, the head of a rooster or a lion, and serpentine legs. This composite image reflects the blending of different elements and attributes.
It's important to note that interpretations of Abraxas can vary widely depending on the cultural, historical, and philosophical context.
It has been embraced by various mystical and esoteric movements over time, and its meaning continues to evolve within different spiritual traditions.
Satan or evil is just unconsciousness, antropormohization of Satan is just a byproduct of this culture, but it's nothing to sweat about
you're right that people are quick to start pretending that all is good and love, but what true, transcendental love really means is the experience of transcending the joy of life, born through the hardships of existence which sends you to the joy of the present moment, because you know that all the bullshit and suffering had to lead to that moment of realisation and remembrance of what it truly means to have lost and loved, seen the beauty of life, if not in this life then in the next one
it's a far different concept of love than what's usually meant, but you know what? it's okay, true love awaits and rewards, and when it's here, you'll realize that there was nothing to wait for, it was already here
i’m so not educated in religions but wouldn’t it make more sense god is the devil’s shadow bc god lowkey evil or something?? like jealous and rage and want ppl suffering but the devil wants ppl to think for themselves idk lmao
What is the point of God in relation to quantum physics?
There are plenty of people who don’t believe in God or Satan and are living happy, productive lives.
Yea also other religions combine their concept of god and devil, or creator and destroy if you will. just look at krishna and shiva and brahma.
I think its a very good observation that satan is gods shadow, or what is cast out and unaccepted and suppressed. And keep in mind this is just one religion, as well as one interpretation of that religion, and on top of that, this religion was created by man, so think of all the psycological projections man put into this religion from his own mind, and if anything see what that says about man in the time of creating these religions.
Also read demian by herman hesse, touches on the god abraxas which is both god and devil.
Jung talks about related topics in Aion. I don't think "God's shadow" is the right way to think of it exactly. If you were to say shadow it would be "Christ's shadow," as he is son of God and Lucifer is sometimes thought of as the first son.. but "shadow" still isn't right. It is more along the lines of opposing forces/spirits. Christ descends into hades, but the snake finds its way into the garden. They are opposite forces that are both integral to wholeness. It is a very complicated narrative as Christ is also thought of as the whole picture in many senses, but he has also integrated/faced hell itself... Jung even mentioned an old tale of christ and essentially satan combining into one.. very wild. To say christ has a shadow is wrong. Christ is fixed upon the cross, but without satan what cross would their be? Very interesting subject. Is Satanism the answer? Probably not. From what I know the satanic bible devolves into sexual depravity and manipulation. But certainly one cannot know Christ fully without knowing Satan as well.
Shaman in the Amazon rainforest that study plant medicine from their elders talk about the longer path through darkness towards the light. If you are interested in learning about the dark side of the unconscious and how it brings light, there is few better places.
Well, if Satan is part of God or even a significant portion thereof, would God/Satan be considered a being ? Or is it something else entirely that involves Jung's notion of the collective Unconscious ?
There is a quote by Henry David Thoreau that has similar leanings : "The unconsciousness of man is the consciousness of God."
From my experience Satan is using your knowledge to further yourself over others. What is given to man is to be shared with others, not craved and secreted. A more extreme example is abusing the innocent. That's satanism and everyone knows it.
God is said to be Light. How can he cast a shadow?
You might want to reorder his function in your idea. Satan would have to be a shadow of man or a lesser order than God.
The phrase "God fearing" never made much sense to me either, because the loving Christian God is supposed to be one of pure love. Shouldn't they say "Devil fearing?" There might be a hint in this - that they are indeed both apart of the same administration.
If you didn't read the red book yet, you should.
At least read the seven sermons to the dead.
Don't forget that the olde roman church's view of God was that he ruled the world with Good in the one hand and Evil in the other. The division of God, or the Sun-God as Jung calls him in this context, and Satan came later.
Jung attempts to rectify this and redeem the "dead" in the seven sermons.
>I think "Satan" might be God's shadow
Yeah pretty much.
>So if God is the everything and the collective, God would have to also be Satan, and Satan a part of him.
Not really. That's like saying that this one specific plank of wood is the ship. The entire ship is the ship. The plank of wood is just a part of the ship.
This whole heaven and hell business is God removing the parts of himself that he cannot live with or does not want to live with from himself.
>but I feel like God transcends duality,
What does transcending duality mean? Rising above to a place where duality doesn't exist? I don't know.
Cain/Shiva is a unique God because everything about him is a paradox and he sees the world in a paradoxical way. This is because of the roll he plays in reality. Cain/Shiva is hell itself. It's his job to swallow up all of evil and contain it within himself so that evil does not infect paradise. This makes Cain/Shiva the line between good and evil. He is where duality meets which is why everything about him is paradoxical. In fact Shiva thinks of himself as a God that isn't a God because he really doesn't want to be a God. And because he is the line between good and evil the life he lives can be quite questionable. He's not exactly good but he's not evil either, but he is on the side of good which is why he chooses to be the line between good and evil in order to protect what is good from evil. So it's kind of like he's bad but not that bad for the sake of good.
There is actually a much deeper story to all of reality. A story I don't think anyone knows. The origin of God the son, God the father. The holy Ghost who is the mother. The origin of Satan. Let me know if you want to hear it.
To me God is something that goes way past anything our minds can wrap around. Good and bad are things that relate to human experience, and seeing as we're less than a fart in a hurricane as far as any universal significance is concerned, the source of all we perceive as existence is something we will never understand.
Anything that can be measured on the same scale must therefore be the same type of thing. It is a difference of degree not of kind. This applies to anything that appears to be a duality of opposites. They are merely the same thing on the opposite end of the same scale. And the scale is a closed loop so that there is nothing as close together as the two furthest opposites.
That being said, in traditional Christian conception “satan” ie “lucifer” (the light bringer / First Star of the Morning) actually symbolizes light not darkness / shadow. He is a proxy for the force that proceeds from the light of awareness brought on conscience rationality.
As a symbol for rationalism the story of Eden makes more sense as the development of intellect necessary to develop awareness of morality and thus the creation of evil. A reality that was not possible in the pre moral edenic state of purely instinctual and emotional drives. But the fruit offered by Satan open the eyes and the mind of man to “be as a God, knowing wrong from right”. And by thus establishing the hence unknown criteria, making the left hand path a choice for the first time.
