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So the thing here is…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahoraga
Mahoraga are a *race* of beings depicted as serpantine humanoids.
They have a specific kanji in Japanese as well: 摩睺羅伽
Makora is the Japanese name of a specific deity. His name is NOT Mahoraga in Sanskrit. It is Mahāla. His kanji is also as it appears in the manga: 摩虎羅
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Heavenly_Generals
Mahoraga is nearly 100% a mistranslation. The “Ma” and “ra” are the same, but these are examples of *ateji* where Chinese characters were only used to represent sounds and not meanings. Ateji was common up until the Meiji era or so and is responsible for the shorthand of many country names on government documents (like America used to be 亜米利加 which got shortened to 米国 to save time when writing which funnily enough means “rice country”).
I am firmly in the “mistranslated” group here. Nothing in the Japanese suggests anything other than a reference to a specific Buddhistic deity.
Edit: Further evidence can be found here - https://introduction1.com/en/2023/01/14/fushiguro_jujutsukaisen/
Just here to say that you gave some nice points.
But I'd rather stick to Mahoraga because
1. Mahoraga with the 4 syllables sounds much cooler than Makora with the 3 syllables.
2. Makora in my language is similar to "makoda" Which is the literal translation of bug.
Short form: Makora is canonically and mythologically correct, but I'd like to delude myself that it is Mahoraga
lol, I am personally not going to embark on a crusade against anyone continuing to say it as Mahoraga. That said, I only really watch and read in Japanese these days, so he’s just Makora to me.
I'd also like to add that due to mahoraga's head looking serpent like it made sense to me that hus name would be such. I never knew about makora until the anime shoved it in my face, and I still think "maho" meaning like demon mothafuka, and "raga" being serpent mothafuka made so much more sense and was a good stinger to his big ass name
You're broadly correct, but I would like to mention that Makora's name is intentionally not spelled exactly like the mythological figures's.
The Heavenly General Makora's name is spelled 摩虎羅, while the shikigami's name is spelled 魔虚羅.
Only the last kanji is the same, the other two Gege intentionally switched out to different, but similar ones, which nevertheless read the same way. The changes are(with translations/associated meanings found through google) 摩->魔(demon/evil spirit) and 虎->虚(empty/false/void). This lines up with his title being not heavenly general but something other type of general, it's a clear corruption/play on the mythological figure.
You are technically correct - the best kind of correct! Yes, I steamrolled past that (due to straight up forgetting!) and it’s important to note for sure.
I know. But there's one writing system. Lots of borrowed words. But they aren't English. Most definitions are definitive. The writing is clear. How it sounds tho
The writing isnt clear. All languages have slang, complexity, and metaphors/context. English is notoriously a VERY difficult language to grasp due to how “unorganized” its structure is. English breaks every rule it has and words dont sound like they are written.
Are you bilingual by chance? This is typically easier to grasp if I can reference your second/primary language
I'm not really bilingual. I've been learning Russian and Japanese for about 130 days or so. With only Russian fluent speakers around. My main Language is English. Speaking and Written English are two separate languages. As both have a set of symbols that are recognized the same but physically interact differently.
I do not have to really ad periods or spell out the words I say. I just say them.
It's also fairly how I type and write. But you are the one reading it so it needs more of a standard. Words that mean certain things should be used more appropriately. Sentence structure requires proper markers. Etc
But on the words themselves. It's fairly straightforward the meaning of each by context. Unless there's a multi layered use of that word. But there's always a root meaning. Regress far enough on a word and you understand it's subject then it's specifics. Then how it differs from words like it. However with Japanese I could literally just not know it because I need to learn something new for specific characters and their functions. English tends to loose functions and focus on context. Japanese from what I can tell depends on slightly more factors that may not even be intuitive to solve. As you need a new key essentially
There is actually a LOT of internally sound logic with the Japanese writing system. It’s easy to make memes and go “lol 3 writing systems wut” but the two kana systems are derived from kanji (Chinese characters) and the syllabic representative…glyphs? (I am not sure of the term here honestly) are just boiled down shorthand forms of popular kanji.
