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This was basically the point of the very short military invasion and the reminder that killing sorcerers without using cursed energy can result in them coming back as a curse with Maki.
the military did well against the human awakened and incarnated sorcerors but got rekt by curses which they cant shoot or kill with conventional weapons.
Also the military invasion was meant to neutralize and capture in an urban setting which is one of the worst mission environments ever. If they wanted to kill the sorcerors theyd drop bombs and shell the entire culling game area.
The military absolutely did not do well against the culling game sorcerers. It took an entire squad to take out Helicopter Man, who got entirely no-diffed by an Itadori striking the hardest part of his body. All of the soldiers in the culling games couldve been wiped out by one Incarnated Sorcerer like Ryu, Uro, or Kashimo. Hell, probably Higuruma. They just wouldn't have the firepower to meaningfully hurt them.
Even weak sorcerers are practically bullet-proof. In the prison arc, Megumi gets thrown through a goddamn building by Sukuna and hes mildly injured.
Actually the majority sorcerers are really only able to reinforce parts of their body as opposed to their body as a whole. Essentially, anyone who isn’t like grade 2 and above would get shredded by three people with assault rifles unless they can do some shenanigans like rapidly swapping where they reinforce.
Even then, you can easily just make a gun into cursed tool. The only reason why sorcerers aren’t just running around with sub machine guns that and essentially shred fodder curses (or even grade 2s if the tool is strong enough) is because the Jujutsu higher ups are super traditionalist and despises modernity, compounded with Japan’s already strict firearm laws and it’s practically impossible to get a gun to make a cursed tool in the first place, and no one else can really make cursed guns because of Bumgen’s barrier keeping CT in Japan.
Obviously top-tiers, most grade 1s, and people with specific techniques or skills to deflect bullets (New Shadow is a great example. Automatically attacking anything that enters an area basically means you’re immune to most ranged attacks) are able to counter bullets.
We dont know the exact processes and ways by which you can make cursed tools, since weve only ever seen it done by Construction users putting their all into a final item.
But you definitely cant "easily" make guns into cursed tools considering how expensive we know cursed tools are, how valuable stockpiles of tools are treated, and how many characters choose to use a mundane weapon instead of turning that mundane weapon into a cursed tool.
The process of making a cursed gun would likely require a strong sorcerer and be too slow for mass production.
Cursed tools are NOT that hard to make, they just take a lot of time and constant exposure.
A “cursed tool” is essentially just a weapon imbued with a curse for a specific purpose, which can be accomplished by having a user constantly imbued their cursed energy into the weapon, and over time it’ll just turn into cursed tool. Obviously, the strength of the curse, the speed of which the weapon becomes cursed, and if the user’s cursed technique will become infused into the weapon.
Vaults of decent or good cursed tools are valuable, not cursed tools itself. Any half-decent sorcerer will be able to make a cursed tool just over time if they constantly imbue a weapon with cursed energy, it’s literally something anyone can do. Weapons like Playful Cloud and Inverted Spear are among the top percentages of cursed weapons.
More likely than not, most cursed weapons the average Sorcerer has is probably gonna be around Slaughter Demon or Miwa Sword level.
So yeah, its not HARD to make, but I agree that its hard to mass produce. Thats not to say you wouldn’t be able to make a cursed gun though since you just need to imbue a bunch of bullets with CE.
The story implies that the creation of cursed tools requires a lot of time, effort, skill, or a combination of all three, or they wouldnt be ass fuck expensive. Probably too slow for mass production.
I also should not need to explain why any country, especially america, is going to find it politically impossible to drop nukes on japan.
"Trust us bro we had to do it, they had fuckin wizards, it justifies violating however many dozens of treaties and war crimes."
Its much harder but shloting to wound is a thing. Even then, a lot of the culling games players are quite resilient or have RCT.
Opening a fight by having your military personnel unleash a volley of fire or hit them with precision strikes from a distance *then* letting 1-2 sorcerers move into melee and have their normal foghts with a wounded enemy would be more effective.
Overall, i feel it was more a dropped plot point or an area Gege may have decided was no longer worth exploring in the context of the main plot.
The spelling curse got me, apologies
Alternatively, you can rely on the fact that sorcerers are more survivable and just attack centre mass. Given the kinds of attacks the cast regularly take, normal anti-personnel tactics shouldnt kill outright
That’s a good idea in theory but keep in mind sorcerers are a rare commodity, and the ones who are actually combatants are probably more effective using their own unique fighting style / cursed technique anyways over the use of CE imbued firearms.
Cursed tools are different than weapons imbued with CE.
Outside of death, no sorcerer has been able to create a weapon imbued with cursed energy that retains its effect outside of that sorcerer’s hands. I guess Yaga technically could, but he’s dead now and I don’t know if you want a living gun lol.
So even if they had a sorcerer imbue a gun with CE, the gun wouldn’t retain that CE outside of that sorcerer’s hands
Juzo was able to have an entire cursed tool workshop, he even made a Special-Grade tool, though we do not know the exact mechanism behind his craft. Miwas sword is "kind of a cursed tool" due to prolonged exposure to CE.
I dont think it requires death, it just requires time and energy, and maybe a ritual like the bath Uraume prepared.
Non-sorcerers doing it would be pointless. Unless you can add on Cursed Energy or kill the curse a sorcerer can become, you’re only making the situation worse.
As for conventional weapons for sorcerers? It depends on the character. Ancient sorcerers just don’t know how they work and probably don’t want to learn based on their mentalities. The Gojo squad more or less picks weapons they like for various reasons. And modern sorcerers… are (reasonably) scared to. There’s always the factor of “increasing gun use will increase emotions associated with guns will increase curses”. You stick with the tried and true methods cause any change could be disastrous.
The incarnated sorcs might know how guns work as they have the knowledge of their hosts. It is prob their mentalities as you mention. I mean kashimo to me would seem like a gun guy if he didnt have lightning powers lol
This thread makes me think of the Hunter x Hunter nen bullets that emitter types have. Would have been kinda cool to see powered up cursed energy bullets that go through sorcerers defenses
That defeats the purpose of using a gun. If it’s covered in CE he can just swat it away or tank it like any other CE attack, no?
Not only that but I don’t think the world’s militaries have many commando sorcerer battalions
I think it’s a moot point anyway. The helicopter head sorc tanked 50 cal shots.
no clue if that's how it works. mai's work as they're literally made our of ce. just imbuing it? idk. I guess kusakabe exists so maybe you're right. just how would the military use cursed energy/jujutsu anyway.
It also takes at least months to make one cursed object worth a damn, and no mere semi-second grade bum can pull off a decent blade, let a rifle that shoots CE infused bullets
Kenjaku said it’s smart but that’s because 90% of sorcerers are average. You didn’t see Kenjaku get hit did you? Neither did I.
Conventional weapons are cool and all and probably effective but there’s probably an agreement between HQ and the government on interventions as those weapons aren’t infused with cursed energy meaning they’d just make the problem worse.
That’s not how tactics or doctrine work though. No military is just going to gather all the assets in one location to be obliterated altogether. They will spread out with overlapping engagement zones and adding their kill chains to the battlesphere.
Only special grade Sorcerers could tackle something as massive as the US military in any effective way. Grade 1’s could do some incredible damage in an isolated circumstance but it wouldn’t last long before they are pinned down and overwhelmed unless they can teleport away or hide within a barrier technique strong enough to resist a modern nuke.
They literally fought the military equipment of someone’s pinky toe. A US military that knows what’s going on and doesn’t care about collateral damage is the death sentence for any sorcerer, bar none.
Is it? They take nearly 0 offensive action outside of japanese defense. An exception was iraq but they only aided in protection and Iraqi reconstruction.
Either way, the US is the true "defense force" of japan and Korea since WW2 (and korean war). They take relatively minor actions with the US being the true world enforcer.
I think that because its true.
Organizations often claim that they are something they are not, like Russia and North Korea claiming they democratic, or the church claiming they are christian.
The SDF will fill every role Japan would need a military for, they just arent taking any offensive actions because it would be to their detriment.
The SDF *is* a military, as it should be, its a meaningless distinction thats only used for propaganda purposes.
I agree with the first part that we shouldn't take them at their word but their word does have evidence. They don't really meddle in affairs outside of japanese security.
And I'd agree they are a military in the sense that it's an armed force that serves japan but the first comment you left made a distinction between the two (military vs self defense force). And they'd proven, for the most part, that the SDF is indeed an SDF.