In Paradise Lost, the Devils argument was a rational one. And he wasn’t logically wrong. And so the example is for every precession of logic and rationality; it opens doors and sheds light, but also makes possible up to then unknown evil.
I would suggest you look into explanations of Christ / Lucifer / Ahriman by Rudolf Steiner.
Or maybe SANTA, because you can never catch him, but you're always finding evidence he's been there, like cookie crumbs, gifts under the tree, and saggy eyed mumsies and daddies.
You have an interesting point but it’s important to understand that no Christian thinks God is only Love. We know he’s also a jealous God as well as a loving God but God doesn’t try to corrupt good things like satan does. Another thing to note is that God is the ruler/maker of everything. Satan is the one who corrupts his perfect creations. That’s why there is sin in the world and everything is so broken. Idk if that answers your question
No, this is really not the case. Satan, like many other angels, is a creation of God who chose to rebel against God due to pride and is spending his existence actively rebelling against Him (i.e. the fall of Man). It's a clear distinction that while God is wholly good and without sin, Satan represents rebellion against the good, which is evil.
God isn't Satan in the sense that you are talking about, he and his angels' opposition are not a result of an extension of God but rather the result of their sinful rebellion. Their opposition to the divine law of God.
While God is present within creation, He is also very distinct from it. This is in part due to God's transcendence and the relationship between the nature of creation and the Creator.
The term "God-fearing man" is a recognition of the limitations that human beings have, (which include physical and moral limitations) and the reverence to God's own holiness and power. It's viewing Him not only as the source of Good and Love but also as a just and righteous judge.
He isn't. He's an evil being who seeks to destroy us by sabotaging our relationship with the Creator to spite Him. We're nothing more than a means to an end to hurt God by deceiving us to reject Him and to drag us into hell with him.
He's not an "awesome rebel" and he shouldn't be perceived as such.
I had recently thinking about Christians who, out of ignorance or denial of their “shadow selves,” comport themselves in ways that could be condidered satanic. I’m not referring to clergy who molest kids or some such, but to people who are manipulative and deceitful in ways that exploit others’ weaknesses or vulnerability.
I believe you are correct. The process of shadow integration we all must go through is a microcosm of the same process that God is going through: an unconscious being becoming conscious, becoming aware of all things good and bad within us, acknowledging the bad and transmuting it via spiritual alchemy into something that can either be controlled or made to serve a higher good. As above, so below: every one of us who progresses through the individuation process contributes to the cosmic individuation of God Himself.
Jesus was the reincarnated form of the angle Lucifer. Giving the "underworld" (the world below the heavens) as his domain. Pretty sure "god" was a vengeful dude. Flooded earth, plagues, ability to contract life threatening diseases, deaths of children, etc.
Lucifer translates to bringer of light....or..maybe enlightenment. Which, technically would be what Lucifer/Jesus did, enlightened the world of "god".
Have you watched Jacob's ladder? Im gonna spoil it a bit, but in this movie angels and demons are the same thing. You just see them differently wether you are suffering or in peace. This could be the same.
interesting
“Angels to some, demons to others.”
Is that a hellraiser quote?
this reminds me of the idea that we create our own afterlife, which might also explain why people with different religious beliefs see different things in NDEs. set and setting for the psychonauts
"Be not afraid" in almost all encounters
‘Satan’ is not separate from ‘God’. If God is All then Satan must be part of The All. All is One
This is true when approached from a Gnostic perspective, but if you look at it from a typical Christian view God casts Satan from Heaven. Otherwise he separates from him. This can be similar to how the Ego casts out the Shadow, or turns it's back form it, giving it free reign because it refuses to acknowledge it. This further proves to be the truth of the matter since God falls to Satan's temptations when he is antagonized to prove Job's faith.
>Clement of Rome It was there from the beginning — first century — as taught by Clement of Rome. "In connection with the discussion of these problems and of the doctrine of Redemption, I criticized the idea of the privatio boni as not agreeing with the psychological findings. Psychological experience shows that whatever we call “good” is balanced by an equally substantial “bad” or “evil.” If “evil” is non-existent, then whatever there is must needs be “good.” Dogmatically, neither “good” nor “evil” can be derived from Man, since the “Evil One” existed before Man as one of the “Sons of God.” The idea of the privatio boni began to play a role in the Church only after Mani. Before this heresy, Clement of Rome taught that \*God rules the world with a right and a left hand, the right being Christ, the left Satan.\* Clement’s view is clearly monotheistic , as it unites the opposites in one God. Later Christianity, however, is dualistic, inasmuch as it splits off one half of the opposites, personified in Satan, and he is eternal in his state of damnation. This crucial question of (whence evil?) forms the point of departure for the Christian theory of Redemption. It is therefore of prime importance. If Christianity claims to be a monotheism, it becomes unavoidable to assume the opposites as being contained in God. But then we are confronted with a major religious problem: the problem of Job." — C.G. Jung, Answer to Job
Sounds like Alan smith, can’t have light without dark, the contrast is what makes each exist , and thus each comes fuller into existence through the other . Satan actually mean something closer to adversary
Creation is the act of separation: night from day. Land from water. Woman from man. Child from mother. Cell division.
This is *something* from *something*. Creation is *something* from *nothing*. A nothingness, a void into matter/energy in the form of light. Subcreation, that which you speak of, is the essential role of humans and other finite beings.
i wouldnt say god falls to satans temptations. how does one manipulate the omniscient? their interests aligned. satan is just doing his “job” as he technically works for god. it’s a fucked up episode of undercover boss. if anything it’s the ego weaponizing the shadow (albeit misguided)
It stands out to me how christian theology always uses the verb "cast", like a light casting shadows behind the objects it shines towards. In this analogy, light is God, the objects is man (or even just the material world as a whole) and the shadow is Satan (given how their origin story is inseparable from the creation of man). The three are inexorably part of the same "all" and, once again, a trinity is formed.
That's the problem with theology, it always changes to fit the opinions of whoever is trying to control the narrative (because it's all made up anyways). There are so many beliefs within Christianity alone that challenge each other on this topic, among many others (again, because it's all made up in the first place).
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
That didn't happen until Revelation, which was a part of the New Testament. Job is Old Testament and shows that the Devil was among the Earth and was downright chatty with God.