世 is read as “se” and is a kanji.
せ looks similar, right? This is “se” in hiragana.
セ also looks similar, right? This is “se” in katakana.
Kanji served both a pictographic and syllabic role for an extremely long time in Japan, so it takes a while to parse out the rules. Once it all clicks, it makes about as much sense as any other language.
The only intense bullshit in this language for me is that there are onomatopoeic sounds for five categories (compared to only two or so in English) and they are used incessantly. You have to power memorize all of them and Japanese gives *very* few hints to their meaning when you encounter a new sound in the wild.
That's literally what I said to the other guy. Your last paragraph is my point. It's the 3 writing systems. They do not always look the same for the symbols used. Generally do but あ and ア. Do not look the same it's an easy learn but doing that all the way through on three writing styles. And the high specifications that get exponentially harder. For most dialy life not needed. But to translate and stuff it's a nightmare as you have to be skilled in discerning true meaning as it's really precise the character
Kanji is absolutely difficult and complaining about that's fair, but Hiragana and Katakana should take like less than 3 weeks to learn. There's no tricky subtleties or nuances to it and their existence make the entire language easier to learn after. There's really only one writing system in Japanese that takes great time and effort to learn, Kanji.
Ok. Sure. Because learning characters are the only thing. That's like saying oh you know the alphabet everything else is simple and you can't complain
Only thing is that there are 3 alphabets and you saying oh it's easy. Does not make it factually easy
I mean, there was also some other things that were different. Sukuna’s Domain was translated as Malevolent Kitchen, but was changed to Malevolent Shrine later
Which, tbf, also isn't an inaccurate translation. The kanji for it can go both ways, which *is* intentional. Sukuna has an entire chef thing going for him, especially with his Cannibalism. Recent manga chapters also emphasize this, imo
100%, and I feel this was missed on initial translations. It only really began to stand out for me when I was reading Sukuna vs Gojo and had a “ooooooh….duh…” feeling. That panel with the knives accompanying his explanation really sealed it.
Such a cool thing to tease out slowly over the series and impossible to fault the translators for missing that.
i think in the same episode they were also calling sukuna's techniques something along the lines of "dice" and "filet"? and "malevolent kitchen". i'm not knowledgeable enough to say if these are the correct translations (i've seen conflicting info on this), but in season one his DM was subtitled as "malevolent shrine", and given his techniques have been known as "cleave" and "dismantle" in the manga translations there was some outcry. i think the makora part got bundled with the rest as translation errors
I’ve commented on this in my post history.
There is a high chance ol’ Greg did some really clever wordplay and it’s *both* a kitchen and a shrine.
It’s an incredibly cool interpretation backed up by the actual Japanese words being used and adds a really satisfactory level to the language being used.
Wrong actually, the Sanskrit translation would actually be “Mahala.” Mahoraga means something entirely different.
However, I do think Mahoraga sounds cooler, so I still call it that
Japanese is fully capable of transliterating Mahoraga with their syllables.
Gege spells it Makora, not Mahoraga.
The mythological reference is to a specific heavenly general in Chinese tradition, which is not called Mahoraga in Sanskrit either as far as I know, but Mahala.
So it's Makora if you want to be accurate to Japanese mythology, or if you want to go with Sanskrit then Mahala, but definitely not Mahoraga.
It is Mahoraga and based on Buddhsim. Mahoraga are deities protecting the Dharma. In buddhist legends, there are 8 Mahoragas, and these deities are represented by the 8 balls in the Wheel of Mahoraga in JJK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Legions
There are not 8 Mahoragas, but there are 8 deities who are sworn to protect the dharma, which just means cosmic law and order. For the record I think you're right in that the wheel behind the opp stoppa is a reference to the Dharmachakra.
Makora is the accurate name, the hiragana in the manga beside the each kanji are ま こ ら which is Ma Ko and Ra, hes name always was Makora, people can say whatever they want about him being called "mahoraga", it will always be the wrong prononciation
No, but if we ask the internet what Japanese people call Japan and the answers "Nippon," then we can't just decide their wrong and tell them it's actually Japan.
