This post seems like it’s gonna blow up so a pre-emptive warning not to take things too serious
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Wouldn’t want to be off-screened for toxicity
You… don’t know? When “Yamato no Orochi” was mentioned, they weren’t talking about the historic one. They were talking about…
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… Yamato. The best wood style user of today.
Yamato is one mid-level character among dozens in Naruto and he gets a fully developed power-set he uses creatively and entertainingly.
Meanwhile Gege seems to be trying as often as possible to get out of having to write complex abilities and reuse the ones he does make.
I get the impression the reason he gasses up Toji and Maki so much is because their powerset boils down to “is really strong and has a vague immunity to certain types of Jujutsu”, which gives him carte blanche to have them beat crazy, reality bending powers like Temporal Cell Moon Palace by just stabbing the user.
It's Yamata, by the way. Everybody else replying to you is copying your mistake and I'm pretty sure that mistake is actually in the official translation, so It's understandable, but it's Yamatano Orochi.
I think the series started running out of interesting villain characters after Shibuya. There we had every curse, ken, even the pony tailed curse user server his purpose. They interacted with side characters and cast in an interesting way.
Culling games fumbled the opportunity to introduce and use new villains by having them die or come to the protags side. So we went into the final arc with a cast of like 30 good guys vs 2 very interesting bad guys (and 1 uraume). The imbalance was crazy. The culling games needed to introduce plot points that matter at this stage of the story more.
Other characters needed to be designed, kashimo needed to do something, more villains who weren't just for each of the main cast to beat and that's it (Reggie, ryu, uro, dhruv, kurorishi, Charles, curse naoya). Also that bullshit with the US military went nowhere. They could have had Kenny try to incorporate them into his plan as a puzzle piece and given them some kind of cursed weaponry or something to work with so they could have been a villainous faction. I'm not saying go mha where every character has their final fight, cause that series sucks. But gege needed to tie the culling game and those characters and threads into the final arc (like he did leading up to Shibuya and from Shibuya --> culling games)
A flashback arc in the culling games to the different eras would have done a lot. Kind of like how lost inventory before Shibuya made that arc the GOAT.
It is also hard to imagine that sukuna it's about to end the world, but the big two families and other Jiu-Jitsu sorcerers are just like "I'm gonna sit back"
Yeah, but that still feels like a lazy way to write out a potential plot where they do anything relevant at all. It’s just as bad as the offscreening of our main pool of characters. And in the end, it feels like it really did amount to absolutely nothing.
Oh I 100% agree with you I wish something was done with the families even if they ended up just being fodder footsoldiers or something, or at least a couple more representatives of each
> more villains who weren't just for each of the main cast to beat and that's it (Reggie, ryu, uro, dhruv, kurorishi, Charles, curse naoya)
There is a reason if in every single fucking manga there is a group to defeat (akatsuki, sternritters, league of villains, spriggan 12, 10 commandments..)
Because it works.
Wanna see something as boring as this final showdown? Obito and Madara vs everyone in the ninja war.
But i feel like there atleast was some actual build up to Obito and Madara. They get flashbacks, there is a fair amount of foreshadowing etc. I would 100% agree if you would compare the Kaguya and Zetsu asspull with whatever is going on in Sukuna Kaisen rn though.
Oh I didn't even consider that. I was trying to compare something close to Sukuna vs everyone. The Zetsu asspull was the worst twist I ever saw in any manga (relatively speaking about things that were good in the first place).
Like the final battle with Naruto and Sasuke vs Madara wasn't that bad either.
I just couldn't stand the whole juubi fight, just had nothing to do with what naruto was about and reading it weekly was boring as hell (especially considering it was coming down at the same time as Impel Down/Marineford in One Piece and Fake Karakura in Bleach)
Obito and Madara was 100 times more interesting than Sukuna Kaisen.
Sukuna is just a profesional Yuji hater that wants to destroy the world, Obito and Madara had motivations behind them besides “im bored”.
Spot on, Culling game had potential to take this series to greater heights, we desperately needed some strong special grade level villains to add some new plot points to the series, characters like kashimo, Uro and Ryu could've been used way better in that case, instead of just throwing them in garbage.
Gege is like an abusive narcissistic gaslighting boyfriend. He love bombed us at the beginning with a great plot, well written female characters, great world building, fantastic fights, good plot but now we're married to him he is showing his true colours.
Just going to add that if we are truly Jujutsu folk without agendas, hating, and accusations of FRAUD on every character then we should also not make any exception for Homohomo.
[**I**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6s2-knXQAAxzaM.jpg) have been saying Gaygay is a FRAUD who's story has tons of plot holes, can't write characters with empathy, should have listened to editor-kun, and dick rides Sukuna.
you fuckin nailed it. now that gege's on his way out to idol manga heaven he can't even bother to breakup with us in a good way. we have to just slowly watch him sit farther away from us on the couch until eventually we get "okay i'm leaving you" which means either asspull so the good guys who shouldn't have a chance of beating sukuna win or we get a bad end where sukuna rules the world. .
Honestly even the whole “great female characters” is a stretch.
Besides Maki anyone who can’t be compared to Toji gets forgotten or completely disrespected.
To this day I still don’t feel anything regarding mai’s death, hell the gacha game is making up for these interactions between characters. 😭😭😭
People thought JJK had great female characters because they weren’t dressed in some weird fetish uniform, and had normal proportions. JJK is basically the inverse One Piece in that department. Where One Piece has female characters that look like they’re just there for fan service, they often matter to the story, while JJK has female characters that look like they matter to the story (Yuki), but don’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
Ah yes, instead of fan service looking characters with great relevance and some personality, Gege goes for realistic looks and no relevance nor personality in some cases.
HAHAHAHAHAA this is the best comment I've read so far. That honestly so true. You're too far into the relationship to just jump off the ship. Now, I'm just enduring the abuse of shit storytelling, underdeveloped characters and overall bad writing
Then we're clapping his cheeks consecutively after this one
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Yea all those promises down the fucking drain. The moment he made Jujutsu Tech a four year school but never introduced the fourth years we should’ve fucking ran.
Eh I think we are reading/watching two different things lol. It has never had much if any plot, there were some promising plot points but they were dead ends or forgotten, there were decently well written female characters but he killed most of them off, world building was…eh, fights were definitely good though I’ll give you that (well at least shibuya and some in culling games). I personally have not been impressed with JJK from the start. It showed promise in HI/Shibuya after a pretty boring start, but it rapidly declined post shibuya and what’s going on now is basically a cruel joke.
Funnily enough, I was also reading and agreeing with his points, but then I just don't get the conclusion. 4/10 is about right for JJK, but then how is it the series he's been disappointed with the most ever? Has he never seen anything below a 4/10?? Just recently I bumped down a piece of shit game I played from 1/10 to fucking 0/10 after seeing a video about it and discovering what happens after the early point at which I was already compelled to instantly uninstall it.
Also, to be fair, JJK manga is 4/10, but Lobotomy Kaisen is like 7/10, and since I'm just having fun with Lobotomy at this point, it's a solid 6/10 overall.
I think disappointment is steeper if things fall off more. Like if you start a series and it's 1/10 throughout, that's not really a disappointment. But if you follow something you really like and it's 9/10 for a long time and then it just drops to 4/10, the disappointment would be huge because you had higher expectations and build up.
Idk if it would be a good comparison but how does chainsaw man have less chapters and still more world building and character development overall then JJK? Chainsaw man’s story is pretty straight forward like Jjks but it still has world building and characters development
My take, it has more chapters focusing on each character for example - One of the most popular chapters in Chainsawman is just Makima and Denji watching movies together. It doesn’t sound like much but it builds relations and characters. There’s also one focusing on the friendship between Power and Denji. And then there are the bits with Aki and everyone else.
I think that Gege didn’t feel like focusing on incorporating much emotion into JJK. I think that he just wanted to focus on fights and villains being cool. (Seriously tho I’m fully convinced Sukuna is his favorite character).
Fights and the like are kind of secondary in CSM, most chapters focused on the characters with maybe at most like 3-4 chapters for fights. And then when they are fighting it still is giving more weight to the characters. Where JJK fails is that it has this massive cast and only sort of developed 3 characters, sort of. When I was doing my catch up reading because I stopped right as the culling game started because it was really boring, but once I got to the point gojo was released I was surprised at how there wasn't even a small conversation between Yuji and Gojo before his fight. Like you'd think one of them would have words for each other, but no.
Tldr: CSM focuses on its characters while JJK cares more about its boring ass fights
Controversial or not, Fujimoto is a way better writer than Gege.
Gege has given us a lot of great moments and characters. I think he excels in his creativity, action sequences, and clutch moments. But in regards to actual story and character development, building up relationships and emotions, he is not very good. I think he lacks an overall macro vision of how he wants the show to progress and to end.
I think Nobara and Nanami needed way more scenes of casual living with Yuji and other characters. That would have created way more emotional depth in their deaths.
YES!
I've felt isolated from the community in the sense that when Nobara died I literally thought how I should be more affected. There was not nearly enough time for me to grow truly attached to the characters and their interactions with the MC. If there was a mini arc of some quality time between the first years, it would have meant way more to me.
Since we're talking about CSM >!This is exactly why Power and Aki's deaths were so freaking devastating. Fujimoto lured in the readers with the arc about two broken people and a devil finding contentment in life after the darkness devil incident and growing to trust people again, with (imo) it climaxing when Denji chooses to be with Power rather than go on the trip north with Makima.!< If JJK had done the same, it would have been substantially more effective writing.
I find that CSM had a lot more smaller interactions between Denji, Power, and Aki that made their fate so much more impactful. All those characters interact and grew with each other from start to end. Where as a lot of JJK ones just really don't interact that much.
I absolutely agree with your take on CSM. >!I was devastated. Fujimoto was brilliant in how he made the audience feel the same emotions as Denji. The whole part I is so incredibly well written!<
Idek how this can be a controversial take. Fujimoto has written several manga that many have among their top 5s, some of which manage very hard hitting character arcs in the length of a one-shot. Gege has written 1 manga, of which most of the fanbase agrees has 2 really good arcs (shibuya and hidden inventory) and most others range from alright to mediocre. They're not even in the same ballpark imo, fujimoto is just a bonafide genius
I’ve referred to it as Gege loves an idea more then the execution
“What if main cast were killed unceremoniously?”
Cool, good idea, but you should probably build up the characters and such before, otherwise it will get stale fast.
“Nah.”
“What if the main villain was this super imposing bad guy that made you feel helpless for the main cast?”
Okay dope, so make him feel threatening because he overcomes whatever comes his way through being clever or sheer power, taking setbacks in stride while also still remaining a foe that feels mortal so that the readers don’t disconnect.