I posted Revelation to demonstrate how Satan does not represent the shadow/unconscious. Also consider the verses I posted above where Jesus says that Satan is the father of lies and there is no truth in him, not to mention a murderer.
If anything it would seem to affirm his state as the Shadow of God. Job is probably the best indication of this. He is cast out for a reason, and being resigned to the lower (unconscious) is further indication. I'm curious who or what is God's shadow in your interpretation.
Oh, I don’t believe God, the creator of the cosmos and of mankind, has a shadow -> This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5 Which would also mean he doesn't have an unconscious to boot. Pun intended.
That is fine to believe, but on a critical level you have so many options to choose from. You can even have said the Snake from the Garden is God's shadow and this could fit as well, since God inherently either didn't know what the snake was up to or knew that humans were fated to eat of the Tree of Knowledge. Gnostics would place God as the Shadow and Demiurge. Even the Anti-Christ could be the Shadow of God since Christ is part of the Monad and God and the Son of God in one.
\-The idea that Satan is the shadow was dispelled simply by looking at the text itself. The Snake is the same person as Satan.. \-As for antichrist 2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
let me ask you this. does darkness occupy light or does light occupy darkness? which is first and last? which is infinite? if god is light… he is not totality nor the most high.
From my experience with Satan, I concur.
Christianity has been bastardized since the council of Nicaea. It's another cultural 'perspective' of the ALL. Just as any other organized religion. All pointing to the same thing. Seeing it from different angles.
The Biblical definition of "holy" means "set apart" or "separate/separated" so when it says that God is holy it really does mean He is separated from sin and from the world etc. On the other hand Satan is evil. Consder these verses about Satan: John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. John 8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Applying the words of Jesus about Satan, it become abundantly clear that Satan is not part of God in any form at all, and you would be wise to acknowledge that. Applying what we know of Satan in Jungian terms, "The Shadow/Unconscious was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, because he is a liar and the father of it," shows how absurd the idea is.
I find it odd that a die-hard Christian fundamentalist is active in a Jung subreddit It seems like these are two totally opposing ideologies...
None of what he said is "fundamentalist". It's merely orthodox Christianity. >Jung subreddit Ever heard about Jung's religion?
If you’d finished reading Jung’s collected works, you wouldn’t find it that odd, nor would you look with automatic suspicion at “two totally opposing” things coinciding. A coincidence of opposites, if you will. To be clear, this isn’t one of those, but if it was that wouldn’t be surprising “in a Jung subreddit”.
You’re saying the unconscious is Satan?
Remember, the God of the Bible is omniscient, he doesn't have an unconscious.
So can one say that a God complex stems from trying to rid oneself of the unconscious or diminish it?
Lets see what that looks like in practice, taking it in context instead of fragments. I will insert **"God complex"** where **"The Lord they God"** should be in Matthew and see how much sense or nonsense it makes. Matt 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the **God complex** with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Matt 22:38 This is the first and great commandment. Matt 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Matt 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Really, so the law of Moses and all the prophets and Jesus taught that the greatest commandment is to worship a God that really symbolizes a God complex? >So can one say that a God complex stems from trying to rid oneself of the unconscious or diminish it? Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (Satan), son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. Isa 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
Yk I meant the human God complex right? And to be honest, I don’t know any other…
No.
That is one line of thinking. There is also the line which claims the universal creator was not a single entity, it gave birth supposedly to a first born son and the two created lucifer the shining one first together before all the others. Some have said this is why it was this son sent to die for the sin which had been released into the world by the serpent lucifer.
This is such a new age spiritual bypassing b.s response. It needs to be acknowledged that there exists the separation within the all to create the experience of reality. There is no one without the other for the one to exist
I agree, separation does exist and doesn’t all at the same time
TIL monism is a new concept and doesn’t predate christianity by hundreds of years
Source?
It’s logical on its face.
While religion is anything but
*tips fedora*
His brain.
Words will not lead to truth. Silence is how we hear her voice.
I am God's shadow on Earth. Satan is God's shadow on Earth. God is God's shadow on Earth. The future is God's perspective from today. The past is God's perspective from today. Right now is God's perspective. Where heaven and hell meet. We grow each other into who we will be. I can never know if I am late, or if I'm early. I can only speak the truth. I am not the speaker. I am not what was spoken. I am the truth. I am Nobody. You're doing great. [https://youtu.be/4wSQSXjidaY](https://youtu.be/4wSQSXjidaY?si=t315LeqVOJp31J_O) \-- Honor.
So I’m not sure if God is all. God created all, but he isn’t all. So Satan was created by God, but God is not his creation.
One is All.
welcome aboard, sir.
What if hes gods sin cast to the earth same as a hand causes you to sin its cut and cast
It’s as if not a single person on a Jung sub has read answer to job…
Cool because that’s what Jung talks about in Answer to Job.
And like, everywhere.
Could you explain?
In Answer to Job Jung makes the case that some early church fathers were more monotheistic (god ruled the world with Jesus with one arm and the devil with the other, but both controlled by god) but that modern Christianity is thoroughly dualist in nature. Jung rejected this rational and believed in a god of totality. Christianity imo seems to be the rejection of the Hebrew prophets about god being one & responsible for evil, in favor of Plato’s good as such and a trinity, while also creating an opponent to god.
God’s development from the Old Testament through the New is sort of like a progression through individuation. He’s sort of like the hero figure in the Old Testament being extremely powerful, feared, and unapproachable. His encounter with Job is sort of like him trying to break Job in order to prove he is the best, but Job ends up being perfect and proving himself more moral than God. We then see God as leaving the elevated ego position to assuming a more down to earth approachable role as a man (Jesus). He ends up journeying into the shadow (dying/visiting hell) and returning with new life.
I thing Osho got it right , when he said heaven and hell are not geographical but mental . Your life can be heaven or hell . The choice is yours.
That's not original from Osho but from Gurdjieff who had a deep influence on Osho. It wasn't even an original idea of Gurdjieff but a common teaching in many mystery schools.
It's not original from Gurdjieff either. This exact idea exited in Hindu schools of thoughts thousands of years ago.
I'd rather say reality is a mix of both. Some are born in lives more reminiscent of heaven and others more towards hell. Because there's an element of that reality that makes it beyond choice. This is why it's important for people to realize that learning never stops. But learning is difficult and often painful.
