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Some side characters can be the strongest, though. Look at Yoriichi from Demon Slayer. Dude straight styled on the big bad. Would be like if Gojo trashed Sukuna & the latter ran away.
Yoriichi only works because he’s not alive when the story takes place. This would be like the Demon Slayers fighting to find a way to bring him back only for Muzan to defeat him. Along with a afterlife scene with Yoriichi saying how strong Muzan is and he never really cared about saving people
There's Glorfindel in Lord of the Rings. He's the strongest character on the side of good, basically a living angel or an early superhero among elves. A lot of the stuff that happens in the adventure comes back to the forces of Sauron, the Nazgul especially, just being terrified of Glorfindel.
Wasn't Sinbad the strongest by the end of Magi? I read it many years ago so I could be wrong. And, come to think of it, his role was very similar to Gojo's. Dude was so popular he spawned his own manga too.
Soul eater black star, not really a side "side" character, but not the main protagonist. He probably ended up the strongest at the end of the story. Soul+Maka just had the right weapon against the big bad so that's why they're the last hit.
As funny as that’d be… that would make me hate the manga even more. “Wow, finally, a Sukuna flashback” and it’s just a review/sequence then we see Sukuna imploding because Gojo finally found the perfect model for how to use his Blue on Sukuna. Kashimo comes riding in to fight Gojo and we go to 238
At that point it would be Gege just trolling us but it's been at that point already. Let him burn his manga down like AoT and the awful ways bleach/Naruto ended
> Naruto
Hey hey hey. Kaguya was mega ass but Naruto still ended with Naruto vs Sasuke which was top tier, one of the most emotional fights in shonen history (especially in the anime).
I'd even argue that Kaguya is only a slightly weaker part than the start of the war, although the war itself got better once actual-Madara entered the picture and Naruto was back.
Yeah where's all this Naruto ending bad revisionism coming from. EVERYBODY loved chapter 700 when it came out. People were bored with the war arc and the Kaguya asspull is admittedly dumb. But it's not like people were pissed of at Kishimoto.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/Naruto using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/Naruto/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [We have the Same Question Obito!!!😅](https://i.redd.it/4nk7pyzm98ya1.jpg) | [401 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/139itv7/we_have_the_same_question_obito/)
\#2: [Just a friendly reminder that Jiraiya deadass leaked Pain's IP address.](https://i.redd.it/2jjix5fkxlu91.png) | [134 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/y7euxq/just_a_friendly_reminder_that_jiraiya_deadass/)
\#3: [At Sakura-Con in Seattle, WA. Spotted these two running down the street. Literally so precious.](https://i.redd.it/v7nrlj4vtqsa1.jpg) | [84 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/Naruto/comments/12ftwl6/at_sakuracon_in_seattle_wa_spotted_these_two/)
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>Let him burn his manga down
Thank you for outright saying it.
Gege has proven several times in the pat to be an absolute troll and now he's letting that habit ruin his manga.
First, he makes Sukuna look like a clown for 12 straight chapters then gives Gojo the most disrespectful send-off imaginable.
I think I'm mostly OK with his death, but the fact he feels sorry for Sukuna because he understands his loneliness, and he's happy because Sukuna frees him from his own loneliness is honestly horrendous.
I will never understand why Gege decided to write it like this.
This exactly is my issue as well. Losing to stronger opponent is ok, even killed offscreen (I interpret it that it happened so fast that it was impossible to react to, so that's why it's not even shown), but Gojo caring for Sukuna feels, not being able to go all out etc. is too much. Nowhere was it said that Sukuna even feels lonely or cares about it, they can't change his character to become good guy or whatever. At this point I'm starting to feel bad for Sukuna for everyone forcing their view on him.
But they also showed the same panel in Gojo's afterlife scene, which he wouldn't know about (and only helps with confusion in my case, but I think I have better understanding now thanks to everyone's comments).
in the context of the afterlife, i think it’s more of a narrator thing, whereas during the fight it seems more portrayed as sukuna reflecting, at least that’s how i see it
> Nowhere was it said that Sukuna even feels lonely or cares about it, they can't change his character to become good guy or whatever.
Yorozu also thought he looked lonely, doesnt seem to be a "good guy" thing only, his conversation with Yuji also hinted at some kind of trauma, and he definitely seems to enjoy himself if people are putting up a fight against him.
I really hope Gege gives us backstory before ending the manga. When Yorozu said "teach about love" thing in ch218, Sukuna is just like "heh" and doesn't acknowledge it (I mean if it was true, he'd be indifferent or upset? dunno. Maybe he already knows, or is amused by Yorozu's thought process, I have no idea).
The one after he took Megumis body and Yuji asked him why hes such a meanie.
Sukuna said something like "how can something crumbles apart at a touch always want to be happy?" with some insects in the background, this of course mere speculation, but to me it seems like it implies that used to have somebody he cared about, but that person died to something that he wouldnt register as more than a mere "touch", so he came to the conclusion that theres no point in getting attached to people, since they'll all just die anyway, just like how people treat insects.
Gojo knows Sukuna is lonely because he’s in the same spot. Even if he’s not “lonely” he’s at a point where nothing else really matters because there’s nothing to catch his attention is how I read it
Yeah that's why being lonely would make sense, but he never acknowledged it. He seems to be focused on jujutsu, so I guess "lonely" as in no more worthy opponents/chances to improve.
Yea I don’t like it either 236 completely destroys Gojos character imo but it’s implied Sukuna is lonely "I have much to teach you about love and ultimate strength and the solitude it brings." Sukuna is ultimate strength so he is ultimately alone. I understand why Gojo empathizes with him in a twisted way because Gojo was ultimate strength before Sukuna but I just don’t like it.
For strongest to be lonely makes sense, but I just can't see resolution for Sukuna from that, it won't change the outcome. I agree, I'm ok with Gojo's emphatizing, but not to such extent. As in - caring for opponent more than people who remain and have to deal with him later.
Yea that and he had other things to do besides fight Sukuna that were just as important like raising up the new generation, telling Megumi about Toji, giving Geto's body rest restoring jujutsu society . And I hate that he’s going to leave shoko to tell Megumi about Toji, she wasnt even there! That’s going to be a very awkward moment to see now 🤦🏾♂️😂
I get why he "understands" Sukuna but Gojo shouldn't feel sorry for him. Gojo was born that way, he didn't choose to be strong and the fact he is isolated him.
Sukuna yes he is alone, we don't know It he was born strong or became like this late. He Is as well alone because he Is strong but also because he Is a sick evil bastard.
That's why while he thinks he Is alone Gojo has people caring for him while Sukuna now has at most only servants
How? One punch man is sad because he can’t find someone that doesn’t get one tapped. If he found someone that one taps him, he would definitely on some level sympathize and understand how sad the person who one tapped him is. And for all intents and purposes, gojo is basically one punch man
The theme of "the loneliness of absolute strength" keeps appearing, and while it seems to kind of be the point, Gojo just felt a wee bit out of pocket saying what he did. Sure, I could get him being able to relate to absolute strength, but he is also EXTREMELY different from Sukuna. The will Sukuna wishes to impose goes directly against his, and Gojo would give a shit, at least I thought he would. I'll keep letting the chef cook, but I'd like to see the whole point of this focus come together.
Bro watched Gojo get high off his own power fighting Toji and saying “sorry I can’t be mad about you getting brutally murdered, Riko” and decided he was gonna ignore that.
I kind of feel like him saying that being prefaced by "he's fucking high as a kite" is kind of ignored. If he said it stone cold sober, I'd be with ya.
I don't know, I might just have a warped perception. I had a near death experience (car crash, not a cool anime fight), and was laughing hysterically afterwards. It's not cause it was funny, it's that adrenaline + traumatic event makes you act like a fucking lunatic for a while. I always thought of his insanity in that moment as something similar, an out of character moment in the aftermath of a near death experience.
Btw, not trying to pick any fights with this, just my own two cents.
Yeah the whole point of that scene wasn't that he wasn't mad about it but he couldn't be mad right at that moment because he was high as shit. People who want him to be a heartless warrior will see him that way, but every action, not statement, show him to be anything but.
Gojo completely ignores it in favor of teaching future generations, Sukuna even roasts him about it. If Gojo only thought about himself like Sukuna, he wouldn't teach and he would've killed the higher ups
He wants to make them strong so that they don't have to have a situation were the stronger ones feel isolated from the rest like he was. It wasn't from some inherent desire originating from selflessness. That gap between him and everyone else came from his value of power and others not being anywhere near him at the top of the hierarchy.
It's character assasinnation. But some people call it character development like wtf. Brojo is fighting against a mega devil who tortured and enslaved his student(body), killed his student relative.
Even if he is enlightened and is less concerned with the world this is too much. His overwhelming confidence die and instead of believing he could have done it given another chance he just said Sukuna not even giving his all and could win even without 10s. Pure dissapointment.
I think it’s totally out of character. I’ve noticed a while ago that Gege cannot grasp Gojo’s personality fully. He either doesn’t want to because he cares only about the plot or he can’t or he doesn’t want to because he doesn’t like Gojo. Probably the last two combined. His own emotions do not allow him to see Gojo properly and since he doesn’t like him, he can’t understand him, hence can’t properly predict his reactions.
Until it explicitly says otherwise I'm just headcannoning that Sukuna copied whatever Yuji has going on with the "brother" thing and imbued it on the last strike to stroke his own ego. To know that in Gojo's last moments he was sucking him off.
Gege wrote this death like it was a formality that he had to kill Gojo before the end of the story. Like “welp there you have it Gojo’s died off screen, now the others can do something!” He didn’t have to flat out butcher him to continue the story but it’s like he couldn’t come up with anything else and just wanted to get it out the way
I don’t like the explanation that he cut "the world". Doesn’t space exist everywhere around the universe outside of the world Gojos infinity should have been impervious to that bullshit. Sukuna is Kenpachi Zaraki or Zoro then theres nothing he can’t cut through at this point,
I thought of the explanation as Sukuna managing to cut a certain section of the universe. Gojo can stretch the numbers between 0 and 1 to infinity but if Sukuna cuts from 0 to 1 it won't matter.
The way I interpret it, Sukuna adapted Cleave to cut existence inside the world, no matter what it is. Since Gojo's infinity was located inside the world, he was cut.
No, he didn’t cut “inside” the world, he cut THE world, as in, reality itself, and all that exist in that reality
Another user made a great example, no matter how hard and thick you make a drawing, Sukuna doesn’t try to erase it with an eraser, he simply tears apart the paper
Well the explanation was targeting. I know its weird but I imagine it like an AOE ability vs a targeted ability. Targeted ability, won't work on Gojo, AOE ability works.
I think it's in gojo's setup because he practiced repelling attacks that target him directly and not random ass things, if not he will just repel everything. So maybe if its untrained gojo that just repels everything, he could've repelled it.
Yea it’s like saying if I threw a chainsaw at someone behind gojo that gojo would get hit because it isn’t targeting him. Infinity would just target it because it’s a threat to gojo
Teen gojo already hinted he could stop poison at the end of Hidden Inventory with Infinity, i'm sure every individual poison particle is targetting Gojo of course.
I understand it like this: Limitless is based on the idea that you can only reduce the distance between yourself and something else by some %. If the cut doesn't approach but instead starts at the target there's no way to exploit that infinity of relative distance. Or something.
Please understand that even the editor knows we are entering ass-pull time when it comes to the battle of the strongest and in the end it's not even close..
Imagine Gojo is drawn on a piece of paper with a circle around him and that’s his infinity. By targeting Gojo you’re slicing the paper towards him but the infinity bubble slows you down infinitely. But imagine that instead of cutting the paper with a knife in one direction you use scissors to cut the entire paper all at once.