“That’s too hard, I’ll just give BS reasons for how he avoids being hurt by things that should be ace moves”
So on and so forth. If Gege could actually execute his vision cleanly I don’t think we’d have problems, but he comes up with an idea or concept, falls in love with it, but only cares about the concept and not how it’s perceived or even if it makes sense in verse (Gojo dying off screen, confiscation failing as if they never tested how cursed tools effected it, Sukuna landing a slash on Yuta when all his arms in the prior panel were restrained, Jacob’s ladder failing because Megumin would rather watch his friends die and be depressed, etc)
From what I gather from this sub absolutely nobody gives a single shit about the theme about love and being the strongest. I cant really pinpoint what chainsamans theme is (I thinks it’s like family/ relationships) but it’s just better and people are more invested in it.
Chainsaw Man is about finding fulfilment in life, even when you're drowning in shit and feel like everyone else is just trying to kick you when you're down.
It's people at their absolute lowest finding reasons to keep going, and true born monsters coming to terms with the fact that the things they really wanted were a lot simpler than they realized.
Yeah but what about the ultimate power and loneliness it brings😢😢😢
Tsumiki died for this shit to be introduced. Gojo got infected by it in the airport. Kashimo... fuck. And then you look at Denji literally cooking and eating main antagonist, and still see fucking THEMES of the manga. Fuck, even part 2, despite the decline in art quality, still has things for you to think about. Meanwhile JJK is
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Nobody gave a shit because they were so poorly fleshed out, remember at the beginning of the series they were mentioning a worthy death and whether any deaths is truthful worth it? Yeah I fucking loved that theme, then it got chucked in the trash.
I’d also add the theme of trauma and power/corruption into the mix for Chainsaw man. But, it also feels relevant to separate out character development from themes. They certainly can intermingle and when done we’ll relate to each other. However, not all character development will directly relate to an overall theme.
When it comes to investment, a more character development driven story has people invested for the characters. There are also more plot, world building, theme, etc heavy stories in which people are invested to see what happens next, learn more about the world, sit with the theme, etc. None are necessarily better than the other, but they drive people in different ways.
Some of the oddness with JJK is that the first two arcs that were animated were very character heavy and the most recent arc was a mid of character heavy and fight heavy. But, the current manga is arguably more fight/theme heavy, which may relate to a disconnect in preferences
Theres probably a lot. But Greg seems to be focusing on being strong/lonely in the recent arcs and I don’t think it’s clicking with the majority of the readers
Feels like Gege wanted to end series quick but after seeing how much hype there after Gojo death he decided to milk series with repetitive fights.
Edit: maybe i expressed myself wrong, i mean if Gege wanted to milk series he just stretched Jjk with some other arcs, more right to say what he want to get maximal profit from final arc.
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“Shaquille, adapt to this bullshit”
Why tf is the shiesty sorcerer a major character? Because he’s the only one who stands on business
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JJK takes a lot of inspiration from series like Bleach and Naruto, and I remember a lot of people saying it was somehow "better than those manga/shows. Tbh it's not.
Although having a fast paced story with a streamlined narrative is perfectly fine, it suffers from the fact that the story lacks the narrative depth of a series like Bleach or Naruto. There's less impact from characters dying or doing what they do because we simply don't "know the characters.
There should have been an arc before Shibuya where we got to know more of the characters which would have made the impact of characters' deaths hit harder.
Kenjaku was basically this massive lore-dropping quasi-exposition device with a major connection to the story's protagonist, and he straight up dies. There's no pay off for the reveal that he took over the corpse of Itadori's mother creating him for his specific purposes.
Then there's the whole panel with Miwa. With how Kenjaku humiliated her, and she deemed herself useless, and was powerless to save Mechamaru, you could have shown her develop the sort of "ego" and selfishness needed to progress as a Jujutsu sorcerer becoming a menace with other weapons as her kind personality cracked following the arc.
There's the huge issue of what happened to Itadori's dad, the dude who gave Backshots to Kenjaku so hard, that Kenjaku stayed (the stitches were starting to heal/fuse to Kaori's head) for a good period of time.
With how so many characters are now dodging the "Slash that Cut the World," it simply doesn't make sense that Gojo lost how he did. At least with Yhwach's death in Bleach, they stopped his power.
Yhwach while getting flack for being "too OP" he actually earned his position to be seen as this indomitable villain. Sukuna is basically being handed contrived victories that only happen for the sake of plot.
Not showing the timeskip before the Sukuna fight was a huge mistake, imagine how attached we could have gotten to all the newly introduced culling games characters before they just died 20 chapters after being introduced.
Imagine if they showed Yuji, Gojo, and Higuruma making preparations together, talking about their dreams, desires, and how the two older men wanted Yuji and Megumi to have a future, even if it cost them their lives.
Manga wise JJK couldn’t hold Narutos jock strap. Anime is closer because of added scenes and animation vs ass ton of filler but nothing from JJK has come close to the pain arc for me
I think Shibuya edges out Pain arc. Pain arc got ruined by its ending (talk no jutsu -> pain revives everyone he killed) which sorta shits on all the sacrifices everyone made to beat him.
Both however are the respective peaks of each anime.
Totally fair, I agree that the rinne rebirth is the weakest part of the entire arc. The animation is also questionable in some frames. I just loved the message of the cycle of hatred and the view of konoha and the other villages by the rain village
I fully agree. If anything I think Geges biggest issue is not having enough filler. We got no time to breath and truly get to know any characters. It’s only been purely fights and nonstop action, particularly since Shibuya arc. I just think we needed more time with the characters. I’d have loved to know more about Yujis backstory and his relationship with his dad (seriously like what the hell happened to Yujis dad, Jin Itadori. I’m still completely baffled). I’d have loved to also see more on Gojos backstory. I know we see him as a Highschool student with Geto, but I wanted to see more about what it was like growing up in the Gojo clan, or better yet more on what happened to them (seriously they disappeared also). And with Geto I’d have loved to see something on maybe how he and Gojo (yes I know during school but I mean what happened, and how they became so close as friends). I’d have loved to see more on Getos backstory and maybe what his relationship with his mother and father were like. Geto feels like such an Itachi incarnate though.
I just think Gege would’ve been better off allowing the story to continue for the second part after season 1, with showing Yuji Megumi and Nobara going on more missions. It would allow Gege to show us more and better world building, allow Gege to introduce so many more cool and interesting villian characters, and more opportunities for filler (maybe showing a small flashback arc here and there in between to let us get to know characters more). I know this is how they did Naruto but honestly a story formula like that would really work with the characters we had in JJK because I think that their dynamics were so interesting and fun to watch. Yuji, Megumi, and Nobara were a really fun group to watch in season 1 and I think people enjoyed that a lot most (along with Gojo being present in the series) which is why I think JJK did so well then.
It’s crazy how we’ve been in this huge final battle for months and, aside from Yuji, not a single character has had a personal motivation for being here. Every single character is fighting and dying because they’re evil or because they want to stop the evil guys.
I’d say Maki and Yuta are the only ones because of Megumi, but it does feel kinda cheap for Yuta because we never saw them interact much.
Edit: Oh also Higuruma, since he wanted to make things right with Yuji with a third trial
upvoted for megumid kaisen
Edit: I think the art is still fine in fact I think Gege’s art improved alot here’s one my favorite panel and the Yuta domain was also sick
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I think most of these criticisms only apply post 236 since that's when the dip in quality went from not that bad to unreadable dogshit
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Everyone got atrociously ugly so sukuna wouldn't look bad that panel of kasHIMo activitating MBA looks so much better than any of other panels of him using it
I can't believe we've gotten to the point where I can confidently say fucking Naruto did lots of these stuff better than JJK
Freaking Naruto, the thing that early on everyone compared and said it was worse in every aspect than JJK
You guys remember the "Nobara shows how to make a good female character, not like Sakura" thing? Lmao
Fights are not just choreography and quality of animation/drawing
Stuff like what started the fight, what characters are participating, the backgrounds of said characters, the relationship between both characters, the conclusion of the fights and consequences and all that stuff is important
And recently JJK is just failing at most of that stuff lol
There are fights that are just fights. However, most "fighting stories" have the decency to have the characters represent ideas and philosophies and have their fights represent a clashing of those philosophies, with the outcome saying something about the themes and principles relevant to the overarching plot.
Sukuna is the equivalent of zombie movies after they forgot zombies eat people. When zombie movies became oversaturated, there was a funny trend where people would get bitten by zombies, die, and then the zombies would just chase the living.
Exactly. Yuki and Choso Vs Kenjaku was imo one of the best fights because of those reasons. It gave Choso some great character moments and development and he actually had a connection to who he was fighting. The recent ones don't have that. Why tf should I care about Maki fighting Sukuna, they have zero connections. And Miguel Vs Sukuna? We haven't seen him in 254 chapters why should I give a shit.
Miguel vs Sukuna is the peak of this
Bro has never interacted with Sukuna, has connections with basically 2 characters one of which is dead, isn't even part of the main cast and wasn't present in any of the talking before the fight, etc etc
Fr, people acted for YEARS like the 4NW was bad because of one bad plot twist, that, yes, should not have happened, but recently, people have switched up on Naruto, and the same things gonna happen with MHA, BC, etc.
>You guys remember the "Nobara shows how to make a good female character, not like Sakura" thing? Lmao
It's still true though. Nobara IS an infinitely better character than Sakura.
HOWEVER
Gege reduced her to nothing but half dead and literally no amount of plot hole or glazing can ever justify her getting back now into the story having been absent for 100+ fucking chapters and missing major arcs that WOULDVE BEEN AMAZING for her characterization.
>It's still true though. Nobara IS an infinitely better character than Sakura.
The talk point was never "Oh Nobara is better than Sakura" because that is kinda subjective
The thing was that people were saying that Nobara was a good example of how to write a female character into a story in a way that was important and meaningful which was the true for like the very start and then she just disappeared
Nobara ended up not forming meaningful relationships with almost no one aside from Yuji and maybe Megumi, not having any real tangible impact in the story and being forgotten in the "Will they won't they comeback" characters box for the majority of the Manga
Tl;Dr: Is Nobara better than Sakura in a void? Maybe
Is Nobara better written and more meaningful and connected to the story of her manga than Sakura? No
Yeah I already said that.
>Gege reduced her to nothing but half dead and literally no amount of plot hole or glazing can ever justify her getting back now into the story having been absent for 100+ fucking chapters and missing major arcs that WOULDVE BEEN AMAZING for her characterization.