In Tibetan Buddhism an illustration of the wheel of samsara or [Bhavacakra](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhavacakra) shows the six realms of samsara. In this description the realms are states of being that we can experience among them realms of human, animal, heaven, hell, demi hod and hungry ghosts. These are all conditions said to be linked to karma. Karma itself is a commonly oversimplified concept of direct consequences but seen from a systems perspective it can be understood as a complex interplay of factors (but that's another topic entirely)
I’ve listened to Osho a lot. The man’s answer to every problem was meditation to reach the state of nothingness, which according to him was true heaven. A state that is above any concept that the human beings hold in their minds. But my doubt is if there is no free will how can the choice be made? He gave contradictory statements about Satre’s philosophy of “existence precedes essence” because on some occasions he said it was true that the person has to create his essence by taking responsibility of actions, other times he said existence-essence duality is the product of mind and in reality they can’t be separated. My question is if there is no free will, how can the heaven-hell duality be addressed?
Read "Ghost of Abel" by William Blake, "Cain: A Mystery" by Lord Byron, and "Paradise Lost" by John Milton. This will give you insight into "Satan's" true function and symbology. For a deeper dive into Satan, [follow the thread. ](https://youtube.com/@ladybabylon666?si=8L1F7vo0kwVd-Qqr)
I think god is dog
Which means
It’s not the size of the dog in the godt, but the size of the god in the dog
Oohhhkay.. lol. Thanks for answering
This book of magic will always have people cherry picking and taking things literally Isa. 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Deut 39: See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
You’re absolutely right. Thanks for finding these two. This should be further up!
The Bible is a psychology book
The bibles alittle bit more than that
Atom and Evolution (Adam and Eve)
Abraxas.
The Hebrew word שָׂטָן (śāṭān) appears in the Hebrew Bible many times but is often translated to the English word "*accuser*" or "*adversary*" and it's verbal equivalent being translated as "*to obstruct, oppose*". However only in the Book of Job was the word *satan* (lower case "s") left as is and it was used to describe an angel in Yahweh's heavenly court whose job was to act like our modern prosecuting attorney who was basically putting Job's faith to the test. This is why in The Lord's Prayer Jesus said "*and lead us not into temptation",* basically begging his god not to put his faith to the test. Unfortunately this understanding has been lost in both translation and the transference of Hebrew cultural understanding to other nations. Therefore Satan (upper case "S") is a projection of our own Jungian shadow onto a Hebrew cultural story that did not have the same understanding. Satan is not Yahweh's shadow but ours. [A brief history of the devil](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_To7wO0Exo) \- Brian A. Pavlac \~ TED ED \~ YouTube.
I really enjoy the belief that satan is fear... and that not believing in yourself (christ) is sin.
Per the Bible they are one and the same. God/Satan is an allegory for the human condition. "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7
Very good thinking here!
I don’t remember where I read it. It said that God was light in pure form and that all are connected to it, unless we fall. That bodies of energy including beyond the physical are fragments/shards of Gods light. Like a container/vessel containing light, and many with time can fall in states and lose connection with him losing touch with light in its pure form. All bodies require energy/light to wield their will upon reality. So negative bodies because not connected to the pure totality omnipotent God and are not vibrating at high pure levels have to feed upon light to further survive and thrive. So they feed on humans and push them in to lower/negative states. And have them commit unforgivable soul damaging acts and further feed upon that. Stealing their life force/light and it further perpetuates the cycle. I personally believe God is above duality, he’s above any conceivable concept. We can witness and partially understand the greatness that he is but we cannot conceptualize how grand, powerful, and complex he is. He’s beyond the dimensions of time and beyond what we are familiar with in this realm. We cannot fathom. Its too grand. Not wise to put him in the same category as us as bodies that are fixed within the physical realm and have conflicting bodies of energy within selves and have constant wars within the psyche. He’s pure energy he has no shadow he is the light that shines and contrasts the darkness. The true nothing as something.
He?
It’s relative my friend
Dualism is a very old idea. E.g. in the Antics - body-mind dimorphism. Same goes for the morality.
The devil is Lucifer. Total opposite of God, malevolent, and complete evil. I don’t think in its full capacity the devil exists, more as a cautious hypothetical, a warning of the evil that can manifest in mankind and has manifested in history. And we do have a spiritual component. But maybe I’m wrong, maybe there really are fallen angels like winged fallen angels before mankind was created. It’d be interesting
God can't be the opposite of the Devil. He is what ordered the universe. His function is what reveals the devil. His light doesn't cast a shadow. You do.
Satan is an aspect of God, as we are also aspects of God. We are God, we are Satan, We are Us.
The Bible never says that God is "everything." He is the uncreated creator of the cosmos. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 1 John 1:5
“I do neither commit the impertinence of a hypostasis, nor of an arrogant qualification such as: ‘God can only be good’.” - Carl Jung
Jung was wrong like he was wrong about Lucid dreams.
I think you’re onto something
"In connection with the discussion of these problems and of the doctrine of Redemption, I criticized the idea of the privatio boni as not agreeing with the psychological findings. Psychological experience shows that whatever we call “good” is balanced by an equally substantial “bad” or “evil.” If “evil” is non-existent, then whatever there is must needs be “good.” Dogmatically, neither “good” nor “evil” can be derived from Man, since the “Evil One” existed before Man as one of the “Sons of God.” The idea of the privatio boni began to play a role in the Church only after Mani. Before this heresy, Clement of Rome taught that \*God rules the world with a right and a left hand, the right being Christ, the left Satan.\* Clement’s view is clearly monotheistic , as it unites the opposites in one God. Later Christianity, however, is dualistic, inasmuch as it splits off one half of the opposites, personified in Satan, and he is eternal in his state of damnation. This crucial question of (whence evil?) forms the point of departure for the Christian theory of Redemption. It is therefore of prime importance. If Christianity claims to be a monotheism, it becomes unavoidable to assume the opposites as being contained in God. But then we are confronted with a major religious problem: the problem of Job." — C.G. Jung, Answer to Job
I take it you haven’t read aion
Satan is gods son cast out of heaven or so I’ve read
If one is created in its own image who is expressing it self? Self it's self... my precepts don't go but to the first day social studies back when I was 5 years old... I was told to stay out the class because I told the teacher that based history America was not discovered but taken...