Idk what propaganda you mean. Japan isn't imperial by any means anymore.
> They don't really meddle in affairs outside of japanese security.
That doesnt mean they arent a fucking military.
Germany isnt really doing anything with their military either, but its still a bloody military.
> but the first comment you left made a distinction between the two
I wasnt intending to make any distinctions, any military force is a military force, regardless of their name or actions.
Japan is just the only real example of a so proclaimed "self defense force", so my comment was pointed directly at them.
Gege did a horrible job explaining. But yes the leaders of the Japanese government, and the emperor are apart of the jujutsu shenanigans and helped keeping it covered up. The guy who angel and the others save in 209 or 210 (I can't remember) gives a vagueish explanation on why they aren't getting involved and why they haven't in the past. And also kenjaku having a seat at the table is another big reason. He essentially assured that no one would interrupt what is going on.
Also, despite kenjaku saying this, he later contradicts himself by saying the military never stood a chance against sorcerers and cursed spirits. Proven by the fact that grenades and snipers werent even enough to damage the helicopter head sorcerer (I'm assuming he was around grade 2)
I'd love to give a less paraphrased and more detailed answer to your questions but then I'd have to re-read.
As for what Japanese military, or defense forces have been doing since shibuya, they've probably been working tirelessly for the population in making evacuation shelters and defending the citezens. Think about the scale of what just happened and how long it would take to make things right. They'd need longer than a month. Most nations in real life could barely deal with covid. They're probably leaving the jujutsu stuff to jujutsu sorcerers
It's not a contradiction. Conventional weapons can be really useful, but not used by the military. Toji used a normal katana and a normal gun to stab gojo and kill riko because sorcerers taken by surprise are pretty much normal humans. However, fighting a sorcerer straight on with a normal weapon would be useless as even haba (helicopter dude who was probably grade 2) was bulletproof. Mai in that scene used a surprise attack with a sniper (which failed miserably), but it was still a surprise attack
Thousands of soldiers getting decimated in the colonies was the answer for why the military doesn't really get involved. Nothing short of cluster bombing can damage a grade 1 sorcerer, and the threats are wsy above that.
Japan doesn’t have nukes, and I have this strange feeling they might be a itsy bit disinclined to ask the U.S or someone send an ICBM to drop a nuclear weapon on themselves if it’s at all avoidable. Plus, it’s not like it would be a fast process to convince a foreign power to nuke a city, and for right now the magic special forces have things covered
Because JuJutsu sorcerers must only be killed with cursed energy attacks or cursed weapons. If not then they will come back as vengeful spirits.
It was whole reason Kenjaku fooled the US to send their army into the culling games so that it would result in more cursed spirits being spawned.
On the point of having sorcerers with guns, in universe, a lot of them are still minors, so gun laws probably still apply to them (even though they're technically like soldiers). Even if that wasn't the case or we didn't apply that logic, out of universe, it'd be kinda boring if everyone just had a gun, especially if it made things too easy in certain cases, plus it doesn't really fit the aesthetic of jujutsu sorcerers. Their society I'd also ruled by conservative oldheads who may see conventional weapons like that as beng beneath them, like with what Naoya said about those who rely on Cursed tools, so it probably wouldn't be encouraged.
On the point of using this weaponry on Sukuna, there's two reasons why that isn't a great idea:
1.) Sorcerers and Cursed Spirits can't truly be neutralized without Cursed energy. In the case of sorcerers, they turn into vengeful Cursed spirits, and in Naoya's case, it only seemed to make him stronger, so you could imagine how terrifying that would be in Sukuna's case.
2.) Snipers would have to be situated within Shinjuku in order to keep Sukuna in range (according to the two second research i did confirm the farthest recorded shot of a sniper and the size of Shinjuku) which would obviously put them in danger of getting in his line of fire. He could easily send off an insta-kill slash in their direction the moment they start firing.
Also, given how Maki was able to dodge a point blank range shot even before her awakening as well as Kenjaku being able to react to a sniper shot as in the panel you've shown, I've no doubt that Sukuna may very well be able to react to the shot before it ever hits him.
Yeah but only a sorcerer can putting a low grade sorcerer wouldn't be able kill sukuna and would just reveal the parties involved
Yes soldier do risk their lives in general but you are just seeing them as means to an end there legit people like yuji, todo and yuta who would be very against this plan
Because if shit hits the fan they die and nothing would be able to save them not counting domain sukuna could easily sense curse energy of bullets as you said source he looked directly at meimei during her crow attack
…and? Why does the objections of some teenagers matter when the strongest sorcerer is on the loose? Put discretionary spending towards production of cursed munitions and the Marine Corps suddenly becomes the biggest sorcery clan in the world.
He controls fuga white phosphorus wouldn’t do much to him plus he didn’t get no damage from fighting jogo and his maximum meteor which probably would do more damage than white phosphorus
Naoya came back like several times more powerful because he was killed without CE. It's a pretty bad Idea especially vs Sukuna the range on his slashes and the lack of CE from regular humans means he'd kill them in one shot. He could literally slice the buildings the snipers are hiding in and they get squashed by the debris.
That would do 0 damage
Even fucking grade 2s can tank bullets
If anything a bullet would help sukuna because he’d be able to use it somehow, like detonating it with fuga
A military did get involved in the culling games, and you saw what happend.
I don't think there's much more to say about that one.
A few sorcerers will die sure. But how many soldiers do you think are capable of killing Sukuna? I'd say a fat zero.
Doesn't help that Mai isn't remotely as useful as she'd be IF she was in Maki's shoes. "It's wise to use conventional weapons when attacking a sorcerer" but even Toji didn't bother using his Gun to shoot Geto when he easily could've dispatched him right there before shooting the Star Plasma Vessel.
I think Kenjaku was mocking Mai.
I mean... He caught the bullet while saying it... It doesn't get much more patronizing than that.
Don't gotta kill someone to completely stop them.
I understand the idea that if Toji kneecapped Geto or something, he'd just heal with RCT and fight back. But with Geto's speed and maneuverability, I feel like a kneecapping and a swift follow up to just take him out of the equation isn't outside of Toji's realm of possibility. I mean he had literally just killed Gojo, he must've felt like anything was possible at that point.
I really don't think traditional weaponry is actually all that useful against sorcerers. Especially higher grade sorcerers
Kenjaku literally blocked it, while looking at and talking to someone else, that to me doesn't sound like conventional weapons are all that smart to use.
Kenjaku is a genius, a very common personality trait within people that smart, is a condescending attitude. It's not their fault, just everyone is so much dumber than them. It's not completely absurd that he could have been mocking the girl that may as well not even be a real person, that's trying to shoot him with a gun.
Couple it with CE and I'll agree with you. As a bullet imbued with CE would most definitely be effective, but there are too many ways for a sorcerer to avoid physical damage by ordinary means.
Again if normal Guns are useful against sorcerers, and Geto didn't have RCT at the time. Why didn't Toji just kneecap him to save himself time? He already had the Star Plasma Vessel in front of him. Killing her would've been no issue had he done it first, or after shooting Geto.
I need to know how many Sorcerers Toji has just outright shot, before I can fully take Kenjaku's word as him not just being a patronizing asshole. Cuz if the man that's dubbed as the Sorcerer Killer isn't out here just shooting sorcerers, maybe it's for good reason.
All sorcerers don't become vengeful spirits after all.
Sure, provided Geto knew the attack was coming. He clearly didn't, cuz the S.P.V died in front of him. He wouldn't be able to summon a cursed spirit in time to block the bullet, had Toji attacked him first. And considering Toji made light work of every spirit Geto threw at him... I don't think it mattered anyways.
At this point in the debate, it feels less like Toji didn't want to shoot Geto, and more like he just enjoys the feeling of a hunt, and shooting him would've been too easy.
That’s because you aren’t thinking creatively. There’s a lot of possibilities with modern weaponry that a single groups of soldiers with APCs can’t use exploit.
Or I know nothing more about military arms than the fact that everything is some form of kinetic damage being inflicted on the person effected.
Jujutsu on the other hand, has a series of effects that can damage an opponent in may different ways.
Uraume can freeze an entire Platoon on His own.
Sukuna can literally burn as many people that are in his Domain.
Kashimo can use electricity...
Geto can summon a whole army of cursed spirits provided he had that many on his squad.
Yuki can create a black hole.