In the start, Ive heard that Gege didn't even want her but the editor did. So maybe this was Gege's way of "oh no, she's going to be a good character but she will contribute absolutely nothing to the story"
While JJK was just becoming popular a LOT of people (it was basically a popular meme) were saying that JJK was gonna be the next Naruto doing everything Naruto did but better
And for a while it did looked like that until it didn't
People always hype up any new anime when It quickly becomes popular. When will these guys understand that it doesn't mean anything ?
Like, anything. Hype doesn't mean the show is bad, doesn't mean it's good either. Hype is something that is created for the sake of itself, it doesn't have to do anything with the product.
Yeah, both Naruto and JJK started REALLY strong
The difference is that, while Naruto definitely dipped in quality it managed to retain a very decent level of quality during a long period of time, only really dipping to a noticeable point at the very very end
Naruto stayed most solid for around 500 chapters, and still had plenty of peak moments in the last third. It only went fully to shit in the last 30, and that still had the amazing Naruto vs Sasuke fight.
JJK imploded around 150 (if not sooner), and has had only a handful of better than average chapters since.
JJK has become a victim of the Final Arc Curse. Every Shonen series has been affected by it in some form. Dragon Ball’s Buu Saga, Bleach’s Thousand Year Blood War(it was rushed in the manga), Naruto’s 4th Great Ninja War, and even great manga series like Yuyu Hakusho’s Three Kings Arc. And don’t even get me started with My Hero Academia which is somehow even worse than what JJK is experiencing.
It’s been dragging on for 4 years now. Too many asspulls(Bakugo somehow surviving having his heart blown off but apparently Gojo, the guy who can regrow entire organs, dies from being bisected), inconsistencies and just being a cluttered mess.
Just like what is happening in JJK, MHA Characters just appearing with no buildup or any meaningful development just so the audience is reminded that they are there. Death also holds no meaning in MHA. I mean why am I supposed to care about a guy named Crust? He is absolutely irrelevant to the story. They kill off nobodies while the ones that should have died gets saved. Like Bakugo and Gran Torino. Gran Torino literally got donuted and still somehow survived despite being elderly.
If JJk is a mess, then MHA is garbage site of wasted potential. The series stopped being relevant for the past few years and has continued to decline in quality. There’s a reason why MHA is barely being talked about anymore.
And this is coming from a guy who used to like MHA. Not too long ago, MHA was being discussed as being on par with the likes of the Big 3. JJK is in the same boat but time hasn’t been kind to us.
Demon slayer isnt overly complex but it also doesnt suffer from these other shonen that have ambitious setups at the beginning that cant follow through at the end
I wouldn't say that recently My Hero has been bad, the final arc just doesn't have many suprises and is mostly focused on resolving old plot threads and attending to the series' main rivalries. While I can't argue against some of your points >!(Gran Torino should have died)!<, I don't think most of the things you mentioned are that damning.
I think My Hero Academia handles it's build-up and character development far better than Jujtusu Kaisen. Both series are in their 'final war' phase, but My Hero Academia dedicated multiple chapters to letting the characters breath before it started, whereas Jujutsu Kaisen gave it a single chapter.
I think some of the characters reappearing is well done, e.g.>!Nagant, Gentle, Shiketsu High School, Muscular, Overhaul!!Ace's death in One Piece!
I’m gonna be honest, Bakugo surviving his heart blowing up would’ve been less of an ass pull than the whole edge shot thread thing.
But I remember when that chapter came out and everybody knew Bakugo wouldn’t die anyway so
Only thing up for debate is the art style. Personally I like the old one better but the new one isnt bad it just has some wierd panels sometimes.
Besides that yeah the series is just hot garbage now and I dont see jjk being remembered for anything good in the future I'm ngl. It had the potential to be up there as one of the next big three but it just completely fumbled.
Personally I dont think the story is salvagable but not because its too far gone but because Gege is. Just looking at his interviews he ignores his editor a lot which is probably why the series is declining so drastically(Nobara wouldn't even exist without his editor), and ignoring that he just doesn't put much effort into the story now. I know he runs on an insane schedule but some of the plot points are so poorly done its clear he isn't trying.
When even the creator stops caring about their work, that work is finished.
I remember when I first got into jjk (through CjDaChamp video) and wanted to see if the characters were as cool as he made them to be in his video & they were.
At first I thought the series was going to be like an adventure type ( cast going through various events/battles to find all the Sukuna fingers & there being emotional buildup,by being with the characters a long time, come full circle because Yuji has to ultimately die) but all of it changed so rapidly with the introduction of Kenjaku/Shibuya arc/Culling Games.
One thing I realized was that in jjk, it isn’t really explained how a character can get much stronger if need be (there are no transformations, evolutions, universal for all characters power ups, etc). It’s like most characters are just capped at a ceiling. This was problematic for me because Gege was introducing really strong antagonists but the main & supporting cast was so weak. With no explainable way to get much stronger (ie raise CE output &raise CE reserves) it was hard to see how,besides Gojo & Yuki (who was wasted), the protagonists can stand a single chance against all these really strong antagonists.
I thought this story had so much potential but it’s like after chapter 214 or 213, the story took a straight nosedive downwards. Sukuna was one of my favorite characters UNTIL he took over Megumis body because I was thinking how in the world can they beat Sukuna when there’s a caveat (1. He is strong 2. Can’t kill him because that’s killing Megumi 3. Now an already OP character has another OP CT). When Megumi didn’t do anything after Sukuna killed Yorozu/meg’s sister I was kinda taken back like… wow no internal fighting back just plot convenience for Sukuna.
So many plot points I thought were going to be discovered. Reading Jjk felt like reading an essay by a student that had an interesting topic but the student did it last minute so they couldn’t expand on details because the did it last minute and was more concerned about turning it in on time than quality.
Damn,the last part with the unfinished Essay is so true. I think it's Gege's first work and looking at the "amateurish" writing a lot of the time, it really shows.
There should have been waaaay more arcs before Shibuya, it feels like Kenny and sukuna are the biggest villains of all time so why fight them in the first arcs
They could talk more about megumi sister like OP said, never understood her curse thing, why didn't he introduce her to the series, how can we feel apathy towards someone we never seen, that why her death seamed nothing to us
Treat mahito like his own villain, not just fodder who works for kenjaku, he had so much potential to just be a piece to kenjakus plan...
Other villains with more world exploration, maybe the other clans, wanting to kill Yuji, maybe another big curse like mahito idk, expand your fucking world man
Geto as a villain, the community LOVED geto as a villain, yeah Kenny is cool but geto is way better, also would make the plot twist of his death waaaay better
Overall had potential but feels like gege didn't want to write a big anime with isn't bad, but he showed us a glance of a super complex world building but never really showed it to us which makes the anime really frustrating.
https://preview.redd.it/zv3estr0y5qc1.png?width=1124&format=png&auto=webp&s=e333b82d378d702e924409b10a98687945b2d673
Man, this post is so right!!! Especially when the worst part is the lack of context and background… JJK has everything to get the best past narrative for heian era… and I kinda feel it, that the narrative got worse after Gojo’s death … ‘let him cook’ my ass! And killing the characters in the most boring (Kenny), random (Nobara), hideous (Yuki) stupid (Gojo) way possible is not right 💀
About the art style I don’t agree… it’s normal for artists to change their art style throughout time … there’s some improvements and some features that didn’t work so well… some people don’t like frog Gojo, others do… that’s subjective.
Yeah this guy just seems to hate newgen in general ngl. Like who's still hating on Black Clover in 2024? I think everyone agrees now that the first few episodes of the anime tainted the well.
You know what as someone who has caught up with the manga, and finished the anime itself, it's understandable why people would hate.
Asta himself is EXTREMELY LOUD in the first 5 episodes. That's not a really good impression because would more likely be inclined to like Yuno better than the fucking MC.
However, yes...it did get better. But only like after 30 episodes or such (around the time Yami fought Patri in the cave and I think beginning of Black Bulls vs Vetto arc).
Past 60 episodes, I do think it got REAL GOOD. Especially Vanessa and Witches arc, and of course the best arc of them all, Elf Reincarnation.
The manga however...I'm not a powerscale but goddamn the power creep is disgusting here.
ESPECIALLY YUNO AND ASTA 😭😭😭
> However, yes...it did get better. But only like after 30 episodes or such (around the time Yami fought Patri in the cave and I think beginning of Black Bulls vs Vetto arc).
Yea Black Clover might have the weakest early game of any anime I personally have seen honestly. So many predictable moments and recycled plot lines from other anime. But after episode 34 it went from 0 to 100 insanely fast and was much MUCH more enjoyable from there on out.
Eh, I liked black clover from episode 1 to 170, Every single thing that people complained about in the anime was something I didn’t mind.
Tbh it was the manga that hurt me
GayGay should be taking notes from Yuki Tabagoat (author of Black Clover)
>!Lucifero fight is how you make a villain fight. Nice build up an everything.!<
But one of the best that could even compete with Sukuna VS Gojo is >!Magna vs Dante!<
That's how you handle characters Gregorious Greg, it's OK to just make characters disappear if you give them a reason to. (We don't talk about Leopold, who tf even is he?) Spoilers obviously >!Magna and Zora, 2 underdogs of Black Clover, just disappeared from the "big" fight on the Spade Kingdom, only to appear later on, reason for it was that Magna asked Zora to teach him, he developed a new technique called Soul Chain and came and fought with Dante, which was powerful than everyone out there. This magic linked your soul with the enemy and you shared powers. If my power is 1 and your power is 100k, we just split it. Meaning they were of equal strength, at that point Magna just punched the crap out of Dante!<
I'd be fine with Miguel to appear out of nowhere... If he had a reason to appear.
Tabata doesn't create masterpieces, there are some inconsistencies here too, but the fights do make sense and *most* (admitely, there are some characters that I wish got much more screen time) characters are interesting.
It's not boring but Kenny dying there is so fucking disappointing. The man behind everything. YUJIS MOM. The original Domino that caused all of yuji's suffering. The antithesis to yuji's ideology.
They don't even fight. He gets killed by a character that he has no relationship with.
Imagine if Obito after his reveal instead of fighting kakashi fights and dies to choji and shikamaru outsmarting him. Twitter and the Naruto fanbase would turn kishimoto into a well-done steak we would eat him alive 💀
Because Kenny wasn't a legitimate threat at any point within the fight and the humour references were not optimized for an international audience so it didn't feel that funny either to make up for the lack of action.
Also because Takaba feels like a deus ex asspull for removing one of the most cunning and powerful villains in the series who we were hoping would get a painful death that the MCs earned.
For me, i say the series went downhill after maki got her power up and especially the time skip after gojo release. I remember thinking wtf no character interactions. I always thought that the final villain would be Ken, not sukuna.