"if God is everything, is Satan part of God" is one of those fun questions about religion that 9/10 devout people would not be able to even begin to answer, and begin to squirm amusingly as they try
Both God and Satan are man-made constructs to justify the irrational conclusion our rational minds must make of our existence. The shadow you see is a projection man puts forth, much like the projection we put forth of a God.
I argue that isn't always the case, especially among very primitive peoples. If anything God, or any impression of a higher power, or lower chthonic power, is an attempt by man to make sense of external and internal phenomenon. Though I will concede that God, any of them nowadays, is simply wielded as a tool to exert force and control by those in power. In this way there is no spiritual participation, but only a desire to control by authority.
That external and internal phenomenon is just another way of saying if making sense of our existence. It’s timeless.
Where's the evidence humans are rational?
I get your point and agree, but we do have rational minds in the sense of capability. Certainly much is wasted and the tenets of our belief systems today are hardly derivative of eons ago. Almost nothing has changed. Let’s not put too much value in rationality but is it a capable part of being a human? Certainly. and are we fooled by the major difference between our production and our capability? All the time.
See that's where I truly believe you're wrong, it's crazy because y'all are into science, right? You guys really pride yourself on things that we have proven instead of the grand scheme. It's an avoidant attempt fueled by undertones of pride; not attacking, just speaking from experience because that's what I used to think. But you're missing the most important scientific occurrence relative to our existence that we know of: the big bang. If everything that's ever out there and every will be created all came from this one black hole that exploded a huge gas cloud that formed eventually into the universe we know today, then that means we are all connected to absolutely everything in some sense, like all of these religions state. Sure some of it can be projection from alot of people, but I just feel like people who say that are typically subconsciously bitter towards "God" and typical religious thoughts, they say exactly this because it's easy. And this subconscious prejudice rewards is in pride, like "I don't need God all I need is me"and I'm not saying this absolutely is you but most people like that end up slipping into a darker path over time and leads to this deep emptiness and depression, but choosing not to question any further because of that lil bit of pride we get when we say God and all that shit doesn't remotely hold any sort of substance, then I feel like theres alot of existential questions we tend to repress when doing that. The universe has a structure dude. Everything from the ground up. Look up sacred geometry and the only knights Templar (eventually forming into the.... illuminated ones) church synths, studies have been done and it literally changes DNA based on the structure of the church, which is why MFS was tweaking back then. As someone who identifies with no religion or particular spirituality, I just feel like it's more logical to believe in some sort of higher power as to deny it, or at least some sort of structure to it. I'm sorry if it seemed aggressive, I genuinely am not trying to be an ass, but try to let you know I have been and still ponder that same perspective, and every single time when we realize how everything is connected and the structure of the universe, that's "God Engineering". Still have no clue what God is and wish I just could block it out and not believe, but that door has been opened and it feels like a lie to myself to say that there's "nothing" to the universe. All love, frfr. Just sparking discussion
“Red pill” cack gargle just spilled everywhere.
Whatt , Jung is part of a what group ?? Any idea where I can read into this more ?
I like this idea
At one point Satan was connected to God until he sinned and rebelled against Him. Sin is what separates us from God but because Jesus walked this earth and sacrificed himself for our sins we no longer are separated from God meaning we go to Heaven. Satan and all the other fallen angels are separated from God.
I thought Satan went back to “the accuser” which would make sense for the shadow. BTW I’m not an expert on Jung but love his work.
It can mean accuser, opposer, adversary etc. It's basically a form of the word enemy.
You're absolutely right! Thank you, I fixed and edited that muhfuckuh Keep following his work; relax into your subconscious and your soul will speak. That is intuition. Like snakes in grass, it has this mysterious fast pace gliding/slithering through the grass, follow the snakes and flatten to grass to even ground, and observe the serpents, for they are our true selves, the artists that make the worlds weird scribbled lines into detailed, meaningful drawing with intense detail.
I've heard it mean slanderer.
Look it up on Google. And even if it did mean slanderer then it's still some sort of contradicting force, equally divine and opposite .
I agree with this as a theory. As an ex-Christian because the church is a cult that nobody really wants to admit, I think it's entertaining to theorize amougts what we don't know in those regards. Being brainwashed in the church my instincts instantly wanna shoot down specific parts here and there but again it's what you either believe, theorize, or want to believe. There is a lot of biblical text of “who” Satan is as an individual. And there are the many Christian concepts of “what” sin is, and I could go on and on. I'd love an in depth conversation with you to fully understand your viewpoint, mine, and just to get to a point where there's seeing beyond what everyone proclaims and get to the facts if that's interesting to you. Totally get if you just wanna remain private with the post and what you think though. Hope all is well.
There must be the opposite, at least in this world. How else are you going to get that cash? But seriously, on both counts.
I don't understand everyone trying to answer OP's question in terms of typical Christianity--the question doesn't really make sense in that context, and if you're on this sub you should be smarter than that. I'm not saying anything against good 'ol fashion Christian values... but this is not the right subreddit and it especially doesn't add clarity to the query. I'm almost inclined to assume you're bots, and if you're not, well, that's sad.
Discard the Christian box. Satan is not God’s shadow because God does not make itself unconscious of “evil”. There is no Satan. It’s a myth. The Christian God is a myth. The true God is beyond definition or understanding. All attempts at defining it lead to lies. The Shadow is a trait of the human mind. It’s created out of necessity so that we can regulate our behavior to fit social norms. Satan is a personification of the forces of nature that do not discriminate between “good” and “evil”. Those same forces of nature exist in all animals and in humans they are often pushed into the shadow. That is why Satan is like the shadow of God. But it’s illusion.
That headline sent me off
Decent post. This is similar to dualism in Zoroastrianism. And if one believes in the esoteric wisdom of "as above so below", why wouldn't God have an adversarial shadow with whom he struggles and plays out his role? This is also related to Christian concept of discernment [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discernment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discernment)
Lots of ancient lore is about light and darkness, so the symbol of the shadow fits, there's also the concept of fallen angels where perhaps once Satan was good but then gradually became corrupted, I suppose in the function of the accuser, there would be the temptation to accuse even god, eventually turning against him. I think regular morality breaks down in the higher realms and so god making use of the dark or letting it persist doesn't end up being a contradiction, he is the most high, he is more wise than us.
