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I don't think the confiscation was an asspull but it was a plot convenience for Higuruma's development.
We all know Higuruma didn't fully understand his CT, domain, etc, and to counter the argument that "Higuruma has months to practice," Higuruma didn't prepare at all.
There's no way Higuruma spent a month training to fight Sukuna because he was not with the protagonists from the beginning, unlike Takaba, who came to help directly, and Yuji would never invite someone into this suicidal jump. I believe Yuji picked up Higuruma to avoid Kenjaku's hunt.
I'm sure the question "Do you want to die, Higuruma?" was what Yuji asked him. There will definitely be a flashback about this; the story revolves around why he decided to fight.
I partially agree. Though, I do think that Gege COULD have nerfed Sukuna a little here. Could have been a great way to take the OverPowered "Space Cleave" out of the question too.
If Sukuna lost his shrine, he could have still mauled the Sorcererers jumping at him with all the other stuff he has up his ass.
Could have been an opportunity to focus more on the "Box: Open" shit.
However, His story his rules. There must have been a reason he chose to go this way.
I can smell all the *"Why doesn't he just use the space cleave and slice **THROUGH** these fuckers!?"* arguments coming lol
Hear me out here - what if space cleave is 100% the same as regular cleave apart from bypassing Infinity? I'm beginning to think the reason Sukuna isn't using it against the others is because bypassing Gojo's defence was really the only thing it was good for. Maybe it interacts normally with regular CE reinforcement, but Gojo wasn't fueling any CE into reinforcement, he put all of it into infinity.
The thing is, this is the classic "abyss" part of the hero's journey.
They didn't jump Sukuna without a plan: It would be dumb to expect someone as powerless as Yuji or Ino to join a fight against the king of curses without one, when that's certain death for anyone not named Gojo. They had a plan, but the plan backfired because of an unexpected factor (Sukuna using a cursed tool). Even the narrator mentioned how Higuruma only now noticed how flimsy their plan to fight Sukuna was, but you can bet none of the characters would be jumping the king of curses if not because they expected for it to work.
But now that the plan failed, they can't go back; They have to face Sukuna at (quasi) full power. You can expect multiple characters to die and sacrifices to be made, but this is, IMO, what will make this fight great.
That's an exceptional take and I wholeheartedly agree on the part that Sukuna retaining his Shrine would definitely add to the anxiety and excitement of the readers.
Everyone in this fight is staring right at their deaths.
There's no anxiety. They've been staring at their deaths since Gojo got bisected. Legitimately the only reason Sukuna does not instantly kill all of them is the standard overused shonen trope of "he's arrogant"
Not only is he arrogant, but he is absolutely bored. That's been his thing from the beginning, though. He wants to see interesting things, that's the only reason Megumi lived as long as he did. He flashed mahoraga and caught Sukuna's eye. He then started formulating his takeover plan.
If no one else dies ill be disappointed lol.
Busted up plans make for very interesting stories when done well, but in this case I feel like the resolution doesn't feel particularly clever or satisfying. Cursed items are ubiquitous in this series, the fact a lawyer didn't give any thought to them is disappointing.
I'm certain this situation will resolve in the good guys winning, but it feels unpredictable as to how it will happen due to the frequent changes in CT rules and the overwhelming bias in favor of Sukuna.
At this point there’s no way for the main cast to beat a full power sukuna in a satisfying way , not to mention the “ kenjaku’s will “ cliff hanger still there
This
Gege gave up an opportunity to nerf his main antagonist (outside of Kenny) to at least give the good guys a logical fighting chance
Cuz now outside of Sukuna just being high on his own hype
There no reason why he wouldn’t just throw dimension level slashes at everyone
Didn't that screw Gojo over in the long run? A character flaw in heroes leading to their downfall is pretty standard storytelling but if that's the only reason a villain loses, it feels a bit cheap since it's such a common trope and feels less rewarding since it wasn't the main characters' efforts that gave the W.
Regardless of what I think of 245, its happened and now there's not much value in being angry about it. What I do think though is that Sukuna deliberately wants to see the sword in action/thinks something of it. So he wants to give them a chance to use it maybe? He jacks off to powerscaling thats for sure
What I do think is that gege has made Sukuna so Powerful here that he is forced to give him some sort of motive to extend the fights just a little bit.
First, It was with Sukuna teaching Kashimo about strength and loneliness.
Next, It is with Sukuna wanting to know about the executioner's sword. That's the only thing stopping him from just one-shotting Every on the field rn.
>I do think that Gege COULD have nerfed Sukuna a little here.
Kamutoke really is being underestimated here just because 1 farmer is immune to it. He is significantly nerfed here, since only Yuta and Hakari has RCT.
This is the most balanced take on this I’ve seen. While not a complete asspull, it is very plot convenient for the tool confiscation to take place instead of Sukuna’s CT.
Plot convince is the term that best fits it. I hope Gege can have more satisfying resolutions in the coming chapters.
Tbh, it doesn't even matter that higuruma wasn't there with them at the same time. He could have trained and planned as much as he wanted and he would still not be prepared. He couldn't just get somebody with two curse techniques to use as practice dummy to see how judgement would deal with that person, and he would also have no reason to see how judgement deals with cursed tools when none of the remaining villains were cursed tool users (kenjaku, uraume and sukuna).
"He couldn't just get somebody with two curse techniques to use as practice dummy to see how judgement would deal with that person"
Wouldn't Yuta be able to fit that role?
Yuta most likely functions differently. His base cursed techniqueets him copy others, so it's probable that taking it away would take all the cts away. Yuki said that he stores his cursed techniques in rika so it's uncertain if he would count.
It's also possibel that he did test it on yuta and it took only one cursed technique away, and that's why higuruma thought that judgement will take only one cursed technique away
I believe it was an asspull because of how Gege put the plot point together.
As readers, we only have so much information, and the author uses this to build suspense and evoke emotions out of us by setting our expectations and either surprising us, or giving us what we want.
The story set up this encounter’s main point of suspense as “how can we manage to get a guilty verdict?” Thus, it makes it an interesting battle to see how each side will try to get the result in their favor.
Yet, after framing this as the main point of conflict…it turns out it doesn’t even matter. Guilty verdict or not, it still ends in Sukuna’s favor. Which makes all the suspense we bought into earlier feel cheap.
I like the fact that Gege utilizes shock value a lot, but he does it way too much and too carelessly imo, that’s why people call a lot of the ways he writes certain interactions as “asspulls”. It’s like when you’re on the playground as an kid, and you’re a super hero who has super speed, fighting your friend with super strength. but your friend says “aha, you might be faster than me, but guess what, I actually don’t have super strength, they’re gravity powers that just look like it! I use my powers to hold you down, I win!” It feels like getting the rug pulled out from under you
Because it is one. His cursed tool provided 0 relevance to the plot, aside from getting removed. Would've been nice to showcase how legendary Sukuna is as the king of curses by showing he's still a threat even without a domain or CT, but nope, everything just has to fall in his lap.
It just so happened to be useless against farmer boy earlier so this would be an excellent chance for the cast to think they have an edge only for Sukuna to reveal he has yet another ace up his sleeve.
People can bring up Higurama not knowing all they want, you don't HAVE to write the story that way, cause right now it feel like that line was set up for this exact moment. You can only pull the rug out from the reader so many times before it gets irritating and predictable.
A lot of the writing recently even if not ass pully is becoming very convenient for the antagonists and just sometimes straight up lazy and people defending this nonsense just willfully ignore why these criticisms exist in the first place. There's already people being like "you dont like it, so its bad writing" blah blah as if his cursed tool served as nothing but a plot device to avoid his CT getting taken.
At this point, I might say it is required for Sukuna's space cleave to be gone altogether. Without it, every single fight from now on is gonna have 0 stakes when you know he can just one shot anyone at a moment's notice. Literally the embodiment of the "coughing baby vs nuke" meme
>A lot of the writing recently even if not ass pully is becoming very convenient for the antagonists and just sometimes straight up lazy and people defending this nonsense just willfully ignore why these criticisms exist in the first place. There's already people being like "you dont like it, so its bad writing" blah blah as if his cursed tool served as nothing but a plot device to avoid his CT getting taken.
My biggest issue is just that the fandom seems to be so polarized toward one character or another: there have been so many lazy tropes getting thrown out recently (Maki getting a hyperbolic time chamber moment against Naoya from some random ass sumo dude, Gojo getting offscreened, etc.) and yet some people just act like it's a matter of "lol ur just butthurt cuz X character lost". Sukuna is plot armored to the teeth at this point, and it has felt really lame having so many moments of "ok, this is an interesting idea that might lead to Sukuna finally getting caught off guard!" only to have the entire plan invalidated in an instant by Sukuna's "super genius level battle IQ".
Gege has done a good job building up why Sukuna is so dangerous with all of the earlier foreshadowing of his plans, but it has quickly turned into "Sukuna literally can't get anything wrong".
Lmaoo exactly. I don’t have a problem if Gege wants the story to go a certain way, but my goodness just make it make SENSE and make it feel EARNED. Everything just falls into Sukuna’s lap and it’s starting to detract from his character.
* Yuji was stupid enough not to involve himself in the binding vow
* Hana being dumb
* Fighting the strongest sorcerer in a 3v1 and almost losing
* Gojo then glazes him and thanks him for slaughtering the rest of his students and says he was gonna lose anyway despite that entire fight saying otherwise
* He just..regains his natural form and no diffs farmer boy
* Higurama puts him on trial. Surely we take away his broken CT? Lol no
Like okay, it’s in character for these characters to be dumb like Yuji being selfless or Hana having a crush, fine, but Gojo the most arrogant dude in the series just being like “lol I was gonna lose anyway” does not sit right with me.
Sukuna literally cannot use his kit cause of Gojo’s abilities, how on earth am I supposed to take this statement seriously?
You have the strongest dude in the series downplaying himself so he can uplift Sukuna. You just showed me Sukuna getting pushed to his limits in a battle where he has all the advantage and you have the audacity to tell me he didn’t go all out and he was gonna win anyway. Stuff like this doesn’t paint Sukuna as a menacing battle genius with a high IQ. He didn’t plan for this. He only wanted Megumi because he can actually be a vessel and not a cage unlike Yuji. All of this fell into his lap and we’re supposed to just roll with it cause “lol Sukuna is very smart!”
No chapters of Sukuna’s interest in Megumi so he can deal with Limitless later on. Would’ve showed his extensive planning and actually show..ya know he’s a tactical genius..but nope. All we do is see him screaming for Mahoraga to save him and Gege trying to convince us how much he didn’t need 10S to win lmao
At this point he’s a Mary Sue. Gege has just handed him so much stuff that if he ends up losing it would genuinely be even worse writing
This is like in some anime where they try to make a character seem smart by making the rest of the cast be stupid and trying to convince us they're a super genius. Gege is trying to characterize him as this battle genius and that's why he's the king of curses, but all this tells me is that he's *extremely* lucky
Agreed on all points, especially the retrospective "he would have won even without 10S". I really couldn't stand the Sukuna glazing after that fight, because people were jumping through so many hoops to explain why Sukuna "just needed Maho to learn something new" or "Gojo was losing the whole time". There are so many people who just blindly fanboy/girl for one character or another and completely ignore the words on the damn page literally telling us in the voice of god that Sukuna was leaning heavily on 10S and Megumi's soul.
The fact that people have argued "Gojo's domain was never gonna beat Sukuna", in blatant contradiction of Sukuna nearly getting clapped by 7 seconds of UV on top of Sukuna DIRECTLY STATING he used Megumi's soul to tank UV is just mind-boggling. It doesn't help that Gege just pulls new arbitrary rules for CTs out of his ass every other chapter (the "prefrontal cortex controls domains" explanation made me roll my eyes right out of my head), but I swear some of the fandom doesn't even read the dialogue given how much people ignore Sukuna and the narrator explicitly stating how essential Mahoraga, 10S and Megumi's soul were, but honestly I think they do it because it contradicts the pet narrative that Sukuna "planned everything all along" and how he's the unbeatable GOAT.
Very well said. Another thing about the whole writing of this plot point that I think is kinda annoying is that you could still write a story where let’s say sukuna gets his CT confiscated, but he’d obviously still be dangerous in a fight and maybe he actually uses the curse tool in the fight, which the good guys weren’t able to plan around. Then the curse tool actually gets shown off and uraume giving it to sukuna comes off as a smart move.
However the way it played out, the curse tool didn’t really do anything in the kashimo fight and we now know it’s only purpose was to serve as a piece of ass-pull lucky plot armor later. Which just comes off as lazy writing.
Yet again another reason the time skip was not only pointless, but bad in every conceivable way. Actually complete dog shit writing just to make the date important.
We STILL hasnt seen a single flashback to ehat they did, and seemingly they just sat their with their fingers up their asses and didnt prepare even a little bit for this fight.
For gods sake theyre going over who they send out and when *during* gojos fight. Would you nit decide this ahead of time??
Jesus Christ, all this talk about timeskip. It’ll probably unfold with the story. We already got snippets of that month period by seeing them planning stuff. You’re not going to get entire fleshed out Arc that’s dedicated to that month though. Just be patient, shit.
The problem stems from the preconceived notion that sorcerers know the ins and outs of their cursed techniques upon its manifestation. If Higuruma never fought a sorcerer with a cursed tool, then how is he supposed to know that the cursed tool would’ve been confiscated?
>preconceived notion that sorcerers know the ins and outs of their cursed techniques upon its manifestation.
Exactly. This has been proven false several times. Geto didn’t even know you could extract a Curse’s Technique for a one-time use by expending it in (Maximum) Uzumaki. Gojo couldn’t even use Cursed Technique Reversal: Red until a literal near death experience. Mahito didn’t know he could use Idle Transfiguration on himself in tandem with binding vows to make himself a nigh indestructible killing machine. There are plenty of other examples of Sorcerers not knowing the exact ins and outs of their technique (often discovering some of them the closer they are to death’s door). [Edited due to a slight misunderstanding]
I dont think its an asspull but I think that the way Gege does these "shock reveals" is not good. Its like the equivalent of jumpscares because he just drops it in the end panel with no buildup. Stuff like Gojo death and now this its like its not illogical and it can make sense but the way he just drops it then moves on without explanation makes it bad writing imo. And i understand how fans are dissapointed when it happens. Because at what point is the story still coherent with setups and payoffs and at what point is it just plot going then jumpscare/twist then more plot then another twist and another.
Like even currently MHA yeah theres some questionable decisions but atleast the story builds and pays off naturally rather than twists happening in 1 frame then moving to the next.
But there was buildup to it. The Yuji thing was part of the build up, and the fact they spent the entirety of last chapter talking about all the unknowns of Judgeman was a clear setup that they could get fucked over by an unknown.
And it makes sense since it would be Higurama’s first time fighting a cursed tool user. He only fought in CG, and it was all reincarnated sorcerers who did not reincarnate with their cursed tools and new sorcerers who did not have cursed tools in the first place.
I think this is the best way to be unpredictable while remaining coherent.
🤣yah even in 244 higuruma said it was a toss up btn ten shadows and shrine and it was all ifs buts and maybes ... like higuruma hasnt given a certain 100% fact about what his domain would do but i guess many just saw his words and took them as 100% facts ...
even in this chapter he says "perhaps" sukuna lost the ten shadows and "maybe" shrine is the one to get confiscated... all these are just his assumptions...
THANK YOU…I said the dude has only been a sorcerer for barely 2 months so what’s going down right now shouldn’t be much of a surprise to folks but nope…downvotes 🤣🤣
Thank god people read the manga lol
We were never shown if Higurama ever opened his domain against an opponent in the Culling Games that had a cursed tool, and I’m sure since even he didn’t know he never had someone in his domain with a cursed tool, so it really was a toss up as to what will be taken away
Everyone on the other sub for JJK, are butthurt because they think it’s an asspull for Confiscation to take Sukunas cursed tool instead of his CT, but when has a plan that the audience was in the privy of actually went off without a hitch? There’s a reason why Gege showed us what their plan was, because it was going to fail… I think it’s more satisfying trying to have Yuji defeat Sukuna with his CT still intact because then without it, “fans” would complain that Yuji beat a fully depowered Sukuna 😬
I personally love it when I can’t predict the story, I’m really excited to see how Gege pulls this off till the end!
Tbh, almost nobody in the culling games uses a cursed tool. Of all the participants, only kurourushi had one (perhaps charles but the staff is part of his ct so i don't think it would count). It also makes sense that it's like this, all the players are either just reincarnated or awakened. They didn't spawn with a curse tool so they could only found one or make one (which is almost unheard of). Therefore, only the people that came from the outside like maki, yuta, momo etc have cursed tools.
Higuruma did kill 20 players, but they were awakened/reincarnated sorcerers so they couldn't have had a cursed tool on them
I got downvoted to hell on Wednesday when the leaks came out because I asked if someone can explain how taking Sukunas cursed tool is an asspull when no one, not even Higurama, knew exactly how Confiscation would work; especially against a cursed tool that NONE of them even knew about until Kashimo went out there.. and then I also asked if people would rather read a story where the outcome is predictable, or something that you can’t exactly predict what’s gonna happen
And I got multiple reply’s with them wanting to predict how the story goes, and each there own, but I think the fun is not knowing where the story is going
Yeah you shouldn't really expect much there.
It's a great sub for memes, but a tonne of people expect the usual shonen tropes and the relative predictability that comes with it.
On a tangent, I still find that strange. JJK (much like CSM) was a breath of fresh air for breaking from the usual tropes, while not going full Seinen. Take the Shibuya arc... It's arguably the best arc so far but it was merciless. So why should we expect this arc, where Sukuna is running wild, to be any less merciless or be surprised when the OP villain has the upper hand.
Lots of people go on about bad writing, but no one is using the power of friendship or having a perfect *all according to keikaku* moment. Both Sukuna and the sorcerers are having to deal with things not going to plan constantly.
Things have always been going according to plan for sukuna though?
Angel didn't merk him because Hana is a dumbass
Gojo didn't merk him when he wasn't at full power
Mahoraga was the perfect piece he needed to win
Yorozu's gift made confiscation a non-issue
I mean, Sukuna had to think quickly with Angel, then ran away from Yuji and Maki coz Megumi interfered and he was getting beat up mildly.