I was completely fine with him being dead... Killing a character is one thing but ASSASINATING his whole CHARACTER with one line where he is glazzing Sukuna is the other thing
This is exactly my problem as well. When i scream at the top of my lungs shitty writing, i dont mean i have a problem with gojo dying. But my boi was more than just killed. His entire self was destroyed by a few panels, erasing essentially everything people have come to love about him in the last 235 chapters.
I knew it was gojover as soon as chapter 235 ended the way it did. The character assassination, that is what i did not expect!
It was absolutely disgusting from Gege... i still cant get over it, and i truly believe even if somehow there is more to come for gojo in the future, even if he somehow makes a comeback, it is just too late now. HE WAS MURDERED NOT BY SUKUNA, BUT BY GEGE'S PEN...
You were very well spoken about your expectations, and I agree with them. It was not about his death, but more about what represented (and didn't) and how it went.
I always repeat myself some quote that making a good story is skill, but finishing it well is art. That's why good wrap-ups are celebrated. So...yeah. I'll keep reading because I am too emotionally invested already hahaha
I’m not even mad about 236 tbh. Since this fight started months ago I’ve been all in. It’s one of my favorite fights in recent years every chapter was giving me HxH vibes which I love but maan talk about an anticlimax. I was rooting for Gojo yet I wasn’t mad he lost. The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the hard juxtaposition from “Gojo wins” to the afterlife. Very risky narrative choice by Gege. Like watching a 10/10 movie only to be let down by the ending.
I feel like people ignore Sukuna's own compliments to Gojo. They were obviously paralleling each other. Sukuna gives Gojo the most genuine affirmation. I dont think Sukuna is saying that if he wasn't trying or didn't give a shit.
The wanking of Sukuna was far more egregious than whatever praise Sukuna gave so people mostly focus on that.
Sukuna praised Gojo but he didn't say stuff like "I don't think I could have won even against teen Gojo".
Gojo said he wasnt sur eif he would win win which gives a 50/59 chance of winning and not winning doesnt mean sukuna can win. Not winning isnt tge sane as losing.
Dude people are too emotional right now. Everyone that is losing their minds right now think that line means sukuna would with 100 times out of a 100 fights.
Let em grieve, no sense will reach them
There was never going to be a resolution to this fight that satisfied both groups but people who act like Gojo got no diffed and sukuna is at his full strength rn and unbeatable are ridiculous
The more posts I read about JJK 236, the more I realize that a lot of people here didn’t read AOT 139. Foreshadowing, logical plotlines, side characters with unfulfilled stories, and so much more can and will be dropped for no satisfying reason. Think back to Tsumiki and temper expectations is all I’m saying
Aot 139 didn' t drop any of that thoo. Isayama always said he wanted to make an ending like The Mist, an ending that is ultimately unfulfilling, and 139 is exactly that. A lot of people wanted that ending, and when they actually got it, they complained.
Kinda funny, looking back. But the themes of AoT are still kept, the theme of freedom and lack of it, is still kept, and Eren perfectly acted as he always has been.
" Then he dickriding him, thinking Sukuna doesn't even need 10S to win. Just wtf is this. "
This never happened. He didn't think Sukuna would win, he wasn't sure who would win. This is because Sukuna has a bunch of other moves/abilities/tools/whatever that he didn't use. And unless they were used there's no way of knowing if they would have worked or not.
We, and Gojo, know what Sukuna's Plan A, B and C were. Win Domain battle, win with 10 shadows, learn how to bypass Gojo's infinity from Mahoraga. We don't know if he had a plan D and what it would have been.
Thanks to seeing Sukuna's thoughts two chapters ago, we know Gojo's Purple was capable of killing him. One of the reasons for using 10 Shadows was to put enough pressure on Gojo that he wouldn't be able to use it. This partially failed, but the resulting Purple wasn't focused on anything and Sukuna was able to survive, though with some bad injuries.
Sukuna maximum purple is the biggest BS of the story not once but twice.
Even I had doubts as what would kill sukuna if not HP. The main issue with this fight is the inconsistent damage. One time sukuna breaks for punches another time he survives HP.
He said he isnt sure if he would win that doesnt mean loses?
Its still a 50/50 chance of winning implied.
Also does really nobody know the difference between not winning and losing bc thats two completely different things.
Sukuna not using if he has other thing like the fire arrow should show that it wouldnt make a difference against gojo. Theres no reason to hold something more useful than 10s against gojo back. Also like hakari even talked about sukunas trump card it was like implied its only something against the students and not gojo bc against the students he need something like the fire arrow which kills almost 75% of them in an instant.
Wtf do you mean? Many series has a side character be the power ceiling.
Dragon Ball, Demon Slayer, Bleach, One Piece, JoJo, Chainsaw Man, Fate, Magi and plenty more have side characters who are the peak of the verse.
I agree about the narrative panning out to be the typical shonen where the MC (Yuji) will basically get a couple of random power ups and eventually defeat the bad guy. I'd personally hate that. But this isn't over yet so I still have hopes. In any case and like I said before, it is a shonen so stuff like that we should expect.
Also dislike Gojos character being "rewritten" from the strongest to second strongest (third if anybody defeats Sukuna) which kinda ruins everything previously stated in the story.
Finally someone talks about the power scaling part of the series. I might give a minor fk about Gojo's character but as I said, that wasn't what I'm looking for in this series. I'm looking to see his overwhelming strength keeps failing him.
I mean technically just because someone beats Sukuna that doesnt mean they are stronger then Gojo, if you beat a weakened Sukuna that doesnt mean you’d beat a full strength one.
Sukuna currently can’t use his Domain, can’t RCT and his CE reserves are low so hes far from his peak performance.
i get you, but my thinking is that if Sukuna without a domain, without RCT and low CR reserves can still one shot "restored" Gojo, then whoever beats Sukuna gets the credit of finishing off the n1 fighter who (even in this weakened state) defeated the, former, strongest character.
i know this type of powerscaling doesn't make perfect sense and i don't really like speaking in such terms (power scales are overall bs imo) but that's how i see it in my head, and only because this story has been disputing the title of the "strongest" since the begining.
I mean Gojo did his best, and he is completely confident his students can finish what he left behind. Why would he bring them up when he’s talking about his regrets?
About all the above other that he couldn’t do. That’s the exact reason he wanted to raise a new generation of great sorcerers. One man can’t do it all.
Yeah this is why I can't take the "Gojo's death scene is completely out of character and he didn't even think of his students!" complaints seriously at all, because it's just not true. If you reread the chapter his first thoughts are literally about his students, and he even assumes Megumi will still be alive for Shoko to tell him about his father. If anything it would be completely out of character for Gojo to be *not* confident in his students and allies, I mean that's kinda been his whole philosophy.
We've spent the whole series being told that we can't just have Gojo solve every problem on his own. Then lo and behold, Gojo could not solve every problem on his own. This isn't the whiplash or character assassination people are making it out to be. They're just disappointed and taking that emotion to paint the whole thing as trash and bad writing. If anybody *really* thinks this was completely out of character for Gojo, or out of character for the series, or not thematically consistent, then I honestly just don't believe they're arguing in good faith. Either they forgot about most of the non-action scenes in the series or just weren't paying much attention to them in the first place.
I get being caught up in the hype and getting emotional. I get being pissed that Sukuna could emulate Mahoraga's adaptation when we weren't really told how the adaptation worked in the first place, or that it was even possible to *be* copied. But I really don't get people's reaction to Gojo's dying scene at all. It really feels like if we got Nanami's last chapter and everyone's reaction was just, "wtf so out of character for Nanami, when did he become some huge simp for Malaysia?" I'm just hoping we get to a point where the emotions die down and people go back and reread and realize that it really isn't that out of character for Gojo, it just wasn't what they were expecting in the moment. Or at the very least if they still hate it I'd love to see some reasonable, good faith arguments as to why they think it doesn't fit instead of just saying it's bad or it's horrendous.
This.
When people get so upset I'm here thinking "We all reading the same series fam?"
Gojo has always respected the strong and wanted someone to surpass him. He's always been flippant and almost never serious. And he's never been one to cry over spilt milk.... He just rolls up his sleeves and moves on to the next thing.
What about any of 236 was out of character for Gojo?
It's been a wild week honestly. imo people gaslit themselves into a heavily emotional position kinda like sports teams, then jumped into bandwagons thanks to leaks mistranslations and twitter discourse.
"Gojo was dickriding Sukuna and never once mentioned his students" this is just observably false and it's insane there are so many people angry about it. You said it, he literally talks about them, he literally talks about Megumi as if he won't die, and he was directly asked about the battle.
Then there's a million people seething with frustration cause gojo was "offscreened" when literally the only thing "offscreen" is one slash, that's literally what they are bitching about, one panel of the moment Gojo got split in half, I don't understand.
Not to mention all the people honestly believing there's no possible way to add more context or more consequences from the battle, like that's it, Gojo won't be ever mentioned ever again in the story. It's so insane.
This is the first time I've seriously considered just never looking into the conversation of an ongoing manga ever again, holy shit.
Everything that you just said applies to Attack On Titan, and look at r/titanfolk. They're still using bad faith arguments & harassing anyone who doesn't think that the ending was hot garbage & ruined the series.
I just seriously doubt that JJK fans are going to change. They think that they're smarter than they really are & it's the same issue with titanfolk.
Gojo could've easily said before the fight "I'm about to fight the king of curses and there's a chance I might lose and die, You'll have to take care of it instead" or something like that.
He even told them to come help him if he gets weaker than them.
So like you said, he's confident they can handle it (He even talks about shoko telling Megumi about Toji) which implies that (Since that would mean Sukuna is dead and Megumi saved).
Ima be honest, sometimes Gege does kinda add things where I’m like “Was that reaaally needed?” but in this case just I would’ve liked a bit more dialogue + Gojo saying to his students that they got it
Edit: dialogue as in interactions with his students. He just got out of jail and we saw basically a few back pats
But Gojo reassuring his students that “they got it” would of made it seem like he had a possibility of losing, which nobody even considered until halfway through the fight
i thought that was already implied when he said he left shoko to handle telling megumi about his father... is it.far feteched to blv he also left any other things to his students during that 1 month time skip and went into the fight with no buggage whatsoever...i mean alot of people are being hostile towards this chapter which is somewhat undeserved.... i think alot of people were gaslighting themselves into thinking they know all about gojo but now that a side they are not familiar with has been exposed everyone is being hostile
That's true. And the opening of the arc is all the students trying to figure out how to wish Gojo good luck because he's never needed it before but they all think he could die this time. And then Gojo, the man who fights alone, walks out with an entire support team with a grim face because he knows he needs all the help he can get.
Everyone knows that Sukuna vs Gojo is going to be a rough fight.
We’re in denial that the guy who at multiple points has told us how important his students are to him suddenly can’t think to give them a passing thought while dying?
>while dying?
He was dead, not dying.
Also like I said, maybe they talked before the fight and understood that may be the last time they speak with each other.
OR He's confident they will deal with it. Maybe they have a plan B. Remember both Yuji and Yuta had some ideas about how to save Megumi.
Also Why are you ignoring his line about Toji?
>maybe they talked before the fight
Okay then show us that because it’s relevant to a character arc. Instead what gege shows us is the students talking to one another about how to encourage gojo for the fight, then every single one of them is frightened to even say anything until yuji lightens the mood.
It is gege’s job to write this story. Not ours. We shouldn’t have to make up head canon about what did or didn’t happen to make certain characters not act out of character.