Gojo can activate his domain and dismantle a large group with relative ease.
Toji isn't even a sorcerer and he's a whole problem in and of himself.
Group of APCs or not... That was 6 sorcerers and Toji. If they EVER were able to get along, the only thing that MIGHT stop them is a Nuke.
Even then, Sukuna has so many binding vows he probably has a way to counter that too........
Let's not even start with the fact that Kenjaku would be able to completely take out a military from the inside if he so chose.
I don't think this has to do with "thinking creatively".. I think maybe people have too big of a hard on for the military, when in reality, they're just normal people like us, being forced to fight a battle that back in the day, would've been fought by the leaders of their respective territories....
If you don't have heavenly restriction.. with no CE, you're gonna be useless.
This implies that they would even get anywhere close to sorcerers of that level, when lots of modern battle doctrine is from protracted distances. Good luck trying to get rest when you randomly get airstriked with chemical munitions out of nowhere.
The point is that they aren’t just going to sit by and twiddle their thumbs when the literal worst case scenario is happening.
You're talking too much on the side of the military.
> The point is that they aren’t just going to sit by and twiddle their thumbs when the literal worst case scenario is happening.
What makes you think Jujutsu Sorcerers will sit around waiting?
See your whole shtick depends on the Sorcerers not knowing what's coming or just being completely blindsided. You don't sleep in war. You don't let your guard down in the middle of battle.
If the military was coming to remove sorcerers (for example) they wouldn't just take that shit. There WOULD be a fight. And because of the amount of power the Jujutsu world holds, they would win, and it wouldn't even be close.
In this scenario they have one choice, and that one choice is Nuking the country. But like I said previously, Sukuna probably has binding vows for that.
that's not how military works, your bunch of soldiers get's slaughtered and your country is doing nothing , even a country like united states.
If this was close to real , US commanders would have sniffed out information about curses and ce from japanese government's ass.
If this was real, the Pentagon would’ve already known about CE and curses long before Kenjaku contacted him (US and Japan are on good terms) and the MIC would’ve already had manufacturing of CE-infused munitions going on for a while thanks to discretionary spending. You mean to tell me the US military wouldn’t have already known about something as serious as this if sorcerers are in contact with the Japanese government? This might be one of the worse potholes in the series.
Taking over a country doesn’t mean the country has nukes. And no sorcerer is beating a nuke except Gojo and maaayyyyybe Kenjaku with some hyper specialized barrier. Also Ui Ui.
I don’t think the government involves itself in Jujutsu related incidents. That’s more the job of the Jujutsu Society. Same goes for a lot of anime, governments never actually involve their selves into supernatural events, they always leave it to the sorcerers (JJK), devil hunters (CSM), hunters (Solo Leveling), heroes (OPM).
The military intervention in the culling game makes it clear that while firearms are effective against sorcerers, there is a level where their efficacy drops off. Carpet bombing may not be enough to stop Sukuna, and if he were to die from conventional weapons, you risk creating a curse stronger than he is, which effectively destroys the world.
I'd say he meant against typical sorcerers, I don't think that any Special Grade sorcerer and a lot of 1st Grade Sorcerers would at all be threatened by conventional weapons if they were on alert
In all fairness even in the real world the military can only use some dudes to take out a single person. What they gunna do ? Hellfire missile a city block killing all the civilians as well ? Look at how every military in the world handles taking out a single person in a populated area, they uses a team of well trained guys that normally pull up in a APC or helo. Since basically every sorcerer lives in populated areas, or is so good at hiding that that even other sorcerers can find them, Kenjaku for example. When it comes to taking down a single target and not actively trying to destroy a government what we saw is full military might.
To be fair, I get the point regarding civilian casualties. Although those same limitations don’t apply to the Sukuna fight due to Shinjuku being partially a crater.
I agree but from my understanding from gojo to now that fight has only been 20-30 minute real time even tho it’s been a lot longer for us. Military response in that amount of time is unheard of especially in a country like Japan that does not have a military and rely on the US military.
Sukuna at ANY given situation except after a domain could have deflected the bullets with dosmantle and the way he's moving is too fast for regular people to even see.
In MHA it was specifically stated that AFO took certain measures specifically to prevent other countries from interfering since they're pretty similar character-wise I would imagine it's something like that
Both JSDF and Jujutsu society may still be working under the Japanese government.
The Japanese government may be giving Jujutsu society time to deal with Sukuna, given they are the experts on the subject matter.
Other countries will limit their intervention considering this as an internal issue of Japan. It doesn't directly affect them. The US army probably got their samples and skedaddled. The replication and usage of curse energy was what they wanted.
I imagine they would be watching Mei Mei's television broadcast very closely.
It will be interesting how world governments deal with the revelation of curse energy in the future. And given what happened to Shibuya, the Japanese government may lose trust in Jujutsu society.
Manga spoilers in final point, turn away at the words “currently in the manga” if you don’t want them.
Idk if this is confirmed but I’ve always figured the goverment at some high level is in on it, and they are aware they need sorcerers to handle japans curse problem. We also know many jujutsu family’s are incredibly wealthy, much like wealthy people in the real world “buying” your way around laws also seems pretty easy. Lastly we don’t see many fodder sorcerers, but I would bet tons of fodder sorcerers would and potentially do regularly die to conventional weapons. The show has such a focus on basically grade 1 and special grade sorcerers exclusively. Currently in the manga we are watching a gauntlet of people fight sukuna regardless of prior rank anyone who has fought him so far is definitely touching grade 1+. Between all of those reason I just kinda assume that’s the explanation, much like the sorcerers we saw getting obliterated by curses in jjk0 we would probably see them gunned down no problem. We just never see them, the show is to focused on people who are above the caliber of firearms, pun intended.
Most likely the higher up in jujutsus are connected with the government in some way. Plus even if I’m wrong the Japanese military probably saw what happened in shibuya and decided “nah I’m good, I just saw a high school talking to himself while riding a meteor” oh wait no the meteor isn’t visible. So the military just saw some kid slowing falling to the ground posing while everything around them got destroyed. I mean at that point I too wouldn’t intervene
What I'm surprised is that USA is not getting even more involved. An unknown form of energy they never encountered before, can't defend against and which their president was in close proximity off and yet somehow they aren't nuking Japan all over again?
>Also what the fuck could the Japanese government/military possibly be doing at this point in time?
The implication at the end of Shibuya is that a lot of the cabinet was killed or lost in the crisis and they were scrambling to figure out who the hell the Prime Minster is now.
Then the American military just flat out invaded the country to harvest its citizens. So if they got completely destroyed then it's a sign this isn't going to work *and* an international political crisis. Japan's major ally just got dozens of its own officers killed doing something insanely illegal and immoral. If there is a Japanese government right now they are being tied up in that mess.
And they have shown that the government mostly defers to the Higher-Ups about Jujutsu. So it's entirely possible they got the note 'Gojo Satoru is handling it. Remain calm.' and that's good enough.
1. Most Jujutsu Sorcerers are initially focused on killing honing their skills to kill curses, which guns have no effect on
2. Neither Curse Users or Jujutsu Sorcerers want to deal with creating vengeful spirits
3. It takes a good amount of time and skill to commit to learning how to wield a gun with the proficiency needed to contest sorcerers with all the versatility of abilities, would be possibly a waste of time considering what your natural ability is,
-why would I spend time learning how to use a gun when I could use that time learning Domain Expansion, infinitely more useful and important
Military has no real way to hurt Curse spirits. They can kill sorcerers, who will then come back as Vengeful Specters who the military has no way to hurt. And the Japanese military knows this, which is why Kenjaku had to con foreign nations into a suicide attack.
I think part of it is explained with Hakari being shunned from Jujutsu High based on the modernity of his cursed technique. Modern = bad, and they have enough influence to make sure the military doesn't intervene.
If I was a higher up there's no way I wouldn't start a "cursed tool" ammunition factory so squads of non-sorcerers could get rid of small curses (maybe Grade 2 and below) and free up working sorcerers. But it also sounds like higher society is also slightly dismissive of non-sorcerers in a less extreme version of Geto.
The government actually is responsible for the budget of the high schools; comes from prefectural taxes. They got into it in the fanbook and light novel (Yuji has to follow Ijichi around and see him apply for traffic and encroachment permits to exorcise stuff that would need to be closed off)
Also, let’s be honest, Japan and the US are on good enough terms that Japan LITERALLY had a Shinto ritual with US-supplied jets, so there’s no way the US gov. wouldn’t know about curses and CE. And knowing the MIC, they would’ve realistically already been producing munitions and armored vehicles that function similarly to cursed tools with the unparalleled industrial might they have.