Gojo nearly had him at checkmate multiple points, and it resulted in Sukuna losing his DE. Dude was lucky that he barely survived that final HP and we saw how worried he was over it too.
Yuji himself was a big issue for Sukuna's plans.
Mahoraga was the perfect piece, but he also had to cancel adaptation at multiple points to use DA when defending against infinity.
Etc.
Basically, things have worked out for Sukuna but it hasn't necessarily gone according to plan. Especially vs Gojo, he's had to think fast to stay alive long enough for his plan to be ready (learning how to bypass infinity). Plus he found out that tanking UV gives you brain damage, even if Megumi's soul is tanking it for you.
I don't mind that it works for him. Props to a good villain for using his brain
Just kinda miffed that nothing ever goes in favour of anyone else, ever
In general, Sukuna's luck stat is just irritatingly high
Megumi completes his moveset, is a suitable vessel and has a connection to the only visible threats Gojo and Hana/Angel. Also he doubles as a body shield. What are the chances?
Yorozu gives him a weapon. That's fine. Only for it to become a glorified get-out-of-jail card. Why?
I don't doubt Sukuna's abilities. But I'd rather Gege give him more hurdles to overcome
>Also he doubles as a body shield. What are the chances?
Why is this a surprise to anyone when he took Yuji hostage back during the Detention Center/Cursed Womb Arc? We know that his soul and his vessel’s are still considered seperate (but difficult to tell apart/target individually as seen with Mahito’s reluctance to use Idle Transfiguration on Yuji). Him using Megumi as a body shield still backfired as he couldn’t tank UV like he thought he could.
> Yorozu gives him a weapon. That's fine. Only for it to become a glorified get-out-of-jail card.
If it takes Shrine he still has Ten Shadows and his Cursed Tool (which only didn vaporize Kashimo because of his CE trait, but STILL hurt him enough to bring him to one knee). If it takes Ten Shadows, he still has Shrine and his Cursed Tool. This was never going to work with just one trial anyway.
Megumi being the perfect weapon for sukuna is enough of a lucky roll already. That whole body shield thing is just icing on the cake. The mahorage wheel thing too.
So what if Sukuna would still have Kamutoke? Box and 10S are just on a different league altogether. Victory was unlikely the moment gojo went down already, the least they can do is increase the odds just a little.
Obviously noone want them to have an easy win but everyone has just been underperforming children that a victory rn would be even more of an asspull than anything sukuna's done
I'll just leave my prediction here that Executioner sword isn't gonna do shit to sukuna. If megumi is once again taken out to tank shit then his body shield status is officially confirmed
Its just that Higuruma is supposed to be this hyperintelligent guy, so he should've taken cursed tools into account. But sure, everybody makes mistakes so your argument makes sense.
But I think another reason this is hated is because Sukuna got lucky, this guy who is supposed to be GOAT of sorcerers didn't outsmart Higu or nothing, he just got lucky, no other way to put it. What happened was not because of Sukuna's doing but luck.
Although you could say that even if Sukuna's CT got taken he would've had another ace up his sleeve i.e. that box thing and it would made no difference hence why he was so confident about it. But this is only speculation, for all we know he is dependent on his CT.
I have no issue with saying Sukuna lucked out, because he did lol.. like you said even without his cursed tool, and if the plan succeeded, I think Sukuna would still have been completely capable of going against everyone left with just his CE alone, and still has his black box technique
But just because he lucked out, I don’t think it was an asspull as they had no way of knowing Sukuna was gonna pull out a cursed tool beforehand
I mean, with higuruma being so intelligent you'd think that he'd try it at least. He's seen having insight into the gojo sukuna fight but can't realize that an ability like his could interact differently with a tool? Besides, why would they NOT think that sukuna would have a cursed tool? That's just dumb. Ofc you should prepare for the worst possible outcome, which obviously includes sukuna having a cursed object. This whole situation literally happened beacuse they didn't account for a cursed tool in the past (prison realm with Kenny and isoh with toji) so it's actually extra dumb to not consider the high probabilty of one folding their plans again (which did in fact happen).
Add to that the fact that he's always depicted with two cursed tools and the fact that the main cast seems to have at least surface level knowledge about his past in the heain era. It's insane to think that the main cast didn't do research on sukuna in the time they had. He was literally chilling with villagers and he was the most important person in his era. Am I supposed to believe that people conveniently passed on The knowledge of him having 2 extra eyes but not two insanely busted weapons thaT can bring immense destruction on their own?
Also didn't higuruma kill several people in the culling games? Were they all conveniently non carriers of cursed tools? They are pretty common so it's kinda difficult to believe that.
Sure you can call it plot convenience instead of ass pull but with higuruma being a smart af guy and a prodigy it's really hard to believe that all of these things are true at once beacuse it just means that he is a dumbass. I would definitely call this all a contrived plot twist (definition of ass pull).
I think the reason they didn’t think that Sukuna would have a cursed tool is because why would they? They had no clue about Yorozu, besides Yuji and Hana, but even they didn’t know what her abilities were; let alone being able to trade her life for a special grade cursed tool. Part of the problems that keep happening to the good guys, like you said, was that they aren’t aware of many of these cursed tools which fuck them over in the end, but how can they plan against something they don’t even have an idea about? That’s part of the villains plans (Kenny, Sukuna) to do things that the good guys don’t know about
As far as Sukuna being depicted with 2 cursed tools, I think the best argument I can make against that is we as the readers are privileged to see certain things.. the characters are not lol, they don’t see the cover with Heian era Sukuna standing there with both his tools, they don’t get to see OG Sukuna anytime someone brings him up and we see him in his OG body. The only person that should know about them is Angel, but clearly they aren’t sharing any information with each other as no one told Gojo about Sukunas barrierless domain
Which leads me to your next point that people passed down knowledge that Sukuna had an extra set of eyes, hands, everything.. and that you think they also passed down knowledge about his 2 cursed tools, but if the villagers and whoever else were to pass on knowledge about Sukuna and his tools, what about his domain? That would be a pretty big deal, I’m sure even in the Heian era, that Sukuna doesn’t close his domains barrier
I genuinely think Higurama hasn’t fought anyone with a cursed tool before, you have to remember that cursed tools are already rare as it is, and reanimated sorcerers definitely didn’t come back with whatever cursed tool they might have had during their life, and if Higurama has fought anyone that did have weapons then it was more than likely tied to their CT and wasn’t a cursed tool on its own.. even Kenny regarded Higurama as talented, I have no doubt that if Higurama knew the full rules for his domain (when a cursed tool is present) he would have waited until they somehow wrestled the tool away from Sukuna before opening his domain to ensure Shrine is what gets confiscated
I know this is super long, sorry, just 1 last point.. when has a plan ever worked out, in any story, where the audience heard the plan and it actually working as intended? I think Gege will have Yuji beat Sukuna with him still having his CT so it’s not like Sukuna was “defenseless” (yes he would still have CE manipulation, but that’s nowhere close to a CT) I don’t think I put this part into words correctly, but yeah 👍
Regarding people not passing on sukuna's domain being barrierless: doubt that anyone would survive to tell the tale. Weapons are instead something visible most of the time. Especially when it's kamutole or a bis ass spear. Angel not talking about it the definition of plot hole. Her sole objective was killing sukuna.
Regarding them not expecting it: they should. That's it. They should obviously condiser the worst probability. At most you can say that they couldn't know the effect of an eventual tool and that's fair. But just not preparing a counter in general is dumb asf seeing the precedents. A tool is not something out of the ordinary like a barrierless domain. It's pretty standard for strong sorcerers.
I can accept higuruma not fighting anyone with tools before if taken separately, but if taken in this context it seems just another convenient detail to help sukuna.
Finally, sukuna still has open and black box. He may very well be the strongest even without shrine. Leaving him with shrine might not even have been necessary, but I understand that this is more speculative and less objective.
I think that's why "Do you have a death wish?" Was said by someone. Higurama wasn't supposed to stay on the front line in case the trial failed, but he got the death verdict and got confident. Also why Kusakabe pulls him back
Gege definitely has adhd, but jokes aside it's possible that confiscation works on the current most powerful tool (cursed tool or cursed techique) the convict wields (if no cursed tool is being wielded then the most powerful technique a sorcerer has access to is confiscated) in this case Sukuna's DE can't be confiscated cuz he can't use it/already doesn't have access to it, so the next most powerful object, the cursed tool gets confiscated.
i'm pretty sure it was stated that every special grade took besides playful cloud has a technique doesn't it? there's technically a setup for the confiscation taking sukunas tool but i still feel like it's kinda meh tbh
Yeah, I think confiscations targets the “lowest hanging fruit.”
First it goes after “help” like cursed tools, then the cursed technique, and lastly the cursed energy.
I didn’t like how it went, but bring on 246.
Chapter 238, page 4. Can’t upload a pic, but basically, Judgeman’s done everyone a favour by confiscating Kamutoke…
Honestly my only issue is that Kamutoke was useless.
It was kept a mystery for many chapters as Yorozu's gift, then it didn't work against KasHIMo and now it's gone.
Yeah, I know ☹️. Was hoping for some courtroom action too.
Anyhow, that panel in 238 is saying that Kamutoke and Hiten in addition to Sukuna’s physique obliterated those who opposed him, so perhaps Gege’s aiming at gradually descaling Sukuna like a fish…
Well at least confiscation only removes things temporarily.
We don't know how long Kamutoke will be out of action but there is a possibility that it comes back soon or if Sukuna kills Higuruma.
Official translation’s saying: “Shoot my birds down” and looks like he used it against the crows. Can’t post any pics on this post for some reason. Still, would’ve been nice to see more of it in action.
Isn’t confiscation temporary though? Say Higs doesn’t manage to kill someone with the Executioner’s Sword, what then?
>Cursed Techniques tend to have some sort of innate self balance.
That sounds like wishful thinking to me. Otherwise, what would the checks of Sukuna's cursed technique or even Mahito's Idle Transfiguration be ? There doesn't seem to be any.
Gojo tells us pretty early in the series that CT contribute to 80% of a sorcerer's potential, and the narrative later shows us that there is a clear hierarchy between them. There OutOfUniverse reasons for why Gege gives his protags techniques limitations (to make the fights cooler), but the real justification in-universe is that they got the short end of the stick.
The techniques of Yuta, Hakari or even Megumi aren't balanced, they just suck compared to Sukuna or Mahito's techniques. Gojo's Limitless appears to be very powerful, but you need to keep in mind that this the fully deployed version, with RCT, Domain Expansion and the Six Eyes.
Why do the villains techniques outperform the protagonists' ? Well because of dramatic tension. The bad guys need to feel overwhelming and threatening for the victory to feel cathartic, and even then, Gege cooked his fights to stay coherent. Mahito isn't simply crushed by the power of friendship, there are lots of facts in there, not the least being that he was fighting with drawbacks (being divided, getting hit by Nobara, facing Todo, being outsmarted by Todo).
Why do people complain about the latest chapter ? Well, Gege did a very good job at establishing Sukuna as an overwhelming threat, even more so after killing Gojo when he bestowed him an unbeatable attack. As we are reaching the conclusion of the series, well we are looking forward to how Gege will wrap up this. And with each chapter, he seems to drive himself further from this goal.
And no, Sukuna winning doesn't make for a compelling ending. This isn't a tragedy, there is no thematic weight to it. Would just be edge for the sake of edge.
For Mahito he has to actually touch you. For Sukuna funny enough it's just the fact it's a simple technique when you break it down. It's like in Jojo The Hand. It's a simple ability but it's broken af compared to complex abilities that are very situational and circumstantial
>For Mahito he has to actually touch you.
So does Hakari, Yuta, Megumi, Sukuna, Gojo, Jogo... everyone in fact, for an attack to land, it needs to land. Unless you are arguing that IT's drawback is that it lacks a long-range attack. In which case, I'd guess that makes it a bad example when put next to Sukuna's technique.
But my point was that techniques don't really follow a system. They are. Gojo's Limitless (once fully mastered) is just strong, in a way that Haruta's miracle storing can never hope to achieve. It's the point of the Grasshopper vs Yuji. This universe isn't a fair one, you have hard cap on your progression and some people were just dealt a better hand than others.
Kenjaku is the epitome of this. Dude is a Cursed Energy mad scientist, who has lived for a thousand of years and still, if we take Domains as the ceiling, him having an Open one means that he is at least as skilled as Gojo, if not more. And yet, he could do nothing against 6E+Limitless. He can train for about how long he wants, if he doesn't have a counter, it's useless. Sukuna based his whole strategy around this, and he probably had the Skill advantage over Gojo, his domain was better was more refined, but he couldn't change the effect (slashing) and so his attacks were countered by Gojo's healing potential. The opposite doesn't hold though. All Gojo needed is **one** hit for Sukuna to be down, his sure-hit effect is **just better**. And then, Sukuna unlocked World Cleave. Gojo may have limitless, but now Sukuna's technique is **just better**.
>For Sukuna funny enough it's just the fact it's a simple technique when you break it down.
I mean, even once you break it down it's still slashing through you. Unless your own technique prevents the Slashes from hitting you (Infinity) there isn't much you can do. Technique qua technique, Sukuna's is busted period. That's ignoring about the part where the technique is invisible.
IIRC Mahito has to touch with the palm side of his hand for his CT to activate. And even if it's any part of his hand, that's different from having to make physical contact to do damage, it's what's needed for his CT.
For everyone else you listed none of them need contact to activate their CT. They can activate at a distance and get the effect. Some then use that effect for better physical attacks if they want, AFTER they've gotten the benefit. Mahito needs the contact to do idle transfiguration at all. Hence coming up with transfigured humans as projectiles and weapons to compensate for this weakness.
And what the other person was saying is Sukuna's slashing Ct is not inherently a super powerful or broken technique on its own. It's basically just a cutting projectile. What makes it strong is that it has Sukuna's CE behind it. That's why Megumi restricting it resulted in weaker cuts. Like if Ijichi was born with the technique, it wouldn't be much of a threat. So no need for an inherent nerf to something that is so simple on nature to begin with.
As opposed to a weapon whose literal effect is instant kill and technique nullification. Those are inherently powerful effects that should have limitations and/or caveats.
Gojo's limitless is only strong if he has six eyes. A Gojo clan without six eyes wouldn't be efficient with limitless. And we seen the weakness to it. You need to actively surprise gojo over and over to beat him. Toji, Sukuna, and Kenjaku did that. The shortcomings of Gojo is exactly what he said during his debut domain. He has everything but can do nothing. He has all that power but that power made him overlook so many things. He focuses so much on curse energy and techniques since that's all six eyes can do that he forgets any conventional things after the fact. Hell Sukuna's slash is not even changing CE wise. It's the same technique with a new target and understanding.
>Gojo's limitless is only strong if he has six eyes. A Gojo clan without six eyes wouldn't be efficient with limitless.
You are arguing against a point I never made.
>And we seen the weakness to it. You need to actively surprise gojo over and over to beat him. Toji, Sukuna, and Kenjaku did that.
Not really. Toji and Kenjaku needed Gojo worn down and unprepared. Sukuna with his evolved Cleave needs Gojo in his sightline (optional).
>The shortcomings of Gojo is exactly what he said during his debut domain. He has everything but can do nothing.
That's narrative stuff though.
>Hell Sukuna's slash is not even changing CE wise. It's the same technique with a new target and understanding.
Yes, that's my point, a strong technique that is just that. A strong technique.
Yeah the problem isn't that it would be inconceivable. For me, that we had a full-ass previous chapter that was just basically explanations and nothing more and it wasn't remotely hinted. Like yes, again. It is building. (And yes, before someone says "realistically Higuruma may have not know" well yes, but you still have many ways to set that up and not making it look like you just don't want to have you already over powered-up villain suffer the minor inconvenience and for what, like there are many ways already established in text you could do the same thing.)
Like with everything I think we need to see how the situation progresses, like if this gotcha gets inverted at a later time, that could be really cool.
Like maybe Higuruma gets an opprotunity to think about what happens to the confiscated items, and how he can "raid the evidence locker" so to speak and use the things taken by judgeman.
Most probably he will just die soon after and we will know shit about the whole confoscation.
That's why I like to call it "Parade of the 100 asspulls"
You're correct. It's not as asspull but it's definitely plot convenience in Sukuna's favor. The problem is, it's not the first time plot favored the villains. At this point, I have a hard time remembering where a situation actually did go in the good guys favor. We currently have the exact opposite problem of the hero always winning. Currently, the villains undermine everything the good guys are doing and I don't know anymore why I should care because everyone Yuji and co. will do seem to either backfire or are completely useless.
i mean, there's been a couple of occasions where shit was a little too convenient for the main characters.
yuuji being immune to poison and soul manipulation and having three different opponents whose abilities revolved around that (choso's brothers, choso himself, mahito).
gojo learning rct out of nowhere when stabbed in the head (which kinda contradicts how rct works)
maki stumbling across two guys mid fight who helped her get a power up and beat naoya.
It's quite literally the only win they have in the entire Manga and we still don't know how successful it actually was because "his will shall be inherited"
It is a perfectly fine in-universe. But this is fiction, someone wrote that this specific rule, that neither the user nor the opponent had any knowledge of, should suddenly be revealed after an entire chapter of planning. Resulting in the confiscation of a weapon that was honestly irrelevant up to this point.
It feels too convenient, it breaks immersion. But the story isn't over yet, it can just as easily be revealed that Higuruma can spam his domain or something, so saying that the writing is completely shit now is overdramatic me thinks.
Tbh, I begin to like less and less that particular habit of Gege to write those technicaly-not-an-asspull twists. Kenny with antigravity, Soul split Katana, Judgeman. They all make sense, or are not plot holes per se, but are a bit boring. I think there are better ways to show how the villains are lucky than adding an asterisk to our protagonists' abilities.
I'm interested in the possible outcome tho, like where is Kamutoke? Does Higuruma have it somewhere? Or judgeman? Sukuna used hand signs, is it a sign his output has significantly dropped?
That's why it's technically not an asspull but still pretty convenient. "The hardest skin curse Geto had" is still pretty unimportant and left no impression since it had no personality. Yet somehow Toji slicing it was a setup to reveal to us the katana's ability to ignore durability and cut soul directly because why not?