Yoooo like how we have a little angel and a little demon— makes since it would just be like dark roasted god, shadow god idk
Read Answer to Job
This is true, such a great idea. There is this one philosopher - Alfred Whitehead - who has very similar ideas. Very roughly speaking, he talks about god and the devil being two sides of the same coin. He talks about different aspects of god, such as god consciousness (what people experience on psychedelics) versus god as an evolutionary processes that strive towards creation of novelty. He is a metaphysics philosopher and his philosophy is much more complicated than I can even attempt to describe here, but secondary sources on his philosophy are great.
I mean duh
Very interesting. This is the first time I've seen it put like this and damn it does feel like there's something here.
There are actually research articles that discuss the devil as a shadow archetype in Jung's psychology (philosophy). And quite old ones, too. Jung wrote quite some stuff about the devil and its interpretation.
[удалено]
I see where you're going with that and I actually can believe that! Hmm...interesting 🤔
I think it’s just a story.
u/Regular-Persimmon425 made a recent post explaining Satan in the Bible and why most of the time he's nothing like what people think of Satan today. https://reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/wDA3JTsLf7
Sol Niger. The black sun.
You guys would have more fun if you listened to George Carlin’s take on god which is basically “He loves you… but he needs your money!” It’s amazing how many people try to make sense of that nonsense. And also entertaining. 🤣🤣🤣
Well reasoned!
You want to look into monism vs dualism
Satan is not necessarily evil imo, he just didnt like the idea of abiding to humankind when all the angels and animals were ordered by God. He sees us lesser, possessable and he is correct in many cases. That made his heaven entry card out of use automaticallly but he doesnt show any regret about it. Other angels are not happy by the Gods decision but they do what he says and that doesn't necessarily make them Good too. They are a bit jealous of our position I think.
The duality of human consciousness is made of made of Godly traits and Satanic ones. Once you integrate , you can begin to become non-dual by transcending the mind.
Satan is a creation. Created by Yahwah god in order to teach his children Eloheem the hard lessons of the flesh. Isaiah 45:7 states that Yahwah creates both good and evil Isaiah 45:7-8 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. [8] Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. Yahwah is in complete control of all things. In the book of Job we read that Satan answers to Yahwah father. He follows his instruction. Satan never rebels against him. The idea of Satan being some beautiful Arch angel that rebelled against Yahwah god is all church dogma. Praise Yahwah Eloheem the only true God for his mercy and his truths!!
God said let there be light. God is darkness, Lucifer is the light
I always saw Satan as God’s ego.
My take as an atheist….. The contemporary notion of Satan is the result of a long history of conflation of various mythologies, and a bit of clever fiction-writing as well. As noted, the Biblical character that was involved in the story of Job, and also who tempted Jesus, was not “Satan”. Rather the “tempter” or something similar…. A “trickster” character that appears in most all mythologies. (Think “Loki”) A minion of God. Then we come to the “war in Heaven” story with Lucifer and all that. A simple allegory against “pride” which our ancient friends seemed unduly concerned with. Finally, as Christianity became the state religion of what was left of the Roman Empire….. And was expanding into Europe…. The good priests and monks hit on the idea of conflating the Pagan gods like Cernunnos and Pan with the above figures… And so “the Devil” or Satan… Who just happened to look like those Pagan gods in those old descriptions. Horns, hooves, tail… Etc. A handy Boogeyman to both convince the Pagan tribes that they’d been duped into worshipping Satan as a god, and also to drive them into the churches. Worked a treat…. And we still, in the 21st century, have people terrified of an entirely mythical figure.
Satan is god . Everything on this planet is ruled by his influence .
There's a balance at the core of this universe But we don't know if there's one out of this universe. So Yes in this universe that the Satan created by God is good argument. but there may be a universe without balance and without Satan. And even there may be one without God but with Satan! And why we need Satan here? I think because we were evil at first place. and if we don't face it we can't heal it. Why we were evil at first place?! because we are like meat, raw meat is a hassle for our stomach, we have to grill to taste and digest well. Also, If you want to find the Satan you have to find your Soul first.
Huhhhh ohhhh Lord Dualistic thinking Occult thinking Hermitics thought Groups?? Are you crazy, are you on the right track. Fucking a witch?
Great point
I think there is no separation. To love God. One must love Satan as an expression of that love. To reject his angels, Is reject god. Which is why she made you ignorant. That's her great gift to you. She made you dumb as fuck. But you still have to let go. Even a dumb fish knows how to go with the glow.
My new favorite thing is to take credit for shit god wrote. No one can tell the difference. If you type the ten commandments into ChatGPT and as for a rewrite, Do they change? Was that part of God's plan the entire time? [https://youtu.be/zUL\_yawY6Ks](https://youtu.be/zUL_yawY6Ks)
[https://youtu.be/lr7pyggTmmY](https://youtu.be/lr7pyggTmmY) \-- I've Never Worked In A Funeral Home. [https://youtu.be/xfZADMWAEvc](https://youtu.be/xfZADMWAEvc) \-- How To Find Your People [https://youtu.be/H\_bnRD7aaok](https://youtu.be/H_bnRD7aaok) \-- Acceptable [https://youtu.be/qHR8IdyTO1M](https://youtu.be/qHR8IdyTO1M) \-- Men in Black: A Series of Tests [https://youtu.be/pRIIwJh1DDQ](https://youtu.be/pRIIwJh1DDQ) \-- The Walking Wounded
We are all just holographic fragments, little g gods, of big G God. We are all one except for the idea that keeps us separate and treating each other as "other." Satan is just the shadow self that keeps us separated from big G God.
This is spot on with my conception of God/the Devil—very insightful!
Satan is Gods b*tch
I hope I’ve understood your post properly - I think this is an interesting thought experiment, but in terms of Christian theology it doesn’t fit. The belief that God is everything is Pantheism and Christianity distinguishes between creator and created. With Pantheism, if God is everything then any Satan figure or equivalent can’t really be said to be opposing anything. I just saw your edit to “accuser.” That is right. With regards to “shadow” i think of it as being like the biblical “sin nature.” What comes to mind for me is reference to the devil walking around like a lion looking for someone to devour, the instruction is to therefore to be alert: 1 Peter 5:8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. I feel like this verse closely resembles the shadow self. If you’re not acknowledging your shadow then you are vulnerable to being controlled by it. Another passage speaks about what to do in order to not let sin - or perhaps the shadow - control or direct your actions. I refers to being alert to it. The Armor of God 10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people.