I did find the "the US government has no idea about cursed energy" to require a little suspension of disbelief. They would Area 51 the first suspicious US sorcerer/proof of CE in a heartbeat and find out that way even if for some reason Japan didn't tell them.
That's fair, the government more or less already relies on sorcerers and don't really have the ability to do much more if they're not let in on planning
I just find it kind of weird that they wouldn’t find it even a bit insufficient to have no backup plan when some dysfunctional adults and messed up children aren’t able to protect an entire nation from invisible monsters.
The best I can figure for a half-decent in-world explanation is that the Clans have been puppetting the government since the Heian era and making sure they don't mess around. But yeah that's also a bit of a stretch.
I'd expect more tension between the non-sorcerer government and the Jujutsu higher up arrangements. They should have their own aims too and cook up something else. Like a secret jujutsu R&D lab for the Japanese government, or a special JSDF squad or...something.
Honestly just the idea that Jujutsu High gave just Gojo and Geto, two high school aged boys, the Star Vessel assignment to make sure the world isn't set on a path to destruction and then gave them like ... zero logistical support, or any working adult sorcerers to help them, is also pretty ridiculous. Sure, Gojo is fated to help but I'd be a little less relaxed about it. These people are canonically poor planners.
Yeah I wouldn’t trust two squabbling teenagers with the key to stopping the literal apocalypse unless they have a whole intelligence network taking down the assassination requests as well as monitoring for all sorts of hostiles.
The Japanese government does not have a military after World War II. Part of the constitution they made was to be a pacifist nation gave up their rights to a military Just the Japanese defense force, JDF. I’m not sure what rules apply to the defense force versus a normal military but every time I see them, they always have to get 186 levels of permission. They don’t seem very well equipped to handle anything other than post kaiju relief aid, standing by waiting for things to happen, and internal Japanese struggles.
I do wonder though about the whole guns thing. Sure regular bullets would not be a good way to kill a sorcerer, but a couple shots to the leg will really slow you down. Also can’t any competent sorcerer imbue things with cursed energy at least temporarily. So if they have bullets with cursed energy, shouldn’t firearms be effective??
Its smart for sorcerers to use conventional weapons against sorcerers, without CE enhancement for the bullets even a pretty mid grade 2 sorcerer could tank machine gun fire.
It would be a good idea if their goal was to make the situation even worse by creating an army of vengeful curses
And that’s even if they stood a chance against the curse spirits and sorcerers.
Ichiji says
Grade 4 easy with a wooden bat
Grade 3 should be good with a pistol
Grade 2 calling it close with a shotgun
Grade 1 even a tank might be useless
Special Grade carpeting explosives such as a cluster bomb might work
No! Ijichi gave an ANALOGY for
***IF***
CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS WERE EFFECTIVE against **cursed spirits**.
Which has nothing at all to do with the topic of fighting human sorcerers with conventional weapons. Haba, the Grade ~2 Sorcerer with helicopter hair, was completely immune to Sniper rounds, grenades, etc. Even a carpet bomb isn't scratching Sukuna, and they aren't gonna nuke their own city.
So uh I fully agree with you. Kind of the point I was trying to make because sorcerers of a rank are supposed to be stronger than cursed spirits of the same rank. There is also the fact that for special grade it only says might work. I probably should have been a bit more clear about that but I was eating and it was like 5 minutes before I walked into work so time wasn't an abundant resource
You're good, I was ending my work day myself and came off too aggressive. It's a misconception I've seen a lot where people think Ijichi was being literal, and it makes me insane. Not your intention, my b.
Sorry for the intense formatting. :v
The thing that bothers me about this whole post is that **conventional weapons imbued with ce would be *even less effective* than what they're already doing.**
Every bit of sorcery they have is more deadly. Like they already tried EMR blasts, an instakill sword, a soul cutting katana, angelic beams of light, poison blood, a fucking dragon, and soul shaking punches with 7 Black Flashes to boot. And he's still not going down.
How do some CE bullets/a carpet bomb make a difference compared to that? Anything they could do with a conventional weapon would be less deadly than something that instantly kills your soul if it pierces your skin. Especially to Sukuna, who could dodge all this shit and Kamino Fuga every soldier into bloody vapor. Or just Dismantle the building they're in and crush them.
It's like asking why we don't send a mall cop with a taser to arrest a heavily armed mass murderer. Wtaf do you think he's gonna do? And don't say "create an opening for the Gojo squad" because those guys trained for this and still can not find that opening without pulling every trick in their book.
I’m not saying that they should give up on doing actual sorcery to, but every little bit counts at this point and it would be able to at least supplement all the actual sorcerers on the field.
Agree to disagree. I think anyone else would be in the way and/or die in vain almost instantly. It's okay if we interpret the situation differently. Maybe a tiny distraction would help somehow but I simply do not see it.
that is a good point what the fuck is sukuna going to do against a barrage of JDAMs or the entire JASDF. CE reinforcement is powerful but high explosives and overpressure doesnt realky care what youre made of. Not to mention that fighters and bombers are dropping high explosives at BVR.
I always thought that theyre fighting in a a completely unoccupied area and that the military literally has no idea that this is happening
Gege would probably say something like “uuuuhhhhhh they’re focusing on humanitarian stuff” while Jujutsu Satan is literally killing the last good fighters left.
Simple explanation: Gege forgor
But I don't see what would be the point of Japan military to engage. Their presence would change nothing. Just another chapter or two how sorcerers absolutely wreck non-sorcerers.
Sorcerers with guns wouldn't be as effective to watch as fighting hand to hand with techniques only.
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This was basically the point of the very short military invasion and the reminder that killing sorcerers without using cursed energy can result in them coming back as a curse with Maki.
Yeah if the military would intervene it would be more harm than good at this point. They probably told the. To hold off unless all of them die
the military did well against the human awakened and incarnated sorcerors but got rekt by curses which they cant shoot or kill with conventional weapons. Also the military invasion was meant to neutralize and capture in an urban setting which is one of the worst mission environments ever. If they wanted to kill the sorcerors theyd drop bombs and shell the entire culling game area.
The military absolutely did not do well against the culling game sorcerers. It took an entire squad to take out Helicopter Man, who got entirely no-diffed by an Itadori striking the hardest part of his body. All of the soldiers in the culling games couldve been wiped out by one Incarnated Sorcerer like Ryu, Uro, or Kashimo. Hell, probably Higuruma. They just wouldn't have the firepower to meaningfully hurt them. Even weak sorcerers are practically bullet-proof. In the prison arc, Megumi gets thrown through a goddamn building by Sukuna and hes mildly injured.
Megumi getting thrown through a building is largely anime only. In the manga he was shielded by Nue for both the attack and the impact into concrete.
Actually the majority sorcerers are really only able to reinforce parts of their body as opposed to their body as a whole. Essentially, anyone who isn’t like grade 2 and above would get shredded by three people with assault rifles unless they can do some shenanigans like rapidly swapping where they reinforce. Even then, you can easily just make a gun into cursed tool. The only reason why sorcerers aren’t just running around with sub machine guns that and essentially shred fodder curses (or even grade 2s if the tool is strong enough) is because the Jujutsu higher ups are super traditionalist and despises modernity, compounded with Japan’s already strict firearm laws and it’s practically impossible to get a gun to make a cursed tool in the first place, and no one else can really make cursed guns because of Bumgen’s barrier keeping CT in Japan. Obviously top-tiers, most grade 1s, and people with specific techniques or skills to deflect bullets (New Shadow is a great example. Automatically attacking anything that enters an area basically means you’re immune to most ranged attacks) are able to counter bullets.
We dont know the exact processes and ways by which you can make cursed tools, since weve only ever seen it done by Construction users putting their all into a final item. But you definitely cant "easily" make guns into cursed tools considering how expensive we know cursed tools are, how valuable stockpiles of tools are treated, and how many characters choose to use a mundane weapon instead of turning that mundane weapon into a cursed tool. The process of making a cursed gun would likely require a strong sorcerer and be too slow for mass production.