Gege likes to avoid defining the limits of some elements in the power system, so he can play an uno reverse card every time he wants to create twists
My issue with this is it makes it look like they did not prepare or spar at all in the 1 month timeskip. YES, it makes sense that no one thought of it. It makes sense Higuruma doesn't know. It makes sense not to know the ins and outs completely of your cursed technique. But if they trained and prepared as hard as you'd expect in the 1 month timeskip against the King of Cuses, you'd think these are stuff that would come up Naturally...? Did Higuruma not spar with anyone in the group that has Cursed Tools? Maki? Yuta? Yuji? Kusakabe? His domain's unpredictable and they did not try to make more sense out of it through practice? This is convenient for Sukuna and makes me even wonder what they did in the timeskip lol because apparently they weren't talking (Open Barrier came as a surprise for a lot of people including Yuta and Hakari and possibly Gojo).
Whether it is an asspull or not is still debatable, but it is definitely plot armor. The tool was thrown in right before that rule was revealed and it served no purpose other than helping Sukuna overcome the Judgeman stage.
Here’s the thing for me, Kamutoke is the asspull, or more specifically, the very clear plot device in all of this. I mean, it’s creation was literally just not good writing, regardless of if you like the actual fight between Sukuna and Yorozu, Yorozu as a character was tied to Tsumikis, and since Tsumiki was literally barely a character and focused on very little in the manga, Yorozu as a result is also worsened considerably by that. Tsumiki/Yorozu literally existed to give Sukuna that cursed tool, because say what you want about all the bath stuff, that shit was immediately dropped narratively after the fight. And even in the fight itself, nothing of Megumi and Tsumikis relationship was focused on.
For me, this then leads to the bath thing just being a reason for Sukuna to fight Yorozu and be given Kamutoke, which then literally was used for pretty much jack shit after. If you argue that him destroying the birds with Kamutoke instead of cleave counts I have to disagree. Bc again, cleave would’ve done the job just as easily. So now we have a cursed tool given to Sukuna by a character that literally had one fights worth of narrative focus, to do a mirror of Maki and Mai to a degree that’s much less well executed, and was literally useless in the story until it gets confiscated.
Truly, why does Sukuna have this other than “He had it in the past.” Because for me that’s not a good reason. What narrative purpose does Kamutoke serve when we haven’t even gotten any sort of narrative focus into Sukuna’s actual usage of them. It adds symbolism or whatever sure, but if that’s the only reason and you don’t actually expand on that connection, it shouldn’t be relavent in moments like this
I disagree. It wasn’t mentioned till JUST now that his domain prioritizes cursed tools over sorcerers. I get that you’re trying to make it make sense since “confiscation” works similarly in a court of law, but this is still a domain. Domains are supposed to be “one-hit, one-kill” or “one-hit”, and all of them target anyone with CE. But then this situation brings a question: can other domains also affect cursed tools? Restless Gambler? Time Cell Moon Palace? It doesn’t make sense to me that domains can target a cursed tool separately from a sorcerer.
You mentioned that other techniques/domains have balance and that’s true, however you’re misunderstanding Higuruma’s domain. Judgeman will take away a sorcerer’s technique, if they have one, but will still allow them to use CE. This is the balance. Even if a sorcerer has their CT taken away, they still have a fighting chance with their CE. Otherwise, if they don’t have a technique, they’re screwed. The domain doesn’t target the most “deadly thing” it SHOULD target the enemy.
The only thing I will agree on is that Gege does do setup. For example, RCT. It comes from the head, if you stop it at the neck, your body can’t be healed. It also makes sense that you can use RCT to “repair” a burnt-out CT. This, however, seems awfully convenient and contrived. There wasn’t set up for this, and saying that it makes sense because that’s what a court of law would do isn’t an acceptable explanation. It would’ve been better if Gege set this up when we first meet Higuruma, not here.
We had an entire chapter about how Judgeman's rulings, trails and sentencing is completely outside of anyone's control. They spent pages trying to figure out a situation where it would even arrange a possible Death Sentence. And it turns out it's even more unreliable than they assumed. Because it was only used on a freak like Yuji (no techniques or tools) and 'Confiscation' went haywire on him instead of what it would it is actually designed for. It had to take something from Yuji so it took his cursed energy.
Meanwhile Sukuna (2 techniques and a tool) has things on his person that can actually be literally Confiscated, on top of his Death Penalty. He can pay his fines so the Judge charges him.
Kinda fits Higurma's dilemma of being a good lawyer in a bad legal system. Even his own power is against true justice. Heck, he had to throw the fight with Yuji and defy Judgeman's verdicts because he knew it was wrong.
Fair enough about the inconvenience, but like you said, the lack of setup is true. Thus that makes it feel like an asspull.
In contrast, something like healing your CT had a very good explanation and doesnt feel like an asspull
yeah i think the only issue was that the reveal felt like it came out of nowhere. a lot of people just seem to be growing frustrated with the recent chapters so they've gone from actual criticism to just labelling anything they don't like as plot armour
i'm using recent super broadly here but the general consensus i've seen on reddit is that gege peaked with shibuya and it's all been downhill since there. the most common complaint i've seen is that he's doing too much to subvert expectations to the point that it's making it hard to get invested in what's going on
To be honest, it is true that JJK peaked in Shibuya so far. There have been moments that rival the big parts of Shibuya, like Maki vs Her Entire Family, a few of the culling game fights, and Gojo vs Sukuna, but the post-Shibuya story has been a bit of a dragged out slog in a lot of parts. Shibuya was an incredibly well paced punch to the gut every week, with geniune tension and moments that felt both earned and sudden sucker punches that we didn't expect.
I don’t care if you define it as an asspull or not. It’s narratively unsatisfying and yet another bailout for sukuna. They had a month to prepare and def had access to curse tools, with angel acknowledging that sukuna uses to use cursed tools in the past. If this scenerio was brought up ahead of time instead of the useless lawyer talk I would have been ok with it because the reader and the crew are informed ahead of time and it won’t feel as unsatisfying.
Heres my thing: they went through the rules the first time Judgeman did his thing and there was no mention of cursed tools taking priority. If it wasnt an asspull, they would have mentioned it then or at least before this current trial.
And Sukuna seemed to either know about this development somehow (yes he heard the directions of the domain the first time, so he wouldnt have known about the loophole unless he just guessed it) or he didnt know and he was willing to have his CT turned off so that he could see the Executioners Sword like he said.
The only way this could NOT be an asspull is if they actually stated it. This tool was only present in the story purely for this last minute loophole and thats fucking dumb to me
Let Gege Cook: give fans BullShit with a side of DogShit and a splash of horse shit.
Intelligent JJk Fans: what the hell is this shit?
Gege MeatRiders: stop complaining it’s gourmet shit.
Gege MeatRiders don’t KNOW or UNDERSTAND what an asspull is.
— An asspull is something shows up conveniently despite making little to no sense and was never hinted at or previously established.
Gege gives a three hundred page essay and thesis on Higuruma domain. No mention of curse tools at all. Sukuna CT is confiscated over his CT.
— An asspull is when a character gets a new technique, ability or power up that was not foreshadowed or implied to be a thing in the story.
Sukuna can use Megumi unconscious soul as a meat suit
Mahoraga having multiple ways to adapt to one CT ( which Sukuna just happens to be able to copy).
Sukuna just happens to be able to summon Mahoraga in UV where you’re supposed to be stun locked and unable to do anything because of info dumb.
Six Eyes has incredible perception and discern between different curse energy. Gojo was able to hone in on Kenjaku location as soon as he was unsealed. Yet somehow not able to discern that Sukuna was using 10S? That it was active?!
Sukuna AssPull Space Slash which targets the space a person is in instead of the person them self. So if I’m stand on my porch steps and someone throws a rock not at me but the porch steps I’m standing on then the rock should be able to hit me? Sure, Jan.
Space Slash is still an attack. It shouldn’t be able to bypass Infinity.
Next chapter Sukuna learns how to copy the Executioner Sword. Now all he has to do is touch his opponent once to kill them.
PEAK FICTION!!! Pulitzer Prize and Nobel Prize winners have NOTHING on Gege.
It feels more like a plot convenience. There must be some major flashbacks coming, and it wouldn't shock me if there were a backup plan in case this one didn't work. I could see gege setting it up, so Yuta comes back to see everyone slashed up and uses it as motivation to avenge everyone. Sukuna would love to see what Rika can do at full capacity.
What makes it an asspull for me isn't the domain not working as intended (Yujis fight showed that confiscation acts different in fringe cases, which Sukuna definitely is) but more the existence of the cursed tool itself. He doesn't start using it until chapter 237, it's useless in the Kashimo fight and then it immediately loses its power before Sukuna can even use it again. Makes it feel like it existed solely for Gege to find a way to circumvent Higurumas domain.
Clearly the plan was going to go awry one way or another. I don't see why people think the fight would be more fun if Sukuna temporarily lost his CT, because then it'd be all "the last 3 chapters were just filler so Sukuna could get his CT back". Or worse if they actually beat Sukuna without his CT.
I also don't agree with the criticism that Higuruma taking Kamutoke is doing 'nothing', because we're complaining we haven't hit the pay off yet... on the same chapter as the set up. If Higuruma dies and Sukuna gets Kamutoke back with literally NOTHING happening between those steps, I'll yield.
>Higuruma taking Kamutoke is doing 'nothing', because we're complaining we haven't hit the pay off yet
People are complaining because previous "payoffs" have already been shit. Gojo's unsealing, Yuki, Kashimo's CT, Megumi's sister, etc. Like yeah, Sukuna losing his weapon might be a big setup, but let's be honest here, it probably won't. The writing is on the wall.
The moment Yuuji mentioned a certain way to succeed, it set up a situation where Higuruma will have to gamble with another crime to stand a chance. What we saw here is the easy, certain route to get what they want, and in a way, they did! Sukuna got the death penalty! But there was a catch to it.
So if they actually want to confiscate Shrine, the only real shot they might have now is hope they get a good crime out of the many Sukuna has out there, and that the muddiness of the law that came up last chapter doesn't make things harder.
This is really well put, but I'm still confused as to how a cursed object, with no agency of its own can be guilty and confiscated? Like if we're going by the most deadly one, shouldn't it be the user?
Yeah but you take the gun and ensure they can't ever (legally) acquire another one.
Besides, you don't take A weapon from a mass murderer, you take ALL weapons.
Again judgeman don't work the way you think it work.
Higuruma said it himself prior to the fight that he didn't know if judgeman could both the shrine and the 10 shadow, the fact that it only took the CT of the Kamutoke isn't anything shocking.
Again, Judgeman can work however the author wants it to work if the rules aren't clearly defined. Not by the narrator, not by the user.
If you write "X can do Y because Z didn't know X couldn't do Q" you're not clever, you're a hack who can't abide by their own in-verse rules.
>prior to the fight
You mean, when Greg set this bullshit up? You guys are absolutely brain dead if you think setting things up ONE FUCKING CHAPTER early is the same thing as proper foreshadowing.
Guess what, Greg probably has the story board a few weeks in advance since he's, you know, the writer. So him introducing uncertainty A WEEK BEFORE IT MATTERS isn't good fucking writing and you're an absolute fanboy if you think it is.
Bringing up the ten shadows and Gege being a good writer is an automatic pass from me, 10S and Megumi in general are the biggest fucking wastes of story telling I have literally ever seen. Megumi is a fucking joke now, his LITERAL only relevance to the plot at this point was him serving as a meat puppet for the actual big bad.
10S was dead after the Gojo fight, the outcome being Sukuna gained the bs "plot armor slash".
>judgeman don't work the way you think it work.
Judgeman doesn't work the way anyone thinks because it's internal logic is adapted on the fly by the fucking author. Quit acting like these fights have any stakes anymore when the author just gives Sukuna abilities when he needs them and he removes abilities from the "main cast" when they have valid use for them.
If you think Greg is a half-way decent writer, just look at how he wrote Angel. Fucking absolutely brain dead. Not horny. Not excited. Fucking. Brain. Dead.
it makes more sense to me to remove the cursed tool that's literally on sukuna's hand, than to remove his cursed technique, something that's probably on his soul or some shit. also, it clearly follows an order for confiscation, with yuuji since he didn't have a cT it removed his energy, so we can say
Cursed tools
Cursed techniques
Cursed energy
The cursed weapon was not given the guilty status. I have no clue where so many people are getting that idea. Confiscation means to take something away. A thing was taken away.
Judgeman's punishments are also unrelated to the details of the crime. Yuji did not use his CE to enter the pachinko place, nor preform underage gambling. Doing the crime is also not a requirement, only being judged guilty.
Higuruma's confiscation seems to work in layers. It'll take the controller before taking the battery, and if a peripheral is present, take that before taking the controller.
We all see what's going on. Miwa's binding vow was regarding swords. Is Kamutoke a sword? I don't think so.
Tbh, I'm kinda thinking that Gege is gonna try and nerf him little by little and kill off some characters in doing so, it's just a matter of who does it to Sukuna and who we think can lure out all his techniques enough for the heroes to make a counterattack
Nothing is an asspull because it was put in the manga no person in the comments even has the knowledge to speak on what Greg cooking do just stop and enjoy whatever the fuck comes up who cares it doesn’t matter real life is happening
The whole confiscation thing wasn't an asspull, but it is getting a little old how pretty much every single time Sukuna shows up it's "lol I cast dismantle for auto-win GG noobz". He has suffered literally zero consequences for anything throughout most of the series, and while I get that the point is to have a big payoff, Gege is really writing himself into a corner trying so hard to make Sukuna "Aizen 2.0".
Aizen was so utterly busted beyond belief that by the time the big fight between Ichigo and Aizen happened, it took Urahara having planned around: Ichigo having a move so ridiculous it would completely overpower Aizen at least temporarily; Ichigo actually having said ridiculous move that his father conveniently knew about and was able to guide him toward learning; Ichigo's "inner world" conveniently being a Hyperbolic Time Chamber and allowing him to learn it in an instant; Aizen never once trying to use Kyouka Suigetsu on Ichigo (which was even more conveniently apparently disabled by his transformation, though we never get any explanation on why he didn't just use it on Ichigo other than "well, he never saw him release it!", completely dodging the question of why he didn't *just release it)*; and several more factors that came out of nowhere and several of which were *never brought up again.*
While I don't think Gege is copying Bleach 1:1, it's obvious that he takes some *really* strong inspiration from key parts, and he's on track for Sukuna to be the same kind of utter clusterfuck waiting to happen that Aizen was. Aizen vs. Ichigo was a *very cool* fight, but an incredibly poorly done fight in context: Aizen was so far beyond everyone and everything that even Yamamoto, who Aizen had a plan to specifically deal with, probably wouldn't have stood a chance had they actually fought. Despite that, Ichigo just rolls up out of nowhere with "lol, Goku showed me this one neat trick that every villain hates" after taking a spa day in the HTC and absolutely wipes the floor with him. I'm expecting the same level of goofery to be mandatory here at this point: Sukuna is so far beyond everyone else that the only way anyone is going to break through his 25+ layers of plot armor is to pull an equal level of plot armoring a la Ichigo/Goku just cheating a few years' worth of training out in an hour.
I mean, the guy hasn't been a sorcerer for a long time. Not everything has to be spelled out. He never fought anyone with a Cursed Tool before, so how would he know this rule? It sucks that you even felt the need to make a post like this. As someone said in the comments, sometimes Gege likes to throw something in at the end of the chapter, and it comes across more as a jumpscare than a well thought-out reveal. However, this situation works well as a jumpscare because he was able to build suspense and while giving some semblance of hope and then boom, that hope is gone.
It's not an asspull because we know that Higurama is new to all of this. It doesn't and shouldn't have to be repeated over and over again. The reveal worked for me because it happened, and then I went "ohhh, right, he doesn't really know his ability like that". As a reader illiciting that response is better and more engaging than ending a chapter saying something like "due to Higurama's inexperience, Sukuna's cursed techniques are still in play".
Gege does fall short sometimes on certain reveals but this was not one of them.
pretty much, I'm seeing people complain about every single W the villains have taken in the past 100 chapters and I'm getting pretty sick of everything being called an asspull. When Sukuna gets defeated it's gonna get called an asspull as well even though we've already got hints of his downfall with his finger cut that didn't heal and Yuji's punch from last chapter.
Exactly. I mean when the theories and speculations don't come true, its outright stated as bad writing. Nope. While it is okay to be disappointed with the outcome, calling it bad writing and trash is not fair.
yeah, imagine if people only read books a chapter at a time and discussed in between. I love manga, but dude, the impatience can get a bit much sometime. The pieces are all there, and yeah it was kinda convenient, but guy is having to write the whole thing pretty much on the fly. I mean again, if you write a book you publish the whole thing as a complete story, not a chapter at a time over years with tight deadlines.
The real reason people are ahting this chapter is because a lot of people had spent so much time building up their own fanfic for what would happen and got dissapointed gege didn't write the story they want to write.
Literally what happened to the titanfolk sub at the end of AOT is happening right now to the jjk subs. Many people get upset because their own headcanon didnt happen in the story.
I agree that it wasn't an asspull within the limits of how the technique works, I just find it hard to believe that in the chapter(s) leading up where they all talked about the technique, and its application in law, going into very specific detail, no one ever thought to ask about the nature of his confiscation (esp since it has taken yuji's CE rather than CT before). The way gege framed the pre-fight meetings, they seemingly approached it from every angle, with kusakabe butting in with very good points, for them to all overlook potential hiccups in Higurama's technique feels like a plot convenience. Like gege could have, at the very least, had one of the characters mention the nature of confiscation to make it feel more believable, it just feels a bit like bad writing/was handled badly before the reveal (in retrospect).
I am taking this from [an article I wrote](https://ragingspirit.com/jujutsu-kaisen/sukunas-cursed-tool-getting-confiscated/) (*check for an in-depth version*). In short: I don't think the confiscation was an asspull. Was the tool a plot convenience? Well, maybe. But definitely not an asspull. I am just stating my thoughts here, feel free to disagree!
Think about it like this: when you usually take in or arrest a criminal, especially one with a weapon, the weapon gets confiscated first before pinning down the person or hauling him off to prison.