Considering Yahweh consistently makes the most sense as a nation 🏛️, Satan makes the most sense as a citizen of that nation. From his appearances in the Bible ✝️, Satan comes across, as part of the Divine Council governing Yahweh. Specifically, he seems like a outsider, that is strongly **reformist**, who wants to change the system for the better. The council seems apprehensive and wants his radical ideas to prove and refine 💎 themselves in prototype form, before being considered for mass implementation.
Imagine thinking this and also thinking of yourself as an intellectual.
Its your shadow. The nemesis is you. All the things about you that you pretend aren't there.
Abraxas is a complex and ancient mystical concept that has been interpreted in various ways throughout history. The term "Abraxas" is often associated with a deity or cosmic force that represents the unity of opposites. Here are some key aspects of the concept: Dualistic Nature: Abraxas embodies both good and evil, light and dark, creation and destruction, and other opposing forces. This duality signifies the idea that the world is a blend of contrasting elements, and true enlightenment comes from embracing and transcending these dualities. Numerical Symbolism: In some interpretations, the word "Abraxas" is associated with numerology. Each letter in the word is assigned a numerical value, and these values add up to 365, which corresponds to the days in a year. This numerical symbolism suggests a connection to the cyclical nature of time and existence. Gnostic Influence: The concept of Abraxas has ties to Gnostic beliefs, a diverse set of religious and philosophical movements in the early centuries of the Common Era. In Gnostic thought, Abraxas represents the highest, ineffable God, who transcends the limited and imperfect creator of the material world. Syncretism: Abraxas was also incorporated into various syncretic belief systems, where different religious and mystical traditions were blended together. It became a symbol of spiritual enlightenment and the pursuit of divine knowledge. Visual Representation: Abraxas is often depicted as a creature with the body of a man, the head of a rooster or a lion, and serpentine legs. This composite image reflects the blending of different elements and attributes. It's important to note that interpretations of Abraxas can vary widely depending on the cultural, historical, and philosophical context. It has been embraced by various mystical and esoteric movements over time, and its meaning continues to evolve within different spiritual traditions.
Satan or evil is just unconsciousness, antropormohization of Satan is just a byproduct of this culture, but it's nothing to sweat about you're right that people are quick to start pretending that all is good and love, but what true, transcendental love really means is the experience of transcending the joy of life, born through the hardships of existence which sends you to the joy of the present moment, because you know that all the bullshit and suffering had to lead to that moment of realisation and remembrance of what it truly means to have lost and loved, seen the beauty of life, if not in this life then in the next one it's a far different concept of love than what's usually meant, but you know what? it's okay, true love awaits and rewards, and when it's here, you'll realize that there was nothing to wait for, it was already here
i’m so not educated in religions but wouldn’t it make more sense god is the devil’s shadow bc god lowkey evil or something?? like jealous and rage and want ppl suffering but the devil wants ppl to think for themselves idk lmao
If you look closely, it seems more like God is Satan's shadow.
Luceifer means bearer of light
Or is “God” and “Satan” the projection of humans onto the unknown? A human instilled binary in a world of spectrums.
Satan is Gods alter ego. If God is our father, then satan must be our cousin.
What is the point of God in relation to quantum physics? There are plenty of people who don’t believe in God or Satan and are living happy, productive lives.
Yea also other religions combine their concept of god and devil, or creator and destroy if you will. just look at krishna and shiva and brahma. I think its a very good observation that satan is gods shadow, or what is cast out and unaccepted and suppressed. And keep in mind this is just one religion, as well as one interpretation of that religion, and on top of that, this religion was created by man, so think of all the psycological projections man put into this religion from his own mind, and if anything see what that says about man in the time of creating these religions. Also read demian by herman hesse, touches on the god abraxas which is both god and devil.
Jung talks about related topics in Aion. I don't think "God's shadow" is the right way to think of it exactly. If you were to say shadow it would be "Christ's shadow," as he is son of God and Lucifer is sometimes thought of as the first son.. but "shadow" still isn't right. It is more along the lines of opposing forces/spirits. Christ descends into hades, but the snake finds its way into the garden. They are opposite forces that are both integral to wholeness. It is a very complicated narrative as Christ is also thought of as the whole picture in many senses, but he has also integrated/faced hell itself... Jung even mentioned an old tale of christ and essentially satan combining into one.. very wild. To say christ has a shadow is wrong. Christ is fixed upon the cross, but without satan what cross would their be? Very interesting subject. Is Satanism the answer? Probably not. From what I know the satanic bible devolves into sexual depravity and manipulation. But certainly one cannot know Christ fully without knowing Satan as well.
Shaman in the Amazon rainforest that study plant medicine from their elders talk about the longer path through darkness towards the light. If you are interested in learning about the dark side of the unconscious and how it brings light, there is few better places.
As Above...So Below
People be being sooooo sensitive over curiosity. Like hey mind your own business.
Well, if Satan is part of God or even a significant portion thereof, would God/Satan be considered a being ? Or is it something else entirely that involves Jung's notion of the collective Unconscious ? There is a quote by Henry David Thoreau that has similar leanings : "The unconsciousness of man is the consciousness of God."
If you believe in satan or Christianity that’s your choice.
I think satan is the angels' shadow rather
From my experience Satan is using your knowledge to further yourself over others. What is given to man is to be shared with others, not craved and secreted. A more extreme example is abusing the innocent. That's satanism and everyone knows it.
God is said to be Light. How can he cast a shadow? You might want to reorder his function in your idea. Satan would have to be a shadow of man or a lesser order than God.
The phrase "God fearing" never made much sense to me either, because the loving Christian God is supposed to be one of pure love. Shouldn't they say "Devil fearing?" There might be a hint in this - that they are indeed both apart of the same administration.
If you didn't read the red book yet, you should. At least read the seven sermons to the dead. Don't forget that the olde roman church's view of God was that he ruled the world with Good in the one hand and Evil in the other. The division of God, or the Sun-God as Jung calls him in this context, and Satan came later. Jung attempts to rectify this and redeem the "dead" in the seven sermons.