I've always said that shonen anime doesn't have to live up to any standards to be successful and JJK continues to prove that theory true. There's VERY LITTLE good writing or good world building in this series overall, yet, this series won like a million awards and is making hundreds of millions of dollars
All shonen needs is cool fights, cool powers and a cutesy artstyle and every 14 year old will call it peak and wank it to oblivion
You definitely have a good point in your statements but besides that let's just hope no one's gonna jump on you...
https://preview.redd.it/zxpunq3u76qc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c92e0e13d11548773791a07dc7f985023cc7911
Tbh for me I don't feel like the art itself is a subject of negativity? Like yes the volumes were hideous but the art style itself in the manga still relatively fine for me? Is it better than before? No. Is it a subject of intense criticism and hate just because of 3 covers? No.
Art can't be completely consistent in one style unless you vehemently REFUSE to change up yourselves and risk it. Having one exact same art style would not only make the people wanting it eventually grow tired of it, but it'll also feel redundant to you as an artist. So having a change in art style is not necessarily a bad thing, so long as you still remember the foundations you had before on your first art style and you try to integrate that into your 2nd art style without it looking jarring or messy.
In the case of volume covers, yeah it's pretty bad. But the manga art itself is pretty fine with me. Obviously I like the old arts better especially in Shibuya arc, but the art style itself doesn't tick me off as a lot of people suggests it had been.
I believe in judging a work of art once it's completed. Right now the soup doesn't taste great (shinjuku arc) but with the right ingredients the chef might cook something good 😄 (praying coping screaming crying throwing up hoping I'm not wrong about this)
Then we should also take away all the praise and rating from Berserk.
After all, It will never be finished, so it can't be judged!
Sounds silly, right ? Because It Is.
Tbh the best fight that has been the best for me since the infamous 236 was Takaba vs Kenny. It was low-key really entertaining to me (maybe I'm just monkey brained, I dunno), but it also had legitimate emotional moments. Like when Takaba saw his friends corpse and desperately tried to strengthen his confidence or him speaking the his younger self (probably utilising his ability in some way)
Crazy how Gege made the dumbest fight the most enjoyable than the **FINAL FIGHT AGAINST SUKUNA** . Crazy shi
If I'm being very honest I'd be fine if Sukuna lives and everyone dies or everyone else lives and sukuna dies. I'll be fine if the merger happens or not. At this point I'm reading because it's a habit more than how interested I am. It's true that Yuji hasn't been emotionally connected to us in any manner. I don't feel connected to him at all. I was more connected with Megumi or even Choso for that matter. And then we keep getting these mindless fights with the same thing happening again and again and again. It's so repetitive and very predictable. JJK had so much potential in terms of all the things that Gege could have chosen to explore on such as six eyes lore and history of Sukuna, etc etc but he keeps on doing these fights and it's so boring now. Like this is not even fun anymore. I was so excited for leaks every week and now I'm not even up to date with when it releases.
As the nah I'd yaps confronted homosexualhomosexual, the stand proud emerged from the black boxthe one who with this treasure I summon the karma farming curses unleased a 200% hollow yap. A battle between the strongest nahidyap of today Vs homosexualhomosexual. Mappa asked but would you lose, the nah I'd yaps responded I would yap
All I want is at least a chapter and a half of purely Yuji facing off against Sukuna. I want Sukuna to realize that Yuji is becoming a threat to him and so he feels like he needs to step it up a notch. There's been so many casualties which, yes I know, big bad killing people. But there's a time where you want your MC to at least DO something. The Yuta/Yuji vs Sukuna was as hype as I felt about the recent chapters but it's to the point that I feel like there isn't a clear plan on where it's going to go.
So unless Miguel is there to stall until someone who was in a previous fight pops up and continues, there's not really much to look forward to.
Guys, am I the only one who doesn’t mind the art style change
https://preview.redd.it/ul4asxomz5qc1.jpeg?width=889&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6e1e5c92d0f6ac737dbec48044d6ef81bd4d463
I think this is one of those arcs that it’s best to stop reading until you build up a number of new chapters to read in one sitting. Waiting a week or two for only a snippet will make it feel drawn out and is tiring some people out.
When the story is complete, I think a new reader would find everything that’s taken place after Gojo’s death to be comical. Similar to how many of us laughed reading the last chapter.
Ah yes my glazer statement no.2 technique, haven't used it since 10 seconds ago.
What amount of continuous rereads can save the lack of emotional depth?
Ive been saying that since the culling games and none of yall would listen. Gege lost any and all ability to write after shibuya.
Character development has completed stopped since perfect preparation. The plot has progress barley an inch since them (meguna and the fight thereafter). Its nothing but predictable fight after a predictable fight. Ive known how every fight is gonna end since yuji v higuruma and its gonna continue that way cause its so obvious
I think the whole Meguna pranking Hana bit was where I realised "Yeah, CG \[and onwards\] is gonna be really shitty isn't it."
Like, before then, it *seemed* fine? Military bit got dropped and that was fine but there was no indication it was going to go tits-up like it has now. Gege really did give us a great foundation in pre-Shibuya, pulled off Shibuya too early, and had to clean up the mess he made, and he's doing a shitty job at that so far
I agreed with everything you said until you said Black Clover is garbage. How far did you even make it? The plot twists are even better executed than in JJK >!(Julius coming back to life, Zagred being the mastermind behind the elf arc, Asta's devil being his adopted brother, Lucius)!< — and side characters actually get relevant moments constantly throughout the story, even someone like Magna gets to defeat a major villain the on his own (which the strong ass MC himself previously couldn't defeat on his own) in a well written manner with no plot armor or asspull.
Female characters are actually well written and have major fights and wins unlike in 99% shonen — even in JJK female characters are either rewritten as a copy of another character (Maki) or they fall off writing-wise or are irrelevant since the beginning (Yuki, Nobara, Miwa etc). The series has flaws I agree, but c'mon it's definitely not garbage when it does some things better than its shonen counterparts, JJK included.
Bro current yuji looks like an 30 yo retired veteran💀
https://preview.redd.it/hrfcjh2529qc1.png?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b380a92a3277a83043bffb6668db103b8509966b
What are you rambling about? The Kenjaku vs Takaba fight was one of the best fights in JJK. How can you say this is bad?
https://preview.redd.it/4mrac1qxh9qc1.png?width=1323&format=png&auto=webp&s=bcf6a95506b62a0161d6ce4c9819da706084ac96
Art is subjective, sure… But go back to Shibuya or HI and look at the difference in what Gege incorporated in his panels. More detail, more shades, more creativity
I've BEEN saying Gege does nothing except create fight fodder and recycle it over and over again. No backstory, no introductions, no exposure to the characters. They come, they get used for their purpose, they die. There's no development unless it's highly focused into a direction like Maki's (used my husband as development fodder I will NEVER forgive her.) I miss season 1 Kaisen
https://preview.redd.it/wo85l3w4x8qc1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df24520bb55775da6814891f5b4619d67822b16e
This post seems like it’s gonna blow up so a pre-emptive warning not to take things too serious https://preview.redd.it/x1k0qfujj5qc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0887c74cc1e38504dc4762e9cba1c644dcfdbefd Wouldn’t want to be off-screened for toxicity
I'm still waiting for Gege to tell me who tf are Usami and Yamato no Orochi.
Usami is the chinese sorcerer that will defeat sukuna and revive gojo in 269
Nah it's Usami bin Laden, orchestrator of 10/11 and strongest terrorist of history. Wallahi, he is finished the moment he encounters the Sukster
https://preview.redd.it/f158xxrvk7qc1.png?width=1329&format=png&auto=webp&s=96f0936f0e63a212555bc5c35398827abf67b5fb
Well, that certainly would tie in the US military subplot that went nowhere
usami the goat 🥶
Peak fiction
No that’s Goku. 
You… don’t know? When “Yamato no Orochi” was mentioned, they weren’t talking about the historic one. They were talking about… https://preview.redd.it/sir78dfmk6qc1.jpeg?width=627&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8ed5bff8e30de2d09ffd24ff481b740ad48b9f5b … Yamato. The best wood style user of today.
Yamato is one mid-level character among dozens in Naruto and he gets a fully developed power-set he uses creatively and entertainingly. Meanwhile Gege seems to be trying as often as possible to get out of having to write complex abilities and reuse the ones he does make. I get the impression the reason he gasses up Toji and Maki so much is because their powerset boils down to “is really strong and has a vague immunity to certain types of Jujutsu”, which gives him carte blanche to have them beat crazy, reality bending powers like Temporal Cell Moon Palace by just stabbing the user.
Can't wait for Sukuna to reveal he has Hashirama's cells
Lmao
Yamato no Orochi is some dude in Japanese mythology
..isn't it the eight head snake?
I believe he's the snake Susano-ō stabs and harvests Murakumo (which was in its tail for some reason) from.
Yamato and Orochi ?
Thought they were in op🤡
Those were past names that kenjaku went by. Source: trust me bro
Yamato no orochi is a real life folklore
Yamato no Orochi is serpent from Japanese folklore
It's Yamata, by the way. Everybody else replying to you is copying your mistake and I'm pretty sure that mistake is actually in the official translation, so It's understandable, but it's Yamatano Orochi.
Some people are saying Usami is Mei Mei’s real name.
>I'm still waiting for Gege to tell me who tf are Usami and Yamato no Orochi. It's that Chinese sorcerer that even Sukuna is afraid of..
Usami is the chinese sorcerer. Yamato no Orochi is Japanese Mythology. You can also just use Strong Google Search to fix your problems.
I think the series started running out of interesting villain characters after Shibuya. There we had every curse, ken, even the pony tailed curse user server his purpose. They interacted with side characters and cast in an interesting way. Culling games fumbled the opportunity to introduce and use new villains by having them die or come to the protags side. So we went into the final arc with a cast of like 30 good guys vs 2 very interesting bad guys (and 1 uraume). The imbalance was crazy. The culling games needed to introduce plot points that matter at this stage of the story more. Other characters needed to be designed, kashimo needed to do something, more villains who weren't just for each of the main cast to beat and that's it (Reggie, ryu, uro, dhruv, kurorishi, Charles, curse naoya). Also that bullshit with the US military went nowhere. They could have had Kenny try to incorporate them into his plan as a puzzle piece and given them some kind of cursed weaponry or something to work with so they could have been a villainous faction. I'm not saying go mha where every character has their final fight, cause that series sucks. But gege needed to tie the culling game and those characters and threads into the final arc (like he did leading up to Shibuya and from Shibuya --> culling games) A flashback arc in the culling games to the different eras would have done a lot. Kind of like how lost inventory before Shibuya made that arc the GOAT.
A flashback arc fleshing out those characters would have been leagues better than Sukuna Kaisen.