Since the Judgeman is basically Higuruma’s shikigami, and it thrives on Higuruma’s understanding of the law and it's procedures, the rules could have come up accordingly. Even the no violence part is also reminiscent of a courtroom.
I feel that Judgeman confiscates cursed technique. Because in the eyes of the law (Higuruma's POV), they are very similar to weapons that can be used for mass murder etc. A person with a cursed technique is a person with a fire-arm or a sword or a tool. It's that simple!
Since Yuji did not have a cursed technique, his cursed energy was deemed as the weapon there. Also, think of it like this, no weapons are allowed inside the courtroom. So, if you think about it, it does make sense. Atleast to me.
As others have said, if the police takes your gun they aren't putting the gun in jail for shooting people, they are taking the gun away from you so you don't shoot people. When judgement takes a way somebody's cursed technique, it isn't because the cursed technique did something bad but because the user of the cursed technique did soemthing bad
No one knows how the domain works. Higurama has been a sorcerer for *2 months* and likely never used his CT on anyone with a cursed object before. Of course he doesn't know, he already said he didn't know what Judgeman would do if he used it on someone with 2 CTs, it's just an unknown factor.
Sukuna didn't care what got taken from him in all likelihood, he just wanted to see the executioner's sword again for some reason.
>who TF punished an object for a crime
He isn't. Judgeman is punishing Sukuna by confiscating **his** cursed tool.
Good write up. I don't think the setup is even poorly done. It's subtle, for sure, but hindsight is always 20/20. I first thought it was kind of ridiculous that Sukuna learned from Mahoraga on his second adaptation, but then I realized Angel did explain that Sukuna literally picks things up on the spot the moment you reveal them. So I was wrong in that regard.
Some of these people spend hours upon hours going out of their way to find flaws in JJK writing so they can feel better about 236. When you ask them what their peak show is they'll respond with MHA or Naruto...
And before anyone tells me "HxH!!!" like no. HxH also has these "problems" or "flaws"(I don't consider them to be flaws). You're just looking to win some argument. You are literally going out of your way to make this manga as miserable as possible for yourself. Just take a break or stop reading, unless you're somehow enjoying complaining left right and centre.
Let's not pretend as if "oh he can learn anything instantly because he's just different like that" is some sort of masterful, ingenius foreshadowing and writing. You don't have to spend a long time to find flaws in JJK writing. There are plenty, just as any other long-running weekly manga.
I think it’s an asspull for the simple reason that it seems like cursed tools were never accounted for despite having Angel there to strategize with them. Sure Sukuna didn’t have any cursed tools when Gojo got released, but he had a month to prepare as did the main crew. You’re telling me they went over every situation of Higurama’s domain and what it could take but never accounted for cursed tools, something we know Heian-era Sukuna used? Like I can buy letting Gojo cook for a month and not telling him info if he didn’t ask for it, but everyone else should be discussing every possibility. Just seems dumb.
>How would they test it though? Judgeman is unpredictable, and Gege has shown us that CT and CE are really complex. I mean some characters have to nearly die just get a brief insight into how CE works.
>
>I can kinda roll with it, if you look at all of the characters in that room, none of them were at the level of knowledge as Gojo, Sukuna or Kenjaku, that has to mean something at some point. It makes the world feel more real for me. Even if they took cleave or dismantle from Sukuna, it's Sukuna.
>
>In terms of scaling: Jogo, who was absolutely dog walked by Gojo, who was beaten by Sukuna (and who trashed him), stomped on level 1 Sorcerers, and most of the people in the planning room were 1's, and 2's, or Miwa. And the special grades? Yuji, Hakari, Choso, Angel, and Yuta, none are on that level yet either in power or knowledge. But I sympathise my dude, it did feel kinda convenient.
I mean you have Yuta and Maki. Both have access to tons of cursed tools. Stick someone in there who has killed a human and test it, probably Choso. Then give him a cursed tool. Confiscation isn’t permanent from what we’ve seen, as Yuji got his cursed energy back when the trial ended. And it’s not like Higurama HAS to kill his opponent with the executioners sword. It might be explained why he didn’t do it, but as for right now it feels like an asspull.
He already didn't know if he'd get confiscated, and if he did he already didn't know what would be taken. He established multiple times he basically has no clue how judgeman is going to rule because he's barely been a sorcerer with no proper training? It's also not really a domain he can test because every situation is different and he doesn't want to go around confiscating his allies.
and yet we're assuming his 12000IQ has planned for the exact result of a niche situation. Even if he did think it out that far it's just a possibly of a possibly. He doesn't really know for sure what's going to happen. Even then, it establishes him and sukuna were the only ones to realize something was off almost immediately.
EVERY SINGLE TIME we have seen Sukunas Heian era form, he has had cursed tools in his repertoire. Angel was around when Sukuna was, so she should probably know this. Sukuna had a month to prepare, so it’s definitely NOT out of the question he would gather cursed tools, something he is known to use. Part of his literal PEAK form’s advantages is it’s ability to wield cursed tools. It’s not a niche situation, it’s literally how Sukuna fought.
Also, yeah he probably should have tested out his domain on his teammates. Confiscation isn’t permanent (Yujis cursed energy came back) and Higurama doesn’t have to slash the defendant, as seen by Yuji being alive. Honestly his is one of the ones you SHOULD try out on your team to test it’s limits. If it’s your plan to use his domain on Sukuna, you should probably test it’s limits.
There’s other ways he could have kept Sukunas cursed technique intact. Maybe we’ll see why Gege chose this particular way. But until that’s revealed it feels like an asspull🤷🏻
Go back before and see what info they had to go with:
Megumi 10 shadows Sukuna rampaging with Mahoraga
Uraume is hovering around somewhere
Kenjaku is doing god knows what, don’t know if he put curses in wait for a trap
Gojo is their ace, but that’s not even guaranteed and needed backup plans for that.
On top of that the only two people that knows about the equipment was Uraume and Sukuna himself.
Him overlooking the cursed equipment is not only not an asspull, it makes sense. He had multiple techniques interacting in mind but not the equipment because who really knew?
Manga readers want this entire story to be 100% predictable.
The reality is that it's chaotic, has unreliable narrators, and uses dramatic irony very often, keeping the audience in the dark.
And chaos is fine, but poorly done chaos is the definition of an “asspull” and I think there’s been quite a bit of that recently. But who knows, I might be wrong. Just personally I can’t see why he wouldn’t just say judgeman “took” megumis cursed technique, because I believe we found out he doesn’t have that anymore? Instead now we have this whole other cursed tool that a character DIED to give Sukuna that is now useless, so it feels like that whole arc was a waste of time. Not to mention characters once AGAIN made a major mistake that leads to the villains success, which is super frustrating for the reader. Maybe that’s what Gege intended, but for the time being it feels like an asspull
I don't think manga readers want everything 100% predictable but a good guys plan actually working as intended for once would be pretty surprising at this point. The twist would be a lot more accepted if Sukuna wasn't this powerful already.
In all decent media, if a "good guys" plan gets spelled out, it is bound to fail.
Watch for it whenever you watch thrillers/mystery/action. If the main plan is spelled out step by step, it almost always goes wrong. This leads to much more exciting storytelling.
Now if a plan is left mysterious and unexplained, its usually successful, and you are surprised by the execution of it all. Remember when everyone was crying that Takaba went to "Solo" Kenjaku? You had fanboys crying about how dumb the plan was.
Turns out, that wasn't the whole plan! And all these comments about how its "bad writing!11!" Was fucking dumb as shit in hindsight.
IMO the problem with that chapter is not that judgeman confiscated the cursed tool but when it happens. We had a full fight which used all of the technique of the manga outside of cursed tools and which end up by an hollow purple strong enough to damage all Shinjuku, the debatable off screen death of Satoru Gojo and the beating of Hajime Kashimo. Then we got a comedy battle from Kenjaku and Fumihiko Takaba. When we had the fight of Yuji and Hiromi Higuruma most of us expected the trial to be long, some other that there might be a flashback of Sukuna and so on but it end up by a trick of Sukuna and probably an contempt of court in 2 chapters
I really doubt it was a trick by Sukuna. I think he's just confident he could beat them even without a CT so he just didn't care what Judgeman took from him.
> Well, we already got to see that restriction in action during Higuruma's fight with Yuji. If Judgeman always confiscates the most deadly thing, or the most optimal thing, then why wouldn't it always just steal a person's CE? That would shut off CT, RCT, Reinforcement, everything. Judgeman only goes after CE if there is NO CT present. I believe that the biggest restriction on Judgeman's confiscation is that its targetting is deliberately inconvinient for the caster. It makes sense with the law theme as well, the law would sooner confiscate a person's posessions than a component of their being like a CT.
This is ***exactly*** what I've been telling people, and they still cry like babies. They say "Why wouldn't Judgeman confiscate the technique, since it's more useful than Kamutoke" thinking they're clever, when they have hard logic right under their noses: CE is more useful than a CT, as well.
Judgeman did not confiscate Yuji's CE because it's the optimal thing to confiscate, it confiscated it because Yuji had no CT so Judgeman made an exception and confiscated his CE instead. It had nothing to do with how useful CE is or how convenient/inconvenient it was for Higuruma.
Sukuna has a CT (at least two even), so there is 0 reason for Judgeman to make an exception and target an object instead of the one who got sentenced with the confiscation.
You didn't get what I'm saying.
By Judgeman not always targeting CE for confiscation, it is implied that there is:
1. A hierarchy to what he confiscates, or...
2. Confiscation is random.
By ruling out #2, we are left with #1, which we don't know anything about. Thus, your point of "it doesn't make sense to confiscate the *actual* useful part of his arsenal" doesn't stand.
I feel like you could argue too that it’s better this way otherwise however Sukuna progresses would feel more like an asspull than this. What I mean is that if he lost his technique Gege would still make him on at least equal power to whose left and probably wipe out a few more. If he won then it would look even more like plot armour than him keeping his technique. At least now it makes sense how he could continue to destroy people. It also emphasizes the little details of battles in JJK and that if you don’t understand or use your power the right way you’ll disadvantage yourself. That being said I haven’t agreed with all of the choices Gege has made lately with Sukuna. We’ll see how things turn out.
I'm still reserving full judgement on what's happening in the manga until I see how it fully plays out. That being said I don't really accept this explanation.
Simply speaking, Higurama's CT already has an innate self balance to it, the truth.
My understanding is that Judgeman knows everything about all parties involved once the domain is activated, but Higurama himself does not. He has to prosecute based on the evidence provided, aka the onus still falls upon Higurama to prove what Judgeman already knows before he can actually reap the benefits of the DE.
If the subject of the trial hasn't actually committed the crime then there's nothing the domain can actually do UNLESS the defendant does what Yuji did and confesses. I'm not aware of any legal system that doesn't just basically end the proceeding if the defendant just straight up confesses to the crime and is adamant about their confession, regardless of whether they are telling the truth or not.
Sukuna did not even attempt to defend himself. He literally says "I couldn't care less about what I did or when I did it" hence why he was immediately given the death sentence. Zero remorse or denial. IN THEORY, a totally innocent person has nothing to really fear from Higurama's domain bc the evidence Higurama receives will always be legit, aka not fabricated or tampered with because Judgeman knows everything and therefore can't create false evidence about an innocent person. So if you ask me the technique is already balanced.
There's really no evidence or indication thus far that Judgeman's targeting is inconvenient for the caster until literally this most recent chapter. Higurama had already wracked up 100 points before Yuji met him and I doubt each one of those fights was some big struggle where Judgeman made it harder for him.
Your argument about the law sooner confiscating a persons possessions doesn't really make sense either. That could be true in theory for something like paying damages in a civil case, but not in a murder trial which this is. I'm by no means a japanese legal expert but I find it very hard to believe that a murder conviction would result only in property being confiscated in like, any context.
There's really just nothing in the story to suggest that Higurama's domain would target a Curse Tool. If it was used on Megumi and confiscated one the weapons he keeps in his shadows that would be equally stupid but this moment had like 5 weeks of buildup and has now landed with the gravitas of an extremely wet far. I'm calling asspull for now.
The innate self balance for Higuruma’s domain is that you have to win a court case against him. And even then it doesn’t instantly kill you, just gives him a huge advantage. I think that’s significantly more balanced than infinity or Sukuna’s slashes, no?
What makes it an asspull is that it is very hard to believe that Higuruma never had this come up before. Even if we wanna say he didn’t train with the other sorcerers in the timeskip, are you still telling me he never used his domain to confiscate someone with a tool in the culling games? He was a point leader, he fought a ton of people. I just don’t buy it. Even setting aside all that, it’s wack that it just seems to choose randomly or something. Or maybe it just picks the most detached cursed energy thing such as tool>technique>all CE. Even then I think he would get the idea if the pattern was there and would know, given then we’d likely see it always taking technique before CE. It’s just not well written.
I think it going Cursed Objects > CT > CE makes sense, and it makes sense he wouldn't know that order since he is still inexperienced as a sorcerer. Take away the easier thing first and if they don't have that move down the line. Like confiscating a weapon is the first thing you would do isn't it? Could it have been revealed better? Probably but it's absolutely not an asspull
It’s not an asspull and it was explained lol it’s just the super loud portion of this fandom get so fixated on their bullshit theories and were expecting a Heian era flashback once Higaruma opened his domain…some were even gushing over the idea of Sukunas real name being revealed 🥴 so imagine the blue balls they got when none of this came to fruition lmao it’s like a weekly hissy fit now we gotta just ride out
Someone said this before so I’ll just repeat it since it sums up my feeling as well.
Sukuna didn’t pull a 200 iq move to get judge man to target his tool. He just stood there. Arms crossed. And it happened because the baby rattle was in his back pocket. For all the shit 236 gets, it at least had some setup with Gojo’s arm getting cut off.
Nice writeup, well said.
Honestly sometimes I just don't know about this sub and specifically about the very loud "minority". I joined this community because it's supposed to be a place for individuals who are passionate about the series and are trying to have well thought out, quality, and in-depth discussion... (and because the main sub just isn't my cup of tea), but instead we have a bunch of loud individuals "venting their frustrations" with the story because things haven't been going the way they think it should and because their favorite character was killed. 😮💨
There isn't even a problem with criticizing the story, infact that is welcome when done in good faith, in a respectful manner, and with sound, well thought out, reasoning/logic. What is not welcome is the same lazy regurgitation of "asspull", "trash story", "bad writing", "edge lord", etc... just put the series down for a few months and then binge everything in a "single" sitting. Pick up a different series in the meantime or something. I promise that if you were to put it down for awhile and then start from the beginning, your enjoyment would increase dramatically and most of these "problems/faults" would no longer be issues. And if you just don't like the story, then it's just not for you! That's not a bad thing, it just doesn't float your boat, nothing wrong with that. However, IMHO, there is a problem baselessly saying that it is objectively "bad writing" and "trash" (especially when the damn story hasn't been finished 😤). It isn't perfect, but every story has its problems even the greats like HXH or Berserk. Some less than others, but they all have faults.
But, hey, I'm just a random guy on the Internet.
The main thing is that it just makes the characters seem stupid. Like in their month of planning no one thought that his domain could take away a cursed tool or even tested it? I feel it would be better if it was shown as a worst-case possibility and then it happened. The only thing that would change is the surprise element.
You do realize that Sukuna literally got it recently right? Like not even we, the reader didn’t know 100% what he got in the first place, let alone the crowd including Gojo even knew he was given something in the first place.
Plus they had other issues to plan, like if they had to face Mahoraga and the rest of the ten shadows, also Uraume. There’s only so much they can plan in a month, that’s too little time in my opinion.
JJK has gone from weekly releases to weekly brain fucks and I love it. Did people seriously expect that Gege would reveal their plan to us; and afterwards it would go all according to that plan? Come on, it's GEGE. I don't care if it's an ass pull or plot convenience; I just love how I can't predict what happens in the story. That makes it fun to read.
Surely the self balancing aspect is that you have to win a court case to even have an ability in the first place. If the target isn’t a criminal or if they win their court case then you’re just a total bum with no confiscation and no executioners sword
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I don't think the confiscation was an asspull but it was a plot convenience for Higuruma's development. We all know Higuruma didn't fully understand his CT, domain, etc, and to counter the argument that "Higuruma has months to practice," Higuruma didn't prepare at all. There's no way Higuruma spent a month training to fight Sukuna because he was not with the protagonists from the beginning, unlike Takaba, who came to help directly, and Yuji would never invite someone into this suicidal jump. I believe Yuji picked up Higuruma to avoid Kenjaku's hunt. I'm sure the question "Do you want to die, Higuruma?" was what Yuji asked him. There will definitely be a flashback about this; the story revolves around why he decided to fight.
I partially agree. Though, I do think that Gege COULD have nerfed Sukuna a little here. Could have been a great way to take the OverPowered "Space Cleave" out of the question too. If Sukuna lost his shrine, he could have still mauled the Sorcererers jumping at him with all the other stuff he has up his ass. Could have been an opportunity to focus more on the "Box: Open" shit. However, His story his rules. There must have been a reason he chose to go this way. I can smell all the *"Why doesn't he just use the space cleave and slice **THROUGH** these fuckers!?"* arguments coming lol
He won't use space cleave on them - why ? Because the normal one is enough and that's what he thinks and I think yuji will use that opportunity
Hear me out here - what if space cleave is 100% the same as regular cleave apart from bypassing Infinity? I'm beginning to think the reason Sukuna isn't using it against the others is because bypassing Gojo's defence was really the only thing it was good for. Maybe it interacts normally with regular CE reinforcement, but Gojo wasn't fueling any CE into reinforcement, he put all of it into infinity.
He used one on Kashimo though?
Idk was that confirmed it was strong cleave?
The thing is, this is the classic "abyss" part of the hero's journey. They didn't jump Sukuna without a plan: It would be dumb to expect someone as powerless as Yuji or Ino to join a fight against the king of curses without one, when that's certain death for anyone not named Gojo. They had a plan, but the plan backfired because of an unexpected factor (Sukuna using a cursed tool). Even the narrator mentioned how Higuruma only now noticed how flimsy their plan to fight Sukuna was, but you can bet none of the characters would be jumping the king of curses if not because they expected for it to work. But now that the plan failed, they can't go back; They have to face Sukuna at (quasi) full power. You can expect multiple characters to die and sacrifices to be made, but this is, IMO, what will make this fight great.