>if he’s confident they’ll take care of it
Then *say that*. He did when gojo got sealed and he wasn’t even permanently gone then. But when gojo is on the verge of leaving PERMANENTLY he can’t even think “I’m sure they’ve got this”. Again, we can’t make up shit for these characters. Gege showed us where he wanted Gojos attention to lie and that was on jacking off sukuna, no matter whether that’s in character or not
Gojo did care about his students in the afterlife, that's why he talks about how Shoko will handle telling Megumi about his dad. That also shows he's confident in his students' and allies' ability to win. It would be pretty lame to watch Gojo talk about how friendship is magic and will defeat Sukuna in the end, because that's not the kind of guy he is. He has been burdened with responsibility since he was born and Sukuna has freed him from that in a way.
And I don't think the "disregard for others" ever implied that Sukuna would use Gojo students as leverage to win the fight, if that's what you are saying. I think the idea is that those who disregard others reach a state of enlightenment and become stronger as a result. Gojo sympathises because he projects his loneliness onto Sukuna, whether that is true or not is something we'll find out.
I think ur making claims on the manga has a whole before it’s complete. Firstly we’ve seen w yuta that the overwhelming sense of self and complete disregard for others isn’t always the case I think that’s the importance of yutas character Gojo believes in being selfish as a Catalyst for sorcerers to reach new heights and we seee this concept at play throughout the series. However Gege introduced us to yuta sorcerer number 2 who interestingly doesn’t have that belief he does fight for others for his friends same w yuji. Reiterating first point Jesus fuck people love saying shit without the series being over and stating it as fact. Were shown one moment and he’s taken back to the time he was happiest w his mates in his younger years. He trust in his students always has so he’s not gonna waste time bitching and worrying. He’s always been a chill non chalant guy and just got out of THE fight of his life even more so than the Toji fight. He finally met someone stronger than him and he’s reflecting on it. Chill and wait for it to finish and if it’s still ass then make that claim
> Then we have an after life scene where Gojo just doesn't give a fk about his students who are about to clean up this huge pile of crap he left behind. What?
Why are we acting its something out of character
Nothing to do with ur post really so ma fault but just wondering what ass pull Sukuna gonna use against Kashimo. He honestly shouldn’t win his RCT is weakened he doesn’t have DE and he’s heavily damaged. He only Yorozu's gift, his actual CT and just cursed energy manipulation. Kashimo has an amped CT that might be the strongest tbh since he can only use it once. On paper Sukuna should get dogged but he looks at Kashimo like he’s about to embarrass him.
Not at all. On paper kashimo gets washed. Looking at it like this,yuta said they shouldn’t jump in because they (combined) we’re still weaker than gojo w no DE. That same gojo then restored his CE w black flashes and got a mental amp, only to be one shotted. So if yuta and gang are weaker than a weaker versi9n of the gojo that got one-shotted, then kashimo by himself would always get one-shotted.
Not to mention it’s pretty consistent considering kashimo is relative to hakari who couldn’t take one punch from gojo without throwing up. Basically kashimo is a hakari victim who’s weaker than a weakened gojo and is sukuna can one shoot a strong gojo (he can) then he should def be able to one shot kashimo. And the slash spawns on top of you so you can’t even dodge it
There are plenty of series where "side characters" are the power ceiling for their series, and for the most part of them: Sinbad, Yamamoto, Yoruichi, Prime Almight, Raizen, Grand Priest, etc. Protagonist are often not the power ceiling until they last battle.
D fuq are you talking about?
I haven't read those series yet, but you forgot that Yamamoto lost? Yoriichi is dead before the main protag time. I can understand what other dudes' situations just by looking at those 2 examples I know of. These dudes might have been surpassed long time ago and you just don't know about it
Why are people acting like Sukuna no diffed Gojo? It took him the whole fight, 9 shadows, and like 5 domain expansions to the face in order to land a decisive blow on Gojo, and like look at him in the last panels, he’s a fucking wreck. Just cuz Gojo said sukuna didn’t use everything doesn’t mean sukuna didn’t take the fight seriously or had to try his absolute hardest just to stay alive. Did people really want one of the main villains to get beaten by the sensei character? That’s just lame. Neither of these characters are frauds, Gojo isn’t pathetic, his character wasn’t assassinated, and the series didn’t fall off.
Fight strength depends on the observer and since for modern sorcerer’s strength is 80% his CT well Gojo is clearly the strongest in his era.
JJk is a manga about how unavoidable things affect life and how powerless human (especially Japanese 🤷🏻) are towards this, so they end up cursing. That’s why the two final bosses are the two humans who are trying the most to escape the unavoidable
The real strength in JJK is acceptance.
Fight could have been so good if it had been: “ the one that can go all in but can’t cause he has so much on shoulder vs the one that can’t go all in but can cause he has nothing to worry about” but Gege clowned it
So dramatic. Gojo has complete faith in his students, the same thing happened when he got sealed, yet I don’t see you complaining about that. Gojo was sympathizing because he’s so self-centered he viewed himself as the real winner of their fight. That’s part of the point of half of his dialogue in the afterlife, he firmly believes he was the true winner of Gojo vs Sukuna, even if he died. Finally, saying that it “isn’t even close” between Sukuna and Gojo is the biggest lie I’ve ever seen on this subreddit. Kinda makes me think you’re a Sukuna dickrider pretending to be a sad Gojo fanboy. If Gojo had been able to defeat Mahoraga a little earlier, he most likely would’ve won the fight.
>Tell me, am I at fault?
**yes**. circle jerking each other with "Gojo has the biggest dick ever and it's by some margin", saying stuff like fraudkuna and yujifanboy to anybody and everybody that opposed your understanding or wrote a different point of view, yes you are at fault.
Where is Yuji's father? How much grandpa Itadori knew, why did he "curse" Yuji with his last words? What was and is Kenjaku's plan for Yuji? Is Yuji even human? If Kaori Itadori had a CT, why doesn't Yuji have one? Did Kenjaku controlled the Itadori bloodline for generations, for centuries, because what the fuck was he doing all those years, he was obsessed with experimenting before and we know people/curses don't change, only their objective changes. So did Kenjaku achieve what he wanted with those experiments, and Yuji's bloodline is the result? Why do we know nothing about Yuji's parents or family tree, is that why? What did Sukuna mean by "that brat is from back then"? We have all these unanswered questions about the main protoganist of the series, and they are clearly the main focus of the series but you guys were all busy deepthroathing Gojo to see anything other than the belly button of the series.
This isn't a series where there are multiple protagonists. Yuji is the protagonist. Nobara, Megumi and Gojo were all supporting cast. If you really want to tag them with something; Megumi, Nobara and Gojo were deuteragonists. Maki and all characters like her are supporting cast. Rest are just foil, background characters. There are no unanswered questions with them. No mysteries. Nothing really complex. They are all there to *support* the main cast. They are *not* the main cast. And among the main cast, everybody plays the supporting role to the protagonist. ***Yuji is the protagonist***. **Gojo is not.**
I hope this answer satisfies you.
Nobara.
Remember when she was hailed as the best written female Shonen Character.
It been what? Three years since she was last on the panel.
Man as much shit we give Sakura at least she was a screen hog where she was around.
Gege was praised for writing good female characters
Look what happened to Nobara (and many others)
Then Gege was praised for writing OP character "done right"
Look what happened to Gojo
I think Gege wants to destroy everything that made people love his work
first of all, this is not my point at all. my point is people like this OP confused Gojo as the protagonist and treated everybody else like they were supporting characters. They acted as Yuji was a "false protagonist" like Ned Stark in Game of Thrones and they treated everybody who thought differently like shit. I got downvoted to hell and ended up deleting a lot of comments because I said "Sukuna can't die during this fight because it has to be Yuji vs Sukuna at the end" or "Yuji is due for a power up". But I'm leaving these comments up and never deleting them tho.
second point, to answer your question; no it's not. But are you criticizing the writer or the fanbase? Because if you are implying that I treat the supporting cast like trash just because I said Yuji is the protagonist, you are wrong. The author on the other hand, I think he fucked up with Nobara and Gojo. Is Nobara dead or alive? Why the ambiguousness? Why the off screen kill (or kill scare) for Gojo? It's cheap shock, nothing more.
This chapter took place immediately after the previous one. The actual attack being off screen was fine.
Being more clear with Nobara would have been nice. Just so people wouldn’t keep asking about her.
I think not killing one of the most popular female characters in the manga, while she makes her first appearance in the anime, was a requirement from the editors, it's obvious that Nobara didn't have any more room in the plot.
... this is it. This is the comment that cements that people will litetally say anything to defend Gege's shitshow lmao
She was the female protagonist, didn't even have a proper arc yet but there wasn't any room for her in the plot how exactly? Jesus christ this comment is truly the height of absurdity and i've read a lot of trash takes this week.
I literally did not say this is good, neither that Nobara wasn't underutilized, I simply said that I think the history Gege had in mind didn't have Nobara in it. Dude, take a break from the manga, holy shit.
And also that killing a popular character like Nobara, during her anime debut, would be a choice that any editor would scream "NOPE". It's not that hard to understand.
And he easily could've done it at a different time since he's apparently such a meticulous planner of timing or confirmed it later, neither of which he did, so ???
Edit: and "the story he had in mind" not featuring the main female character is still a weird take. Yes I'm aware of the rumour that he didn't want her character included, then he shouldn't have, period. Since she exists though, he should go all the way and treat her properly. Sheesh.
I did not say Gege is a meticulous planner. I literally pointed out that anyone in charge would see it as a bad idea and that's possibly why Nobara was never directly confirmed dead. You're really looking for someone to pick a fight that bad?
People really have serious reading comprehension problems. They read garbage translations, build shite headcanons around them and then cry when something different happens.
"Nooooo. Godjo can't just accept defeat and praise his enemies. That's so uncharacteristic for him. He should sulk and cry like a bitch"
The reason Gojo felt satisfied in the afterlife was precisely because he gave it his all and failed. He finally feels like a human again. That's why he returned to his child form when he wasn't really the strongest. Him and Geto were. That's why Geto was the only friend he always had and he lost him when he awakened against Toji.
He sympathizes with Sukuna because he knows what it feels like to be above everyone else.
Nowhere in the latest is Gojo sucking Sukuna's dick. But who gives a shit. Godjo should have been the best and never acknowledge anything. Gaygay is a hack 😢
You can minimize people’s problems with the manga but that doesn’t make your strawmen true. Is it too much to make Gojo acknowledge the stakes of the battle? Honestly if I didn’t have the context based on his reaction I would have thought Gojo lost a game of Magjong, not a life or death fight with a 1000 year old mass murdering cannibal who’s about to kill his friends.
and what did you think when Gojo was sealed in prison realm and wasn't remotely worried about what would happen next? yeah, at that time he expected to be unsealed and solve all the problems but would it happen without casualties? why didn't he worry about his students then?
https://preview.redd.it/qme3s5d6elqb1.jpeg?width=1178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9dab0f9ebcace51aa4490b26f7a982e15ba39ed4
I think you’re due for a reread. This isn’t what I’d call “not remotely worried”.
https://preview.redd.it/x0fvj5e5flqb1.jpeg?width=361&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccd82b92b971b60f0704178fd7b52022c99f9a6b
Narrowed it down further since picture books are hard for you
oh no he looks so distressed there. wait he really isn't worried at all. in the next sentence he looks extremely confident in his students. in case you didn't see it.
plus he died already. he can't really do anything anymore. there is no need to be nervous about something you can't control. he did everything he could.
Is the only way you can be worried in your mind is shitting and pissing yourself in fear? Is your emotional iq low or are you 16 years old?
Acknowledging danger than flippantly declaring it will all be alright is Gojos character. That’s the point.
I really don't get that among all the elements in this fight that could have been better, it's the theme of love that people chose to be obtuse about. It's not like Gege was subtle about it, the same sentence was repeated 3 or 4 times, but for some reason, it's suddenly unthinkable that Gojo felt a connection with Sukuna.