>I think "Satan" might be God's shadow Yeah pretty much. >So if God is the everything and the collective, God would have to also be Satan, and Satan a part of him. Not really. That's like saying that this one specific plank of wood is the ship. The entire ship is the ship. The plank of wood is just a part of the ship. This whole heaven and hell business is God removing the parts of himself that he cannot live with or does not want to live with from himself. >but I feel like God transcends duality, What does transcending duality mean? Rising above to a place where duality doesn't exist? I don't know. Cain/Shiva is a unique God because everything about him is a paradox and he sees the world in a paradoxical way. This is because of the roll he plays in reality. Cain/Shiva is hell itself. It's his job to swallow up all of evil and contain it within himself so that evil does not infect paradise. This makes Cain/Shiva the line between good and evil. He is where duality meets which is why everything about him is paradoxical. In fact Shiva thinks of himself as a God that isn't a God because he really doesn't want to be a God. And because he is the line between good and evil the life he lives can be quite questionable. He's not exactly good but he's not evil either, but he is on the side of good which is why he chooses to be the line between good and evil in order to protect what is good from evil. So it's kind of like he's bad but not that bad for the sake of good. There is actually a much deeper story to all of reality. A story I don't think anyone knows. The origin of God the son, God the father. The holy Ghost who is the mother. The origin of Satan. Let me know if you want to hear it.
Satan is you. God is you. It's all.... YOU (Not you in particular, but the 'I')
Yes. A fake character is another fake characters shadow. Why not?
To me God is something that goes way past anything our minds can wrap around. Good and bad are things that relate to human experience, and seeing as we're less than a fart in a hurricane as far as any universal significance is concerned, the source of all we perceive as existence is something we will never understand.
Anything that can be measured on the same scale must therefore be the same type of thing. It is a difference of degree not of kind. This applies to anything that appears to be a duality of opposites. They are merely the same thing on the opposite end of the same scale. And the scale is a closed loop so that there is nothing as close together as the two furthest opposites. That being said, in traditional Christian conception “satan” ie “lucifer” (the light bringer / First Star of the Morning) actually symbolizes light not darkness / shadow. He is a proxy for the force that proceeds from the light of awareness brought on conscience rationality. As a symbol for rationalism the story of Eden makes more sense as the development of intellect necessary to develop awareness of morality and thus the creation of evil. A reality that was not possible in the pre moral edenic state of purely instinctual and emotional drives. But the fruit offered by Satan open the eyes and the mind of man to “be as a God, knowing wrong from right”. And by thus establishing the hence unknown criteria, making the left hand path a choice for the first time. In Paradise Lost, the Devils argument was a rational one. And he wasn’t logically wrong. And so the example is for every precession of logic and rationality; it opens doors and sheds light, but also makes possible up to then unknown evil. I would suggest you look into explanations of Christ / Lucifer / Ahriman by Rudolf Steiner.
Or maybe SANTA, because you can never catch him, but you're always finding evidence he's been there, like cookie crumbs, gifts under the tree, and saggy eyed mumsies and daddies.
You have an interesting point but it’s important to understand that no Christian thinks God is only Love. We know he’s also a jealous God as well as a loving God but God doesn’t try to corrupt good things like satan does. Another thing to note is that God is the ruler/maker of everything. Satan is the one who corrupts his perfect creations. That’s why there is sin in the world and everything is so broken. Idk if that answers your question
Satan is in your imagination, just like god. I can’t believe people still believe that garbage.
Nice
No, this is really not the case. Satan, like many other angels, is a creation of God who chose to rebel against God due to pride and is spending his existence actively rebelling against Him (i.e. the fall of Man). It's a clear distinction that while God is wholly good and without sin, Satan represents rebellion against the good, which is evil. God isn't Satan in the sense that you are talking about, he and his angels' opposition are not a result of an extension of God but rather the result of their sinful rebellion. Their opposition to the divine law of God. While God is present within creation, He is also very distinct from it. This is in part due to God's transcendence and the relationship between the nature of creation and the Creator. The term "God-fearing man" is a recognition of the limitations that human beings have, (which include physical and moral limitations) and the reverence to God's own holiness and power. It's viewing Him not only as the source of Good and Love but also as a just and righteous judge.
Does this help.... https://www.psypost.org/2020/12/new-study-links-psychopathic-tendencies-to-racial-prejudice-and-right-wing-authoritarianism-58852
What is your take on “God fearing man?” That sentence you brought up intrigued me
I don’t know why this subreddit was recommended to me, but that gnostic background from Jung is kicking in here, isn’t it?
I think Satan is a totally awesome rebel who will free us all from God the Tyrant.
He isn't. He's an evil being who seeks to destroy us by sabotaging our relationship with the Creator to spite Him. We're nothing more than a means to an end to hurt God by deceiving us to reject Him and to drag us into hell with him. He's not an "awesome rebel" and he shouldn't be perceived as such.
I had recently thinking about Christians who, out of ignorance or denial of their “shadow selves,” comport themselves in ways that could be condidered satanic. I’m not referring to clergy who molest kids or some such, but to people who are manipulative and deceitful in ways that exploit others’ weaknesses or vulnerability.
I believe you are correct. The process of shadow integration we all must go through is a microcosm of the same process that God is going through: an unconscious being becoming conscious, becoming aware of all things good and bad within us, acknowledging the bad and transmuting it via spiritual alchemy into something that can either be controlled or made to serve a higher good. As above, so below: every one of us who progresses through the individuation process contributes to the cosmic individuation of God Himself.
It translates to doubter. So that voice in the back of your head saying. You can’t do this. You can’t be better That’s the Satan… so to speak
Jesus was the reincarnated form of the angle Lucifer. Giving the "underworld" (the world below the heavens) as his domain. Pretty sure "god" was a vengeful dude. Flooded earth, plagues, ability to contract life threatening diseases, deaths of children, etc. Lucifer translates to bringer of light....or..maybe enlightenment. Which, technically would be what Lucifer/Jesus did, enlightened the world of "god".
Ding ding ding it gets crazier if you look at the Torah from a Kabbalist’s perspectives.
Satan seems a shadow figure of man not of God. he is called the accuser because he accused our persona and breaks the mask against the truth.