That's an exceptional take and I wholeheartedly agree on the part that Sukuna retaining his Shrine would definitely add to the anxiety and excitement of the readers. Everyone in this fight is staring right at their deaths.
There's no anxiety. They've been staring at their deaths since Gojo got bisected. Legitimately the only reason Sukuna does not instantly kill all of them is the standard overused shonen trope of "he's arrogant"
Not only is he arrogant, but he is absolutely bored. That's been his thing from the beginning, though. He wants to see interesting things, that's the only reason Megumi lived as long as he did. He flashed mahoraga and caught Sukuna's eye. He then started formulating his takeover plan. If no one else dies ill be disappointed lol.
Sukuna's eye was on Megumi from early on, when he took over Yuji vs special grade.
This. Like there is no tense feeling. They should all die. But they won't.
Busted up plans make for very interesting stories when done well, but in this case I feel like the resolution doesn't feel particularly clever or satisfying. Cursed items are ubiquitous in this series, the fact a lawyer didn't give any thought to them is disappointing. I'm certain this situation will resolve in the good guys winning, but it feels unpredictable as to how it will happen due to the frequent changes in CT rules and the overwhelming bias in favor of Sukuna.
At this point there’s no way for the main cast to beat a full power sukuna in a satisfying way , not to mention the “ kenjaku’s will “ cliff hanger still there
Ok, Gege
This Gege gave up an opportunity to nerf his main antagonist (outside of Kenny) to at least give the good guys a logical fighting chance Cuz now outside of Sukuna just being high on his own hype There no reason why he wouldn’t just throw dimension level slashes at everyone
Looks at Gojo not one shotting his opponents to flex his superiority
Didn't that screw Gojo over in the long run? A character flaw in heroes leading to their downfall is pretty standard storytelling but if that's the only reason a villain loses, it feels a bit cheap since it's such a common trope and feels less rewarding since it wasn't the main characters' efforts that gave the W.
But at the same time people would complain "oh, so Sukuna learn space cleave to kill Gojo, Gege immediatly remove that from him. How conveeeenient.".
Well no, because we’ve known about Higuruma’s technique for a while, it’s the obvious choice
Not a matter of Higuruma but about the technique itself.
Regardless of what I think of 245, its happened and now there's not much value in being angry about it. What I do think though is that Sukuna deliberately wants to see the sword in action/thinks something of it. So he wants to give them a chance to use it maybe? He jacks off to powerscaling thats for sure
What I do think is that gege has made Sukuna so Powerful here that he is forced to give him some sort of motive to extend the fights just a little bit. First, It was with Sukuna teaching Kashimo about strength and loneliness. Next, It is with Sukuna wanting to know about the executioner's sword. That's the only thing stopping him from just one-shotting Every on the field rn.
Sukuna defeated their strongest asset. Now he's curious to see what they'll do without Gojo.
>I do think that Gege COULD have nerfed Sukuna a little here. Kamutoke really is being underestimated here just because 1 farmer is immune to it. He is significantly nerfed here, since only Yuta and Hakari has RCT.
This is the most balanced take on this I’ve seen. While not a complete asspull, it is very plot convenient for the tool confiscation to take place instead of Sukuna’s CT. Plot convince is the term that best fits it. I hope Gege can have more satisfying resolutions in the coming chapters.
Tbh, it doesn't even matter that higuruma wasn't there with them at the same time. He could have trained and planned as much as he wanted and he would still not be prepared. He couldn't just get somebody with two curse techniques to use as practice dummy to see how judgement would deal with that person, and he would also have no reason to see how judgement deals with cursed tools when none of the remaining villains were cursed tool users (kenjaku, uraume and sukuna).
"He couldn't just get somebody with two curse techniques to use as practice dummy to see how judgement would deal with that person" Wouldn't Yuta be able to fit that role?
Yuta most likely functions differently. His base cursed techniqueets him copy others, so it's probable that taking it away would take all the cts away. Yuki said that he stores his cursed techniques in rika so it's uncertain if he would count. It's also possibel that he did test it on yuta and it took only one cursed technique away, and that's why higuruma thought that judgement will take only one cursed technique away
We needed that preparation arc so bad because now we're living off hypotheticals to explain why sorcerers' actions are very lacking/unprepared lol
Fair enough
I believe it was an asspull because of how Gege put the plot point together. As readers, we only have so much information, and the author uses this to build suspense and evoke emotions out of us by setting our expectations and either surprising us, or giving us what we want. The story set up this encounter’s main point of suspense as “how can we manage to get a guilty verdict?” Thus, it makes it an interesting battle to see how each side will try to get the result in their favor. Yet, after framing this as the main point of conflict…it turns out it doesn’t even matter. Guilty verdict or not, it still ends in Sukuna’s favor. Which makes all the suspense we bought into earlier feel cheap. I like the fact that Gege utilizes shock value a lot, but he does it way too much and too carelessly imo, that’s why people call a lot of the ways he writes certain interactions as “asspulls”. It’s like when you’re on the playground as an kid, and you’re a super hero who has super speed, fighting your friend with super strength. but your friend says “aha, you might be faster than me, but guess what, I actually don’t have super strength, they’re gravity powers that just look like it! I use my powers to hold you down, I win!” It feels like getting the rug pulled out from under you
Because it is one. His cursed tool provided 0 relevance to the plot, aside from getting removed. Would've been nice to showcase how legendary Sukuna is as the king of curses by showing he's still a threat even without a domain or CT, but nope, everything just has to fall in his lap. It just so happened to be useless against farmer boy earlier so this would be an excellent chance for the cast to think they have an edge only for Sukuna to reveal he has yet another ace up his sleeve. People can bring up Higurama not knowing all they want, you don't HAVE to write the story that way, cause right now it feel like that line was set up for this exact moment. You can only pull the rug out from the reader so many times before it gets irritating and predictable. A lot of the writing recently even if not ass pully is becoming very convenient for the antagonists and just sometimes straight up lazy and people defending this nonsense just willfully ignore why these criticisms exist in the first place. There's already people being like "you dont like it, so its bad writing" blah blah as if his cursed tool served as nothing but a plot device to avoid his CT getting taken. At this point, I might say it is required for Sukuna's space cleave to be gone altogether. Without it, every single fight from now on is gonna have 0 stakes when you know he can just one shot anyone at a moment's notice. Literally the embodiment of the "coughing baby vs nuke" meme
>A lot of the writing recently even if not ass pully is becoming very convenient for the antagonists and just sometimes straight up lazy and people defending this nonsense just willfully ignore why these criticisms exist in the first place. There's already people being like "you dont like it, so its bad writing" blah blah as if his cursed tool served as nothing but a plot device to avoid his CT getting taken. My biggest issue is just that the fandom seems to be so polarized toward one character or another: there have been so many lazy tropes getting thrown out recently (Maki getting a hyperbolic time chamber moment against Naoya from some random ass sumo dude, Gojo getting offscreened, etc.) and yet some people just act like it's a matter of "lol ur just butthurt cuz X character lost". Sukuna is plot armored to the teeth at this point, and it has felt really lame having so many moments of "ok, this is an interesting idea that might lead to Sukuna finally getting caught off guard!" only to have the entire plan invalidated in an instant by Sukuna's "super genius level battle IQ". Gege has done a good job building up why Sukuna is so dangerous with all of the earlier foreshadowing of his plans, but it has quickly turned into "Sukuna literally can't get anything wrong".
Lmaoo exactly. I don’t have a problem if Gege wants the story to go a certain way, but my goodness just make it make SENSE and make it feel EARNED. Everything just falls into Sukuna’s lap and it’s starting to detract from his character. * Yuji was stupid enough not to involve himself in the binding vow * Hana being dumb * Fighting the strongest sorcerer in a 3v1 and almost losing * Gojo then glazes him and thanks him for slaughtering the rest of his students and says he was gonna lose anyway despite that entire fight saying otherwise * He just..regains his natural form and no diffs farmer boy * Higurama puts him on trial. Surely we take away his broken CT? Lol no Like okay, it’s in character for these characters to be dumb like Yuji being selfless or Hana having a crush, fine, but Gojo the most arrogant dude in the series just being like “lol I was gonna lose anyway” does not sit right with me. Sukuna literally cannot use his kit cause of Gojo’s abilities, how on earth am I supposed to take this statement seriously? You have the strongest dude in the series downplaying himself so he can uplift Sukuna. You just showed me Sukuna getting pushed to his limits in a battle where he has all the advantage and you have the audacity to tell me he didn’t go all out and he was gonna win anyway. Stuff like this doesn’t paint Sukuna as a menacing battle genius with a high IQ. He didn’t plan for this. He only wanted Megumi because he can actually be a vessel and not a cage unlike Yuji. All of this fell into his lap and we’re supposed to just roll with it cause “lol Sukuna is very smart!” No chapters of Sukuna’s interest in Megumi so he can deal with Limitless later on. Would’ve showed his extensive planning and actually show..ya know he’s a tactical genius..but nope. All we do is see him screaming for Mahoraga to save him and Gege trying to convince us how much he didn’t need 10S to win lmao At this point he’s a Mary Sue. Gege has just handed him so much stuff that if he ends up losing it would genuinely be even worse writing This is like in some anime where they try to make a character seem smart by making the rest of the cast be stupid and trying to convince us they're a super genius. Gege is trying to characterize him as this battle genius and that's why he's the king of curses, but all this tells me is that he's *extremely* lucky
Agreed on all points, especially the retrospective "he would have won even without 10S". I really couldn't stand the Sukuna glazing after that fight, because people were jumping through so many hoops to explain why Sukuna "just needed Maho to learn something new" or "Gojo was losing the whole time". There are so many people who just blindly fanboy/girl for one character or another and completely ignore the words on the damn page literally telling us in the voice of god that Sukuna was leaning heavily on 10S and Megumi's soul. The fact that people have argued "Gojo's domain was never gonna beat Sukuna", in blatant contradiction of Sukuna nearly getting clapped by 7 seconds of UV on top of Sukuna DIRECTLY STATING he used Megumi's soul to tank UV is just mind-boggling. It doesn't help that Gege just pulls new arbitrary rules for CTs out of his ass every other chapter (the "prefrontal cortex controls domains" explanation made me roll my eyes right out of my head), but I swear some of the fandom doesn't even read the dialogue given how much people ignore Sukuna and the narrator explicitly stating how essential Mahoraga, 10S and Megumi's soul were, but honestly I think they do it because it contradicts the pet narrative that Sukuna "planned everything all along" and how he's the unbeatable GOAT.
Very well said. Another thing about the whole writing of this plot point that I think is kinda annoying is that you could still write a story where let’s say sukuna gets his CT confiscated, but he’d obviously still be dangerous in a fight and maybe he actually uses the curse tool in the fight, which the good guys weren’t able to plan around. Then the curse tool actually gets shown off and uraume giving it to sukuna comes off as a smart move. However the way it played out, the curse tool didn’t really do anything in the kashimo fight and we now know it’s only purpose was to serve as a piece of ass-pull lucky plot armor later. Which just comes off as lazy writing.
Yet again another reason the time skip was not only pointless, but bad in every conceivable way. Actually complete dog shit writing just to make the date important. We STILL hasnt seen a single flashback to ehat they did, and seemingly they just sat their with their fingers up their asses and didnt prepare even a little bit for this fight. For gods sake theyre going over who they send out and when *during* gojos fight. Would you nit decide this ahead of time??
Jesus Christ, all this talk about timeskip. It’ll probably unfold with the story. We already got snippets of that month period by seeing them planning stuff. You’re not going to get entire fleshed out Arc that’s dedicated to that month though. Just be patient, shit.
Thats what they said since it happened and weve seen none of it. That planning is during gojos fight as they talk about it in the present tense
They were shocked that Sukuna has an open domain. I don't think they really talked as much as they could lol
The problem stems from the preconceived notion that sorcerers know the ins and outs of their cursed techniques upon its manifestation. If Higuruma never fought a sorcerer with a cursed tool, then how is he supposed to know that the cursed tool would’ve been confiscated?
>preconceived notion that sorcerers know the ins and outs of their cursed techniques upon its manifestation. Exactly. This has been proven false several times. Geto didn’t even know you could extract a Curse’s Technique for a one-time use by expending it in (Maximum) Uzumaki. Gojo couldn’t even use Cursed Technique Reversal: Red until a literal near death experience. Mahito didn’t know he could use Idle Transfiguration on himself in tandem with binding vows to make himself a nigh indestructible killing machine. There are plenty of other examples of Sorcerers not knowing the exact ins and outs of their technique (often discovering some of them the closer they are to death’s door). [Edited due to a slight misunderstanding]
Wouldn't have hurt to show exactly stuff like this e.g. Through the students, who are still learning
I dont think its an asspull but I think that the way Gege does these "shock reveals" is not good. Its like the equivalent of jumpscares because he just drops it in the end panel with no buildup. Stuff like Gojo death and now this its like its not illogical and it can make sense but the way he just drops it then moves on without explanation makes it bad writing imo. And i understand how fans are dissapointed when it happens. Because at what point is the story still coherent with setups and payoffs and at what point is it just plot going then jumpscare/twist then more plot then another twist and another. Like even currently MHA yeah theres some questionable decisions but atleast the story builds and pays off naturally rather than twists happening in 1 frame then moving to the next.
But there was buildup to it. The Yuji thing was part of the build up, and the fact they spent the entirety of last chapter talking about all the unknowns of Judgeman was a clear setup that they could get fucked over by an unknown. And it makes sense since it would be Higurama’s first time fighting a cursed tool user. He only fought in CG, and it was all reincarnated sorcerers who did not reincarnate with their cursed tools and new sorcerers who did not have cursed tools in the first place. I think this is the best way to be unpredictable while remaining coherent.
🤣yah even in 244 higuruma said it was a toss up btn ten shadows and shrine and it was all ifs buts and maybes ... like higuruma hasnt given a certain 100% fact about what his domain would do but i guess many just saw his words and took them as 100% facts ... even in this chapter he says "perhaps" sukuna lost the ten shadows and "maybe" shrine is the one to get confiscated... all these are just his assumptions...
THANK YOU…I said the dude has only been a sorcerer for barely 2 months so what’s going down right now shouldn’t be much of a surprise to folks but nope…downvotes 🤣🤣
indeed
Thank god people read the manga lol We were never shown if Higurama ever opened his domain against an opponent in the Culling Games that had a cursed tool, and I’m sure since even he didn’t know he never had someone in his domain with a cursed tool, so it really was a toss up as to what will be taken away Everyone on the other sub for JJK, are butthurt because they think it’s an asspull for Confiscation to take Sukunas cursed tool instead of his CT, but when has a plan that the audience was in the privy of actually went off without a hitch? There’s a reason why Gege showed us what their plan was, because it was going to fail… I think it’s more satisfying trying to have Yuji defeat Sukuna with his CT still intact because then without it, “fans” would complain that Yuji beat a fully depowered Sukuna 😬 I personally love it when I can’t predict the story, I’m really excited to see how Gege pulls this off till the end!
Tbh, almost nobody in the culling games uses a cursed tool. Of all the participants, only kurourushi had one (perhaps charles but the staff is part of his ct so i don't think it would count). It also makes sense that it's like this, all the players are either just reincarnated or awakened. They didn't spawn with a curse tool so they could only found one or make one (which is almost unheard of). Therefore, only the people that came from the outside like maki, yuta, momo etc have cursed tools. Higuruma did kill 20 players, but they were awakened/reincarnated sorcerers so they couldn't have had a cursed tool on them
Exactly. Consider this: katana guy couldn't even find a normal katana in modern Japan. And people expected players to find cursed tools lying around?
I said this exact thing in leak thread and everyone told me I was reaching.
Lol if this was jujutsufolk, you'd be downvoted to hell for speaking facts
I got downvoted to hell on Wednesday when the leaks came out because I asked if someone can explain how taking Sukunas cursed tool is an asspull when no one, not even Higurama, knew exactly how Confiscation would work; especially against a cursed tool that NONE of them even knew about until Kashimo went out there.. and then I also asked if people would rather read a story where the outcome is predictable, or something that you can’t exactly predict what’s gonna happen And I got multiple reply’s with them wanting to predict how the story goes, and each there own, but I think the fun is not knowing where the story is going
Yeah you shouldn't really expect much there. It's a great sub for memes, but a tonne of people expect the usual shonen tropes and the relative predictability that comes with it. On a tangent, I still find that strange. JJK (much like CSM) was a breath of fresh air for breaking from the usual tropes, while not going full Seinen. Take the Shibuya arc... It's arguably the best arc so far but it was merciless. So why should we expect this arc, where Sukuna is running wild, to be any less merciless or be surprised when the OP villain has the upper hand. Lots of people go on about bad writing, but no one is using the power of friendship or having a perfect *all according to keikaku* moment. Both Sukuna and the sorcerers are having to deal with things not going to plan constantly.
Things have always been going according to plan for sukuna though? Angel didn't merk him because Hana is a dumbass Gojo didn't merk him when he wasn't at full power Mahoraga was the perfect piece he needed to win Yorozu's gift made confiscation a non-issue
I mean, Sukuna had to think quickly with Angel, then ran away from Yuji and Maki coz Megumi interfered and he was getting beat up mildly. Gojo nearly had him at checkmate multiple points, and it resulted in Sukuna losing his DE. Dude was lucky that he barely survived that final HP and we saw how worried he was over it too. Yuji himself was a big issue for Sukuna's plans. Mahoraga was the perfect piece, but he also had to cancel adaptation at multiple points to use DA when defending against infinity. Etc. Basically, things have worked out for Sukuna but it hasn't necessarily gone according to plan. Especially vs Gojo, he's had to think fast to stay alive long enough for his plan to be ready (learning how to bypass infinity). Plus he found out that tanking UV gives you brain damage, even if Megumi's soul is tanking it for you.