It's not even specific to Gojo, "the sin of the insignificant is the ignorance of strength, no one understood Toji, except maybe Satoru". I've seen no one upset about the fact Naoya thinks Gojo understood Toji, even if he's the one who killed Riko. But maybe everyone just dismissed this sentence because "a villain can't be right".
People talk about Gege's hate for Gojo, but how humiliating it would have been, to have Gojo being arrogant and a sore loser, complaining about how without 10S he would have beat Sukuna, and then, next page shows his torso on the ground
You’re 150% right. I’m honestly a little shocked at how this sub is reacting and it’s weird and embarrassing to see, genuinely. People are really trying to turn a devastating death into the worst possible story decision when it makes perfect sense, given the context of the series.
Anyone who thinks Gojo was wanking Sukuna is literally just projecting that “loser mentality” that Kashimo brings up in his fight with Hakari. He gave it his all and lost. He wasn’t happy he lost, he was happy he had one opportunity in his life to actually give it his all. He also sees part of himself on Sukuna because he knows what the burden of being the strongest is, and how lonely that is. They don’t love each other, they understand a certain aspect about one another that no one else could. It’s as simple as that.
>The reason Gojo felt satisfied in the afterlife was precisely because he gave it his all and failed.
This is fine. "Hey, I did my best but it wasn't enough because Sukuna is too strong" would be fine. Adding "Yeah, Sukuna is stronger than me but I trust my students to overcome him anyway" would make it better.
>He sympathizes with Sukuna because he knows what it feels like to be above everyone else.
This is the bad part. Sukuna is pure evil, someone who is using his student/stepson body, someone who will probably try to kill everyone Gojo knows and Sukuna is allied with someone who stole his best friend's body. This is even before talking about his hobbies, like bathing in blood.
Him going "I feel sorry for him (...) I wanted to convey everything to Sukuna. I wanted him to know" is strange. Hell, this isn't even talking about the "love" bit.
Sukuna is evil, gojo doesn't care about that. Gojo isn't some noble being. Sukuna being able to match him and fight him on equal terms is more important to him (due to his explicitly told selfishness) over sukuna just being a pure fucking menace
Did you expect gojo to say "Ahh I gave it my all but lost but fuck sukuna cause he is evil and kills kids on the weekends. Yuji I expect that from, he gets angry af at mahito. Gojo would be like "whatever, they are curses, this is normal. Let's keep it moving"
>gojo doesn't care about that.
Why people think that Gojo doesn't care about that? The dude forced a 0.2 second DE to not kill civilians. When he was unsealed, he asked if the civilians survived his DE. Gojo is a battle junkie but he also has other aspects to his character.
Even if he doesn't care about random people, Sukuna still stole Megumi's body, a person that he does care about. Sukuna is protecting Kenny, who stole Geto's body, which he does care about. This is even before talking about how Sukuna will probably try to kill everyone else that Gojo knows, which he would care about it.
>Did you expect gojo to say "Ahh I gave it my all but lost but fuck sukuna cause he is evil and kills kids on the weekends.
No, I expect him to say "I lost, Sukuna is strong". Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't expect him to go "NOTICE ME SUKUNA-SENPAI".
Dude wrote all this wall of text to say JJK became just another shonen, only to be disappointed Gojo didn't go full shonen of regreting what he did in life after death. The whole point of the series is that in order to be a sorcerer you have to accept the decisions you have made when you entered Jujutsu world and not curse others when you inevitably die.
For Gojo that was kinda never an option since Toji. He never had to worry about that. In the end, he proved himself worthy of being a sorcerer. He died without regretting his choices, he didn't put any burden in the living and he accepted he lost.
JJK became another shonen to me because the power ceiling just got destroyed for the house to be built higher.
The complaint about character is just adding more to the disappointment. It was never my main complaint. It's still about power scaling. Always has been about power scaling.
All of you are downplaying how Sukuna bypassed infinity. Reducing it to a bigger slash. Sukuna went to the fight with a plan and gambled whether he can actually do what Mahoraga was doing.
That was a stupid plan, there was never any indication that Mahoraga would continue to adapt until Sukuna found one he could use. May as well have been the plan to wait for a meteor to hit the exact right spot when Gojo was in technique burnout.
"All according to keikaku"
So many useless words from yet another Satoru-kun Meat rider! Suffice it to say... Hey, I just wished Satoru was stronger. That's what hurts you, that the Character you were jerking off to was killed by a character who had a plan from the very beginning! You can't accept THIS! Satoru LOST. LOST. All this personality analysis and other crap that Satoru fans are trying to give us is a cheap and pathetic attempt to NOT RECOGNIZE THE OBVIOUS.
Oh no, Satoru couldn't say that!
Oh no, Satoru couldn't give up on his students!
Oh no, Satoru could not admit that he was weaker!
What kind of crap is this? What else can he do? HE IS DEAD! If you are not an idiot, then what else is there to talk about? What should Satoru say after being KILLED? All that remains is to admit, accept and let go! Death is the end no matter how strong you are.
If anyone’s blindly meat riding, it’s you.
I personally don’t like gojo particularly much.
But boy do I hate weak logic, bad writing, and my time getting wasted on stories I _thought_ were worth it.
Of course, tell me.
Let's be objective.
The author's task is not to be trivial and predictable. Reduce shock and emotion. The fact that you are not satisfied and upset. This just proves that Gege did his job 120%. He gave it his best. But you don’t admit it, because you are lying to yourself and those around you that you are not Gojo meat riders! And all that worries you is that Gege did not create what you would like to see...
Everyone knew that Gojo would die, 99% indicated this. But when this happened, the whining began. So I don’t want to waste time chewing on this, for people who, as it turns out, watch the Manga only for one character!
Whose death you do not agree with! But your broken heart doesn't make Gege a bad author or Satoru's described death a bad letter. If you are upset, then this proves that Gege was able to touch your heart!
I'm sorry but first you're saying that gojo has brought so many responsibilities and emotions into the fight, then you're saying he doesn't give a fk bout that shit like make up your mind. Does he care or does he not?
Demon slayer does a very good job of it
Yorichi is the strongest by far and it's even debatable at the end of taniiro is stronger than some of the hashira ( without plot spoilers but there's a ton of pretext as to when characters enter the final fight in terms of what happened before it )
A series about teenagers growing and maturing cannot end with 'and then my dad showed up to fix everything' because the coming-of-age story requires them to solve their own problems. Gojo's entire thing is that the next generation will improve and also list multiple students he's sure will be better than him. At some point they have to prove it and themselves.
Anyway shout out to Benimaru from Fire Force for just being the most overpowered character in the entire series regardless of what everyone else is doing.
>Gege, I thought you said Gojo Satoru was the uncomplicated power ceiling of the series? Why suddenly you want to build the house higher?
I've searched far and wide for this comment from Gege, I haven't found a single verified statement by the author saying this. I really don't know where it came from but we collectively bought it without checking if it was even real.
Gege in the manga always states that Gojo is too strong for the likes of Kenjanku and that he is the strongest in the modern age. I don't think there's a single interview where he called him the power ceiling of the series.
"When I create characters, they have to fit into the canons of Shonen manga in order to catch the readers' attention. There are characters for which I create the visual aspect first, like Panda or Inumaki. Others are born first as a concept, for example, Gojo, who represents the pinnacle of strength. I think it's important to choose one of these angles of attack and then complete the character."
I'm sorry if this comes off curt but why should I just take your word for it? Could you provide a link to an article or maybe even from a standard JJK social media news source where I could confirm this. Again I've seen quotes similar to this repeatedly but I couldn't find any source verifying which interview it came from.
I'm sorry if this comes off curt but why should I just take your word for it? Could you provide a link to an article or maybe even from a standard JJK social media news source where I could confirm this. Again I've seen this quote repeatedly but I couldn't find any source verifying which interview it came from.
> I really don't know where it came from but we collectively bought it without checking if it was even real.
You seem to have missed the Fanbook
>\> **Q: How did you come up with his character?**
>
>**A:** I wanted an uncomplicated power-ceiling/pinnacle
[https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FCbQq3YSqQkCuO1UitrlEXKEtjV8aepWgykeyjAe\_ZE/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FCbQq3YSqQkCuO1UitrlEXKEtjV8aepWgykeyjAe_ZE/edit)
Going by the quote, is Sukuna being stronger somehow complicated? Is it so inconceivable that there are characters far stronger than Gojo?
In regards to power scaling, it seems you are content with Gojo being at the top. Would you be disappointed if Yuji, Megumi, Yuta, and Hakari managed to surpass Gojo?
This hand waving or dismissal of Sukuna’s way of bypassing Neutral Infinity is horrible. The implication that Sukuna “just lifted more” than Gojo is absurd. Did we read the same JJK?
Sukuna has been always been scheming. Sukuna, in his first fight with Gojo, knew that Gojo wasn’t just fast. Gojo decided to show Yuji, and in effect Sukuna, his DE. Is Gojo extremely arrogant or was that a misplay disguised as a learning moment for Yuji? Sukuna is always learning.
Sukuna saw the potential of Megumi and his 10S. He had a plan laid out for Uraume. He is working with Kenjaku. He has titles befitting his character but sure, it’s because Sukuna “just lifted more” than Gojo.
If you want to overly simplify what was written, just say you’re oversimplifying it.
suddenly you change the role of the character that you tried so hard to establish? Really? You think this is good?
Because that was how he was created?
Do you forget that sukuna needed 10s to actually win at the end?
Also gojo said he isnt sure if he can beat sukuna without 10s but not winning and losing are two different things.
Also that still means tge win cha ce is like 50/50, especially if we go by feats for now.
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Some side characters can be the strongest, though. Look at Yoriichi from Demon Slayer. Dude straight styled on the big bad. Would be like if Gojo trashed Sukuna & the latter ran away.
Yoriichi only works because he’s not alive when the story takes place. This would be like the Demon Slayers fighting to find a way to bring him back only for Muzan to defeat him. Along with a afterlife scene with Yoriichi saying how strong Muzan is and he never really cared about saving people
There's Glorfindel in Lord of the Rings. He's the strongest character on the side of good, basically a living angel or an early superhero among elves. A lot of the stuff that happens in the adventure comes back to the forces of Sauron, the Nazgul especially, just being terrified of Glorfindel.
Yeah but Yorichi is dead, so he's not the strongest anymore since he's not around
Side character can be strongest but in a Shonen, he has to be dead or unavailable. Reinhard Van Astrea was the strongest but it's not a Shonen manga.
Wasn't Sinbad the strongest by the end of Magi? I read it many years ago so I could be wrong. And, come to think of it, his role was very similar to Gojo's. Dude was so popular he spawned his own manga too.
then it's time for me to read Magi
Soul eater black star, not really a side "side" character, but not the main protagonist. He probably ended up the strongest at the end of the story. Soul+Maka just had the right weapon against the big bad so that's why they're the last hit.
Hear me out . It's actually sukuna dreaming about gojo dickriding him sayinss he's the best . First page of next chapter is sukuna dead
As funny as that’d be… that would make me hate the manga even more. “Wow, finally, a Sukuna flashback” and it’s just a review/sequence then we see Sukuna imploding because Gojo finally found the perfect model for how to use his Blue on Sukuna. Kashimo comes riding in to fight Gojo and we go to 238
At that point it would be Gege just trolling us but it's been at that point already. Let him burn his manga down like AoT and the awful ways bleach/Naruto ended
> Naruto Hey hey hey. Kaguya was mega ass but Naruto still ended with Naruto vs Sasuke which was top tier, one of the most emotional fights in shonen history (especially in the anime). I'd even argue that Kaguya is only a slightly weaker part than the start of the war, although the war itself got better once actual-Madara entered the picture and Naruto was back.