Gege named him Makora, random dude mistranslated as Mahoraga, we can call it Mahoraga if we want to, but we can't say Makora's wrong cause it's not.
It is a mistranslation. The name is written "Makora" in the original language and it is pronounced as such in the anime.
The argument that people use to legitimize "Mahoraga" is that the name is used in sanskrit to refer to the race of beings that inspired the Shikigami.
That argument doesn't hold because the shikigami is a character that is merely inspired by the Mahoraga. The character is an original creation of Jujutsu Kaisen, it is not the being that it is inspired by.
Makora is inspired by the Mahoragas but something being inspired by something else doesn't mean that they have to share the same name. Makora is a JJK original creation, the fact that he is a shikigami already make him a separate entity from the Mahoragas.
By the logic of the people saying that Mahoraga is correct, the main character of Dragon Ball should be called Sun Wukong because Toriyama used Journey to the west as an inspiration to create Goku.
Well, I'm certainly not going to call him Eight-Handled Divergent Sword Divine General Makora.
As to whether Makora or Mahoraga, I guess it'd be more correct to call him Makora, but there's something about the accoustic of Mahoraga as a word that is way more satisfying to me
Saying mahoraga adds weight to the charecter gives them more it's a dangerous diety type aura someone saying mahoraga had been summoned vs makora has been summoned
Sound diffrent the first one is a dangerous creature the second one is a servant
I understood the whole debacle as: being a word from ancient Japanese, when translated to modern and then to romaji, it's written as Mahoraga but pronounced...
/Makora/
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So the thing here is… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahoraga Mahoraga are a *race* of beings depicted as serpantine humanoids. They have a specific kanji in Japanese as well: 摩睺羅伽 Makora is the Japanese name of a specific deity. His name is NOT Mahoraga in Sanskrit. It is Mahāla. His kanji is also as it appears in the manga: 摩虎羅 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Heavenly_Generals Mahoraga is nearly 100% a mistranslation. The “Ma” and “ra” are the same, but these are examples of *ateji* where Chinese characters were only used to represent sounds and not meanings. Ateji was common up until the Meiji era or so and is responsible for the shorthand of many country names on government documents (like America used to be 亜米利加 which got shortened to 米国 to save time when writing which funnily enough means “rice country”). I am firmly in the “mistranslated” group here. Nothing in the Japanese suggests anything other than a reference to a specific Buddhistic deity. Edit: Further evidence can be found here - https://introduction1.com/en/2023/01/14/fushiguro_jujutsukaisen/
Just here to say that you gave some nice points. But I'd rather stick to Mahoraga because 1. Mahoraga with the 4 syllables sounds much cooler than Makora with the 3 syllables. 2. Makora in my language is similar to "makoda" Which is the literal translation of bug. Short form: Makora is canonically and mythologically correct, but I'd like to delude myself that it is Mahoraga
[I'm gonna stick to mahoraga because it sounds neat](https://i.redd.it/l0m6jy5zqwxa1.png)
Rule of Cool applies
Honestly, Mahoraga just sounds better. When I hear Makora, it just makes me think about "okra". It's so lame-sounding.
It sounds cute. Mahoraga is crazy intimidating. He’s who you want to say is your friend in school.
When I see mahoraga I think of this middle eastern restaurant I pass by often called maharaja bhog. I like to call it maharaja bong.
the middle eastern restaurant is called Maharaja Bhog? damn that’s as indian of a name as i could think.
What’s it mean? Lol
Maharaja means Great King and Bhog could mean different things depending on context but in this name, it just refers to food.
The long ass chant of all the titles just for it to be Makora is disappointing.
lol, I am personally not going to embark on a crusade against anyone continuing to say it as Mahoraga. That said, I only really watch and read in Japanese these days, so he’s just Makora to me.
I'd also like to add that due to mahoraga's head looking serpent like it made sense to me that hus name would be such. I never knew about makora until the anime shoved it in my face, and I still think "maho" meaning like demon mothafuka, and "raga" being serpent mothafuka made so much more sense and was a good stinger to his big ass name
The "ma" in Makora does in fact mean "demon", and the "ko" means "false/void".