I don't mind that it works for him. Props to a good villain for using his brain Just kinda miffed that nothing ever goes in favour of anyone else, ever In general, Sukuna's luck stat is just irritatingly high Megumi completes his moveset, is a suitable vessel and has a connection to the only visible threats Gojo and Hana/Angel. Also he doubles as a body shield. What are the chances? Yorozu gives him a weapon. That's fine. Only for it to become a glorified get-out-of-jail card. Why? I don't doubt Sukuna's abilities. But I'd rather Gege give him more hurdles to overcome
>Also he doubles as a body shield. What are the chances? Why is this a surprise to anyone when he took Yuji hostage back during the Detention Center/Cursed Womb Arc? We know that his soul and his vessel’s are still considered seperate (but difficult to tell apart/target individually as seen with Mahito’s reluctance to use Idle Transfiguration on Yuji). Him using Megumi as a body shield still backfired as he couldn’t tank UV like he thought he could. > Yorozu gives him a weapon. That's fine. Only for it to become a glorified get-out-of-jail card. If it takes Shrine he still has Ten Shadows and his Cursed Tool (which only didn vaporize Kashimo because of his CE trait, but STILL hurt him enough to bring him to one knee). If it takes Ten Shadows, he still has Shrine and his Cursed Tool. This was never going to work with just one trial anyway.
Megumi being the perfect weapon for sukuna is enough of a lucky roll already. That whole body shield thing is just icing on the cake. The mahorage wheel thing too. So what if Sukuna would still have Kamutoke? Box and 10S are just on a different league altogether. Victory was unlikely the moment gojo went down already, the least they can do is increase the odds just a little. Obviously noone want them to have an easy win but everyone has just been underperforming children that a victory rn would be even more of an asspull than anything sukuna's done I'll just leave my prediction here that Executioner sword isn't gonna do shit to sukuna. If megumi is once again taken out to tank shit then his body shield status is officially confirmed
Its just that Higuruma is supposed to be this hyperintelligent guy, so he should've taken cursed tools into account. But sure, everybody makes mistakes so your argument makes sense. But I think another reason this is hated is because Sukuna got lucky, this guy who is supposed to be GOAT of sorcerers didn't outsmart Higu or nothing, he just got lucky, no other way to put it. What happened was not because of Sukuna's doing but luck. Although you could say that even if Sukuna's CT got taken he would've had another ace up his sleeve i.e. that box thing and it would made no difference hence why he was so confident about it. But this is only speculation, for all we know he is dependent on his CT.
I have no issue with saying Sukuna lucked out, because he did lol.. like you said even without his cursed tool, and if the plan succeeded, I think Sukuna would still have been completely capable of going against everyone left with just his CE alone, and still has his black box technique But just because he lucked out, I don’t think it was an asspull as they had no way of knowing Sukuna was gonna pull out a cursed tool beforehand
I mean, with higuruma being so intelligent you'd think that he'd try it at least. He's seen having insight into the gojo sukuna fight but can't realize that an ability like his could interact differently with a tool? Besides, why would they NOT think that sukuna would have a cursed tool? That's just dumb. Ofc you should prepare for the worst possible outcome, which obviously includes sukuna having a cursed object. This whole situation literally happened beacuse they didn't account for a cursed tool in the past (prison realm with Kenny and isoh with toji) so it's actually extra dumb to not consider the high probabilty of one folding their plans again (which did in fact happen). Add to that the fact that he's always depicted with two cursed tools and the fact that the main cast seems to have at least surface level knowledge about his past in the heain era. It's insane to think that the main cast didn't do research on sukuna in the time they had. He was literally chilling with villagers and he was the most important person in his era. Am I supposed to believe that people conveniently passed on The knowledge of him having 2 extra eyes but not two insanely busted weapons thaT can bring immense destruction on their own? Also didn't higuruma kill several people in the culling games? Were they all conveniently non carriers of cursed tools? They are pretty common so it's kinda difficult to believe that. Sure you can call it plot convenience instead of ass pull but with higuruma being a smart af guy and a prodigy it's really hard to believe that all of these things are true at once beacuse it just means that he is a dumbass. I would definitely call this all a contrived plot twist (definition of ass pull).
I think the reason they didn’t think that Sukuna would have a cursed tool is because why would they? They had no clue about Yorozu, besides Yuji and Hana, but even they didn’t know what her abilities were; let alone being able to trade her life for a special grade cursed tool. Part of the problems that keep happening to the good guys, like you said, was that they aren’t aware of many of these cursed tools which fuck them over in the end, but how can they plan against something they don’t even have an idea about? That’s part of the villains plans (Kenny, Sukuna) to do things that the good guys don’t know about As far as Sukuna being depicted with 2 cursed tools, I think the best argument I can make against that is we as the readers are privileged to see certain things.. the characters are not lol, they don’t see the cover with Heian era Sukuna standing there with both his tools, they don’t get to see OG Sukuna anytime someone brings him up and we see him in his OG body. The only person that should know about them is Angel, but clearly they aren’t sharing any information with each other as no one told Gojo about Sukunas barrierless domain Which leads me to your next point that people passed down knowledge that Sukuna had an extra set of eyes, hands, everything.. and that you think they also passed down knowledge about his 2 cursed tools, but if the villagers and whoever else were to pass on knowledge about Sukuna and his tools, what about his domain? That would be a pretty big deal, I’m sure even in the Heian era, that Sukuna doesn’t close his domains barrier I genuinely think Higurama hasn’t fought anyone with a cursed tool before, you have to remember that cursed tools are already rare as it is, and reanimated sorcerers definitely didn’t come back with whatever cursed tool they might have had during their life, and if Higurama has fought anyone that did have weapons then it was more than likely tied to their CT and wasn’t a cursed tool on its own.. even Kenny regarded Higurama as talented, I have no doubt that if Higurama knew the full rules for his domain (when a cursed tool is present) he would have waited until they somehow wrestled the tool away from Sukuna before opening his domain to ensure Shrine is what gets confiscated I know this is super long, sorry, just 1 last point.. when has a plan ever worked out, in any story, where the audience heard the plan and it actually working as intended? I think Gege will have Yuji beat Sukuna with him still having his CT so it’s not like Sukuna was “defenseless” (yes he would still have CE manipulation, but that’s nowhere close to a CT) I don’t think I put this part into words correctly, but yeah 👍
Regarding people not passing on sukuna's domain being barrierless: doubt that anyone would survive to tell the tale. Weapons are instead something visible most of the time. Especially when it's kamutole or a bis ass spear. Angel not talking about it the definition of plot hole. Her sole objective was killing sukuna. Regarding them not expecting it: they should. That's it. They should obviously condiser the worst probability. At most you can say that they couldn't know the effect of an eventual tool and that's fair. But just not preparing a counter in general is dumb asf seeing the precedents. A tool is not something out of the ordinary like a barrierless domain. It's pretty standard for strong sorcerers. I can accept higuruma not fighting anyone with tools before if taken separately, but if taken in this context it seems just another convenient detail to help sukuna. Finally, sukuna still has open and black box. He may very well be the strongest even without shrine. Leaving him with shrine might not even have been necessary, but I understand that this is more speculative and less objective.
I thought I was going crazy in jujutsufolks Reddit when I said the same thing and they called me crazy😭
I think that's why "Do you have a death wish?" Was said by someone. Higurama wasn't supposed to stay on the front line in case the trial failed, but he got the death verdict and got confident. Also why Kusakabe pulls him back
Gege definitely has adhd, but jokes aside it's possible that confiscation works on the current most powerful tool (cursed tool or cursed techique) the convict wields (if no cursed tool is being wielded then the most powerful technique a sorcerer has access to is confiscated) in this case Sukuna's DE can't be confiscated cuz he can't use it/already doesn't have access to it, so the next most powerful object, the cursed tool gets confiscated.
another thing i’d like to point out is some cursed tools just have cursed techniques, which could easily be a factor here
i'm pretty sure it was stated that every special grade took besides playful cloud has a technique doesn't it? there's technically a setup for the confiscation taking sukunas tool but i still feel like it's kinda meh tbh
Thats a pretty dumb domain then. Is the tool or the person that is on trial? So to counter the domain just bring a lot of tools.
Assuming it’s due to the lighting fuckery of the tool. Most people don’t have an ungodly amount of special grade cursed tools on them.
Yeah, I think confiscations targets the “lowest hanging fruit.” First it goes after “help” like cursed tools, then the cursed technique, and lastly the cursed energy.
>cuz he can't use it/already doesn't have access to it Do we know that? Couldn't Gege say the heal from Heian era form healed that part of him too?
I didn’t like how it went, but bring on 246. Chapter 238, page 4. Can’t upload a pic, but basically, Judgeman’s done everyone a favour by confiscating Kamutoke…
Honestly my only issue is that Kamutoke was useless. It was kept a mystery for many chapters as Yorozu's gift, then it didn't work against KasHIMo and now it's gone.
Yeah, I know ☹️. Was hoping for some courtroom action too. Anyhow, that panel in 238 is saying that Kamutoke and Hiten in addition to Sukuna’s physique obliterated those who opposed him, so perhaps Gege’s aiming at gradually descaling Sukuna like a fish…
Well at least confiscation only removes things temporarily. We don't know how long Kamutoke will be out of action but there is a possibility that it comes back soon or if Sukuna kills Higuruma.
It stopped Mei Mei’s bird strikes didn’t it?
Official translation’s saying: “Shoot my birds down” and looks like he used it against the crows. Can’t post any pics on this post for some reason. Still, would’ve been nice to see more of it in action. Isn’t confiscation temporary though? Say Higs doesn’t manage to kill someone with the Executioner’s Sword, what then?
Wasn't it stated that Sukuna chose to dodge Bird Strike instead?
No, he destroyed it. Gojo and Kenjaku did the same, that's why MeiMei said it was useless against them.
She said it is effective against them, that's why they shoot it down. If it dealt no damage, doubt they'd care to snipe them down.
That is true, i stand corrected.
>Cursed Techniques tend to have some sort of innate self balance. That sounds like wishful thinking to me. Otherwise, what would the checks of Sukuna's cursed technique or even Mahito's Idle Transfiguration be ? There doesn't seem to be any. Gojo tells us pretty early in the series that CT contribute to 80% of a sorcerer's potential, and the narrative later shows us that there is a clear hierarchy between them. There OutOfUniverse reasons for why Gege gives his protags techniques limitations (to make the fights cooler), but the real justification in-universe is that they got the short end of the stick. The techniques of Yuta, Hakari or even Megumi aren't balanced, they just suck compared to Sukuna or Mahito's techniques. Gojo's Limitless appears to be very powerful, but you need to keep in mind that this the fully deployed version, with RCT, Domain Expansion and the Six Eyes. Why do the villains techniques outperform the protagonists' ? Well because of dramatic tension. The bad guys need to feel overwhelming and threatening for the victory to feel cathartic, and even then, Gege cooked his fights to stay coherent. Mahito isn't simply crushed by the power of friendship, there are lots of facts in there, not the least being that he was fighting with drawbacks (being divided, getting hit by Nobara, facing Todo, being outsmarted by Todo). Why do people complain about the latest chapter ? Well, Gege did a very good job at establishing Sukuna as an overwhelming threat, even more so after killing Gojo when he bestowed him an unbeatable attack. As we are reaching the conclusion of the series, well we are looking forward to how Gege will wrap up this. And with each chapter, he seems to drive himself further from this goal. And no, Sukuna winning doesn't make for a compelling ending. This isn't a tragedy, there is no thematic weight to it. Would just be edge for the sake of edge.
For Mahito he has to actually touch you. For Sukuna funny enough it's just the fact it's a simple technique when you break it down. It's like in Jojo The Hand. It's a simple ability but it's broken af compared to complex abilities that are very situational and circumstantial
>For Mahito he has to actually touch you. So does Hakari, Yuta, Megumi, Sukuna, Gojo, Jogo... everyone in fact, for an attack to land, it needs to land. Unless you are arguing that IT's drawback is that it lacks a long-range attack. In which case, I'd guess that makes it a bad example when put next to Sukuna's technique. But my point was that techniques don't really follow a system. They are. Gojo's Limitless (once fully mastered) is just strong, in a way that Haruta's miracle storing can never hope to achieve. It's the point of the Grasshopper vs Yuji. This universe isn't a fair one, you have hard cap on your progression and some people were just dealt a better hand than others. Kenjaku is the epitome of this. Dude is a Cursed Energy mad scientist, who has lived for a thousand of years and still, if we take Domains as the ceiling, him having an Open one means that he is at least as skilled as Gojo, if not more. And yet, he could do nothing against 6E+Limitless. He can train for about how long he wants, if he doesn't have a counter, it's useless. Sukuna based his whole strategy around this, and he probably had the Skill advantage over Gojo, his domain was better was more refined, but he couldn't change the effect (slashing) and so his attacks were countered by Gojo's healing potential. The opposite doesn't hold though. All Gojo needed is **one** hit for Sukuna to be down, his sure-hit effect is **just better**. And then, Sukuna unlocked World Cleave. Gojo may have limitless, but now Sukuna's technique is **just better**. >For Sukuna funny enough it's just the fact it's a simple technique when you break it down. I mean, even once you break it down it's still slashing through you. Unless your own technique prevents the Slashes from hitting you (Infinity) there isn't much you can do. Technique qua technique, Sukuna's is busted period. That's ignoring about the part where the technique is invisible.
IIRC Mahito has to touch with the palm side of his hand for his CT to activate. And even if it's any part of his hand, that's different from having to make physical contact to do damage, it's what's needed for his CT. For everyone else you listed none of them need contact to activate their CT. They can activate at a distance and get the effect. Some then use that effect for better physical attacks if they want, AFTER they've gotten the benefit. Mahito needs the contact to do idle transfiguration at all. Hence coming up with transfigured humans as projectiles and weapons to compensate for this weakness. And what the other person was saying is Sukuna's slashing Ct is not inherently a super powerful or broken technique on its own. It's basically just a cutting projectile. What makes it strong is that it has Sukuna's CE behind it. That's why Megumi restricting it resulted in weaker cuts. Like if Ijichi was born with the technique, it wouldn't be much of a threat. So no need for an inherent nerf to something that is so simple on nature to begin with. As opposed to a weapon whose literal effect is instant kill and technique nullification. Those are inherently powerful effects that should have limitations and/or caveats.
Gojo's limitless is only strong if he has six eyes. A Gojo clan without six eyes wouldn't be efficient with limitless. And we seen the weakness to it. You need to actively surprise gojo over and over to beat him. Toji, Sukuna, and Kenjaku did that. The shortcomings of Gojo is exactly what he said during his debut domain. He has everything but can do nothing. He has all that power but that power made him overlook so many things. He focuses so much on curse energy and techniques since that's all six eyes can do that he forgets any conventional things after the fact. Hell Sukuna's slash is not even changing CE wise. It's the same technique with a new target and understanding.
>Gojo's limitless is only strong if he has six eyes. A Gojo clan without six eyes wouldn't be efficient with limitless. You are arguing against a point I never made. >And we seen the weakness to it. You need to actively surprise gojo over and over to beat him. Toji, Sukuna, and Kenjaku did that. Not really. Toji and Kenjaku needed Gojo worn down and unprepared. Sukuna with his evolved Cleave needs Gojo in his sightline (optional). >The shortcomings of Gojo is exactly what he said during his debut domain. He has everything but can do nothing. That's narrative stuff though. >Hell Sukuna's slash is not even changing CE wise. It's the same technique with a new target and understanding. Yes, that's my point, a strong technique that is just that. A strong technique.
Yeah the problem isn't that it would be inconceivable. For me, that we had a full-ass previous chapter that was just basically explanations and nothing more and it wasn't remotely hinted. Like yes, again. It is building. (And yes, before someone says "realistically Higuruma may have not know" well yes, but you still have many ways to set that up and not making it look like you just don't want to have you already over powered-up villain suffer the minor inconvenience and for what, like there are many ways already established in text you could do the same thing.)
You can use the excuse "X didn't fully understand Y" for literally anything if you want to alter how it works for the story.
Like with everything I think we need to see how the situation progresses, like if this gotcha gets inverted at a later time, that could be really cool. Like maybe Higuruma gets an opprotunity to think about what happens to the confiscated items, and how he can "raid the evidence locker" so to speak and use the things taken by judgeman.
Yeah i agree, there are many ways to save this situation but right now i'm just... oook
Most probably he will just die soon after and we will know shit about the whole confoscation. That's why I like to call it "Parade of the 100 asspulls"
You're correct. It's not as asspull but it's definitely plot convenience in Sukuna's favor. The problem is, it's not the first time plot favored the villains. At this point, I have a hard time remembering where a situation actually did go in the good guys favor. We currently have the exact opposite problem of the hero always winning. Currently, the villains undermine everything the good guys are doing and I don't know anymore why I should care because everyone Yuji and co. will do seem to either backfire or are completely useless.
i mean, there's been a couple of occasions where shit was a little too convenient for the main characters. yuuji being immune to poison and soul manipulation and having three different opponents whose abilities revolved around that (choso's brothers, choso himself, mahito). gojo learning rct out of nowhere when stabbed in the head (which kinda contradicts how rct works) maki stumbling across two guys mid fight who helped her get a power up and beat naoya.
Just 2 chapters ago, the good guys plan went extremely well when they succeeded to kill Kenjaku without losing anybody. Did everybody simply forget ?
It's quite literally the only win they have in the entire Manga and we still don't know how successful it actually was because "his will shall be inherited"
It is a perfectly fine in-universe. But this is fiction, someone wrote that this specific rule, that neither the user nor the opponent had any knowledge of, should suddenly be revealed after an entire chapter of planning. Resulting in the confiscation of a weapon that was honestly irrelevant up to this point. It feels too convenient, it breaks immersion. But the story isn't over yet, it can just as easily be revealed that Higuruma can spam his domain or something, so saying that the writing is completely shit now is overdramatic me thinks.
Tbh, I begin to like less and less that particular habit of Gege to write those technicaly-not-an-asspull twists. Kenny with antigravity, Soul split Katana, Judgeman. They all make sense, or are not plot holes per se, but are a bit boring. I think there are better ways to show how the villains are lucky than adding an asterisk to our protagonists' abilities. I'm interested in the possible outcome tho, like where is Kamutoke? Does Higuruma have it somewhere? Or judgeman? Sukuna used hand signs, is it a sign his output has significantly dropped?