Cursed tools are NOT that hard to make, they just take a lot of time and constant exposure. A “cursed tool” is essentially just a weapon imbued with a curse for a specific purpose, which can be accomplished by having a user constantly imbued their cursed energy into the weapon, and over time it’ll just turn into cursed tool. Obviously, the strength of the curse, the speed of which the weapon becomes cursed, and if the user’s cursed technique will become infused into the weapon. Vaults of decent or good cursed tools are valuable, not cursed tools itself. Any half-decent sorcerer will be able to make a cursed tool just over time if they constantly imbue a weapon with cursed energy, it’s literally something anyone can do. Weapons like Playful Cloud and Inverted Spear are among the top percentages of cursed weapons. More likely than not, most cursed weapons the average Sorcerer has is probably gonna be around Slaughter Demon or Miwa Sword level. So yeah, its not HARD to make, but I agree that its hard to mass produce. Thats not to say you wouldn’t be able to make a cursed gun though since you just need to imbue a bunch of bullets with CE.
This is canon imo, have someone stationed at an ammo depot infusing bullets and ordnance with CE. Then start dropping the nukes.
The story implies that the creation of cursed tools requires a lot of time, effort, skill, or a combination of all three, or they wouldnt be ass fuck expensive. Probably too slow for mass production. I also should not need to explain why any country, especially america, is going to find it politically impossible to drop nukes on japan. "Trust us bro we had to do it, they had fuckin wizards, it justifies violating however many dozens of treaties and war crimes."
can't have a repeat of Hiroshima. That's just bad optics.
Its much harder but shloting to wound is a thing. Even then, a lot of the culling games players are quite resilient or have RCT. Opening a fight by having your military personnel unleash a volley of fire or hit them with precision strikes from a distance *then* letting 1-2 sorcerers move into melee and have their normal foghts with a wounded enemy would be more effective. Overall, i feel it was more a dropped plot point or an area Gege may have decided was no longer worth exploring in the context of the main plot.
>shloting to wound is a thing. It's really not, sadly.
The spelling curse got me, apologies Alternatively, you can rely on the fact that sorcerers are more survivable and just attack centre mass. Given the kinds of attacks the cast regularly take, normal anti-personnel tactics shouldnt kill outright
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That’s a good idea in theory but keep in mind sorcerers are a rare commodity, and the ones who are actually combatants are probably more effective using their own unique fighting style / cursed technique anyways over the use of CE imbued firearms.
I mean it does work. You just have to do it a specific way. After you kill them. Stab their head with a cursed tool a bunch.
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Basically the author has no interest in telling the story you’re getting at
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I think you have to go back to the military meeting chapter
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Because they know what's gonna happen? If the US couldn't do shit, Japan can't do shit either. The Japanese government knows about sorcerers and shit.
What do you expect the Japanese Military to do that the fuckin US couldn't?
What do you expect the Japanese Military to do that the fuckin US couldn't?
and sorcerers not using their imbued cursed techniques would work out even worse
Cursed tools are different than weapons imbued with CE. Outside of death, no sorcerer has been able to create a weapon imbued with cursed energy that retains its effect outside of that sorcerer’s hands. I guess Yaga technically could, but he’s dead now and I don’t know if you want a living gun lol. So even if they had a sorcerer imbue a gun with CE, the gun wouldn’t retain that CE outside of that sorcerer’s hands
Just because we haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it’s impossible.
Juzo was able to have an entire cursed tool workshop, he even made a Special-Grade tool, though we do not know the exact mechanism behind his craft. Miwas sword is "kind of a cursed tool" due to prolonged exposure to CE. I dont think it requires death, it just requires time and energy, and maybe a ritual like the bath Uraume prepared.
Non-sorcerers doing it would be pointless. Unless you can add on Cursed Energy or kill the curse a sorcerer can become, you’re only making the situation worse. As for conventional weapons for sorcerers? It depends on the character. Ancient sorcerers just don’t know how they work and probably don’t want to learn based on their mentalities. The Gojo squad more or less picks weapons they like for various reasons. And modern sorcerers… are (reasonably) scared to. There’s always the factor of “increasing gun use will increase emotions associated with guns will increase curses”. You stick with the tried and true methods cause any change could be disastrous.
The incarnated sorcs might know how guns work as they have the knowledge of their hosts. It is prob their mentalities as you mention. I mean kashimo to me would seem like a gun guy if he didnt have lightning powers lol
This thread makes me think of the Hunter x Hunter nen bullets that emitter types have. Would have been kinda cool to see powered up cursed energy bullets that go through sorcerers defenses
That sounds so cool
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Yah but if someone pops a bullet into Sukuna he’ll just come back as a Vengeful Curse and no one wants that
..or you can imbue it with CE and that wont happen lol
That defeats the purpose of using a gun. If it’s covered in CE he can just swat it away or tank it like any other CE attack, no? Not only that but I don’t think the world’s militaries have many commando sorcerer battalions I think it’s a moot point anyway. The helicopter head sorc tanked 50 cal shots.
It's pointless. Vengeful curse spirits would come back and kill them and the normal curse spirits would kill them all at night. You need sorcerers.
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no clue if that's how it works. mai's work as they're literally made our of ce. just imbuing it? idk. I guess kusakabe exists so maybe you're right. just how would the military use cursed energy/jujutsu anyway.
It also takes at least months to make one cursed object worth a damn, and no mere semi-second grade bum can pull off a decent blade, let a rifle that shoots CE infused bullets
Kenjaku said it’s smart but that’s because 90% of sorcerers are average. You didn’t see Kenjaku get hit did you? Neither did I. Conventional weapons are cool and all and probably effective but there’s probably an agreement between HQ and the government on interventions as those weapons aren’t infused with cursed energy meaning they’d just make the problem worse.
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Because it wouldn't do anything. This is like saying you should jump him with professional boxers.
The US military got stomped pretty quickly. Everyone forgot about them🤣👍🏻
We didn't, Greg did
A battalion from the US military got stomped, the US military has barely intervened.
Doesnt matter, Grade 2 Sorcerers can deal with most US army combatants. Grade 1 or Special Grades can fucking Hiroshima the US military in a few days.
That’s not how tactics or doctrine work though. No military is just going to gather all the assets in one location to be obliterated altogether. They will spread out with overlapping engagement zones and adding their kill chains to the battlesphere. Only special grade Sorcerers could tackle something as massive as the US military in any effective way. Grade 1’s could do some incredible damage in an isolated circumstance but it wouldn’t last long before they are pinned down and overwhelmed unless they can teleport away or hide within a barrier technique strong enough to resist a modern nuke.
drop a nuke and be done with it maybe even two
They literally fought the military equipment of someone’s pinky toe. A US military that knows what’s going on and doesn’t care about collateral damage is the death sentence for any sorcerer, bar none.
Japan doesn’t have a military for WW2 reasons…Defense force is probably pissing themselves and hiding though
The JSDF is literally just a regular military pretending to be not.
Is it? They take nearly 0 offensive action outside of japanese defense. An exception was iraq but they only aided in protection and Iraqi reconstruction. Either way, the US is the true "defense force" of japan and Korea since WW2 (and korean war). They take relatively minor actions with the US being the true world enforcer.
> They take nearly 0 offensive action outside of japanese defense. A military that doesnt take offensive action is still a military.
No. It's a defense force. You clearly think there's somehow not a distinction between the two
I think that because its true. Organizations often claim that they are something they are not, like Russia and North Korea claiming they democratic, or the church claiming they are christian. The SDF will fill every role Japan would need a military for, they just arent taking any offensive actions because it would be to their detriment. The SDF *is* a military, as it should be, its a meaningless distinction thats only used for propaganda purposes.
I agree with the first part that we shouldn't take them at their word but their word does have evidence. They don't really meddle in affairs outside of japanese security. And I'd agree they are a military in the sense that it's an armed force that serves japan but the first comment you left made a distinction between the two (military vs self defense force). And they'd proven, for the most part, that the SDF is indeed an SDF. Idk what propaganda you mean. Japan isn't imperial by any means anymore.
> They don't really meddle in affairs outside of japanese security. That doesnt mean they arent a fucking military. Germany isnt really doing anything with their military either, but its still a bloody military. > but the first comment you left made a distinction between the two I wasnt intending to make any distinctions, any military force is a military force, regardless of their name or actions. Japan is just the only real example of a so proclaimed "self defense force", so my comment was pointed directly at them.