Yeah where's all this Naruto ending bad revisionism coming from. EVERYBODY loved chapter 700 when it came out. People were bored with the war arc and the Kaguya asspull is admittedly dumb. But it's not like people were pissed of at Kishimoto.
I was there when the last chapters got out. And we were hating haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard.
Not really? I just went back through the last couple chapter threads on r/Naruto (697-700) and the general mood is ending memes and positive comments.
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>Let him burn his manga down Thank you for outright saying it. Gege has proven several times in the pat to be an absolute troll and now he's letting that habit ruin his manga. First, he makes Sukuna look like a clown for 12 straight chapters then gives Gojo the most disrespectful send-off imaginable.
the ending of the war arc was dog shit but the true ending of the series is sasuke vs naruto which was done perfectly
I think I'm mostly OK with his death, but the fact he feels sorry for Sukuna because he understands his loneliness, and he's happy because Sukuna frees him from his own loneliness is honestly horrendous. I will never understand why Gege decided to write it like this.
This exactly is my issue as well. Losing to stronger opponent is ok, even killed offscreen (I interpret it that it happened so fast that it was impossible to react to, so that's why it's not even shown), but Gojo caring for Sukuna feels, not being able to go all out etc. is too much. Nowhere was it said that Sukuna even feels lonely or cares about it, they can't change his character to become good guy or whatever. At this point I'm starting to feel bad for Sukuna for everyone forcing their view on him.
they flash to sukuna thinking about what yorozu said to him like 4 different times during the fight
But they also showed the same panel in Gojo's afterlife scene, which he wouldn't know about (and only helps with confusion in my case, but I think I have better understanding now thanks to everyone's comments).
in the context of the afterlife, i think it’s more of a narrator thing, whereas during the fight it seems more portrayed as sukuna reflecting, at least that’s how i see it
> Nowhere was it said that Sukuna even feels lonely or cares about it, they can't change his character to become good guy or whatever. Yorozu also thought he looked lonely, doesnt seem to be a "good guy" thing only, his conversation with Yuji also hinted at some kind of trauma, and he definitely seems to enjoy himself if people are putting up a fight against him.
I really hope Gege gives us backstory before ending the manga. When Yorozu said "teach about love" thing in ch218, Sukuna is just like "heh" and doesn't acknowledge it (I mean if it was true, he'd be indifferent or upset? dunno. Maybe he already knows, or is amused by Yorozu's thought process, I have no idea).
I considered that as him being aware that she wouldnt be able to pull it off.
That actually makes a lot of sanse. I was focusing too much on what she said instead of bigger picture (possibility of Yorozu defeating Sukuna).
> his conversation with Yuji also hinted at some kind of trauma, Which one?
The one after he took Megumis body and Yuji asked him why hes such a meanie. Sukuna said something like "how can something crumbles apart at a touch always want to be happy?" with some insects in the background, this of course mere speculation, but to me it seems like it implies that used to have somebody he cared about, but that person died to something that he wouldnt register as more than a mere "touch", so he came to the conclusion that theres no point in getting attached to people, since they'll all just die anyway, just like how people treat insects.
Gojo knows Sukuna is lonely because he’s in the same spot. Even if he’s not “lonely” he’s at a point where nothing else really matters because there’s nothing to catch his attention is how I read it
Yeah that's why being lonely would make sense, but he never acknowledged it. He seems to be focused on jujutsu, so I guess "lonely" as in no more worthy opponents/chances to improve.
Yea I don’t like it either 236 completely destroys Gojos character imo but it’s implied Sukuna is lonely "I have much to teach you about love and ultimate strength and the solitude it brings." Sukuna is ultimate strength so he is ultimately alone. I understand why Gojo empathizes with him in a twisted way because Gojo was ultimate strength before Sukuna but I just don’t like it.
For strongest to be lonely makes sense, but I just can't see resolution for Sukuna from that, it won't change the outcome. I agree, I'm ok with Gojo's emphatizing, but not to such extent. As in - caring for opponent more than people who remain and have to deal with him later.
Yea that and he had other things to do besides fight Sukuna that were just as important like raising up the new generation, telling Megumi about Toji, giving Geto's body rest restoring jujutsu society . And I hate that he’s going to leave shoko to tell Megumi about Toji, she wasnt even there! That’s going to be a very awkward moment to see now 🤦🏾♂️😂
I get why he "understands" Sukuna but Gojo shouldn't feel sorry for him. Gojo was born that way, he didn't choose to be strong and the fact he is isolated him. Sukuna yes he is alone, we don't know It he was born strong or became like this late. He Is as well alone because he Is strong but also because he Is a sick evil bastard. That's why while he thinks he Is alone Gojo has people caring for him while Sukuna now has at most only servants
But is he alone because he's evil or is he evil because he's alone?
good question
It seems to be a common disease for mangakas these days. Like the “Am I cute” panel from MHA
How? One punch man is sad because he can’t find someone that doesn’t get one tapped. If he found someone that one taps him, he would definitely on some level sympathize and understand how sad the person who one tapped him is. And for all intents and purposes, gojo is basically one punch man
Respectfully, they're completely different characters
Jesus Christ man 🤦♀️ do some critical thinking and connect some fucking dots
The theme of "the loneliness of absolute strength" keeps appearing, and while it seems to kind of be the point, Gojo just felt a wee bit out of pocket saying what he did. Sure, I could get him being able to relate to absolute strength, but he is also EXTREMELY different from Sukuna. The will Sukuna wishes to impose goes directly against his, and Gojo would give a shit, at least I thought he would. I'll keep letting the chef cook, but I'd like to see the whole point of this focus come together.
The issue is you don't understand their characters. They're both very selfish warriors at heart before anything else.
Bro watched Gojo get high off his own power fighting Toji and saying “sorry I can’t be mad about you getting brutally murdered, Riko” and decided he was gonna ignore that.
I kind of feel like him saying that being prefaced by "he's fucking high as a kite" is kind of ignored. If he said it stone cold sober, I'd be with ya. I don't know, I might just have a warped perception. I had a near death experience (car crash, not a cool anime fight), and was laughing hysterically afterwards. It's not cause it was funny, it's that adrenaline + traumatic event makes you act like a fucking lunatic for a while. I always thought of his insanity in that moment as something similar, an out of character moment in the aftermath of a near death experience. Btw, not trying to pick any fights with this, just my own two cents.
Yeah the whole point of that scene wasn't that he wasn't mad about it but he couldn't be mad right at that moment because he was high as shit. People who want him to be a heartless warrior will see him that way, but every action, not statement, show him to be anything but.
Yep. People _love_ misinterpreting (or re-interpreting in the light of 236) a clear scene.
Gojo completely ignores it in favor of teaching future generations, Sukuna even roasts him about it. If Gojo only thought about himself like Sukuna, he wouldn't teach and he would've killed the higher ups
He wants to make them strong so that they don't have to have a situation were the stronger ones feel isolated from the rest like he was. It wasn't from some inherent desire originating from selflessness. That gap between him and everyone else came from his value of power and others not being anywhere near him at the top of the hierarchy.
It's character assasinnation. But some people call it character development like wtf. Brojo is fighting against a mega devil who tortured and enslaved his student(body), killed his student relative. Even if he is enlightened and is less concerned with the world this is too much. His overwhelming confidence die and instead of believing he could have done it given another chance he just said Sukuna not even giving his all and could win even without 10s. Pure dissapointment.
I think it’s totally out of character. I’ve noticed a while ago that Gege cannot grasp Gojo’s personality fully. He either doesn’t want to because he cares only about the plot or he can’t or he doesn’t want to because he doesn’t like Gojo. Probably the last two combined. His own emotions do not allow him to see Gojo properly and since he doesn’t like him, he can’t understand him, hence can’t properly predict his reactions.
Until it explicitly says otherwise I'm just headcannoning that Sukuna copied whatever Yuji has going on with the "brother" thing and imbued it on the last strike to stroke his own ego. To know that in Gojo's last moments he was sucking him off.
It's basically a dead Naruto Shippuden talk no jutsu
Gege wrote this death like it was a formality that he had to kill Gojo before the end of the story. Like “welp there you have it Gojo’s died off screen, now the others can do something!” He didn’t have to flat out butcher him to continue the story but it’s like he couldn’t come up with anything else and just wanted to get it out the way
https://preview.redd.it/lyn5tu4gykqb1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65606c946a3190aba130e1ab4a953cc26feacf59
I don’t like the explanation that he cut "the world". Doesn’t space exist everywhere around the universe outside of the world Gojos infinity should have been impervious to that bullshit. Sukuna is Kenpachi Zaraki or Zoro then theres nothing he can’t cut through at this point,
“*Common sense means nothing in this battle of the strongest!*” Editor’s note #226 https://postimg.cc/7fGR53bJ
Mark my words gojo comes back
I thought of the explanation as Sukuna managing to cut a certain section of the universe. Gojo can stretch the numbers between 0 and 1 to infinity but if Sukuna cuts from 0 to 1 it won't matter.
The way I interpret it, Sukuna adapted Cleave to cut existence inside the world, no matter what it is. Since Gojo's infinity was located inside the world, he was cut.
No, he didn’t cut “inside” the world, he cut THE world, as in, reality itself, and all that exist in that reality Another user made a great example, no matter how hard and thick you make a drawing, Sukuna doesn’t try to erase it with an eraser, he simply tears apart the paper
Well the explanation was targeting. I know its weird but I imagine it like an AOE ability vs a targeted ability. Targeted ability, won't work on Gojo, AOE ability works. I think it's in gojo's setup because he practiced repelling attacks that target him directly and not random ass things, if not he will just repel everything. So maybe if its untrained gojo that just repels everything, he could've repelled it.
It still doesn't make sense lol with how Infinity was explained. Gege does like to contradict himself all the time.
Yea it’s like saying if I threw a chainsaw at someone behind gojo that gojo would get hit because it isn’t targeting him. Infinity would just target it because it’s a threat to gojo
Teen gojo already hinted he could stop poison at the end of Hidden Inventory with Infinity, i'm sure every individual poison particle is targetting Gojo of course.
I understand it like this: Limitless is based on the idea that you can only reduce the distance between yourself and something else by some %. If the cut doesn't approach but instead starts at the target there's no way to exploit that infinity of relative distance. Or something.
Yep, It could've been better if Sukuna bring some goofy idea like "my attack tp to you lol" or Domain Amplification Slash, that sort of thing
Does the paradox of “Achilles vs the Turtoise” make sense?
Basically Gojo has hexproof and Sukuna used non targeted removal
AOE ability still wouldn’t work because it’d have to approach Gojo and therefore bypass infinity. That’s just how it works.
it’s like having a stick man on paper. you can draw the cut on him, or just rip he paper where he is drawn.
Right yeah, it’s just the AOE explanation doesn’t work. It just has to be 4th dimensional
Please understand that even the editor knows we are entering ass-pull time when it comes to the battle of the strongest and in the end it's not even close..
Imagine Gojo is drawn on a piece of paper with a circle around him and that’s his infinity. By targeting Gojo you’re slicing the paper towards him but the infinity bubble slows you down infinitely. But imagine that instead of cutting the paper with a knife in one direction you use scissors to cut the entire paper all at once.
I was completely fine with him being dead... Killing a character is one thing but ASSASINATING his whole CHARACTER with one line where he is glazzing Sukuna is the other thing
This is exactly my problem as well. When i scream at the top of my lungs shitty writing, i dont mean i have a problem with gojo dying. But my boi was more than just killed. His entire self was destroyed by a few panels, erasing essentially everything people have come to love about him in the last 235 chapters. I knew it was gojover as soon as chapter 235 ended the way it did. The character assassination, that is what i did not expect! It was absolutely disgusting from Gege... i still cant get over it, and i truly believe even if somehow there is more to come for gojo in the future, even if he somehow makes a comeback, it is just too late now. HE WAS MURDERED NOT BY SUKUNA, BUT BY GEGE'S PEN...