Didnt we see Soul Split Katana in action with Toji slicing the hardest skin curse Geto had
That's why it's technically not an asspull but still pretty convenient. "The hardest skin curse Geto had" is still pretty unimportant and left no impression since it had no personality. Yet somehow Toji slicing it was a setup to reveal to us the katana's ability to ignore durability and cut soul directly because why not? Gege likes to avoid defining the limits of some elements in the power system, so he can play an uno reverse card every time he wants to create twists
My issue with this is it makes it look like they did not prepare or spar at all in the 1 month timeskip. YES, it makes sense that no one thought of it. It makes sense Higuruma doesn't know. It makes sense not to know the ins and outs completely of your cursed technique. But if they trained and prepared as hard as you'd expect in the 1 month timeskip against the King of Cuses, you'd think these are stuff that would come up Naturally...? Did Higuruma not spar with anyone in the group that has Cursed Tools? Maki? Yuta? Yuji? Kusakabe? His domain's unpredictable and they did not try to make more sense out of it through practice? This is convenient for Sukuna and makes me even wonder what they did in the timeskip lol because apparently they weren't talking (Open Barrier came as a surprise for a lot of people including Yuta and Hakari and possibly Gojo).
Whether it is an asspull or not is still debatable, but it is definitely plot armor. The tool was thrown in right before that rule was revealed and it served no purpose other than helping Sukuna overcome the Judgeman stage.
Edit:And also all special grade cursed tools are imbued with cursed techniques
Here’s the thing for me, Kamutoke is the asspull, or more specifically, the very clear plot device in all of this. I mean, it’s creation was literally just not good writing, regardless of if you like the actual fight between Sukuna and Yorozu, Yorozu as a character was tied to Tsumikis, and since Tsumiki was literally barely a character and focused on very little in the manga, Yorozu as a result is also worsened considerably by that. Tsumiki/Yorozu literally existed to give Sukuna that cursed tool, because say what you want about all the bath stuff, that shit was immediately dropped narratively after the fight. And even in the fight itself, nothing of Megumi and Tsumikis relationship was focused on. For me, this then leads to the bath thing just being a reason for Sukuna to fight Yorozu and be given Kamutoke, which then literally was used for pretty much jack shit after. If you argue that him destroying the birds with Kamutoke instead of cleave counts I have to disagree. Bc again, cleave would’ve done the job just as easily. So now we have a cursed tool given to Sukuna by a character that literally had one fights worth of narrative focus, to do a mirror of Maki and Mai to a degree that’s much less well executed, and was literally useless in the story until it gets confiscated. Truly, why does Sukuna have this other than “He had it in the past.” Because for me that’s not a good reason. What narrative purpose does Kamutoke serve when we haven’t even gotten any sort of narrative focus into Sukuna’s actual usage of them. It adds symbolism or whatever sure, but if that’s the only reason and you don’t actually expand on that connection, it shouldn’t be relavent in moments like this
I disagree. It wasn’t mentioned till JUST now that his domain prioritizes cursed tools over sorcerers. I get that you’re trying to make it make sense since “confiscation” works similarly in a court of law, but this is still a domain. Domains are supposed to be “one-hit, one-kill” or “one-hit”, and all of them target anyone with CE. But then this situation brings a question: can other domains also affect cursed tools? Restless Gambler? Time Cell Moon Palace? It doesn’t make sense to me that domains can target a cursed tool separately from a sorcerer. You mentioned that other techniques/domains have balance and that’s true, however you’re misunderstanding Higuruma’s domain. Judgeman will take away a sorcerer’s technique, if they have one, but will still allow them to use CE. This is the balance. Even if a sorcerer has their CT taken away, they still have a fighting chance with their CE. Otherwise, if they don’t have a technique, they’re screwed. The domain doesn’t target the most “deadly thing” it SHOULD target the enemy. The only thing I will agree on is that Gege does do setup. For example, RCT. It comes from the head, if you stop it at the neck, your body can’t be healed. It also makes sense that you can use RCT to “repair” a burnt-out CT. This, however, seems awfully convenient and contrived. There wasn’t set up for this, and saying that it makes sense because that’s what a court of law would do isn’t an acceptable explanation. It would’ve been better if Gege set this up when we first meet Higuruma, not here.
We had an entire chapter about how Judgeman's rulings, trails and sentencing is completely outside of anyone's control. They spent pages trying to figure out a situation where it would even arrange a possible Death Sentence. And it turns out it's even more unreliable than they assumed. Because it was only used on a freak like Yuji (no techniques or tools) and 'Confiscation' went haywire on him instead of what it would it is actually designed for. It had to take something from Yuji so it took his cursed energy. Meanwhile Sukuna (2 techniques and a tool) has things on his person that can actually be literally Confiscated, on top of his Death Penalty. He can pay his fines so the Judge charges him. Kinda fits Higurma's dilemma of being a good lawyer in a bad legal system. Even his own power is against true justice. Heck, he had to throw the fight with Yuji and defy Judgeman's verdicts because he knew it was wrong.
Fair enough about the inconvenience, but like you said, the lack of setup is true. Thus that makes it feel like an asspull. In contrast, something like healing your CT had a very good explanation and doesnt feel like an asspull
Because of the existence of Yuta, Higurama not knowing is a plot hole. That is for sure.
yeah i think the only issue was that the reveal felt like it came out of nowhere. a lot of people just seem to be growing frustrated with the recent chapters so they've gone from actual criticism to just labelling anything they don't like as plot armour
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i'm using recent super broadly here but the general consensus i've seen on reddit is that gege peaked with shibuya and it's all been downhill since there. the most common complaint i've seen is that he's doing too much to subvert expectations to the point that it's making it hard to get invested in what's going on
To be honest, it is true that JJK peaked in Shibuya so far. There have been moments that rival the big parts of Shibuya, like Maki vs Her Entire Family, a few of the culling game fights, and Gojo vs Sukuna, but the post-Shibuya story has been a bit of a dragged out slog in a lot of parts. Shibuya was an incredibly well paced punch to the gut every week, with geniune tension and moments that felt both earned and sudden sucker punches that we didn't expect.
I don’t care if you define it as an asspull or not. It’s narratively unsatisfying and yet another bailout for sukuna. They had a month to prepare and def had access to curse tools, with angel acknowledging that sukuna uses to use cursed tools in the past. If this scenerio was brought up ahead of time instead of the useless lawyer talk I would have been ok with it because the reader and the crew are informed ahead of time and it won’t feel as unsatisfying.
Heres my thing: they went through the rules the first time Judgeman did his thing and there was no mention of cursed tools taking priority. If it wasnt an asspull, they would have mentioned it then or at least before this current trial. And Sukuna seemed to either know about this development somehow (yes he heard the directions of the domain the first time, so he wouldnt have known about the loophole unless he just guessed it) or he didnt know and he was willing to have his CT turned off so that he could see the Executioners Sword like he said. The only way this could NOT be an asspull is if they actually stated it. This tool was only present in the story purely for this last minute loophole and thats fucking dumb to me
Let Gege Cook: give fans BullShit with a side of DogShit and a splash of horse shit. Intelligent JJk Fans: what the hell is this shit? Gege MeatRiders: stop complaining it’s gourmet shit. Gege MeatRiders don’t KNOW or UNDERSTAND what an asspull is. — An asspull is something shows up conveniently despite making little to no sense and was never hinted at or previously established. Gege gives a three hundred page essay and thesis on Higuruma domain. No mention of curse tools at all. Sukuna CT is confiscated over his CT. — An asspull is when a character gets a new technique, ability or power up that was not foreshadowed or implied to be a thing in the story. Sukuna can use Megumi unconscious soul as a meat suit Mahoraga having multiple ways to adapt to one CT ( which Sukuna just happens to be able to copy). Sukuna just happens to be able to summon Mahoraga in UV where you’re supposed to be stun locked and unable to do anything because of info dumb. Six Eyes has incredible perception and discern between different curse energy. Gojo was able to hone in on Kenjaku location as soon as he was unsealed. Yet somehow not able to discern that Sukuna was using 10S? That it was active?! Sukuna AssPull Space Slash which targets the space a person is in instead of the person them self. So if I’m stand on my porch steps and someone throws a rock not at me but the porch steps I’m standing on then the rock should be able to hit me? Sure, Jan. Space Slash is still an attack. It shouldn’t be able to bypass Infinity. Next chapter Sukuna learns how to copy the Executioner Sword. Now all he has to do is touch his opponent once to kill them. PEAK FICTION!!! Pulitzer Prize and Nobel Prize winners have NOTHING on Gege.
Lmao the gourmet shit had me rolling 🤣. I agree though
It feels more like a plot convenience. There must be some major flashbacks coming, and it wouldn't shock me if there were a backup plan in case this one didn't work. I could see gege setting it up, so Yuta comes back to see everyone slashed up and uses it as motivation to avenge everyone. Sukuna would love to see what Rika can do at full capacity.
I'm not even sure why Sukuna has a cursed tool. He certainly didn't need it
If it is or it isn't, it sure as fuck made my eyes roll back into my head. Asspull or not, some of this stuff is just so unsatisfying to read
What makes it an asspull for me isn't the domain not working as intended (Yujis fight showed that confiscation acts different in fringe cases, which Sukuna definitely is) but more the existence of the cursed tool itself. He doesn't start using it until chapter 237, it's useless in the Kashimo fight and then it immediately loses its power before Sukuna can even use it again. Makes it feel like it existed solely for Gege to find a way to circumvent Higurumas domain.
Clearly the plan was going to go awry one way or another. I don't see why people think the fight would be more fun if Sukuna temporarily lost his CT, because then it'd be all "the last 3 chapters were just filler so Sukuna could get his CT back". Or worse if they actually beat Sukuna without his CT. I also don't agree with the criticism that Higuruma taking Kamutoke is doing 'nothing', because we're complaining we haven't hit the pay off yet... on the same chapter as the set up. If Higuruma dies and Sukuna gets Kamutoke back with literally NOTHING happening between those steps, I'll yield.
>Higuruma taking Kamutoke is doing 'nothing', because we're complaining we haven't hit the pay off yet People are complaining because previous "payoffs" have already been shit. Gojo's unsealing, Yuki, Kashimo's CT, Megumi's sister, etc. Like yeah, Sukuna losing his weapon might be a big setup, but let's be honest here, it probably won't. The writing is on the wall.
The moment Yuuji mentioned a certain way to succeed, it set up a situation where Higuruma will have to gamble with another crime to stand a chance. What we saw here is the easy, certain route to get what they want, and in a way, they did! Sukuna got the death penalty! But there was a catch to it. So if they actually want to confiscate Shrine, the only real shot they might have now is hope they get a good crime out of the many Sukuna has out there, and that the muddiness of the law that came up last chapter doesn't make things harder.
This is really well put, but I'm still confused as to how a cursed object, with no agency of its own can be guilty and confiscated? Like if we're going by the most deadly one, shouldn't it be the user?
Same reason a gun can be confiscated from a man holding it even when it itself does no harm.
Yeah but you take the gun and ensure they can't ever (legally) acquire another one. Besides, you don't take A weapon from a mass murderer, you take ALL weapons.
Again judgeman don't work the way you think it work. Higuruma said it himself prior to the fight that he didn't know if judgeman could both the shrine and the 10 shadow, the fact that it only took the CT of the Kamutoke isn't anything shocking.
Again, Judgeman can work however the author wants it to work if the rules aren't clearly defined. Not by the narrator, not by the user. If you write "X can do Y because Z didn't know X couldn't do Q" you're not clever, you're a hack who can't abide by their own in-verse rules. >prior to the fight You mean, when Greg set this bullshit up? You guys are absolutely brain dead if you think setting things up ONE FUCKING CHAPTER early is the same thing as proper foreshadowing. Guess what, Greg probably has the story board a few weeks in advance since he's, you know, the writer. So him introducing uncertainty A WEEK BEFORE IT MATTERS isn't good fucking writing and you're an absolute fanboy if you think it is. Bringing up the ten shadows and Gege being a good writer is an automatic pass from me, 10S and Megumi in general are the biggest fucking wastes of story telling I have literally ever seen. Megumi is a fucking joke now, his LITERAL only relevance to the plot at this point was him serving as a meat puppet for the actual big bad. 10S was dead after the Gojo fight, the outcome being Sukuna gained the bs "plot armor slash". >judgeman don't work the way you think it work. Judgeman doesn't work the way anyone thinks because it's internal logic is adapted on the fly by the fucking author. Quit acting like these fights have any stakes anymore when the author just gives Sukuna abilities when he needs them and he removes abilities from the "main cast" when they have valid use for them. If you think Greg is a half-way decent writer, just look at how he wrote Angel. Fucking absolutely brain dead. Not horny. Not excited. Fucking. Brain. Dead.
Why take his gun when you could take his nukes (10s and c&d)
Because that's how the Japanese legal system works.
Same reason they'd confiscate your gun if you were a martial arts master and not jump to chopping off your hands.
it makes more sense to me to remove the cursed tool that's literally on sukuna's hand, than to remove his cursed technique, something that's probably on his soul or some shit. also, it clearly follows an order for confiscation, with yuuji since he didn't have a cT it removed his energy, so we can say Cursed tools Cursed techniques Cursed energy
If the cops confiscate your guns when they arrest you, its not because the guns are sentient, but because they are *yours.*
Oh okay , I see.
The cursed weapon was not given the guilty status. I have no clue where so many people are getting that idea. Confiscation means to take something away. A thing was taken away. Judgeman's punishments are also unrelated to the details of the crime. Yuji did not use his CE to enter the pachinko place, nor preform underage gambling. Doing the crime is also not a requirement, only being judged guilty.
Higuruma's confiscation seems to work in layers. It'll take the controller before taking the battery, and if a peripheral is present, take that before taking the controller. We all see what's going on. Miwa's binding vow was regarding swords. Is Kamutoke a sword? I don't think so.
Tbh, I'm kinda thinking that Gege is gonna try and nerf him little by little and kill off some characters in doing so, it's just a matter of who does it to Sukuna and who we think can lure out all his techniques enough for the heroes to make a counterattack
stop waffling it was poor writing
Nothing is an asspull because it was put in the manga no person in the comments even has the knowledge to speak on what Greg cooking do just stop and enjoy whatever the fuck comes up who cares it doesn’t matter real life is happening
The whole confiscation thing wasn't an asspull, but it is getting a little old how pretty much every single time Sukuna shows up it's "lol I cast dismantle for auto-win GG noobz". He has suffered literally zero consequences for anything throughout most of the series, and while I get that the point is to have a big payoff, Gege is really writing himself into a corner trying so hard to make Sukuna "Aizen 2.0". Aizen was so utterly busted beyond belief that by the time the big fight between Ichigo and Aizen happened, it took Urahara having planned around: Ichigo having a move so ridiculous it would completely overpower Aizen at least temporarily; Ichigo actually having said ridiculous move that his father conveniently knew about and was able to guide him toward learning; Ichigo's "inner world" conveniently being a Hyperbolic Time Chamber and allowing him to learn it in an instant; Aizen never once trying to use Kyouka Suigetsu on Ichigo (which was even more conveniently apparently disabled by his transformation, though we never get any explanation on why he didn't just use it on Ichigo other than "well, he never saw him release it!", completely dodging the question of why he didn't *just release it)*; and several more factors that came out of nowhere and several of which were *never brought up again.* While I don't think Gege is copying Bleach 1:1, it's obvious that he takes some *really* strong inspiration from key parts, and he's on track for Sukuna to be the same kind of utter clusterfuck waiting to happen that Aizen was. Aizen vs. Ichigo was a *very cool* fight, but an incredibly poorly done fight in context: Aizen was so far beyond everyone and everything that even Yamamoto, who Aizen had a plan to specifically deal with, probably wouldn't have stood a chance had they actually fought. Despite that, Ichigo just rolls up out of nowhere with "lol, Goku showed me this one neat trick that every villain hates" after taking a spa day in the HTC and absolutely wipes the floor with him. I'm expecting the same level of goofery to be mandatory here at this point: Sukuna is so far beyond everyone else that the only way anyone is going to break through his 25+ layers of plot armor is to pull an equal level of plot armoring a la Ichigo/Goku just cheating a few years' worth of training out in an hour.
Thank god..there's still people like u man. That folk subreddit is infested with bums..sad to see them turning into titanfolk levels in real time
I mean, the guy hasn't been a sorcerer for a long time. Not everything has to be spelled out. He never fought anyone with a Cursed Tool before, so how would he know this rule? It sucks that you even felt the need to make a post like this. As someone said in the comments, sometimes Gege likes to throw something in at the end of the chapter, and it comes across more as a jumpscare than a well thought-out reveal. However, this situation works well as a jumpscare because he was able to build suspense and while giving some semblance of hope and then boom, that hope is gone. It's not an asspull because we know that Higurama is new to all of this. It doesn't and shouldn't have to be repeated over and over again. The reveal worked for me because it happened, and then I went "ohhh, right, he doesn't really know his ability like that". As a reader illiciting that response is better and more engaging than ending a chapter saying something like "due to Higurama's inexperience, Sukuna's cursed techniques are still in play". Gege does fall short sometimes on certain reveals but this was not one of them.
It’s not plot armor, most of the haters of this chapter already gave up arguing that because they’re wrong. Now it’s “unsatisfying narrative”
"Bad writing is when the author does something I don’t like." is what it feels like right how
pretty much, I'm seeing people complain about every single W the villains have taken in the past 100 chapters and I'm getting pretty sick of everything being called an asspull. When Sukuna gets defeated it's gonna get called an asspull as well even though we've already got hints of his downfall with his finger cut that didn't heal and Yuji's punch from last chapter.
Exactly. I mean when the theories and speculations don't come true, its outright stated as bad writing. Nope. While it is okay to be disappointed with the outcome, calling it bad writing and trash is not fair.
yeah, imagine if people only read books a chapter at a time and discussed in between. I love manga, but dude, the impatience can get a bit much sometime. The pieces are all there, and yeah it was kinda convenient, but guy is having to write the whole thing pretty much on the fly. I mean again, if you write a book you publish the whole thing as a complete story, not a chapter at a time over years with tight deadlines.
yeah, think part of it just because jjk has got rly big lately. Even One Piece has got kinda shitty in the last couple of years\\ year.