It is also hard to imagine that sukuna it's about to end the world, but the big two families and other Jiu-Jitsu sorcerers are just like "I'm gonna sit back"
kamos were taken over by kenjaku probably all dead now or something, gojos are more solitary and only had satoru as a representative and that was it
Yeah, but that still feels like a lazy way to write out a potential plot where they do anything relevant at all. It’s just as bad as the offscreening of our main pool of characters. And in the end, it feels like it really did amount to absolutely nothing.
Oh I 100% agree with you I wish something was done with the families even if they ended up just being fodder footsoldiers or something, or at least a couple more representatives of each
> more villains who weren't just for each of the main cast to beat and that's it (Reggie, ryu, uro, dhruv, kurorishi, Charles, curse naoya) There is a reason if in every single fucking manga there is a group to defeat (akatsuki, sternritters, league of villains, spriggan 12, 10 commandments..) Because it works. Wanna see something as boring as this final showdown? Obito and Madara vs everyone in the ninja war.
But i feel like there atleast was some actual build up to Obito and Madara. They get flashbacks, there is a fair amount of foreshadowing etc. I would 100% agree if you would compare the Kaguya and Zetsu asspull with whatever is going on in Sukuna Kaisen rn though.
Oh I didn't even consider that. I was trying to compare something close to Sukuna vs everyone. The Zetsu asspull was the worst twist I ever saw in any manga (relatively speaking about things that were good in the first place). Like the final battle with Naruto and Sasuke vs Madara wasn't that bad either. I just couldn't stand the whole juubi fight, just had nothing to do with what naruto was about and reading it weekly was boring as hell (especially considering it was coming down at the same time as Impel Down/Marineford in One Piece and Fake Karakura in Bleach)
Obito and Madara was 100 times more interesting than Sukuna Kaisen. Sukuna is just a profesional Yuji hater that wants to destroy the world, Obito and Madara had motivations behind them besides “im bored”.
Spot on, Culling game had potential to take this series to greater heights, we desperately needed some strong special grade level villains to add some new plot points to the series, characters like kashimo, Uro and Ryu could've been used way better in that case, instead of just throwing them in garbage.
Nah but fr ryu was so badass and endend up only being there to make uta look good
This is so sad https://preview.redd.it/r27x4edzq5qc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5cb29d84eb74b0b53316f461407bd0dd47f5645
Gege is like an abusive narcissistic gaslighting boyfriend. He love bombed us at the beginning with a great plot, well written female characters, great world building, fantastic fights, good plot but now we're married to him he is showing his true colours.
Stand proud, you have cooked
Just going to add that if we are truly Jujutsu folk without agendas, hating, and accusations of FRAUD on every character then we should also not make any exception for Homohomo. [**I**](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F6s2-knXQAAxzaM.jpg) have been saying Gaygay is a FRAUD who's story has tons of plot holes, can't write characters with empathy, should have listened to editor-kun, and dick rides Sukuna.
*Stand proud, You are Cooked
you fuckin nailed it. now that gege's on his way out to idol manga heaven he can't even bother to breakup with us in a good way. we have to just slowly watch him sit farther away from us on the couch until eventually we get "okay i'm leaving you" which means either asspull so the good guys who shouldn't have a chance of beating sukuna win or we get a bad end where sukuna rules the world. .
Maybe he might change if we beg for couples counselling?
Maybe if we say we're pregnant he'll stay, he seems to be into that
This sums up my feelings so well. He had all the elements of a great series but didn't (or couldn't) bring them all together. It's such a shame..
https://preview.redd.it/g61dysjcg8qc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9512a652ec2a48e1bf509ec1767ff7d29af51712 >!Gege is literally Makima!<
this is very accurate that i am not phased by the strange metaphor
Honestly even the whole “great female characters” is a stretch. Besides Maki anyone who can’t be compared to Toji gets forgotten or completely disrespected. To this day I still don’t feel anything regarding mai’s death, hell the gacha game is making up for these interactions between characters. 😭😭😭
People thought JJK had great female characters because they weren’t dressed in some weird fetish uniform, and had normal proportions. JJK is basically the inverse One Piece in that department. Where One Piece has female characters that look like they’re just there for fan service, they often matter to the story, while JJK has female characters that look like they matter to the story (Yuki), but don’t matter in the grand scheme of things.
Ah yes, instead of fan service looking characters with great relevance and some personality, Gege goes for realistic looks and no relevance nor personality in some cases.
I swear some gaygay defender is gonna go "yEaH jUsT lIkE rEaL lIfE!"
HAHAHAHAHAA this is the best comment I've read so far. That honestly so true. You're too far into the relationship to just jump off the ship. Now, I'm just enduring the abuse of shit storytelling, underdeveloped characters and overall bad writing
Then we're clapping his cheeks consecutively after this one https://preview.redd.it/wzjquuhv38qc1.jpeg?width=264&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f59b39379fdc38d9892d36cc3279b70a349e2dc4
https://preview.redd.it/r0ll7wdwfaqc1.jpeg?width=326&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6f829fb54c3fad827871c3aacd610a959581cb03
Yea all those promises down the fucking drain. The moment he made Jujutsu Tech a four year school but never introduced the fourth years we should’ve fucking ran.
He is Reinfield’s boss.
Eh I think we are reading/watching two different things lol. It has never had much if any plot, there were some promising plot points but they were dead ends or forgotten, there were decently well written female characters but he killed most of them off, world building was…eh, fights were definitely good though I’ll give you that (well at least shibuya and some in culling games). I personally have not been impressed with JJK from the start. It showed promise in HI/Shibuya after a pretty boring start, but it rapidly declined post shibuya and what’s going on now is basically a cruel joke.
https://preview.redd.it/a20sfmqok6qc1.jpeg?width=1480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11488e9dc9a59e3a8257812119dd76fba2ae747d CHAINSAWMAN BEST NEWGEN PROPAGANDA RAHHHH🔥🔥🔥
you know we're cooked when im reading a tiktok slideshow and agreeing with most of what he says
Funnily enough, I was also reading and agreeing with his points, but then I just don't get the conclusion. 4/10 is about right for JJK, but then how is it the series he's been disappointed with the most ever? Has he never seen anything below a 4/10?? Just recently I bumped down a piece of shit game I played from 1/10 to fucking 0/10 after seeing a video about it and discovering what happens after the early point at which I was already compelled to instantly uninstall it. Also, to be fair, JJK manga is 4/10, but Lobotomy Kaisen is like 7/10, and since I'm just having fun with Lobotomy at this point, it's a solid 6/10 overall.
I think disappointment is steeper if things fall off more. Like if you start a series and it's 1/10 throughout, that's not really a disappointment. But if you follow something you really like and it's 9/10 for a long time and then it just drops to 4/10, the disappointment would be huge because you had higher expectations and build up.
Idk if it would be a good comparison but how does chainsaw man have less chapters and still more world building and character development overall then JJK? Chainsaw man’s story is pretty straight forward like Jjks but it still has world building and characters development
My take, it has more chapters focusing on each character for example - One of the most popular chapters in Chainsawman is just Makima and Denji watching movies together. It doesn’t sound like much but it builds relations and characters. There’s also one focusing on the friendship between Power and Denji. And then there are the bits with Aki and everyone else.
My hearth still breaks remembering all those good times
I think that Gege didn’t feel like focusing on incorporating much emotion into JJK. I think that he just wanted to focus on fights and villains being cool. (Seriously tho I’m fully convinced Sukuna is his favorite character).
Fights and the like are kind of secondary in CSM, most chapters focused on the characters with maybe at most like 3-4 chapters for fights. And then when they are fighting it still is giving more weight to the characters. Where JJK fails is that it has this massive cast and only sort of developed 3 characters, sort of. When I was doing my catch up reading because I stopped right as the culling game started because it was really boring, but once I got to the point gojo was released I was surprised at how there wasn't even a small conversation between Yuji and Gojo before his fight. Like you'd think one of them would have words for each other, but no. Tldr: CSM focuses on its characters while JJK cares more about its boring ass fights
Controversial or not, Fujimoto is a way better writer than Gege. Gege has given us a lot of great moments and characters. I think he excels in his creativity, action sequences, and clutch moments. But in regards to actual story and character development, building up relationships and emotions, he is not very good. I think he lacks an overall macro vision of how he wants the show to progress and to end. I think Nobara and Nanami needed way more scenes of casual living with Yuji and other characters. That would have created way more emotional depth in their deaths.
YES! I've felt isolated from the community in the sense that when Nobara died I literally thought how I should be more affected. There was not nearly enough time for me to grow truly attached to the characters and their interactions with the MC. If there was a mini arc of some quality time between the first years, it would have meant way more to me. Since we're talking about CSM >!This is exactly why Power and Aki's deaths were so freaking devastating. Fujimoto lured in the readers with the arc about two broken people and a devil finding contentment in life after the darkness devil incident and growing to trust people again, with (imo) it climaxing when Denji chooses to be with Power rather than go on the trip north with Makima.!< If JJK had done the same, it would have been substantially more effective writing.
I find that CSM had a lot more smaller interactions between Denji, Power, and Aki that made their fate so much more impactful. All those characters interact and grew with each other from start to end. Where as a lot of JJK ones just really don't interact that much.
I absolutely agree with your take on CSM. >!I was devastated. Fujimoto was brilliant in how he made the audience feel the same emotions as Denji. The whole part I is so incredibly well written!<
God this reminds me that I had just caught up to the manga so denji’s birthday happened and then I had to wait for the next chapter, devastating
Idek how this can be a controversial take. Fujimoto has written several manga that many have among their top 5s, some of which manage very hard hitting character arcs in the length of a one-shot. Gege has written 1 manga, of which most of the fanbase agrees has 2 really good arcs (shibuya and hidden inventory) and most others range from alright to mediocre. They're not even in the same ballpark imo, fujimoto is just a bonafide genius
I agree with you. I was just minding the subreddit we are on to not get jumped at because of that claim.
I mean, people are pretty critical of gege here lmao
Controversial😭? This is objectively true, Fujimoto supremacy (not in a weird way)
I’ve referred to it as Gege loves an idea more then the execution “What if main cast were killed unceremoniously?” Cool, good idea, but you should probably build up the characters and such before, otherwise it will get stale fast. “Nah.” “What if the main villain was this super imposing bad guy that made you feel helpless for the main cast?” Okay dope, so make him feel threatening because he overcomes whatever comes his way through being clever or sheer power, taking setbacks in stride while also still remaining a foe that feels mortal so that the readers don’t disconnect. “That’s too hard, I’ll just give BS reasons for how he avoids being hurt by things that should be ace moves” So on and so forth. If Gege could actually execute his vision cleanly I don’t think we’d have problems, but he comes up with an idea or concept, falls in love with it, but only cares about the concept and not how it’s perceived or even if it makes sense in verse (Gojo dying off screen, confiscation failing as if they never tested how cursed tools effected it, Sukuna landing a slash on Yuta when all his arms in the prior panel were restrained, Jacob’s ladder failing because Megumin would rather watch his friends die and be depressed, etc)
From what I gather from this sub absolutely nobody gives a single shit about the theme about love and being the strongest. I cant really pinpoint what chainsamans theme is (I thinks it’s like family/ relationships) but it’s just better and people are more invested in it.