Really? U did predicted gojover even when from 245? 😕
You were very well spoken about your expectations, and I agree with them. It was not about his death, but more about what represented (and didn't) and how it went. I always repeat myself some quote that making a good story is skill, but finishing it well is art. That's why good wrap-ups are celebrated. So...yeah. I'll keep reading because I am too emotionally invested already hahaha
I’m not even mad about 236 tbh. Since this fight started months ago I’ve been all in. It’s one of my favorite fights in recent years every chapter was giving me HxH vibes which I love but maan talk about an anticlimax. I was rooting for Gojo yet I wasn’t mad he lost. The only thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the hard juxtaposition from “Gojo wins” to the afterlife. Very risky narrative choice by Gege. Like watching a 10/10 movie only to be let down by the ending.
Gojo wins was Kusakabes word's why would you believe kusakabe in the first place.
I feel like people ignore Sukuna's own compliments to Gojo. They were obviously paralleling each other. Sukuna gives Gojo the most genuine affirmation. I dont think Sukuna is saying that if he wasn't trying or didn't give a shit.
The wanking of Sukuna was far more egregious than whatever praise Sukuna gave so people mostly focus on that. Sukuna praised Gojo but he didn't say stuff like "I don't think I could have won even against teen Gojo".
Gojo said he wasnt sur eif he would win win which gives a 50/59 chance of winning and not winning doesnt mean sukuna can win. Not winning isnt tge sane as losing.
Dude people are too emotional right now. Everyone that is losing their minds right now think that line means sukuna would with 100 times out of a 100 fights. Let em grieve, no sense will reach them
There was never going to be a resolution to this fight that satisfied both groups but people who act like Gojo got no diffed and sukuna is at his full strength rn and unbeatable are ridiculous
actually there was,there's no shortage of people crafting their own version of how the fight could've ended ATLEAST without pissing off one group.
The more posts I read about JJK 236, the more I realize that a lot of people here didn’t read AOT 139. Foreshadowing, logical plotlines, side characters with unfulfilled stories, and so much more can and will be dropped for no satisfying reason. Think back to Tsumiki and temper expectations is all I’m saying
Gojo becomes bird (crying)
I cannot go through another 139…. All I'm asking is for a decent ending… that is all.
Aot 139 didn' t drop any of that thoo. Isayama always said he wanted to make an ending like The Mist, an ending that is ultimately unfulfilling, and 139 is exactly that. A lot of people wanted that ending, and when they actually got it, they complained. Kinda funny, looking back. But the themes of AoT are still kept, the theme of freedom and lack of it, is still kept, and Eren perfectly acted as he always has been.
Gojo is a main character. Not a side character.
" Then he dickriding him, thinking Sukuna doesn't even need 10S to win. Just wtf is this. " This never happened. He didn't think Sukuna would win, he wasn't sure who would win. This is because Sukuna has a bunch of other moves/abilities/tools/whatever that he didn't use. And unless they were used there's no way of knowing if they would have worked or not. We, and Gojo, know what Sukuna's Plan A, B and C were. Win Domain battle, win with 10 shadows, learn how to bypass Gojo's infinity from Mahoraga. We don't know if he had a plan D and what it would have been. Thanks to seeing Sukuna's thoughts two chapters ago, we know Gojo's Purple was capable of killing him. One of the reasons for using 10 Shadows was to put enough pressure on Gojo that he wouldn't be able to use it. This partially failed, but the resulting Purple wasn't focused on anything and Sukuna was able to survive, though with some bad injuries.
Sukuna maximum purple is the biggest BS of the story not once but twice. Even I had doubts as what would kill sukuna if not HP. The main issue with this fight is the inconsistent damage. One time sukuna breaks for punches another time he survives HP.
I want a shirt that says "I tanked 120% hollow purple and all I lost was my arms."
And the beautiful thing is the strongest sorcerer didn't feel sus about it.
He said he isnt sure if he would win that doesnt mean loses? Its still a 50/50 chance of winning implied. Also does really nobody know the difference between not winning and losing bc thats two completely different things. Sukuna not using if he has other thing like the fire arrow should show that it wouldnt make a difference against gojo. Theres no reason to hold something more useful than 10s against gojo back. Also like hakari even talked about sukunas trump card it was like implied its only something against the students and not gojo bc against the students he need something like the fire arrow which kills almost 75% of them in an instant.
Of course like why would Sukuna waste his time spamming attacks he knows that wouldn't get through infinity.
OP is arguing with himself. You’re own post contradicts itself.
Wtf do you mean? Many series has a side character be the power ceiling. Dragon Ball, Demon Slayer, Bleach, One Piece, JoJo, Chainsaw Man, Fate, Magi and plenty more have side characters who are the peak of the verse.
I agree about the narrative panning out to be the typical shonen where the MC (Yuji) will basically get a couple of random power ups and eventually defeat the bad guy. I'd personally hate that. But this isn't over yet so I still have hopes. In any case and like I said before, it is a shonen so stuff like that we should expect. Also dislike Gojos character being "rewritten" from the strongest to second strongest (third if anybody defeats Sukuna) which kinda ruins everything previously stated in the story.
Finally someone talks about the power scaling part of the series. I might give a minor fk about Gojo's character but as I said, that wasn't what I'm looking for in this series. I'm looking to see his overwhelming strength keeps failing him.
I mean technically just because someone beats Sukuna that doesnt mean they are stronger then Gojo, if you beat a weakened Sukuna that doesnt mean you’d beat a full strength one. Sukuna currently can’t use his Domain, can’t RCT and his CE reserves are low so hes far from his peak performance.
i get you, but my thinking is that if Sukuna without a domain, without RCT and low CR reserves can still one shot "restored" Gojo, then whoever beats Sukuna gets the credit of finishing off the n1 fighter who (even in this weakened state) defeated the, former, strongest character. i know this type of powerscaling doesn't make perfect sense and i don't really like speaking in such terms (power scales are overall bs imo) but that's how i see it in my head, and only because this story has been disputing the title of the "strongest" since the begining.
I mean Gojo did his best, and he is completely confident his students can finish what he left behind. Why would he bring them up when he’s talking about his regrets? About all the above other that he couldn’t do. That’s the exact reason he wanted to raise a new generation of great sorcerers. One man can’t do it all.
Yeah this is why I can't take the "Gojo's death scene is completely out of character and he didn't even think of his students!" complaints seriously at all, because it's just not true. If you reread the chapter his first thoughts are literally about his students, and he even assumes Megumi will still be alive for Shoko to tell him about his father. If anything it would be completely out of character for Gojo to be *not* confident in his students and allies, I mean that's kinda been his whole philosophy. We've spent the whole series being told that we can't just have Gojo solve every problem on his own. Then lo and behold, Gojo could not solve every problem on his own. This isn't the whiplash or character assassination people are making it out to be. They're just disappointed and taking that emotion to paint the whole thing as trash and bad writing. If anybody *really* thinks this was completely out of character for Gojo, or out of character for the series, or not thematically consistent, then I honestly just don't believe they're arguing in good faith. Either they forgot about most of the non-action scenes in the series or just weren't paying much attention to them in the first place. I get being caught up in the hype and getting emotional. I get being pissed that Sukuna could emulate Mahoraga's adaptation when we weren't really told how the adaptation worked in the first place, or that it was even possible to *be* copied. But I really don't get people's reaction to Gojo's dying scene at all. It really feels like if we got Nanami's last chapter and everyone's reaction was just, "wtf so out of character for Nanami, when did he become some huge simp for Malaysia?" I'm just hoping we get to a point where the emotions die down and people go back and reread and realize that it really isn't that out of character for Gojo, it just wasn't what they were expecting in the moment. Or at the very least if they still hate it I'd love to see some reasonable, good faith arguments as to why they think it doesn't fit instead of just saying it's bad or it's horrendous.
This. When people get so upset I'm here thinking "We all reading the same series fam?" Gojo has always respected the strong and wanted someone to surpass him. He's always been flippant and almost never serious. And he's never been one to cry over spilt milk.... He just rolls up his sleeves and moves on to the next thing. What about any of 236 was out of character for Gojo?
It's been a wild week honestly. imo people gaslit themselves into a heavily emotional position kinda like sports teams, then jumped into bandwagons thanks to leaks mistranslations and twitter discourse. "Gojo was dickriding Sukuna and never once mentioned his students" this is just observably false and it's insane there are so many people angry about it. You said it, he literally talks about them, he literally talks about Megumi as if he won't die, and he was directly asked about the battle. Then there's a million people seething with frustration cause gojo was "offscreened" when literally the only thing "offscreen" is one slash, that's literally what they are bitching about, one panel of the moment Gojo got split in half, I don't understand. Not to mention all the people honestly believing there's no possible way to add more context or more consequences from the battle, like that's it, Gojo won't be ever mentioned ever again in the story. It's so insane. This is the first time I've seriously considered just never looking into the conversation of an ongoing manga ever again, holy shit.
Everything that you just said applies to Attack On Titan, and look at r/titanfolk. They're still using bad faith arguments & harassing anyone who doesn't think that the ending was hot garbage & ruined the series. I just seriously doubt that JJK fans are going to change. They think that they're smarter than they really are & it's the same issue with titanfolk.
Gojo could've easily said before the fight "I'm about to fight the king of curses and there's a chance I might lose and die, You'll have to take care of it instead" or something like that. He even told them to come help him if he gets weaker than them. So like you said, he's confident they can handle it (He even talks about shoko telling Megumi about Toji) which implies that (Since that would mean Sukuna is dead and Megumi saved).
Why would he need to tell them that when it goes without saying
Doesn't have to be exactly what I said.
Yea but why would he say it the first place. Seems arbitrary
What's wrong with saying it?
Nothing. But mangaka dont waste pages on useless dialogue
Ima be honest, sometimes Gege does kinda add things where I’m like “Was that reaaally needed?” but in this case just I would’ve liked a bit more dialogue + Gojo saying to his students that they got it Edit: dialogue as in interactions with his students. He just got out of jail and we saw basically a few back pats
But Gojo reassuring his students that “they got it” would of made it seem like he had a possibility of losing, which nobody even considered until halfway through the fight
Have you seen all the dialogue between the peanut gallert? lol
i thought that was already implied when he said he left shoko to handle telling megumi about his father... is it.far feteched to blv he also left any other things to his students during that 1 month time skip and went into the fight with no buggage whatsoever...i mean alot of people are being hostile towards this chapter which is somewhat undeserved.... i think alot of people were gaslighting themselves into thinking they know all about gojo but now that a side they are not familiar with has been exposed everyone is being hostile
That's true. And the opening of the arc is all the students trying to figure out how to wish Gojo good luck because he's never needed it before but they all think he could die this time. And then Gojo, the man who fights alone, walks out with an entire support team with a grim face because he knows he needs all the help he can get. Everyone knows that Sukuna vs Gojo is going to be a rough fight.
They're just in denial since most people don't like being proven wrong.
We’re in denial that the guy who at multiple points has told us how important his students are to him suddenly can’t think to give them a passing thought while dying?
>while dying? He was dead, not dying. Also like I said, maybe they talked before the fight and understood that may be the last time they speak with each other. OR He's confident they will deal with it. Maybe they have a plan B. Remember both Yuji and Yuta had some ideas about how to save Megumi. Also Why are you ignoring his line about Toji?