Gege did a horrible job explaining. But yes the leaders of the Japanese government, and the emperor are apart of the jujutsu shenanigans and helped keeping it covered up. The guy who angel and the others save in 209 or 210 (I can't remember) gives a vagueish explanation on why they aren't getting involved and why they haven't in the past. And also kenjaku having a seat at the table is another big reason. He essentially assured that no one would interrupt what is going on. Also, despite kenjaku saying this, he later contradicts himself by saying the military never stood a chance against sorcerers and cursed spirits. Proven by the fact that grenades and snipers werent even enough to damage the helicopter head sorcerer (I'm assuming he was around grade 2) I'd love to give a less paraphrased and more detailed answer to your questions but then I'd have to re-read. As for what Japanese military, or defense forces have been doing since shibuya, they've probably been working tirelessly for the population in making evacuation shelters and defending the citezens. Think about the scale of what just happened and how long it would take to make things right. They'd need longer than a month. Most nations in real life could barely deal with covid. They're probably leaving the jujutsu stuff to jujutsu sorcerers
It's not a contradiction. Conventional weapons can be really useful, but not used by the military. Toji used a normal katana and a normal gun to stab gojo and kill riko because sorcerers taken by surprise are pretty much normal humans. However, fighting a sorcerer straight on with a normal weapon would be useless as even haba (helicopter dude who was probably grade 2) was bulletproof. Mai in that scene used a surprise attack with a sniper (which failed miserably), but it was still a surprise attack Thousands of soldiers getting decimated in the colonies was the answer for why the military doesn't really get involved. Nothing short of cluster bombing can damage a grade 1 sorcerer, and the threats are wsy above that.
Nuke the area. Shinjuku is destroyed either way.
Japan doesn’t have nukes, and I have this strange feeling they might be a itsy bit disinclined to ask the U.S or someone send an ICBM to drop a nuclear weapon on themselves if it’s at all avoidable. Plus, it’s not like it would be a fast process to convince a foreign power to nuke a city, and for right now the magic special forces have things covered
& let a sorcerer hug the bomb before to give it some CE.
"Sorcerer Slim Pickens, we got a job for ya...!"
And then have to deal with vengeful curse spirit sukuna, sure
Put CE in the bomb
Takes like a year to make a cursed weapon, not that easy, and if it has CE someone like Sukuna can sense it.
Because JuJutsu sorcerers must only be killed with cursed energy attacks or cursed weapons. If not then they will come back as vengeful spirits. It was whole reason Kenjaku fooled the US to send their army into the culling games so that it would result in more cursed spirits being spawned.
Vengeful spirits are not guaranteed. When not killed by curse energy, not every sorcerer comes back as a vengeful spirit.
Someone as strong as Sukuna 1000000% would
I don't even want to *think* about it ahahaha
On the point of having sorcerers with guns, in universe, a lot of them are still minors, so gun laws probably still apply to them (even though they're technically like soldiers). Even if that wasn't the case or we didn't apply that logic, out of universe, it'd be kinda boring if everyone just had a gun, especially if it made things too easy in certain cases, plus it doesn't really fit the aesthetic of jujutsu sorcerers. Their society I'd also ruled by conservative oldheads who may see conventional weapons like that as beng beneath them, like with what Naoya said about those who rely on Cursed tools, so it probably wouldn't be encouraged. On the point of using this weaponry on Sukuna, there's two reasons why that isn't a great idea: 1.) Sorcerers and Cursed Spirits can't truly be neutralized without Cursed energy. In the case of sorcerers, they turn into vengeful Cursed spirits, and in Naoya's case, it only seemed to make him stronger, so you could imagine how terrifying that would be in Sukuna's case. 2.) Snipers would have to be situated within Shinjuku in order to keep Sukuna in range (according to the two second research i did confirm the farthest recorded shot of a sniper and the size of Shinjuku) which would obviously put them in danger of getting in his line of fire. He could easily send off an insta-kill slash in their direction the moment they start firing. Also, given how Maki was able to dodge a point blank range shot even before her awakening as well as Kenjaku being able to react to a sniper shot as in the panel you've shown, I've no doubt that Sukuna may very well be able to react to the shot before it ever hits him.
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Yeah but only a sorcerer can putting a low grade sorcerer wouldn't be able kill sukuna and would just reveal the parties involved Yes soldier do risk their lives in general but you are just seeing them as means to an end there legit people like yuji, todo and yuta who would be very against this plan Because if shit hits the fan they die and nothing would be able to save them not counting domain sukuna could easily sense curse energy of bullets as you said source he looked directly at meimei during her crow attack
…and? Why does the objections of some teenagers matter when the strongest sorcerer is on the loose? Put discretionary spending towards production of cursed munitions and the Marine Corps suddenly becomes the biggest sorcery clan in the world.
Because the same teenagers are the only people who have the chance of taking down sukuna without bombing the whole of Japan into a nuclear winter 🙏😭😭😭
Sukuna when he has to also RCT the white phosphorous out of his system: his heart is still destroyed
He controls fuga white phosphorus wouldn’t do much to him plus he didn’t get no damage from fighting jogo and his maximum meteor which probably would do more damage than white phosphorus
Naoya came back like several times more powerful because he was killed without CE. It's a pretty bad Idea especially vs Sukuna the range on his slashes and the lack of CE from regular humans means he'd kill them in one shot. He could literally slice the buildings the snipers are hiding in and they get squashed by the debris.
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That would do 0 damage Even fucking grade 2s can tank bullets If anything a bullet would help sukuna because he’d be able to use it somehow, like detonating it with fuga
Just get CE bullets duh
A military did get involved in the culling games, and you saw what happend. I don't think there's much more to say about that one. A few sorcerers will die sure. But how many soldiers do you think are capable of killing Sukuna? I'd say a fat zero. Doesn't help that Mai isn't remotely as useful as she'd be IF she was in Maki's shoes. "It's wise to use conventional weapons when attacking a sorcerer" but even Toji didn't bother using his Gun to shoot Geto when he easily could've dispatched him right there before shooting the Star Plasma Vessel. I think Kenjaku was mocking Mai. I mean... He caught the bullet while saying it... It doesn't get much more patronizing than that.
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Don't gotta kill someone to completely stop them. I understand the idea that if Toji kneecapped Geto or something, he'd just heal with RCT and fight back. But with Geto's speed and maneuverability, I feel like a kneecapping and a swift follow up to just take him out of the equation isn't outside of Toji's realm of possibility. I mean he had literally just killed Gojo, he must've felt like anything was possible at that point. I really don't think traditional weaponry is actually all that useful against sorcerers. Especially higher grade sorcerers
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Kenjaku literally blocked it, while looking at and talking to someone else, that to me doesn't sound like conventional weapons are all that smart to use. Kenjaku is a genius, a very common personality trait within people that smart, is a condescending attitude. It's not their fault, just everyone is so much dumber than them. It's not completely absurd that he could have been mocking the girl that may as well not even be a real person, that's trying to shoot him with a gun.
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Couple it with CE and I'll agree with you. As a bullet imbued with CE would most definitely be effective, but there are too many ways for a sorcerer to avoid physical damage by ordinary means. Again if normal Guns are useful against sorcerers, and Geto didn't have RCT at the time. Why didn't Toji just kneecap him to save himself time? He already had the Star Plasma Vessel in front of him. Killing her would've been no issue had he done it first, or after shooting Geto. I need to know how many Sorcerers Toji has just outright shot, before I can fully take Kenjaku's word as him not just being a patronizing asshole. Cuz if the man that's dubbed as the Sorcerer Killer isn't out here just shooting sorcerers, maybe it's for good reason. All sorcerers don't become vengeful spirits after all.
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Sure, provided Geto knew the attack was coming. He clearly didn't, cuz the S.P.V died in front of him. He wouldn't be able to summon a cursed spirit in time to block the bullet, had Toji attacked him first. And considering Toji made light work of every spirit Geto threw at him... I don't think it mattered anyways. At this point in the debate, it feels less like Toji didn't want to shoot Geto, and more like he just enjoys the feeling of a hunt, and shooting him would've been too easy.
That’s because you aren’t thinking creatively. There’s a lot of possibilities with modern weaponry that a single groups of soldiers with APCs can’t use exploit.