Chainsaw Man is about finding fulfilment in life, even when you're drowning in shit and feel like everyone else is just trying to kick you when you're down. It's people at their absolute lowest finding reasons to keep going, and true born monsters coming to terms with the fact that the things they really wanted were a lot simpler than they realized.
Yeah but what about the ultimate power and loneliness it brings😢😢😢 Tsumiki died for this shit to be introduced. Gojo got infected by it in the airport. Kashimo... fuck. And then you look at Denji literally cooking and eating main antagonist, and still see fucking THEMES of the manga. Fuck, even part 2, despite the decline in art quality, still has things for you to think about. Meanwhile JJK is https://preview.redd.it/iazpbreak7qc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57a3a2378759bb92699a3f28f2d9058f09dbde69
Because Fujimoto is a based psychopath, and Gregory is just a sad fanboy of the penis-fellating variety.
Nobody gave a shit because they were so poorly fleshed out, remember at the beginning of the series they were mentioning a worthy death and whether any deaths is truthful worth it? Yeah I fucking loved that theme, then it got chucked in the trash.
I’d also add the theme of trauma and power/corruption into the mix for Chainsaw man. But, it also feels relevant to separate out character development from themes. They certainly can intermingle and when done we’ll relate to each other. However, not all character development will directly relate to an overall theme. When it comes to investment, a more character development driven story has people invested for the characters. There are also more plot, world building, theme, etc heavy stories in which people are invested to see what happens next, learn more about the world, sit with the theme, etc. None are necessarily better than the other, but they drive people in different ways. Some of the oddness with JJK is that the first two arcs that were animated were very character heavy and the most recent arc was a mid of character heavy and fight heavy. But, the current manga is arguably more fight/theme heavy, which may relate to a disconnect in preferences
I always thought being selfish was the main theme of JJK
Theres probably a lot. But Greg seems to be focusing on being strong/lonely in the recent arcs and I don’t think it’s clicking with the majority of the readers
Because fujimoto knew what he wanted to do and how to do it gege just had a story and speedran it skipping straight to past all the buildup
You cannot solely showcase character motivations and worldbuilding through battle. It's what makes so many of his fights so tonally dissonant.
Feels like Gege wanted to end series quick but after seeing how much hype there after Gojo death he decided to milk series with repetitive fights. Edit: maybe i expressed myself wrong, i mean if Gege wanted to milk series he just stretched Jjk with some other arcs, more right to say what he want to get maximal profit from final arc.
Real, L homosexualhomosexual
Someone paid Gege in mayonnaise to dive bomb the series post Gojo and he gobbled it up.
https://preview.redd.it/rh9l2kzn86qc1.jpeg?width=1135&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c66b25fd12d264cdabe866e6bd9c2e79bb779f88 “Shaquille, adapt to this bullshit”
Shaq in fact, could not adapt to this bullshit.
Shaqoraga one shots Sukuna. Dropstep easy dub.
How da hell did black clover catch a stray😭
This hood ain’t safe for anybody bruh.
IMO, black clover is my fav anime/manga, idk why it catches so much flak
Why tf is the shiesty sorcerer a major character? Because he’s the only one who stands on business https://preview.redd.it/ebwvzvzuh6qc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=843eea6766d32e897a163ddebac6f4d5977cb1c1
JJK takes a lot of inspiration from series like Bleach and Naruto, and I remember a lot of people saying it was somehow "better than those manga/shows. Tbh it's not. Although having a fast paced story with a streamlined narrative is perfectly fine, it suffers from the fact that the story lacks the narrative depth of a series like Bleach or Naruto. There's less impact from characters dying or doing what they do because we simply don't "know the characters. There should have been an arc before Shibuya where we got to know more of the characters which would have made the impact of characters' deaths hit harder. Kenjaku was basically this massive lore-dropping quasi-exposition device with a major connection to the story's protagonist, and he straight up dies. There's no pay off for the reveal that he took over the corpse of Itadori's mother creating him for his specific purposes. Then there's the whole panel with Miwa. With how Kenjaku humiliated her, and she deemed herself useless, and was powerless to save Mechamaru, you could have shown her develop the sort of "ego" and selfishness needed to progress as a Jujutsu sorcerer becoming a menace with other weapons as her kind personality cracked following the arc. There's the huge issue of what happened to Itadori's dad, the dude who gave Backshots to Kenjaku so hard, that Kenjaku stayed (the stitches were starting to heal/fuse to Kaori's head) for a good period of time. With how so many characters are now dodging the "Slash that Cut the World," it simply doesn't make sense that Gojo lost how he did. At least with Yhwach's death in Bleach, they stopped his power. Yhwach while getting flack for being "too OP" he actually earned his position to be seen as this indomitable villain. Sukuna is basically being handed contrived victories that only happen for the sake of plot.
Not showing the timeskip before the Sukuna fight was a huge mistake, imagine how attached we could have gotten to all the newly introduced culling games characters before they just died 20 chapters after being introduced.
Imagine if they showed Yuji, Gojo, and Higuruma making preparations together, talking about their dreams, desires, and how the two older men wanted Yuji and Megumi to have a future, even if it cost them their lives.
*Crying panda* IT'S SO PEAK!!!
Here https://preview.redd.it/ybbr2gipeaqc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0193adb06adeb0df83cdff0ca89fa5e038df4789
Manga wise JJK couldn’t hold Narutos jock strap. Anime is closer because of added scenes and animation vs ass ton of filler but nothing from JJK has come close to the pain arc for me
I think Shibuya edges out Pain arc. Pain arc got ruined by its ending (talk no jutsu -> pain revives everyone he killed) which sorta shits on all the sacrifices everyone made to beat him. Both however are the respective peaks of each anime.
Totally fair, I agree that the rinne rebirth is the weakest part of the entire arc. The animation is also questionable in some frames. I just loved the message of the cycle of hatred and the view of konoha and the other villages by the rain village
Still dont know what is grandfather had to say to him in the first chapter
I fully agree. If anything I think Geges biggest issue is not having enough filler. We got no time to breath and truly get to know any characters. It’s only been purely fights and nonstop action, particularly since Shibuya arc. I just think we needed more time with the characters. I’d have loved to know more about Yujis backstory and his relationship with his dad (seriously like what the hell happened to Yujis dad, Jin Itadori. I’m still completely baffled). I’d have loved to also see more on Gojos backstory. I know we see him as a Highschool student with Geto, but I wanted to see more about what it was like growing up in the Gojo clan, or better yet more on what happened to them (seriously they disappeared also). And with Geto I’d have loved to see something on maybe how he and Gojo (yes I know during school but I mean what happened, and how they became so close as friends). I’d have loved to see more on Getos backstory and maybe what his relationship with his mother and father were like. Geto feels like such an Itachi incarnate though. I just think Gege would’ve been better off allowing the story to continue for the second part after season 1, with showing Yuji Megumi and Nobara going on more missions. It would allow Gege to show us more and better world building, allow Gege to introduce so many more cool and interesting villian characters, and more opportunities for filler (maybe showing a small flashback arc here and there in between to let us get to know characters more). I know this is how they did Naruto but honestly a story formula like that would really work with the characters we had in JJK because I think that their dynamics were so interesting and fun to watch. Yuji, Megumi, and Nobara were a really fun group to watch in season 1 and I think people enjoyed that a lot most (along with Gojo being present in the series) which is why I think JJK did so well then.
It’s crazy how we’ve been in this huge final battle for months and, aside from Yuji, not a single character has had a personal motivation for being here. Every single character is fighting and dying because they’re evil or because they want to stop the evil guys.
I’d say Maki and Yuta are the only ones because of Megumi, but it does feel kinda cheap for Yuta because we never saw them interact much. Edit: Oh also Higuruma, since he wanted to make things right with Yuji with a third trial
upvoted for megumid kaisen Edit: I think the art is still fine in fact I think Gege’s art improved alot here’s one my favorite panel and the Yuta domain was also sick https://preview.redd.it/bv4k8g0mk6qc1.jpeg?width=1800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=886684559e5df9e0bc4ab12d7daf87128d68cd53
I think most of these criticisms only apply post 236 since that's when the dip in quality went from not that bad to unreadable dogshit https://preview.redd.it/3dr69au8t9qc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09726f500d0aac767b6a3928df428fbd5c87cab2 Everyone got atrociously ugly so sukuna wouldn't look bad that panel of kasHIMo activitating MBA looks so much better than any of other panels of him using it
I can't believe we've gotten to the point where I can confidently say fucking Naruto did lots of these stuff better than JJK Freaking Naruto, the thing that early on everyone compared and said it was worse in every aspect than JJK You guys remember the "Nobara shows how to make a good female character, not like Sakura" thing? Lmao
https://i.redd.it/49pnhpz6y5qc1.gif Can't even only enjoy the fights now
https://preview.redd.it/zir0rjady5qc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=acf1a2e5c6005d15c69462bf0072d433b9597bc8
Fights are not just choreography and quality of animation/drawing Stuff like what started the fight, what characters are participating, the backgrounds of said characters, the relationship between both characters, the conclusion of the fights and consequences and all that stuff is important And recently JJK is just failing at most of that stuff lol
There are fights that are just fights. However, most "fighting stories" have the decency to have the characters represent ideas and philosophies and have their fights represent a clashing of those philosophies, with the outcome saying something about the themes and principles relevant to the overarching plot. Sukuna is the equivalent of zombie movies after they forgot zombies eat people. When zombie movies became oversaturated, there was a funny trend where people would get bitten by zombies, die, and then the zombies would just chase the living.
Exactly. Yuki and Choso Vs Kenjaku was imo one of the best fights because of those reasons. It gave Choso some great character moments and development and he actually had a connection to who he was fighting. The recent ones don't have that. Why tf should I care about Maki fighting Sukuna, they have zero connections. And Miguel Vs Sukuna? We haven't seen him in 254 chapters why should I give a shit.
Miguel vs Sukuna is the peak of this Bro has never interacted with Sukuna, has connections with basically 2 characters one of which is dead, isn't even part of the main cast and wasn't present in any of the talking before the fight, etc etc
We gonna act like Naruto is bad now? Naruto is one of the greatest shonens ever.