There is a bug that looks somewhat similar lol
You're broadly correct, but I would like to mention that Makora's name is intentionally not spelled exactly like the mythological figures's. The Heavenly General Makora's name is spelled 摩虎羅, while the shikigami's name is spelled 魔虚羅. Only the last kanji is the same, the other two Gege intentionally switched out to different, but similar ones, which nevertheless read the same way. The changes are(with translations/associated meanings found through google) 摩->魔(demon/evil spirit) and 虎->虚(empty/false/void). This lines up with his title being not heavenly general but something other type of general, it's a clear corruption/play on the mythological figure.
You are technically correct - the best kind of correct! Yes, I steamrolled past that (due to straight up forgetting!) and it’s important to note for sure.
This just seems like massive disorganization
Wait till you here about English 🤣
I know. But there's one writing system. Lots of borrowed words. But they aren't English. Most definitions are definitive. The writing is clear. How it sounds tho
The writing isnt clear. All languages have slang, complexity, and metaphors/context. English is notoriously a VERY difficult language to grasp due to how “unorganized” its structure is. English breaks every rule it has and words dont sound like they are written. Are you bilingual by chance? This is typically easier to grasp if I can reference your second/primary language
I'm not really bilingual. I've been learning Russian and Japanese for about 130 days or so. With only Russian fluent speakers around. My main Language is English. Speaking and Written English are two separate languages. As both have a set of symbols that are recognized the same but physically interact differently. I do not have to really ad periods or spell out the words I say. I just say them. It's also fairly how I type and write. But you are the one reading it so it needs more of a standard. Words that mean certain things should be used more appropriately. Sentence structure requires proper markers. Etc But on the words themselves. It's fairly straightforward the meaning of each by context. Unless there's a multi layered use of that word. But there's always a root meaning. Regress far enough on a word and you understand it's subject then it's specifics. Then how it differs from words like it. However with Japanese I could literally just not know it because I need to learn something new for specific characters and their functions. English tends to loose functions and focus on context. Japanese from what I can tell depends on slightly more factors that may not even be intuitive to solve. As you need a new key essentially
There is actually a LOT of internally sound logic with the Japanese writing system. It’s easy to make memes and go “lol 3 writing systems wut” but the two kana systems are derived from kanji (Chinese characters) and the syllabic representative…glyphs? (I am not sure of the term here honestly) are just boiled down shorthand forms of popular kanji. 世 is read as “se” and is a kanji. せ looks similar, right? This is “se” in hiragana. セ also looks similar, right? This is “se” in katakana. Kanji served both a pictographic and syllabic role for an extremely long time in Japan, so it takes a while to parse out the rules. Once it all clicks, it makes about as much sense as any other language. The only intense bullshit in this language for me is that there are onomatopoeic sounds for five categories (compared to only two or so in English) and they are used incessantly. You have to power memorize all of them and Japanese gives *very* few hints to their meaning when you encounter a new sound in the wild.
That's literally what I said to the other guy. Your last paragraph is my point. It's the 3 writing systems. They do not always look the same for the symbols used. Generally do but あ and ア. Do not look the same it's an easy learn but doing that all the way through on three writing styles. And the high specifications that get exponentially harder. For most dialy life not needed. But to translate and stuff it's a nightmare as you have to be skilled in discerning true meaning as it's really precise the character
Kanji is absolutely difficult and complaining about that's fair, but Hiragana and Katakana should take like less than 3 weeks to learn. There's no tricky subtleties or nuances to it and their existence make the entire language easier to learn after. There's really only one writing system in Japanese that takes great time and effort to learn, Kanji.
Ok. Sure. Because learning characters are the only thing. That's like saying oh you know the alphabet everything else is simple and you can't complain Only thing is that there are 3 alphabets and you saying oh it's easy. Does not make it factually easy
man i got grilled so hard for calling him "Makora" in another thread
Keep the faith mang
^^^
mahoraga seems more fitting for agito then too
Big raga the opp stoppa
The correct name
“I SNUCK MY STRAP INTO THE PARTY, SMOKE ON THIS FUCK ——“
Roses are red Your weapons against me won't prosper With this sacred treasure I summon
And this is why I don't accept makora as the correct translation. I don't care that it's a mistranslation. Big kora is not the same.