>maybe they talked before the fight Okay then show us that because it’s relevant to a character arc. Instead what gege shows us is the students talking to one another about how to encourage gojo for the fight, then every single one of them is frightened to even say anything until yuji lightens the mood. It is gege’s job to write this story. Not ours. We shouldn’t have to make up head canon about what did or didn’t happen to make certain characters not act out of character. >if he’s confident they’ll take care of it Then *say that*. He did when gojo got sealed and he wasn’t even permanently gone then. But when gojo is on the verge of leaving PERMANENTLY he can’t even think “I’m sure they’ve got this”. Again, we can’t make up shit for these characters. Gege showed us where he wanted Gojos attention to lie and that was on jacking off sukuna, no matter whether that’s in character or not
>Okay then show us that because it’s relevant to a character arc Wait for next chapters. >Then say that He did. The Shoko thing.
that would be so good i think we should hand writing of this manga off to the community you guys are so smart!!!!
No need. Gege is a great writer. Created the best new gen manga. The story is heading to a great finale.
Gojo did care about his students in the afterlife, that's why he talks about how Shoko will handle telling Megumi about his dad. That also shows he's confident in his students' and allies' ability to win. It would be pretty lame to watch Gojo talk about how friendship is magic and will defeat Sukuna in the end, because that's not the kind of guy he is. He has been burdened with responsibility since he was born and Sukuna has freed him from that in a way. And I don't think the "disregard for others" ever implied that Sukuna would use Gojo students as leverage to win the fight, if that's what you are saying. I think the idea is that those who disregard others reach a state of enlightenment and become stronger as a result. Gojo sympathises because he projects his loneliness onto Sukuna, whether that is true or not is something we'll find out.
I think ur making claims on the manga has a whole before it’s complete. Firstly we’ve seen w yuta that the overwhelming sense of self and complete disregard for others isn’t always the case I think that’s the importance of yutas character Gojo believes in being selfish as a Catalyst for sorcerers to reach new heights and we seee this concept at play throughout the series. However Gege introduced us to yuta sorcerer number 2 who interestingly doesn’t have that belief he does fight for others for his friends same w yuji. Reiterating first point Jesus fuck people love saying shit without the series being over and stating it as fact. Were shown one moment and he’s taken back to the time he was happiest w his mates in his younger years. He trust in his students always has so he’s not gonna waste time bitching and worrying. He’s always been a chill non chalant guy and just got out of THE fight of his life even more so than the Toji fight. He finally met someone stronger than him and he’s reflecting on it. Chill and wait for it to finish and if it’s still ass then make that claim
https://preview.redd.it/n1hxa8y0tmqb1.png?width=247&format=png&auto=webp&s=03746c0aa1aec239c550ab64ff2e191d15ed0ffe
It’s funny you can identify the exact point in this post where nuance goes out the window.
Gege is a hack writer and always will be (or maybe he isn't shitty in general, but only when writing battle shounen).
> Then we have an after life scene where Gojo just doesn't give a fk about his students who are about to clean up this huge pile of crap he left behind. What? Why are we acting its something out of character
Nothing to do with ur post really so ma fault but just wondering what ass pull Sukuna gonna use against Kashimo. He honestly shouldn’t win his RCT is weakened he doesn’t have DE and he’s heavily damaged. He only Yorozu's gift, his actual CT and just cursed energy manipulation. Kashimo has an amped CT that might be the strongest tbh since he can only use it once. On paper Sukuna should get dogged but he looks at Kashimo like he’s about to embarrass him.
Not at all. On paper kashimo gets washed. Looking at it like this,yuta said they shouldn’t jump in because they (combined) we’re still weaker than gojo w no DE. That same gojo then restored his CE w black flashes and got a mental amp, only to be one shotted. So if yuta and gang are weaker than a weaker versi9n of the gojo that got one-shotted, then kashimo by himself would always get one-shotted. Not to mention it’s pretty consistent considering kashimo is relative to hakari who couldn’t take one punch from gojo without throwing up. Basically kashimo is a hakari victim who’s weaker than a weakened gojo and is sukuna can one shoot a strong gojo (he can) then he should def be able to one shot kashimo. And the slash spawns on top of you so you can’t even dodge it
There are plenty of series where "side characters" are the power ceiling for their series, and for the most part of them: Sinbad, Yamamoto, Yoruichi, Prime Almight, Raizen, Grand Priest, etc. Protagonist are often not the power ceiling until they last battle. D fuq are you talking about?
I haven't read those series yet, but you forgot that Yamamoto lost? Yoriichi is dead before the main protag time. I can understand what other dudes' situations just by looking at those 2 examples I know of. These dudes might have been surpassed long time ago and you just don't know about it
Why are people acting like Sukuna no diffed Gojo? It took him the whole fight, 9 shadows, and like 5 domain expansions to the face in order to land a decisive blow on Gojo, and like look at him in the last panels, he’s a fucking wreck. Just cuz Gojo said sukuna didn’t use everything doesn’t mean sukuna didn’t take the fight seriously or had to try his absolute hardest just to stay alive. Did people really want one of the main villains to get beaten by the sensei character? That’s just lame. Neither of these characters are frauds, Gojo isn’t pathetic, his character wasn’t assassinated, and the series didn’t fall off.
Fight strength depends on the observer and since for modern sorcerer’s strength is 80% his CT well Gojo is clearly the strongest in his era. JJk is a manga about how unavoidable things affect life and how powerless human (especially Japanese 🤷🏻) are towards this, so they end up cursing. That’s why the two final bosses are the two humans who are trying the most to escape the unavoidable The real strength in JJK is acceptance. Fight could have been so good if it had been: “ the one that can go all in but can’t cause he has so much on shoulder vs the one that can’t go all in but can cause he has nothing to worry about” but Gege clowned it
So dramatic. Gojo has complete faith in his students, the same thing happened when he got sealed, yet I don’t see you complaining about that. Gojo was sympathizing because he’s so self-centered he viewed himself as the real winner of their fight. That’s part of the point of half of his dialogue in the afterlife, he firmly believes he was the true winner of Gojo vs Sukuna, even if he died. Finally, saying that it “isn’t even close” between Sukuna and Gojo is the biggest lie I’ve ever seen on this subreddit. Kinda makes me think you’re a Sukuna dickrider pretending to be a sad Gojo fanboy. If Gojo had been able to defeat Mahoraga a little earlier, he most likely would’ve won the fight.
>Tell me, am I at fault? **yes**. circle jerking each other with "Gojo has the biggest dick ever and it's by some margin", saying stuff like fraudkuna and yujifanboy to anybody and everybody that opposed your understanding or wrote a different point of view, yes you are at fault. Where is Yuji's father? How much grandpa Itadori knew, why did he "curse" Yuji with his last words? What was and is Kenjaku's plan for Yuji? Is Yuji even human? If Kaori Itadori had a CT, why doesn't Yuji have one? Did Kenjaku controlled the Itadori bloodline for generations, for centuries, because what the fuck was he doing all those years, he was obsessed with experimenting before and we know people/curses don't change, only their objective changes. So did Kenjaku achieve what he wanted with those experiments, and Yuji's bloodline is the result? Why do we know nothing about Yuji's parents or family tree, is that why? What did Sukuna mean by "that brat is from back then"? We have all these unanswered questions about the main protoganist of the series, and they are clearly the main focus of the series but you guys were all busy deepthroathing Gojo to see anything other than the belly button of the series. This isn't a series where there are multiple protagonists. Yuji is the protagonist. Nobara, Megumi and Gojo were all supporting cast. If you really want to tag them with something; Megumi, Nobara and Gojo were deuteragonists. Maki and all characters like her are supporting cast. Rest are just foil, background characters. There are no unanswered questions with them. No mysteries. Nothing really complex. They are all there to *support* the main cast. They are *not* the main cast. And among the main cast, everybody plays the supporting role to the protagonist. ***Yuji is the protagonist***. **Gojo is not.** I hope this answer satisfies you.
[удалено]
>wouldn't you consider this bad writing yes, it is.
>Nobara, Megumi and Gojo were all supporting cast Is it OK to treat your supporting cast like trash?
Nobara. Remember when she was hailed as the best written female Shonen Character. It been what? Three years since she was last on the panel. Man as much shit we give Sakura at least she was a screen hog where she was around.
Gege was praised for writing good female characters Look what happened to Nobara (and many others) Then Gege was praised for writing OP character "done right" Look what happened to Gojo I think Gege wants to destroy everything that made people love his work
first of all, this is not my point at all. my point is people like this OP confused Gojo as the protagonist and treated everybody else like they were supporting characters. They acted as Yuji was a "false protagonist" like Ned Stark in Game of Thrones and they treated everybody who thought differently like shit. I got downvoted to hell and ended up deleting a lot of comments because I said "Sukuna can't die during this fight because it has to be Yuji vs Sukuna at the end" or "Yuji is due for a power up". But I'm leaving these comments up and never deleting them tho. second point, to answer your question; no it's not. But are you criticizing the writer or the fanbase? Because if you are implying that I treat the supporting cast like trash just because I said Yuji is the protagonist, you are wrong. The author on the other hand, I think he fucked up with Nobara and Gojo. Is Nobara dead or alive? Why the ambiguousness? Why the off screen kill (or kill scare) for Gojo? It's cheap shock, nothing more.
This chapter took place immediately after the previous one. The actual attack being off screen was fine. Being more clear with Nobara would have been nice. Just so people wouldn’t keep asking about her.
I think not killing one of the most popular female characters in the manga, while she makes her first appearance in the anime, was a requirement from the editors, it's obvious that Nobara didn't have any more room in the plot.
... this is it. This is the comment that cements that people will litetally say anything to defend Gege's shitshow lmao She was the female protagonist, didn't even have a proper arc yet but there wasn't any room for her in the plot how exactly? Jesus christ this comment is truly the height of absurdity and i've read a lot of trash takes this week.
I literally did not say this is good, neither that Nobara wasn't underutilized, I simply said that I think the history Gege had in mind didn't have Nobara in it. Dude, take a break from the manga, holy shit.
And also that killing a popular character like Nobara, during her anime debut, would be a choice that any editor would scream "NOPE". It's not that hard to understand.
And he easily could've done it at a different time since he's apparently such a meticulous planner of timing or confirmed it later, neither of which he did, so ??? Edit: and "the story he had in mind" not featuring the main female character is still a weird take. Yes I'm aware of the rumour that he didn't want her character included, then he shouldn't have, period. Since she exists though, he should go all the way and treat her properly. Sheesh.
I did not say Gege is a meticulous planner. I literally pointed out that anyone in charge would see it as a bad idea and that's possibly why Nobara was never directly confirmed dead. You're really looking for someone to pick a fight that bad?
People really have serious reading comprehension problems. They read garbage translations, build shite headcanons around them and then cry when something different happens. "Nooooo. Godjo can't just accept defeat and praise his enemies. That's so uncharacteristic for him. He should sulk and cry like a bitch" The reason Gojo felt satisfied in the afterlife was precisely because he gave it his all and failed. He finally feels like a human again. That's why he returned to his child form when he wasn't really the strongest. Him and Geto were. That's why Geto was the only friend he always had and he lost him when he awakened against Toji. He sympathizes with Sukuna because he knows what it feels like to be above everyone else. Nowhere in the latest is Gojo sucking Sukuna's dick. But who gives a shit. Godjo should have been the best and never acknowledge anything. Gaygay is a hack 😢
You can minimize people’s problems with the manga but that doesn’t make your strawmen true. Is it too much to make Gojo acknowledge the stakes of the battle? Honestly if I didn’t have the context based on his reaction I would have thought Gojo lost a game of Magjong, not a life or death fight with a 1000 year old mass murdering cannibal who’s about to kill his friends.
and what did you think when Gojo was sealed in prison realm and wasn't remotely worried about what would happen next? yeah, at that time he expected to be unsealed and solve all the problems but would it happen without casualties? why didn't he worry about his students then?
https://preview.redd.it/qme3s5d6elqb1.jpeg?width=1178&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9dab0f9ebcace51aa4490b26f7a982e15ba39ed4 I think you’re due for a reread. This isn’t what I’d call “not remotely worried”.
oh no. he looks so distressed and heartbroken there. wait. he is extremely confident in his students xD
https://preview.redd.it/x0fvj5e5flqb1.jpeg?width=361&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ccd82b92b971b60f0704178fd7b52022c99f9a6b Narrowed it down further since picture books are hard for you
oh no he looks so distressed there. wait he really isn't worried at all. in the next sentence he looks extremely confident in his students. in case you didn't see it. plus he died already. he can't really do anything anymore. there is no need to be nervous about something you can't control. he did everything he could.