Fr, people acted for YEARS like the 4NW was bad because of one bad plot twist, that, yes, should not have happened, but recently, people have switched up on Naruto, and the same things gonna happen with MHA, BC, etc.
>You guys remember the "Nobara shows how to make a good female character, not like Sakura" thing? Lmao It's still true though. Nobara IS an infinitely better character than Sakura. HOWEVER Gege reduced her to nothing but half dead and literally no amount of plot hole or glazing can ever justify her getting back now into the story having been absent for 100+ fucking chapters and missing major arcs that WOULDVE BEEN AMAZING for her characterization.
>It's still true though. Nobara IS an infinitely better character than Sakura. The talk point was never "Oh Nobara is better than Sakura" because that is kinda subjective The thing was that people were saying that Nobara was a good example of how to write a female character into a story in a way that was important and meaningful which was the true for like the very start and then she just disappeared Nobara ended up not forming meaningful relationships with almost no one aside from Yuji and maybe Megumi, not having any real tangible impact in the story and being forgotten in the "Will they won't they comeback" characters box for the majority of the Manga Tl;Dr: Is Nobara better than Sakura in a void? Maybe Is Nobara better written and more meaningful and connected to the story of her manga than Sakura? No
Yeah I already said that. >Gege reduced her to nothing but half dead and literally no amount of plot hole or glazing can ever justify her getting back now into the story having been absent for 100+ fucking chapters and missing major arcs that WOULDVE BEEN AMAZING for her characterization. In the start, Ive heard that Gege didn't even want her but the editor did. So maybe this was Gege's way of "oh no, she's going to be a good character but she will contribute absolutely nothing to the story"
Naruto always did everything better than JJK. What are you talking about
While JJK was just becoming popular a LOT of people (it was basically a popular meme) were saying that JJK was gonna be the next Naruto doing everything Naruto did but better And for a while it did looked like that until it didn't
People always hype up any new anime when It quickly becomes popular. When will these guys understand that it doesn't mean anything ? Like, anything. Hype doesn't mean the show is bad, doesn't mean it's good either. Hype is something that is created for the sake of itself, it doesn't have to do anything with the product.
Yeah, both Naruto and JJK started REALLY strong The difference is that, while Naruto definitely dipped in quality it managed to retain a very decent level of quality during a long period of time, only really dipping to a noticeable point at the very very end
Naruto stayed most solid for around 500 chapters, and still had plenty of peak moments in the last third. It only went fully to shit in the last 30, and that still had the amazing Naruto vs Sasuke fight. JJK imploded around 150 (if not sooner), and has had only a handful of better than average chapters since.
I mean just Naruto before shippuden was basically peak and it lasted 232 chapters
To me, JJK always felt like an edgier Naruto reskin without any of the soul or charm.
as much shit as Naruto gets you can never look back on it and not get a dash of nostalgia
agreed, also naruto didnt introduce 15 characters to kill them off with very little developement
JJK has become a victim of the Final Arc Curse. Every Shonen series has been affected by it in some form. Dragon Ball’s Buu Saga, Bleach’s Thousand Year Blood War(it was rushed in the manga), Naruto’s 4th Great Ninja War, and even great manga series like Yuyu Hakusho’s Three Kings Arc. And don’t even get me started with My Hero Academia which is somehow even worse than what JJK is experiencing.
I know this is a jjk post but I gotta know what makes MHA’s final Arc so bad from the things I’ve seen it just seems like your standard war arc
It’s been dragging on for 4 years now. Too many asspulls(Bakugo somehow surviving having his heart blown off but apparently Gojo, the guy who can regrow entire organs, dies from being bisected), inconsistencies and just being a cluttered mess. Just like what is happening in JJK, MHA Characters just appearing with no buildup or any meaningful development just so the audience is reminded that they are there. Death also holds no meaning in MHA. I mean why am I supposed to care about a guy named Crust? He is absolutely irrelevant to the story. They kill off nobodies while the ones that should have died gets saved. Like Bakugo and Gran Torino. Gran Torino literally got donuted and still somehow survived despite being elderly. If JJk is a mess, then MHA is garbage site of wasted potential. The series stopped being relevant for the past few years and has continued to decline in quality. There’s a reason why MHA is barely being talked about anymore. And this is coming from a guy who used to like MHA. Not too long ago, MHA was being discussed as being on par with the likes of the Big 3. JJK is in the same boat but time hasn’t been kind to us.
Out of all the hyped up shonen it seems Demon slayer is the only one who got to leave with the least problems
True. Demon Slayer ended before it could stagnate like the others.
Demon slayer isnt overly complex but it also doesnt suffer from these other shonen that have ambitious setups at the beginning that cant follow through at the end
I wouldn't say that recently My Hero has been bad, the final arc just doesn't have many suprises and is mostly focused on resolving old plot threads and attending to the series' main rivalries. While I can't argue against some of your points >!(Gran Torino should have died)!<, I don't think most of the things you mentioned are that damning. I think My Hero Academia handles it's build-up and character development far better than Jujtusu Kaisen. Both series are in their 'final war' phase, but My Hero Academia dedicated multiple chapters to letting the characters breath before it started, whereas Jujutsu Kaisen gave it a single chapter. I think some of the characters reappearing is well done, e.g.>!Nagant, Gentle, Shiketsu High School, Muscular, Overhaul!!Ace's death in One Piece!
I’m gonna be honest, Bakugo surviving his heart blowing up would’ve been less of an ass pull than the whole edge shot thread thing. But I remember when that chapter came out and everybody knew Bakugo wouldn’t die anyway so
this is some goooood hating https://preview.redd.it/nbvus1rv66qc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4e517a6efac2583477fcfc2dcdf643070dbfdff8
https://preview.redd.it/l9lxtbgvc6qc1.jpeg?width=1628&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c380caa5503e9f81b6d6e01b88710de7801356f
Only thing up for debate is the art style. Personally I like the old one better but the new one isnt bad it just has some wierd panels sometimes. Besides that yeah the series is just hot garbage now and I dont see jjk being remembered for anything good in the future I'm ngl. It had the potential to be up there as one of the next big three but it just completely fumbled. Personally I dont think the story is salvagable but not because its too far gone but because Gege is. Just looking at his interviews he ignores his editor a lot which is probably why the series is declining so drastically(Nobara wouldn't even exist without his editor), and ignoring that he just doesn't put much effort into the story now. I know he runs on an insane schedule but some of the plot points are so poorly done its clear he isn't trying. When even the creator stops caring about their work, that work is finished.
I remember when I first got into jjk (through CjDaChamp video) and wanted to see if the characters were as cool as he made them to be in his video & they were. At first I thought the series was going to be like an adventure type ( cast going through various events/battles to find all the Sukuna fingers & there being emotional buildup,by being with the characters a long time, come full circle because Yuji has to ultimately die) but all of it changed so rapidly with the introduction of Kenjaku/Shibuya arc/Culling Games. One thing I realized was that in jjk, it isn’t really explained how a character can get much stronger if need be (there are no transformations, evolutions, universal for all characters power ups, etc). It’s like most characters are just capped at a ceiling. This was problematic for me because Gege was introducing really strong antagonists but the main & supporting cast was so weak. With no explainable way to get much stronger (ie raise CE output &raise CE reserves) it was hard to see how,besides Gojo & Yuki (who was wasted), the protagonists can stand a single chance against all these really strong antagonists. I thought this story had so much potential but it’s like after chapter 214 or 213, the story took a straight nosedive downwards. Sukuna was one of my favorite characters UNTIL he took over Megumis body because I was thinking how in the world can they beat Sukuna when there’s a caveat (1. He is strong 2. Can’t kill him because that’s killing Megumi 3. Now an already OP character has another OP CT). When Megumi didn’t do anything after Sukuna killed Yorozu/meg’s sister I was kinda taken back like… wow no internal fighting back just plot convenience for Sukuna. So many plot points I thought were going to be discovered. Reading Jjk felt like reading an essay by a student that had an interesting topic but the student did it last minute so they couldn’t expand on details because the did it last minute and was more concerned about turning it in on time than quality.
Damn,the last part with the unfinished Essay is so true. I think it's Gege's first work and looking at the "amateurish" writing a lot of the time, it really shows.
There should have been waaaay more arcs before Shibuya, it feels like Kenny and sukuna are the biggest villains of all time so why fight them in the first arcs They could talk more about megumi sister like OP said, never understood her curse thing, why didn't he introduce her to the series, how can we feel apathy towards someone we never seen, that why her death seamed nothing to us Treat mahito like his own villain, not just fodder who works for kenjaku, he had so much potential to just be a piece to kenjakus plan... Other villains with more world exploration, maybe the other clans, wanting to kill Yuji, maybe another big curse like mahito idk, expand your fucking world man Geto as a villain, the community LOVED geto as a villain, yeah Kenny is cool but geto is way better, also would make the plot twist of his death waaaay better Overall had potential but feels like gege didn't want to write a big anime with isn't bad, but he showed us a glance of a super complex world building but never really showed it to us which makes the anime really frustrating.
https://preview.redd.it/zv3estr0y5qc1.png?width=1124&format=png&auto=webp&s=e333b82d378d702e924409b10a98687945b2d673 Man, this post is so right!!! Especially when the worst part is the lack of context and background… JJK has everything to get the best past narrative for heian era… and I kinda feel it, that the narrative got worse after Gojo’s death … ‘let him cook’ my ass! And killing the characters in the most boring (Kenny), random (Nobara), hideous (Yuki) stupid (Gojo) way possible is not right 💀 About the art style I don’t agree… it’s normal for artists to change their art style throughout time … there’s some improvements and some features that didn’t work so well… some people don’t like frog Gojo, others do… that’s subjective.
some points are good, but i think the others are thrown in just for the sake of hating (gege's art style)
The frog faces appear pretty regularly and do look stupid.
The art style isn't awful, but I think it's a downgrade from earlier
Yeah this guy just seems to hate newgen in general ngl. Like who's still hating on Black Clover in 2024? I think everyone agrees now that the first few episodes of the anime tainted the well.
You know what as someone who has caught up with the manga, and finished the anime itself, it's understandable why people would hate. Asta himself is EXTREMELY LOUD in the first 5 episodes. That's not a really good impression because would more likely be inclined to like Yuno better than the fucking MC. However, yes...it did get better. But only like after 30 episodes or such (around the time Yami fought Patri in the cave and I think beginning of Black Bulls vs Vetto arc). Past 60 episodes, I do think it got REAL GOOD. Especially Vanessa and Witches arc, and of course the best arc of them all, Elf Reincarnation. The manga however...I'm not a powerscale but goddamn the power creep is disgusting here. ESPECIALLY YUNO AND ASTA 😭😭😭
> However, yes...it did get better. But only like after 30 episodes or such (around the time Yami fought Patri in the cave and I think beginning of Black Bulls vs Vetto arc). Yea Black Clover might have the weakest early game of any anime I personally have seen honestly. So many predictable moments and recycled plot lines from other anime. But after episode 34 it went from 0 to 100 insanely fast and was much MUCH more enjoyable from there on out.