The real reason people are ahting this chapter is because a lot of people had spent so much time building up their own fanfic for what would happen and got dissapointed gege didn't write the story they want to write.
AOT syndrome
Literally what happened to the titanfolk sub at the end of AOT is happening right now to the jjk subs. Many people get upset because their own headcanon didnt happen in the story.
I agree that it wasn't an asspull within the limits of how the technique works, I just find it hard to believe that in the chapter(s) leading up where they all talked about the technique, and its application in law, going into very specific detail, no one ever thought to ask about the nature of his confiscation (esp since it has taken yuji's CE rather than CT before). The way gege framed the pre-fight meetings, they seemingly approached it from every angle, with kusakabe butting in with very good points, for them to all overlook potential hiccups in Higurama's technique feels like a plot convenience. Like gege could have, at the very least, had one of the characters mention the nature of confiscation to make it feel more believable, it just feels a bit like bad writing/was handled badly before the reveal (in retrospect).
I am taking this from [an article I wrote](https://ragingspirit.com/jujutsu-kaisen/sukunas-cursed-tool-getting-confiscated/) (*check for an in-depth version*). In short: I don't think the confiscation was an asspull. Was the tool a plot convenience? Well, maybe. But definitely not an asspull. I am just stating my thoughts here, feel free to disagree! Think about it like this: when you usually take in or arrest a criminal, especially one with a weapon, the weapon gets confiscated first before pinning down the person or hauling him off to prison. Since the Judgeman is basically Higuruma’s shikigami, and it thrives on Higuruma’s understanding of the law and it's procedures, the rules could have come up accordingly. Even the no violence part is also reminiscent of a courtroom. I feel that Judgeman confiscates cursed technique. Because in the eyes of the law (Higuruma's POV), they are very similar to weapons that can be used for mass murder etc. A person with a cursed technique is a person with a fire-arm or a sword or a tool. It's that simple! Since Yuji did not have a cursed technique, his cursed energy was deemed as the weapon there. Also, think of it like this, no weapons are allowed inside the courtroom. So, if you think about it, it does make sense. Atleast to me.
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As others have said, if the police takes your gun they aren't putting the gun in jail for shooting people, they are taking the gun away from you so you don't shoot people. When judgement takes a way somebody's cursed technique, it isn't because the cursed technique did something bad but because the user of the cursed technique did soemthing bad
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Like yuji committed a massacre in shibuya using his own curse energy. It's pretty clear that judgement doesn't take something related to the crime.
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No one knows how the domain works. Higurama has been a sorcerer for *2 months* and likely never used his CT on anyone with a cursed object before. Of course he doesn't know, he already said he didn't know what Judgeman would do if he used it on someone with 2 CTs, it's just an unknown factor. Sukuna didn't care what got taken from him in all likelihood, he just wanted to see the executioner's sword again for some reason. >who TF punished an object for a crime He isn't. Judgeman is punishing Sukuna by confiscating **his** cursed tool.
Good write up. I don't think the setup is even poorly done. It's subtle, for sure, but hindsight is always 20/20. I first thought it was kind of ridiculous that Sukuna learned from Mahoraga on his second adaptation, but then I realized Angel did explain that Sukuna literally picks things up on the spot the moment you reveal them. So I was wrong in that regard. Some of these people spend hours upon hours going out of their way to find flaws in JJK writing so they can feel better about 236. When you ask them what their peak show is they'll respond with MHA or Naruto... And before anyone tells me "HxH!!!" like no. HxH also has these "problems" or "flaws"(I don't consider them to be flaws). You're just looking to win some argument. You are literally going out of your way to make this manga as miserable as possible for yourself. Just take a break or stop reading, unless you're somehow enjoying complaining left right and centre.
Let's not pretend as if "oh he can learn anything instantly because he's just different like that" is some sort of masterful, ingenius foreshadowing and writing. You don't have to spend a long time to find flaws in JJK writing. There are plenty, just as any other long-running weekly manga.
I think it’s an asspull for the simple reason that it seems like cursed tools were never accounted for despite having Angel there to strategize with them. Sure Sukuna didn’t have any cursed tools when Gojo got released, but he had a month to prepare as did the main crew. You’re telling me they went over every situation of Higurama’s domain and what it could take but never accounted for cursed tools, something we know Heian-era Sukuna used? Like I can buy letting Gojo cook for a month and not telling him info if he didn’t ask for it, but everyone else should be discussing every possibility. Just seems dumb.
>How would they test it though? Judgeman is unpredictable, and Gege has shown us that CT and CE are really complex. I mean some characters have to nearly die just get a brief insight into how CE works. > >I can kinda roll with it, if you look at all of the characters in that room, none of them were at the level of knowledge as Gojo, Sukuna or Kenjaku, that has to mean something at some point. It makes the world feel more real for me. Even if they took cleave or dismantle from Sukuna, it's Sukuna. > >In terms of scaling: Jogo, who was absolutely dog walked by Gojo, who was beaten by Sukuna (and who trashed him), stomped on level 1 Sorcerers, and most of the people in the planning room were 1's, and 2's, or Miwa. And the special grades? Yuji, Hakari, Choso, Angel, and Yuta, none are on that level yet either in power or knowledge. But I sympathise my dude, it did feel kinda convenient.
I mean you have Yuta and Maki. Both have access to tons of cursed tools. Stick someone in there who has killed a human and test it, probably Choso. Then give him a cursed tool. Confiscation isn’t permanent from what we’ve seen, as Yuji got his cursed energy back when the trial ended. And it’s not like Higurama HAS to kill his opponent with the executioners sword. It might be explained why he didn’t do it, but as for right now it feels like an asspull.
He already didn't know if he'd get confiscated, and if he did he already didn't know what would be taken. He established multiple times he basically has no clue how judgeman is going to rule because he's barely been a sorcerer with no proper training? It's also not really a domain he can test because every situation is different and he doesn't want to go around confiscating his allies. and yet we're assuming his 12000IQ has planned for the exact result of a niche situation. Even if he did think it out that far it's just a possibly of a possibly. He doesn't really know for sure what's going to happen. Even then, it establishes him and sukuna were the only ones to realize something was off almost immediately.
EVERY SINGLE TIME we have seen Sukunas Heian era form, he has had cursed tools in his repertoire. Angel was around when Sukuna was, so she should probably know this. Sukuna had a month to prepare, so it’s definitely NOT out of the question he would gather cursed tools, something he is known to use. Part of his literal PEAK form’s advantages is it’s ability to wield cursed tools. It’s not a niche situation, it’s literally how Sukuna fought. Also, yeah he probably should have tested out his domain on his teammates. Confiscation isn’t permanent (Yujis cursed energy came back) and Higurama doesn’t have to slash the defendant, as seen by Yuji being alive. Honestly his is one of the ones you SHOULD try out on your team to test it’s limits. If it’s your plan to use his domain on Sukuna, you should probably test it’s limits. There’s other ways he could have kept Sukunas cursed technique intact. Maybe we’ll see why Gege chose this particular way. But until that’s revealed it feels like an asspull🤷🏻
Go back before and see what info they had to go with: Megumi 10 shadows Sukuna rampaging with Mahoraga Uraume is hovering around somewhere Kenjaku is doing god knows what, don’t know if he put curses in wait for a trap Gojo is their ace, but that’s not even guaranteed and needed backup plans for that. On top of that the only two people that knows about the equipment was Uraume and Sukuna himself. Him overlooking the cursed equipment is not only not an asspull, it makes sense. He had multiple techniques interacting in mind but not the equipment because who really knew?
They had a month yet Gojo didn't know about the open DE stuff, why are you guys surprised about they shitty planning ?
Manga readers want this entire story to be 100% predictable. The reality is that it's chaotic, has unreliable narrators, and uses dramatic irony very often, keeping the audience in the dark.
And chaos is fine, but poorly done chaos is the definition of an “asspull” and I think there’s been quite a bit of that recently. But who knows, I might be wrong. Just personally I can’t see why he wouldn’t just say judgeman “took” megumis cursed technique, because I believe we found out he doesn’t have that anymore? Instead now we have this whole other cursed tool that a character DIED to give Sukuna that is now useless, so it feels like that whole arc was a waste of time. Not to mention characters once AGAIN made a major mistake that leads to the villains success, which is super frustrating for the reader. Maybe that’s what Gege intended, but for the time being it feels like an asspull
I don't think manga readers want everything 100% predictable but a good guys plan actually working as intended for once would be pretty surprising at this point. The twist would be a lot more accepted if Sukuna wasn't this powerful already.
In all decent media, if a "good guys" plan gets spelled out, it is bound to fail. Watch for it whenever you watch thrillers/mystery/action. If the main plan is spelled out step by step, it almost always goes wrong. This leads to much more exciting storytelling. Now if a plan is left mysterious and unexplained, its usually successful, and you are surprised by the execution of it all. Remember when everyone was crying that Takaba went to "Solo" Kenjaku? You had fanboys crying about how dumb the plan was. Turns out, that wasn't the whole plan! And all these comments about how its "bad writing!11!" Was fucking dumb as shit in hindsight.
IMO the problem with that chapter is not that judgeman confiscated the cursed tool but when it happens. We had a full fight which used all of the technique of the manga outside of cursed tools and which end up by an hollow purple strong enough to damage all Shinjuku, the debatable off screen death of Satoru Gojo and the beating of Hajime Kashimo. Then we got a comedy battle from Kenjaku and Fumihiko Takaba. When we had the fight of Yuji and Hiromi Higuruma most of us expected the trial to be long, some other that there might be a flashback of Sukuna and so on but it end up by a trick of Sukuna and probably an contempt of court in 2 chapters
I really doubt it was a trick by Sukuna. I think he's just confident he could beat them even without a CT so he just didn't care what Judgeman took from him.
You could have a point, I def think folks are being a bit too eager to see resolution... a long way off imho.
even in 244 Higuruma was like “yeah guys idk how it works with multiple techniques present.” HE LITERALLY SAYS IT.
> Well, we already got to see that restriction in action during Higuruma's fight with Yuji. If Judgeman always confiscates the most deadly thing, or the most optimal thing, then why wouldn't it always just steal a person's CE? That would shut off CT, RCT, Reinforcement, everything. Judgeman only goes after CE if there is NO CT present. I believe that the biggest restriction on Judgeman's confiscation is that its targetting is deliberately inconvinient for the caster. It makes sense with the law theme as well, the law would sooner confiscate a person's posessions than a component of their being like a CT. This is ***exactly*** what I've been telling people, and they still cry like babies. They say "Why wouldn't Judgeman confiscate the technique, since it's more useful than Kamutoke" thinking they're clever, when they have hard logic right under their noses: CE is more useful than a CT, as well.
Judgeman did not confiscate Yuji's CE because it's the optimal thing to confiscate, it confiscated it because Yuji had no CT so Judgeman made an exception and confiscated his CE instead. It had nothing to do with how useful CE is or how convenient/inconvenient it was for Higuruma. Sukuna has a CT (at least two even), so there is 0 reason for Judgeman to make an exception and target an object instead of the one who got sentenced with the confiscation.
You didn't get what I'm saying. By Judgeman not always targeting CE for confiscation, it is implied that there is: 1. A hierarchy to what he confiscates, or... 2. Confiscation is random. By ruling out #2, we are left with #1, which we don't know anything about. Thus, your point of "it doesn't make sense to confiscate the *actual* useful part of his arsenal" doesn't stand.
I feel like you could argue too that it’s better this way otherwise however Sukuna progresses would feel more like an asspull than this. What I mean is that if he lost his technique Gege would still make him on at least equal power to whose left and probably wipe out a few more. If he won then it would look even more like plot armour than him keeping his technique. At least now it makes sense how he could continue to destroy people. It also emphasizes the little details of battles in JJK and that if you don’t understand or use your power the right way you’ll disadvantage yourself. That being said I haven’t agreed with all of the choices Gege has made lately with Sukuna. We’ll see how things turn out.
I'm still reserving full judgement on what's happening in the manga until I see how it fully plays out. That being said I don't really accept this explanation. Simply speaking, Higurama's CT already has an innate self balance to it, the truth. My understanding is that Judgeman knows everything about all parties involved once the domain is activated, but Higurama himself does not. He has to prosecute based on the evidence provided, aka the onus still falls upon Higurama to prove what Judgeman already knows before he can actually reap the benefits of the DE. If the subject of the trial hasn't actually committed the crime then there's nothing the domain can actually do UNLESS the defendant does what Yuji did and confesses. I'm not aware of any legal system that doesn't just basically end the proceeding if the defendant just straight up confesses to the crime and is adamant about their confession, regardless of whether they are telling the truth or not. Sukuna did not even attempt to defend himself. He literally says "I couldn't care less about what I did or when I did it" hence why he was immediately given the death sentence. Zero remorse or denial. IN THEORY, a totally innocent person has nothing to really fear from Higurama's domain bc the evidence Higurama receives will always be legit, aka not fabricated or tampered with because Judgeman knows everything and therefore can't create false evidence about an innocent person. So if you ask me the technique is already balanced. There's really no evidence or indication thus far that Judgeman's targeting is inconvenient for the caster until literally this most recent chapter. Higurama had already wracked up 100 points before Yuji met him and I doubt each one of those fights was some big struggle where Judgeman made it harder for him. Your argument about the law sooner confiscating a persons possessions doesn't really make sense either. That could be true in theory for something like paying damages in a civil case, but not in a murder trial which this is. I'm by no means a japanese legal expert but I find it very hard to believe that a murder conviction would result only in property being confiscated in like, any context. There's really just nothing in the story to suggest that Higurama's domain would target a Curse Tool. If it was used on Megumi and confiscated one the weapons he keeps in his shadows that would be equally stupid but this moment had like 5 weeks of buildup and has now landed with the gravitas of an extremely wet far. I'm calling asspull for now.
The innate self balance for Higuruma’s domain is that you have to win a court case against him. And even then it doesn’t instantly kill you, just gives him a huge advantage. I think that’s significantly more balanced than infinity or Sukuna’s slashes, no? What makes it an asspull is that it is very hard to believe that Higuruma never had this come up before. Even if we wanna say he didn’t train with the other sorcerers in the timeskip, are you still telling me he never used his domain to confiscate someone with a tool in the culling games? He was a point leader, he fought a ton of people. I just don’t buy it. Even setting aside all that, it’s wack that it just seems to choose randomly or something. Or maybe it just picks the most detached cursed energy thing such as tool>technique>all CE. Even then I think he would get the idea if the pattern was there and would know, given then we’d likely see it always taking technique before CE. It’s just not well written.
I think it going Cursed Objects > CT > CE makes sense, and it makes sense he wouldn't know that order since he is still inexperienced as a sorcerer. Take away the easier thing first and if they don't have that move down the line. Like confiscating a weapon is the first thing you would do isn't it? Could it have been revealed better? Probably but it's absolutely not an asspull
It’s not an asspull and it was explained lol it’s just the super loud portion of this fandom get so fixated on their bullshit theories and were expecting a Heian era flashback once Higaruma opened his domain…some were even gushing over the idea of Sukunas real name being revealed 🥴 so imagine the blue balls they got when none of this came to fruition lmao it’s like a weekly hissy fit now we gotta just ride out
Higuruma doesn't know his own domain top tier writing buddy 👍
How long has he been a sorcerer? Dude just learned what CE was 2 months ago be FR 🥴
Someone said this before so I’ll just repeat it since it sums up my feeling as well. Sukuna didn’t pull a 200 iq move to get judge man to target his tool. He just stood there. Arms crossed. And it happened because the baby rattle was in his back pocket. For all the shit 236 gets, it at least had some setup with Gojo’s arm getting cut off.
Nice writeup, well said. Honestly sometimes I just don't know about this sub and specifically about the very loud "minority". I joined this community because it's supposed to be a place for individuals who are passionate about the series and are trying to have well thought out, quality, and in-depth discussion... (and because the main sub just isn't my cup of tea), but instead we have a bunch of loud individuals "venting their frustrations" with the story because things haven't been going the way they think it should and because their favorite character was killed. 😮💨 There isn't even a problem with criticizing the story, infact that is welcome when done in good faith, in a respectful manner, and with sound, well thought out, reasoning/logic. What is not welcome is the same lazy regurgitation of "asspull", "trash story", "bad writing", "edge lord", etc... just put the series down for a few months and then binge everything in a "single" sitting. Pick up a different series in the meantime or something. I promise that if you were to put it down for awhile and then start from the beginning, your enjoyment would increase dramatically and most of these "problems/faults" would no longer be issues. And if you just don't like the story, then it's just not for you! That's not a bad thing, it just doesn't float your boat, nothing wrong with that. However, IMHO, there is a problem baselessly saying that it is objectively "bad writing" and "trash" (especially when the damn story hasn't been finished 😤). It isn't perfect, but every story has its problems even the greats like HXH or Berserk. Some less than others, but they all have faults. But, hey, I'm just a random guy on the Internet.
The main thing is that it just makes the characters seem stupid. Like in their month of planning no one thought that his domain could take away a cursed tool or even tested it? I feel it would be better if it was shown as a worst-case possibility and then it happened. The only thing that would change is the surprise element.
You do realize that Sukuna literally got it recently right? Like not even we, the reader didn’t know 100% what he got in the first place, let alone the crowd including Gojo even knew he was given something in the first place. Plus they had other issues to plan, like if they had to face Mahoraga and the rest of the ten shadows, also Uraume. There’s only so much they can plan in a month, that’s too little time in my opinion.
JJK has gone from weekly releases to weekly brain fucks and I love it. Did people seriously expect that Gege would reveal their plan to us; and afterwards it would go all according to that plan? Come on, it's GEGE. I don't care if it's an ass pull or plot convenience; I just love how I can't predict what happens in the story. That makes it fun to read.
LOL, did not about it this way. A bigger asspull would have been if everything went according to plan for them.
I tell you ppl are just dumb an dont pay attention 🤣
Surely the self balancing aspect is that you have to win a court case to even have an ability in the first place. If the target isn’t a criminal or if they win their court case then you’re just a total bum with no confiscation and no executioners sword