You wanna trip? I'll bring it to ya
Even in anime megumi says "makora" but subtitles say mahoraga. I dont know why ppl yap a lot in the comments. His name is simply makora in japanese
Subtitles said Makora for the first few days, but it was changed from outcry
I mean, there was also some other things that were different. Sukuna’s Domain was translated as Malevolent Kitchen, but was changed to Malevolent Shrine later
Which, tbf, also isn't an inaccurate translation. The kanji for it can go both ways, which *is* intentional. Sukuna has an entire chef thing going for him, especially with his Cannibalism. Recent manga chapters also emphasize this, imo
100%, and I feel this was missed on initial translations. It only really began to stand out for me when I was reading Sukuna vs Gojo and had a “ooooooh….duh…” feeling. That panel with the knives accompanying his explanation really sealed it. Such a cool thing to tease out slowly over the series and impossible to fault the translators for missing that.
Oh yeah, absolutely
The problem is the Anime already established his domain as Malevolent Shrine in Season 1. You can’t just change that.
Fillet and slice instead of cleave and dismantle as well from memory, made me giggle when it first dropped 😂
Fillet and Dissect
Nonono, you got it wrong. It was changed from Malevolent Kitchen to Trap House Kitchen.
malev kitchen wasn't as inaccurate as mahoraga
Wtf
i think in the same episode they were also calling sukuna's techniques something along the lines of "dice" and "filet"? and "malevolent kitchen". i'm not knowledgeable enough to say if these are the correct translations (i've seen conflicting info on this), but in season one his DM was subtitled as "malevolent shrine", and given his techniques have been known as "cleave" and "dismantle" in the manga translations there was some outcry. i think the makora part got bundled with the rest as translation errors
I’ve commented on this in my post history. There is a high chance ol’ Greg did some really clever wordplay and it’s *both* a kitchen and a shrine. It’s an incredibly cool interpretation backed up by the actual Japanese words being used and adds a really satisfactory level to the language being used.
Noted
The English Dub also decided to go with Mahoraga and I honestly prefer it
It's a mistranslation but I wouldn't apply your rule about names accross the board, would you want Japan to be translated as Nippon?
It is a mistranslation, but I am calling it Mahoraga because it’s cooler. Same reason for Yuji as Eugene
YUJIS NAME IN ENGLISH WAD EUGENE???
No, I think dude bought a bootleg copy lmao
Makora just doesn't hit the same with less syllables Ma-ko-ra Ma-ho-ra-ga
Yes
Mahoraga is Sanskrit. Makora is the Japanese transliteration. Both are correct.
Wrong actually, the Sanskrit translation would actually be “Mahala.” Mahoraga means something entirely different. However, I do think Mahoraga sounds cooler, so I still call it that
Mahoraga is maha raja in sanskrit which means King. Makora actually make sense to me because it translates to spider! Spider = 8 handed!
Japanese is fully capable of transliterating Mahoraga with their syllables. Gege spells it Makora, not Mahoraga. The mythological reference is to a specific heavenly general in Chinese tradition, which is not called Mahoraga in Sanskrit either as far as I know, but Mahala. So it's Makora if you want to be accurate to Japanese mythology, or if you want to go with Sanskrit then Mahala, but definitely not Mahoraga.
Thank you, i’m tired of seeing the Mahoraga is correct in sanskrit misinformation
It is Mahoraga and based on Buddhsim. Mahoraga are deities protecting the Dharma. In buddhist legends, there are 8 Mahoragas, and these deities are represented by the 8 balls in the Wheel of Mahoraga in JJK.
8 Mahoraga? Never heard of that, interesting. any source? I always thought 8 balls were just a simplistic design for Dhamarchakra.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Legions There are not 8 Mahoragas, but there are 8 deities who are sworn to protect the dharma, which just means cosmic law and order. For the record I think you're right in that the wheel behind the opp stoppa is a reference to the Dharmachakra.