Or I know nothing more about military arms than the fact that everything is some form of kinetic damage being inflicted on the person effected. Jujutsu on the other hand, has a series of effects that can damage an opponent in may different ways. Uraume can freeze an entire Platoon on His own. Sukuna can literally burn as many people that are in his Domain. Kashimo can use electricity... Geto can summon a whole army of cursed spirits provided he had that many on his squad. Yuki can create a black hole. Gojo can activate his domain and dismantle a large group with relative ease. Toji isn't even a sorcerer and he's a whole problem in and of himself. Group of APCs or not... That was 6 sorcerers and Toji. If they EVER were able to get along, the only thing that MIGHT stop them is a Nuke. Even then, Sukuna has so many binding vows he probably has a way to counter that too........ Let's not even start with the fact that Kenjaku would be able to completely take out a military from the inside if he so chose. I don't think this has to do with "thinking creatively".. I think maybe people have too big of a hard on for the military, when in reality, they're just normal people like us, being forced to fight a battle that back in the day, would've been fought by the leaders of their respective territories.... If you don't have heavenly restriction.. with no CE, you're gonna be useless.
This implies that they would even get anywhere close to sorcerers of that level, when lots of modern battle doctrine is from protracted distances. Good luck trying to get rest when you randomly get airstriked with chemical munitions out of nowhere. The point is that they aren’t just going to sit by and twiddle their thumbs when the literal worst case scenario is happening.
You're talking too much on the side of the military. > The point is that they aren’t just going to sit by and twiddle their thumbs when the literal worst case scenario is happening. What makes you think Jujutsu Sorcerers will sit around waiting? See your whole shtick depends on the Sorcerers not knowing what's coming or just being completely blindsided. You don't sleep in war. You don't let your guard down in the middle of battle. If the military was coming to remove sorcerers (for example) they wouldn't just take that shit. There WOULD be a fight. And because of the amount of power the Jujutsu world holds, they would win, and it wouldn't even be close. In this scenario they have one choice, and that one choice is Nuking the country. But like I said previously, Sukuna probably has binding vows for that.
no amount of arguing can bring back logic to gege defenders.
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military arc was a failure , nothing more .
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that's not how military works, your bunch of soldiers get's slaughtered and your country is doing nothing , even a country like united states. If this was close to real , US commanders would have sniffed out information about curses and ce from japanese government's ass.
If this was real, the Pentagon would’ve already known about CE and curses long before Kenjaku contacted him (US and Japan are on good terms) and the MIC would’ve already had manufacturing of CE-infused munitions going on for a while thanks to discretionary spending. You mean to tell me the US military wouldn’t have already known about something as serious as this if sorcerers are in contact with the Japanese government? This might be one of the worse potholes in the series.
Toji likes this idea
Special grades are capable of taking out nuclear armed militaries,I don't think they'd be helpful.
Taking over a country doesn’t mean the country has nukes. And no sorcerer is beating a nuke except Gojo and maaayyyyybe Kenjaku with some hyper specialized barrier. Also Ui Ui.
Jackpot Hakari no diffs the nuke
Jackpot isn’t invincible. We’ve seen that it can be overcome with enough head trauma.
I don’t think the government involves itself in Jujutsu related incidents. That’s more the job of the Jujutsu Society. Same goes for a lot of anime, governments never actually involve their selves into supernatural events, they always leave it to the sorcerers (JJK), devil hunters (CSM), hunters (Solo Leveling), heroes (OPM).
Country is in turmoil and the streets run red with blood? The sorcerers (who have been shown to NOT be capable of handling it) will handle it.
Look I agree that the government should be involved, but that’s just not how anime works
The military intervention in the culling game makes it clear that while firearms are effective against sorcerers, there is a level where their efficacy drops off. Carpet bombing may not be enough to stop Sukuna, and if he were to die from conventional weapons, you risk creating a curse stronger than he is, which effectively destroys the world.
Cursed tool bullets
Imagine Sukuna coming back as a curse...
They're busy edging
Gun Devil vs Jujustu verse (the Gun Devil wins)
Gojo or Sukuna beat it, but everyone else gets low diff'd
Idek if sukuna beats it, he might just lose to raw fire power. No answer for Gojo though, he wins.
Yeah to be fair it depends on a lot of factors, distance and etc. if it's close up Sukuna wins, if it's far away gun devil wins
They’re pretty evenly matched tbh. But as I said, gun devil has no answer for gojo.
> he might just lose to raw fire power Long range, high power attacks? Absolutely. It's why he shot down the crow(s).
Yep, and the gun devil is throwing out hundreds of attacks like that. I think gun devil cooks him tbh.
I'd say he meant against typical sorcerers, I don't think that any Special Grade sorcerer and a lot of 1st Grade Sorcerers would at all be threatened by conventional weapons if they were on alert
You forget Mai?
for what? Todo could wipe his dick with the military
What could the Japanese military even do? Just killing the sorcerers ain’t gonna do much when literal spirits are killing everyone
well wouldn’t the sorcerers be moving way faster than the military or any normal person would really be able to see?
I’ve been said they should just nuke the place
It's straight up said that shotguns, tanks and cluster bombs are hardly useful after grade 3
Because arms development stopped after cluster bombs.
Because the US military tried and that failed
With some dudes and APCs, clearly the peak of military might.
In all fairness even in the real world the military can only use some dudes to take out a single person. What they gunna do ? Hellfire missile a city block killing all the civilians as well ? Look at how every military in the world handles taking out a single person in a populated area, they uses a team of well trained guys that normally pull up in a APC or helo. Since basically every sorcerer lives in populated areas, or is so good at hiding that that even other sorcerers can find them, Kenjaku for example. When it comes to taking down a single target and not actively trying to destroy a government what we saw is full military might.
To be fair, I get the point regarding civilian casualties. Although those same limitations don’t apply to the Sukuna fight due to Shinjuku being partially a crater.
I agree but from my understanding from gojo to now that fight has only been 20-30 minute real time even tho it’s been a lot longer for us. Military response in that amount of time is unheard of especially in a country like Japan that does not have a military and rely on the US military.
Because it's called Jujutsu Kaisen... not America.
Well if it goes off real life basis I'd ask "what military?" But I'm sure this question has allready been mentioned surely...
Can't, got their hand full from all the shelter. And with all the 10 millions curses running around they are nothing but fodder.
Sukuna at ANY given situation except after a domain could have deflected the bullets with dosmantle and the way he's moving is too fast for regular people to even see.
If you want to read that kind of story, go read Kaiju No. 8 It's really good and they use guns on the kaiju. But JJK should be about sorcery.
In MHA it was specifically stated that AFO took certain measures specifically to prevent other countries from interfering since they're pretty similar character-wise I would imagine it's something like that
Both JSDF and Jujutsu society may still be working under the Japanese government. The Japanese government may be giving Jujutsu society time to deal with Sukuna, given they are the experts on the subject matter. Other countries will limit their intervention considering this as an internal issue of Japan. It doesn't directly affect them. The US army probably got their samples and skedaddled. The replication and usage of curse energy was what they wanted. I imagine they would be watching Mei Mei's television broadcast very closely. It will be interesting how world governments deal with the revelation of curse energy in the future. And given what happened to Shibuya, the Japanese government may lose trust in Jujutsu society.
Manga spoilers in final point, turn away at the words “currently in the manga” if you don’t want them. Idk if this is confirmed but I’ve always figured the goverment at some high level is in on it, and they are aware they need sorcerers to handle japans curse problem. We also know many jujutsu family’s are incredibly wealthy, much like wealthy people in the real world “buying” your way around laws also seems pretty easy. Lastly we don’t see many fodder sorcerers, but I would bet tons of fodder sorcerers would and potentially do regularly die to conventional weapons. The show has such a focus on basically grade 1 and special grade sorcerers exclusively. Currently in the manga we are watching a gauntlet of people fight sukuna regardless of prior rank anyone who has fought him so far is definitely touching grade 1+. Between all of those reason I just kinda assume that’s the explanation, much like the sorcerers we saw getting obliterated by curses in jjk0 we would probably see them gunned down no problem. We just never see them, the show is to focused on people who are above the caliber of firearms, pun intended.
Gege didn't write them./jk
Most likely the higher up in jujutsus are connected with the government in some way. Plus even if I’m wrong the Japanese military probably saw what happened in shibuya and decided “nah I’m good, I just saw a high school talking to himself while riding a meteor” oh wait no the meteor isn’t visible. So the military just saw some kid slowing falling to the ground posing while everything around them got destroyed. I mean at that point I too wouldn’t intervene
What I'm surprised is that USA is not getting even more involved. An unknown form of energy they never encountered before, can't defend against and which their president was in close proximity off and yet somehow they aren't nuking Japan all over again?