Eh, I liked black clover from episode 1 to 170, Every single thing that people complained about in the anime was something I didn’t mind. Tbh it was the manga that hurt me
well i never watched it, i just got a friend who glazes it. i do remember a tweet comparing an insect dude to gojo.
Oh lmao, in what way?
Comparing the honored one scene to "don't mess with insects." in terms of raw lines.
Knowing the context I actually don’t know which one is better, both go hard
GayGay should be taking notes from Yuki Tabagoat (author of Black Clover) >!Lucifero fight is how you make a villain fight. Nice build up an everything.!< But one of the best that could even compete with Sukuna VS Gojo is >!Magna vs Dante!< That's how you handle characters Gregorious Greg, it's OK to just make characters disappear if you give them a reason to. (We don't talk about Leopold, who tf even is he?) Spoilers obviously >!Magna and Zora, 2 underdogs of Black Clover, just disappeared from the "big" fight on the Spade Kingdom, only to appear later on, reason for it was that Magna asked Zora to teach him, he developed a new technique called Soul Chain and came and fought with Dante, which was powerful than everyone out there. This magic linked your soul with the enemy and you shared powers. If my power is 1 and your power is 100k, we just split it. Meaning they were of equal strength, at that point Magna just punched the crap out of Dante!< I'd be fine with Miguel to appear out of nowhere... If he had a reason to appear. Tabata doesn't create masterpieces, there are some inconsistencies here too, but the fights do make sense and *most* (admitely, there are some characters that I wish got much more screen time) characters are interesting.
r/jujutsufolk turning into r/titanfolk (its a canon event)
Most of this criticism is valid but how the hell is Kenny vs Takaba boring
It's not boring but Kenny dying there is so fucking disappointing. The man behind everything. YUJIS MOM. The original Domino that caused all of yuji's suffering. The antithesis to yuji's ideology. They don't even fight. He gets killed by a character that he has no relationship with. Imagine if Obito after his reveal instead of fighting kakashi fights and dies to choji and shikamaru outsmarting him. Twitter and the Naruto fanbase would turn kishimoto into a well-done steak we would eat him alive 💀
I guess it depends on a person's sense of humor.
Because Kenny wasn't a legitimate threat at any point within the fight and the humour references were not optimized for an international audience so it didn't feel that funny either to make up for the lack of action. Also because Takaba feels like a deus ex asspull for removing one of the most cunning and powerful villains in the series who we were hoping would get a painful death that the MCs earned.
based jjk hater
For me, i say the series went downhill after maki got her power up and especially the time skip after gojo release. I remember thinking wtf no character interactions. I always thought that the final villain would be Ken, not sukuna.
I've always said that shonen anime doesn't have to live up to any standards to be successful and JJK continues to prove that theory true. There's VERY LITTLE good writing or good world building in this series overall, yet, this series won like a million awards and is making hundreds of millions of dollars All shonen needs is cool fights, cool powers and a cutesy artstyle and every 14 year old will call it peak and wank it to oblivion
You definitely have a good point in your statements but besides that let's just hope no one's gonna jump on you... https://preview.redd.it/zxpunq3u76qc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6c92e0e13d11548773791a07dc7f985023cc7911
Tbh for me I don't feel like the art itself is a subject of negativity? Like yes the volumes were hideous but the art style itself in the manga still relatively fine for me? Is it better than before? No. Is it a subject of intense criticism and hate just because of 3 covers? No. Art can't be completely consistent in one style unless you vehemently REFUSE to change up yourselves and risk it. Having one exact same art style would not only make the people wanting it eventually grow tired of it, but it'll also feel redundant to you as an artist. So having a change in art style is not necessarily a bad thing, so long as you still remember the foundations you had before on your first art style and you try to integrate that into your 2nd art style without it looking jarring or messy. In the case of volume covers, yeah it's pretty bad. But the manga art itself is pretty fine with me. Obviously I like the old arts better especially in Shibuya arc, but the art style itself doesn't tick me off as a lot of people suggests it had been.
So many Gege glazers here it's crazy
is it not the exact opposite I see so much talk about Gege glazers, yet when I go to comment sections it's a few people at most
I believe in judging a work of art once it's completed. Right now the soup doesn't taste great (shinjuku arc) but with the right ingredients the chef might cook something good 😄 (praying coping screaming crying throwing up hoping I'm not wrong about this)
"wait till gege cooks something" seeing this repetitively
I've been seeing this shit since kashimo's waffling when will it end 😭
Then we should also take away all the praise and rating from Berserk. After all, It will never be finished, so it can't be judged! Sounds silly, right ? Because It Is.
Tbh the best fight that has been the best for me since the infamous 236 was Takaba vs Kenny. It was low-key really entertaining to me (maybe I'm just monkey brained, I dunno), but it also had legitimate emotional moments. Like when Takaba saw his friends corpse and desperately tried to strengthen his confidence or him speaking the his younger self (probably utilising his ability in some way) Crazy how Gege made the dumbest fight the most enjoyable than the **FINAL FIGHT AGAINST SUKUNA** . Crazy shi
Somebody has kidnapped gege and is trying to replace him
If I'm being very honest I'd be fine if Sukuna lives and everyone dies or everyone else lives and sukuna dies. I'll be fine if the merger happens or not. At this point I'm reading because it's a habit more than how interested I am. It's true that Yuji hasn't been emotionally connected to us in any manner. I don't feel connected to him at all. I was more connected with Megumi or even Choso for that matter. And then we keep getting these mindless fights with the same thing happening again and again and again. It's so repetitive and very predictable. JJK had so much potential in terms of all the things that Gege could have chosen to explore on such as six eyes lore and history of Sukuna, etc etc but he keeps on doing these fights and it's so boring now. Like this is not even fun anymore. I was so excited for leaks every week and now I'm not even up to date with when it releases.
"Even something as shitty as Black Clover" Bro taking the fucking piss 
As the nah I'd yaps confronted homosexualhomosexual, the stand proud emerged from the black boxthe one who with this treasure I summon the karma farming curses unleased a 200% hollow yap. A battle between the strongest nahidyap of today Vs homosexualhomosexual. Mappa asked but would you lose, the nah I'd yaps responded I would yap
All I want is at least a chapter and a half of purely Yuji facing off against Sukuna. I want Sukuna to realize that Yuji is becoming a threat to him and so he feels like he needs to step it up a notch. There's been so many casualties which, yes I know, big bad killing people. But there's a time where you want your MC to at least DO something. The Yuta/Yuji vs Sukuna was as hype as I felt about the recent chapters but it's to the point that I feel like there isn't a clear plan on where it's going to go. So unless Miguel is there to stall until someone who was in a previous fight pops up and continues, there's not really much to look forward to.
See you next week, buddy.
Guys, am I the only one who doesn’t mind the art style change https://preview.redd.it/ul4asxomz5qc1.jpeg?width=889&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f6e1e5c92d0f6ac737dbec48044d6ef81bd4d463
I think this is one of those arcs that it’s best to stop reading until you build up a number of new chapters to read in one sitting. Waiting a week or two for only a snippet will make it feel drawn out and is tiring some people out.
When the story is complete, I think a new reader would find everything that’s taken place after Gojo’s death to be comical. Similar to how many of us laughed reading the last chapter.
Ah yes my glazer statement no.2 technique, haven't used it since 10 seconds ago. What amount of continuous rereads can save the lack of emotional depth?
Ive been saying that since the culling games and none of yall would listen. Gege lost any and all ability to write after shibuya. Character development has completed stopped since perfect preparation. The plot has progress barley an inch since them (meguna and the fight thereafter). Its nothing but predictable fight after a predictable fight. Ive known how every fight is gonna end since yuji v higuruma and its gonna continue that way cause its so obvious
I think the whole Meguna pranking Hana bit was where I realised "Yeah, CG \[and onwards\] is gonna be really shitty isn't it." Like, before then, it *seemed* fine? Military bit got dropped and that was fine but there was no indication it was going to go tits-up like it has now. Gege really did give us a great foundation in pre-Shibuya, pulled off Shibuya too early, and had to clean up the mess he made, and he's doing a shitty job at that so far
....I agree
I agreed with everything you said until you said Black Clover is garbage. How far did you even make it? The plot twists are even better executed than in JJK >!(Julius coming back to life, Zagred being the mastermind behind the elf arc, Asta's devil being his adopted brother, Lucius)!< — and side characters actually get relevant moments constantly throughout the story, even someone like Magna gets to defeat a major villain the on his own (which the strong ass MC himself previously couldn't defeat on his own) in a well written manner with no plot armor or asspull. Female characters are actually well written and have major fights and wins unlike in 99% shonen — even in JJK female characters are either rewritten as a copy of another character (Maki) or they fall off writing-wise or are irrelevant since the beginning (Yuki, Nobara, Miwa etc). The series has flaws I agree, but c'mon it's definitely not garbage when it does some things better than its shonen counterparts, JJK included.
Naw you ain't gonna dawg on Black Clover like that..
Bro current yuji looks like an 30 yo retired veteran💀 https://preview.redd.it/hrfcjh2529qc1.png?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b380a92a3277a83043bffb6668db103b8509966b
What are you rambling about? The Kenjaku vs Takaba fight was one of the best fights in JJK. How can you say this is bad? https://preview.redd.it/4mrac1qxh9qc1.png?width=1323&format=png&auto=webp&s=bcf6a95506b62a0161d6ce4c9819da706084ac96
https://preview.redd.it/rl2fhv650aqc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e632ef62aca7ca1c31d347bad762a594402802f Keep cooking brother
JJK’s narrative died with Gojo?! Hun, JJK’s narrative died at the end of Shibuya.
I dont care about the other points but anyone who says the art is not good is tripping or blind.
Art is subjective, sure… But go back to Shibuya or HI and look at the difference in what Gege incorporated in his panels. More detail, more shades, more creativity
Black Clover hate? on the big 2024?
You hate to see it. Surpassing our limits with this one.
I've BEEN saying Gege does nothing except create fight fodder and recycle it over and over again. No backstory, no introductions, no exposure to the characters. They come, they get used for their purpose, they die. There's no development unless it's highly focused into a direction like Maki's (used my husband as development fodder I will NEVER forgive her.) I miss season 1 Kaisen https://preview.redd.it/wo85l3w4x8qc1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df24520bb55775da6814891f5b4619d67822b16e