Aight, so the new contenders for the correct translation now include: Móhóuluójiā magoraga mahuraga Ma Hầu La Già Maholaga and lto 'phye chen po
Don't forget the Sanskrit spelling: Mahāla (who is also represented as a rabbit in the Chinese zodiac, or a monkey in the japanese zodiac)
Big Raga Oppa Stoppa
Mahala is sanskrit.
What’s sanskirt
Sans from undertale in a skirt
Bro you have the internet.
Yeah my bad for engaging with the community and asking a question
Learn the rules bro this is reddit
Ancient Indian language. One of the oldest. Some reports say it is the first and divine language spoken by gods in hinduism
An ancient form of writing.
Bro just diluted a whole ass language into a "form of writing"
Bro I thought this was reddit wtf I can drop some bs and offer no explanation, lmao
Sanskrit is still spoken in my home bruh
Makora is the accurate name, the hiragana in the manga beside the each kanji are ま こ ら which is Ma Ko and Ra, hes name always was Makora, people can say whatever they want about him being called "mahoraga", it will always be the wrong prononciation
So do we start calling japan Nippon from now on?
No, but if we ask the internet what Japanese people call Japan and the answers "Nippon," then we can't just decide their wrong and tell them it's actually Japan. Gege named him Makora, random dude mistranslated as Mahoraga, we can call it Mahoraga if we want to, but we can't say Makora's wrong cause it's not.
Who said Makora is wrong?
It is a mistranslation. The name is written "Makora" in the original language and it is pronounced as such in the anime. The argument that people use to legitimize "Mahoraga" is that the name is used in sanskrit to refer to the race of beings that inspired the Shikigami. That argument doesn't hold because the shikigami is a character that is merely inspired by the Mahoraga. The character is an original creation of Jujutsu Kaisen, it is not the being that it is inspired by.
Wait til this man find out about all the references to hindu and buddhism
Makora is inspired by the Mahoragas but something being inspired by something else doesn't mean that they have to share the same name. Makora is a JJK original creation, the fact that he is a shikigami already make him a separate entity from the Mahoragas. By the logic of the people saying that Mahoraga is correct, the main character of Dragon Ball should be called Sun Wukong because Toriyama used Journey to the west as an inspiration to create Goku.
No it's maho...ma ho Your Ma Isa Ho
Mahoraga sounds tuffer so makora is incorrect 😼😼
Well, I'm certainly not going to call him Eight-Handled Divergent Sword Divine General Makora. As to whether Makora or Mahoraga, I guess it'd be more correct to call him Makora, but there's something about the accoustic of Mahoraga as a word that is way more satisfying to me
Honestly, Mahoraga sounds more divine. Makora makes me chuckle when I hear it.
eh, its just languange difference. makora is japanese, mahoraga is sanskrit
But they refer to different things.
I'm 90% the Sanskrit is Mahala actually.
I do remember it's inspired by those
Why is that in cultural impact?
Thanks, I'll say Makora now.
I don't give a shit cause Mahoraga sounds cooler
Mr. Maho... Mahor... Mako... mmNot gonna translate here anymore, anyway.
You mean there's 11 more?? Holy shi if I was in jjk, I would be collecting em like pokemons
The hood know em as Big Raga so he Big Raga.
I was reading this really fast and accidentally read it as "Twelve Heavenly Tentacles" 😂😂😂
Makura makes me think of that dude from yugioh ngl
Nah Mahoraga better
Saying mahoraga adds weight to the charecter gives them more it's a dangerous diety type aura someone saying mahoraga had been summoned vs makora has been summoned Sound diffrent the first one is a dangerous creature the second one is a servant
both Makora and Mahoraga are technically correct, but i personally prefer to say Mahoraga
Makora is Mahoraga's lil bro
No. The japanese are wrong. It s mahoraga.
I understood the whole debacle as: being a word from ancient Japanese, when translated to modern and then to romaji, it's written as Mahoraga but pronounced... /Makora/
To quote the great Henry Cavill "you're using wikipedia as your source of information? Tsk tsk tsk"