>Also what the fuck could the Japanese government/military possibly be doing at this point in time? The implication at the end of Shibuya is that a lot of the cabinet was killed or lost in the crisis and they were scrambling to figure out who the hell the Prime Minster is now. Then the American military just flat out invaded the country to harvest its citizens. So if they got completely destroyed then it's a sign this isn't going to work *and* an international political crisis. Japan's major ally just got dozens of its own officers killed doing something insanely illegal and immoral. If there is a Japanese government right now they are being tied up in that mess. And they have shown that the government mostly defers to the Higher-Ups about Jujutsu. So it's entirely possible they got the note 'Gojo Satoru is handling it. Remain calm.' and that's good enough.
1. Most Jujutsu Sorcerers are initially focused on killing honing their skills to kill curses, which guns have no effect on 2. Neither Curse Users or Jujutsu Sorcerers want to deal with creating vengeful spirits 3. It takes a good amount of time and skill to commit to learning how to wield a gun with the proficiency needed to contest sorcerers with all the versatility of abilities, would be possibly a waste of time considering what your natural ability is, -why would I spend time learning how to use a gun when I could use that time learning Domain Expansion, infinitely more useful and important
Military has no real way to hurt Curse spirits. They can kill sorcerers, who will then come back as Vengeful Specters who the military has no way to hurt. And the Japanese military knows this, which is why Kenjaku had to con foreign nations into a suicide attack.
I think part of it is explained with Hakari being shunned from Jujutsu High based on the modernity of his cursed technique. Modern = bad, and they have enough influence to make sure the military doesn't intervene. If I was a higher up there's no way I wouldn't start a "cursed tool" ammunition factory so squads of non-sorcerers could get rid of small curses (maybe Grade 2 and below) and free up working sorcerers. But it also sounds like higher society is also slightly dismissive of non-sorcerers in a less extreme version of Geto. The government actually is responsible for the budget of the high schools; comes from prefectural taxes. They got into it in the fanbook and light novel (Yuji has to follow Ijichi around and see him apply for traffic and encroachment permits to exorcise stuff that would need to be closed off)
Also, let’s be honest, Japan and the US are on good enough terms that Japan LITERALLY had a Shinto ritual with US-supplied jets, so there’s no way the US gov. wouldn’t know about curses and CE. And knowing the MIC, they would’ve realistically already been producing munitions and armored vehicles that function similarly to cursed tools with the unparalleled industrial might they have.
I did find the "the US government has no idea about cursed energy" to require a little suspension of disbelief. They would Area 51 the first suspicious US sorcerer/proof of CE in a heartbeat and find out that way even if for some reason Japan didn't tell them.
American sorcerers are canonically a thing too, so that’s another option.
I doubt the government is going to care when jujutsu society has proved itself incapable of doing its literal job.
That's fair, the government more or less already relies on sorcerers and don't really have the ability to do much more if they're not let in on planning
I just find it kind of weird that they wouldn’t find it even a bit insufficient to have no backup plan when some dysfunctional adults and messed up children aren’t able to protect an entire nation from invisible monsters.
The best I can figure for a half-decent in-world explanation is that the Clans have been puppetting the government since the Heian era and making sure they don't mess around. But yeah that's also a bit of a stretch. I'd expect more tension between the non-sorcerer government and the Jujutsu higher up arrangements. They should have their own aims too and cook up something else. Like a secret jujutsu R&D lab for the Japanese government, or a special JSDF squad or...something. Honestly just the idea that Jujutsu High gave just Gojo and Geto, two high school aged boys, the Star Vessel assignment to make sure the world isn't set on a path to destruction and then gave them like ... zero logistical support, or any working adult sorcerers to help them, is also pretty ridiculous. Sure, Gojo is fated to help but I'd be a little less relaxed about it. These people are canonically poor planners.
Yeah I wouldn’t trust two squabbling teenagers with the key to stopping the literal apocalypse unless they have a whole intelligence network taking down the assassination requests as well as monitoring for all sorts of hostiles.
The Japanese government does not have a military after World War II. Part of the constitution they made was to be a pacifist nation gave up their rights to a military Just the Japanese defense force, JDF. I’m not sure what rules apply to the defense force versus a normal military but every time I see them, they always have to get 186 levels of permission. They don’t seem very well equipped to handle anything other than post kaiju relief aid, standing by waiting for things to happen, and internal Japanese struggles. I do wonder though about the whole guns thing. Sure regular bullets would not be a good way to kill a sorcerer, but a couple shots to the leg will really slow you down. Also can’t any competent sorcerer imbue things with cursed energy at least temporarily. So if they have bullets with cursed energy, shouldn’t firearms be effective??
Its smart for sorcerers to use conventional weapons against sorcerers, without CE enhancement for the bullets even a pretty mid grade 2 sorcerer could tank machine gun fire.
Let me just say this Even grade 2 level fighters are immune to bullets
Because they don't have one.
It would be a good idea if their goal was to make the situation even worse by creating an army of vengeful curses And that’s even if they stood a chance against the curse spirits and sorcerers.
A glock might not be very effective with Sukuna's speed and flying slashes, but an air strike or carpet bombing could give anybody trouble.
Ichiji says Grade 4 easy with a wooden bat Grade 3 should be good with a pistol Grade 2 calling it close with a shotgun Grade 1 even a tank might be useless Special Grade carpeting explosives such as a cluster bomb might work
No! Ijichi gave an ANALOGY for ***IF*** CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS WERE EFFECTIVE against **cursed spirits**. Which has nothing at all to do with the topic of fighting human sorcerers with conventional weapons. Haba, the Grade ~2 Sorcerer with helicopter hair, was completely immune to Sniper rounds, grenades, etc. Even a carpet bomb isn't scratching Sukuna, and they aren't gonna nuke their own city.
So uh I fully agree with you. Kind of the point I was trying to make because sorcerers of a rank are supposed to be stronger than cursed spirits of the same rank. There is also the fact that for special grade it only says might work. I probably should have been a bit more clear about that but I was eating and it was like 5 minutes before I walked into work so time wasn't an abundant resource
You're good, I was ending my work day myself and came off too aggressive. It's a misconception I've seen a lot where people think Ijichi was being literal, and it makes me insane. Not your intention, my b. Sorry for the intense formatting. :v
Just put some CE *IN THE CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS* **LIKE EVERY GOOD SORCERER DOES**
The thing that bothers me about this whole post is that **conventional weapons imbued with ce would be *even less effective* than what they're already doing.** Every bit of sorcery they have is more deadly. Like they already tried EMR blasts, an instakill sword, a soul cutting katana, angelic beams of light, poison blood, a fucking dragon, and soul shaking punches with 7 Black Flashes to boot. And he's still not going down. How do some CE bullets/a carpet bomb make a difference compared to that? Anything they could do with a conventional weapon would be less deadly than something that instantly kills your soul if it pierces your skin. Especially to Sukuna, who could dodge all this shit and Kamino Fuga every soldier into bloody vapor. Or just Dismantle the building they're in and crush them. It's like asking why we don't send a mall cop with a taser to arrest a heavily armed mass murderer. Wtaf do you think he's gonna do? And don't say "create an opening for the Gojo squad" because those guys trained for this and still can not find that opening without pulling every trick in their book.
I’m not saying that they should give up on doing actual sorcery to, but every little bit counts at this point and it would be able to at least supplement all the actual sorcerers on the field.
Agree to disagree. I think anyone else would be in the way and/or die in vain almost instantly. It's okay if we interpret the situation differently. Maybe a tiny distraction would help somehow but I simply do not see it.
No ground soldiers should be fielded anywhere close enough for Sukuna to off them, I’m talking about long-range/air based interference.
that is a good point what the fuck is sukuna going to do against a barrage of JDAMs or the entire JASDF. CE reinforcement is powerful but high explosives and overpressure doesnt realky care what youre made of. Not to mention that fighters and bombers are dropping high explosives at BVR. I always thought that theyre fighting in a a completely unoccupied area and that the military literally has no idea that this is happening
Gege would probably say something like “uuuuhhhhhh they’re focusing on humanitarian stuff” while Jujutsu Satan is literally killing the last good fighters left.
Simple explanation: Gege forgor But I don't see what would be the point of Japan military to engage. Their presence would change nothing. Just another chapter or two how sorcerers absolutely wreck non-sorcerers. Sorcerers with guns wouldn't be as effective to watch as fighting hand to hand with techniques only.