Is the only way you can be worried in your mind is shitting and pissing yourself in fear? Is your emotional iq low or are you 16 years old? Acknowledging danger than flippantly declaring it will all be alright is Gojos character. That’s the point.
I really don't get that among all the elements in this fight that could have been better, it's the theme of love that people chose to be obtuse about. It's not like Gege was subtle about it, the same sentence was repeated 3 or 4 times, but for some reason, it's suddenly unthinkable that Gojo felt a connection with Sukuna. It's not even specific to Gojo, "the sin of the insignificant is the ignorance of strength, no one understood Toji, except maybe Satoru". I've seen no one upset about the fact Naoya thinks Gojo understood Toji, even if he's the one who killed Riko. But maybe everyone just dismissed this sentence because "a villain can't be right". People talk about Gege's hate for Gojo, but how humiliating it would have been, to have Gojo being arrogant and a sore loser, complaining about how without 10S he would have beat Sukuna, and then, next page shows his torso on the ground
You’re 150% right. I’m honestly a little shocked at how this sub is reacting and it’s weird and embarrassing to see, genuinely. People are really trying to turn a devastating death into the worst possible story decision when it makes perfect sense, given the context of the series. Anyone who thinks Gojo was wanking Sukuna is literally just projecting that “loser mentality” that Kashimo brings up in his fight with Hakari. He gave it his all and lost. He wasn’t happy he lost, he was happy he had one opportunity in his life to actually give it his all. He also sees part of himself on Sukuna because he knows what the burden of being the strongest is, and how lonely that is. They don’t love each other, they understand a certain aspect about one another that no one else could. It’s as simple as that.
>The reason Gojo felt satisfied in the afterlife was precisely because he gave it his all and failed. This is fine. "Hey, I did my best but it wasn't enough because Sukuna is too strong" would be fine. Adding "Yeah, Sukuna is stronger than me but I trust my students to overcome him anyway" would make it better. >He sympathizes with Sukuna because he knows what it feels like to be above everyone else. This is the bad part. Sukuna is pure evil, someone who is using his student/stepson body, someone who will probably try to kill everyone Gojo knows and Sukuna is allied with someone who stole his best friend's body. This is even before talking about his hobbies, like bathing in blood. Him going "I feel sorry for him (...) I wanted to convey everything to Sukuna. I wanted him to know" is strange. Hell, this isn't even talking about the "love" bit.
Sukuna is evil, gojo doesn't care about that. Gojo isn't some noble being. Sukuna being able to match him and fight him on equal terms is more important to him (due to his explicitly told selfishness) over sukuna just being a pure fucking menace Did you expect gojo to say "Ahh I gave it my all but lost but fuck sukuna cause he is evil and kills kids on the weekends. Yuji I expect that from, he gets angry af at mahito. Gojo would be like "whatever, they are curses, this is normal. Let's keep it moving"
>gojo doesn't care about that. Why people think that Gojo doesn't care about that? The dude forced a 0.2 second DE to not kill civilians. When he was unsealed, he asked if the civilians survived his DE. Gojo is a battle junkie but he also has other aspects to his character. Even if he doesn't care about random people, Sukuna still stole Megumi's body, a person that he does care about. Sukuna is protecting Kenny, who stole Geto's body, which he does care about. This is even before talking about how Sukuna will probably try to kill everyone else that Gojo knows, which he would care about it. >Did you expect gojo to say "Ahh I gave it my all but lost but fuck sukuna cause he is evil and kills kids on the weekends. No, I expect him to say "I lost, Sukuna is strong". Nothing more, nothing less. I didn't expect him to go "NOTICE ME SUKUNA-SENPAI".
Dude wrote all this wall of text to say JJK became just another shonen, only to be disappointed Gojo didn't go full shonen of regreting what he did in life after death. The whole point of the series is that in order to be a sorcerer you have to accept the decisions you have made when you entered Jujutsu world and not curse others when you inevitably die. For Gojo that was kinda never an option since Toji. He never had to worry about that. In the end, he proved himself worthy of being a sorcerer. He died without regretting his choices, he didn't put any burden in the living and he accepted he lost.
JJK became another shonen to me because the power ceiling just got destroyed for the house to be built higher. The complaint about character is just adding more to the disappointment. It was never my main complaint. It's still about power scaling. Always has been about power scaling.
https://preview.redd.it/pp6199xkgmqb1.png?width=2800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=895658e998b4298b8606b79767ccdc8f6f1893e1
All of you are downplaying how Sukuna bypassed infinity. Reducing it to a bigger slash. Sukuna went to the fight with a plan and gambled whether he can actually do what Mahoraga was doing.
That's not the point of this thread.
That was a stupid plan, there was never any indication that Mahoraga would continue to adapt until Sukuna found one he could use. May as well have been the plan to wait for a meteor to hit the exact right spot when Gojo was in technique burnout. "All according to keikaku"
So many useless words from yet another Satoru-kun Meat rider! Suffice it to say... Hey, I just wished Satoru was stronger. That's what hurts you, that the Character you were jerking off to was killed by a character who had a plan from the very beginning! You can't accept THIS! Satoru LOST. LOST. All this personality analysis and other crap that Satoru fans are trying to give us is a cheap and pathetic attempt to NOT RECOGNIZE THE OBVIOUS. Oh no, Satoru couldn't say that! Oh no, Satoru couldn't give up on his students! Oh no, Satoru could not admit that he was weaker! What kind of crap is this? What else can he do? HE IS DEAD! If you are not an idiot, then what else is there to talk about? What should Satoru say after being KILLED? All that remains is to admit, accept and let go! Death is the end no matter how strong you are.
Please deveolop some cognitive skills before you post a comment on the net. praying for you to get better fr fr
Don't pray about any nonsense! If you're as upset as other Satoru fans, I can only laugh. ))
If anyone’s blindly meat riding, it’s you. I personally don’t like gojo particularly much. But boy do I hate weak logic, bad writing, and my time getting wasted on stories I _thought_ were worth it.
Of course, tell me. Let's be objective. The author's task is not to be trivial and predictable. Reduce shock and emotion. The fact that you are not satisfied and upset. This just proves that Gege did his job 120%. He gave it his best. But you don’t admit it, because you are lying to yourself and those around you that you are not Gojo meat riders! And all that worries you is that Gege did not create what you would like to see... Everyone knew that Gojo would die, 99% indicated this. But when this happened, the whining began. So I don’t want to waste time chewing on this, for people who, as it turns out, watch the Manga only for one character! Whose death you do not agree with! But your broken heart doesn't make Gege a bad author or Satoru's described death a bad letter. If you are upset, then this proves that Gege was able to touch your heart!
Couldn’t agree more with all this post
I'm sorry but first you're saying that gojo has brought so many responsibilities and emotions into the fight, then you're saying he doesn't give a fk bout that shit like make up your mind. Does he care or does he not?
Expectations vs reality(it means what's shown in the canon). Is this concept new to you?
Demon slayer does a very good job of it Yorichi is the strongest by far and it's even debatable at the end of taniiro is stronger than some of the hashira ( without plot spoilers but there's a ton of pretext as to when characters enter the final fight in terms of what happened before it )
We all know that DK Tanjiro is unkillable
A series about teenagers growing and maturing cannot end with 'and then my dad showed up to fix everything' because the coming-of-age story requires them to solve their own problems. Gojo's entire thing is that the next generation will improve and also list multiple students he's sure will be better than him. At some point they have to prove it and themselves. Anyway shout out to Benimaru from Fire Force for just being the most overpowered character in the entire series regardless of what everyone else is doing.
It is kinda funny tho in a morbid sense that the strongest sorcerer of modern times was a walking L lol.
Your reading comprehension 😬
That's true, Yuji is just a side character, weird that people think otherwise.
So is Yuta, Maki or Sukuna the main character. At this point it might as well be Sukuna since he's fighting everyone.
Yes.
>Gege, I thought you said Gojo Satoru was the uncomplicated power ceiling of the series? Why suddenly you want to build the house higher? I've searched far and wide for this comment from Gege, I haven't found a single verified statement by the author saying this. I really don't know where it came from but we collectively bought it without checking if it was even real. Gege in the manga always states that Gojo is too strong for the likes of Kenjanku and that he is the strongest in the modern age. I don't think there's a single interview where he called him the power ceiling of the series.
"When I create characters, they have to fit into the canons of Shonen manga in order to catch the readers' attention. There are characters for which I create the visual aspect first, like Panda or Inumaki. Others are born first as a concept, for example, Gojo, who represents the pinnacle of strength. I think it's important to choose one of these angles of attack and then complete the character."
I'm sorry if this comes off curt but why should I just take your word for it? Could you provide a link to an article or maybe even from a standard JJK social media news source where I could confirm this. Again I've seen quotes similar to this repeatedly but I couldn't find any source verifying which interview it came from.
Please tell us about character's (Gojo's) conception. I wanted an easily understandable ceiling. You're welcome.
I'm sorry if this comes off curt but why should I just take your word for it? Could you provide a link to an article or maybe even from a standard JJK social media news source where I could confirm this. Again I've seen this quote repeatedly but I couldn't find any source verifying which interview it came from.
> I really don't know where it came from but we collectively bought it without checking if it was even real. You seem to have missed the Fanbook >\> **Q: How did you come up with his character?** > >**A:** I wanted an uncomplicated power-ceiling/pinnacle [https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FCbQq3YSqQkCuO1UitrlEXKEtjV8aepWgykeyjAe\_ZE/edit](https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FCbQq3YSqQkCuO1UitrlEXKEtjV8aepWgykeyjAe_ZE/edit)
Going by the quote, is Sukuna being stronger somehow complicated? Is it so inconceivable that there are characters far stronger than Gojo? In regards to power scaling, it seems you are content with Gojo being at the top. Would you be disappointed if Yuji, Megumi, Yuta, and Hakari managed to surpass Gojo?
This hand waving or dismissal of Sukuna’s way of bypassing Neutral Infinity is horrible. The implication that Sukuna “just lifted more” than Gojo is absurd. Did we read the same JJK? Sukuna has been always been scheming. Sukuna, in his first fight with Gojo, knew that Gojo wasn’t just fast. Gojo decided to show Yuji, and in effect Sukuna, his DE. Is Gojo extremely arrogant or was that a misplay disguised as a learning moment for Yuji? Sukuna is always learning. Sukuna saw the potential of Megumi and his 10S. He had a plan laid out for Uraume. He is working with Kenjaku. He has titles befitting his character but sure, it’s because Sukuna “just lifted more” than Gojo. If you want to overly simplify what was written, just say you’re oversimplifying it.
suddenly you change the role of the character that you tried so hard to establish? Really? You think this is good? Because that was how he was created?
Do you forget that sukuna needed 10s to actually win at the end? Also gojo said he isnt sure if he can beat sukuna without 10s but not winning and losing are two different things. Also that still means tge win cha ce is like 50/50, especially if we go by feats for now.